Improve Your Breathing for Better Health From #1 Breath Expert In The World | Mel Robbins Podcast

Mel Robbins 0:00 (ticking clock) (upbeat music) I am what scientists refer to as a mouth breather, (panting) and I'm not supposed to be, and neither are you, by the way. It definitely signals that I shouldn't be breathing out of my mouth. You can live without food for weeks. You can live without water for days. But your breath? You can't go without it for more than just a few minutes. I fast-tracked this author and the world's leading expert on breath to come teach you and me everything we need to know. So get ready for more focus, less pain, better sleep, honestly, a better you. (upbeat music) Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm normally really excited about what you and I talk about here on the podcast, but today, today, I am so jacked up because I just read this book called The Breathing Cure. It is by this dude named Patrick McKeown. And I am still recovering from what I learned, because I basically discovered that for 54 years, I have been breathing wrong. I am what scientists refer to as a mouth breather, (panting) and I'm not supposed to be, and neither are you, by the way. You and I are supposed to be nose breathers. Why? Well, because breathing in and out of your nose, it improves your health, your focus, your sleep. It improves your mood, it reduces your anxiety, and I'm just starting when it comes to ticking off the benefits. I'm so blown away by this research and the breathing techniques that I fast-tracked this author and the world's leading expert on breath to come teach you and me everything we need to know, and this is not going to be a lecture. I will slow him down, and I'm going to ask him to walk us through breathing exercises so we can learn as we're listening. But before we welcome him to the show, I want you to just stop and consider how important breathing is. You can live without food for weeks. You can live without water for days. But your breath? You can't go without it for more than just a few minutes. Your breath is the through line of your whole life, from the very first breath that you took when you were born, to the very last breath that you'll take on the day that you die. And my mission today is to make every single breath that you and I take from this moment forward truly count, because the science is undeniable. The quality of your breathing determines the quality of your life, and I'm just thrilled that today you and I are going to get coached by the world's leading expert on functional breathing for better health. So get ready for more focus, less pain, better sleep, honestly, a better you. It is an honor to introduce you to Patrick McKeown, who is a fellow of the Royal Society of Biology in the UK. His research is widely regarded. He's an international best-selling author of 10 books on the science of breathing. He's the founder and CEO of The Oxygen Advantage. His techniques are used by Olympic athletes, top business executives, and my personal favorite, the lead singer of Coldplay. In his work with our elite military, he teaches snipers how to change mental states and keep a steady hand, which means he can sure as heck teach you and me how to use our breath to stay steady and perform our best in our day-to-day life by simply leveraging your breath. Please help me welcome Patrick McKeown to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Patrick McKeown 3:39 Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks very much, Mel. Great to be here.

Mel Robbins 3:42 Well, I want to start with what might seem like a really stupid question. Can you explain the purpose of breathing to all of us?

Patrick McKeown 3:54 Yes. As human beings, what do we survive on? You know, we, we eat food, we drink water, and we breathe

Patrick McKeown 4:02 air, and when oxygen meets with the food that we eat, it generates energy. So the powerhouse, the human organism is fueled by the air that we breathe and the food that we eat, and in essence, it's, it's as simple as that.

Mel Robbins 4:18 Well, what we're going to learn today from you, and one of the reasons why I am so excited to talk to you, is that while breathing is really simple, most of us are doing it incorrectly. And so, I would love to start with, how are we supposed to breathe, and what are we doing wrong?

Patrick McKeown 4:38 Yes, (laughs) that's a good question. Um, we would have been breathing correctly for hundreds and thousands of years, and breathing is very delicate. It's very susceptible to change. It's very susceptible to the food that we eat, the, the lifestyle that we lead, the trauma, the stress that we experience, the excessive talking, the sedentary lifestyle, you know, the office-based jobs. Many factors influence breathing. So, and for some of us, we're more prone to developing poor breathing patterns than others. And very often, it becomes a habit- Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 5:15 ... and we have to think of, it's such a vital function. You know, earlier on we spoked about, spoke about how important breathing is, and we as human beings, we can live without air for just a few minutes. And the importance of a function is determined by how soon the organism perishes when we switch it off. So, it must meet certain criteria. And people often talk about the quality of air that we are breathing, you know?

Patrick McKeown 5:40 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 5:41 Be out in the countryside, be at the seaside, don't be breathing polluted air. But what about the quantity? What about how we breathe? Breathing should be subtle. It should be light, and-

Patrick McKeown 5:51 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 5:51 ... breath should be undetectable. The p- perfect person breathes as if they do not breathe. Your breathing should be so smooth

Mel Robbins 5:58 that the fine hairs within the nostrils do not move, and if you look at the breathing of a healthy person...

Patrick McKeown 6:04 ... their breathing is nose. It's light, it's slow, and it's low. And it's pretty much undetectable. And if they do physical exercise, their breathing is pretty light for the given intensity of physical exercise they are doing.

Mel Robbins 6:17 So maybe we should start with, what are we doing wrong? What do you want us to know about that?

Patrick McKeown 6:24 Well, the foundation of breathing is breathing in and out through the nose, Mel. You know, when I'm working with, with anybody, I'll always ask like, "What does your mouth do when it comes to breathing? And if you breathe through your mouth, what part of the body moves?" So if you look down at your chest-

Mel Robbins 6:37 Yeah.

Patrick McKeown 6:37 ... and if you take a breath through the mouth-

Mel Robbins 6:39 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 6:40 ... and as you breathe through the mouth, you'll notice that your breathing is faster, and your breathing is more upper chest.

Mel Robbins 6:45 Yes. I can't get it-

Patrick McKeown 6:46 That was-

Mel Robbins 6:46 ... down. Like I feel like it stays tight, like just-

Patrick McKeown 6:49 It is.

Mel Robbins 6:49 ... under my boobs, you know. It's like-

Patrick McKeown 6:51 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:51 ... right in there.

Patrick McKeown 6:53 So, and then we have to ask, well, what effect does that have on the physiology? Well, mouth breathing, faster breathing, and upper chest breathing is activating a greater fight or flight response. So how should we be breathing? Our breathing should be in and out through the nose. And there was an American ear, nose, and throat doctor back in 1976 called Dr. Maurice Cottle, C-O-T-T-L-E. And he said that the human nose is responsible for 30 functions in the human body.

Mel Robbins 7:19 Really?

Patrick McKeown 7:19 And I, I, uh, yeah, I couldn't find his list, so I wrote my own list of 30 functions.

Mel Robbins 7:25 Really? So tell me what-

Patrick McKeown 7:26 I can go through them now if you want. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 7:27 I want to hear about some of them 'cause I think, okay, I smell, I sniff. (sniffs) I-

Patrick McKeown 7:32 Yes.

Mel Robbins 7:33 I tend to get very prone to sinus infections and bronchitis and that kind of stuff, so it also gets clogged. Those are basically the three things that my nose does.

Patrick McKeown 7:43 Yes. Um, when you breathe through your nose continuously, oxygen uptake in the blood increases by nearly 10%, and that's discovered back in 1988 by a researcher, Swift. When you breathe through your nose during physical exercise, the gas carbon dioxide is higher in the blood. And discovered back in 1904 that when carbon dioxide increases and blood pH drops, the red blood cells release oxygen more readily to the tissues and organs. So if you, during rest or during physical exercise, breathe in and out through your nose, you're going to increase not only oxygen uptake, but also oxygen delivery to the working muscles and tissues and organs, including the brain. You know, we can

Patrick McKeown 8:25 influence the blood flow to the brain by changing our breathing patterns, and it's not about taking the full, big breath. Other factors that you wouldn't consider, visual spacial awareness. So, throughout our evolution, if we, we, for example, we were in a wide open space, we had to be able to see what was ahead of us, but also to scan the environment for predators. And that's higher with nasal breathing versus mouth breathing. Memory and attention is higher with nose breathing versus mouth breathing. There's greater recruitment of the diaphragm, and the diaphragm breathing muscle isn't just for respiration, but it provides stabilization for the spine. So 50% of people with lower back pain have dysfunctional breathing. And as you breathe through your nose, you spoke about bronchitis, we have to think of the gas called nitric oxide, and this gas was first discovered in the exhaled breath of the human being in 1991. This gas is antiviral, it's antibacterial, it redistributes blood throughout the lungs, it helps to open up the airways. So people with respiratory complaints, but people who are prone to COVID. You know, when we think of the hundreds of thousands of people with asthma and bronchitis and bronchiectasis and COPD and different respiratory illnesses, why are we leaving them breathe through their mouths? And nobody seems to be telling them, "Breathe through your nose." And that was my first, you know, kind of steps into the whole world of breathing. My own personal journey was having asthma. I was a mouth breather for years, because if we have inflammation in the lungs, that same inflammation will travel up to your nose. And when your nose is stuffy, you're two to three times more likely to have a sleep problem, to snore, to have obstructive sleep apnea. And of course, this then is affecting your, your mental health. This is affecting your concentration. This is affecting your attention span. Now, you know, I'll talk about even for children. Karen Bonnick is a researcher from the United States, and she did a study in Stratford-upon-Avon in the UK looking at children from age six months to 57 months, so it was over a few years. She looked at 11,000 British kids, children who were snoring or apneic, having, stopping breathing for two breaths or more during sleep, and mouth breathing. Those kids, if untreated by age five, had a 40% increased risk of special education needs by age eight. Now, we're not just talking about quality of life. We're talking about lifetime impact of chronic mouth breathing, and 25 to 50% of studied childhood population mouth breathed. So Mel, this is a topic that doesn't even come top of the list. In actual fact, it doesn't even come on the list. And in the last few years, we've started to see a greater awareness of breathing, and probably because it's too simple, but at the same time, breathing is not that simple either.

Mel Robbins 11:19 I love absolutely everything that you said, and I want to take a gigantic neon yellow highlighter and make sure-

Patrick McKeown 11:28 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 11:28 ... as you're listening to us, you understand the single biggest takeaway that Patrick has just explained, which is, if you want to have a change in your health, a change in your stress, a change in the pain that you may feel or the sleep that you cannot get, you have a free treasure trove inside your body if you simply start to change from mouth breathing to nose breathing. And we're going to unpack what that means. I have a question about a couple things that you said. I didn't want to interrupt you, but you said that breathing in and out of your nose increases the amount of oxygen versus breathing, you know, out of your mouth.

Mel Robbins 12:20 Why does that matter?

Patrick McKeown 12:22 Well, I think it's very important. You know, oxygen is really... It's the fuel for human being, and if, for example, we are not getting enough oxygen delivery to the brain, um, if there's an insufficient blood flow or oxygen delivery, it can increase brain cell excitability. So brain cells become more excitable. We're thinking more. We're more prone to anxiety. I remember writing a book back in 2010 called Anxiety Free, and I spoke about this paper that was published in 1988. And the paper said that the brain, by regulating breathing, regulates its own excitability. And then I was listening to a podcast by the neuroscientist, Dr. Andrew Huberman, about two months ago, and he cited the exact same statement and sentence. And it's funny how things come around, but this is the importance of breathing and the importance of knowing how to breathe right. If, for example, we are breathing the way you described in... during the introduction.

Mel Robbins 13:19 (panting) (laughs)

Patrick McKeown 13:21 And that's kind of the acute panic attack. But say, for example, somebody who's just breathing a little bit faster-

Mel Robbins 13:27 Yep.

Patrick McKeown 13:28 ... a little bit harder, upper chest breathing, irregular breathing patterns. And that's present in a minimum of 10% of the general population, but up to 75% of the anxiety and panic disorder population.

Mel Robbins 13:43 Wow.

Patrick McKeown 13:43 So 75% of the population with anxiety and panic disorder have dysfunctional breathing. It's not just that stress levels change our breathing. Of course, when we are stressed, our breathing changes, but our everyday breathing is feeding into our stress levels. Who doesn't want to be more resilient? And the other thing about stress is, when we have a lot of mind activity, it's impossible to do mindfulness. We have to be absolutely... We have to think of this ourselves. The next time that we're having a really bad day and there's a lot of thoughts going through our minds, and I don't suffer from anxiety, but, of course, things happen, and that's the way it is as human beings, I can change my breathing patterns without having to be so aware of my breath to help to bring the body and mind into balance. And that's the thing about breathing. So coming back to oxygen delivery and blood flow, if, for example... even getting to the working muscles, if there's insufficient oxygen getting to the working muscles, well, we're more prone to fatigue, um, in terms of the brain, I spoke about. So, e- like, we have 50,000 miles of blood vessels throughout the human body, and our breathing is influencing how dilated or not are they. And people with poorer breathing are more likely to have cold hands and cold feet. It's not just the blood circulation in the hands and feet that's a problem. It's throughout the body.

Mel Robbins 15:02 (laughs) Uh, I feel like I might be your test, uh, case here because now I'm thinking-

Patrick McKeown 15:07 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:07 ... well, I wear socks to bed because when I touch my husband with my feet, he's like, "Ah, you're so cold." So one of the things that I read on your website and in your books that I absolutely loved was you said breathing is not just for relaxing. It is an incredible tool when you get intentional about how you breathe every day to fight stress. And I would love for you to teach us right now how to stop being a dysfunctional breather and to breathe in a functional way in and out of our nose to get the maximum health benefit.

Patrick McKeown 15:48 Okay. So the first exercise that I'm going to start off with is small little breath holds, and this is going to introduce you to a means of helping to activate a relaxation response. And then from that, I'm going to show you an exercise to decongest a nose.

Mel Robbins 16:05 Oh, great. Okay.

Patrick McKeown 16:05 Because if you have a stuffy nose, inevitably, it's going to cause mouth breathing. And then I will do breathe light and then breathe low and slow.

Mel Robbins 16:14 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 16:14 So I'm going to go from one sequence into another, and this can

Patrick McKeown 16:18 be... It, it will be no more than five minutes, and we're going to cover a bit of ground, so I think people will have to replay this. So the first exercise now that I would like you to do when the mind is racing and you're not feeling informed by focusing on your breathing, simply hold your breath in an exhalation. Take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose, and pinch your nose and hold, and hold for five, four, three, two, one. Let go and just breathe normal now for about two to three breaths or even four breaths. Not to change your breathing, just breathing normal. And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose, and pinch your nose and hold, five, four, three, two, one. Let go and now just breathe normal for three to four breaths. So you're just breathing normal. The small breath hold will help to stimulate the vagus nerve, which secretes a neurotransmitter called acetylcholine, which causes the heart rate to slow down and the brain interprets that the body is safe. And again, take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose, and pinch your nose and hold, five, four, three, two, one. Let go. Breathe in through your nose. So now you're just breathing normal for three to four breaths. And then a couple of repetitions, and I will show you how to go from this to decongesting your nose. And again, normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose, and pinch your nose and hold, five, four, three, two, one. Let go and breathe in through your nose. Also, as you hold your breath, nitric oxide is pooling inside your nasal airway. Then when you let go, you're breathing in, you're carrying this nitric oxide into your lungs. Nitric oxide is antibacterial, antiviral. It's a bronchodilator. So for bronchitis, this is your natural way to help open up the lower airways. Last one. And again, normal breath in through your nose, out through your nose. Pinch your nose and hold-...five, four, three, two, one. Let go. So now, we're going to go on to the nose unblocking exercise.

Mel Robbins 18:36 Can I ask you a question?

Patrick McKeown 18:37 Yes. Yes.

Mel Robbins 18:39 So, when you say breathe normally, you mean not like how we normally breathe. You mean breathe in and out of your nose, right?

Patrick McKeown 18:50 Correct.

Mel Robbins 18:50 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 18:50 Correct. Well, that's how we should be normally breathing.

Mel Robbins 18:53 Well, I just... You know, most of us are probably mouth breathers.

Patrick McKeown 18:56 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:56 So, I just wanted to make sure everybody's getting the coaching, that when he's cuing us to breathe normal, Patrick means in and out of your nose. And one thing I will tell you is, even after the first round of breathing in and out of my nose, and then breathing in and out of my nose, and then pinching and holding for five, I started to feel almost that sensation of going down in an elevator. Like, you really start to feel the pressure that you're not even aware that has built up in your body, start to lower. So, it had an immediate impact on me, um, and I just wanted to point that out. Is that normal to experience that?

Patrick McKeown 19:41 I think people will have different experiences. Um, that exercise is very much an exercise we do with, with people who are prone to high stress, racing mind, panic disorder. See, the thing about breathing is, we're... We as human beings, breathing is our... It's such an important function, but every time that we get into a difficult situation, our breathing changes, and-

Mel Robbins 20:03 Hmm.

Patrick McKeown 20:04 ... when we start playing with the breath, we can often relive the situations in our history. So, I'll give you this example, somebody who is coming in to me with panic disorder.

Mel Robbins 20:14 Yep.

Patrick McKeown 20:14 Every time that they've had a panic attack in the past, they've been breathing faster and harder in upper chest and they're feeling suffocated.

Mel Robbins 20:21 Yeah.

Patrick McKeown 20:22 Now, even just placing attention on their breathing can make them anxious. And if I start doing any breathing exercises that alter

Patrick McKeown 20:29 the volume of breathing and it brings on air hunger, it can tip them into a panic. So, we have to be very careful too about breathing, in terms of tailoring the breathing exercises to suit the individual. Now, the next exercise I'm going to show you will decongest the nose. However, not to do this if somebody is prone to panic disorder or anxiety, or pregnant, or cardiovascular issues.

Mel Robbins 20:54 Ooh, okay.

Patrick McKeown 20:55 Now despite that, it's actually relatively safe. So, I would like you... And do this... You know, you do e- all of these exercises, you always do them, you'll tune in to your body and do them to the level that you're comfortable with.

Mel Robbins 21:09 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 21:10 So, with this exercise, Mel, you take a normal breath in through your nose and out through your nose.

Mel Robbins 21:15 (inhales) .

Patrick McKeown 21:15 And you pinch your nose, just gently hold your nose, and just nod your head up and down, holding your breath, and keep holding your breath. Keep holding, keep holding, keep holding your breath. Keep holding and let go there, and breathe in through your nose.

Mel Robbins 21:31 (inhales deeply)

Patrick McKeown 21:32 So, when you do a breath hold after an exhalation, so if you hold your breath after a normal exhalation-

Mel Robbins 21:39 (exhales) .

Patrick McKeown 21:39 ... that will help to decongest your nose. Now, we need to do it five or six times. But-

Mel Robbins 21:43 I got worried about how much you were counting. I'm like, "How long am I holding this? Oh my god." (laughs)

Patrick McKeown 21:48 (laughs) So, whenever you're ready-

Mel Robbins 21:50 I am.

Patrick McKeown 21:50 ... take a normal breath in through your nose. Only normal. So, I'm going to have you just-

Mel Robbins 21:54 Oh, okay. Sorry.

Patrick McKeown 21:54 ... do that again. So, remember about the subtlety of the breath.

Mel Robbins 21:58 (laughs)

Patrick McKeown 21:58 Just a light breath in. So-

Mel Robbins 21:59 Patrick, there's nothing subtle about me. Here we go.

Patrick McKeown 22:01 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 22:02 Light breath in, everybody.

Patrick McKeown 22:03 (laughs) A light breath into your nose, and a light breath out through your nose. And just gently hold your nostrils to stop breathing, and nod your head up and down as you hold your breath. And keep relaxing into the body as you're holding your breath. Now, it's a very normal thing to hold your breath. Kids, if they go swimming, they'll do breath holds all the time. So, it's a very normal human trait to go into the water and hold our breath. Now, as you hold your breath here, it's activating a slight stress response, which will help to open up the nose. And now let go, Mel, and breathe in through your nose. So, the key to help decongesting the nose is to hold the breath for at least 30 seconds or so. But I would say, when you start off, always start off gentle. And just tune in on how is your body reacting to breath holding.

Mel Robbins 22:53 I'll, I'll tell you what just happened. I literally feel like my nostrils are now the size of a Tootsie Roll. They-

Patrick McKeown 23:01 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 23:01 ... widened up, and all of a sudden, it was super clear because, uh, my allergies are starting to kick in now that it's going summer to fall in the United States. And it worked that second time in particular, like (imitates explosion) .

Patrick McKeown 23:19 Yeah. No, it's a, it's a very reproducible technique. I've used it with thousands of people. And we, we had a small pilot study involving 26 people at a hospital here in Limerick, in Ireland. And the three-month follow-up, symptoms of rhinitis, which are stuffy nose, and runny nose, et cetera, had reduced by 70%. But I thought that pilot study, which was published as an abstract, I thought it would lead the way to generate some curiosity into a bigger study. It never happened. And that study took place 10 years ago. But despite that, the exercise works.

Mel Robbins 23:54 Well, Patrick-

Patrick McKeown 23:54 So, it's for people to try.

Mel Robbins 23:56 ... we're here now. We want to know, and I, I felt like

Mel Robbins 24:00 it worked. And this is... A- again, I, I, I have so many elementary questions that I'm almost embarrassed to ask this one.

Patrick McKeown 24:08 Oh, please do.

Mel Robbins 24:11 What coaching do you have for people that are so used to mouth breathing that breathing in and out of their nose is just... it just feels weird? And so, they try it, but then they keep going back to the mouth breathing. How do you make this the new default, given the health benefits?

Patrick McKeown 24:36 So, there's two parts of it, to it. There's always theory first, a little bit of theory. Um, people have to understand about the importance of nose breathing, and in comparison to the mouth, the nose does all the work when it comes to breathing. And the second aspect of it then is breathing exercises, gentle exercises. You know, just for example, starting off with the two that we just did. And we also use, we use a, a very simple tape around the mouth that's elasticated, that pulls the lips together. Oh, that's correct. Um, we actually-

Mel Robbins 25:09 I have your tape.

Patrick McKeown 25:09 (laughs) That's the one-

Mel Robbins 25:10 I have your tape.

Patrick McKeown 25:11 ... 'cause I have no samples here.

Mel Robbins 25:12 I'm gonna put it on right now, everybody. Last night-

Patrick McKeown 25:15 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 25:15 ... I taped my, uh, we're gonna get into mouth taping, but I literally-

Patrick McKeown 25:19 See, you have to stretch it, Mel, about 30 or 40%, so-

Mel Robbins 25:22 Oh.

Patrick McKeown 25:22 ... it's only when you stretch it

Patrick McKeown 25:24 that you'll feel, feel a tension.

Mel Robbins 25:25 (laughs) Oh, I didn't even take off the sticky part. Okay. So, everybody, it's like the shape of a, of a, of a-

Patrick McKeown 25:33 O or-

Mel Robbins 25:33 ... O. Yeah, and I stretch it?

Patrick McKeown 25:35 By about 30 to 40%, not too much and not-

Mel Robbins 25:38 I'm not that strong. Okay. Like that?

Patrick McKeown 25:39 Not too much, not too little. Maybe a little bit less.

Mel Robbins 25:43 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 25:43 And you're just stretching it and then placing it surrounding the mouth, and the elasticated tension should be pulling the lips together. So, it should be-

Mel Robbins 25:50 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 25:50 You should feel some tension there.

Mel Robbins 25:52 I do.

Patrick McKeown 25:53 (laughs) So, with children and teenagers, we very much use that as a training tool during wakefulness. So, because kids are kids and they get distracted and they're watching television, they're on iPhone, the mouth is open.

Mel Robbins 26:05 Right.

Patrick McKeown 26:05 But for some adults as well. So, it can be a very helpful just... So, part of this is the training during the day. So, if an adult has their mouth open and they forget about it, the tape will automatically remind them to breathe through the nose.

Mel Robbins 26:18 Does it-

Patrick McKeown 26:18 And it's all about changing habits.

Mel Robbins 26:19 It, it, it definitely signals that I shouldn't be breathing out of my mouth, like I d-

Patrick McKeown 26:24 Out of the mouth open.

Mel Robbins 26:25 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 26:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:25 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 26:27 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 26:27 Well, this is cool.

Patrick McKeown 26:27 And then during sleep, when the person is comfortable with breathing through their nose, and, you know, in terms of their nose being congested, and bear in mind, the one thing about the nose is that the w-, the more we breathe through it, the better it works.

Mel Robbins 26:40 Mm.

Patrick McKeown 26:40 But normally what happens is the nose gets stuffy. The person feels uncomfortable breathing through the nose. They switch to mouth breathing. And when they switch to mouth breathing, it increases their nasal stuffiness. So, it's, again, it's a vicious circle. So, I would also say to people that when you first switch from mouth to nose breathing, remember this is the natural way to breathe, in and out through the nose. And even if you feel a slight air hunger or a slight feeling that you're not getting enough air, and when you're doing physical exercise, initially you might feel an increased sensation of breathlessness, stick with it. Slow down your intensity of movement in order to maintain nose breathing. Or in other words, only go as fast as you can while breathing through the nose. The benefits far outweigh the disadvantages. And the other aspect of it is, if you continue walking with your mouth closed, the body adjusts to it and-

Mel Robbins 27:37 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 27:37 ... you then can do a physical exercise with less ventilation. So, it's almost as if you're training your body to do more with less.

Mel Robbins 27:45 Uh, there's so much to cover. Um, can you just bottom line it for people about what happens, like, what's wrong with breathing out through your mouth? We know the benefits of breathing in, but what goes wrong when you're breathing constantly in and out of your mouth?

Patrick McKeown 28:07 I suppose the biggest one is that you lose moisture. So, there's a 42% greater water loss breathing out through the mouth, and losing moisture, if your mouth is dry and you're losing moisture from the body, of course you're more likely to be dehydrated, but that will impact your dental health. Gum disease, bad breath, for example, chapped lips. But the other problem about breathing out through the mouth during rest is that it's a fast exhalation. And see, when we think about the body's relaxation response, it's all in the exhalation. It's not really in the inhalation. You can take a fast breath in or you could take a slow breath in, but really when it comes to activating relaxation

Patrick McKeown 28:48 during rest, it's the speed of the exhalation. If you breathe out fast, it's a stressor.

Mel Robbins 28:54 Yep.

Patrick McKeown 28:54 So, if you breathe in fast and out fast, it's a stressor.

Mel Robbins 28:58 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 28:58 It's not just how you breathe that way during stress, but if you deliberately breathe that way in your everyday, it's, you're telling the brain that the body is under threat. You're going into this fight or flight response. And of course, your brain is here to protect you, and your brain wants to get you out of the situation. So, you don't want to be breathing fast going into a boardroom meeting, put it that way, because while you're going in, in person, in physical, your brain wants you to get out of there as quick as you can. So, coming back to mouth breathing, if you breathe out through the mouth, there's less resistance to your breathing.

Mel Robbins 29:32 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 29:32 It's a faster breath out, so it's a faster breath.

Mel Robbins 29:34 And it's a bigger, bigger e-exit ramp because the mouth-

Patrick McKeown 29:37 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 29:37 ... is bigger than your nostril. And so breathing in and out of your nose, as I, if I'm tracking correctly, one of the a- added benefits is that the exhale is going through something smaller than your mouth, so it slows you down. And in preparing to talk to you, we came across that Stanford study that you cite that, uh, is on your website too, that, and I thought this was super cool, that your breath is like your brain's remote control, that there are actually neurons in your brain watching your breath. And when you start to breathe faster or out of your mouth, it signals to another part of your brain that something's wrong. And so I want to make sure you listening to Patrick and all of this research and the 10 books that he's written, what he is saying to you is that learning how to breathe in and out of your nose has extraordinary benefit for lowering stress....for lowering anxiety, for being able to focus. You not only work with people, Patrick, that are struggling with anxiety or sleep apnea, but you're also coaching athletes and high performers, because your breath, and being somebody that can breathe in a slow and steady fashion out of your nose, helps you with focus. And so, can we break down just the mechanics of the ideal normal breathing? Like, how many breaths in and out, if you're breathing normally in a healthy way, in and out of your nose, should you take in, let's say, a minute?

Patrick McKeown 31:23 So typically during rest, it's about 12 to 14 breaths. But the only caveat there is how much air

Patrick McKeown 31:31 is involved with each breath, the tidal volume. So, we can't just focus on the respiratory rate. We also need to focus on tidal volume, because ultimately, it's the volume of air that we are breathing. And if, if we breathe too much air, less oxygen is delivered throughout the body.

Mel Robbins 31:46 Hmm.

Patrick McKeown 31:46 So this is another aspect in, you know, there's a myth out there that if you want to bring more oxygen throughout the body, you take this full, big breath. But if you take this full, big breath, you're getting rid of too much carbon dioxide. The loss of carbon dioxide will cause your blood vessels to constrict, and also red blood cells to hold onto oxygen more readily.

Mel Robbins 32:05 Can you coach me?

Patrick McKeown 32:05 So coming back to your- Yeah?

Mel Robbins 32:06 Can you coach me through this? Because if I take a dic- a big breath, like if I go in through my mouth and I'm like (inhales) , I'm trying to get a breath, right? (Inhales)

Patrick McKeown 32:13 Yes.

Mel Robbins 32:13 What happens as I go to (inhales) get oxygen is my shoulders come up, and I feel my chest pinch, and I feel my stomach suck in, and I actually can't get a deep breath, because I can't get it below my boobs. Like, I can't get it down into like that really satisfying full breath. Is that what you're talking about when you talk about the flow, or volume, or whatever?

Patrick McKeown 32:36 Yeah, there's two aspects. One is, when you're talking about there, you're talking about shallow breathing, which is not ideal either. So we do want to breathe low with good recruitment of the diaphragm.

Mel Robbins 32:45 How do you do that?

Patrick McKeown 32:46 And the, the best way to do that is in and out through the nose. So if you, for example, if you place your hands either side of your lower ribs.

Mel Robbins 32:54 Okay, so everybody, unless you're driving a car, I want you to gi-, I want you to cup your ribcage, okay? Are we cupping the ribcage or we going underneath it?

Patrick McKeown 33:02 Just on, just at the base of the ribs.

Mel Robbins 33:04 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 33:04 So just at the base of the ribs.

Mel Robbins 33:05 Got it.

Patrick McKeown 33:07 And as you breathe in, you're just gently directing your lower ribs to move outwards.

Mel Robbins 33:13 Oh, how do, how do you do that?

Patrick McKeown 33:14 And as you breathe out, you're directing your lower ribs to move inwards. And the aspect is to hold your sides, because normally when people put it on their belly, they're pushing and pulling their belly irrespective of their breathing. So that's why you have your hands on your sides. So Mel, as you breathe in, (inhaling) , you're just gently guiding your ribs out. And as you breathe out, your ribs are gently moving in. Now, that's a deep breath, in the true sense of the word. We don't hear it. You're breathing in and out through your nose, and you're breathing slow, and you're breathing low. Now, we can slow it down. If, for example, during rest, we want to have the ideal breath to help to bring the body and mind into balance, that's between 4.5 to 6.5 breaths per minute. So let's practice that with low breathing for just one minute-

Mel Robbins 34:07 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 34:07 ...if you like.

Mel Robbins 34:08 Yeah, I would. Can I ask a question-

Patrick McKeown 34:11 Of course.

Mel Robbins 34:12 ...before we do this exercise? So what I'm gathering from this is that I'm a mouth breather with bad breath who's causing myself stress and anxiety, because I'm signaling to my brain with my shallow breathing that something's wrong. And that I always thought deep breathing, 'cause I practice yoga, was this belly breath. And so, I've always focused on inflate and deflate the stomach. And what you're talking about when you cup kind of the bottom of your ribs, 'cause I want everybody to get this, you can watch it on YouTube, but for those of you listening to Patrick and to me, I want you to really get this, that it's really more of a horizontal thing. You're not inflating your stomach. You're making your bottom ribcage expand and come back in. And I'm realizing that m- so much of my breathing pattern has been almost like vertical, up and down. And I hadn't been thinking about that. So that was super, super helpful. And you said that in a normal, just going about your life, you're not trying to relax, you're just trying to focus, you're going through your day, you're not trying to stress yourself out, you're getting the benefit of normal in and out of your nose breathing, you said that it would be somewhere between 10 to 14 breaths in and out of your nose in a minute. And now what you're about to show us is that for relaxation, you can do this kind of deeper breathing, where you kind of fill your diaphragm horizontally, your ribcages move out, but it's for four to six times a minute. Is that-

Patrick McKeown 35:50 Yes.

Mel Robbins 35:50 ...what we're about to do?

Patrick McKeown 35:51 Yes.

Mel Robbins 35:51 Okay, great. I just want to make sure-

Patrick McKeown 35:52 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 35:52 ...everybody's following.

Patrick McKeown 35:53 And just coming back to the diaphragm, like when the diaphragm, which is the main breathing muscle, and it separates our chest from our abdomen. So during inhalation, the diaphragm is moving downwards. And it's the movement of the diaphragm downwards that draws air into the lungs. But as the diaphragm is moving downwards, you will have some movement to your front. So you will have some belly movement, and movement to your sides and movement to your back. But I always think it's much better to focus on your sides, because very often people, when they focus on their belly, they're pushing and pulling, pulling their belly, which has nothing got to do with their breathing.

Mel Robbins 36:26 (laughs)

Patrick McKeown 36:28 And it's a good gauge of degeneration of, eh, what's called intraabdominal pressure that when you breathe in, that your ribs are gently moving out. Because this is what's giving you good indication of the recruitment of the diaphragm, and from that then stabilization of the spine.So, the diaphragm breathing muscle is really important, because when you breathe with good recruitment of the diaphragm, it's also a calming effect on the mind.

Mel Robbins 36:51 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 36:52 The diaphragm and the brain are connected, when we think of the phrenic nerve, and then we think of the mental health conditions such as schizophrenia and schizophrenic. So, earlier on, you were talking about that work by Stanford, which I think is so cool, that there's a structure in the brain that's literally spying on our breathing. Now, we can use that to our advantage. Don't breathe fast, don't breathe shallow, because you're telling the brain that you're under threat, and your brain is going to arouse you from sleep and put you into this stress mode. So, now we're talking about, well, say for example, we have five minutes to spare, and instead of just scrolling aimlessly, wasting time on our mobile phone, give ourselves a little bit of attention.

Mel Robbins 37:32 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 37:32 Getting attention out of the mind and holding your attention to your breath, which in turn is training your brain to be focused, but not just about awareness. It's also about changing the physiology. So, if you have your hands, again, just gently on either side of your lower ribs. And as you're breathing in, that you're breathing in for a count of five. So you're breathing in, two, three, four, five, out, two, three, four, five, in, two, three, four, five, out, two, three, four, five, in, two, three, four, five, out, two, three, four, five, in, two, three, four, five, out, two, three, four, five. Now, I will say, Mel, say for example if we have somebody with pretty poor breathing, and they're breathing 20 breaths per minute. I would say don't go from 20 breaths down to six all of a sudden. Gently soften your breathing, but do it, slow it down to a level that's comfortable for you. So if you're starting off, what you could be doing is maybe breathing in for two seconds and out for three. So that's slowing down the respiratory rate down to 12 breaths per minute. And in for three seconds and out for five. So during rest, we always need to think of the exhalation. It should be about one and a half to two times the inhalation, the sp- the length of the inhalation.

Mel Robbins 39:09 Could you say that again about the length of the e-exhalation versus-

Patrick McKeown 39:15 Yes.

Mel Robbins 39:15 ... the inhalation with the normal nose breathing? Because you've said repeatedly the exhalation is the most important part.

Patrick McKeown 39:25 Yeah. The speed of the exhalation during rest should be about one and a half to two times that of the inhalation. And you can play with it. Like, I'll give you an example. If I'm having a meeting that's pretty intense, you know, I don't want to go into that meeting breathing fast and shallow.

Mel Robbins 39:44 (laughs) .

Patrick McKeown 39:44 I will deliberately, s- in that situation, nobody even knows what I'm doing, I could be sitting down or I could be standing outside the door waiting to go in. I will just take a soft breath in through my nose. I don't even time it. A soft breath in through my nose, and a really slow and relaxed and gentle breath out. Because by doing that, I'm telling my brain that everything is okay. And I'm also taking my attention out of my mind-

Mel Robbins 40:10 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 40:10 ... and onto the breath to put the critical mind aside, because I want to go into that meeting, and I want to be in a state of mind that I'm fully there, that I'm listening with all of my attention, not just lost in thought. Now, I would say, don't wait until the important meeting before you start to do it.

Mel Robbins 40:29 (laughs)

Patrick McKeown 40:29 Start bringing it into your way of life.

Mel Robbins 40:33 There was a story you were going to tell us.

Patrick McKeown 40:35 Yes. So, there's a really well-known doctor from Italy called Bernardi, and he did a study back, I think it's in 2000. He looked at the breathing that was taking place when people were saying prayers of different faiths.

Mel Robbins 40:49 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 40:50 So one was mantras and the other was the rosary, which is a prayer f- from the Catholic faith. And both, whether it was a mantra or the rosary, both of them lowered the respiratory rate down to six breaths per minute. Now, I think there's something really brilliant in this, that when we think of people who were saying prayers, it wasn't just from a spiritual and psychological aspect,

Patrick McKeown 41:20 but it was also the effect it was having on their body and mind physiologically. And it's so cool, you know, that this information was always out there, and now it's time to, to start embracing it.

Mel Robbins 41:34 Well, it's one of the reasons why I asked you the question in the very beginning, "What's the purpose?" And I was thinking about it kind of from a neurological, scientific standpoint, but there's something so much deeper, that it really is the quality of your life that you have within you if you take the advice and you apply this research to your life, and you start to teach yourself how to use the tool of normal nose breathing, and longer exhales, and, you know, you keep kind of talking about this s- soft and gentle, that this is something that your body was hardwired with, a natural intelligence. And so, it's really cool that the research shows that when people are in a state of being present, in a state of purpose, in a state of deeper connection, that you naturally, your body naturally drops into this kind of breathing. And, you know, one of the things that I wonder is...... what are... Are there other specific types of breathing that people need to know about that either reduce stress or that you should use in certain situations?

Patrick McKeown 42:58 Yes, when it comes to breathing, um, you can down-regulate, which is inducing relaxation, or you can up-regulate. So, for example, if you want to stress your body and mind a little bit-

Mel Robbins 43:11 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 43:12 ... well, you could go for a jog with your mouth closed. It's a pretty safe way to do it. You could do-

Mel Robbins 43:16 Jog with your mouth closed?

Patrick McKeown 43:18 Jog with your mouth closed. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 43:19 Do you have to be in amazing shape to do that? I don't... I don't... Like, 'cause, I... Hiking up the mountain that I live on, I'm panting like a dog.

Patrick McKeown 43:26 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 43:26 I don't know that I could get up there with my nose.

Patrick McKeown 43:28 Well, when you're w- walking up the mountain, go with a pace

Patrick McKeown 43:32 that you can sustain nasal breathing. And if necessary, get a nasal dilator, which just helps to gently open up your nose. But also, breathe nice, slow, and low, because your, your ventilation is going to be more efficient. But physical exercise anyway is a stress, but it's a good stress. But it should be dosed according to the individual needs of the person. Like, I do breath holds with athletes. I will have them breathe in and out and hold their nose, and they sprint for 40 meters without breathing.

Mel Robbins 43:59 Wow.

Patrick McKeown 44:00 They then rest for 30 seconds, and they sprint again for 40 meters without breathing. Or I could have a 400-meter sprinter, and in some of their trainings, when they're well warmed up, I will have them nose sprint for 360 meters, and the last 40 meters that they have to stop breathing. So, we do exercises to stress body and mind. If you want to stress your body and mind using breathing techniques, just dip your toe into the water, and just see how your body feels. And you don't have to hyperventilate for 30 breaths and then do a long breath hold. That's doing the entire thing. If you want to do a stress, maybe hyperventilate, if you want to do it, for five breaths and then do a breath hold, but comfortable for you. We don't teach hyperventilation.

Mel Robbins 44:45 Gotcha. So-

Patrick McKeown 44:46 Um, and the reason being is because my whole thing about breathing is I want to get persons' everyday breathing right. Let's get the foundation right first.

Mel Robbins 44:54 I love that.

Patrick McKeown 44:54 And then, then if they want to do the, the, the peak, we can do that.

Mel Robbins 44:59 Get the foundation for everyday life nailed first, in and out of the nose, low and slow.

Patrick McKeown 45:07 But the other thing, Mel, is, anybody who's waking up with a dry mouth in the morning, like, there's been... Any studies that investigated nose versus mouth breathing during sleep, the people who were breathing through their nose naturally during sleep always had a deeper sleep. So, you can imagine a mouth breather during sleep. They're breathing faster.

Patrick McKeown 45:27 They're breathing harder. They're upper-chest breathing. I'll give you this example. Do the sound of a snore through your mouth, and it goes like this. (snorting)

Mel Robbins 45:36 (laughs) It does. (snorting) Like a pig.

Patrick McKeown 45:39 (laughs) That's... And now, bring your lips together-

Mel Robbins 45:42 Okay.

Patrick McKeown 45:42 ... and try and snore through your mouth with your lips closed, only through your mouth, try and snore. So, try and snore through your mouth with your lips together.

Mel Robbins 45:51 Mm-hmm. I can't do it.

Patrick McKeown 45:52 So, it's not possible. So, mouth snoring stops once we get the mouth closed. The second snoring then is nasal snoring, which goes like this. (snoring)

Mel Robbins 46:00 Yes.

Patrick McKeown 46:02 Now, if you take a very soft breath in through your nose and a really slow and relaxed and a gentle breath out, and a very, very soft, silent breath through your nose, and a relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out, as you breathe very softly in and out through your nose, try and snore through your nose. So, you will see it's more difficult.

Mel Robbins 46:28 I can't. I can't.

Patrick McKeown 46:28 So, mouth snoring we can stop once we get the mouth closed. Nasal snoring we can significantly reduce. The whole aspect in, in sleep medicine has focused on the airway, but they haven't focused on the person's everyday breathing. And it's our everyday breathing that's influencing our breathing during sleep. And this comes back to... Remember that study by Stanford?

Mel Robbins 46:49 Yeah.

Patrick McKeown 46:50 If you're breathing fast during sleep, it arouses you from sleep. Who gets aroused from sleep? People with insomnia. They're breathing fast during their sleep. Their brain is interpreting that the body is under threat, and the brain wakes them up. And they're there, 2 o'clock in the morning, 3 o'clock in the morning, 4 o'clock in the morning, thinking, thinking and thinking and thinking. And then they're waking up exhausted. And of course, that's going to affect their productivity, their focus during the day. So, you know, we need to look at the big picture.

Mel Robbins 47:21 So, how does breathing impact your sleep?

Patrick McKeown 47:28 In terms of insomnia, there's two times it can manifest, and insomnia affects about 30% of the population.

Mel Robbins 47:34 Wow.

Patrick McKeown 47:35 And 10% have it chronic. One is that we f-... We go to bed at night, but we don't fall asleep readily. Typically, we should fall asleep in a few minutes. That's an ideal situation. But if we have over-stimulation of the mind, we're not going to fall so... or sleep so readily. So, it's very important to be able to go into relaxation before we go to sleep.

Mel Robbins 47:58 Mm.

Patrick McKeown 47:58 Now, that would involve, I would say, you know, use blue light filter glasses and follow sleep hygiene. Your bedroom is cool-

Mel Robbins 48:05 Yeah.

Patrick McKeown 48:05 ... it's airy, it's dark, and all of that stuff. But also, we need to tell the body that we're going into rest and digest.

Mel Robbins 48:11 Mm.

Patrick McKeown 48:12 So, you could be sitting down. You might be watching some light TV. You might have your blue light filter glasses on. And as you're sitting there, really take a soft breath in through your nose, almost that you're breathing less air. And that's what I would like you to do. You're taking a really soft breath in through your nose, and you're having that light and a really slow, slow, slow, relaxed, gentle breath out. And then when you need to breathe in again, instead of taking your normal 100% of the breath, maybe take in about 70% of the breath in. And then a really soft and slow, gentle breath out. And the whole aim is to breathe about 30% less air into your body than what you're normally used to.... you know you're doing it correctly if you feel a slight air hunger. Now, as you do that, pay attention to the saliva in the mouth. So, we'll continue for one more minute. I would like you to under-breathe now. I would like you to breathe in a way that you feel that you're not getting enough air. How do you do that? Take a very, very soft, gentle breath in, almost as if your breath in is imperceptible. And a really relaxed and a slow and a gentle breath out. So, gently, soften and slow down your breathing so that you're taking 30% less air into your lungs. If you get stressed, just take a rest. But keep working on this, because now what you're doing is, you're telling the brain that everything is okay. And pay attention then to the saliva in the mouth. When we get stressed, our mouth tells us, because our mouth goes dry. When we are ready for rest and digest... Rest, we feel sleepy. Digest, we have increased watery saliva in the mouth. So, eh, when we alter our breathing, we're stimulating the vagus nerve, which is secreting neur- that neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which is telling the heart to slow down. The brain is interpreting that the body is safe, and the brain is also spying on our breathing at the same time, and interpreting that the body is safe. So, w- we feel sleepy, and we do this for 10, 15 minutes before we go to sleep.

Mel Robbins 50:14 Um, I know that you recommend people try this tape on their mouth, uh, when they sleep, and I tried it for the first time last night. I did not have this fancy O-ring, so I used packing tape. I know that that's probably not-

Patrick McKeown 50:32 Right.

Mel Robbins 50:32 ... what you recommend. And when I pulled it off this morning, I think I gave my upper lip a wax. But, um, I, I put it from the nose down so that the sides were exposed, and I learned something really interesting. I put the tape on my mouth so that I would be cuing my- myself to nose breathe, and it's how I sleep. And I'm a fantastic sleeper. And I realized, I sleep predominantly with my mouth closed. And my husband, on the other hand, he has this sound that he makes that goes, "Pphhh, ppffh." It drives me fricking crazy. I know it's sleep apnea. I also know that one billion people around the world have obstructive sleep apnea. One billion. How does this nose breathing improve even people's lives with, uh, obstructive

Mel Robbins 51:32 sleep apnea?

Patrick McKeown 51:33 Okay. So, obstructive sleep apnea is when the person stops breathing for 10 seconds or more during sleep. That would be an apnea. Or a hypopnea is when there's a reduction in the flow of their breathing due to partial collapse of the airways, that their blood oxygen saturation drops down by about three or 4%. The problem with sleep apnea is that it arou- it arouses you from deep sleep, but it's very stressful. It's very stressful on the cardiovascular system. There are four characteristics in obstructive sleep apnea. It's not just the anatomy. So, insomnia, that we spoke about earlier on, is one of them. So, it's very important to be able to down-regulate.

Mel Robbins 52:12 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 52:12 Upper airway muscle recruitment, getting these muscles to do their job is very important. There's a therapy called myofunctional therapy that's excellent for that. Mouth closed with the tongue resting up in the roof of the mouth, with good recruitment of the in-... the diaphragm helps to open up the airway. So, you typ- think of the typical middle-aged man. We're drinking a few beers. We're putting weight on the belly. This is im- imp- impacting the movement of the diaphragm. We're now breathing more upper chest. This is reducing lung volume, and the throat collapses more easy. Our diaphragm breathing muscle, as I said earlier, is connected with the brain. But the diaphragm is also connected with the upper airway dilator muscles in the throat.

Mel Robbins 52:50 Oh.

Patrick McKeown 52:51 So, coming back to mouth puffing, and... the, the mouth closed is really important with obstructive sleep apnea. And there are a group of people with severe obstructive sleep apnea, and people who may be obese as well, they're more prone to mouth puffing. You still need to allow them to mouth puff during sleep. And we, we were lucky with the design of the tape, the MyO Tape-

Mel Robbins 53:18 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 53:19 ... because it allows the mouth puffing. Whereas, before that, we were using 3M one-inch micropore tape, which is going right across the lips, but that doesn't allow mouth puffing and that can make sleep apnea worse in some people.

Mel Robbins 53:31 Oh.

Patrick McKeown 53:32 So, I'm going to come back to sleep apnea with taping of the mouth. Tested in mild, people with mild obstructive sleep apnea, just getting your mouth closed reduces the AHI, which is sleep apnea severi- severity, by 33%.

Mel Robbins 53:47 Wow.

Patrick McKeown 53:48 So, just with mild, just by getting the mouth closed. That's not looking at, how do you improve your breathing patterns? If you have somebody with obstructive sleep apnea and they bring nose breathing into their everyday life, they learn to slow down their breathing-

Mel Robbins 54:02 Mm-hmm.

Patrick McKeown 54:02 ... they learn to have good recruitment of the diaphragm, all simple skills that you bring into your everyday life, that will help your sleep apnea. For moderate to severe, overall, it helps when you get the mouth closed also. But for some people with moderate to severe, they need to be allowed to mouth puff. So, whatever you use as support to get the lips together, make sure it allows you to mouth puff.

Mel Robbins 54:26 Got it. Well, I'm going to make sure to tape my husband's mouth with your tape.

Patrick McKeown 54:31 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 54:31 And I'm going to stop shoving him or pinching his nose-

Patrick McKeown 54:34 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 54:34 ... when he goes, "Pphhh, ppffh."

Patrick McKeown 54:36 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 54:37 Patrick, you are a gift to all of us. You have just given us all a free tool that we were born with to activate our natural intelligence, to lower our stress, to get better sleep, to be more present in our lives, and to learn how to access the profound power of breathing in and out of your nose, low and slow. I cannot wait to have you back on. We will link to all the resources in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Patrick McKeown 55:10 My pleasure. Thanks very much, Mel.

Mel Robbins 55:12 My pleasure. Wasn't that incredible? I want to make sure to tell you in case no one else does today, I love you, I believe in you, and I believe in your ability to change your life. And how cool is it that you and I now know how to use our own breathing to change our life for the better? All righty, I'll talk to you in a few days. (beep) Is it McCowin? McCune? What is it, Donna? McCone? McCowin? McCune? (laughs) (claps) How do you, will you say it again for me? McCune. (beep) I, what are you, I, hold on one more second. I just saw Jesse say, "What am I doing? I need to do that again?" (laughs) All righty, the wheels are off because of me, Patrick. This is how it's going to roll. (beep) (blows raspberries) (laughs) (burps) That's for you, Andrea. I just had tacos for lunch, and you know how I like to give you a little gift on the mic. (beep) That was awesome, you guys. Boom, boom, boom. Great job, everybody. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. (laughs) This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. (instrumental music) Didn't you just love that? I loved that too. And because you loved that so much, I know you're going to love this episode of the Mel Robbins Podcast, which is all about the science of walking. Check it out.