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6 Signs You Are Addicted to Stress, According to a Psychologist | The Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — I was talking sh*t about my daughter and got caught red-handed. Talk about unnecessary drama. We've all been there. And according to today’s expert, this type of conflict is causing more #stress than you think. Today, I am joined by Dr. Scott Lyons, @drscottlyons, a medical doctor, holistic psychologist, and renowned body-based trauma expert. He says there are 6 telltale signs that you’re #addicted to stress. I never considered myself to be a person who is addicted to stress until this conversation. Dr. Lyons is certified in more healing modalities than you want me to list and has even created his own body-based trauma therapy called Somatic Stress Release™, taught in over 20 countries. You and I are digging into the fascinating science, research, and psychology of stress. And more importantly, you are going to get the tools you need to remove it from your life. Dr. Lyons will explain why we keep ourselves on edge, why we find ourselves picking fights, #gossiping, zombie scrolling, and staying in relationships where #drama is present. This is a cycle you need to break. It’s time you slow down and learn: - The shocking ways you are addicted to stress - How to deal with drama-addicted friends and significant others - What zombie scrolling, zoning out in front of the TV, and always being on the go say about you - What it means when you always need to be the center of attention - What “revving” is and why you need to stop doing it today - The 3 ways to break free from a stress addiction If you’ve read this far, it means you want to feel less stress. I want that for you, too. That’s why I can’t wait for you to listen and learn how to remove all the unnecessary drama from your life. Xo, Mel In this episode: 00:00 Intro 04:28 What exactly does it mean to be ‘addicted to drama’? 05:39 Here are the 9 external signs you might be addicted to drama. 10:52 What is a revving reflex? 11:21 Do you feel these two emotions when things are calm? 12:57 Mic drop: We chase our drama to avoid our traumas. 14:29 What is drama exactly? 17:46 The 3 ways drama feels good. 19:22 Dr. Scott begins to share his own vulnerable story. 20:43 Are you ‘drama bonding’? 23:50 This is why hurt people can’t let go of drama. 28:07 Do these signs feel familiar in your own life? 35:11 Examples of childhood traumas that can create drama addiction. 48:25 Do this so you don’t get involved in their drama cycle. 51:57 One surprising sign of dissociated tolerance I bet you’ll recognize. 52:51 How the heck does stress give you pain relief? — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Scott Lyonsguest
Oct 26, 20231h 10mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 4:28

    Intro

    1. MR

      (ticking sound) You and I are digging into the fascinating science, research, and psychology of drama.

    2. SL

      Do you use language like extremely, literally, always, very, really, never? Do you feel anxious or bored when things are calm? Do you end up gossiping and stirring things up? Drama's not about making sense, it's about making sensation.

    3. MR

      Okay. I'm having a huge light bulb moment.

    4. SL

      Oh. Tell me about it.

    5. MR

      Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So, you know that I believe in synchronicity, I believe in signs, I believe that you can open the portal to the universe, and I have the perfect example of how that happens, it happened to me just this morning. I'm here in Los Angeles at, uh, Sirius XM Studios, and I come out of the bathroom before I was about to step into this room behind the mic and talk to you today, and holy cow, there was all this commotion as I was walking toward the elevators, and boom, this entourage of people walk in, and the person that walked in is somebody that I recognized from a Bravo reality television show. And I didn't even know his name, I just know that he's on this show called Flipping Out, which is a show where he's flipping high-end houses and constantly flipping out at his staff and flipping out at clients. My kids love the show, and I thought, "Oh my God, of course I'm seeing this person right now," because I'm about to go interview one of the world's leading experts on the topic of being addicted to drama (laughs) , and here I am looking at somebody who is on television constantly being dramatic and flipping out, and I thought, "If this is not a sign from the universe that I am in the right place, at the right time, having the right conversation with the perfect expert, I don't know what could be more perfect." So, I came down the elevator, I walked into the studio, and I am so thrilled because I know that today's conversation is gonna change your life. I know that this is exactly what you need to hear, because today, you and I are digging into the fascinating science, research, and psychology of drama. Drama in your life, drama with other people, drama in your relationships, and more importantly, you're going to get the tools that you need to remove it. You're gonna get the tools that you need to be able to diffuse it with people in your life that are dramatic or annoying or constantly about themselves. I am so excited to introduce you to Dr. Scott Lyons. Dr. Scott Lyons is a medical doctor. He has a PhD in clinical psychology and mind/body medicine. He is a renowned expert on somatic healing and the connection between the mind and the body. He has a masters in clinical s- psychology, and he is a renowned body-based trauma expert. His book, Addicted to Drama, is filled with science and psychology and tools and strategies that will help you identify where there is unnecessary drama in your life. He's gonna explain why we create drama, and why we keep ourselves on edge, and why we find ourselves picking fights, gossiping, and staying in these relationships where drama is present. I cannot wait to dig in, so without further ado... Dr. Scott Lyons, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

    6. SL

      Thanks, Mel. I'm so excited to be here.

    7. MR

      I'm thrilled. And so I wanna start with-

    8. SL

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... the most obvious question, which is, what do you mean when you say "addicted to drama"? What does that even mean?

    10. SL

      It's the unnecessary turmoil. It's the exaggeration, it's the performative aspect of the, the use of, eh, the dysregulated use of energy, action, emotion, and the dysfunctional way of adaptation. Like...

    11. MR

      Okay, those were a lot of big words.

    12. SL

      Those were a lot of big words, we can break 'em down.

    13. MR

      But the most-

    14. SL

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      ... important word that I just heard-

  2. 4:28 – 5:39

    What exactly does it mean to be ‘addicted to drama’?

    1. MR

    2. SL

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... was unnecessary.

    4. SL

      Yeah. The unnecessary turmoil. The-

    5. MR

      I-

    6. SL

      ... unnecessary exaggeration, intensification.

    7. MR

      Love that. Here's what I just got from that definition.

    8. SL

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      I think this is super easy to spot in other people.

    10. SL

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      It's the person who's like the bull in the china shop-

    12. SL

      (laughs)

    13. MR

      ... and everything's about them and they're-

    14. SL

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      ... very blustery.

    16. SL

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      But, you just included me in the definition when you said "unnecessary turmoil".

    18. SL

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      And, I never considered myself to be a person who is addicted to drama.

    20. SL

      Mm.

    21. MR

      But I can see and admit-

    22. SL

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      ... that there are many areas and examples in my life-

    24. SL

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      ... where I create unnecessary turmoil-

    26. SL

      Yeah.

    27. MR

      ... for myself. And so, for the person listening, can you-

    28. SL

      Yeah.

    29. MR

      ... just go even deeper?

    30. SL

      Yeah.

  3. 5:39 – 10:52

    Here are the 9 external signs you might be addicted to drama.

    1. SL

      really, never, that sort of extreme language? Do you feel anxious or bored when things are calm?" And now I'm raising my hand (laughs) .

    2. MR

      (laughs) Used to.

    3. SL

      Used to, yeah. Same (laughs) . Um, "Do you end up gossiping and stirring things up?" Gossiping is so interesting because it makes us feel included.... but at a cost.

    4. MR

      Right.

    5. SL

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      And the thing to think- remember about gossiping is if people do it with you-

    7. SL

      (laughs) They're doing it about you.

    8. MR

      ... they always do it about you.

    9. SL

      Exactly. Uh, you crave extreme situations and sensations.

    10. MR

      Hmm.

    11. SL

      So that might be big feelings, it might be big actions like par- you know, like jumping out of an airplane and-

    12. MR

      Or partying every night.

    13. SL

      ... um, rollercoaster, partying.

    14. MR

      Or lots of hookups or-

    15. SL

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      Yeah.

    17. SL

      Absolutely. Uh, you pull people into your crisis.

    18. MR

      Mmm.

    19. SL

      Mmm.

    20. MR

      This is the victim form of drama.

    21. SL

      This is the victim, but it's also what we call drama bonding. So it's a way of feeling connection, so it's like, "Hey Mel, oh my god, you're not gonna believe who I saw in the lobby. He gave me this weird look." And all of a sudden you're saying, "Oh, tell me more," and then I'm pulling you in. I'm pulling you into my vortex.

    22. MR

      Okay.

    23. SL

      So you're like an inclusive-

    24. MR

      Thank you. Dramatic person. (laughs)

    25. SL

      Drama- (laughs) If you find yourself generalizing one bad situation and making it universal, so it's that like, "Someone cut me off on the road today and ugh, what a terrible day it is." Like people-

    26. MR

      Or, "Everybody that I've met is a loser. I'm not dating."

    27. SL

      Yes. Yes.

    28. MR

      "What's up with men? I can't handle this anymore." Yes, okay.

    29. SL

      Yes.

    30. MR

      Okay.

  4. 10:52 – 11:21

    What is a revving reflex?

    1. SL

    2. MR

      Yes.

    3. SL

      You start thinking about that ex. You start getting on your phone-

    4. MR

      (laughs)

    5. SL

      ... you start looking at people, uh, your ex, whomever on the phone. You start doing things that interrupt that ease and that- that stillness.

    6. MR

      Yeah.

    7. SL

      Why? Why when we're sad do we go play even sadder music? Why are we rushing down the street when we have nowhere to go?

    8. MR

      Why?

    9. SL

      Well, part of it's this addiction to drama, this constant sense of dis-ease and urgency that is within us. And that

  5. 11:21 – 12:57

    Do you feel these two emotions when things are calm?

    1. SL

      revving reflex helps us stay out of contact with the vulnerability of what hasn't been processed.

    2. MR

      Okay. I'm having a huge light bulb moment.

    3. SL

      Oh, tell me about it. (laughs)

    4. MR

      Because, you know, Dr. Scott, I, when I think about being addicted to drama-

    5. SL

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      ... I hear that phrase-

    7. SL

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... and I think about external things, right?

    9. SL

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      When I heard addicted to drama-

    11. SL

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... and I- I s- I hear that phrase, I think about someone-

    13. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... who on the surface is flipping out or annoying as hell.

    15. SL

      Yeah. Yeah.

    16. MR

      Or narcissistic-

    17. SL

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      ... or controlling-

    19. SL

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      ... or whatever.That's not actually what you're talking about. That's one aspect of it. Here's what I'm getting.

    21. SL

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      That an addiction to drama is a way to identify and label childhood trauma-

    23. SL

      Yep.

    24. MR

      ... the effect of growing up in a chaotic household-

    25. SL

      Yep.

    26. MR

      ... the effect of having sustained emotional abuse-

    27. SL

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      ... or sexual or physical abuse-

    29. SL

      Yep.

    30. MR

      ... or simply having this experience in your body where you feel on edge all the time.

  6. 12:57 – 14:29

    Mic drop: We chase our drama to avoid our traumas.

    1. MR

      uh... When are we gonna run out of money? When..." And that your, you called it, what did you call it, a revving?

    2. SL

      A revving reflex.

    3. MR

      A revving f- reflex, that, that another way to think about this sense in your life that you have to always be ready-

    4. SL

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      ... for the next thing-

    6. SL

      Yes.

    7. MR

      ... that is the revving reflex going all the time, it sounds like.

    8. SL

      Absolutely. It's the anticipation, the readiness for the next bad thing, for the next trauma. We trace the drama to avoid our traumas.

    9. MR

      Okay. Let's unpack that-

    10. SL

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      ... because you're basically saying-

    12. SL

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      ... whether you are the annoying person in your friend group, in your family-

    14. SL

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      ... where it's all about you, all the time, you can't help it, you're even sick of your own stuff-

    16. SL

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      ... or you're the person who is sitting quietly in the corner-

    18. SL

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      ... with no external evidence that there is drama-

    20. SL

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      ... but you are so in your head-

    22. SL

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      ... and so either anxiety ridden or on edge or just bracing-

    24. SL

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      ... all the time-

    26. SL

      Yeah.

    27. MR

      ... that the drama is actually internal.

    28. SL

      Yeah, that internal revving.

    29. MR

      Got it. Oh, wow.

    30. SL

      So that's the spectrum right there.

  7. 14:29 – 17:46

    What is drama exactly?

    1. MR

      that really struggled with anxiety-

    2. SL

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... for 45 years-

    4. SL

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      ... until I really understood that it was in my body, not in my head-

    6. SL

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... calling it drama feels way nicer and actually more accessible than calling it something like childhood sexual trauma stored in my nervous system.

    8. SL

      (laughs)

    9. MR

      Like, I like the i- I kinda like the idea, okay, it's just drama in my nervous system.

    10. SL

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      Like, why did you start to study this? Why the word drama?

    12. SL

      Yeah. I mean, drama is reclaiming. So we have these-

    13. MR

      What does that mean?

    14. SL

      ... like derogatory terms like drama queen.

    15. MR

      Oh.

    16. SL

      And when most people go, "They're such a drama queen or drama addict," it's usually in a very derogatory context.

    17. MR

      That's true.

    18. SL

      And I wanted to reclaim it. And I wanted to say, okay, so we have this familiar term that all of us, or most of us know. Someone walks in, they take the air out of the room, we know that person.

    19. MR

      Yeah.

    20. SL

      We know that they have some, like, proclivity towards drama-

    21. MR

      Right.

    22. SL

      ... some addiction to it.

    23. MR

      Right. Or i- is this also-

    24. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    25. MR

      ... the kind of person that they just can't get out of their own way?

    26. SL

      Yes.

    27. MR

      They get sober, then they relapse.

    28. SL

      Yeah.

    29. MR

      They, uh-

    30. SL

      They keep dating the person that hurts them.

  8. 17:46 – 19:22

    The 3 ways drama feels good.

    1. MR

    2. SL

      So it gives you enough, the decibel of volume of sensation is high enough to rise above the threshold of numbness to go, "I feel something," and that numbness comes from a trauma response that's protective, that survival response. Then we start to feel like we don't exist, we don't belong.

    3. MR

      Hmm.

    4. SL

      And, and so we start to crave sensation-We start to reach for it, we start to manifest it. We start to find ourselves in scenarios or even create scenarios in our head that give us some type of experience, give a sensation to go, "Oh, at least I feel something even if it's bad." And especially if that something gives me that heightened stress response, I feel energized because that's the first stage of a stress response as it releases energy into our body. And the second part is, is it releases a flood, a cascade of hormones that gives us some pain relief or disconnection from the underlying pain and trauma that we are hiding from, that we have to hide from as a means of survival.

    5. MR

      Or that we don't even know is there.

    6. SL

      Or that we don't even know is there, but is plaguing us.

    7. MR

      Huh. This is so in- how did you, like, get into this?

    8. SL

      (laughs)

    9. MR

      Why did you decide to research this?

    10. SL

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      How did you discover that you had an addiction to drama?

    12. SL

      Yeah. Well, I was always in the arts. (laughs)

    13. MR

      Okay.

    14. SL

      And that, that was an indicator as I, I liked performing-

    15. MR

      Right.

    16. SL

      ... in front of thousands of people, it's like that moment where you feel like the, the rise of excitement and energy, I was like, "Oh my god, I feel alive.

  9. 19:22 – 20:43

    Dr. Scott begins to share his own vulnerable story.

    1. SL

      And I don't feel that in the rest of my life. Interesting." And, um, I was going through a divorce in my late 20s, and I was depressed. I was at the lowest point of my life. I had to move in with my parents. I just couldn't function. And I found that when I called my ex or got into fights with my sister or watched Bravo, whatever it was that, uh, that created some type of tension, I felt alive again. And I started to reflect about back on then, I was like, "Wait, so these moments of tension, of angst, of anxiety, of anger, that's when I feel alive? That's not the life I wanna live." When I would watch the news and I would go call a friend and be like, "Did you see that?"

    2. MR

      Right.

    3. SL

      And I'd feel alive. I'd feel part of something. I'd feel like we were an in group and we had something to share and I felt belonging, and then the moment I hung up, I felt alone again. I was like, "Oh, so that's... I don't wanna live a life where the moments I actually feel relationship are either in fighting or in gossiping."

    4. MR

      That's how a lot of people bond.

    5. SL

      I know.

    6. MR

      Is by complaining or gossiping about other people or complaining about their life or griping about what's wrong.

    7. SL

      Yeah, we drama bond.

    8. MR

      Drama bond.

    9. SL

      We throw

  10. 20:43 – 23:50

    Are you ‘drama bonding’?

    1. SL

      logs on each other's fire, and we feel like we're part of something.

    2. MR

      Yes.

    3. SL

      And I bring you into my tornado of chaos, and all of a sudden, I feel a sense of connection because my internal world is matching the external world and you're in it. And that just isn't a sustainable form of relationship, and yet-

    4. MR

      Is it true that you even faked your own suicide?

    5. SL

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      So tell me that story.

    7. SL

      Yeah. I was in high school, um, and I, I was at my wit's end. I was being bullied by teachers. I was told I was stupid by teachers, that I would never pass high school. I was being shoved into lockers. And I needed an out, I needed a way of surviving, and I didn't want to end my life but I wanted people to feel the pain I was feeling-

    8. MR

      Mm.

    9. SL

      ... so that they could somehow empathize finally with me-

    10. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SL

      ... and, and save me. I wanted to be saved. And so I set the scene. I wrote the note, I put the pills on the ground, I created the performance of my death, and I... What I came to understand later is what I called weaponized empathy. Even though there were people in my life who could relate to me, letting my guard down was too painful, was too scary, and so I couldn't actually recognize that there were people who could empathize with me. The only way I could understand empathy was if they, uh, were in the same pain I was in-

    12. MR

      Hmm.

    13. SL

      ... or something in, close to it, proximity to it.

    14. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SL

      It's like an eye for an eye.

    16. MR

      Right.

    17. SL

      And so many of us do that. We see these fights with partners, like if you don't, uh, like, "You don't truly understand my pain," and so we, we bully them into being in the same sense of pain we are in, and so I did that as a, you know, as a young adult.

    18. MR

      How old were you?

    19. SL

      I was 16 the first time.

    20. MR

      Wait, the first time?

    21. SL

      Yeah, I didn't, I didn't, uh, I didn't get what I needed, and part of why I didn't get what I needed is because I wasn't safe enough in my own body to receive people's love and care, validation, and we see that with those who are addicted to drama and we say like, "I'm here for you," and they don't hear it because hearing it would mean they have to let the drawbridge down of relationship and that would also let the bad things in.

    22. MR

      That makes a lot of sense. You know, my mom has osen- often said to me, "Why would I go to therapy at my age?"

    23. SL

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      "So I have to dig up all that stuff I don't wanna deal with? What if I find out I don't like my life?"

    25. SL

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      "What if I find out I don't like your father? What if I find out I don't like you?"

    27. SL

      (laughs)

    28. MR

      Like I don't want, I don't wanna, like, let that in-

    29. SL

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      ... and so there's a huge part-

  11. 23:50 – 28:07

    This is why hurt people can’t let go of drama.

    1. MR

      want to have to face-

    2. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      ... and realizing when I finally slowed down these past couple years-

    4. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... that I was actively blocking-

    6. SL

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... the love that people were trying to pour into me-

    8. SL

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... because I hadn't yet faced the stuff-

    10. SL

      Yeah.

    11. MR

      ... that needed healing.

    12. SL

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      And so, your first attempt was when you were 16.

    14. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MR

      And then, did they, like... W- how did your parents respond? What did they try to do to intervene? Like, did they send you to therapy? Did you go in-patient? Like, what happened?

    16. SL

      Yeah, I did in-patient.

    17. MR

      And did it help? Did it not? Did it-

    18. SL

      Yeah, I loved it.

    19. MR

      Okay.

    20. SL

      It was a place of safety.

    21. MR

      Okay.

    22. SL

      And so, they would let me out because I was doing so well, and I'd have to go back to that school-

    23. MR

      Oh.

    24. SL

      ... where I was being bullied and, you know, harmed by faculty. I mean-

    25. MR

      And were you out at this point in your life?

    26. SL

      No, no.

    27. MR

      Okay.

    28. SL

      So, it wasn't even part of the conversation as to... I actually got more bullied because I had such severe learning disabilities-

    29. MR

      Oh.

    30. SL

      ... than I did about my sexuality.

  12. 28:07 – 35:11

    Do these signs feel familiar in your own life?

    1. SL

      I'm actually in an anticipation state." So, I'm- I'm already getting ready for the next beep. I feel my body tensing.

    2. MR

      Yep.

    3. SL

      I feel my attention zooming in onto where it could be, and that's what trauma does. So often we think trauma's just stored in the body.

    4. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SL

      But trauma is also about how we get ready for the next possible trauma.

    6. MR

      Explain more about that.

    7. SL

      So, all of our senses, the way we smell, the way we, uh, hear, uh, start to attune, like a TV channel, to the next possible danger.

    8. MR

      Gotcha.

    9. SL

      So, we're looking for it. That is the filter of our life, and-

    10. MR

      Who... Like, it could be your boss, it could be-

    11. SL

      Could be your boss, could be-

    12. MR

      ... friends, could be all this stuff.

    13. SL

      So, all of our senses are more attuned towards danger than safety. So, that is what we find. So, when those who are addicted to drama are, like, saying, "It's always something," it's because that is the channel to which they see the world. That's the channel that's on, the world that is dangerous, and so they constantly feel and are responding to that world of danger. They feel it in their whole nervous system. There's a sense of dis-ease. There's a... Uh, dis-ease is also because they feel disconnected to themselves.

    14. MR

      Hmm.

    15. SL

      There's so much suppression, repression, because they had to disconnect from the trauma that's stored in their body. And the symptom of that, that lets us know there's a disconnection, is dis-ease. We feel that sense of urgency because we're out of sync with the world as we know it. Our world, if we're addicted to drama, feels dangerous. The world that everyone else is in, who doesn't have that-

    16. MR

      Looks easy. (laughs)

    17. SL

      Looks easy.

    18. MR

      Nice and simple.

    19. SL

      And so, there's a sense of being in dissonance, out of sync with everyone.

    20. MR

      So, can I ask you another question?

    21. SL

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      'Cause when you said-

    23. SL

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ... that word, "It's always something-"

    25. SL

      It's always something.

    26. MR

      ... are there other catchphrases that people that have this addiction to drama... Like, I'm thinking about-

    27. SL

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      ... the fact that one of my daughters always says... and I used to say this too, "I always feel like I'm on the outside-

    29. SL

      Yes.

    30. MR

      ... looking in."

  13. 35:11 – 48:25

    Examples of childhood traumas that can create drama addiction.

    1. SL

      away.

    2. MR

      Well, so for somebody who's never even considered this-

    3. SL

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      ... could you give us an example-

    5. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MR

      ... that is relatable-

    7. SL

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... to how some kind of trauma-

    9. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      ... that a lot of people may have experienced-

    11. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... in their childhood-

    13. SL

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... they might not even consider it to be trauma.

    15. SL

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      Can you give us an example of how that can create an addiction to drama as an adult?

    17. SL

      Yeah, absolutely. So most of us have some sense in, in our life of not being seen and heard.

    18. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SL

      That's a, a kind of a very familiar wound for many of us. And so, especially as young kids, what do we do? We don't have very many options. So we disconnect. We disconnect from the feeling, we focus on something else. And it's a suppression repression of it.

    20. MR

      I think I have an example.

    21. SL

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      And it's one I did to my kids.

    23. SL

      Okay, tell me. (laughs)

    24. MR

      So, when our kids were in middle school-

    25. SL

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... I was starting to travel a lot, and my husband was the stay-at-home dad.

    27. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      And one of the things that our daughters, in particular-... say that we did terribly as parents, is that my husband, because of how he was raised-

    29. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MR

      ... would always say to them, "Try to get a ride home."

  14. 48:25 – 51:57

    Do this so you don’t get involved in their drama cycle.

    1. SL

      Go talk to a friend, a therapist to validate your experience.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. SL

      You know, don't rely on their sense of reality to match yours. The more you try to p- put that pressure on yourself or them to have that mutual reality, the more...... challenging you will find it to be in your own sense of peace. The Venn diagram of where the overlap of realities happen is small in those moments.

    4. MR

      Okay.

    5. SL

      Because they are pulling in the past and the future, as opposed to the present.

    6. MR

      What's helped me a lot is understanding that when somebody does that-

    7. SL

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... they are having an experience in their bodies where they're experience some wave of emotion that they literally can't tolerate it.

    9. SL

      Yep.

    10. MR

      So they puke it out at you.

    11. SL

      Yep. The- you become the, or the relationships become the depository for the o- emotions.

    12. MR

      So, is the reason why this is an addiction-

    13. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... is because emotional outbursts or creating this revved up state in your body, or keeping yourself in a loop where you're like, "Nobody gets me. Nobody gets me."

    15. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MR

      "Nobody loves me. Nobody takes care of me."

    17. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      It's an addiction because it's w- why is it an addiction? Like how is it classified as an addiction-

    19. SL

      Yes.

    20. MR

      ... Doctor Scott?

    21. SL

      (laughs) So addiction typically has at least five characteristics to it.

    22. MR

      Okay.

    23. SL

      Including you build up a tolerance level to it. Um, you have withdrawal symptoms. You don't care about the social consequences of the action or the behavior. You, it occupies a lot of your energy and attention.

    24. MR

      Hmm.

    25. SL

      And all of these things really fit into an addiction to drama. An example of tolerance is, you need more to feel more. You need more to get drunk.

    26. MR

      Hmm.

    27. SL

      And the same is true with stress. That we start to need more stress, or more of anything in that regard, to feel more. So, I used to get confused with, I thought I was super toler- like capable of dealing with stress. I had just built up a tolerance level for it, which meant that I needed more th- o- over-scheduling. I needed to be in more grad programs at the same time. I needed more intense relationships to get that high, to get that hit that then gives me a sensation of feeling alive, it gives me a sense of energy, gives me that pain relief. I needed more to feel more. So, that's tolerance.

    28. MR

      Yep.

    29. SL

      Uh, withdrawal symptoms shows up as things like anxiety and boredom. It's part of the collapse. It's like, "Oh, I'm so bored," and we start getting that itch. You know that itch of like, "I gotta do something."

    30. MR

      Yes.

  15. 51:57 – 52:51

    One surprising sign of dissociated tolerance I bet you’ll recognize.

    1. MR

      we had the extraordinary Dr. Thema Bryant-

    2. SL

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... on the podcast, and she said something that really struck a nerve and has gone crazy viral. And it's this idea of, you know, if you have trauma in your background-

    4. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... you really wanna examine why you watch-

    6. SL

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... these crime shows-

    8. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MR

      ... or these horror shows-

    10. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... or these violent entertainment shows at night.

    12. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    13. MR

      And she was saying that that is because it's familiar to you.

    14. SL

      I would go a little further.

    15. MR

      Okay.

    16. SL

      It's familiar so we're in the reenactment pattern, but what does that do for you?

    17. MR

      What does it do for you? I don't know.

    18. SL

      It gives you, it goes back to the three things. It gives you pain relief, it gives you distraction, and it gives you energy.

    19. MR

      How does it give you pain relief? I still don't understand that.

    20. SL

      Yeah. So, we have two main natural pain relievers-

  16. 52:51 – 1:10:32

    How the heck does stress give you pain relief?

    1. SL

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. SL

      ... in our body. We get it from connection-

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. SL

      ... the heart, and we get it from stress. So, let's say-

    6. MR

      How is stress a pain reliever? 'Cause I hear the word stress and I'm like-

    7. SL

      (laughs)

    8. MR

      ... "That's pain."

    9. SL

      So, it's in preparation for what we do as part of a stress response. You're gonna get into a fight, you already need the pain relief, the cascade of hormones that gives you the pain relief, in preparation to deal with and adapt to the circumstances. So, also, in, in love it bl- like, it releases the hormones that then blocks the pain. It, it essentially gives us a distraction technique.

    10. MR

      Gotcha. So you're basically feet up, on the couch. You're watching, uh, you know, some sort of like dramatic-

    11. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... violent kind of thing.

    13. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      You're calling it entertainment.

    15. SL

      Calling it whatever you want.

    16. MR

      Yeah, and the stress is rising-

    17. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      ... but because you're distracted-

    19. SL

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... and the, the stress is flooding your body-

    21. SL

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      ... it relieves you of that boredom and of the restlessness that you felt-

    23. SL

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ... which made you not wanna sit with a book of poems or historical fiction.

    25. SL

      Yeah. What is it that we're not attending to in ourselves when our- we're attending to something on the outside that is stressful?

    26. MR

      I wanna further break this down-

    27. SL

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      ... because I think it's really important what you just taught us.

    29. SL

      Okay.

    30. MR

      So, if I were still in a space in my life-

Episode duration: 1:10:32

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