The Mel Robbins Podcast3 Steps To Understanding Your Childhood TRIGGERS And How To Repair Them | The Mel Robbins Podcast
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105 min read · 20,589 words- 0:00 – 5:36
Intro
- MRMel Robbins
(ticking sound) (upbeat music) Dr. Becky.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Here we are.
- MRMel Robbins
This conversation is required listening, whether you have children or not, because this is not a parenting conversation. If you're listening to this, you have been a child.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Our triggers are stories from our past.
- MRMel Robbins
Everybody, did you hear that? Is it normal to not remember what your parents did when you were, like, emotional?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Your mind doesn't remember. Your body is acting out that memory every time your kid has a tantrum.
- MRMel Robbins
Wait, what? (upbeat music) Hey, it's Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today, we have one of those episodes that I would label required listening. What you're gonna learn in today's episode, after you meet the expert that I'm gonna talk to, wow, it's gonna make you a better person, because you're gonna get tools that will help you repair the kind of crap that went down in your childhood that you don't even realize is impacting you as an adult. Who do I have on the show today? None other than Dr. Becky Kennedy. Dr. Becky Kennedy is the brand new number one New York Times best-selling author of Good Inside. She says no matter what's going on in your life, there is good inside of you, and today, we are gonna give you the tools and the simple scripts to help you access it. Dr. Becky is a clinical psychologist with a PhD from Columbia. She is blowing up online. She was deemed the Millennial Parenting Whisperer by Time magazine. And here's the thing, this is not a conversation about parenting. This is a conversation for everybody, because even if you're not a parent right now, you were once a child, and you're about to learn how things that you don't even remember are impacting you as an adult, and keeping you stuck and unhappy. Well, today on the Mel Robbins podcast, we're gonna fix that with tools and advice that you need to create a better life. Let's get into it. Okay.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Dr. Becky.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Here we are.
- MRMel Robbins
Here we are. Congratulations.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Thank you.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. How you feeling?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I feel really energized. I really do. I love these ideas. I love hearing people's stories, and on the book tour, I've gotten to talk about ideas and hear people's stories, so it's been pretty fantastic.
- MRMel Robbins
Amazing. So I, uh, devour your content online, and I know that you're a parenting expert-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
But every single post, I get something as an adult, and there are two things that I get from every post that you have. One is that I, uh, see reasons why I feel the way that I feel as an adult, because you're talking about experiences that children have. Um, and then I also go, "Oh my God, I'm clearly fucking up my children right now." Or- and it's too late, 'cause they're 23, 22, and 17.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs) Well, I'm- I wanna jump in on that second point. So my, my biggest hope is that people, yes, see Good Inside kind of, yeah, as a initiation into a mode of parenting that is as much about self-development as it is about child development. And my second hope is that they see it as empowering, not, uh, anxiety inducing, like, "I messed up my kids." So we're gonna- we're gonna- we're gonna fix number two and get you- get you back to the empowering place.
- MRMel Robbins
Fantastic.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
So I wanna, uh, go to a particular part of your, uh, your number one New York Times best-selling book, Good Inside. Page one, you talk about how when you were in your clinical psychology PhD program at Columbia, you were doing play therapy with kids, but you were also counseling adult clients. And I read this sentence where you wrote, "I became fascinated by an undeniable connection. With the adults, it was so clear where in childhood, things went awry, where a child's needs weren't met or behaviors were a cry for help that was never answered." And what I wanna focus on with you today is how we can learn more about ourselves now that we're adults based on what you have come to understand as a clinical psychologist that is giving parenting advice to millions and millions of people around the world.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Well, thank you for that. And yeah, it was this really interesting set of years, and it continued after my PhD program in my practice where I'd see kids and then I'd see adults. And in the adults, the work really, you know, I think is rewiring work. So everyone came to my practice saying different things. They struggled with anxiety, or they were reactive, or they felt bad about themselves, they had imposter syndrome, they were depressed. Whatever the problem was was different, but I actually think everyone's core struggle was the same.
- MRMel Robbins
What is it?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Which is that I learned to adapt in my early years so I could thrive as much as possible in my earliest environment, and I created wiring that allowed me to do that, and that was incredibly crafty and important. And yet, the things that I wired early that were adaptive back then are now the things that are holding me back, but it's really hard to shift patterns that were put in place to protect me, so I'm stuck and can you help. Now, no one said that, but I think that's what actually what everyone's story said.
- MRMel Robbins
Now, when you say early-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... childhood years-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... what age are you talking about?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So, and- and this is whereas parents or non-parents listening, we can all take a deep breath and just remember a truth that I think is a really important double truth. The body,
- 5:36 – 6:51
The body and brain wires early, but it is never too late to rewire
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
the brain wires early, and it is never too late to rewire, so they're equally true.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, so hold on everybody. I wanna- I wanna stop and say something really important. This conversation is required listening whether you have children or not, because this is not a parenting conversation. If you're listening to this, you have been a child.And you were raised by somebody else, who was once a child. And what Dr. Becky is going to reveal today, and is going to also give you tools that are gonna empower you on this repair and this rewiring, is first we're gonna talk about how your experience as a child, maybe even before you have actual memories that relate to this, that your experience as a child has shaped who you are as an adult and in areas of your life where you feel out of control or you feel stuck. You are likely stuck in some wiring from your childhood. Is that right?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Uh, 100%. So if we jump into the specifics there, so what I- I'd ask everyone first to consider something that is both so obvious, but I always find it very powerful. Your body today is the exact same body you were born with.
- 6:51 – 11:12
Key Concept: The body you have today, is the one you were born with
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
- MRMel Robbins
Wait, what?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Right? Like, your body, my body has lived all of my experiences from the time I was a baby, right? We never get a new body. And so my experiences in my first-
- MRMel Robbins
Can I ask a question about that though first?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
'Cause don't you... 'cause I, like, have heard all this stuff, like, "Your cells regenerate every seven years." And-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Uh-huh.
- MRMel Robbins
... you know, I've grown obviously from a blob that laid around-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... when I was an infant to now a 5'8", 54-year-old adult. So what do you mean when you say your body right now is the same body that you had when you were born?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I think, yes, a lot of things have changed. Our house, uh, uh, like, it's a- it's our house. We live in it. And so the things that happened when we were three months, when we were nine months, when we were three, things that you just said, Mel, it's true. We don't remember when we use a very limited definition of memory. And I always find this interesting. We have a very limited understanding, colloquially, of memory that it's the things that I can tell someone happened to me.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
But the only things we can ever tell someone happened to me are the things that other people help me form a coherent story about. And so that's actually a pretty limited amount of memory, given that the hardest things in our childhood were probably the things we were left alone with and nobody helped us understand.
- MRMel Robbins
And we didn't even understand.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Exactly. We didn't understand because we need adults when we're young to make meaning out of all of our confusing experiences that our body registers.
- MRMel Robbins
Can I give you a specific-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Please.
- MRMel Robbins
... example that you might be able to help us unpack-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... as context for what you're talking about? So just last night, I was at LAX, and we we're gonna fly to New York City, right? And so we are sitting in the Delta Club lounge, whatever. If you have an American Express card, they're not sponsoring the show right now, but, you know-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... that's why I was in there. And I went up to the concierge lady to ask about the flight status, and a woman came running up, and she worked at the Delta Club, and she was shaking. And she said, "There is somebody screaming at a baby in the- in the bathroom. She's screaming at the baby, and the baby is so little." And I immediately tensed up, and the woman at the desk started to dismiss her. "Well, is- is the baby okay?" "I don't know, but you shouldn't talk to a baby like that. Why do you scream at a baby?" Scre- like, just s-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
The woman was in such distress-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... over what she had heard-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... from the tone of the mom screaming to the- to the, like, "Why would you be screaming at a nine-month-old so loud it's coming through a bathroom door?" And then she turned, and the mom kind of rushed back out to where her partner was and handed her partner to the baby and was... Handed the baby to the partner and was all flustered. And can you-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... in that moment explain what was probably getting absorbed by the baby, by the baby's mother, by the woman who heard it, by me hearing it-
- 11:12 – 15:37
How a child becomes dysregulated
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
how a baby's body ends up getting wired, what happens next is a baby will encode how their caregivers responded to them in that moment. So first comes distress. So their body learns, "Okay, I get distressed." As we all know, guess what? We all get distressed, that just happens. After distress comes more distress, and anger, and a threat to attachment, and fear. So now a baby wires fear and additional dysregulation next to their dysregulation. And again, let's say this was part of a larger pattern. And babies, yes, they pick up on kind of the message, "My parent is as scared of my overwhelmed state-"-as I am. When I get overwhelmed, I push people away. When I get overwhelmed, I overwhelm other people. When I get overwhelmed, my closest relationships actually become threatened, right? So if we fast-forward, and again, this is not one time-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
-many times, right? Here's what doesn't happen. A 30-year-old doesn't say, "I'm upset, and wow, I did get yelled at a couple of times when I was a baby in the Delta lounge, but that was then, and this is now, and I have a feeling my partner will respond differently, so I'm just gonna go to them and say I'm upset." No, because again, that was never even explained to them. There's no coherence. It's just a body's memory of when I get upset, I actually develop a warning sign, "Ooh, you better put that away. Oh, you're gonna threaten other people's attachment. This is gonna make it worse. It's gonna be a tornado. It's gonna be an abyss." And then maybe even have a partner who's like, "You sound like you're having an upsetting day." And they're like, "No, no, no. Nope, nope. All good. All good." And then probably, as we know, I acted out in some other way. I pull away, or I drink alcohol, or I do different things because what I've learned is I can't connect to other people with my distress. I don't expect the people who are close to me to help me get soothing. So, I better figure out what I can do now to shut down this experience to preserve feeling safe in the world.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. How the... Uh, I mean, I... There- there's so much to unpack here-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
There's-
- MRMel Robbins
... because you don't even remember experiences probably five and under, right?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Well, and this is, I think... This is one of the most empowering things to think about. We don't remember with our words and our stories, but we remember with our body. So let m- l- like, here... I always think about this couple. They saw me a while ago in my private practice, and it was the dad who actually sought, you know, kind of this parent coaching work. And he said, "Whenever my kid has a tantrum, like I know the things. I know it's normal. I know they have the feelings, they don't have the skills. I have to teach them the skills. It's not the feelings that are the problem, it's the lack of skills. I know the whole thing. But when my kid has a tantrum, I... Uh, that knowledge is just out the door. And I, I yell, I say awful things. I say things I promise myself I would never say as a parent." And so, one of the things I like to do when I'm working with parents is we can't just say, "Okay, try this," because you can only try a strategy if your body is in a grounded place to be able to access that strategy.
- MRMel Robbins
Is that why it's easy to talk about tools and therapy, but when you get into the situation where your kids are driving you crazy, you start screaming and you forget the strategies?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah, it's why so many parenting approaches I think kind of set parents up to feel bad, because they're like, "Try this, try this." That's great, and I always think if we learn those strategies, they kind of live behind a door. But if we aren't doing the work on ourselves to be able to be in the place to open that door, then they're (laughs) just locked behind the door, because we're triggered, right? So this dad, I, I remember saying to him, "Tell me a little bit how your parents responded to your tantrums and your big emotions as a kid." And he's like, "Wha- how y- I have no idea. I, h- I've, I have no memory of that." And I found this interesting because what I said to him, I go, "I know how your parents responded. It's interesting you say you've no memory. Your mind doesn't remember. Your body is acting out that memory every time your kid has a tantrum. Your body, the way it reacts to so harshly shut down my kid's tantrum." And he's like, "What's wrong with you? You're crazy. You're making a big deal out of nothing. You're being ridiculous. Why don't you act like your sister?" Like, he'd say all these things, and he's like, "I don't know how people responded to my big emotions." (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, Dr. Becky, I was just sitting here thinking, "I don't know how they responded."
- 15:37 – 20:03
Key Concept: Our triggers are stories from our past
- MRMel Robbins
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Our triggers are stories from our past.
- MRMel Robbins
Everybody, did you hear that?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I'm gonna say it again. Our triggers are stories from our past, acting themselves out in our present. And this is why when people say, "What about all the types of therapy that, like, don't really care about the past?" Or, "Why do we have to talk about our past?" I'm a pure pragmatist at heart. We have to talk about the past to understand it, so it doesn't take over the driver's seat in our present life. That stinks when your past lives itself out.
- MRMel Robbins
Can I ask another question? 'Cause-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Because I have heard a bazillion times, and I talk about it, I've studied it, about how the body keeps the score, the body remembers-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... you feel things before your thoughts can explain them. But the way that you just talked about memory, something clicked.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
And the fact that my lived experience is also that I don't remember, and I also have this hyperdrive Dr. Becky to go, "Oh, it was great." Yeah, I don't remember anybody yelling at me. I don't remember, like, anything like that at all.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And yet, the thing that I hate about myself as a parent is that when I get frustrated, I vomit on my kids.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
I just snap. And their moments of high stress cause me to be like, ƒah! Right at them. And then I quickly apologize. I quickly-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Amazing.
- MRMel Robbins
... am like, "I'm sorry." It's a b- it's not an excuse that I'm stressed out right now.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
But a- is it normal to not remember what your parents did when you were, like, emotional?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
100%. So, it's normal to not remember in this one version of memory that we all kind of accept as the whole truth, right? So, going back to our bodies. So, a kid gets yelled at, they're three. They get yelled at like we all know. Like, I... And by the way, I yell at my kids too, and I'm gonna yell at my kids later today. Like, we all do it, right? I'm stressed, it's not them. We don't respond to our kids. We respond to the circuit in our own body that gets activated when we witness things in our kids.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, everybody, I want you to hear that. You're not responding to your kids, or your dog-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... or your colleagues, or your spouse. You're responding to something in your body that gets activated...... in that situation.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Exactly. So my kids, let's say, with this dad, he's like, "Th- this kid is having a tantrum."
- MRMel Robbins
Uh-huh.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Right? And an example was, like, a classic four-year-old tantrum. Um, you know, I cut the grilled cheese in half instead of leaving it whole.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Or I cut it in half into triangles, instead of-
- MRMel Robbins
How dare you?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
You know, how dare you, you horrible parent, right? And- and by the way, for the kid, that's also a trigger moment for them. They obviously were filled up with frustration, and that was just the spillover point. But I see this thing in my kid. Then my body does this inside. "What do I know about overwhelming, kind of, extreme displays of emotion?" And my body kind of scans its circuits. And if I've learned in my own past, "Oh, no, no, no, no, no. That is so dangerous. That would get you sent to your room," which is fear of abandonment. "That would get you called a spoiled brat. That would get you those..." And I know this from doing it as a parent. "That would get you those dart eyes that just say everything we need to say as a parent."
- 20:03 – 23:28
Research: Internal Family Systems understanding your protector part
- MRMel Robbins
an adult now and your child is upset that you did not cut it, uh, the sandwich into fourths, in triangles, which I completely understand. We were sort of the, like, Sticks-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... with no crust at our house. How dare you do anything else?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
And your child starts to get overwhelmed and stressed. It then triggers this stored experience for you. So you are still in your 1976 body.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Are you now just repeating what you saw the adults do?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
In a way. So I'm extremely inspired by internal family systems-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... and Dick Schwartz way of understanding the mind and our body. And what he really explains so well is when we have an experience as a kid, and many, not one, where we essentially learn, "This part of me, the part that gets overwhelmed and doesn't yet have the skills to manage those overwhelm feelings, so they just explode out-"
- MRMel Robbins
Yup.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"... as a volcano," if that part is really what I would say is non-conducive with attachment, I don't get... It's not like I need my parent to say, "Tantrum away," but I don't get presence. I don't get compassion. I just get yelled at. I need to develop, okay, and stay with me here, a different part of myself that shuts down that part. So I literally develop a different part that's like, "Becky, you ungrateful kid. You are too much. Stop doing this." And that's actually called in IFS language a protector part. It sounds mean, but I think we all understand, like, its function early on is to protect me.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Because at least if I do that to myself and almost shame myself, at least then I don't get the wrath of my parent, or I don't get sent to my room. I don't get hit, or I don't get this awful punishment.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
And so it's helping me adapt, n- and so it's helping me shut down-
- MRMel Robbins
A part of you.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... a part of me. Now fast forward to 2022. What a trigger really is, and by the way, not only with our kids, with a partner, with anyone at work, is I think we see a part of someone that we had to learn to shut down harshly-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... in our self. And then that protector part in us, it really does, it comes to, like, the CEO seat of the board table. It's like, "I got this, guys." Like, "I got this," right? And then our kid or our coworker, they kind of become like a pawn in our game. We, we, we act out on them what we had to learn-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... to act on ourselves.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
And, and the most empowering shift, okay, is we often, when things trigger us, we look to shut down someone else and kind of make them more like us. "I would never have this explosive emotion," or, "I would never..." You know, with, like, a whine. Why is whining so triggering to me? It just represents, like, helplessness.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
And, "I grew up in a pull-up-your-bootstraps family, and I would never be a puddle-"
- MRMel Robbins
Big girl panties-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
... is my family, yeah.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Exactly. Then if you really want to work on your triggers, the question we have to ask ourselves is not, "How can I make this person like me," but, "What am I seeing in someone else that I need to be inspired by, that I need to actually grow that part in myself?"
- 23:28 – 29:03
HOW to repair and rewire emotional triggers
- MRMel Robbins
triggering us-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yup.
- MRMel Robbins
... become a moment to repair things or rewire things? Or what word would you use?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Great. Tha- both of those, right? So because th- the truth is with our trigger moments, we often think, "Yeah, I have to repair with my kid. I don't like that I yelled at them." But what you're onto, Mel, which is so true, is first we have to repair with ourselves.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
We have to do both, right? So probably my most popular workshop I do, shockingly, is called My Triggers Workshop. So it's, it's 75 minutes with, like, a whole step-by-step process, but I can get into some of it here. So the first step is in a calm moment-... kind of asking ourselves a version of, "What is my most generous interpretation of this trigger event in someone else?" We always come up with the least generous interpretation with a trigger. "My kid's pathetic. My kid's so helpless. My kid's so annoying with whining," right? It's easy to come up with this.
- MRMel Robbins
What about anxiety? 'Cause that's a big trigger for me, like my daughters... My son not so much anymore, but, um, our d- one of our daughters in particular is Little Mel, and there is intense coming at me. I am text, like 15 texts in a row when she's nervous about something, and then the second I answer the question, it's, "Wow, you're not right," and then hang up.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
And that is deeply triggering.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
To you?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So, is it the texts that are triggering? Is it the, "You're not helping me" that's triggering? Which is the worst part? Or the whole arc?
- MRMel Robbins
The whole arc of it-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
The whole, the who-
- MRMel Robbins
... is so, like, un... It's just like this... I feel like a punching bag almost.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah. So, I guess the question I would ask myself there is like, "Okay, so what's my most generous interpretation of what my daughter's doing?" Just so I can start to see my kid as a teammate, so we can be against this pattern together that doesn't work for either of us. Instead of me looking at my child like, "They are the enemy and they are the problem." So I think, for example, you might say to soften it-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, you know what just, what just got me there-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... is the word "enemy". Like, I feel like there was an experience as a kid that if I did something that upset my mom, I was the enemy.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes. Yes, and I think that's for so many of our trigger moments. Actually, we can be... When you ask yourself, "What's the most generous interpretation of someone's behavior?" I think this is the big framework shift that I think is the most important in any relationship where there's conflict, is we go from sitting across from someone and looking at them like they're the problem to sitting on the same side as the table as someone and looking together at the problem.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So I always think about that, or I try to. Like am I looking at my kid like they're the problem? Or can I reframe what's happening so I feel like it's me and my kid against a problem?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So can we be together against helpless whining? Versus, am I looking at my kid like a helpless, annoying kid who's just bothering me? Can I look at my kid, like, "Wow, something important is happening with anxiety and it's tricky to figure out. It's tricky for us to figure out something that's going to be helpful." Versus, "Does my kid come and vomit her anxiety and then reject me and that's just annoying?" I promise as long as we're in that second mindset, nothing's gonna be useful, just 'cause like we don't like our kid when we think about them that way. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
So true.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Right?
- MRMel Robbins
I, well, I love the reframe of bring them to your side of the table.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
What do you do if you're a kid that grew up with somebody who was wildly controlling? What you wore, how you dressed, "Go hug your uncle. No, you're doing sports."
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
What would I say to that kid?
- 29:03 – 30:19
Tantrums and meltdowns are explosions of desire
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
and meltdowns are explosions of desire. That's what they are. You want something badly and your parents, you know, and something gets in the way of having it. I wanted my grilled cheese cut in a way and what we so often do as a parent is we shut it down. We're like-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... "You're being ridiculous," but what a kid learns is my desire is unsafe. My desire. And I actually think about this a lot with, with... I, I have two boys and one daughter, I think about all of them but I think about it a lot with my daughter. How can I help her learn regulation skills while preserving access to desire? And I think that, yeah, desire in terms of asking for a raise, desire in terms of sex, desire in terms of am I allowed to want things for myself, right? That's what I think all of us adults are trying to like reclaim.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Right? Am I allowed to want things even when it makes someone else upset is another-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Right? And most of us, me too, early on learned to quote, "Be a good girl," which just means I have learned that I had to for my survival, to be adaptive, pay more attention to what others wanted of me than what I might want for myself.So, what's the process of reclaiming that? Like, yeah. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Can I ask one more question before we go into reclaiming? 'Cause this is a huge area.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes. Huge topic.
- MRMel Robbins
Because we're now also stepping into people-pleasing
- 30:19 – 36:03
People pleasing, perfectionism, overthinking as women
- MRMel Robbins
and stepping into perfectionism-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
All of it.
- MRMel Robbins
... and stepping into overthinking-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
... and questioning yourself-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
... and the inability to take risks.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And this is particularly true for women.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And this fear of being seen, and I see exactly what you're saying, that it is tied to a deep-seated belief that you don't deserve to be seen, or that you're- the stuff that you want doesn't matter.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Well, e- 'cause you're- you learned early on that whenever you were most in contact with your want, with your desires, it endangered your relationships.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you give us just a couple examples that really bring it home-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... for people that are like, "Wait, what are you talking-"
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So here's a great example, 'cause I also think we do this, like, black-and-white thing where like, oh, so I just let my kid have the tantrum, like we, we give ourselves buckets. So let's say you're in the toy store with your kid, I think this is a perfect example, and you're like, "We're just going to the store to get a birthday present for your cousin," okay?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. (laughs)
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Something like that, and you're like, "Okay, this is gonna go well," and then of course it doesn't go well. Your kid has a meltdown because they want the Lego set, and you don't- you don't want to get it for them, wasn't your plan. So when we say to our kid, "What is wrong with you? Like I told you we were here for your cousin. Can you ever focus on someone else?" My kid doesn't learn anything except wanting things for myself is bad and wrong, period. Now, the opposite isn't good either. "Oh, okay, I mean, I gue- I guess we'll get you that Lego set and that's okay." I mean, if you want to get the Lego set for your kid, obviously get the Lego set, but if your plan wasn't to get it and you didn't want to get it... Actually, that's another tricky message for your kid. A kid learns, my wants and needs are so overpowering to me, but wow, they just made my sturdy leader become not so sturdy and changed their mind.
- MRMel Robbins
Right. Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
That's actually also dangerous. Here's where the in between is, "Oh, it's so hard to be in a toy store and see all these fun things and not get anything." Of course you want that Lego, it's normal to want things. It's actually awesome that you know what you want, you know you want this Lego. Here's the thing, I can take a picture of it, there will be a time, whether it's Christmas or Hanukkah or your birthday that something's coming up, "We're not going to get it today, sweetie. It's just not one of those days where we're gonna buy you an extra thing. I know that's so hard." And so what my kid learns there is, my parent sees the want-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... under the meltdown. I didn't become a bad kid, I became a kid who's a good kid who wants something for myself, and that's just a hard thing to want something and not have it. I'm preserving access to my desire while I still have a very boundaried, sturdy leader.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. How do you, as an adult, reclaim that access to desire and repair this?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I think starting, and I think for anything we're trying to shift, it's actually hugely helpful to our circuits, to our body, to just start with, like, the things that I struggle with today, they were all adaptations. That's why I- that's actually why I don't like diagnoses as a psychologist, it's why I don't love the word symptoms. I think it's like kind of this cruel thing we do to people, that we're like, yeah, wow, you were really crafty as a kid and learned to adapt, and now we're gonna slam a- whack a label that, like, is pretty mean on you. Like, what's wrong with you?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
You know? And I do feel like there's something in our body that's like, "Hey, can you recognize (laughs) like, everything I did for you?" You know, like, okay, maybe I don't work for you anymore, but like, I need some credit, right? It's like anything else in life, right? You have to say to an employee at your table, like, "That's a great idea, we're gonna hold that for next quarter." Right? And if you only say to them, "No, no, no," they- they just get louder and louder. They want to be seen too. They don't necessarily need-
- MRMel Robbins
Or they shut down.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Or they shut down, and it comes out in another way.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So I think actually there's something to saying. There's not something, there's so much to saying. I have a phrase I always use for myself: thank you for your years of service. Like I- I think, you know, when I'm struggling with something, so if someone's now like, "Yeah, I have this time and I'm trying to, like, do stuff for myself and figure out what I want, and all that happens is I have a panic attack, it's so hard to know what I want." Just to put your hand on your heart and s- and even say to that feeling, like, "This must have been adaptive early on to actually not know what I want, and it's frustrating for me now, and still, like, I appreciate the way that you help keep me safe for probably 18 years."
- 36:03 – 41:23
Tool: How to locate/understand your triggers
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Because often what we do after we have a trigger is we blame ourselves. "I'm a horrible person," or if it's, "I messed up my kids forever. I'm an awful person. I'm a monster." So what we do-... is we actually repeat-
- MRMel Robbins
(exhales)
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... the pattern that got us there. We add aloneness and self-alienation-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... and self-blame, and that's actually the experience of shame. Shame used to be an adaptive emotion when we were kids. Shame stops us in our tracks from being in a part of ourselves that would've been met with distance.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So it's trying to help us out, but shame really does, it, it's a freeze state. So every time now we add on shame and blame, we add a frozenness, and most people I know who want to change are like, "Yeah, change isn't conducive with freeze. It's conducive with movement." You have to... So it's interesting. People say, especially after you yell at your kids or something, like, "Oh, but I feel like if I treat myself with compassion or something, I'm, like, letting myself off the hook." If you wanna let yourself off the hook for change, shame and blame yourself, because that will make it impossible to change. Impossible.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, it's interesting what you're saying about the fact that when you pile on-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... after you've been triggered, and you make yourself wrong for having this stored, memorized-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... adap- adaptive reaction, whether it's to withdraw or to yell or to blame or whatever, that when you said the piece about you're alone-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... I think this also contributes to why so many of us feel lonely and feel separate the older we get.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(exhales)
- MRMel Robbins
That we have spent so long, um, and it sounds like almost from childhood, adapting to situations that we didn't quite understand, and then we continue to do it and continue to do it and continue to do it, and so you feel like just isolated, you know, with yourself. But all we really want is love. Like, I know that your whole premise is we are all good inside. I believe the same is true. I always say, "First of all, anybody is capable of changing, and second, just assume good intent. Before you freaking pile on somebody, just assume good intent." Easier said than done.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
And about yourself, assume good intent, right?
- MRMel Robbins
That's probably the piece I missed.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
That's hard. Like, I didn't wanna yell at my kid. I didn't wanna yell at my daughter. Like, nobody... I don't know any parent who's like, "You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna eviscerate my child." (laughs) Like, no one wants to do that, and, and then it doesn't make it, quote, "okay" that you did it. But I always think we just ask the wrong questions. People are like, "So it's okay?" It's like, no, it's not okay or not okay. It happened. Now we just have a choice of if we wanna be effective in change, period. It's not about evaluating it as okay or not okay. The thing already happened. Like, is it okay that our car crashed? No one would say that. You're like, "Well, the car crashed." Okay, now what? Right? And yeah, I think assuming positive intent about ourselves actually leaves us on the hook for change because we can see we're a good person who did not a good thing, and then we actually have the energy to be curious, right? And I think that's where we change, when we're cur-... "Okay, so I yelled at my kid. Okay, something happened. My kid complained about the dinner I made." But I think a question we often have to ask ourselves about a trigger is not, "Where did the pathway end in a trigger?" but, "Where did that pathway start?" Right? (laughs) Like, do I have any time to myselves? Where do I practice meeting my own needs? Do I need more help at dinnertime, right? That, I can't wait 'til I get to the point and tell any human-
- MRMel Robbins
Well, let's just take this-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... 'cause we're, we're getting close to you needing to blaze-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... to go teach everybody about mom rage. Um, so let's just take this specific example-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and break down the tools.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Great.
- MRMel Robbins
Because I want everyone listening to be able to walk out of this not only empowered around what these emotional triggers are trying to teach you, but to also have a couple concrete steps to take today-
- 41:23 – 45:35
WHY we collapse behavior into identity
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
identity.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"I did a bad thing," becomes, "I'm a bad person."
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"My kid did a bad thing" means "I have a bad kid." And then we can't tolerate the thought that we have a bad kid 'cause it makes us feel like a bad parent, and then we act everything out, right? When you say to yourself, "I am a good parent who," and then you insert a behavior-
- MRMel Robbins
Let's do person. I'm a good person-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yes, perfect.
- MRMel Robbins
... since there's those of you that-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I'm a good-
- MRMel Robbins
... I'm a good per-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I'm a good person who yelled at my kid. I'm a good person who hasn't worked out for a week even though I told myself I'd work out daily, as an example. Okay? When you say, "I am a good person who," you reclaim your good identity-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... and can separate that from a behavior that frankly is probably just not in line with your own values. Like, if you wanna work out, it's just not in line with your values that you didn't work out. If you don't wanna yell at your kids, it's not in line with your own values that you did, and we miss that when we go into, "I'm a horrible human being. If anyone saw me, they would, you know-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... they would think I'm a monster."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So that is a really powerful sentence to practice every day, and you could practice it at night, looking back on a moment you weren't proud of.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"I'm a good person who-"... got mad at my partner when I was really stressed about my day. It actually allows you to repair with your partner, because you can only repair from a place of feeling like a good person. 'Cause if you're instead in bad person mode, as we know, all of our energy collapses into ourselves-
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... to be defensive, 'cause it's just too, uh, intolerable. So, I am a good person who... And if you do have kids, it is game changing to say that. "I have a good kid who's saying I hate you to me a lot." Okay. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, but they're still a good kid. "Why... Oh, why'd they say that? Why would I say that? That's interesting, because I have a shitty ki-... No, no, no, wait, I have a good kid. I have a good kid who's saying I hate you." We, we activate curiosity with that sentence.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
It's so powerful. So that's step one. Step two is what I call double repair. Repair is the single most important strategy to get good at as a human. I really, really would, you know, put my, put my signature on that. And if you think about what that means, is if you are supposed to practice getting good at repair, you have permission to keep doing the thing you need to repair for, 'cause the only way you can practice (laughs) repair is if you do that thing. So sure, take, I said it, you know? "Dr. Becky said I had to yell at you, honey, because I, I have to practice repair." It's gonna happen. So repair really allows us to add in all the elements to our own body and our kid's body that we're missing in the first place. 'Cause when you go back first to yourself, right? And let's say it's after that dinner incident, and you say, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm a good p- person who yelled at my kid. Okay, wait, I'm a good person who yelled at my kid. I didn't mess up my kid forever. I can do this." Right? You kind of reclaim that goodness.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
And then you can go to your kid and essentially say, or maybe it's your partner, "Hey," name the incident, right, "I yelled at you earlier." Number two, explicitly say, and this is important, "It's never your fault when I yell at you." Kids especially have to hear that, 'cause if we don't tell them something's not their fault, they wire self-blame just to gain control and safety in the situation. And we don't want one more generation of people who's wired with self-blame when they struggle.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"It's never your fault when I yell." And I know there's a part of everyone who's like, "But it kind of was their fault, and then they said..."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
You know, it's not. Again, we respond to our own body. Now, if you wanna say to them tomorrow, 24 hours at least later, "Hey, I wonder, you know, what we could do about dinner, if you could, you know, tell me the foods you like? Or, "I wonder what you could say to me if you don't like what I serve?" Because of course you're allowed to not like something, there's just a lot of ways of saying it. That's a separate conversation.
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- 45:35 – 53:23
Concept: The road to reactivity
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
road to reactivity. Like if the, if the last part of the road is yelling at my kids about dinner, right? That's the end of the road. As long as I'm on the road, I'm gonna go there. And actually the key is to wonder, what signs do I have that I'm starting that road? Because we often say, like people say to me, they're like, "Okay, so what am I supposed to do when, you know, no one helped me with this, and then I did this, and then my three kids did this, and then this happened. How do I not yell?" I'm like, "I have no idea." Okay? I just think we're, we have to upgrade your question. I think we have to upgrade your question.
- MRMel Robbins
What would the upgraded question be?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I think the upgraded question is when did I start down a pathway that ended in me feeling depleted and unworthy? When, once I get to depleted, un- unworthy, then of course my kid commenting-
- MRMel Robbins
All bets are off.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... about my food triggers every feeling I have. And maybe it starts, "Oh, you know what? I did tell myself I wasn't gonna commit to like any more PTA meetings, and I did sign up and I spent my whole day in this meeting I didn't wanna be in." Or, "I did tell myself I'm gonna sleep in one of the days this weekend."
- MRMel Robbins
"And I didn't do it."
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
"And I didn't do it," right?
- MRMel Robbins
So let me ask you this as a final question-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... 'cause I know so many of my listeners and your listeners struggle with this.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So that is beautiful, doable-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... actionable three-step advice when you do it to someone else. Let's say the issue that somebody starts to uncover is the fact that you're giving up on yourself.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And so let's say-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you are gonna make a commitment, that you're just going to promise to get up in the morning and you're gonna meditate, or you're gonna promise to get up in the morning and you're gonna go for a walk.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
And you continually don't keep the promise to yourself. What are the steps to not only repair that abandonment of self-
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
... but to also empower you to start keeping a promise to yourself?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
So I think what I'd say there is we wanna get curious about a part of ourself that clearly is kind of taking over the driver's seat. So right now if you're saying, "I really do wanna get up and take a walk in the morning," and, and I think this is an important step, say, is that really put from a place of shame and guilt or from a place of living in alignment with my values? If it's from shame and guilt, "Oh, I'm a horrible lazy person," yeah, no one ever motivates from that place. So I think we have to ask ourselves that question. If it's like, "No, like I just know it makes me feel better, like it really does, and yet I don't do it," okay, that's a good start. Then I think the next step is there's some part of me that activates in the morning and sends me some message that stops me from getting out of bed. And it's okay if I don't know what that voice is, but I'm just gonna start listening for it and being curious. And right now, if everyone even imagines this part, a key to behavior change is realizing that we have feelings or thoughts that are a part of us.... and not all of us, and they only-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
... become a problem when they take over all of us. So maybe it's even as simple as like, yeah, I wake up and there's a part of me that's like, "Oh, I'm so tired, I can't do this."
- MRMel Robbins
Were you in bed with me this morning?
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
I- I was, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- BKDr. Becky Kennedy
Um, so many, so many-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
Episode duration: 53:24
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