How to Create the Life You Want: Lessons From the #1 Happiness Researcher

Dr. Judith Joseph 0:00 Everyone has a different idea about happiness.

Narrator 0:01 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 0:02 But many people, when they think of happiness, they're thinking about, "I have this house, I have this car, I have this partner, I have this perfect job. I feel complete." Once you get those things, the science shows that you're still not happy, you're still looking for more things. There are five pathways to happiness. The first, validation. We invalidate how we feel all of the time, we don't acknowledge our stress. We say, "I'm fine, I'm okay." The second V is venting. We need to let out our pressure, we need to let off steam, literally, right? The third is values. Having that self-reflection and thinking about what you truly value, what brings you purpose and meaning. The fourth is vitals. How many bodies did God give you? One. And what do we have to do with it? Take care of it. The fifth is ...

Mel Robbins 0:47 (clock ticking) Hey, it's your friend Mel. I am so happy that you're here, because I love the topic and I love who we're gonna get to spend time with together. And you know who else I love spending time with together? You. It's always an honor to be able to spend this time and learn with you and laugh with you. And if you're brand new, I just wanna welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. You have picked one heck of a winner of a conversation to listen to, because what's more important than your happiness? Not a whole lot else. And the fact that you hit play, you know what that tells me about you? It tells me that you're interested in learning more about ways that you can improve your life and be happier and you also love research. I love that, because I love that too. And today, I'm bringing you a conversation that's not just inspiring, it's transformational. Today, in our Boston studios, you're gonna get to meet and spend time with the incredible Doctor Judith Joseph. Now, Doctor Judith is a double board certified psychiatrist. She earned her medical degree and MBA, and completed her residency at Columbia University, where she now serves as the chairwoman of the Women in Medicine Board, and she also went to do her fellowship at NYU, where she's been a professor for over a decade. Her cutting-edge research has earned her national recognition, including a US Congress and House of Representatives Proclamation Award for her advocacy in mental health and her innovative research. She is also at the cutting edge of medical research. She's the founder and principal investigator at Manhattan Behavioral Medicine, where she and her team have conducted over 60 clinical research trials, including leading the trial for the first ever FDA approved drug for post-partum depression. Isn't that amazing? Well, that's just the beginning. Doctor Judith's mission aligns perfectly with the mission of the Mel Robbins Podcast, which is to make life-changing information accessible to everyone, in your life, in my life. That's what we're doing here, and why I'm so excited is because through her latest brand new Happy Lab research, she's been working to uncover what she says are the five things based on research that are gonna make you thrive, and today she is revealing them to you, so let's dive in. Please help me welcome the extraordinary Doctor Judith Joseph to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Dr. Judith Joseph 3:05 Mel, I'm so happy to be here.

Mel Robbins 3:07 Well, I can't wait to jump into the topic and to all of your brand new research, and I wanna start by asking you, could you just speak directly to the person that's here with us right now and listening, and share with them what is it that they might experience differently in their life if they really take to heart everything that you're about to teach us today and they apply it in their life?

Dr. Judith Joseph 3:31 If you're listening right now and you are feeling a bit empty or restless or just feeling lost, you should thank yourself right now, because you are giving yourself the gift of knowledge. You are being curious about how you can potentially be happier, and how you could p- potentially impact the people in your lives. So I want you to thank yourself, because you are giving your gi- yourself the gift of making your life better.

Mel Robbins 3:57 I was not expecting you to say that. I think that when you're feeling really overwhelmed or lost or just unhappy, that the last thing that you're doing is thanking yourself, you're beating yourself up. Why is that an important thing to do?

Dr. Judith Joseph 4:12 Many of us are so hard on ourselves. Look, for example, today, I'm coming to the Mel Robbins show to see my good friend Mel, and I'm like, "Why didn't I read this? Why didn't I read that?" I had to even stop and say, "I should be really giving myself some gratitude here, you know? I'm doing something that's making the world a better place, I'm a working mom, I'm a single mom, I am an entrepreneur." So as a psychiatrist, I have to remind myself of my self-worth that I am doing something good, that I should be grateful for me and grateful for the things that I'm doing.

Mel Robbins 4:45 What's interesting about what you just said is that I think that we are all, know that we beat ourselves up, but when I look at somebody like you and I look at your resume and I look at the work that you're doing in the world, it wouldn't even occur to me that you have a critical inner voice. And I guess where I wanna start, because for the person that isn't familiar with your work, you have an extremely unique lab. You do very important work, and I would love for you to just share with the person that's with us what you do and why it's so unique and the kinds of things that your lab is researching right now.

Dr. Judith Joseph 5:25 Well, Mel, I've- I've told you this story before personally, but many people don't know this. In 2020, I was sitting at my desk in my office and I was giving this talk to this major hospital system, to people who were, didn't know what was happening in the world, who were faced with uncertainty and were afraid, and they were looking to me for help. And midway through that talk, I was just like, "Oh my gosh, I think I'm depressed." And I was like, "How did depression sneak up on me?" And it led me to wonder, how many people out there are wearing this mask of productivity, they're really struggling un- underneath and no one knows it? But they're coping with it by busying themselves, by showing up for others, by being a- a good mom, by being a good friend, a good sister, a caretaker.... and I started to ask this question in my practice, and many people were saying, "That is me, that is me," but they weren't fitting neatly into this box because they were still going, they were still pushing through, they were still functioning.

Mel Robbins 6:20 Hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 6:21 That led me to really understand the human experience in a different way. How is it that people are showing up, but they're feeling empty? What is that? And that led me to understand high-functioning depression, that feeling of being numb, f- being meh, feeling blah, feeling as if things don't excite you anymore. And I want people to know that this is a human experience. It's happening to you, you can understand it better, and you could do something about it.

Mel Robbins 6:46 You have a very unique take though on everything that you do, because you're not only in clinical practice and you're not only a professor, but you're running this world-renowned research lab. So before we jump into some of the things that you've been researching about high-functioning depression, and more importantly, the new research coming out of The Happiness Lab, can you just share with the person that's listening what your lab does and some of the things that you're focused on that are very unique and how that informs the way you think about happiness?

Dr. Judith Joseph 7:22 Yes, my lab is focused on mental health issues, anywhere from ADHD to dementia. And as a principal investigator leading teams that study phase two to phase four clinical research, we're constantly trying to work with companies to develop new medications, new therapies to address things like ADHD, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, depression.

Dr. Judith Joseph 7:47 And as a scientific, a serious researcher, I know that there's something called the biopsychosocial model. So-

Mel Robbins 7:54 Okay, hold on.

Dr. Judith Joseph 7:55 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 7:55 What is the bio so- social psycho... What- what did you say?

Dr. Judith Joseph 7:59 Biopsychosocial model.

Mel Robbins 8:01 Okay, and what does that mean in a normal person speak?

Dr. Judith Joseph 8:05 Well, in medical school, we all learned that certain illnesses or conditions have different components.

Mel Robbins 8:11 Uh-huh.

Dr. Judith Joseph 8:12 If it were as simple, let's say for example, as depression, if it were as simple as taking a pill, we, none of us would ever be depressed. We'd just put the meds in the water and everybody would be happy-go-lucky, right?

Mel Robbins 8:21 Yeah.

Dr. Judith Joseph 8:21 But we know that it's not that simple because biologically, there are risk factors for depression, there are risk factors based on your genetics, your past hist- family history, and certain medical conditions. And then we know psychologically, there are factors based on your past trauma, your attachment style, the way that you're resilient or not, the way you cope adaptively or not, and then the social part, which is your environment.

Mel Robbins 8:46 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 8:46 So, what are your relationships like? What is your job like? What is your school like? What are you eating? How much are you moving? Are you exposed to toxins? So it's very complicated because there are all these factors that lead to your happiness or detract from your happiness, and I wanted to democratize that because why should only medical students have access to this? Everyone should know what their biopsychosocial is because then we have different avenues to obtaining and attaining sustainable happiness.

Mel Robbins 9:17 I think I understand why you're so excited about this new research. What are you researching exactly in The Happiness Lab?

Dr. Judith Joseph 9:26 Well, everyone has a different idea about happiness.

Mel Robbins 9:28 Mm-hmm. What is your definition of happiness?

Dr. Judith Joseph 9:30 For me?

Mel Robbins 9:31 Yeah.

Dr. Judith Joseph 9:32 Feeling connected. When I was... And it goes back to my childhood. My dad was a pastor and we would go out into the community and help people, and feeling connected to people, feeling that I'm creating purpose in this world, that makes me happy. And connectedness could be with my family, it could be with my friends in my lab, but that makes me extremely happy. I mean, I'm one of four siblings, so I'm always around people and that energy feeds me, it makes me thrive. The moments in my li- life, in my past when I've been unhappy, I've been incredibly lonely-

Mel Robbins 10:07 Hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 10:08 ... and I need to feel that- that connection.

Mel Robbins 10:12 Is everybody's definition different?

Dr. Judith Joseph 10:14 I think so. I think some people are okay with having some loneliness here or there, you know, I- I call it loneliness, but for them, it's me time, right?

Mel Robbins 10:22 Right, right.

Dr. Judith Joseph 10:22 Um, for others, they need that time away from others to explore, to create, and that's okay. We all have our own idea of what makes us feel happier. Every time you think of the word happy, just imagine, write down what you imagine happy is in your mind.

Mel Robbins 10:40 I immediately thought of my dog. I don't know if my family's gonna be mad at me, but for some reason, I thought about my dog. Well, I have two dogs, so I should probably say both dogs. And the fact that it's not that I'm happy when I see them, I am, but if I had to think of an image around what is happy, it's the fact that when you open the door, your pet is so excited to see you, their whole body is shaking, they are nothing but love toward you, th- they seem to constantly be emoting something that feels positive. Am I in the right lane here?

Dr. Judith Joseph 11:15 Well, uh, Mel, you're healed. Like, you have a... (laughs)

Mel Robbins 11:17 (laughs)

Dr. Judith Joseph 11:18 You've done the work. But many people, when they think of happiness, when they're being real with themselves, they're thinking about, "I have this house, I have this car, I have this partner, I have this perfect job. I feel complete." The problem with that is that once you get those things, the science shows that you're still not happy, you're still looking for more things. And I- I've experienced that, you know, I had the fancy degrees, got the marriage, got the kid, had the house, had the business, and I still felt empty, I was still looking for more.

Mel Robbins 11:50 Hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 11:50 And that's an experience that a lot of people come to me with. They say, "Well, I don't know why I'm still not happy," but I wanted people to understand why they feel this way, what is the science of your happiness? And there's this whole curriculum throughout America in many schools where, you know, adolescents are learning about the science of happiness, college students are learning about it.... but a lot of adults don't know about it, and I wanted to basically bring you back to school to understand the science of your happiness. So in my lab, I take people through their own unique biopsychosocial and help them to understand their biology, understand their psychology, and their social factors so that we can work from these three different angles to really cultivate joy.

Mel Robbins 12:35 Well, what I think is so cool is that when I think about what you do for a living, on one hand, you're teaching. On another hand, you're in clinical practice, sitting in front of people. And another unique thing about your practice is you have people of all ages in your practice. So your practice is little kids all the way up to grandparents, and so you're seeing the full range of the human experience. And then, you're running an all-female clinical research lab that is investigating and running clinical trials for pharmaceutical prescription drugs that will help people with mental health issues. And so you're ... have this lens that where you've seen interventions with prescription drugs, you see interventions with talk therapy. You are teaching this at New York University, and now you've decided to start this Happiness Lab to try to help people find their blueprint for happiness. So w- how did you set up the research for the Happiness Lab, given that you have these three very different parts of your professional life where you're seeing patients?

Dr. Judith Joseph 13:50 I set up the Happiness Lab based on all the different hats that I wear. For example, with the doctors at NYU, I'm teaching them how to use media and social media to communicate effectively to the public, so taking really complex mental health things and delivering them in easily relatable ways. In the lab, I'm doing research with drugs and different methods, trying to address certain symptoms. And in the Happiness Lab, I'm really pooling from all of these different parts, these different hats that I wear, and making it accessible so that people have a path to really understanding the science of their own happiness and how to obtain sustainable joy. That's how I came up with the five Vs to thriving. I wanted to be able to tailor this to the individual but have a methodology that anyone could follow, and the five Vs are very simple. The first is validating. Many times, we don't acknowledge how we feel. The second is venting, learning how to express how we feel. The third is our values, things that really give our lives a sense of purpose and meaning. The fourth, vitals. We only have one body. We have to learn how to take care of it. And the fifth is vision. How do we keep moving forward so that we're not stuck in the past?

Mel Robbins 15:05 So Dr. Judith, you've spent almost your entire career treating and helping patients who are struggling with depression and anxiety and who are just feeling off or on autopilot, or they have, like, complex trauma, and that's the work that you've been doing as a psychiatrist. And then you have this research institute that is also researching and doing clinical trials for all kinds of pharmaceutical interventions that are trying to get approved by the FDA to help people with mental health challenges.

Mel Robbins 15:46 And what I'm curious about is, why did you want to then kind of flip it from depression and anxiety and truly do research around happiness? Like, what led to this?

Dr. Judith Joseph 16:01 So, many times, we're so focused on the science and advances that we've forgotten the basics.

Mel Robbins 16:07 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 16:08 And we all have the DNA, we have the makeup to find happiness. We're just genetically built to have joy. That's why we have dopamine in our, in our brains, but we've forgotten along the way the basics, and I wanted people to know that there are five pathways to happiness that everyone has access to. We all, you know, do different things within these five Vs that I created, but we all have access to them. And if we knew them, then we could all find the science of our own happiness and follow these five pathways.

Mel Robbins 16:40 And are these five pathways that you're about to teach us, these five Vs that have come out of your research in this Happiness Lab project, are these related to the same things that keep you unhappy or make you be in a position in your life where you feel lost or overwhelmed? Like, what's the connection between what you see when somebody's really struggling versus what you see when somebody's happy?

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:07 All of these five Vs have a negative and a positive aspect of them. If we're not doing them right, we will be unhappy. If we're doing them in a positive way that edifies us, we will be happier.

Mel Robbins 17:20 Let me just see that I understand what you just said. So as a psychiatrist and a researcher, you see these same five things when somebody's struggling. It's just that they're not actually focused on them.

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:34 Correct.

Mel Robbins 17:34 And that means that if you flip it, these same five things become your pathway to becoming happier regardless of where you are in your life and what you're dealing with.

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:44 Absolutely.

Mel Robbins 17:45 That is so cool. Well, one of the Vs I heard you say was venting.

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:50 Yes.

Mel Robbins 17:50 No wonder I'm happy-

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:51 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 17:51 ... 'cause I do a lot of venting.

Dr. Judith Joseph 17:53 You do.

Mel Robbins 17:53 Now, I actually wanna unpack all this because you keep, though, saying, "Tailor it to the individual." What does that mean? Because I thought that kind of the blueprint is the same for all of us. It's not?

Dr. Judith Joseph 18:05 We all have a biopsychosocial.But many of us, let's say people who have autoimmune conditions, we may have to focus more on the biological part. Because if we have a condition that's really creating a lot of stress on our bodies and brains, then you know, it may not make sense to focus on the social part. Like, it doesn't matter how much kale you eat, you're still gonna have that autoimmune condition, so you may have to work with specialists, work on decreasing the amount of inflammation in your body from that biological perspective, and then work on the psychological and social layer. For others of us, we may have more of the social aspect that's creating stress in our system, so it could be a bad relationship with a toxic individual who's literally, like, sucking our life force. So again, you may wanna focus there because it doesn't matter how much sleep you're getting, you need to be able to get this person out of your life so that you can see clearer and make better decisions. And for others, we have more psychological components that are creating stress. Let's say if you have a history of trauma and you are avoiding things, you're avoiding living because you're afraid of being triggered, I may wanna work more with that individual on how to address their trauma response so they can cope better. So yes, the five V's seems like one method, but we all wanna utilize it differently because we're all unique and different, and we all have different biopsychosocial components.

Mel Robbins 19:25 And the five V's that you're about to share with us help you customize what you need to work on now?

Dr. Judith Joseph 19:30 Yes.

Mel Robbins 19:30 That is so cool.

Dr. Judith Joseph 19:31 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 19:32 Okay? This is personalized medicine, basically, straight from

Mel Robbins 19:36 you. So let's unpack this. What is the first V in this formula that you have?

Dr. Judith Joseph 19:42 The first V is validation. We often are so busy, we neglect how we feel. We sometimes, like, you know, I'm guilty of it too. I'll be sitting at, I'll be working and I have to go to the bathroom, and I don't even go to the bathroom. I'm invalidating how I feel. And I recently gave a talk to a group of high powered women, and I asked them, "How many of you have worked through going to the bathroom through eating?" And they raised their hands because we don't acknowledge how we feel. If you don't acknowledge how you feel, you can't do anything about it.

Mel Robbins 20:13 How on earth does validating how I feel make me happier?

Dr. Judith Joseph 20:16 Knowing how you feel, in itself, is a therapeutic act. Many times, we don't understand our emotions. We kind of feel like blah, numb, or we're just going through it. But the science shows us that if we can acknowledge how we feel, that in itself decreases the amount of uncertainty. As human beings, we need to know things. Feeling that we know what's happening actually decreases uncertainty and decreases stress, and we feel better.

Mel Robbins 20:43 So how do you start this? Because I think for a lot of us, if I think back to... Today, I'm doing okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 20:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 20:50 Like, this particular day. Tomorrow, who knows what's gonna happen when I wake up? But when I think back to moments in my life where I've been profoundly unhappy, I was way too busy. I was drinking too much. I was gaslighting myself, saying, "I'll just get through it. I'll just get through it." But if you're in the middle of that, or you're profoundly depressed, like, you're so wired to just keep going or to avoid it. How do you even validate your feelings if you've basically been numbing them for a long time?

Dr. Judith Joseph 21:26 So w- uh, many times we avoid how we feel because this is a trauma response. If bad things happen to us and they're emotionally triggering, we don't wanna think about it. So it's natural to not wanna say, "I feel this way," because we're afraid that if we acknowledge it, something bad will happen, and we get triggered and we may go into fight or flight because we're acknowledging this negative emotion. But it's important to do this because if we are not acknowledging how we're feeling, we're not able to break patterns that may actually be very unhealthy for us. I once had a client who had a hard time validating how she felt because she was so busy focused on everyone else around her. She was busying herself worried about how everyone else felt and validating them that she was invalidating herself. And in our work together, we realized that she was the serial people pleaser. But in that work, having her slow down, having her not look outwards but look inwards, and understand that, "Okay, I'm doing this because I have low self-worth, because, you know, in my past, I was neglected, that this is the only way that I can show up, because this is the only way I think I'm able to obtain love," that allowed her to acknowledge that emptiness that she felt, that feeling of low worth that she felt. And it wasn't a positive feeling. It was a negative feeling. It was painful for her. But acknowledging it and validating it allowed us to do the work to move forward in a different direction so that her relationships are more balanced and they're healthier.

Mel Robbins 22:55 A lot of times when you are a people pleaser and you are somebody that cannot say no and you struggle with guilt and then you're exhausted and you're always last on the list, like, there's this real kind of weakness that masochism is a strong word. And so when you start to call yourself, "I'm being a masochist," which basically means you're destroying yourself, if I'm kind of tracking with you here, I, I, I, you had the benefit of going to therapy. The majority of people do not. So do you, as a psychiatrist running a clinical practice, have a tricky question, like a sneaky one?

Dr. Judith Joseph 23:32 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 23:33 For s- No, I'm serious. The act of learning how to validate how you feel, it's very difficult for a lot of people. I remember this funny thing that my mother said once. We were talking about therapy, and she just kinda quipped, "Well, why would I wanna go to therapy? So I can find out I hate my life and I don't like your father?"

Dr. Judith Joseph 23:51 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 23:51 "Like, I don't wanna look at myself." And we had a good laugh, and she was kinda kidding. But is there a way, and I, I really mean this, for somebody that's never stopped to think about how they're actually feeling because they've been in survival mode or they've had an experience in life where they've just felt kind of invisible?... where you could give the person listening a cue or a journal prompt so that they could truly do step one?

Dr. Judith Joseph 24:24 Absolutely. And, and you're gonna say it's simple, but the first step is ask yourself, "How do I feel?" I know it sounds so cheesy, but, "How do I really feel?" That's, like, the internal validation. People are neurodivergent. Some people can't do that introspection, so what I do with some of my clients is I say, "Well, because you're a visual learner, sometimes it's helpful for you, may not be helpful for someone else, to look in the mirror and look yourself in the eye and say, 'How am I feeling today?' Be honest with yourself." Other people, again, people learn differently. They're more tactile, so they use their hands, they're more manual, so I'll ask them to write, "How do I feel?"

Mel Robbins 25:03 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 25:04 In some cases where people have something called alexithymia, which is a condition where you have a really hard time pinpointing your emotions, I'll actually have a face chart of different emotions and different words, and I'll ask them to circle, "How do I feel?" It sounds very basic, but there are people who can't. They just either culturally were not taught to validate themselves, or in their family it just wasn't the norm, or, again, they have alexithymia, they just don't know how to identify feelings. So depending on the person, I have artists sometimes who come to my office and I'll say, like, "When you're playing a song, maybe play a song that expresses how you feel." So that's how you can self-validate. You can verbally acknowledge it or you can write it down, but it's important to do it.

Mel Robbins 25:47 I, I think I understand why. Let me s- let me give this back to you. You can't be sober until you stop drinking.

Dr. Judith Joseph 25:55 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 25:56 And if you want to be happy, you're not gonna be able to access it if you are going through life denying the fact that you feel overwhelmed or sad or lonely. Like, stopping to acknowledge-

Dr. Judith Joseph 26:13 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:13 ... where you're at opens the door for you to walk through it into a different room.

Dr. Judith Joseph 26:20 Yes.

Mel Robbins 26:21 So what is the second V?

Dr. Judith Joseph 26:23 The second V is venting. And (laughs) -

Mel Robbins 26:25 I love this one. Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 26:26 If you think about venting, so from a scientific term, it's like air is in a bubble and then you let it out and the pressure's released. We need to let out our pressure. We need to get ou- let off steam literally, right? So venting is getting that ve- like, once you validate how you feel, how do you get it out there? For some people, I mean, I, I, my dad's a pastor. They pray. You know, in the church, a lot of people pray and they'll talk to God and they express to God how they're feeling, but they don't feel comfortable telling their partner-

Mel Robbins 26:55 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 26:55 ... they don't feel comfortable telling anyone else. For others, it's talking to a therapist. For others, it could be to a faith leader. And I mentioned I treat artists, so sometimes some of my artists will come in and they'll sing a song to me or they'll show me something that they drew. I personally vent by using social media, because if I'm feeling a certain way, I'll create a Reel or, um, you know, uh, a post to express it. And a lot of my younger clients who are in Gen Z, like, I think now 50% of Gen Z wants to have, like, a side hustle as being an influencer, so they're expressing their feelings that way, venting in that creative outlet.

Mel Robbins 27:32 So let me just make sure I get venting, 'cause when you said the second V from the research that you've been doing on what you need to be doing in order to become happier based on the research, when you said venting-

Dr. Judith Joseph 27:47 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:47 ... I'm like, "Great, so my rage texts-"

Dr. Judith Joseph 27:49 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 27:49 "... to my husband are gonna make me happier. My..." Th- but that's not what you mean.

Dr. Judith Joseph 27:53 No.

Mel Robbins 27:54 Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 27:54 Well, there are do's and don'ts of venting, right?

Mel Robbins 27:56 Okay, so give us the do's, because if you validate how you feel-

Dr. Judith Joseph 28:00 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 28:01 ... which opens the door to having you be able to feel something different-

Dr. Judith Joseph 28:05 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 28:06 ... then you have to vent, but what am I venting exac- am I venting bad things? Am I venting good things?

Dr. Judith Joseph 28:13 You can vent bad or good. Venting is getting the emotion out once you acknowledge it.

Mel Robbins 28:18 Oh.

Dr. Judith Joseph 28:18 Validating can be ac- acknowledging both perceived good and bad emotions, right, negative or positive. I don't like the word good bad, but, you know, any emotion that you acknowledge, you can then vent it. Now, what you described when you are, you know, full of rage or you're emotional, that could be perceived as trauma dumping, right? So, like...

Mel Robbins 28:37 Yeah, you mean Thursday night? (laughs)

Dr. Judith Joseph 28:38 (laughs) And with my clients, I do go through the do's and the don'ts, like, "Don't vent when you're in the heat of the moment," right? Maybe take a beat, m- slow down a bit and think about it. Um, and then, you know, don't trauma dump, you know, especially if you're venting to someone who's maybe on a, someone who's an employee, right? That power dynamic is not fair-

Mel Robbins 29:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 29:00 ... because they, they're gonna listen.

Mel Robbins 29:01 Yeah.

Dr. Judith Joseph 29:01 They're not gonna be like, "Shut up." Like-

Mel Robbins 29:03 Yes.

Dr. Judith Joseph 29:03 ... "You complain all the time." They're gonna be like, "Uh-huh. Yeah, boss." And then they're gonna go home and then they're gonna vent to someone else, right? So you want to be mindful of making sure that you're not trauma dumping and making sure that you are reflecting and not, you know, then creating stress for someone else. But really, I ask people to do a lot of self-venting first, so say it out loud if you have to, you know, express it in a song if you have to. But it is helpful to talk to people, and you wanna th- think about, "Okay, the person that I'm going to repeatedly, is it fair? Is that person okay with it?" So you can even ask them, like, "Hey, is it okay if I check in with you? I have this problem. I know that I come to you often. If it ever feels like I'm doing this too much or you feel overwhelmed and it's not reciprocal, let me know." So there are ways to go about it and which I provide.

Mel Robbins 29:51 So as part of the, the, the five Vs-

Dr. Judith Joseph 29:54 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 29:54 ... and I'm sorry, I've, like, got my little brain spinning here.

Dr. Judith Joseph 29:56 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 29:58 Are, are part of these five Vs helping you also release the things that are keeping you unhappy?

Dr. Judith Joseph 30:05 Yes.

Mel Robbins 30:05 Got it. Okay, so now I'm getting this. So, a lot of people that do happiness research, they start with, "Do these things and then that creates more happiness." As a clinical researcher, you're saying there are actually f-... things that are in your way from even accessing the advice that a lot of people are giving, that if you're, let's just take the first one, not even present to your feelings, and you haven't validated them-

Dr. Judith Joseph 30:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 30:33 ... you're not gonna take the walk. If you're not venting, which now it sounds like venting is literally releasing the emotion that has you trapped, whether it's positive or negative, and saying, "Oh, I'm sad," and, or talking to somebody, or doing art, you're gonna stay stuck in that emotion because it's trapped in you. And so it's almost like these are hidden obstacles that are keeping you from accessing the happiness that's available to you.

Dr. Judith Joseph 30:59 Absolutely.

Mel Robbins 31:00 Oh, I just got this.

Dr. Judith Joseph 31:01 Yes.

Mel Robbins 31:01 Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 31:02 You're, uh, I love the way that you really break things down, because you're absolutely right. People automatically think, "I gotta do these things," but they're not doing the first parts, which is, again, this is the democratizing of the mental health, what I'm talking about. The first parts, that's usually what happens in, in a therapeutic setting, right? We get to the, we start at the basics, and then we work our way up to the action.

Mel Robbins 31:22 Gotcha.

Dr. Judith Joseph 31:23 But when you're skipping that part-

Mel Robbins 31:25 Right.

Dr. Judith Joseph 31:25 ... and you're doing the action, you don't even know why you're doing it.

Mel Robbins 31:28 It's a Band-Aid.

Dr. Judith Joseph 31:28 You don't understand it, correct.

Mel Robbins 31:30 You know, Dr. Joseph, I think I finally understand what you're trying to teach us, which is, there are all these pieces of advice that do work, that allow you to be happier, but what you're actually doing is going a layer deeper based on the research and revealing the things that keep you stuck from even accessing the happiness. If you do, like, you take a walk, or you reach out to other people, if you're still blocked emotionally, if you haven't released the emotion, then happiness is gonna be fleeting. It's like a Band-Aid on a giant wound. And so, are these five V's the things that are almost like the hidden obstacles to you being able to access happiness?

Dr. Judith Joseph 32:15 They are. You know, if you think about it as you're going from deeper level to surface level-

Mel Robbins 32:21 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 32:21 ... it's a journey. And I think that what you're describing so beautifully is that people, they wanna get the skills and the toolbox, but they don't understand the why. They don't understand what they're searching for.

Mel Robbins 32:33 Yeah.

Dr. Judith Joseph 32:33 So they're just like, you know, using these tools, but they don't have a target. They don't understand what was behind it, and the beginning parts are so important, and that's what I'm talking about with democratizing mental health is that when you sit with a, with someone who's a therapist and you work, do the work, and you're learning, A, how you feel and how to express it so that you can continue growing in that work, then you can start using the tools. But a lot of us who've never really worked with anyone or, or didn't have success in therapy, we're just using the tools but we're, it's like no one taught us how to use the tools, so we're lost.

Mel Robbins 33:06 Well, what's also really important about this is that as, if you have somebody in your life who's not happy, and I can think of just, gosh, I, it was probably, I'd say seven years ago, my husband was really struggling. It was after his business had failed, and he absolutely had depression. He was doing all the things. He was meditating. He was exercising. He was engaging in meaningful work and volunteering as a hospice volunteer. He could not access happiness, and it's exactly what you're talking about. All of his feelings were bottled up inside, and in his case, it was the shame that he felt about having lost all this money in the business and feeling like he had failed to provide as a parent and as a husband and as a father. And it wasn't until he's, he did what you're talking about, which is validate how he was feeling and then vent it by starting to actually talk about it and write about it in his journal and then talk about it with me and talk about it with somebody else. And when I think about our son, Oakley, when Oakley was really struggling in school and felt incredibly lonely, he just shut down. And it didn't matter how many Lego sets he built or how much time we spent skiing, which he loved to do. He still would go back to that baseline of unhappiness.

Dr. Judith Joseph 34:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 34:37 And so I think this is also important because when you have somebody that's struggling in your life, you tend to kinda throw the things they should be doing at them, and this is the deeper stuff that has them blocked.

Mel Robbins 34:50 So what is, uh, the third V that somebody needs to do?

Dr. Judith Joseph 34:54 The third is values.

Mel Robbins 34:56 Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 34:56 And, you know, for myself, I talked about how I used to value education and accolades and all these things, but at the end of the day, I had to do a deep dive and think about, well, wha- and when I felt full, fed, and really purposeful, these were, this, these were the times when I was helping others, right?

Mel Robbins 35:14 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 35:15 And even if I was in this prestigious program in this prestigious field at the time, I didn't feel fulfilled. I didn't feel fed, but what I valued was connecting with people and helping them. So I had to go back to the basics as to what I truly value, not what people tell me that I should value, not what my family told me I should value, but what I truly valued. And for some, it could be your faith. For some, it could be your family. For others, it's a cause that you feel passionate about. There are deeper level values and more shallow ones. Like, you know, many of us, we chase money. We chase materialistic things, and I, I think that those are more, you know, shallow because they don't last. Like, when you're in your deathbed, you're not gonna think, "Oh, I wish I had that pink Porsche," you know? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 35:58 Right.

Dr. Judith Joseph 35:59 You're gonna think-

Mel Robbins 35:59 The only, the only people that remember how much you're worth are your kids.

Dr. Judith Joseph 36:02 You're gonna think about the people in your life. You're gonna think about whether or not you created change. Th- you're gonna think about the legacy that you left, right? So I think that really being... you know, having that self-reflection and thinking about what you truly value, what brings you purpose and meaning, what makes your life rich, what makes you feel full and fed, not the things that are just around you, the objects, but things that really give you that sense of purpose.

Mel Robbins 36:26 As a psychiatrist in clinical practice...Is there a question? Is there, like, some little trick that we can use? Because I do think that word value-

Dr. Judith Joseph 36:36 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 36:36 ... it feels awfully big.

Dr. Judith Joseph 36:38 It does.

Mel Robbins 36:38 And when you're not happy, you're not sure what you value.

Dr. Judith Joseph 36:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 36:43 And especially if you're listening, not even for yourself, but you're thinking about somebody that you care about who isn't happy right now, is there a question? Is there an exercise? Is, do you look in the past and see when you were happy? Like, how can you figure this out for yourself?

Dr. Judith Joseph 36:59 When I have a client in my practice-

Mel Robbins 37:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 37:01 ... sometimes, and I recently had someone come to me and say, "I just don't remember what I valued anymore," so we had to look at the past. And I asked her, you know, "When was the last time that you can really remember that you felt full and fed?" You know, I feel- I use these very, like, basic-

Mel Robbins 37:15 You mean, other, a- a table?

Dr. Judith Joseph 37:16 Yeah. Uh, o- other than that-

Mel Robbins 37:18 Dining room table? Yes.

Dr. Judith Joseph 37:18 ... just, like, spiritually full.

Mel Robbins 37:19 Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 37:20 You know, satisfied. And we went back to her childhood, and around that time, you know, her parents were going through a divorce. But right before that, she remembered that they would spend a lot of time in nature, that they would, you know, do camping trips and things like that. And so we had to look back in her past. It took us time, but we found that point in time. We found the trauma, and we uncovered what was blocking her. And she hadn't been spending a lot of time in nature. She was living in a big city. She was busying herself with her important job. So I asked her, "Okay, let's, you value nature. Let's start to spend some time there." I didn't ask her to go on a hiking trip.

Mel Robbins 37:56 Right.

Dr. Judith Joseph 37:56 I asked her to slowly take steps. So the first step was, you know, reading about, uh, a hike online. The next step was maybe looking at pictures of it-

Mel Robbins 38:06 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 38:06 ... maybe going out and picking out some boots, so we did baby steps to get there. And eventually, she started spending more time in nature and feeling a bit happier. You know, not to say that her depression was completely cured, but her points of joy were increasing. And that gave her hope, because she felt so lost, but knowing that these little things, simple things, could bring her back to feeling purposeful, even for just moments, that gave her hope.

Mel Robbins 38:32 I, I have a friend that I saw recently who just was glowing, and I said to her, "What, what is going on? Like, you look amazing." And she said, "Well, you know what? I started taking ballet classes-

Dr. Judith Joseph 38:44 Mm.

Mel Robbins 38:44 ... as an adult, and it was something I did as a kid. And I've been feeling this sense that something's missing 'cause my kids are now busy as they're getting older, and I'm not quite sure what fills me up, so I just started taking ballet because I used to love it, and I'm just..." And she just looked alive. And I offer that up because I think it's a easy way to think about, what is something that you haven't done in a long time that you used to enjoy doing, hiking, taking class, artistic expression, that just that little thing, you're saying, based on the research, can open up doors to greater happiness for you?

Dr. Judith Joseph 39:22 It can, and sometimes I have clients who can't remember their childhood because maybe there was so much disruption-

Mel Robbins 39:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 39:28 ... maybe there was so much trauma, and they have a foggy memory. So, I have other creative ways to help them with their values, like, think of someone that maybe, if you could pick one person that you could sit down and have a coffee with or a drink with, who would it be? And sometimes they'll be like, "Oh, I wish, you know, if Prince were alive, I could sit down with Prince." It's like, "Okay, so what is it about Prince," you know?

Mel Robbins 39:47 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 39:47 And then we go back to they value, they value music, and they used to listen to music. They used to go to live shows. So, there are different creative ways that you can get to finding out what you value, and, you know, I, somet- for some of my clients, I have to be very concrete and list the values out and then go through them. But you can find things that you truly, you know, bring th- your life meaning, that truly give you a sense of purpose, even if you feel like, "Okay, I, I don't have time for that," or, "I forgot it."

Mel Robbins 40:13 I can see now why this is individual.

Dr. Judith Joseph 40:15 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 40:16 These five V's that you're talking about remove the blocks to happiness, but they also help you locate the little drivers inside you that you either got too busy or too depressed or too overwhelmed to be conscientious about inserting into your life. That's really cool. I love knowing that these simple things also are tied to all of this research that is coming from your renowned institute. And that's why I'm so appreciative that you're here, because sometimes when you hear things that seem like, "Okay, I think I might know that already," you tend to blow them off. But what I love about your work, Dr. Judith, is that it's the research that makes me feel motivated and compelled to really get serious about trying it. And I'm sure as you're listening to Dr. Judith, you're feeling more motivated to try it too, and one of the things that you can do, based on the research, to boost your happiness is to be connected with people that bring you joy. And so you can spread a little joy by sharing this life-changing information with somebody that you care about. I love learning from you, Dr. Judith, and I'm so grateful that you're here to share all of the extraordinary insights that you've had now that you've started the Happiness Lab.

Mel Robbins 41:31 So, Dr. Judith, what is the fourth V?

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:33 The fourth is vitals.

Mel Robbins 41:35 Okay, what does that mean? Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:35 And I call it, I call it the annoying V. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:38 (laughs)

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:38 Because whenever you go to your doctor, they're gonna be like, "Make sure you're eating well, you're sleeping well," and all these-

Mel Robbins 41:43 Oh, I thought you were about to say-

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:44 ... great things moving.

Mel Robbins 41:44 ... get on the scale. I'm like-

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:45 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 41:45 ... let me take our shoes off first, please.

Dr. Judith Joseph 41:47 But, you know, with my daughter, every night, I'll tell her, you know, we, we, I, I say, "How many bodies did God give you?" And she says, "One." "And then what do you gotta do with it?" "Take care of it." And I think it's a very basic, you know, story. It makes my heart really tender, but we only have one body.

Mel Robbins 42:02 That was so beautiful.

Dr. Judith Joseph 42:04 (laughs) Thank you.

Mel Robbins 42:05 Would you say that again, what you say to your daughter?

Dr. Judith Joseph 42:08 I ask her, you know, "How many bodies did God give you?" And she says, "One." "And what do we have to do with it?" "Take care of it."

Mel Robbins 42:15 It's so true. And regardless of what you believe when it comes to spirituality, you just have one body.

Dr. Judith Joseph 42:21 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:22 And it's your job to take care of it.

Dr. Judith Joseph 42:24 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:25 It's actually your responsibility. And I love that word responsibility because if you break it apart, it's your ability to respond. And no matter what's going on, if you really take the fourth V-... to heart in the way that you're about to explain it to us. Like, you do have the ability to respond to the circumstances of your life and make better decisions and choices about how you take care of this one body that you have. 'Cause a lot of us just, it's like a afterthought and then we wonder why we're not happy. What are the most important things when it comes to this fourth V and vital and taking care of this one body you have?

Dr. Judith Joseph 43:08 Well, I- I love vitals because vitals kind of looks at the biopsychosocial, and if you, if you look at th- at the diagram online, they overlap the Venn, uh, diagram. So, it has a lot of the biological components, like the things that we eat. Many times, you know, we eat things that ha- are so processed, that are not full of nutrients, and that causes inflammation to rise in our body. Inflammation makes our brains unhappy, makes us more anxious and depressed, makes our sleep worse, makes our body feel icky. And then, you know, the, so there are certain foods that you can eat that are rich in vitamins and omega-3 fatty acids like fish, leafy greens, berries, that are good for your brain. Like, um, w- in our Happiness Lab, we do a demonstration where we have everyone eat a blueberry and we're like, "You know what? Within an hour, you're gonna have blood rushing to your brain because that's how powerful a single blueberry is." And so-

Mel Robbins 43:58 For real?

Dr. Judith Joseph 43:59 Very powerful. Antioxidant, anti-cancer, just so, just so full of nutrients. And so learning that food has so much power in terms of your happiness, I, it's a reframe for me. So when I start eating my salmon and my, and my spinach, I'm like, "I am doing such good things for my body right now. I'm loving myself. I'm taking care of my body." And that is, I'm self-validating, I'm venting-

Mel Robbins 44:24 Oh. Oh, wait.

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:24 ... you know, like you're tying all the Vs together. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 44:26 You are.

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:27 Yes.

Mel Robbins 44:27 You're right, because you're talking about how you feel and you're talking out loud to yourself.

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 44:31 You value taking care of-

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:33 Yes.

Mel Robbins 44:33 ... yourself and now you're taking care of your body. As our, um, doctor-

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:39 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 44:39 ... even though you can't truly, like, you're not really our doctor, but-

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:42 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 44:42 ... if you could give us one directive in terms of this fourth V, what is the single most important thing to do, in your opinion, if you could just remember one, to take better care of your vitals, to open the door to happiness?

Dr. Judith Joseph 44:59 Well, in the vitals, there's one that doctors neglect. Doctors don't ask you about the quality of your relationships.

Mel Robbins 45:05 Oh.

Dr. Judith Joseph 45:06 And longevity science shows that the number one factor for longevity, for good outcomes, are your relationships. But, you know, doctors are constricted with insurance and they only have 15 minutes to get everything in, so they're not asking about that, right? Your relationships are so important and there was this, um, I can't remember, I think she was a TikToker, and she went on and she was, like, saying that she was so lonely she hadn't had human touch in, like, months during the pandemic, and she was just, like, and it's called, like, I think skin starvation-

Mel Robbins 45:37 Hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 45:37 ... where you don't have that touch. Relationships are so important. They determine your long-term happiness, your health. So pay attention to them. Don't ignore your relationships. And I think that's an important part in the vitals. So I talk about how every day I talk to my daughter and I tell her, you know, how important she is and how there's only one her and there will only ever be one her. Like, when I'm, I'm talking to your followers, there will only ever be one you. Take care of yourself. Make sure you're getting that connection. So yes, the vitals include things like sleep, movement, eating well, limiting your screen time, because that's another vital we neglect. We don't talk about how technology impedes our health and how, I think, one day in the DSM-5 there's gonna be a whole section related to how technology is impacting our mental health, but these are all important vitals. But I think that the quality of your relationships, they're so important.

Mel Robbins 46:30 And what's the fifth V?

Dr. Judith Joseph 46:32 The fifth is vision. Many times we're so busy-

Mel Robbins 46:35 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 46:36 ... that we are not planning our happiness. We're not looking forward. We're not celebrating our wins. And I'm not talking about the big wins, I'm talking about even the small wins, like if you got your kid to school on time. You know, sit down, have a sip of coffee and say, "Wow, like, I'm really, I'm a good parent. Like, I did that." Um, and also just, like, planning joy. We don't take the time to do that. We check the boxes but we don't really look forward to the future. And if we don't have things to look forward to in the future, we're gonna feel stuck in the past.

Mel Robbins 47:09 I think that's, I think you see it for sure when you have somebody in your life that is unhappy.

Dr. Judith Joseph 47:14 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 47:15 That when they wake up, they're not happy with the life that they're in and with where they are in life. Is there a simple thing that you tell your patients to do that helps them have a vision that makes them happy with where they're going in life and with where they are?

Dr. Judith Joseph 47:35 Yes. I mean, I have so many different tools that I give them, but, uh, one of my favorite is the time capsule tool. So I'll say- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 47:42 Okay, what's that? Will you walk us through that?

Dr. Judith Joseph 47:44 It's a, it's a very traditional thing but it's, like, what are the things in your life that you are looking forward to in the future? Let's put it in this time capsule and let's set a date as a family for us to dig it up, right? So the, and I ask them to put-

Mel Robbins 47:58 But you can do this as an individual, right?

Dr. Judith Joseph 48:00 You can do this as an individual.

Mel Robbins 48:01 All right. So let's just say you're an individual-

Dr. Judith Joseph 48:03 Yes.

Mel Robbins 48:03 ... and you're unhappy-

Dr. Judith Joseph 48:04 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 48:05 ... and you're about to do the time capsule exercise.

Dr. Judith Joseph 48:08 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 48:08 Can you walk us through it?

Dr. Judith Joseph 48:10 Yeah. So if you value, right, your family, you may wanna put a picture of them in there and then a little note saying, "I wanna have more interactions with this person." If you value music and you wanna have more live music experiences, I'm gonna try and put something in there that I'm gonna work towards. Maybe it's seeing my favorite artist playing, maybe it's finally going to a concert. If it's about your health, you're gonna put something in there like, "Okay, I wanna get more movement in. So in the future, I'm gonna write my, a note to myself that I'm gonna get more steps." Some of us don't get enough steps because we're so sedentary in our ways.... but then if we have this physical thing, and the reason that I came up with this is because, um, I've traveled the world learning about how we view happiness differently. I noticed that a lot of cultures have little shrines.

Mel Robbins 48:59 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 49:00 And, uh, it, it made me curious about that. Like, what is it about that symbolism-

Mel Robbins 49:04 Huh.

Dr. Judith Joseph 49:04 ... that's so powerful? Sometimes we have to create our own l- shrines to remind us, right? Because, again, many of us are neurodivergent. We learn differently. So having that visual, that tactile, that sensory reminder helps us to have something to look forward to. And my, my clients love it. They love to, like, be their own, uh, like, happiness archaeologist and, like, put together this time capsule and then have something they could dig up in the future. It doesn't have to be a year. It could be, like, two months. But we dig it up together, and we explore, like, how did we do? And I think it's a creative, fun way for people to stay on track and to have something that keeps them moving forward.

Mel Robbins 49:42 How do you... Like, how does... 'Cause I know you research the heck out of absolutely everything you recommend.

Dr. Judith Joseph 49:49 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 49:49 So how does the physical act of creating a vision help you feel happier?

Dr. Judith Joseph 49:57 You're using all of your senses to stay present. It is something that you are... You need the, the sense of touch for.

Mel Robbins 50:05 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 50:05 You need the sense of sight. Some of the things in there could be, uh, emote a smell or sound. But it keeps you grounded and present in this act of love to yourself. And, like I, I mentioned, a lot of my clients are neurodivergent. They need those different s- uh, stimuli to, to be able to stay focused, and they need something to physically look forward to. Many of us can't be as, uh, abstract. Many of us need those concrete reminders. So I... And, and it's something we can do together. It creates that sense of connection, that community.

Mel Robbins 50:37 Mm. Yeah.

Dr. Judith Joseph 50:38 And there are many other ways, tools that I have for keeping, you know, yourself on vision. This is just one of them. Others, that would never work. Other people-

Mel Robbins 50:45 Give me another one.

Dr. Judith Joseph 50:46 For, for my busy moms, I asked, I pull, I tell them to open up their calendar, and we literally sit, and we plan joy. And it sounds kind of like-

Mel Robbins 50:57 Cheeseball.

Dr. Judith Joseph 50:57 ... (laughs) cheesy, but I literally do this-

Mel Robbins 50:58 Especially if they're busy moms. They're like, "Are you kidding me? I've got a load of laundry to do."

Dr. Judith Joseph 51:01 Well, what I find in my office is that people open up their calendars, and there's, like, zero joy. There's... They planned everything else. They have the kids' soccer. They have, you know, their, their work schedule. They have-

Mel Robbins 51:13 Yup.

Dr. Judith Joseph 51:13 ... chores. But there's no joy. So we color-code the joy differently.

Mel Robbins 51:18 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 51:18 And it keeps them accountable. Again, people are visual. Some people are very visual. If they see that there's planned joy, and it's blocked out for everyone, you're set, you're doing multiple things. You're setting boundaries, you're setting a reminder, and you're prioritizing joy. And I... A lot of people, if it's not in their calendar, it's not gonna happen.

Mel Robbins 51:37 So, given that you have been researching all of these factors that it seems like, especially since you do all this clinical research around mental health and prescription drugs, it seems to me that these are not only factors that help you access happiness and create a customized blueprint or formula for bringing more happiness. They also seem like the things that are missing when you're dealing with somebody that has, say, treatment-resistant depression, or that's really struggling with a diagnosable issue, that these are also the factors that you see that are present when you have someone that's struggling. That they don't have a vision.

Dr. Judith Joseph 52:25 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:26 That they're not taking care of themselves in terms of the vital things, from sleep and eating and connection, that we all know we need to do, to the not talking about how they feel, to not even understanding how they feel, to not even having something that they value, that could be as small as gardening or being part of a book club. That those things are missing from someone's life. Is that a fair guess on my part?

Dr. Judith Joseph 52:54 It is. You just described the biopsychosocial in such a simple way. But yes, these are all the components that make up an individual. You know, we forget that real happiness is the sensation, it's the plethora of sensation. When you're feeling lonely, being connected.

Mel Robbins 53:11 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 53:11 When you're hungry, feeling fed. When you're tired, feeling rested, you know? All of these things make up what happiness is, but we forget about it because we get so focused on just the biology, like, just the medicine, that we forget that there are other parts of our lives, that if we can just shape them a bit differently, if we have some, you know, control over the direction of those factors, that we could actually have more sustainable happiness and joy.

Mel Robbins 53:37 Wow. I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me, especially when I think about the fact that one of the biggest, uh, signs of, of depression or somebody struggling is that they ruminate, and they stay in their head.

Dr. Judith Joseph 53:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:51 Which they're not truly able to validate how they feel and start venting it, because they're in an echo chamber. That's really cool-

Dr. Judith Joseph 53:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 53:59 ... that this is what you're doing. Is there anything else that's come out of all this research that you wanna make sure that we know?

Dr. Judith Joseph 54:06 Well, I mean, I think for women in particular, you know, we have twice the rate of depression and anxiety that men have. You know, women are twice as likely to have depression and anxiety. That, that's like... That always hits me. I'm like, "Oh my gosh."

Mel Robbins 54:20 Why?

Dr. Judith Joseph 54:20 Well, when we think about biopsychosocial, from a biological standpoint, you know, we all... We have different hormones, and our hormones at times makes us vulnerable. I do a lot of work with postpartum depression and with the perimenopause and how moods impact our emotions and our behaviors. Society-wise, soc- you know, the social part, we're expected to show up for others. You know, life is unfair. We get paid less (laughs) . We work very hard, and we have so many roles. Many of us are taking care of our kids and our parents, you know, and we have a... jobs. And then from the...... psycho part, you know. You know, women have high, high rates of trauma. We have high rates, again, of, you know, depression, anxiety. We have past things that happened to us. You know, when we attach to others, we're more prone to be in, you know, relationships that could be toxic, right? So there's a lot that's happening for women, and I think we have to acknowledge that. And women in particular need to take care of themselves. It doesn't mean that hormones makes you crazy and wild and emotional. It just means that acknowledging that, "Okay, when I have my period, I'm gonna be more vulnerable. When I'm going through the postpartum period, I'm gonna be more vulnerable. When I'm going through perimenopause, this is happening to me." Acknowledging that these things happen, and I think that for my patients, it's very validating. They're like, "Oh, I understand this." So sometimes we'll plan the periods. "If we know your period is coming in two weeks, you're gonna get more support. You're not gonna work as hard." If you're someone thinking about having a child, a lot of my patients do, and we do a lot of planning around that. And if you're hitting your 30s, late 30s, early 40s, I'm like, "Hey, think about perimenopause." You know? So I think the knowledge, the knowing that this is happening helps you to plan your happiness, not just be a passive participant in this role. You can actually do things to support yourself better.

Mel Robbins 56:10 I, I think that's so important. I remember when I started going through menopause. I thought I was going crazy. The brain fog, the, the... Forget about the sweating. I mean, that was awful too.

Dr. Judith Joseph 56:20 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:20 But just what was happening to me psychologically, and I suffered for too many years because I didn't do what you're teaching us, which is validate that this was happening and then vent to somebody. And all of these steps kinda get you to stop and drop in and realize that you have the ability to make a decision that you're not just gonna let all of this stuff happen and be v- at the effect or the victim of it, that there are little levers that you can pull that it sound like, sounds like based on the research make a huge difference.

Dr. Judith Joseph 57:01 Mm-hmm. Absolutely, yeah, and understanding that, you know, women are more empathic. They... When someone is hurt, women are more likely to feel that pain with them, and it doesn't mean that we're weaker. We're just different.

Mel Robbins 57:13 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 57:13 So understanding the different components of your happiness, understanding the science of your happiness and tailoring it to you, I think people will have more success. They'll feel less lost.

Mel Robbins 57:23 And to your point with emission, this is a way to work on how you're feeling without the prescription drugs.

Dr. Judith Joseph 57:32 Mm-hmm. Or with it, you know?

Mel Robbins 57:34 Or with it.

Dr. Judith Joseph 57:35 You, you may need it, and that's totally fine. That's a part of the puzzle. It's, you know, it's, it's a reason why, like I said, we're not all on antidepressants. There are so many pieces of the puzzle, and it's w- For some people, they're gonna need medication, but others they won't. But we can work on your happiness from all different angles.

Mel Robbins 57:51 So Dr. Judith, could you speak directly to the person that's here with us? And if there's one thing that they take away from this conversation and they actually do, right, what is the one thing that is the most important thing, in your opinion, for them to do?

Dr. Judith Joseph 58:14 I often say mental health is yours, you know? We all have physical health. We all have bodies, but we all have brains. We all have mental health. You may not have a diagnosed mental health condition, but you have mental health. Take care of it. Learn about it. Be curious, nurture it, and make it fun. Make it creative. Bring it back to your roots. I'm a Caribbean American woman. When I think about movement, I'm not just gonna go on a StairMaster. I'm gonna do my, you know, my winding, my dancing, 'cause that bilateral stimulation makes my left brain talk to my right brain and makes me happier. So be creative with it. Think about your past. Bring it into your tailored treatment for yourself. Mental health is yours. You just forgot about it.

Mel Robbins 58:56 And what are your parting words?

Dr. Judith Joseph 58:59 I think we can all live a happier life. I truly believe that if we practice the five V's and we do a lot of self-reflection, not only will we be happier, but happiness will be contagious. We're gonna think about other people differently. When you see someone, you're gonna think about their biopsychosocial and why they're so grumpy, why they're so upset all the time. We'll have more compassion. We'll make society a better r- The world be a better place.

Mel Robbins 59:24 So if somebody's unhappy, one of these are missing or more?

Dr. Judith Joseph 59:29 I think so, and for some, they're gonna have to work more on a, one V versus the other initially. The biggest mistake is when people try to do all the five V's at once, and then they're like, "Oh, this is too much." Pick one, you know? S-

Mel Robbins 59:41 Will it work if I just pick one?

Dr. Judith Joseph 59:43 It-

Mel Robbins 59:43 Will I feel happier?

Dr. Judith Joseph 59:44 I- In research, we use points.

Mel Robbins 59:46 Okay.

Dr. Judith Joseph 59:47 We use rating scales, talking to patients and adding up points, but this is important because when we're adding up points, we're adding up sensations. We're adding up things like sleep. We're adding up things like feeling connected to people. We're adding up things like energy, wellbeing. These are all things that make up, in research, what we call happiness.

Mel Robbins 1:00:10 Huh.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:00:10 And so I think if people knew that and they understood happiness from that framework, they wouldn't feel like they're on this mission to this elusive thing that will never happen, because if you think about happiness as all these sensations in life and you're just trying to get more points of it, then it is attainable.

Mel Robbins 1:00:25 So it's not a singular thing?

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:00:27 No.

Mel Robbins 1:00:27 It's like an accumulation. I'm a big flower person, so it's like all these things coming together in a giant bouquet. And I take it the five V's are all little points-

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:00:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:00:38 ... that, or flower buds or whatever, that you could add in to build happiness in your life.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:00:45 Little points, you will get there. It is a process, right? And I think a lot of us want the quick fix, but you'll, you'll get there slowly with time.

Mel Robbins 1:00:53 Well, that's why I'm taking the pill.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:00:54 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:00:55 You know? Like, I want the quick fix, which is why I'm like, just I'll, I will try that, not to diminish how life-changing they can be.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:01:03 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:01:03 But you have been researching this and...It can be really discouraging when you're not happy.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:01:10 Yes.

Mel Robbins 1:01:11 And so what are you seeing based on the research that if you truly embrace these five Vs, these things that are within your control regardless of how you feel or where you live in the world, what are you seeing is possible in terms of the good news if you focus on these five things?

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:01:32 Just think about this. In most research, we don't use the word "happy." We try to eradicate points of depression. So reframe it.

Mel Robbins 1:01:42 Mm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:01:42 Instead of thinking, "I don't feel happy yet," think about the points of joy. Think about, okay, did acknowledging how I felt, did that decrease stress? Because again, happiness is not this one picture. It's these, this plethora of feelings. So that decreased anxiety, that's a part of happiness. You know, that slowing down and feeling rested, that is a part of happiness. So try your best to reframe it and think about how many different points can-

Mel Robbins 1:02:10 Hm.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:02:10 ... I get in a day versus I just wanna be fixed, I just want this to happen. That reframe is so powerful because my clients will come in and say, "You know what? I started thinking about it in terms of points of joy and I felt good because today I was able to get three points of joy." You know, that's three more points than yesterday.

Mel Robbins 1:02:28 (sniffs)

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:02:28 And build on that. And you will find that slowly over time, you will be happier.

Mel Robbins 1:02:33 Well, Dr. Judith Joseph, thank you for the research that you do. Thank you for coming all the way here to the Boston studios to share the latest research that you're working on. There is no doubt in my mind that if the person listening actually takes this to heart, and they're patient, and they apply the five Vs to find their blueprint for happiness, that they are gonna feel happier.

Dr. Judith Joseph 1:02:56 Thank you so much for having me. This is so much fun.

Mel Robbins 1:02:59 You're welcome. And thank you for choosing to listen to something that could help you be happier and help you improve your life. I just think that it is amazing that you're investing the time in yourself. And in case no one else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your power to create a better life. And part of that is you doing the work to take better care of yourself and to become a little happier, and you deserve that. And now you have some research and some tools that I truly hope you will be using, and I can't wait to hear how they impact your life and the people that you care about. All righty, I'll be waiting for you in the very next episode. I'll see you there. One more thing. I know you're thinking, "Oh my god, Mel, I wanna watch more." Um, do me a favor. First, hit subscribe because that tells me you love this kinda content, and it also supports me in being able to bring you all of this inspiration and these research-backed strategies every single day. So just hit subscribe. Please, please, please. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And also, I know you probably want some more inspiration, something beautiful to watch, so check out this video next. I picked it for you. I know you're gonna enjoy it.