4 Signs of Emotionally Immature Parents & How to Heal

Mel Robbins 0:00 I went on to our Instagram account, where we have 8.5 million followers, and I put up a poll: "Are your parents emotionally immature?" 91% of people said yes.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 0:14 Wow.

Mel Robbins 0:16 This is an exercise on page 26 for assessing your parents' emotional immaturity. I want you to just listen. "My parents didn't express much empathy or emotional awareness. My parent was irritated by differences or different points of view. Even polite disagreement could make my parent very defensive." I was a very emotionally immature parent for a large part of my kids' life.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 0:41 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 0:41 And I can see the damage that it did, but I think as kids, you think (laughs) that there's something you can do to change this. And the fact is, you can't make somebody else emotionally mature. A person has to do that for themselves and they have to want to, because it's actually work. If somebody would love to start becoming more emotionally mature, what is one thing that you would want for them to do?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:09 I'm a, a big advocate for... (clock ticking)

Mel Robbins 1:14 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and before we jump into this extraordinary episode, I just wanna ask you, if you're loving this channel and you love The Mel Robbins Podcast, take a moment and subscribe. It's a great way to support me and the show, and it helps us bring you world-renowned experts. All right, you ready to jump in? Let's do this. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited that you are here. I am f- fired up about our conversation. I cannot wait to dig into this with you. It's always such an honor to spend time with you and to be together, and if you're a new listener, I just wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to The Mel Robbins Podcast family, and I'm glad that you made the time to listen to this particular episode, because here's what it tells me about you. It tells me that you're the type of person who values your time, and you're also interested in learning more about how your childhood experiences have impacted who you have become as an adult, and if somebody that you care about shared this with you. I want you to view this episode as an invitation to not only better understand yourself and improve your life, but also an invitation to discuss what you learned with the person who sent this to you, because if you do, it's gonna bring you even closer to them, and that's pretty cool. And if your parents sent this to you, it is an invitation to talk about a topic that is really hard to talk about in families, and that's the impact that your parents had on you. Look, it's easy to give them the credit. It's easy to talk about all the good stuff that happened, but nobody wants to talk about the things that weren't so great, that hurt, that were really confusing. And so, I'm gonna come right out and I'm gonna go first and I'm gonna say, I used to be an emotionally immature parent, and it took me far too long to recognize that my emotional outbursts, my inability to manage my emotions or my stress, my mood swings, that it had a negative impact on my kids. Look, I wish I had had the knowledge that you're about to gain today when I was in my 20s, both for myself and my own happiness, my own healing, and for my ability to be a more mature person in relationships. So today, here's what we're gonna do. You and I are gonna go there. We're gonna talk about this topic with the help of a world-renowned expert by the name of Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson. Dr. Gibson is a clinical psychologist and New York Times best-selling author with over 30 years of experience helping adult children heal from emotionally immature parents. Her work is truly life-changing. Dr. Gibson has helped millions of people around the world break free from the invisible emotional suffering that has held them back since childhood. She earned her Doctorate of Clinical Psychology from the Virginia Consortium Program. Her best-selling book is called Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents. It has sold over a million copies, and after we dig into her incredible research and the tools that she's gonna share with you today, you're gonna understand why her work is so life-changing. So please help me welcome Dr. Gibson to The Mel Robbins Podcast.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 4:20 Oh, thank you. It's a, it's a joy to be here, Mel, truly.

Mel Robbins 4:23 When we knew that you were coming on, I went onto our Instagram account, where we have 8.5 million followers, and I put up a poll: "Are your parents emotionally immature? Maybe your parent has big, intense reactions to things, like having outbursts, punishing you for having feelings, relying on you for adult emotional support, or maybe they're emotionally unavailable, never demonstrating affection and only offering criticism, prioritizing their needs over yours. Can you relate?" 91% of people said yes.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 5:01 Wow.

Mel Robbins 5:02 91% said yes, "My parents are emotionally immature." They could relate to a parent that has massive, intense reactions to things or are completely unavailable, and does that surprise you?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 5:19 It doesn't surprise me, uh, because it's one of the, the, the foremost reasons, I think, why people look for help and validation from, you know, from accounts and programs like yours, Mel, because they get so much validation from hearing somebody, you know, put into words things that they've been feeling that they've been told aren't really happening.

Mel Robbins 5:45 Hm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 5:46 And this doesn't have to escalate to the, to the degree of gaslighting. It just has to be that, you know, the emotionally immature person just doesn't see it. They don't perceive it that way, and so they can't validate the person.

Mel Robbins 5:59 Dr. Gibson, what does it mean to be emotionally mature?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 6:04 They can think about their b- own behavior conceptually a-...they remain objective, and they can also think objectively and still maintain a strong emotional connection with other people. So you've got a person who can handle their emotions, connect with other people, and think objectively.

Mel Robbins 6:30 Oh, that just put a giant yellow highlighter (laughs) on what it then means to be emotionally immature. You can't think objectively, you can't really handle your emotions, and you disconnect from other people.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 6:43 Yes.

Mel Robbins 6:43 Can you give

Mel Robbins 6:44 us a few examples of what emotional immaturity would look like, especially in a parent?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 6:49 Sure. Uh, let's say that a teenage daughter goes to her mother because she's just, um, you know, had her boyfriend break up with her, and she's distraught and she's telling her mom about what happened. And the mother says, "I know exactly what you're talking about. Your father does that to me all the time." And then the mother derails the conversation because of her egocentrism, okay, because of her poor empathy, and makes it all about her, because there is that kind of childish, ravenous hunger for being the most important person in the relationship at the moment. They didn't get their needs met when they were little, for whatever reason, and now they're going to collect on their own children.

Mel Robbins 7:41 Can you give me another example?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 7:43 Sure. Let's say that a, uh, a young man decides that he wants to go into writing or something in the creative arts, and maybe he has, you know, a lot of talent, but the parent hears this and it hits up against their goal that they have for what it would be to be a successful parent of a successful child, and that's something that they can't stand. And so, they might not come out and say that to the, to the young man, but they would, you know, make him start to feel bad about pursuing something that they didn't like, and they would start withholding approval for his, um, choices in order to get him on a path that would, again, align with their own egocentric view of, of who they want to be, which is the parent of a successful child, in their mind.

Mel Robbins 8:42 Is guilt trips around not being able to come home for the holidays or not being available to do something this weekend or not being available to drive you somewhere, is that an example of emotional immaturity too?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 8:54 Oh, that's a, that's a great example, thank you. Yes, because it's using emotional coercion. It's using force on the other person to make them comply with something that they don't wanna do, and they have told you that, and you are disregarding their right, uh, to have their own needs or their own opinions and you're saying, in effect, "My needs are more important than yours, and you are being a bad person because you are morally obligated to give me what I want."

Mel Robbins 9:31 What about trashing other family members, like complaining to you about, you know, your siblings? You know, you're, you're, you're on the phone with one of your parents and they always have to bring up a criticism of somebody else in the family.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 9:43 Great example, great example, because what that does is it creates a false sense of emotional intimacy when you triangle like that and you confide in somebody about a third party. That feels really good to the emotionally immature person, or the parent, because it's a way of kind of talking about deep stuff, but it's not intimate between you and the person you're talking to. It's sharing a secret about this third person. So it kind of hits a bunch of, um, uh, points simultaneously, but it's destructive to the relationship between, say, that child and that other family member, right?

Mel Robbins 10:30 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:30 Because you're talking behind their back.

Mel Robbins 10:31 And it's uncomfortable.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:32 And it's uncomfortable, right? You don't-

Mel Robbins 10:34 And then you don't know what to say-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:35 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 10:35 ...'cause then they're gonna er- erupt and get all huffy if you-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:37 They-

Mel Robbins 10:37 ...call 'em out on it.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:38 Exactly. Or they might even say, uh, this is an example, um, uh, of a, of a woman who actually confronted her mother and said, you know, "Don't talk to me about Aunt So-and-so because it ruins my relationship with her. I can't be close to her after you've told me all these things that she's done."

Mel Robbins 10:56 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 10:56 And the mother said, "I know that you've told me not to do this, but who else am I gonna talk to?" It's like, who cares? That's your problem.

Mel Robbins 11:06 "And so I'm just gonna keep on doing it."

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 11:08 "So I'm just gonna keep on doing it."

Mel Robbins 11:09 And, you know, that's one of the liberating things about your book, is you just keep coming back to this point, that the point isn't about shaming and blaming and all that stuff. It's about seeing the situation objectively and understanding this is who this person is, and expecting that this is gonna change magically on their own is setting you up for being frustrated in this dynamic. And recognizing that you're in the dynamic is actually what gives you power to change how you show up in it.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 11:35 Yeah, exactly.

Mel Robbins 11:36 Could you tell the person who is with us right now what they could experience in their life that could be different if they really take to heart everything that you are about to share with us and teach to us today?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 11:51 I really hope that when people listen to this, they'll come away from it feeling like, "Oh, I knew this all along. I just didn't know what to call it," or, "I, I knew I was right about that, but everybody was telling me that I was..."...off the mark, or crazy, or whatever. But this is what I experience. So, I, I hope that, um, that they will get that feeling of validation for their own experience, because we want people to be able to trust their own subjectivity-

Mel Robbins 12:27 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 12:27 ...and their own inner life, uh, because that's one of the things that's taken away when you have an emotionally immature parent. You could live your life with a sense of trust for yourself as somebody who is worth being taken care of and protecting.

Mel Robbins 12:45 And what might change for the person listening about their relationship with their parents, as we start unpacking this topic of being raised by an emotionally immature person?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 12:59 Yeah. It, it holds out the hope that you can be two adults together after all this time. You may not be able to change them, but you may be able to maintain your own sense of self and your own boundaries with them, adult to adult, in which both parties are, uh, just as important as the other. By doing this kind of work, um, within yourself, you have the option of creating a relationship after all this time where you can be you with your parent, and they can be allowed to deal with that themselves, which is the proper alignment of responsibility for emotional experience.

Mel Robbins 13:44 I think that's incredible, Dr. Gibson, and it actually reminded me of something that you wrote in your book, this is chapter two on page 24, that the mission is not to disrespect or betray your parents, but to finally see them objectively. And that this discussion that you and I are gonna have today gives you a deeper understanding of the reasons for the limitations of an emotionally immature parent. By viewing these and other aspects of your parents more dispassionately, you can understand things about yourself and your history that you might not have thought about before. My hope is that any new insights about your parent that you gain from this conversation result in you radically increasing your own self-awareness and emotional freedom. And one of the other things that you write about is that most signs of emotional immaturity are beyond a person's conscious control, and most emotionally immature parents have no awareness of how they've affected their children. We aren't trying to blame these parents, but to understand why they are the way they are, and that's how the insights that we're gonna gain from our conversation today will empower you to see this differently. And what I'm excited about, Dr. Gibson, in the opportunity to work with you, is that I do think that it's very difficult to look at your parents objectively. You either blame them or you excuse what happened. Why do we feel so much guilt, or why do a lot of us feel

Mel Robbins 15:29 guilt when we start to look at what we experienced in childhood and the emotional maturity of our parents?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 15:37 Yeah. Well, part of the reason why we feel guilt is because we've been blamed, okay? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:43 (laughs)

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 15:43 That's pretty basic, but... (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:44 Wait, what do you mean by that?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 15:46 What I mean is that if you have been blamed a lot or someone has told you that what you're saying or what you're thinking is wrong or it's morally bad, you take on an exaggerated sense of guilt about your own self-expression, okay?

Mel Robbins 16:05 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 16:05 And that, that is a profound impact on a person. And when somebody comes back and reflects to you that there's something wrong with you for having felt that, or having said that, and this is a person that you love and admire, that you look up to, your parent, you feel guilty because you don't want to hurt or embarrass somebody that you love, right? So, um, people have this sense of guilt, um, and it, it can really lean way too far over toward guilt and shame, the heavy self-criticism, because they've learned that that's the kind of feedback that they often get when they are just being themselves-

Mel Robbins 16:52 Right.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 16:53 ...because emotionally immature people are very, very sensitive. Now, they will accuse you of being over-sensitive, and they will say, you know, "Why does this bother you? Why are you getting so upset?" But they are, like, the most emotionally sensitive people on this planet. Um, and when you get that kind of feedback, you begin to feel like, "Well, maybe there's something wrong." And you, so when you pick up on those things, that's the first thing that comes to my mind is, where did you learn to think like that, that your first go-to thought is, "I'm doing something wrong. I didn't, you know... Oh, it's my fault. I didn't notice soon enough, you know, that this was going to offend you," or, "I didn't, I wasn't sensitive enough to your needs, and now you're mad at me and not speaking to me for three days." But why does your mind go to, "What did I do?" like that. And one of the things that, that maintains that is they do this thing where you feel a moral obligation to give them what they want, even at great cost to yourself, even to the extent that it may harm your health or your mental health.I've seen this with so many of my clients.

Mel Robbins 18:13 So, what I would love to do is have you describe for a person who has never even considered or given themselves permission to look openly at their own childhood or their own parenting, uh, through the lens of emotional immaturity, and if you'd, uh, Dr. Gibson, if you could explain the traits associated

Mel Robbins 18:38 with emotional immaturity so that we can just highlight it, whether it is your parent or you're starting to have the courage to look at your own behavior. What is, what is the behavior that you see that are the hallmarks of emotional immaturity in a parent in particular?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 18:57 Okay. Well, let's just start by saying overall, you might find them exhausting (laughs) . Dead giveaway (laughs) . Tiring, boring, um, because they, they tend to be quite superficial. They're very easily threatened. Um, their psychological defenses are not very sturdy, so they tend to keep things at a, at a kind of a superficial level as like, the how is the weather sort of thing, or you know, what is, uh, you know, Aunt so-and-so doing lately, because that's where they feel safe.

Mel Robbins 19:37 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 19:37 Because emotional genuineness, emotional depth makes them very uneasy, and I'm not talking about a little bit nervous. I'm talking about destabilizing. You know, people keep trying to talk to their parent, um, and get them to understand how they're feeling. Well, this is like asking an emotionally immature parent to keep their hand on a hot stove. They cannot do it. It's not because they are bad or they don't want to help their child. It's because it is so painfully destabilizing that they can't stand it, okay? And that's something that I try to get across so that the person doesn't take it so personally.

Mel Robbins 20:28 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 20:29 You know, that, that they, maybe they would if they could, but they can't, okay? They're gonna change the subject. They're gonna put it back on you. They're gonna give excuses. They're gonna not understand what the heck you're talking about. That difficulty in going into any kind of complexity or depth is something that ends up making people feel, you know, kind of bored, exhausted, and also because there's a constant expectation that you're going to be a certain way for them. So, you're gonna agree with them. You're going to, um, uh, see things the same way as they do, and that is very tiring because you're always feeling like you're having to play this role if you're gonna get along with them. All of this comes from their egocentrism, meaning all roads lead to them.

Mel Robbins 21:25 You have so many helpful quizzes in the book, and I wanna read some of them because I think that these questions, if you're somebody who's never considered this in yourself or in your parent or in your own experience, it's liberating to have somebody say, "Oh, no, no, no. Th- this is not behavior to excuse away. I realize you lived with it your entire childhood and your entire adult life with your parents, but this is not what you were supposed to get. You were supposed to be seen, and you're supposed to feel safe, and you're supposed to have your emotions validated." And some of the things on your list, this is an exercise on page 26 for assessing your parents' emotional immaturity. I want you to just listen to the work of Dr. Gibson. So here's a question. "My parents often overreacted to relatively minor things. My parents didn't express much empathy or emotional awareness. When it came to emotional closeness and feelings, my parents seemed uncomfortable. They didn't go there. My parent was irritated by differences or different points of view. When I was growing up, my parent would use me as a confidant, but wasn't a confidant for me. My parent often said and did things without thinking about people's feelings. I didn't get much attention or sympathy from my parent, except for maybe when I was sick. My parent was inconsistent. Sometimes wise, sometimes unreasonable. If they became upset, my parent either said something superficial or unhelpful or got angry and sarcastic. Conversations mostly centered on my parents' interests. Even polite disagreement could make my parent very defensive. It was deflating to tell my parent about my successes because it just didn't seem to matter. Facts and logic were no match for my parent's opinions. My parent wasn't self-reflective, rarely looked at his or her role in any problem, and my parent tended to be a black-and-white thinker and unreceptive to new ideas." And, you know, certainly as I read that list, I can see, check, check, check for myself. I think I was a very emotionally immature parent for a large part of my kids' life.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 23:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 23:38 And I can see the damage that it did. What do you want the person listening as they're sitting there going, "Oh, wow, never thought about it this way," what do you want the person who may be hearing this and feeling validated for the first time ever to know about the experience of being raised by an emotionally immature parent?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 24:02 Yeah. I would want them to know that it's going to have an effect on them whether they've ever heard of this or not. Uh, because if we're treated like we are insignificant or that we're not real inside-We feel that. It's- it's like if somebody steps on your foot, you feel that. We do the same thing emotionally. When people, uh, disregard us or, um, treat us like we're not important, uh, that has an effect on us.

Mel Robbins 24:36 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 24:36 And because, you know, such a huge amount of our learning is unconscious-

Mel Robbins 24:41 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 24:42 ... in childhood, we carry it forward, um, and then we take it as, uh, you know, what we've learned and it's a part of us and we give it to our children.

Mel Robbins 24:53 One of the things that I found as I was reading your book and as the team here at one-four-three Studios and I were just poring over your work, is just how validating everything that you write is. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna read just a little bit more. "Emotionally immature parents can have devastating impacts on their children's self-esteem and relationships in adulthood. And while the effects can range from mild to severe, depending on the parents' level of immaturity, the net effect is the same. The children feel emotionally unseen and lonely, and this erodes their sense of their own lovability and can lead to excessive caution about emotional intimacy with other people." I think it would be very helpful to walk

Mel Robbins 25:36 through the four types of emotionally immature parents because based on your research and your clinical practice, you have, uh, four very helpful buckets that help you see your parents objectively through the lens of these different buckets that emotionally immature parents can fall into, and I'll- I'll read them to you. This is on page 70 of your book. There are emotional parents who are run by their feelings, there are driven parents who are compulsively goal-oriented and super busy, there are passive parents who are just kinda checked out, and then there are rejecting parents that engage in behaviors that make you wonder why they have you in the family in the first place. And so, I'd love to have you unpack them one by one. What is the emotional parent that's run by their feelings? What is that parent like to be around?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 26:34 Yeah. That- that's the parent that- that emotionally rules the roost with their moods, with their reactions. Everybody orbits them. Um, that's, uh, you know, when dad comes home, everybody be quiet, dad needs to relax. Um, mom's having a bad day, don't anybody upset her. Uh, mom's gone to bed for the week, uh, you know, nobody make any noise. Everything is geared toward helping that parent regulate their emotional state through controlling your behavior, suppressing yourself, inhibiting yourself. Everything ends up being in the service of helping that parent feel calmer or feel better. So, I call it the emotional parent because, you know, they tend to be very emotional and they can be, I mean, some of them can be extremely volatile, some of them can be violent. Uh, some of them can be even mentally ill, okay? But the emotional parent will make you feel like, you know, like, you gotta be vigilant. You gotta be checking every second, uh, how they're doing, taking- taking their temperature, so to speak. And the whole family does this. And often, the other parent colludes with this by being sort of the supporter and talking to the children as though it's the children's responsibility to make sure that mom or dad is staying calm.

Mel Robbins 28:13 Whose responsibility is it that mom or dad stay calm?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 28:16 It's the emotional parent's responsibility. We all have the responsibility of managing our own emotions. That's how I look at it.

Mel Robbins 28:25 Same.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 28:26 But lots of times, emotional parents, like, run right over their mate and end up with a, one of the passive parents that we'll talk about in a minute, uh, as someone who just doesn't protect the children from them.

Mel Robbins 28:40 How does being raised by this type of emotional immaturity in a parent, so you've got the erupter, you've got somebody whose mood dictates the house, how does that impact your development as the child and the types of patterns that you're struggling with in your adult relationships?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 28:59 You become very vigilant to how the other person is doing, so everything revolves around the feeling state of the other person. Uh, you will be very alert (laughs) , very vigilant, very tired (laughs) because you're always having to guess at what could upset them. You're always having to kind of keep them on an even keel. And, you know, if you live with someone, you know how to do this. You know when they need a little boost, you need, you know when not to bring the thing up, uh, that you need to talk to them about. So, it- it- it has a, um, it really does flow downstream so that in your dating relationships or your- your committed relationships, you're gonna just assume that they need a lot of help dealing with their emotions, even if they don't.

Mel Robbins 29:56 Or you're probably gonna be hyperreading every mood and every action for cues as to whether or not they like you or you're okay or things are going okay.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 30:06 Yes. Yes.

Mel Robbins 30:06 Like, that hyper vigilance and that sense that something is going wrong or could go wrong or that you're somehow gonna be to blame. Like, I think that i- it sounds like is something that gets conditioned into you.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 30:19 Yes. And- and the- and the, um, you know, the feeling is, did I do something wrong?

Mel Robbins 30:25 Yes.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 30:25 Or have I been bad?

Mel Robbins 30:26 Yes.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 30:27 Okay? That, that is, um, that gets conditioned in there in a, in a very deep way with parents like that.

Mel Robbins 30:36 Talk to us about the driven parents.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 30:38 Yeah, the driven parent is, in many ways, one of the most, um, uh, popular versions of, uh, parenthood at least l- at least in our driven culture, right? (laughs) You know, where things are so materialistic and so, uh, measured in terms of success, the metrics of success. These parents look like paragons of parenting, and we can compare ourselves to them because, "Oh my gosh, we didn't, we didn't get our kid onto the right softball team," or, "They're not on travel soccer," or, you know, "This other parent did the, you know, the intensive language thing, you know, in preschool that we missed." And they're very on it in terms of, "What can we do to maximize our potential in terms of success?"

Mel Robbins 31:32 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 31:32 Not in terms of heart stuff, not in terms of creativity or what... It's like, "Where can it take us?" It's very goal-driven.

Mel Robbins 31:42 Wait. So you're talking about the kind of parent that is driving their kids to get into the Ivy League and driving their kids to get into the, you know, division this and the sports that and, like, we, 'cause you just said we.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 31:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 31:59 So, the driven isn't that they're climbing a la- the corporate ladder or just completely goal-oriented in their own life. It's that they're goal-oriented and driven in terms of micromanaging what their kids are doing because it's an extension of them?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 32:14 Exactly. It's the extension of them. It's an enmeshment.

Mel Robbins 32:17 That's a sign of emotional immaturity?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 32:20 It can be. We have to l- the, the proof is in the pudding. Like, how does that affect the kid? It, d- does it dovetail with the kid in such a way that everybody's happy? Um, but I submit that, uh, nobody likes being treated like, eh, an object or like somebody's success object. I mean, uh, or having expectations put on you for what y- where, where you need to measure up to in order for Mom or Dad to be really proud of you-

Mel Robbins 32:50 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 32:50 ... or happy with you.

Mel Robbins 32:51 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 32:52 But I do, I do wanna say one thing about this though. It's not only, uh, the kind of, eh, th- success that would be, like, intellectual success, monetary success. I mean, tho- those are, you know, like, winning, scoring the goal, uh, winning the game, that kinda thing. We're very familiar with that. But sometimes that drivenness can be channeled into things like, uh, your religious beliefs or your social behavior or being the, uh, quote-unquote normal family on the block. What will the neighbors say? I mean, it doesn't have to be, um, when I say driven, a lot of these parents do do things, like they get, you know, like advanced degrees or they are on their kids about getting into, you know, certain colleges. But they can also be on their children about sort of perfecting their social role or their place in the church or, you know, it could be anything. It just has that quality of driving toward a goal.

Mel Robbins 33:58 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 33:58 And, whoops, like, too bad that that isn't what you wanna do or too bad that it's making you anxious and depressed, because you will be happier and things will go better for you in your life if you just believe me and do what I say so we get there. It's all about the getting there.

Mel Robbins 34:15 And then there's the punishment if you don't, emotionally.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 34:18 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:18 The guilt, the shame.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 34:20 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:21 The questioning. The withdrawal of love. How does this impact a person in terms of the things they struggle with as an adult if they're raised by somebody like this?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 34:31 Oh, you're never good enough. Uh, perfectionism. Procrastination in response to the perfectionism. The feeling like, "I can't sit down and read a book or someone's gonna call me lazy." Uh, I, uh, you know, they'll talk about their relaxing day as if they did something, uh, naughty to their friends. "Oh, I didn't do anything. All day I just sat there with my nose in the book. I was, I was really bad today." Uh, there, there's that kind of judgment put on just being, just existing as a happy living thing on this p- on this planet.

Mel Robbins 35:07 Hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 35:08 It, it's, it's tragic because we, we're not made, no, no animal (laughs) is made to be pushed to the point where they're performing all the time. It's not healthy. And yet, that's the kind of feeling that, that people get when they grow up under this.

Mel Robbins 35:27 Dr. Gibson, can you describe what a passive parent is?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 35:33 Yeah, the passive parent is usually the one that kids really like the best. Um-

Mel Robbins 35:38 (laughs) This is my husband.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 35:39 (laughs) They, they, they are favorites of the kids, and they're often very attuned to the children. Um, they can be playful. They can be almost like, um, uh, peers or playmates. Not, not, I don't mean to say that they are, um, irresponsible in that way. But they just tend to live and let live. Uh, and because they don't have that motor driving them, they can be more accessible to the child. Oftentimes, they are more empathic than the other emotionally immature parent. Like, uh, I had a client whose father would always come to her room after the mother had exploded at her, you know? You know, sometime later, Dad would come down, sit on the bed with her, console her or whatever. Would Dad step in when she was being abused? No.No, that's the passive part. They're not protective of the child. They let the other parent get away with murder, um, because in a way they're like children who are benefiting from the other p- parent's energy and the other parent's sort of willingness to dominate the, the course of things. And they, you know, they live and let live. But if you do that with your children who are not being treated well, you are not feeling the empathy, and you're being really quite egocentric because it feels better to you to not take on that level of involvement.

Mel Robbins 37:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 37:18 And that's, that's for their benefit, not for their children.

Mel Robbins 37:22 And how does that impact you when you become an adult if you have had a parent that, that is that type of emotionally immature parent, that they're just passive?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 37:32 Yeah, well, for one thing, you don't feel like you are worthy of protection. Um, you feel like, uh, putting up with these things in life and relationships is just, you know, part of having a relationship, is just part of life, because that's the way the passive parent, uh, demonstrated, um, how to deal with this outrageous behavior.

Mel Robbins 37:56 Yeah.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 37:56 They just kinda went along with it. So, the child learns from the passive parents, like, "Uh," you know, like, "What can you do?" That expression, "What can you do?" Uh, they let it go and they learn not to stand up to it or to put boundaries on it.

Mel Robbins 38:11 Let's talk about the fourth type of emotionally immature parent, which is the rejecting parent.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 38:16 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 38:16 Can you describe what that type of person's like?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 38:19 Yes. Um, uh, I had a client who said it very well once. She said that when her dad came home, she was always so excited. She, and she would run to greet him, and she said, "It was always like I was throwing myself against a closed door."

Mel Robbins 38:34 Hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 38:35 All he wanted to do was get in the house, read the paper, uh, didn't wanna be bothered. The rejecting parent acts as though kids are a nuisance, a bother, and they never wanted them in the first place. So, when you're the child of that kind of parent, you learn that the best possible relationship with that parent is achieved through not bothering them, maybe through serving them if you can find a way in, maybe going along with them on things that they like to do. But it's n- not a relationship in which you're going to be allowed to have, sort of, equal status or even take up as much room as that rejecting parent, because you're intruding. You always feel like you're intruding on their energies and interest.

Mel Robbins 39:29 You know, I have a feeling that the person that's with us right now is listening to you and hanging onto every word and going, "Dr. Gibson, how were you in my house growing up? How do you know all this stuff that I went through?" Can you tell the person listening how just recognizing that you have had this experience of being raised by an emotionally immature parent may have impacted their emotional development, and what you want them to know?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 39:59 One of the things that, that is going to happen as a result of growing up in this kind of household is that you're probably going to end up feeling very unsure of yourself, and there'll be sort of an underlying sense of insecurity that doesn't match the outside. Yeah, so, so you, you end up feeling, um, like, uh, you're too much or, uh, you need to be thinking of other people, uh, overly much. But it, it's really interesting that they will often feel very selfish. That's-

Mel Robbins 40:41 Hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 40:41 That's a word that they'll use. Like you, when you said earlier, "Oh, I can't do that," or, "How can I..." It's because they feel like they're being selfish. And that sense of, uh, "I overwhelm people with my needs. I'm too needy," uh, "I should be able to handle everything on my own," that's a very common kind of, uh, thing that is carried over into future relationships. Another thing that happens is that people will doubt their ability to communicate.

Mel Robbins 41:13 Hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 41:14 They will feel like, "I just can't make myself understood." People who have emotionally immature parents have the experience of trying to communicate, and that emotionally immature parent is not interested in what they're saying. So, when you're trying to tell somebody something that's important to you and you're trying to communicate it to them and they're looking at you like you have two heads and they are not processing what you're saying,

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 41:47 the problem is not your problem with communication. It's their problem with being willing to process what you're telling them. If a person really wants to understand you, it doesn't matter how you say it. And if somebody doesn't wanna understand you, it doesn't matter how you say it. So, people get a very distorted idea about whether they make sense or not. They feel like they don't make sense because the emotionally immature person is not invested in trying to understand them. They're invested in getting off the hot seat as quickly as possible.

Mel Robbins 42:34 Which is why they erupt or they dismiss.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 42:37 Yes.

Mel Robbins 42:37 Or they get, like, defensive, or they-...put it back on you, or, "I don't wanna talk about it."

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 42:44 Right.

Mel Robbins 42:44 And then that trains you to, like, walk on eggshells and use a different tone of voice and worry about whether or not this is the right time or kind of couch it in a certain way in order to manage somebody's emotional immaturity, and that just leaves you feeling like you're the problem.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 43:02 Exactly, and you also, uh, identify the wrong problem. You think that you need to learn better communication skills. Uh, that's not the problem because of what I just said. If someone wants to understand you, they will knock themselves out trying to understand you.

Mel Robbins 43:21 So, is the problem that your work helps us highlight is recognizing when you're dealing with somebody who's emotionally immature?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 43:30 Yes. And one of the most telltale, uh, qualities of that is when you experience what a, what a, um, a colleague of mine, uh, Jenny Walters, she's a, a coach out in the West Coast, calls brain scramble. So, you get around people who are emotionally immature, and you're trying to explain yourself or you're trying to communicate, and all of a sudden, it's like, "I don't feel like I'm making any sense. I don't... I can't find the right words. I start to say it, and then I can't remember what I was gonna say." It... Brain scramble. Because when we're talking, the other person's responsiveness actually helps our brain organize itself and stay on a track of thought because communication is not only intellectual and verbal, it's emotional. The whole time we're talking, right, our hearts are going, "Mm, is there a connection there?" Our right hemisphere of our brain is saying, "Is there resonance? Are we on the same wavelength?" That, that's being assessed the whole time we're yammering away with our words. If that's not there, it is an incredibly unsafe experience. You're getting a contradictory signal. They're looking at you, they appear to be listening, but they're not processing it, and then it's like, whoa, the mismatch really pulls you off your, off your game. You, really pulls you away from the point that you're trying to make. And then it's like you can't remember even what you're trying to do.

Mel Robbins 45:10 I actually love that you just said mismatch, and I love this brain scramble because I feel like one of the most important things about your work is giving words to a extraordinarily common experience. If 91% of people, of 8.5 million followers that we polled, asked, you know, or, "Were you raised by somebody who was emotionally immature?" You'll say, "Yes, this rings true," that experience of I'm trying to connect and communicate with you, and then all of a sudden, the person's mood shifts, or their body language turns hostile, or their facial expression just looks blank and rejecting, there is a complete mismatch, and you do start to scramble in your mind because the signaling from the other person is very clearly, "Shut up. I'm not interested. You're annoying me. I don't care about this." And you can pick up on it immediately.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 46:04 Absolutely.

Mel Robbins 46:05 And it is true. You start to think, "I'm the problem." And I love that you just said, "No, no, no, no, that's the wrong problem." It's not how you're communicating. It's that you're trying to communicate with somebody who is either too emotionally immature to be able to communicate like a mature person, or that has no interest in communicating with you, and that's an important thing to understand because from the very beginning, you've been saying, "This isn't about blaming anybody." It's about seeing the situation objectively so you can change how you show up in this relationship and what you expect of this person. Because I think, you know, if I'm speaking from my own experience, whether it's the child-parent relationship, or it's me as a parent to my child and being able to look and see at how my own emotional immaturity, being overly emotional, big erupter. I'm sure my kids would tell you that they never knew what kinda mood I was gonna be in when I woke up. My husband, definitely. We are the classic, "I'm the emotional one. He's the passive one." You know, I'm the one that is probably a little bit scarier, or at least I used to be until I started working on myself and developing the skill of emotional maturity, but I think as kids, you think (laughs) that there's something you can do to change this, and the fact is, n- you can't make somebody else emotionally mature. A person has to do that for themselves, and they have to want to because it's actually work to f- to want to learn about your emotions and learn how to process them, and I found a part of your book so fascinating, Dr. Gibson. It's on page 84. You talk all about this thing called healing fantasies-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 47:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 47:50 ...and how these healing fantasies that we have about our parents, in particular, that you've noticed that one thing that all children who have been raised by emotionally immature parents, which, you know, you also say that means they've been emotionally deprived children, one thing they have in common is they come up with a fantasy about how they are going to eventually get what they need. And as you're listening to Dr. Gibson, this might absolutely just hit you like a sledgehammer, that children often think the cure for their childhood pain and emotional loneliness lies in finding a way to change themselves and other people into something other than who they really are. Healing fantasies have one theme, if only.People may think they'd be loved if only they were more selfless or more attractive, or they may think that their life would be healed if only they became more famous or rich, that there are all these things we make up in our mind that help us get through these situations where we're not getting our needs met, but the problem is they affect us as adults. So, Dr. Gibson, can you unpack what a healing fantasy is?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 49:08 It's the idea that the parent does change, and does develop empathy, and does stop sort of distorting and dismissing realities that they don't like-

Mel Robbins 49:20 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 49:21 ... and starts to be willing to listen to how it- it- it has been for the child. The fantasy is that the parent will be capable of doing that at some point, you know, maybe when they get older, maybe when they don't have so much stress, um, "Maybe when I have children, as grandma, they will do this," or, you know, whatever. And so, we might say, "Well, you know, where do they get this from?" Like, "Why- what would make them think that?" Well, it's because sometimes emotionally immature parents can do better and do do better. They can be fun. They can be loving. They can be available. They're especially good if you're hurt, sick, need something, you know, some material thing. Um, they can be really Johnny on the spot with that stuff, but it's the emotional, um, comforting and the emotional validation that they have trouble with.

Mel Robbins 50:20 Well, the way that I look at it is this way, and tell me if this feels like a good way to think about it, because I think it's very confronting when you start to look at your parents objectively, and you feel bad, and you feel a lot of grief, and it's also very validating to be able to see behavior that was a complete mismatch for what you needed and to understand that oftentimes, you know, according to your work, Dr. Gibson, that the immature- the emotionally immature person does not even realize that this is what they're doing and this is the impact it's having on you. The more work I've done on myself, the more that I realize this isn't about always being emotionally mature, because there are gonna be times where you're exhausted and life is testing you or your child is, frankly, so fricking trying and annoying and taxing that you're gonna freaking scream at them. Like, "Just do what I'm saying." (laughs) It's the ability to calm yourself down and repair what just happened-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 51:22 Right.

Mel Robbins 51:22 ... that, in my mind, is the sign of an emotionally mature person, the awareness that the eruption happened or the withdraw happened or the dismissing happened or you didn't show up in a way that maybe was as supportive as you would've liked, and to be able to talk about it in a way where you can take ownership for your side of it and actually be genuinely interested in making sure the other person's okay and that that relationship and that safety's repaired. That, to me, is the thing that feels like the hallmark of somebody who's emotionally mature versus somebody who's not.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 52:03 Yes, because you've got the self-reflection going on.

Mel Robbins 52:07 Yes.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 52:07 You- you have the- the em- and you have the empathy going on, because, you know, when we lose our cool or we- we have, um, you know, been too egocentric with our kids or whatever it is, it hurts us. We realize it almost immediately. We feel that altruistic need to go back in and repair it.

Mel Robbins 52:29 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 52:30 And that's- I mean, that is a, uh, huge part of being adequately emotionally mature.

Mel Robbins 52:38 You know, I think that there's a lot of people that are gonna s- listen to this and actually share this with their adult children as a way to open up a conversation-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 52:45 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:46 ... about apologizing, because-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 52:48 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:48 ... as blunt as I am about the things that I regret and as much as I can own the fact that when I was a young parent and my kids were younger, I was emotionally immature and very overwhelmed by my life and very overwhelmed by past issues of trauma that I had never dealt with and things just going on in my life that I took out on them that they didn't deserve. And I can speak very black and white about it, but I would give anything to go back in time and to change the parent that I was and be better for them. But being able to apologize and to see it in myself has been this enormous gift in my relationship with my kids and bringing us even closer in our relationship. And so, I don't think it's ever too late to apologize for the things that you didn't know about yourself, and I would imagine you have much more experience with this than me, that I would think a lot of people are very receptive to that apology if it's coming from a very earnest place and you're also working on changing how you show up now.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 53:56 Yeah, all you have to do is imagine what it would be like for your parent to come to you and say, "Honey, I am so sorry. I was so young. I was so green. I was so, uh, involved in this other thing, I- I didn't even know at the time what I was doing."

Mel Robbins 54:16 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 54:17 I mean, we don't have to, um... You- you don't even have to be a parent to imagine what that would feel like coming from anybody, anybody who says, "You know, I've been thinking about how I treated you." (laughs) I mean, is that not the most precious, uh, unexpected gift that a person can get? It makes you feel so seen, and it also solidifies...... the bond between you. And that's what the healing fantasy is. It's almost like the deathbed fantasy, like, you know, "Sweetheart, I am so sorry for everything I did, and now I see the light." That's, that's the hope.

Mel Robbins 55:03 Right.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:03 But, you know, children have to have that hope. They have to create that potential in their parent in order to keep adequate hope to keep growing and keep going on.

Mel Robbins 55:15 But how does that hope and the healing fantasy actually get in the way of you healing?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:20 It gets in the way of your healing because it is essentially a kind of reality distortion.

Mel Robbins 55:28 Mm. That you're expecting the emotionally immature person to suddenly be mature-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:32 Yes.

Mel Robbins 55:32 ... and rescue you from this dysfunction-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:34 Yes, exactly.

Mel Robbins 55:35 ... when the only person that's gonna rescue you is you seeing it objectively-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:39 Yes.

Mel Robbins 55:39 ... and recognizing that you have to rescue yourself from it-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:43 Yes.

Mel Robbins 55:43 ... by seeing who you're dealing with.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:45 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 55:46 You know, in your book, you talk a lot about this hidden grief.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 55:49 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 55:49 That, you know, when you really embrace the reality that you were raised by somebody who's emotionally immature, there's a lot of grief that you feel about the fact that there is this massive mismatch between what you needed and what you actually got. Can you tell us why grief is such a common experience that people feel when they recognize that they are the child of an emotionally immature parent?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 56:17 It's because it's such a sad thing. You know, when, when you realize what you didn't get that you really needed, and you begin to feel empathy for yourself, you then feel grief or loss over what you didn't get. The problem is that lots of times, people have been talked out

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 56:42 of their self-empathy. They've been trained not to take seriously how they feel or how they react. Once we notice the reality of what has happened to us, the grief will help solidify this new understanding or this new reality of what we grew up in, which will give us a solid sense of, um, uh, security. Okay? 'Cause now we got something to put our feet on. We understand that. And the grief comes in when we realize what that did to us-

Mel Robbins 57:18 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 57:19 What that did to the child we were, and how impossible it was for us to understand why this was happening, other than to blame ourselves. And that, that understanding is poignant. It, um, it tugs at your heartstrings to realize that, you know, this little kid that you were was stuck in this situation. None of us likes to feel that we're stuck or that we were out of control or that, even that something bad happened to us. It's amazing to me that one of the, you know, predominant reactions to trauma is shame.

Mel Robbins 58:01 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 58:02 Uh, it just seems to go with it. You, you don't have to have somebody even actively shaming you about it. It's almost as though if this bad thing happened to me, somehow that means something bad about who I am. And don't, don't ask me how (laughs) or why that is, but it seems to be the human condition. So, when you feel the grief about it, it's like acknowledging the shame, the pain, uh, that you got, um, some, uh, you got the short end of the stick, you didn't get what you need. All of those things in the unconscious psyche tend to equate with, "I didn't deserve it," or, or something along those lines. So it's often hard for us to get to the grief, because we have to pass through the shame that it happened-

Mel Robbins 58:59 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:00 ... to us in the first place.

Mel Robbins 59:02 How can you maintain (laughs) a relationship with a parent who is emotionally immature without getting drained?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:12 I'm not entirely sure that's possible (laughs) . The drained part (laughs) . Not, not, not the, not the having a relationship part.

Mel Robbins 59:19 Well, say more about that.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:20 I, I appreciate you saying that.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:21 Yeah, because I think they're tiring. Um, and I think that they're often emotionally exhausting. So we have to realize that, um, that's gonna be their experience and to not expect it to be any better than that. So one of the things that we wanna do in therapy, for instance, is we wanna lower people's expectations.

Mel Robbins 59:45 (laughs) That sounds so-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:46 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 59:46 ... depressing, but I agree.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 59:48 Yep. Um, it may be depressing, but it, it, it's reality, um-

Mel Robbins 59:52 Well, 'cause you're living in a fantasy. If you've, if you've known somebody your whole life, and they're basically checking every box on Dr. Gibson's list here, and you recognize that you're dealing with somebody who is emotionally immature, then you live in a fantasy world if you actually expect them to magically change. And so lowering expectations, Dr. Gibson, basically just means accepting reality.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:00:20 Y- yes, and it, and it also takes the onus off of you for being able to somehow change this reality-

Mel Robbins 1:00:28 Mm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:00:29 ... that you

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:00:30 should be... You know, if you find the right communication style, if you find the right approach. Uh, but really what I encourage people to do is, if you, if you're going to have contact with the emotionally immature person, try to be, try to go into it aware-... try to stay objective, pretend you're an anthropologist and you're there to investigate this, you know, this, uh, new tribe of people and how they conduct themselves and whatever. So, you get your intellect in the foreground and you try to stay objective in a way that keeps you from being sucked in emotionally into what I call the emotionally, um, immature relationship system, which is, the deal is, you are responsible for my emotional stability and for my self-esteem. Okay? That's the deal. If you go in aware that that's what you're dealing with and that's what's going to happen, you have a chance of avoiding it.

Mel Robbins 1:01:34 What are tools that you can use when you recognize this? Do not get sucked into that.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:01:40 Yeah. I- I suggest a- a little mantra-

Mel Robbins 1:01:43 Okay.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:01:44 ... which is detach, detach, detach.

Mel Robbins 1:01:46 (laughs)

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:01:47 (laughs) I mean, every time you get the urge to explain yourself further or, "Maybe this is the time that, you know, Dad will listen to my political views," or whatever, just like, detach, detach, detach, because that's where your power is, is in how you're going to s- like out of your book, you know-

Mel Robbins 1:02:09 Let them.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:02:09 Yes, exactly, is- is how you're going to behave or how you're going to approach the situation. That is your point of power because there's no way that you're gonna find this secret method of turning an emotionally immature person into someone who cares what you think, okay, or cares how you feel. So, I suggest that technique and the anthropologist fantasy. Also, to stay very connected to yourself, and by that I mean, we tend to dissociate when we're with difficult people. We just kinda zone out, you know? Because it's too hard. Um, so, when I tell people to, you know, maintain their self-connection, it's like, keep up a running dialogue with yourself, keep up a- an active commentary. Um, rub your arm, uh, cross your arms, squeeze yourself, something to bring you back into your body so that you exist just as surely as they do, because you will feel erased, okay, when you get pulled too far into their orbit. The other thing is to find the optimal distance for visits or social contact that allows you to stay in yourself.

Mel Robbins 1:03:38 Mm. Like a two-day rule or a-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:03:41 Yes, uh-

Mel Robbins 1:03:41 ... no overnights or-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:03:43 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 1:03:44 Got it.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:03:44 I mean, when you go back-

Mel Robbins 1:03:45 Neutral territory.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:03:46 Yes. When you go back into your parents' home, I'm sorry, you've just stepped into a time machine, okay? And you're going back to your childhood self whether you want to or not. So, (laughs) we have to be aware of that susceptibility, that vulnerability-

Mel Robbins 1:04:03 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:03 ... and create for ourselves a s- a- a set of boundaries or circumstances that we are willing to engage in because we know we can stay in touch with ourselves.

Mel Robbins 1:04:16 If somebody was would love to take this conversation and start becoming more emotionally mature, what is one thing that you would want for them to do?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:28 I'm a- a big advocate for, uh, journaling.

Mel Robbins 1:04:32 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:32 Now, that's, you know, an introverted solution. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:04:36 It's okay. It's free. That's why I like it.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:38 It's, it's free.

Mel Robbins 1:04:38 So, is there a prompt that you would give to the person listening?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:42 Yeah. What do I wish I hadn't done today?

Mel Robbins 1:04:45 Oh, I love that.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:04:47 Yeah. What do I wish I... If I had a do-over, what would I change? Y- now, you don't have to know what the preferable behavior is yet, okay, 'cause not all of us know what that is, but we do have a little thing, a little bell that rings inside when we do or say something to someone that we love that really matters to us that is off or wrong or hurtful to that person. That is there, um, so, if we ask ourself that simple question, "What do I wish I hadn't done today?" And then we think about, "What could I do next that would make that slightly better?"

Mel Robbins 1:05:32 Hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:05:32 Not fix it, not erase it, just, "What would be the next best thing to do given that I did that? What are my options?" That's- that's the royal road, uh, to profound change right there.

Mel Robbins 1:05:47 So, Dr. Gibson, if you could just give one piece of advice to an adult child of an emotionally immature parent, what would it be?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:05:56 It would be that you matter, that other people are not more important than you. It would be that other people can affect you emotionally whether you want them to or not. That's very important to know because people with, um, especially with emotionally immature parents get down on themselves because there's been this thing promoted that other people can't make you feel things. Well, they certainly can. (laughs) I mean, we are designed to be emotionally affected by other people. That's what's put us at the top of the food chain. We can read and get messages from other people, you know, like that. So, we don't get a choice about whether or not something's going to affect us. It will affect us. What we get a choice about is-... how we're going to respond to that, or when we're going to take ourselves out of the interaction so that we don't get taken over by it. That is within, um, you know, our, our power. I would tell people to grow in their own style. Like, if you're a sweet, nice person, you don't have to turn yourself into some assertive, commanding, uh, take no prisoners type in order to be successful at this. You can be as sweet as you like, as long as your behavior is moving in the direction that you wanna go in. So, maybe you say, "Mom, gee, I wish I could. I'm so sorry. I know you're disappointed. I just, you know, it's just not gonna work for me this time." Now some people would say, "Just set a boundary. Just tell them you can't do it. Like, uh, you know, cut out all the song and dance." But for a lot of people, that's impossible. So, keep your style. Grow in the way that, that feels like you can be yourself.

Mel Robbins 1:07:57 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:07:57 I think we should have more people who wanna be sweet (laughs) and nice-

Mel Robbins 1:08:01 (laughs)

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:08:01 ... not fewer (laughs) . Um, and then the other thing is that, you know, w- we're never going to get rid of the parts of ourself that we're unhappy about. But our job is to learn how to work with them-

Mel Robbins 1:08:17 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:08:17 ... and how to support them, and really most of all, to have a compassionate attitude toward yourself that you did the best you could, and you're continuing to try to do the best that you can. But it's not kind, it's not self-kindness to say, "I wanna get rid of this part," or, "I wanna get rid of the part that feels guilty," or... No, take care of that part. That part keeps you honest about how you treat other people. It's got a whole good side to it. So, you can look at just how you can nudge it toward, um, in, you know, helping you to have better boundaries or whatever. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 1:09:09 Well, after today-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:09:09 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:09:09 ... we're definitely not going to. Dr. Gibson, what are your-

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:09:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:09:12 ... parting words?

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:09:14 Trust that you came factory-equipped (laughs) with the ability to tell who is good for you and who is not, and then please follow that for your own growth and all that you'll be able to give other people once you've taken care of yourself in that way.

Mel Robbins 1:09:34 Well, Dr. Lindsay Gibson, the book is Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. After our conversation today and certainly after, uh, d- devouring your book, I definitely have the ability to tell when somebody is treating me well and when they're not, and that also includes when I'm treating myself well and when I am not. Thank you, thank you, thank you for putting words to the experience that so many people around the world have had. Thank you for validating that experience, and thank you for giving us the tools for how we can heal and how we ourselves can become more emotionally mature and connected and kind human beings.

Dr. Lindsay C. Gibson 1:10:19 Oh, thank you, Mel. It's been a pleasure being with you. Thank you.

Mel Robbins 1:10:23 We so appreciate you, and I also appreciate you, and I know you're going to absolutely love this book. You're gonna love taking all the tools that we discussed today and applying them to your life. Thank you for taking the time to listen to something that can improve your life. There's no doubt what we talked about today absolutely will. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you today that I love you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And our conversation today and the insights that you just gained, it absolutely will help you do that. Alrighty, I'll talk to you f- in a few days, and I will be waiting for you in the very next episode the moment you hit Play. I'll see you there. And thank you for watching all the way to the end, and you're gonna love this next video, and I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit Play.