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Dr. Gina Poe: How To Get Better Sleep And Boost Your Learning, Memory & Energy | Mel Robbins Podcast

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — Are you getting the sleep you need? Do you wish you could improve your sleep, but you’re not sure how? Dr. Gina Poe is an accomplished researcher and trained neuroscientist with a PhD in basic sleep. Currently a professor at UCLA, Dr. Poe has been researching the functions of #sleep for over 30 years and has authored nearly 200 publications on the topic. Today, Dr. Poe is here to answer your questions like, Why do you sleep? What is your brain doing as you sleep? What is REM sleep? What are sleep cycles? What are circadian rhythms? And perhaps most importantly, you’ll get 5 research-backed recommendations from Dr. Poe on how anyone, including you, can not only improve their sleep but also get a “perfect” night’s sleep, as defined by a neuroscientist. In this conversation, Dr. Poe discusses topics such as: What is the “perfect night's sleep”? How long are you supposed to sleep every night? What is a sleep cycle, and why should you care? What is N1 sleep? What is N2 sleep? What is N3 sleep? What is paradoxical sleep and how can you tell someone’s in that state? What REM sleep really is and how often we must be in it The physiological and neurological difference between being awake and asleep What a neurotransmitter is and how it changes composition when asleep What the functions of our brain’s two hemispheres are How sleep cleans the brain The connection between sleep and neuroplasticity The link between sleep and brain health The scientific reason why they call it “falling” asleep How sleep directly affects longevity and vitality Why you don’t remember your dreams How sleep impacts how we learn during the day What happens to your body and brain when you close your eyes at night The one phase of sleep you cannot miss A neuroscientist's top 5 recommendations for better sleep What the purpose of vasodilation is Which hours of sleep are absolutely critical for memory processing How many hours of sleep you really need for optimal functioning Why a consistent bedtime is the start of the best sleep of your life --- Follow Dr. Poe: Instagram: instagram.com/poe.gina Webpage: bri.ucla.edu/people/gina-poe-ph-d/ Watch the episodes on YouTube: https://bit.ly/45OWCNr My book! ‘High 5 Habit’, here: https://a.co/d/g1DQ8Pt Follow me: The Mel Robbins Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast/ --- This podcast is presented for educational and entertainment purposes. I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 00:00 Intro 03:40 Why the heck do we even need sleep? 04:40 The difference in our brain between sleep and wakefulness. 06:37 A perfect night’s sleep looks like this. 14:11 Your brain cleans itself during this stage. 15:54 REM is not just a rock band; this is where your dreams happen. 23:29 The ideal number of sleep cycles you should have per night. 25:03 The first half of your sleep vs. the second half. 27:31 Good sleep habits can help your body heal from mental trauma. 29:14 Here’s how to help reset your circadian rhythm. 32:20 A consistent bedtime will produce this important hormone. 35:29 How does a bath before bed help with sleep? 37:34 The sleep routine for the world’s top sleep researcher. Wait…what? 40:39 Here’s my top 3 tips for getting a great night’s sleep. What’s yours? #sleephack #sleeping — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. Gina Poeguest
Nov 2, 202341mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:40

    Intro

    1. MR

      (ticking clock) (intense music) So, you're one of the most renowned sleep researchers in the world. What is your sleep routine?

    2. GP

      (laughs) That's a great question.

    3. MR

      Can you explain why we sleep and why it's so important?

    4. GP

      Sleep is great for the immune system, it's great for cognition, it's great for the emotional system, it's great for growth and repair.

    5. MR

      Who knew sleeping was so complicated?

    6. GP

      (laughs)

    7. MR

      (upbeat music) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. Today, you and I are gonna learn all about the science of sleep from one of the world's leading neuroscientists and researchers. I'm talking about UCLA's Doctor Gina Pau. And before I jump into her credentials and everything that we're gonna cover, I just wanna thank you. Thank you for being here, because when you're here with me, I know it's not about me, it's about you. You listen because you wanna learn, you wanna feel inspired, and you're investing time in yourself right now. And I don't take that lightly, because I love you for being interested in improving your life. I mean, that's why I'm here too, so I'm proud of both of us. And today, we have a private class with one of the most renowned experts and researchers in the science of sleep. Doctor Gina Pau is here. Now, Doctor Pau is a neuroscientist at UCLA. She's been studying the science of sleep for 30 years. Her lab has done pioneering research. Right now, she's looking to the connection of sleep and healing mental illness. Doctor Pau is gonna cover the fundamentals today, and questions like, why do you sleep? What is your brain doing as you sleep? What is REM sleep? What are sleep cycles and how many do you need? If you've been hearing about circadian rhythms, she is gonna break it down and explain what they are and why they matter, and you're gonna leave with five recommendations from Doctor Pau's extraordinary research, recommendations on how anyone, including you, can improve your sleep. And if you're sitting there thinking, "Ugh, Mel? Sleep? This sounds like a snoozefest. I think I'm gonna skip this one," don't you dare, because I thought I knew what I needed to know about sleep too, and then I started preparing for this episode. I learned so many things that I didn't know but you and I need to know, we should know. I'm talking profound, profound information about how sleep is critical for your memory, for neuroplasticity, for locking in new habits, for creativity, for healing, for so much more. This is one of the fundamental pillars for better health and for a better life. And so, that's why I'm excited, that's why I'm glad that you're here. Class is in session, sleep is on the docket, and guess what? The amazing Doctor Gina Pau, she's not only smart, she's super in demand. This woman is hot off a plane because she's been lecturing at conferences all over Europe, but she is here right now for you and for me. So, Doctor Gina Pau, I am so excited to be here with you. So, with that introduction, I gotta tell you on YouTube, I'm so excited that you are here because class is in session, sleep is on the docket, and I'm gonna throw this to the, uh, studios in Los Angeles, because we recorded this in LA because Doctor Gina Pau had been all over Europe lecturing about sleep, and she had flown back to LA and jumped right in the studio for you and me. So, without further ado, let's go.

    8. GP

      Thanks so much for having me.

    9. MR

      I am so thrilled that you're here, and I wanna start off with what might sound like a really stupid question.

    10. GP

      I'm sure not.

    11. MR

      Can you explain

  2. 3:40 – 4:40

    Why the heck do we even need sleep?

    1. MR

      why we sleep and why it's so important?

    2. GP

      (sighs) It's a great question, actually, not stupid at all. It's something that we've been looking for an answer to for the last 50 years, probably 70 years, and, um, or actually longer than that.

    3. MR

      Wow.

    4. GP

      But it's not, um, it's not easy to come up with an answer because there are so many answers. There's so many things happening during sleep that can't happen at any other time, that new answers keep bubbling up. So, sleep is great for the immune system, it's great for cognition, it's great for the emotional system, it's great for growth and repair.

    5. MR

      What is the difference between being awake and being asleep? Like, is there a, like, a physiological or neurological-

    6. GP

      Yes.

    7. MR

      ... def- like, difference between the two?

    8. GP

      Yeah, it's huge, actually. Um, so when we fall unconscious and into sleep, neurotransmitters, chemicals in our brain, completely change

  3. 4:40 – 6:37

    The difference in our brain between sleep and wakefulness.

    1. GP

      the, their composition. So, there's a set of neurotransmitters that are, uh, associated with wakefulness and being able to attend to the environment, have conversations, think thoughts, and they just completely switch when we fall asleep. So, that one main one, which is called acetylcholine, which is really important for attention to the environment, switches off, and that's very cond- um, characteristic of non-REM sleep, which is the first states we normally go into when we fall asleep. So, acetylcholine turns off in animals that sleep unihemispherically.

    2. MR

      What? Okay, that's a big word.

    3. GP

      (laughs)

    4. MR

      What is unihemi- femi- I can't even say the thing.

    5. GP

      (laughs)

    6. MR

      Hemi- he- seriously?

    7. GP

      Yes, unihemispherically means one hemisphere at a time. We have two hemispheres in our brain and, um, each hemisphere controls half of our body and, um, so the right hemisphere controls the left half of our body. So, one hemisphere, uh, of the brain is asleep and the other hemisphere is awake, and the hemisphere that's asleep switches off the a- attention acetylcholine, um, neurotransmitter, the chemical, but your brain is doing all kinds of essential things that can't be done during wakefulness. It's another, quote unquote, "work time." It feels quite different than waking work-Um, then you can justify, "Hey, I need this. I'm gonna feel better. I'm gonna be able to tackle my next day better."

    8. MR

      Never even occurred to me that it goes way beyond rest-

    9. GP

      Yeah.

    10. MR

      ... because what we're about to learn today, is there's all these really critical health and mind heal- like, functions-

    11. GP

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... that can only happen-

    13. GP

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... when part of the brain is in sleep mode. Is that right?

    15. GP

      That's right. Absolutely.

    16. MR

      Holy cow. So, why don't we start with, um, what the perfect night's sleep, based on your 30 years of research-

    17. GP

      Right.

    18. MR

      ... what does a perfect night's sleep look like?

    19. GP

      Right.

    20. MR

      Just so we have a benchmark

  4. 6:37 – 14:11

    A perfect night’s sleep looks like this.

    1. MR

      for what would be ideal.

    2. GP

      I think if you just look at a 10-year-old, you'll get what the perfect night's sleep look like, looks like. They sleep beautifully. They have a beautiful homeostatic, which means, um, it responds to what you're doing during the day response and how long you've been awake. They have a beautiful circadian, which means, uh, their body knows what time of day it is and what time they should go to sleep, um, and what time they should wake up. And so, the 10-year-old's sleep is perfect. Don't ever wake up a 10-year-old if you can possibly help it. Uh, they're doing a lot of really important things. And, um, after that, our sleep changes during our teenage years, and we need just as much sleep as a 10-year-old, which is about 10 hours or nine or eight, eight to 10 hours for sure. But teen- uh, teenagers' circadian rhythms change a little bit so that they fall asleep a little later and want to wake up a little later. So, um, it's also a beautiful night's sleep if, if they are calm and, um, not too engaged with social media (laughs) at the wrong times. But, um, but anyway, that's a great night's sleep. It's, our sleep is actually pretty great until we're about 40 or 50 years old and then varying depend on the individual, your sleep can start to become less efficient and so-

    3. MR

      What does a perfect night's sleep look like in terms of how long you sleep, the various phases of sleep?

    4. GP

      Right. Okay. So, the perfect night's sleep for health-

    5. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    6. GP

      ... um, as an adult is something around pl- seven and a half, eight hours, plus or minus an hour, something like that.

    7. MR

      Okay.

    8. GP

      You should be awakened by the sunlight essentially, so that's something that resets our clock every day. And, um, and then, so you kind of work back from there, from the time you need to awaken to get at least seven and a half, eight hours of sleep a night. Um, different people need different amounts of sleep. Some people need more like nine, some people are fine with six for a while.

    9. MR

      How do you know?

    10. GP

      You just have to know from your own body. (laughs) Some people, if they get six hours of sleep, they know already immediately when they wake up and going throughout the day, it wasn't enough. And so your body will tell you. Um, so, and other people, uh, you know, wake up at six hours and they're fine. They're, they feel great. And, and one way to know is how sleepy you feel during the day.

    11. MR

      Okay.

    12. GP

      Yeah.

    13. MR

      You already said one takeaway that I want to make sure that you listening got from us, which is you start with the time that you want to wake up.

    14. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MR

      And then you roll the clock backwards-

    16. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MR

      ... and you're basically saying that it's seven to eight hours, give or take an hour.

    18. GP

      Yeah.

    19. MR

      So you roll the clock backwards, probably seven to nine hours.

    20. GP

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      And that's when you need to fall asleep.

    22. GP

      Mm-hmm. That's right.

    23. MR

      And what happens when you fall asleep? Like, what are the phases that we go through as we're sleeping?

    24. GP

      Right. The very first stage is, of course, dozing and, um, we don't really know when we're dozing except that, you know, we sort of come conscious once in a while and say, "Oh, wow. Okay, what happened in the last couple minutes? I don't know." Because our memory starts, um, not recording our, what we've been doing and that lasts, on average, about two minutes before... For example, if you're reading a book-

    25. MR

      Yeah.

    26. GP

      ... and you fall asleep reading the book, you won't remember the last two minutes of reading or if you're listening to a podcast, you won't remember the last few minutes of the podcast before you actually fall asleep.

    27. MR

      Or if I was talking to my husband and next thing you know he's snoring.

    28. GP

      Right. (laughs)

    29. MR

      He doesn't remember the last minute and a half of what I said. (laughs)

    30. GP

      (laughs) That's exactly... Exactly.

  5. 14:11 – 15:54

    Your brain cleans itself during this stage.

    1. GP

    2. MR

      ... when you're in that third phase and the wave is happening?

    3. GP

      Yeah, yeah. So that's, um, a time when we know that our brain is cleaning itself actually.

    4. MR

      Wait, what?

    5. GP

      Yes. (laughs)

    6. MR

      It's cleaning itself?

    7. GP

      Yeah, it's cleaning itself. Like-

    8. MR

      Of what?

    9. GP

      ... uh, of all the junk that builds up during the daytime when we're awake and alert, um-

    10. MR

      What kind of junk builds up?

    11. GP

      Well, proteins get unfolded and, um, yeah, so, uh, things break down, energy is used. All of that gets restored in that deep slee- state of sleep, so, um-

    12. MR

      Huh. What would happen if you didn't get that deep stage of sleep and the wave, the cleaning wave-

    13. GP

      Mm-hmm, the cleaning wave.

    14. MR

      ... I'm seeing like somebody coming in after-

    15. GP

      Yeah. (laughs)

    16. MR

      ... a big party and cleaning up all the cups.

    17. GP

      That's right. (laughs)

    18. MR

      It's like this wave comes through your brain?

    19. GP

      It's like a wave cleansing the brain, yes, and it come, there's one per minute or so, actually one per second actually. So a lot more often than that, and it sweeps from front to back, um, and it just pushes all the junk into your cerebral spinal fluid and out into your body.

    20. MR

      Is that why my back hurts? (laughs)

    21. GP

      (laughs) No, I don't think so, but yeah. (laughs)

    22. MR

      I'm just kidding. (laughs)

    23. GP

      That's a good question. Um, yeah, so if you don't get it, you actually don't get a chance to clean your brain like that, so you really need it, um, and that's the sleep you get mostly in the first half of the night after you fall asleep. So you go from N1 to N2 to N3, N3 lasts, you know, 20 to 30 minutes or so, and then you go back into N2 briefly, and then into REM sleep which is, um, it's, it's called REM sleep. And, uh-

    24. MR

      How is that different than the wave? So...

    25. GP

      It's, it's very different. It's

  6. 15:54 – 23:29

    REM is not just a rock band; this is where your dreams happen.

    1. GP

      actually also called paradoxical sleep because if you look at brain activity, it looks just like someone's awake, um-

    2. MR

      Really? Why?

    3. GP

      And thoughts are going through and, um, dreams are happening. It's really strong imagery in your dreams and, um, that's when, if you wake someone up out of that state of REM sleep, they will always report a dream, you know, 90, 90% of the time. Even people who if you ask, say, "Oh, I never dream," or, "I never remember my dreams," if you wake them up out of that stage, they'll remember. It's the reason why people, I think the reason why people don't remember their dreams is because they are solidly asleep and don't wake up out of that state. So, um, don't worry, you do, you are dreaming. (laughs)

    4. MR

      What, what is your brain doing?

    5. GP

      When you're dreaming?

    6. MR

      Yeah, in that REM stage.

    7. GP

      Yeah. You, yeah, you are, um, well, first of all, you're creating dreams. It's also important for the process of creativity and for, um, changing your mind. It's actually an extremely plastic state, so it's paradoxical because electrically it looks like wakefulness, but chemically it's very different. Um, so two of the neurochemicals that are off during dream state are two neurochemicals that keep you attuned to things that are novel and that are coming in from the outside world, um, and help you learn from things in the outside world, and those are norepinephrine and serotonin. They are off during REM sleep, so you instead, you're intuned, attuned internally to internal thoughts and internal images and so you can actually build your own schema from the things that you learned during the day that are now registered in your brain. It's not a time for new learning, it's not a time for listening to new podcasts and getting that information in, it's a time to assimilate the things that you've already learned into coherent patterns that make sense.

    8. MR

      I wanna see if I can give that back to you-

    9. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      ... to make sure that you listening-

    11. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... are tracking because I just had a big, like, whoa, aha kind of moment here. So-You said that the first four hours of sleep-

    13. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... are critical for creativity, and I've also, I think, read in your, in your research that it's also critical for the making of memories.

    15. GP

      Yeah. Yeah, for the assimilation of memories, I guess.

    16. MR

      What is the, what is the difference between-

    17. GP

      Making a memory.

    18. MR

      ... making and assimilation of memories?

    19. GP

      So, so making memories requires, um, us to pay attention to things in the outside world-

    20. MR

      Mm.

    21. GP

      ... and put them together, and assimilating means you've taken those things from the outside world and now you're putting them together into packets cal- we call schema, which are related in- pieces of information. And it's good for creativity because, um, these new pieces of information get as- assimilated into different schema in ways that we can't do when we're awake.

    22. MR

      Okay, I'm-

    23. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      I think I'm actually getting this.

    25. GP

      Okay.

    26. MR

      You're basically saying that neuroplasticity isn't happening when we're learning. The neuroplasticity is happening when we're sleeping.

    27. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      There's that saying in the exercise world that your abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym, because of food being medicine, and what you're basically saying is habits are made in your bedroom while you're sleeping-

    29. GP

      Yeah.

    30. MR

      ... not while you're out in your life living, because that's when your brain locks in all the learning that you did today. That's so freaking cool. The chemicals, or I don't know if that's the right word.

  7. 23:29 – 25:03

    The ideal number of sleep cycles you should have per night.

    1. GP

      four, five, six and a half, seven hours of sleep. Something like that. The first sleep cycle is a little longer than 90 minutes, um, probably because that N3 state is a little longer and you don't have as much of it in the later part, the last half of the night, you don't have nearly as much N3 sleep. So if you miss the first half of the night, you'll miss most of that N3 sleep, which is the cleaning stage. So you don't wanna miss that first half. (laughs)

    2. MR

      Um, how would you miss the first half?

    3. GP

      Oh, staying up too late, you know? Staying up three hours later than you normally do. If you go to bed at 11:00 and now you're, it's 2:00 in the morning and you're falling asleep, you'll get lots of that REM sleep, but you won't get near as much, if at all, any of that cleaning state.

    4. MR

      Okay, hold on. Now I'm confused.

    5. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MR

      Okay. Because I thought that...If you fall asleep-

    7. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      ... that's like, let's just say the clock's at zero-

    9. GP

      Mm.

    10. MR

      ... you fall asleep, whether it's at 9:00 at night-

    11. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      ... or 1:00 in the morning.

    13. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      That's hour zero?

    15. GP

      Hmm. No.

    16. MR

      No?

    17. GP

      Uh-uh.

    18. MR

      Wait, what?

    19. GP

      (laughs) Your body knows what time it is of day it is, so your body knows the difference between 9:00 at night and 2:00 in the morning, um, and-

    20. MR

      So if you chronically go to bed late-

    21. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      ... your brain is jumping to the second half of sleep?

    23. GP

      No. Okay-

    24. MR

      How would it... Like, 'cause I don't understand how you would miss-

    25. GP

      Right.

    26. MR

      ... the, the wa- the, the wave coming through and cleaning your brain out-

    27. GP

      Right.

    28. MR

      ... if it typically happens in the first...

    29. GP

      So, if you go to bed at, late chronically and wake up-

    30. MR

      Yes.

  8. 25:03 – 27:31

    The first half of your sleep vs. the second half.

    1. GP

    2. MR

      Yes.

    3. GP

      ... then your body says, "Okay..." It's, it's aligned with your wake-up time. It's actually, what it aligns with best is the light that you're exposed to during the day.

    4. MR

      Okay. What is the s- purpose of the second half?

    5. GP

      The second half is for, I like to think of it as more creative, its creative-

    6. MR

      Hmm.

    7. GP

      ... part. It's emotional resolution and creative, um, building of new, new schema or, um... So, yeah, so the first half of the night is, let's do a little correction, it's more for kind of locking in, like you said, um, strengthening and sealing the things that you learned during the day. But the second half of the night, or REM sleep more like, every REM cycle, um, is more for building new schema and, and making new connections and changing your mind and resolving the emotional, um, aspects of your memory. So, for example, um, if you remember a painful event, whether it's emotionally painful or physically painful, that happened a year ago or 10 years ago, you will want to remember that because it's adaptive and it's good to have those memories, but you won't want to recall, when you're remembering the event, the actual pain.

    8. MR

      Hmm.

    9. GP

      You don't want to feel the pain again, either emotional pain or physical pain. Um, that's not adaptive. You don't need-

    10. MR

      Yes.

    11. GP

      ... that part of it. And so, um, in our research right now that we're doing, uh, in collaboration with, uh, a few other laboratories, we're discovering that it is that REM sleep period, espe- specifically the REM sleep period, and you get much more of it in the second half of the night, that helps to separate out the novelty and the immediacy and the physical reality of the emotions of those memories from the facts, the semantic facts that you put together that you can recall for, for the rest of your life, and that's what happens normally. But people who have insomnia, and they don't have good quality of REM sleep, their norepinephrine or noradrenaline is too active-

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. GP

      ... because they're too anxious, um, while they sleep, then they don't have that distancing from the immediacy and the saliency and the sense that

  9. 27:31 – 29:14

    Good sleep habits can help your body heal from mental trauma.

    1. GP

      it just happened today. Um, so that's, that's what we're looking into right now.

    2. MR

      That's really profound-

    3. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MR

      ... and exciting in terms of that kind of insight, because if you think about it, I would imagine it's also applicable to somebody that has a lot of trauma?

    5. GP

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      Um-

    7. GP

      It is.

    8. MR

      ... somebody that, uh, has a lot of chronic pain?

    9. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      That all of that is a very real, lived, stored experience in your body-

    11. GP

      Yeah.

    12. MR

      ... and if your brain is not able-

    13. GP

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      ... to get that seven to nine hours of sleep-

    15. GP

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    16. MR

      ... where it can do all of this functioning for health and a mindset, a neuroplas-... I mean-

    17. GP

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      ... I think the implications of that, 'cause what you're basically saying is that having good sleep habits and consistent sleep habits actually can help you heal.

    19. GP

      Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

    20. MR

      Not only can help you, but it's necessary-

    21. GP

      It's necessary. Yeah.

    22. MR

      ... to heal.

    23. GP

      It's necessary to heal.

    24. MR

      Could you explain what the circadian rhythm is-

    25. GP

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      ... to us?

    27. GP

      Right. So, it, every cell in our body has a clock in it, and these clocks are aligned by a master clock in our brain called the s- suprachiasmatic nucleus, SCN for short, and that nucleus is, um, reset every day by light coming in through our eyes.

    28. MR

      And, and i- is our clock running on a 24-hour cycle, or-

    29. GP

      Roughly. Roughly. And that's why it needs to be reset every day, because everybody's clock is a little bit... The, the period is a little different and-

    30. MR

      And how do you-

  10. 29:14 – 32:20

    Here’s how to help reset your circadian rhythm.

    1. MR

    2. GP

      Know what you're-

    3. MR

      ... intentionally reset this internal circadian rhythm?

    4. GP

      Yeah. Well, there are many ways. I t- I talk about light. That's the strongest one.

    5. MR

      Okay.

    6. GP

      Bright light in the morning, and, and so that tells, that tells you time zero.

    7. MR

      Oh. So-

    8. GP

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      ... when you wake up in the morning-

    10. GP

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      ... whether it's raining or it's cloudy-

    12. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    13. MR

      ... or it's a bright, sunny day-

    14. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MR

      ... that is... The clock hits zero in terms of your brain going, "Okay, the day has started"?

    16. GP

      Yeah. So you really do need to control your light exposure, um, to make sure your timekeeper sets it to the world that you need it to be.

    17. MR

      So if you were to use this research around circadian rhythms-

    18. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      ... to improve your sleep, how would I go about figuring out what's the first thing I need to do in the morning-

    20. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      ... to reset my clock to, you know, now-

    22. GP

      Yeah.

    23. MR

      ... to start training myself to get a better night sleep?

    24. GP

      Yeah. If you wanna reset your clock so that you're up, say, at 6:00 in the morning or whenever the sun comes up, get outside and expose yourself to that sun. Eat your breakfast and, and then do the same with lunch and do the same with dinner. Um, don't expose yourself to bright light at night, especially blue light. If you expose yourself to a lot of the strong blue light at night, then your circadian system will say, "Wait a minute. Is it morning time? I guess it's morning time," and will shift you forward.

    25. MR

      Did everybody hear that? So there are some very free and, and specific steps there.

    26. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      Which is get some bright light exposure, and I take it even a cloudy or rainy day is gonna suffice.

    28. GP

      Yeah. So much brighter than indoor light.

    29. MR

      Okay.

    30. GP

      Even if you had a day.

  11. 32:20 – 35:29

    A consistent bedtime will produce this important hormone.

    1. MR

    2. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      And a growth hormone that gets released-

    4. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... and, um, why is that connected to a consistent bedtime?

    6. GP

      Right. Well, growth hormone is the thing that helps you repair your muscles, build proteins, um, involved in consolidating your memories, and, um, just rebuilding damaged parts of your body. That, um, gets released in little spurts, if anything, all day long and while you're awake, but when you go to sleep and your circadian system is aligned, in other words, you're going to sleep at the right time relative to your clock, um, which means that melatonin is being released. Melatonin and growth hormone together gets the release of growth hormone to be ten times higher than it is, um, when you're awake. So-

    7. MR

      Huh.

    8. GP

      ... it's a big spurt of growth hormone that can do things that little spurts can't do.

    9. MR

      What does the growth hormone do?

    10. GP

      Growth hormone helps you build proteins. Um, all those amino acids that you eat during the day need to be built into proteins and proteins that get broken down during the day when we're, uh, and misfolded, um, can get built back up, uh, during, during sleep. And it's really only sleep. If you delay sleep, uh, so that it's past the time when your melatonin surge is going, then the growth hormone surge can't be nearly as big.

    11. MR

      You know what question I'm about to ask next, right?

    12. GP

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. (laughs)

    13. MR

      Does a melatonin supplement help spike that?

    14. GP

      Uh...

    15. MR

      Like, is that a way or not really or...

    16. GP

      We don't know, actually. We don't know, but I, I, I doubt it, um, because it's not just melatonin. There's a lot of other things that are happening simultaneously with that melatonin and, and it signals other parts of your body. The other thing about melatonin supplements is that they're not re- regulated by the FDA, so in any one melatonin supple- supplement, there may be zero melatonin or there might be ten times what you need. It can actually help all of the processes that happen normally in the first few hours of sleep.

    17. MR

      I am fascinated by this.

    18. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      And I start to see how now the inconsistent bedtime-

    20. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      ... now is also screwing up-

    22. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    23. MR

      ... the signaling.

    24. GP

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      Like, imagine, like, I think about it this way. When our three kids were little, they had a bednight routine.

    26. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      Same bedtime, the same routine. We're winding down, we're picking up the toys, we're saying good night-

    28. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      ... we're going up for the bath.

    30. GP

      Mm-hmm.

  12. 35:29 – 37:34

    How does a bath before bed help with sleep?

    1. GP

    2. MR

      Yes, I take one every night.

    3. GP

      Yeah, it really helps you sleep better, um-

    4. MR

      Why?

    5. GP

      (laughs) It's thought to be because you are warming, um, your periphery and vasodilating your hands and feet because they're nice and warm.

    6. MR

      Whoa, that sounds sexy.

    7. GP

      (laughs)

    8. MR

      Vasodilating. That's what I'm gonna say to Chris. Chris, I'm gonna go vasodilate-

    9. GP

      (laughs)

    10. MR

      ... my hands and feet-

    11. GP

      Right.

    12. MR

      ... in a hot bath, honey.

    13. GP

      Right, yes. Um, and (laughs) , and vasodilation is good because what that does is it then helps cool your core, which is something that happens as you fall asleep. The core of your body cools by half a degree, something like that, and people get the best night's sleep if they can have warm hands and feet out there exposed to the air helping to cool your core. So that's great. Also to have a great night's sleep, exercise during the day. Our bodies are made to exercise, they are made to move, and if we get a good time of exercise where our blood is racing and our hearts are pounding and our, um, breathing is deep, then for some reason, we don't know exactly why, it might be due to adenosine buildup-

    14. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. GP

      ... or needing growth hormone and the signals your body gives you that says, "We need to repair ourselves," it gives you a really wonderful night's sleep. So those two things are beautiful.

    16. MR

      A bath and exercise.

    17. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      You heard it here, a bright light in the morning-

    19. GP

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... and a consistent bedtime, those four things that you are giving everybody for free-

    21. GP

      (laughs)

    22. MR

      ... based on decades and decades of research.

    23. GP

      Yep, and not too much caffeine too late. (laughs)

    24. MR

      Oh, yeah, that's right, that's number five.

    25. GP

      Yes.

    26. MR

      Not too much caffeine, everybody.

    27. GP

      (laughs) Yeah.

    28. MR

      Thank you for explaining that, Dr. Poe. And one of the things that I love as I listen to you is I'm realizing you're designed to sleep well. Like, this is part of your hard-wiring, your natural intelligence, your DNA. You run on a circadian rhythm, and sleep is a critical function. So, this is something that we can all learn how to do better.

    29. GP

      Yeah, that's right.

    30. MR

      Right?

  13. 37:34 – 40:39

    The sleep routine for the world’s top sleep researcher. Wait…what?

    1. MR

      uh, most renowned sleep researchers in the world. What is your sleep routine? What time do you go to bed? Like, when do you stop looking? Like, kinda-

    2. GP

      Yeah.

    3. MR

      ... walk us through your evening.

    4. GP

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      You've had dinner, then what do you do for your optimal sleep?

    6. GP

      (laughs) That's a great question. Um, so sometimes I have to work after dinner, in the evening.

    7. MR

      Okay.

    8. GP

      But, um, the best time for me to go to sleep is around 11:00 or 10:30 at night, and, um, so if I put, can put away my work, um, by an hour before that, that's the best time for me. Take a shower. Uh, that would be amazing and usually good, and, um, and then, in bed, what works great for me is either just prayer and, uh, relaxation, deep breathing, or, um, I can distract my racing brain with a really dumb little game on my phone with my phone set to non-blue-

    9. MR

      Wait, I'm like-

    10. GP

      ... light. (laughs)

    11. MR

      ... h- wait, wait, did- did- did the sleep researcher just tell me she's playing a game-

    12. GP

      (laughs)

    13. MR

      ... on her phone?

    14. GP

      Right, but I turn off the blue light.

    15. MR

      I feel like I need to delete this.

    16. GP

      (laughs) I, it's a dimmer screen and it's non-blue light.

    17. MR

      Oh, see now you look embarrassed that you're actually si... I, I'm proud-

    18. GP

      Yeah, I

    19. NA

      Yeah, no, no.

    20. MR

      ... know, everybody was just like, "She's normal."

    21. GP

      (laughs)

    22. MR

      Thank God, thank God.

    23. GP

      I play a game called-

    24. MR

      How do you block the thing on the...

    25. GP

      On, the blue light? Oh, it's-

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. GP

      ... it's a setting on my phone, just, uh, you know, you can take away-

    28. MR

      Oh my gosh.

    29. GP

      ... the blue light.

    30. MR

      Okay.

  14. 40:39 – 41:39

    Here’s my top 3 tips for getting a great night’s sleep. What’s yours?

    1. MR

      reset the circadian rhythm. It's made a huge difference. Second, get serious about going to bed earlier. The happier I am, the more successful I am, I notice the earlier I am in bed at night and the more I prioritize my sleep. And third, I, I'm hanging my hat on the bath. I'll tell you what, just like I would train my kids to go to sleep, I take a bath or a shower at night. It is part of the routine, and so I want you to find three things that you're gonna implement based on what you just learned from the renowned researcher, Dr. Gina Poe. And of course, let me know. Let me know how it's working for you, and one more thing, in case no one else tells you, I wanna be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to apply all this science to make your life a little better. And in the meantime, I'll talk to you in a few days. If you love this, I want you to go here about how to hack your hormones for better sleep. Let's just continue the sleep train. Mwah!

Episode duration: 41:39

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