Modern Wisdom15 Harsh Psychology Facts That Will Make Your Life Better - Adam Lane Smith
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,006 words- 0:00 – 1:52
Intro
- ASAdam Lane Smith
A human impact is the purpose of a man's life. Because some day you will die. You will be dust. Your money will be frittered away and taken through taxes and all kinds of things. Your property will be divvied up. Everything you've cared for in your life will be taken away. The only thing that endures is the future generations who are fundamentally altered because of your existence on this planet. That is the purpose of a man's life. That is why so many men want to kill themselves now, is because they find no purpose and no ability to create human impact.
- CWChris Williamson
My favorite thing to do is troll through your Twitter and find interesting tweets to do with your history as a psychotherapist, as a couples therapist working on attachment issues, uh, pull them out, and then discuss them with you. So, that's what we're going to do today. And well, a- actually before we get started, for the people that haven't heard you before, because the show's grown a lot since the last time you were on, briefly, what's your background?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah. So, I was a psychotherapist for years, marriage and family therapist. And what I found through my training and through training other healthcare professionals was that attachment was the vehicle underneath that was driving all of the diagnoses that we saw in the book. But what they were teaching therapists was that they only needed to treat the diagnoses because nobody understands attachment theory. It is terribly misunderstood, and it became my obsession and my specialty. So, I've been training and experiencing this and everything, working with people on this for 15 years now through this process. I retired my license as a psychotherapist so that I could coach internationally and help people everywhere with attachment issues. And I am working hard to change this game that says attachment is just something women study when they want to cry more. And I'm teaching especially now men that I have found, and coaching men through fixing their attachment in a way that is practical and makes sense to them so that you can overcome a lifetime of dating problems, insecurities, fears, and everything else that comes with broken attachment.
- CWChris Williamson
Beautiful. Okay. My first favorite one that
- 1:52 – 9:59
Is Couple’s Therapy Pointless?
- CWChris Williamson
I picked up recently, "Most couples therapy is useless. Not because the therapy is wrong, but because most couples don't go to therapy together until one of them is absolutely not wanting to work on the relationship anymore. They're using therapy as an excuse to air their frustration one last time."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. So many times I've had couples come in, and that's exactly what it is, is one is all in for it and is convinced I'm gonna fix their partner and tell them that they've been right all along. And the other partner comes in dreading it because their partner is the one who set it up. And they say, "What? Uh, what sort of buzzsaw am I walking into?" And it is a miserable experience for all three people involved unless I can turn them around and convince the other partner that I'm there to help them. In which case, the first partner c- is convinced that I have somehow sp- pulled, pulled a switcheroo. And they are now going to get betrayed by their, by their coach now who's working with them. It's an ugly process. It is really ugly. The only time couples therapy really works is when they are coming in because they both want to make it work, but they don't have the skills and they have no idea what to do. If they both want to make it work, it's an amazing experience. If one of them doesn't want to work and doesn't have the guts to say it, it's a horrible experience for both people.
- CWChris Williamson
Why is it so rare for couples to go to couples therapy before the stage that one of them is basically ready to call it quits and needs, uh, an arbiter between the two of them?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Because most people do not have the skills they need to speak to their partner proactively and productively about the problems. So, they just pretend there aren't problems, or they throw anger and excuses at each other over and over and over again. One will try, the other withdraws. Then they switch, and the other one tries again and the other one withdraws. And they only vent to the people around them. They don't actually go out and get proactive solutions from the people around them. And their family system is usually broken, so they've never seen a healthy relationship. They think this is as good as it gets. They only seek professional help when one of them panics because the other one has made a change. And I will also say this. Women change for relationships typically. Men only will change for circumstances, which is reality. M- women will usually be done with a relationship a year or more before they're actually ready to get divorced. Men have no idea that this is coming. Men get blindsided, and they say, "Wait, I'm finally willing to give it a try. Let's try couples therapy," and she's been done for a year. So, this is a very common problem right there.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think that that explains part of the reason that most divorces are initiated by women?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely, uh, 100%. Because most women have spent 5, 10, 20 years changing for the relationship, hoping that her husband will secretly somehow change for the relationship, too. Men only change when they observe a problem, and then when they believe that there is a solvable problem there that they can actually work on. It takes both of those things for a man to actually work on something. Most men will only change enough to try to stop the discomfort that they're experiencing and try to go backward.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm. Yeah, it's, uh ... I, I have a, a number of friends that have either been through couples counseling or are going to couples counseling at the moment. And I would say that the archetype is as you've described, that it, it really is ... I- if this counseling was to make the relationship better, it is a severe uphill battle, uh-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... which I imagine from a therapist's perspective makes couples counseling, um, not exactly fun.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) So, I went through school, graduate program, six years for master's degree, and then additional three years of apprenticeship, of hard apprenticeship under clinicians. So, it's nine-year process to become a marriage and family therapist. Uh, nine years of training of them telling us, "You will want to, you will get burned out on this job. Couples therapy is hard. Couples don't actually usually get better. Very few of them do. It's hard work, and you have to completely detach from their outcomes, because otherwise you will drive yourself crazy watching one couple after another tear themself apart and there's nothing you can do to help them." This is the messaging they (laughs) gave us, and it was very true. You, you come in, you do the best that you can, and you guide them forward. And usually, the biggest piece that I would do is this, is get them to a point where they could say, "What got you together in the first place? Where do you have any commonalities? And where is there even a sliver of hope that both of you could work together on this? If there's even a tiny shred of hope, we can make this work." I, well, really briefly, one time, I had a couple come in to my coaching practice. They both had very, very bad attachment, very bad attachment. Neither one of them knew it. One of them was having an affair.... the other one wanted the relationship to work. The one who was having an affair wasn't sure if they wanted it to work or not. I educated them on attachment, first session, educated fully on attachment. Second session, got them working on bonding together and doing what couples are supposed to do. Third session, taught them communication skills and conflict resolution. By the fourth session when they walked in, both of them were happier in their relationship than they had ever been, even as newlyweds, even as ... While they were dating. They, they ... The person who was cheating said, "Absolutely not, I'm going to do this marriage." It's amazing. They had healed their attachment together, and they were now growing closer to their friends and their family at the same time. It only took three sessions of doing the deep work because both of them were committed to it. If a couple wants to make it work, even extreme circumstances can work, but you must both want to make it work.
- CWChris Williamson
How does a pair of people who have got ingrained responses, habituated thought patterns, uh, um, routines built into their communication style, the way they relate to each other, the way that they show up to each other, how can it be the case that three sessions is all that it takes to deprogram something which, at the very least we're taught should take 66 days to break and make a new habit?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's absolutely true. It's absolutely true. It's curious because here's the piece, is so many people are living with a decision they made when they were one year old that said, "I am scared. I am hurt. I am sad. I feel vulnerable. People will abandon me, or people will betray me. There is something wrong with me or with other people, and I am not ever going to be able to be open again because I will never be this hurt, this scared, this vulnerable ever again for the rest of my life." They don't even remember this decision. But that foundational belief has been set into their brain as an absolute fact of the universe. "Gravity pulls things down, water is wet, and love is impossible, and I must live in fear for the rest of my life to stay safe." That foundational belief, once you hear it and say, "Well, I have been believing that, but it's probably true," and someone comes in, an attachment expert comes in and says, "It is not true. Here's an alternate model for living that is possible. I want you to think about it over the next week and tell me if it's ruining your life or if this is something that we could fix," and they'll think about it, and it ruins it for them. And then they start seeing the matrix, and they say, "Wow, maybe there is two different ways to live, and maybe I've been living the wrong way. Maybe. I'm willing to learn," and then they learn it. Once you've got it intellectually, cool. Once you experience it, that's where it begins to change. Because when you experience the difference, your brain chemistry balances out, right? We've got ... I, I deal with the five big brain chemicals. There's more than this, but the five big ones we work, we look at: vasopressin, oxytocin, GABA, uh, gamma-Aminobutyric acid, and, uh, serotonin. Those four are absolutely crucial to get through your good relationships. If you don't have good relationships, you've got a dopamine button that you can punch like a monkey. This is where people have porn addiction and all kinds of addictions and phone addictions and gambling addictions. It's because their brain chemistry is off from their wounded relationships, that they've never been fulfilled. It is like a duck that is terrified of water, so it lives its whole life on land. It's like a duck who will never fly because it's terrified of the sky as well. It's a duck who is continuously walking 'cause it thinks water or flying is going to kill it. That's what these people are like. As they experience even a little bit, the overwhelming brain chemistry that floods through them from good relationships is like a duck who finally learns to swim or finally flies and says, "This is not just not scary. It is exhilarating. It's everything I was built for." Your brain is built for these things, and the addiction to the good takes over, and it heals you much more rapidly than most people are expecting. It is not about habits. It is about cultivating the right experiences so that your brain takes over for
- 9:59 – 12:46
The American School System Treats Boys Like Defective Girls
- ASAdam Lane Smith
you.
- CWChris Williamson
"The public school system treats boys like defective girls-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... and then raises girls to act more like boys. Check the CDC's medication rates for ADHD in boys and antidepressants in girls." What's going on there?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
The American school system is designed to churn people out in factory settings or churn people out into a prison setting or a corporate setting in a cubicle, and it is not designed for young boys who are not designed for corporations (laughs) or not designed for cubicles, prisons and, and factories. It is simply not going to work that way. So, it punishes people who stick out, and it medicates them down. We have the medical system here in America, the medical model of mental health. I work with the response model. If something is off, the person is not responding right, or the situation is not right. There's something happening where we need to change their response, not medicate them into oblivion because there's something wrong with their brain. Boys are not defective girls. Boys are boys, and we need to create a system for them.
- CWChris Williamson
Why the female set point? Why presume that boys should act like defective girls?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) It's the same reason that overseas, when American companies ship their jobs overseas, they usually pull in female workers into their sweatshops 'cause they are quiet. They are more compliant. They just sit there, they do what they're told, and they will-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... do the tiny tasks over and over and over and then go home without complaining. They are most unlikely to complain or cause a fuss. They will simply do what they're told. That is why. That's the model that we want here in America for boys.
- CWChris Williamson
So, you've got higher agreeableness, a little bit higher on average conscientiousness. I, I mean, you know, you look at the rates in schools at the moment, and girls are out-achieving boys when the, uh, Title IX and, you know, some adjustments have been made to the way that the education system works. And I think it, it is plain that the current version of schooling that you have is more suited to a female, uh, nature. Or you could, in reverse, say that female nature is more suited to the current iteration of, of schooling. Uh, there is a, a conspiracy out there that says that school has been purposefully sort of, um, reprogrammed to, um-... make it more difficult for boys. I would be much more tempted to presume that it's just a easier, it's not a coordinated effort to keep boys down by the school system, it's simply the way to have the most peaceful sort of classroom. And each-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... individual teacher is optimizing for the most peaceful classroom, which is the one where students aren't doing things with their hands, where they're not running around outside, where there's easily structured timetables, homework as opposed to exams, all of these sorts of things. They are, they are done out of convenience, not out of malign coordination.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely. That's, it, there's, there's enough idiocy in the world without bringing malice into it.
- 12:46 – 21:38
People Take Comfort in Diagnosable Labels
- CWChris Williamson
It's okay to be sad, that doesn't mean you're depressed. It's okay to be worried, that doesn't mean you're anxious. It's okay to experience trauma, that doesn't mean you have PTSD. Not everything is a diagnosable issue.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So many people hide behind a diagnosis and say, "I never have to get better." This is one of the biggest things with attachment issues too. People take an attachment styles quiz and say, "Oh, I'm anxious attachment, I will be that for the rest of my life." Absolutely not. That is the medical system that says, "You have a disease, we must treat you for the rest of your life. You will go through 10 years of therapy and take five medications." As a, when I was working as a psychologist, as a, as a psychotherapist, I did in-home treatment for people and some of my clients were on 27 different medications at the same time. And I would ask them what they were for, and they would not know, and at least 12 to 15 of those medications would be psychological medications. Some of them were four or five different antidepressants and then three different anxiety medications, and then some for panic disorder, and then some for, uh, who knows? Th- they just kept throwing 'em in. They had no idea. That's the American system right now. And if you have a diagnosis, it's not the end of your life, and not everything is a diagnosis. A diagnosis should just say, "Here's where you're starting, where are you going to go?"
- CWChris Williamson
There's something very reassuring in a way, I think, about pathologizing your emotions, about giving them a label. It's not that the world is unfair, that life is difficult, that sometimes bad things happen, people pass away, you become destitute or broke or, or ill or sick or your family members die. It's not that, it's that you have X or Y or Z.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
It is a forcing function, a convenient way to reduce down the complexity of the world. And I see it in myself, I see it in my friends, I see it in the people that, uh, talk about this sort of stuff online. It is a very seductive solution to try and have a label that you can place behind something. It's not that your sleep pattern is very bad because of your poor habits around eating late at night, which causes your digestive system to cause you to not eat well and you're drinking too much water and now you've got, uh, like shy bladder syndrome or you've got a, like a, a bladder problem that means you've got to go to the bathroom, uh, whatever it is, which is causing your sleep to be bad, which means that downstream from that, your anxiety is high the next day. It's, "I'm anxious. I've got, I've got anxiety, I've got an anxiety problem."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, yet reducing down the complexity of the world into a pathology. ADHD, we saw it before. It's like-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... giving that diagnosis. The number of ADHD diagnoses has gone up, what was it? Like 10 times, 50 times or something in the last 100 years?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's o- it's overwhelming.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's overwhelming. The amount in, in America, they say one in seven little boys in America is now medicated for ADHD. And I mean, that's, those are brutal medications. Do you know how many boys I've talked to and grown men who are in their 20s that say, "I've been medicated for ADHD since I was four years old. I've been on a- I've been on stimulants since I was four years old because my preschool teacher diagnosed me with ADHD and told them, my parents, they would kick me out of school if I didn't get on meds a lot."? Guys who've never lived their real life.
- CWChris Williamson
What... How would you describe... I don't know whether you've ever been on ADHD medication, but from what you know about the experience of it, what can you tell me about w- what life would be like before and after for a-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... a young boy or girl and then also moving up into adulthood?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Most of what I encounter is people whose brain is so fried from years and years and years of being doped up and zombified and then still being screamed at. Anytime they twitch wrong, they move wrong, they act wrong, they don't do something right, it's, "You have ADHD. That's your ADHD. Get under control. I don't want to tolerate you. You have this problem." People who have ADHD, sometimes it's not ADHD, sometimes it's an attachment issue. Other times, people who have ADHD have attachment issues from being yelled at for having actual ADHD. It's amazing how those two go hand in hand and those medications zombify you, and then you've been on them for 20 years and you've never experienced what it's like not to be run down and also not to be yelled at for having a diagnosis. It's, it's not just even the meds, it's the whole experience of being told there is something wrong with you and you will never function right.
- CWChris Williamson
What was that psychological experiment where they took children who had minor stutters and-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... emphasized the stutter?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah. So they encouraged one group and said, "Hey," and encouraged them and the stutter got better. The other one, they, they stressed them out to the max and it made it so bad some of them couldn't even talk. It was 100%. If you encourage, they heal. ADHD, by the way, some people call it Type E personality, entrepreneur. Some people who thrive in entrepreneurial settings have very ADHD style brains and behaviors and they can do amazing when you get them in the right areas. Boys with, with, diagnosed at least with ADHD do amazingly well in non-traditional schools. When you get them in there, their achievement goes through the roof. But that's not what we're doing. We're not focusing on that.
- CWChris Williamson
Ah. Because we have a one size fits all education model. Not everybody's got access to a Waldorf school or some sort of outdoorsy type thing-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... which means that if you are a child or a, a young boy or perhaps a girl who has ADHD, you are a square peg being shoved into an incredibly round hole, and there are very few-... alternatives. I think, was it Elon Musk who dropped out of Stanford after his first seminar?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
I think he, I think he lasted less than half a term or something. And, you know, y- you're looking at a guy, whatever you think of his philosophy and his politics and his businesses, who is very capable of doing a lot of diverse things. That screams just, like, uh, weaponized, commercialized ADHD to me.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) It is, it is. Weaponized ADHD is right, and that's why he can achieve the way he does, most likely. Um, when you harness it right, it's an incredible power. When you live in a society where everything is one-size-fits-all, then you are a giant living in a city for sh- very short people, and nothing is gonna fit right. You're gonna bang your head everywhere you go.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's also remember that saying, you know, having an ADHD problem, every pathology that you want to talk about is a spectrum, you know? Even the most focused person in the world is the first percentile on the spectrum of ADHD. There's no point at which you hit s- a marker and it's like, "Oh, at this point, you're ADHD." Even you could say this about obesity, right? It, when you name somebody as being obese, it's actually a, a kind of arbitrary line that's like, okay, above BMI of this particular thing, and BMI is just this decision tool that you've decided to use. But we're talking about a spectrum here, and-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... ADHD is a function of a bunch of other th- uh, ma- like phenomena and manifestations, the way that people behave and show up in the world.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- 21:38 – 30:10
Why Men Skip Therapy
- CWChris Williamson
that I really enjoyed here. "Most men avoid therapy because most therapy approaches are not designed to help the male brain deal with pain or find solutions. That makes men believe therapy is worthless, and men skip things that feel worthless." Also, "Male depression is usually based on feeling helpless, powerless, and unable to affect one's life or environment. Therapy models focus on mel- helping men feel heard and loved instead of restoring their sense of personal power. Men need solutions, not just feelings."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely. And we are churning out here in the United States an overwhelming number of therapists who do not have the skills that they need or the experience that they need to provide lasting solutions that will undiagnose you in the long term. There are not, it's not that every therapist is bad. I was a therapist for years. There's many of my colleagues who are wonderful. However, the system we are doing here in America is to desperately churn out as many healthcare providers as we can because we do not have enough of them, and to focus their training in specifically on the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual so that you can treat issues. And then, you're going to be coupled in with all kinds of medication, and problems are nigh unfixable because you're just medicating and triaging. So much of mental health in America is based on the medical model and endless triage. Endless triage management, symptom management, that's all it is for the rest of their life. I mean, you get a man into that system, men would rather kill themselves than sit there and say, "I am disabled. I must have a medical help, medical assistance for the rest of my life. And all I can do is sit here and talk about my feelings endlessly for the next 10 years while paying $10,000 for the privilege." That is not what men are looking for. Men are looking for solutions, and they're looking for guidance in how to apply those solutions. When you give them those things, men will do just about anything for you.
- CWChris Williamson
Why is a prob- why is it a problem for therapy models to focus on helping men feel heard and loved instead of restoring their sense of personal power? Why is that something which is uniquely male, and why is that the approach that therapy models have when trying to fix men?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
The brain scans show us that the male brain goes backwards to observe and then forwards to act upon it. It mostly goes like this, back, observe, forward, act. When we see a problem, we act upon that problem. That's how the male brain tends to work. The female brain tends to observe in the back and then go back and forth across the hemispheres and make a bunch of connections and process it, and then think about it, and- and pull pieces out, and make deeper connections. That-That is often why women communicate to process with each other, to share with each other, and they need to feel heard. They're also fairly risk-averse, typically, so a woman doesn't typically want to be the one who makes the final decision, but they value being heard so they can have input on a group decision that all of them, their brains go back and forth, and back and forth, and make a decision together so that there is shared reliability and shared responsibility among the group. Men want to observe and act upon it and solve the problem. When you have a therapy model that just makes men feel heard and loved, "Okay, they kinda felt heard, I feel heard," and they kinda feel loved, "Well, I kinda feel loved. Now I feel like a useless piece of helpless garbage that other people are sitting here loving. That means they just pity me and I am just an endless creature of pity who will never solve any problems." It almost makes them worse. Is there a point where it helps men to feel heard and loved? Absolutely. Do men not need to feel heard and loved? No, they do. But it just makes them feel like they are being pitied, and that is something men would rather die than experience, for the most part.
- CWChris Williamson
You said as well, uh, most therapy approaches are not designed to help the male brain deal with pain or find solutions. What's the deal with pain, Elmer? I can see the find solutions, that's the back and forth.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
That's the, "I have the information, it's time for me to enact something."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
What about the, the deal with pain thing?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Most women, when they experience pain, what they will typically do is look for comfort with other people, look to share that and g- and be nurtured as they experience the pain. Women are very adaptable. They're wonderfully adaptable. So they endure through the pain by building connections and relying on those connections. Men hate that. When men experience pain, if they then have to go and just be a burden to someone else, they feel worthless. They would rather march off into the wilderness and die, most typically. Men need to deal with pain by finding a way through it and finding a purpose through it so that they can push through that pain, push through the pain receptors, push through that and follow that mission. If you do that, men can go through the pain and put it in its place 'cause they no longer feel helpless against the pain. There is a reason for enduring the pain. That's what men need.
- CWChris Williamson
Can you tell that story about The Blitz in World War II again?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) Yeah, so there's research that shows through The Blitz in World War II, um, psychiatric men, psychiatric hospitalized men, uh, who were comatose, they would sit there, they were just miserable, wretchedly miserable, but when things started happening around them and society needed them, when the bombs started going off and everything happened, they were needed. All of a sudden, they had a reason to get up and go do something, and that impelled them to pull out of their pain, out of their struggle, out of everything and go do what they were supposed to do. It is the same thing as a depressed man who is finally called up to do something and goes and does it in his family, in his life. Men who were, who are low and low and low, and then they find out that the woman in their life is carrying their child, and all of a sudden it sparks a difference in him, right? He stops drinking, he gets, he cleans himself up. Same experience. "I will endure the pain for the sake of my family, my country, my people, my whatever it may be. Here is my chance to rise up and make this change." That is what men are built for.
- CWChris Williamson
Does the fact that a man with a strong enough why can bear any how, which is a nice synopsis, I guess-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... of what you're sort of touching on there-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
S- does this explain why modern men are so insecure? That there is a massive lack of purpose, relationships around them, we have more childless men than ever, we have no intergenerational, pan-generational homesteads anymore, uh, there is a- a lack, at least in the West, of patriotism, of nationalism, um, what ... First off, why are modern men so insecure, and then secondly, how does what we've just spoken about play into that?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. So many of the men who come into my coaching program are lacking what I call human impact. They have no ability to create human impact in their life. That's what a legacy is, is the lasting human impact that endures after your death. It does not have to be biological children, although that's one of the easiest ones to point at and create. It can be adopted children, it can be mentored people that you help, it can be people you rescue, it can be an organization that you build. A human impact is the purpose of a man's life, because someday you will die. You will be dust. Your money will be frittered away and taken through taxes and all kinds of things. Your property will be divvied up. Your res- your, everything you've cared for in your life will be taken away. The only thing that endures is the future generations who are fundamentally altered because of your existence on this planet. That is the purpose of a man's life. That is why so many men want to kill themselves now, is because they find no purpose and no ability to create human impact.
- CWChris Williamson
Why would it be adaptive for a man to have that, or- or how do women and their life goals and purpose differ from that?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's funny, because many women, and I've- I've worked with tons of these women. They have much the same purpose. Women are much more adaptable, but they want to be useful to the people in their life and help enhance those people's lives so they can go out and live and thrive. Women are about helping other people thrive. Men are about changing the course of other people's life, if you wanna look at it that way. Women can find that purpose just about anywhere, helping just about anybody. As long as they have usefulness, women can be very happy. If they are loved and feel useful to the people that they love, that's when most women are okay, and they can endure, they can crawl over broken glass. But they aren't looking for the overall life-changing creation that men are looking for. They're looking for enduring and helping people endure and nurture them as they go.
- CWChris Williamson
Whereas men are capable, mission, powerful?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely. That's what men are looking for.
- CWChris Williamson
Interesting.
- 30:10 – 44:23
Helping Men Detox from the Red Pill Community
- CWChris Williamson
You've been helping some of your clients to detox from red pill fears.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
What's happening there?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes, absolutely. Um, (sighs) so many men who grow up either insecure, with insecure attachment, they say, "Something's wrong with me. I don't know what women want from me. I'm scared of women. You know, I'll try to please them like I please my mom, and then they're not happy about that. And then what am I supposed to do? How do I ask for sex? How do I communicate my needs? What do I do? Like, we're in a weird society. Women are kinda confusing. Dating is really hard, it seems like women are really picky. What do I do?" Then they encounter a woman who hurts their feelings, usually a woman who's very chaotic, may have a personality disorder. Borderline personality disorder stands out pretty hard among the women who really devastate these men. And they have such a horrible breakup experience that they're agonized, and then they find online somebody who's willing to say, 'Look. Women really are horrible," red pill culture teaches, "Women have borderline personality disorder, all of them. It's normal for women to feel that way. They don't even feel anything like humans do. They don't feel like men do. They are incapable of loving you the way you want to be loved.'" There's a book, I believe, that I'm pulling that quote from, which is a big red pill bible that they use. Uh, "Women are not capable of the depth of loyalty and love that you are. You have every reason to feel scared of women, and you need to control them." And that is just, all it does is switch men from anxious attachment style, where, "I think I am the problem," to avoidant attachment style, "Everyone else is the problem, and I must manage them like livestock while getting sex from them, and then dump them the moment they try to build any kind of intimacy or connection with me, and make them live in fear all the time." And that's what red pill does, is swap from one horrible life system to a different life system that's just as horrible, if not worse. Guys come into my coaching practice and say, "Adam, I hate how I have hurt women for the last five years. I am lonely. I am miserable. And I'm realizing this sucks. What is the alternative? Is there even an alternative? It seems like everyone, it seems like red pill is right, but I'm just as miserable as I was before. What do I do?" And I pull them in and I guide them through it. Whether they have slept with 300 women or have never slept with a woman before 'cause red pill has made them so petrified of women that they are terrified they're gonna be eaten alive, I guide them through that because there is a third option, which is to actually be a human being who connects to other human beings with trust, with honesty, and understanding what gr- red and green flags to look for in relationships, and how to communicate with women as if they are human beings too. And that's the magic.
- CWChris Williamson
What ... If you could go in and tinker with the current world of men's dating advice, red pill, manosphere-y stuff-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... what would be the main lessons that you would try to dispense with?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Talk about commitment more and be very clear about what you want. Every woman who comes into my dating practice is scared to death to say, "I just want to find one man to marry, and have children with, and be with for the rest of my life. But if I mention that to any man before y- year three, he is going to get up and run screaming from me." And the men who come into my coaching practice say, "I just want one woman to be with for the rest of my life and have children, but if I mention that before year three, she will think I'm a psycho who's trying to control her." Men, it makes you so attractive when you are very clear what you want, but you must understand that you also have to pass tests that prove that that is actually what you want. You don't have to pass tests proving that you are an eight-foot-tall millionaire who sweats diamonds and drives Lamborghinis. You must prove that you are a man of substance who is out there to make change in the world, any kind of change, and who is reliable and consistent so that you could be depended upon in a family situation. That is really all it takes, and most men cannot pass that test. If you can learn to pass that test, women will very much desire you for a lifelong relationship.
- CWChris Williamson
How do women enact that test?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) Women enact that test typically because they believe your words up front, but over time they begin testing you. They begin challenging you. When you do something that is completely against what you have claimed you want in life, when you say, "Yeah, I want a committed, loving relationship," and then you're secretly scrolling through porn. When you say, "Yeah, I wanna get married, but maybe in, like, eight years." When you say, "I'd love to have kids," and you have never interacted with a child in your life, and you have zero interest in children and keep pushing them away from you when they try to talk to you.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
When you are just smoking pot in your underwear, playing Xbox instead of building a business, a side business, or, or advancing in a career, or doing anything. They look at that and say, "Where are you at? Like, you're not actually doing anything. What are you doing?" Be the man she would want to be married to instead of promising her that you are going to change into the man she wants to be married to. Do that on the way to building your good life, you will find a woman who wants the kind of man you're becoming.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you not think that current men's advice touches on that topic?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Current men's advice says either completely disregard women as you build your empire or be so fearful of women that you end up manipulating them and playing games with them, because that's all that they're capable of doing with you, and you must keep them at arm's length to keep yourself safe. That is, by and large, the majority of men's advice that is out there on the internet right now, and it's terrible.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I'm looking at this very deeply at the moment, and one of the trends that I would love to try and tune down is this adversarial relationship between men and women. And I understand, I think that, you know, there's a little bit of credence to say that men's and women's dating strategies, mating strategies, in some regard can be a little bit adversarial.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, e- e- we are evolutionarily programmed for them to not always align perfectly, but on average they have to align at least some of the time or else there wouldn't be-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... a fucking civilization. So-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Correct.
- CWChris Williamson
... th- uh, and it's not really so much about the adversarial nature, because let's, you know, even if you're the biggest Dan Bilzerian chad in the world, you're only talking about you and, like, 10 birds, right?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's only you and 10 girls that you can have, let's say, that it is exclusively, uh...... refined and constrained within dating and mating.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
That's your adversarial relationship. Okay, that means that there's 3.5 billion minus 10 women on the planet with whom you should be able to have a non-adversarial relationship.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And yet, and this isn't just coming from the men's side, this is absolutely r/ThePinkPill, r/FemaleDatingStrategy-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, all of that stuff that's just as toxic that comes from the women's side.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- 44:23 – 52:51
The Need to Understand the Female Sex Drive
- ASAdam Lane Smith
- CWChris Williamson
"Husbands who complain about having zero sex have no idea how the female sex drive actually works, and the complaining makes it much worse."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) My favorite thing is when couples come in and they haven't had sex in a year, and I ask why, and she looks at him and says, "'Cause he hasn't asked." And he says, "Well, I kinda hinted, and you just never seemed interested." And she says, "Well, when was the last time you spent time with me?" "Well, why would I spend time with you if you're not having sex with me?" And that right there is exactly the spiral. Women, after one year, their sex drive switches from bonding-with-you mode to long-term stability and mate retention. If you have given her the adequate emotional bonding, and if she has decent enough, secure enough attachment to receive that bonding, her sex drive will go way up 'cause her brain says, "Keep this man around and have as many of his babies as I can. We must have 15 babies in the next week." That's what her brain will say. And I've seen couples, I've worked with couples in their 60s who come in, and sorry for this mental image, but they come in having very little sex, and they leave after a few sessions having sex three or four or five times a week in their 60s because they improve their actual emotional intimacy, which leads to better non-sexual physical intimacy, which then leads overwhelmingly to sexual physical intimacy. It should begin in your emotional bonding and connection. It will drive her sex drive through the roof, and she will not only be receptive to you, she will be chasing you through the house.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, you had another tweet that said, "At about 6 to 12 months into a relationship, the female sex drive switches from attraction and bonding to long-term stability. That means emotional intimacy, trust, and predictability."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"Many couples lack these three things, so her sex drive tanks. Neither person fully gets why."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So many women that I work with do not understand how their own sex drive works. I ha- I, I have clients who come in, and they say, "Adam, I don't know why I don't have a high sex drive. I just feel like my husband is mad at me for not having sex with him, but I just kinda don't want to. What's the problem?" And I say, "Well, you don't want to 'cause he's not doing what he's supposed to be doing as your husband." And they say, "Oh, thank you for saying that!" And I say, "Okay, well, what would it take?" "Well, I don't know. Just, like, maybe more time together?" And so we run through a list of exactly, like, 12 to 15 things of what spending time together should look like, and then we give him a measurable list of do this, do this, do this, do this often, this amount of time, this level, do this. And they do it for a week or two, and k- all of a sudden, her sex drive goes through the roof, and they're very happy.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. So I remember reading in Jonathan Haidt's The Happiness Hypothesis about the passionate and companionate, uh, uh, uh, two styles of, of ... It's not quite attachment. I think it's a- attraction perhaps.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Is there an equivalent for men?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
For these emotional intimate bonding like this?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, so you've said that with women around about 6 to 12 months-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... the, the, the arousal response occurs due to different s- stimuluses-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah, I hear you.
- CWChris Williamson
... stimuli. Is there an equivalent for men?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
There is. Um ... Yes. Okay, here's what it mostly is. I'm trying to frame it. People don't usually ask that, so let's talk about this. The male sex drive typically works, if we have resources then we want to go reproduce because we have enough resources to protect whatever would happen if we reproduced. Uh, that's a cheap way of saying it. But the male brain has to say, "Look, if I'm gonna throw endless resources at something, I need to make sure it's actually going to be sustainable, and that everything is going to continue the way it needs to." So if a woman is betraying him, if a woman is completely anti-maternal usually, if a woman is actively hurting him and attacking him, or if his stress level is overwhelmingly high from his environment, that's where the man's sex drive typically goes down. It takes pretty significant factors of this is not sustainable for a man's sex drive to tank that hard. It's, it's tough, not impossible, but tough. I do know that bonding through oxytocin actually and sh- helps men achieve faster erection and more lasting erections, so oxytocin is very important for men. It's a bonding hormone you get through emotional intimacy. But-It is very important, but men can still endure without it. It takes a lot to turn off a male sex drive.
- CWChris Williamson
We're a little bit more simple creatures, I think-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
We are.
- CWChris Williamson
... when it comes to that. What was, what was it that you taught me about the role of vasopressin for men during sex?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So, research shows that when men have orgasms, so, it works a little bit different than with the wo- than how women have orgasms. Women will have orgasms, and they, their orgasm happens largely due to an overwhelming supply of oxytocin that causes massive constrictions through the use, uterus. And same, same hormone that causes, um, labor and birth. Uh, we have a synthetic version that we use called Pitocin that actually induces labor. It's synthetic oxytocin. And women flood with that during sex, and that's what leads to one orgasm, which then leads to another, and then leads to 10, and then leads to her having a toe tag 'cause she's died. (laughs) But that's what it's supposed to be. Men have one orgasm, if they get any, and oxytocin may or may not affect the male brain as much as it does the female brain. It seems to more be there to move the semen along. And he may bond a bit with you through oxytocin, but men have far more receptors for vasopressin. Vasopressin is the hormone responsible for bonding when you achieve a mission together, you solve a problem together, you ac- accomplish a goal together. You know, men are goal-oriented. Who could've predicted that? If he accomplishes in sex with you and says, "We're gonna give you 10 orgasms," most women respond by saying, "No, let's not do that," or, "Why the arbitrary number?" He is actually setting a goal with you, wants to achieve it, and wants to high-five with you, and that is actually gonna bond him to you more than his own o- orgasm is gonna bond him to you. If you go with him and accomplish a mission together, that's gonna be what does it.
- CWChris Williamson
So, a failure of cross-sex mind reading, in that women wouldn't understand why they would create some arbitrary number of, "This is how many pumps you're gonna give me before we finish," or, "This is how long it's gonna last for," or, "This is how..." whatever else it is. Saying that to a woman is unlikely to cause her to have, uh, any additional bonding with you.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
But to a man, placing some sort of challenge in front of him that he can get to achieve, whilst also having sex. Sex bit's-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... good. But achieving the-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, so this is-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Together as a team. Together as a team, you achieve that, by the way. That's the vasopressin piece. You, your brain says, "We did this as a team. What else can we do as a team too?" And it makes his brain say, "I want to work with you to solve other problems as well, because now I have proven that you are a good, trustworthy ally in my life." That's the key right there.
- CWChris Williamson
What is the takeaway lesson for women in the bedroom with regards to vasopressin and maximizing that for men?
- 52:51 – 58:57
Most Struggling Couples Actually Have Attachment Issues
- CWChris Williamson
therapist for years, I didn't see even one divorce case where at least one of the spouses didn't have attachment issues every time. But most couples therapists aren't trained in attachment and don't know to check for that.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Attachment is what makes you connect to another person so that you can say, "Look, I'm gonna tell you the truth. Let's deal with the truth. We will get through it together, and we will solve this problem." If you don't have secure attachment, it is very hard to cooperate to solve problems. Then you get people who are just defensive, running away, trying to escape, managing their partner, pushing buttons for years and years and years until they reach a point where they have pushed too hard and it's now broken.
- CWChris Williamson
I've seen, especially since our first conversation, a massive proliferation of discussions around attachment-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... on the internet. I've had, uh, researchers like Jessica Baum on the show. She was fantastic.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
But I do sometimes worry about people who talk about attachment getting out over their skis-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... a little. And-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... um, not only using it for situations where it maybe doesn't apply-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... but also using it erroneously. Similar to how you tried to, um, sanitize some of the men's advice earlier on.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
What, what are the, what are the things that attachment doesn't explain, doesn't do? What-... would you tell the world about attachment that it isn't and that people need to dispel in terms of attachment myths?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. I get this all the time. People, especially of political persuasions, start asking me, "Hey, is the other side doing X because of attachment? Is it all just down to attachment?" And what I tell them is this. Attachment forms the foundation of your life, and it can definitely color some choices. But we will not know some of the intricacies until we fix attachment, and then we need to look at what remains, and then we'll be able to solve those problems together as actual human beings working together with respect for a human in, uh, the human dignity instead of screaming at each other assuming everyone is our enemy. Attachment doesn't touch everything. It touches a lot of things, but we won't know what it doesn't touch until we have fixed the massive epidemic in our society that, by the way, is increasing. The research that I've seen lately says up to 65% of people now mi- likely have an attachment issue and don't know it. So the research is, is de- is definitely proving it's going in the wrong direction. We need to turn that around so that we can figure out what is and isn't attachment.
- CWChris Williamson
I also heard that theories around attachment being exclusively or even majorly contributed to by childhood rearing-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... are, uh, coming under more and more scrutiny.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Now, you know, 50% of everything that you are psychologically is heritable, on average.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So presumably there's a huge heritability component here.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, are there any elements of discussing attachment with regards to childhood rearing? What, what's missed there? Do people get out over their skis too much with regards to that as well and, and how else is attachment contributed to?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
The biggest piece that I see is I have people come to me and say, "Adam, I think I have attachment issues and I don't know why. My parents were actually pretty cool. They were actually pretty loving. I don't know what's wrong with me." What I see is people whose brains learned through experience, something called an attachment wound. Through some sort of painful experience, your brain ch- learned that it is not safe, and it will do anything to avoid that. It's like, it's like experiencing a trauma. So being in the NICU, we call it the NICU when the baby comes out and they get put in, uh, too early, they get put into an enclosed chamber. And they're trying to keep warm, but they don't get physical contact. The brain separates out and doesn't get what it needs for those first few months. A child who's hurt, a child who's abandoned, a child who's traumatized, from birth up until about age 12, your brain is trying to learn through experience with your peers, with your parents, with, with people in the world, what is going to happen. Your brain continues to learn beyond that. I'm much m- very much a follower of Carl Jung, who said that your brain is growing through y- the course of your life. You can change. I have, I have people come in... The oldest client I ever had was 79 years old, who came in and said-
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... "I'd like to fix my attachment." Okay, let's fix the attachment, and we did. That you can still continue to change, it is challenging those beliefs. Yes, they do come from childhood. No, they are not set in stone. They continue to grow over time. We are not just creatures. We are cognitive beings, and we have to embrace both sides, and we have to educate both sides, if that makes sense.
- CWChris Williamson
There was a really good article from Vox that came out recently about attachment, what it explains and what it doesn't. And there was a, a section in it that I put on my story today that said, "Knowing how you relate to romantic partners can be both helpful and a hindrance."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- 58:57 – 1:00:09
The Problem of People Who Need Therapy but Refuse
- CWChris Williamson
one. Most people in therapy are there because the people in their life who actually needed therapy refused to get it.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
How do you know this? You, the person only comes in and you only speak to them? Presumably-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... their abusive uncle or shit father or bad baseball coach-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... isn't there.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you know?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
The number of times, interestingly, in my practice through therapy and now as a coach, is people come in, and I assess where they're at, and I say, "Okay. This sounds like an environmental issue." A lot of my training was not just a medical response. It was an environmental focus. It was, where is your environment reshaping you? That was what my current, my previous license was all about. Where, how is your environment causing this issue? So we would look at that and say, "Tell me about the people in your life. Tell me how you're interacting with them. Tell me their responses." And then I would say, "Bring that person into therapy with me." Now it's, "Bring that person into coaching with me and let me talk to them." And we talk and I interview them and I look at them and I see how they act, and by and large, it is that person who actually really needs the help, the one who refused to come in. 'Cause the one who actually came in was the one trying to work and make it better. By and large, that is the case, and especially when I work with young people whose parents are the ones who are the driving force in teaching them the bad messages. That's it.
- CWChris Williamson
"Most
- 1:00:09 – 1:05:49
Women’s Need for Validation Over Solutions
- CWChris Williamson
men don't know how female communication works. They provide solutions, which is what they would want-"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... when a woman wants validation. When this is pointed out, most men assume it's untrue because they'd hate to receive only validation instead of a solution."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) And isn't that true? Have you ever had that experience where a woman says, "Talk to me," and you say, "What am I supposed to talk to you about?" Have you ever had that experience, Chris?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, of course, especially with younger-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... younger partners. You know, in your early 20s, I think, when everybody is poor at communicating, it's-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... it's, it's very common.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Why do women do this? Women do this because to them, communication is trust. It illustrates that you trust them. It illustrates you're willing to spend time with them. It illustrates you want them to understand you so that they can be more helpful to you in the future. It illustrates to them that you are emotionally invested. When you listen to them, when you share with them, that's what that tells them. When you let them share with you, it tells them very much the same, that you are curious about helping them, that you're curious about being with them, you are interested in them, you're invested in them, you are willing to spend your time on them, and you like your time with them. When men stop and try to throw out solutions, they are cutting to the end of the conversation and saying, "I don't have time for you." That's what the woman is actually hearing. Not, "Here's a wonderful solution that I wish someone had given me." They hear, "I don't have time for you. Take your solution and get out of my face." That is what men are accidentally saying when they, number one, shut them down with solutions, or number two, they refuse to open up about their day, share about their thoughts, share about their difficulties they're experiencing. When they refuse to share, you are telling her, "I am not interested in you. I could replace you with any woman out there."
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm. That's so interesting. A failure of cross-sex mind reading yet again.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yet again.
- CWChris Williamson
What are the differences in male and female communication, then? So, w- why, in your opinion, do so many couples struggle to communicate effectively?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Well, why did we evolve communication in the different ways? Why did men develop one brain that is solution-focused and women develop a brain that's relationship-focused? You go back to the hunter-gatherers, you go back to 20,000 years ago, before the Neolithic revolution, right? Before we realized if we eat seeds and poop them out that it grows more seeds where we pooped them out, so we should live there. That we... Before we learned that, men had to go out and hunt and survive and fight. Women stayed at home and bonded and nurtured and cared. And that's where our communication styles really started coming out. The guy who was out in the field with the mammoth saying, "Hey, John, I hope you're feeling okay. I hope things are all right. You know, if it's not too much trouble, maybe you could think about going over there, because there might someday be like..." And by that time, the mammoth has already run you down and killed you, and you and John are now dead. So those guys were like, "Well, get out of here. Go over there. Go live over there with the women, 'cause I don't wanna hear it." That's, out there, it's, "Hey, you, go over there. There's a mammoth. Stab it with a spear. I'll jump on its back." That's the communication we evolved, is find me a solution now. I don't have much time, and I gotta get it done quick. Women, other way. Slower communication, they were around the wom- th- the children, teaching, guiding, listening, nurturing, sharing of resources, sharing of time. Women developed sharing. Men developed solving. If you look at the different communication styles, even today, we are still living those same patterns.
- CWChris Williamson
Why then is it the case that men and women can't communicate on where they want to go for dinner?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) They can if, if the man explains what he is looking for. So the more anxious a woman is, the more she is afraid of disrupting the relationship. A fully secure woman is not as likely to have that problem. But any woman with any level of anxiety is going to struggle, 'cause he says, "Where do you want to eat?" And she doesn't think selfishly and say, "I want to eat over here." She says, "What would he want to eat? What's a good answer for us? What's a good experience for us? Where did he want to eat last time? Would he want to eat there again?" Well, and then anxious women, their brain kicks in and says, "But if we pick wrong, he could be mad. He could have a horrible time. It could even lead to us breaking up. I don't want to do that." And they cycle out like that, and then they get stressed out. And then the other half of women have a mental problem, a mental load problem, where they've been struggling with it and making decisions all day, and they're exhausted and say, "Just you make the decision. You're the man. You tell me what we're supposed to do," 'cause they're resentful, 'cause they feel overburdened and stressed out. And the guy is sitting there going, "Just pick. Just eat. Where do you want to go?" That's why that fight is happening, because he doesn't see that happening under the surface, and she doesn't know how to convey that to him either. That's why men and women will starve to death slowly arguing about what they wanted to eat for lunch last week.
- CWChris Williamson
One of my boys has got a solution that he uses when he wants to go somewhere. His partner i- is a, a... The woman is pretty sort of decision-oriented in any case, so it wouldn't be an issue to get her to contribute-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... where she wanted to go. So he has used neurolinguistic programming to trick her into going to the place that he wants to go to. So what he says, he proposes-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... the place that he wants to go in the negative. So he'll say, "Listen, I... With regards to dinner this evening, would you be opposed to going to Cheesecake Factory?"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And she's gonna say, "Well, like, I mean, who's opposed to going to Cheesecake Factory? No one's opposed..." And he's like, "Well, look, I'm not opposed to going to Cheesecake Factory. There's maybe somewhere else-" "Well, no, no, no, no, no. If you're not opposed, my preference-"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"... would be Cheesecake Factory. And given that you're not opposed to it, and this is my preference-"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"... how about we go Cheesecake Factory?" Uh, which I actually think is, like, a, a really fantastic, although slightly-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Interesting.
- CWChris Williamson
... manipulative way to-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Uh, interesting.
- 1:05:49 – 1:09:29
Dealing with Women’s Lowered Sex Drive in a Relationship
- ASAdam Lane Smith
- CWChris Williamson
"Most women with attachment issues ramp their sex drive through the roof even more than usual at the start of a relationship, and then nosedive the moment it becomes long-term, and they hate themselves for both sides of it."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
I made so many women angry with a comment along the lines of this one on Instagram, where I posted that if she is just you ... if all she thinks she has to offer in the relationship is her body, then she really has nothing to offer in the relationship. And so many women got angry at that, because so many women, that's all they feel they have to offer. That it's an endless act of, "Please don't leave me. I will do anything to make you like me," and that's all they think they have. And then they are just in perpetual survival mode, so then after they've made you happy, happy, happy, happy, they just sit and collapse. And then men complain, "Women today don't have any cooking skills, domestic skills. They have nothing." Well, yeah, it's 'cause those women are terrified, and they're just in endless survival mode. So they just try to make you happy and then collapse until the next time they have to make you happy. That's, (sighs) unfortunately, how it goes.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Why would the sex drive fall off a cliff after a while?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Because it is built on emotional intimacy, and women who have those attachment issues, those insecurities, are incapable of receiving that good love and reassurance, even if he's giving it. So even if he is trying to build an emotional connection with her, she will actually push it away and do the one thing that would make her feel safe and secure because it's the one thing that makes her feel most unsafe and uns- insecure. That right there is the problem. Those women actively reject the very thing that would enhance their relationships and their sex drive.
- CWChris Williamson
So a woman ... A- a man who gets into a relationship or- or a one-night stand or casual sex with a woman who is very performative in the bedroom, in the first instance, that's got to be one of the amber flags, at least for this kind of a personality, I'm guessing.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Exactly. If she ... Well, if she goes to bed with you on the first date, yes, it's a gigantic red flag. Uh, or amber flag in that case. Yes, it- it is. It's massive. If she is able to build any kind of barrier and say, "You know what? I'm looking for some level of commitment before I will do these steps with you," and then she follows through on that, and then continues looking for additional commitment, that's where the healthy women really are, to be honest with you.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you not think that there's a case where, uh, the predisposition that women have to make men wait, to be more choosy with their partners can be heavily deprogrammed by a wildly sex-positive culture that tells women that true freedom is having a job like your father and having sex like your brother?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's ... Even that, though, is based on fear, because women don't really want that. The research shows that only 2% of women prefer a hookup over a real relationship. 98% of women prefer a real, long-term relationship over any kind of a hookup. But they say that up to 80% of university women will have a hookup. It's that they are settling for the little that they actually believe is possible and the little that makes them at least not feel as unsafe. It's false intimacy and false connection for the sake of feeling like there's something in their world that makes them feel connected to a human being. It is not that they crave it, it is that that's they think all they can get, and everything else is too terrifying to reach for.
- CWChris Williamson
That's very sad. Why do you think that that's the case? Why are they thinking like that?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Because so many of them didn't receive the love they needed from their father growing up, and it's- it's back to daddy issues, which so many people make fun of. But so many of them did not bond fully and connectedly with a fully embracing and vibrant father who showed them what love, and cooperation, and intimacy, and trust, and conflict, and conflict resolution, and cooperation is supposed to look like, and they are just petrified no one on this earth will ever really love them.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, next one. "Some
- 1:09:29 – 1:17:02
Do You Need Sex Before Marriage?
- CWChris Williamson
people actually believe you must have sex with someone-"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"... before you marry them to make sure if it's good sex."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"As if sexual behavior is innate and not cultivated through deep connection or communication and sharing of needs."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"These people want physical intimacy without emotional intimacy."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah. It's- it's an excuse not to commit. Nobody who says, "Have sex before marriage, otherwise it's gonna turn out bad!" No one like that ends up getting into a very happy marriage, because they ... all they have done is emphasize the overwhelming pleasure, and it's just one more reason not to have a loving, intimate relationship. Usually, those women are like, "What if he has a three-inch penis with a barb on the end of it and I don't find out 'til my wedding night?" Like, (laughs) something outrageous like that, that is just overwhelming. Um, that's one thing I hear all the time. And all the other women are like, "Yeah, that could totally happen." No, no, no, no. The f- extreme outlier ... So you have to bang your way through 20 dudes so that you can find one who has a perfectly shaped penis? Yeah, no, I don't think that is how our- our- our human species evolved to function like that. Um, the other piece, though, is this is one more excuse to not get married. People will do everything but get married. People will have five children and three dogs and buy a house and move to another country and give their partner one of their kidneys, but will not get married, because the concept of becoming responsible to another human being and being legally vulnerable in any way, shape, or form terrifies them. Those are the people that say you must have sex before marriage, 'cause what if it's bad?
- CWChris Williamson
That's not to say, to just jump on the back of the first point you made there, that's not to say that anybody that has sex before they get married is inherently going to be-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... a bad marriage partner. It's the people-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that proselytize about it to others, that it's something which you must do, that that is another quite dark amber flag. And yeah, I- I- I mean, the UK's ONS data came back, and for the first time ever, 51.4% of children are born outside of marriage. So this is to either single mothers or ... Uh, uh, outside of marriage or a civil partnership. So this is to either single mothers or mothers that are just cohabitating with no legal agreement-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or perhaps even not cohabitating, separately habitating but with, uh, no legal agreement. Um, a lot of avoidance going on here.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Massively. Massively. Very much fear. Very much terror. This is why the divorce rate is declining, but it's declining because fewer people are getting married. It's- it's why the sex rate is declining, because people are so terrified of each other, they don't even wanna have sex anymore. People are gonna sit in their home and watch porn or binge Netflix or suck down energy drinks. They're gonna dopamine binge over and over and over, 'cause their brains are so deficient on every other hormone that they're s- uh, neurotransmitter they're supposed to have, 'cause they are ... we are not meant to live in cold, sterile little apartments and little tiny cubicles where we don't connect with other human beings. We are meant to be in big, messy, dirty, hard environments that challenge us and make us bond with other human beings through trials and through nurturing and through sadness and through joy. We are meant to live messy lives, and our lives are not messy enough.
- CWChris Williamson
Michael Easter wrote a great book called The Comfort Crisis, which is about this and talking about challenges of, uh, excessive convenience. Uh, and it's really, really, really not good. And it's so difficult to push back against because convenience feels good and comfort feels good. The warmth of the couch on a, an evening time when it's cold outside and you've had a hard day at work, compared with whatever the thing is, the difficult conversation with your partner, taking the dog out for another walk, going to the gym like you said you would, spending time on Duolingo to learn Spanish because it's the New Year's resolution that you made for yourself. All of these things are-
Episode duration: 1:30:18
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