The Mel Robbins PodcastHow to Stop Doubting Yourself & Get Anything You Want in Life
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,070 words- 0:00 – 10:54
Welcome
- WPWill Packer
(instrumental music plays) There is not a person on this planet that is more deserving of success than you are. Stop saying, "What if I fail?" and start saying, "What if I succeed?" You gotta be a doer, not a talker. This is the life of a movie producer. (dramatic music plays)
- MRMel Robbins
Will is a record-breaking Hollywood filmmaker and producer. His movies, they've grossed more than a billion dollars at the box office. He has had 10 number one releases, including Straight Outta Compton, Girls Trip, Think Like a Man, Stomp the Yard, Night School, and Ride Along. What he's learned over the years is how to cultivate an unstoppable mindset.
- WPWill Packer
You are the main thing. You deserve to give 110%. Your dream deserves it. Beyoncé said no to me five times. Don't take a me-versus-them mentality. Take a we and an us. That's how you're gonna be successful.
- MRMel Robbins
What is the most important thing, you think, for somebody to do?
- WPWill Packer
One of my secrets is that... (clock ticks)
- MRMel Robbins
Will Packer in the house. (instrumental music plays) I am so excited you're here. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making the trip.
- WPWill Packer
Are you kidding me?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
I'm excited to be here. This is awesome. This is so very cool, just sitting here, being able to vibe with you. Your team is amazing. And just, I'm looking forward to conversations, what we can share with folks.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, and I also can't wait to hear what happens in the person's life who's listening and to the people who they share this with because, Will, I gotta tell you, I devoured your book. I cannot wait to unpack the stories and the lessons. And I'd like to start by having you speak directly to the person who's listening.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And tell them how their life might be different if they take everything that you're about to share with us-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you have learned, oftentimes the hard way-
- WPWill Packer
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
... if they really take it to heart and they apply it to their life, what could change?
- WPWill Packer
I'm so glad you asked that 'cause it's why I wrote the book. I have so many people coming and saying, "Will you mentor me?" Right? "Will you do a master class? Will you come and talk to my students?" And I try to do it as much as possible, but I can't talk to everybody. So I said, "You know what? What's the mentorship I wish I had? What are the secrets that I now know that I can't go and sit with every single person, but I can go out, and I can put it out in a book that I can share with as many people as possible?" It's one of the reasons I wrote it, to pour back into the community of people that have supported me. I wanted people to feel like they could be seen and heard in a very different way, not just listened to, but, like, present. I wanted them to walk into a room and not feel like they had to justify why they were in that room. I wanted them to figure out how better to prioritize themselves in a world where it's all about balance. Everything's crazy. You're trying to balance everything. We could all use some help prioritizing the main things, and sometimes you are the main thing. And then asking, "Who better than me?" Because the reality is that it helps to unlock you beyond your paycheck or your circumstance or the things around you that are constraining you. When you say, "Who better than me to work past this, to get past this? Who better than me to accomplish something that feels like it's beyond my current situation?" That's a question you gotta constantly ask yourself over and over every day, and then learn how to answer that the right way.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, let's just start right there.
- WPWill Packer
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
Four words, "Who better than me?"
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
As I was listening to you say that, "Who better than me?" I thought, "What a genius thing to ask yourself." Because that question by design, "Who better than me?"
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... actually presumes the answer-
- WPWill Packer
Yes, yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... which is, you are the person that is in the best position to do whatever is necessary-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to solve this problem, seize this opportunity-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... make this change.
- 10:54 – 19:32
Healthy Arrogance: What It Is & Why You Need It
- MRMel Robbins
your book, you have this tool that you call healthy arrogance, but I don't want to be considered arrogant. So what do you mean by that?
- WPWill Packer
Healthy arrogance is the feeling that you belong in any room that you're in, no matter who else is in that room. Okay? Not to be confused with toxic arrogance which says, "When I walk into a room, I'm better than everybody."
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- WPWill Packer
Right? "I'm a winner. You're a loser. I'm good. You're bad." That's not what we're talking about.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- WPWill Packer
What it is is the belief that no matter who's in that room, you belong there because you have something that you're bringing. You have a confidence, because that's really what it is. Healthy arrogance is an outside confidence in the uniqueness of you. The most successful people are confident. Not loud. You don't have to walk into a room and announce it, but you got to know it. You got to know, "I'm doing something and bringing something to this room that nobody else in here has. Nobody else in here can do the way that I do it." And so when you walk in with that level of confidence, now you also realize that this room, not only do you deserve to be there, but the room is better because you're in it. And then you start thinking about, "How can I help to bring up the other people in this room to prove my worth and make the room better because of the thing that I do?"
- MRMel Robbins
I love something you just said.Because it's a framing that you can hold onto. Because I, I do think that if I really unpack this healthy arrogance, right? 'Cause I was really thinking, okay, so for somebody who's, like, super insecure and doesn't have a lot of confidence.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
A lot of people struggle with imposter syndrome-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... you walk into a room, you think you have nothing to offer.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this framing, "The room is better because I'm in it."
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
That has nothing to do with intelligence or skill. It has to do with just your presence as a human being-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and knowing that that in and of itself is a value.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Is it fair to say, 'cause I was thinking about this concept of healthy arrogance, if somebody struggles with self-doubt and this inability to really see something positive about themselves, right?
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Is the arrogance actually what it takes to be bigger than that self-doubt?
- WPWill Packer
Healthy arrogance is internal.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- WPWill Packer
Not external, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Got it.
- WPWill Packer
It is not about walking in and everybody going-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, look at that Mel Robbins.
- WPWill Packer
" Oh, look at that Mel Robbins."
- MRMel Robbins
"Boy, does she think she's the shit."
- WPWill Packer
"Boy, does she think she's the shit."
- 19:32 – 25:52
Will's Mantra That Built His Career
- WPWill Packer
something.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that you're proving to yourself. Now, did anybody see it?
- WPWill Packer
Yeah, a couple people. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
A couple people?
- WPWill Packer
It came out. It did. And you know what? I actually had success with that film. We actually went out because we hustled it. The other thing I believe is that you gotta be willing to do what others aren't, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Oh.
- WPWill Packer
If you want to have what others want, you gotta be willing to do what others don't.
- MRMel Robbins
What? Say that again. That was really good.
- WPWill Packer
Yes. It is- is a m- my mantra of my family, right? It's my wife and I have got four kids, so it's six of us. We're the Six Pack. The Six Pack mantra is, if you want to have what others want, you gotta be willing to do what others don't. And so with that movie, we drove our little tiny movie city to city to city to city. We drove and stayed in little Motel 6, Super 8 motel, where whoever would have us, and we would pass out flyers. We would pass out flyers at nightclubs. We'd pass out flyers in churches. We were in the South, so a lot of times it was the same people at the nightclub that were at the church the next morning, right?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
It didn't matter. We were hustling. Nobody else was doing that at that time. So that's why we had success they didn't have. If you're doing what everybody else is doing, you're going to have the same sphere of success that they have. So you gotta be willing to step outside your comfort zone and step outside the comfort zone of other people.
- MRMel Robbins
In that story, I'm sure there were a million lessons doing it that way, and relationships-
- WPWill Packer
Right. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and everything else that you don't think about.
- WPWill Packer
I still use it to this day. That's why I sit where I sit, because of what I went out and drove my little tiny movie, you know, city to city to city, and that's how I ended up getting on Hollywood's radar.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah, there's so many incredible stories in your New York Times bestseller, Who Better Than You, and one of the first ones that I loved, and it touches on this idea of healthy arrogance, is the story about your student film, Chocolate City.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this story-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... for so many reasons.
- WPWill Packer
Very first film I ever made, I was still a student. I was in college at Florida A&M University, and we made this tiny little movie. Literally, we just borrowed money. We used, you know, film that was sitting in a warehouse that nobody else was using. I mean, we had nothing to make this little movie, right? It starred us. It starred the kids on that campus. We were so audacious, and this is where the Who Better Than You and the healthy arrogance comes in, that after we finished this little tiny nothing of a movie, we're in Tallahassee, Florida. We said, "Well, we made a movie, okay? We gotta have a premiere." That's what you have when you have a movie, you have a big premiere. We couldn't make it to Hollywood. We didn't have any money for that. So we did a premiere right on our campus, right? Use the resources available to you.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- WPWill Packer
Right on our campus at our student auditorium, and we invited all the students, right? But you had to dress up. You had to wear black tie. Mel Robbins, these are broke college students. The audacity was a little mean now that I go back and think about it, because they all went out and did it. They went and rented tuxes and gowns because we said, "To get in, you gotta be... wear formal wear." What it did was it told them, "Okay, you know what? They're taking this very seriously. So I guess we should too. It's kind of crazy, but we'll do it," right? The other thing we did, we invited all of Hollywood. We invited all the major Hollywood studios. You name a studio, Sony, Warner Brothers, Paramount, we invited the heads of the studio. My mom, I'll never forget, my mother goes, "Well, baby, you should invite Oprah Winfrey." I said, "Mom, I don't know Oprah Winfrey." She said, "You don't know all those other people. You invited them."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
"You invited this chairman of Sony Pictures. You don't know them? You invited them. You should invite Oprah." I said, "Okay, mom, I'll invite Oprah." I said, "But Oprah can only get a plus one, okay? 'Cause I don't have that many seats." So I invited Oprah. I gave her a plus one. She could have brought Stedman or Gail. Didn't matter to me, right? I'll never forget, Mel. I am standing in the student auditorium of my first little film, Chocolate City, and I'm introducing it to a room full of students who are all dressed to the nines, who took it serious 'cause I said they needed to, 'cause I said it was that important. And the entire front row is empty. Nobody's in the front row, because I saved it for all those fancy Hollywood folks. Mind you, nobody told me they were coming. Nobody responded at all. But Mel, what if a fleet of private jets showed up at the Tallahassee Regional Airport the night of my premiere? I had to be prepared. I'm standing there. The front row is completely empty. But there is not another empty seat in the house. It is standing room only for everybody else in that auditorium. And that's when I realized, "You know what? I'm not making my movies for the front row. I'm making it for everybody else who showed up and rented those tuxes and ball gowns and sat there, some stood, and loved that movie." They loved that student film because they saw themselves on screen. Hollywood couldn't be bothered to show up.... I realized I was stepping over the people that were actually in my corner ready to validate me-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- WPWill Packer
... looking for the validation of people who had brands and names and money and titles. I was looking for that external validation. How many times do we do that? How many times do we ignore the people that are around us, that are in our corner that would support us because we're trying to get validation from people that we don't even know? Because we think their validation matters, because we think they're so important and we ignore the folks that we actually should be pouring into.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this story for so many reasons and one of the things-
- WPWill Packer
(smacks lips)
- MRMel Robbins
... I wanna hover on and make sure that as you're listening is how important it is to understand, especially in life if you're gonna put yourself out there or you're gonna put your art out there, or you're going to build a business, or you're gonna use social media for a different purpose than just sharing photos of your vacation and of your kids, we're often focused on getting a person in some C-Suite or some influence or some somebody to see it.
- 25:52 – 31:49
Recognize Your Potential Starting Today
- MRMel Robbins
That's number one, but there's a second thing that I wanna make sure that we unpack. I believe that by reserving that row-
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and actually extending the invitation and having, in your words, Will, a healthy level of arrogance, which means how dare you actually believe in yourself.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Right? How dare you hold the space that maybe, just maybe somebody will show up. I believe that in acting as if you actually laid the foundation for them to be sitting there years later.
- WPWill Packer
Yes. Yes, no question.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you talk a little bit about that, please?
- WPWill Packer
Yes, because so many times we say, "The front row people aren't coming. They're not gonna support me. I'm not gonna get the deal. I'm not gonna... Nobody's gonna watch my video. The right people aren't gonna watch it. I'm not gonna create the content." You make yourself small because you think that the possibility of success feels so far away. But if you don't even open the door to that, now as I sit here, Oprah Winfrey is a friend. She didn't come to my Chocolate City premiere-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
... but I've got multiple shows on her network now. The reason that I sit where I sit is because I believed in myself enough to say, "Whether she comes or not, she should come, because what I'm doing is important enough." And I acted like it was important enough.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- WPWill Packer
Because if I had just said, "Ah, I got a little movie coming. I got a little premiere. Come wear your jeans and T-shirts and check it out and let me know what you think," people would've come, right? But they wouldn't have felt it was important. Too many times we're making ourselves small and not forcing others to realize how important our dreams and our endeavors are, but it starts with you. They're not gonna believe it if you don't. Why should I ever believe that what you're doing is important if you don't believe it? And I don't mean just believe it, I mean believe it so clearly and wholeheartedly that it's contagious. That's the other thing. The healthy arrogance is internal, but it also manifests itself in a way that you walk into a room differently and people wanna be around successful people. People wanna be around people that believe in themselves. And you can be one of those people that other people then gravitate to. Changing your mentality will make people gravitate to you that you're not even thinking about.
- MRMel Robbins
I just had this huge epiphany listening to you. You ready? And I think I can translate this into a question, uh, that you can ask yourself, kinda like one of these gut checks. You've already given us who better than me. I'm gonna give you another one. If this were really important to me, how would I show up differently than I am right now?
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
See, I think in life oftentimes f- we feel that something's important, and it could be something like you're a real estate agent. You have an open house this weekend. What does it look like if this open house is the most important open house you've ever done?
- WPWill Packer
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, you are a person who really wants to get into, like, YouTube and creating a YouTube channel. Okay. Well, what does the video you're going to post look like and sound like and feel like if it's important to you?
- WPWill Packer
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
And I think a lot of times what we do is we put in, I can just say this for myself, we don't go all in because we're kind of afraid it's not gonna work.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And secretly you know if you kinda half-ass it a little-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and you don't go all in-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... you can kinda blame that, but it was a-
- WPWill Packer
That's an excuse. "I didn't really try."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- WPWill Packer
"It's okay that it didn't work, you know."
- MRMel Robbins
But, but-
- WPWill Packer
"I didn't go all out."
- 31:49 – 35:56
How to Keep Your Energy Locked In On Your Vision
- WPWill Packer
the job is in the way, the family's in the way, the kids, money problems, there's stuff in the way. So I, I know the dream is down there, but I, I got to deal with this stuff around me first, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- WPWill Packer
And I understand that, because as a movie producer, you're always balancing multiple projects and everything's always going wrong. This is the life of a movie producer. I never get a call with people calling and saying, "Hey, just wanted you to know, everything's going great on set. We're on time, we're on bu- all the actors showed up, everything's great. I just wanted to call and let you know." I never... I've been producing movies for 30 years, I've never gotten that call, not once. Every call is some five alarm fire that's burning that is a disaster, right? So I'm dealing with all these disasters. That's how people feel in life, "My life is just a disaster, a disaster, disaster, disaster," right? So here's the thing, I believe you got to make the main thing the main thing. You got to keep the main thing the main thing, okay? And what that means is that when I am getting all these calls about things going wrong with various projects, I focus on the thing that needs my attention the most. I can't put out three fires at once, I just can't. So I have to focus on the one that's burning the brightest or that is the most timely, and while I'm putting out that fire, I already know they're going to be calling going, "You're not over here. We need you, we need you." I can't do that. I got to focus on this. Then once I do that, then I can switch and deal with something else. You have to compartmentalize that. You have to do that in your life. But here's the key, Mel...
- MRMel Robbins
Tell me.
- WPWill Packer
... sometimes the main thing is you. Sometimes the fire that's burning the brightest is you.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- WPWill Packer
If you're not okay, you can't help other people. And so one of the ways that you can kind of start to weed out-
- MRMel Robbins
Mmm.
- WPWill Packer
... all the noise is to keep the main thing at that moment the thing that you're focused on the most. So we have to protect our energy circle. Then you can start to say, "You know what? At a certain point, my dream, my long-term endeavor, that's the main thing that I got to pour into today." And you got to know the kids, the house, the job, they're going to be going, "What about me? What about me? What about me?" Uh-uh, 'cause today my main thing is my dream, is what I'm focused on, my endeavor, my next level, my third act. That's what I'm focused on today.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, one of the things that was a huge takeaway for me in your book, Who Better Than You?, is this notion of energy. It's a big thing that you talk about, keeping your energy locked on your vision. How do you keep your energy locked on your vision and what you want? Because you seem to be a master at it.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, you talk about negative energy. We all have this, "I'm going to prove them wrong," right? "I am going to show them. I'm going to show the doubters and the haters and the people that didn't help me, I'm going to show them." Right?
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- WPWill Packer
That's superficial. That only lasts so long, right? Accomplishing anything worth accomplishing is gonna be really hard. It's gonna be hard. Life is hard. It means that you have to have a drive that's sustainable beyond just, "I'm gonna show you," right?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- WPWill Packer
Because, "I'm gonna show you," that ain't lasting. What will last though is, "This is something that speaks to me that I want and I deserve and I'm not gonna stop until I get it and I'm going to get it." That's sustainable. That's not me versus them. That is you pushing and cheering your own self on towards that goal. So that's how I do it. It's not about, "Let me prove all my haters wrong. Let me show them..." That's not it. It is, "Will Packer deserves to have this thing that I'm going after and I'm not going to stop until I get it, but I also am confident it's going to happen." I never let myself say, "Tsk, it ain't gonna
- 35:56 – 39:55
Getting Others to Believe in You
- WPWill Packer
happen."
- MRMel Robbins
You also talk about this skill of enrolling people in your dream. So how do you enroll other people in your dream not by bragging-
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... but by showing your success and why it helps everyone? What does that even mean?
- WPWill Packer
You enroll other people into your dream by listening to them and their dreams. The most successful people and the most successful leaders get everybody in the room to row in the same direction.People's favorite thing to talk about is themselves. Everybody, right?
- MRMel Robbins
So true.
- WPWill Packer
Their favorite topic of conversation is yourself. And too many times, we can't listen to what other people are telling us about themselves 'cause we're too busy talking about our own favorite topic of conversation, our own selves, right? I have found so much success by listening to people and listening to what's really important to them. And when I find out what's important to them, oftentimes, there's a commonality. There's a synergy in what they're trying to do and what my ultimate goal is. And you got to know that your likelihood of success is far more likely if you have other people also working towards the same goal. Don't take a me-versus-them mentality. Take a we and an us. That's how you're going to be successful, is getting other people to buy into the common definition of success.
- MRMel Robbins
Do you have a story of, like, when you had to flip from me-versus-how-I-enroll-this-and-make-this-us?
- WPWill Packer
Every movie that I have made, I've had to walk into a studio, and I'm pitching them my idea for a movie that I want to make, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- WPWill Packer
One example is a movie I made called Stomp the Yard. Stomp the Yard was a dance movie. It was about fraternities and sororities that step. It was a stepping movie-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- WPWill Packer
... took place in college, and it was a big dance battle. Nobody in Hollywood wanted to make this movie, Mel. The way I got the movie made was by listening to the studios and hearing what they needed, and every studio told me no, and I went back again because that's just how dogged I was. Most of them told me no twice. They walked... I walked in the room, and they said, "Weren't you just in here? We said no bef- like, nothing's changed. What are you... Like, no. No again. What do you want us to do? Write it down?" All it takes is one yes, though. And there was one studio that had a dance movie that had worked for them the year prior. So I came in and I pitched my original college stepping movie as a sequel to their movie.
- MRMel Robbins
Brilliant.
- WPWill Packer
That's what I pitched, and they loved it. It got me in the door. They said, "Oh. We've been thinking about a way to do a sequel. How would you do it?" I said, "Well, we'll take one of your stars from that movie, and then he'll go and dance in a whole nother environment, and then he'll teach his style of dance to these other folks, you'll have a big dance battle, and then..." And that's what became Stomp the Yard. It wasn't a sequel. It became its own movie, but I had to get in the door by listening to them and what they wanted. Everybody's focused on, "What's in it for me?" So you use that to figure out how to line that up with what you're trying to do. That's what I did. I had to be malleable, right? I couldn't be rigid and say, "This is the only way that this particular thing can work that I'm trying to do." You got to be malleable. But if you get other people saying, "You know what? I'm trying to do this," and you go, "Well, you know what? I'm trying to do that, and if we do it together, we can all win," that's literally what I did. I told... It was Sony Pictures. I said, "Sony, we can win together because you're looking for another dance movie, and I'm looking to make a movie that's set in a world of dance, right? Even though it's on a college campus. Let's combine these." And they said, "Yeah. Let's do it." Started off as a sequel. It ended up being Stomp the Yard. That was my first number one movie in Hollywood.
- 39:55 – 48:41
How to Use “No” to Level Up
- WPWill Packer
- MRMel Robbins
You know, this leads right into one of the other things that you teach in your book, that rejection is just data, and what I love about this story is that you now could look at every single no as the ability to listen and learn-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... about what the person that you're selling to or you're trying to convince of something, what actually matters to them, because you're going to hear it in the no.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And then you just pivoted. You write a lot about pivoting. I want to read you from your book. This is page 31, New York Times Bestseller, Who Better Than You? "One of the worst sounds in the world is someone telling you no. And I don't mean let you down easy, it's not you, it's me, maybe next time soft declines. I'm talking in-your-face, no-holds-barred repudiation. 'Why me, Lord?' you might say, to the heavens. Or pivot, because rejection forces you to do one of two things, crawl into a ball of self-loathing and despair while crying, 'Why me, Lord?' to the heavens, or pivot. Do something else that just might ultimately be the right path forward. Getting turned down stings and can make it hard to see anything but the pain of the rejection, but if you can put aside your sensitivities and your ego and focus on regrouping, a no could be one of the best things that ever happen to you."
- WPWill Packer
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
It seems like this has happened over and over and over again. How has all these nos fueled your success? Like, "No." I know Beyoncé said no to you a lot.
- WPWill Packer
Beyoncé said no to me five times. So I call that the fortuitous no, right? A no that actually has value.
- MRMel Robbins
Can I ask a question?
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Doesn't every no have value, Will?
- WPWill Packer
That's it. That is literally what I want to teach people. That is what I'm trying to teach people, Mel. Every no has value, but in order to find it, you got to get past the fact that you were told no, the fact that you were rejected, the fact that somebody said, "You're not enough, you're not good enough. Your project, your idea, your contract, whatever it is, we're not doing it. We're not making it. We're not investing. We're not buying your product." You got to get past that.
- MRMel Robbins
How?
- WPWill Packer
By focusing on the why. By realizing that there's value in it if you realize why you got the no. I had a movie. It was called Obsessed.And my good friend, Idris Elba, was a star. I already had my male lead. I needed my female lead. We heard Beyonce was looking for a thriller. We sent it to Beyonce. Beyonce read it, but she said, "Thank you for sending it. I'm not doing the movie. It's not the movie for me." That hurt. I mean, one of the biggest stars in the world, I mean, if they tell you no, it's like, "Well, I must not be good at this." She told me no, but here is the key. She was gracious enough to tell me why. She could have just said no, right? And, "Get out of my face. I'm not telling you why."
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- WPWill Packer
But I said, "What's holding you back? Tell me why. What's the thing that's making this movie not for you?" And she told me. And she told me what the elements were in the script and some of the elements of the story and some of the other production things that were holding her back. And I said, "Okay. Thank you. Got it." And then I went and I adjusted my movie. And I came back to Beyonce (laughs) and she said no again.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
(laughs) And she was very sweet. And she said, "Listen. I appreciate you making changes to your project, but I'm not promising you if you make all the changes that I'm ever going to do it. So don't do it for me. Do it for you." And I told her, I said, "I am doing it for me." I said, "Because you're giving me actually really valuable feedback, because from your perspective as a big star who's considering this, like I, I may end up with somebody else, but hearing why you won't do it is helping me to adjust my project and it's actually making it better." And it did make it better. And I took it back to her, and she was nice enough to consider the project five times. By the sixth time, I had removed all the elements that stopped her from saying no. And I wish I could say I just wore her down. You don't wear Beyonce down. Beyonce is going to outwork anybody that you or I know or have ever met. Nobody works harder than her. So she would have said no 1,000 times, right? Or just said, "Stop coming back." But she considered it, and on that sixth time, she said yes. And what I realized was that I had a better project because I had gone through the process. I got Beyonce on the sixth time. I could have got Beyonce on the first time, but it wouldn't have been the same movie. Whatever your Beyonce is, your Beyonce may never say yes. However, if your project, your endeavor, if your thing is better by going through that process, then it was fortuitous. Then it was good. You're better for it. Now, I had to do a cost-benefit analysis. I had to make sure the changes I was making were making it better and were worth it for what I was going after. Beyonce was worth it. We all have to do that cost-benefit analysis, right? Sometimes somebody may tell you no, and you may say, "Okay, they're not the person for me," right? It's not worth it to make the changes that they want. But it's valuable to hear why they said they're not going to renew my contract, why they said they're not going to buy my product, why they said they're not going to hire me.
- MRMel Robbins
Or date you. Or...
- WPWill Packer
Or... Absolutely. Or date you. If somebody says they're not going to date you, you know what? That's valuable information. Rejection is data. Take it as data. Be a computer, right? Just be unemotional, analytical for a second. Take it all in. They don't want to date you? Fine. We'll never date them. But what is it about that person, that interaction, the way that you came off? What is it that we can glean from that that will make us better when we find the right person out there who we will date?
- MRMel Robbins
You know what I find fascinating about that story? That you actually went back five times. (laughs) No, I, I just want to hover on this, because first of all, Beyonce was gracious in giving you the feedback, right?
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And so, clearly, that says a lot about you and your reputation. But I think a lot of us, I think if we were in that, that situation-
- WPWill Packer
Oh, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... I might start to feel cringey-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... at, at the third time.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So, what is it about the way you framed the request for feedback-
- 48:41 – 1:05:52
Pressure, Conflict & Curveballs in Hollywood
- WPWill Packer
- MRMel Robbins
I love your stories, and so where I want to go next is, is how Kevin Hart almost ruined your career when you were-
- WPWill Packer
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... producing the blockbuster hit Ride Along.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
What happened?
- WPWill Packer
Oh, my God. Kevin Hart, we're each other's most frequent collaborators. Okay? He hasn't worked with another producer, director as much as he's worked with me, and sadly, Mel, I have not worked with another actor as much as I have worked-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
... with my short little evil friend. And I say that with all sincerity, but of course with the love that I have for the guy. We're making this movie Ride Along, it was like the first time for Kevin Hart to show that he was a star. We were coming off an ensemble picture that we had made that had, that had done well called Think Like a Man based on Steve Harvey's book.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- WPWill Packer
It was him and it was Ice Cube. Ice Cube's a consummate straight man, right? Kevin was the sole comedic driver in this movie. Everything's going great. We're there, we're shooting the movie, it's the biggest budget either of us had had in our careers. We are focused on this movie, right? One would think. Kevin comes to me, he goes, "Hey, by the way, next Friday I gotta go do a little comedy show, so I was just wondering if, uh, I could get off a little early 'cause I got the show Friday night." And I said, "All right, I'll check the schedule." I check the schedule and I'm going, "Well wait, Kevin, we shoot on Friday, we got a late night, and we shoot Saturdays. You know it's a big day because we can only get that location on Saturday, we talked about this." He goes, "Was that that day? Was that?" I go, "Kevin, you know it was that day. For a good actor, you're a bad actor. What are you doing? What are you telling me?" He goes, "Listen. I gotta go do a show out of town." "Out of town? Where?" "It's in New York." "New York? Kevin, no. You can't do the show in New York. We're in the middle of shooting." He goes, "Okay, I'ma level with you. It's my big comedy show in Madison Square Garden. It's the first time, it's a special, they're filming it." I go, "What? You have a huge comedy show in the middle of our shoot and you're just now telling me?" I realize he was telling me so that it would be so late that I couldn't-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
... cancel the Madison Square Garden show. And I had no choice but to adjust my schedule. Now, I, I had to shoot Saturday. I could not change the Saturday shoot, it was just that important. So I said, "Okay, oh my God." He could tell I was freaking out. He goes, "Will, don't worry about it. I tell you what, let's wrap early Friday. If you can get me out Friday, we'll go to New York and I'll go do the show, I'll fly right back, I'll be here for Saturday." I said, "Wait, we? What do you mean we?" He goes, "Yeah, it's important enough I want you to be there, it's a big show for me. By the way, you'll be there to make sure I get back on time." I was like, "You know what? He's got a point. If I'm there, I can make sure he doesn't get lost in New York, right?" I can go up, see the show and come back. Mel Robbins, we fly to New York, he does the show, the show was amazing. After the show, all of a sudden, I'm like, "Okay guys, time to get back, we gotta get on the jet, time to go." Somebody goes, "Well yeah, you know Kevin's already committed to the afterparty." What, what afterparty?
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
What are we talking about? What are we talking about? I gotta be on set at 6:00 AM back in Atlanta, we're, we're in New York, we gotta go home. Kevin goes, "Ah, it's just a small thing. I gotta, I gotta just walk through this afterparty. They're making me do it." Who is they that are not Kevin Hart or Will Packer, right? I end up in a nightclub with Kevin Hart, bottles are being popped all around us, the DJ is going, "Kevin Hart just sold out Madison Square Gar-" People are going crazy. I'm going, "Kevin, we gotta get out of here, what are you doing?" He's like, "Okay, let's go." Right when it's time to go, Carmelo Anthony, legendary New York Knick, walks in with a bunch of tall dudes, bottles in tow, the waitresses got sparklers and everything. Carmelo walks right up to Kevin Hart he goes, (claps hands) "You killed it at Madison Square Garden, we gonna die tonight."
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
"That's how hard we're gonna party." I go, "Oh my God, oh my God. My career is flashing before my eyes. Carmelo, we can't die tonight. (laughs) Let's die tomorrow. Let's die after I shoot the movie, not tonight. What is happening?" Literally, I end up in a nightclub with Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Hart, and Kevin goes, "Well, we tried, Will." And I said, "I will kill you. I will strangle you in this club." What I realized, this is why I call him an evil genius, is because he got me to go to New York with him because if we don't show back up in time for that shoot and it's just him, the studio's gonna be really mad at Kevin Hart and he's gonna be in trouble and he's gonna be on the hook for that money. But if the producer is there, Mel, if I'm there with him in New York, I allowed him to go, I'm complicit in this plan, it's all on me. So when Kevin goes, "Well, we tried," I realized right then, I said, "You mother... You planned this shit. You did this." I literally, I beg Carmelo Anthony, Carmelo is freaking 6'10", I am not. I'm jumping up in the club begging him to let us off the hook to get out, I gotta get him to the airport, I gotta... Carmelo goes, "All right. I'ma give you a rain check, okay? But next time, we're turning up, Kevin. We're gonna party. Get out of here." I had to get a police escort to take us from this nightclub to the private airfield at Teterboro and I literally, because I had to get there within a certain window or the pilots-
- MRMel Robbins
Oh, would time out.
- WPWill Packer
... would have timed out, right? There's only a certain number of time, amount of time they can be on the clock. I'm trying to get on a plane at like 3:00 in the morning, and so I'm like, "Guys, we gotta get there in 20 minutes." It's a hour drive. Police escort, I begged these cops, we're screaming through the streets of New York, get on the plane, fly back, we finish the scene, and the movie opened number one. You can't make this up.
- MRMel Robbins
Like you always seem to have the ability, which I think is a very unique ability, but it's a skill that you're teaching us-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to be clear about the bigger picture-
- WPWill Packer
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... and to be able to produce an outcome.
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Right?
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And, you know, th- you had another very public experience...... at the 2022 Oscars-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... where you were producing the show where that shocking situation happened-
- 1:05:52 – 1:14:15
Do the Work When No One’s Watching
- MRMel Robbins
Um, you know, one of the things that you write about a lot in the book, and I believe in this but I can't wait to hear you talk about, which is, do the work when no one's watching.
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- WPWill Packer
Hmm. We live in an age where we all are looking for immediate validation, and social media gives that to us, right? People tell you a great story and it's like, "Well, where's the pics? Let me s- You didn't post about it, right? Pics or it didn't happen." It is the work you put in when nobody is watching that makes everybody pay attention later. You're gonna get the attention, but you gotta wait.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you have a great story in the book about being an intern on a movie set. Could you tell that story and why it's so important to do the work when no one's watching?
- WPWill Packer
Absolutely. My very first movie, that movie I made, Chocolate City, when the front row was empty, I finished the movie-... I had it done, right? I'm on the set of another movie, the movie is called Ride. It was being produced by the Hudlin brothers, famed movie producers, they produced Boomerang and House Party and other stuff. And I'm interning on the set, and I walk up to Warrington Hudlin, and I have my movie, right? And I say, "Mr. Hudlin, I'm a filmmaker, and I just wanted to see if I could pick your brain." You can see his eyes just glaze over.
- MRMel Robbins
"Here we go," is what he's thinking, right?
- WPWill Packer
You, you could tell. Every... And now I know what that's like because I get a lot of people that approach me like that, and I know he's thinking, "Here's another filmmaker, I don't have time for this," or, "I'm not in the mood in the moment," until I pulled out my movie. And it was a little shrink-wrapped VHS copy of the first movie I ever made, Chocolate City. And I handed it to him, and as soon as he saw that movie, he immediately changed. And he said, "Oh, you've already done something." He said, "Oh, you've produced a movie." And I said, "Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, when I was in college," and he said, "Stop." He said, "In Hollywood, everybody's talking about what they're about to do, what they're going to do, what they're planning to do." He said, "You've got to be a doer, not a talker." He said, "This shows me that you've actually done something." Social media applauds the talkers. It gives validation to people who are going, "Well, just you wait, I'm working on this," you know, "New, new chapter loading," right? "New business on the way. Just you wait, I'm working on it." Stop talking about it. Don't be a talker. Be a doer. Everybody's talking.
- MRMel Robbins
Do things-
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and show me what they're doing.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And so, what would you say is the most important thing for anybody as... particularly early in their career-
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... or somebody that wants to have a creative job?
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What would you say is the single most important thing that they need to be doing right now?
- WPWill Packer
Yes. So, I ran a marathon last year.
- MRMel Robbins
You did?
- WPWill Packer
I did. I turned 50 last year, and it was on my bucket list. I said, "I've been talking about running a marathon, I'm gonna finally do it."
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- WPWill Packer
It damn near killed me.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
But I finished that thing, okay? I ran a marathon and I realized that a marathon is such an incredible metaphor for life. Because life is all about execution, especially if you are going into a challenging industry or a creative industry. Life is all about execution. When I stood at the starting line of that marathon, Mel Robbins, I had the perfect shoes.
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- WPWill Packer
They fit so good. I had gone, I had tried them out, I went to a custom shoe shop, I had the right socks, I had a headband, I had the right dry-fit, you know, moisture-wicking T-shirt on. I had all the things that I needed. I was so prepared, right? Being prepared at the starting line is like having a great idea. Nothing matters until you run the 26.2 miles. Having a great idea is like having the perfect shoes at the beginning of a marathon. It doesn't matter until you actually go out and execute it, till you actually go out and do it. Everybody's trying to make sure they got the right Instagram-worthy hat and shoes and tank top and sweatbands and all of that. When all that matters is, are you gonna finish the race? Are you gonna execute? That's the advice I give to people. Execution is the key. Go out and do it. And remember, it's okay if you don't start great, right? It's okay if the first act, eh, it's not as great as you wanted it to be. Even the second act, ah, could use some improvement. What are people gonna remember? How you finish. Right? When I tell people I ran a marathon, they go, "Oh, my gosh. Wow." They don't say, "Well, what'd it feel like at mile three and a half?" They don't say, "Hey, were you sweating a lot at mile 19?" Nobody says that. They go, "You ran a marathon? You finished?" And I go, "You're damn right I did," because that's what matters. The execution. We get too caught up in everything else that doesn't matter. Focus on the execution.
- MRMel Robbins
I love that.
- WPWill Packer
And remember, preparation paralysis-
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- WPWill Packer
... is real. What that means is, oftentimes we feel like, "I'm not ready to do the thing, 'cause I'm not prepared. I don't have everything lined up, so I can't take the step, I can't cross the starting line, 'cause I don't have every last element." You'll never have everything. Ever. Sometimes you gotta take the leap. You get as prepared as you can, and then you gotta go. Because, we talked about climbing the mountain, you can have the right shoes, you can have the water canteen, you can have the rope, but until you get on the mountain and you grab hold of a spot and the rocks slip, right, until you feel the cold air on your face, you don't know. You'll never be prepared enough to not take some form of risk. There will always be unknown. Some people get paralyzed in the preparation stage. That's preparation paralysis.
- 1:14:15 – 1:20:54
Choose Your Community Wisely
- WPWill Packer
it has to make X amount of dollars. Well, it has to get this number of views. No. You define success. You define success for yourself. Sometimes the fact that you got it done, damn it, that's the success, and there's nothing wrong with that. Define it for you.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this. You, as a producer, put together all the pieces for these huge blockbuster movies, and one of the things that you have to choose is the cast.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And you say choose your cast in a movie and in life wisely.
- WPWill Packer
Wisely. So what that means is that you have to constantly be looking at and evaluating your circle. I believe that people are either augmenting your energy, making it better, or they're draining it. I think it's binary. I think there is no in between. The folks around you, you have to pay attention to them, because the ones closest to you are those that can help get you to the next level or make sure that you'll be stuck in the same rut. And part of the reason I wrote this book is because when you understand that you deserve success, you understand that you deserve to be around people that also are contributing to your success, and also have a successful mindset.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I'd love to hear, how has community and having a community of supportive cast members around you-
- WPWill Packer
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... played a role in the way that you move through life, played a role in the way that you do business, and your success overall?
- WPWill Packer
Yeah, it, it means everything. I am only as successful as I am because of the people around me, because of that community of which you speak. It's my family. It's my incredible wife. She is my rock. My support system is everything. And so to the extent you can control it, you gotta know its important.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, one other thing about your career that I find incredibly inspiring, because Boston is not exactly a media town, right? Not exactly the home of podcasting.
- WPWill Packer
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
I love the impact that you and many of your friends have had on the city of Atlanta-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and really creating an epicenter for creators, for filmmakers, for producers, directors, actors, basically an entire industry-
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... outside of Hollywood, based in Atlanta.
- WPWill Packer
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I think a lot of people, like and you may, as you're listening to Will, feel this way, "Well, I don't live in LA. I don't live in New York. I don't live in London. I can't possibly do that thing." So talk a little bit about just breaking apart that excuse.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah. Start where you are, period, full stop. Start where you are. Atlanta, right now today, is the busiest on-location production hub in the United States.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow. I didn't know that.
- WPWill Packer
It was absolutely true. Yes. It was not like that when I started off, when I moved to Atlanta some 30 years ago now. It was not. Start where you are. You don't have to move to a place that has traditionally been a place where whatever it is you're trying to do works. You don't have to. Especially now, when you can get the word out digitally in ways that you couldn't before. Start where you are. Don't let the fact that you're not in a location that is conducive to the traditional version of what you're doing, don't let that be an excuse.
- MRMel Robbins
In fact-
- WPWill Packer
Start where you are.
- MRMel Robbins
... I think it's the biggest opportunity-
- WPWill Packer
Absolutely.
- MRMel Robbins
... is to not be where everybody else is.
- WPWill Packer
I couldn't agree more.
- MRMel Robbins
I love it. Start where you are, be a doer not a talker.
- WPWill Packer
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's get going.
Episode duration: 1:22:10
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode e_9UHSj0qE4
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome