The Body Reset: How Women Should Eat & Exercise for Health, Fat Loss, & Energy | Dr. Stacy Sims

Mel Robbins 0:00 (instrumental music plays) It often has felt like, to me, as I've learned more and more, like, oh my God, wait a minute, we've just kinda treated women and our health almost like if you're golfing. There's the tee that's further back for the guys, and there's the tee that's a little bit, like, closer for the women, and we're just gonna treat everybody the same but shrink it a little bit.

Dr. Stacy Sims 0:19 Well, take running shoes-

Mel Robbins 0:20 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 0:20 ... or a bicycle. All they do is they make it a little bit smaller, maybe put some pink on it and say it's a woman's product. (screen swooshes) We experience things differently as women than men do, but that's not ever really explained. When we look at the trends of the fasted training, don't eat before, it's all on male data. If you look at most women who make a point to get up, do some training, go exercise, and after four weeks of following the same kinda training program as their male partner, their male partner has gotten leaner, fitter, better focus, all of the things that you want outta fitness. And the woman's like, "How come I'm fatter and tired?" (screen swooshes) We have gotten into a societal idea that we all live in the same kind of temperature. We have automatic garage door openers. We are, have created this environment where we don't move, and if we're talking about, "How do we just make one small change to improve our mental health?" that's exercise. (clock ticks)

Mel Robbins 1:18 Hey, it's your friend Mel. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am absolutely thrilled that you're here. I am on such a... I don't even know what to say it. I feel so excited about what we're talking about today. It is gonna be liberating. It is such an honor to spend time with you, to be together with you, but especially when we're gonna have a conversation that is gonna light you on fire and make you feel both mad and empowered. Let's fricking go. And if you're a new listener, I wanna take a moment and just welcome you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. And boy, have you picked a winner of a conversation to listen to. Because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I already know about you. You're the type of person who values your health. You want the facts. You want the science. You want results, and that's what you deserve. And if someone sent this to you, that's really cool because they care about you, and they want you to have the science and the facts and the correct information so that you can take better care of yourself too. I cannot wait for you and I to learn from Dr. Staci Sims today. Now, Dr. Sims is a globally recognized expert in women's health, exercise physiology, and nutrition science. She has a PhD in exercise physiology and nutrition science. She's on the faculty at Stanford, teaching about lifestyle medicine, and at Auckland University of Technology, teaching sports medicine. She is a renowned researcher and has directed research programs at Stanford, Auckland University of Technology, and the University of Waikato, and she has published, check this out, 107 peer-reviewed research papers, which in normal-person speak is a ton. Her research has revolutionized how women, mm-hmm, women approach fitness, especially during menopause and hormone changes. She's the author of two groundbreaking books, Roar and The Next Level. She also has a daughter and, just like me, is in her mid-50s, juggling a big career, a marriage, motherhood, and hormone changes. She has so much to teach you today, and we are gonna go straight for the bro science. We are going to tell you the mistakes and the lies that you've been told. We're gonna tell you the truth based on the research about what works for women and what doesn't. We're gonna teach you why the things that you've been doing have been backfiring. It's because you have been exercising like a dude, and it is time for you to exercise like a woman. I am so fired up for you to be here. I am fired up to learn with you, and I am fired up for all of the women and the young women in your life that you're gonna share this with. So please help me welcome Dr. Staci Sims to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Dr. Staci Sims, I am so thrilled that you're here in our Boston studios. I have been waiting a long time to be able to sit down, meet you, and learn from you. I'm s- just thrilled that you're here.

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:13 Oh, thanks for having me. I'm excited.

Mel Robbins 4:15 Awesome.

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:15 I'm gonna have lots of fun.

Mel Robbins 4:16 And we have a lot to dig into, and so here's where I wanna start. Could you speak directly-

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:23 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 4:23 ... to the person that's listening? And this is somebody who doesn't have a lot of time, but they made the time-

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:29 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:30 ... to be here to learn from you.

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:31 Okay.

Mel Robbins 4:32 What could that person expect might change about their life or feel different if they take everything to heart that you're about to teach us and share with us today, and they use it in their own life?

Dr. Stacy Sims 4:45 I find there's two big things that often happen. One, most women become more empowered and have better body positivity. And two, they have a sense of separation from the stress and their own selves, so they're able to take that step back from the stress of everything that's happening. It's kinda like that pause moment, 'cause when you are taking care of your body, then it feeds back into a lot of positive metrics. So, the big thing that I love is watching women go through an evolution to go from being not so confident in themselves to having such empowerment to be able to stand up and say, "I own this space, and I'm taking it."

Mel Robbins 5:28 You know, one thing that strikes me about you already is that you actually exude that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 5:37 Oh, thanks. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 5:38 You know, you have a level of presence and power in your body, and it's not just because you are in incredibly great shape in terms of muscle definition, but i- i- it's, it's actually something that's noticeable, and so I think this goes beyond sort of that sense of separation of stress. Like, what I experience in just sitting here with you is that you're actually embodied in the present and in your body.And a lot of times when we're stressed out, especially, you know, as caregivers and the amount of stuff that we do are up in our heads and disconnected from our body.

Dr. Stacy Sims 6:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:17 And so I'm excited to really learn from you because I wanna feel more like the centered confidence and calmness that you just seem to move through a space with.

Dr. Stacy Sims 6:31 I'm good with a facade. No, just kidding.

Mel Robbins 6:32 (laughs)

Dr. Stacy Sims 6:33 Thanks. Um, yeah, it does come from a lot of pushback I've had in my life, so it's like putting... being put into a pretty male dominant situation, you have to find your feet and how do you move through that space, and I found it through exercise, strength, all the stuff that we're gonna talk about.

Mel Robbins 6:54 Amazing. So you have such an incredible background and I'm actually gonna read it because it's quite a bit. You know, I've talked about this in... when I was introducing you, but you have a PhD in exercise physiology, you're a researcher, you're a former professional athlete, you now train professional athletes, you're an expert in exercise physiology, you have a long list of other specialties like cardiovascular disease prevention, thermoregulation, women's health, you are a pioneering researcher that participates in her own studies, and you have this incredible mantra, Dr. Simms, "Women are not small men."

Dr. Stacy Sims 7:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 7:36 What does that mean?

Dr. Stacy Sims 7:38 (laughs) Yeah. Um, I laugh when people say, "Women are not small men," because when we hear it, we're like, "Oh, yeah, it's right." But it started from when I was teaching at Stanford and wanted to wake some of the undergrads up after, you know, lunch and afternoon sleepies come in and I was teaching about sex differences in training or high performance, so, uh, we'd started with women are not small men. And people are like, "Well, of course not." Like, that's... You know, women aren't small men. But what I mean by that is everything from what happens in utero until we die is different for women than men. So when we talk about women are not small men and we see all the guidelines that are out there for exercise, all the guidelines out there for mental health, for the connections, the sociocultural pressures, we experience things differently as women than men do, but that's not ever really explained. So when we say women are not small men, it makes people take that pause and ask, "Well, what do you mean by that? What topic?" So today, what I mean by women are not small men is we're gonna dive in to exercise, especially how what we do should change as we move through our lives.

Mel Robbins 8:47 What does that motto women are not small men mean in practice?

Dr. Stacy Sims 8:55 I think when we look right now at what's being portrayed in social media, fitness trends, the medical trends-

Mel Robbins 9:02 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 9:03 ... all of that data is really drawn from men and just generalized to women, which is a huge disservice. So I want women, especially you as a listener on this podcast, to take a pause whenever you see a new trend come up or someone pushing something to just go, "Well, where did this originate? How does that appropriate for me as a woman in my phase of life?" And when you take that pause, you begin to have an objection to some of the things that are being pushed on you and a... and an objective view of how you should approach things to make it beneficial for you.

Mel Robbins 9:39 I am so glad that we're starting here because, um, I am constantly shocked at the things that I think I should be doing and the things that I hear a lot of male health experts talking about are a lot of the bro science-

Dr. Stacy Sims 9:56 Oh, yes.

Mel Robbins 9:56 ... or a lot of the kind of bro experts and the fitness trends that are very dude oriented. No offense to the guys. I'm just saying that it often has felt like, to me, as I've learned more and more, like, oh my god, wait a minute, we've just kinda treated women and our health almost like if you're golfing. There's the tee that's further back for the guys and there's the tee that's a little bit, like, closer for the women, and we're just gonna treat everybody the same, but shrink it a little bit.

Dr. Stacy Sims 10:24 Yep. Shrink and pink is what we called it in the industry.

Mel Robbins 10:26 Shrink and pink? Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 10:27 Shrink and pink. So, uh, we'll take running shoes-

Mel Robbins 10:30 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 10:30 ... or a bicycle, all they do is they make it a little bit smaller, maybe put some pink on it and say it's a woman's product.

Mel Robbins 10:36 It's so true.

Dr. Stacy Sims 10:37 I know. And it's like, wait, that's not really appropriate. You'll see in my book there's some pink and that's an ode to shrink and pink because that's what people think is honoring women by making it a little bit smaller and let's bling it up with some color and we're gonna call it a woman's product, and that is not appropriate.

Mel Robbins 10:57 Well, the other thing that I think has been, like, really fascinating, we're gonna get into this, is just that a lot of the research has only been done on men-

Dr. Stacy Sims 11:06 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 11:06 ... and there hasn't been research on how certain things have an impact on women and our hormones and our body structure and our composition, which is, as you've already said, fundamentally different than that of somebody who's male.

Dr. Stacy Sims 11:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 11:21 And so I'm excited for you to take us step by step by step and help us kind of tee up all the assumptions that we've all just kind of come to assume that work for men, but don't work for women and what we need to know and need to be doing to actually work with our bodies and take better care of ourselves.

Dr. Stacy Sims 11:42 Perfect.

Mel Robbins 11:42 So what's the most common mistake that women make by following male-centric fitness advice?

Dr. Stacy Sims 11:51 Uh, they don't get any results and they end up what we call tired but wired. I mean, if you look at most women who make a point to get up, do some training, go exercise, and it happens so often after four weeks of following the same kind of training program as their male partner, their male partner's gotten leaner, fitter, better, um, cognition-... you know, focus all of the things that you want out of fitness, and the woman's like, "How come I'm fatter and tired and I don't have any, like, increase in my fitness like my partner does?" And I see it all the time and I'm always explaining, "Well one, your partner might get up and go faceted training. Women's bodies don't respond well to faceted training."

Mel Robbins 12:33 What's faceted training? I don't even know what the heck this is. Like, what is faceted training?

Dr. Stacy Sims 12:36 (laughs) Yeah. Faceted training means you're not having any food before you go do exercise.

Mel Robbins 12:39 Oh, so like... Well, that's what I would always do.

Dr. Stacy Sims 12:41 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:41 Like, I would always... Literally, like I'm gonna eat after-

Dr. Stacy Sims 12:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 12:45 ... because my husband would eat after-

Dr. Stacy Sims 12:46 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 12:47 ... and then we would g- I... My mouth is on the floor, you can see this on YouTube, but, like, as you're listening, I- I'm, I'm processing this because I'm thinking how often I've been pissed off at Chris, my husband-

Dr. Stacy Sims 12:58 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:58 ... because we will take on some challenge together and I'm like, "This is not fair."

Dr. Stacy Sims 13:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:03 Like, "How is it that this is actually making you lose weight and I feel like I'm puffier and fluffier and tired and pissed off?"

Dr. Stacy Sims 13:09 Yep.

Mel Robbins 13:10 And I'm following the same steps, I'm doing the intermittent fasting, I'm not eating beforehand, I'm slamming the thing after, I'm doing... And I'm like, "What the hell is going on?" And i- this is because he's male and I'm female.

Dr. Stacy Sims 13:22 Yep, exactly. And it comes really to the brain, right? So when we start looking just at first thing you get up and our responses are different, where women's brains will start going, "Okay, where's the food to come in to help bring my stress hormones down and get me started for the day?"

Mel Robbins 13:40 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 13:41 And men, by the nature of being XY, their brain's like, "Eh, okay. I'm gonna supply some amino acids and some blood sugar and let's get on with the day, then we'll find some food, that's fine." But women's brain, specifically what we call the hypothalamus, that is really sensitive to blood sugar and food coming in. So if you get up and you start your, your exercise without any food, the hypothalamus is like, "Wait a second, this is a stress to the body that I need to really try to figure out. But if I don't have food to counter the fuel that the muscles are needing from a contraction, I need to find a way to supply that fuel." So it goes into a little bit of a tizzy, and one of the first things that starts to get broken down is your muscle mass, 'cause muscle is a pretty active tissue. And the hypothalamus is like, "Well, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to supply the food that this muscle needs if I don't have any food coming in." So it's a very small amount of food that a woman needs first thing in the morning to then go be successful in her training, and it's even if you're going for a walk. A lot of women will get up and go for a walk on the auspice of-

Mel Robbins 14:53 Are you with me? Like, I, l- are you in my house with me?

Dr. Stacy Sims 14:56 Maybe.

Mel Robbins 14:56 E, Stacey, I'm, I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I think a lifetime of messaging about, like, thin is preferable-

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:04 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:05 ... and that I wanna maximize calories burned-

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:09 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 15:10 ... so I'm gonna get up and I'm gonna have a cup of coffee because I'm tired and I'm gonna wire myself-

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:16 Yep.

Mel Robbins 15:16 ... and then I, you know, back in the day would be going for a run or going to some sort of, like, fitness class. Uh, you know, I'm old enough to have been doing step aerobics and everything else-

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:26 Right there with ya. Woop woop!

Mel Robbins 15:27 Yeah. Le- let's go. Um, and now... And, and I've just carried that over.

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 15:33 And I also then tell myself a story that I'm gonna get a cramp or I'm gonna, like, wanna throw up in my mouth if I'm doing something too much and I've had too much to eat. And so, this is a completely different change for me.

Dr. Stacy Sims 15:47 Yeah. And it's one that's gonna be really super beneficial.

Mel Robbins 15:51 So every woman listening and every woman in your life if you're listening and you're male needs to know that one of the biggest mistakes that we're making by following male-centric fitness advice is y- we need, as women, biologically and physiologically speaking, to actually have something to eat first thing when we get up?

Dr. Stacy Sims 16:12 Yes. Yes. And when we start looking at it, I've, I did a competition a couple of weekends ago just for fun, and I had so many women come up and go, "The first thing that you did to change my life was to tell me to eat beforehand, and now, like, my training's better, my outcomes are better, I have more energy." And I'm like, "Well, of course, 'cause your brain is like, 'I can handle this stress.'" So if you are supplying fuel to the empty tank, of course you're gonna go far. If you think about trying to drive a car and rev it up and get it on the highway to at speed with it on E, it's not gonna get very far. So I try to explain to women, if you're gonna get up, and even if you're going for a walk, like, you wanna maximize what you're doing, you want your metabolism to fire on all cylinders, you wanna get some aerobic fitness through that, you need to supply just a little bit of fuel. And it doesn't mean a full meal, it could be the protein coffee, it could be a couple of tablespoons of yogurt, half a banana. It's not a lot but it's enough to bring your blood sugar up and tell your brain, "Yeah, I h- I've got this. I've got this."

Mel Robbins 17:19 So the first change already, small change, but critical one for our biology and physiology is you need to eat something before you move or exercise in the morning-

Dr. Stacy Sims 17:30 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:31 ... and to also... I think, like, the bigger thing here for me is that I'm starting to realize I've been so brainwashed about the fact that you need to be thin-

Dr. Stacy Sims 17:39 Yes.

Mel Robbins 17:40 ... that it's a paradigm shift to actually think, "Well, wait a minute, I need to learn how to work with my body and my natural wiring to make it work for me-

Dr. Stacy Sims 17:54 Right.

Mel Robbins 17:54 ... and to actually optimize the way that my body's designed as a woman."

Dr. Stacy Sims 18:00 Right. And one of the things that, um, has come up recently in conversations where, uh, some women who've just started into strength training realm or have dropped all of their, you know, big cardio walking, 'cause we all come from the 80s and 90s of let's do 90 minutes of aerobics and, and that's not appropriate, so they've gotten out of that mentality, but...They'll see other women at the gym who are on the elliptical or treadmill or out running-

Mel Robbins 18:27 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 18:27 ... and they look really lean.

Mel Robbins 18:28 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 18:28 And they're like, "Well, I don't understand. I kind of wanna look like that, but I know that I need to be doing strength training, so I'm confused." The women that are 40 plus who are doing the cardio, so for the most part, they're gonna be what we call skinny fat. So that means that they're not gonna have a lot of quality muscle. There's gonna be a lot of- of fatty tissue within the muscle and their bones are gonna be like chalk. Because if we are doing all that cardio work and we're not looking at how our bodies are aging and what we need, we need the food before the training, we need to put in some strength training, then we're going to continuously be breaking down the tissue that we want to keep to age well.

Mel Robbins 19:09 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 19:10 So when we're talking about that mentality of, "Well, what do I do?" It's like these small steps of, yeah, let's have some food before. Let's look at how we are dosing our exercise. What's ki- kinds of intensities? Let's bring in some strength training 'cause all of those are gonna feed forward to having our lean mass, having really strong bones, having really good neuroplasticity, so that means how your brain changes in a positive way. So as we age, we don't get dementia. So these are all the things that I would rather women focus on than the drive from the '90s to be Kate Moss thin.

Mel Robbins 19:46 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 19:46 Because on the outside, that drive to be super thin is killing us on the inside.

Mel Robbins 19:53 Wow. You- you mentioned protein coffee.

Dr. Stacy Sims 19:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:56 Can you explain what that is and how that might satisfy the first takeaway, which is eat before you move in the morning?

Dr. Stacy Sims 20:02 Yeah. So a lot of women don't have an appetite first thing in the morning.

Mel Robbins 20:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 20:06 I'm one of those, but I know that I need fuel. So I'm very much a espresso addict. I love it. And one of the simple things that I do is I make a double espresso at night and I mix some protein powder into my almond milk or whatever milk you want, and then I put the hot coffee in there and I put it in the fridge overnight, and then it's my go-to first thing in the morning, where then I'm getting my 30 grams of protein, I'm getting my caffeine, it tastes like a latte, I'm good to go. And so that's the first hit. It's the first eating opportunity to bring in some of that protein that we need. And if you're gonna go do any kind of exercise knowing that exercise mutes your appetite, then it also helps with that recovery part because you're gonna have those amino acids circulating. Your brain's gonna say, "Hey, yeah, okay, I've got stuff to rebuild tissue." So it's a really good way of being able to have what you need without feeling overfull and still enjoying some of the good things of life, like coffee.

Mel Robbins 21:07 Well, you've changed my life already-

Dr. Stacy Sims 21:09 Yay!

Mel Robbins 21:10 ... because I've got two takeaways. The first one is... And I still wanna stay on it so I actually understand why eating first thing before I move my body and having fuel first thing in the morning is actually super important. And I wanna unpack that a little bit more, but I wanna hover on the protein coffee because I'm drinking it right now. Mm. You made me one in our studios here in Boston. This is gonna change my life and here's why. I have struggled forever since I've learned, and a lot of us are learning as women, that focusing on more protein and especially getting protein first thing in the morning is super important. And I'm always struggling with how the hell am I gonna get 30 grams of protein first thing in the morning without choking down 10 egg whites?

Dr. Stacy Sims 21:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 21:56 And what do I do if I'm on the go? And what do I do if I'm tired of eggs?

Dr. Stacy Sims 22:00 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 22:00 And what do I do if I don't have a blender near me and my stuff? What do I... Like, and so you literally took a scoop of protein, shoved it in milk, put in espresso, stirred it up and put on ice. It tastes like a freaking milkshake. And what I love about this is that, A, I can make it the night before, B, it's 30 grams of protein in a cup, which, C, means I could even take this on the walk with me. I could take this in the car if I'm dropping my kids off somewhere. I could make this on the road.

Dr. Stacy Sims 22:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 22:30 Like, this is such an incredible tip. So thank you for that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 22:34 You're welcome.

Mel Robbins 22:35 And what I wanna do though, Dr. Tsim, is you mentioned that when women wake up, our brains are different than the guys and our stress levels are higher, and it is important to understand that and to give yourself a little bit of fuel.

Dr. Stacy Sims 22:52 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 22:53 What happens in your body if you do start eating breakfast in the morning or you... 'Cause a lot of women skip it. A lot of women are now intermittent fasting. A lot of people are waiting until noon. A lot of people don't wanna eat before they exercise because they don't want cramps or they, like, actually wanna maximize calorie burn, but what is the benefit to a woman in particular first thing in the morning if you give yourself fuel?

Dr. Stacy Sims 23:18 There's a few things to unpack there.

Mel Robbins 23:19 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 23:20 So first, we look at eating opportunities because there's so many women who are, one, trying to lose weight, or two, already in the fitness space and following some of the trends that don't eat enough.

Mel Robbins 23:33 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 23:33 So if you aren't eating enough, you're not gonna actually change your body composition. So we look at eating opportunities. First thing in the morning, 30 grams of protein, boom. That's an eating opportunity that you're not really feeling overly full, but it's such a great benefit to the body and you're head of the game by having 30 grams of protein. We also look at some of the newer research that's coming out about our circadian rhythms or how our body goes through 24-hour cycle. And for people who break their fast by around 8:00 AM and then they don't eat after 6:00 PM have all these great metabolic outcomes that you would expect from, quote, "intermittent fasting." But we see that people who hold a fast till noon or after don't get any of that benefit. So if we look, well, why? Why is that? We have to understand that...A half an hour after a woman wakes up, we have a spike in cortisol. That's our stress hormone. If we don't have food to tell the brain to drop that, then we stay in this heightened stress state. And what cortisol is responsible for is that fight or flight, but also providing fuel for being able to fight or flight. So the first thing that goes is we start chewing into our lean mass, which is bone and muscle.

Mel Robbins 24:51 Hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 24:51 And a signal to keep our body fat, especially as we start to get older.

Mel Robbins 24:56 Wait a minute. So not eating, and not eating because you think it's gonna help you lose weight, actually ...

Dr. Stacy Sims 25:03 Counterproductive.

Mel Robbins 25:04 Is counterproductive-

Dr. Stacy Sims 25:05 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 25:05 ... because it's signaling your body to stay in fight or flight, which makes your body hold onto fat?

Dr. Stacy Sims 25:09 Yes.

Mel Robbins 25:10 Are you kidding me?

Dr. Stacy Sims 25:11 No. I mean, when we look at the trends of the fasted training, don't eat before, it's all male data. And the difference between men and women in this situation is, again, it comes down to the brain. So a man can get by with the fasted training because when we're looking at getting up and holding a fast or going training without food, for a man's body, it stimulates the little molecular structures in the muscles to use more fat, because their muscle structure and the types of fibers that they have are different than women's. So men have what we call more glycolytic or fibers that use glucose, and not as many oxidative or the fibers that use fat as a fuel. Women, we're born with more of those oxidative, fat-burning fibers. So when we go and we don't provide fuel, the body's like, "I'm gonna store fat because I'm gonna need it," because that's the preferred fuel for your muscles. So men's bodies will start to adapt to be able to use more fat, which is why you see fasting and holding a fast working so well in men. But for women, it doesn't do the same, because we have different feedback mechanisms from the brain, we have different muscle requirements 'cause we have different morphology, we call, or different muscle fiber types. So this is where, you know, we start looking at all the stuff that we've been trained to do over the decades and how counterproductive and harmful it can be for women who are trying to improve body composition and bone.

Mel Robbins 26:48 Wow. Now does eating first thing in the morning, because you mentioned the circadian rhythm-

Dr. Stacy Sims 26:53 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:53 ... for a woman also help you sleep better at night?

Dr. Stacy Sims 26:55 Absolutely.

Mel Robbins 26:56 How come?

Dr. Stacy Sims 26:57 Because if we're looking at decreasing our overall stress response, so that cortisol, bringing the cortisol down, over the course of time, you're gonna have a lower baseline of that cortisol. If you have a lower baseline of cortisol, then your body can get into what we call parasympathetic. So that's what you need to sleep. If you have this high elevation of cortisol all the time, we're always sympathetically wired, so we can't get into deep reparative sleep. So you see a lot of awakenings. The other thing that happens, when women front load their food, so we have a lot of, of our calories in the day-

Mel Robbins 27:31 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 27:31 ... which we should-

Mel Robbins 27:31 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 27:32 ... then when we go to sleep, we aren't waking up with hypoglycemia. So that means we're not waking up with low blood sugar. 'Cause a lot of women who undereat or hold a fast and they aren't eating enough, their awakenings at night is due to low blood sugar.

Mel Robbins 27:49 I thought it was 'cause I had to pee.

Dr. Stacy Sims 27:50 No.

Mel Robbins 27:50 It's also because of the low blood sugar?

Dr. Stacy Sims 27:52 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:53 Doctor, where the hell have you been? Like I, I needed you in my life, like, decades ago.

Dr. Stacy Sims 27:58 I needed me then, too.

Mel Robbins 27:59 (laughs) I-

Dr. Stacy Sims 28:00 And it's taken me this long to be able to acquire all the knowledge and the research. So now I'm hoping that we can hit all of the listeners and so that they will learn what we should've known decades ago.

Mel Robbins 28:12 This is so eye-opening. Like already you have highlighted so many differences between men and women just in the morning, just in the stress levels, just in the fuel that we need in the morning, in the muscle composition, like all of it. And it also is very illuminating because it makes a lot of sense then as to why the programs that work for Chris and seem to work like magic actually leave me frustrated and

Mel Robbins 28:41 tired.

Dr. Stacy Sims 28:41 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 28:42 So what would be the ideal breakfast for anyone, whether, like, and let's just talk about the person who just wants to move more, they wanna take better care of their body, they wanna understand how their body works so that you're getting better results and you're feeling better in your life. So what would breakfast look like just on an average morning if, you know, for anybody?

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:06 Yeah, that ...

Mel Robbins 29:06 (clears throat)

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:07 I will say that it's a hard one because people have different food preferences. How about an avatar?

Mel Robbins 29:11 What's an avatar?

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:12 A, a makeup person.

Mel Robbins 29:14 Okay, a makeup person.

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:15 Makeup person. So we'll say there's a woman who is plant-based but not vegetarian.

Mel Robbins 29:20 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:20 You know, so she has a preference for plants. Three kids, you know, super busy, wakes up, has been waking up tired but wired, didn't sleep well, was like, "Okay, I need to make this change." Never hungry in the morning. So we can split her breakfast. It could be overnight oats, which is chia seeds, oatmeal, some, um, milk or, or oat milk to soak it.

Mel Robbins 29:41 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:41 Then when she gets up, she's like, "I'm gonna split that in half. The first half I'm gonna add some berries and maybe another tablespoon of Greek yogurt 'cause then I'm gonna get some protein, some carbohydrate, some fiber, and it's gonna calm me down. It's gonna tell my brain, 'Yep, ready to go.'"

Mel Robbins 29:57 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 29:57 Then you either are going out for your walk. I mean, maybe you're gonna do some home strength training. Maybe you're meeting a friend for a session. Maybe you're taking 15 minutes of just (exhales) breath work to, to bring yourself down, especially if you're the avatar of three kids and a busy life-

Mel Robbins 30:16 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 30:16 ... just taking that moment to put yourself first.

Mel Robbins 30:18 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 30:19 And then when you get back, maybe it's an hour, hour and a half later, you have the second half. The second half of those overnight oats with a few more tablespoons of Greek yogurt and some nuts and berries 'cause then you're getting the protein, carbohydrate. So you've actually split your breakfast, but you've given your body the benefit of food on different eating opportunities without being overfull. But at the end, you end up with 30 grams of protein over the course of a couple of hours.So it's easy, you can mix it up, do it the night before. You know that, "I'm not that hungry, but if I have a little bit..." And then over the course of a couple of weeks, you're gonna find that you're gonna wake up going, "Yeah, I need some food." And this is kind of a reset of your circadian rhythm. Your body is starting to fall in line. Your hypothalamus is understanding. Your appetite hormones are starting to work properly. And when all of that feeds forward, then you're gonna start to see changes in body composition because you're having better sleep, 'cause we can't change anything if our sleep is p-perturbed. So the more we focus on how are we going to work with our body's natural rhythms and the way that our hormones work, the more it feeds into better parasympathetic drive for better sleep.

Mel Robbins 31:32 I have just so screwed this up. Like I literally wake up, I delay the coffee, I exercise on an empty stomach. I then have my coffee, which I'm then drinking on an empty stomach-

Dr. Stacy Sims 31:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 31:43 ... which means I've now maximized stressing myself out, and then I'm slamming something that has 30, 45 grams of protein after I work out. And so what have you done if you are the kind of person like I am that you've bought into all the BS and you've basically been starving yourself in the morning? And even if you get out for a walk, how are you kind of actually not only not getting the benefit, but you're making it worse? What's happening in, like, the person's body when you do not feed yourself first thing in the morning as a woman?

Dr. Stacy Sims 32:18 Yeah, I always bring it down to, what are we doing when we, when we want to exercise, right? We're looking for better blood glucose control. We're looking for better bone. We're looking for better muscle. If you're not eating, then you are not going to get better at any of that stuff, because the body, again, is like, "I need fuel for the stress that's occurring, and I need fuel for the exercise."

Mel Robbins 32:42 So if you've been brainwashed like I am-

Dr. Stacy Sims 32:44 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 32:44 ... and you're exercising because you are trying to, like, lose weight or you're trying to look thin-

Dr. Stacy Sims 32:50 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 32:52 ... what is happening if I continue to go down that route where I don't eat before I exercise and I'm basically starving myself and I'm going for my walk and I'm delaying food?

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:03 You lose muscle. And then the other thing, when we look at women who are late 30s, early 40s onwards-

Mel Robbins 33:09 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:10 ... we get a signal to put on more visceral fat. So that's that deep belly fat that, that's metabolically active that can be dangerous. So I'll see women who are at, you know, doing the same pursuit and really proud of the fact that they're intermittent fasting-

Mel Robbins 33:24 (clears throat)

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:24 ... they're not breaking their fast till noon, they've had their coffee to hold them through, and you do a DEXA and-

Mel Robbins 33:30 What's a, what's a DEXA?

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:31 A DEXA is when you go and you get a complete body scan. So it looks at your muscle, it looks at fat, where fat's put, it looks at-

Mel Robbins 33:39 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:39 ... how dense your bones are.

Mel Robbins 33:40 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 33:41 So we see their DEXA results, and on the outside they look healthy, right? But on the inside, it's a bit of a scary story, where we see low bone density, we see an increase of fat accumulating in the belly area, which means that it's more what we call metabolically active. So you'll see a change in your, um, cholesterol. So you have more of the, quote, "bad" cholesterol that's elevated. You have more inflammatory markers, which is a predisposition for diabetes. We see insulin resistance. So I know that there are listeners and maybe, you know, you're thinking about, "Well, I've been doing this forever and I don't have any bad blood markers. What's going on?" I didn't say that it necessarily comes out. That's the worst case scenario. But when we look at what's happening on the inside, I don't want your bones to be like chalk, and I don't want you not to have muscle to be able to get up and run after your grandkids or carry your groceries into your house. So if we just make that small change by having some food first thing and then carrying on with your day, you're going to get the impetus to build muscle. You're gonna get the impetus to keep your bone, and you're going to be able to reduce the signaling for that deep belly fat. And it's all those health... Like, I understand it 'cause I've been there.

Mel Robbins 34:58 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 34:59 I grew up in that same 1980s, 1990s, and I still get it in my head sometimes. Like, "Well, is this the right thing?" And I'm, I've done the research. I've been in the lab. I've implemented it. So it is really difficult to get your head around.

Mel Robbins 35:14 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 35:14 But you have to look at the long term. It's like, where do you wanna be in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years from now?

Mel Robbins 35:19 Well, and I also think it's just, like, if you actually are working out not only to take care of yourself but because you do want to change the composition of your body, you do want to be a little leaner, you do want to be stronger-

Dr. Stacy Sims 35:31 Mm.

Mel Robbins 35:31 ... that focusing on the actual science, and this is like a complete turnaround for me, that you need to actually eat more-

Dr. Stacy Sims 35:41 Yes.

Mel Robbins 35:42 ... in order to lose-

Dr. Stacy Sims 35:43 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 35:43 ... which is the exact opposite of the brainwashing that all women and girls have f- have received for their entire life.

Dr. Stacy Sims 35:50 Right.

Mel Robbins 35:51 And so it's so helpful to hear you talk about the science, and it makes so much sense because I think we've all had that experience in our life where, like, "I am trying and this isn't working."

Dr. Stacy Sims 36:04 Right.

Mel Robbins 36:05 And the first mistake that I've been making for now 56 years, I'm understanding, is literally not eating before I exercise.

Dr. Stacy Sims 36:13 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 36:13 And, you know, one thing I wanna ask is, does this work for everyone? You know, I got this listener question, 'cause when people found out that you were coming, oh my god, it was like our website crashed.

Dr. Stacy Sims 36:24 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 36:24 Ruby wrote in, "Why do some people have natural muscle tone and some of us can eat right, work out, and we are still flabby and not toned?"

Dr. Stacy Sims 36:36 There are lots of things on this, and I wish that Ruby was in this room 'cause then I could say, "Well, let's look at, um, your morphology. So your body type." So there are some women who have, uh...... better predisposition for building muscle, and we call those mesomorphic. And then we have other women who struggle r- really hard to put m- m- muscle mass on, and they tend to be a little bit flabbier, and that is more of our endomorphic. And then we have in the middle, the ectomorphic that are the super skinny Kate Moss, and-

Mel Robbins 37:06 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 37:06 ... most of the time, people are a mix of that.

Mel Robbins 37:08 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 37:09 So when you look at those different muscle types, and you're looking at doing all the work and not getting any benefit, I wanna see what kind of training you're doing. Because if we are looking at when you're eating and how you're complementing your exercise, then we can make gains. And every woman's a little bit different. Like my sister, she isn't so into athletics and stuff that I am. We grew up in the same household, but I was always out building tree forts, and she was in, reading books.

Mel Robbins 37:38 Uh-huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 37:39 But over the past year, she's really put herself into getting stronger and strength training. Body composition's changing. Her grip strength is stronger. And she's like, "I never really thought that lifting weights would help me change my body composition." I was like, "Why have you not thought of that?" Like, if you're lifting under load, you build muscle. She's like, "But then that's weight on the scale, and I was always afraid of the weight on the scale, not the outcome of looking better."

Mel Robbins 38:07 Right, and then we also, because we've been so gaslit to think that it's about being so thin-

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:12 Right.

Mel Robbins 38:12 ... that, and that's what's desirable, that you hear, "Build muscle," and you're like, "But I don't wanna bulk up. I'm actually trying to lean down."

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 38:20 And what you're saying is, "No, no, no, this is actually like putting on your own Spanx with your muscles."

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:25 Right.

Mel Robbins 38:26 It tightens you up.

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:27 Right. And I will say, like, I sit here, and I know people always comment about my arms (laughs) and-

Mel Robbins 38:34 It takes a lot of work to get arms like that, I would think.

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:36 Yeah, but the other thing is I-

Mel Robbins 38:38 I think they're amazing arms.

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:39 Thanks. I-

Mel Robbins 38:41 I'm wearing a long-sleeve shirt for a reason.

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:43 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 38:44 (laughs) If I had your arms, I'd be wearing a tank top too.

Dr. Stacy Sims 38:47 I would love it if all of this would go lower body. Like, I have tried for years to get really strong hamstrings and really strong glutes. They're strong, but they're not bulky. It's just mesomorphic up here, ectomorphic down. So it's-

Mel Robbins 39:02 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 39:02 ... the difference in the combination. Um, but I went through a time where I was really upset with the fact that I had more muscle. Like when I was bike racing, I tried really, really hard to lose it, but I couldn't because my body's like, "No, this is how you are born." So women who are like, "I'm really trying to build muscle," it doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna get bulky. If you don't have a genetic predisposition for putting muscle on really, really easily, it's really hard to get bulky. And for most women who are trying to put muscle on, not eating or doing lots of cardio work, you're not gonna put muscle on. It's really hard to get bulky.

Mel Robbins 39:46 So what do you want everyone to know about exercise as opposed to diet?

Dr. Stacy Sims 39:51 Ah, so when we look at all the diet trends that are out there, right? We see the plant-based, the carnivorous, the keto, the intermittent fasting, all of the things, they are born out of a want for better health, body composition, better gut, all of those things. But if you exercise, then you get all of those things, and you-

Mel Robbins 40:15 Wait a minute. Say that again.

Dr. Stacy Sims 40:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 40:17 Okay, so hold on a second. So all of those diets are designed to try to create a health outcome-

Dr. Stacy Sims 40:25 (clears throat) Yes.

Mel Robbins 40:25 ... through eating.

Dr. Stacy Sims 40:26 Yes.

Mel Robbins 40:27 But if you exercise, the exercise provides the health outcome?

Dr. Stacy Sims 40:33 Yes. Because if we look at exercise as a stress, like we have gotten into a societal idea that we all live in the same kind of temperature. We have automatic garage door openers. We have the internet. We have our computers, even driverless cars. So we are-

Mel Robbins 40:51 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 40:51 ... created this environment where we don't move. The outcome of having a environment where we don't move and we don't have a lot of green space or opportunities to even walk places, is now we have this obesity epidemic. And even if you're not facing obesity, you're facing some overweightness, and you're being bombarded by all these diet styles, if we were just to put a pause on the diet style and just take a step back and say, "You know what? If I go back to eating normally, which means that I'm eating breakfast-"

Mel Robbins 41:23 Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. (laughs)

Dr. Stacy Sims 41:25 "... lunch, dinner, and I'm not eating snacks after dinner, and I'm kinda paying attention to kinda food that I'm eating so it's nutrient-dense..." It's not all these ultra-processed things. There's no protein Pop-Tarts 'cause it says protein on it.

Mel Robbins 41:36 You know what I call this, Dr. Sims? The grandparent diet.

Dr. Stacy Sims 41:39 Yes, okay.

Mel Robbins 41:40 Basically-

Dr. Stacy Sims 41:40 Thank you.

Mel Robbins 41:40 ... how your grandparents lived.

Dr. Stacy Sims 41:42 Yeah, right, exactly. And then you put in some exercise. Because exercise is a stress, the body's very adaptable to stress. So if we're looking at doing a longer, harder walk up a hill, after a couple of weeks of doing that, it's gonna be easy 'cause your body's adapted to that stress.

Mel Robbins 42:01 Oh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:02 We call it getting fitter, but-

Mel Robbins 42:03 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:03 ... actually, your body has adapted all of its mechanisms to that stress. So if we're looking at, "How do I get a better..."

Mel Robbins 42:11 Okay, so hold on a second. So I just had this, like, epiphany.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:14 Okay.

Mel Robbins 42:15 Y- y- I can't believe how many bombs you're dropping today. Like I'd- I- I- I've never thought about exercise that way.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:23 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:23 'Cause I've focused on, you have to exercise to get in better shape. What you're saying is exercise is intentionally moving and stressing your body in a way that it needs and is designed to do.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:37 And in response to the stress, your body gets stronger at being able to manage stress.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:45 Exactly.

Mel Robbins 42:46 Oh my God.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:47 It's a stress resilience. Like, people-

Mel Robbins 42:49 And the reason why we're so flabby and everything else is 'cause we're sitting around and not moving and not stressing our bodies in the way that we need to.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:55 Right.

Mel Robbins 42:56 And that only makes us more stressed out.

Dr. Stacy Sims 42:57 Right.So we look at stress, mental health, all of the things that are really plaguing everyone-

Mel Robbins 43:04 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 43:04 ... and the part of it is lack of community, lack of empathy, all of these things that breed depression, mental health, and the fact that we aren't moving our bodies. There's so much research out there that says if you go for a walk, you're- b- you are reducing stress. If you go for a walk and you actually go to a green space, so that's to a park, and you're in nature, it induces an incredible parasympathetic response, which means that you reduce stress. But because we are so ingrained to doing all the things all the time inside, sitting, and not actually getting outside, having the fresh air, having that connection with being outside and moving our bodies, we are, by design now, a global, a very stressed out, unempathetic, depressed people. And if we're talking about, how do we just make one small change to improve our mental health? That's exercise. I'm not necessarily here as an exercise physiologist to tell you, the listener, to go out and go for a long, hard walk because you want better body composition. I'm here as an exercise physiologist to explain what exercise is. It is an incredible positive stress on the body that creates changes from central nervous system down to the smallest little thing in your cell to improve your overall stress resilience and metabolism, meaning how your body handles food, how your brain reacts to stress, how your brain perceives an environment, and, you know, just the moving part really does help bring center and bring yourself back to you.

Mel Robbins 44:51 I believe it, and I wanna see if I can just use an example to try to really paint the picture of what you're teaching us right now, which is an entirely different way to think about the importance of movement and exercise, strength training, whatever it is that you're gonna do.

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:09 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 45:11 When you go for a walk, and let's say you go for a walk and you were mentioning you go for a walk and there's a hill in your neighborhood, and when you have to go up the hill, we've all experienced this, you get shortness of breath. You gotta be using your legs a little bit more to go up the incline.

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:28 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 45:28 Might get a little winded, a little sweaty.

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:30 Yep.

Mel Robbins 45:31 Even if you got a dog on a leash pulling you up the hill-

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:33 Yep.

Mel Robbins 45:33 ... like, you're going. And that is you, by exercising your body, putting yourself in a stressful situation.

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:43 Yes.

Mel Robbins 45:43 Right? Because it's requiring your body to exert effort and to move against that incline, and it's designed to do that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 45:54 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 45:54 And if you keep doing that over time, what you're actually doing, in addition to all the positive things that happen, is you're training your body on how to be strong in situations that are stressful.

Dr. Stacy Sims 46:07 Right.

Mel Robbins 46:08 So the more that you walk and the more that you build muscle and the more that you take the advice that you're about to give us about what we should specifically be doing as women, fast-forward six months from now if you keep doing that and you're sitting in a stressful meeting at work. The impact of that outside stress on you is gonna be way less because you, in your life, have been strengthening your body by going to the gym and going for a walk so that your body can actually be in stressful situations and not get hijacked.

Dr. Stacy Sims 46:41 Exactly. So the whole flight or fight response that people talk about-

Mel Robbins 46:44 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 46:45 ... with cortisol, we're flighting. We're teaching our body that flight by exercising, and your body's like, "This is a stress. I need to understand it, overcome it, get stronger."

Mel Robbins 46:54 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 46:55 You could also think about it as the fight response too 'cause if you're in the gym and you're building the muscle and you're ready to go, coiled up, ready to go, your body's learning that stress 'cause it's- we're not an algorithm. We adapt to so many different things. So if we put our body into an uncomfortable or a challenged situation, it doesn't like it, so it learns how to overcome that and get stronger in the process. So when I, you know, as you're explaining, it's like, yes, it's all about stress resilience.

Mel Robbins 47:26 Huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 47:26 If we're resilient to stress in a meeting, our immune system is also really resilient to stuff that's going around, and we're also resilient enough to maintain a focus if we're getting ready to lose it and our kid goes off. Like, we're not gonna break down and start yelling at our partner or our kid because we have this stress resilience. We're able to take that pause.

Mel Robbins 47:47 It makes so much sense. And, you know, you've talked a lot about strength training.

Mel Robbins 47:51 Why is strength training so important for women in particular?

Dr. Stacy Sims 47:56 Yeah, I wish I had known about strength training way back when. Like, I was introduced to it when I was 16 because my friend's brother was a bodybuilder. And I was like, "Oh, okay, I'll go 'cause Michelle, you're going, I'll go with you."

Mel Robbins 48:09 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 48:10 But I didn't really realize what that meant. So when we talk about the science of strength training right now, we know that with age, we lose muscle really quickly, start to lose it when we hit 30, and it's really important because, one, it's an active tissue, so it helps maintain so many different systems in our body. Not only that, but we think about strength training and how it, um, puts leverage on the bone to improve bone. But the big thing really is when we think about cognitive decline. So we see that there's a sex difference as we get older in Alzheimer's, dementia, cognitive decline, and it has to do with brain, brain metabolism, so that's the fuel that your brain uses, and what we call neuroplasticity or how your brain, uh, a- adapts and creates neural pathways.

Mel Robbins 49:00 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 49:01 If we're strength training-... then we're, yeah, we're taking care of our bone and our muscle, but it's creating signals to the brain to increase its ability to be really plastic. So it's like, "Yeah, okay, I need to have a new path- pathway. Let's develop that pathway." And so it's always changing. It's like sudoku, right? You're mentally working on that. But strength training does the same thing, but it also improves overall metabolism. So now your brain is very flexible and it's like, "Okay, well, I need glucose, but then I can use lactate." So when you start doing all of these things, it reduces your chances of developing cognitive issues.

Mel Robbins 49:42 Huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 49:42 So for women, I'm always like, yeah, strength training is great because we're building all these things, we're changing our body composition, but for the long term, we wanna have a good body and a good mind. So if we're doing these things and creating more pathways and developing existing pathways and making the brain very responsive and able to be flexible, then we're gonna have a really good sound mind when we're all doing Zimmer frame races when we're 100.

Mel Robbins 50:10 What are Zimmer frame races?

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:11 You know those frames that old women have to use and, or old men?

Mel Robbins 50:15 (laughs) I've never seen those.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:16 I don't know what you're talking about.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:17 In the nursing homes, you haven't seen those silver walkers?

Mel Robbins 50:20 Oh, yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 50:21 I thought there was a game you were talking about.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:23 No, no. So the sil-

Mel Robbins 50:24 I have a feeling you're not gonna be using a walker.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:26 Oh, yes.

Mel Robbins 50:26 I have a feeling you're gonna be the one teaching us all how to lift weights when we're 90 years old in the nursing home together.

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:30 Well, no, I'll be using a Zimmer frame. I'll be doing the races with everyone else, 'cause I can't say that my joints are all that great.

Mel Robbins 50:38 (laughs)

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:39 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 50:39 So what is the biology behind building muscle and how is it different for men versus women? Like, what do women need to know?

Dr. Stacy Sims 50:48 Women are what we call more fatigue resistant. So as I was describing earlier, the differences in the muscle fiber types, right? So women have more of those fat burning, we call endurant fibers. So that means that you can do lots of work and then you recover relatively quickly. So when we're looking at sets and reps and things like that-

Mel Robbins 51:10 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:10 ... women don't need as much recovery time between your sets and reps to be able to have the same kind of training

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:17 stress. Now break that down.

Mel Robbins 51:19 Please, 'cause I don't know-

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:20 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:20 ... anything that you just talked about. I was like-

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:21 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:22 ... sets, reps, all that stuff.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:23 All that stuff, right.

Mel Robbins 51:23 Okay, what are we doing?

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:24 So say you have a man and a woman that go to the gym and they're like, "Okay, I'm supposed to do five sets." So that's-

Mel Robbins 51:35 Five sets?

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:36 So yeah. Uh, this is-

Mel Robbins 51:38 That's a lot.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:39 I know. It's an avatar here. okay, well, let's just-

Mel Robbins 51:41 Or a group.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:41 ... use an avatar of somebody who (laughs) is just starting. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 51:45 Okay? So like, we're gonna like, what's the bare minimum, doctor? So I'm looking for something I can succeed at. Five sets sounds like a lot to me.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:52 Yeah, I'll get to there.

Mel Robbins 51:53 Okay, okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:53 But I want, I wanted to explain the biology.

Mel Robbins 51:55 All right, I'm gonna shut up. Okay, you tell me the biology.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:57 I'll give you the biology-

Mel Robbins 51:58 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:58 ... and then I'll give you the actionable-

Mel Robbins 51:59 Thank you.

Dr. Stacy Sims 51:59 ... where to start.

Mel Robbins 52:00 Thank you, Dr. Simms.

Dr. Stacy Sims 52:01 All right. So if we take a man and a woman, they go to the gym and they have this, this similar program-

Mel Robbins 52:05 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 52:05 ... where they're supposed to do five sets of five reps on the three minutes. So what does that mean? You do five reps of a squat in three minutes, so however long it takes you to do those, and then you rest the rest of the time for three minutes.

Mel Robbins 52:19 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 52:19 So maybe it takes you 30 seconds to do your five squats and then you have two minutes and 30 seconds to recover.

Mel Robbins 52:26 Oh, okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 52:26 And you do that five times. So that's five by five.

Mel Robbins 52:29 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 52:29 So if a man and a woman both do that and we look over time the strength, the relative strength gains, so that means relative to sex and body weight, the man will acquire better strength gains than a woman. But if we were to change that recovery for the woman to go five sets on five by five on the two minute, so she does it in 30 seconds and has a minute 30 recovery, then over a course of time, she'll have the same outcomes, because her body is like, "I don't need as much rest." So it starts to kind of downturn with so much rest.

Mel Robbins 53:06 Huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:06 So you can put more training stress on in less time as a woman.

Mel Robbins 53:09 Wow.

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:10 So this is one of the things that we're starting to really discover in the strength training research because it's relatively new. We're like, okay, we know that there's these sex differences in the muscle fiber types where women have more of these, you know, endurant type fibers, men have more of the fast twitch glycolytic fibers. So if we really want to maximize the outcome of our strength training, we need to work to women's physiology where they don't need as much rest to get the same kind of, um, stress and outcome.

Mel Robbins 53:38 And you know what I like about that?

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:40 Time efficient.

Mel Robbins 53:40 It means it doesn't take as much time.

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:42 Exactly, time efficient.

Mel Robbins 53:43 And I don't have a lot of time.

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:43 I know.

Mel Robbins 53:44 So that's very good news, Dr. Simms.

Dr. Stacy Sims 53:45 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 53:46 You know, I'm about to ask you a bunch of questions about like the specifics of what we should be doing, but I had one question. You know, whenever I'm complaining about, uh, my body or, you know, feeling outta shape or whatever it is that I want to change, my husband always turns to me and says, "Well, don't forget, abs are built in the kitchen-

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:06 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 54:06 ... not in the gym."

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:07 Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's similar.

Mel Robbins 54:09 You're, is this like a man's... Is that what works for men?

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:12 That works for men, definitely. Yep.

Mel Robbins 54:14 'Cause when I hear that abs are built in the kitchen, not in the gym, I'm like, "Am I supposed to starve myself?" Like, what, what are you talking about?

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:22 Right. So this comes back to the, uh, you know, the fasting, and I get really frustrated where more men will, will drop alcohol or they'll drop sugar, then all of a sudden their abs are ripped, right?

Mel Robbins 54:33 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:33 They're like, "Whoo, belly fat gone."

Mel Robbins 54:35 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:35 But for women, we tend to store belly fat, you know?

Mel Robbins 54:38 Correct. And if I'm not drinking-

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 54:40 ... I want results.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:41 I know, but it doesn't necessarily happen.

Mel Robbins 54:43 No, it doesn't-

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:44 No.

Mel Robbins 54:44 ... Dr. Simms.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:45 It doesn't.

Mel Robbins 54:45 This is not fair.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:46 No.

Mel Robbins 54:47 'Cause I don't understand my own body.

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:49 I know. It's very frustrating.

Mel Robbins 54:50 And I've been listening to the bro science and my stupid husband telling me the advice that works for him-

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:54 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 54:54 ... and he's, he's only trying to help. So what do I... So why does it not work that way for women?

Dr. Stacy Sims 54:59 We have a higher percent body fat.... for one, and again, it comes down to food intake in the hypothalamus. So if we start taking out food and not replacing those calories with something else, then we end up in a lower energy state. So that's a- n- that could be a whole nother podcast, but basically we're not eating enough to support body composition change and health outcomes. So if we talk about abs in the kitchen, if we're eating the same kind of grandparent diet, then we're gonna have the same outcomes, right? But if we have the extra 20 bit of life where we're having chocolate and whiskey and all those fun things, a man can take that out and get super ripped. A woman takes it out, there's no change. Why? Because the hypothalamus is like, "Where are those calories? I need those calories." So if we want to eat a little bit cleaner, we have to make sure that we're actually s- providing enough calories. So if we're providing enough calories and our body's like, "Yep, sweet, we got enough for all the things that we need to do in a day, overcome the stress, and we have enough to, uh, fuel the training and the changes we want with the exercise we're doing," you're gonna get those abs.

Mel Robbins 56:08 Wow.

Dr. Stacy Sims 56:08 And then the compound movements, like working abs in a functional way, not doing sit-ups, but like doing deadlifts or squats where you have to use your abs as a support mechanism builds them faster than you see, you know, guys on the floor doing lots of sit-ups or Russian twists. Yeah, they're gonna get those strong abs. But for women, it's better to do this compound for that torsion to be able to use that as support, because then it allows us to stand upright and have better posture, 'cause our center of gravity is down in our hips. Men's center of gravity is up in their chest. So if we're working to control our posture and develop the strength through our core, and we're standing up taller, our abs show.

Mel Robbins 56:51 Wow. 'Cause I- I would be a happy woman if I never had to do a crunch again.

Dr. Stacy Sims 56:55 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:55 And so if I'm actually lifting, that could be true. So let's talk about the specific things we should be doing.

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:02 Okay.

Mel Robbins 57:03 What is the minimum amount of exercise that a woman needs to maintain her health and to be strong?

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:12 If we are looking from an age standpoint-

Mel Robbins 57:15 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:15 Okay?

Mel Robbins 57:15 Let's start with our 20s.

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:16 In our 20s, you can get away with a lot, right?

Mel Robbins 57:19 What does that mean?

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:20 So that means that you could do bare minimum, couple of days a week of mixed aerobic and strength training. So you don't have to do that much.

Mel Robbins 57:29 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:29 So it could be a total body circuit set twice a week, and-

Mel Robbins 57:32 That means like going to the gym and doing the machines?

Dr. Stacy Sims 57:35 You could do that or you could do an at-home circuit where you can do what I say every- every minute on the minute. So you warm up with stretches and mobility for five or so minutes, and then you have five minutes where one minute is jumping lunges. The next minute might be some push-ups. The third minute might be, um, some overhead thrusts or, you know, you're pushing something overhead. The fourth minute might be some air squats, and then the fifth minute is completely off where you're recovering. You do that circuit two or three times, that's all you need.

Mel Robbins 58:09 Wow, and you don't even need equipment?

Dr. Stacy Sims 58:11 No. That's your bare minimum, right-

Mel Robbins 58:13 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 58:13 ... 'cause we're talking bare minimums.

Mel Robbins 58:14 And talk to me about cardio, 'cause we've all been so obsessed with cardio.

Dr. Stacy Sims 58:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:18 So is cardio a good thing? Is it a bad thing?

Dr. Stacy Sims 58:20 So cardio is interesting because it's about intensity.

Mel Robbins 58:22 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 58:22 So if we're talking about going for a walk, that's really good. Like you're walking with a friend, perfect, because that's gonna allow you to have some metabolic change. It's gonna improve your blood glucose. It's gonna improve your body's stress resilience. And hey, you get to hang out with a friend, so that's great. It's community. It's connection. It's all of the great things. So that's one kind of cardio. If we're looking at improving our blood pressure, you can do some walking, but what we find is true high-intensity work that's, uh, really directed, we call it sprint interval training where it's 30 seconds or less, as hard as you can go, and it doesn't have to be running. It could be kettlebell swings. It could be air squats, jumping lunges. Could be running. Could be cycling, anything that's gonna make you go as hard as you can for 30 seconds or less and recover for two minutes. You might do two or three of those, and that is such a strong stress that it creates this whole cascade of change that improves your entire cardiovascular system.

Mel Robbins 59:21 Okay, so let me make sure I'm tracking. So one thing that you would tell us to do is to do sprint training.

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:29 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 59:29 Which sounds horrible, but it actually, as you broke it down, was like, "Oh, I could do that."

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 59:33 30 seconds or less of something that's high intensity, whether you're sprinting on a treadmill, or you're doing kettlebell swings, or you're doing push-ups, or you're doing jumping jacks, or just something.

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:43 Right.

Mel Robbins 59:43 And then you rest for a minute and a half?

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:46 A minute and a half to two minutes because we want a full recovery from... It's more of a central nervous system recovery-

Mel Robbins 59:52 Hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:52 ... because we want to be able to go just as hard, if not harder for the next interval.

Mel Robbins 59:56 And then how many of those am I doing?

Dr. Stacy Sims 59:58 So you don't wanna do any more than five. And when-

Mel Robbins 1:00:00 Oh, I love the minimum. That's it?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:00:02 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:03 I can do that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:00:04 That's the maximum. Five is the maximum.

Mel Robbins 1:00:06 Now we're talking, Dr. Sims.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:00:08 Some people will go, "Oh, I could do all five," and then they start, and if they're doing it properly, after two, they're like, "I can't do anymore." That's fine. You've gotten that impetus of stress, and it creates this whole cascade where all of a sudden your muscles are releasing signals called myokines that now is telling your liver, "Let's not store that visceral fat. We need the- that fat for other things." It's also telling your body, "We don't wanna store under the skin subcutaneous fat. We need that fat for other things." It's also telling your muscles to open up and bring carbohydrate in so our insulin become- or we become more sensitive to insulin. So there's so many great things about that high, high intensity. And by the way, your blood vessels are gonna respond really well, so you get better blood vessel compliance, vasodilation constriction, so better blood pressure control, because again, your body responds to stress, and it's such a strong stress, your body's like, "There's this whole myriad of things that I need to be able to do to do that stress again."So it's a really effective means of getting heart health, better metabolic health, and better body composition.

Mel Robbins 1:01:16 And burning fat-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:17 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:17 ... in 30 seconds of effort.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:19 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:01:19 I mean, I- I am gonna- I am actually gonna do that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:22 Good.

Mel Robbins 1:01:23 That sounds-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:23 Do it.

Mel Robbins 1:01:23 ... like some, 'cause, uh, when you were going in the box, I'm like, "I think I can absolutely do that." And again, I also love that it doesn't take a lot of time.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:31 No. I mean, I come from a huge endurance background, but now I'm tra... Like I live in New Zealand, I'm traveling the world. I have a daughter, I have a business, super busy, and I still want to exercise because one, it helps with stress resilient too. Yeah, I'm like, you know, there's a little aesthetics and vanity in there, of course.

Mel Robbins 1:01:53 Of course.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:01:53 And sprint interval, it's, so between lifting three days a week and some sprint training, that's pretty much what I do 'cause that's all I have time for.

Mel Robbins 1:02:02 Lifting three days a week.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:02:04 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:02:05 And that sprint training we just heard of 30-second bursts, full recovery for a minute and a half to two minutes, and try to do it five times maximum.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:02:14 Yep, and sometimes, I put that on the end of my strength training 'cause if I'm already at the gym, I might finish with some Aer- Airdyne bike, you know, 30 seconds as hard as I can go. So I'm maximizing time, so I don't spend any more than 45 minutes to an hour in the gym.

Mel Robbins 1:02:29 So if you had to bottom line what a woman should be doing in her 20s versus her 30s versus her 40s versus 50s and up, what would it be?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:02:37 Mm-hmm. So strength training across the board.

Mel Robbins 1:02:39 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:02:40 The type of strength training you do is different. So when we're in our 20s and our early 30s, we can do some of the protocol stuff that- that is out there for men, like you're doing your 10 to 12 reps, or you're going to failure, or you're going in and you're doing a full body workout. You're gonna get results. As we start to get into our mid-30s and onward, we start to have changes in our estrogen, progesterone.

Mel Robbins 1:03:03 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:03 And it doesn't quite work for us.

Mel Robbins 1:03:04 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:05 'Cause now we need to find an external stress that's gonna create the same responses that those hormones used to support.

Mel Robbins 1:03:13 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:13 So now we want to look at more of a power-based type training. So don't-

Mel Robbins 1:03:18 What does that mean?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:18 Yeah. As in, don't be afraid.

Mel Robbins 1:03:19 So 30 and up, your hormones change, and now the 10 to 12 reps that we've all been socialized to do-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:26 Not so great. Not so great.

Mel Robbins 1:03:27 ... does not work, which is why we all start bitching about the fact that our bodies are not responding-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:32 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:03:32 ... to what we always used to do.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:33 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:03:33 This makes a lot of sense, Dr. Sims.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:35 So when you're doing the higher reps, it's more of what we call metabolic stress. So that's more like muscle contraction using fuel.

Mel Robbins 1:03:42 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:42 But it's not an impetus to build lean mass or to become stronger. So this is where I say the power base. So when we're talking about the spectrum of weights and- and- and the reps and sets and stuff-

Mel Robbins 1:03:54 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:54 ... power base is zero to six to eight reps and you-

Mel Robbins 1:03:57 Oh, I love that.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:58 You're like, "What?"

Mel Robbins 1:03:58 I can do less?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:03:59 Yes, but it has to be heavy.

Mel Robbins 1:04:01 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:02 Has to be heavy load.

Mel Robbins 1:04:03 I don't like that, but okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:03 Yeah. So that means that you go and you pick up, say we pick up this 20, right?

Mel Robbins 1:04:07 Uh-huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:08 And you're like, "Oh yeah, I can do 10 overhead, no problem. Maybe I could do two more." Great, so we call that 10 with two reps in reserve.

Mel Robbins 1:04:16 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:16 We want you to be at a six with two reps in reserve. So that means I would have you put the 20 down and pick up those 30s and see, can you do six really good?

Mel Robbins 1:04:26 Wow.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:26 Not failing form. And then could you eke out two more? Great. That's the weight that we want you to use.

Mel Robbins 1:04:33 Gotcha.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:33 So-

Mel Robbins 1:04:34 I'm definitely lifting way too light and I am lifting far too much of it. Like the little tiny two-pound weights with the little-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:42 Oh, put those down.

Mel Robbins 1:04:43 Put those down? Like those aren't doing anything for my chicken wing arms?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:47 No.

Mel Robbins 1:04:47 No?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:47 No, not at all.

Mel Robbins 1:04:48 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:48 Not at all.

Mel Robbins 1:04:49 Well, that explains it 'cause I'm like, "Why does this hurt so much and I'm getting zero result here?"

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:53 Yeah, because-

Mel Robbins 1:04:54 But my daughters literally look like they're cut.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:56 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:04:57 Wow.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:04:58 'Cause- 'cause they respond well to metabolic stress. As our bodies get older, we need more of a central nervous system stress.

Mel Robbins 1:05:04 Gotcha. So the general takeaway here is that when we hit that sort of late 30s to 40s mark and our estrogen is dropping and our bodies are changing and we're not getting the same results, you gotta really focus on these sprint trainings and also doing weight training where the load is heavier but the reps are- are shorter.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:05:26 Yeah. But I don't want women who are listening to go, "Oh, I heard Mel's podcast and I have to go lift these heavy weights and do sprint training." It takes time-

Mel Robbins 1:05:37 Yeah.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:05:37 ... to learn how to do things well without getting injured because, I mean, when we get older, we're more susceptible to soft tissue injury, joint injuries. So I always want women to learn how to move first. So if you've never done any kind of strength training-

Mel Robbins 1:05:52 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:05:52 ... don't be put off by, "Oh, I heard I have to lift heavy weights. I better not do it at all." No, any kind of resistance is good. Maybe it's just body weight at the start. Maybe you're doing a body weight circuit and then maybe you're putting a backpack with some stuff that's in there to make it a little bit heavier. Maybe you're following somebody online that's teaching you how to move properly first.

Mel Robbins 1:06:12 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:06:13 And over the course of time, you can add load because your body is learning how to move and it's becoming stress resilient. So you add load to increase that stress. And then over the course of six to eight months, you're gonna be in lifting heavy weights and doing the sprints without injury. So it- it's not a training block like we've all been conditioned to, what do I do every day, in and out, in and out-

Mel Robbins 1:06:35 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:06:36 ... so I can get X results? We wanna think about, what am I doing to improve my overall health, my strength, my bones, my brain so that when I'm 80, I'm self-sufficient? When I'm 90, I'm self-sufficient. It's not a training block, it's a lifestyle that we want in. So it takes time to build into that lifestyle.

Mel Robbins 1:06:55 So I have another question from a listener named Erin. Is it better to use machines or free weights?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:07:02 With machines, I want people to realize that it's hard for a woman to actually get the machines to fit well 'cause they are designed for a 5'8" to 6-foot guy who's 160 to 190 pounds.So if you are outside of that norm, it's really hard to get the right fit, which can predispose you to injury.

Mel Robbins 1:07:24 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:07:25 If you are just getting started, it can be a way because you're not gonna put a lot of load on-

Mel Robbins 1:07:31 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:07:31 ... you're not gonna get as injured. Like, I'm not... For me personally, I'm not a huge fan of something like Planet Fitness, but I do appreciate the fact that they've opened the doors to so many people to make lifting accessible. So a woman can go in and use their machine circuit and get some resistance and some load to start to get themself resilient, so then they can move away from those machines and get into dumbbells. I like more of the free weights where you have a barbell or a dumbbell because you have to use more of your-

Mel Robbins 1:08:03 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:08:03 ... stabilizing muscles, which is how we move anyway. 'Cause you're not gonna go pick up a bag of groceries just with your arm, right? So if you're looking at, um, bicep curls or triceps dips on a machine, that's not functional per se. Yes, you're adding load, but I like it when people are, "Okay, I've got to lift the groceries," or, "I've got to lift this overhead, so I'm gonna do a full squat using my abs, and then I'm gonna go from ground to overhead." It could be with a plate, it could be with a dumbbell. It could just be that motion at start, 'cause we have to think about how we move in the day.

Mel Robbins 1:08:39 I would love to have you talk directly to the person listening who has never stepped foot in a gym.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:08:45 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:08:46 'Cause I do think, you know, even though I'm in shape and I know a little bit about what I should be doing, I always feel intimidated when I go to a gym because there's always guys, like it's filled with guys.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:08:59 Yep.

Mel Robbins 1:08:59 And there's more and more women which is great, but if I walk into a gym, even- even at a hotel, and I'm seeing all the machines, and then I see the free weight space, and then I see the little space over, and- and I don't know exactly what I should be doing-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:09:14 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:09:14 ... I don't stay long and I leave. And I would love to have you, since you've been in this industry for so long, talk to the person who wants to do something and wants to learn about this, but the idea of actually walking into the local gym is just daunting.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:09:32 Yep.

Mel Robbins 1:09:33 So what do you want them to know though about the people at the front desk and the way that people at a gym think about somebody new walking in?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:09:42 Yeah, so gyms are super gendered. I sometimes get intimidated.

Mel Robbins 1:09:48 You do?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:09:48 Yeah. So I'll say, like, if I go to a typical bro gym, like a Gold's Gym-

Mel Robbins 1:09:54 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:09:54 ... I'll walk in and I'll see the lifting platforms, and there's some big dudes. And I'm like, "Uh, maybe I'll come back. I'll go do something else first." So it's- it's still there because the gyms are so gendered, and it's a fault of that industry, where you walk in as a woman, the front desk person looks at you and goes, "Oh, okay. How much weight do you wanna lose? Here's the cardio machines."

Mel Robbins 1:10:19 (laughs)

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:10:19 "Here are our classes." If a guy walks in, they're like, "Yo, bro, how much weight do you wanna put on? How much muscle? The lifting platforms are back there, and we have bumper plates, and our dumbbells go up to 80 pounds, so you know, it's all back there." But it's so gendered even if you feel like-

Mel Robbins 1:10:38 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:10:38 ... "I'm gonna go to the free weights," because you have to walk through all the treadmills and the ellipticals and cardio.

Mel Robbins 1:10:44 Yeah. Yep.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:10:44 And then, you... Like, the free weights are here, and then lifting platforms are at the back.

Mel Robbins 1:10:48 Yes.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:10:49 So it's not surprising that someone who's not ever been in a gym situation doesn't want to go into a gym situation. And the way that we can get started in this is put the gym out- out of your head at the moment, right?

Mel Robbins 1:11:03 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:11:03 So we can look at... There are two main things that allow women to thrive in strength training. One is knowing what to do and two is community, right? We see that working out with someone else is fun for one thing, and two, it allows you to push yourself a little bit harder. It's just intrinsically you want to keep up or you don't want to look like the weak link. It's just a psych- psychological thing.

Mel Robbins 1:11:26 Huh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:11:26 So community and working- working out with someone is super important. So if you're someone who's like, "I don't want to go to the gym, I don't know what to do," well, we can look at some of the online things that are out there. So, like, if you're really super, super basic and you want someone to work with, maybe one-on-one or maybe a small group, you could look to someone like Loretta Hawk who does Loretta Loves Lifting. She's very, like she trains her mom, she trains other people who are just trying to really understand how to do stuff in their house. So it's a very basic way of starting, and you can move forward from there. If you're someone who's like, "I got that part, but I want to work out with a friend and we want a set program," then maybe you look at someone like The Betty Rocker, where she has specific programs. We can work out with her in her community or you and a friend can work out together-

Mel Robbins 1:12:12 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:12:12 ... and that's a way to do more stuff with dumbbells in the house. Then we can move forward and go to something like Haley Happens Fitness that I've partnered with, where it's from the gym where you actually have an app that shows you what to do. You can go into the gym, you know exactly what machines or- or barbell or dumbbells to use. You bring in a friend. You can both do it together. So you're like, "Here's my app. This is what I do." You can record everything, keeps progress, and you know exactly what to do. And it's guided for 12 weeks, and it's progressive overload so you get benefit. There's lots of conversations. There's lots of community around it. Or you can even look, if you're really confident and you're like, "Yep, I got that too. I want to go straight to barbell with some dumbbell," then you can look at something like Annie Torsdottir's Empower, which has a page from CrossFit. So there's all sorts of levels that you can find, and the big thing is grab a friend. Have a friend and have that ownership to say, "For 20 minutes, let's meet, have our conversation, and do this together because we're gonna get strong together, and it's fun." I've been trying to-... get my daughter engaged in some strength training stuff, and she's 12. We have a project coming up where she needs to know how to move properly.

Mel Robbins 1:13:31 Hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:13:31 And I have her working with one of my friends in a high performance gym, but it's not lifting, it's moving and having fun. So she has another little friend in there who's a surfer and a soccer player just like she is, and they go there and they have fun. She came back the first day fizzing, going, "I didn't know how fun it could be at the gym, especially when you have a friend." I'm like, "Exactly." It's the adult playground, but little kids are being exposed to it. It's like, "Come into my playground. Let's play together."

Mel Robbins 1:13:57 Oh, I love calling it a playground.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:13:59 It is absolutely a playground. Where else can you, like, jump up and down on things, and then, like, there's a rope and you can pull the rope, or there's a sled and you can push and pretend you're a bear, whatever it is? It doesn't matter. Everyone's there sweating. Everyone's there doing stuff. It's like, make it time to play. Don't make it something that you're like, "I don't wanna go. This is too hard."

Mel Robbins 1:14:20 And I appreciate the list of resources, and we'll make sure to link to those in the show notes. So I have a bunch of burning questions that listeners submitted, okay?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:32 Okay. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:14:32 And we may have covered some of this, but I'm just gonna hit these so that I make sure to cover the things that keep a- people kept writing in about-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:39 Okay.

Mel Robbins 1:14:39 ... that they wanted you to a- answer, Dr. Simms.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:41 Okay.

Mel Robbins 1:14:42 Can you talk about cold plunging?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:43 Sure.

Mel Robbins 1:14:44 Should women be doing it? What are the mistakes that we're making? What's the difference between men and women and cold plunging?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:50 So inherently, women don't need as cold.

Mel Robbins 1:14:53 (gasps)

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:53 So...

Mel Robbins 1:14:54 Thank you.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:55 I know.

Mel Robbins 1:14:55 We don't?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:55 No.

Mel Robbins 1:14:56 Why?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:14:57 When we're looking at stress response, 'cause that's how I view all of the environmental and exercise things, is what kind of stress it puts on the body. When a woman gets into ice cold or cold water, and gets in there, it invokes such a severe strong stress response, much stronger than a male's response, that her body goes into, uh, more of a shutdown phase, where it invokes a sympathetic drive and it doesn't create the metabolic changes that we see with men. If you were to take a woman and put her in 15 or 16 degrees Celsius, which is around that 55 degree mark, she'll end up with the same responses that a man has, because it's not as severe a shock to a woman's body as it is for a man's. Why is that? Because we have more body fat, so we tend to vasodilate and vasoconstrict first for controlling our temperature, where men will vasoconstrict and sweat.

Mel Robbins 1:15:57 When they're cold?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:15:58 No. When-

Mel Robbins 1:15:58 Oh, in general.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:15:59 We're talking about just in general.

Mel Robbins 1:16:00 Okay.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:16:00 So if we're taking a woman and putting her in ice, the body's first response to environmental change is severe vasoconstriction. And with women with Raynaud's, we have a stronger constriction response, because it's a protective mechanism. For men, they'll constrict and then start shivering to induce heat, and women will just constrict. If we put ourselves into that 55 to 60 degree water or 15 to 16 degrees Celsius, we'll constrict and then start shivering, so we'll get the same benefit. It's just the ice is too cold for us to start that shivering. So we need-

Mel Robbins 1:16:36 Oh.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:16:36 ... the shivering for thermogenesis to get some of those responses. So we don't need ice, we need cool water.

Mel Robbins 1:16:43 I have been doing this all wrong.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:16:44 And do you feel uncomfortable when you get in the ice? (laughs)

Mel Robbins 1:16:48 Of- Well, I- I- I mean, I live in southern Vermont, so there's always-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:16:52 Oh, so, yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:16:52 ... like an ice slick on the thing, and you're, like, having to take an ax and, you know, cut off the top of the barrel or keep an agricultural bubbler in it to keep it from freezing.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:01 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:17:01 It's- it's gotta be at least 32 degrees.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:04 Yeah, too cold.

Mel Robbins 1:17:05 And my husband gets in it, and he's like a fricking, like, meditation zen... He just gets in, sits down, he starts shivering.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:13 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:17:14 I climb in that sucker, and I'm like, "Uh," and then I can barely breathe.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:18 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:17:18 I never shiver.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:19 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:17:20 And the shivering is what you're supposed to be doing in there?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:17:23 Yes, because shivering is an automatic, uh, response for survival. Because when we're shivering, we're increasing metabolic heat, so we're able to keep our core temperature elevated so we don't die. And it's a strong response that the body has to cold. For women, when we're vasoconstricting and we're trying to hold heat in, we don't have the capacity because water on the cold skin is pulling out the heat so fast that the body is just getting colder and colder and colder, and we won't really start shivering when it's that cold. So when we're looking at, like, if you get in the ice, it's way colder than if you get into a plunge pool that's cold.

Mel Robbins 1:18:03 Mm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:03 So if we have four degrees plunge pool, four degrees Celsius, so that's about 38 degrees Fahrenheit, and you sit there in a little microclimate and you don't move at all, you'll create a warm bubble around you and then you might start to shiver. So that's what we say if you fall through the ice and you're tr- trying to swim, it's like, no, just try to bob there to keep this warm microclimate around you. So if you get in cool water and you don't move, then you might start shivering. But for the most part, that doesn't happen. So for women, let's look at a little bit warmer so we get the same kind of responses-

Mel Robbins 1:18:36 Hm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:36 ... and adaptations that men have.

Mel Robbins 1:18:37 And if you do this in 55 degree water-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:40 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:18:40 ... so it's more cool-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:42 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:18:42 ... it's not ice cold-

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:43 Right.

Mel Robbins 1:18:43 ... what is the benefit to a woman's body by doing a cold plunge, and how long should you be in it?

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:52 So when we look at a cold plunge, the whole idea, again, is environmental stress.

Mel Robbins 1:18:56 Mm-hmm.

Dr. Stacy Sims 1:18:56 So we start to see an improvement in our, um, parasympathetic sympathetic drive, so now we're able to get into that (blows air) calming, uh, 'cause, again, body becoming resilient to stress. We have an increase in our body's capacity for using glucose, so we have better