What Every Dad Should Know: Lessons From Literary Legend James Patterson

Mel Robbins 0:00 In our Boston studios today, holy cow, are you and I in for a spectacular treat. We have James Patterson. He's the record-breaking literary legend who has sold more than 400 million books. But today, he has stepped away from the writing desk and is pulling up a chair with you and me for a life-changing conversation about fatherhood. James Patterson is letting you in on the things you don't really hear dads talk about. Did your dad ever tell you that he loved you?

James Patterson 0:34 (sighs) Uh, the only time I remember hugging my father was on his deathbed. So many guys out there are lost, overwhelmed. They're no longer the breadwinner or whatever they thought they were gonna be. But I also realized I could love someone in a significant way, and also that I was lovable. This person, this core guy-

Mel Robbins 0:55 Hm.

James Patterson 0:55 ... is actually lovable. And if we could get more guys to that place, they would have better lives.

Mel Robbins 1:02 How did becoming a father later in life really change you?

James Patterson 1:07 At the end of the day, when we're looking back at our lives, the most important job you're ever gonna have is as a mom and a dad. And to realize that a little bit and have that drive you, that's probably the most important thing that we do.

Mel Robbins 1:21 Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to The Mel Robbins Podcast. I am thrilled that you're here, and it is always such an honor to spend time together, to be with you. And today, holy cow, are you and I in for a spectacular treat. We get to sit down with none other than James Patterson. And if you're a new listener, I just want to take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family. Thank you for being here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know about you. I know that you're either a mega James Patterson fan or you are the kind of person who values the people in your life and you would love to know simple ways to improve your relationships with the people who matter most. And I'm gonna tell you something. If you're not a James Patterson fan, you will be after the conversation today. James Patterson has sold a mind-blowing 400 million copies of his books and counting. I mean, you can't step into anyone's house, a bookstore, a library, even the tiniest airport newsstand around the world without spotting a James Patterson title, or heck, 10 of 'em staring right back at you. Alex Cross, Michael Bennett, The Women's Murder Club. James Patterson has written everything from edge-of-your-seat thrillers, laugh-out-loud kids books, jaw-dropping true crime, heartwarming tales of love and loss. You name it. If it's part of the human experience, James Patterson has written it, and readers adore him. Having authored or co-authored over 200 books, he's a literary legend and a machine, and he just keeps on going and going and going, and breaking records along the way. James Patterson holds the Guinness World Record for the most number one New York Times bestsellers. He's the first author to sell a million e-books. And the awards, they just stack up like his stories. But his impact goes far beyond what he creates. James Patterson is a philanthropist dedicated to improving literacy. He's donated over a million books to students and to soldiers serving overseas. He awards scholarships to future teachers and writers through the Patterson Family Foundation, and he has poured more than $9 million into school libraries and independent bookstores across the United States. And out of everything he's written and accomplished, Dad is still his favorite title. His newest release is The #1 Dad Book: Be the Best Dad You Can Be in 1 Hour. I've read it. It's a fast, funny, and heartfelt read packed with the real life lessons James Patterson wishes he'd known sooner. Now, he's come to our Boston studios today for one reason, to be here with you and to share those lessons with you, lessons you'll want to share with all the soon-to-be dads, fathers, grandfathers, and father figures in your life. And this is a pretty special moment for me, because my dad, hi Dad, happens to be one of the biggest James Patterson fans I know.

Mel Robbins 4:23 So please help me welcome the one and only James Patterson to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so thrilled you're here.

James Patterson 4:31 I, I'm excited. I really am. And a lot of times at these things you don't get that excited, but this time it, this is, this is, uh, it's really fun, I think.

Mel Robbins 4:38 Well, I am so excited to discuss your n- your newest book. I mean-

James Patterson 4:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:43 ... you've got so many books, but this one is really special.

James Patterson 4:47 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 4:47 The #1 Dad Book: Be the Best Dad You Can Be in 1 Hour. I would love to start by just having you speak directly to the person who has found the time and made the time to be here with you and me today. What might they experience about their life that could be different if they've-

James Patterson 5:07 Yeah, I think, person, (laughs) you know, uh, uh, I, ho- hopefully this book, and I think it is in the spirit of what Mel does with all of these podcasts, which is to help a little. Uh, a- and, and, and that's huge. Help a little to, to make tomorrow a little better, to... A- and in particular, because this book affects everybody in your family. It's, it's for dads, but in, in talking to dads, in helping dads to be better, uh, it will help the partners and it will definitely help the kids. Uh, and the grandparents even. So this book, I think, is in the spirit with, with pretty much everything that Mel does, and, and I think it's particularly useful because this isn't a book about, "Well, let's think about stuff and then we go home and w- and nothing changes." This is about doing. This is about changing, uh, in good ways. And it's not a book about perfect, 'cause I don't believe in that and I don't, I don't know (laughs) how anybo- I don't think we can be p- every guy can be perfect but not us. Uh, uh, this is, this is about...... uh, being better tomorrow than we were today. And as I said, it- it, the idea of doing this for the whole family is, it's, I think, I think it's a very useful thing and I'm, I'm really excited about, about spending some time with you.

Mel Robbins 6:19 And we're super excited to spend time with you. And we're gonna dig into this book. I love, love, love this book, and I know you're gonna love it too. And before we jump into the number one dad book and all the incredible lessons in it, I just wanna take a step back and talk a little bit about your career.

James Patterson 6:38 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:39 You were not born a bestselling author.

James Patterson 6:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 6:42 But the world knows you as probably the most successful living author today. 400 million copies of your books sold.

James Patterson 6:52 Yeah, too many. Way too many. He writes too many books, but, you know, whatever.

Mel Robbins 6:56 67 number one New York Times bestsellers. You've got 13 more books coming out this year alone. And you have a really interesting story though, because you didn't begin as a writer. You were studying to get a PhD and then went into advertising. Tell me a little bit about your background.

James Patterson 7:14 Well, I was in advertising, but I've been clean for 30 years now, so thank you for bringing that up.

Mel Robbins 7:19 (laughs)

James Patterson 7:19 (laughs) Um, yeah, I, I grew up, uh, well, I just, uh, grew up in a small town upstate New York, Newburgh, New York. Um, my father actually grew up in a poor house there. Um, his mother was a charwoman. She cleaned the bathrooms and the kitchens, and he got th- th- they had shared a room in the basement. Um, and, um, you know, so kind of lower middle class in terms of the way, way we grew up. And, um, I, I was, I always wanted... I was a good student, but I wasn't a big reader, uh, in high school, Catholic high school. I moved up actually in, in this area, uh, my parents did, w- had moved to Lexington, and I worked at McLean Hospital, uh, in Belmont nearby, a mental hospital, and I worked a lot of night shifts and I, I would go into Cambridge like three times a week and just get these books. You could buy 'em for 25 cents. And I started reading, reading, reading, and then I started scribbling. And this turned around my life and I think saved me as a human being and has eliminated a lot of stress and sores and difficulty from my life because somebody said, "You're lucky if you find something you like to do, and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it." Well, in starting to read and reading stuff that I wanted to read and reading a lot of fiction and plays and whatever, I found what I wanted to do. I wasn't getting paid for it yet, but that was, that was just so key to find this thing. I knew that I wanted to be a writer.

Mel Robbins 8:44 So do you remember the moment where you were like, "I think I want to do this for a living"?

James Patterson 8:48 I, I don't think I... It wasn't that I wanted to do it for a living, but I wanted to do it. I wanted to write novels. Uh, I went down to Vanderbilt for grad school and I was very lucky to have a professor there who just said, "You got it. You have this thing, you can, you can do it." I was writing a lot of short stories and I wrote... uh, there was actually... The first book I was, uh, yeah, I, I published it when I was 26, the Thomas Berryman number. Uh, it got turned down by 31 publishers, then it won an Edgar as best first novel. So go figure that one out. And that's the thing in terms of people, sometimes you get rejected or you get rejected re-... But you just, if, if you believe in yourself, just, you know, keep going. Uh, and that was something that I did. I, I kind of... And, and this professor helped a lot 'cause he said, "No, you can do this. You have, you, you have what it takes to, to, to be a really good writer, or to be successful, or at least to make a living doing it."

Mel Robbins 9:38 Wasn't it almost 20 years later though that Along Came the Spider! was published?

James Patterson 9:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 9:42 And that's kind of the, the Alex Cross novel. That's the one that my dad's like, "Oh, James Patterson's my..."

James Patterson 9:47 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 9:47 'Cause I grew up with a dad who was always reading your books.

James Patterson 9:52 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 9:53 Always. And so it, I think it's also important to note because more than anything, you've not only been patient, you've been persistent.

James Patterson 10:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 10:03 And I think that's a really important lesson when I look at your life from the outside.

James Patterson 10:07 It, it's a simple thing with me, I just love to do it.

Mel Robbins 10:10 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 10:10 You know? Um, I don't work for a living, I play for a living, honestly. And, and that's... You're so lucky. I mean, anybody that has that happen to them... And it does with some people. Uh- uh, eh, some nurses, some teachers, some... They just, they just love it. My mother was a teacher for 50 years or so, and, and that's... I just wrote a nonfiction book about teachers. It's so hard for them now because they're getting pressure from the left, they're getting pressure from the right, they're getting... The kids are more unruly than they've ever been. The parents, some of them are so into... So it's very, very hard. People are telling 'em how to teach, how not to teach, what's this you do. So it's really, really, really, really, really, really hard. Um, but um, uh, it's just so important that, that the kids should get educated. And I do a lot in that area. Uh, mostly literacy, but, but something that I think that's even more important that I wish we could teach in school, I'll just give you this, which is thinkoracy.

Mel Robbins 11:05 Thinkoracy?

James Patterson 11:05 Thinkoracy, which is teaching kids how to think. Like when they come in, you know, a typical kid, "What are you gonna do after school?" "I don't know." Just getting them to say, "Well, you could read a book, you could play soccer, you could rob a liquor store." You... There's so many things. Just opening their brains up, you know, and, and, and if they could do that in school all the time, you know, 'cause with the kids, a lot of times if you just keep quiet, one of the things that they'll do is, is, at the blank screen, they panic.

Mel Robbins 11:30 Yes.

James Patterson 11:30 All right, you got... L- let, let's say the subject was, um... You, well, you gotta write a story about something. Blank screen. Okay, you got a blank screen. We got it. Just put a picture up on a blank screen. Anything you can think of. A rabbit. Okay, great, you could write a s- you could write about a rabbit. Put another picture up there. Uh, my mom making bread. Good. You could write about that. So how do we... You know, so thinkoracy, getting kids in the habit, habit, monstrous thing, for, for your books, for my books. Getting people in the habit. How do you get them p- you know, I did it once, do it again, do it again, do it again. But if they did that in schools, it would be, it would be great for us. There, there are studies now that, that, uh, uh, kids, they're, they're doing less thinking, less-... um, reasoning than ever, and that's not good, I don't think.

Mel Robbins 12:16 'Cause they're spending more time on their phones.

James Patterson 12:18 I don't know what they're doing, but (laughs) they're not-

Mel Robbins 12:20 Yes.

James Patterson 12:20 ... thinking.

Mel Robbins 12:21 Well, what I also think is really interesting, so you published your first book, uh, at the age of 26 after 31 rejections, but you continued to work in advertising for a long time-

James Patterson 12:33 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 12:33 ... while you were writing books. It's a really important part of your story 'cause I think a lot of people think that you find the thing and then you just do that thing, but you kept-

James Patterson 12:42 It di-

Mel Robbins 12:42 ... a day job.

James Patterson 12:43 It didn't seem logical for me. I didn't, I didn't want to put pressure on the writing. I didn't want to be in a situation where it's like, "If I don't get this published, if I... it's gonna really, it's gonna be pressure." Uh, I didn't want to, to start dreading the thing that I loved.

Mel Robbins 12:57 Mm. I think that's a huge takeaway, that you had the insight to say, "I love this thing so much that if I were to jump in too soon and put pressure on it to make money-

James Patterson 13:10 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:10 ... it actually squeezes the joy and the art-

James Patterson 13:13 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:13 ... out of the thing that I'm doing."

James Patterson 13:14 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:15 And-

James Patterson 13:15 Well, that's, that's just the way I looked at it, yes.

Mel Robbins 13:16 Well, I, it's, it's brilliant. And actually, you, there's a lot of research around entrepreneurs, and they say that if an entrepreneur keeps their day job, they are a third less likely to fail for precisely that reason.

James Patterson 13:30 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 13:30 Because you basically are spreading your bets and you're earning your money over here, which takes the pressure off the thing-

James Patterson 13:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 13:38 ... that you're doing over there. So it was an actual-

James Patterson 13:40 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 13:40 ... brilliant move.

James Patterson 13:41 I don't know if it's, it's just my DNA or, or something with my parents, whatever, in terms of, "Well, okay, what's the consequence of that? Where's that gonna go? Is that gonna be a good thing for you?" Um, uh, so a little, a little cautious, but not in a

James Patterson 13:54 bad way, uh, I think.

Mel Robbins 13:56 That must also be a way in which you write, is thinking through the consequences of what's happening next.

James Patterson 14:02 Well, I, I think part of it, I mean, that's why I do my outlines, uh, e- every... and not everybody does this. I interview, I do interviews a little bit. Like Michael Connelly doesn't do outlines and, uh, uh, Baldacci doesn't do outlines, but I do. I really... uh, and I'm not a slave to them. I mean, I'll do my outline and it can be 50, 60, 70 pages, but then I'm open to... and I, and I always do change 'em because you're writing and you find that a character is more interesting than you thought they were gonna be, or y- you know, y- theoretically you were gonna get rid of the bad guy. "Oh, no, but I, I want the bad guy to come back and" (laughs) you know. Uh, so, so to be open to change is, is also important. And I guess that's important in life too. It's sort of like you, uh, you have to outline your life, right? And, um, uh, y- you know, to have a plan, uh, but not to worry about it. Uh, uh, y- you know, I, I think I'd like to... and, and the other thing I think is to be open, and a lot of people aren't open. They get... "Oh, I never wanna do this. I never..." well, you don't know. A- and, and I think even with kids, how do you get them just to be open? Just consider this.

Mel Robbins 15:01 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 15:01 Think about this. Don't... you know, uh, it... uh, people take kids out to see colleges and the kids go, "Oh, I love these buildings." That's nice, but, you know, in a month, you won't, you won't s- you'll stop noticing the buildings. But what really is it about this school that's really gonna m- you know, for example, uh, our son went to Brown, and the culture there is, um, you're all smart, so don't beat each other up and support each other. So, that's the important thing about that school-

Mel Robbins 15:29 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 15:29 ... or one of the important things. If that appeals to you, then that's a good school for you, much more important than, "Oh, I li- I really liked the buildings and it was so cute and you know, da-de-da." No, no, no, that culture is r- that's really important, if, if that, if that appeals to you.

Mel Robbins 15:42 How do you come up with so many ideas?

James Patterson 15:44 (inhales) Uh, you know, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's hell. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 15:49 What do you mean it's hell?

James Patterson 15:50 No, I'm kidding.

Mel Robbins 15:51 It seems like a gift.

James Patterson 15:52 Y- yeah, it is. It, it, what I... yes, it is a gift. I just, for whatever reason, I just have this monstrous, uh, uh, imagination. I think a piece of it is growing up, uh, in Newburg, uh, initially my, my... it was, uh, seven or eight acres, my grandmother's... it was just woods, you know, th- uh, th- once again, modest house, that they built, my grandmother and grandfather, and then woods. And I would wander out in those woods and just make up stories, story, story, story, story, story, story, story, story. And I think I just got into the habit of it. I remember when I was going to Vanderbilt, I used to drive down there from Massachusetts where I was living, and it was like 28 hours or whatever the hell it was, and I would write musical plays going back and forth to Vanderbilt. I would just make up these plays, and I would, I would... and I'd make them up on the spot and then I would sing the songs, I'm a terrible singer, uh, and, and create the characters as I was going, and I... you know, I don't know, it just, uh, it's somehow in my head, I don't know why, but maybe it's dreams. I don't know (laughs) where it comes from. Sometimes I'll, I'll wake up and I'll be d- I'll be in the middle of a story that I've been dreaming.

Mel Robbins 16:55 And then do you have like a notebook by your bed that you then make notes?

James Patterson 16:58 I used to, I used to. (laughs) But now I... what I found out is that if it's good, you're gonna remember it.

Mel Robbins 17:03 Mm.

James Patterson 17:04 And if you bother to write it down and it wasn't that good, you go like, "What? (laughs) What is this? (laughs) Why did I write this down?" You know? The good stuff I t- I think I remember.

Mel Robbins 17:13 And do you typically work on one project-

James Patterson 17:16 No.

Mel Robbins 17:16 ... at a time?

James Patterson 17:17 No. No, right now, I think there are 31 live projects, things that I'm working on.

Mel Robbins 17:23 And so do you walk in and it's sort of like one of those docents-

James Patterson 17:26 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 17:26 ... like, "Which one's pulling me towards today?"

James Patterson 17:28 No, I, I kind of know, I, I, I kind of know what the one or two or three that I'm messing around with are. But the good thing about it is, uh, you, you don't get writer's block that way.

Mel Robbins 17:37 Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because one of the things that I read about a technique or a strategy that you use that w- I found super help, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I wish I would have read this years ago," is you said that a lot of writers trip themselves up because they try to get the chapter perfect.

James Patterson 17:55 Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 17:56 And you have this ability if the chapter's not working to just-

James Patterson 17:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 17:59 ... be like, "Okay, next," and-

James Patterson 18:00 Well, the... yeah. I, I, I... uh, for me, and I think for a lot of writers-... go on, go to the next chapter. Get it on, on the rewrite, get it on the, on the next rewrite. And ultimately, if you don't get it, turn that chapter into a paragraph starting the next chapter. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 18:15 Oh, wait, that's a great-

James Patterson 18:15 If you can't ultimately figure it out, you just, instead of killing yourself... Perfection on, in some things is the enemy of progress, uh, maybe not in certain tech areas, but in a lot of things. It's like, no, don't worry about perfection. Just keep moving the ball forward, pushing it up the whatever, (laughs) Sisyphus, et cetera, um, uh, for me anyway. And I don't, I, I never, never, ever, ever give advice. I just, here's some thoughts. Here's some thoughts. I mean, part of it with the dad's book, uh, we'll get into it, but part of it had to do with, uh, right through high school people always came to me for, "What do you think of this? What do you think of that?" Da da da da. And, and that's, that's g- a little of what got me doing that book, the idea of I have a lot of thoughts to share.

Mel Robbins 19:02 And I also think, uh, you know, we've only just met, but I also think you are a very sincere and kind person. You come across as very, very caring. So, I think it's not only that you have a lot of thoughts to share, but-

James Patterson 19:16 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 19:16 ... you are also somebody that as you share them, there is a, a very kind and caring intent behind the way in which you share the thoughts.

James Patterson 19:25 It's a weird... Yeah, I think that's an interesting... I don't know that (laughs) it's totally accurate, but-

Mel Robbins 19:29 I'll ask Sue.

James Patterson 19:30 (laughs) Yeah, I think, I think she would say that. But, but I get more pleasure out of giving than receiving. I, I just literally, it just works better for me. And the way I grew up, in particular with my grandparents, they were just very giving. They just, that was their deal. They, you know, they, they would do little soup kitchens and just, just... And that's just the way it was. And they didn't want pats on the back or, you know, like, "I'm gonna go to heaven," or just, that's just the way they were. And, and I kinda do the same thing.

Mel Robbins 19:59 One of the things that you're doing in addition to 31 open projects (laughs) that you're working on-

James Patterson 20:03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:04 ... right now is you have started doing a lot of writing on the subscription platform Substack.

James Patterson 20:09 Little bit, yeah.

Mel Robbins 20:10 Yeah. And yours is called Hungry Dogs, and it has a great backstory.

James Patterson 20:14 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 20:14 Where does that name come from?

James Patterson 20:16 Uh, my grandmother. Uh, her, her, she had that line, "Hungry dogs run faster," (laughs) which is, yeah, that makes sense. (laughs) And, uh, you know, and she brought me up in particular and my sisters to some extent to be kinda hungry dogs, in a good way. Not, not... And, and, and she also was big on, "Go chop wood." Just, you know, go, go do it. Get it done.

Mel Robbins 20:36 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 20:36 Just don't make excuses. Just go out there and chop wood.

Mel Robbins 20:40 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 20:40 And I think... And once again, it was never... With her, it was never... She wasn't gonna stress you out. She wasn't gonna, you know, beat you up if you didn't do it. Uh, I mean, I think the only thing they ever did was, uh, you know, you get a 97 on a test and they go, "Why didn't you get 100?" And then they'd let it go. But that was about the extent of pressure. So, they... And that, and I think that was healthy and good, and it was, uh, it was stimulating with, uh, stimulating as opposed to just cramming you up and, and, and putting pressure on you that's not particularly useful.

Mel Robbins 21:12 So, at, you know, when you reach your 70s, I wouldn't, like, think that you'd be thinking you're a hunger- hungry dog, but you're not slowing down at all. And so, what drives you-

James Patterson 21:22 Well-

Mel Robbins 21:22 ... at this stage in your life?

James Patterson 21:23 Drive, I don't know that... Uh, probably drive is a good word, but I never think of it that way. One of the things that helped a lot during COVID, I wrote my autobiography. I wasn't planning to, but I just started writing down a few stories, and I went, "I'm really enjoying this process," A. And B, uh, I, I said, "I really wanna, I wanna write this well. I wanna really concentrate on the sentences more than I have been in the fiction." But, but, but that helped me in my wr- I think the writing that I've been doing the last couple years is the best I've ever done in terms of... And that, and that's why. The autobiography just got me paying more attention to the sentences again, which I did way back, and then got a little less, I don't know what, lazy? A little something. Lazy, I don't know that... Well, yeah, lazy. Let's call it lazy.

Mel Robbins 22:08 Well, what's the difference... There's gotta be a big difference between writing fiction versus really writing an autobiography. What was that like for you?

James Patterson 22:17 Um, it was fun. It was great. And, and, uh, uh (laughs) one of the things with the autobiography, I said, "I'm just gonna tell stories." I mention my father growing up in the Newburgh poor house and, you know, that kind of stuff. And that's, that doesn't, I don't get any credit for that, but it's just interesting to me. He was about to go off to the war, and he got this phone call. And this guy said, "You know, my name is George Hazleton. I live in Port Jervis," which is about 20 miles away. He said, "Just bear with me for just a couple of minutes." He said, "Uh, uh, last night, my parents after dinner said, 'George, come on down to the living room. We wanna talk to you.' And they said, 'We love you so much, but you're going a- away to war, and we have to tell you we're not your natural parents, and we adopted you.'" And then over the phone, this George Hazleton said to my father, "I'm your brother." And that's how my father found out he had a brother, which is a pretty stunning story.

Mel Robbins 23:07 Wow.

James Patterson 23:07 They both survived the war. They came back, and after they came back three or four years later, my uncle called up again. He said, "I, I found our father." And, you know, they had never met him in a way that they would remember. He had run off. Uh, he had, he had a terrible, Irish guy, just terrible reputation as kind of a drunk and whatever. And, uh, he said, "He's, he's in Poughkeepsie, and I'm gonna... Let's go up and see him tonight." My father said, "I don't wanna meet the bastard." So my uncle, sh- shy guy, went up by himself, uh, little, crummy little bar under the bridge, uh, Hudson River going over to New Paltz, and, uh, and there's his father. To his knowledge, he's never seen the guy before. And my uncle sits in there for like 20 minutes, he doesn't drink, he orders a Coca-Cola or something, and he watches this guy, his father, who he's never met, and he's so turned off by the guy, he leaves without ever introducing himself to. And until recently, I didn't even know the name of my grandfather. It happened to be Robert, but I didn't know that.And, uh, you know, just stories like that.

Mel Robbins 24:09 Well, that's a big one.

James Patterson 24:09 And that's a three-page... Well, the whole book it's just full of stuff like that, just stories, stories, stories, stories. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 24:15 Wow.

Mel Robbins 24:16 How, how does that story impact you when you think about fatherhood?

James Patterson 24:21 (sighs) My... And this relates to, to The Number One Dad Book.

Mel Robbins 24:24 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 24:25 The only time I remember hugging my father was on his deathbed. (smacks lips) And that says a lot. And, and in therapy, I learned that one of the reasons that I would get angry sometimes was just, it was my father.

Mel Robbins 24:41 Yeah.

James Patterson 24:42 And, and I had to sort of, uh, at times go, "That's not... That, yelling at this cab driver, that's not me. That's just, that's stupid. That's ridiculous. It's, it's irrational. And that's just this, whatever, pent-up anger." Uh, A, A, A-, A, and B, um, uh, don't blame him. He was doing the best he could, and I think he was. And, uh, one of my best friends from college, whatever, I was over his hou- uh, my- Sue and I were having dinner over there and with- th- their two sons both played football, high school football. And after dinner, they, th- the boys were going out the front door, and, uh, and my friend said, "You know, where d- where you guys going?" And, and they stopped, and they came over, and they gave him a hug. And I said, "Yeah, th- there's a life lesson right there." Th- here are these two big football play-... It didn't matter, you know, that they were football players, but he insisted on having a hug. So with our son, Jack, every single night, and to this day, if he comes home, he gets a hug. I, when I came here, I got a hug. I like that.

Mel Robbins 25:43 Yeah, I do, too.

James Patterson 25:43 It's great. And, and not everybody's a hugger. But the book, uh, Number One Dad Book, it, it's about those little... And once again, not lectures or anything, and making it work for, for guys, that hugs are, are, are, are a good thing. And it's a page, but it, but... And it, and the book is just full of all of those thoughts, uh, that can be helpful to guys.

Mel Robbins 26:03 Well, you know, I love that you're writing this. And I also am happy that you shared that story about your own dad and your uncle-

James Patterson 26:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:12 ... and your grandfather. Did your dad ever tell you that he loved you?

James Patterson 26:16 (sighs) Uh, no, not that language.

Mel Robbins 26:20 Did he ever tell you that he was proud of you?

James Patterson 26:23 Yes. Uh, the book, uh, The Book Writing, he always wanted to be a writer. Uh, he wasn't, he was, uh, an insurance salesman. He did the best he could, and he, he, he, he, he made a living f- or helped... My mother was a teacher, between the two of them. Um, they were functioning alcoholics, so that was a, a problem. But, but once again, they did the best they could.

Mel Robbins 26:42 Yeah, and I think one of the things that's really amazing about what you said, because it's a very... You're giving people grace. Nobody can pass on what they weren't given.

James Patterson 26:51 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:52 And when you share the story of what happened in your dad's life and-

James Patterson 26:56 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 26:56 ... the fact that his own father wasn't present-

James Patterson 26:59 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 26:59 ... and it was also a very different time and a different generation-

James Patterson 27:02 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:02 ... that-

James Patterson 27:02 Oh, yeah, yeah. Right.

Mel Robbins 27:03 ... when you can look at your parents through compassionate eyes-

James Patterson 27:09 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 27:09 ... you can understand that you may have deserved something different or wanted something different-

James Patterson 27:13 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 27:13 ... but they could only give you what they had to give.

James Patterson 27:16 Well, you know, these life lessons, and, and so coming to grips with my father, huge. Um, understanding that I wanted to write more than anything and then, uh, that I was gonna do it.

Mel Robbins 27:27 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 27:27 I was with a woman for seven years. She developed a brain tumor, and this was the first love of my life. And it was just one of the, it was just a great relationship. And not just looking back at it, it just was. And everybody who knew us, it was just, a wonderful relationship. She developed a brain tumor. And after she died, and this was also so important to me in terms of, you know, my journey, whatever you want to call it. Um, what I realized after she died was that, uh, one, I understood y- y- you could, you could deal with death in a, in a heroic way, which she did. Unbelievable, just the way she dealt with... She would, you know, she never wanted her friends to get bummed out. They would come. She'd be wearing a funny hat or something, just she didn't want them to get bummed out.

Mel Robbins 28:13 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 28:13 Just that her, her spirit was unbelievable. But I also realized, and this was so important for me in terms of maintaining a certain balance in my life and stability and being able to live inside my own, my own shoes, is that I understood that, one, I could love someone in a significant way, love, love, love, love somebody, and also that I was lovable, which is huge, huge. And I think it's particularly huge for guys, the idea that n- n- for, get past the, the, the mask and the phoniness or whatever, that you, this person, this core guy-

Mel Robbins 28:52 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 28:52 ... is actually lovable. And if we could get more guys to that place, they would have better lives.

Mel Robbins 29:00 Did you not feel lovable as a kid based on how your dad treated you?

James Patterson 29:04 (sighs) I don't think it was based, uh, necessarily on, on top... Uh, I, I, I don't think it was just my dad. I, I believe that the only reason that they... Uh, I'm gonna overstate this, that as long as I was top of my class that I, I was okay. So that was, that, the, the, that was whatever love I was getting, whatever, that it was because of that.

Mel Robbins 29:26 I think a lot of men and young men feel that way, that as long as-

James Patterson 29:30 But I think a lot of women do, too.

Mel Robbins 29:30 Yes.

James Patterson 29:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 29:31 But men in particular, "As long as I'm providing-"

James Patterson 29:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 29:33 "... as long as I'm performing-"

James Patterson 29:34 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 29:34 "... as long as I'm working, as long as I'm doing something out there-"

James Patterson 29:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 29:38 "... that's the worth."

James Patterson 29:39 And, and that's going away for a lot of them now, so they have to adjust.

Mel Robbins 29:42 Yes.

James Patterson 29:42 Which is one of the reasons why, uh, in, in terms of, of, of this book, The Number One Dad Book, uh, uh, you know, my realization that, um, so many guys out there are lost, overwhelmed. They're no longer the breadwinner or whatever they thought they're gonna be or the warrior or whatever's built up in, you know, their brains over centuries, uh, that it's all changing. Uh, they are, they are lost and they, and, and a lot of them are angry, and to help-... to help them. So she did a little bit of research and we reached out and talked to about 4,000 people, which is double what Quinnipiac does-

Mel Robbins 30:19 For this book.

James Patterson 30:19 Yeah. Well, just a couple of questions, and one of them was, and this is a really interesting one to me, uh, could you be a better dad? And 89% of the, the dads said yes, they could be better dads. That was fascinating to me.

Mel Robbins 30:34 I love this book, the number one dad book, Be The Best Dad You Can Be In An Hour. And one of the things that I love about this is you consistently put the focus on being a better father-

James Patterson 30:48 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 30:49 ... not a perfect one.

James Patterson 30:50 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 30:50 Why, why is that important?

James Patterson 30:51 Perfect doesn't work, perfect d- for me. I mentioned a little earlier about e- even when I was in high school and all the way through, people would always come to me and say, "What do you think about this? What do you think about this? Would this girl like me?" Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then as I got older, a lot of my friends and relatives, they would have, you know, younger males come and, you know, what, "Uncle Jim," or, you know, Jim, or whatever, "What do you think about this?" And in talking to so many of these guys, I began to get a feeling for, once again, this lost in space kind of thing-

Mel Robbins 31:23 Mm.

James Patterson 31:23 ... that these guys are feeling and, "Who am I and what's my purpose and what's the point?" And, and then getting lost in sort of frivolous stuff, like cars or, I mean, cars are fine, but I mean, you're just really getting over, e- 'cause they have nothing else that meant something in their life. And that's, that was a big thing in terms of what, why I wanted to do this book, and the notion of being able to help people some, help people some. And, and, and in this case, it's huge, because if you help these dads who are lost somewhat, uh, uh, you're gonna help the kids, you're gonna help the partners. And I purposely did the one hour, because a lot of guys will not read the 400-page book. So what, and one of my gifts is to be able to compress information.

Mel Robbins 32:05 Well, you know what else I love about this? Because this is, by the way, James, going to be my number one gift to every new father. What I love about this is I could put this in a bathroom. I could put this in a bedroom. I can pick it up and I can read any chapter out of order-

James Patterson 32:22 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:22 ... or any little essay, and I want to read one of them. Um, I'm reading on page 65, and there are these short, beautiful vignettes, and one of the lessons is, "Your presence is required."

James Patterson 32:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 32:33 And you were just talking about how so many men and dads are feeling lost or they're focused on the wrong things or they're distracted-

James Patterson 32:42 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 32:42 ... and so here's one of the essays.

James Patterson 32:44 Focused on the wrong things is, is beautiful. I mean, uh, uh, it's not in the book, but your words, that's, that's exactly right.

Mel Robbins 32:50 "Here's one of my trade secrets. When I'm writing a novel, I sometimes scrawl a note to myself at the top of the page. It says, 'Be there.' It reminds me that I need to put the reader in the scene so that they'll really feel it. The same goes for being a dad. Let's be honest. There's lots of distractions in life, the internet, Zoom calls with in-laws, night shifts, Netflix, the NFL draft. There will be times when you can only give your kids part of your attention. But whenever you can, as much as you can, focus. It's not just being around, although that's a big part of it. It's paying attention, setting other thoughts aside, and really being present. There are some woo-woo terms for this, intention, mindfulness, but what it comes down to is this. When you're with your kids, be there. Have you ever seen little kids on a school stage lighting up when they spot their parents in the audience? It's like they're witnessing a miracle. Now you're the miracle. You might not be able to be at every recital, every birthday party, and every game, but be at as many as you can. It matters. Sure, someone else can shoot video of a game or a birthday, but it's only live once. Years later, your kids will not remember what song they sang, what flavor cake they had, or whether they won or lost that third match of the season, but they'll remember if you were there."

James Patterson 34:11 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's a personal one for me, because, uh, somewhere in the book I say something to the effect of, "Had I done this research, had I thought about it, I, I could have been a better dad." I could have been. And, and one of the things would be literally be there. I was there in the sense that I worked at home and I, you know, I was with, around Jack a lot, but I could have been more intensely present than I was at times. So I was, I would be distracted present at times. And, and so, and that would have been better.

Mel Robbins 34:41 How did becoming a father later in life really change you?

James Patterson 34:46 Well, um, one of the advantages that Sue and I had is that we didn't have financial problems, and that's, uh, that's just, that takes something, th- uh, baggage out of the way, which is huge. So, so we didn't have that. We were both totally prepared for it. We were more mature, obviously. Um, I, um, you know, the thing of it was, is that Jane and I, uh, the, the woman I was with originally, uh, who died, uh, we would have been married and had, you know, it just didn't... And then I, I, took me a long time to get past that, but I always wanted to have kids. Uh, and then when I got together with Sue, uh, uh, she wanted to have, uh, you know, kids as well. And we got, you know, she, when I, um, I think I was 49 when we got married. I think she was 39. Uh, uh, Sue is interesting too. My joke line about Sue is, if Sue ever leaves me, I'm going with her. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 35:46 (laughs)

James Patterson 35:46 But the, but the real-

Mel Robbins 35:47 (laughs)

James Patterson 35:47 ... the real, the real story is, every once in a while, uh, there are a couple hours where I can't stand her, but there's never a day goes by that I'm not in love with her. And that's true.

Mel Robbins 35:58 Mm.

James Patterson 35:58 And, and we, uh, pretty much every night hold hands f- when we go to sleep.

Mel Robbins 36:03 Hmm.

James Patterson 36:03 Which is, which is a-- not everybody can do that. But, but, uh, that's-- I think it's nice if you can, if you can do it.

Mel Robbins 36:09 Well, Chris and I typ-

James Patterson 36:09 As I said, I've been very lucky about a lot of things.

Mel Robbins 36:12 Chris-

James Patterson 36:12 And one of them is finding Sue.

Mel Robbins 36:13 Chris and I typically start out that way, but then-

James Patterson 36:15 Uh-huh.

Mel Robbins 36:15 ... I get so hot-

James Patterson 36:16 Well, there's a certain point-

Mel Robbins 36:18 ... and he's like, "I have to let your hand go."

James Patterson 36:18 Well, I don't wanna hear about the hot part, but you know.

Mel Robbins 36:21 (laughs)

James Patterson 36:22 (laughs)

Mel Robbins 36:22 Well, you know, women in their 50s have a problem with heat regulation. Um, there are just so many e- beautiful, beautiful essays in here. I, I wanna... I, I would like for you to read this one. This is on page 101.

James Patterson 36:36 Guys, (laughs) guys, let's face it. We screw up a lot. I know I do, sometimes royally. But here's the silver lining. That means we can be really, really good at teaching kids about resilience and how to confront challenges and deal with mistakes and own them, which I think is huge. Life isn't always fair. I love this section, by the way. Not 'cause I wrote it, 'cause I just think there's truth here. Life isn't always fair. You already know that. But it's important that your kids learn it too. You don't have to be overly negative or pessimistic, just realistic. Muhammad Ali used to say, "There's nothing wrong with getting knocked down as long as you get right back up." Don't be afraid to discuss tough topics with your kids. They can take it. Help them make good decisions. Get them ready for the real world, which is one of our biggest as parents. I mean, that's... if there was one thing, that's it, get them ready for the real world. It's not getting any easier out there, which I think you know. To be honest, it seems to be getting harder every year. You don't need to scare them, just prepare them.

Mel Robbins 37:48 How did you prepare Jack?

James Patterson 37:50 Um, well, I think a, a lot of it is, is, is, is teaching him to sort of be responsible for his own actions, uh, to be comfortable in his own skin. I think that's huge if you can, if you can help kids to, to be, to... you know, the things that you love to do, being goofy, he was very goofy. Okay, that's okay, you can be goofy. Be careful of it in school, overdoing it in school. And, and in his situation, and, and, um, I don't know how this relates to your kids, but, um, yeah, people know your dad and your mom was a big swimmer and whatever, but don't worry about it. It's all fine. Uh, uh, accept it within reason, uh, and then... and just move on. And, and one of the things in going to a pretty good prep school and then a, a good college, he had a lot of kids who ca-... you know, their parents were well-known or had, had done something famous or whatever. And, and all his friends were cool. None of them, they... all of them had this thing, "I didn't do anything. I, I had... there's no reason for me to be..." And I think that's really good. And occasionally you'd meet... e- every once in a while there'd be one who'd go, "Well, do you know who my dad is? Blah, blah, blah." You know, who cares? I mean, that, uh, I mean, that's cruel too, but, uh, well, we try not to do that. It's like, be comfortable with who we are hopefully, uh, uh, but, um, uh, you know, d- don't let it get in the way.

Mel Robbins 39:11 You know, I reached out to Jack.

James Patterson 39:13 Oh, oh, really? Okay, uh-

Mel Robbins 39:14 Yes, um, and I have-

James Patterson 39:15 Oh, well, that little creep didn't tell me.

Mel Robbins 39:18 (laughs) And-

James Patterson 39:19 And I thought I could trust him.

Mel Robbins 39:20 (laughs) I'm very persuasive. And, uh, I have something to play for you.

James Patterson 39:27 Oh, okay.

Jack Patterson 39:28 Hi, Dad. Surprise. Um, and hi, Mel. Um, so, Mel wanted me to share a bit about the impact that you've had on my life. Your strength as a parent, at least from my perspective, was helping me confidently be my own person. You know, I, I, I sometimes felt like I found myself completely trapped in the shadow of my dad, um, and that can be, you know, a little disempowering. You know, someone goes, "Oh, well, you know, that's so-and-so's kid," or they even... sometimes they would call me James, right? My name's Jack. James isn't even my legal name. Um, you know, someone just seeing you as the son or daughter of insert person here. Um, that may seem innocuous, but I think it really can eat at you. And so, you know, for me, as someone who kind of aimed for the moon, um, and seems to, you know, maybe not be landing on the moon, but at least getting somewhere, um, I sort of developed an obsession with overachieving so much that I could kind of prove to this, like, imaginary composite person, um, taking up real estate in my mind that, you know, "No way, full stop, it's, it's, it's me, it's not him." Um, and I think your best quality as a parent, Dad, at least for me, was encouraging me when possible not to think that way, you know, not holding your success over my head as much as possible, not falling into the trap of being the successful person, um, who, who made my childhood into a pressure cooker. So, uh, good job.

Mel Robbins 41:18 He's funny.

James Patterson 41:19 He's, he, he's... see what a good writer he could have been too. He's a really good writer. He has no interest in it, which I get. Uh, but he's, he's a really, really good writer and, and, uh, and very funny. He could have been a comedian. He's very... he wasn't being funny here, but he can be hilarious. But anyway, oh, that, that, that's great. That's great. I'm, I'm glad that he (laughs) glad he liked something that I did. Excellent.

Mel Robbins 41:40 I think he liked more than just something.

James Patterson 41:42 Well, you know, here's the thing about Jack. Jack calls three or four times a week-

Mel Robbins 41:45 Hmm.

James Patterson 41:46 ... which is nice. And, uh, you know, so, so... I mean, he wants to talk to Sue more than me, but he talks to both of us, you know, so it's, uh... that's a rewarding thing.

Mel Robbins 41:54 Well, he's clearly a very mature and very self-aware guy.

James Patterson 41:58 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 41:58 And it's clear in the way that he described his experience-

James Patterson 42:03 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:03 ... that he was aware of the pressure he's putting on himself.

James Patterson 42:06 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 42:06 And the...... compliment that he clearly gave you is that you didn't do that to him.

James Patterson 42:12 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:13 So, if the person who's listening really relates to your story, 'cause they're like, "Well, I didn't have a really good example either-"

James Patterson 42:19 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 42:19 Like, one of the things that I get from you and reading your book is that even if it wasn't modeled for you, you have the ability to actually change how you show up and be a different kind of dad.

James Patterson 42:33 Mm-hmm. Well, I think we all do on some level. Uh, you just have to commit to it. Um, you know, with, with Let Them, you have that one piece, which I, which I love. I just, it, it actually, uh, uh, a small piece of it, and, and actually something I talked to, with President Clinton about, this notion of don't, let's not waste our life or our time worrying about stuff we can't do anything about.

Mel Robbins 42:59 Hmm.

James Patterson 43:00 And if we can do something, let's do it.

Mel Robbins 43:03 Which fictional character that you've created and written about has had the biggest impact on-

James Patterson 43:08 Alex Cross.

Mel Robbins 43:09 ... on the way that you think about fatherhood?

James Patterson 43:11 Yeah. Yeah. A- a- a- uh, actually, uh, Cross, Michael Bennett, who, who has this big family, uh, uh, and, and, uh, I, I like doing stories where you go like, "Well, gee, that would never h-" Like, Michael Bennett has like nine or 10 kids, and you go like, "What?" You know? But I love it, the, the, the fact that it is so outrageous and then making it work. But in both cases, what those stories are about on some level is balancing your work life with your, with your home life.

Mel Robbins 43:43 Hmm.

James Patterson 43:43 That's what Alex does. And, and, you know, in the series, uh, that's on, uh, uh, Prime Video with, with Alex, we have Aldis Hodge, who has this real intense look. So, when he's out there as a cop, you really feel that, and at home, and he's a new father as a, as a human being, but in the story, he's great with the kids. And that balance, and, uh, which I think is, is huge, there's a thing in the book about the, the, the five balls, uh, uh, which is a great little story that's, I think, it was very useful for me anyway, which is, uh, if you think of, of, of life as you're, you're juggling these five balls, and they're, it's family and health and, um, I'll lose track of some of them, spirits, which is sort of soul, work is one. And if you drop family, if you drop work, it's a rubber ball and it bounces. If you drop one of the others, family or health along the way, uh, it's not rubber, and, and, and it gets scuffed or it might even shatter. I think for most of us, and this relates to this book as well in terms of why I think it's useful for people, at the end of the day when we're looking back at our lives, it's gonna be more how we raised our family-

Mel Robbins 44:56 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 44:56 ... in terms of the most important job you're ever gonna have is as a mom and a dad. It's gonna be more important than whatever that you ever did, than being, selling insurance or being an accountant or whatever. I mean, uh, uh, and, and to realize that a little bit and have that drive you, and it helps you to put up with some of the stuff you have to put up with, and you realize just, you know, that that's, that's probably the most important thing that we do.

Mel Robbins 45:18 That's a really profound thing to hear you say because I think from the outside, somebody would look at the body of work and the impact that you've made having sold more than 400 million books-

James Patterson 45:31 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 45:31 ... and the series and movies and the way that these stories have transported and inspired and-

James Patterson 45:37 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 45:37 ... like really enriched people's lives, and they would probably think that for you, it would be that artistry and that body of work.

James Patterson 45:46 Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting, Mel, that I don't, I, I don't look at that stuff as being all that impressive or anything.

Mel Robbins 45:53 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 45:53 It just, there it is. I, I, I interviewed Peggy Noonan, uh, uh, about a week or so ago, and both she and I, we tend to be looking forward rather than backward. I do, I just don't, you know, people go, "Do you have regrets?" I don't really think about regrets much. I'm sure I do, but I, it's mainly, okay, what's, what, what's next? What are we gonna do next? So, the thing about selling all the books and all that, I, I, I, I mean, I'm, I'm happy. (laughs) You know, it, it's, it's helped me to live a good life, and in particular the being able to do what I love to do.

Mel Robbins 46:26 So, one of the things that you've talked about is the importance to you and your wife Sue to really support literacy.

James Patterson 46:33 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 46:34 And one of the essays is about reading. Read to your kids. I'm on page 45. "You read. It doesn't take much time to make a big difference. Reading to your kids helps boost their brain power. It gives them new worlds and new ways of putting them together." Talk more about why this is so important as a dad to read to your kids.

James Patterson 46:53 (sighs) Uh, if it works, and, and one of the things that I say in the book, which I think is useful, is there's gonna be certain things in here you're not gonna be able to do or you're not gonna agree with, and it doesn't matter. The important thing here is at the end of this book, uh, and I think this is gonna be true for every dad out there pretty much, uh, I'm gonna guess at that anyway, if you read the book and you keep your mind open, you're gonna pick up two or three or four things that are gonna make you better at what you're doing, and, and you'll be happier about it. You'll be more fulfilled. Uh, so I don't, you know, the reading to the k- I think it's really useful. It's not for everybody, uh, 'cause some people, they just, it's just not their thing, and that's okay. But I do think, uh, and in particular, and there were studies about this, that i- if you have books, if you read to your kids, if you talk to your kids a lot, uh, uh, their, their vocabularies are just gonna increase dramatically, so that when they get to kindergarten or first grade, they'll be so ahead of the pack. One of the things that, that, that I've been working on with University of Florida for now five or six years, the percentage of kids reading at grade level in this country is like 43%, which is a disgrace.

Mel Robbins 48:00 Disgraceful.

James Patterson 48:00 When I was growing up, small town, uh, uh, little Catholic school, everybody in our, in our class could read. Everybody could read. Everybody.What, what, what the hell is going on? This is insanity. So we've adopted ways of teaching kids to read that don't work. And, and it's true in, in pretty much every state. Massachusetts very... The percentage here is under 50%. That's ridiculous. It's insane. All right, University of Florida has this program. They can get it up into the 80s. And it's just... So it's now in, I think, 13 counties in Florida. Canada picked it up like crazy. W- we're making a little documentary about it, and, uh, and I- I visited some schools. And you sit in these classes, uh, you could fake it for 10 minutes, but I'll sit for like an hour, and these kids are so turned on by this program. A lot of it is going back to ph- to phonics and stuff, and, and the kids are so... They love it, it's fun, they're excited, and the scores just go up, up, up, up, up. Even some of these schools where the percentage of kids reading at grade level is like 10%, all of a sudden it's up into the 50s and 60s. And that... One of the things that I'll talk about when I go out and talk to teachers and librarians or whatever, I'm here to save lives. And, and I'm not... I don't mean I am, but the program is.

Mel Robbins 49:17 What is your most favorite essay in this book? Do you have one?

James Patterson 49:21 Uh, n- no, I don't think so. What I try to do at the end is, is, is, uh, to help people, like, "Here's... Here are some of the things, in case you're forgetting." I encourage them to go through and, and cross out stuff, or star stuff that they like, and you know...

Mel Robbins 49:34 Yes. You have, you have some re- you have a really, really great thing at the end. "If just two, or three, or five of these ideas work for you, you'll be a better dad."

James Patterson 49:43 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 49:44 And that's one hour very well spent. Be consistently fair. Trust really is built on consistency, and trust is everything.

James Patterson 49:52 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 49:53 What is it important to be consistent about?

James Patterson 49:57 Uh, the trust is everything is a real thing. You just need... If your kids trust you, if you trust them, within reason (laughs) ...

Mel Robbins 50:06 (laughs)

James Patterson 50:06 Uh, that's, that's huge. That, that will last... You, you, they will... You will always have a, a relationship with them. A good relationship. Uh, consistency. I- if you think about sports, I don't know how much different people, but if, if, if, if the refs aren't consistent in a football game-

Mel Robbins 50:25 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 50:26 If they're like, "Oh, sometimes they play it close, sometimes we'll let it... Give them a lot of room," it... The game doesn't work. And that consistency, like here's kind of within reason the way we operate. And, and, you know, and if the kids go, "That's just not fair," you need to listen to them a little bit. And, and, and sometimes... Obviously, you know, we're having a bad day and we, we, we're not gonna be consistent that day or we, you know, we shoot our mouth off more than we should. And there... I mean, and there are things in there about, you know, trying... I know this isn't totally possible, but try not to have arguments in front of the kids, especially heated ones. Especially if it's about them. Take it outside. We talk about that... Doing that, uh, uh, which is, which is, which is really important. Uh, talk about things like (laughs) being able... Guys being able to say, "I was wrong."

Mel Robbins 51:16 This is an important one.

James Patterson 51:17 Well, and the fi- (laughs) and the line I throw in there, you know, once again... I try to keep it semi-humorous because you want the, the guys to sort of, you know, not think they're getting preached to. And, and I'm not preaching, I'm just throwing stuff, but, "I was wrong." And then I said, "Just in case it ever happens."

Mel Robbins 51:31 (laughs) .

James Patterson 51:31 Uh, uh, which is, which is... Yes, it is important because a lot of guys think that if they, if they... If they admit they were wrong that somehow it lessens them as a human, as a guy, as a... No, I was wrong.

Mel Robbins 51:45 And this is why this book is so important. It's why I'm going to buy it for every single new dad that I know, is because I think that you get just caught up in the day-to-day and in your emotions-

James Patterson 51:59 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:00 ... and being tired-

James Patterson 52:01 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:01 ... and just the grind of it all-

James Patterson 52:03 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:03 ... that it's easy to forget the things that you know deep down are true.

James Patterson 52:07 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:08 You know what I think about this book? I think people are gonna read it in an hour and they're gonna get a tremendous amount out of it, but I think it's one of these books that stays with you and that you keep on your desk.

James Patterson 52:18 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:18 And if you were to just pick this up once a day or a couple times a week and you read one two-page essay-

James Patterson 52:25 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:26 ... it's almost like walking into a church and hearing the sermon that you needed to hear.

James Patterson 52:30 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:30 It just gives you a grounding point to-

James Patterson 52:35 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:35 ... have you focus on one thing-

James Patterson 52:38 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 52:39 ... that will make you a better dad-

James Patterson 52:41 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 52:41 ... and a better person.

James Patterson 52:42 Y- you know this, Mel, and it's, it's obvious in, in everything that you do. I- if you want to move forward, if you wanna be better, if you want to eliminate certain things from your life, you must form habits. It has to be habits.

Mel Robbins 53:01 Um, you know, Jack had a question for you.

James Patterson 53:04 Okay.

Mel Robbins 53:04 And so I'd love-

James Patterson 53:05 Yikes. (laughs)

Mel Robbins 53:05 ... to play this question. You guys clearly have a very playful relationship.

James Patterson 53:10 He's very funny. He's very funny.

Mel Robbins 53:12 So I'm gonna play the video for you.

James Patterson 53:13 Be gentle, Jack. (laughs) .

Mel Robbins 53:16 (laughs) .

Jack Patterson 53:16 So my question to you is: looking back, if you could do it over again, you know, what would you have done differently, um, and what do you think your shortcomings were?

James Patterson 53:32 Yeah, I think, uh, you know, a piece of it is, is, is to be there better. To be there... To be... I, I, I tend to be distracted.

Jack Patterson 53:40 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 53:40 I tend to... I'm creative. I'm always thinking of something else when I'm... You know, whatever. So being there more for him would've been huge, and then agreeing to more... Sue's very... She lo- she'll travel anywhere. They go to Iceland together. I, I should have done more of the trips with them. I have a little... Just personally, like we go to Florence and after two days I've seen enough, so I just... Jack will... He'll go... He can go for a week. "Let's go to another church, let's go..." He loves that kind of stuff. So I should have, I should have been better at that kind of thing, I think. That would have been helpful. That would have bo- A little bit better bonding, you know, would have come out of that, for sure.

Mel Robbins 54:19 So, you said, you talked earlier about preparing your child for the world we live in, and the world certainly-

James Patterson 54:25 Mm.

Mel Robbins 54:25 ... is changing.

James Patterson 54:26 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 54:27 Where do you even begin as a parent?

James Patterson 54:29 I have a, a, a nonfiction book coming out at the end of the year, Disrupt Everything.

Mel Robbins 54:35 Really?

James Patterson 54:36 And it has to do with this age of disruption we're in now, which is just insanity. And I don't just mean what's going on with the government, just in general. There's so much. I mean, uh, disease, weather, uh, uh, college, uh, uh, sports. Everything you look at, it's all just changing and if we don't... And a lot of it is, is, uh, from our points of view becomes negative.

Mel Robbins 55:02 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 55:02 Uh, uh, our b- our work, our business. People are getting fired. It's, it's a very tough situation, and if we don't learn to disrupt positively, uh, it- it- it's gonna be very hard for people. So this, this, that book is about disrupting positively.

Mel Robbins 55:18 Is there anything that you would love to see dads disrupt in terms of the old model of fatherhood?

James Patterson 55:26 I, once again, that's why, and I, I wish I had one thing.

Mel Robbins 55:30 Yep.

James Patterson 55:30 But there's so many of these things about trust, uh, about listening.

Mel Robbins 55:34 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 55:34 Listening is huge. You know, listening. Uh, uh, a lot of dads, a lot of people in general, they, they don't listen. Uh, telling, telling kids your story, listening to their story, uh, to the kids' story. Uh, uh, getting them comfortable walking in their own shoes. Getting them comfortable f- helping them to figure out what the core of them is, and that that core is not, "Yeah, I know you got the acne and that really is irritating, but that's not who you are. Don't worry about that. That's, uh, we get it and it's, we've, we've had acne." "You don't understand." "Well, uh, you're right. I don't entirely understand." Or, or the clothes. "Clothes are okay, but that's not who you are. That's not who you are. Who is that? What's that core, what's that core, Jack? Our Jack." That was always the thing of what is that? You know, okay, the shoes, but the shoes, th- th- they won't matter that much. I know you have a thing in general about people, which I agree with. You know, stop buying stupid stuff. Try not to. You know, sometimes, you know, that's not really the way... All right, maybe it is the way to make you feel better temporarily, but just be a little mindful of that.

Mel Robbins 56:40 Well, you know what I heard in Jack's, uh, acknowledgement of you, is that the thing that you did really well is that you did teach him that he is himself at his core.

James Patterson 56:52 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 56:53 He's not just your son.

James Patterson 56:54 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 56:55 That-

James Patterson 56:55 Oh, it's huge.

Mel Robbins 56:55 And you did a good job at that.

James Patterson 56:56 It's huge.

Mel Robbins 56:56 Can you, did you, were you able to hear that acknowledgement?

James Patterson 56:58 Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. And- and it was, that was probably the thing that Sue and I concentrated on the most, just making him comfortable being Jack.

Mel Robbins 57:09 Mm.

James Patterson 57:09 Understanding who Jack is right now, and that could change, uh, who he was when he was 12, who, you know, uh, and just be comfortable with that.

Mel Robbins 57:18 One of the things that I also love about your book, James, is that it's not just for dads.

James Patterson 57:24 Mm.

Mel Robbins 57:24 So on page 145, you have an essay, You're Not A Dad And That's 100% Okay. "What about the guys who aren't dads? Whether by choice or by circumstances, being a dad isn't for everyone."

James Patterson 57:36 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 57:36 "Maybe you wanted children but you weren't in the right relationship at the right time. Maybe you have a medical history that makes having kids challenging or not possible. Maybe you just don't really want to spend all that time with rug rats."

James Patterson 57:48 And the thing I don't put in there is maybe you can't find a partner.

Mel Robbins 57:51 Yes.

James Patterson 57:52 Which is true for a lot of males now.

Mel Robbins 57:54 Yeah.

James Patterson 57:54 And, and women.

Mel Robbins 57:55 Yeah. And, you know, you talk about the fact, "But chances are there are still plenty of 'dad opportunities' for you. You care about the world, its future, and the kids growing up in it. Those kids may not be your own sons and daughters, but they need your help. Everybody needs somebody who believes in them, shows them how to get to where they're going, makes them feel seen and heard." You know, you offer up, like, some suggestions here. Again, another thing I love about this book. It's not just essays that make you think. It's essays that encourage you to do.

James Patterson 58:26 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 58:26 Be a mentor. You work hard at your job. You've learned a lot about life. Don't keep it to yourself.

James Patterson 58:31 Yeah.

Mel Robbins 58:31 That's a way that you can apply the lessons of this book. Be a coach. If you love sports, you played sports, you know sports, everyone remembers their favorite coach, be that guy. Be an uncle. If you have a brother or sister with kids, you've got a potentially terrific role to play with your nieces and nephews, and one day when you have kids, you can be their favorite... Oh, wait. (laughs) That's right. You're talking about nieces and nephews, and that you can play catch, play Minecraft. Find the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle but let them put it in.

James Patterson 59:01 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 59:01 Oh, I love that.

James Patterson 59:02 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 59:03 Let them put in the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle.

James Patterson 59:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, part of it is, once again, it's just going to the next step, uh, uh, in, in, in whatever the heck it is that you're doing. There- there's also a chapter in there about grandparents, which is another important thing. Grandfathers, grandmothers-

Mel Robbins 59:21 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 59:21 ... are really important to, to families. And sometimes, you know, the relationships with the grandparents might not be so good with- with- from the- from the father's point of view or the mother's point of view, but do your best to let them in anyway.

Mel Robbins 59:37 Yes.

James Patterson 59:37 Because they might not be the same people they were when you were growing up.

Mel Robbins 59:40 Mm.

James Patterson 59:41 They might be kind or gentler, whatever the heck it is, and it's useful for, um, the kids to, to hear their experiences. They're gonna, uh, they- they'll know things about the family that, that you might not remember or whatever.

Mel Robbins 59:53 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 59:53 More of the DNA of the family, uh, and all that stuff is, is, is useful for the, for the kids.

Mel Robbins 59:58 (laughs)

James Patterson 59:58 And a lot of it has to do with the kids, and- and I say, uh, uh, one, you know, just such an important thing about this is this is not the book about perfect. This is a book about getting better, 'cause perfect doesn't work.

Mel Robbins 1:00:10 So, to the person that's listening right now who's just in the thick of it, I mean, you know, there's Legos-

James Patterson 1:00:15 Mm.

Mel Robbins 1:00:15 ... all over the floor and diapers to change.

James Patterson 1:00:17 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:17 It's in that messy stage of life.

James Patterson 1:00:19 We talk about diapers. We talk about s- to think, you know, and- and- and for the guy to get in there and- and do it. Hold your nose and- and, uh, clean up. There- there's a funny chapter about diaper- diaper changing, yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:28 Very funny, but there's also something more poignant.Which is about how quickly this all goes.

James Patterson 1:00:35 Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mel Robbins 1:00:35 And so what do you want to tell the person that's listening-

James Patterson 1:00:38 Well, you know, the thing of it is, it- it- as difficult as it- as some of the days may be, you know, 20 years from now, 15 years from now, y- y- you'd give a million dollars to have that experience back again.

Mel Robbins 1:00:49 Mm-hmm.

James Patterson 1:00:50 Which- which I think is mostly true. Uh, and- and- and part of it is, it just helped me get through the day. That's always a- and- and if you're getting better, if things are improving, that always helps, you know, the idea that today's better than yesterday in some way. E- even- even if- if- if a lot of stuff isn't working that well, that's- that's

James Patterson 1:01:10 useful.

Mel Robbins 1:01:10 You know, one of the things that, uh, you know, I- I think a lot about in terms of the topic of advice is that I personally believe that you are best equipped to help the person you used to be.

James Patterson 1:01:22 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:01:23 And that if you are open as you are and you go through life with an open mind and an open heart, you can learn something from absolutely everybody that you meet.

James Patterson 1:01:34 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:01:35 And so p- I think what you've achieved in The #1 DadBook, honestly, 'cause you keep saying, "I didn't boil it down to one thing," I think you actually did. I think you created not only something that you can read in an hour, but I think you created a lifeline for somebody to just open up-

James Patterson 1:01:54 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:01:55 ... and be able to be reminded of the power that you have to do just a little better today.

James Patterson 1:02:02 Mm-hmm.

Mel Robbins 1:02:03 And every single one of the essays that you've written will help you do it.

James Patterson 1:02:06 Yeah. Well, that's very kind of you and touching and, um, uh, a- a- and- and- and I think there's some truth there. And- and as I said, it is that thing about- boy, I- I, uh, I love the notio- the idea that tomorrow I can be a little better at something.

Mel Robbins 1:02:21 Yes. So my favorite essay is the one you wrote on page 95, and I would love to have you read it.

James Patterson 1:02:27 Sure. "Kids benefit from seeing their parents respecting each other and being affectionate with each other. A little parental PDA can show them what a healthy, loving relationship looks like, so let them see you holding hands, let them see you hug, let them see you kiss, let them hear you say, 'I love you,'" which I think is monstrously important if people can do it. "'If you do it often enough, they'll learn not to chirp, 'Ew,' (laughs) every time they see you hugging or kissing or whatever. Now, some dads will say, 'I'm not an I love you kind of guy.' Says who? Who passed that law? Your dad? Your dad's dad? You can be an I love you guy. You can change at least a little. You'll be a better man for it. Saying I love you is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of strength. Now go ahead, say I love you. Was that so hard? If it was, say it again. Okay, I'll say it. I love you, man."

Mel Robbins 1:03:41 I love you, James Patterson.

James Patterson 1:03:42 Oh, thank you. (laughs) I love you, too.

Mel Robbins 1:03:44 You're really awesome.

James Patterson 1:03:44 Uh, I- this is fun. This is nice. Uh, this is actually, in some ways, the nicest experience I've had of this sort since hanging out with Dolly Parton.

Mel Robbins 1:03:54 Well, I've loved every minute of getting to meet you, of getting to sit down and learn from you. You are delightful. You are so caring. And I'm gonna reflect this back to you. You are such a caring, curious, smart, and loving guy. Thank you, James, and thank you. Thank you for being here with me and James Patterson. And I know James already told you that he loves you, man, but I wanted to be sure that I told you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to create a better life. And there were so many amazing moments and nuggets and pieces of wisdom that James shared with you and me today that I am certain that this conversation will help you and the people that you share this with do exactly that. All righty. I will see you in the very next episode. I'll be waiting to welcome you in the moment you hit play. I'll see you there. You're definitely gonna love this one, and I'm gonna be waiting to welcome you into it the moment you hit play. I'll see you there.