Skip to content
The Mel Robbins PodcastThe Mel Robbins Podcast

Why You’re Broke: 5 Rules to Finally Take Control of Your Money

Order your copy of The Let Them Theory 👉 https://melrob.co/let-them-theory 👈 The #1 Best Selling Book of 2025 🔥 Discover how much power you truly have. It all begins with two simple words. Let Them. — In this episode, you’re going to learn the 5 rules of money. Whether you want to build credit, pay off debt, increase your income, or have more money in the bank, this episode is a must-listen. It will surprise you. It will move you. And it will help you live a richer life. Tiffany Aliche (@Thebudgetnistablog is THE money expert. Known as The Budgetnista, she is a New York Times bestselling author who has helped 2 million people just like you save, manage, and pay off massive debt. This is not your usual “make-a-budget-and-stick-to-it” advice. Tiffany’s take on $$ will help you see your money in a completely different way so that you understand how to make more of it and save it with ease. After you listen, you’ll have THE 5 money skills you need to gain financial freedom. For more resources, including links to Tiffany’s book, the links Mel mentions, and Tiffany’s social media platforms, click here for the podcast episode page: https://www.melrobbins.com/podcasts/episode-153 Follow Tiffany Aliche on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebudgetnista Follow The Mel Robbins Podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/themelrobbinspodcast I’m just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I’ll see you in the next episode. In this episode: 00:00: Intro 03:30: This is how Mel handles her money. Can you relate? 08:00: How Mel helped her family start getting out of debt. 08:50: Mel’s #1 rule about money after having been bankrupt. 09:15: How Mel passed her relationship to $$ down to her daughters. 14:45: How to incentivize your kids to turn out the lights. 18:10: The first and second BIG financial mistakes Tiffany made. 23:10: After the recession hit, things got even worse for Tiffany. 25:45: What to do when you feel shame about your finances. 29:05: Here’s how to prioritize your bills if finances are limited. 29:55: Why is it so hard to open your bills? 33:15: The #1 Rule of Money. 34:35: Reframe your 5-step budget plan so it’s doable! 39:30: What concerns Mel about how easy it is to buy stuff today. 42:00: Put your money into these 4 buckets automatically. 45:20: How do you know if an online bank is legit? 48:20: What percentage of your income should be for living expenses? 51:22: Rule #2 of Tiffany’s Money Strategy: how to manage debt. 53:40: Use the Snowball Method to pay down your bills. 55:08: Or use the Avalanche Method to hit highest interest rates. 55:30: The Tsunami Method is best when one particular debt causes stress. 56:30: Rule #3: How do you save when you’re just making ends meet? 58:15: Use “dreamscaping” to motivate yourself when debt gets you down. 1:01:00: Do this so that you don’t go debt-free alone. 1:03:18: The 4 questions to ask yourself before you spend. 1:06:20: How much money should be in savings before you start losing? 1:08:25: Rule #4: How do you improve your credit score? 1:10:33: The 3 ways to boost your credit score quickly. 1:14:35: What to do before you ask your boss for a raise. 1:17:45: How to value yourself when you own a small business. 1:18:15: Tiffany’s favorite side hustles and advice to earn extra $$. 1:21:55: The tragic event that made Tiffany realize what’s most important. #money #success #makemoremoney #moneytips #budgeting #savemoney #podcast #financetips — Follow Mel: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melrobbins/ TikTok: http://tiktok.com/@melrobbins Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/melrobbins LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melrobbins Website: http://melrobbins.com​ — Sign up for Mel’s newsletter: https://melrob.co/sign-up-newsletter A note from Mel to you, twice a week, sharing simple, practical ways to build the life you want. — Subscribe to Mel’s channel here: https://www.youtube.com/melrobbins​?sub_confirmation=1 — Listen to The Mel Robbins Podcast 🎧 New episodes drop every Monday & Thursday! https://melrob.co/spotify https://melrob.co/applepodcasts https://melrob.co/amazonmusic — Looking for Mel’s books on Amazon? Find them here: The Let Them Theory: https://amzn.to/3IQ21Oe The Let Them Theory Audiobook: https://amzn.to/413SObp The High 5 Habit: https://amzn.to/3fMvfPQ The 5 Second Rule: https://amzn.to/4l54fah

Mel RobbinshostTiffany Alicheguest
Mar 7, 20241h 29mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:30

    Intro

    1. MR

      Budget.

    2. TA

      Yes.

    3. MR

      It's in your name-

    4. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... Budgetnista.

    6. TA

      (laughs)

    7. MR

      I hate that word budget. I feel like budget is a punishment, it's a diet.

    8. TA

      Oh.

    9. MR

      I don't want to be on a budget, Tiffany. What do I need to do?

    10. TA

      Step one is to write everything down, just the words of what do I spend money on? Kids don't care about your bills. I don't care if your kid is 30 or 3.

    11. MR

      True.

    12. TA

      They don't care about your bills. What they do care about is what's important to them, and so if you can link your bills to what's important to them, then they will care about that outcome.

    13. MR

      What is your biggest hot take on saving money?

    14. TA

      You can actually over save.

    15. MR

      What?

    16. TA

      Yes. (laughs)

    17. MR

      (laughs)

    18. TA

      And money that's not being put to work is losing.

    19. MR

      Okay, so you're calling me a loser-

    20. TA

      (laughs) No.

    21. MR

      ... is what you're saying?

    22. TA

      All of this that you're learning today is not for money's sake, it's for meaning's sake, you know?

    23. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    24. TA

      What is the real thing that you're wanting? To what end? Time with family, time with friends, purpose, whatever that is, to center that and to use the money to match to it because you might already have enough.

    25. MR

      Hey, it's your friend Mel, and thank you for hanging out with me. I just love spending time with you, and I also wanted to acknowledge you for something. You are listening to this podcast, and that's really cool because you listen knowing that it could help you make your life better, and I just wanna say that's awesome, go you. Welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast family. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making this podcast one of the most popular podcasts in the entire world. I'm Mel Robbins. I'm a New York Times bestselling author and one of the world's leading experts on confidence and motivation, and I have a really simple mission showing up here talking to you twice a week. I just wanna inspire and empower you with tools and experts. Today you're gonna meet an incredible expert who's gonna give you the resources and the strategies that you need to create a better life, and that brings me to today's conversation, the five things that you need to know to take control of your financial life. Hey, it's Mel. I'm in the studio. I told you we have an incredible podcast today. We are gonna be talking about taking control of your money, and we have an extraordinary expert. But first, before we jump into the show, please subscribe. Subscribe, subscribe, subscribe. I'm asking you, my YouTube family, why? Because it really supports your friend Mel Robbins and it supports this show, and that way I can bring you world-class experts at $0. So take a second, subscribe. I'm waiting. You ready? Good. Let's (claps) do the show. Who is in the chair today? I'm so fricking fired up for this. Tiffiny Aleichem is here. She is known as the Budgetnista, and here's what I love about her. She's not only gonna break this entire topic of money and your financial life down, she is so amazingly relatable and entertaining. You're gonna learn so many cool things. You're gonna learn how to increase your savings without depriving yourself, how to get out of debt. You're gonna learn three ways to boost your credit score like (snaps fingers) that, and one of my all-time favorite concepts about money, she calls it paying yourself first, and you have to learn this. I wanna be very clear about something. I am unbelievably talented when it comes to making money, but I am not a financial expert. In fact,

  2. 3:30 – 8:00

    This is how Mel handles her money. Can you relate?

    1. MR

      I consider myself to be bad with money, and it may surprise you to hear that I feel that way about myself. And I'll admit to you, I have a lot to learn when it comes to being responsible with money, managing money, and if I dig even deeper, I have a lot of emotion about money. See, I shop when I'm stressed, and even though I can pay my bills at this moment in my life, I don't open my bills when they arrive. They literally sit there in a little stack. I don't know if you have a little stack like in the entryway of your house or on the counter in the kitchen, but I always have like a little stack. I don't know what it is. I kinda wanna get to the bottom of it today. And this has been the way that I've been for as long as I can remember. In fact, I can give you some examples. If I go back to college, so I arrive at college and they have that sort of like opening registration forum thing where e- there's these tables and clubs you can join. When I went to college, I'm 55 years old, no kidding, there were banks there and they were handing out credit cards, like literally handing out credit cards as if it was candy to trick-or-treaters. All you had to do, walk up to a table, fill out a form, "You get a credit card. You get a credit card." I'm like, "I'll take a credit card." It was like free money, until I graduated with $10,000 in debt and I had no idea what I'd spent it on. And that led to the next era in my life of financial irresponsibility in which I would play this game that I called Credit Card Leapfrog, which basically involved Mel Robbins searching for a credit card with a 0% offer and then transferring my balance from my last credit card that I had maxed out to this new one. And I get it, I was an idiot, and the fact is though that what was really going on is I was intimidated by money, and I was also really embarrassed by the reality of my financial situation, and it felt like living in financial quicksand. And when I got into my 20s, my first job after law school was to be a public defender and I could barely make the ends meet. I mean, I'm talking pay rent, pay for groceries, and so I started...... putting my living expenses on a credit card. I mean, it got so bad in terms of me being in debt and just constantly being irresponsible around it, that when Chris and I got married 28 years ago, I came into that marriage with five or six credit cards that were completely maxed out. Now, did I tell him? (laughs) Of cou- No. I- I- I'm being serious. In fact, if I sit here and really think about it, I'm not sure he even knows this today, because I kept it secret and I just kinda kept paying the minimum balance. And I'm telling you this because I think this is more common than most of us realize. And when you get into debt or you are like I was and you are constantly living beyond your means, because you're like, "Okay, I feel terrible, so I don't wanna sit and look at my bills, so I'm just gonna go out and spend money that I don't have, and eventually I'll have money." And so, it just creates this level of stress and shame, and it became, for me, a very toxic cycle that was hard to break out of. And, you know, as my story progresses, a lot of you know that when I was in my 40s, my husband and his best friend followed a dream of going into the restaurant business, and like a lot of you who are small business owners, we put up our house as the collateral for that business because that's all the collateral that we had. And that's great when your business is successful, but the market took a turn, the business started to fail. We found ourselves 800 grand in debt. I'm 41 years old. Three kids under the age of 10. And let me tell you something, if you think a credit card bill is scary, that is nothing compared to what it feels like to have liens start arriving in the mail saying they've hit your house, and bankruptcy notifications. And so many of you that have heard that story, that was my life 15 years ago, wanna know, "Mel, oh my God, $800,000 in debt, almost gonna lose your house. You were

  3. 8:00 – 8:50

    How Mel helped her family start getting out of debt.

    1. MR

      unemployed. How the hell did you get out of debt?" And I've never really given the answer, because I just outworked it. Like, that literally is the answer. That I realized nobody was coming. I realized that my husband was doing the best he can to try to keep the business afloat. He hadn't been paid in, like, six mon- Like, if I was gonna f- through this, I- I had to do something. And what that looked like is working like a freak. I mean, I had two, three, four jobs at a time. I just never stopped. And I started chipping away at the credit card bills and paying off the minimum balances and then making more chunks, and then when I paid them off, I cut them up. And when I finally got myself out of debt, not mortgage, I still have a mortgage, but like, all of that debt that had racked up, the liens on the house, all that stuff, that was like six years ago. I had one rule,

  4. 8:50 – 9:15

    Mel’s #1 rule about money after having been bankrupt.

    1. MR

      any dollar that came in, 50 cents had to go into savings. Why? Because it was so terrifying to be under that kind of excruciating financial stress and shame. I never wanted to be in that position again. And I know there's a lot that I can learn, which is why I'm so excited to learn from Tiffany, but I'm also here because I look at my three kids, our adult kids,

  5. 9:15 – 14:45

    How Mel passed her relationship to $$ down to her daughters.

    1. MR

      so 25, 23, and 18, and here's what scares me. I pass this stuff down to our daughters. I see them struggling with their relationship with money. It's not a powerful relationship. They are scared of it. They want more of it. They f- don't feel empowered by it. And you know, one of them is so afraid that she will never have enough money that she's like a squirrel. She works like crazy, she's always working on s- and then she's taking the nut and she's squirreling it away, and she's not enjoying it. And then there's our other daughter who's 23, and she is identical to how I used to be. You know what she does? She does what I do. She shops, and she buys something that she can't afford. In fact, the other time I was talking to her on FaceTime, this was two days ago, she's sitting there eating something that looked weird. I'm like, "What is that?" She's like, "Oh, it's sea moss. It's like the next it thing. Everybody's eating it in LA, Mom, which means of course you have to buy it in some organic bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla-bla kind of thing, which means it costs way beyond the budget of a starving artist." And so, I know better, I'm like, "Jt, don't say anything, Mel, 'cause you know, that's not a good thing to do." But I feel like I don't know how to empower my kids to break out of the cycle with money that I was trapped in. And that is why I am so excited when our next guest today said, "Mel, the Mel Robbins podc- Of course I'll get on a plane and fly to Boston and sit down with you and spend time teaching you, Mel, and you listening, The Five Things That You Need To Know to Take Control of Your Financial Life." Tiffany Aliche is here. And you might have already met her before, because she is an expert and star in the Netflix series Get Smart With Money. Her podcast Brown Ambition has won a Webby award. Her book Get Good With Money is a New York Times bestseller. And she has built an eight-figure business and she runs an eight-figure business, and she has been in the depths of debt. And you know what's interesting is I can almost hear right now all the moms and dads pulling up the share button and sharing this episode to their kids, 'cause you know as soon as we're done editing this, this is going straight to my kids. And if you're listening to this because your mom or dad or aunt or uncle or brother or sister sent this to you, I wanna tell you something. You're gonna freaking love Tiffany and you need to hear it. Tiffany has helped two million people just like you save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. And one of the reasons why I like her so much is she's been there. She understands what it's like to be under crushing debt, to be a victim of a scam, to not be able to pay your bills. And she is living proof that you can learn everything you need to learn. You can literally not only climb out of that debt, you can build a mountain of wealth, and she's gonna meet you wherever you are. So, are you ready to get good with money?I sure am. Tiffany, welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.

    2. TA

      I'm so excited to be here, Mel. I would love to just jump in and talk about your story with money. And first of all, I wanna offer up that your story is very common. That, you know, you are not the exception but the rule. So many of us, especially when we're younger, struggle with our financial relationship with money.

    3. MR

      Yep.

    4. TA

      So, like, I'm not surprised by some of the things you went through 'cause I went through them as well.

    5. MR

      And when you've helped as many people as you've helped-

    6. TA

      Yeah.

    7. MR

      ... I would imagine that you hear some of the same things-

    8. TA

      Yes.

    9. MR

      ... whether it's fear or shame. What is something that you want someone to know if they're struggling to pay their bills right now or they are like Chris and I were, their house has liens on it, they're in a mountain of debt, or they think they've done all the right things but they're still feeling this level of why can't I get this right? What is your overarching message in terms of what's possible for somebody?

    10. TA

      Well, one, I want you to know that it is quite possible. If you can hear the sound of my voice, it means that you are still currently here.

    11. MR

      Yes.

    12. TA

      And because you're still currently here, then you can turn around whatever situation or circumstance that you're in. I promise you. You know?

    13. MR

      Awesome.

    14. TA

      So if-

    15. MR

      No matter how much debt you have?

    16. TA

      No, no matter... I mean, when you said 800,000, I said, "I see your 800 and I had 300,000." (laughs)

    17. MR

      (laughs) Well, we're gonna get to that.

    18. TA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    19. MR

      So why don't we get into... I know your background, but why don't you tell everybody-

    20. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    21. MR

      ... how you became The Budgetnista, like your background.

    22. TA

      I feel like I was born into The Budgetnista. I'm one of five girls.

    23. MR

      Uh-huh.

    24. TA

      And my parents are both immigrants from Nigeria. And my dad especially was really focused on teaching his girls about money.

    25. MR

      Okay.

    26. TA

      He was an accountant. He has his, um, bachelor's in economics, his master's in finance. And we had money lessons at home.

    27. MR

      Wow.

    28. TA

      Yeah. So every Thursday we would have like a family meeting.

    29. MR

      Uh-huh.

    30. TA

      Usually about chores and homework, but also the family's financial state.

  6. 14:45 – 18:10

    How to incentivize your kids to turn out the lights.

    1. TA

      our house, our dining room, and he would say, "If the light bill goes down, we could put money into our, our traveling fund and we can go to Disney."

    2. MR

      You know what? I'm stealing that right now.

    3. TA

      (laughs)

    4. MR

      No, I'm serious.

    5. TA

      Yeah.

    6. MR

      Because I think as a parent having an 18-year-old son-

    7. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      ... like I come downstairs in the morning and if he's the last one up, it's like every light-

    9. TA

      Yes.

    10. MR

      ... in the house is on. And you can say it intellectually-

    11. TA

      Yes.

    12. MR

      ... but even just that strategy of leaving the bill out-

    13. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... and saying, "If you turn off the lights, this is lower-

    15. TA

      Yep.

    16. MR

      ... and I can use that money to do be- more things for you."

    17. TA

      Yes.

    18. MR

      That's a great tip.

    19. TA

      'Cause-

    20. MR

      Thank you to your dad.

    21. TA

      (laughs) 'Cause one of the things that he understood and... is that kids don't care about your bills. I don't care if your kid is 30 or 3.

    22. MR

      True.

    23. TA

      They don't care about your bills. What they do care about is what's important to them. And so if you can link your bills to what's important to them, then they will care about that outcome. Match it to what's important and then all of a sudden, even for yourself, like money for money's sake is usually not motivation enough.

    24. MR

      Yeah.

    25. TA

      You know, matching it to a thing, vacation, less work, more time with family, well if you can match it to something that's important, then it's easier to stick to the money goal.

    26. MR

      Interesting.

    27. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      So did you like literally graduate from high school and head off into your life and you were already chipping away saving millions of dollars?

    29. TA

      Well, I was financially, quote unquote, perfect until about 25, 26 because I just did what my parents told me to do.

    30. MR

      Okay. And-

  7. 18:10 – 23:10

    The first and second BIG financial mistakes Tiffany made.

    1. TA

      undergraduate loans. My parents helped and, and I lived at home part of the time.

    2. MR

      Yep.

    3. TA

      So I didn't have l- student loans.

    4. MR

      Okay. So now you're 26, you got $50,000 in student loans.

    5. TA

      In, in student loans though, yes.

    6. MR

      Uh-huh.

    7. TA

      And then too around that time I said, you know, I had $30,000 saved.

    8. MR

      Yep.

    9. TA

      Because although I was, um, working and making by then about $50,000 a year as a teacher, I was really good at side hustling. I, I babysat, I tutored, and so I saved about $30,000 and I said-

    10. MR

      Amazing.

    11. TA

      ... "I think I wanna buy something." I'd bought a condo, which was not necessarily bad.

    12. MR

      Right.

    13. TA

      Except for it was right before the crash, the recession. I didn't know.

    14. MR

      So we're talking 2007, 2008?

    15. TA

      Yes.

    16. MR

      Yes.

    17. TA

      Yeah. So I bought, I...

    18. MR

      That was when this all happened to me too.

    19. TA

      So I bought it in 2006, right?

    20. MR

      Yep.

    21. TA

      So I paid 220 for the condo, and I was like, "It's no problem, I've got a good job." And then I thought, "I wanna learn how to like, be rich." And I had a friend, air quotes, who I thought was rich. 'Cause in your 20s you think if someone has a nice car-

    22. MR

      Yes.

    23. TA

      ... an apartment, they're rich.

    24. MR

      Yes.

    25. TA

      So I asked him, "Can you teach me to invest?" Not my dad, but you. "Can you teach me to invest?" He says, "Sure, you look stupid. I mean..." Yeah. (laughs)

    26. MR

      (laughs)

    27. TA

      And so he told me to pull money, for one he said, "Do you have credit cards?" I said, "Just this one that my dad told me to pay off every month," which I do. He's like, "No, no. Open up a couple more because you can pull money off a credit card." I didn't know. And I was like, "Sure." So I open up the cards and he's like, "Pull ..." I think I wanna say I pulled off, um, $15,000.

    28. MR

      Yeah.

    29. TA

      And it should've been such a red flag because I was at the bank. I can literally see the banker's face saying, "Are you okay?" They kept me there for an hour, like grilling me and i- and no red flag went off. Like, Tiffany, they were worried because they're like, "Who-"

    30. MR

      "Is she getting scammed?"

  8. 23:10 – 25:45

    After the recession hit, things got even worse for Tiffany.

    1. TA

      back home?" And she's like, "Well, why wait?"

    2. MR

      Oh.

    3. TA

      "I think you should just do the thing now preemptively, you know?" And I was like, so I didn't even tell my parents. I just brought like a lamp home and then I brought like a blanket and then my mattress. And my dad's like, "Are you back?" I'm like, "Yeah." (laughs) But he didn't know why I was back. A- 'cause he knew it was like a recession and he didn't know, he didn't know that I lost my job. So he just ass- he just assumed I was trying to save money.

    4. MR

      Right.

    5. TA

      But I didn't want him to know all the other shenanigans surrounding... Only...

    6. MR

      So did you lose the condo too?

    7. TA

      Yes. It was honestly, you know how some things you're like, "It can't get worse"? And it was like, "Hold my beer."

    8. MR

      Yes.

    9. TA

      Indeed it can. So I ended up losing my condo to foreclosure. I tried to keep up with the mortgage until my retirement account was, was empty. So now I have no retirement account. I lost my condo. I still owe all this money and now I'm living back home with two Nigerian parents who think like I'm in 12th grade still because by then I was like 28, 29 and I, they were like, "Well, I hope you know you have a curfew." I'm like, "A curfew?"They're like, "If you're home..." Because I had a s-

    10. MR

      You're not spending money.

    11. TA

      Yes. I had a sister who was still in high school, and they were like, "We don't want you coming in and out," like-

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. TA

      ... her, her rules are your rules. I was like, "Wait, what?"

    14. MR

      Yeah.

    15. TA

      And so I stayed there till I was 29, and on my 29th going on 30th birthday, I remember laying in my middle school bed, because that was the bed available because the baby sister was in, like, my cool teen, like-

    16. MR

      Yeah.

    17. TA

      ... spot in the basement, and she was like, "I don't care if you're home. Go live upstairs with mommy and daddy." (laughs)

    18. MR

      Yep.

    19. TA

      And I remember laying in my middle school bed, tears streaming down the sides of my face, and I thought, "I had more money the last time I laid in this bed when I was, like, 14-"

    20. MR

      Oh, yeah.

    21. TA

      "... 'cause I babysat, I walked dogs-"

    22. MR

      Oh, yeah.

    23. TA

      And I was like, "I had more money then. I had maybe, like, three or four thousand dollars saved then than I do now at 30." And I was calling myself every loser, like, just talking to myself in a way that I would never let anyone talk to me, and it wa- I was filled with such shame-

    24. MR

      Yeah.

    25. TA

      ... that it sent me into a state of depression, because I was like, "I'm never gonna get out of this, never, ever, ever." So that's why when people come to me, I'm like, I feel it deeply, you know. Um, and so I just, I stayed in that state of depression for a while until my best friend Linda, who used to call me all the time, was like, "You never wanna go out. You always sounds so sad. What's wrong?" And I used to lie to her, and just be like, "Everything's fine! Everything's fine!" And then one day she's like, "Everything's not fine, Tiffany. Like, what's happening?" So I try to lie to her again, and I just broke down into tears, and I was like, "I'm at home. I lost everything." And she was like, "That's it?"

    26. MR

      (laughs)

    27. TA

      If you knew Linda, you'd be like... 'Cause that's Linda.

  9. 25:45 – 29:05

    What to do when you feel shame about your finances.

    1. TA

      And she was like, "So I'm calling you from my mother's couch." She's like, "Girl, we're all broke. It's the recession." (laughs)

    2. MR

      (laughs)

    3. TA

      And I started laughing, and she started laughing, and it was, like, the first laugh I had in a long time. But she was like, "Have you called any of our other friends? Like, literally, Tiffany, we are all broke. Everyone lost their job. Everyone's losing their homes. Like, you're actually not special. I mean, it's sad, but, you know, join the club, basically."

    4. MR

      I wish you had been in my, uh, circle of friends then-

    5. TA

      (laughs)

    6. MR

      ... because I needed somebody to tell me that-

    7. TA

      Yes.

    8. MR

      ... 'cause, you know, we were about to lose the house and-

    9. TA

      It's hard.

    10. MR

      And, like, really hard, 'cause you think you're the only-

    11. TA

      Only one.

    12. MR

      ... one.

    13. TA

      Yeah.

    14. MR

      I mean, the recession isn't your fault.

    15. TA

      Yeah.

    16. MR

      Losing your job isn't your fault.

    17. TA

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      The fact that you were targeted by something, someone who had the intention of scamming-

    19. TA

      Yeah.

    20. MR

      ... you, that's not your fault.

    21. TA

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      And yet, you tend to say to yourself, "I did this."

    23. TA

      Yes. Yes. So-

    24. MR

      So what did you do?

    25. TA

      So what, one, I realized that, so Linda allowed me to shed s- some of the shame.

    26. MR

      Yes.

    27. TA

      And shame shields solutions. It was like-

    28. MR

      Ooh. Say that again. I love this.

    29. TA

      So shame, I realized, shields solutions, and when I was deep in the shame, I couldn't see all the lessons that I did know. I said, "Tiffany, you've always been a great budgeter. You've always been a great saver. You've always been a little side hustler. Those parts of you are still there. You've, you can't see them because you're so steeped in this shame," and shame, honestly, loves it when you're by yourself. Shame is like, "Don't tell anybody. It's just me and you. Like, stay here with me." The only way to really to banish shame, I realized, was to give voice to it, was to say, "I, I did a thing." And shame was like, "Damn, because once she tells someone, then she's gonna realize she's not the only one."

    30. MR

      Yes.

  10. 29:05 – 29:55

    Here’s how to prioritize your bills if finances are limited.

    1. TA

      and look at them and say, "Of this money list, which one are your health and safety bills? Meaning, the bills that you have to pay to maintain your health and your safety." And I was like, "Verizon, it ain't you, girl." (laughs)

    2. MR

      (laughs)

    3. TA

      "It's not you." But, it's like, like, I have asthma. I was like, "You're gonna need that pump." (laughs)

    4. MR

      Yes. Yes.

    5. TA

      And things that I must have, and so everyone else, I was scared, but when you have, like... I always tell people, "Get yourself a Linda." So Linda used to sit next to me on the couch, and we would open up mail together. And so sometimes I'd be like, especially if you get, like, a y- um, a pink or red envelope, you know, it's like...

    6. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TA

      So then I wouldn't open it. I would slide it to Linda, and she would open it, and she would read it out loud. She'd be like, "Okay, this one says... Oh, this one's not so bad. You owe..." (laughs) So that helped a lot because I was never gonna open, you know, those letters.

    8. MR

      Well, can we s- stop right there?

    9. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      We're gonna

  11. 29:55 – 33:15

    Why is it so hard to open your bills?

    1. MR

      get to the five-

    2. TA

      Yes.

    3. MR

      ... categories of taking control of your financial life-

    4. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MR

      ... in just a minute, but can we just hover for a second-

    6. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    7. MR

      ... on this moment of opening bills?

    8. TA

      Yeah.

    9. MR

      You have helped two million people-

    10. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    11. MR

      Talk to me about why it is so hard to open your bills or look at your bank statement.

    12. TA

      Because you... There is an African saying that says, "Fear makes the wolf bigger than he is."

    13. MR

      Oh.

    14. TA

      And so, your fear is enhancing what's on the other side. It's rarely ever as big as you think. You know, you're like, "I know on the other side of this door, the wolf is huge, he's gnarling, he's foaming at the mouth, he's gonna attack me." You know? And meanwhile, if you actually open the door, it's like a wolf puppy that you could have handled. But the longer you wait, that wolf will eventually grow up and become the thing you're afraid of.

    15. MR

      Mm. Thank you for saying that about paying your bills. And, you know, here's where I just wanna make sure as you're listening to this conversation, that you realize that this is just part of the story. Because, Tiffany, you then went from that unbelievably low moment to becoming one of the most popular financial educators and experts out there in today's world. And you've helped more than two million people who were in the position that you were in to then go on to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. I mean, your story alone is a testimonial to how absolutely anyone, regardless of where you are, can start today to take control of their finances. And in that regard, you have five major categories that you're gonna help us master, and you have so many tips, so many tricks, so many different mindset flips. We all need to know this stuff, we all need to take control of our finances, and that's exactly what we're gonna do when we come back. So don't you dare go anywhere. Welcome back. It's your friend, Mel. I'm so glad you're still here, I'm so glad that you're spending time listening to this, because there's no doubt in my mind this episode is going to help you create a better life, because you're learning from none other than Tiffany Aliche. Now, you've probably seen her on Netflix's Get Smarter With Money series, maybe you've read her two New York Times bestselling books, but just know she has helped two million people who are just like you to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars in debt. And now, you know what you and I are gonna do? We are gonna jump into tips and tricks that you need to know in five specific categories, and I'm so excited. I'm sitting here on this metaphorical walk shoulder to shoulder with you. I've already confessed all of the things I've done wrong. I can't wait to learn about this, and we're gonna start with one of these topics that I hate when it comes to money. This is number one of the five things you're gonna help us master, Tiffany, and it is budget.

    16. TA

      Yes.

    17. MR

      It's in your name.

    18. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. MR

      Budgetnista.

    20. TA

      (laughs)

    21. MR

      I hate that word budget.

    22. TA

      (laughs)

    23. MR

      I hate that word budget. I feel like budget is a punishment.

    24. TA

      Okay.

    25. MR

      It's a diet.

    26. TA

      Mm.

    27. MR

      I don't want to be on a budget, Tiffany. What do I need to do?

    28. TA

      So can we-

    29. MR

      Wh- and why do we need a budget? And let's talk budget.

    30. TA

      I want you to think

  12. 33:15 – 34:35

    The #1 Rule of Money.

    1. TA

      about a budget the way lo- what I say is, like, how you think about, like, your mom, right? So you've got three kids, right?

    2. MR

      Yeah.

    3. TA

      And so if, like, say your son's like, oh, when he's little, you know, "Mom, can I have dessert?" You'd say, "Yes, after you have dinner."

    4. MR

      Mm.

    5. TA

      Or if your daughter says, "Mom, can I go outside to play?" "Yes, when you do your homework." You know? Or, you know, "Mom, can we go on vacation?" "Yes, if we lower this, this, you know, the light bill." So your budget is like your mom.

    6. MR

      Mm.

    7. TA

      She's there to say yes, when, if, after. So it's really a say yes plan, but one that's safely implemented so you can maintain the thing that you want, right?

    8. MR

      'Kay.

    9. TA

      So you could call it a money list. That's what I usually start with, 'cause people hate that name.

    10. MR

      I like the name money list.

    11. TA

      Yes.

    12. MR

      What does a money list mean?

    13. TA

      A budget. (laughs)

    14. MR

      Okay. I love this reframe-

    15. TA

      (laughs)

    16. MR

      ... because I hear the word budget and I hear no and restriction.

    17. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      And you're saying no, that the budget-

    19. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... is how you say yes to what's important to you.

    21. TA

      Yes. It's not there actually to tell me no, it's there to find the yes in the safest way possible.

    22. MR

      So for somebody hearing you say that-

    23. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      ... and they're like, "But I've never made a budget." Or, "I've never stuck to one."

    25. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    26. MR

      "I don't know what my budget should be." Like, where do you begin?

  13. 34:35 – 39:30

    Reframe your 5-step budget plan so it’s doable!

    1. MR

    2. TA

      Step one is to write everything down, just the words of, "What do I spend money on?" Don't think about the month, just in general. So it's like, oh, the kids, oh, credit card, oh, grooming, going out. Like, just, I want you to just write the words. Don't think about the money, just words.

    3. MR

      Okay.

    4. TA

      So that's first part.

    5. MR

      Step one.

    6. TA

      Yes. Then step two is now you say, "These words on my money list, how much am I spending approximately monthly?" Some stuff you'll know, like your mortgage or your rent. Some stuff you might not be sure. Go pull out your bank statement and see on average the last few months how much you're spending on, on groceries or eating out or grooming.

    7. MR

      Or electricity.

    8. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MR

      Or water.

    10. TA

      Yes.

    11. MR

      Or any of those things-

    12. TA

      Yes.

    13. MR

      ... that you don't even really think, "Oh my God, I got that bill."

    14. TA

      Exactly, so then that's within a month frame on average, right?

    15. MR

      Yep.

    16. TA

      So that's step two.

    17. MR

      'Kay.

    18. TA

      Then step three is to write down how much you make on average every month from all of your areas. So maybe you get alimony, maybe you get child support, maybe you have a job, whatever that is. How much are you making monthly? Then you add up, step four, you add up how much you're spending monthly-

    19. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. TA

      ... and subtract it from how much you're making monthly. I call that the tears and tissue step, 'cause usually people get there and they're like, "Can I have a tissue?" (laughs)

    21. MR

      (laughs) And should you do this with a friend?

    22. TA

      Yes.

    23. MR

      Should we call Linda?

    24. TA

      Yes. (laughs)

    25. MR

      Okay.

    26. TA

      Get your, get yourself a Linda. Like, so, so literally, so I, when I used to do one-on-ones, we would do all that and people would be like, "Okay." And then I'd, I would literally just grab a box of tissues and just put it here, 'cause I'm like, "It's about the water works."

    27. MR

      It's coming.

    28. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      It's coming.

    30. TA

      'Cause, you know, they add it up. I remember it was a nurse. I'll never forget. Um, I'll call her Bee, and I came to her house and it was a beautiful condo. And so we did that step and she started crying and then I started crying 'cause baby, I'm a baby. Um, and she was just like, "I didn't realize how much over I was spending." And she said, "As a matter of fact, I can't even afford the air conditioning. That's on... Can I turn it off?" And I was like, "Yes." (laughs)

  14. 39:30 – 42:00

    What concerns Mel about how easy it is to buy stuff today.

    1. TA

      What are we cutting, you know?

    2. MR

      That's true. You know, one of the things that I worry about, and I'd be curious to hear your perspective-

    3. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MR

      ... is that you and I both had the experience of being in college.

    5. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MR

      And it's that opening week, and literally at the opening registration fair-

    7. TA

      Yeah.

    8. MR

      ... there were banks-

    9. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      ... with credit card tables. You get your Snickers bar when you sign up for one-

    11. TA

      (laughs)

    12. MR

      ... and then it's free money. But I worry a lot about the fact-

    13. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      ... that in today's world, particularly for people who are in their 20s and 30s, that social media-

    15. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MR

      ... has become like shopping with a click.

    17. TA

      Yeah.

    18. MR

      And you and I had to leave our house-

    19. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... to go spend money back in the day.

    21. TA

      Yeah, yeah.

    22. MR

      And when I think about TikTok or Instagram, every other freaking suggested thing-

    23. TA

      Yeah.

    24. MR

      ... has a shop now button.

    25. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    26. MR

      And stuff gets sent to your house.

    27. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      And have you seen a big increase, because you've been doing this for a while-

    29. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MR

      ... in people in the spending category, that spending has gotten so easy-

  15. 42:00 – 45:20

    Put your money into these 4 buckets automatically.

    1. TA

      You say, "Hey, HR," or payroll, "I want to split my money before I get my money." And so what that looks like is, is that... and, and most places can do this 'ca- I'm at a huge company and we're capable of doing this. There are four accounts, two checking, two savings.

    2. MR

      Wait, so everybody needs four accounts?

    3. TA

      Ideally, give or take. I mean, it depends on where you are, but this is, this is the ideal, two checking, two savings. So checking one is kind of like your spending account. This is attached to your debit card, right?

    4. MR

      Okay.

    5. TA

      So most people have this account, but everything just gets dumped there.

    6. MR

      Yes.

    7. TA

      You know? So that's the account you keep it. The second account is a checking account, which is your bills account.And so I want you to separate your bill money from your spending money.

    8. MR

      And does it cost money to have two different checking accounts with your bank?

    9. TA

      Well, the good thing is, if you have direct deposit into those, most banks will waive that fee.

    10. MR

      Awesome.

    11. TA

      So that's why you're gonna do it from, eh, like, I have payroll direct deposit into those accounts.

    12. MR

      Oh, so you, at your-

    13. TA

      Company.

    14. MR

      ... company level-

    15. TA

      Yes. Yes.

    16. MR

      ... you basically say-

    17. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      ... w, x percent-

    19. TA

      Yes. Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      ... of my paycheck is gonna go into checking account-

    21. TA

      Yep.

    22. MR

      ... number one-

    23. TA

      Yes, for spending.

    24. MR

      ... which is where my bills are.

    25. TA

      Yeah.

    26. MR

      And, or spending.

    27. TA

      Yeah.

    28. MR

      And then the other percentage, and do you have a particular percentage in mind?

    29. TA

      Well, the good thing is people ask me that all the time. I'm like, "Well, we don't have to guess." Money list is right there saying-

    30. MR

      Oh.

  16. 45:20 – 48:20

    How do you know if an online bank is legit?

    1. TA

      maybe four, 4%, a little bit more. Um, and so you're gonna have one-

    2. MR

      Now when you said online only bank-

    3. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MR

      ... I had a visceral reaction-

    5. TA

      Okay.

    6. MR

      ... because I immediately thought about the dude that scammed you outta money for some reason.

    7. TA

      Oh, yes. (laughs)

    8. MR

      You know what I mean? Like, how do you know that an online bank-

    9. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MR

      ... is a reputable bank to put your money in? Because that to me-

    11. TA

      It's FDIC insured.

    12. MR

      FDIC insured.

    13. TA

      Yeah, so this is-

    14. MR

      But how would you know that 'cause everybody can copy that little icon?

    15. TA

      So no, 'cause that would be against, I mean, I mean, if they wanna go to like under the jail-

    16. MR

      Yes.

    17. TA

      ... by the federal government.

    18. MR

      Okay.

    19. TA

      So you could, honestly, a, a Google search, there are like, um-

    20. MR

      We're also gonna link, everybody, you know our resources are robust.

    21. TA

      (laughs) Mm-hmm.

    22. MR

      And today there will be a lot of information-

    23. TA

      Yes.

    24. MR

      ... from The Budgetnista.

    25. TA

      Yes.

    26. MR

      And Tiffany will have stuff so that you can go to her resources-

    27. TA

      Yes.

    28. MR

      ... and understand what's reputable, what's not.

    29. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    30. MR

      And so...

  17. 48:20 – 51:22

    What percentage of your income should be for living expenses?

    1. MR

    2. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      So if you followed all this advice and you kinda look at what it costs for you to pay for your life, you know, all of the stuff that's going out in all of these categories you've just taught us about, what do you think the percentage should be? If you look at the income coming in, like what percentage is your day-to-day expenses?

    4. TA

      I would say ideally-Ideally, ideally, if you can live off of 70% of your income.

    5. MR

      Okay.

    6. TA

      That's ideal. Like, you might be at 99, that's okay. But this is what you're working toward.

    7. MR

      Okay.

    8. TA

      No more than 70%.

    9. MR

      Okay.

    10. TA

      Obviously, you make more, it might be even lower, like I think at this point I might live off of 20 or 30%.

    11. MR

      Okay.

    12. TA

      At one point, I was living off of 200%. (laughs)

    13. MR

      Right.

    14. TA

      You know, but 70%.

    15. MR

      Right.

    16. TA

      You know, 70%-

    17. MR

      Meaning you were in debt.

    18. TA

      Yes. (laughs) Exactly.

    19. MR

      Meaning you were spending more.

    20. TA

      Yes.

    21. MR

      Yes.

    22. TA

      Way more.

    23. MR

      Yeah, same.

    24. TA

      So this is not shame, this is just like, "I'm working toward this."

    25. MR

      Yes.

    26. TA

      This is what your ideal is.

    27. MR

      Okay.

    28. TA

      So 70%, so that would be what's in your spending account and what's in your bills account. That would equate for 70%, because that's living off of money.

    29. MR

      You know, I love that you just offered up though this hope.

    30. TA

      Mm-hmm.

  18. 51:22 – 53:40

    Rule #2 of Tiffany’s Money Strategy: how to manage debt.

    1. MR

      next, debt. What do you do when you go through the money list and what you see is a lot of debt?

    2. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      What are the steps?

    4. TA

      Well, for debt, you have to, that's another kind of like list, so I just call it, just honestly like the debt list. We have to just get a picture, like what's happening here?

    5. MR

      Yes.

    6. TA

      Who do you owe? This is what's gonna go on your debt list. Who do you owe? How much do you owe? When is it due? What's the interest rate? What's the status?

    7. MR

      (gulps)

    8. TA

      I know. This is why you wanna have your bestie of besties.

    9. MR

      I know. Get over there.

    10. TA

      You're right, like... (laughs)

    11. MR

      I'm thinking about my friend Jodie. Jodie, pull up a chair, let's go.

    12. TA

      (laughs) Right?

    13. MR

      Exactly.

    14. TA

      So yeah, so you, 'cause you have to get a pic- this is actually, sometimes it can be a little harder than the money list.

    15. MR

      Oh, I would think so.

    16. TA

      Yes.

    17. MR

      'Cause I was, I, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking to myself, "I haven't even done this for myself."

    18. TA

      Yeah. To see like, who do I owe?

    19. MR

      Yeah, like what is my mortgage-

    20. TA

      Yeah.

    21. MR

      ... at right now?

    22. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    23. MR

      And how many more years is it going to be?

    24. TA

      Yeah.

    25. MR

      And what are, like I, what is the car loan that I have?

    26. TA

      Yeah.

    27. MR

      And how many more years is it?

    28. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      And what is the interest rate?

    30. TA

      Yeah. So just knowing, like, what those things are, and like I said, don't do it alone. You could literally have a party.

  19. 53:40 – 55:08

    Use the Snowball Method to pay down your bills.

    1. TA

      100 bucks a month.

    2. MR

      Right.

    3. TA

      So now, it's like, okay, that 100 bucks a month now rolls over like a snowball downhill.

    4. MR

      Yes, 'cause now that debt's paid to granny.

    5. TA

      Yes.

    6. MR

      And now we go to the next one.

    7. TA

      Yes. The next debt gets its minimum, which it was already getting, but it gets that lowest debt's minimum, the- the first one, and that extra money from your, from your, your money list. So now all of a sudden, it's getting like three payments in one. So you're cooking with grease now. You know?

    8. MR

      Yeah. Yeah.

    9. TA

      And when that's paid off, you roll over that full amount to the third. And what's so great is, as the snowball rolls down the hill, it collects snow minimums along the way, so by the time you get to the biggest debt, you have the most amount of money, but it didn't actually take any additional money out of your budget, because you've collected minimums that you were already paying.

    10. MR

      Oh.

    11. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MR

      So I'm gonna try to translate that.

    13. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MR

      So if your credit card bill has a minimum of $50-

    15. TA

      Yes.

    16. MR

      ... and you've just been paying the 50-

    17. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    18. MR

      ... and paying the 50, that means you're not really chipping away at the, at the balance.

    19. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    20. MR

      So as you use this method and you get the lowest paid off-... you don't have to pay that $50 anymore.

    21. TA

      No.

    22. MR

      And then you go to the next one.

    23. TA

      Well, you take that $50 from there-

    24. MR

      But then it goes to the next one.

    25. TA

      Yes. Mm-hmm.

    26. MR

      Got you. And so you've accumulated all these 50s-

    27. TA

      Yes. Yes.

    28. MR

      ... and by the time you get to the big one, you might have 200 extra dollars in the cash c-

    29. TA

      Yeah, on top of the mini. Yes. Yeah.

    30. MR

      Got you. Okay.

  20. 55:08 – 55:30

    Or use the Avalanche Method to hit highest interest rates.

    1. TA

      is when you're like, "Forget all that. I'm logical. I wanna attack the debt with the highest interest rate, the most expensive debt first."

    2. MR

      Mm.

    3. TA

      Because interest rate is the fee you pay for what you owe.

    4. MR

      'Kay.

    5. TA

      So the more you owe, the more the interest rate is gonna affect what you have to, to pay, so-

    6. MR

      Yes.

    7. TA

      ... you're gonna line your debt up from the highest interest rate-

    8. MR

      Yep.

    9. TA

      ... to the lowest interest rate first.

    10. MR

      'Kay.

    11. TA

      And you're gonna attack highest interest rate debt first.

  21. 55:30 – 56:30

    The Tsunami Method is best when one particular debt causes stress.

    1. TA

    2. MR

      Okay. Y-

    3. TA

      So there's snowball, avalanche, and I call this the tsunami method.

    4. MR

      (laughs)

    5. TA

      Is, this is for people who really get emotionally overwhelmed, and you line up your debt by how it affects you emotionally.

    6. MR

      Oh.

    7. TA

      You know? Because like, let's honor the fact that some of us really need to navigate from that place. Like, which debt is causing you the most stress? It's s- it, the tsunami is coming over you, and it's like, "I have to pay my grandmother back, because I feel so bad. And then next, it's really my mortgage. And then next, it's this bike that I bought. And then that..." You see what I mean?

    8. MR

      Yes. Yes.

    9. TA

      So with that method, you're lining up the debt from most stressful to least stressful and paying it off in that order. But either way, you're collecting the minimums amount along the way. You pay off the debt, you roll over that full payment to the next one. Pay off that debt, roll over all those payments to the next one. So that still stays the same, it's just the order that it depends on, like what you need in order to be successful.

    10. MR

      We must have similar grandmas, 'cause I wouldn't wanna have to face my grandmother either.

    11. TA

      (laughs)

    12. MR

      'Cause they're knocking on the door, complaining again at the dinner table. So, um, you have

  22. 56:30 – 58:15

    Rule #3: How do you save when you’re just making ends meet?

    1. MR

      this concept that I absolutely love. That was budget that we've talked about.

    2. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. MR

      We've now covered debt.

    4. TA

      Yeah.

    5. MR

      The third concept that you talk about is saving.

    6. TA

      Yes.

    7. MR

      How do you save? Especially if you don't feel like you have money to save, because you are just making the ends meet, or not, even.

    8. TA

      Mm-hmm. And sometimes you can't. I know people don't wanna say that, but I'm like, I remember when it was like, I had a savings account, 'cause it was free, but that account was like, "Hello? Is it me you're looking for?" (laughs)

    9. MR

      (laughs)

    10. TA

      It didn't have anything in it.

    11. MR

      (laughs)

    12. TA

      I mean, because that's life sometimes.

    13. MR

      Yeah.

    14. TA

      And I just rem- but I opened it, because sometimes you do a thing not for where you are currently, but for-

    15. MR

      But where you wanna go.

    16. TA

      There you go. And so I opened up a savings account, because they're typically free, and I said, "One day, I'll be able to put something into you." And so for the first year or so, when I was paying down all that credit card debt, and, like, making a little money here and there, the Budgetista was starting to do a little better. And I was like, I remember I was able to save $5 a month, and I put it in there, not for the five, but the five was proof. "If I could do five, one day I'll do 10.

    17. MR

      Mm.

    18. TA

      If I could do 10, one, one day I'll do 100."

    19. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    20. TA

      "If I could do 100, one day I'll do 1,000."

    21. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    22. TA

      And so it was a placeholder for that one day. In the beginning, it's okay to acknowledge that you might have these four accounts and those two stay empty for a while.

    23. MR

      Yeah. I-

    24. TA

      Because there's not enough money.

    25. MR

      I, I love that you said that, 'cause I can absolutely remember years of my life where there was a savings account attached to my checking account.

    26. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. MR

      I could not afford to put anything in there. It would literally be like 27 cents.

    28. TA

      Mm-hmm. (laughs)

    29. MR

      You know, like that. And, and I made friends with the tellers.

    30. TA

      Mm-hmm.

  23. 58:15 – 1:01:00

    Use “dreamscaping” to motivate yourself when debt gets you down.

    1. MR

    2. TA

      Yes.

    3. MR

      Someday.

    4. TA

      Someday.

    5. MR

      Someday, I will get it in there. Someday.

    6. TA

      Dreamscaping.

    7. MR

      Okay. Let's talk about dreamscaping.

    8. TA

      Yes.

    9. MR

      What is dreamscaping?

    10. TA

      So this is a word I totally made up, as preschool teachers are apt to do. Um, and I just thought, like, you know, landscaping, this is when you design the outside of your home to be-

    11. MR

      Yes.

    12. TA

      ... beautiful and aesthetically pleasing. And so I'm like, "Well, why can't we do that with our dreams? Why can't I?" Dreamscaping means that like, I think of the most beautiful, aesthetically pleasing, big, expansive life that I wanna live. And I was a big daydreamer-

    13. MR

      Hmm.

    14. TA

      ... when I was a kid, so I got, like, I was the kid in class talks too much and daydreams. (laughs)

    15. MR

      (laughs)

    16. TA

      And so I, but I love daydreaming, because it allows me to tr- like, really, like, um, go into the future and say, "This is what life is gonna look like for me," live there for a little bit, and then bring back, bring back that feeling here. And it says, "Okay, this is what you need to do for that to be life."

    17. MR

      'Kay.

    18. TA

      And so, with dreamscaping, I identify a time in the future that, what I wanna see. So maybe it's the December 31st version of yourself this year.

    19. MR

      Yes.

    20. TA

      Maybe it's you five years from now, 10 years from now, whatever that is. And then I ask myself, holistically, "How do I want life to go?" Not financially, holistically. Like, "How long do I want my hair to be?" Like, "Where do I wanna live? What do I wanna drive?" You know, "What kind of foods am I into?" Like, I, just imagining my full, complete life. "Where have I traveled to?"

    21. MR

      Yep.

    22. TA

      You know? Um, that kinda thing. And so, that's the second part of dreamscaping, is I, like, really dreaming, like, your full life.

    23. MR

      Yep.

    24. TA

      Um, then the third part is to find a guide asking for help. So, if there's someone who, there's part of your dream that they're living it, you know, maybe they're on social media and you follow their social media. N- you know, do they do podcast interviews? Do they have a book that's come out? Do you know them personally? Like, don't go at this alone. Why? You know, the fastest way f- from where you are to where you wanna be usually is through someone else.

    25. MR

      Right.

    26. TA

      And so I'm literally studying, like, "Oh, I love the way Mel does that."

    27. MR

      Yeah.

    28. TA

      "Okay, so I'm just g- I'm gonna read all the things you've written, and watch all your shows, and, and, and listen to all your podcasts, so I can get a guide from you about what does that look like." And then fourth, I create a plan based upon what I've learned about, this is where I wanna be, this is what I'm, learned from Mel of how she got there. Let me create a plan that's focused but flexible. Because I'm not you.

    29. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    30. TA

      So it's like a, you know, there's like this framework there-

  24. 1:01:00 – 1:03:18

    Do this so that you don’t go debt-free alone.

    1. TA

      people or two million people.

    2. MR

      Yeah.

    3. TA

      Find community and work the plan within that community.

    4. MR

      Yeah.

    5. TA

      So you can have accountability, you can have, um, people to cheer you on and a place to vent and say you're scared, you know? And to see yourself in other people. So if you do those five things, that's the five steps to dreamscaping.

    6. MR

      Well, the other piece that's, uh, powerful about that is when I look at all of your advice, it is empowering you-

    7. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MR

      ... to take your emotions out of it and to align the actions that you're taking with the kind of person that you wanna become. I love that.

    9. TA

      You ever think to yourself... So this is something I remember I, I learned in, um, in therapy when I was, uh, talking to my therapist. She said, like I'd never smoked. I have asthma, so I'm like, "I do not wanna take myself out of here." And so... (laughs)

    10. MR

      (laughs)

    11. TA

      Um, and so she said, "Tiffany, do you consider yourself, um, like a non-smoker?" And I was like, "No, because it doesn't even resonate because I just don't smoke." I'm not, that's just not part of like who I am.

    12. MR

      Okay.

    13. TA

      So I don't even associate smoker or non-smoker. I've just, never anybody who smoked, because I align with, "I am who I say I am."

    14. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    15. TA

      And so like, that should be the aim for all that we do. So it's not like, "Oh, am I a overspender or underspender?" It's like, well, no, you're just... You align with, "This is, I show up, I am who I say I am." That my goal is to be the person who I'm not worried about over or underspending. I spend in a way that's aligned with the way, the life that I wanna live. Do you see what I mean?

    16. MR

      I do.

    17. TA

      Not attached to that label, yeah.

    18. MR

      I do. I feel very empowered as I'm listening to you-

    19. TA

      Mm.

    20. MR

      ... about going and creating a money list-

    21. TA

      Yeah.

    22. MR

      ... and going and doing the debt list.

    23. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      And just really getting a very clear picture-

    25. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    26. MR

      ... for myself.

    27. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MR

      For myself, so that I can decide in the Dreamscape Model-

    29. TA

      Yes.

    30. MR

      ... well, what is the story I tell about myself-

  25. 1:03:18 – 1:06:20

    The 4 questions to ask yourself before you spend.

    1. TA

      four questions before you spend any money, and those questions are, "Do I need it?"

    2. MR

      No.

    3. TA

      "Do I love it?"

    4. MR

      Yes.

    5. TA

      "Do I like it?" (laughs)

    6. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    7. TA

      "Do I want it?"

    8. MR

      Mm-hmm.

    9. TA

      So need it, love it, like it, want it. And so they show you that like needs are most important-

    10. MR

      Okay.

    11. TA

      ... then your loves, then your likes, then your wants, and so when I'm spending money, those are the quadrants. I try to stay on the half of needs and loves. So a need is something you must have in order to be okay.

    12. MR

      Yeah.

    13. TA

      So bills.

    14. MR

      Yeah.

    15. TA

      Those UBs and Bs, those are your needs.

    16. MR

      Yes.

    17. TA

      You know, right?

    18. MR

      Yes.

    19. TA

      Now loves are different. Loves are something that is going to bring you joy over a year from now, you know? And so that's different for everyone. For some people, it is that haircut. For some people, it is, you know, that amazing dinner.

    20. MR

      Yeah.

    21. TA

      For some people, it's travel. For some people, it is that dress. So there's no judgment there. Just a year from now, will this th- thing still generate joy for me?

    22. MR

      Hmm.

    23. TA

      So deep joy are the things that are, the things that we love.

    24. MR

      Yes.

    25. TA

      And then likes, which is next, are temporary joy. So that's something about six months from now, and you're like, "Oh, it's still cute. I remember."

    26. MR

      Yeah.

    27. TA

      You know, but a year later you might be like, "Wait, where is that shirt that I had?" You know?

    28. MR

      Yeah.

    29. TA

      And then wants are literally the opposite, just instant gratification.

    30. MR

      Yes.

  26. 1:06:20 – 1:08:25

    How much money should be in savings before you start losing?

    1. MR

      money?

    2. TA

      My biggest hot take on saving money is there is a cap for how much you should save. Like you can actually over save.

    3. MR

      What?

    4. TA

      Yes. (laughs) I've been an over-saver where I had so much money saved, because there is a point where it's like no more than a year's worth of emergency savings is necessary for savings. I mean, at one point-

    5. MR

      You're not talking about investing?

    6. TA

      No.

    7. MR

      You're just talking about savings.

    8. TA

      Yeah, saving. Yeah, yeah.

    9. MR

      Okay, great.

    10. TA

      So like, you know, like, um, depending... So my mom was a nurse before she, um, retired.

    11. MR

      Yep.

    12. TA

      Right? So three months was enough for her. You know, my sister's an engineer, six months is fine. Me as an entrepreneur, I'd feel more comfortable with a year. But anything above that, you're actually losing money. Because savings is not really growing-

    13. MR

      Oh.

    14. TA

      You know? And it should be put to work. The purpose of... I want people... 'Cause people get mad about savings. They're like, "I want all my money to be put to work." But every belt is not meant to be a fashion Gucci belt. Some belts are safety belts. It's not for fashion, so-

    15. MR

      That's right. Your, your car-

    16. TA

      Yes.

    17. MR

      ... has a buckle belt-

    18. TA

      Yes.

    19. MR

      ... in it-

    20. TA

      I'm sorry.

    21. MR

      ... but it's a safety belt.

    22. TA

      It's not monogra- and it's not monogrammed.

    23. MR

      Yes.

    24. TA

      Right? The pur- the intention is for safety and that money, although it would be nice if savings grew astronomically, that money is just for safety.

    25. MR

      I love that.

    26. TA

      Mm-hmm. And then the excess, that no more than a year, should be put to work, absolutely. For some people the excess is anything above three months, some people anything above six months. I say no more than a year. So too much savings is actually detrimental. There's like the law of diminishing returns. One glass of water, so good for you. Four glasses, so great. 40, you're gonna drown.

    27. MR

      Yes. I, that, that is, that's the first time I've ever heard that.

    28. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    29. MR

      And I think for those of us that has lost your money or nearly lost your house-

    30. TA

      Mm-hmm.

  27. 1:08:25 – 1:10:33

    Rule #4: How do you improve your credit score?

    1. TA

    2. MR

      And now let's talk about number four, which is credit.

    3. TA

      Okay.

    4. MR

      And this is a hugely popular topic.

    5. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MR

      With your audience, with everybody. How can you improve your credit score?

    7. TA

      So credit, if your cr- issue is credit, congratulations, it's the easiest thing to fix. So I want you to just, phew, woosah, 'cause credit is a thing that people worry about the most-

    8. MR

      Yes.

    9. TA

      ... but quite honestly, it's the easiest to fix. Credit is tips and tricks.

    10. MR

      Oh my God.

    11. TA

      That's it.

    12. MR

      I love, tips and tricks.

    13. TA

      Just tips and tricks.

    14. MR

      Here we go, give me some tips and tricks.

    15. TA

      Right? So first thing to understand that there are, there are multiple categories that affect your credit. It's 35% of your score is, um, is what your payment history is.

    16. MR

      Okay.

    17. TA

      Right? And so like do you pay the people on time? Do you pay at least a minimum? Well then, 35% of your score, you're good.

    18. MR

      Handled.

    19. TA

      30% of your score is going to be, um, amounts owed. So get your payments down.

    20. MR

      Everybody, that would be the debt list-

    21. TA

      Yes.

    22. MR

      ... and the money list.

    23. TA

      Mm-hmm.

    24. MR

      Okay?

    25. TA

      So if those two things alone is 65% of your score, so if you just like concentrate on getting your debt down and if you automate that bills account, do you see how it all comes together?

    26. MR

      Yes, I do.

    27. TA

      Yeah, so automate that bills account, 65% of your score is being positively affected. There's other things to consider with your score, is they look at length of credit history.

    28. MR

      Okay.

    29. TA

      Right? So length of credit history is just how long have you had access to credit and have you been using it. Now, this is important because think about like, um, so you said your, your, um, your son is 17. Is he driving?

Episode duration: 1:29:28

Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript

Transcript of episode x6S63406raY

Get more out of YouTube videos.

High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.

Add to Chrome