A Process for Finding Purpose: Do THIS to Build the Life You Want | Jay Shetty

Jay Shetty 0:00 (instrumental music plays) You're not stuck. You're actually grieving a past version of yourself. There's an identity, an idea, a mindset, a behavior, an attitude that is keeping you held back. So reality has moved on, but you've held on and that's what's keeping you stuck. And once you let go of that, once you open and release your hands, all of a sudden you feel free.

Mel Robbins 0:24 I am just blown away.

Jay Shetty 0:27 You can hate where you're at-

Mel Robbins 0:29 Yes.

Jay Shetty 0:29 ... and still gain all the skills you need for your future. That mindset shift is, "How do I turn a place of misery and pain and potentially suffering into a place that becomes the launchpad of my life? This is the place where I take off from." When you're feeling stuck, you might not be able to change what's around you, so change how you view it. There is no rose in the world that grows the day you plant the seed. It takes months, sometimes even years for a tree to have a beautiful fruit or a beautiful flower. If you're feeling like you're caught in a spiral of the same thing after the same thing, life is trying to teach you something. Go to the school of life.

Mel Robbins 1:15 Jay, I think when things feel dark, the job and life is to glow and, uh, you've definitely taught me how to do that. (clock ticking) So before we get into this episode, the team here at The Mel Robbins Podcast shared some data with me, you know I love my data and research, 57% of you who watch The Mel Robbins Podcast here on YouTube are not subscribed to this channel. And here's the deal, I would love to get that down to 50% subscribers by the end of the year. So if you're enjoying the show and you love the guests that we have on, like the one we're gonna have on today, just tap the subscribe button. It's free, it's the best way for you to support the show and to support me and I promise that I will keep making this show better for you every single week. 'Cause my team and I, we're listening to your feedback, we are bringing you the guests that you want to hear from, we're covering the topics that matter most to you, so we're gonna continue to show up for you. Thanks in advance for hitting subscribe and showing up for me. All right, you ready? Let's dive in to today's episode. Hey, it's your friend Mel, and I am absolutely thrilled that you are here. The conversation today is going to be extraordinary. You know, it's always such an honor to spend time with you, to be together with you, and if you're a brand new listener, I also wanna take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. I'm thrilled that you're here and I'm thrilled that you hit play on this particular episode, because it's gonna be extraordinary. It's gonna be exactly what you need to hear. And because you hit play on this episode, I already know something about you. I know that you're someone who values your time, because you're making time to listen to a conversation that will give you greater clarity, purpose, and direction. I also suspect that you're looking for some answers, for a way to make sense of what's going on in your life, and for guidance on how to move forward. If someone sent you this episode, I wanna take a moment and point something out that's really important. You have people in your life who love you, and they want you to experience this conversation because they are certain that what you're about to hear will change your life, it'll open you up to bigger possibilities. And I want you to really listen today and take in everything that you're about to learn, because if you do, time will slow down, your heart will soften, your guard will drop, your mind will expand, and you will know with every cell of your being that what you're hearing today is meant just for you, because it is. Jay Shetty is a person who is so hard to define because the impact that he has on people's lives transcends a label and it is truly global. I consider Jay to be one of my closest friends, especially in this business. To the world, he's known as the host of one of the most successful and award-winning podcasts on the planet. I'm talking about On Purpose with Jay Shetty. He is also the number one New York Times best-selling author of two books, Think Like a Monk and 8 Rules of Love, which have been translated into over 47 languages. Jay is also the chief purpose officer for Calm, the wildly, wildly popular meditation app. He is a former monk who has reinvented himself over and over again, and his work and his life are gonna help you find greater purpose and meaning in yours. Please help me welcome the remarkable Jay Shetty to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Mel Robbins 4:58 Oh my gosh, Jay Shetty-

Jay Shetty 5:01 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 5:01 ... in the house, in Boston. This is just... I have been waiting to welcome you in-

Jay Shetty 5:07 Aw.

Mel Robbins 5:07 ... here in person. Jay, my friend, I'm so excited you're here.

Jay Shetty 5:11 Mel, you're the best. And seeing your entire team and your beautiful studio space, I mean, it's incredible when you get to see your friends' place of genius.

Mel Robbins 5:21 Mm.

Jay Shetty 5:22 And I feel so lucky to be able to walk into it today, and it truly is infused with all your energy, so it's so beautiful to be here. I'm so grateful to be on your incredible podcast. The way you've been serving and showing up for people and truly putting your heart there... And I want people to know, not just in the last 24 months, for decades of just showing up for people privately, personally, publicly, it's incredible to watch and I'm grateful to be your friend, so thank you.

Mel Robbins 5:49 Aw, Jay, you're gonna make me cry.

Jay Shetty 5:50 Yeah. Thank you.

Mel Robbins 5:51 Oh, so that... L- Okay, I gotta pull myself together.

Jay Shetty 5:53 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 5:54 Uh, (laughs) um, I would love to start by having you speak directly to the person who is with us right now.How might they feel different if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us today, wisdom that you've learned, lessons that you wanna share, mistakes that you've made. What could change about their life?

Jay Shetty 6:14 I believe if someone really listens today, and then reflects, and then applies what we share, I believe their mind will become their best friend-

Mel Robbins 6:25 Mm.

Jay Shetty 6:26 ... not their worst enemy. I believe that time will feel like it's full of possibilities, not just full of pressure, which is what we so often feel with time. And I really believe that their life will feel clear and less foggy and less undecided, and they'll actually know their next move, their next step. Maybe not the whole picture, maybe not this big idea of the future that we all seem to over- overwhelm ourselves with, but they'll know their next step, their next move, and they'll feel confident and secure that it's the right step. So I'd say that's what they'll get from listening today and reflecting and applying.

Mel Robbins 7:09 (inhales deeply) I couldn't help but notice that you said listen and reflect, and then at the end, you said reflecting. Why is that so important to not just listen and then do, but to actually take that moment and reflect?

Jay Shetty 7:25 Well, here's the interesting thing, Mel. I think what we don't realize is that there's actually five steps from listening to change.

Mel Robbins 7:33 What?

Jay Shetty 7:34 Yeah, there's five in between, but they're very simple, and if we actually follow them, we're guaranteed success. So the first is learn. The fact that people are listening to us today, the fact that people follow you, they read your books, they may listen to mine, they get the opportunity to learn. But what's the difference? We know lots of people that learn, but never get to change their life. So what's going wrong? What's the missing part? After learning, we have to experiment. You've gotta try this out. You may try it out tomorrow and it may not work. You may try it out on Wednesday and it will work perfectly. You may try it out in a week, and then there'll be a little dip. So experiment with it. Don't feel like it's gonna be perfect tomorrow. Play with it, have fun with it. And then the third step is perform. Once you've experimented, you get into a groove. You start to feel it working, you start to notice it in your body, your mindset feels different when you wake up in the morning. Now you don't have to do all the conscious stuff anymore. It's kind of unconscious. And then finally, there'll always be struggle just before you're about to unlock this new level of greatness. And then finally, there's thrive. So to me, that reflection process is those three steps in between of experimenting, performing, and struggling.

Mel Robbins 8:45 Mm.

Jay Shetty 8:45 It's the ability to try something out, then reflect back and go, "Wait, how could I have done that 1% different? How could I have done that 2% different? What do I need to shift?" And as soon as you start doing that, you start enjoying reflection. So reflection's not just in the mind. It's something you're practicing, it's something you're experimenting with.

Mel Robbins 9:03 I've never heard anybody explain it that way.

Jay Shetty 9:05 I love that.

Mel Robbins 9:06 Well, it makes so much sense because you're right. Like, I think you can hear an idea and you can try it once, and then if it doesn't feel the way you want it to feel, most people stop.

Jay Shetty 9:15 Yes.

Mel Robbins 9:15 And I've never thought about the fact that if you don't actually know that trying something and then reflecting on what worked, what didn't work, tweaking it, experimenting, as you said, you're always gonna stop.

Jay Shetty 9:27 Absolutely. Absolutely. And by the way, isn't it just the case, Mel, that even something that you've done for years, you still need to keep experimenting with it? So just 'cause something worked last year doesn't mean it's gonna work this year. You've gotta keep that process going, and that's what makes it fun and alive, and it doesn't become routine and monotonous. And so I love reflection being an action.

Mel Robbins 9:49 You know, Jay, so many people look to you because you have written just incredible blockbuster books. You have millions and millions of followers. Your podcast is the podcast I listen to. Your podcast is the podcast that inspired me to get into the podcasting space.

Jay Shetty 10:09 (laughs) Mel, you're gonna make me cry.

Mel Robbins 10:10 And so... No, I'm serious. And so I think it's, I think there are times in your life, and you've certainly felt this way, where you're really lost and unhappy, and you feel stuck. And I know you've been there.

Mel Robbins 10:22 And so I would love to just, before we kinda dig into specifics and unpack some of the lessons from your life, what would you say to somebody who really does feel kinda lost right now or stuck or doesn't know what their next move is? And how do you want the person who feels that way to think about that moment where you feel like you don't know what to do next?

Jay Shetty 10:46 I love what you asked there because you said, "How would you like someone to think about that moment?" What I'd like people to remember is that you're not stuck. You're actually grieving a past version of yourself. So there's a part of you that's died that actually you left behind a long time ago, but there's a part of you that still misses it. You still want things to be the same. You still want things to be that way, and that keeps pulling you back.

Mel Robbins 11:12 Mm.

Jay Shetty 11:12 And that's actually blocking you from making the next move. It's stopping you because life used to be this way or life used to feel this way. And so we're stuck not because we don't know what to do next. We're stuck because there's a part of us that wants to hold on to what we have here. There's a beautiful Zen teaching that says, "What's holding you back is what you're holding on to." And I think if people think about that for a second, what are you holding on to that's holding you back? What are you clinging on to that's keeping you stuck? There's an identity, an idea, a mindset, a behavior, an attitude that is keeping you held back. And once you let go of that, once you open and release your hands, all of a sudden you feel free. So what identity, what habit, what mindset, what expectation are you letting yourself be held back by that if you were to let go of, you could easily move forward?

Mel Robbins 12:08 Can you give an example?

Jay Shetty 12:09 Yes.

Mel Robbins 12:09 You know what I'm saying? Because if- I, I think I understand what you're saying.

Jay Shetty 12:12 Yes.

Mel Robbins 12:13 Like, I'm trying to think about-

Jay Shetty 12:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:14 ... um, a scenario where, uh, let's say, somebody is at a moment in their life where there's a change. You have gone through a breakup, or maybe you've raised your kids and they've launched, and now you're trying to figure out your next chapter.

Jay Shetty 12:28 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:29 Maybe, um, you just lost your job-

Jay Shetty 12:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 12:32 ... and now you're like, "Oh my God, what do I do?" What are the kinds of things that people hold onto that you may not realize y- this is what you're actually holding onto?

Jay Shetty 12:41 Yes. Uh, so all three examples you gave apply. If you've raised your kids and they've left the house, there's a part of you that misses what the home felt like with their energy.

Mel Robbins 12:51 Mm.

Jay Shetty 12:51 And now you spend all your day thinking about all the memories in the corners. You look in this corner, and you remember your child growing up. You look in this corner, and you remember Christmas dinner. You look at this place. So you're, you're constantly surrounding yourself with an identity that no longer exists. So you don't have the time or the energy or the presence to be able to even think about what comes next, because there's a part of you that still feels affected. If you go through a relationship breakup, you keep looking at pictures of when you went on vacation. You keep looking at the pictures of when you had your first date. You keep looking at the, um, memories of, maybe it's a clothing, piece of clothing, maybe it's an item at home, whatever you're surrounded by. So you're still living as if you're still dating that person-

Mel Robbins 13:34 Mm.

Jay Shetty 13:35 ... in your mind.

Mel Robbins 13:35 Mm.

Jay Shetty 13:36 And so that's all holding onto something that is an identity that's already moved on in life. Your kids have already moved on. They're at college or they're getting engaged. Your ex has already moved on. They're in a new relationship or they're alone. So reality has moved on, but you've held on to the piece of clothing, the memory, the photo, the whatever it may be. And that's what's keeping you stuck. So my question to everyone is, what is that thing for you?

Mel Robbins 14:04 Mm.

Jay Shetty 14:04 And how do you learn to release it? That's the focus.

Jay Shetty 14:07 I think we think we're stuck because we don't know what to do next. No, we're stuck because we're still holding onto what's behind us. And as soon as you release it, you propel yourself forward. Have you ever felt that before when you're holding onto something really tight? If you let go of it, all of a sudden you feel momentum. Momentum doesn't come from knowing where you're going, it comes from knowing that I don't want to be here anymore.

Mel Robbins 14:27 That is so important because so many people stay where they are because they don't know where they want to go next. And I always say, "Well, actually, if you can be honest with yourself and say, 'I just don't like how my life feels anymore'"-

Jay Shetty 14:41 Yes.

Mel Robbins 14:42 ... "you're already moving in a new direction 'cause you're moving away from what's not working." I have one more example to give you-

Jay Shetty 14:48 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 14:48 ... because what you just said was brilliant. It, uh, i- i- it- y- you have this ability, Jay, to just take wisdom, philosophy, psychology, and make it so immensely obvious that I both feel inspired and sort of like an idiot that I didn't see it, you know, myself. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 15:08 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:08 And I'm torched. But no, I have one more-

Jay Shetty 15:10 Yes.

Mel Robbins 15:10 ... uh, example to give you about this feeling-

Jay Shetty 15:12 Yes.

Mel Robbins 15:12 ... of being stuck because there are so many people that have artistry inside themselves, whether it's wanting to start a YouTube channel, or it's wanting to, uh, become a singer, or it's wanting to, uh, express themselves on social media, or it's wanting to learn how to market themselves better on social media, and yet there is so much resistance to putting yourself out there. And so in this paradigm where we're talking about holding onto something and grieving who you used to be, if somebody is actively fighting against their deep internal desire to start putting themselves out there in a new chapter, whether it's marketing a business, or starting a YouTube channel, or performing and singing on s- whatever it may be, what is it that you're holding onto?

Jay Shetty 16:04 It's the identity and the reputation that that identity's built.

Mel Robbins 16:09 Okay. Say more about that.

Jay Shetty 16:10 S- yes. So it's saying, "Well, I'm a teacher. I can't be a social media creator. I'm a teacher. That's what my friends know me as. That's not- what my students know me as. That's what my f- parents, uh, know me as. That's what my kids know me as. How can I be a teacher and be a social media creator? It's not possible." "Oh, I'm a nurse. How can I be a nurse and a podcaster? That, that can't be the case. What do I have to offer? I'm a nurse, and by the way, that's what everyone in my social circle knows me as. So now if I record a podcast, they're gonna look at me and think, 'Wait, what does she have to say?'" "Wh- what are you gonna teach the world?" "Oh, I'm a mom. I can't be a mom and own a TikTok shop. I don't know how to do that. I, I didn't go to business school. I didn't..." So this is what we do, and the real reason is because our social circle has validated or at least approved that current position.

Mel Robbins 17:03 Mm.

Jay Shetty 17:03 Everyone in our social circle knows what that means, they recognize it, and they understand it. As soon as we do something that people don't understand, we're scared that they're not going to like us. And as soon as we think they're not gonna like us for doing something they don't understand, we leave behind what we love because we say, "Well, I can't do it if they're gonna misunderstand me. I can't do it if they're gonna dislike me." I have so many friends right now, Mel, honestly, that are scared to put out a video because they feel the pressure from their own friends. People are not feeling pressure from the world. People are usually not worried about the comments that will come many years into being a creator. It's the people around us that we're most worried about. And so the only way we let go of that is recognizing and building this i- identity and insight that, "I can be a teacher and a creator. I can be a nurse and a podcaster. I can be a mom and own an online business. I can be two things at once, and I don't need anyone else's permission. And by the way, when I pull it off, even then they won't understand." So it was never about them understanding. It was always about me focusing on what I love.

Mel Robbins 18:11 Yes.... uh, you know, I- I know that I've had, like, so many career changes.

Jay Shetty 18:15 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:15 I sometimes feel like I'm a cover band for ABBA-

Jay Shetty 18:18 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:18 ... doing costume changes. Like, it's not a resume, it's like a choose-your-own-adventure.

Jay Shetty 18:23 Yes.

Mel Robbins 18:23 But you have had so many-

Jay Shetty 18:25 Oh, gosh.

Mel Robbins 18:25 ... twists and turns in your career. You- you literally went from university-

Jay Shetty 18:28 Oh, my God.

Mel Robbins 18:28 ... to a massive, like, consulting job to pursuing, like, spiritual training as a monk to then deciding, having an epiphany, and at every one of those moments, there was that pressure that you're talking about, where you have to make a call that who you are and how you're living your life no longer feels right, and then you... But you have always made the turn.

Jay Shetty 18:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 18:55 And so can you just, like, quickly kind of tell us a few of those moments so that the person listening understands that at any single moment, you were literally one decision away from turning your life in a different direction? And talk a little bit about what holds you back when that resistance shows up, like, "Well, I can't leave a consulting job."

Jay Shetty 19:17 Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And the idea is everyone needs to become a professional quitter, right? It's like we need to get really good at quitting. And as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking back to... I remember when I decided to become a monk, pretty much no one around me understood why. I remember when I decided to leave the monastery, pretty much everyone around me didn't understand why. When I decided to get a job in consulting after being a monk, people were like, "Why?" When I decided to leave my successful consulting job to try and make videos online, people were like, "Why are you doing that?" Then, when those videos became successful and I decided to launch a podcast, I had three podcast production companies tell me, "Jay, people like listening to you for four minutes. No one wants to listen to you for an hour. Don't launch a podcast." So we launched a podcast anyway, and thanks to the millions of people that listen to you, that listen to us, that know us, that became a success. So, I always listen to people, not the executives in the room. Then I wanted to launch a book, Mel, and I went to launch a book and 14 out of 17 imprints told me, "Don't call it Think Like a Monk because no one wants to think like a monk." Five years later, the book sold millions of copies, again, thanks to those people, not the people in the room. Why am I sharing all of that? Because I didn't know what the future held. It's not that I had a really clear view of exactly where I was going or that when I left the monastery I knew I'd be here today, or that when we launched the podcast I knew I'd be here. And I wanna get that thought out of people's heads, that if I don't have the full life mapped out and planned out, that I can't take the first step, because I don't think I've ever known where my life's going. And so this whole idea that you have to have everything figured out before you take your first step is the biggest lie we've been told. This idea that if you don't have a clear vision, you don't know where you're going, is the biggest lie we've been told. How could anyone possibly have every step mapped out? Tell me one person that we know in the world, anyone you look up to, that could tell you they meticulously knew every single step. They didn't, but they took that first step. And I think that's what's holding us back, is this idea that I have to know everything before I do one thing.

Mel Robbins 21:38 What is the one thing, though? Because I think that's the thing-

Jay Shetty 21:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 21:40 ... that's confounding until you actually figure out the riddle in life.

Jay Shetty 21:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 21:44 Right?

Jay Shetty 21:45 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 21:45 It's sort of like you can't explain to somebody what it feels like to be married until you've done it.

Jay Shetty 21:52 Yes. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 21:52 You can't explain to somebody how shockingly simple things can be until you've learned how to push through your own resistance to the things that you're interested in and curious about experimenting with or trying.

Jay Shetty 22:06 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:07 And so for somebody that's never even considered a possibility for themselves beyond consulting-

Jay Shetty 22:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:13 ... or beyond, uh, where they're at right now, or beyond the major that they had, or beyond the city that they live in, what is that first step? And is there a way, if you're not even in touch-

Jay Shetty 22:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:26 ... with what it feels like to be pulled towards something new, to identify it in yourself? Because I think that's one of the things that you do for people.

Jay Shetty 22:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:33 You help people see a bigger possibility for themselves and it took me a long time to go from simply surviving and trying to pay bills and get through the day, to understanding that there's a different way to wake up and be tapped into the signals and the energetic things that pull you in different directions.

Jay Shetty 22:58 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:58 Because I think that's what you're talking about when you say, "All you need to do is take one step."

Jay Shetty 23:03 Yes. The step, I'd say, in the most practical way, to make it really, really simple for people and get away from any philosophical idea, is it's actually not about falling in love with something new or finding something else. It's about extracting and learning every possible thing from where you are right now. Whatever job you're in-

Mel Robbins 23:27 But I don't wanna do that, Jay, 'cause I hate where I'm at. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:28 But that is the thing, but that is the thing.

Mel Robbins 23:31 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 23:31 You can hate where you're at-

Mel Robbins 23:33 Yes.

Jay Shetty 23:33 ... and still gain all the skills you need for your future. When I was a consultant, I knew I did not want to be a consultant for the rest of my life, but I learned so many incredible skills from consulting that are so useful today.

Mel Robbins 23:46 Okay.

Jay Shetty 23:46 Whether it's negotiation, whether it's communication, whether it's presentation, whether it's connecting with clients, whatever it may be, there are so many skills. If you're working in a school, I promise you, there are so many skills in that school that are available, that if you start learning, all of a sudden, that place you hate becomes a place that becomes a stepping stone for your next step.

Mel Robbins 24:05 So is there a mindset swi- shift, like from, "I hate this dread," like there have been parts of... There have been times in my life where I-

Jay Shetty 24:12 Me too.

Mel Robbins 24:12 ... literally-You're heading to work, you're just like, "I do not want to walk through the door and actually have to be there today." So, is there a mindset shift that you would advise us to just hold onto?

Jay Shetty 24:27 Yes.

Mel Robbins 24:28 Because it shifts the experience of being where you are. What is that mindset shift?

Jay Shetty 24:34 If you're going to spend eight to nine hours, maybe more, at work every day, it's not great to walk in and think that for nine hours a day, your mind is programming your thoughts to say, "I hate being here. I don't wanna be here. I can't wait to get out." Because you've wasted nine hours of your day that could be used in building the next thing. So, the mindset shift is, "I do hate being here. I'm going to accept that. I'm going to acknowledge that. I'm not gonna lie to myself. But I'm gonna take everything I possibly can from this opportunity because it is a part of my story, and it is such a powerful part of my story because this only makes the story better. I'm gonna learn from a place that I hate, and I'm gonna learn everything I possibly can." And so that mindset shift is, "How do I turn and transform a place of misery and pain and potentially suffering into a place that becomes the launchpad of my life?" And all of a sudden, now you're walking to work thinking, "Oh, this is a launchpad. Oh, wait a minute, this is a step. This is the place where I take off from," rather than, "Oh, this is a place that's keeping me in prison." And I think that's the switch that people need to make, because if you're always looking for it outside of work, you're only giving yourself two hours in the evening, maybe an hour if you're lucky after you've done the chores, put the kids to bed, washed the dishes. So, why not use those eight to nine hours to build skills, to build confidence, to build security that you have available to you?

Mel Robbins 26:02 Well, you know what else I hear? I hear trust.

Jay Shetty 26:04 Yes.

Mel Robbins 26:05 Because I think a lot of times, at least me personally, when I've felt very stuck, there was this intense feeling like I was in the wrong place-

Jay Shetty 26:14 Yes.

Mel Robbins 26:14 ... which then creates resistance. And what you just did is, by saying, "If I'm gonna spend eight hours here, then I'm gonna get everything I can out of it, because I trust that by doing that, I'll actually find the next thing."

Jay Shetty 26:29 There's a beautiful book which talks about how really we find our purpose through sampling. And when I think of the word sampling, the way I describe it as is collecting and connecting. You are collecting stories, experiences, skills, and ideas in every job you work in. And one day, after collecting for many, many years, you will connect the dots of all of those different skills, of all of those different experiences, and that's when everything falls into place. But if you don't collect in the first place, there's nothing to connect. It's not about finding and discovering something, it's collecting along the way. You're collecting little jigsaw pieces, and then one day you spread them out and you put them down and you start putting the pieces out and they all fit, and you go, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe they connected." When I look back at my life and I think, "I'm as much a consultant as I am a monk, as I am a media person," all of those things are really valuable parts of me. And it goes back to the point I was making earlier, "I can't be a nurse and a content creator. I can't be this and that." Well, you can, because that is your superpower. Your superpower is that you did what you did in the past and what you do now.

Mel Robbins 27:41 And by the way, you already are those things.

Jay Shetty 27:42 You already are those things, whether you like it or not.

Mel Robbins 27:44 And maybe that's the whole point, that you already are those things, which is why you feel haunted when you are in a chapter in your life that is over-

Jay Shetty 27:56 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:56 ... and it's time for you to move toward the next thing that's already a part of you. And the reason why you know it's already a part of you is 'cause you actually feel pulled to make YouTube videos-

Jay Shetty 28:05 Yes.

Mel Robbins 28:06 ... or pulled to go back to graduate school, or pulled to be in a different relationship.

Jay Shetty 28:11 And I think this all goes back to college-

Mel Robbins 28:13 What do you mean?

Jay Shetty 28:13 ... and school, in the sense that we were all forced to think you had to pick one thing.

Mel Robbins 28:18 Hm.

Jay Shetty 28:18 Your whole life, you were trained to say, "I've gotta pick one thing that I've gotta do for the rest of my life." That's how you were trained. So, when you were young, you start narrowing down your subjects, you get to college, you pick a major, you focus in on one thing, and you think you have to do that for the rest of your life. And then you start doing it for three years, and then three years into a new job, you go, "I don't wanna do this anymore. This isn't what it was meant to be." But your whole life, you were told you could only be one thing. You had to pick one thing to focus on. So, that's why we're so obsessed with this idea that my title should have to be one thing. I should be able to say, "I'm a lawyer, I'm an accountant, I'm a doctor, I'm a nurse, I'm a teacher, I'm a mom," whatever it is. But I can't be three things. That's complicated. But we've been forced to believe that you are that title.

Mel Robbins 29:01 Hm.

Jay Shetty 29:01 You are a manager, or by the way, senior manager, and you feel better about it, or executive, and you're made to feel better about it, but you're only allowed to be that. You can't then be anything else. And so I love it when I see people in their Instagram bios and people are like, "I'm a mom first, but I'm an executive second, I'm a this."

Mel Robbins 29:17 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 29:17 Like, I love it that people are playing with that idea, because that's the permission we need.

Mel Robbins 29:22 So, Jay, what is the difference between purpose and passion? And what do we get wrong about it?

Jay Shetty 29:30 Passion is what brings you life. It's what brings you joy. It's what makes you feel like you're doing something exciting and exhilarating and thrilling. So for me, it's studying and learning and synthesizing. I could spend a weekend in a cave of books and never get out and make notes and study. That's one of my greatest passions in life. Your purpose is when you use your passion in the service of others. If your passion doesn't have a service element, if you don't use it to improve people's lives, if you don't use it to inform other people, if you don't use it to make a difference in someone's life, it's not a purpose. So, let me give an example.

Mel Robbins 30:11 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 30:11 If you're a photographer...... and your favorite passion in the world is photography, you love finding unique locations, you love capturing human emotion, you love capturing memories for people, as soon as you start doing it for others, it's a purpose. There you have it, it's that simple. It's not like you have to go on a whole charity trail and start taking pictures and giving them out for free. When you start capturing moments and you do it with that intent, it's a service. There's a beautiful study that I love from Amy Wrzesniewski and her team at the Yale School of Management. So, they went out in 2019 to research what they believed was the most difficult job in America. Any guesses, Mel?

Mel Robbins 30:52 Um, psychologically or physically? (laughs)

Jay Shetty 30:55 And well, it- they, they just went out to, yeah, to think, "What was the most difficult job-"

Mel Robbins 30:58 Well, I think probably a teacher.

Jay Shetty 30:59 Yeah. That was, that was up there.

Mel Robbins 31:01 Or a public servant? I don't know.

Jay Shetty 31:02 All up there. The, the one that they decided on was hospital cleaner-

Mel Robbins 31:06 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 31:06 ... because they believe that these people not only have to wash bedsheets, pillows, floors, toilets, plates, they have to wash up after people pass away.

Mel Robbins 31:15 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 31:15 So, it's a very heavy job. And also, you just finished cleaning a toilet, you leave, and now you got to run in and clean it again. It's not as simple as, "Hey, we did that once and it doesn't happen anymore." So, they went and interviewed these hospital cleaners, and they asked them what they did. And the hospital cleaners said, "We believe we're low-skilled labor," in their own words, "We wash toilets, plates, floors." They carried on and they found this whole group of hospital cleaners who didn't call themself cleaners, they called themselves healers and carers. These healers worked the exact same hours as the cleaners, they worked the same shifts, they worked the same hospitals, they got paid the same amount, but they were happier, more purposeful, and more productive. So, they asked them, "Why do you call yourself healers?" They said, and this blew my mind, like, every time I, I think about this, it really makes me emotional because it's so powerful. They said, "We believe that a clean hospital is integral to the healing journey of a patient."

Mel Robbins 32:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 32:19 "We think that when the hospital is clean, people have more dignity at a time of difficulty. We believe that when the hospital is clean, that people's families will spend more time with them. They'll actually surround their bedside because it feels like a clean atmosphere in their time of need." They said, "We believe that a clean hospital is part of healing, so how could we see ourselves as anything else?" What I love about that, Mel, is that Amy Wrzesniewski and her team came up with a term called job crafting, which means it's not what you do every day, it's how you feel about what you do every day that changes the experience of it. It's not just what you do, it's not even why you do it, it's how you feel about it, how do you feel about what you do? They all felt that what they did was critical to healing, and it transformed their experience. And there's this beautiful quote from Wayne Dyer that I loved where he said, "When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." And I really believe that that's what we're all being called to do right now. When you're feeling stuck, you might not be able to change what's around you, so change how you view it, change how you look at it, because all of a sudden, everything starts to change in your favor.

Mel Robbins 33:40 That is the single best definition of purpose I've ever heard, and it's accessible. And I wanna make sure that as you're listening to Jay and you're spending time together with us, that you really take away that definition, because it's, even when you're stuck or even when you've just got a lot going on, it's very easy to identify the little things in your life that energize you-

Jay Shetty 34:03 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:03 ... whether it's books like Jay, or for me, it's, I love gardening and flowers-

Jay Shetty 34:07 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:07 ... and I love cooking, I love spending time with my family.

Jay Shetty 34:11 Yep.

Mel Robbins 34:11 Uh, I love making people smile. That brings me energy, right?

Jay Shetty 34:14 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:14 I love being outside, I love learning. And so when you take those things that naturally bring you energy and you do a little bit more of it, it lifts you up. But then when you figure out ways to extend those things that bring you energy in service of others, now you're on the track of discovering why you're here in the first place-

Jay Shetty 34:37 Yes.

Mel Robbins 34:38 ... and aligning your life with purpose. And so in that beautiful example you just gave, and thinking about, it energizes people to be, like, part of something where you're caring for people.

Jay Shetty 34:50 Even in the hardest job in the world-

Mel Robbins 34:52 Yes.

Jay Shetty 34:52 ... that's why I use that example-

Mel Robbins 34:53 Yes.

Jay Shetty 34:53 ... because those individuals may not even be passionate about cleaning, but they found a way to think about it differently. That's why it touches my heart so much-

Mel Robbins 35:02 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:02 ... because it's in such a difficult space and environment. And to your point, Mel, what you were just saying, I was talking to one of my, uh, team about this, and she was talking to me about how her mum didn't really know what her purpose was. So, I asked her, what's her passion? And she said her favorite thing is to organize family trips. And so now, her mom has started organizing family trips for not only her family, but the friends of her family and couples. And so she's a s- a retired mom at this point in her life, but she loves planning trips, she lives vicariously through all of her kids and their friends and grandkids and whoever else it is, and that's what she does now. That's a purpose. Your purpose doesn't need to be this big thing that you have to go and change a million people's lives or a billion people's lives. If you can do that, that's beautiful, but that's not what a purpose is. A purpose is not defined by scale, it's not defined by the amount of people you reach, it's not defined by doing something big. Your purpose doesn't have to be your job, it doesn't have to be something you dream of doing every day. Your purpose is simply using your passion in the service of others, in the smallest of ways, in the simplest of ways, and it brings you so much joy. And by the way-... it also gives you validation for something beautiful that you do. We all want validation, we all seek it, and I wanna just normalize that because I think people feel bad for wanting it.

Mel Robbins 36:25 Mm.

Jay Shetty 36:25 But we all need to feel wanted and needed and loved, it's part of being human. But the problem is when you become someone you don't wanna be or do something you don't wanna do to get validation. Whereas when you get validated for using your passion in the service of others, there's no greater feeling than that.

Mel Robbins 36:43 You know, I wanna give an example because I feel like one of the mistakes that I made for a long time when it came to, quote, "Discovering my purpose," is that I thought it was one thing, and it's actually everything.

Jay Shetty 36:57 Yes.

Mel Robbins 36:57 And so, when we moved to Southern Vermont, and I remember feeling very stuck and in a new chapter and isolated and needing to, like, meet all new friends and build community, that I learned of this flower farmer and her flowers were, it was near the end of the s- near the end of the summer and into fall and frost was coming and it's dahlias, and you need to dig them up. I know, I'm getting r- really geeky on-

Jay Shetty 37:22 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 37:22 ... flowers. And the frost was starting to hit, and it was an entire field and they were all gonna die, and I felt this, like, ache because flowers bring me energy.

Jay Shetty 37:32 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 37:33 I don't know why. (laughs) I tracked down the person who was growing the flowers to f- and found out that they had had a health issue.

Jay Shetty 37:41 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 37:42 And so I organized a bunch of women that I had recently met to help this person dig up the tubers.

Jay Shetty 37:49 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 37:50 That is an example that has nothing to do with career.

Jay Shetty 37:53 Yes.

Mel Robbins 37:54 It has nothing to do with my life's mission and all the things I do for work. It is a small example-

Jay Shetty 38:01 Yes.

Mel Robbins 38:02 ... of how I took something that energized me and used that energy that's authentic to me-

Jay Shetty 38:10 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 38:10 ... in service of someone else. And that small example is an example of how you can infuse a sense of purpose in your day-to-day life in really small but deeply meaningful and important ways.

Jay Shetty 38:26 Yes. Yes. I love that. And it's so true. I'm thinking about Radhi. When Radhi first moved with me to America, she couldn't work here because she was on a spouse visa and-

Mel Robbins 38:35 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:35 ... until we all got all that sorted out. And Radhi wasn't always the writer of a New York Times best-selling cookbook. Like, that's a very, like, recent iteration of her life. She was-

Mel Robbins 38:46 Well, when we became friends, Jay-

Jay Shetty 38:48 Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 38:48 So, you know, like, you and I have been friends for a long time.

Jay Shetty 38:52 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:52 And we are extremely-

Jay Shetty 38:54 It has been a long time.

Mel Robbins 38:54 ... supportive and fond of one another, our spouses know each other, but when I first met you and Radhi, she had not launched this part of her life.

Jay Shetty 39:03 Absolutely. No social media.

Mel Robbins 39:04 Nothing.

Jay Shetty 39:04 No content. Yeah, exactly. And so obviously, we remember her like that.

Mel Robbins 39:08 Yes.

Jay Shetty 39:08 She isn't like that to the world now, but I remember when we moved to LA, Radhi would just be really sad when we'd be driving around and see the homeless situation. And she always loved cooking, like, she was always a fan of cooking. Since I've known her, she's been an amazing cook. She would literally just cook and deliver meals. She'd get involved in food distribution programs in the area, she'd go and find out and talk to communities of how she could help. Before she made any content, she was just out there doing that, and that's what built her confidence in being able to do it and being able to deliver. And then even when someone said to her, "Hey, would you cater?" She said, "I don't wanna do it as catering." She loves cooking as a act of love, as an-

Mel Robbins 39:47 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:47 ... act of service. If you come over, she'd wanna cook for you because you're a friend. That's what she enjoys. She wants to cook for people in need, that's what she gets passion from. She doesn't actually wanna be said, "Hey, can you make 20 meals of this?" She- th- that's not actually what brings her joy. And so, you can see how it, your purpose doesn't have to be your job. Your purpose doesn't have to be big. Your purpose doesn't have to get you followers. Your purpose doesn't need to have social media. It doesn't need to have any of those things. And actually, if you start without all of those things, you'll build more confidence, more self-worth, and more joy, that then if you wanna do any of those things, they'll happen naturally. They'll come as a byproduct of that infectious energy you feel and that I've seen Radhi feel.

Mel Robbins 40:31 Well, I wanna come back to two themes and highlight it. You know, one of the things that you said is it's not about imagining the thing out there, it's about really stopping and listening and reflecting on what Jay is sharing with you about the fact that there's something that's already bringing you energy, that when you do it, it- it just brings something out in you-

Jay Shetty 40:54 Yes.

Mel Robbins 40:54 ... and then finding ways to do it in service of others. So if you take the example of your wife, she's focused on cooking as an act of love. It's always been a creative expression, it naturally energizes her, and so she used that to lift herself up in a new chapter of her life. She found a way to be of service. And the amazing thing about life is that when you align yourself with the things that naturally energize you and you, let's come to a second thing we've talked about, Jay, trust that where you are is somehow in service of where you're meant to go, follow the energy and follow how you serve others in sharing that energy, and that is how you actually start walking in the path that is meant for you. And I just wanna point out that not only is she a New York Times best-selling cookbook author, but the name of the cookbook is Joy Full.

Jay Shetty 41:58 Yes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:59 As in F-U-L-L.

Jay Shetty 42:01 Yes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 42:02 'Cause you're full of her fabulous vegan cooking.

Jay Shetty 42:04 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 42:05 And so she didn't start cooking and serving people in LA because she's like, "I'm gonna write a cookbook one of these days."

Jay Shetty 42:13 Yes, exactly.

Mel Robbins 42:14 She did it to lift herself up...... at a moment in her life where she was stuck-

Jay Shetty 42:20 Yes.

Mel Robbins 42:20 ... and where she was moving to a new place. And so, it's so important to understand, it's not the thing that you're imagining, it's the energy in you, and it's the ability to shift your mindset, and trust that if you leverage that positive energy in service of others, it always, always, always points you where you're meant to go.

Jay Shetty 42:41 Yes. And people will say to us, "But I don't know what I like. I don't know what gives me energy." I hear that a lot today.

Mel Robbins 42:48 You do.

Jay Shetty 42:48 Yeah, where it's like people are just like, "I don't know what gives me energy anymore. I'm kind of numb to it." Like, and I think the point is not to find this big bright light of energy from something. It's this small, tiny voice. It's been ignored for so long that the way it shows up within us isn't always this big loud scream. It's this quiet little whisper that just says, "Try this. Give it a go." It's not this big calling. I think we, we think about callings, and what we want to do is this big bright light of information and a sign. Signs are small. They're whispers. They're quiet. And I think if we just lean into that, it may just be the little voice in your head that says, "You love organizing birthdays. Why don't you just organize a couple more birthday parties this year? Oh, you're really good at event planning. Why don't you help your friend with their wedding? Oh, you know what? You're really, really good at writing. Why don't you just write a quote every day?" Right? It's that little voice, so just follow the whisper.

Mel Robbins 43:49 Do you think that your life, if you look backwards, also provides answers for what energizes you?

Jay Shetty 43:54 Yes.

Mel Robbins 43:54 Because I think it's a very important point to validate that we are at a moment in time where the research bears out that over 80% of us are living in a state of chronic stress.

Jay Shetty 44:06 Yes.

Mel Robbins 44:07 The feeling of being numb is very, very common right now and probably a sign that you're actually mentally well-

Jay Shetty 44:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:16 ... because there's so much chaos and overwhelm and stuff, but so validating that, and even if somebody turns inward and doesn't quite feel it, are there other things that someone can do that you would recommend to help access that if you're just at a point where you're just, "I am so spent, I don't even know myself anymore"?

Jay Shetty 44:34 Yes. I promise you, and I really mean this, and I want everyone to really internalize this as I say it. You are already successful at something. It's just so easy to you that you don't think of it as success. There's something that comes effortlessly to you. Maybe you graduated college with flying colors. Maybe you take care of your kids in the best way possible. Maybe you're just incredible at showing up for your work colleagues. You already are extremely, incredibly successful at something, but because it's easy for you and natural for you, you don't think it's a skill. So look back at your life and look back at all the things that you've done beautifully. You showed up for your friends at college. You helped your colleagues through a tough time. You've already been doing that. You just don't know what that looks like because you think that's what a good person does.

Mel Robbins 45:25 Mmm.

Jay Shetty 45:26 And it is what a good person does, but on top of that, it is value that you've been adding all along the way. Look at the clues, look at the footprints, look at the steps behind, and don't take them for granted. Most likely, the things that you don't value because they're simple to you are the things that the world is looking for. Radhi's cooking skill is something that comes really naturally to her. She's worked on it, but it's natural. She doesn't, she didn't value it. She didn't realize what a superpower it was.

Mel Robbins 45:52 Mmm. So, Jay, for the person who's listening, who's now scanning their life and thinking about what they're good at and they're coming up with nothing, what is your advice?

Jay Shetty 46:06 Here's my number one piece of advice. Pick three people from your past, could be a work colleague, a family member, and a friend. These are people that know you deeply that you would say know me really, really well. Not... Don't go and do this with anyone else. (laughs) Do this with people that know you really well, and just ask them, "What's something that I do that you always think of me when you're struggling with something?" Ask them, "What's something that I've done in the past for you or for anyone around us that made you go, 'Wow, that's really cool. That's, that's amazing'"? And then sit down and ask them, "When you're struggling with something, what do I help you do? What do I help you solve?" All of a sudden you get all this input from the people that know you the best because they see in you what you don't see in yourself.

Mel Robbins 46:55 Mmm.

Jay Shetty 46:56 We have to remember that. The people that know you and the people that love you, they see in you what you don't see in yourself. What you undervalue is what they deeply value. What you take for granted is what they see as greatness. What you kind of think is normal and average, they adore about you. But you've gotta let them tell you that. You've gotta let them remind you of that, because otherwise, you'll keep devaluing yourself.

Mel Robbins 47:21 You know what's interesting? Is that I remember, um, this was like two years before I started the podcast. (laughs) And I would literally listen, I- I still listen to your podcast, Jay, and watch your videos, and find so much inspiration from you. I didn't realize I kind of did that with you, because I was very stuck. I had reached a point where I was so tired of being on planes and doing the motivational speaking at corporate events, and even though I loved it, and I so wanted to get into the podcasting space. And I always know when I want something because, unlike you, who is a very, like, loving and positive person, my signs show up as jealousy. (laughs) Like, I don't have the monk version.

Jay Shetty 48:07 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:07 I have the Mel Robbins version of inspiration.

Jay Shetty 48:10 (laughs) Mmm.

Mel Robbins 48:10 It's sort of in that like, "Ahh," like agitation, right?

Jay Shetty 48:13 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:13 And so you have this incredible podcast, and I literally felt so jealous and excited for you, but jealous because I'm...... "Damn! Ugh!"

Jay Shetty 48:23 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:23 "Jay's doing it. That means I can't do it. And, you know, I, I, it's already done and since he's already doing, he does such a great job with On Purpose and the most perfect name and..." You know, there's like, like you kind of see it in somebody else. And you literally said to me, "Mel, you know what you should be doing? You real- when are you gonna launch a podcast?"

Jay Shetty 48:45 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 48:45 "Like, you would destroy it." And so you reflected to me the thing that you saw as the next thing that made the most sense. And so, I love that advice because the people who do know you well can see the things that you don't see in yourself or see the, the, the possibilities that you are actively holding yourself back from.

Jay Shetty 49:12 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:12 You know, one of the things that you've said that I also love is you said, "Weak people focus on others' weaknesses."

Jay Shetty 49:17 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 49:18 "Strong people focus on their strengths." Can you unpack that?

Jay Shetty 49:21 Yeah. It actually perfectly fits with what you just said. So, weak people notice other people's mistakes and laugh. Strong people notice other people's mistakes and learn. Weak people talk about other people's problems to feel better. Strong people talk about other people's problems to become better. Weak people gossip about others to build fake connections. Strong people express vulnerability to build real ones. And this one's the kicker that you were just talking about. Weak people envy people ahead of them. Strong people study people ahead of them. And the interesting thing is, both people are looking at the same thing, but they're seeing different things because no one is a weak or strong person, it's just what you focus on. And that's what I want people to realize. There's a switch. The switch for envy is study. If you're jealous of someone, if you're envious of someone, study them. And I know we've had so many conversations where we've both taught each other so much stuff. You've always been so kind to share so many insights and lessons. I know I've done the same with you. That's what we do. We study each other. And all of a sudden, that envy turns into appreciation, admiration, just complete awe because you're like, "Now I know what it takes," right?

Mel Robbins 50:52 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 50:52 I remember when I used to see Cristiano Ronaldo, who I'm a huge fan of, and I've been a fan of him ever since he was 17 years old. And so I must have been like 14 or something like that when I started following him. This is 20 years ago now you're talking about, more than that. And you look at him and you think, "Oh, my God. Like, look how he looks, look how he plays," everything else. The moment you start studying his routine, you realize what it actually takes. Someone can sit there and envy and jealous- be jealous of his life, which is natural by the way-

Mel Robbins 51:23 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 51:24 ... and I don't want to make that seem like a bad thing, but you turn jealousy into study. You turn envy into study, and all of a sudden it's your best friend. Envy can be your best friend if you just replace it for study.

Mel Robbins 51:36 100%.

Jay Shetty 51:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:37 I love that. And that's exactly what I did. The thing that's interesting is that... You know, the reason why I wanted to highlight that jealousy can be a useful tool.

Jay Shetty 51:46 Yes.

Mel Robbins 51:47 Jealousy, for me, is very different than envy because when I would look at you, I would never envy you like you don't deserve that.

Jay Shetty 51:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 51:55 Jealousy, for me, is this deep stirring-

Jay Shetty 51:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 51:59 ... because it's impossible to be jealous of something that's not meant for you.

Jay Shetty 52:04 Yes.

Mel Robbins 52:04 And so, I've never been jealous of anybody who drives a Lamborghini.

Jay Shetty 52:08 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 52:08 I've never been jealous of anybody that lives in a penthouse apartment.

Jay Shetty 52:12 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:12 I've never... You know what I'm saying? Like, I... Those... I don't want those things.

Jay Shetty 52:15 Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Mel Robbins 52:15 But there was something about the way that you took something that energizes you, learning-

Jay Shetty 52:20 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:20 ... connection, purpose, and you created a business that was in service to others around the things that energize you.

Jay Shetty 52:29 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:29 And that's what was, I think, ultimately the thing that was stirring something in me. And that's a super, super useful tool. But the other thing I wanted to validate is that the second I said, "I'm gonna walk toward this thing. I'm gonna figure this out," I spent two years studying you, talking to you, and that piece of, of allowing yourself... And it goes back to what you said about the experiment. Learn, reflect. And part of reflecting is experiment with something. I was a student for two years. There's a reason why we came out of the gate and launched two episodes a week. It's because I learned from you that if you do want to have a successful show, you have to do at least that many episodes. And so, the learning part and the studying others and allowing others to lead the way and to show you and to truly flip envy-

Jay Shetty 53:27 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:28 ... into learning-

Jay Shetty 53:30 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:30 ... from somebody, that is worth a hundred million dollars in your life to understand that everybody that is out in the world right now is somebody that you can learn from. It's just unbelievable.

Jay Shetty 53:44 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:44 And so, thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing that. And, you know, there's another quote that you have that I absolutely love, Jay. "We judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions." What does that mean?

Jay Shetty 53:57 This is something that, actually, my monk teachers used to repeat to us a lot. And it's a reality check that's a bit of a punch in the gut. So, we judge ourselves by our intentions, and we judge other people by their actions. So, if we feel our intention was good, we feel we're good people. But if someone has a bad action, we feel they're bad people.

Mel Robbins 54:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 54:22 Whereas what we should be doing...... is allowing other people to be judged also for their intentions and their actions. So it's a plea, a proposal, a pledge to say, "Before you judge someone, before you put someone in a box, please learn what their intention was." Because often you'll find that their intention probably wasn't as malicious as you think, it wasn't as manipulative as you think, it wasn't as crazy as you think. It was the same as yours. They too had good intentions. They also got into it with good intentions. But we judge ourselves by our intentions, so we think we're good people-

Mel Robbins 55:02 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 55:02 ... and we judge other people by their actions, and so we think they're bad people. If I made a mistake and you judge me for my action, all of a sudden you've labeled me, but my intention was so pure and so genuine. I'll give you an example of something that happened recently to me that I feel really, really applies to this.

Mel Robbins 55:22 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 55:23 And I was doing something with a friend, and we did a podcast together, and I was traveling on the road or whatever, and I didn't post something about it and my friend messaged me and was just feeling really upset-

Mel Robbins 55:45 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 55:45 ... that I hadn't supported them, that I hadn't noticed them, that I hadn't recognized them, and now we're really good friends, so they were able to vocalize it to me.

Mel Robbins 55:52 Right.

Jay Shetty 55:53 But if we weren't, they would have immediately judged and thought that I had some ulterior motive or some agenda, and the truth is, I'm so disconnected from my social media in the sense that I don't post, I'm not there. I'm, I'm on the road. I try and stay off my phone for most of the day. And all of a sudden, I was thinking, "Wait a minute. If they judge me for my action, it looks like I don't care about them. It looks like I don't value them. It looks like this isn't important to me." But my intention was, "I love you. You're one of my favorite people. I'm here to help you in whatever way possible." And I just think about the amount of friendships we'd save, the amount of relationships we'd save if we just learned to judge people for their intentions, not their actions.

Mel Robbins 56:34 Do you have, like, a little trick? 'Cause, 'cause my, like, emotions-

Jay Shetty 56:38 Yes.

Mel Robbins 56:38 ... and pettiness-

Jay Shetty 56:39 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 56:39 ... can just flood me. Like I, I've never had training as a monk, Jay-

Jay Shetty 56:44 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 56:44 ... so I would imagine, like, your sort of engine doesn't rev as high as mine, but it is so easy-

Jay Shetty 56:49 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:50 ... to see friends out-

Jay Shetty 56:51 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:52 ... together and then immediately judge them for their actions, that they're excluding you, that they must be talking about you, that now they're closer than you are to them, that it means something, it means you did something, and then of course you respond to all of that emotion. We are so fast to assume.

Jay Shetty 57:10 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 57:10 Is there anything that you do or that you recommend that people do?

Jay Shetty 57:15 Well, there's this thing, I don't know if you've heard of it, it's called the let them theory. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 57:19 (laughs) Jay.

Jay Shetty 57:21 Sorry, I had to. I had to. (laughs) I was waiting for you to... Uh, which is really good. There's, there's let them and then let me in it, and it works perfectly, which I genuinely believe. It's amazing. Um, but, um, to answer the, your question, I'll be honest with you. When it's people that I know, I tell them.

Mel Robbins 57:36 Hm.

Jay Shetty 57:38 I really believe it's important to tell people. I check in with them. I ask them. Because if I know you, our relationship, if our relationship means I can't ask you the question, then it's a weak relationship. If I ask you the question and we have a great conversation, now our relationship is strengthened by it. We actually got closer. A hard conversation should make you closer to the person.

Mel Robbins 58:03 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 58:04 A hard conversation should not make you further away from them.

Mel Robbins 58:07 Say that again, Jay.

Jay Shetty 58:09 If you love someone and they say they love you, a hard conversation should bring you closer together. A hard conversation should not push you away from each other. If you're scared to have a hard conversation with someone you love, that means you're not that close, because if-

Mel Robbins 58:27 Dude, right, I think that's, those are the hardest people to talk to though.

Jay Shetty 58:29 Yeah, but that should be the easiest person to talk to because you should be able to have a safe space to raise it. And so if I'm close to someone, if it was me and you, I would call you up and I actually trust we'd have a great conversation because of it. I know that. I actually believe that, if we ever had anything like that, which w- we haven't, and I would call you. But what I find is, if you can't call the person, I would just think about... This is the second part of that statement. My monk teachers would always say, "Instead of judging people by their actions, judge them by their intentions, and judge yourself by your actions, not your intentions."

Mel Robbins 59:07 Ooh.

Jay Shetty 59:08 Think about all the stupid things you've said, you've done, and got wrong, and all of a sudden you start to recognize, "Wait a minute, if someone judged me for that, I'd feel pretty bad about it. That doesn't define me. That's not who I am." And all of a sudden when you have that reflection, it flips the entire statement. "Wait a minute, that can't be who I am, and that's not who they are."

Mel Robbins 59:31 Amazing. Here's another thing that you said recently-

Jay Shetty 59:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:34 ... Jay, that I love. "Someone out there would love to live your worst day." What does that mean?

Jay Shetty 59:44 We're really quick to forget that the day we're living today is a day we dreamed of 10 years ago. Maybe not in a complete picture. Maybe you have the family you always wished for. Maybe you're on the career path that you've worked really hard for. Maybe you're sitting in the home that you couldn't even have imagined living in. But there's a part of your life that is exactly the life that you wanted. Not all of it, but there's a part of it. And when you forget that, you lose out on recognizing you're already living in the dream.... and that you already have the power to create that future dream because you've already done it once. So, you have to remember that where you are today is what you wanted yesterday. And what you want today, you can create tomorrow because you've already done it once. But we forget it so quickly. I have to remind myself all the time, Mel. I was driving to one of my friends' homes the other day.

Mel Robbins 1:00:51 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:52 And this is a friend that I used to grow up watching on television, watching their movies, listening to their music. And they've become one of my closest friends in life, and I had to pinch myself. Now, we've been friends for like seven years. I had to pinch myself to be like, "Do I know what I'm doing?" Like, can... I have to go back to being at the beginning of that journey because otherwise, you can take anything for granted. It's like you get to the top of a mountain after a long hike and you look at a view. You can get really familiar and bored of that view really, really quick-

Mel Robbins 1:01:26 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:27 ... unless you recognize the challenge it took, the steps you took, the person you saw on the way up. You have to sit there and remember all of that. But the memory does this weird thing where it just forgets it. As soon as you achieve something, you forget how you dreamt of achieving it. As soon as you get somewhere, you forget how once upon a time, you couldn't even imagine getting there. Where you are today is what you wanted yesterday, and don't forget how you got there, because that's the hidden secret of how you get to the next place.

Mel Robbins 1:02:03 How do you use gratitude-

Jay Shetty 1:02:05 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:02:06 ... to lift yourself up in a moment that is extraordinarily difficult? You know, you're grieving, you're in the middle of a breakup or a divorce, you've lost your job. Is there a way to use gratitude to lift yourself up when life just really has knocked you down?

Jay Shetty 1:02:24 When life's knocked you down, it's hard to be grateful for the good things in your life.

Mel Robbins 1:02:31 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:33 And it's sometimes bad advice because someone's just lost a marriage-

Mel Robbins 1:02:37 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:02:37 ... lost a family member-

Mel Robbins 1:02:39 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:02:39 ... whatever it may be.

Mel Robbins 1:02:40 So, there's the time for grieving, of course.

Jay Shetty 1:02:42 Absolutely.

Mel Robbins 1:02:42 And that's the mentally healthy response to have-

Jay Shetty 1:02:45 Totally.

Mel Robbins 1:02:45 ... the avalanche of emotions.

Jay Shetty 1:02:47 But if you're gonna be grateful, you sometimes have to do a counterintuitive practice. Instead of being grateful for what you have, think about how your life would be without something. I find that to be the greatest thing for gratitude. If I try and be grateful for something that I've had for a long time, I may get bored of it, I may be familiar with it. But if I ask myself, "What would my life be without that?" Oh, my gosh, all of a sudden, I'm so grateful. What would my life be without I... Have you ever had it where you just, like, hurt your little finger or, like, get a little cut, and now you can't use a finger or you can't use a thumb, and all of a sudden, you're like, "Oh, my God, I'm so grateful for my hand because what would my life be like without it?" This is the way we have to trick our mind. Humans are better at noticing something when it's about to go away. We always hear the phrase, "You don't know what you've got until it's gone."

Mel Robbins 1:03:39 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:03:40 So, we have to use that in our favor to think, not, "What do I have that I'm so grateful for? What could I not live without?"

Mel Robbins 1:03:46 That is life-changing. I've never actually thought about it like that. I, I was sitting there the moment you said it and I thought, "How would I feel if Jay wasn't in my life?" And I- I- I'm grateful for you, but the second I- I envision you, sorry Jay, evaporating and not knowing you as a friend, it's like it 10X'd. And- and even- even the example of, you know, you said the finger. Like, I- I- I was in the hotel the other night, and I was walking to the bathroom, of course. It's a 56-year-old woman at three o'clock in the morning, and I hit my toe on the bed frame. You ever gotten anything like, "Oh."

Jay Shetty 1:04:22 Oh. Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:04:22 And it feels like you've ripped it off your foot. It's amazing to me that my experience of that is, you know, screaming in agony and then thinking, "How can something so little hurt so much?" And your reframe is-

Jay Shetty 1:04:37 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:04:37 ... imagine my life without my foot, and the gratitude that floods you. I mean, that's incredible, Jay.

Jay Shetty 1:04:44 It's, it really works. It really works.

Mel Robbins 1:04:45 It really works.

Jay Shetty 1:04:46 And it's so simple. And, you know, we can, you can apply it to small and big things. But even I was thinking as you were saying friendship, I was thinking about our friend, Dave Hollis.

Mel Robbins 1:04:54 Oh, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:04:55 And, you know, it's... I know you spoke at his, um, funeral, and- and I sadly couldn't be there. But as I'm thinking about it, I'm like, "I was grateful for Dave." I actually had some really beautiful interactions with Dave.

Mel Robbins 1:05:06 Same.

Jay Shetty 1:05:07 I really did. He was a wonderful man. But it's only when you sadly lose someone that you really recognize, "Wait a minute, I can't call him again. I'm not gonna get a call from him again. I'm not gonna see him at our next get-together."

Mel Robbins 1:05:19 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:05:19 And then all of a sudden... And so, like, do that while people are here. And it's not a fear thing, it's a gratitude thing, right? It's not like I'm living in fear of, "What if I lose this person?" You're asking yourself, "What would my life be without this? Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad I have it. I'm so grateful I have it. I'm so lucky and fortunate I get to have this." That's what you're fueling your life with, not with fear.

Mel Robbins 1:05:42 I really... I- I wanna thank you for that because... especially that last part about you can actually kinda do things out of fear-

Jay Shetty 1:05:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:05:51 ... or you can have the fuel and the energizing source of it be gratitude. And I'll give you an example.

Jay Shetty 1:05:56 Please.

Mel Robbins 1:05:57 So, my dad is, uh, 80 years old, and I think a lot about the fact that if I'm lucky, I'm gonna get 10 more, maybe 15 more if I'm crazy lucky. Uh, holidays with him, birthdays with him. And I realize as I'm listening to you that I've been coming from this sense of fear because there's this sense like, "I gotta make the most of the time that I have while I have the time."

Jay Shetty 1:06:24 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:06:24 And I can take what you just shared...... and say, "I am so grateful that he's here-

Jay Shetty 1:06:31 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:06:32 ... that I want to make use of the time that I have while he's here." Which is a very different energy to ground yourself in.

Jay Shetty 1:06:42 You're so right, you're spot on. It's, it's this idea of having the full picture.

Mel Robbins 1:06:47 Mm. Talk more about that. What do you mean?

Jay Shetty 1:06:48 Yeah. And I wanna approach you from a really interesting take. And it comes from what we were talking about a few seconds ago around comparison. So, Mel, there's only really, apart from what we said about how to turn jealousy, which I love, there's really only one way to overcome comparison. And it's having the full picture of the person you compare yourself to. You've gotta know what's happening behind their perfect Instagram posts. Do you know how many times they cried themselves to sleep this week? Do you know the argument they just had with their mum last night? Do you know the challenge they're going through with their kids right now? Do you know about the family member who has an illness? All of a sudden when you actually get the full picture on someone's life, you now don't compare yourself to them, because you realize no one's life is perfect, they're just better at cropping out the pain. They're just better at editing out the parts that they don't want you to see. But when you see what someone's really going through, all of a sudden you won't compare it anymore, because you recognize everyone's going through something difficult.

Mel Robbins 1:08:01 Jay, another thing that you remind us all that I just love is that bad times reveal who the great people are in your life.

Jay Shetty 1:08:08 Do people show up for you when you're going through a bad day? Are people present for your good days but absent for your bad days? Do people turn up, call, check in when things are going wrong? Does someone see the best in you when you're your worst self? Does someone see the good in you when you might be having a bad day? That person is more special than anyone you'll ever meet. So keep them close. Don't run the risk of pushing them away, losing them, taking them for granted. Because one day you'll wish that they'll call and check in, and you might have lost them by then. So, the bad times in our life genuinely show us the great people, because it's at that point that you're hard to support, you're hard to love, you're hard to give energy to. It might not be popular to be your friend. Which, what does that prove? It proves that person values you-

Mel Robbins 1:09:21 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:09:22 ... more than popularity. It proves that person values you more than their reputation. It proves that that person values you more than all the stress. That is the most special person you'll ever meet. And everyone has at least one of them. But the problem is, we want attention from these people, so we lose affection from these people.

Mel Robbins 1:09:45 It's so true. You're really good at that. You're really good at showing up for your friends.

Jay Shetty 1:09:51 (sighs) It's because people have shown up for me. That's the reality of it. I'm good at showing up for people because people have shown up for me. And it's not always the same people. That's the mistake we make. We think that the people we show up for should be the people that show up back for us.

Mel Robbins 1:10:08 Oh, say more about that.

Jay Shetty 1:10:09 So we believe that when we show up for someone-

Mel Robbins 1:10:12 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:10:13 ... they should show up for us. We want people to love us in the same way we love them. But people won't love you the way you love them. And that's okay, because there's someone over here who's showing up for you, and you're missing out on them. There's someone over here who's turning up for you, who's checking in on you. I remember saying to my monk teacher, I said, "I feel like I give so much love to others." I said, "I feel like I show up so much for other people, but they don't show up for me. What do I do?" And he said, "Love is like a circle. Whatever love you give out will always come back to you, but it might just not be from those people you gave it to-

Mel Robbins 1:10:56 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:10:56 ... in the first place. But if you spend your whole life wondering why that person doesn't give you love back, you're ignoring all these people over here who give you love all the time. So turn around. Look around you. There is someone who's showing up for you, turning up for you, checking in with you, even when you don't acknowledge them. And start looking towards that person and giving them some respect."

Mel Robbins 1:11:21 I wanna dig deeper into that.

Jay Shetty 1:11:23 Yeah, please.

Mel Robbins 1:11:24 Because I feel like relationships have become extremely transactional.

Jay Shetty 1:11:32 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:11:32 If I check in on you, you gotta check in on me, that's the sign that you care. And I love what you just said, that there are gonna be times where you show up for people, and they're not gonna show up for you, either because they can't or they don't (laughs) know what's going on, or they got other things going on, or they're not actually the right person to support you right now. And them showing up feels more like a, is gonna feel more like a burden. And so maybe that's also, spiritually speaking, why they're not showing up.

Jay Shetty 1:12:01 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:12:02 And I love the fact that if you think about love like a circle and you show up because that's who you are, and in those moments when you need support, recognize that there actually are people around you trying to support you, or that are capable of it if you simply let them know that you need it. That's a completely different way to think about things, because we keep score in relationships-... and that if I'm the one that's always reaching out to my siblings, that if they don't reach back to me, that it means they don't care.

Jay Shetty 1:12:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:12:37 And sometimes, it actually just means that's not how they express their love.

Jay Shetty 1:12:43 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:12:44 And that the thing that you're seeking from them actually is gonna come from a friend, and if you're keeping score in your relationships, you're actually the one that's gonna destroy them.

Jay Shetty 1:12:57 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:12:58 Can you, like, dig into that with me, Jay?

Jay Shetty 1:13:00 Wow, that's powerful, Mel. I- I- I love what you're saying, and- and it's- it's so true. It's, um... The first thing we have to ask ourself is, "Did I show up for you, for you, or did I show up for you, for me?"

Mel Robbins 1:13:14 What do you mean?

Jay Shetty 1:13:15 If I'm showing up for you, for you, then I don't need you to show up back for me.

Mel Robbins 1:13:20 Mmm.

Jay Shetty 1:13:20 But if I showed up to prove to you that I showed up, now I need you to show up back for me to prove to me that I did the right thing. It's almost like an insecurity of, like, I'm doing it because I expect you to do it back, which is what you said at the beginning. It's transactional. If I do something for you, and I don't expect anything back, that's called love. If I do something for you and I expect it back, that's called a transaction. That's business. That's a contract. I don't wanna have a contract with someone I love, so why would I be measuring them based on how they do the exact same thing back for me? If you think about that, let's say, Mel, I organized your birthday party because I love organizing birthday parties. Does that mean you have to organize my birthday party to show me you love me equally? What if you didn't organize my birthday party but you called me when I had a really tough day at work, and you checked in with me and gave me some great wisdom and insight? Is that equal? Or actually, do I see that as not equal because you didn't spend seven days or seven months planning an event for me? Now, are we counting time or are we measuring emotion? How do you value two? I can't value you based on the hours you put into our friendship. Let's say that I was struggling something and you sent me a text, but when you were struggling, I called you up. Does that mean I care more about you or was that text just perfect for what I needed? We're measuring these very immeasurable things. Are we counting days, hours, months, emotions, laughs? W- what are you gonna keep a score on? And so I think we're keeping a score on things that you can't measure, and this is one of the limits I have with the love languages. I actually don't want you to love me the way I wanna be loved.

Mel Robbins 1:15:08 Wait, what do you mean by that?

Jay Shetty 1:15:10 I believe that if I want you to love me exactly the way I want to be loved, I'm actually limiting how much you can love me, because you have something to offer me that is different to what I even know I can receive. So if I say to you, "Mel, the only way you can show me love is gifts, because that's what blows my mind," that's great. I do like gifts, but guess what? What if your best way to offer love is acts of service? What if your best way of love is quality time?

Mel Robbins 1:15:42 Hm.

Jay Shetty 1:15:42 Now I'm gonna miss out on the greatness you have to offer me because I'm gonna say, "I only want you to give me this." What if you wanted to give me the world and I said, "Just give me a gift?" So I'm limiting (laughs) ... I'm limiting how much love. So when love matures... I think when love is young it's a great principle, but when love matures... I want... I... And by the way, me and Radhi have been through this. When I met Radhi, I was that guy. So I love gifts, and I had to do a lot of unpacking as to why I love gifts.

Mel Robbins 1:16:11 Why do you love gifts?

Jay Shetty 1:16:12 It's because my mum couldn't always be there for me on my birthday. We couldn't spend quality time. She was working. She was the breadwinner, but she always got me that one gift. I'd come home and the Power Ranger would be wrapped up there, and I'd unwrap it, and I'd have so much joy. So when I met Radhi... Radhi comes from a family where quality time is the gift. They don't really give each other gifts, which to me, when I first met her, I was like, "This is bizarre."

Mel Robbins 1:16:33 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:16:33 Like, "What is wrong with all of you?" And I wanted... This is ridiculous, but I remember the new iPad mini was out, and I'd kinda hinted to her that I wanted this iPad mini. Anyway, I unwrap my gift on my birthday, and it's an ASUS. I was like, "I wanted an iPad mini. Who gets someone an ASUS?"

Mel Robbins 1:16:53 (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:16:53 And... (laughs) And- and- and it sounds ridiculous, but I'm telling it 'cause of how- how ridiculous we can be. And she literally said to me... She was like, "Oh, no, but I asked my family, and they said this one's got better specs, and it's actually better than the iPad, and it's better resolution." I was like, "But I wanted the iPad." And I'm telling this story because Radhi and me learned, as our relationship developed, that Radhi had so many beautiful ways to show me love, and she turned up in so many amazing ways, but I would ignore all of them because I didn't get a gift on my birthday, or the gift I wanted on my birthday. And I think so many of us are ignoring the amazing ways our partners, our kids, our parents show up for us because they don't show up in exactly the way we want. And here's the point. No one will ever love you exactly how you want, because that's your job and that's God's job. We will wish, wait, want every single week, month, and year for someone to love us in a particular, exact way, and they will always fail us because that was your job. It was never theirs in the first place. That was God's job. It was never theirs in the first place. So open yourself up to the limitless love that people show up. Maybe your partner makes you coffee in the morning. Maybe they're the ones that make the bed. Maybe they're the one, when you're on the road, to check in with you and order something to your hotel room. Maybe they're the one that reminds you that you forgot your glasses or your wallet. Maybe they're the one that remembers to put the dishes away. Whatever it is, they're doing something, and it's love. They may not say, "I love you," it may not look like, "I love you," but it is.And by the way, when you tell them, "Hey, you didn't get me this one thing," or, "You didn't say this one thing," they're thinking, "How did you miss all of the other things?" And guess what? You discourage them from loving you. You don't encourage someone to love you by telling them you're disappointed. No one's gonna give you more because you made them feel bad. People love you more when they see you noticed all the little things they did, and all of a sudden they feel inspired to give you more.

Mel Robbins 1:19:06 Jay, um, it- it- it, um, it really, um, as I was listening to you, w- I was first of all thinking about what an asshole I am in my marriage, so thanks a lot, um. (laughs)

Jay Shetty 1:19:22 (laughs) We love you, Kris.

Mel Robbins 1:19:25 Um, 'cause I so saw myself, right? And then-

Jay Shetty 1:19:28 Me too, by the way.

Mel Robbins 1:19:29 Yeah, and then something extraordinary, uh, happened as I was listening to you, and that is... What a shame that most of us are so busy looking for the one way we expect to be loved that we miss all of the love that is around us and available to us that we don't let in. And what an opportunity to have a shift and really change the way that you see life, you see relationships, and what you open yourself up to. If there's one thing from that perspective, and what you learned about yourself, and what you learned about what's possible, that being loved the way you want to be loved is your job. It's God's job. It's the universe's job. It's not somebody else's job. And I would say learning how to allow in other people's expression of love is a huge opportunity for you, whether it's your friends, whether it's your parents, whether it's, you know, your kids, your partner,