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How to Get Motivated (Even When You Don’t Feel Like It) With Dr. K, HealthyGamerGG

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — Do you want to know how to get motivated even when you don’t feel like it? Today’s episode is one of the best talks ever on how to improve self-motivation and overcome your excuses. So before you waste any more time, listen to this. After today, you will know how to navigate your life with more power and purpose than you ever thought possible. Psychiatrist Dr. Alok Kanojia, MD, also widely known as Dr. K, is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist specializing in modern mental health and the brain. He is beloved by the millions of fans of his YouTube channel Healthy Gamer for his clear, no-nonsense advice about motivation, technology, and making the most of your life. This is one of those episodes that will forever change the way you think. For more resources related to today’s episode, click here for the podcast episode page: www.melrobbins.com/podcasts/episode-208 Follow The Mel Robbins Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 00:00 Introduction 03:36 How Dr. K has overcome failure and rejection. 07:07 Dr. K reveals the shocking science behind motivation. 20:04 The tie between emotions and motivation, and why it matters. 21:52 Focusing on action over outcome: Dr. K shares what you need to do to find consistency. 37:48 The secret to staying motivated, even when you don’t want to. 42:41 Why it’s so important for you to focus on controlling what you can. 44:04 Dr. K shares motivational interviewing techniques you can use to motivate others. 52:46 How you can harness the power of awareness starting today. 1:06:01 Why it is so important for you to understand yourself so that you can move forward in life. 1:08:27 This is the BIGGEST mistake you make when it comes to success. — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@UCk2U-Oqn7RXf-ydPqfSxG5g Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostDr. K (Alok Kanojia)guest
Sep 2, 20241h 13mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:36

    Introduction

    1. MR

      What are we getting wrong about motivation?

    2. KK

      So much. The biggest mistake we make with motivation is that we try to increase it. This is what stuck-ness is. It's a lot of irrelevant movement.

    3. MR

      We do use the words, "I feel stuck, I feel stuck," but you're saying that's actually the wrong word and it's inaccurate.

    4. KK

      Yes. It's not that you have no motivation. It's that you have a very powerful motivation to not move. What's better, for you to be in control of your wants or for your wants to be in control of you?

    5. MR

      Oh.

    6. KK

      That's the question.

    7. MR

      Oh. Like now I'm like, oh, I'm feeling like-

    8. KK

      (laughs)

    9. MR

      ... you're pinning me to the wall, Dr. K. Uh, uh, I don't know. Uh... (ticking) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and I am so thrilled to be able to introduce you to Dr. Alok Tanojia, also known as Dr. K. And if that name sounds familiar, it's because he is now back on the Mel Robbins podcast. You loved him when he first appeared several months ago. Dr. K is a Harvard-trained psychiatrist specializing in modern mental health and the impact that technology is having on your brain. And what I love about Dr. K is... Well, there's a lot of things I love about him. I love how he explains these really heady topics, and I also love the fact that he has a super impressive and diverse skill set. First of all, he did his medical and psychiatric training here in Boston at Harvard, and he's also been studying integrative health and Ayurvedic mental health for over 20 years. He's the co-founder of Healthy Gamer, which is a huge mental health platform and training company. They've got over 175 employees who are dedicated to helping people overcome addictions to technology, and they also train clinicians in Dr. K's methodology. His YouTube channel, HealthyGamerGG, has over two million followers, and he's the author of the new book, How to Raise a Healthy Gamer. And today Dr. K is here to talk about all things motivation, dopamine, and tapping back into that power that you have to get where you want to go in your life. Dr. K, welcome back to the Mel Robbins podcast. Could you tell the person listening how their life might change if they take everything that you're about to share with them to heart?

    10. KK

      Uh, I think their, the way that they live life would be very different, and I think their outcomes in life would also change immensely. So I think the basic thing to keep in mind is that we don't learn how we work. We have a fundamental educational system that teaches us mathematics, history, marketing, finance, but no one teaches you, "This is how your mind works. This is where desires come from. This is how you get motivated." And, and we assume that there's nor- no formal education in this, but there absolutely is a formal education in this. And once we sort of dig into that, like what I tend to find with the patients that I work with, um, you know, people who watch my lectures and stuff like that, is we just teach them how they work. And once you understand how you work, once you understand the buttons of the controller that is you, then you can direct your character in life wherever you want to go.

    11. MR

      I am so fricking excited. So we're basically going to get a master class from you in understanding how to unlock our internal drivers, right?

    12. KK

      Oh, among-

    13. MR

      Is that what you're basically saying?

    14. KK

      ... other things, sure.

    15. MR

      You are known, Dr. K, online as the authority to help people unlock their motivation, to help them unlock more meaning in their life, but you have a really cool backstory for how you got into this field of work. Could you just tell me a little bit about, like, your story?

  2. 3:36 – 7:07

    How Dr. K has overcome failure and rejection.

    1. MR

    2. KK

      Yeah. S- so, uh, my parents moved here from India. I'm the child of immigrants. Um, I was born in the United States. Both my parents were doctors, so growing up, I was supposed to be a doctor and, uh, really didn't have my heart in it. So I wasn't motivated. Um, basically failed out of college. Like, I had less than a 2.0 GPA after my first year of college, was on academic probation.

    3. MR

      Well, did you just not go to class- Like, a, less than a 2.0, that actually-

    4. KK

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      ... takes some work-

    6. KK

      It, it does.

    7. MR

      ... to not do that, right?

    8. KK

      Yeah. So I was very addicted to video games.

    9. MR

      Oh.

    10. KK

      And, and so, like, played a bunch of games, basically failed out of college. Would play for 16, 18, 20 hours a day. And then my parents, like, tried everything. So they tried, like, punishment. They tried, like, you know, being very, like, supportive, and they just didn't know what to do because... I, I mean, even today, we don't quite understand how technology affects our brains, and it affects us so profoundly. So after about two years, uh, my dad said, "You gotta go to India." And I went to an ashram, which is like a monastery, and I stayed there for three months and decided to become a monk, um, at the age of 21. My teachers told me that I was too young. Um, they told me, "You need to go back to school. You need to get a doctoral degree, and then you can take your vows at 30." And that too was like, I was like, "You know, I wanna give up my life." And one of my, my teachers was like, "You don't have anything worth giving up. So if you wanna become a monk, you have to go build something in the world and then give it up. Like rise to the top of your profession, be- get a doctoral degree at a minimum, and then give it up if you want to give it up. But right now, you're running away. You're escaping. There's, there's nothing worth giving up." So-

    11. MR

      Well, those monks know how to just drop a bomb on you, don't they?

    12. KK

      Yeah, they really do. So, um, they ended up sending me back. So I would travel for about, uh, back and forth for about seven years and learn more advanced practices and stuff like that. Ended up meeting my wife. So turns out my teachers were very wise. Um, so the whole monk thing was not gonna work out. And then, uh, decided to go to med school, um, partially because she wanted to be married to a doctor and my, my teachers had said, "You have to get some kind of doctoral degree." So I was like, "Why not medicine?"

    13. MR

      That seems like a big commitment to try to impress somebody that you are dating.

    14. KK

      Yeah.

    15. MR

      You know what I mean? Like, "Oh, I'll go to medical school if you like me."

    16. KK

      Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's interesting 'cause that's how it would seem, right?

    17. MR

      Right.

    18. KK

      So we, we all, we have all these ideas about, you know, you shouldn't craft your life based on, on someone else's preferences and stuff like that. But I, I think it's... You know, if you're internally okay with it-... I was, I, I knew I had to get some kind of doctorate degree. I'm very interested in how human beings work. That's what I loved about India.

    19. MR

      Hmm.

    20. KK

      So what I learned in India is, like, this is how a human being works from the inside.

    21. MR

      Hmm.

    22. KK

      Not research, but, like, from, s- so the challenge with scientific research is that it's hard to apply to an individual. What I love about sort of this Eastern perspective on spirituality, it's, like, desires... I mean, if I tell you your desire comes from the nucleus accumbens, you can't do anything with that.

    23. MR

      I would be like, "What? It comes from the nuclei homon humus?"

    24. KK

      Exactly, right? So there's some neurotransmitter floating around in your brain, but it's not actionable information.

    25. MR

      Yes.

    26. KK

      So what I learned in India was an actionable way to change myself. And then came back, um, graduated with a 2.5 GPA after, like, five and a half years of, of undergrad. And then it took me about three years to get into med school. I got rejected from 120 med schools.

    27. MR

      120 med schools-

    28. KK

      Yeah.

    29. MR

      ... you applied to?

    30. KK

      Uh, over a, over the course of three years. Yeah, like, 40 a year.

  3. 7:07 – 20:04

    Dr. K reveals the shocking science behind motivation.

    1. KK

      So that's speaking of motivation, right?

    2. MR

      Yes.

    3. KK

      So I, I think when your motivation comes from the right place, then you are impervious to the circumstances around you affecting your motivation.

    4. MR

      Oh, whoa. Okay. I know we're gonna dig deep into that, but I wanna make sure as you're listening to Dr. K, you really just got what he just said. When the motivation comes from the right place, you're impervious to all the external things that are going on.

    5. KK

      Absolutely. 100%. So ended up, you know, getting rejected a lot. After two years of applying to med school and not getting in, people in my family were like, "Hey, maybe you should think about something else." Like, you know, this is, your GPA is set in stone, right? Um, but I said, "I'm gonna go ahead and do this again." Ended up getting into med school, um, went to Tufts for med school, and then also had decided to do psychiatry. So originally, I was gonna do, like, holistic cancer treatment, so I had studied a lot of Indian medicine in India and alternative medicine, yoga, meditation, all that good stuff. Um, but did psychiatry because my favorite organ was the mind. And, uh, really noticed a lack in the West of our understanding of the mind. 'Cause we do things based on population-based studies, right? So we can say motivation comes from this part of the brain, but as a human being, how do you take that fact and apply it to your life? That wha- i- is what was missing for me. Or not, uh, what I saw was missing in the field.

    6. MR

      Yeah.

    7. KK

      So ended up, um, uh, doing my psychiatry training at Harvard, down the street at Mass General Hospital and McLean Hospital. It was an awesome experience. Um, and then a couple years in, I had this kind of like, I, I had a pretty large group of people coming to me, um, wanting, like, holistic mental health treatment. So how can I conquer this depression, or anxiety, or narcissism, or sociopathy? Worked with a lot of CEOs and, and kinda high performers in, like, finance and, and places like that. Um, and then I realized that there's, like, no shortage of people trying to help this group of people, right?

    8. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. KK

      People who can pay a lot of money-

    10. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    11. KK

      ... for, like, really high-quality support and to really unlock their potential or maximize their potential or whatever. But there were a bunch of people who no one was helping, and those are the degenerate gamers. These are, like, the 22-year-olds who finish college and never get a job. These are people who drop outta college. These are people who are 25 years old, living in their parents' basement, and, like, no one's helping them. They can't pay anything. So I started streaming on Twitch and doing mental health content on Twitch, and was stunned when we became the fastest growing stream on Twitch for a period of about three months.

    12. MR

      Wow. So for the person listening who does not know what Twitch is, could you kind of explain what you mean when you're giving mental health content on Twitch?

    13. KK

      Yeah. So s- Twitch is a live streaming platform that usually streams games.

    14. MR

      Yep.

    15. KK

      So what I noticed is that in my office, I was having gamers come in, and I was, like, teaching them certain concepts. I wasn't actually doing therapy. I was like, "Here's how your mind works. Here's the effect of dopamine on your brain and your motivation and things like that." And so I just had the same conversation over and over and over again. So what I started doing was streaming conversations on Twitch. So I would talk to people and I would start teaching some of these principles, almost like a podcast, where I just, like, some random person would call in and I'd do, like, Q&A or they'd be like, "You know, I struggle with motivation." I'd say, "Okay, like, let's understand the neuroscience of motivation." So we'd kinda dig into that. And what I really discovered is that if you look at, like, people today, right? So we're being so shaped by our environment. Other people decide what kind of thoughts we have. So we're seeing, you know, companies get better at advertising, we're seeing short form content. So other people are shaping your views about yourself, they're shaping what you think will make you happy in life. So we're bombarded with all of these images of what it means to be happy.

    16. MR

      Right.

    17. KK

      Then what happens is there's a deficit. So our brain notices, "Oh, look at all those happy people over there. I am not doing those things and I am unhappy." And then they try to sell you something. And so then, so this is where there's, there's a lot of very, like, intentional shaping of people's unhappiness and then selling people solutions. So as all of these kinds of effects are going on, we don't know how to fight against that.

    18. MR

      So true.

    19. KK

      And we'll say like, "Okay, just cut back on technology use," but it's become a part of our, our work, it's become a part of, you know, it's how you keep track of, like, I get emails from my kids' music teacher to tell them a class is canceled, so you have to stay plugged in. And so we're not equipped with the tools to fight against this external environment shaping us.

    20. MR

      That makes a lot of sense. And so it's almost as if there are two pieces that we need to really dig into, and the first one is the internal. And really understanding, which I think you very eloquently explained to us, that you go to school and you learned all of these sort of subsets of skills and knowledge, ca- like, I'm not even speaking correctly, but you learn all of these subjects, but you don't learn how a human being or how you operate from the inside out. And so, uh-I think we're all scared of the way that our environment and tech is shaping us. And where I wanna start, especially given the number of people that are following you online and the kind of advice that you're giving on YouTube, I mean, millions and millions of people, Dr. K. What are we getting wrong about motivation?

    21. KK

      (laughs) So much.

    22. MR

      Oh. (laughs)

    23. KK

      So- so- so- so in the West, what we call motivation, there is no motivation center of the brain. Motivation is an emergent property. So like when I say, if I look at you, Mel, and I say, "You're motivated," how do I know that? It's because I'm observing some kind of behavior.

    24. MR

      Okay.

    25. KK

      So there's no one place that motivation comes from, right? Motivation is an internal drive that comes from motions, comes from what you should be doing, comes from issues of, like, ego and identity, comes from issues of comparison, right? So there's so many different things that motivate us. So this is the first thing, is that motivation is not a thing. It is lots of different things. And I think the second thing that we- the biggest mistake we make with motivation is that we try to increase it. And I know it sounds weird, but let's understand what motivation is.

    26. MR

      Right.

    27. KK

      So let's say you're motivated to do something. Is it easy for you?

    28. MR

      Yes.

    29. KK

      Okay, so now what happens is your actions, that's a problem. That's not a solution. It's a problem.

    30. MR

      Why is it a problem if something's easy for me?

  4. 20:04 – 21:52

    The tie between emotions and motivation, and why it matters.

    1. KK

      comes from.

    2. MR

      Okay.

    3. KK

      And we'll draw on both principles of, like, Eastern spirituality that yogis practicing meditation in the Himalayas figured out a couple thousand years ago that have now been verified by neuroscience. So let's start with when I act, right? So you're saying I, I have stru- struggled with follow-through. So that's the problem with motivation, is that motivation waxes and wanes, because motivation is oftentimes highly emotional. So if we look at the part of our brain that creates behavior, uh, our, our emotions are very powerful. So if we look at, like, what is the evolutionary function of emotions? Emotions give us information and they give us motivation. So if I feel, uh, if I feel angry, I will feel like doing something. If I feel afraid, it will motivate me to run away.

    4. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    5. KK

      The problem, though, is that emotions vary. That's the way they're supposed to be. Th- they don't last forever, right? So if I, I can have the perfect wedding day, it does not mean that I will have the perfect marriage, right? I won't be happy for the rest of my life because I have this one perfect day. So our brain has this very natural principle of homeostasis, which means that we experience joy, and then the joy goes away. And so then what we end up doing is chasing those things that bring us joy. That would be great, except there's another principle in the brain of tolerance. So if I eat one cookie, it's delicious.

    6. MR

      Right.

    7. KK

      If I eat a second cookie, it's not quite as tasty. If I eat a third cookie, now I'm feeling full.

    8. MR

      True.

    9. KK

      Right? And even then, oftentimes if I think about getting that cookie tomorrow, it's not gonna be as good as the first time I have it. So now we're kinda stuck because our motivation is gonna wax and wane with our emotions. We're trying to cultivate these past experiences over and over again to try to keep us motivated, and it just doesn't work. So what can we do?

  5. 21:52 – 37:48

    Focusing on action over outcome: Dr. K shares what you need to do to find consistency.

    1. KK

      This is where we're gonna focus on a, a principle from kind of Eastern philosophy called Karma Phala. So Karma is action and Phala means fruit. So there's a really simple principle that, um, the more that you devote yourself to your actions instead of outcomes, the more easy your life will be and the more you will be in control of your behavior. Now, this may sound weird because oftentimes in life, we are conditioned to focus on outcomes. So I don't care how much you know, I care what your GPA is. I don't care how healthy your company is, I care what the stock price is. So in our life, the way that our life is structured right now, we're all focused on outcomes, we're focused on goals and things like that. And everyone may think, "Well, yeah, duh, right? Like, that's the way that it should be." But if you stop and think about it, we have a society that is increasingly focusing on outcomes, and we also have a society that the human beings are increasingly burnt out and lack motivation, and those two things are tied. So let's understand a little bit about why. So if we're not gonna focus on outcomes, then how the hell do we get motivated, right? So let's understand a coup- uh, another thing about the brain. So we h- our brain does this thing called an action success calculation. So what it does is anytime we're thinking about doing something, our brain knows, "Okay, what's the likelihood of this to succeed and what's the likelyho- uh, -hood of this to fail?" And the problem is that if you're trying to cultivate motivation and you put in a lot of work and we're focused on the outcome and things don't work out-

    2. MR

      Yeah.

    3. KK

      ... then I won't reinforce the behavior, right? So if I say, like, "I'm gonna study really hard for a test," and I don't do well on the test, what does my brain learn about the value of studying?

    4. MR

      That it doesn't help.

    5. KK

      It doesn't help.

    6. MR

      So is this one of the reasons why so many of us give up either going on a healthier diet or going to the gym and working out because you're not seeing the results, so you start to go, "This isn't working"?

    7. KK

      Absolutely. So, uh, absolutely, right? So, so th- this is a really fascinating principle from motivational interviewing.

    8. MR

      Okay.

    9. KK

      So if we look at behavioral change-

    10. MR

      Yes.

    11. KK

      ... we have one evidence-based technique that helps people change their behavior, which is something called motivational interviewing.

    12. MR

      So what is motivational interviewing?

    13. KK

      It is a way to talk to people-

    14. MR

      Uh-huh.

    15. KK

      ... that increases their motivation.

    16. MR

      Oh my God. So can we use this with people in our life too, not just with ourselves?

    17. KK

      Absolutely.

    18. MR

      Oh, yes.

    19. KK

      Yeah. So we're gonna learn-

    20. MR

      Dr. K.

    21. KK

      Uh, uh, not, not just with people in our life. I mean, I'd say, uh, we do it in psychiatry with other people. The beautiful thing is you can do it with yourself.

    22. MR

      Oh my god, let's go.

    23. KK

      Okay. So let's understand, so this is the beautiful thing about motivational interviewing. We figured out that most human beings are conflicted. Okay? So I want to go to the gym, I don't wanna go to the gym. Now, before I go to the gym, the pain of going to the gym is a hypothetical. The pleasure of, uh, staying home is also a hypothetical. Right? So when we, when we start out, neither of these two things are realities. So I think about the gym, I think, "Here's the cost, here's the benefit." But it's a hypothetical. Right?

    24. MR

      Right. 'Cause I haven't gone.

    25. KK

      I haven't gone.

    26. MR

      So I'm just making it all up in my mind.

    27. KK

      So as I go to the gym, what happens to the pain induced by the gym?

    28. MR

      Lowers, because I'm going in, right?

    29. KK

      On the contrary.

    30. MR

      Okay.

  6. 37:48 – 42:41

    The secret to staying motivated, even when you don’t want to.

    1. MR

      today, Dr. K?

    2. KK

      A couple of v- very good things that you can do cognitively.

    3. MR

      Okay.

    4. KK

      The first is focus on the negative. Anticipate the negative.

    5. MR

      Meaning what?

    6. KK

      Meaning that if you're thinking about going to the gym-

    7. MR

      Yeah.

    8. KK

      Let's say you want to go tomorrow, right?

    9. MR

      Yeah.

    10. KK

      So what you wanna do is, "W- tomorrow when I wake up, I'm not gonna feel like going to the gym." Mentally prepare for the difficulty.

    11. MR

      Okay.

    12. KK

      So there are studies that show that predicting or, or anticipating the difficulty is a very, very important part, because that doesn't... then you're not caught off guard by it, right? You're not thinking... See, w- when everyone thinks about going to the gym, they're thinking about the positive, they're not thinking about the negative. And then when they run into the negative, the pain of actually going through the act, that, their brain gets confused, because, "I'm thinking about this as a good thing, but my experience of it is as a bad thing." So the first thing that you actually wanna do is anticipate the difficulty of the action that you wanna take.

    13. MR

      And that makes a lot of sense to me. I can give you, as you're listening, an example. I've been doing a lot of the cold exposure, climbing into a-

    14. KK

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MR

      I hate it, and I do not try to motivate myself, so to speak, or get myself all hyped up. I'm literally like, "This is gonna blow. I'm gonna do it. It's gonna be 90 seconds of my life, and I'm just getting in the damn barrel." And it, there's something about saying it that, it's almost like this sort of internal resistance lowers. I don't-

    16. KK

      Hun-

    17. MR

      How, what is happening in your body when you use this? Like, "I'm gonna have a healthy dinner tonight, and it's gonna suck. And I know I would rather have a delicious, juicy, i- like, whatever cheeseburger, but I'm going to just eat the salad and the clean protein, and that's gonna be that, and that's what I'm doing." What happens in your brain when you do step one, Dr. K, and you anticipate the negative?

    18. KK

      So, uh, the first thing that it does is it, it doesn't let you get caught off guard. So you're-

    19. MR

      Hmm.

    20. KK

      ... you, you're, you're changing your expectations from a positive thing to a negative thing, and what we know about human beings and expectations is nothing basically lives up to your expectations. So we have this imaginary capacity in our brain, and no reality will measure up to that. So the interesting thing is if you look at something negative and you say, "This is really gonna suck," you don't wanna tell people, like, who are getting injections and stuff, like, sh- like vaccines, like, that this is gonna suck, but you can tell people, "Hey, this is gonna hurt for a little while." You just want an accurate representation. Don't try to pump it up and don't try to let it down.

    21. MR

      Okay.

    22. KK

      The beautiful thing about that is that once you remove, uh, o- once you kind of bypass all of this, like, positivity and stuff, when you actually do the thing, it's usually not as bad as you expected. The other thing that you're doing, which is very, very important is you are taming your brain. You're telling your brain it's not about motivation, 'cause motivation is about gratification of the brain, right? It's like, "I wanna do this thing and I wanna feel good." It's all about positive. It's about getting that reward at the end.

    23. MR

      Right.

    24. KK

      It's about the outcome. We are separating, we are divorcing the action from pleasure or pain or anything. We are learning to be independent of pleasure and pain. My, I say I'm gonna do this, that's what I'm fucking gonna do. I do not care what my brain wants. I do not care. It's fine. Like, we're gonna do this. You do it, and this is what happens. You are-

    25. MR

      I-

    26. KK

      ... separating yourself.

    27. MR

      ... love this, Dr. K. I wanna make sure you got this, because this, to me, (taps) this is something you have to understand. I even want you to visualize it. This makes so much sense to me now that you have taught us that motivation really is about pleasure and craving and drive and all that stuff over here, and you, when you say, "Step one, I am just going to anticipate the negative. I'm gonna tell myself this is gonna suck. I'm gonna focus on what I'm doing today." And by doing that, you are literally (making a cutting sound) cleaving f- the, the, like a separation between pleasure-seeking part of your brain-

    28. KK

      And pain avoidance.

    29. MR

      ... and pain avoidance, to literally activating the ability to see that something's not gonna be enjoyable, but you're gonna do it anyway.

    30. KK

      Absolutely.

  7. 42:41 – 44:04

    Why it’s so important for you to focus on controlling what you can.

    1. MR

    2. KK

      So if you stop and think about it, Mel, what do you control in this life?

    3. MR

      Um, I control what I am going to do next.

    4. KK

      That's it.

    5. MR

      That's it. That's it.

    6. KK

      So if-

    7. MR

      I can't control anything that you're doing.

    8. KK

      100%.

    9. MR

      Can't control anything that anybody outside these windows in downtown Boston are doing. I can't control what you're thinking or how you feel. And in many ways, I can't actually control the emotions that come up, because they're just rising and falling, or the thoughts that rise and fall, but I can, with practice, focus on what action I take next. That's it.

    10. KK

      So i- i- it's crazy, right? So if, if you're listening to this podcast right now, I want everyone to stop for a second and think about what you literally can control. It is the bounds of your body. That's it. And I see this especially with women, because they are responsible for their husbands, they're responsible for their parents, they're responsible... we put so much responsibility on women for the people around them.

    11. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    12. KK

      So here you are, stuck in this world, where you are trying to get everyone else to fall in line, but you fun- it is impossible. And then we get so bent out of shape to get my boss to do this, to get my son to do this, to get my parents to do this, we're trying to control everything around us and we cannot control it. You c- it's physically impossible.

  8. 44:04 – 52:46

    Dr. K shares motivational interviewing techniques you can use to motivate others.

    1. KK

    2. MR

      How do I use this idea of motivational interviewing, though, to get people to do things that are hard? Give me the script, Dr. K. So if I'm sitting down with somebody that I really care about and, um, maybe they- they've just let their health slide. It's a, it's a partner that I have been with for a while, they've put on a bunch of weight, they've become pretty sedentary, I'm worried about their, like, happiness and just their overall state. What is the script for the open-ended question? 'Cause I, a lot of us don't even know how to freaking-

    3. KK

      Yeah, absolutely. So, so-

    4. MR

      ... open the conversation up.

    5. KK

      Um, how do you feel about your health?

    6. MR

      Oh.

    7. KK

      That's the question.

    8. MR

      And fine. Like, I'm okay.

    9. KK

      Okay. So, it sounds like you're okay about your health. Like, you feel okay about it.

    10. MR

      Yeah.

    11. KK

      What makes you feel okay about it?

    12. MR

      Ooh. Like, now I'm like, ooh-

    13. KK

      (laughs)

    14. MR

      ... I'm feeling like you're pinning me to the wall, Dr. K. Uh, uh, I don't know. Uh, I've been like this a long time.

    15. KK

      It sounds like you've been this way for a long time, so you've gotten used to it.

    16. MR

      Oh. Yes, I have.

    17. KK

      How do you feel about that?

    18. MR

      Um, I guess I feel like it's gonna take a lot of work to change things. I'm comfortable where I am.

    19. KK

      Uh, yeah, I mean, you're saying you're comfortable. I'm, I'm kind of, it almost feels a little bit more to me like resignation, like maybe it's gonna take too much work to change.

    20. MR

      Yeah. It does feel like it would take a lot. And I've tried things in the past, and I work a lot, and I'm constantly traveling for work, and I just don't have time for it.

    21. KK

      And I'm hearing that, you know, i- it must be really challenging because it takes, first of all, it takes a lot of work, and you have so much on your plate that you certainly don't have time for it.

    22. MR

      Exactly.

    23. KK

      That's gotta be tough.

    24. MR

      It is.

    25. KK

      What's hard about it?

    26. MR

      Oh, God, man. I can't hide from you, Dr. K.

    27. KK

      (laughs)

    28. MR

      Um, I feel like I'm letting you down. 'Cause I know you would like me to do something about it, and I'm tired of you nagging me about it, and I don't feel like you understand how hard it is for me.

    29. KK

      It must be incredibly frustrating to have me nagging you all the time, riding your ass, expecting more of you.

    30. MR

      It is.

  9. 52:46 – 1:06:01

    How you can harness the power of awareness starting today.

    1. MR

      place"?

    2. KK

      So the beautiful thing is that everyone assumes there's a next thing.

    3. MR

      Uh-oh.

    4. KK

      So science even tells us, and this is what the yogis tell us, that awareness precedes control. So technically, all you need to do is be aware of the conflict. So if you look at the actual... And I know this, this... People are gonna bel- not believe this.

    5. MR

      Yeah. No, everyone's like, "Dr. K, I don't wanna know this." Okay, keep going. So, so we're aware-

    6. KK

      But, but, uh, we're gonna give, we're gonna give you neuroscience research to back this up.

    7. MR

      Okay. Let's hear it.

    8. KK

      So awareness, technically, all you need is awareness. So let's understand the experience of someone who is stuck. Okay? So you wanna do something and something arises within you. You get caught off guard, right? "This is a positive thing, I should... This will make me feel good. I went on this date, I don't even feel good about myself. I'm lonely. Let me go out and make friends. I go outside, now I'm socially anxious."

    9. MR

      (laughs)

    10. KK

      "I don't wanna be here. I'm burnt out. I'm an introvert."

    11. MR

      (laughs) Yeah.

    12. KK

      "Let me go back home." So we're just getting ping-ponged around by ourselves, and we delude ourselves into thinking that going out is gonna fix our loneliness. We don't think about how it's just gonna increase my social anxiety. This is what stuckness is. It's a lot of irrelevant movement. So awareness is the most important thing, and this is what we see in motivational interviewing, this is what I see in patients. See, once you understand something, then the body and the brain will act normally. The whole problem is that, you know, w- when we, when we focus on, uh, addictions, for example, we focus on insight. We focus on helping people understand, what is the consequence of your addiction?

    13. MR

      Hmm.

    14. KK

      It is an internal understanding. Like, so if I ask you, Mel, like, you know, if you touch a hot pan and you get burned, you understand that this causes pain.

    15. MR

      Yes.

    16. KK

      The problem is that for many of our behaviors, we don't actually have a good understanding of what the consequences are. We're confused, because we're like, "What, what's... Why do I keep drinking? Why do I never go to the gym? This causes me suffering." But the...... the reason you keep doing it is because you're fucking motivated to do it because of something else that you were ignorant of.

    17. MR

      Right.

    18. KK

      Right? So everything that we do is driven by our motivation, and we are ignorant of that fact. So awareness is technically enough. There's also a really fascinating study f- about the inter c- an- anterior cingulate cortex, which shows that what we perceive as willpower, technically in the brain, this is gonna sound kinda confusing, is monitoring of conflict. So any time our brain is monitoring a conflict, this is the same thing as willpower. We think about willpower as overcoming a conflict, but technically if you look at it, the part of the brain that exerts willpower is a monitoring of conflict. And I know this sounds weird, but I- I want ev- everyone who's listening to really pay attention to this, I want you to really think about this. When you are trying to exert willpower, there is a struggle. And the moment that you fail, you stop paying attention to the conflict. If you really pay attention, you will find that as long as you are conflicted, the willpower is active. That's why you're conflicted. But the moment that you give up, the moment that the willpower wins or loses, the conflict disappears.

    19. MR

      So the only way that you can actually increase your willpower is by forcing yourself to do things that make you stay in conflict. So if you force yourself to go to the gym today, if you force yourself to not have a drink at happy hour, if you force yourself to sit in the stacks in the library and study chemistry for two hours, even though you don't want to, even though it's hard, even though it's painful, I think about this when I climb into the ice barrel. I hate doing it.

    20. KK

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      It takes, like, I feel that conflict that you're talking about in my body and brain as I'm walking to the barrel, as I'm taking off my sweatshirt, as I'm stepping into the icy cold water. I fricking hate it. And the conflict itself and that wrestling with it is what's making you stronger. Isn't that right?

    22. KK

      A- that is willpower. So let's stop and think about your experience, right? You're walking, walking, conflict, conflict, conflict, conflict, conflict.

    23. MR

      Well, the second I think about it, I'm like, "God, I gotta do this thing today." It begins there. It begins like an hour before I even do the damn thing.

    24. KK

      And so then you're monitoring the conflict, monitoring the conflict, monitoring the conflict. And as long as you're moni- so notice that even in your example, you didn't decide to go in. Do you see that?

    25. MR

      What do you mean? No (laughs) .

    26. KK

      N- so, so you said, "I, I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna do this."

    27. MR

      Right.

    28. KK

      And then you get in.

    29. MR

      Yes.

    30. KK

      Technically, you didn't dec- you didn't d- so, uh, what most people perceive, I know this is so weird, most people perceive that okay, you make a decision and then you're calm and then you go do the thing. That's not what happens.

  10. 1:06:01 – 1:08:27

    Why it is so important for you to understand yourself so that you can move forward in life.

    1. KK

      We are way too obsessed, and chances are you're way too obsessed, with fixing things. You want your life to be different, right? You're saying, "This needs to change, this needs to change, this needs to change." But that's only one part of you. There's another part of you that doesn't want things to be different, right, that wants to stay at home, that wants to sit, hit the snooze button, that doesn't wanna ever go on a date again. And if you want to master your life, you need to take control of all parts of you. You need to understand all parts of you. And we spend way too much time trying to fix our problems without even understanding where did this come from? How does this manifest? How does it affect me?So spend a little bit more time, or a lot more time, with yourself understanding your conflict. Don't even try to fix your problems, just understand them. Where does this come from? What is this, what is the experience of this in my life? Like, in a moment to moment, what does my struggle actually look like? Where does my drive to change come from? 'Cause a lot of that crap is societal conditioning and trying to keep up with the Joneses and all this kind of stuff too. A- and just spend time with yourself and understanding yourself, because the more that you understand yourself, the more you will understand that here's where the gas pedal is, here's where the brake is, here's where the steering wheel is. But without spending... See, we're, we're looking at what everyone else is doing, we're looking out, out the windshield and we're seeing everybody else driving their car, and we're not even looking inside our own car. And then we wonder, "Why does our car keep on getting into a wreck? Why doesn't it go where other people's car goes? I can see it moving forward. How do I get it there?" So, start with understanding yourself. And once you understand yourself, because you are a unique human being with a unique set of levers that control your emotions and your behaviors and motivations and all that kind of stuff, and you're trying to use other people's answer for your unique genetics, your unique circumstances, your unique karma. And instead, understand yourself first. Just spend some time paying attention. That's the one thing that needs to change. And if that changes, then you will be amazed at how easy everything else will... It'll be like dominoes, where once you understand yourself, then a lot of things will start going positive in your life.

    2. MR

      Fuck yes. Oh my God, I feel so encouraged, Dr. K!

    3. KK

      (laughs)

    4. MR

      Um, Dr. K, what are your parting words?

    5. KK

      Wow, okay. I- I would say... Hmm.

  11. 1:08:27 – 1:13:10

    This is the BIGGEST mistake you make when it comes to success.

    1. KK

      So th- this is what I would say. I think the biggest mistake that most people make right now is that their shortcomings are manufactured. That you can have an objectively bad situation in life, I'm not saying that that's the case, but the biggest take is there's the actual problem and then there's the crap that you do to yourself because of the problem. Now, one of those things is actually in your control and one of them is out of your control. The tragedy of life is that we get, get them confused. So I can't control whether I get into medical school, but I can control whether I beat myself up. And what is it that actually determines my success in life? It's not whether I get into medical school, it's whether I beat myself up.

    2. MR

      Oh.

    3. KK

      Right? And that's the only thing that we can control, because for medical school, someone else needs to agree. To get someone to marry me, someone else needs to agree. The world, I can't control the world, I can just control myself. And we're so busy trying to control the world instead of controlling ourselves that we end up shooting ourselves in the foot, 'cause we're controlling something that's uncontrollable. And then no wonder we're ashamed, no wonder we're behind, because I'm trying to drive somebody else's car. It's impossible. (laughs) It's crazy. So spend more time focusing on what you do to yourself.

    4. MR

      I think my heart just broke a little, because when you really put it that way, that we are obsessed with fixing all these manufactured problems, like trying to keep up with other people or trying to drive other people's car, and we end up just spending so much time beating ourselves up and that... You said it so beautifully, that if you only really looked at that one thing, like, you can control whether or not you beat yourself up. You cannot control whether those people are gonna hire you for that job, or whether even the weight is gonna fall off, or whether you will go 70 days or 700 days or 70 years never having alcohol. You cannot control what other people are going to do, but you can truly wake up every day and just focus on the actions that you take which are in your control. You apply again. You apply to the next job. You go to the gym again. You make a plan to go to that party tonight and have a non-alcoholic beer. And then you also can control whether or not you beat yourself up during the process.

    5. KK

      Absolutely.

    6. MR

      And how much would your life fucking change if you simply were able to focus on the actions and not be so hard on yourself? Dr. K, it has just been really amazing-

    7. KK

      Likewise.

    8. MR

      ... to spend time with you today.

    9. KK

      Yeah. You're, you're amazing at synthesizing information. I'm, I'm truly impressed.

    10. MR

      Thank you. Thank you. I'm, my head is just fucking spinning right now. I, I, I know I don't need to go do anything. I'm just, like, in the moment with you. And, uh, I- I- I'm getting really c- choked up because I really hope that as you're listening, that you take this to heart, because what I see in everything that you're talking about is how much pain we cause ourselves because we just don't know where the gas pedal is, where the brake is, where the wheel is. And these things, when you explain it and you go deep but then you kind of rise up and go, "N- n- no, no, no, just, this is what you can do," it just feels so dumb that we are hurting ourselves this way 'cause we don't know.

    11. KK

      Yeah. I mean, I, I think, uh, you know what, I get choked up too 'cause I, I see, the real tragedy of this is that it's avoidable.

    12. MR

      Yes.

    13. KK

      That's the real tragedy.

    14. MR

      Yes. Well, the real gift is that you're helping us see it so we can avoid it. Um, thank you, thank you, thank you, and thank you for being here with us. And, um, please share this with people that you love. Dr. K will make a huge difference in their life. If you got something out of this, please hit subscribe. That tells us that you loved it. Please check out Dr. K's channel and his book. And in case nobody else tells you, I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to take everything that you learned today and put it to use to help you create a more meaningful life. All right, I'll talk to you in a few days. (instrumental music) And for you sitting here watching with me on YouTube, I just wanna say, please share this with somebody. Don't just sit and watch, please do something. And take a minute and subscribe to this channel because it's really a way that you can support me in bringing you new videos every single day, and I'm sure you're looking for something really inspiring to watch, to really move you, so I want you to check out this video next.

Episode duration: 1:13:11

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