It’s Not Too Late: How to Transform Your Life at Any Moment

1. 0:00 – 3:00

   Meet the Guest

   1. RRRich Roll0:00

      People change when the pain of their circumstances exceeds the fear of finally doing something different.

   2. MRMel Robbins0:09

      Today on the Mel Robbins Podcast, if you're feeling behind, you're in the right place. Our expert today is gonna convince you it's never too late, you can reinvent yourself and your life at any age. Rich Roll is a very close friend of mine, and at the age of 58, he is one of the most successful podcasters in the world, and he's also one of the fittest men alive, but he didn't start that way. What does a rock bottom moment mean?

   3. RRRich Roll0:32

      Rock bottom is what you decide it to be, because if the elevator's going down, there is no ground level. It can always go further down until you're dead. I got two DUIs in six or eight weeks of each other.

   4. MRMel Robbins0:45

      Six or eight weeks?

   5. RRRich Roll0:48

      We didn't have the 80 bucks to pay, you know, waste removal, and they took our bins away, so we would have to put the garbage in our beat-up minivan and drive it to some dumpster behind a grocery store. Almost didn't have enough money to, like, put food on the table. And it's hard to even talk about. Like, it's embarrassing. I had to suffer more and go darker, and that elevator just had to keep going down before I was really ready to wake up.

   6. MRMel Robbins1:11

      Change wants you to want it. What does that mean?

   7. RRRich Roll1:14

      People say people don't change, and I think that's absolutely nonsense. Change is hardwired into our DNA. It's the only thing that is impossible is to not change. And so the question becomes, are you going to have a relationship with your own internal arc of change? No matter the circumstances of your life, whatever is holding you back or keeping you stuck can be overcome. A life that is joyous, happy, and free is not only possible but available to you.

   8. MRMel Robbins1:50

      Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. (instrumental music plays) Hey, it's Mel. My team was showing me that 57% of you who watch here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Hit subscribe. It's free. And that way, you don't miss any of the episodes that I post here on YouTube. It also lets me know that you're enjoying the guests and you love the content that I'm bringing you, because I wanna make sure you don't miss anything. So thank you, thank you, thank you for hitting subscribe. All right, you ready? I bet you are. So let's dive in. Rich Roll in the house. I am so excited-

   9. RRRich Roll2:34

      Good to be here.

   10. MRMel Robbins2:34

       ... you're here.

   11. RRRich Roll2:34

       I'm very excited to be here. This is a long time coming. We've known each other a long time. Uh, so it lined up. It's great. I'm here. Let's do it.

   12. MRMel Robbins2:42

       Well, thank you for jumping on a plane. I cannot wait for the person that's with us right now to get to experience the magic that is my friend Rich Roll. So, we're gonna cover a lot in our conversation, but I would love if you could start by telling the person who's with us right now

2. 3:00 – 7:54

   How to Change Your Life at Any Age

   1. MRMel Robbins3:00

      what they might experience in their life that could be different if you... they take everything to heart that you're about to share from your own life story and they apply it to their own life.

   2. RRRich Roll3:13

      If you are struggling, if you are stuck, I can promise you that there is hope, that if you want to change, you can change. Because I believe that every single one of us is far more capable than we allow ourselves to believe, and that right underneath our feet is a vast reservoir of untapped potential just yearning to be released, and our job is to bring it forth, to release it into the world.

   3. MRMel Robbins3:48

      One of the reasons why I am so excited to have this conversation with you is because your life demonstrates that there is no age limit for when you can change, when you can achieve things, and in fact, I would love to have you read-

   4. RRRich Roll4:06

      Mm-hmm.

   5. MRMel Robbins4:08

      ... the post that you, uh, put out that I think is so inspiring.

   6. RRRich Roll4:15

      So this was six years ago. "I didn't reach my athletic peak until I was 43. I didn't write my first book until I was 44. I didn't start my podcast until I was 45. At 30, I thought my life was over. At 52, I know it's just beginning. Keep running, never give up, and watch your kite soar."

   7. MRMel Robbins4:38

      What does that mean to you?

   8. RRRich Roll4:40

      To me, it means that change is always possible.

   9. MRMel Robbins4:42

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RRRich Roll4:43

       And I think that we put all of this pressure on ourselves. We are in a hurry all the time to get to some place, and we're indoctrinated into that at a very young age, from the beginnings of school, where we're chasing grades and, you know, trying to get to the next level. There's always some sort of goal that we're chasing or some gold star that we're grabbing for, and we're measuring our self-worth against the extent to which we're keeping up with our peers. And so this race begins before our brains are, you know, even close to being formed, and we carry it through our entire life, putting pressure on ourselves, always believing that we're behind and we have to, we have to catch up or we're just never gonna get, like, quote-unquote there. And I think that's a real violence that we do, this socially imposed violence. And in my experience, yes, life is short. We have one precious life. We should all, you know, devote ourselves to making the most of it, but life is also long, and we're not in a race. So stop measuring yourself against all these other people and figure out who you wanna be, what it is that you wanna do, and start taking those little baby steps towards it, and it will lead you in a direction that might take longer than other people, but in my experience, that- that's okay. And this is a, you know, a tweet that I sent out. Now...... six years ago, and I don't know if I would say I'm still at the beginning, but, you know, I'm not nearly at the end right now, and I'm still-

   11. MRMel Robbins6:15

       But you're at the beginning of something.

   12. RRRich Roll6:16

       Yeah, well, I'm, y- yeah, I'm n- we're al- we're always at the beginning of something, you know?

   13. MRMel Robbins6:20

       Yes.

   14. RRRich Roll6:21

       You know, growth, change, evolution, transformation, this is a, this is a lifelong, you know, path that we're on. So, there's always something to learn, there's always a way to grow.

   15. MRMel Robbins6:29

       Well, and I cannot wait to get into your story and the lessons learned, like me, the hard way, and the mistakes made and the wisdom that you gained from it. Eh, but before we do, I, I would love to have you talk directly to the person who's either listening or watching right now, and it's so easy in life to get to this point where like, "I blew it, 25-"

   16. RRRich Roll6:52

       Mm-hmm.

   17. MRMel Robbins6:53

       "... majored in the wrong thing, did the wrong thing, you know, missed the window, 30, 40." Like, for somebody, whatever age they are, saying, "It's too late," what do you wanna tell them?

   18. RRRich Roll7:05

       It's not too late. This is a story-

   19. MRMel Robbins7:07

       (laughs)

   20. RRRich Roll7:07

       ... that we've been fed, that we internalize and delude ourselves into believing, but it's just that, it's a story. When you can step back and deconstruct, deconstruct it, you realize it's insane. It's a template that's been laid on top of you that I think is deranging our minds in a very violent way that makes us feel bad about ourselves. It's not too late. There's always a possibility for you to move in a new direction or change the trajectory of your life wholesale, or even make those micro-changes that are gonna, kind of, just shift your trajectory just enough to lead you in a direction that is gonna be, you know, kind of, more personally fulfilling for you.

   21. MRMel Robbins7:50

       I love this, Rich. I absolutely love this. You have such an incredible

3. 7:54 – 17:32

   Rich’s Story of Reinvention

   1. MRMel Robbins7:55

      story. You've been named one of the 25 fittest men in the world by Men's Fitness. You, you literally raised, I, if you weren't watching on YouTube, Rich put his arms out just a minute ago. Your wingspan is nuts. Like, I bet your arms went across the screen and disappeared across the YouTube screen here. And so, I didn't realize that your wing... I, I realized you were a swimmer dude, but-

   2. RRRich Roll8:18

      True. I don't even, I never even knew that, by the way, I love that.

   3. MRMel Robbins8:19

      Oh, you, like, you went like this-

   4. RRRich Roll8:21

      (laughs)

   5. MRMel Robbins8:21

      ... I'm like, "Is he about to take flight?"

   6. RRRich Roll8:22

      Too, too high.

   7. MRMel Robbins8:22

      This man is like, at least like, I don't know what a big bird is, but he's like a bi- he, I mean, unbelievable. And you say, though, as a kid, that you were shy, insecure, and bullied? So, tell me about that.

   8. RRRich Roll8:36

      Yeah. I was a very, um, scared and afraid young person, uh, who was bullied considerably through elementary school and junior high school and high school. Um-

   9. MRMel Robbins8:51

      What did they pick on you about? 'Cause I look at you now, I'm like, "Man, what a handsome guy. He's, like, got it together."

   10. RRRich Roll8:55

       Let me, I'll, I'll tell you- (laughs)

   11. MRMel Robbins8:55

       "He got the beard, dude." Like... (laughs)

   12. RRRich Roll8:57

       Let me paint the picture. (laughs) Okay? Imagine, you know, the, the 10, 12-year-old version of me, uh, y- you know, giant, thick Coke bottle glasses. Not only that, a patch on one eye, 'cause I have a l- I have a weak left eye that kind of wanders. So-

   13. MRMel Robbins9:15

       So they, they literally covered it?

   14. RRRich Roll9:16

       Do you remember in the '70s... Yeah, they put a patch on. It was like, they, they put a patch on your strong eye, and the idea is it will strengthen your weak eye. So, I had to wear a patch on one eye, and then on top of that, I had the headgear orthodontia with the, with the, with the-

   15. MRMel Robbins9:30

       (laughs)

   16. RRRich Roll9:30

       ... wires coming out of the mouth and the strap, you know, behind your back.

   17. MRMel Robbins9:34

       (laughs)

   18. RRRich Roll9:34

       So, I was not a vision for you, Mel, hardly. Uh-

   19. MRMel Robbins9:39

       (laughs) Well, I don't know, I had a Dorothy Hamill haircut and buck teeth, so you might've been just my type, Rich.

   20. RRRich Roll9:45

       Yeah.

   21. MRMel Robbins9:45

       (laughs)

   22. RRRich Roll9:45

       It's hard to be young.

   23. MRMel Robbins9:46

       (laughs)

   24. RRRich Roll9:47

       It's hard to be young. So yeah, I was bullied, and I think those experiences made me withdraw socially and made me very insecure about my behavior and my appearance. And my solution to that was just to kind of fade into the background.

   25. MRMel Robbins10:02

       Mm.

   26. RRRich Roll10:03

       At least initially.

   27. MRMel Robbins10:05

       How did that experience shape who you are today?

   28. RRRich Roll10:10

       It made me a people pleasing, approval addicted, uh, person who would literally morph to fit the occasion in order to get love and approval.

   29. MRMel Robbins10:28

       Mm.

   30. RRRich Roll10:28

       And I think layered on top of that, being raised in, in a family in which expectations ran high, I intuited that love is transactional, that I'm not entitled to it, and the only way to get it is to somehow figure out how to distinguish myself, to achieve things, to figure out how to be special, and to commit myself to extrinsic external rewards. 'Cause otherwise, I was unworthy of love-
4. 17:32 – 25:46

   What Alcohol Was Really Covering Up

   1. RRRich Roll17:32

      life.

   2. MRMel Robbins17:32

      Well, you mentioned alcohol. You've been very open about your relationship with alcohol, addiction, the role that it played in your life, and this kind of life-changing breakdown that you had. How did it all begin?

   3. RRRich Roll17:48

      Yeah. I mean, first of all, I never got in trouble in high school. Like, I was a goody-goody. I was waking up at 4:30 every morning and going to swim practice for an hour and a half, and then going to school, and then going to, back to the pool for two more hours, and then studying, and then lights out at 9:00. I n- I didn't go to parties. I wasn't invited to the parties anyway. (laughs) And so my career with alcohol didn't start until a little bit later than, th- than it does for a lot of people, um, around the time I was...... 2021. And when I got my first buzz, I suddenly felt comfortable in my own skin for the very first time. Like that low-grade dissonance or discomfort that you've had your whole life, that you don't e- you don't even know that it could feel any different than that, like evaporated. And it just felt like I was being wrapped in a warm blanket and being told that everything was okay. And all I remember about that is just that I wanted to feel that way all the time. And I thought that I, I had found the solution for my life. But alcohol, you know, getting drunk was really fun and it solved a lot of my social anxiety, and it taught me how to be a social creature and talk to a girl and go to a party and crack a joke and look somebody in the eye. Like, I felt like it was an (laughs) education in how to be a social animal. But as any alcoholic will tell you, it's not long before the veneer cracks and your life starts to get progressively more chaotic and more unmanageable.

   4. MRMel Robbins19:26

      One of the things that I also love about the way that you talk about addiction is that it's way beyond alcohol. Let... People can become addicted to lots of different things, whether it's to busyness, to drugs, to video games, to toxic relationships, to chaos in their lives. Can you talk a little bit more about that just to widen the spectrum?

   5. RRRich Roll19:49

      I've been, uh, in recovery for a long time. I've seen people get sober, I've seen people die. And what I've taken, of the many things I've taken from this experience, is, is a conviction that addiction is very much a spectrum disease, and it's a disease in which we put all this focus on the behavior or the substance, alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex and love, but these are not the problem. These are the solution to the problem. When you remove alcohol from an alcoholic's life, you're basically forcing that person to break up with their best friend, their reliable-

   6. MRMel Robbins20:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RRRich Roll20:36

      ... coping strategy for life. And what you're left with is a raw nerve of a human being-

   8. MRMel Robbins20:42

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RRRich Roll20:42

      ... that then has to be healed. And I think we have traditionally thought of addiction in the context of these, these behaviors and substances, um, but I think that's a very restrictive definition. I think, to some degree or another on this spectrum, we can all relate to behaviors that we feel powerless to change or overcome, or compulsions we know are leading us astray and yet we keep doing it and doing it despite wreaking havoc on our lives.

   10. MRMel Robbins21:13

       When you said the word compulsion, like there are these things that you keep doing that you can't stop yourself from doing, it thou- i- it made me think of a number of things, whether it was like the wildly violent and self-destructive behavior when I was in college and law school, undiagnosed trauma, undiagnosed ADHD, didn't even know I had anxiety yet, and I was a liar, I cheated on boyfriends, like, just excessive drinking, and I would always wake up the next day and be like, "I'm not doing that again." And then I would feel just compelled to do it again and the trap of that. But I've never th- I'd never thought about it on the spectrum of the disease of addiction. But you're right, because it became this thing that I kept saying, "I'm not gonna do this again." And then I would do it again, and then I would feel so shitty about myself, and then I would say, "I'm not gonna do it again." And then I would do it again.

   11. RRRich Roll22:12

       Yeah, that's powerlessness.

   12. MRMel Robbins22:14

       Yes.

   13. RRRich Roll22:14

       Right? Uh, that is a taste of the powerlessness of somebody who's caught in the throes of an addiction they can't control and their life is spiraling, you know, and un- un- and unmanageable. I'm very grateful that I had a pretty severe case of alcoholism because it turned my life into such a chaotic disaster that I was left with no choice if I wanted to live that I was gonna have to contend with it and, and figure out a way forward. But I think most people on the spectrum, whether it's some kind of errant behavior like they keep getting involved in the, the, with the wrong person in a romantic relationship and are confused why it's always ending up in a terrible result or, or the person who can't put down their phone or is compulsively online shopping or comparing themselves to, you know, beautiful men and women on social media, all the way to the person who can't pull the needle out of their arm. Having a severe case of addiction really is a gift because you c- (laughs) you're gonna have to face it, right? Whereas if you have a low-grade version of it, you could live out the remainder of your life never getting bad enough that you're compelled to look at it.

   14. MRMel Robbins23:26

       You know, you were saying that it got absolutely disastrous, and at the height of your addiction, you write about how your parents stopped talking to you. I would love to just have you explain like what a day in your life looked like and how bad it got. Because I think when you look at you now, and you're like, "Yeah, it got really bad."

   15. RRRich Roll23:45

       Mm-hmm.

   16. MRMel Robbins23:45

       "And thankful." Like, I don't... Unless you've ever experienced it yourself or you have somebody that you love, it's hard to even imagine what that actually looks like.

   17. RRRich Roll23:55

       Yeah. I mean, I would say that my drunkolog is not sexy. It's not rock and roll. It's pretty boilerplate and banal. I was sleeping on a bare mattress in an unfurnished bedroom, unfurnished apartment, uh, drinking round the clock. Like, I would wake up hungover, uh, having hallucinations and bed spins and, you know, like night sweats.... and the only way I could make that go away was to make myself a vodka tonic and drink it in the shower in the morning, and then I would feel better. Not, like, drunk, just normal. Get dressed, get in the car with a tall boy between my legs and drive across Los Angeles, and I would literally go to work as a lawyer. And then at lunchtime, I would go sneak out to some restaurant or bar where I could, like, drink, get a- get a couple more drinks in me to make it through the end of the day. Like, there's no way that was gonna last, right? And it didn't last. Uh, and then as soon as I could escape from work, having done the least amount possible, I would stop at a liquor store on the way home and I would get drunk by myself in my apartment, and then I would go out to some bar by myself. There was nothing social about it, you know? It was by myself, just sad, lonely, pathetic, and it would always end up the same, which is in a blackout or- or in a situation that involved the cops and jail. Like, that's how it ultimately all kind of came to a head for me.

   18. MRMel Robbins25:33

       You had a number of DUIs before you hit rock bottom. Like, what ultimately had you hit that moment in your life where you changed?

5. 25:46 – 33:10

   Inside Rich’s Journey to Sobriety

   1. MRMel Robbins25:46

   2. RRRich Roll25:46

      I got two DUIs in a period of, like, I think it was, like, six or eight weeks of each other. Like-

   3. MRMel Robbins25:52

      Six or eight weeks?

   4. RRRich Roll25:53

      Like, blowing insanely high numbers, one of which involved me rear-ending an old woman at an intersection, the second of which involved me driving the wrong way down a one-way street, you know, both ending up in jail. And then having those two DUIs stacked on top of each other, um, going into court, like, I was looking at jail time. But that was not my bottom, and I didn't get sober in a sustainable way after that. I had to suffer more and go darker, and- and that elevator just had to keep going down before I was really ready to wake up, which, you know, is a conversation around rock bottoms and- and- and what that really means.

   5. MRMel Robbins26:34

      What does a rock bottom moment mean?

   6. RRRich Roll26:37

      Your rock bottom is what you decide it to be because if the elevator's going down, there's alwa- there is no ground level. It can always go further down until you're dead. People change when the pain of their circumstances exceeds the fear of finally doing something different.

   7. MRMel Robbins26:57

      Right.

   8. RRRich Roll26:57

      So that's how I think about rock bottom. When you're in that space, you're burst with a willingness that you didn't have prior.

   9. MRMel Robbins27:09

      You know, I- I think a lot about a couple people in my life that are really struggling, and the one phrase that I say, because I know you can't make someone change, I always say, "Do you wanna get worse before you get better?"

   10. RRRich Roll27:25

       Mm-hmm. But here's the thing, when you're- when you're in a shitty headspace-

   11. MRMel Robbins27:31

       Yeah.

   12. RRRich Roll27:31

       ... and your life's spiraling out of control, I know for myself when I was in the throes of alcoholism, I'm sure plenty of people said that to me. I didn't wanna hear it. I'm like, "I don't care." Like, "Go away." When you're so caught up in that cycle of- of, like, craving and reward, um, and your life is spiraling out of control, like, until you are in that moment where your- your pain is enough to exceed that fear of doing something different, does that message land with the person?

   13. MRMel Robbins28:04

       Probably not. I'm glad you said that because I want to know what to say. Like, I- I- I- I know that it must have been the hardest thing in the world for your parents to stop talking to you.

   14. RRRich Roll28:15

       Mm-hmm.

   15. MRMel Robbins28:16

       When you were-

   16. RRRich Roll28:16

       Oh, the hardest. The har- the most, the hardest, most painful thing that they had to endure.

   17. MRMel Robbins28:22

       And-

   18. RRRich Roll28:22

       Yeah.

   19. MRMel Robbins28:23

       ... since you've been on this side of it, is there anything anybody can say?

   20. RRRich Roll28:33

       As you know, you can't get somebody to change who doesn't wanna change. You cannot will willingness upon them, which is very difficult, particularly in the context of, like, a parent who's watching their child suffer-

   21. MRMel Robbins28:52

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RRRich Roll28:53

       ... from an addiction.

   23. MRMel Robbins28:53

       Mm-hmm.

   24. RRRich Roll28:55

       The addicted person is powerless over that behavior, but also, the parents are powerless to change that. Every instinct is to rush in and solve the problem, to save this person, to prevent them from doing this thing that so clearly is wrecking their life. The problem is that that instinct doesn't always play out with positive results. So I think what you have to do is love the individual, not love the behavior.

   25. MRMel Robbins29:29

       Mm.

   26. RRRich Roll29:30

       And create boundaries around yourself and that behavior. Like, "I love you. You're clearly suffering. What you're doing, I'm not down with. Here's why. And until you're ready to do something about that, I'm unavailable to you," which is essentially what my parents said to me. I'm not saying that this is an easy thing to do, and I'm not saying that it's an appropriate strategy in all circumstances. I can only say that in my case, it was an important piece that led me towards sobriety eventually, because I could no longer look to them to solve my problem or to be codependent in my behavior.

   27. MRMel Robbins30:15

       Mm.

   28. RRRich Roll30:15

       They were no longer available, which meant the mirror flipped, and suddenly, I had to take responsibility for myself, and it was up to me to decide whether I wanted to keep doing this or not.

   29. MRMel Robbins30:27

       Did they leave the door open?

   30. RRRich Roll30:30

       ... yes, when you're ready for help, we're available. And they were, they were.
6. 33:10 – 38:43

   How to Help Someone Who’s Spiraling

   1. RRRich Roll33:10

      shift.

   2. MRMel Robbins33:10

      So Rich, if somebody is in the middle of supporting somebody who's spiraling, what is, based on your experience, just the recommendation for how you approach those situations?

   3. RRRich Roll33:25

      Yeah, it's very difficult, again, to give, like general-

   4. MRMel Robbins33:27

      And obviously, very personal.

   5. RRRich Roll33:27

      ... advice. Yeah, if like, somebody is in a life-threatening situation. So, I'm reluctant to, like, give blanket advice on this. But I think in general, the message is, like, "I love you. Your life is spiraling out of control. I can no longer stand idly by and just witness this." Um, "But if and when you're ready to make a change, I will be the first one here."

   6. MRMel Robbins33:51

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RRRich Roll33:51

      "But in the meantime, like, I'm not gonna loan you money. I'm not gonna, you know, co-sign your bullshit. Uh, I'm not available for that." Uh, "But there is hope, there is help, and I'm here for you, 100%. I just want you to know that."

   8. MRMel Robbins34:10

      I love that. And there's something in saying that that also, in a weird way, communicates, "I actually believe in your ability-"

   9. RRRich Roll34:22

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MRMel Robbins34:22

       "... to figure this out."

   11. RRRich Roll34:24

       And that's a key piece as well. I can see the real you beneath all of this. And my wife says this all the time, like, "I'm holding a vision for that."

   12. MRMel Robbins34:37

       Hmm.

   13. RRRich Roll34:37

       "I am, I am holding you in that higher space."

   14. MRMel Robbins34:41

       Hmm.

   15. RRRich Roll34:41

       "I'm claiming it for you because you can't right now, uh, and I believe in that version of you. Um, and I'm not going anywhere."

   16. MRMel Robbins34:52

       I love that.

   17. RRRich Roll34:54

       "But I'm not gonna do these things that I historically maybe have done, or which you are gonna be very upset with me because I'm no longer available for."

   18. MRMel Robbins35:02

       Let's give props to your wife, Julie.

   19. RRRich Roll35:04

       Oh, she's the, she's the one.

   20. MRMel Robbins35:06

       Well, I just, as a parent and as a friend, feel like even if you have somebody that's spiraling in self-doubt over something that you know they're capable of, that's a beautiful way to say to somebody, "I am holding a vision of who I know you to be and what you're capable of, and I'm not gonna participate in a conversation where you're engaging in this much self-criticism and self-doubt."

   21. RRRich Roll35:34

       It also takes the judgment out of it.

   22. MRMel Robbins35:36

       Yes.

   23. RRRich Roll35:37

       No one wants to be judged. And when you're in that dark space, you already feel horrible about yourself. The last thing you need is for somebody to come to you and look down at you.

   24. MRMel Robbins35:48

       Yes.

   25. RRRich Roll35:48

       Right? So when you're, when someone comes to you from that compassionate place and says, like, "I love you, and I see you, and I, and I believe in you. I believe in you to find your way. I believe in you to f- to find your path."

   26. MRMel Robbins36:01

       Yeah.

   27. RRRich Roll36:02

       You know? "I know that you're capable of doing that." Like, that's, that's an incredible, like, vote of confidence and encouragement in a situation in which almost everybody is gonna meet that person with condescension and judgment.

   28. MRMel Robbins36:16

       If somebody is hanging on every word, and they're right in it...

   29. RRRich Roll36:22

       Yeah, the thing about being in it is, is that you can't see the way forward. And somebody can say to you, "Do this, don't do that. You should read this book, listen to this podcast." Uh, but it's very difficult to hear that.... because, at least for me, the looping message is, "You don't understand how unique my problems are. You do not n- you, you know, like, it. You can't possibly fathom how different I am from, you know, whatever you're telling me." And you create that separation as a level of self-protection. Um, and I think the advice is, you do what you can in the moment you find yourself in. And I think when life has gone haywire, it's impossible to see what it could be like. And, and we allow that to prevent us from taking action. Like, we wanna know, like, "Well, if I do this, where is it gonna go?"

   30. MRMel Robbins37:25

       Mm.
7. 38:43 – 42:13

   How to Reinvent Yourself in Midlife

   1. MRMel Robbins38:43

      You've reinvented yourself, right? You're getting your life back on track and it's the day before you turn 40, and you have another fork in the road. Can you talk to me about what was going on in your life? 'Cause you're like... I'm, I, I don't wanna brand you as the king of reinvention, but I think one of the reasons why people love you so much is one of the reasons why they also relate to me. It's really cool to see somebody turn their life around a little bit later in life.

   2. RRRich Roll39:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MRMel Robbins39:17

      It's really cool to see somebody who's in their 40s or 50s changing their career and doing new things, and also dominating in the things that you decide to do. And so you get sober, you turn your life around, and now it's your late 30s, but your health is, like, just horrendous. So talk to me about what's goin' on.

   4. RRRich Roll39:42

      Yeah, I mean, it's even more than that. I mean, 31, I get sober.

   5. MRMel Robbins39:46

      Yep.

   6. RRRich Roll39:47

      That begins with voluntarily incarcerating myself in what's essentially a mental institution for 100 days. Like, I-

   7. MRMel Robbins39:55

      Oh, you did?

   8. RRRich Roll39:56

      Well, I went to treatment.

   9. MRMel Robbins39:57

      Okay.

   10. RRRich Roll39:57

       You know? So it was like, treatment is a very polite word for basically y- you know, people who are, are, you know, unhinged in, in, in's- (laughs) in some kind of unhealthy way.

   11. MRMel Robbins40:08

       You're not selling it.

   12. RRRich Roll40:09

       Right?

   13. MRMel Robbins40:09

       You're not selling it, Rich.

   14. RRRich Roll40:09

       Yeah. Listen, it saved my life.

   15. MRMel Robbins40:10

       Okay.

   16. RRRich Roll40:11

       But 100 days is a long time to go away for. This was no, like, 28-day, you know, rinse, rinse and wash, right? Like, I, I, I really had a lot that I had to, like, get to the bottom of. I emerged from that experience, returned to Los Angeles, and immersed myself in the recovery community. My job was to create a solid foundation of sobriety, and I was very committed to that. I returned to the law firm that-

   17. MRMel Robbins40:40

       They took you back?

   18. RRRich Roll40:41

       ... supported me while I went away. That's a whole other story.

   19. MRMel Robbins40:44

       Wow.

   20. RRRich Roll40:44

       And even though I already knew enough at that time to know that I had picked the wrong career for me, it felt like the right thing to do to go back and work there, at least as long as I had been away. But I will say, despite having built this foundation for longterm sobriety, despite this incredible commitment to the steps, and the program, and this new set of tools that it was now, you know, kind of directing my life in a new and amazing way, truly, Mel, my goal was to repair the wreckage of my past and get right back to where I was, like, on that track, that respectable track where I could put on the nice suit and people would respect me and, you know, I could thr- give them the business card that had the whatever on it-

   21. MRMel Robbins41:35

       Mm-hmm.

   22. RRRich Roll41:35

       ... and I was driving the right car. Like, I was motivated by those things. But on the inside, I was having this percolating existential crisis of, of having chosen this career path where I was jamming a square peg into a round hole and, and, and just feeling increasingly, um, disconnected from my life in, in a, in a way that was making me feel depressed. And also, medicating that sense of emotional dis-ease through food and lifestyle choices. So just

8. 42:13 – 47:36

   The Moment That Changed Everything

   1. RRRich Roll42:13

      knocking myself out on fast food, what I call the window diet. You know what the window diet is?

   2. MRMel Robbins42:18

      No.

   3. RRRich Roll42:19

      It's when you drive your car up to a fine dining establishment and roll your window down and, or, and they hand you food through your window. Like, that was basically my diet.

   4. MRMel Robbins42:28

      That's hard to even wrap your brain around, looking at you today. I wanna read to you from your mega bestseller, Finding Ultra. This is page two. "I was a fat..."... Out of shape, and very unhealthy man hurtling into middle age, a depressed, self-destructive person, utterly disconnected from who I was and what I wanted to be. To the outside observer, everything appeared to be perfect. It had been more than eight years since my last drink, and during that time, I'd repaired what was a broken and desperate life, reshaping it into the very model of modern American success." You know, what's interesting, you, you write further. You're such a unbelievably beautiful writer. "So what was wrong with me? Why did I feel this way? I wasn't just confused, it felt like I was in a free fall. Yet in that precise moment..." This is the day before your 40th birthday, "I was overcome with a profound knowledge, not just that I needed to change but that I was willing to change. Moments like these were not to be squandered. They were to be respected and seized at all costs, for they just didn't come around that often, if ever." And you're talking about this moment where you're literally hauling your 208-pound body up a flight of stairs and you're out of breath. Can you put us at that scene?

   5. RRRich Roll43:58

      Yes. So it was a moment in time in which this existential (laughs) crisis that I was having about, you know, "What am I doing with my life?" kind of collided with a health scare. So I wasn't like morbidly obese, but I was about 50 pounds overweight for my frame, like heavy for my frame. But these two things collided with each other on a late evening when I had arrived home after a very long day at work and was just walking up a simple flight of stairs to my bedroom, and I was seized by this moment halfway up the flight where I had tightness in my chest and I was out of breath. And it was a scary moment-

   6. MRMel Robbins44:42

      Hmm.

   7. RRRich Roll44:44

      ... that made me realize that I was having another, like, quote-unquote, like, "big moment." Like, I had made that decision that fateful morning when I woke up and suddenly had the willingness to, like, get sober and went to that treatment center, and I had such a deep connection with how vast my life had changed as a result of that decision in that one moment, and there's a, like an emotional feeling that-

   8. MRMel Robbins45:18

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RRRich Roll45:18

      ... that, you know, when I think about it that, that kind of, I can feel inside of me. And so when I was on that staircase, I had the presence of mind, somehow, to realize like, "Oh, it's happening again."

   10. MRMel Robbins45:30

       Hmm.

   11. RRRich Roll45:30

       Like, it feels the same as that other moment. And because I had that experience of my life changing so drastically as a result of like a single decision basically, I felt like I needed to do it again. I was like, "This is a, a brief moment of time, a fleeting moment of time in which willingness has descended upon me. Not only is my life going sideways. Suddenly I have this sudden superpower of wanting to do (laughs) something about it-"

   12. MRMel Robbins46:00

       Yes.

   13. RRRich Roll46:01

       "... that I know is gonna evaporate immediately unless I take an action upon it." And I thought, "What can I do?" Like I, I've gone to re- I can't go to rehab for this, you know what I mean? (laughs) Like, but what can I... Maybe I can create a rehab for my life, a self-designed rehab, and, and that's what I did. Like the next day I basically was like, "I'm changing my diet." You know, it was sort of, "I'm, I'm, I'm prone to extremes and I needed to do something extreme that would feel sort of like what it felt like when I detoxed from drugs and alcohol." So I just did it with food because I needed, I needed to, like, have that purge, that suffering, to make it seem like it was significant and hard. Like, I needed to do something that was hard.

   14. MRMel Robbins46:44

       You know, I wanna ask you 'cause you're so lucky that that happened. And, you know, as I'm listening to you, and I'm sure as you're listening or watching Rich right now, you're reflecting on the fact that you've probably had a thousand moments where you're like, "I need to give up va- vaping. I gotta put the phone down. I got, I gotta do something about my health. I gotta stop spending money. I gotta get serious about this thing." I got, y- you know, where you have that moment that does swell up inside you, and I do think truly that when that happens there is an earnest desire in that statement when you recognize, "Okay, how I'm doing life, or finances, or roma- it's just not working." How, i- is there any insight that you can give us, Rich, about, like you had willingness open up-

   15. RRRich Roll47:30

       Yeah.

   16. MRMel Robbins47:30

       ... and then you combined it with like, "All right, I'm going in. (laughs) I'm gonna-"

   17. RRRich Roll47:34

       Yeah.

   18. MRMel Robbins47:34

       But, but what can we mere

9. 47:36 – 51:09

   The Trick to Actually Sticking to Your Goals

   1. MRMel Robbins47:36

      mortals do? Like, you know what I'm... For the person that's like, "This is resonating, dammit, when is the lightning striking at the top of the stairs for me and willingness shows up?" Like, is there a, is there something that you've found?

   2. RRRich Roll47:49

      First of all, these moments that I've experienced, I think that we're all visited by them. So the first thing is to develop a, a, a presence of mind or, or just an awareness-

   3. MRMel Robbins48:00

      Hmm.

   4. RRRich Roll48:00

      ... so that you're attuned to it when they arrive and, and, and you, you make a promise to yourself in advance that, "Next time I feel that, like, I'm gonna take an action on it-"

   5. MRMel Robbins48:12

      Okay.

   6. RRRich Roll48:12

      "... rather than let it pass."

   7. MRMel Robbins48:14

      I love this.

   8. RRRich Roll48:14

      Or commiserate.

   9. MRMel Robbins48:15

      I love that.

   10. RRRich Roll48:16

       Because here's the thing, and I'm sure (laughs) you will agree, Mel, change is an action-based affair. You cannot make a change by ruminating in your mind, and I have a, a, a tool that I think will be helpful for this and that tool is a phrase, and that phrase is, "Mood follows action."When we are in those moments where we think, "Yeah, I need to stop vaping," or, "I need to stop, you know, going on Tinder," or whatever it is, uh, we let those moments pass without doing anything about it. In truth, it is behavior first, thoughts, feelings, and emotions follow. So, the easiest example is, "I don't wanna go to the gym. I'll go to the gym when I'm motivated, when I feel better, when I'm, when I, when I feel energetic." But when you go to the gym and you realize you feel energetic afterwards. So instead of waiting for the feeling to inspire the action, take the action and enjoy the feeling as a consequence of having undertaken it.

   11. MRMel Robbins49:28

       I wanna make sure that as you're listening or watching, that you got the concrete steps Rich just gave you. So number one, the next time that, "I gotta quit vaping. I gotta stop buying stuff online. I, I, I gotta stop running toward walking red flags when it comes to relationships," that right there is the invitation. That's the moment that you're talking about, because you just woke up and you recognized that you have a choice in this matter, that there's some song within you that has yet to be sung. Second thing that you said is you could actually say to yourself, "The next time I have that thought, I am going to take an action." And the third thing that you said that is a tool is one of the cues you could give yourself is mood follows action. So what action am I gonna take the next time this thing happens? And that simple little formula, notice, make a promise, and know what the action's gonna be, that basically kind of opens up the possibility for the willingness to take the action.

   12. RRRich Roll50:40

       Yeah, that's an amazing summary. The only addition I would make to that is to layer it with a sense of immediacy.

   13. MRMel Robbins50:46

       Mm.

   14. RRRich Roll50:46

       Because these are sliding door moments, and if you say to yourself-

   15. MRMel Robbins50:52

       The next time.

   16. RRRich Roll50:52

       ... "Aha, a moment."

   17. MRMel Robbins50:54

       (laughs)

   18. RRRich Roll50:54

       "I need to act. Okay, tomorrow morning when I wake up, I'm gonna do that," you've already lost the plot.

   19. MRMel Robbins50:59

       So you're at the top of the stairs, dude. You have a moment. You recognize it. Mood follows action. You commit to like, boom, I'm going all in on this.

10. 51:09 – 1:18:01

    The Foundation for Changing Your Life

    1. MRMel Robbins51:09

       Is, this part of the, the story of your life is like a movie, dude. Like you go all in. What did you do?

    2. RRRich Roll51:18

       The first thing that I did was change my relationship with food. Uh, and it didn't happen overnight. Like I did a, like a seven-day juice cleanse. Like that was the detox part.

    3. MRMel Robbins51:28

       That sounds kind of-

    4. RRRich Roll51:28

       You know like-

    5. MRMel Robbins51:28

       ... extreme.

    6. RRRich Roll51:29

       It, it was ex- but I, but like I'm, I like the extreme.

    7. MRMel Robbins51:32

       Is it change or interrupt your relationship with food?

    8. RRRich Roll51:34

       So, (laughs) here's the thing-

    9. MRMel Robbins51:34

       Right? 'Cause change my relationship with food sounds like something that a 20-something-

    10. RRRich Roll51:39

        I know. You're right.

    11. MRMel Robbins51:39

        ... influencer would say.

    12. RRRich Roll51:40

        But I, the reason I do that, Mel, is because I know that most people are not like me. Like I have to go all in. I'm extreme, but that doesn't work for a lot of people. But yeah, I, you know, did the juice cleanses and I experimented with all these diets and ultimately found an entirely plant-based diet, 100% plant-based diet, to be the thing that worked for me. Like it, it, it really revitalized me in a, in a, in a meaningful way. And the byproduct of that is that I suddenly had this resurgence of energy and vitality that I hadn't experienced since I was a teenager 'cause I'd cleaned up my lifestyle habits and my diet. Um, and suddenly had the urge for the very first time in a long time to like exercise and like take care of myself, because one act of self-esteem begets another.

    13. MRMel Robbins52:32

        Hmm.

    14. RRRich Roll52:32

        You know like self-esteem is a product of performing esteemable acts, not only on behalf of others but on behalf of yourself. And when you do something in the interest of your own self-care, like suddenly that gives birth to an interest in wanting to do more of that, and it's this domino cascade effect that I was starting to experience. And the truth of the matter is that I was able to lose weight very quickly and I was able to, uh, you know, go from somebody who was completely sedentary to quite fit in a short period of time. But the real gift of that was that it was starting to not only connect me to my physical self, but it was giving me a path to recapturing joy. Like by thinking about what are the things that really make me happy or made me happy as a kid? And it took me all the way back to what was it like when you were underwater and in that pool or you could feel the sun on your shoulders? Like very basic-

    15. MRMel Robbins53:32

        Mm-hmm.

    16. RRRich Roll53:32

        ... primal things. And I just thought, "I want more of that in my life. I need that in my life." That's what made me happy. I'm not as happy as I could be right now and so I'm just gonna ... I don't care what anyone says or how it interferes with other areas of my life, like I am going to explore that for myself as an act of like self-love honestly. And there's a whole athletic, kind of competitive athlete story that, that, that blossoms from that. But the truth of the matter is that it was never really about that. It's always been this spiritual journey to, to, you know, find my authentic voice and to heal that wound in my soul-

    17. MRMel Robbins54:14

        Mm-hmm.

    18. RRRich Roll54:14

        ... and to fill that unfillable hole with something, um, with something divine, uh, that would make me feel at ease with myself and in the world.

    19. MRMel Robbins54:27

        That is so beautiful and the image of finding these just moments of joy whether it's the sun on your shoulders or what it feels like to be outside moving your body or being back in a pool, something that made you really happy as a child. Like it is so...... obvious that when you kinda paint the picture, that moving toward those things, of course, would bring something alive. And yet, we allow ourselves to be funneled away from them and end up in places where we're needing to distract and numb ourselves because where we've ended up is devoid of those things.

    20. RRRich Roll55:10

        Yeah, and confused and hypnotized by the shiny object around the bend that's gonna solve that for us-

    21. MRMel Robbins55:16

        Yeah.

    22. RRRich Roll55:16

        ... when we had the answer all along, which is when you reflect back on your happiest moments, you're probably surrounded by people you care about, doing something you really enjoy.

    23. MRMel Robbins55:27

        Yes. Most likely outside. (laughs)

    24. RRRich Roll55:29

        Yeah.

    25. MRMel Robbins55:29

        You know what I'm saying?

    26. RRRich Roll55:30

        Yeah.

    27. MRMel Robbins55:30

        Well, you know, you not only started running, dude. Like, I also think your story's so amazing because within two years of nearly having, like, uh, um, just your chest caving in and you're 50 pounds overweight, you earn a top 10 finish in a three-day, 320-mile race. And you're doing this in your 40s. And you don't stop from there. You go into ultra-marathoning. Called the Fittest Man Alive. I mean, it's, Rich, it's un-... I- I think at some point, I held up a cover of you to my poor husband, Chris, and said, "Could you please look more like this guy? Like, this guy looks great in his 40s. What are you doing, Chump?" Like, I realize-

    28. RRRich Roll56:13

        Yeah.

    29. MRMel Robbins56:13

        ... I wasn't really motivating him, but-

    30. RRRich Roll56:14

        What I had to do to look that way though is insane.

Episode duration: 1:18:01