The Mel Robbins PodcastYou Learn This Too Late: This One Idea Might Change Your Entire Life
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,374 words- 0:00 – 3:45
Intro
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Imagine raising your children without anxiety and control.
- MRMel Robbins
Is that possible?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(instrumental music plays) This whole idea that we need to raise a successful child, that is a myth. Parents get really upset with me because they're like, "Oh! You didn't give me the three keys to fix my child's, you know, social media addiction." I said, "Because they are not the problem only."
- MRMel Robbins
You know, I'll be the first to admit that this behavior of feeling like, "Well, you owe me."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"I did everything I could-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... I paid for that, so I expect you to behave a certain way."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
This is the single biggest behavior and way of thinking that I am trying to break.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Your child owes you nothing. Parents don't like when I say that.
- MRMel Robbins
Your child owes you nothing?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Your child owes... No human being owes you anything.
- MRMel Robbins
Your job is not to change or fix the child, but to use the experience to change or fix and heal something about yourself.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. The child is not broken, so there's no- nothing to fix. We're searching for that thing on the outside because we never cultivated it on the inside.
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, well, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. (clock ticks) (instrumental music plays) Alrighty, it's your friend Mel. I'm so glad that you tuned in today, that you're here with me, and I'm thrilled to welcome Dr. Shefali to the Mel Robbins Podcast. Let me tell you a little bit about her. Dr. Shefali received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. She is an expert in family dynamics and is known as the pioneer of the conscious parenting movement. Now, she specializes in the integration of Western psychology and Eastern philosophy. She's a New York Times best-selling author of seven books. Her newest book is The Parenting Map. And I also wanna congratulate Dr. Shefali because she's finally launching her own podcast, Parenting And You with Dr. Shefali. Now, I've been wanting to have her on the Mel Robbins Podcast since I launched this almost two years ago, because she uses the parent-child relationship as a lens to examine your relationship with yourself and you becoming conscious of your own destiny. Before we jump into it, I wanna ask you, share this with your parents, share this conversation with your children and with your partner, because I know that Dr. Shefali is going to inspire you to think about yourself, your life, and your relationships in a whole new way. So please help me welcome Dr. Shefali to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I am so excited. We finally have you here-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... on the Mel Robbins Podcast.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. I'm so excited to be here, I can't even tell you.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, I'm both excited for the person listening, but as a parent of three adult children, I cannot wait to learn from you. Could you speak directly to the person who's listening to us today and explain what they might experience in their life if they take to heart everything you're about to share?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Well, I think the main thing is that they will begin to understand that their need to control their life, their need to be the master puppeteer of their life, their relationships, and their children comes from their own inner anxiety, which is connected to their own unworthiness.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
When they begin to discover that it's their own inner lack that's driving all this control toward their children, toward their partners, toward micromanaging everything around them, then they have an opportunity to look at that and heal that wound and awaken.
- MRMel Robbins
You are teaching the world this revolutionary concept
- 3:45 – 7:38
What is conscious parenting?
- MRMel Robbins
called conscious parenting. Can you explain what that is?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
What I teach in conscious parenting is kind of against the grain, right? It's revolutionary in that it's not focused on curating, producing, micromanaging this perfect product called a child, but instead focuses on the awakening of the parent's consciousness, because I truly believe the future of the planet lies in the evolution of the parent. So...
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, well, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
Okay, you're al- (laughs) 'Cause that is a very big departure from what most parenting experts are focused on-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... which are strategies for either connecting with or controlling your child's behavior.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
And your focus is on using the experience of parenting-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to awaken something within you.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right, awaken the parents, because no matter what you say to your child, you may, you may have the best script, but if you are operating from a place of disconnect within yourself, then no matter what you tell your child, it will land in a way that is disconnected and disempowering for the child. So, what I help parents understand is that their internal disconnection from their own self, uh, governance, their own self-authority, their own inner knowing, which they divorced from, you know, way back in childhood, is still operating in their parenting today. And the relationship with their children is not here so much to fix the child, but to use the relationship as a mirror to their own unhealed self.
- MRMel Robbins
Whoa. Your approach is to get parents to understand that your job is not to change or fix the child, but to use the experience to change or fix and heal something about yourself.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. The child is not broken, so there's no- nothing to fix. So if you come with that attitude of, "I need to fix and micromanage and, you know, produce this star achiever that I can post on Facebook about and share with all my friends and feel good and tell my mom and dad, 'Look, I'm- I'm not a loser, see?'"
- MRMel Robbins
Right.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
"'I did good.'"... th- that whole approach is never going to work well, because you're operating from a state of lack and scarcity, and, uh, and unworthiness, looking for your child to be your trophy. So, the first thing I help parents understand is that this anxiety that they have translates to control, and children who feel, subconsciously even, that they are being controlled will begin to operate from their own brokenness, because they, they will think to themselves, "Why am I being controlled all the time? Why am, why am I being micromanaged all the time? It must be because I'm broken." So, if we look back to our own childhood, to our own parenting, we will remember moments where we felt disconnected, disempowered by our parents, and we wanted to protest, saying, "Hey, no, I know who I am," or, "Let me be me." But we were denied that right and disconnected from our knowing, because they were operating from anxiety and a need to control. So, the one thing I offer parents through this approach, if they have to le- and they have to learn it, if they're open to it, is an invitation to release control, because our children are not controllable. Life is not controllable. And that is the greatest nugget of wisdom, the jewel I offer through conscious
- 7:38 – 9:56
The greatest gift that comes from conscious parenting.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
parenting, is, imagine raising your children without anxiety and control.
- MRMel Robbins
Is that possible?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Of course. But it requires a lot of inner work on the part of the parent, and it's constant, and it's daily, and it's to be cultivated. It's a practice. So, conscious parenting is the art of living in the moment, understanding that life is so precarious and fragile that any instinct to control will actually create the opposite effect of more uncontrollability. You know, I wrote a book called Out of Control because we're operating out of control, but everything becomes out of control. And the whole world is operating out of this desire to control. If you look all around you, monuments and cathedrals to our need to be significant, to control our anxiety that we're not good enough. And if the parent operates out of that, unknowingly, that, "I am not good enough, and therefore I need to raise a child who's a superstar," actually you will raise a child who feels unworthy, because it (laughs) , paradoxically, it is when you raise the child who feels good enough as they are-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... without the tentacles of your control, now that child will be raised on a bastion of inner empowerment.
- MRMel Robbins
One thing I wanna just establish at the very beginning, because we are gonna focus so much on both the act of parenting-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... but also on being parented.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So, your own experience-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... of growing up, your own experience of how your parents shaped you. Could you speak to the person listening, who is not a parent-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... because we have so many, uh, just mothers and daughters, and fathers and sons-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and friends that share episodes-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to one another-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... that I could see this conversation today being a big one, where maybe you send this to your mom or dad-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to get them to think differently about your relationship, or your mom or dad is sending it-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... down to a daughter or son.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And so, if you do not have children, though, as you're listening to the conversation today,
- 9:56 – 12:10
What conscious parenting can teach you if you are not a parent.
- MRMel Robbins
how would you advise somebody to listen to you and to what you're about to teach us today so that it impacts your life whether you are parenting a child or not?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah. I always say my work is really for any human raising a child or who has been one (laughs) -
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... right? A parent or someone who's been parented. So, my work is all about deconstructing and demystifying the institutions of culture that have pervaded our minds (laughs) and our belief systems in such pernicious ways. And the reason why I focus on parents is not because I'm so in love with children necessarily, but it's because I see that that's how the transmission of those institutional belief systems gets passed down. So, whi- which better source to cut it at is the parent? So, I help the parent disrupt their conditioning, their harmful conditioning, so that the next generations can be free. But it is for any human who's been parented. So, what institutions am I talking about? This whole idea that we need to raise a successful child. That is a myth. It comes from the institution of achievement, and wealth, and competition, and climbing the ladder. And from a young age, we're training our children to go off to college. Children don't even have a childhood anymore because of the parents' anxiety and desire to control the future, which, in the parents' mind, because they're indoctrinated, is, "I need to raise a kid who's a superstar," which means wealthy, elite, with a good career. Now, n- those aspirations could be worthy, but when that is the sole focus, you miss the process. You miss the essence of who your child is, and you actually fill your child with anxiety about the future.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Let's take another institution that's very common in parenting. Uh, "I want my child to be happy." Right? The institution of happiness. It's an institution. In fact, our entire culture is chasing happiness. Well, that is a disease. It's a toxic way to live, to parent, to be parented, because when
- 12:10 – 17:00
The problem with wanting your child to be happy.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
our focus is on this ubiquitous ideal called happiness, we miss...... the process that occurs in this present moment, and children more than any human has the capacity to live in the present moment, and they beckon us to the present moment. But because we're only focused on happiness for the future and raising that superstar tomorrow, we are missing the awakening that can happen in the experience of the here and the now.
- MRMel Robbins
I, um, am listening to you, and I'm thinking both as a parent...
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and as somebody who has been conditioned to chase success and chase happiness.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And I can admit to you, easily, I can see it right now, that, you know, I absolutely was about the chasing success-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... early in the parenting.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
But I've just passed that off to happiness.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Exactly.
- MRMel Robbins
And I thought I was doing it right. I'm like, "Oh, well, I don't care if they're successful-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... I don't care about the grades-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... I don't care what college they go to or not-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
"... I just want my kids to be happy." But I didn't think that that was causing anxiety.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-mm.
- MRMel Robbins
How does that cause anxiety?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Oh my goodness. So, can we deconstruct it for a second?
- MRMel Robbins
Of course.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So first and foremost, you're absolutely right. Parents in the new age, the positive psychological parents, who are so enlightened, have just completely euphemistically transferred the focus from achievement, and money, and wealth, because that's too passe and too primitive, onto this more enlightened concept called happiness. But it's equally a load of, you know, BS-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... as before. Let me tell you why. Deconstruct the sentence, "I just want my child to be happy." You know, I love when parents come to me, they say, "Dr. Shefali, okay, okay, okay. I've, I've learned everything you've said. I don't care if my child is a carpenter, a ballet dancer or, you know, a monk in Tibet. I have given up the Ivy League dream." And they think they have done a big job, which they have-
- MRMel Robbins
Okay.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... to a degree. "All I want, Dr. Shefali, you know, all I'm asking for is that they just be happy." Okay, so let's deconstruct. "I just want my child to be happy."
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
What's, what's the first letter?
- MRMel Robbins
I.
- 17:00 – 19:56
The REAL reason that we should have children.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
We have children so that we can take the trophy home to our parents and go, "See? I'm worthy," and let them be the, the mirror of our own deep sense, deep desire, craving for significance. And unless we are willing and brave enough to look under the hood of that ego and own, with humility and compassion, "Yes, that's why I had a child, so I can feel good about myself," then we are now progressing. But, uh, to get parents to even to admit that, oh my goodness, I sweat bullets and cry, cry blood and tears, because the parental ego is so firmly in place, by society really. It's not the parents' fault.
- MRMel Robbins
So now let me put on the hat of being a daughter.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And so as you're listening, whether you have kids in your life, you are somebody's kid.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah, always.
- MRMel Robbins
Always.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Always.
- MRMel Robbins
It doesn't matter how old you are, until your parents die, you still have somebody in your life where you are the child. And one of the things that has really struck me-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... is how what I feel has been passed down-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... as something toxic-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in my kind of-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
From my-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... uh, grandparents to parents-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to me to my kids-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... is this sense of-... just loyalty and duty.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
That, that you are supposed to do-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... absolutely everything-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that your parents would like for you to do-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... whether it's coming home on certain weekends-
- 19:56 – 22:49
The most toxic parenting behavior.
- MRMel Robbins
parenting behavior is?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
It's exactly this, where you use your child to fulfill your unmet fantasies, expectations, and desires, and do not own it. (laughs) And pretend as if you're so selfless, that you're doing it all for these, these children who are so ungrateful, and, "If only they could understand the sacrifices we've been through." And that is the subtle imprint, uh, on our children's psyche, and that's how we keep them, uh, you know, festered to, uh, you know, i- in a way, to our own wounds. We keep them festering, uh, in this way and connected.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you know what's interesting is when my mom, um, was, uh, was in college, she and my dad, you know, met, and she ended up getting pregnant with me. And when she had me, she dropped out of college.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And she has said to me, and she has said to my two daughters-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Uh-huh.
- MRMel Robbins
... in particular, "I gave up everything-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... for your mother."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, imagine that subscript. Now, she said it blatantly, but we are saying this over the dinner table constantly, like, "How could you do that? Aren't you happy? I got you to the beach. Look, I p- enrolled you in dance classes, what do you mean you want to drop out?" It happens in the most subtle and also not so subtle ways, all the way from who you're going to marry, "How can you leave the traditions of our family system? Uh, the caste? The race?" In all sorts of ways, we have these invisible puppeteering strings tethered to our children and we keep them.
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Keep them to us. Because we have not empowered ourselves, and we haven't awakened ourselves into our own authenticity. You see, because we're not authentic, we're not living in our own power and knowing, we need our children to complete us. We need them to fulfill all that is unfulfilled within.
- MRMel Robbins
And if you are... and, uh, yes, and if you don't have kids yet, you feel this tether to your own parents-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
And, and-
- MRMel Robbins
... which is why there's that conflict between you being who you wanna be-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... but constantly defaulting and thinking to, "What are they gonna think about it?" And, you know, I'll be the first to admit that this behavior of feeling like, "Well, you owe me-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... I did everything I could-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... I paid for that, so I expect you to behave a certain way."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
This is the single biggest behavior and way of thinking that I am trying to break.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
It comes up all the time when I get triggered-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and when I then (imitates whooshing) wanna control-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... what somebody's doing-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- 22:49 – 29:43
What a controlling parenting style signals to your child.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
reason why I focus so much on parental control and the unmasking of it, versus giving strategies on how to get your kids to eat carrots and giving strategies-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... for what to say at bedtime, I'm like, "Screw the strategies."
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Because if you're coming from a split-off, disconnected, disempowered place of lack, it doesn't matter, because that is what your child (laughs) is going to absorb. Screw the carrots. Get in alignment with your own true self first, because children will pick up the bullshit, and they will absorb your anxiety. And the reason why we are robots in adult life, searching for love in all the w- wrong places, is because we were raised by parents who weren't authentically in their own body, in their being, in their presence. We were raised disconnected, so our first primary relationship was disconnected-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... and we're walking around like zombies looking for connection through the corporate corner office, through the Botox, through the jewelry, through the Maseratis, because we're searching for that thing on the outside because we never cultivated it on the inside. So, that's the work I do with parents. And parents get really upset with me because they're like, "Oh, you didn't give me the three keys to fix my child's, you know, social media addiction." I say, "Because they are not the problem only." Of course they become eventual problems, but it starts in the parents' psyche.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
The child is born in the parents' psyche. How is the parent perceiving the child? And the parent will perceive the child based on how the parent perceives themselves. So, our relationship with our children is, just like every intimate relationship, a mirror of how we relate to ourselves.
- MRMel Robbins
Which is why your entire philosophy about conscious parenting and having an awakening yourself-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... is important for all of us.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So, why don't we start with, then, the positive definition of what is a parent's job?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Because I can see-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that I've been trying to control.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I can see-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... the legacy of-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah, yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... "You owe me."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"I gave up my..."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"I gave you life."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
"I paid for your life."
- 29:43 – 33:08
Why it is so hard for parents to release control over their children.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
do in the parenting journey, isn't it? Because they literally, at least biologically, come from you. So for the parent to conceive that, "I don't own this being, I don't possess this being, and I shouldn't control this being," is unfathomable, because you're like, "What the hell? It came from here. Look, I have these stretch marks. Look, I have all this cellulite. It came from me. It's mine." So conscious parenting really has its underpinnings in Eastern spirituality and meditation, and therefore, it's a deeper philosophy than just strategies to fix the perfect-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... to create the perfect child. Until people understand that our biggest plague in humanity is our desire to impose control, possession, ownership over others, they will not understand what I'm saying. So this is really a call to something bigger than parenting. It's an awakening of humanity to understand that...... our children, our partners, our lovers, our f- siblings. Each of us has our own unique destiny, and whenever that destiny doesn't match with ours, it creates panic because we all want to be mirrored, we all want to be enmeshed, because we're hungry for that validation. But if we realize that that validation needs to come from within, and each one of us has the complete freedom to live our own path, now we can walk by each other's side without the need to micromanage and fly free to a destiny of our own making. But that takes supreme inner empowerment, and inner discernment, inner boundaries, inner power. So, that's what I'm teaching parents. Enter your own power, because when you enter your own power and claim it, you will not need your children to be a certain way, look a certain way, and they will f- fly free to a destiny that is glorious. But you have to trust that, and that takes supreme maturity and it takes a wholeness of self.
- MRMel Robbins
Let's just ... And as you're listening to Dr. Shefali, I want you to think about a battle for control-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you have right now-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... with either, uh, a child-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that you're parenting.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Or if you're not a parent-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... think about a significant other.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
You want them to exercise more.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
You want them to eat healthy.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
You want them to be more, uh, proactive at their job.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
You wish they weren't such a slob. And so you're in this-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
All lovely things. Lovely things.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
And, and, and, and in your heart-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
You're a good person. Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Y- you're a good person and you know that this is, like-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
To help them.
- MRMel Robbins
... gonna ... who they could be and it's gonna help them-
- 33:08 – 36:16
How to stop making your parent, child, or significant other the enemy.
- MRMel Robbins
making your child or your significant other or your parents the enemy?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Because you realize that the only reason people are enemies to us is because they've triggered something deep within us that we haven't healed. There is no enemy, really, on the outside, except for people who physically subjugate you. And even then, they're not real enemies, because ultimately, mental liberation is an inner job. So, in terms of psychological enemies, those are created by your own unhealed self, I'm sorry to say. After a certain age, now children who tell me that they are being emotionally abused by their parents, those children I will fully validate and I will call the parents to task. But after a certain age, I tell those children, if they've grown up, after 21, I say, "Okay, it's time for you to release the unconsciousness your parents burdened you with and all the suffering that they indoctrinated you with. It's time to release them and now to parent yourself," because I believe every human is a parent to their own inner child.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. That's beautiful. Every human is a parent to their own inner child. I love that. What do you do if you're listening right now-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... Dr. Shefali, and you're having this kinda heaviness-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... in your heart-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... because you're really, maybe for the first time, giving yourself permission to see your experience-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... as a child-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and to realize that-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... your parents did not-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... give you what you needed-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that there was this battle for control, that you do-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... feel this sense of obligation-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and undying loyalty, and you didn't-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... feel seen.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
What is your advice to somebody who's kind of having that awakening-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... of what their experience has been?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah. So, that realization is huge. Coming to that awareness, although it's a heavy awareness to come to, is actually the first step of disrupting patterns and healing generational pain. We actually cannot avoid that trauma of that realization, that, "Holy shit. I wasn't honored for who it is I was," or, "I've been living a lie," or, "I've been living inauthentically." In fact, if a person doesn't come to the, the humble footsteps of that realization, they haven't really begun the awakening process. That is the first step of coming to your knees and going, "Holy shit. I've been living a lie. Oh my God, I didn't see this. Where have I been living? I didn't realize this about myself. I've been living as a puppet to my parents' fantasies for all this time. I've been lying to my authentic self." That is the key. So, to come to that realization is the jewel, but it comes with pain. So now, can we tolerate that pain and then take the next step forward? So, what is the next step? Okay, now
- 36:16 – 39:46
The importance of having compassion for where your parents came from.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
let's have compassion for where our parents came from. They only did what they did to the level of consciousness they had. We all operate only to the degree of consciousness we have. We're not good or bad. I stay away from those labels. We are all on a spectrum of consciousness to unconsciousness at any given point in time. So, once we come to that wisdom, we can see their pain. We can see that they did not parent themselves. We can see that our grandma and grandpa were really, you know... Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes. Cold.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, then we have compassion.... and we have compassion for our mistakes with our children, and we don't go back and berate ourselves, because that's, again, continuing the cycle of low worth and scarcity. And then, we begin to start in the here and now. No matter how old your child is, no matter how old you are, no matter how many marriages or divorces, the moment to begin living an awakened life is available right here, right now. And it's difficult to get your mind out of the resentments and regrets of the past, but it is in our power to bring that mind to the beauty and abundance that this moment allows for you.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna thank you for highlighting the fact that when you start to have this awakening, that you don't wanna do things the same way that your parents or grandparents did, that you want to truly have this awakening of taking control of yourself and your life and the way that you go through life, that there is this knee-jerk reaction, especially on social media, to just judge-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. Cancel.
- MRMel Robbins
... and call people toxic-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Cancel them.
- MRMel Robbins
... and cancel and cut your parents out-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Mm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and all that stuff-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and I am so happy that you just highlighted (clears throat) this idea-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that first of all, this is their first time being human beings.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Absolutely.
- MRMel Robbins
And how could you expect somebody who was probably-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... raised in a very-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... troubling manner to somehow magically evolve?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm not excusing any, like, abuse or-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... or, like, anything-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... that was done to any of us-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... but really bringing a lens of compassion-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to, "Oh, somebody is repeating the patterns-"
- 39:46 – 42:41
Conscious parenting is not a label. it’s this instead.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
you know, I'm a conscious parent," I go, "Oh, you poor thing." (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Because there is no such thing as a label, right?
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Consciousness is a calling, it's a striving, it's a quest, it's a daily cultivation, and it's not a journey of perfection. It's not a destination. It is actually the most grueling process of constantly looking at your florid ego in its face.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, you know, I'll, I'll share with you as you're listening to Dr. Shefali and I, that I am so excited that my adult daughters are both in therapy.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Because I've said to them, "Please."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"Like, talk about all the things-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... I did wrong."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"Please."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"Like, let's heal the things-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... that I did wrong. Tell me what"-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... patterns that I have"-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... that are not working for you."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"If you felt unseen or invalidated, if I was-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... a control freak, if I was checked out, your experience-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... is exactly right, and I can do better." And so giving yourself permission to evolve, giving your-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Children.
- MRMel Robbins
... p- your children-
- 42:41 – 45:00
How to start letting go of control.
- MRMel Robbins
How do you start to let go of control?" Because-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... I think we control because it's the way that we feel better. We don't feel anxious. Like, we're trying-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to, to... Like, one of the reasons why I control is because I'm so worried something's gonna happen to my kids.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
I'm so worried-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... about them-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and-How do you start?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Well, it's, it's really a practice, and it takes work. And I know parents don't wanna hear that, they want the one, two, three, but I wrote the one, two, three in this book called The Parenting Map, uh, because parents were asking me for the steps. But really, the steps are about, number one, uncovering your own childhood conditioning. You've got to do the work. You've got to go back and understand how you are carrying your internal mother, how your, you've internalized your mother, and your father. Sorry, you have to do that work.
- MRMel Robbins
Yep.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So you work with a coach, a therapist. And the second thing, which I teach, is you have to awaken to really what life is about. And what life is about, in a very simple way, is the present moment, the impermanence and fragility of death, and the absolute relinquishment of control over ourselves or another human being.
- MRMel Robbins
I wanna talk about a topic that, um, listeners around the world are writing in about, and it is the documented and alarming spike in depression and anxiety-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and mental health issues-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... particularly in young adults.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And when I hear a lot of experts talk about it-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... they just talk in broad strokes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
Can you help us understand-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... the various factors that have gone into this spike? Because I feel like-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... I don't know what to stop controlling.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs)
- 45:00 – 51:42
How to help someone dealing with anxiety and depression, instead of controlling them.
- MRMel Robbins
that on a topic where you've got somebody that you really care about that's deeply, like, in the spiral-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Okay.
- MRMel Robbins
... of anxiety or depression?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Okay. So there're several layers to your question. So number one, what do we do with all this disease that we're seeing?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Really dis-ease from within.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
It is a symbol and a symptom of inner disconnect, right? We're, we're disconnected. And while we were always, I think, disconnected, since the birth of the Agricultural Revolution and technology and industrialization, in the past 30 years, we have seen technology in front of our eyes take over our lives, to the point where we are using technology as proxy, proxies, as surrogates for relationships. Now, children need presence. They need a parent who embodies the here and now attunement and alignment in order to thrive. Now, when the parent is constantly distracted on a screen, using the screen as a proxy for their own anxiety management-
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... as medication, the child now is not getting the source of warmth, of connection, of soothing, safety, security, significance from the primary caregiver. It's also beginning to rely on the same proxies. So, this is why we have seen a greater incline in mental disease now than ever before, because our proxies have (laughs) multiplied. We have a proxy in the back pocket, we have a proxy in the car, we have a proxy in the back of the car, in the trunk we have batteries and chargers and adapters and 10 devices. So we are now replacing human-to-human connection, which is the core foundational essence of, quote unquote, "good parenting" -
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... with these proxies. So our children are feeling that lack. So, mental health is rising. I know it's a broad answer. What do we do about it, right? What do we do? We take our children in our charge soon. We don't wait for the schools to relinquish technology. We can do it at home. Each parent has the power in their own microcosm at home to increase connectivity with their children. If we want to raise children who are secure, well-empowered in adulthood, they require the first 10 years of true presence. It doesn't mean daily, moment-by-moment presence, but it's the embodiment of that, of that energy. So we have to do away with the screens. We have to be de-cluttered in our own schedules, in our own agendas, cut out all the 10,000 activities. All of that is a waste of time, for the most part. Focus on the connection between parent and child or siblings, and keep it simple. You know, what happened in the pandemic was really a, a tragedy in many ways in so many people's lives, but it was a call back to simplicity, a call back to consciousness, a call back to connection. But now we've lost it again. So you will see this rise continuing, because children know that they're missing. They can feel it. They're like, "Where are my connected parents? Why am I not in nature? Why am I sitting in front of this plastic, one-dimensional screen, clicking on buttons that are artificial?" They sense it, and their psych- psyche suffers.
- MRMel Robbins
So Dr. Shefali, are you saying that modern parenting, where we are parenting with a phone in our hand and we ourselves are not present-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... because we are on the screen and we are distracted-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and we are over-scheduled and we are anxious and worried, is the direct cause of the anxiety that our kids are feeling?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
I mean, it makes sense.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah, but l- but-...the parent, if I, if, we can't blame the parent because-
- MRMel Robbins
I don't mind.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... be-
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I'll take the blame.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, I see, I see my responsibility.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. But the, but g- but greater than that, like instead-
- MRMel Robbins
Yeah.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... of just focusing on the parent, we have to see it as a system of parents, right? Uh, an industr- I call it the parenting industrial complex.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm-hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
This is not just one parent. The parent is being swallowed by a system, and the system is to be called to task, and it takes people like us who are out there with a microphone to, to be the harbingers of a new tomorrow where we inform parents, "Hey, you can do it differently. Just because everyone in the neighborhood is doing it this way, I'm here to tell you, it's harmful. Listen. Pay heed." Of course it takes courage, but there is a way to do things differently, and that's what I teach.
- 51:42 – 54:18
Simple things parents can do to model being in the present moment.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
And I think what parents are not realizing, because they are medicating themselves, you see, on this drug, they're not realizing is that this drug is no different to the child's brain than alcohol or crack cocaine or, or anything that you would immediately say, "No way, it's not entering my house." How have we allowed this to happen? We've allowed it to happen because we, the parent, get soothed and medicated on this drug.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
It's an intoxicant for us. It's taking us away from that anxiety I've been talking about. So, what I encourage parents to do is that, A, it's not too late. Let's clean up your own house, your internal house, and your own life. Begin with you. Start with an hour a day of screen-free time where you are just present. And the parents go, "But then my kid will do nothing. My kid will just be bored. My kid will just be on the couch." And I say, "That's amazing." That's what we need. We don't need to do, we need to be together-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... in the space of this oneness energy. Like, what is so scary about that, right? Because we've just filled our life with this constant need for distraction. So the parent has to become disciplined. Start with an hour. Start with 30 minutes, or like you say, five minutes a day, right? Just start there where you say, "Okay, this is a screen-free moment where we're going to just be. We're gonna be bored, we're gonna be frustrated, we're gonna be with our feelings, we're gonna be annoyed with each other, we're going to be authentic. We're not gonna numb or dissociate." When the parent begins to practice that, and there will be protests and there will be a strong withdrawal, right, where they're going to detox and they're going to drive you crazy, then the ripple effect will start. But the parent has to seize that moment and, and realize that this is a drug that is in your house and your kids are vaping it every minute.
- MRMel Robbins
And, and this comes back to your core message, which is, it is all about your own awakening.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And we're so busy trying to control-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... what everybody else-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... is doing-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and the kids are on the phone-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and you're complaining about it while you're looking at your phone.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And so it starts-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... with you.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, one thing that we did that was hugely helpful is there's a basket in the kitchen-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... with a charger.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And phones are not allowed at our table.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
Like, you're not allowed to have them when we're having meals together-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and the basket helps define the boundary.
- 54:18 – 58:19
How social media is impacting children and their ability to connect.
- MRMel Robbins
how is social media, Dr. Shefali, impacting children and their ability to connect?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Oh. You know, and I know it's been talked about a lot, but I think it's never enough.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Um-... how disconnecting social media is. You know, what used to be a photo on your fridge being commented upon by your nasty auntie is now out there for the world to comment on. And young children, teenagers especially, are not equipped to handle that degree of self-criticism, that degree of scrutiny, judgment, scorn, degradation, racism, ageism, sexism. They're not yet equipped. So, when we allow our children to be exposed to this vast milieu of strangers and their toxicity into your child's life, you're actually not protecting your children.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right? Just like you wouldn't let them go and travel the world e- when they're eight, because who knows who they will meet and can they navigate the, the scary, risky territories of the unknown foreign country, in the same way, giving your child access to strangers in such an indiscriminate way is like saying, "Here, go. Go, go. If you get raped, if you get, you know, damaged, if you get stolen from, oh well," you know? That's what's happening to our children's psychology, and that's why our children are showing acute signs of distress. Are we listening? Uh-
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
We're not.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
We're not.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
I, I think everybody's out to lunch.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Because we are, we've, we've disappeared, we've disconnected even more, right? And, and this is because we as parents are not grounded in our own present moment. The present moment scares us so much that we're so relieved, right? If you look at any bus stop, any train station, where are we looking? Down on our phones. I'm guilty of this 100%, and I have to catch myself and go, "Oh, my goodness, where did the last 10 minutes go?" And life is telling us, life, life is always reminding us, "Hey, listen, I'm fragile. Don't waste me. I'm not here forever. Pay attention to me, I'm beautiful. I am your greatest dopamine hit. I am the greatest intoxicant of, of euphoria. Pay attention to me, I'm for free." Life is always beckoning to us, but we're not paying attention. Then we have children and we don't pay attention. Then we have the relationship and we don't pay attention. And then, we have the terminal illness. Maybe then we'll pay attention.
- MRMel Robbins
Well, the invitation today is to wake the hell up and start paying attention.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes, yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Because if I'm hearing you correctly, the only way to get your kids or your teens off their phones is to get yourself off yours first.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And to be more present?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
Because what you'll find when you are more present-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... is how sad you feel-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and how m- disconnected you are-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... as you sit with your family and everybody's on their phone.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. A- and-
- MRMel Robbins
Is there, like, a script that you have? 'Cause I would imagine that there's going to be a lot of you listening to this, especially if you have adult kids-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- 58:19 – 1:01:17
You NEED to hear this if you’re a parent feeling guilty about the past.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
it's about the present moment, right? So now, what do I do tomorrow or today with my child right here, right now? Well, we do- we don't (laughs) tell our child, "You know what? I heard Dr. Shefali and Mel talk about the phone, let's throw away our phones." You don't do that, you don't come attacking with your sermons and your lectures and your wisdom. You begin to show up with a curiosity about who it is they are. You begin to show up with, um, this desire to know who it is they are as humans. No human, I believe, will turn away from another human who's genuinely curious about them.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Whenever I'm with my adult daughter now and I want to control her, I always switch it to, "If you're not curious about her, if you don't seek to understand her, zip your mouth."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right? I shift it to, "Change your desire to control, to fix, to opinionate, to sermonize, to lecture, to preach, to give a history lesson, to be curious about your child. Show up as interested. Look at them as if they're the most amazing human being. Every single bud of a child will blossom into a flower under that gaze. There's no human being, it may take time depending on the ravages of the wreckage of the past, but no human being will turn down from somebody who's looking at them as if they're the only person on Earth. Now, if you begin to look at your child and give them that unconditional, whole presence, without tarnishing them, without seeking to fix, micromanage, do their hair, change their clothes, give them advice, they will blossom under your gaze. They will come to you like a flower to the sun. It is human nature. This is what we are seeking at the most desperate level. This is the reason why we go to our phones. So, if you go beneath-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... to the need, "Why are our children going to the phones, why are we going to the phones? It's because it gives us safety, it gives us security, it allows us to check out from our anxiety." Okay. So now, if I can provide that for my child and for my loved ones, they will come to me. They will, they will prefer me over the phone. But you have to become that energy. You have to become the energy greater than the phone. You have to be the dopamine hit bigger than the phone. You have to be the attractant larger than life. N- a- and I'm not saying wear a clown suit and do gymnastics and back wheels. You just have to show up with that unconditional curiosity and acceptance and validation and celebration of the other human being, and they will come to you.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this. I love this 'cause it's within your power-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... to shift yourself-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and to radiate something different.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
And I can see that I often, in the past, have led with, "I'm gonna criticize."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. (laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
"I am gonna try to control what you're doing."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah. Right.
- MRMel Robbins
If I shift that to, "How can I be connected to you and how can I be curious about you?"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
So lead with the curiosity and the connection. Let that radiate.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. I tell every parent, "When you are
- 1:01:17 – 1:05:00
Parenting expert says to check this when sitting with someone you love.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
sitting with your child or another loved human being, check your energy. How are you showing up? You take care of how you are showing up, the, the shine in your eyes, the tilt of your chin toward them, the, the unremitting gaze upon them. And if you keep aligning to that presence, sooner or later, the person in your presence will feel that energy and they will gravitate, they will be magnetized to you."
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
But you see, because we don't believe we have that inner power, we don't capitalize on it, right? So what I tell parents is so easy on one level, but oh, so difficult on another, because it requires the parent to believe they are the beacon, they are who the child wants. The child wants you. Your loved one wants you, but they want an uncontaminated you, a healed you, a whole you. Every human being wants to be in the presence of somebody who is whole. That's why we go to spiritual teachers, because they've done that work. We feel free in their presence. So that's the calling that I want parents to rise to.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, I did this episode that was all about time, and the, uh, passing of time-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and how by the time that your kids are 18 years old, you've spent 90% of the time that you have with them.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And I said during that episode that, um, I'm really conscious about being present-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... with our son, Oakley-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... because he's a senior in high school and he is heading off to college, and I wanna make the most of the time that I have with him.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And Dr. Shefali, it was like an avalanche-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs) Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... hit our inbox.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
There are so many parents-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and their adult children-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... that listen to this show.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
And it was like this real kind of rallying cry-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... about being present with the time that you have-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and just kinda the sense that it's really fleeting.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
So as somebody's listening to this and they're feeling like that window of time has passed, the kids have grown up, they're adults, they've moved on-
- 1:05:00 – 1:06:47
What unconditional love is really showing.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right? We often think of love as a two-way street, that, "Okay, I'll show you love as long as I get something back." But what I encourage all of us to do, but especially with our children, is don't love your children to get something back, to post on Facebook that your children come to you with every problem. (laughs) That's for your ego. You love your children because you are the emblem of that. You radiate with that, and let the universe do its work. So, that is in our power again.
- MRMel Robbins
Wow, it is so hard to just be love-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs) Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... without the expectation of it being returned, because I do think a lot of the pattern that's been passed down from generation to generation is the transactional nature of love-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Absolutely.
- MRMel Robbins
... that, "I am doing this for you, therefore you must love me."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"I am paying for this, therefore you must behave a certain way."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
This sort of tit for tat.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
You know, as, as somebody's listening, there's a lot of listeners around the world who are seeking greater connection-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... with their kids-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(sighs)
- MRMel Robbins
... as they're moving through high school and into college, and they're young adults in their 20s. So right at the time where there's a biological imperative for your child to separate-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... what advice do you have for parents who are trying to be more connected-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... with their adult kids-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... as-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... the kids really are craving their independence?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. So when we say, "Connect to your adult child," it's not about being in close proximity if that's not what the child desires. When we say, "Connect to the adult child," it's connect to the need developmentally that the child needs to exhibit. And the developmental need of an adult child
- 1:06:47 – 1:08:36
Do this to connect with your adult child.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
is to leave the roost.... so connect to that need, meet that need-
- MRMel Robbins
How do I do that? (laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... which is so, uh, right, which is so counter because it's not meeting my need. You see, the battle is my need to have you be my proxy surrogate medicine to make me feel good.
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Don't take away my drug.
- MRMel Robbins
No.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Exactly. So (laughs) the ch- but what does the child need, developmentally?
- MRMel Robbins
To live their life-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
To-
- MRMel Robbins
... and to leave.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... to leave, to take risks, to f- f- up, to be a failure, to learn, to fly. That is, that is what they came to this earth to do. You did your job by getting them to this place. And now, if you hold them back through tentacles of guilt and shame and control, you're clipping the very wings you worked so hard to help expand.
- MRMel Robbins
Because holding onto somebody else not only robs you of somebody else flying into their destiny, it actually robs you of flying into yours.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Correct, because it's not the authentic thing to do. When the authentic thing to do is to release and you're grasping, both the one you're grasping and you shrivel and die.
- MRMel Robbins
(smacks lips)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, are you ready for your next iteration? You don't even know who the next Mel is going to be. We all better watch out, because you have no idea what is going to be birthed within you when your last child leaves for college. Now, aren't you excited about that?
- MRMel Robbins
Well, now I am.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
You see?
- MRMel Robbins
Thank God Dr. Shefali's here.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
You see?
- MRMel Robbins
Yes, I do. And one thing that I am curious about though, because I know that so many of our listeners are worried about somebody that they love who's struggling.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
So, what is the balance
- 1:08:36 – 1:11:45
What is the balance between support and control?
- MRMel Robbins
between support-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... versus control?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, here's the thing. When we see people in pain, our children, anyone, especially our children, it brings up all our own unprocessed issues with pain, 'cause we hate pain, and we haven't truly befriended pain in our lives. Psychological pain exists in our life for one reason only.
- MRMel Robbins
What is it?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
We are resisting the as is.
- MRMel Robbins
What does that mean?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
We're fighting reality. My child is leaving for college. I'm panicking because I don't know who I am without my child, I don't like my partner, and this is going to bring all my couple's issues to the fore, and I need my child to be around. Or, I have a terminal illness, and I thought I was more special. I should not have a terminal illness. Or, I got fired from a job, and how could that happen to me? We are resisting reality in the here and now. So, when we keep resisting pain, pain becomes bigger, it doesn't go away. So, what is pain here to teach you? To surrender.
- MRMel Robbins
Mm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
When we surrender, we not only release the pain, the pain actually becomes shrunken. We expand into the next evolution. Now, these sound like pretty words, but every human being who has been through pain will hear the resonance and echoes of wisdom in what I'm saying. For those who have not yet had the, the (laughs) privilege of pain in their lives, I am not worried, because pain comes to all, you know? I tell my clients all the time, "You know, you're not ready because you're not in pain enough, so come back to me when there's more pain. Because when there's more pain, then the ego will be ready to release its dogmatism, 'I need to have it my way,' and I will release to the, to the surrender of the is-ness."
- MRMel Robbins
If there's somebody that's in a lot of psychological pain right now-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... and intellectually-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... they get it-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Uh-huh.
- MRMel Robbins
... that this pain is here to teach me how to surrender-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... how to accept what is-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and how to accept what isn't-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... how to accept what is not in my control-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... how to discover my okayness-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes, that, and that's-
- MRMel Robbins
... and ability.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
That's the next step though. So, after the, "Okay, it's here to teach me," you just hit on the second step.
- MRMel Robbins
Which is?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
"Oh, my goodness, I have to now discover that I can be okay. Oh, shit, I don't know how to do that because I've never been okay." That is the work. And so every difficult moment in life is about a marriage to your own deepest self and your own inner power, which is abundant within us, but we've been divorced from it. So, pain is here, our children are here, the hardship in life is here to take you back to the wisdom that you can be okay no matter what. And that's a beautiful homecoming, isn't it?
- 1:11:45 – 1:15:25
How to rebuild a relationship that you feel you grew apart from.
- MRMel Robbins
the first step to rebuilding a relationship with especially a child that's older that you feel like you really screwed up or you've grown apart-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah.
- MRMel Robbins
... from-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... or you just are like, you've been listening-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... to you today-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and you're like, "I want that back."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. Yes. So first, just because you want it doesn't mean you're gonna get it immediately, right? So, when you truly awaken, you will stop wanting it to look a particular way. You will then, the next step is, take accountability, right? So, write that letter, send that text saying, "You know what? I have finally realized" (laughs) "that your grandmother" (laughs) "screwed me up and I'm so sorry." You know, just let your children know that you've been working on your shadow.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
And now you see how you have been unconscious. And it may not land as authentic to your children at first, because children are always skeptical and they don't really believe us because we have so hoodwinked them so many times, it may take a while, but when you consistently show up in your own truth, in your own state of abundant love...... maybe one day your child will be ready to come back into the fold. But if you rush it, if you dictate it, if you are hungry for it, you will reset the same dysfunctional cycle. Your child owes you nothing. Parents don't like when I say that.
- MRMel Robbins
Your child owes you nothing?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Your child owe... No human being owes you anything. I know, I know, I'm sorry.
- MRMel Robbins
Why is it important to embrace the truth that your child owes you nothing?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
No human owes us anything. When we say, "Someone else owes us something," that is being said with authority, entitlement, ownership, possession, and we own or possess nobody, least of all our children. We only, (laughs) if at all, barely own our own self right here, right now, in this little moment. So, wha- this sounds disempowering, I know, but it's actually hugely liberating. When you realize, "Who the hell am I trying to control? The universe is going to continue on. I'm an irrelevant speck on the mote of a sunbeam," when I get that, deeply, life becomes beautiful. It becomes... Laila, play a beautiful dance, because you've released the need for validation, significance from others and binding them to us. That's the greatest liberation.
- MRMel Robbins
I do think that, like, 90% of the stress and agita that we cause ourselves is by trying to control other people and trying to get what we want out of life from the love and the validation and the respect by controlling other people.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
And what you're saying is when you start to live your life and tell yourself the truth, "Nobody owes me anything-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... my job is to awaken myself-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... to give myself the validation and the love-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... to radiate the connection and the love that I want from other people-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"... and then everything magically-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yep.
- MRMel Robbins
"... aligns with that." I wanna talk a little bit just about boundaries-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- 1:15:25 – 1:19:55
The TRUTH about boundaries.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
to do with the other person.
- MRMel Robbins
How so?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, if I don't want you to drink that water-
- MRMel Robbins
Yes.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... I will th- the, the old self may think, "Oh, I'm gonna tell her, 'Can you not... Can you please not drink that water? Can you please not drink that water? Can you please not drink that water?'"
- MRMel Robbins
And you know what I'm gonna think? "Bitch, who do you think you are? I'm not thirsty. You don't tell me what to do."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Exactly. Correct.
- MRMel Robbins
"And then I'm gonna wanna drink the water 'cause you told me..." Yeah.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
And then I'm gonna be really upset. I'm like, "I told you what I want. I made a boundary. I said it clearly." And then l- because I'm deluded to think that I get to tell you in the way of a boundary. Okay, so what is a true boundary? "I see you really need to drink that water. I think it's really unhealthy. You're gonna have a huge bout of diarrhea-
- MRMel Robbins
(laughs)
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
"... and I just... I'm too... I can't handle it because I'm just not, you know, able to watch that, so I'm going to leave right now."
- MRMel Robbins
So, your boundary is about your behavior, and what you will allow and what you won't, and what you'll stay present for and what you won't.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Correct. So how does it relate to children, right? I can't leave the toddler who's putting his fingers into everything, cookie dough and, you know, toxic stuff. This is what you do. You s- take it away, right? You don't bring the cookies into the house, instead of haranguing them every day, "Don't eat the cookies. Don't eat the cookies. Don't eat the cookies." You become the boundary. So, you have to think, "Oh, I just need to take away the WiFi. Oh, I can (laughs) do that? I have permission to do that in my own house?" That's it.
- MRMel Robbins
You w- You know what? That would be the single best thing to do to get everybody off the phones.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes. I used to lie to my three-year-old daughter all the time that the park was closed in the evening. I was like, "I'm so sorry, we can't go. The park is closed." So, I created a boundary as in, "S- it's, it's not me. We can't go to the park," or just take away the WiFi. And children don't understand, so you can make up things like, "Oh, I wouldn't eat that cake. It's really spicy." You know, you may have to lie a little bit. You have to be creative. But what I'm basically saying is make it, uh, a condition in the house versus giving control to the other. When you keep begging the other to follow your boundary, you're actually disempowering yourself because you're holding them as the holders of your, of your dignity, of your control. You don't give your power to someone else. Don't, don't be hostage to someone listening to you or not. You know, I tell women all the time, this took me f- like, 40 years to, to realize myself, "Oh, I have two legs for (laughs) a reason. Like, I can walk away." Like, what a concept. So, what that means is you create the conditions to rise. Don't ask another to follow or not follow.
- MRMel Robbins
I love this, that boundaries are about you and your own dignity-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... and do not give it to somebody else to enforce your dignity.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
You have two legs for a reason-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right, right. If the... if, if-
- MRMel Robbins
... to rise-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right.
- MRMel Robbins
... to walk out the door-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Or take it away.
- MRMel Robbins
... and if you don't have two legs, get in your wheelchair-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
(laughs)
- MRMel Robbins
... and wheel out the door.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right. Or if... every day, right, parents tell me, "I'm fighting with my children every day." "Okay, what are you fighting about?" "Well, because they just eat junk food." "Okay, who bought the junk food?" "I did, but that's not the point." I'm like, "Okay, that is the point." "Okay, I'm fighting with my kid every day because they won't get off the phone." "Who got the phone?" "I did, but then they yell at me." "Oh, so you can't handle that," right? Or the TV. I mean, there are only four or five things that our kids obsess over.
- MRMel Robbins
What are the four or five things that parents constantly come...
- 1:19:55 – 1:23:50
What to do when someone you love is in a destructive relationship.
- MRMel Robbins
the person that you love-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... shrinking.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
How do you handle that?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah. You do the both/and. You say, "You know what? I see this. My stomach can't take it. I know you may grow into the most beautiful butterfly from this, but I don't have the stamina, I don't have the guts, I don't have the... I can't do this. You know? Please help me. Forgive me. I need to move away from this relationship right now. I love you. I'm here for you. But when you are with this person-
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
... I cannot engage, because I'll be lying to you. I'll be lying, pretending that I'm here for you." Now, that's in the most toxic of environments, right? In other situations, and we've all had this with our girlfriends, right? We don't just jump ship because we see them in trouble. We actually... We let them know. We do the both/and. "I'm letting you know, but I'll stick around as long as I can, but if I feel like it's getting to a point where it's red flag, then I need to disconnect so that you miss me enough that you will sit with yourself to go within to ask, 'Why did she leave me?'"
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right? "I want to make you uncomfortable so that you can do the inner work. I don't want to go, but I see this is so harmful to you and you don't see it. So I'm going to extricate myself with love, but I'm always here, I'm just not gonna be around this dynamic." It's really hard to do with finesse, but you have to make it very clear to your friend or your child, "I love you. I'm a- I am not abandoning you. I'm abandoning my inability. I- I cannot handle this." So again, I create the boundary.
- MRMel Robbins
Uh, I love this. I love this. It's very empowering. Not easy.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Not easy.
- MRMel Robbins
But very empowering. And you can see how this can work, because if you stay in the dynamic and you lie-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... it props the dynamic up.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yeah. You enable it.
- MRMel Robbins
If you leave the dynamic-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
... and you make it clear that, "I love you."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Mm-hmm.
- MRMel Robbins
"This is what I see-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... and I'm worried about you. I can't be a part of this dynamic-"
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
"... so I'm gonna remove myself."
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
You know they're gonna sit with it-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... because your decision, which is coming from your truth-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- 1:23:50 – 1:26:00
THIS is the greatest act of love.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
to be free and authentic themselves." The greatest act of love is to follow your own authenticity, because then you free others to discover theirs.
- MRMel Robbins
Hmm. That's so true. So Dr. Shefali, you say that a midlife crisis can be a very good thing. Why?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Any crisis, but especially those at midlife, are potent invitations to the threshold of a new beginning. Why midlife? What happens at midlife is that we've checked off all the, you know, many of the things on the prescription list that culture, our parents told us, "If you do this and you do that, and you do that, and you have the children, you live in the neighborhood with a fi- You're going to be happy." And you're like, "Okay. I've done, you know, 37 of the 45, and happiness is not looking any closer. You know, I'm actually in a worse place today with (laughs) my four children, and I'm bankrupt and, you know, I'm not connected to my partner."
- MRMel Robbins
Divorced, and I'm this-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Right, right.
- MRMel Robbins
... and I... Yeah.
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, wow. Now is the opportunity to realize that you were sold a lie, that that prescription list that you were holding onto and, and checking off so valiantly, and showing the world, "You see me-"... now needs to be torn because it was all a mirage. It was a lie, it was a bag of goods. And now, the invitation is to curate and create a life that is authentically designed by your inner knowing.
- MRMel Robbins
If you've spent your whole life though checking the list and following the prescription of society-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Which is everybody, almost.
- MRMel Robbins
... which is everybody-
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
Yes.
- MRMel Robbins
... how the hell do you figure out what a life that's authentically yours based on your inner kn- Like, how do you even know?
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
You don't have to really figure it out because your life will eventually fall apart because it's based on a prescription list, therefore it wasn't authentic. It is going to fall apart. It just happens more at mid-life, you know why? Because our children, the youngest ones typically, grow up into teenagers and use you as a chauffer and a wallet, and you are no longer mommy or mother, and they don't like you very much because they've seen your bullshit.
- 1:26:00 – 1:28:03
What to do if you start asking yourself “what now?”
- STDr. Shefali Tsabary
So, that's when you go, "Holy cow, even my last child doesn't like me anymore. Now what?" Right? "They're leaving the roost, now what?" Or, you know, "I lost the 25 pounds, now what?" "I have the fancy job, now what?" It's that now what that allows you to, to ask what now, right? To come into the now. So, it is going to happen whether you like it or not. Either you beckon it, invite it, embrace it, and celebrate it, or it will happen to you, because we've mostly been living inauthentically. An inauthentic life cannot sustain itself, it will fall apart, and it should fall apart. What is falling apart is the ego. That is a good thing to dissolve, but we get terrified because then the next question is the deadly question, "Okay, then who am I?" But for the first time, you are asking it naked, raw, transparent, true, and now it will answer itself. The asking of the question is the direction toward the answer, but we're so scared to ask that we keep pretending we know.
Episode duration: 1:37:12
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