Mayo Clinic Cancer Doctor: 5 Foods That Heal the Body, Starve Cancer, & Prevent Disease

Mel Robbins 0:00 What are the top foods to avoid because of cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 0:04 You know where I'm gonna start, right? Ultra-processed foods. Processed meat is a class one carcinogen. So this is pepperoni, this is sausage, this is bacon, this is even chicken nuggets, this is lunch meat.

Mel Robbins 0:16 Today on the Mel Robbins Podcast, we're talking about five cancer-fighting foods that starve disease and heal the body with a Mayo Clinic doc. My jaw was on the floor, yours will be too.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 0:28 So I did a study at Mayo Clinic in my cancer center. Guess what I learned? 95% of our patients aren't getting the recommended vegetables and fruits. People who had two or less servings of vegetables and fruits a day versus people who had five. Those people that had five had a 10% reduction in dying from cancer, a 12% reduction in dying from heart disease. There was a 35% reduction in dying from respiratory disease. Food is medicine.

Mel Robbins 0:52 Food is medicine.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 0:54 We take antioxidants to fight cancer, we take all these expensive pills and powders, right? Just eat your kiwi.

Mel Robbins 1:00 Now why does a kiwi prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02 It's super cool. So this really gets, like, on the cellular level. There's 150% more anthocyanins in these purple sweet potatoes than there are in those berries.

Mel Robbins 1:12 What is anthocyanin and why does it matter?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:14 Power. It's- this is, like, jewelry right here. These are like jewels for cancer.

Mel Robbins 1:20 What are the top three things a cancer patient should be doing, Dr. Musalem?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:24 Well, I would start, number one is...

Mel Robbins 1:28 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

Mel Robbins 1:38 Dr. Musalem, thank you so much for hopping on a plane and being here. I'm so excited to talk to you.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:44 Thank you, Mel. It's- this is, like, a surreal experience. I have goosebumps from head to toe. I live with goosebumps, but I really have them right now.

Mel Robbins 1:51 (laughs)

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:51 And I was so excited flying out here. I- I slept good last night, but I didn't even feel like I needed to sleep, I'm so energized, so.

Mel Robbins 1:57 I can tell. And I'm energized too, because you have so much to teach us today.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 2:01 Mm.

Mel Robbins 2:02 Um, I'd love to start by having you speak to the person who is here with us right now, and tell them how their life might change for the better if they really take everything to heart that you're about to teach us today and they apply it to their life.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 2:20 I love that. It can almost bring tears to my eyes actually. You know, I want each of you to be truly awakened to your aliveness, unapologetically. Life is so very, very precious, and I just want to take every single person listening and be able to move them from a place of hope to knowing that they too can flourish despite whatever adversity they have in their life. So let's do it.

Mel Robbins 2:46 Let's do it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 2:47 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 2:47 Well, we're gonna cover so much. I mean, you've been practicing medicine for several decades. We're gonna discuss food that can heal your body and starve disease. We are gonna go through a specific list of foods, one by one, that you should be eating in order to avoid cancer. We're gonna talk about specific foods that I want you to avoid because they cause cancer. But one of the reasons why we tracked you down and we wanted to sit down and learn from you is because you're not only a medical doctor, and you're not only a researcher, and you're not only in a clinical practice helping heal people that have a cancer diagnosis, but you also are a cancer survivor yourself. And when you were 26 years old in medical school, that's when you got the diagnosis. And so before we jump into everything you're about to teach us, I'd love to hear about that moment in your life.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 3:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 3:45 And how that impacted how you practice medicine.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 3:48 Yeah. Thank you, Mel. I learned a lot in medical school, but I learned everything about how to be a doctor as a patient. And it was just a few months into medical school. I mean, I lived the perfect healthy lifestyle growing up. Had a very loving family, and we really participated in healthy living. And a few months into medical school, first time in my entire life I wasn't feeling good. Big into athletics. I would climb Camelback Mountain in Arizona twice a day, and all of a sudden, it was hard. Saw a doctor, he said, "Use an inhaler. It's adult asthma." I didn't ask any questions, he didn't even listen to me. Didn't get better. Saw a second doctor, he said, "Use it more." He still didn't listen to me. The third doctor said, "Oh, it's in your head. This is something that happens to all medical students. It's called psychosomatic, meaning it's in your head, and then the soma, the body, you manifest these symptoms." It was a few days after that doctor told me that it was in my head that I collapsed, and I went to the hospital. I was in cardiogenic shock, my heart wasn't even beating properly. There was a 16 centimeter mass wrapped around my heart, and the tumor was compressing all the great vessels in my neck. So they took me to urgent surgery, and the next day the doctors came in the room and they said, "You have stage four cancer." They said, "You have three months to live without treatment, 20 months to live with treatment." And, you know, so many people would say, "Well, were you angry?" You know, "What was the emotion?" And I was just given this gift of grace. I just took that diagnosis, and I knew that there was a deep lesson there for me, especially as a medical student, and I stayed the course. I stayed in medical school, and I listened to what the doctors said I needed to do to survive, and I showed up for myself. I stayed busy with the healthy aspects of living that we're gonna talk about today because I was able to attain my vitality during my entire cancer treatment and then flourish, as you can see today, thereafter. So I just learned so much about the human experience, both when we're well, when I was younger, as well as what it's like to be a patient when you're not well.

Mel Robbins 5:39 There is so much to unpack in just that. When you woke up from that surgery, 'cause that sounds like there was... Well, first of all, I gotta start with, you can go up Camelback two times? I mean, I dragged myself up there and was so out of breath and lightheaded that thankfully there was, like, an Army ranger veteran who was hiking down as I was stumbling down who had to lead me down the mountain. Like, that- that- that right there is unbelievable. But I think a lot of people have had that experience where you're like, "I know something's wrong."

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 6:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 6:12 And then you are told by somebody, "No, no, no, no, it's all in your head. You're gonna be fine." But for you...That sounds enormous, that it was wrapped around your heart, it was compressing against you. You know, you held up your hand toward your throat. You then woke up from surgery. But it sounded like you just kinda went on with your life. So I wanna just say, what did the doctors tell you to do? Because you said, "I followed the medical advice."

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 6:37 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 6:38 But you also did a second thing, which is instead of focusing on the cancer, you focused and tripled down on the healthy aspects of your life. And so let's just first talk about what did the doctors say you should do that you did, and then let's talk about what are the, you know, healthy things that you focused on.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 7:02 Yes. So, you know, the doctors said, "I'm, you're gonna need to do chemotherapy," and I didn't question it. I knew my body needed chemotherapy. Here I am in the specialty of integrative oncology, where I really use evidence-backed natural therapies to help to mitigate the toxicities of treatment, to improve the outcomes of treatment, and also reduce other chronic diseases. I knew that I needed the chemotherapy to get rid of this cancer.

Mel Robbins 7:23 So were you studying cancer medicine? Is that why you went to medical school?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 7:27 You know, I have a fascinating background. Before I went to traditional medical school, I actually went to naturopathic school, and my undergraduate training was in exercise physiology and nutrition.

Mel Robbins 7:35 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 7:35 So this has just been, like, weaved into my spirit and soul since I was actually a little girl. As a young kid people would ask, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" Like they alway- I said, "I want to live to be 100 years old." Eh, I just loved wellness. I was actually obsessed with it. I thought it was the coolest thing.

Mel Robbins 7:48 How old are you right now?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 7:50 51.

Mel Robbins 7:51 You, well, that's fantastic. Uh, if I were betting on anybody living to 100, it would be you.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 7:56 I think so. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 7:57 For sure. And there's a lot that I, I know that we can learn from you, both in terms of the medical research and the way that you tripled down on healthy living and vitality and things that are accessible to all of us.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 8:08 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 8:09 So you started out as a naturopath. You had dreams and ambitions as a, a little kid of living to 100. You've always been obsessed with a healthy lifestyle, but then, holy cow, 26. If you look at somebody that can just trot up Camelback twice and that's already super healthy and has a very positive attitude, those two things, that and cancer diagnosis don't seem to go together.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 8:35 Right. I mean, there's, you know, uh, you just do this analysis immediately. You're like, "What did I do wrong?" That's the natural thing. You know, the, "Why me?" You know, everyone sees me and this external vision is, "Oh my gosh, she's so positive. I bet she never has a bad day." I cried, I sobbed. Like, what did this mean? But it was very momentarily, you know. I knew, "Hey, I don't have time for this. I've got to kinda figure out what my strategy's gonna be," and I hired the doctors I could trust. You know, once I was given the diagnosis, and I really don't care when doctors... I, I think it's not a good idea when doctors give a finite number of how long you're gonna be on Earth, because I don't think we can really do an accurate prediction, especially nowadays. We have so many advancements for cancer treatment. We're seeing people being cured left and right. Who are we to predict how long someone's gonna live? So I tell my patients often, they're very, they find it's very off-putting when an oncologist shares with them, "You have X amount of time to live." And I tell my patients, "When you go meet with that oncologist, say you don't wanna have that number. If you don't want that number, and you deserve to have the number if you want it," but for me, I would have kind of rather not had that number, but I didn't let it get in my head. And so I had to do chemotherapy for, um, almost six months, and then I had to do a bone marrow transplant, because this was before the immunotherapies, the rituximab or any of those treatments were available. So did the bone marrow transplant, and I remember every morning I set my alarm for 4:00 AM in the hospital. They brought all my medical studies to the hospital so I could study. My oncologist had a bicycle in my room and a bicycle at the nurse's station, so at 4:00 AM I would kinda sneak out of the room, sit on that bike, and watch the sunrise in Arizona. It was gorgeous over the mountains. But this was remarkable. It, and I, I can, I c- I feel it in my body, like, tiptoeing, sliding that glass door, and spanning the room and seeing all these other people in their beds. And I'll describe it, they were so sick in an effort to be alive, but again, I attained my vitality without pause. And it was how I lived and it's exactly what I really work with my patients in doing today, and you've got to remove that turbulence. You've gotta come to this in a place of just joy and, like, empowerment. Like, I have autonomy over this diagnosis. This is my job right now to show up for myself, and it worked beautifully.

Mel Robbins 10:44 Okay, I gotta unpack this.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 10:46 Okay. Okay, let's do it.

Mel Robbins 10:46 So Dr. Musalem, you're 26 years old and you painted such a vivid picture. And I can actually picture in my mind the 26-year-old you in a hospital bed popping up like a jackrabbit...

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 11:05 (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 11:05 ... running down in your gown to the nurse's station, hopping on a bike, looking out the window, and I can also picture walking past all the other rooms and kinda peeking in and seeing people, like, just near death, or at least with the defeated, I'm dying, just n- down energy, which is certainly a very rational-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 11:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:31 ... and expected response to a scary diagnosis, to very debilitating treatment. But you did the opposite.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 11:40 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:40 And I have two questions around this. When the doctor said, "You have three months to live," how did that change your aperture in your mind in terms of what a typical 26-year-old thinks about versus what you then thought about when somebody said, "You have three months to live"?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 12:05 Yeah. So, you know, when I heard it, I kinda tucked it away. Like, it was tucked deep into my soul. It was still with me, but it wasn't controlling my choices or my actions. I wasn't living in fear, by any means. I was living through the lens of, "Let's be fully alive." What I would say is hearing that...... elevated my existence to the degree that every single thing that I would experience-

Mel Robbins 12:30 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 12:30 ... was elevated. The grass wasn't just green, it was magnificently green. The clouds were just always more voluminous than they probably ever were. The warmth of the sun just felt so warm and encompassing. And just like it is today, but I just loved people. You know, I could... I, I remember one situation. It was... I was at a McDonald's actually, which it doesn't sound very healthy, right? Like, it's probably a really good example for people to hear. But I went to McDonald's and I got a coffee. I love coffee. It, it's actually very good for you. We can talk about that. And there was a homeless gentleman sitting outside. I've actually never shared this story. And he was young, and he was about 19 years old. And I sat down and I had my coffee, went and bought him breakfast, and we just talked. And what I learned in my experience of being diagnosed with cancer, if I wasn't diagnosed with cancer, you know what I would did? Went and got my coffee and rushed off to go study, selfishly, right? But instead I had this knowing like, "Hey, pause. Let's spend time with this human being." And he just taught me so much about life, like so much about being present. And he was so still. He had this beautiful energy, and you know, that's something that I think describes my existence is this energized stillness, where I'm like a live wire (laughs) like, you know. But inside there's, like, this ultimate stillness and harmony that is just so important.

Mel Robbins 13:48 So I just wanna make sure that as you're listening or watching, you kinda get the magic of what Dr. Musalem just shared, which is in getting that three-month... How, how would you even say it? Like in being told that you had three months to live, it brought what mattered into focus-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 14:08 Mm.

Mel Robbins 14:08 ... and made the things right in front of you about life that give you energy and that's beautiful and that are worth living for-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 14:15 Sure.

Mel Robbins 14:15 ... way more magnified, and

Mel Robbins 14:17 you leaned into that. And what I wanna know is, what are the healthy things that you focused on when you got that stage four cancer diagnosis?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 14:29 Exercise, number one. You know-

Mel Robbins 14:32 Even during chemotherapy?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 14:34 Oh my gosh, I started feeling so much better, you know, 'cause the tumor started shrinking. So it was like, "Holy cow, I can breathe again." So yes, I still exercise. The exercise research centered around cancer is incredibly exciting. We didn't really know it back then, but it's likely why I'm alive today because I really still continued that exercise. Not high intensity. D- I just did what I could do because the cancer treatments are dropping your blood cell counts, you're oftentimes anemic, and you are tired. So I listened to my body. When I rode that bike, it was slow. I didn't worry. There was no ego attached. I was just moving my body. I share with my patients, "I know you're exhausted, but I need you to go walk at least five or 10 minutes after each meal. I need you to push yourself." You know, this is not easy, but we have a choice and sometimes we gotta push ourself. And in doing that, we can get energized. And so that is what I recommend, number one, is move your body. It is critical. Very, very important. The other thing with exercise people don't realize is it uses up that stress, all that adrenaline. If you think back to the caveman and the saber-toothed tiger would jump out, the caveman would outrun it, right? And he'd sleep like a baby at night, "Oh." And us, we don't have the saber-toothed tiger, but we have all these stressors, whatever it may be. Maybe it's not cancer, could just be the stress of life, and we're just wound up so tight with the anxiety. So that exercise helps the mood, it helps beat the cancer, and actually augments the treatment response, we now know. It's magic. We know that in breast cancer that exercise can improve breast cancer outcomes. I mean, are you ready for... This gives me chills. Almost 50%. I mean, this isn't a little number. This is like a, a magical number. There was just an amazing colorectal cancer study showing that exercise is looking as favorable as, as chemo. You know, this doesn't mean it replaces chemo. It means we do it together so we can cure cancers.

Mel Robbins 16:19 So you focused on exercise. Were there any other healthy habits leaning into vitality that you did when you were diagnosed with stage four cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 16:29 Oh, yes. You know, food is medicine, and this was really before the whole focus on food really became apparent, but it's always been something that's been very special to me. So I continued eating that healthy diet. And even in the days when I didn't really feel up to it, you know, the chemotherapy changes how things taste in your mouth. It's very metallic. Oftentimes you get sores, and with the type of treatment I had, you have a bunch of mouth sores, so it's... it hurts.

Mel Robbins 16:52 Ouch.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 16:53 So... But this is the blessing in this is I know what that was like. So when I sit down with patients, I can be very mindful and think, "Okay, I know where she's at in this treatment. I see how she's talking to me. Her mouth obviously hurts. Let's touch on this and let's figure out some food swaps." Or maybe she's having scrambled eggs with cheese on a piece of white bread with butter and a piece of turkey sausage. You know, that, that's not the end of the world probably, but there's a lot healthier way that I would like that woman to eat. So I'll do a swap. I try to flip what she's eating in a way that it's still something she's accustomed to, something that she looks for something more savory, she's not looking for something sweet in what she usually eats, and we'll give her something a little bit healthier to eat that would be, um, maybe more in line with her cancer treatment to give her some of the phytonutrients that comes from plants that can help to make her feel better and maybe even improve those treatment outcomes.

Mel Robbins 17:43 So you've talked about exercise, you've talked about tripling down on healthy foods because food is medicine, as you just said. You also talked about your attitude, like really lasering in on how beautiful the sunrise is instead of focusing on the cancer diagnosis. Anything else that you leaned into when you were diagnosed with stage four cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 18:04 Yeah. You know, acceptance.

Mel Robbins 18:07 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 18:07 You can't fight it. You have to accept it. You have to work to accept it. It's really hard at first, but if you fight it, you're just gonna be in that battle longer.

Mel Robbins 18:18 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 18:18 And oftentimes I'll read that people say, "She battled with cancer." There was never a battle. It truly was just this grace of acceptance and then moving in the direction I knew I had control over, and that was where I showed up for myself with healthy living-... and let the doctors do what they did best.

Mel Robbins 18:35 You know, there's this super famous quote from, I can never say this word, it's like hippocrats or, hippo- h- hippo- how d- how do you say this word? (laughs)

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 18:44 Hippocrates.

Mel Robbins 18:45 Thank you.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 18:45 It's perfect.

Mel Robbins 18:46 Thank you. I- I c- y- y- you know, it ta- I- Mark Twain said, "It takes a simple mind to spell a word one way." I say it takes a simple mind to say a word one way. So Hippocrates, thank you, the ancient Greek physician said, "Let food be thy medicine." And, you know, I hear you say this all the time. Is there data to back up the assertion that food can prevent or heal diseases?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 19:14 Absolutely. There's overwhelming evidence that food is a big problem in our country today with the levels of chronic disease we have. And in fact, in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 2022, what they published is that food is the leading cause of death in our country.

Mel Robbins 19:31 Wait a minute. Food-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 19:32 Food.

Mel Robbins 19:33 ... is the leading cause of death in the United States?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 19:36 Yes.

Mel Robbins 19:37 What does that mean, Dr. Musalem?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 19:39 It's a massive driver. With the consumption of ultra-processed foods, 60% of our diet is ultra-processed foods. 67% of our children's diet is ultra-processed foods. And so what's happening with that, you know, there's additives in those foods that just aren't good for our body. Those foods aren't good for our gut microbiome. And then when we eat that much food that's fake, there's no room for the healthy stuff, so you're weeding out the opportunity to get the stuff that matters. Every time you put food in your mouth, you have an opportunity to be a healthier version of yourself or an unhealthier version of yourself, so you really wanna pay attention to that. And it doesn't have to be perfect. This is never about perfection, but it's in an effort to be more consistent about doing better is what I would say. And have joy over that. You know, sometimes I have women come in and they are what some would consider eating the perfect diet, but they feel like they're hostage to that diet and they're not-

Mel Robbins 20:27 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 20:27 ... loving it and they're not having joy over it. So it's really trying to find the healthy foods that you enjoy the taste of.

Mel Robbins 20:33 You know, I often wonder, I mean, that's a startling statistic that the leading cause of death in the United States is food because it's ultra-processed. You know, there's all this obsession with labeling things organic. I've often wondered, wait a minute, don't we have this backwards? Shouldn't we be labeling things chemical?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 20:50 Yeah. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 20:50 And everything else as just food?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 20:52 I know.

Mel Robbins 20:53 You know, in fact, speaking of food, you have a list of foods that prevent cancer. You can explain why they prevent cancer. And so I wanna bring them in and then we're gonna walk step by step through each one and have you explain how a particular food that you eat will help you prevent cancer.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:12 Let's do it.

Mel Robbins 21:12 Let's do it. All right. Let's bring that in. So the first thing I see is a bowl of berries. Let's talk about frozen berries. Why do frozen berries prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:23 Yeah. Berries are incredible, and you know, it's such an easy way to start your day. And a lot of people worry 'cause berries can be expensive, especially if they're-

Mel Robbins 21:29 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:29 ... fresh. And so what I tell patients is, "Don't worry. Just buy them frozen." And the frozen wild berries, they don't need to be organic. They're wild. They're growing in nature. So get those frozen wild berries. This is a beautiful mix of berries here, which I love, and I really try to have my patients do a cup a day. These are loaded with anthocyanins. They're-

Mel Robbins 21:48 What is anthocyanin and why does it matter?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:50 It's this powerful phytonutrient. All of these-

Mel Robbins 21:52 What's a phytonutrient? What does that mean?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:54 I know. Isn't... It- it's a crazy word, right? So-

Mel Robbins 21:56 These are big words, Dr. Musalem.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 21:58 Phyto is the color, the color-

Mel Robbins 22:00 Oh.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:00 ... in these vegetables and fruits, and the nutrient is what's gonna help feed our body, everything that we want to help to, again, anything we eat, we can try to turn on all these activations that can help to mitigate cancer from forming, and if you have it, we can help to turn off some of those genes as well. So there's research with berries that's so exciting, both for breast cancer prevention as well as breast cancer survivorship. You won't believe this. For every two servings a week, it can reduce the risk of breast cancer, and for breast cancer survivors, for every two servings a week, it can reduce the risk of dying from breast cancer by 25%.

Mel Robbins 22:36 25%?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:37 I know. (laughs) It's a huge number. So-

Mel Robbins 22:39 Two servings of frozen berries a day?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:41 A week.

Mel Robbins 22:42 A week?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:43 A week.

Mel Robbins 22:44 That's it?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:45 That's it, but we wanna do more.

Mel Robbins 22:45 With a 25% reduction?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:48 25%. This was in the Nurses' Health Study. Such cool data, right?

Mel Robbins 22:51 Wow.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 22:51 And they're delicious. You know, this is- what's interesting about modern food though is there are many people that will taste these berries, they will not taste how delicious they are because the food today is so adulterated with chemicals and they make the food so that it has extra flavor on the palate. And so it can take a little bit of time as people are transitioning to a healthy diet to adjust their palate so they can appreciate the taste of food. And what I see that's so unique to cancer patients is when you have that cancer diagnosis, you know, your mortality is being threatened. You're ready for change and it seems that switch flips immediately. It seems like they start tasting the beauty of their food-

Mel Robbins 23:29 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 23:30 ... so much more quickly than patients that I may happen to see that have no active cancer. It takes them much longer to find the harmony and pleasure of how this wonderful food tastes. So I just want people to be patient when you start tasting these foods, especially if you're used to the ultra-processed foods. You may not notice how amazing these taste. I have patients say, "Oh, my gosh. I didn't know strawberries tasted so good." It's really cool. Takes them a while to let those fake foods kind of flush out of their system and they start to appreciate it. So berries, but guess what? These purple sweet potatoes, can we talk about those?

Mel Robbins 24:01 Yeah. So let's talk about the purple sweet potatoes. Dr. Musalem, why do purple sweet potatoes prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 24:09 First of all, it's my favorite food. I'm just here to say, like, if- if- if tomorrow was my last day, Mel, and you said, "Dawn, what can we serve for your last meal?" (laughs) I'd say, "Just bring me that purple sweet potato. (laughs) Just heat it up a little bit though." (laughs)

Mel Robbins 24:19 That's it? You're just cooking it? And you don't-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 24:20 Oh.

Mel Robbins 24:20 ... do anything fancy with it?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 24:22 Uh, yes. I eat them. I eat one every single day.

Mel Robbins 24:24 Here, I'll just shove this through here.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 24:24 I eat one every day. So look at this. I mean, it's- it's so cool. When you cook these, it gets more purple.So, I love the berries, right?

Mel Robbins 24:31 Yeah.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 24:32 There's 150% more anthocyanins in these purple sweet potatoes than there are in those berries. And you know, I love the blue zones. I think the blue zones deliver such a beautiful message. These are the places in the world where people live to be 100 years old. They thrive, they flourish with low levels of chronic disease. I don't think we need to get into the nuances of the research, but we see this pattern and trend. And in Okinawa, Japan, this is one of the areas of the world where women live the longest. So, we gotta love that, right? They love these purple sweet potatoes. So, have a purple sweet potato.

Mel Robbins 25:02 So tell me about the word anthocyanin. What does it do in your body that helps prevent cancer and cure disease and have you live a longer life? What is anthocyanin, like I can't even say it, but what is it doing in your body?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 25:17 You're saying it perfect. So anthocyanins, like many of these other phytonutrients we see in these vegetables and fruits that we have here, they have the opportunity to come into our body. And what we have is we have tumors, genes that will be turned on, and we have tumor genes that can be turned off.

Mel Robbins 25:34 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 25:34 That's how they function with the cancer. And these different molecules can help to either make cancer turn off so that it's not likely to have this proliferation, or they can even turn on things called tumor suppressor genes. These tumor suppressor genes help to be the brakes on any cancer. So you have this really beautiful kind of symphony and orchestra going on in your body at a genetic level. It's very cool.

Mel Robbins 25:56 And that purple potato-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 25:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 25:59 ... can turn off the genes in your body-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:03 That are causing a problem.

Mel Robbins 26:04 ... that are causing cancer, and they can turn on the genes in your body that naturally-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:09 The brakes.

Mel Robbins 26:10 ... break the can- That's crazy.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:11 It's exactly right. So imagine if you're doing a diet that's 60% ultra-processed food and you're not consuming any vegetables and fruits, guess what? So this sounds easy, right? Like we have this here and I mean, it's making, I, it's making us hungry, right? It smells delicious. Would you believe that 90% of Americans aren't getting what they need in terms of vegetables and fruits?

Mel Robbins 26:30 I believe that.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:31 So I- I thought-

Mel Robbins 26:32 I hate that, but I believe it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:33 I didn't believe it, so I did a study at Mayo Clinic in my cancer center. Guess what I learned?

Mel Robbins 26:38 What is it?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 26:38 95% of our patients aren't getting the recommended vegetables and fruits. 95. Every day I come in, the majority of my patients at best are getting two to three servings of vegetables and fruits a day. So the recommendation, there was a great study, and what the study did is it reviewed two perspective studies, meaning studies where people were moving forward and they measured how much vegetables and fruits they consumed. And then they reviewed additional studies in a meta-analysis, which, so this is a really high quality study of another 24 to 26 studies that they reviewed, which is really awesome. And what they showed us is that people who had two or less servings of vegetables and fruits a day versus people who had five-

Mel Robbins 27:15 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 27:16 ... those people that had five had a 10% reduction in dying from cancer, a 12% reduction in dying from heart disease. There was another really fun fact. There was a 35% reduction in dying from respiratory disease. It made me scratch my head. I was like, "What does that mean?" That's what I said. I said, "What does that mean?"

Mel Robbins 27:31 What does that mean?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 27:32 Well, let's think about COVID. There was some cool COVID research. There was a study last year that showed people on more of a plant-based diet, a vegan diet, vegetarian diet, just got more plants, that they had less COVID occurring. And during COVID, there was some healthcare studies and they showed that yes, indeed, people on more of these plant-based diets had less moderate to severe COVID than people who were on more animal predominant studies where they were missing out on some of this. They had a three and a half fold increased risk of more severe COVID.

Mel Robbins 27:58 I wanna make sure I'm, I'm tracking 'cause that was jaw-dropping research.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 28:03 It is crazy.

Mel Robbins 28:04 So you're saying that first of all, based on the research study that you did at Mayo, that cancer patients are not getting the recommended daily amount of vegetable servings that they need, and 90% of cancer patients are not doing it. That's number one.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 28:23 All of America, 90% are doing it in my own cancer center, 95%.

Mel Robbins 28:28 95?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 28:29 95. And this was a group, I also looked at the food insecurity. It wasn't part of this population, so it wasn't driven by food insecurity. It's driven by busy lifestyles and the fact that we just don't make time.

Mel Robbins 28:40 Or you don't know. You don't realize the power of food to heal and prevent. And I just wanna make sure that as you were listening, 'cause I- I- I know you're gonna be sharing this with people in your life who need to hear this research and who need to understand how what you eat is medicine. And there's research, the fact that-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 28:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 28:59 ... it, there was a 10% decrease for people who had five servings of these kinds of vegetables a day-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 29:05 Yes.

Mel Robbins 29:06 ... in death.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 29:07 Of dying, of dying from cancer. It's major. And this is so easy. So this is a cool story. So a lot of folks, food is expensive right now.

Mel Robbins 29:15 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 29:15 Right? And- and especially-

Mel Robbins 29:16 And getting worse, yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 29:17 And especially when you go to the grocery store to buy it. So I had a woman that actually did have food insecurity, and she's doing amazing. And she had a lot of chronic diseases, gets diagnosed with breast cancer and said, "Hey, you need to help me. I wanna change." She did her garden. You know what she does now? She goes online and she teaches people how to garden. It gives me chills. She transformed her cancer diagnosis in this deep meaning and purpose of helping others realize, "Hey, food doesn't have to be expensive. You can grow it in your own backyard."

Mel Robbins 29:47 Dr. Musalem, why do vegetables like cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, why do these prevent or cure cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 29:56 These are some of the most powerful vegetables when it comes to breast cancer, and there's so many fun facts with it. So, you know, some vegetables are a little bit better raw than cooked.

Mel Robbins 30:07 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 30:07 And this is actually one of them, the cruciferous vegetables. And a lot of people are like, "Ah, but it's so gross."

Mel Robbins 30:11 Okay. So crudites plate. Let's see the c- Go ahead and pick up the cauliflower and the broccoli.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 30:16 Yeah. So if we look at this cauliflower and broccoli, these are beautiful cruciferous vegetables. And maybe when I'm ready to cook these, I'll chomp on a few of these before I cook it. And you know why?

Mel Robbins 30:25 Why?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 30:25 Because when they're raw, there's an enzyme in them called myrosinase.

Mel Robbins 30:29 Okay. Murosinase?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 30:30 Myrosinase.

Mel Robbins 30:31 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 30:32 And that enzyme is really magical for trying to absorb the phytonutrients that are in the broccoli, the cauliflower, the Brussels sprouts, the arugula better and more effectively. Now, if you forget about it or you're at a restaurant and they bring your steamed broccoli, no sweat. But, you know, it's kinda fun to think, "How can I get the most out of this vegetable possible?" Eat it raw, or if you wanna eat it cooked just nibble on a little bit raw before you cook it.

Mel Robbins 30:55 Now, let me ask you a question, though. Because I have heard somewhere, I don't know where, that you gotta avoid the broccoli and cauliflower on a crudité plate because it's very hard for your gut to digest it. But you're saying I- in the case of preventing cancer, curing diseases, living a more vital life, it's okay? Or, like, do you just chew it a, a hundred times versus 10 times? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 31:19 You know, that's so interesting, and a lot of people may struggle with this in the beginning because their gut microbiome is a mess. So the more we introduce these foods-

Mel Robbins 31:28 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 31:28 ... into our dietary pattern, the better you do with it. But listen, everyone is an individual and some people may struggle with eating these raw. Some people may not tolerate broccoli. You should listen to your body and the harmony of your body. There, there's a lot of internal wisdom in the body. So if a woman comes in and says, "Ugh, I can't stand broccoli," I say, "Let's not consume it. Let's look through the other cruciferous vegetables that you can enjoy."

Mel Robbins 31:49 Brussels sprouts, arugula, cauliflower.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 31:52 Cabbage.

Mel Robbins 31:52 Cabbage.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 31:52 Everyone loves cabbage. It's one that seems to be very frequently, uh, appealing to patients when I visit with them, but there's many to choose from. And the easy thing, ChatGPT is free, go in and say, "What cruciferous vegetables are out there?" You know? And, and it'll give you a long list of cruciferous vegetables and pick one. Try to eat them raw.

Mel Robbins 32:09 So when you cook it you don't lose the power it has to help prevent or cure cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 32:16 You're still gonna get benefit, but you're gonna get it a little bit more if you have a little bit of raw before you do it because you're gonna get that enzyme. Now, there's a little hack you can do.

Mel Robbins 32:24 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 32:24 Dry mustard seed, the seasoning.

Mel Robbins 32:27 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 32:27 If you decide you just wanna cook these and you don't wanna nibble on any raw, put some dry mustard seed, just sprinkle it on top once it's cooked. It actually tastes delicious. And that dry mustard seed will help you absorb it.

Mel Robbins 32:37 Fantastic. I'm gonna do that when I get home.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 32:39 So cool. Another thing that I'll often do is I'll already have the broccoli steamed, but I do a salad with some arugula in it. And arugula, it doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't have to be exactly the broccoli. If you just wanna have any cruciferous vegetable at the same setting, just try to do some of your cruciferous raw, that's the message, and if not, put some dry mustard seed on it. Let's get all the bang for our buck, if we can, from these amazing ingredients, and it's really cool what they do. So when it comes to breast cancer, it helps to make estrogen into a less proliferative form, into a more-

Mel Robbins 33:08 What's proliferative mean?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 33:09 You know, when we think of the breast tissue, we think of the fact that the breast tissue itself can be in a proliferative state where cells can grow more.

Mel Robbins 33:18 Got it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 33:18 And what the broccoli can do is it can transition the estrogen actually in our body to a form of estrogen that doesn't cause that proliferation. Proliferation is growth. So you can imagine if something's upregulating growth, that's not a good thing, right?

Mel Robbins 33:32 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 33:32 We want things that try to turn off that growth, and it keeps that in check. There's many other things that the cruciferous vegetables do. It's like a master at detoxification. So often I have patients say, "I'm gonna go do a detox, but what do you recommend?" I say, "Just eat healthy food." Get some broccoli. It's your natural detoxification. You don't have to go spend a bunch of money on a fancy detox. And I would actually rather people do it a more natural, safe way than go and put themself through a, a major detox. So I just do it with the natural foods.

Mel Robbins 34:00 Tell me about the black beans there. T- t- let's talk about beans, and why do they prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 34:08 So beans are really awesome. So there is so much benefit. This is an amazing plant protein. But when you think about plant protein, you're not just getting protein, you're getting fiber.

Mel Robbins 34:18 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 34:19 And fiber is obviously in all of these plant foods. You only get fiber from plants. And fiber is magic. I mean, oh my gosh, we could talk for two hours on fiber it's so important. And you hear a lot right now, like, "Get protein, get protein, get protein." So yes, you need protein. There's no doubt you need protein. But the problem is, is the majority of Americans, just like the vegetables and fruits, they're fiber deficient. 95% of men are fiber deficient and about 91% of women are fiber deficient. This is a massive problem. There was just something called a, we call an umbrella review, meaning they did this very exciting review of all of the data to date. This was just published this year. 17 million person-years in the study. And what it showed us is that there's class one evidence, this is, like, the highest quality evidence we have in medicine, that fiber can help to reduce dying from any cause, dying from heart disease. It can also reduce the risk of dying from pancreas cancer in this class one evidence.

Mel Robbins 35:11 What?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:12 It's really exciting. There was another study, another review of the data that was just published that showed that fiber can help to reduce the risk of cancer by 22%.

Mel Robbins 35:19 Okay, hold on. Fiber-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:20 Fiber.

Mel Robbins 35:20 ... can help reduce the risk of cancer by 22%?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:23 22%. But we have 90%, over 90% of people that aren't getting enough. So let's talk further. So I always think about food swaps with people.

Mel Robbins 35:31 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:31 Like, how can we maybe just swap one thing out? You know, you don't have to do beans at every meal. And a lot of people say, "Oh my gosh, you're gonna make me gassy." Well, just start slow. You don't need to do too much. And cook them really good. So let's talk about this a little more. There's an enzyme in beans. (laughs) This is so fun. It's like food is medicine, right?

Mel Robbins 35:47 I love this.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:48 It's like fun facts. So there's this enzyme, it's called raffinose, and that's the gassy one.

Mel Robbins 35:52 Raffinose is the gassy enzyme.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:54 It sounds like it.

Mel Robbins 35:55 Yeah, it does.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:55 It's, like, such a lovely word, raffinose.

Mel Robbins 35:56 Yes, yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:56 That's why you wanna soak beans. So if you buy them dry-

Mel Robbins 35:59 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 35:59 ... it's such an inexpensive, so much less expense than meat.

Mel Robbins 36:01 It's so cheap too. Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:02 It's so cheap.

Mel Robbins 36:02 Buy the beans dry, put them in the Crockpot overnight, yep.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:05 Soak them, you got it.

Mel Robbins 36:06 Yeah.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:06 You wanna soak them and then rinse them really good and then cook them. That's why-

Mel Robbins 36:09 Why do we need to rinse them really good?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:10 You're rinsing off that raffinose. That raffinose-

Mel Robbins 36:12 Oh, so we're getting rid of the gas.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:13 Getting rid of the gas.

Mel Robbins 36:14 Got it. Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:14 So if you get gassy, kind of ask yourself, "Hmm, did I soak them long enough and rinse them?" Now, I'm really busy. I know a lot of people listening are busy. I oftentime just do canned beans. And so you wanna rinse all that stuff off that it was soaking in. Rinse them, rinse them, rinse them. And then heat them up.

Mel Robbins 36:30 I've never heard of that.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:30 That's why. That's why people get gassy.

Mel Robbins 36:31 I always keep the juice.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:32 The raffinose?

Mel Robbins 36:32 Okay, I don't want the juice-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:33 You don't want the raffinose.

Mel Robbins 36:34 ... because I don't want the juice in my body. You know what I'm saying?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:36 You know what?

Mel Robbins 36:36 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:36 Okay, I have to share another study.

Mel Robbins 36:37 Tell me.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:38 C- can I keep going?

Mel Robbins 36:38 Please.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 36:39 Okay. So this one is super cool. So-When we think about red meat, a lot of times people talk about how a carnivore diet can improve things like diabetes. This is very interesting. So there was recently a study published, and what it showed is that red meat and processed meat drives the risk of diabetes by about 60%. (gasps)

Mel Robbins 36:59 Wait, processed meat and red meat-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:00 Processed.

Mel Robbins 37:00 ... drives your risk of, to diabetes to 60%?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:05 Yes.

Mel Robbins 37:05 What?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:06 Yes. And so this is the people that had the most-

Mel Robbins 37:08 Why?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:08 ... versus the people that had the least. Okay, so-

Mel Robbins 37:10 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:10 ... any of these studies when you hear people talking, you always wanna scratch your head and say, "I wonder what they're comparing it to." And oftentimes, it's the most versus the least.

Mel Robbins 37:16 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:17 So if you have a little bit of red meat, say one, two s- three servings a week, that's not gonna cause you to have diabetes. But if you're having red meat three times a day every day, that's a big problem. So what this study showed us that was really cool, we're talking about these food flips, right? If you flip out one serving of red meat or processed meat a day for beans or nuts, you reduce that risk of diabetes by about 30%. I mean, how easy is this? Think about if you're doing, like, a Mexican meal where you have some meat that you put seasoni- skip the meat, do the beans, put the same seasoning in it, it's delicious. If you're doing soup, you can put maybe a few pieces of meat if you really like that meat stock flavor, right? It's not gonna hurt you.

Mel Robbins 37:52 Are all beans-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:53 But load it up with beans.

Mel Robbins 37:54 Are all beans created equal?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 37:55 Are there beans that you like better?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 37:56 No, do what you like. Do what you like. Do what's unique to you. I find in my patients, they seem to tolerate lentils and split peas initially best, and then you put over them.

Mel Robbins 38:05 And do those have just as much benefit, lentils and split peas?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 38:08 Sure. Do what is you. Do which one you enjoy the most. And, you know, I know for myself personally, I don't tolerate kidney beans. They make me feel icky. I, I will never have a kidney bean in my house. Black beans, I love, you know, and lentils. They're so yummy. So it's really exciting. And, you know, sometimes I'll work with patients, and I'll have them... I just had a woman this week who I gave her this suggestion, she's still doing it. She does steel-cut oats with some lentils in it, and then she adds some cherries when she cooks it.

Mel Robbins 38:36 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 38:37 And she loves it. It's how she gets her protein. She's very committed to a whole food, plant-predominant diet, and she loves getting some of those lentils as her protein source in the morning. So, you know, you can get really creative with these things. They take on the flavor of whatever you're cooking.

Mel Robbins 38:49 Dr., uh, Musalem, why does edamame-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 38:52 Oh.

Mel Robbins 38:52 ... prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 38:54 Really exciting data. So this is the biggest myth that's out there.

Mel Robbins 38:58 Biggest myth that's out there.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 39:00 Biggest myth that's out there, that edamame causes cancer.

Mel Robbins 39:02 What?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 39:03 So the majority of your listeners are gonna be like, "I think Mel said that wrong. Mel just said, 'Why does edamame pre- vent cancer?'" Mel is right, 100%. Edamame are amazing. So but several decades ago, there was research done in rodents, and we're not rodents, right? So this is how lab data can get very dangerous. You hear these studies in the lab or in this preclinical, meaning pre, before the clinic, in this lab data, that these lab studies are preventing X, Y, and Z disease. These studies need to be replicated in the human being. So in these lab studies with rodents, they showed that, yes, consuming too much soy actually caused mammary tumors.

Mel Robbins 39:37 I remember this.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 39:38 Remember this? Don't eat soy. It's gonna cause tumors in your breast tissue. That was the worst science ever, because humans do not metabolize soy the way that rodents do. We could use our common sense with this. We could look to Asia. We see in Asia, people have very low levels of cancer in their breast, very, very low levels. And so if we really apply it to the human data, the research is beyond exciting. There are very few things we can consume that God forbid you ever got breast cancer would reduce your risk of dying, and edamame are one of those. And one of the most influential times you have that edamame is when you're a young girl. And if you're a man, it's not gonna make you grow boobs. And if you're a young boy, it's gonna be very protective for his prostate too. So we know that soy is also good to reduce the risk of prostate cancer. There's even some research that says it reduces the risk of lung cancer. And it's amazing for the gut microbiome. But let me talk about breast cancer, 'cause a lot of women with breast cancer avoid soy. Even though that we know this data that it looks protective, they avoid soy. Well, the American Cancer S- Society's 2022 data on nutrition and exercise update dedicated three paragraphs to the safety of soy in breast cancer survivors. And it didn't just show safety. In this beautiful meta-analysis, it showed that there was a 25% reduction in breast cancer coming back. And this was most pronounced in women with the most aggressive type of breast cancer, one that's estrogen receptor negative. But even if women had estrogen receptor positive, breast cancer would still benefit. So it's really amazing, and how this works is there's res- two receptors in the breast. The estrogen receptor beta is where that soy likes to bind, and remember we talked about proliferation?

Mel Robbins 41:13 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:13 That's where we turn off the proliferation is estrogen receptor beta.

Mel Robbins 41:16 So when the, when the soy binds with the beta, it turns off the proliferation-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:21 That's right.

Mel Robbins 41:21 ... of estrogen, which increases the spread of cancer. And by turning it off, you're preventing it from coming back, and you're also fighting it if you have it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:30 Exactly right. And then, you know, our natural body's estrogen binds to that estrogen receptor alpha, preferentially, and that's the one that turns on this proliferation.

Mel Robbins 41:38 So beta turns it down, alpha turns it on?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:40 You got it.

Mel Robbins 41:41 Got it. So-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:42 So cool.

Mel Robbins 41:42 Okay, so explain that part again about the alpha. What does it do?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 41:45 That's where the body's natural estrogen would bind that turns on this proliferation. So the soy does this really favorable thing at the level of the breast where we get protection. And that's exactly what we see in these studies. And it's a plant protein, so it's super cool. So how many women, how m- I mean, hot flashes, right?

Mel Robbins 42:02 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 42:03 Uh, what do we do with those? (laughs) Massive.

Mel Robbins 42:05 Look at them. I, I had one last night. I literally was sleeping at the hotel with my leg outside the comforter in order to try to regulate my temperature. Yes. What am I eating?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 42:14 Well, you're gonna eat these.

Mel Robbins 42:14 What do I need to eat, Dr. Musalem, for hot flashes?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 42:17 Well, you start eating these right now. So- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 42:19 I already eat, like, I need to eat more edamame, clearly. Like, I order it when I'm out, and occasionally I'll make it at home. But I need to eat m- like, I'm about ready to take that cup of it and just throw it back right now.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 42:30 (laughs) I love it. So this is amazing. You know, when patients come in to see me and they have their hot flashes, which I'm working with women, 75% of breast cancers are estrogen receptor positive, so these women are on anti-estrogen medications from the age of 20 all the way to, you know, late 80s, I see women. And so they have massive hot flashes oftentimes. The number one thing I start with is soy. There's great research done by Neal Barnard. He's repeated the study twice to show that edamame, a half a cup a day-In addition to eating a healthy plant-based diet, reduce ... (laughs) What? You ready for this? M- it reduced moderate to severe hot flashes. You're on the edge of your seat. By 88%.

Mel Robbins 43:05 Wait, what?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:05 It's crazy, isn't it?

Mel Robbins 43:06 Wait, all I have to do is have a half a cup of edamame a day and I could experience an 80% decrease in hot flashes?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:14 88% reduction in moderate to severe hot flashes. He repeated this study and there was another one that showed as high as 92% reduction.

Mel Robbins 43:20 Dr. Musalem, you know what I say?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:22 Let's eat some edamame. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 43:23 Yeah, pass me the damn edamame right now. (laughs)

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:26 Okay, it gets better. So okay, you ready?

Mel Robbins 43:27 It gets better?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:27 It's even better. So in this study, you know what else they showed us?

Mel Robbins 43:29 Tell me.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:30 Their moods felt better. But it's even better than this, their libido picked up.

Mel Robbins 43:33 Oh my gosh.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:33 They felt sexy again. So, so- (laughs)

Mel Robbins 43:35 Don- y- you know, Chris is gonna be shoving this at me. Like, "Eat some edamame, Mel."

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:38 (laughs) Yeah, I have a funny story. I actually did a talk, uh, for the Super Bowl last year right around Valentine's Day, and I presented this data. And they said, "I'm buying edamame on my way home." You know, every man there, so it's pretty cute. But yeah, so eat your edamame. It's a great source of plant protein. It's delicious. You could do edamame, you could do tofu, you could do tempeh, you could do soy milk. You know, super easy.

Mel Robbins 43:54 I like the edamame.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 43:55 I do too, so-

Mel Robbins 43:56 I do too. So now I'm getting my fiber, I am getting my amino acid leucine profile-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 44:01 ... protein count.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:02 It's a complete-

Mel Robbins 44:03 I'm also getting my hot flashes decreased by 80%. I'm binding to my beta whatever they were called in my breasts, so it's turning, it's, it's turning down the cancer and estrogen stuff. I can't explain it quite like you did-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:17 You got it. In it.

Mel Robbins 44:17 ... but I kind of understand it. And my mood's going to be better. I think you just saved my marriage.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:21 (laughs) I, I hope so. I, I think it's already beautiful.

Mel Robbins 44:23 And my hot flashes, and my ... Well, we're celebrating our 29th-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:27 Aw.

Mel Robbins 44:27 ... wedding anniversary this weekend, so-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:28 Oh, that's beautiful.

Mel Robbins 44:29 But I think edamame-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:29 Happy anniversary.

Mel Robbins 44:30 ... can always make it a little better.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:32 Aw, happy anniversary.

Mel Robbins 44:32 I'll be eating it

Mel Robbins 44:33 every day. Um, let's talk about ... Let's talk about kiwi.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:37 Oh, kiwi.

Mel Robbins 44:37 So I see kiwi.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:38 Oh my gosh.

Mel Robbins 44:38 Why does kiwi prevent cancer? And I see you smiling, you love kiwi. Tell me why you love kiwi so much, Dr. Musalem?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 44:45 These little things, they're so cute, but they help with regularity, meaning poop. So I would say 90% of women coming in to see me, they're not having any bowel movements and they feel bloated. They feel full. They f- I mean, it's just, I can't imagine how people feel. Some people say they don't have a bowel movement for 10 days.

Mel Robbins 45:03 How i- Oh, that sounds horrible.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:05 Can you imagine? It's really bad, because when that poop sits inside, you're auto-intoxing, you're reabsorbing all those chemicals into your body as it's sitting there.

Mel Robbins 45:10 Wait, what? Hold on a second.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:11 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 45:11 So when you're constipated, the waste, which is poop, is just sitting there in your system. You're reabsorbing the waste that's trying to get out?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:19 Yeah, it, it reabsorbs.

Mel Robbins 45:21 What?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:22 Yes, it's very ... You want to get rid of that waste. You ... Ideally, you know people are supposed to have a bowel movement after each meal?

Mel Robbins 45:28 You're supposed to have a bowel movement after each meal?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:30 No one does that, 'cause in America we're in this fast-paced ... So k- we kind of as kids like learned that, no, y- you know, you go maybe after breakfast when you're home and maybe after dinner if you're lucky. No one typically is going after each meal. But ideally, that's best. Oftentimes patients transition to this more plant-predominant diet.

Mel Robbins 45:42 Uh-huh.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:43 And they'll call my nurse and say, "I think something's wrong. She put me on this diet and I'm, I'm pooping. I'm having a bowel movement after each meal." And the nurse is like, "Oh, no, no, no, she loves that." You know? (laughs) So this is cool though, so let's say someone is just struggling, they are constipated for whatever reason.

Mel Robbins 45:56 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 45:56 Maybe it's their treatment. We give Zofran for nausea for cancer patients, it causes a lot of constipation. Kiwi, two kiwi a day, after about a week or two can help you with that constipation.

Mel Robbins 46:07 Why?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 46:08 It just helps with the different sorts of soluble fibers and mucinous fibers and proteins and whatnot that are in this, it helps with it, but i- it's better than that. At the level of DNA, these are rich in vitamin C, but at the level of, of our DNA, it can help to reduce oxidative stress. You know, think about an antioxidant. We take antioxidants to fight cancer, we take all these expensive pills and powders, right? Just eat your kiwi. But I, I, I love this with the skin, right? The skin is so great because it's more fiber for you. So this is a wonderful food to add in, it helps with the overall diversity of what you're consuming.

Mel Robbins 46:41 Now why does a kiwi prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 46:44 It's super cool. So this really gets like on the cellular level, which can you imagine, like that's how, how great is it?

Mel Robbins 46:49 That's so cool. Food is medicine.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 46:51 It's so cool. So at the level of DNA, it can reduce oxidative stress. So we go and we buy antioxidants, we spend all this money on pills-

Mel Robbins 46:59 Wait, hold on. What is oxidative stress? Like I see it on packaging, but what actually is it?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:05 Yeah. So oxidative stress is what comes from us from everything as simple as breathing oxygen from the environment, to having any stressors in life-

Mel Robbins 47:13 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:13 ... to just really living.

Mel Robbins 47:15 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:15 We get this oxidative damage that builds up. Certain foods can even kind of cause this trigger as well. But what these little magical fruits do is they go in and they help to turn off that oxidative stress, they come to the rescue basically.

Mel Robbins 47:27 So life basically has turned on the oxidative stress in your body at a cellular level, and you eat a kiwi, and not only is it helping with constipation, but it's flipping the switch off on-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:41 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 47:41 ... stress at a, like mone- molecu- b- I can't say the word, molecular level?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:46 Exactly, at the level of our DNA, like our genetic makeup.

Mel Robbins 47:49 What? Wow.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 47:49 It's super cool, and it helps to repair that DNA. So it's really a magical fruit, but it's like this with all these vegetables and fruits. These all have these magical powers within these phytonutrients and molecules that just help the body and rescue it. You know, the body is, has such wisdom to heal itself.

Mel Robbins 48:05 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 48:06 But we just have to give it the tools to do this.

Mel Robbins 48:07 And is it better if these are raw? Do you get more benefit if you're eating these raw? I mean, clearly just eat them, but if you can just pop fresh kiwi in your mouth, if you can do it that way, it's better?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 48:19 Exactly, so there's two vegetables that are better cooked and that's carrots and tomatoes, and both of those are actually better with a little fat. You get more of that lycopene, you absorb it in the tomato, and the beta carotene in the carrot. So those are two vegetables that would be better to cook them than raw in terms of extracting all those phytonutrients. Uh, I mean, I love raw carrots, so I eat them all the time. It doesn't mean don't eat raw carrots, it just means if you really wanted to go and reap all the benefits and how you would extract those phytonutrients best, cook them in a little bit of olive oil, nice extra virgin olive oil. It's amazing.

Mel Robbins 48:51 Amazing. And is it true that even if you have a patient that comes in with a cancer diagnosis to your practice and they've really just let themselves go, I mean, I think for women in particular as we're taking care of everybody else and we have a really busy life and it's easy to get the stuff, grab and go and not find time to exercise, even if you've made-... kind of now that you're realizing, "Oh, my God. Like, I gotta put the boxes down and the cans away, and I gotta get back to a really more sensible whole food diet," can you really reverse the stuff that you've done? Can your body really kind of flip the switch, even if you've let yourself go for a while? Is this available to all of us at any age?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 49:29 Oh, I love this. You ready?

Mel Robbins 49:31 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 49:31 Get on the end of your seat, 'cause you're going to for this one. So, you know, if we're young in the age of 20 and we start eating better, yeah, you can imagine. For women, we can add 11 extra years to our life. For men, 13 years.

Mel Robbins 49:41 Wait, hold on a second. Say that again?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 49:44 Yeah. So if you're 20 and you say, "Hey, I'm listening to this show, and we're gonna start eating all these vegetables and fruits, and more whole grains, plant proteins," just a little bit better, doesn't mean you need to be vegan, that you can add 11 years if you're a woman onto your life expectancy of healthy years. If you're a man, 13 years. But it gets better.

Mel Robbins 50:03 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:03 You ready? Can I keep, can I just? You ready?

Mel Robbins 50:04 Yes, yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:05 If you're in your 60s, so you really beat yourself up.

Mel Robbins 50:09 Yep.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:09 You're 60, you get your breast cancer diagnosis.

Mel Robbins 50:12 Uh-oh.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:12 You can add eight years life expectancy.

Mel Robbins 50:14 Wait, what?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:15 Wait, it gets better. Okay, here's the cool one. Ready? Drum roll. You ready?

Mel Robbins 50:18 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:19 If you're 80, I, I have concepts, and they're 80, like, "Why am I seeing you? I'm 80." Like granted, she's outlived that the life expectancy of most women in our country. "Can you really help me?" And I say, "I absolutely can, and here's the study that proves it." You can add 3.4 years of life expectancy. It's so cool.

Narrator 50:38 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 50:38 Just through the changes in food?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 50:40 Yes. By eating healthier. It's truly amazing. So healthy living, you know, really comes with its own benefits. And we see in this, you know, science, this is longevity central now, everywhere on social media. Every big city you go to, it's anti-aging clinics everywhere you go. And these programs must be built on healthy living, because there's no magic bullet that's gonna help you age healthy and feel wonderful in that time like healthy living will. And we know that about 75% of that healthy aging equation is modifiable, it comes from our lifestyle.

Mel Robbins 51:17 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 51:17 So it's so important to really lean in, show up for ourselves. It's never too late, even if you have this cancer diagnosis. And we know if you are diagnosed with cancer, you know, that can be a hard time for some people. They're busy with their treatment, they don't feel good, and they're processing a lot. And the cancer research really says, you know, it really kinda starts in these s- in these studies about a year after the diagnosis.

Mel Robbins 51:38 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 51:38 I want my gals to get as busy as they can at the time of diagnosis, because we know that if we can get as busy as we can during treatment, that they just feel better. They have improved quality of life. There were two recent studies that explored this, and they were very fascinating. Small studies, but they give us a snapshot of how cancer patients do during treatment. And one actually did a whole food plant-only diet, like a vegan diet. They supplemented them with some protein powder. And what they showed is, yes, these patients during chemo had less fatigue. That's what I see in my patients.

Mel Robbins 52:10 I, as you're listening, want you to think of every 20-year-old in your life. I want you to think of anybody in your life that has gotten a cancer diagnosis. I want you to think of anybody in your life in your 60s and your 80s that may or may not have taken good care of themselves. And I want you to share this episode with them, because it's an act of love. It is a generous gift to give the gift of Doctor Musalem to the people that you

Mel Robbins 52:36 care about. So we've talked so much about the foods that you can eat that activate the natural intelligence in your body to prevent or cure cancer. Let's talk about the top five foods that we should avoid that cause cancer.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 52:52 Yeah. You know where I'm gonna start, right?

Mel Robbins 52:53 No.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 52:54 Ultra-processed foods.

Mel Robbins 52:55 Okay, so anything-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 52:56 Number one rule.

Mel Robbins 52:56 ... in a box?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 52:57 No, not necessarily. What I s- Because we are in a busy, fast-paced life, so we need easy solutions, me included, right? So what I do is I spend a lot of time in the grocery store. And I tell my patients, "Listen, you're going to, too. This is, this takes time."

Mel Robbins 53:14 Okay. What am I looking for-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 53:15 Gotta make a commitment.

Mel Robbins 53:15 ... when I'm in a grocery store?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 53:16 You're gonna look at that ingredient list on the box, on the package, whatever it is you're buying that's not in the produce aisle. So as soon as you go in the aisle, you know, when you're on the perimeter, it's kinda like Whole Foods. Soon as you're in the aisle, let's look at those labels and see what's in the ingredient list. If there's words in there that you're like, "What the heck is that?" put it back on the shelf.

Mel Robbins 53:32 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 53:32 You just don't need it. You just don't. Look for those ultra-processed foods on the ingredient list with words that we have no clue what they are. You know, there was a study that was really, really fascinating. It was done o- out of the UK, and it showed that, you know, almost 30% of the food by weight was ultra-processed food. And for every 10-point increment increase in that ultra-processed food, yes, it certainly drove the risk of cancer, but this is a really startling statistic. It drove the risk of dying from breast cancer by 16% and increased the risk of dying from ovarian cancer by 30%. Like, these numbers c- create almost a visceral response. It almost makes me sick to share that, because that's, that's really harsh to think that fake food can have that kinda impact. And we know that it drives risks of chronic diseases, these fake foods. Diabetes, heart disease, you know, all these things. The number one killer of women and men is heart disease. And we know these ultra-processed foods just wreak havoc there, too. There was another study. You know, when you start to think about, well, what constituents are ones I really need to be careful of.

Mel Robbins 54:32 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 54:33 So there was another study done among 92,000 individuals from France. They followed them for almost seven years. Okay, here's another one. So this is a hard one to believe. It drove the risk of breast cancer with the consumption of mono and diglycerides.

Mel Robbins 54:48 Who? Mono and di g-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 54:50 Listen.

Mel Robbins 54:51 Uh, okay, what is that?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 54:51 This is in everything. So you know those wrap sandwiches that we make?

Mel Robbins 54:55 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 54:55 They're either, uh, you know, they're healthy. We're doing a good job. We're, like, trying to eat a healthy veggie wrap.Many times, these wrapped sandwiches, to get it so it rolls nice-

Mel Robbins 55:02 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 55:03 ... they add that mono and diglyceride to make it roll nice.

Mel Robbins 55:05 Mono and a g- glyceride. It's, that's what I'm looking for.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 55:08 Mono and diglycerides drove the risk of breast cancer by 24%. Okay, prostate cancer, it drove the risk by 46%.

Mel Robbins 55:15 Did you hear that, gentlemen? Get the, do not eat that.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 55:18 But listen, these mono and diglycerides are in a lot of stuff. So we have people that hear maybe what I'm saying, they're like, "Oh, maybe I should be vegan." That is not my message. My message is whole food, plant predominant. That's really where I want people to be is that whole food component. The vegan ice creams, I had a patient before I came here yesterday. She was doing vegan ice cream thinking she was doing good. You know, it, I just said, "Just do the regular ice cream. How often do you do it?" She goes, "Once a week." Enjoy your ice cream. You don't, you don't need the fake stuff.

Mel Robbins 55:47 Because there's a lot of fake stuff in a lot of that stuff.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 55:49 Just because it says vegan doesn't mean it's healthy. Look at the ingredient list. Get rid of those mono and diglycerides. Carrageenans drove breast cancer risk by 32%. For a long time, we found this a lot in plant milks. Ugh. You know, people are trying to be healthier, and then we find these ingredients that aren't good are in these foods. So, so take a look at the ingredient list, uh, it's really, really important, and just try not to do those chemicals that wouldn't otherwise be good for your body.

Mel Robbins 56:12 What are the other ingredients if you had to have five that we're really looking for on the back of an ingredient list, don't go near it. One of them was the mono...

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 56:20 Yeah, mono and diglycerides.

Mel Robbins 56:21 Mono and diglycerides. The other one was a carr-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 56:24 The carrageenans.

Mel Robbins 56:25 Carrageenans. Give me a couple others.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 56:27 You know, and the food colorings. You know, at the government policy level, they're really starting to get rid of food colorings. There's so many ingredients on the ingredient list they, they kind of try to twist around that it's really hard to even know what these ingredients are anymore. So it's such a huge umbrella and net of words that are on there, I just typically say let's just try not to do the foods that we bring into our home that have these words that we have no clue what they are. There was a study that was, uh, looked at this weekend, I actually called my good friend, Dr. Sarah Chomsri. We do a lot of studies together with gut microbiome. She's big into immunotherapy. And man, this is scary. It said individuals on immunotherapy who consumed sucralose, so these are in these sugar-free beverid- rev- beverages. We didn't think that these things actually seemed as sinister, you know, as a lot of people point them out to be. They're definitely not a health food, but do they really cause harm like people point them out to be? Probably need a lot of it to really cause harm. But they found that the sucralose reduced the effectiveness of immunotherapy and the treatments that are curing cancers that the sucralose messes with the gut microbiome. This is what it's suggesting. So this is a shout-out, you know, let's really try to skip these artificial sweeteners. Lean in on something like, you know, dates or use honey or maple syrup, or if you're on, you know, more of a calorie restriction, look at stevia or monk fruit.

Mel Robbins 57:45 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 57:45 And even when you buy those, take a look at the ingredients 'cause guess what? In this natural food industry, everyone's coming to the market and some of those foods are a little more processed than they should be.

Mel Robbins 57:56 So the stevia's okay, the monk fruit is okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 57:58 Green light.

Mel Robbins 57:59 Here and there. Green light.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 58:01 Totally green light.

Mel Robbins 58:01 I love it. Literally, green light.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 58:02 Total green light.

Mel Robbins 58:03 But you, w- with a product with stevia or monk fruit, you still wanna look and see is there something else scary hidden in there?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 58:10 Uh, I think so. You know, there are some of these packets of the stevia that add erythritol. I will be first to say I think that research was exaggerated. You would need a lot of erythritol to really cause a true problem in terms of cardiovascular health.

Mel Robbins 58:25 But you still wanna avoid it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 58:26 Exactly. There's a s- And it gives you a lot of GI upset, so why do it? It's gonna make your belly feel bloated. Anything that has that ol- on the end, O-L, is usually a sugar alcohol. Sorbitol, erythritol. And your belly's just gonna hurt. You know, if you do too much sugar-free candy and you're like, "Ugh," it feels like you have razor blades in your stomach. So just be cautious with those sugar alcohols. Again, not all of them are definitely doing harm that we know of for sure. The erythritol is one that's definitely on the watch list because it seems to make platelets, the cells that help to clot the blood, it seems to make them a little stickier.

Mel Robbins 58:58 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 58:59 You know, but again, it would take so much. It's more of a cellular reaction in the body in response to stress that releases some erythritol. If you consume it, does it do the same thing? That's what we need to find out. You know, some of this research is, you know, done in, in isolated situations in the lab that when applied to the human doesn't really work directly in that mechanism, but still, you don't need it.

Mel Robbins 59:19 Got it. And so if you're looking at something derived from dates or honey or bananas or something like that or stevia without the erythritol or however you say it, or monk fruit, we're good.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 59:31 Exactly. Medjool dates, I mean, it's God's candy, you know? They are so healthy and they don't drive your blood sugar up. It's the coolest thing. They almost have this insulin-sensitizing feature, so if children want a delicious snack, take a Medjool date, take the pit out, and put a pecan in the middle. It's like heaven. So good.

Mel Robbins 59:52 Amazing. And other than ultra-processed, what are the top foods, Dr. Musalem-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 59:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:59 ... to avoid because-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:00:00 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:01 ... of cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:00:01 So processed meat, kind of in the processed foods and maybe, but processed meat is a class one carcinogen. That's right. So it's linked to the increased risk of several cancers, but it especially drives that risk of colorectal cancer. I mean, this is in a lot of stuff, right? So this is pepperoni, this is sausage, this is bacon. This is even chicken nuggets. This is lunch meat.

Mel Robbins 1:00:23 You are out for the charcuterie board.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:00:25 I am.

Mel Robbins 1:00:25 I mean, is there any kind of salami or, or bruschetta or any of that stuff? Like, if you get it from your local farmer, are we okay? Or is it just big buying it behind the deli counter situation?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:00:34 So let's have, you know, let's have an honest conversation. So I, what I share with people is how much of this are you cons- gonna consume? And you're in this social gathering, you may have a piece, what, once or twice a month? That's just not enough to hurt you. The body is resilient, but if someone's having it every day, that's when it adds up.

Mel Robbins 1:00:47 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:00:47 You gotta live, and if you love having some of that charcuterie, and we certainly know in the Mediterranean countries, and I think a Mediterranean diet can be very healthy. If that's what you do, just because I don't do it doesn't mean that I think that it's gonna kill you. But what I'm here to say is, yes, processed food is considered a carcinogen. So are cigarettes.If you smoked one cigarette four times a year, that's also probably not gonna cause cancer. But that would sound ridiculous as a doctor if I said-

Mel Robbins 1:01:11 Yes.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:12 ... "Go and have a cigarette once in a while." But why do we frown down so much if I say, "Yeah, you should avoid processed meat"? People get very protective around the discussion of food. So I'm just here to kind of talk some sense into what that really means.

Mel Robbins 1:01:23 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:23 I share this with my patients, like speeding on the highway. You know, when you get in your car, put on your seatbelt, let's keep yourself safe. Speed is posted 65, you're going 67, 68, you're not gonna get a ticket, especially if you're doing everything else right. You know, stay in your lane, get your vegetables and fruits, get your fiber, get what you need, don't throw the whole meal away if you have the charcuterie, lay it on some avocado and get some whole grain crackers, enjoy yourself. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:01:46 (laughs) I love you. You're my new doctor. That's all I'm saying. You're my new doctor. (laughs)

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:51 But I won't be eating the charcuterie, by the way.

Mel Robbins 1:01:53 That's fine.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:53 (laughs) So don't ask me.

Mel Robbins 1:01:54 You know what? Let them.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:55 Yeah, let them.

Mel Robbins 1:01:56 I'm happy to have a couple pieces of salami.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:01:58 (laughs) Let them enjoy it.

Mel Robbins 1:01:58 Yes, with some avocado and some olives.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02:00 But no one enjoys me when I'm at a party, 'cause everyone behaves, you know? And it's all the people behind me that are doing all the stuff, and everyone in front of me is, like, doing, and they go to the back and do it. (laughs) It's so complicated.

Mel Robbins 1:02:09 Honestly, I think I would enjoy you anywhere.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02:11 Aw.

Mel Robbins 1:02:11 So don't worry about that.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02:12 Ah.

Mel Robbins 1:02:12 Let them think what they're gonna

Mel Robbins 1:02:14 think.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02:14 Aw.

Mel Robbins 1:02:14 So you talked about exercise. Let's talk about how exercise, particularly when you have a cancer diagnosis or you are battling some other illness, talk to me about the healing properties in exercise.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:02:33 You know, there's this really cool mechanism that takes place that we're still doing research on. It appears that exercise during that period of chemotherapy improves cancer outcomes. We see this with metastatic breast cancer too, so it's extremely exciting. And the one hard thing with cancer treatment is oftentimes people lose muscle, you know, and that's the metabolic tissue. So if you can try to do your cardiovascular work to try to really keep that cardiorespiratory, meaning the heart and lungs, as fit as possible, but also even trying to lift some weights during your cancer treatment, it can really help to maintain that muscle, which is gonna make your survivorship easier. Like I shared the statistics with breast cancer, as you exercise as a breast cancer survivor can improve outcomes by 50%.

Mel Robbins 1:03:21 Meaning the cancer doesn't come back?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:03:23 Yeah. It r- it improves survival from all causes from breast cancer by up to 50%.

Mel Robbins 1:03:27 Wow.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:03:28 It's a really powerful number. You know, if someone cornered me and said, "What is the most important thing a cancer patient should do?" I, I wouldn't really answer one. I would refuse to answer one, 'cause there's, like, three things at the top of the list.

Mel Robbins 1:03:38 What are the top three things a cancer patient should be doing, Dr. Musalem?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:03:42 Well, I would start, number one is love. Love self, love others. It starts there. It's that simple. Because if you don't love yourself enough to show up for yourself, to exercise, move your body, and take time to find healthy food, you're not gonna be able to do this, so we gotta start there.

Mel Robbins 1:03:54 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:03:55 Love self and then love others. Like, just open that heart and be kind. It feels so good. Like, I love you. And I love all of you.

Mel Robbins 1:04:02 I love you too.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:04:03 I just... It just feels good. You say that and you elevate the energy of the room. And if you do that, you're gonna be more energized, you're gonna have more pep in your step, even during that chemo, to go walk. And, you know, it's kind of a responsibility even to help others. We feel good, so we should be kinda good stewards in the world to share that energy with people that aren't doing as good today, to help them. So, starts with love. Show up for yourself, move your body. You don't need to be running marathons, just go for a little walk. I say, hey, five minutes counts, even if you're walking around your kitchen. Hey, do a few dance moves. I don't care. Dance with your husband. It doesn't matter, just move. You don't need to go to a gym.

Mel Robbins 1:04:37 Love, move, and what's the third thing every cancer patient should be doing?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:04:42 Yeah. It, it... Hey, it's the food. And you know that's my favorite. Like, food is love 'cause ............................ It's gonna give you the energy, nourish your body, help you with regeneration, actually turn off those tumor promoter genes, turn on those tumor suppressor genes, and it's just gonna optimize everything from your mood, to your sleep even, which we'll talk to in a little bit here, to that gut microbiome and beyond. So the food is fun. Let's do it. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:05:04 Absolutely

Mel Robbins 1:05:05 love this. Uh, well, let's talk about sleep.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:05:08 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:05:08 Does sleep help you prevent cancer?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:05:10 Oh. Sleep is rough. Man, I... So I, I live a pretty healthy lifestyle, but I, I sleep like a baby, but I just can't find time for sleep these days. I would just rather be activated and alive. But listen, that sounds funny, right? It, it... That's not actually a funny thing. We need sleep. Sleep is when our brain gets its bath.

Mel Robbins 1:05:28 Talk to me.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:05:29 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:05:29 What, what do you mean your brain gets a bath?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:05:31 Seven to nine hours is what it takes for the brain to kind of get its little washing to get rid of all those toxins. So you need to... I just joke with my patients, like, "Yeah, no stinky brains. Get your sleep." I just did a talk for the Mayo Clinic staff. I said that they kinda... All these very brilliant, like, the smartest people in the world are kinda like, "Okay." Patients love that stuff. Academics, they don't always find it cute, but this is the truth. Wash your brain. You know, sleep hygiene, we call it sleep hygiene for a reason 'cause your brain needs its bath, but there's things we can do to improve the quality of our sleep. And really what's so important is that when you wake up, you get that first morning sunlight. Getting that first morning sunlight resets that circadian rhythm. And then, man, we need to be careful with the screen exposures, because all that blue light that's emitted, especially if you don't wear the blue blockers on your glasses-

Mel Robbins 1:06:14 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:06:14 ... it just drops and drops and drops your natural melatonin. So when you go to bed at night, you either can't fall asleep, or if you do, you can't stay asleep. And it's because of all of that blue light, especially after sundown. So aim for those seven to nine hours of sleep, and we know that's when your body is regenerating. There are studies that actually show us in people who do shift work-

Mel Robbins 1:06:34 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:06:34 ... that there's increased risk of cancers. And, e- listen, these people can't help it. That is what they, that is what they're should-

Mel Robbins 1:06:39 What is the connection between not getting good sleep and cancer risk?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:06:45 There may be a lot of things contributing to that. You know, is part of it that if you're not sleeping, are you just not as energized to do as much exercise? This is where it's hard to control for confounding variables. So what-

Mel Robbins 1:06:57 Got it.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:06:57 ... is it that's driving that? But we know that one of the main mechanisms is you're getting that restorative period in your body that is very, very critical in terms of optimal health from all health conditions.

Mel Robbins 1:07:10 So when you talk about the fact that if you get seven to eight hours of good sleep, right-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:07:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:07:14 ... and you prioritize that, that it's also when your brain is getting a bath and it's clearing out the toxins, why does that matter when it comes to preventing cancer or diseases or curing yourself of the, like, different...... health things that you're dealing with.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:07:32 You know what I think, Mel? The biggest reason why individuals who don't get enough sleep aren't as healthy as they should be, that goes right in line with that cancer discussion, is because it really disarms metabolic health. You know, so moving beyond that brain health into what else is happening in the body, we know in people that aren't getting adequate s- amount of sleep or good quality sleep, that it really is interfering with optimal metabolic health or control of blood sugar during the day.

Mel Robbins 1:08:00 So when you say metabolic health, what should I, as somebody who's not a medical doctor (laughs) with all your-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:08:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:08:07 ... experience and expertise, what should I hear in plain language?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:08:12 It's tricky, right? And again, we ta- chatted about how 93% of Americans fall in this bucket of not being metabolically healthy. I really would love if doctors checked something called a hemoglobin A1C in their patients. This is an average blood sugar level over a three-month period of time.

Mel Robbins 1:08:28 Hemoglobin A1C?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:08:29 A1C. It's a simple blood test. You know, it's tricky though, 'cause oftentimes Medicare doesn't like covering it. And-

Mel Robbins 1:08:34 Mm.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:08:34 ... you know, doctors just need to code properly and really try to get that test checked. And at the end of the day, if your doctor doesn't check it, just do the things that we're talking about, because we know those are the things that'll move you forward with being more metabolically healthy. Get the seven to nine hours of sleep. We know if you get less than that, generally we see a little bit of an insult to that metabolic optimization during the day. The blood sugar control just isn't as, isn't as optimized.

Mel Robbins 1:08:56 Well, it kinda makes sense, because if you really, if I really think about both the jaw-dropping research that you're talking about-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:09:04 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:09:05 ... but then the common sense side of this, which is in order to prevent disease, in order to prevent cancer, in order to actually cure yourself of chronic diseases or of cancer, and-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:09:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:09:18 ... make yourself healthier, you have to boost your immune system. You have to manage stress. You have to put your body in the best place it can be in order to do the job of helping you get healthy alongside what the medical interventions are. If you are getting good sleep, it means that you're putting yourself in the best position to do that.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:09:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:09:42 And if you're getting lousy sleep and you're not prioritizing it, then you're already waking up and you're at a major disadvantage-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:09:52 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:09:52 ... because your insulin's all over the place, your hormones are all over the place-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:09:56 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:09:56 ... you're stressed out 'cause you haven't slept, which impacts your immune system, which of course, just common sense tells you-

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:10:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:10:02 ... that would impact your ability to truly show up for yourself and fight the thing that you're dealing with, or prevent

Mel Robbins 1:10:10 anything worse from happening. So could you explain just, just why you keep referring to muscle being really important for your cancer patients, and muscle being something that's important for preventing cancer. What, medically speaking, is the reason why muscle is so important when it comes to preventing cancer or curing it?

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:10:32 I love that, and it's such a perfect segue, 'cause we were talking about metabolic health.

Mel Robbins 1:10:36 Okay.

Dr. Dawn Mussallem 1:10:36 You know, the muscle is what takes up the blood sugar. So when you exercise, if you eat a meal and you go for a five or 10 minute walk, those muscles are gonna take up some of that blood sugar. That's a great thing to do. You know, and so muscle is what's so critical. The fat just sits there. It doesn't do anything metabolically. But the muscle requires some maintenance, right? It needs energy. And so that's where the blood sugar's gonna go when your body takes it up, and that's what is so important and so awesome. And it's strength. You need