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Dr. Gabor Maté: The Shocking Link Between ADHD, Addiction, Autoimmune Diseases, & Trauma

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — Today, Mel’s dream guest joins her in the Boston studios: Dr. Gabor Maté, MD. Dr. Maté is a world-renowned trauma expert, and shares things today unlike he has ever shared before. This wide-ranging conversation covers ADHD, autoimmune diseases, anxiety, addiction, people pleasing, and trauma. Dr. Maté will take you on a deep dive into how your early life experiences can shape the way you feel and function today, both mentally and physically. This episode is about unlocking real healing and finding hope. Dr. Maté’s compassionate insights will show you how understanding your past can free you to make healthier choices right now. You’re about to discover powerful, science-backed ways to understand and care for yourself in ways you never have before. So, whether you’re on this journey for yourself or to help someone you love, this episode is for you. Get Dr. Maté’s book The Myth of Normal: https://drgabormate.com/book/the-myth-of-normal/ For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page: http://www.melrobbins.com/podcasts/episode-235 Follow The Mel Robbins Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 0:00 Introduction 2:24 What world-renowned trauma expert, Dr. Gabor Maté, says about your childhood 5:56 The shocking things that are impacting every child’s brain development 10:22 Do you feel constantly stressed? Well, it’s rewiring your brain 14:22 Do you have a “sensitive kid” in your life? 18:40 So what’s actually happening when your kids act out? 20:12 Mel’s ADHD revelation at 46 that changed her life 23:36 Everything you thought you knew about addiction is wrong, here’s why 26:02 Turns out the attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain 32:40 Healing requires help! You don’t have to do it alone 38:40 Maté shares his own struggles with addiction, and what you can do to break the cycle 43:48 The 4 shocking traits driving autoimmune disorders in women 48:50 When was the last time you felt truly connected to yourself? 53:07 The 6 questions to ask yourself if you have a hard time saying “no” 59:53 You can heal! The actionable steps you need to take for lasting change — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Gabor Matéguest
Nov 21, 20241h 3mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:24

    Introduction

    1. MR

      Is it fair to say that your childhood and the conditions and the experiences that you have directly create or cause ADHD, addiction, and autoimmune issues?

    2. GM

      That's right. If you look at children in poverty or- or who experience racialized circumstances, they're more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. The children of women with postpartum depression are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. The children of women who are stressed during pregnancy are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. There's no parent blaming here, but we have to recognize the importance and impact of early experiences. The diagnosis doesn't explain anything.

    3. MR

      What do you mean the diagnosis doesn't mean anything?

    4. GM

      Don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain. And if you wanna understand the pain, look at the person's life rather than just their genes.

    5. MR

      Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so excited that you're here with me today. It is always an honor to be able to spend some time with you, to be together, to learn together. If you're brand new, I wanna take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Super excited that you're here. And because you chose to listen to this episode, I know something about you. You're the type of person who values your time and you're also in learning about simple ways that you can improve your own life, and I absolutely love that. And you know what I also love? I love that you and I are gonna get to spend time today learning from the extraordinary Dr. Gabor Maté. He's a world-renowned physician, a New York Times bestselling author, and a renowned addiction expert who dives deep into childhood development and the impact of physiological and psychological trauma, and how it shapes our mental and physical health over your lifetime. And today specifically, you and I are going to dive deep with Dr. Maté into how ADHD, people pleasing, addiction, your inability to say no, and autoimmune disorders are not things that you're born with. They were created by your childhood. So please help me welcome Dr. Gabor Maté to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

    6. GM

      Thank you.

    7. MR

      I'm really excited about the topic today and your work around how childhood conditions and experiences in your childhood are connected to ADHD, addiction, and autoimmune diseases and disorders.

    8. GM

      Mm-hmm.

  2. 2:24 – 5:56

    What world-renowned trauma expert, Dr. Gabor Maté, says about your childhood

    1. GM

    2. MR

      And I have so many questions I wanna ask you. Why don't we start with just your definition of what you're talking about when you mean childhood conditions, so that as the person is listening to us today and spending time with us together, we're all using the same words and concepts and we kinda start on the same page.

    3. GM

      So child conditions include the physical conditions, um, nutrition, housing, um, comfort, protection, but they also include the emotional conditions, which it has to do with, um, a child's sense of being accepted or being loved, or not just as loved, but actually being seen, understood. And also on a parent's emotional states. Um, are the parents stressed? Are the parents struggling with economic difficulties? Uh, are the parents carrying traumas that they hadn't worked through yet like I had when I was a young parent? Um, are the parents in a marriage that's relatively peaceful, or is there a lot of conflict? Is there a lot of instability? Is there unpredictability? What kind of community support there is? Is there an extended family that can spell off the parents and give them some kind of emotional support, or are they rather isolated? Are you a single parent struggling to make a living and raise a child? So all these conditions affect the personality and the brain development of the child.

    4. MR

      I know you wrote the original book on childhood development and ADHD, Scattered Minds, 25 years ago.

    5. GM

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      It is still on the bestseller list when it comes to ADHD topics.

    7. GM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      I don't know if I'm gonna say this correctly, but is it fair to say that your opinion is that your childhood and the conditions and the experiences that you have directly create or cause ADHD, addiction, and autoimmune issues?

    9. GM

      Yes, along with certain genetic predispositions.

    10. MR

      Okay.

    11. GM

      But I can talk about genetics later, but what I wanna say about them now is a predisposition is not as pre- same as a predetermination.

    12. MR

      Okay.

    13. GM

      So you can have predispositions, but then depending on the environmental conditions, those predispositions can be expressed one way or another way. So you can have animals with the same genes, or humans with the same genes that have very different outcomes depending on the kind of conditions under which their early years were spent under. So that's when I'm saying yes. And, um, and the first recognition of that in my life came when I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 53 or 52 or something.

    14. MR

      So I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 46.

    15. GM

      Okay.

    16. MR

      When our son, Oakley, was going through the process...

    17. GM

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      ... of going through neuropsych evaluations for schools and IEPs.

    19. GM

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      And as they were doing his evaluations, I started going, "Oh, wait a minute. That's not... That's a lot like me."

    21. GM

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      And then I went through the formal process of being evaluated and diagnosed, dyslexia, ADHD.

    23. GM

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      And I had never ever, ever heard anyone connect your childhood and adverse conditions or conditions where you didn't get your needs met...

    25. GM

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... being a contributing factor or a cause of ADHD. How is that

  3. 5:56 – 10:22

    The shocking things that are impacting every child’s brain development

    1. MR

      even possible?

    2. GM

      Well, it's possible because Western medicine...... separates the mind from the body.

    3. MR

      Hmm.

    4. GM

      So they tend to look at things purely from a biological point of view, so ADHD is considered to be a genetic disease that you inherited. Here's a problem with that. Number one, if that's the case, why are the numbers going up? Genes don't change in a population over 10, 20, or 30 years-

    5. MR

      Yeah.

    6. GM

      ... so something's going on in the environment that's affecting the child development, number one. Number two, even if you look at the physiology of the child's brain, what's not understood by most physicians, 'cause it's not taught in the medical schools, but is firmly and completely unequivocally and uncontroversially established in brain science is that the brain is a social product, that the brain development of the child depends on the emotional conditions under which the child lives from in utero onwards. And so that, um, the very circuitry of the child's brain, it's programmed by the action of the environment on the genes. So different environments will act differently on the same genes. Now, if you look at ADHD-

    7. MR

      Yes.

    8. GM

      ... what's the medication that we give? I took it for a while. Stimulants.

    9. MR

      Yeah.

    10. GM

      What do stimulants do? They elevate the level of a chemical called dopamine in the brain, and dopamine is essential for motivation, and therefore for focus. And that's what Ritalin and Dexedrine and Adderall and all these medications elevate. Now, the dopamine circuitry of the child's brain develops in interaction with the environment, and this is what most people who deal with ADHD just don't look at, even though it's just a pure scientific fact. You know, when... A summary from Harvard University pointed out that the child's brain develops in interaction with the environment, especially the emotional relationship with the nurturing adults. Now, dopamine is a brain chemical. We have receptors for them in our brain, and receptors are molecules where the dopamine can land and do its job. The number of dopamine receptors in a child is affected by stress on the mother already in pregnancy, let alone afterwards. If you take mice, um, and you isolate them, the number of dopamine receptors will go down. If you bring them back, back into companionship, the number of dopamine receptors re- elevate. In other words, the brain is a social organ. It's interactive with the environment all our lives, and therefore environmental conditions affect the brain, especially during its phase of early development. It's just pure science. It's not even controversial. So the problem here is the tendency of the medical profession, in which I was trained, is to separate the mind from the body and to look at brain biology in isolation from the life circumstances-

    11. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. GM

      ... that shaped that brain biology. So that's one problem here.

    13. MR

      So I'm gonna try to distill what you just said, 'cause I've never heard it explained quite like that, and I believe you.

    14. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MR

      What you're saying is that your brain is a social organ-

    16. GM

      That's right.

    17. MR

      ... that is developed in partnership with your relationship to the adults around you-

    18. GM

      Exactly.

    19. MR

      ... when you are a l- when you're literally inside your mother's womb-

    20. GM

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      ... all the way until you are, you know, developing as a little kid.

    22. GM

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      And if you are in a condition, whether it is the condition of being inside your mother's womb and your mother is depressed or-

    24. GM

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      ... experiencing racism or abuse or-

    26. GM

      Yeah.

    27. MR

      ... poverty, or any of these things that create chronic stress on a human being, it impacts the development of your brain.

    28. GM

      Exactly.

    29. MR

      And what you're also saying is that ADHD and the way that it is treated is typically through prescription drugs-

    30. GM

      That's right.

  4. 10:22 – 14:22

    Do you feel constantly stressed? Well, it’s rewiring your brain

    1. GM

    2. MR

      Can I ask you a quick question?

    3. GM

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      So I understand that when, as a human being, you're experiencing stress-

    5. GM

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      ... or you are experiencing a threat-

    7. GM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... or you're feeling isolated and lonely and like-

    9. GM

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      ... you're invisible or-

    11. GM

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... nobody cares about you-

    13. GM

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... that it switches between, that your body naturally switches from being present and in the prefrontal cortex to the amygdala taking over, and you're now in, like, fight or flight. When you're in fight or flight and you're kind of in that stress response state, does it interfere with dopamine?

    15. GM

      Uh, it interferes with dopamine. It interferes with, uh, cortisol. It has an effect on the memory centers in the brain, like the hippocampus.

    16. MR

      Hmm.

    17. GM

      Uh, it affects the amygdala, all those things. And, uh, if you look at children in poverty or, or who experience, um, racialized circumstances, they're more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. The children of women with postpartum depression are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. The children of women who were stressed during pregnancy are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD. And there's this myth about it being genetic because it tends to run in families. Like, you were diagnosed, your kids were diagnosed. I was diagnosed, couple of my kids were diagnosed. But it's not because the, the, this, the so-called disease... First of all, it's not even a disease. But it's not because the so-called disease was passed on, but because the conditions that created your-

    18. MR

      That created the brain.

    19. GM

      ... that created your brain were also then del- repeated in your children's childhood, as in mine. So something running in a family says nothing about genetic causation. And, uh...Going back to the flight or fight thing, if a child is feeling stressed... And by the way, I think there is something genetic here and what is genetic here is sensitivity. And the more sensitive kids are, the more they feel what's going on around them.

    20. MR

      Hmm.

    21. GM

      So, if the family... If the parents are stressed, the child feels the stress. Can the child escape or fight back?

    22. MR

      No.

    23. GM

      What do they do? They tune out. But when do they tune out? They tune out when their brain is developing. So, that gets wired into the brain. And now they're told, "You got this genetic disease." No, you don't. It's an adaptation that, uh, well, it began as an adaptation. And as with... And as with many of these childhood adaptations, later on they create problems. So, they serve their purpose, but now they are wired in and... You know, not to mention, if you look at the traits of ADHD, and which is the absentmindedness, the tuning out. And then the other traits of ADHD are poor impulse regulation, which means that when you wanna do something like... I might have an impulse to do something. There's nothing with, nothing wrong with the impulse, but there's something wrong with me acting out the impulse.

    24. MR

      Hmm.

    25. GM

      But impulse regulation depends on certain circuitry in the brain. No baby has any impulse regulation. It has to develop. For anything that's developmental, the conditions have to be right. If a plant in your backyard wasn't growing the way you expected it, you'd look at what's missing here. Nutrition, sunlight, irrigation. It's the same with kids. When they have got these challenges, let's look at the conditions that shaped their development. So, impulse regulation is another brain circuitry that doesn't develop well in people with ADHD, and incidentally, in people who are addicted, which is why there's such a great link between addictions and ADHD. And then the third one is, which is sometimes they're not always hyperactivity.

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. GM

      Uh, more tends to be had more in boys than-

    28. MR

      Boys, not girls. Yep.

    29. GM

      And regulation of the body is a function of the mid-frontal cortex. That has to develop. So, under conditions of stress, given that the brain is a social organ and it's also a historical organ,

  5. 14:22 – 18:40

    Do you have a “sensitive kid” in your life?

    1. GM

      I don't... Do you know that... Does the name Bruce Perry mean anything to you?

    2. MR

      Is he in Wisconsin?

    3. GM

      I don't know where he is, but he's a very well-known child trauma psychiatrist.

    4. MR

      Yes. He's... I believe he's in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, I think. But don't quote me on that. Did he write the book with Oprah Winfrey?

    5. GM

      Yeah, he wrote the book. What ha-

    6. MR

      Yes. Okay.

    7. GM

      What Happened to You? And he says the brain is a historical organ. So, it stores the impacts of life experiences. So, when we look at brain biology, let's not think that the biology is somehow distinct and separated from life experience. So, there's no fault laying here. And sometimes I do get accused of blaming parents. That's the last thing I wanna do.

    8. MR

      I don't hear you blaming parents.

    9. GM

      I, I know you don't, but, but-

    10. MR

      I hear you talking very factually.

    11. GM

      No, but, but it... But there's a very well-known ADHD psychologist who goes on YouTube and says I blame parents, and I don't. Actually, I think parents do their best. They love their kids, but their best is limited by their own particular challenges-

    12. MR

      Of course.

    13. GM

      ... and limitations. You know, there's no parent-blaming here, but we have to recognize the importance and impact of early experiences. So, what I'm saying is that ADHD is a result of all that stress and its impact on the brains of especially sensi-... Genetically sensitive kids. That's what inherited... That's what's inherited, is the sensitivity. But if, but if there was only the sensitivity and optimal conditions, they'd never have ADHD. So, it's not the ADHD that's inherited, it's the sensitivity. That's the good news. Because if, if you are a parent with a kid with ADHD, and if I was the doctor-

    14. MR

      Yep.

    15. GM

      ... and I said to you, "Ma'am, your child... Your kid's got this genetic, uh, condition, brain biology. Nothing we can do about it, but here's some medication." What if I said to you, uh, "Ma'am, you know, your, your child's got this condition. Your child's very sensitive, very responsive to the environment. And even now at age eight or age 16, or whenever, if we can create different conditions-

    16. MR

      Hmm.

    17. GM

      ... their brain can still develop in different ways." Which message would you rather go with?

    18. MR

      The second.

    19. GM

      Yeah, of course. This is a much more optimistic and much more science-based, um, attitude. But unfortunately, again, given the dominance of pharmaceutical companies and the biological-mindedness, or, or what they call biological psychiatry, which is just fixating on the biology and fixing it, rather than looking at the conditions that shaped the biology, we are very much stuck in a state where hundreds of thousands and millions of kids are being medicated. And which... And I'm not against medications. I prescribe them, I've taken them, but they're not the answer.

    20. MR

      What's fascinating is that when you really wrap your brain around it, it makes a lot of sense.

    21. GM

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      And I'm sure you're familiar with that metaphor. It's not the most elegant metaphor, that the genetics loads the gun-

    23. GM

      Yeah. It's the environment.

    24. MR

      ... but the environment that pulls the trigger.

    25. GM

      Exactly. Exactly.

    26. MR

      Which means you come into this world predisposed to certain things-

    27. GM

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      ... but it's the environment that either deactivates or activates what you're predisposed to.

    29. GM

      Exactly.

    30. MR

      So, that makes perfect sense. And the other thing that makes perfect sense, in terms of my lived experience-

  6. 18:40 – 20:12

    So what’s actually happening when your kids act out?

    1. MR

      address these conditions.

    2. GM

      Absolutely. And so when a family with, uh, ADHD child would come to me, once I had this recognition, I would say, "Well, we could consider medication in the short term if we need to, but it's not the first step. It's never should be the only step. Can we look at the family atmosphere?"

    3. MR

      Hmm.

    4. GM

      "Can we look at the relationship between the parents? Can we look at the stresses on the family? Can you understand the child's behavior in a way that doesn't blame the child?"

    5. MR

      Hmm.

    6. GM

      Because these kids tend to be blamed a lot for how they behave. Now, we talk about this phrase, "acting out." Kids are acting out, which usually means they're being obstreperous, oppositional, defiant, or non-cooperative, or rude or something.

    7. MR

      It means they're not doing what the parent wants them to do.

    8. GM

      Yeah, yeah. But let's look at the phrase acting out, its English meaning. We act something out when we don't have the language to say it in words.

    9. MR

      Hmm.

    10. GM

      So, in the game of charades, we're not allowed to speak, what do you have to do?

    11. MR

      Act it out.

    12. GM

      You have to act it... These kids' behaviors are simply acting out their emotional needs and dynamics. It's up to the parents to understand that. Rather than just to respond or react to the behavior in a controlling or punitive way, let's understand what is being acted out, which is one of the reasons I wrote that book, is I want parents to understand what is being acted out in his child's behavior. And if you change the relationship to the child, the child's behavior will change. So it's not behavioral control, it's actually promoting different conditions that'll support the child's healthy

  7. 20:12 – 23:36

    Mel’s ADHD revelation at 46 that changed her life

    1. GM

      development.

    2. MR

      You know, this reminds me of something that's always really just made me feel very heartbroken about the state-

    3. GM

      Hmm.

    4. MR

      ... of society and the world, particularly in the-

    5. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MR

      ... United States, and that is when I was going through this experience where my husband and I were having our son-

    7. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      ... go through the process of all the evaluations, the school kept saying, "This is behavioral, behavioral." And we were like, "I don't think so. I don't think so."

    9. GM

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      And so we were in a position to be able to have him tested here in Boston-

    11. GM

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... at Mass General-

    13. GM

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... outside the school.

    15. GM

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      And just three years prior, we would not have been able to afford to do that.

    17. GM

      I understand.

    18. MR

      And that diagnosis and understanding that his brain and the way that he learned and the development of his brain was just different-

    19. GM

      That's right.

    20. MR

      ... and changed the trajectory of his life and my life.

    21. GM

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      And before I did what I do now, my, earlier in my career, I was a public defender in Manhattan-

    23. GM

      Yeah, I read that.

    24. MR

      ... doing criminal defense work.

    25. GM

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      The statistics of people who are incarcerated-

    27. GM

      Yeah. With ADHD?

    28. MR

      Yes, with ADHD, with learning differences, who were never diagnosed-

    29. GM

      That's right.

    30. MR

      ... who, when you trace it back to what you're saying-

  8. 23:36 – 26:02

    Everything you thought you knew about addiction is wrong, here’s why

    1. MR

      a lot of sense. You know, you mentioned addiction-

    2. GM

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... and there is a lot of research that shows a direct link between ADHD and addiction.

    4. GM

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      And what does your research and experience show about your childhood experience and conditions-

    6. GM

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... and the connection to addiction?

    8. GM

      So, for 12 years, I worked in Vancouver, British Columbia's Downtown Eastside, which is North America's most concentrated area of drug use. We have more drug users there in a few square block radius than anywhere in the States or anywhere else in Canada, in fact, anywhere in Europe.

    9. MR

      Wow.

    10. GM

      And so I was there for 12 years. And, um......a significant percentage of my patients clearly had ADHD that had not been diagnosed. Now, let's look at the commonalities. First of all, both addicts and people with ADHD lack impulse control. Like somebody said about addiction is that the problem is not free will, not lack of free... No. The problem is, in addiction, it's not lack of free will, but lack of a free won't.

    11. MR

      Lack of a free?

    12. GM

      Won't.

    13. MR

      Won't? Oh.

    14. GM

      They have nothing to say no with-

    15. MR

      Hmm.

    16. GM

      ...because that circuitry didn't develop.

    17. MR

      Hmm.

    18. GM

      Okay, number one. Number two, addictions all work on the dopamine system, which is what is affected in ADHD as well. So stimulant addicts, like crystal meth addicts, cocaine addicts, um, nicotine addicts, um, caffeine addicts, they're literally boosting their dopamine levels, which is precisely what's the issue in ADHDs as well. So if you look at the studies, something like a good 30% or more of stimulant addicts actually are diagnosable with ADHD. But again, this is, this is studied and reported, but not much is done with it in medical practice. Furthermore, all addictions, no matter what they are, they work on the dopamine circuitry, so that... I will define addiction for you-

    19. MR

      Okay.

    20. GM

      ...as manifested in any behavior in which a person finds temporary relief or pleasure, and therefore craves, but then suffers negative consequences as a result of, and doesn't give up, despite the harm. So craving, pleasure, relief in the short term, harm, inability to give it up. That's what an addiction is. Now,

  9. 26:02 – 32:40

    Turns out the attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain

    1. GM

      let me just go sideways a little bit.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. GM

      Let me ask you a question.

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. GM

      And you already answered it, but according to that, notice I didn't say anything about drugs. I said any behavior.

    6. MR

      Yep.

    7. GM

      Now, if I speak to a room of a thousand people, and I give that definition, and I say, "According to that definition, which is not controversial, if you ever had an addictive pattern in your life, just raise your hand," and out of a thousand, 999-

    8. MR

      (laughs) Yes.

    9. GM

      ...will raise their hands, and there's one liar who won't, you know. But basically, it's almost everybody. Now, here's a second question. And I don't care what your addictive patterns were, whether, whether they were to alcohol, which you mentioned, um, or to whatever else. Not what was wrong with it, but what was right about it? What did it give you in the short term that you wanted? So what did it give you?

    10. MR

      Oh, well, with alcohol, it was like a sense of belonging and relief, and it was a way to turn my brain off.

    11. GM

      Okay.

    12. MR

      And to escape.

    13. GM

      Okay. When do people need to escape?

    14. MR

      When they're stressed.

    15. GM

      When they're suffering.

    16. MR

      Yeah.

    17. GM

      Okay. So the addiction wasn't a disease that you had. It wasn't your primary problem. It was an attempt to solve the problem of emotional pain and isolation. So my mantra on addiction is, don't ask why the addiction, ask why the pain. And if you want to understand the pain, look at the person's life, rather than just their genes. Okay? And so both people who are addicted and people with ADHD often share these genes for sensitivity, which means they suffer more-

    18. MR

      Hmm.

    19. GM

      ...when circumstances aren't right. And so they're both more... Obviously, those conditions will go together. So, and furthermore, to go back to dopamine, the shopping addict, the gambling addict, the pornography addict.

    20. MR

      The social media addict.

    21. GM

      The social media, and I've had my behavior addictions.

    22. MR

      The gaming addiction-

    23. GM

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ...addict.

    25. GM

      The internet.

    26. MR

      The busyness.

    27. GM

      You know what they're after? They're after a hit of dopamine in the brain, which they get through seeking that behavior.

    28. MR

      And then you feel bad, though, that you did it.

    29. GM

      Well, yeah, and I had my behavior addictions. But what I'm saying is, it's all based partly on the dopamine circuitry. And every-

    30. MR

      Which didn't develop-

  10. 32:40 – 38:40

    Healing requires help! You don’t have to do it alone

    1. GM

      believe.

    2. MR

      The reason why this is so important is because there is so much shame and self-blame-

    3. GM

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      ... when you have an addiction-

    5. GM

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      ... or you have something that you're struggling with, like ADHD.

    7. GM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      And when you understand the brain circuitry and the connection to brain development and human development and childhood conditions and experiences and how that has a direct impact-

    9. GM

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      ... on the working and wiring of the-

    11. GM

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... functioning of your brain-

    13. GM

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... you can separate yourself as a human being-

    15. GM

      That's right.

    16. MR

      ... from the thing that caused this.

    17. GM

      That's the whole point.

    18. MR

      And then that allows you, from that moment of separation and detachment and objectivity, to go, "Oh, wait a minute-"

    19. GM

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      "... I'm not to blame for this."

    21. GM

      That's right.

    22. MR

      "This is a circuitry and a conditioning problem."

    23. GM

      It's my responsibility-

    24. MR

      "And now it's my responsibility-"

    25. GM

      Exactly, yeah.

    26. MR

      "... to do what I need to do with this-"

    27. GM

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      "... to heal it and make it better."

    29. GM

      Exactly right. And, and to go back to your question about now what do we do with this information, if your parents, if you are parents of a child who's been diagnosed with, say, ADHD-

    30. MR

      Mm-hmm.

  11. 38:40 – 43:48

    Maté shares his own struggles with addiction, and what you can do to break the cycle

    1. MR

      You know, in your book, Hungry Ghosts, you mention your own struggles-

    2. GM

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... with addictions to praise, even to classical music.

    4. GM

      Not to the music, sorry. To shopping for classical music.

    5. MR

      Oh.

    6. GM

      There's a distinction.

    7. MR

      Yes.

    8. GM

      I love the music, but that doesn't make me an addict, that just makes me a music lover. It's the shopping. I would drop $3,000 in a music store and go back two hours later 'cause I had, 'cause I had to get the next one. Typical addictive behavior. So, it's the, it's the shopping that I was addicted to. It's the, not the having, but to the acquisition.

    9. MR

      Mm.

    10. GM

      And that's, and you know what? When I was in the classical music store, I had no ADHD. I had high dopamine levels, I was focused. I can almost remember which record did I buy in which store, you know, or which CD did I... So, so, just to make the distinction, it's not the music, it's the shopping I was addicted to.

    11. MR

      I love that distinction, 'cause I can relate to it.

    12. GM

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      I think in the biggest moments of crisis in my life-

    14. GM

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      ... like facing bankruptcy-

    16. GM

      Yeah.

    17. MR

      ... literally about to lose it all, if I had a tiny bit of money-

    18. GM

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      ... I would go to the mall-

    20. GM

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      ... as an escape.

    22. GM

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      And I would say given that daily addiction-

    24. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    25. MR

      ... whether it's the mom pouring a couple glasses of wine at night-

    26. GM

      Yeah, yeah.

    27. MR

      ... or it is just scrolling for three hours-

    28. GM

      That's right.

    29. MR

      ... or it is mindlessly shopping, or whatever it may be-

    30. GM

      Yeah.

  12. 43:48 – 48:50

    The 4 shocking traits driving autoimmune disorders in women

    1. GM

    2. MR

      One of the things that you're talking a lot about is the connection between childhood conditions and experiences.

    3. GM

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      How they shape you, and the significant rise in autoimmune disorders and diseases in women.

    5. GM

      S- you know, there are 80% of people, 80% of autoimmune disease, which are diseases where the immune system attacks the body that it's supposed to protect.

    6. MR

      And can you... guess, what are a few examples of an autoimmune disease?

    7. GM

      Multiple sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus, probably fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, forms of psoriasis, um, autoimmune eczema, um, and scleroderma.

    8. MR

      Hm.

    9. GM

      I could go on and on. There's about 100 or so of these, and 80% of them happen to women.

    10. MR

      Why?

    11. GM

      Well, so in my medical practice, I began to notice... and here's my advantage over my specialist colleagues, is that they know a lot more about certain body parts and systems, as they should, but they don't know the patient. I knew people before they got sick.

    12. MR

      Hm.

    13. GM

      And I knew them in their context of their families of origin and the mo- and, and, and the extended family very often. So, I got to see who got sick and who didn't. And when I was in palliative care, again, I saw who ended up in palliative care and who didn't. And these people had four significant characteristics. One is, they tended to put other people's emotional needs ahead of their own, and they tended to ignore their own. Number one. Number two, they tended to identify with rule, duty, role, and responsibility, rather than the needs of the self.

    14. MR

      Hm.

    15. GM

      Number three, they tended to be very nice, which means they repressed healthy anger. Their healthy anger is a boundary defense. And these people tended to, people tended to be very nice. And number four, these people tended to believe that they're responsible for how other people feel, which is a point that you address in your book, Let Them.

    16. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. GM

      And that they were... th- they had this belief that they must never disappoint anybody.

    18. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    19. GM

      Now, those, um, beliefs lead you into not saying no to the demands of the world, and you're constantly taking on stuff and stress and other people's stress. You get stressed. That stress undermines the immune system, which then turns against you. Now, in this... and I could explain the physiology of it. And by the way, people... because the immune system and the hormonal apparatus and the nervous system and the emotional system are one system. They're not separate. They're wired together in a whole lot of chemical and neurological ways. I'm not making this up. This is science. Science is called psychoneuroimmunology. The psychology and neurology, immunology-

    20. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    21. GM

      ... and endocrinology, the hormones. It's all one system. People that repress healthy anger, they are suppressing their immune system, biologically. Now, if you understand that it's all one system, and if you ask why, well, what is the role of healthy anger? It's a boundary defense. What is the role of the immune system? It's a boundary defense. It's meant to let in what is good and nurturing-

    22. MR

      Hm.

    23. GM

      ... and keep out what is toxic and dangerous. When you're suppressing your emotions, you're also messing with your m- sys- immune system 'cause it's all one system.

    24. MR

      It's almost like you're training your immune system not to protect you from the outside.

    25. GM

      That's what happens, and, uh, or to turn against you. Like, like, anger that you repress turns against you in the form of depression or self-loathing.

    26. MR

      The same way that your negative thoughts, where you think you're to blame-

    27. GM

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      ... for all of the stuff going on when you're a child-

    29. GM

      Yeah, yeah.

    30. MR

      ... that are not your responsibility, turns into the negative self-talk that's aimed against you.

  13. 48:50 – 53:07

    When was the last time you felt truly connected to yourself?

    1. GM

      by the way, again, are we blaming people here? No, we're not, 'cause we have to look at what happened here. What happened here is the child is born with all these emotions wired into their brains. The child has two big needs here, the need for attachment, for belonging, for being held, for being accepted, supported, and so on. That's a need that you have. It's non-negotiable. Without it as an infant, as a young child, you cannot-

    2. MR

      You die.

    3. GM

      ... you die. Yeah. So, that's one need. But you have another need as well, which I call authenticity. Which means being connected to your emotions and your gut feelings.

    4. MR

      Hmm.

    5. GM

      Now, in any audience, when I ask people, "Have you had the experience of having a strong gut feeling about something, ignoring it, and being sorry afterwards?" Most people put their hands up. You probably would. Now, gut feelings were programmed into us by evolution. We evolved out in nature. For millions of years, hundreds of thousands of years, we lived out in nature. How long does any creature in nature survive if they don't pay attention to their gut feelings?

    6. MR

      Uh, not until the end of the day. (laughs)

    7. GM

      Yes.

    8. MR

      You're a g- you're a goner.

    9. GM

      Uh, at this point. So we have these two need, attachment and authenticity-

    10. MR

      Hmm.

    11. GM

      ... being connected to ourselves. Now, if the child gets the message that they're being authentic with their emotions and so on, they're not acceptable to the environment, guess what get be the contest between our-

    12. MR

      Oh, your gut f- you get trained to not trust your instincts.

    13. GM

      Yeah. And you're trained to disconnect, and you're trained to push down your feelings. So we give up our authenticity-

    14. MR

      Hmm.

    15. GM

      ... for the sake of attachment. Now in your book, there's an example of this guy who's about to get married.

    16. MR

      Yes.

    17. GM

      And he's got all these misgivings.

    18. MR

      Yes.

    19. GM

      And then he's afraid of what everybody else will think.

    20. MR

      Yes.

    21. GM

      And you tell, and you, and you're wishing he would say no to the wedding.

    22. MR

      Yes.

    23. GM

      You know, what's going on? He's stuck in this tension between attachment, which is a need to be acceptable, and authenticity, being himself. Women are caught in that trap in this society. So are many men, of course. It's not just a gender issue, but overwhelmingly, it's women who have to choose the attachment of being acceptable over authenticity. That's why they have much more autoimmune disease.

    24. MR

      Wow. And often, I'd say for a lot of us, we choose attachment rather than staying connected to ourselves.

    25. GM

      That's the whole point. As ch- as a child, you had no choice. But the question is, as an adult, can we develop that choice? Do I have to keep choosing the attachment over the authenticity? And I'm telling you, I know people with... I just finished leading a workshop at Kripalu nearby here. Two women came up to me and said, "Reading your book, When the Body Says No, cured my MS."

    26. MR

      So-

    27. GM

      "Be- be- because I began to say no." Now, I know so many examples of that, and not only I, other doctors as well.

    28. MR

      Well, you also hear doctors say that all of these autoimmune dis-

    29. GM

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      ... disorders, diseases, whatever you wanna call them, flare up in moments of stress-

  14. 53:07 – 59:53

    The 6 questions to ask yourself if you have a hard time saying “no”

    1. GM

      of that.

    2. MR

      How can someone find the root cause of the emotional pain or the, like how do you begin the process of healing? And because you've now painted this landscape that helps us really understand the connection between-

    3. GM

      Yeah.

    4. MR

      ... childhood experiences and conditioning-

    5. GM

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      ... how that shapes your body, your brain function, your physiology, your immune system, and how continued environmental stress and continued abandonment of self for the sake of being accepted-

    7. GM

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... to other pe- by other people.

    9. GM

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      When you see all this, it's incredibly empowering.

    11. GM

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      What is one step that you would want someone to take if they're having an awakening or they've been sent this episode by somebody who loves them and they're like, "This is me"?

    13. GM

      Okay. So let's take one example.

    14. MR

      'Kay.

    15. GM

      A very simple one. Prior to your awakening and transformational journey, um, that you undertook s- undertook some time in your 40s.

    16. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    17. GM

      Um, how easy did you find it to say no to other people's expectations?

    18. MR

      Oh, I couldn't.

    19. GM

      Okay. So you couldn't say no?

    20. MR

      No.

    21. GM

      All right. So I ask people this question. Where in your life do you have difficulty saying no? Uh, uh, it shows up in two areas, work and in personal life.

    22. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    23. GM

      Okay? So you couldn't say no. The second question I ask people then is, what was the impact on you of your difficulty saying no?

    24. MR

      It's exhausting. I-

    25. GM

      Hmm. Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... uh, don't like my own behavior.

    27. GM

      Yeah. So it's this shame.

    28. MR

      Lack of control.

    29. GM

      Lack of con- loss of control. Loss of control, by the way-

    30. MR

      Anger.

  15. 59:53 – 1:03:20

    You can heal! The actionable steps you need to take for lasting change

    1. GM

      (laughs)

    2. MR

      Gabor Maté. Wow. Any final things you wanna say?

    3. GM

      Everybody's got the capacity to heal. As long as there's consciousness, there's the capacity to heal. And, um, for some people it's tougher 'cause they don't have the resources.

    4. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. GM

      But, you know, you can go on YouTube, lots of my talks are on YouTube. People have told me that it's changed their lives for the better. Doesn't cost a penny. And, and not just my talks, by the way. Talks by other wonderful teachers, um, some of my colleagues, some spiritual teachers. Um, that doesn't cost any money to watch that. You can take books out of the library. That doesn't cost a penny and they can be very helpful. You can, um, learn to meditate and be with yourself and observe your mind. That can be very helpful. There's free meditation instruction on, on, uh, on the line, or in, in many books. Um, those people that can afford therapy, if it's the right kinda therapy-

    6. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. GM

      ... they can address these issues. Um-They can connect with nature. Nature's got a huge healing capacity, as our indigenous people really know. We can learn a lot from them about connecting-

    8. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. GM

      ... with nature. Those people that have the capacity to get out of the city, and, or even go to a park and connect with the plants and the trees and the flowers. Uh, that sounds hokey, but it's hugely healing. Um, exercise, uh, giving your body what it needs, eating the proper food if you can afford it. And most people can, may not be able to afford the best foods, but they could probably afford to eat better than they do if they paid attention to themselves.

    10. MR

      Yeah.

    11. GM

      So, all those things are not inaccessible. So, in other words, healing is possible, it's available to all of us, and it just takes the decision to embark on that path.

    12. MR

      Well, you've empowered us to make the decision today.

    13. GM

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      Thank you. Thank you.

    15. GM

      Okay.

    16. MR

      Thank you.

    17. GM

      Oh, thank you.

    18. MR

      It's amazing to spend time with you.

    19. GM

      Yeah, thanks.

    20. MR

      There are so many people that I wanna share this episode with. I feel empowered and excited for you. And so, I just wanna thank you for listening all the way to the end and sharing this with people that you love. And I also wanted to be sure to tell you, in case no one else tells you, that I love you, and I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And listening to this today is certainly going to help you take the steps to create it. And I will be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'll see you there. And I just wanna acknowledge you on YouTube for watching all the way to the end. This was extraordinary, wasn't it? I mean, I wish I had had this information 25 years ago, but I am so grateful that you have this information and I have this information now. So, thank you for sharing it, thank you for watching all the way to the end, and thank you for hitting subscribe. It's my goal that 50% of the people that watch this channel are subscribers, because it supports the show, it tells our team that you love the content we're putting out, and it helps us bring you new videos every single day. And speaking of new videos, I'm sure you're thinking, "Oh my gosh, I loved this. What should I watch next, Mel?" You should check this out. You're gonna absolutely love it, it's the perfect thing to watch, and I'm gonna be waiting for you as soon as you hit play.

Episode duration: 1:03:21

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