Modern Wisdom17 Ugly Psychology Truths No One Wants To Admit - Adam Lane Smith
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
155 min read · 30,656 words- 0:00 – 7:06
Should Women Have Sex on the First Date?
- CWChris Williamson
You love posting threads of ugly psychology truths on the internet.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
I do.
- CWChris Williamson
I love learning about them, and then we get to talk about them on the show. So today, we're gonna go through as many as we can. The first one, which I thought was fascinating, women think that having sex with a man on the first date will bond him to her, but that doesn't work with secure men or avoidant men. It really only works with crushingly insecure men who crave approval, and women don't want to bond with those men.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Men, we don't, we don't get the same kind of hormone release that women do, and we don't process it the same. For us, it's a lot more dopamine. It's not the same level of oxytocin quite that they get. So, we are very different. Women, if they have an orgasm with a man, they're probably going to bond with him. This is why casual sex is so, so difficult for women, and especially maintaining friendships, um, and just steady platonic or, or casual friends with benefits situations for women. This is why they turn friends with benefits into situationships. This is why this happens. They will start off agreeing one thing, then do the other. You've probably seen this before, I'm sure. Um, men don't bond that way. They don't, they just don't, typically. If there's already a bond happening, yes, then having sex can be unitive, and it can make him love you and, and, and, not love you, but make him care for you more. It can increase his affection for you. It can increase the bonding. But the connection already has to be there. You don't get a guy to fall in love with you doing that. So, this whole first date, sleep with him on the first date so he'll stay around, that's a whole other thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I, I wonder whether it's women using their theory of mind. I think in the evolutionary psychology literature, it's called cross-sex mind reading failures.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So, um, they believe that if it was me, the only way that I would be able to sleep with somebody is if I felt very deeply about them. Therefore, if this happens with the man, then this is how he must feel about me, and it's a failure of, of using your own theory of mind.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
You're very right. It's also, I've been studying a lot into mirroring neurons, especially when we're little children. So, when we're born, we have the amygdala, and then we have a lot of mirroring neurons. It's, it's two of the only structures that are really fully formed at birth. And our mirroring neurons, we're supposed to have mom. Mom is supposed to be paying attention to us, and, and looking at us and mirroring our expression to her so that we s- we feel interesting to people just by existing. And then, when we make a face, she mirrors it back to us, and we start mirroring each other, and we say, "Other people will respond to me. I am enough." If mom doesn't, she's depressed, she's tired, she's exhausted, she's working three jobs and is never there, we're in daycare all the time, if we've had NICU trauma, if we've had various issues, our brain says, "Mom is not mirroring me," or, or, "I can't get a response. I have to be interesting to get mom's attention." This is where kids start acting out a lot, or they go inward and don't believe they can get any kind of response. The response tries to d- dies, the desire to even connect. So then, people are trying, in dating, to be interesting. They're trying to stimulate others. Women say, "I have to sleep with him on the first date or he'll lose interest." When you hear that, her mother probably didn't mirror with her correctly. Her father didn't mirror with her correctly. She learned, "I have to be interesting and stimulating." Guys, same thing. When they try to dance for women's approval, it's that mirroring neurons all the way back. Have you... You've probably met guys like this, right? That try to be interesting instead of be real?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I think there's a, a massive lack of confidence and insecurity around authenticity.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
There's all manner of rumor and half-truth and full truth and no truth about vulnerability and when it's right to open up and when you shouldn't open up as a man. And, you know, the more-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, layers of, of broscience and, and half-remembered hearsay that you layer on top of an interaction, the more performative it becomes, the more persona and less person there is in the interaction. And the more that that happens, the less you actually feel connected with what you're doing because you're not connecting from you to a person. You're playing a role. So, even if you do get the outcome that you want, the person isn't in love with you. They're in love with this projection that you've given them.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
And, you know, this is such a, it's such a dangerous catch-22 to fall into. It's the reason, I think, fundamentally that the actual hardcore pickup world failed for men that were unconfident with women because what it taught them was that the person they had to be and the person that they genuinely were, were so far apart, if I need to go through this massive rigmarole and say, "Did you see the fight with two midgets outside? Isn't that da-da-da-da?" And then I've got to nigger and, like, twist a lemon, and I've got to, like, you know, ignore her and chat up her friend and do all this shit. It's like, "If I have to go through this complex fucking rain dance to try and get a woman to go to bed with me, and that's not what I would do, what does that say about me?" And-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, it, it, it's one of the problems of taking your cues from culture as opposed from yourself. And, a-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
And-
- CWChris Williamson
... again, you know, a lot of this could come from parenting problems, too.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It is. Think of this. There's... Uh, from, from what I have found, there are two different dating pools, and they don't flag or signal to each other at all. They have almost no crossover. They're not even aware of each other. There's the secure people who want that direct, human, authentic connection of, "We are together, we are talking, we're sharing this bond." They don't want stimulation 'cause it feels weird. Too much stimulation upfront feels weird to them. They understand that connection, so they want the right bonding experience. Then there's the insecure pool that everybody is trying to be interesting, interesting, interesting, and they're playing that anxious or that avoidant dance over here. Two different pools that never cross. So, when you see guys, "Every woman out there expects you to be eight feet tall and have an 18-inch dick, and you have to have 10 billion in the bank and..." No, no, you don't, and you don't have to dance for her amusement and endlessly play games or have dread game or control her. That's only gonna work on those insecure women over here. It's never gonna work on secure women. They will get up and walk away. You're gonna look confusing to them or disinterested, and they're gonna track as confusing or disinterested for you. The two dating pools are segregated out completely according to this model. It is wild to see.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, and, you know, just to kind of round out the women having sex on a first date thinking that it'll get a man to bond with her-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... I, I...I really, really don't think that many of the girls that listen to this show will think that, but if there is, or if you've got a friend that does think that, like... Price is an indicator of quality.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And for almost all of human history, there was a, a courting period that needed to occur. Even if the courting period was passive, because you lived in the same tribe together and she observed you being competent and reliable, and trustworthy, and bringing back a big wildebeest and helping out with the whatever, whatever. Right? So, there is a period of, of value, uh, justification from man to woman, and also from woman to man. Uh, and if you shortcut that, the presumption from a lot of guys, and I can tell you this from first and secondhand experience, if a woman gives it up too easily, the assumption is, "Well, she'll do this to any man."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Correct. That's, that's the first thing men think of. "That was a great hamburger. Everyone is eating this hamburger. I'll come back when I'm hungry, but it's not the hamburger I'm gonna settle for."
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck yeah. All right, next one-
- 7:06 – 11:16
People Who Are Obsessed with Politics are Messy & Unhappy
- CWChris Williamson
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
A person obsessing over politics is a good indicator that their personal relationships are a mess. Unless they're financially invested in the political sphere, they're probably compensating for feeling powerless in their life.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
If you're looking for someone to save you, they're not gonna save you, number one. And you need to actually do the work in your own life. Are there things that impact you? Yeah, there are. Should you be completely obsessed with finding the right person who's going to save you and all of society? Nah. Chris, how many people have you met that are obsessed with politics to a degree that they're not really involved in them, it's their sport?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, quite a few.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Twitter, right? (laughs) I mean, that's-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... that's a large part of what drives Twitter's business, is arguing over who is going to save us best, and who should be the enemy, and who we outside, and who we exile, and... I- if they're doing that, that's, that's not done by people who are happy. Let's say it another way. The happiest people are not on social media yelling about politics. They might be on social media posting about their kids, or they're gonna be out with their kids, or their family, or their best friends. They're gonna be building a life. They have so much more to do than just politics, and they just navigate around the politics that are happening.
- CWChris Williamson
So, you, you think that it's a compensatory mechanism?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Every single time I have seen someone come into my therapy office, or now my coaching, and start talking to me endlessly about, "This is so important, this person and this," I say, "Okay, let's steer it back to your life." They will steer it away from their life back into politics, because they think that they are showing who they are by, by following the right things and having the right politics, and they think that that gives them value and it also makes them feel safe, 'cause they can talk about it. And again, they're trying to be interesting. They're trying to stimulate. They're not even having a real conversation. They're not discussing it. It is just a compensation in every capacity, and they will not talk about the gaps in their own life. They want to run away from that.
- CWChris Williamson
I wonder if a little bit of it is externalizing the locus of control that, "Look, my life isn't where I want it to be. My relationships aren't where I want them to be, and it's the fault of whatever's going on outside. It's the economy. It's because of social media. It's because of Silicon Valley. It's because of immi- immigration, or the war in Ukraine, or the price of pharmaceuticals, or estrogens in the water." Like, putting the blame outward onto something that you kind of know that you can't impact-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... is, is actually a really perverse type of victim mentality. Because you know that you're not going to stop estrogens from getting into the water. You know that you're not going to change the war in the Ukraine. This isn't to say that you can't have an issue with this, you can't be aware of this, you can't campaign for it and make changes for it. But if it is the fundamental driving force in a life where you feel powerless and you point the finger of blame, that is the equivalent of pointing the finger of power. You say, "The Ukraine, that's what has all of the power over my relationships and my mood. The, the, the economy, that's what has all of the..." And these things, we're not separate from these things, but absolutely there is... I, I feel like there is a non-insignificant cohort of people who use politics as an excuse to not engage properly with the challenges that they're facing in their life.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Absolutely. If someone bring ... I'm not saying that the political pieces aren't a problem. Yeah, the economy sucks. Yeah, it does. But here's the real test, is when someone is complaining about a political thing, ask them, "Okay, what are you gonna do about it? What are you going to do about it?" If they have an answer, they are st- taking control in their personal life. If their answer is, "We have to elect so-and-so, they will save us," or, "We have to shoot the other side in the head," or, i- if that's their answer, no, that's not gonna help them in any way, shape, or form. They don't actually have any control. L- locus of control. You nailed it. I love that. Their locus of control is externalized and they are hoping someone will save them. It's, it's very much the same of watching a sports team and saying... And when the sports team wins, they say, "We won." It's exactly the same thing.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm. Right, next one. People are
- 11:16 – 17:36
The Danger of Avoiding Uncomfortable Conversations
- CWChris Williamson
more likely to take a pill for years that they don't understand and don't think will actually help them than they are att- to attempt even one uncomfortable conversation-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... that could save their life.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) People, number one, will trust ins- institutions blindly, 'cause there's that locus of control. "This doctor will save me. This doctor said this medication will save me. It will make me feel better." Sometimes the placebo effect works for that, and that's scary. Um, people don't want to do the work though, 'cause the work is exhausting. The work takes willpower. The work takes hope. Taking a pill doesn't take hope, you just have to put it in your mouth and swallow it, and you can just see how it works in six weeks. Doing the work is hard. And when they don't feel that they can affect change, then they don't feel that they can actually make anything happen, so work is pointless. Work is scary. Work will just confirm for them that they're helpless. So, they don't want to do the work. They don't wanna have the conversation.... pill is easier.
- CWChris Williamson
How, how many times have you seen somebody come into your practice that is sort of one difficult conversation away from a, a radically different life?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That is pretty much every person who comes into my office. And my, my coaching session is, "What conversation are you too terrified to have? How do we build you up to where you can have that? How do we decrease your anxiety and difficulty to have that? Go have it." And they go have it, and it reorients their whole brain, and their whole life starts to change, and they start fixing their life. Because then they can have the next conversation, and the next one, and the next one. Their brain chemistry balances out. Their, their porn addictions go down even, as their brain chemistry balances out. It's incredible to watch, but it is almost always one conversation away from fixing their life, and that conversation makes them feel like they're going to die if they try to have it. That's, that's everything.
- CWChris Williamson
Why is that the case? Why do we fear the difficult conversations that we have to have so much?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
As kids we learn, this is attachment, this is what I teach, as kids we learn that somebody is not going to take our needs seriously, and in fact, that if we try to get them to take it seriously, they are gonna hurt us, they'll abandon us, they'll tell us we're not worthy of their time, they'll brush us off, they'll yell at us. So trying to get someone to take our feelings or our needs seriously is terrifying. And in fact, when we're little kids, it can get you abandoned, and that abandonment is linked to death when you're a little kid. It's, you, you feel like you're going to die. So it's an amygdala response that forms, uh, the theories go that amygdalas, amygdala memories stay with us for life. You remember that opening up and asking for help gets you hurt really bad, to an extent that you can't take ever again, 'cause it could destroy you. So then one big conversation is the most terrifying thing on earth. People would rather face physical pain than that emotion or that social pain.
- CWChris Williamson
What is your advice to somebody who probably knows that they do have an incredibly uncomfortable conversation, they've been putting it off for weeks, months, years, and now they are almost in a relationship with that relationship they have with the conversation?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Wh- uh, where do they go? Where are the first steps that they go to to get past that?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Figure out what outcome you want for that relationship, with that person. What relationship would you rather have with them than the one you have right now? The fake one that you have right now. Then take that relationship, pitch it to the person, and say, "I want this relationship with you. To get there, we have to overcome this issue. Here is how I would like this conversation to go. Do you want that conversation, do you want that relationship also? If so, how can we together handle this issue? Here's what I need. What do you need?" And you build a solution-focused approach to solving that problem. That is cooperating during conflict. That is how you build a secure attachment, that's how you build great relationships. This is also how you prevent the other person from exploding in your face. As long as they are a halfway reasonable human being, they probably want the same vision of relationship you do, and if they, you give them, "Hey, this is what we're gonna do to get there," they don't have to fight you or defend against you. It's not an accusation. It's, "Let's solve this to get to that." And that makes it so much easier. If you can approach it that way, you'll solve most of your relationship woes.
- CWChris Williamson
What is the other side of the fence here? So that is the pathway for somebody who needs to have a conversation to have it. You mentioned people are likely to take a pill for years they don't understand, and, uh, opposition, or instead of-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... having a difficult conversation. What happens when somebody continues to tamp down the things that they know that they're supposed to say? What's going on in the brain, in the body-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Man.
- CWChris Williamson
... with everything else?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So those people end up usually really deficient on oxytocin, and oxytocin is crucial for managing your physical pain, so a lot of these people end up with chronic pain issues. Oxytocin also releases GABA, gamma-Aminobutyric acid. GABA is responsible for a lot of melatonin and helping you sleep at night and relax your body. It helps you use mel-, uh, magnesium effectively, to manage stress. It's an inhibitory neurotransmitter for crus- crushing down anxiety, depression symptoms, and all of those are missing if you don't have those healthy relationships with good conversations. Your high cortisol will actually block that production of oxytocin, which will block the production of that me- that GABA as well. So have the conversations. Your pain will start to diminish emotionally, mentally, physically. Everything will start to diminish. And your satisfaction in life will go up. You have to have those conversations, 'cause it's killing you not to.
- CWChris Williamson
I suppose it's a, a double-edged sword that people who need to have conversations will often lie awake at night thinking about the conversation that they haven't had, but they've also created this neurochemical foundation which is restricting their ability to sleep as well.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That's right. That's right. A- a lot of my clients will take a, uh, they, they will pre- they will, what is the word? Micro-dose a little bit. They'll experiment with micro-dosing. Sometimes they just need to learn physical body techniques to manage their anxiety. Whatever it takes to decrease the anxiety enough to go have the conversation. That's the point of pharmaceuticals, with, with mental pharmaceuticals, most of them, is decrease the symptoms to do the work. So get the symptoms down, do the work, and you shouldn't need those pharmaceuticals much after that, because you've already solved the problem that was there in the first place.
- CWChris Williamson
"Most
- 17:36 – 24:18
How Our Relationships Are Being Systematically Destroyed
- CWChris Williamson
cases of depression are a natural response to our broken society. We gain much of our sense of worth, purpose, meaning, and joy from our relationships, but those relationships have never been more systematically destroyed than they are today." How have they been systematically de- d- destroyed? How do you categorize modern society as being broken?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So we look back 200 years ago. It wasn't perfect, but families, we had f- we had five safety nets that if a family didn't go right, a child would connect to one of their five safety nets. You've got your core nuclear family. You've got your extended family network around that, grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles, aunts, cousins. You've got the kith and kin network after this, so you've got ex- way out family members. You've got, there's the surrounding family f- uh, friends, the friends that you have, are gonna grow up with. You've got your neighborhood, your tribe, your village, your little town, the people around you outside of that that you can connect to. And then you've also got your religious connections, your religious identity, the religious network and, and community you're tapped into. Those five pieces. If your family doesn't connect with you, somebody outside of that family will, a grandmother, an aunt, somebody will step in. You've got your kith and kin network, people to grow up with, peers and other people to connect with. These, this is where you'd get married, most likely. You've got your overall village, your connection point with the other people around you, right? Maybe 1,000 people. And then you've got your religious connections as well. Um, J.R.R. Tolkien, he was raised by a priest. His, that was his safety network. Everything else fell through, he was still raised by a priest and brought us Lord of the Rings. There are so many connection points within these five, and all of those are pretty much gone now except you've got your nuclear family, which even that has shattered, (laughs) and especially here in America. Those five networks are crucial, and if you don't have them, kids slip right through the net all the way down to suicide.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. What would you say to the people who wouldn't predict or don't understand why worth, purpose, meaning, and joy come from relationships? A lot of people-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... will find this from their work, uh, from pursuits that they have, uh, from the kind of content that they consume, stuff like that. Uh, y- to think of relationship first, purpose-filled lives seems, I don't know, it, it doesn't seem very common.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
I hear that. I understand that. Part of that is because most people don't have those relationships, so they didn't grow up experiencing what it's like to have an impact on another human being, to feel a connection with another human being. They didn't grow up with much of that, so nobody impacted them in a much of a positive way. They can't understand then and calibrate around trying to have an impact on other people. So an artist, many artists, yes, they're creating because they have that desire to create, but their legacy focus for their art is to impact other people, to drive them to think, to help people to grow, to inspire other artists. An author is not just writing a book for themself. An author is writing a book for an audience, for human beings. A therapist is not just becoming a therapist 'cause it will be satisfying to them to be a therapist. They are going to make an impact on the world. Your job, your craft, your hobby, all of these create human impacts. And if you've never experienced a human impact yourself, it's very difficult to imagine what kind of human impact you could create that would then be worthwhile to create a legacy. You, Chris, man, watching you has been incredible, but think about your human impact of this show. You're not doing a podcast 'cause you enjoy talking into a microphone. You are changing the culture. You are uplifting certain voices, right? You are changing the conversation, the macro conversation. Our micro conversation is going to echo through that macro conversation out in society and start making a shift. You are having a tremendous human impact on the human race, and you are one person doing that. Your work has tremendous meaning that way because of that human impact. But if nobody ever listened to your show, ever, or was ever touched by your show, it wouldn't have that same meaning to you.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, that makes sense. I, I remember we had a conversation one of the previous episodes-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... about, uh, pan- pangenerational houses-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... and the rarity of that now. So, uh, I think you had this super viral tweet a couple of years ago that said something like, uh, uh, "Don't forget that moving out of home is a PSYOP by the government to make you have two mortgages instead of one." Um, you know, because, and it was, it's so obvious in retrospect. Do you think, you know, families would've had three generations, four generations of, of not just your straight nuclear family, but extended family too living on some sort of farm, uh, working for a farmer? You know, even if it's not your farm, it's you and your family are within that.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yep. I was seeing some research, I think, uh, it might've been you. I see you so often on, on Instagram. (laughs) I can't even, I just attribute everything to you now. Um, but there was some research that shows that by the time your child is 12 years old, you've already spent 75% of the time in your life that you will spend with them now in modern world. By the time they are 18, you've spent 90% of the time you're likely to spend with them across the course of your life. You only have about 10% left through the course of their entire adulthood that you are gonna touch base with them or see them. And that is a very modern concept, because that is not how humans are meant to function, to go like that and scatter that hard. The 20, uh, what are those numbers? About 100 years ago, most people didn't move more than 15 miles from the place of their birth. They wouldn't even travel more than 15 miles from the place of their birth, or they would get lost and never be able to find their way home. Now, what do we do? "Ah, I'm just gonna pack up, I'm gonna move to Dubai, and then maybe I'll move to Australia. Uh, I saw my parents four or five years ago, I don't remember. I don't know what Dad's doing. Oh, he's dead. Well, that's really sad. I, okay, well, I will cry later, but first I have to fly to France." Uh, it, this is becoming so much more common. And, uh, one of my dearest f- friends, um, his, his, all of the children in his family scattered, and finally, wonderfully, they all came back together to have children, to get married. They gathered around their mother, who was 57 years old, and only, only maybe 5 to 10 years away from retirement age. And all of her family was there, all of her kids were there, her grandkids were there, and then she got a job offer for an extra $10,000 a year if she moved 12 hours away.So completely she just did. It wasn't even a conversation in the family. It wasn't, "Well, what all the opportunities we'll miss. Kids won't even see grandma." No. It was, "$10,000? That's great!" And they simply packed up and moved 12 hours away, after this miracle reuniting of her entire family. That, that is modern life.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, that's terrifying.
- 24:18 – 30:49
Both Men & Women Hate the Dating Scene
- CWChris Williamson
You've got another one here. "Everyone talks about how horrible the dating scene is for men today, but the picture is painted as if women love the dating scene. That's because most men look at women and think they're having a great time, but most women are miserable in dating as well."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Oh, man. I just, I'm thinking of the way that pornography, if a guy's been watching porn since he was 8, 10, 12 years old, here in America, but ch- 10, 12 is a lot, where a lot of guys are introduced to porn. They think women are just... If a woman walks into a dark alley and five men grab her and have sex with her, she's having the time of her life. This is great because a guy, "Hey, if I walked into an alley and five women start having sex with me, that would be wonderful. I hope that happens. Like, I would pay money for that." Th- uh, the things men would pay money to experience, women can wander out and experience anytime they want, and guys look at that and say, "Women must love it. They're lucky. They're so happy. They get to date anyone they want. They can bang everybody on the first date. She could bang 15 guys this week if she wants to. She must be having the time of her life." And then you look at women and you talk to them, and even the ones who have tried hookup culture, the vast majority of them say, "It was awful. I was trying to find love. I was sleeping with them hoping they would love me. I thought it was supposed to be freeing and liberating and it's terrible and I'm miserable." Do some women fall into it and say, "Well, this is supposed to be fulfilling, so I guess it's fine"? Yeah. But those women, uh, many people often eat McDonald's too, and they'll say, "Well, the chicken nuggets are really healthy at McDonald's. That's what I eat." It's- it's if you are used to only having slop available, then you try to find the healthiest slop you can, and that's where most women are in the dating pool right now. And guys think that women are just on cloud nine, and they are just wonderful, happy princesses who are so joyous. That ain't true. Not even clou- not even close.
- CWChris Williamson
No, I think, um, trying to turn down the animosity between men and women is, is a pretty important sort of counter-push at the moment. You know, this, uh, "Uh, look at all of the matches that women are getting on, on dating apps." I'm like, yeah, but have you ever asked a n- normal attraction, attractiveness woman to see the sorts of messages that she gets from men on online dating apps? It's fucking catastrophic. Like it's absolutely... I don't know who these guys are, but they're certainly not the guys that I know, and they're certainly not the guys that I'm showing it to. They're like, "What the fuck is this?" Like, what, h- uh, why, why would somebody try and say this? And, uh, yeah, it's the lack of understanding from both directions. And I had this conversation a few weeks ago that the challenges of men and women in modern dating, for women, are often problems of abundance, and for men, are problems of scarcity. And the problems of scarcity can, uh, seem more noble in a way, because you go, "Well, look, you know, like, uh, uh, at least you have options. I don't even have options." But when you fold in the sort of physical vulnerability that women have, and-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... the slut-shaming and concern of derogating her value, and, "I'm gonna go on a date with this guy," and, you know, Me Too has created this echo of kind of ambient anxiety for all women. Whether it's justified or truthful or not, it creates a, an environment in which it's really, really, really uncomfortable for a lot of women in the dating market. And because they seem to be, like, just swimming in D, guys presume, "Oh, well, they're having a great time." I mean, well, I don't know. I- I- I don't think that it's the case. I think that you would have a lot more happy men if there were a lot more happy women.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
I agree. I have, I have so many people come to me. Let me ask you this, Chris. Conventional wisdom, and, and your own experience. Um, I have a swarm of people coming into my DMs, into coaching, my group, even just talking to me on the internet, and they are overwhelmingly desiring a committed, monogamous relationship. Do you think it's mostly women or mostly men that I get?
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Women. Women. But-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It is mostly women?
- CWChris Williamson
... I can see it coming from, I- I could see it coming from both sides.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Both. You're right. You got, you nailed it. It is both. There are so many men desperate to find a committed, monogamous relationship with a woman who will just be loyal and honest to them, and just kind. Loyal and kind. Those are the two things I hear most of all that m- men are looking for. Women, same thing. "I want a honest, stable man" is what they are usually looking for. Honest and stable, or honorable is another one that they also say. But here's what happens is I tell them, "Okay. Are you, on the first date, being clear that you are looking for a committed relationship? Not asking for one, but being clear that's what you want at the end of the first date." You say, "Just so we're on the same page, I'm looking for a long-term committed relationship. What are you looking for? Do you do that?" "Oh, I can't do that. They'd get up and run from the table. No one wants to hear that. Men don't want that or women don't want that." You would think men are like, "Women don't want commitment. They're just having fun."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. (laughs)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It is. Like, dangling commitment is how men get sex from women. That's how much women want it. But men today have got this psyop against them that women don't want commitment.
- CWChris Williamson
You've got this tweet which relates, "Look, most men in America are just wanting an honest, monogamous relationship with a woman who's not going to betray them or rob them blind, and right now most men under 30 don't believe that sort of relationship is possible. No one wants to acknowledge this disaster."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That's right. That's so right. It's why are there more angry, scared incels? Why are more guys running into red pill? Why are guys committing suicide at catastrophic numbers? Right now as we're filming this, there's guys committing suicide that won't even hear this, need to hear this.It's because they don't believe. They don't believe women want commitment. They don't believe women will ever be loyal to them. They've never experienced kindness, usually from other people. I've got other tweets on there that you've, you've seen. I know you've seen of, um, men that haven't had a hug or a compliment in five to 10 years. They haven't experienced human kindness. They don't even know what that's like. Then they go out into the dating pool hoping to just find a woman that they can quietly live alongside, hoping she'll stay with him like a magical creature that's just in his presence. It, it's horrible. It's horrible. And men and women are both miserable, but men unfortunately do things about their misery.
- 30:49 – 34:36
The Key to Protecting Your Marriage from Divorce
- ASAdam Lane Smith
- CWChris Williamson
"70% of divorces are initiated by women, but it usually follows years and years and years of them begging men to take their relationships seriously. Guys will get online and talk about being blindsided after 20 years of marriage, but usually dismissed every possible sign."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) I wrote this book right up here above my head, Exhausted Wives, Bewildered Husbands, for this reason, is women as... And as much as crap as women get on the internet about, "No woman are loyal. They're all faithless creatures," man, they will stay... You've probably seen women stay with some guy for a long time who isn't worthy of her and keep asking how to fix the relationship. Do you get a lot of women asking you, like, "Hey, Chris, how can I fix my relationship?" Do you get a lot of that? I get bombarded by those questions.
- CWChris Williamson
Thankfully, not. Uh, they, they, they don't come-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... to me for that kind of advice. I mean, my DM requests are a bit of a cesspool. But, um, yeah, there's, there's all sorts of stuff in there. I definitely think-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
All right.
- CWChris Williamson
... that, uh, looking at the cliché of the woman that stays... I mean, women stay with men that beat them.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Women stay with, women stay with men that cheat on them-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Women stay with men that do all mal- They've got gambling addictions, they've-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... frittered away the entire family nest egg, all this sort of stuff. Like, yeah, it's-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It's really interesting to think about this, like the, this insight that guys do get blindsided. "I d- I don't know what happened. Just one day, she up and left." Yeah, well-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... I don't know, man. What happened for the two decades before that?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Correct. Correct. And that's usually what it is, is he really doesn't think that it was a big problem. Most men, they don't track problems unless the woman is clear, "This is a problem and here's how we're going to fix it." They have no understanding. If the man doesn't believe it's a problem or doesn't believe there's an alternate or a solution, he's not gonna solve the problem. The male brain looks, observes, and fixes it, and acts upon. Looks and acts upon. If he says, "She is whining for no reason. She wants constant euphoria. There is no such thing as real love. I'm giving her everything I can. Don't I give you my paycheck every time, every time I get one?" They, they, they map their ability to love onto that and say, "There's nothing more than this." And they don't take it seriously until she's ready to leave. Then he freaks out, but she's already given up. She's already given up by the time he says, "Wait, I'm willing to take it seriously now. Let's go to therapy. Let's go to this. Let's go to that." Then they go into, into couples coaching or couples therapy and then she just says, "I'm done. I'm tired. I'm miserable," and he's done this for 20 years. And the therapist rips him apart, and it's a hellish experience, and that's, that's usually what that is. She's already given up, man. If men could-
- CWChris Williamson
What do you mean?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... learn to track those questions more carefully, it would work.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you mean when you say, "take their relationship seriously"?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Take the ability to give and receive love seriously. Take her, her feelings seriously. Take his own desires seriously. Learn what love is and what it's supposed to be. Learn what emotional intimacy is and do it. Believe he will be taken seriously and open up to her, right? You, you pointed out brilliantly earlier that vul- the conversation online about vulnerability is, if you are ever vulnerable to your wife, she will instantly leave the house and sleep on, with your best friend on your front lawn as you are inside still to- with your mouth open having shared something personal with her. Th- and that's just not true. Yes, if you whine and sob uncontrollably on the floor for six months about a problem with ever- without ever getting up and fixing it, she may lose respect for you. And over time, if you just sit there, yes, she may not respect you as a man anymore. But women crave vulnerability. They crave emotional intimacy. It's how their sex drive works. After the first 12 months, it drops off a cliff if you don't build that. So build the emotional intimacy, she's not gonna cheat on you.
- CWChris Williamson
Related
- 34:36 – 41:21
Why Men Are Demonised in Marriage Therapy
- CWChris Williamson
to what you just said there, "Men are often demonized in the first session of couples therapy. There are two big reasons for this. One, women are usually better at articulating their grievances. Two, criticize a woman too early and she is likely to stomp out of the session."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"Men will just take it." So this is, this is really interesting 'cause it's showing us, um, both what happens from the client side and also from the practitioner side as well, that there's, there's behind the curtain and in front of the curtain are kind of working together here.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. I, I remember going through schooling, so it was six years for a master's degree and then three years of focused apprenticeship under other clinicians to become a licensed marriage and family therapist. Nine-year experience. And I remember the training they gave us about be careful with female clients in couples therapy because they have come in expecting that their feelings will be validated. Don't smother and stomp on the guy, 'cause all of you guys will do that. The woman will be better at crying about her feelings. She will have a list of grievances. The guy is in there treating you like the enemy already, so validate her feelings, try not to stomp on him, and then a lot of therapists would just go in there and do exactly that because she's crying her eyes out, "He's ne- he never loved me, never cares. I do all these things." And he's like, "I'm sorry. You know, I'm really sorry that you're having these feelings." And then the therapist are like, "Well, if this is the direction you guys wanna go, cool. Hey, guy, here's the things you must do if you wanna be a decent..." And then it just turns into this big fest about let's fix the guy. And meanwhile, the woman's challenges and the things she's contributing go completely under the rug, and the guys are exhausted by this. There's a point, there's a reason they don't wanna go to couples therapy anymore.
- CWChris Williamson
What about, "Women are usually better at articulating their grievances"?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Very, very common for that. Um, "I, this happened, it made me feel this way. I didn't like it. Here's what I need you to do instead." Most guys can't articulate their emotions that way. Most guys have no idea. "What, what did I feel? I don't know. Why would I talk about my feelings?" Uh, "This made me mad. Don't ever do it again." And then it sounds like he's just yelling at them and ordering them around. It, it sounds awful. Women will typically use more of what is called non-violent communication. It makes them sound better, it makes them look better. Women have better PR while they are talking about their feelings, and therapists will say, "Wow, you're using good therapy language." Because women have read so many books. They've done therapy themselves. They've watched therapy dramas. They've, they know how to use the language that has seeped into our culture. Men often don't. So, it is. You, you walk in, and a lot of times the woman instantly forms a connection with the therapist. The guy is blindsided, and it's just a, it's, it's a horrible experience for the men most of the time.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I sup- this isn't to kind of lay therapy behavior at the feet of manipulative women.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
No.
- CWChris Williamson
It's just that they, they have a, an unfair advantage when it comes to communicating and articulating the problems that they've got. They've probably spoken to their girlfriends about this issue.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Uh-huh.
- CWChris Williamson
They've had a dry run of this 200 times before already.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Uh-huh.
- CWChris Williamson
And also, I think, based on one of our previous conversations, you said that it's almost always the woman that gets the couple to go into counseling in any case.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah, almost always. Unless it's his Hail Mary pass at the very end, because she has been absolutely done with the relationship, and he pitches it as a last ditch effort. And then he's gonna walk in and be endlessly apologetic anyway, and she's gonna share all her grievances even more, and it's gonna get even worse. So, I remember as a marriage and family therapist, I had to work through that, and they'd come in and I'd have to make sure I did not take a side, that I did not stomp all over him, that I didn't validate, over-validate her. But I remember, I'd say, "What brings you guys in here?" And she would (clears throat) some of the women would clear their throat and they would open their purse.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
And she would pull out a written list, a written list. And the guy's eyes would, like, widen, and he would just, I could see him, like, brace for impact. Uh, it, I, it, it's amazing.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It is amazing what happens inside that therapy room sometimes. And if the therapist isn't guarded, if they're not aware, if they haven't received adequate training, if they haven't taken care of their own problems, if they're, and if they're all overly indulging of, of women anyway in those circumstances, right? Think of police, right? Two people, two people punching each other. The police pull up, they arrest the man, and they throw him in handcuffs. Uh, one of my, one of my very dear friends was in an awful abusive relationship, and the woman was punching him over and over and over in the face, and he was trying to get away, and she pursued him, continuing to punch him. So, he grabbed her wrists to stop her from punching him in the face 'cause he was so bruised, and the police pulled up and his face was covered in bruises, and he said, "She's punching me." And they said, "You're holding her wrists." So, they put him in handcuffs, tossed him on the curb, h- held him down, and then talked to her to see if she wanted to hold, press charges as his face is all bruised from her punching him, and she even admitted, "Yeah, I punched him and he grabbed my wrists." "Okay, well, he could go to jail. Do you want us to take him right now?" That's, that's, you gotta remember that that is brought into therapy too, and you gotta control for that.
- CWChris Williamson
How much are couples using therapists as, like, a mediator or as almost a communication tool rather than as, uh, an expert that can help them work through things? It seems to me, based on a lot of the stories I've heard from you, that it, it's just a, an opportunity to vent. You know, they, they're shouting things into the ether, but they don't actually need to turn and face the partner that's sat next to them because they can tell it to this independent third party and just blast it. But really, they're not saying it for the therapist. They're finally getting the opportunity to take the, uh, stabilizers off and, and unleash all of this pent-up anger.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
You know what? That is almost the better option of what can happen, and what they trained us for in therapy and they warned us in school was this. The vast majority of people, of couples that come in have one of two outlooks. One, "You are going to prove I'm right and change my partner for me." Or two, "I have already given up and I just need to prove it's not gonna work by having a professional tell us it's not gonna work." Those are the two biggest mindsets that come into the- into couples therapy. And they said, "You will oversee so many breakups and so many divorces that you will want to quit your job, so you need to brace yourself for the burnout that is coming as a couples therapist, because it is just a meat grinder." They said, "You might be able to save 5 to 10% of couples who come into couples therapy, because only 5 to 10% actually want a better relationship."
- 41:21 – 47:01
The Disadvantages of Sending Your Baby to Daycare
- ASAdam Lane Smith
- CWChris Williamson
"Daycare has been shown to harm the ability to bond and feel secure, especially for babies. The mental health outcomes later in life are impacted. Research proves this. Saying this out loud can get you fired."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Oh, man. We've already, people are already mad, um, just from hearing that. But yeah, I, I post this online and I get a flood of DMs from people demanding answers, telling me I'm a liar, and all I do is pull up one of the longest running studies in human history about daycare conducted by the Canadian government and just send them the link that shows how daycare, especially early in life and especially in large amounts, outcomes 10, 20 years later in that child's life, much worse. More anxiety, more symptoms, more addictions, more broken relationships and broken marriages, more problems in their life strongly correlated with that daycare piece. Now, does that definitively prove it was just the daycare? No. Was it massively correlated in gigantic amounts that it's concerning? Absolutely. So-Yes. That amount of daycare right there, very, very difficult. What they've shown is that even putting your kids with grandma or an aunt or a relative is even better than putting them into daycare with strangers. That's what the research indicates.
- CWChris Williamson
What are the age range risks primarily for this? Presumably putting them into daycare once they're four years old, like, you know, they're basically in school then, and I don't think that many people would look at school as being something that would negatively impact health outcomes later in life, because kids are going to be at least a little bit more well adapted by then.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Well, American public schools might negatively impact their life outcome. What the research shows is that if you put a kid in public school, there's a 9.3% chance that they're gonna be sexually harassed or sexually abused by a staff member. It's almost 10% here in America, so it's one in 10. Just keep that in mind for public school here in America. It's brutal. Uh, however, yeah, you're right. It is the lower rates, the, the, the lower ages they're born and mom puts them in daycare within two weeks. Here in the United States, maternity leave is brutal-
- CWChris Williamson
Does that happen?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... and even if you can... Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
People put kids in-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Here in the States?
- CWChris Williamson
... daycare after two weeks?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
After a couple weeks, yeah. Daycare, uh, pu- maternity here in America is a joke. It is a joke. If you can get the time off, cool. If you have money saved up to be able to pay for it, cool. If your company has good, you know, maternity coverage, good things like that, great. A lot of moms can't, so a lot of moms, they end up two, three weeks. Maybe they can get six weeks, maybe. That's really like a, "Oh, you got six weeks off? Wow, good for you," here in America. So imagine putting your little baby at six weeks into daycare, and you're not gonna see them for 12 hours. So in the morning, you're exhausted getting up. You don't see them for 12 hours, dump them off with strangers who hopefully take care of them, but they're not mom, and you're not probably having oxytocin bonding experiences as a, as a baby like they would if they were on you all the time, even just skin contact. And end of the day, you are exhausted, so b- beginning of this, we talked about those mirroring things. You don't mirror much to them. You don't engage them and talk with them and do endless mirroring with them. They've just kinda sat there all day watching other people, and then no one engages with them, and they're afraid 'cause they're alone among strangers. This is why daycare is so brutal for young kids. Yeah, four, five, six, if you're doing daycare for six hours a day, you know, something like that, maybe a little bit better. Um, but especially those early ages when you're forming the brain, when you're teaching about love, teaching about bonding, teaching about connection. Absolutely not, man.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I, I didn't know. That's the first I'm hearing about the way that American maternity leave works. In the UK, mothers get nine months batched together so they can... My business partner's wife has worked, I think, up until pretty much she was ready to pop each time because she wanted to maximize the amount of time-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, avail- available after that, but yeah, nine months and then, uh, uh, she, she did something else. I, I feel like she had... I'm pretty sure because she had three kids, and I, I feel like she did something. I'm pretty sure she managed to get sort of 30 months off over the space of, like, four, four and a bit years. So, you know, this very, very large chunk of time for all of these different kids, and then when you've had-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... multiple kids, you, you're overlapping kids upon kids, right? So-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it was, um... That's wild to hear that the US has... So is there no mandatory or mandated maternity leave at all?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Well, there, there are. There are. Um, the pay is often not great, and especially if your employer has to pay, and then you get three, four women on staff who all go on maternity at the same time. They can pressure you to come back. Um, there's, there's all kinds of problems that really contribute to this. But there's not much protection for it. There's almost no paternity leave anywhere. Uh, all four of my children, when they were born, I had to just take unpaid vacation, unpaid time off, or use my vacation time or sick time. I got one week off with each of my children, a single week, and when the first one was born, we were so poor I could barely even afford one week. It was a giant financial hardship for us to be able to take one week no pay. It was rough. So yeah, fathers, no, no, almost zero paternity leave, and mothers, massive, massive, uh, pressure to go back to work as soon as possible, especially the financial pieces. It's, there's, there's almost, there's very little time that moms can really take off here in America at all. We just dump them straight into daycare, and then daycare is so massively expensive that if you have two kids, you may as well quit your job because you're just paying for daycare at that point, so...
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, of course. But you're just cycling through it. It, the money comes from me, from the employer to me, directly to the daycare, and I'm just-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That's it.
- CWChris Williamson
... this conduit. I'm just this conduit
- 47:01 – 52:10
Most Men Don’t Understand Female Communication
- CWChris Williamson
in the middle. All right, next one.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
"Most men don't know how female communication works. They provide solutions, which is what they would want when a woman wants validation. When this is pointed out, most men assume it's untrue because they'd hate to receive only validation instead of a solution."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So true. Is this surprising to you? I wanna ask you 'cause you're about one of the most masculine dudes-
- CWChris Williamson
No, after all of the conversations... (laughs)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
No, after all the conversations that we've had, um, this, this one seems pretty aligned with everything that you've taught me, but the validation solution framework, I, I didn't know how much of it is a cliché, how much of it is just a stereotype.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, that, uh, that, y- you know, even in sitcoms and stuff, women-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... will say, like, "I, I don't want you to give me a solution. I just want you to hear me rant," and-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... I didn't know if that was real, but, uh, according to the professionals, apparently it is.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Think about it this way. L- let, let's make this make sense. So when a woman has a difficult experience during her day and she comes home and she puts down her purse and the husband says, "Hi, sweetheart, how was your day?" And she draws a deep breath and she's gonna tell him everything that has happened today and about how her work enemy did this and how she ate this for lunch and how her shoe didn't look quite right, and she will unload all of these things. Here's what's happening. A couple things are happening. Number one, her logical brain is diminished to fuel an emotional spike over on the emotional agitation side of the brain. That's one thing that's happening. So when you are stressed out, that's what happens. Your logic is diminished. Your emotions go high. What you want to do, what women do is they process this with other women, and as the other woman says, "Wow, oh, I'm so sorry. Whoa. Wow. Oh, that's amazing. Oh," and they give them a hug and they just talk it through, the agitation decreases. So those mirroring neurons come back in. "She's not upset. She's not scared. It's not a big deal. I don't have to stress about this. And she cares about me. She's listening to me. I'm worthy of her time. And then she gave me a hug." It releases all kinds of oxytocin.Again, GABA releases after that. It inhibits the anxiety response. "Oh, I feel so much better. I am loved, I am cared for. Someone gave me their time, and I don't have to feel upset. Ah, I feel so much better after 20 minutes of endless talking," right? Women get this with each other. They do this. Men, the woman comes home. "Well, this happened and this happened." He goes, "Wait, I already have a solution for you," 'cause the male brain observes a problem and then acts upon it. "I found the solution." And we instantly like, "You should do this." And she goes, and she stops because her logical brain is diminished. She's not ready for a solution yet. She's trying to decrease agitation and bond at the same time. She's saying, "I'm giving you everything of myself. You're gonna know about me. We're gonna bond. We're gonna share." Nope. Here's a solution. What he has just done is said, "Take this. Get out of my face. I don't have time for you. Go over there, please. I'm going to go do this thing." He's accidentally doing that. He, he's loving it. He's like, "Hey, I gave you a solution. We found it that fast. We didn't even have to talk for 20 minutes. We talked for three seconds. This is great." He, uh, complete disconnect. She just feels shut down. He thinks he's done great. Her m- demeanor cools down. She gets very standoffish and goes, "Uh-oh." "What's ha- what's wrong, babe?" "Nothing. Nothing is wrong." And she shuts down, and they do this over and over and over. That's how it breaks down. So guys, number one thing, please, for the love of God, if she starts talking, "Hey, babe, I really want to hear this story. Do you want me to just share? Uh, or are you wanting me to find a solution? I just want to make sure I give you what you're looking for right here. Okay, you want me to listen? Awesome, I am here for it." And you settle in with a bag of popcorn. You just eat, and you just, "Wow, that's amazing." Like it's the best movie ever. That, the problem is not whatever the problems you think they are. The problem is she wants to bond with you. Solve that problem by giving her what she wants. If you do this, you'll be the greatest husband on the face of the earth.
- CWChris Williamson
What is the reverse? What is it that women don't know about how male communication works, and what do they get wrong?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Men bond by teaching. We bond by teaching and sharing solutions. Mansplaining, a large portion of mansplaining, is men saying, "I care enough about you to give you this information." Man, look at this podcast. You ask me a question, and I start teaching, and I start guide... Like, this is how men do. And if we hit something where you're like, "Yeah, I know that part," we skip, uh, through it. Men will say, "I know that part. Skip ahead. I know that part. Skip ahead." And we do that until we catch up. Women don't do this. Women will just sit and listen to you and think, "Why is he telling me the most basic stupid things on the face of the earth? Why is he teaching me as if I'm a child? He thinks I'm a child." 'Cause they would only talk to a child that way, so they, "He thinks I'm a child. He's treating me... This is such disrespect." And the man is sitting there going, "Man, this is great. I'm teaching her. She's listening. This is wonderful." And he thinks he's bonding, and then later, he gets a call from HR about mansplaining. This is one of the biggest things right here. If a man teaches and shares and explains, he is d- deeming you worthy of passing on knowledge and expertise. If he's being a dick about it, yeah, that's another problem. But most men just want to teach you. They bond with you. They release vasopressin and oxytocin while they're doing this, and they expect you're doing the same. One of the best things a woman can do is ask a man to teach her or train her in something. It will bond him to you so much better than sex.
- 52:10 – 57:41
The Difference in Perspectives of Past Romantic History
- ASAdam Lane Smith
- CWChris Williamson
Men get retroactively jealous of a woman's sexual past because they think about how much hypothetical fun they would have had if they did what she did. But most women would trade their whole past for one loving partner for life. It's a huge difference in perspectives.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
So let's sort out two things here, 'cause I post this and I get all kinds of guys angry. Like, "Adam, don't you realize there's a biological reason men would like a woman who's had low number of partner..." Well, yes, I do. I recognize that, 100%. 100%. I married a woman myself who was, had, had no partners previously. Um, so I totally understand that. There's a good biological reason for a man to want a woman who does not have 300 partners. Totally fine. Totally understand that. Retroactive jealousy, though, is, "I think she did X, Y, and Z, so she's gonna go do it with someone else. Again, I'm holding her back, or I'm not gonna be good enough." Or there's a massive pressure on the guy, especially if she has experiences he hasn't had, massive expressions on the, and, and, and pressure on the guy to try to perform, perform, perform. He sees, again, women in porn, and, "Well, she wants this. They are always happy in porn when they do this." No, no, no, no, no, no. So most women will tell you that they got involved in, in wild sexual experiences to try to get someone's approval, to try to be interesting, to try to have some stimulation because they were so depressed or so unhappy. I have never, never met a woman that said, "I love my sexual past because it was so fun and fulfilling." The only women who might say that are excessively avoidant women who have no idea what emotional intimacy feels like, so they, uh, they rely only on stimulation. And these are a tiny minority of the population. Most women will say, "I'm glad about, uh, my sexual past only because it led me to the man I am with now, and now I am so fulfilled in our sex life because it is so intimate and bonded." That's what they usually focus on. Women aren't really focused on have the biggest, as many, as many penises and as many large ones as possible and, and 50,000 men and, "Okay, now I'm ready to settle down." That's not really how it goes, like men think. That's how men think, right? Sowing your wild oats, that's a man thing. Women usually are looking for that connection, and they have no idea how to get it. And they are so happy when they're in a good relationship with you.
- CWChris Williamson
What would your advice be to a guy that is struggling to deal with his female partner's sexual past?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Number one, be realistic, if you can handle it, right? If you, if she's your first ever partner and she's had 100 people and you're like, "Uh, this is hard." If it's overwhelming, you might need to just call it because it might be too much. I- it just might. You might not be able to handle it, to be honest with you. No judgment on you either way. Society may call you all kinds of things, but no, I get it. Like, it may not be, it may not be right. Number two, if there's a religious component to it, and if she's like, "No, it was great that I did that," and you're real- she's really avoidant.... then maybe it's not gonna be for you. But what you need to do is this. Sit down and talk to her about her sexual, uh, desires now, her feelings now, her beliefs about sex now. How seriously does she take it? How seriously does she take the bond that happens? What does she actually want from you? How fulfilled was she in those experiences? Emotionally fulfilled? Talk to her about that. "Hey, you did X, Y and Z. What was that like for you?" That's the question most men don't have the guts to ask. "Hey, you had a threesome with two dudes. What was, what was that mentally and emotionally like for you? Was it a great time?" Guys imagine the opposite, and we think it's gonna be amazing. Was it amazing? Most women will say, "No, it was really disappointing."
- CWChris Williamson
But what about the terror if your, th- the love of your life looks into your eyes and says, "Yeah, it was really, really fun when I had two dudes in one bed." That's gonna-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It could be.
- CWChris Williamson
... like, cause some guy's heart to fall out.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It, it could be. Then you need to know that. Don't shy away from the truth, bro. Ask the truth, get the truth, and then say, "Okay, is that something that I'm holding you back from experiencing in our relationship? Do you want to go have that experience again?" She's probably, if she's with you, most likely gonna say, "No, I do not want those experiences again. I actually value our connection so much more than any of the fun I've ever had." That's it. I'm not saying women have never had fun. I am saying that emotional intimacy is the massive driver for the real, real bonding. Orgasm, the female orgasm, it's driven by oxytocin. Oxytocin builds through the emotional connection you share, and then it builds more through foreplay, as long as you do it, you don't do a foreplay for an hour, it will tank, but you do the emotional bonding all day long, through the relationship, and then the foreplay, and then sex. And this is how women often can orgasm through vaginal stimulation without clitoral stimulation. They can do this when their oxytocin is very high, typically. The research is cool on this. And then they can have multiple orgasms, because it keeps chaining their org- their oxytocin higher and higher and higher. A lot of women who can't orgasm, I've worked extensively with a couple where the woman cannot orgasm. Building the relationship and the emotional intimacy builds incredible orgasm experiences for them. Oxytocin, that emotional intimacy, is the bonding point for women. It is female Viagra. So guys out there, if you're jealous of her past, talk about the, the fulfillment she experienced and what would be more fulfilling now. Talk about that, because you're gonna find you are the one who fulfills her more than any of those people ever could have.
- CWChris Williamson
"Most
- 57:41 – 1:01:06
Do Men Want Respect More Than Love?
- CWChris Williamson
men would rather hear their partners say they respect him than to hear that they love him, because respect has an acknowledgment of power he holds and the honorable way he wields it."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Let me ask you, Chris, would you rather hear I love you or I respect you?
- CWChris Williamson
It's pretty close. Uh-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's pretty close?
- CWChris Williamson
I don't actually know. I don't actually know. Uh, there's, like, I've got a soft side to me, so hearing that someone loves me is really nice. But-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Sure. Sure.
- CWChris Williamson
... respect, respect definitely adds something that love doesn't, and I think that love adds something that respect doesn't. Um, but I would (laughs) I would guess that the reverse is not true, that if you were to ask a woman, "Do you want to be respected by your partner or loved by your partner?" That they're not gonna have this same balancing act that I've got to try and do.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Not, not usually. They will say usually that respect is part of love, and that love is the one that's, that indicates that respect is there, but not so in the reverse. A woman can love a man but not respect him, and that's called the friend zone, and you will be friend-zoned if you do that. That is the friend zone. "I love you, but I just don't see you as a guy."
- CWChris Williamson
(gasps)
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That, that's the friend zone. Lack of respect, lack of sex drive, lack of desire, lack of trust. So respect, for men, ultimately more important. And Chris, I mean, you are a respectable guy. I respect you. But have you ever had a woman actually think to say, "I respect you"? Have you ever had that?
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Most women don't even imagine that it's po- it's important.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it's, it's not something that I hear many of my friends saying that, that they've heard from their partners.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-mm.
- CWChris Williamson
I guess, again, the sort of theory of cross-sex mind reading thing, the failure is, well, as a woman, why would I be bo- I'm not bothered. Like, I want, I want to be respected, but, like, the fact that someone respects me is, I guess, mandatory on route toward being loved, but it's not something that I actually strive to have.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And I think, you know, a big, a big chunk of this is probably explained by the fact that status is such a big determinant of a man's, um, survivability, uh, his reproductive success. Uh, it is going to be very difficult for you to accumulate respect without also having status alongside it. So what he hears when somebody says, "I respect you," is you are somebody worthy of high status also. And downstream from status are a whole host of benefits.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Well, honor, right? A woman, if a woman says, "I feel safe with you," that is very close to, "I respect you." "I feel safe with you. You are an honorable man. You are a good man." They usually stop shy of saying, "I respect you." Very few women will actually think to say, "I respect you," to their men. But if, women out there listening to this, I'm sure there's, like, a million women out there right now, learn to say, "I respect you." Walk up to him, put your hands on his chest, lean in, and say, "I respect you." Like, watch his heart melt at that point, because it is, there is trust, there is honor, there is integrity, there is everything good wrapped up in that. Love is, "I feel warmly towards you." For most men, "I feel warmly and affectionate towards you, and I will do what is best for you." Cool. That's love. "You are an honorable, respectable man with integrity, and I trust you completely." That's respect. So guys out there-... push for respect more than love.
- CWChris Williamson
"Many people reading
- 1:01:06 – 1:12:33
The World Doesn’t Want Men to Have Any Power
- CWChris Williamson
the above tweets about men needing to feel powerful will view that as a negative. The ability to feed your children and keep a roof over their head, no matter what the economy is doing, that's power. The ability to achieve a mission, that's power. Many people today are terrified of the idea of men having power because their only frame of reference is abuse. Even men feel this way, which is why they shy away from building the sort of power that would save their life. Become an abuser or commit suicide are their only choices."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Male power is terrifying in the modern world, but men must have power or they want to kill themself. I'm a father. I've got four kids. I got number five coming on the way. I think when you and I started, I had, like, two kids. They're just popping out everywhere. I don't even know how it's happening. Um, I think my wife is just finding them on the road. I don't even know. So, I've got five kids now, coming out, and man, groceries are expensive. (laughs) The US economy is getting so much worse. Our local grocery store had to put cameras in the meat area, not 'cause people are smuggling it out under their coats, but because families are swapping labels from expensive meat to cheap meat so that they... Or big packs of meat to small packs of meat so that they can buy the bigger packs of meat for the same prices. And not just hooligans. They are stealing meat, not for resale, to feed their kids. Families are- are stealing meat just to feed their kids. There's a lot of families that have to choose what day of the week they're going to feed their kids meat right now in parts of this country. And it's- it's worse overseas. There's families that y- you can't even have food overseas, right? What day of the week are we going to eat? Um, fatherhood is about providing. It's about protecting. It's about caring and- and- and doing that. That's why respect is so crucial, 'cause it's the ability to do those things. Power is mandatory for men, and not the power to hurt people. The power to protect and the power to build and create, the positive aspects of masculinity. Like I always tell people, there's no, there's no toxic masculinity. There is masculinity or the lack of masculinity. You embrace responsibility or you don't. And to have responsibility, you have to have the power to fulfill it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, the, um, this sort of conversation around toxic masculinity, uh, uh, and where it comes from had a really interesting framing of it, where toxic masculinity isn't too much masculinity, but a lack of it.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, you know, more virtuous, integrity-driven, honorable, uh, respectable, uh, all of this folded together into a conception of masculinity really, that to me seems to be the counter to what is missing. Like-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, to any i- Most of the modern conceptions put forward by the mainstream media around what an acceptable version of masculinity is supposed to be sounds an awful lot like stereotypical femininity to me.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) It is. "We want you to be feminine so we feel safe." That's usually what it is. "This would make us feel safe." No, it won't. No, it won't, because then who's gonna protect you? Who's gonna make you feel safe in the world? They are scared of men. They are terrified of men. Women are petrified of men, and right now, men are petrified of women. We are all so terrified of each other that men can't be masculine 'cause they're sc- they'll scare people, and women have to be masculine to try to protect themselves from the perceived threats. It's a horrible world right now. We need more masculine men.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, the, the talking about, uh, many people today are terrified of the idea of men having power because the only frame of reference is abuse, and it's tyranny as well, right? It's that sort of tyrannical, overbearing, u- uh, uncaring leader that hasn't got prestige, but has managed to sort of, in a Machiavellian way, get themselves into a position where they can manipulate other people. And I, I, I, I understand, I understand that compulsion, I understand that fear. But the alternative is like, like this recent Lizzo scandal around where it turns out she wasn't body positive at all. She was ma- body shaming the dancers and, you know, that to me is the, like, female body positivity equivalent of the sneaky-fucker syndrome for men. That you have this person who, like, ostensibly is out there, "I'm such a, uh, uh, I care about X and Y and Z," and then you find out secretly that they're one of the worst perpetrators of this. I think Ellen DeGeneres was the same. It's the, it's the senator who is, you know, proclaiming anti-gay bills all day before he goes home to watch, like, gay porn on a VPN from-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) Yeah. ... a non-work laptop. Um- Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... it's, it's just, what is being pushed out and what is being, um, like, pushed back against often identify, I think, where people's desires actually genuinely lie.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
If you think about this also, is radical feminism women who have feminist leanings will close their circles except to people who have feminist ideals, which is, I, I loved how you pointed out the sneaky-fucker syndrome. You have men who engage deeply in radical feminism to try to sneak in, and then they are the worst abusers. So then these women say, "E- the, the men who get it are still horrible, so how much worse must all the other men out there be?" And that really radicalizes them even further.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, very interesting. Yeah, that's-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Because I saw there was a... Do you remember 10 years, 10, 15 years ago, there was a UK feminist who came out and said, "All men are horrible. We have to put them in concentration camps. Women can go visit them, but the world will never be safe until men are in camps." I was like, where would someone get this idea? Well, if she's only been around male feminists and thinking of, what was it, uh, the Weinstein scandal, all of Hollywood, all the male feminists in Hollywood, it turns out that they're raping girls and raping people and doing all kinds of stuff. That's why. The, the, the best versions of men they have seen turned out to be sneaky-fucker abusers, and this is where we're coming from now. They are so scared because they think that's the best version of man.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you seen this trend online of liberal women lamenting the fact that they can't find a man they're attracted to who isn't conservative?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yes, absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
I think a-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's horrible. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... good chunk of... I, I think a good chunk of this i- is played into... With that, uh, there's a, a streamer dude, Vaush, Vaush, Vaush, um, who... Uh, he's going viral on the internet at the moment for basically saying that if you are a liberal woman who cares about her politics, but decides to sleep with a conservative guy, uh, you're basi- basically, like, "You need to give your head a wobble. What on earth are you doing? This is kind of a betrayal," of so and so on, so on. And it's, like, just the biggest display of intrasexual competition and feet stomping and toys going out of the pram that I can imagine. It's like, "Any guy that isn't me that gets sex is unfair."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
That's what I heard.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
(laughs) That's also true. Uh, uh, guys will do anything for sex if they are really insecure. They will do anything for sex. I mean, we will build cultures to have sex. It is incredible what men will do to have sex. And the worse their insecurity is, the more they're willing to give up or pretend or fake. So, I'm curious how many of those women who go out and sleep with conservative men, the men were at least upfront and honest and c- and just straightforward enough to say, "Hey, I'm conservative. These are my values." And the women probably responded to his honesty, his confidence, and his clarity of what he believes and why. It may not be, "He's conservative. That turns me on." It might be, "He is honest, he is straightforward, and he's not afraid to tell me how he feels and what he thinks." Because a lot of guys will use liberal policies to say, "I'm not like other guys. I totally understand. Please approve of me."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
"Give me a pat on the head, give me a sympathy screw."
- CWChris Williamson
Have you seen the-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
That's a lot of what those women say.
- CWChris Williamson
You've seen this data s- showing the skew, uh, liberal versus conservative amongst US schoolchildren at the moment?
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Oh, gosh. It's-
- CWChris Williamson
It's really-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It's hor- like-
- 1:12:33 – 1:16:19
If You Love Your Children, You’d Let them See Your Separated Partner
- CWChris Williamson
you're a single parent and refuse to allow your kids to see the other parent just because that parent hurt your feelings, you don't actually love your kids."
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Love is an action. It is doing what is actually right for the other person, regardless of what it costs you. If you strip away a parent from your child, an irreplaceable bond, because of your feelings, not for what the parent does to the other... to the child, but because your feelings are hurt, you don't love your child. You love yourself and your own feelings, point-blank.
- CWChris Williamson
It's territorial and-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... juvenile and immature-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and shortsighted-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and embarrassing.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
... and possessive of a child. They are an object in your life designed to give you feelings. They are not somebody that you are respecting the dignity of, uh, absolutely-
- CWChris Williamson
And it's leverage as well-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
It is.
- CWChris Williamson
... over your ex-partner.
- ASAdam Lane Smith
And it will teach, it will teach your children to do the same back to you someday.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. That you are, you are a chip to be bartered with. Um, it w- I had this conversation last week talking about parents who struggle to get on board with productivity strategies, or, or they, they take offense at people talking about productivity strategies like morning routines, and say stuff like, um, "Tell me that you don't have kids without telling me that you don't have kids, uh, because y- you talk about some, not even that elaborate, but slightly elaborate 30-minute morning routine that you go through." Uh, and what they're saying is, "I, I have kids, therefore I can't do this." And-
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... Alex, the dude I was speaking to was like, "Well, I hope that their kids never read that. 'Cause if their kids read it, what do they read? They read-"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"... 'Wow, Mom and Dad did you not get to fulfill your dreams because you had me?' Was, w- 'Do, do you hate me? Was I not a, did I not make your life better? Are you bitter about the fact that you didn't get to do your morning routine and instead we had to play in bed together?'"
- ASAdam Lane Smith
Those attitudes come through in your interactions. When they fight with you and they push back on you, you don't respond. You, you don't go online and complain about your kids and how your kids are holding you back from a good life, and then be completely loving and compassionate and cooperative and build a great life with your kids. That's just not how that split goes. Your attitude in one place reflects your attitude during stress and when you're gonna engage with them. Look, I got four kids, man. There, there are, there are times that are stressful when you have many kids, uh, even if one kid, and they throw tantrums and they pee on the floor and they throw blocks at your face and they say, "No, I won't eat that. No, I don't wanna go to bed." And they will go to bed, and then they will sneak out of bed four times in a row. You can tell that this has happened. Um, if you despise what you feel they have taken from you, if you despise the sacrifices that, that you need to make, and if you let those sacrifices be everything in your life, then you will not handle them well during those times of stress because you will unload on them and unload your frustrations on them during those times. Instead, make sure that you are sacrificing the right things in the right ways and prioritizing. My kids know. I have, I've, I'm looking over there in, uh, in my office. I've got a weight set over there. My kids know, "Hey, I'm, Daddy's gonna step away. I'm gonna lift some weights. Daddy's gonna go do this." I just hired a personal trainer. I'm getting my fitness on, on track. "I, I, I gotta do that. Um, I gotta step away and take some meetings for personal trainers." "Daddy, you wanna, why, stay and play with me, babe." "I have to get my health on track so Daddy can be with you for many, many, many years to come."" And I explain that context to them. Build that and build that into your family so your kids will do it too. That's what you do.
Episode duration: 1:22:58
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