All The Big Mistakes Women Make - Chrissie Mayr | Modern Wisdom Podcast 303

1. 0:00 – 3:00

   Intro

   1. CMChrissie Mayr0:00

      I undervalued communication, and I undervalued me liking the guy. It was always like, (gasps) "Am I good enough? Am I hot enough? Am I competing ac- amongst these other women?" Instead of flipping it to like, "Is this guy good enough? Does he even have a job?" (laughs) You know, he was late.

   2. CWChris Williamson0:19

      Chrissie May. Welcome to the show.

   3. CMChrissie Mayr0:21

      Thanks for having me.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:22

      Have you managed to get dog poo off your shoe?

   5. CMChrissie Mayr0:24

      (laughs) Yeah. You know, it's starting to be springtime here in New York, and part of that means going around the yard and picking up poops and throwing them over the fence.

   6. CWChris Williamson0:35

      (laughs) Why is that only a springtime thing? What happens in winter?

   7. CMChrissie Mayr0:39

      (laughs) Well, what happens in winter is they get covered in the snow, and then th- when the snow melts, like, all the poops appear.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:46

      (laughs)

   9. CMChrissie Mayr0:46

      Like, ah. That's kind of what's been happening here in New York. You're like, "Damn, somebody had a busy winter." And then you, like, say it to the dog, and you're like... Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson0:57

       (laughs) I was walking, I went on a little walk earlier on. This is like a weird thing that people who love dogs but don't have a dog do. So whenever someone that's coming towards me on the street is walking a dog on a leash, I won't make eye contact at all with the other person because this is my 15 seconds of dog attention for, like, potentially for the day, you know, if I have a, a bad walk-

   11. CMChrissie Mayr1:18

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:18

       ... and I don't pick up many dogs. So I just... But I wonder what they must think of me, 'cause I'm just this psychopath walking past staring at their dog, like longingly staring at their dog, 'cause I love dogs 'cause they're awesome. And, um-

   13. CMChrissie Mayr1:30

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:31

       ... yeah, I just wonder, I wonder if it weirds people out.

   15. CMChrissie Mayr1:36

       Uh, it actually makes me feel really good to hear that you do exactly what I do. I could not care less about the owner. Like, e- exactly, like I h- I hoard as much dog time as possible. Like, (laughs) I almost think, like, y- you know, like in, when I was in New York City more, like there'd be dog walkers and then you'd be like, "Jackpot." You know, I'd like-

   16. CWChris Williamson1:53

       (laughs)

   17. CMChrissie Mayr1:54

       ... I will cross a street just to meet a dog. And then like, I'm like what would be like the next level thing that like the dog just couldn't... I think if you just laid down, that would be the thing the dog, like, could not avoid. At that point, it's like the dog is gonna jump on you, 'cause you're just like-

   18. CWChris Williamson2:09

       So the human's- the human's just there-

   19. CMChrissie Mayr2:11

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson2:11

       ... to facilitate you looking at a dog, basically.

   21. CMChrissie Mayr2:14

       Yeah, and I, and when I walk, actually it's like my, my boyfriend's mom's dog, but I feel like we're like close. Like, I was there the day she came home, so I feel like, I don't know, we're like, we're close buds. If, when people just go up to Muffin, I don't take it as a personal offense. I'm just like, "No, she's super F-in cute," Like, of course.

   22. CWChris Williamson2:35

       Muffin.

   23. CMChrissie Mayr2:36

       Muffin.

   24. CWChris Williamson2:37

       (laughs)

   25. CMChrissie Mayr2:38

       (laughs) She likes to come in during my, uh, podcast recordings and then she'll like, she'll sort of like put her paws up on me and, like, look, but then sometimes sh- while doing that she'll kick out my internet cord.

   26. CWChris Williamson2:49

       Fantastic.

   27. CMChrissie Mayr2:50

       Which, uh, is less cute-

   28. CWChris Williamson2:52

       That's fantastic.

   29. CMChrissie Mayr2:52

       ... when you have, like, a really high profile guest. I'm like, "Oh, shit." And then you gotta plug it back in.

   30. CWChris Williamson2:57

       Yeah.
2. 3:00 – 7:00

   Common Mistakes Women Make

   1. CWChris Williamson3:00

      away.

   2. CMChrissie Mayr3:00

      Okay.

   3. CWChris Williamson3:00

      I wanna talk about all of the common mistakes that women make when they're growing up, and how to deal with them. Do you think you, are you qualified for this?

   4. CMChrissie Mayr3:09

      I'm very qualified. I have made almost all of the mistakes, so yeah, I think, uh, I think, um, I'm definitely qualified to talk about mistakes in my, uh, (laughs) 20 something odd years of life. No, no, it's like you don't really know until you become 37. Now I can confidently l- confidently look back and be like, "Oh, yeah." Like, if I had a younger, like, sister or niece or something, like a, just a girl in her, like, late teens, early 20s, I'd be like, "Sit down, all right?

   5. CWChris Williamson3:40

      (laughs)

   6. CMChrissie Mayr3:40

      Take, take out a notebook." (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson3:44

      All right. So where do you want to start? What's, what's first?

   8. CMChrissie Mayr3:47

      Oh, there's so much. And, uh, and that's the thing is to start with it's, maybe it's part of the, um, I don't know if it's like this in the UK, but it's definitely part of American culture to, like, fully blame women or fully blame men. It seems like the easy cop-out thing that you see folks doing is like, (sighs) like women love to say, "Oh, all men are stup-" Or just totally group, overly grouping people, uh, like overly grouping the sexes. Like, "Oh, men are dumb. All men do this." And then it's easy for guys who aren't having luck to be like, "Women are crazy. There's, you know, there's no chance. You know, it's too much. It's too difficult." And that's, that's what it is, is like you have to keep going out there despite getting hurt. It's like, yeah, that's, that's also life, you know? I think it's just in the last couple decades we've like glamorized as a culture, like, the, like, uh, the lack of hard work. And I think that kind of bleeds over to relationships, our jobs, our goals, like how we live our lives. It's like I think we need to just make, in general, hard work, like, cool again. And I've had, like, versions of this conversation with so many people. But when it comes to relationships, I, yeah, I can only observe, like, what I've seen, uh, like, what messages I've absorbed as a woman. And usually, like, a lot of young women w- will go for their sources of advice or information, like magazines, or like, for me, I know, like, magazines were big growing up. Or like n- like now it's kind of all of this is mixed online, so it's like our magazines, our news, our apps, is all kind of in this online world, and that's where we go for advice because, like, we don't wanna talk to our parents. Our parents aren't cool. Maybe we don't have older siblings, like, or maybe our parents aren't... Like, my parents weren't in a healthy relationship. They stayed together, but they didn't like... (laughs) They weren't, like, from what I could observe, they didn't like each other. They weren't kind to each other. And, uh, on one side it was great 'cause I developed my sense of humor from their kind of like sarcastic-

   9. CWChris Williamson5:51

      (laughs)

   10. CMChrissie Mayr5:51

       ... constant back, like constantly roasting and, and undercutting each other, and, uh, so that was good for, like, developing my sense of humor. But-... for developing my sense of like what should I look for in a partner, it was shit. And, uh, you know, a lot of times, like, like as women, yeah, we'll seek out like, oh, in magazines or advice from... Now it's like apps and like all these articles. And, um, that is so not the place to go because there's so much bad advice in these like consumerist spaces. And I think so much of that is online and it just seems so easy to- to go for everything online 'cause that's like our- our whole world, is just in our pocket and we're looking, we're checking it 50 times a day. And that was like a big thing I learned from you actually, Chris, the last time we did a show together. I've started charging my phone outside the room. (laughs) I'm like, "Goodnight phone." And then I go into my room and I shut the door and I kind of feel like free. I'm like, "Free at last." (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson6:50

       "It doesn't know that I'm in here. Yeah, they can't get me while the phone's outside."

   12. CMChrissie Mayr6:53

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson6:53

       That's such an interesting point about girls and role models, 'cause we hear a lot about guys don't have the role models that they

3. 7:00 – 8:25

   Girls Role Models

   1. CWChris Williamson7:00

      need at the moment. The Jordan Peterson movement was this kind of, um, father to a million men, so to speak. We don't actually hear that about girls. But you're saying that young girls are also a little bit or can be a bit directionless without role models too.

   2. CMChrissie Mayr7:14

      It's so- it's just in our nature to be... And I don't wanna speak for all women, but like I think a lot of women have this people-pleasing gene. I think it's what makes us good friends, good mothers, good listeners, good nurturers. It's like your strengths and your weaknesses are always kind of together, right? And we could go off on like what- what they are for men too. But there's something kind of uniquely female about people pleasing and like we're perceptive, we can figure out what people want and give it to them without even having them to a- like without their asking. And I think women all, like will, and I can definitely speak for myself, like I would expect that in my relationships. And that's- that's what's coming up for me a lot in my current relationship 'cause we've been together six years and I still struggle with this like, "Well, I can read his mind, I think. Like why can't he read mine?" Or like when, and that covers everything from like what I wanna eat to sexually, you know what I mean? And I go, "Well, I figured your shit out." Like (laughs) you know, not to get too graphic, but (laughs) I'm pretty good, you know. Um...

   3. CWChris Williamson8:23

      (laughs)

   4. CMChrissie Mayr8:23

      (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson8:23

      Yeah, it's, um-

   6. CMChrissie Mayr8:24

      But that's-

   7. CWChris Williamson8:24

      ... I- I- I

4. 8:25 – 11:05

   Agreeable vs Disagreeable

   1. CWChris Williamson8:25

      think that you're right. The agreeableness that girls have is so pervasive. Like it's crazy. When I think to some- the levels of disagreeableness that my most disagreeable girlfriends are, like in fact, I would put it out there that Mikhaila Peterson is the most disagreeable girl that I've ever met in my life. And I'd like-

   2. CMChrissie Mayr8:48

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson8:48

      ... I- I- I-

   4. CMChrissie Mayr8:48

      Sh- she was on my podcast too, and I- I was- I was amazed. I was like, "Of course you're Jordan Peterson's daughter. Like look at you."

   5. CWChris Williamson8:53

      (laughs)

   6. CMChrissie Mayr8:54

      "You're like, you're just like, you're such a bad bitch and you're like just don't apologize." I don't know why. I guess 'cause my mom was very much... I think it's helpful to look at your mom 'cause you're- you're gonna absorb, I think, more from your mother than you do from your father. It's interesting. Like if I had a-

   7. CWChris Williamson9:11

      Hmm.

   8. CMChrissie Mayr9:12

      ... really great father that was like talking to me all the time and giving a shit about my feelings, I think that would've, uh, manifested in the way of like maybe I would've had a better picker for- in terms of guys, and I think that's how that fucked with me. But my mom is my example, like I was... y- you're almost like it's a default, like it's your template for your behaviors, I think. And I never saw my mom like really stand up for herself. Like my- my dad didn't like beat my mom, but like he definitely was like not super nice to her in the way he would talk to her and, um, just made her feel bad a lot from what I could pick up on. And- and like they always fought about money. And my dad would say stuff to my- things to my mom like, "Oh, like the kids are messy. It's all your fault 'cause you didn't teach them to do chores." Like he was so... And he, these are boomers, right? And so you gotta, if- if I'm gonna throw them a bone, like they're kind of imprinted with this thinking of like, oh, like my dad very much thought he could, he handled the outside work and outside the house was for men, and inside work the kids happen to be inside the house. Well, so (laughs) that's mom's responsibility. But it's interesting because now that my mom's passed away and we just have Dad, it's almost... And I like now, it's like I don't, I can easily go a month without talking to him and now he'll, I'll kind of talk to him... And I'm good. Like I've figured out my business. I, like through a combination of like therapy and having the right people around me challenging me, so I've kind of filled in my own gaps and I'm good. But when I talk on the phone to my dad, he'll say things like, "You know, just like call me if you ever need advice or you ever..." And it's like, I feel like he's kind of pawing at something and it's, and it's not to be cruel. It's like, "Yeah, I'm good, Dad." You know what I mean? Like it's almost like he's going for something that he hasn't built.

   9. CWChris Williamson11:04

      Yeah.

   10. CMChrissie Mayr11:04

       You know what I mean? Like...

5. 11:05 – 16:25

   Teaching Your Parents

   1. CMChrissie Mayr11:05

   2. CWChris Williamson11:05

      Well, the other thing as well is there's this weird point that everybody gets to, both guys and girls, where your parents stop being the teachers and start being the students. There isn't a single person listening that hasn't had to teach their mom and dad how to unlock the iPad or to use internet banking or to order something from Amazon or do whatever.

   3. CMChrissie Mayr11:23

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson11:23

      Like, everybody's had to do that. And there's some point where the wisdom direction gets reversed and you're now teaching your parents. And this is probably being exacerbated because our parents' generation and our generation are so different. All of the rules that they used to play the game by, now they no longer work. It's not about a job for life. It's not about hard work and seniority will get you through the end. It's about, like, understanding networking and communication skills online and stuff like that. These are skills that have only come about since we've been here. How could they have ever learned them? And then, yet it is when the power dynamic switches, and, um, there is a little bit of guilt. I th- I can kind of get what you mean there, that you almost feel like...... not patronizing, but, like, a sense of obligation to still let the parent feel the respect. Like, you don't want them to f- now feel like the child. You're like, "Look, I still need to," like you say, "throw him a bone," so to speak. Um, yeah, it's odd. It's so weird when that happens. I don't know when it happens. I think it's about sort of early 20s, 25 maybe.

   5. CMChrissie Mayr12:31

      It is odd. And there's such a difference between the like, of course, I'll show, I'll show my parents or somebody older, or like my boyfriend's parents, like a t- a tech thing. And, and sometimes there are boomers or like slightly younger boomers who are better at it. They take it upon themselves to learn these new skills. And it's like, I d- I don't mind showing someone the same, like, technical thing over and over again. But like, I think my unique thing with my dad is like, you didn't put time in into developing a relationship with me, like, throughout my whole life, 'cause that was always Mom's job. Like, you know, always when you call, call Mom or Mom calls you, like my mom would be like, "Oh, how's this thing? How's that thing?" Even if she didn't, like, understand or know about, like, the intricacies of like my goals or comedy or whatever, she would ask about them. And then it would just be like, pass the phone to Dad. Dad would kind of check in. But really, like, Mom was like holding it down. A lot of moms are like this. Moms are like the glue. And Dad is just like, "Okay. How's your car? All right, bye." You know? But now that the glue is gone, uh, it's a little sad 'cause my dad is just like, "Oh, if you ever need anything..." It's like, "No, I, I don't, because I've learned to go my whole life without needing you for emotional support or..." And then I would kind of pride myself on growing to not need his financial support, but that could be a whole other podcast. But the point is, it's, it's interesting because bec- what I was imprinted with from my dad was a lil- little bit like, I did kind of grow up to be a little bit afraid of men because he, he would spank, you know, like... And, and that's what a lot of baby boomers would do is like you get in trouble. And I would just for some reason test him all the time.

   6. CWChris Williamson14:08

      (laughs)

   7. CMChrissie Mayr14:08

      And then I got to college and I became like a dumb woke liberal, and I would irritate him even more, (laughs) you know, like fighting with him about the homeless, you know, like shit-

   8. CWChris Williamson14:17

      (laughs)

   9. CMChrissie Mayr14:17

      ... that didn't really matter to my life. I just had to fight with him on everything, and I just, I would piss him off constantly. Um, but, but he was just, he would lose his temper, and then sometimes he would like spank. And so like that impr- printed me the rest of my life being kind of afraid of men and, uh, definitely afraid to challenge men. And, and if there was a time, even if a guy I was dating or a male boss would like even raise their voice or even start to feel like they weren't pleased with me, it would trigger that whatever in me. That like, not this feeling like, "Oh, you're about to get hit." But like, it's, it's just like, you learn this when you go to therapy, like what you're sort of, what your inner child or what your child self develops like out of survival and how it affects you as you grow up. So that was, that's been my challenge as an adult. Like, okay, even if, even if you disagree with a male authority figure or your boyfriend, like, that doesn't mean like shrink, shrivel, pull back, be easy, be a people f- be okay with whatever. Be like whatever you want. Or, "Oh, it's not worth it," or like, "It's not worth the fight, it's not worth the conflict, it's not worth the argument." And, uh, pulling away from like having a different opinion does not equal, "This is an argument, this is a conflict, this is something to shy away from." 'Cause if you do that enough, uh, you lose yourself in a relationship. The, uh, it's like you're, uh, if, and when this, um, comes to a boyfriend, you're actually like robbing that guy the opportunity to truly know you, because if you're just endlessly so easy about everything, to food, to the TV, and there's some things I genuinely don't care about. Like, I'm less into TV. I'll, I'll be like, I'll like read a book while my boyfriend's writing, um, watching TV or whatever. But if you're easy in, in the ways that, uh, that you actually have feelings and preferences about, then you're doing yourself a huge disservice. Like, you're not letting the person know your true self, and you're also training yourself to just, um, not speak up in a sense. I don't know if that makes...

6. 16:25 – 19:23

   You Dont Know Who You Are

   1. CWChris Williamson16:25

      Absolutely. I mean-

   2. CMChrissie Mayr16:25

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson16:26

      ... you can-

   4. CMChrissie Mayr16:26

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson16:26

      ... you can bury yourself in just so many personas that you genuinely don't know who you are anymore. That you can paint so many layers of vanilla over the top that you kind of, you, you can't crack through it to, to get to the other side. And speaking from personal experience, the girls who've been the most agreeable, the ones that I've been dating that have been the most agreeable are the ones I've got bored of the quickest, because it's, it's kind of not, it's like dating nothing.

   6. CMChrissie Mayr16:51

      Hmm. Wow.

   7. CWChris Williamson16:51

      It's like I, I'm not actually dating a thing here. I'm just dating this like time delay mirror, like a shit Zoom connection of what I want. Like, "What should we watch tonight?" "Oh, well, you can choose." "Where should we go for dinner tonight?" "Oh, well, you can choose." "And even if you choose something, are you okay with that?" "Yeah, I'm okay with that." It's like, just fucking push back. Like just gi- just give me something here, because one of the things that we want from people, I think, if you come from a growth-minded, and everyone that's listening is in this, they're go-getters, they're people that want to, you know, enjoy life and experience things and improve themselves. If you have that growth mindset, one of the worst things that you can do is to not allow the other person to grow by learning from pushing back against them. Uh, because they're just, they're never going to feel like you have any more layers. They're like, "Okay, so you're telling me that basically everything I found out about you within the first couple of weeks of knowing you, that's all that there is to know, because every time that I say a thing, you just fold over-"

   8. CMChrissie Mayr17:53

      Ugh.

   9. CWChris Williamson17:53

      "... like a, like a, like a limp napkin, and, and then, uh, it's just me. This relationship's basically me with some dense air."

   10. CMChrissie Mayr18:02

       And you're, yeah, it's like you're driving it and the- the woman's, like, in a side car. It's like-

   11. CWChris Williamson18:06

       (laughs)

   12. CMChrissie Mayr18:06

       ... rather, there, there's like, I mean... I think of a good relationship is really a car with two steering wheels, you know, and like, yeah, you can take your hands off the wheel 'cause the other person will steer. Um, but like, yeah, you don't wanna be in the side car with just, you've given up your wheel. And you know what's an- and it's so easy for me to just, like, go with the flow and be like, "You pick," 'cause there's oftentimes I don't care where we eat, oftentimes I don't care what we watch. Um, but it's- I've- if you're a person who's struggling with that and you're so used to him, whatever you want. A good place to start is with what you don't want. Like if- if, uh, it's good to practice this, like, my boyfriend would be like, "What do you wanna eat?" And I'll genuinely think, "Well, what do I definitely not want?" Like, I definitely don't want pizza, I definitely don't want anything like bready or carb-y, and I definitely don't want sushi 'cause we had that last night, and then that can be an easier way to s- to... 'Cause if you're not someone who's used to constantly... 'Cause I always would equate it with being a demanding chick and- and I would always be like, "Well, you don't wanna be a demanding chick. Guys don't like a nag." And then that got so deep into my psyche that I just wouldn't ask for anything 'cause I didn't wanna be a, like, a demanding nag. But to hear you say, like, yeah, you're so (laughs) a woman can be so not a challenge that you lose interest, you're like, "Oh, no!" Like, I don't- you don't want that either? That fucking

7. 19:23 – 26:42

   Dating Girls Who Are Disagreeable

   1. CMChrissie Mayr19:23

      sucks.

   2. CWChris Williamson19:24

      Yeah. It's difficult.

   3. CMChrissie Mayr19:25

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson19:25

      It's- it really is. Like, you don't want... As with everything, the messy middle, like somewhere, some nice little balance of it all, like you want enough pushback, but then I've also dated girls who've been so disagreeable that every- these tend to be the more sort of intellectual ones, but like every conversation has to be justified. It ends up with a debate, like about, "I watched this thing and it was really interesting about that." And then there's a- a 30-minute discussion about... And I'm like, "Look, I just fucking watched a thing. I don't- I don't want to have a discussion about whether or not that guy killed him or that guy killed him." It's like it's just- it's just a thing I watched, like can we move on? And, um, yeah, especially as guys, when dating girls who are disagreeable, I think sometimes you can get almost locked into a- a- a challenge game. You enjoy the challenge of constantly trying to slowly wear down the dic- disagreeableness. Whereas with agreeable girls, what you're trying to do is bring that disagreeableness out of them, so it's kind of the- the balance between the two. Speaking of- of dating, what were the most regular errors that you made when dating guys?

   5. CMChrissie Mayr20:36

      Whoo. The errors that I made? Okay, I did take some notes here because, uh, I have so much to say on this topic.

   6. CWChris Williamson20:42

      (laughs)

   7. CMChrissie Mayr20:43

      The- I (laughs) I, um, the mistakes I made personally, I was- I s- first of all, and- and you guys might not see how this is related, but it ties in. I spent way too much money, like in my 20s, even through my 30s just- and I think the- the plandemic has, like, really made me put these things into perspective. Like I spent way too much money. I was a slave to consuver- consumerism instead of like focusing on discovering my true self. Like of- like of course it's okay to buy stuff, you know? Like I was so happy to buy all my equipment for my podcasting stuff, I'm so happy to buy like, you know, even- even a mug, you know- you know the other day I liked- I did Tim Pool's show, I bought a mug at a diner that- that I was at on the way to go do that. It's like stuff like that is meaningful to me, but like I used to do so much mindless, brainless shopping, and I- I think I was doing it to like fill a void or whatever, um, and I noticed the more you pull away from just being a- a mindless consumer, it's almost like you do it as a stress relief too. It's like I- a lot of the TV I used to watch like when I was much younger, I would watch Kardashians and like the E! Network, like celebrity stuff with my sister 'cause that was like our bonding, shit talking time with my mom too, but like as I grew into like myself more, I would just shop like almost to relieve stress or to like distract myself from like what I'm- what's really bothering me. So if you can pull away from that, like check out of that for a while and then really focus like deeply on like what is it- what is it that I need to pursue? What like- first of all, what brings me joy, what makes me feel the most alive? And like how can I pursue that? And- and for a lot of people it's like how can I pursue that despite all my responsibilities or my day job or taking care of my sick parents? 'Cause I think when you hang onto that thing, that's also the thing that makes you interesting and edgy or whatever in a relationship. It's like, yeah, sure, anybody can be hot or like nice, but it's your interests that I think make you like edgy or interesting or like, uh, make a guy be like, "Oh," like what's- what- this is interesting, like what's- what's under here? And it's so easy, like we make fun of it, like it's so easy to just like be basic and sort of absorb or consume like the sort of basic easy culture. Like any meme account, like Betches or any- any like, you know, TikTok or like memes, like the classic easy stuff that's easy to consume, like if that's- if that's your whole world as a woman, like, ah, man, that's just gonna make you s- like kind of intellectually soft and- and, uh, you're not doing justice to yourself because it's- 'cause it's like if you get to be in your 30s and you're like, oh, you can't name off four things that you fucking love, that's like you haven't spelt that- spent that much time digging, you know? So I would just watch it. If you find yourself watching a lot of dumb TV or just a lot of TV in general, and, uh, I think it's about really finding those- that's your- the job of your 20s I think is like really finding your interests, because that's gonna hold you whether or not there's a guy in the picture, and any guy who's like truly into you for the long run, that's how you can find out if they're- if they're worthy. It's like if they- if they get your dreams and your goals and they help you and they support you in pursuing them, man, that's- that's somebody that you gotta...... look into a little bit more deeply and sorta, like, see that through. And I think the mistakes I made is I overvalued, like, hot sex and lots of sex. And I, I remember, like, there was a month where I was just like Google Calendar, apps, I think I, there was a month where I banged, like, ppft, 20 people or something. But then it was like, it was like an addiction and a high, and then they would, they would leave, and I'd be like, "Who's next?" You know?

   8. CWChris Williamson24:33

      (laughs)

   9. CMChrissie Mayr24:33

      Instead of thinking, like, "Who's gonna, who's gonna be, like, my personal cheerleader?" Or whatever. "Who's gonna be, like, my ride or die, my best friend?" Or whatever. I overvalued hot sex, and I overvalued, "Does the guy like me?" And I completely undervalued, like, communication, speaking up, right? 'Cause I had this, uh, brainwashing of, like, "Oh, being easy and being agreeable means you're not being a nag, and no man likes a nag." So it was kind of, I had to deprogram that. So I had to, uh, I undervalued communication and I undervalued me liking the guy. It was always like, " (gasps) Am I good enough? Am I hot enough? Am I competing, like, amongst these other women?" Instead of flipping it to, like, "Is this guy good enough? Does he even have a job?" (laughs) You know, "He was late." (laughs) Um-

   10. CWChris Williamson25:25

       That's so interesting-

   11. CMChrissie Mayr25:26

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson25:26

       ...'cause in relationships the sexual protagonists are almost always the men, right? The, I learned this the other day, there's something called the Gini coefficient, which is a way that works out inequality within a system. So it can work out the levels of wealth inequality between countries. The level of in- uh, the Gini coefficient for Tinder is greater than 95% of all countries, all-

   13. CMChrissie Mayr25:51

       Wait, Jeanie? Do you mean rubbing a lamp, Jeanie?

   14. CWChris Williamson25:53

       No, G- it's, it's the (laughs) G- G-I-N-I. It's like, just to put, it's just, like-

   15. CMChrissie Mayr25:58

       Oh.

   16. CWChris Williamson25:58

       ... some sort of, um, a particular formula that allows you to work out how much inequality is in a system. The way that it works on Tinder, the bottom 80% of guys are competing for the bottom 20% of girls.

   17. CMChrissie Mayr26:12

       (Gasps) Oh, right.

   18. CWChris Williamson26:12

       And the top 80% of girls are competing for the top 20% of guys. So I, uh, both of those situations you have, um, a funnel that people are trying to get past. And actually, what you've said there is totally correct. If you, as a girl, are aiming for that top 20% of guys, you're basically competing with f- three other girls for every one guy that you're trying to get.

   19. CMChrissie Mayr26:34

       And they all have eating disorders 'cause, so you'll never win. Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson26:38

       (laughs) Yeah, so

8. 26:42 – 27:29

   Girls Fall Back To Consumerism

   1. CWChris Williamson26:42

      another thing that was super interesting, what you said, it feels like girls fall back to consumerism a little bit. They fall back to this kind of very vanilla, um, easy to consume, the Kardashians, the gossip, the reality TV, that sort of stuff, um, and maybe their comfort, their girlfriends.

   2. CMChrissie Mayr27:03

      Oh, yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson27:03

      What I think guys, what I think guys fall back to, on the other side of the fence, is more, um, this k- kinda, like, resentfulness. Like, resentfulness to the world, this isolation, this, um, uh, g- general sort of sense of anxiety and malaise around the world's out to get them. Girls sort of fall into comfortable socializing, guys fall into resentful isolation.

9. 27:29 – 28:01

   When Men And Women Are Single

   1. CWChris Williamson27:29

   2. CMChrissie Mayr27:29

      Yeah. And you see this so much, like, what you've described is the default setting of when men and women are single, right? When women are single, ugh, l- there's this whole culture of, like, girls and brunch and f- especially if somebody in your group just had a breakup, oh, it's all hands on deck, "Fuck men," for, like, a good month, (laughs) you know? There's, "You gotta get a bond." You know, "We gotta (laughs) help you find a rebound dick." Like, "We're going shopping. We're, we're getting you some bangs, honey." You know, all the worst decisions. (laughs)

10. 28:01 – 31:11

    You Need To Shake Things Up

    1. CMChrissie Mayr28:01

       Never

    2. CWChris Williamson28:01

       Is bangs, is bangs one of those, is that a rebound decision?

    3. CMChrissie Mayr28:05

       Like, yeah. A lot of times, there's a, there's a, uh, haircut, who this? There's a, you know, you gotta shake things up 'cause you're like, "Oh, I've just suffered a b- a blow of rejection. Like, I have to-"

    4. CWChris Williamson28:14

       Better cut the fringe in.

    5. CMChrissie Mayr28:16

       "Clearly this was not working-"

    6. CWChris Williamson28:19

       (laughs)

    7. CMChrissie Mayr28:19

       ... "so I need to add bangs to the equation. Now, I'm a new woman." Now you're like, "I gotta (laughs) try again. I have a new haircut. It's blue now."

    8. CWChris Williamson28:26

       (laughs)

    9. CMChrissie Mayr28:27

       Um, when really it's like you need to sit down with your, maybe your patterns, or hey, maybe this fucking guy did you a favor. Like, I tripped over so many guys who dumped me. Like, so many of my relationships, I was the g- I was the dumped. I was not the dumper, right? Because I was like, "Okay, whatever." And e- despite glaring red flags, I'd be like, "Okay." And then the guy would finally dump me. Thank God, you know? 'Cause it, now I look back and I'm like, "Oh, I would've wasted even more time if they hadn't dumped me." Um, but yes, the, the default female culture is like girls, you bond, 'cause maybe w- maybe we're a little bit socially, um, magnetic, like, gravitating to each other, especially when we're younger. It's like this whole girl culture, going out in groups, that's why you get, "Oh, why do women go out and go to the bathroom in groups?" Like, I was never that chick, but I totally get it 'cause it's just... Whereas with, like, men, I think maybe there's, and maybe there is the societal pressure, like, yeah, you have boys night, the man cave, but, like, uh, I think men are culturally a little bit more on their own than women. Whereas, like, women, you kind of, it's okay to have a group. And so when the two sides are single, like, what do you have with men? Like, "Fuck women. She screwed me over. She divorced me and took all my shit, uh, cheated." I mean, either side can cheat, of course, but, like, men and women handle it differently. And, and when men break off from w- women, like, women have their friends, they have their mom usually to bitch to. Uh, men, this is why, uh, men kind of are like, " (sighs) I have nowhere to put these feelings. I have nobody to talk to." Uh, I forget who said it, but in a breakup, men become sort of emotionally homeless, and they just are kind of stuck. And then maybe there's the added societal pressure of, like, uh, men can't be hurt or show feelings or talk it out or see a therapist, right?So, they're kinda dealing with those feelings on their own, and then that's when resentment and anger can, can grow. With women, it's kinda like we get it. We sometimes will handle breakups better because we can purge it out with our friends. We can, like, drink and dance. And then when you're in that fun single place, then you're like, "Oh, yeah! I did really like to do I really liked to snowboard. I really like to do art." It's, it's when we're singles that we remember who we are and we, when we can put more time into our interests because we don't feel like we've gotta cut a chunk of ourself away for a guy. And that's, like, the challenge of, of, uh, of women is to ... You can still be a, a good partner and not lose yourself. You ca- 'cause when you retain what you like and you make time for it, it actually, it's healthier for both of you and it makes you more interesting, you know, to be pursued in, like, during that early sort of courting time.

11. 31:11 – 32:33

    Most Attractive Trait

    1. CMChrissie Mayr31:11

    2. CWChris Williamson31:11

       It's, um ... Certainly from my side as well, I think the most attractive trait that I see in a girl is if I find them, um, like, ambitious. If I admire them. Like, if you admire the person that you're with, that's one hell- especially if you're a growth-minded person because everyone that likes to grow looks up to the people that they think have achieved growth or are achieving growth, and they think, "Wow! I wonder what I can learn from this person?" If that's the way that you view ... If you admire the person that you're with, it's such a, a compulsive powerful draw toward them, and, um ... I mean, what's the opposite of, of admiration? Like, not resentment, I suppose. Pity?

    3. CMChrissie Mayr31:57

       Tolerance? Right.

    4. CWChris Williamson31:58

       Yeah.

    5. CMChrissie Mayr31:59

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson31:59

       And like, do you really want to tolerate or pity someone? Like, that's, that's the precise opposite. And, um, yeah, I would say that for girls, the, the thing that girls don't like about guys based on what I've (laughs) based on what I've read in personal experience, the, the biggest turnoff for girls from a guy is being needy, um, and the biggest turnoff, or one of the biggest turnoffs, uh, for guys from a girl are being too far at either end of that agreeableness or disagreeableness scale.

    7. CMChrissie Mayr32:26

       Mm-hmm.

    8. CWChris Williamson32:26

       Like, if you're yes to everything or no to everything, it's, there's a ticking time bomb here.

12. 32:33 – 37:52

    Do They Support Your Dreams

    1. CWChris Williamson32:33

    2. CMChrissie Mayr32:33

       Wow. Okay. So, if you're like, yeah, if you're like a wallflower or you're like a total bitch and it's like, "All right, c- come on, like, you can't eat wings and watch a game with us? You gotta have your fucking vegan bullshit," you know? Like-

    3. CWChris Williamson32:46

       (laughs)

    4. CMChrissie Mayr32:46

       (laughs) We've all been with that girl. (laughs)

    5. CWChris Williamson32:48

       Wow. How can girls tell-

    6. CMChrissie Mayr32:49

       You know?

    7. CWChris Williamson32:49

       ... if a guy is good for them?

    8. CMChrissie Mayr32:52

       Oh, um, I think for me, it was, like, number one, (sighs) do they support your dreams like they would their ... Do they treat your dreams and your goals like they would their own? And, uh, that's how I kind of knew that my current boyfriend was, like, something really special because I'd never had that with anybody else. I felt like I had to be the cheerleader for the dude, but again, I was, like, younger and, uh, I didn't advocate for myself as much, but I think what my current boyfriend did for me, he knew that sort of people-pleasing part of me, the, the part that doesn't like to, like, you know, let my interests be known, and he would catch that. He would observant and be like, "What do you want? No, really, what do you want?" Like, "I picked the last two times." Or, like, "Tell me ... Like, tell me where you wanna eat." Like, like whatever is not an answer. Like, he would really-

    9. CWChris Williamson33:42

       Draw it out of you.

    10. CMChrissie Mayr33:43

        ... kind of push me on that and draw it out, which I really needed, and maybe a lot of women need that too, is like if you catch maybe a slightly undesirable thing in your girl, it's like, don't just like roll your eyes and be like, " (sighs) Just may- maybe she needs help, like, drawing that out and, uh..." 'Cause that's what the best relationship each of you should learn from the other and help each other grow and fix your, your negative patterns and stuff. Um, and I think, yeah, so it was him supporting my dreams and goals, and it's a big part of getting into a relationship is realizing, like, your source of novelty and excitement as you know it will change, and that's what's, that's where also the culture kind of conflicts. People are, are so shocked, like, "Oh, why is the divorce rate so high?" It's like, because our culture kind of conflicts with the, conflicts with the values that are needed to sustain a relationship. It's like you shouldn't be reading advice columns written by 20-year-old women who haven't ... You know what I mean? Like, I feel like all advice columns should be written by, like, 60-year-olds, you know, or like 70-year-olds-

    11. CWChris Williamson34:52

        (laughs)

    12. CMChrissie Mayr34:52

        ... who've, like, been, been in it with somebody, like, been in the shit. Um, like, don't, don't listen to dating advice from, like, people in their 20s. Like, they just haven't lived enough life. And, uh, and I find a lot of these ad- advice pieces, what they're in, whether it's news or magazine or it's ... What's behind that is either pushing some kind of political agenda or they're pushing products. So, that's why it's good to kind of disconnect, like, really evaluate where you're kind of looking for advice. Like, podcasts, of course, are great, or, like, asking, you know, if you have an aunt and uncle that have been together forever, or your parents if they still really like each other, um, asking them for relationship advice is, is better, I think, than consulting the sort of, like, the mainstream garbage that's out there. Um, and, uh, and this, this concept, like women'll hear this a lot, like, "You deserve it all. Don't settle, girl." Like, (laughs) like, you, you basically telling women that, like, uh, your self-worth is, is equated with not settling, which is equated with, like, if you find one thing wrong in a guy, like, toss him out. This whole, like, you deserve everything or the per- it's giving you the message that you deserve to, the perfect guy, which doesn't exist. And I fear that in the meantime, you could, a woman could be tossing out, or a man could be tossing out plenty of, like, really good people, you know? Um-But it's hard to like... And, and, and ultimately, having a relationship with someone is going to involve, right? Your, your novelty and excitement, as you know, it is gone, right? So, it's not the going out, it's not the chase, it's not the pickup. Like, for me, I love that shit. I loved like, being picked up on like, a, a, a, whatever, weekend or whatever. Fucking, I'd go out Tuesday with my ass hanging out.

    13. CWChris Williamson36:38

        (laughs)

    14. CMChrissie Mayr36:38

        I feel like, "Let's, let's do it." So...

    15. CWChris Williamson36:40

        (laughs)

    16. CMChrissie Mayr36:41

        And that was (laughs) ... So, but you know when you're in a relationship, you're like, "Okay. That's..." You gotta find your novelty and your excitement. You have to kinda build it from the ground up with this person. So, for me, my boyfriend, like, we fucking love snowboarding, and it kind of generates that adrenaline, and it's this sense of achievement, and it's a challenge, and we're like, falling and busting our ass-

    17. CWChris Williamson37:03

        Yeah.

    18. CMChrissie Mayr37:03

        ... and we're like, laughing about that. So, and it's... You can't bring your single life into, into a relationship. S- so, I think the messages that, that young men and women are hearing are not really... are confusing. Um, not th- not that's saying like, "Oh." There are some elements of like, conservatism that I think help in terms of like, yeah, if you wanna settle down with somebody, like, reassess your values. And, and s- I don't know. I think the idea that, "Oh, like, you deserve it all. Like, don't settle," is so damaging because you, you can waste so much time waiting for like, that perfect person, but there's no way to make the idea of sacrifice and working out problems like, sexy. Do you know what I mean?

    19. CWChris Williamson37:46

        Yeah.

    20. CMChrissie Mayr37:46

        Like, you can't really meme that the way-

    21. CWChris Williamson37:48

        (laughs)

    22. CMChrissie Mayr37:48

        ... that you can meme like, "You deserve it all, girlfriend." Like...

13. 37:52 – 38:43

    Demand Everything

    1. CMChrissie Mayr37:52

       (laughs)

    2. CWChris Williamson37:53

       It's just... Yeah, you... The s- the simplest answer often like, is, is correct in principle, but really bad to try and push forward. Like, very rightly so, you should demand everything that you can from your life. You're... As far as we know, you only get one existence. Like, this is the last time that you get to have this time. So yeah, go after the things that you want. But don't be a bitch about it. Or don't be a dick about it. Like, you don't have to hold people to account so ruthlessly that it sucks. One of the things w- I'm interested in why... What it was that you were getting from being picked up and from that attention. What, what was it feeding in you that you en- that was a, a hole or that, that made you feel so good? Why did it feel so good?

14. 38:43 – 40:37

    Being Desired

    1. CWChris Williamson38:43

    2. CMChrissie Mayr38:43

       Oh, it hit like drugs. Like, and I, I don't know if I can fully explain why. It just felt like, um... Yeah, like being... It was super validating, um, being desired. Like, I just loved the chase. I like, loved being chased. I loved like... Even sometimes now, I'll like, look at my random like, DM requests and it'll be... You know, just fans. Like, "Oh, I have a crush on you." And sometimes that'll hit like, a little spot in me that's like, "Mm." You know what I mean? Um, maybe it's, deep down there's a fear of like, being taken for granted or, um, abandoned. I don't really know. I just know that it's, it's always f- And I'm somebody who like, when I'm at my low vibrational, like left to my own devices, if I were single and like, not in a good place, oh boy, could I be a huge slut in like, no time flat. And that would be the only thing I would do, you know? (laughs) I wouldn't... 'Cause I look back at the times where I was like that, oh, I didn't pursue shit except for dick. Like, I was like, "Dick appointments." You know what I mean? I was like, "I... Yeah, that's nice, but I am late for my next dick appointment."

    3. CWChris Williamson39:44

       (laughs)

    4. CMChrissie Mayr39:44

       And then, it would be... If it's bad, it's a joke, it's a story. But if it's great, man, it's great. You'd tell your girlfriends about it. Maybe that ends up in your standup set too.

    5. CWChris Williamson39:55

       (laughs)

    6. CMChrissie Mayr39:55

       And just, um... It was this feeling of like, I, I... Maybe I'm a dude deep down. (laughs) Like, it was this feeling of like, um, like the chase or just like... Really, I would get in my head. I would like... About adding up my numbers and, um, just like, um... I, I don't know. I don't know what was behind it. I think, uh, people would listen to this and say, "Oh, daddy issues. Classic," you know? Maybe. Um, I never had like, a great dad, so I don't know what to compare it to. Like, not that he was great. Like, yeah. He, he paid for shit. He would fix my car, but like, he never really asked me like, what I thought or felt, or like, talk to me about the shit that it was important to me, so...

15. 40:37 – 41:50

    Communication

    1. CMChrissie Mayr40:37

    2. CWChris Williamson40:37

       I, I wonder what it's gonna be like. I, I can't wait to be a dad, and I, I wonder what it's going to be like if I have girls. Like, trying to communicate to girls. 'Cause like, even the wife that you've got, you don't have to communicate in the way that you do from a guy to a, to a girl. It is... It must be s- It, the chasm that you have to leap linguistically, conceptually, emotionally, spiritually, like, it's a, it's a big old, a big old hole.

    3. CMChrissie Mayr41:09

       (laughs)

    4. CWChris Williamson41:09

       Thinking about the... (laughs) A big old hole.

    5. CMChrissie Mayr41:11

       (laughs)

    6. CWChris Williamson41:12

       Uh, thinking about-

    7. CMChrissie Mayr41:13

       Hey! (laughs)

    8. CWChris Williamson41:13

       ... the, um-

    9. CMChrissie Mayr41:14

       I've been called worse. (laughs)

    10. CWChris Williamson41:15

        ... the way that girls often go in and out of relationships. Like, everyone's got that girlfriend. I think it's... I have it personally in my experience, it's more rare with guys, to have the one that is just like, maximum length of time being single is sort of, three and a half weeks. And-

    11. CMChrissie Mayr41:34

        Ah.

    12. CWChris Williamson41:34

        It's like, one ovulation. You get one ovulation single.

    13. CMChrissie Mayr41:38

        (laughs)

    14. CWChris Williamson41:38

        (laughs) And then, and then you're back in a relationship again.

    15. CMChrissie Mayr41:40

        Then you gotta go throw out your scent again. Yeah, you gotta get back out there. (laughs)

    16. CWChris Williamson41:45

        That's funny.

    17. CMChrissie Mayr41:45

        That's why everybody's twerking on cop cars in Miami right now.

    18. CWChris Williamson41:48

        Wow.

    19. CMChrissie Mayr41:49

        Um,

16. 41:50 – 42:43

    Taking time for yourself

    1. CMChrissie Mayr41:50

       oh, God. Now, I wonder if that was me. No, I went, um... I went a couple... Yeah, it was a couple months between my last (clears throat) couple boyfriends. Oh, it's, um... Everyone... I remember my friends gave me shit like, "Oh, you rushed into another relationship." Wouldn't necessarily base it on that because if you're n- You can also take time for yourself in a relationship. You, you may not need to be, uh, "I need to take six months or a year off of dick to find myself." Like, I've heard women do that, but...You should be able to also find yourself or reclaim yourself in a relationship too. Like, those are good skills. It's that whole, like, up, have I lost myself? Am I cranky? Am I angry, irritable? Oh, maybe that means I'm not doing what I want to do. Or like, um, I feel tense. Oh, I'm not, I'm not like saying my true feelings. I'm feeling stagnant, yeah, that probably means something needs to move, emotions.

17. 42:43 – 43:11

    Finding guys

    1. CMChrissie Mayr42:43

    2. CWChris Williamson42:44

       Isn't it interesting-

    3. CMChrissie Mayr42:44

       Ah.

    4. CWChris Williamson42:45

       ... that all, all of those things there I think are, are probably a lot rarer to find in guys, so those are the things that guys can rely on. Like, if a guy go- gets single, at least sort of within my friend group, they'll lean into their business. They'll lean into their entrepreneurship. They'll lean into reading more, meditating more, training more. Um, that's where they'll go for strength, whereas that might be somewhere that girls would go for weakness, or where they would shy away from is where men would lean into.

18. 43:11 – 46:40

    Break ups

    1. CWChris Williamson43:12

    2. CMChrissie Mayr43:12

       I think I have known, like, women, like, yeah, you, when you are single, it's like, "Oh, yeah, like, now I have time for myself again," which sometimes that does mean working out more. You're back to your, like, singer- single girl schedule. And it's like you probably would fill in that boyfriend time with, like, friend time or, like, yeah, trying to get dick time, depending on, like-

    3. CWChris Williamson43:34

       Hmm.

    4. CMChrissie Mayr43:34

       ... how you take it, how you, (laughs) how you take the breakup. It's always good to, yeah, ma- maybe men are healthier in that way, like, "Yeah, I'm gonna focus on my business or strengthen my body, my mind." Like, yeah, that's, ugh, and it sucks. It shouldn't take a breakup for us to kind of recalibrate and reprioritize those things 'cause, man, those things are so important all the time. It makes you a better you. It makes you a better, more interesting partner. So, it's, uh, I think we waste a lot of time being like, "Oh, whose fault was it? What's wrong with me? I need to talk to them, and I need more chances," or, uh, "Oh, I gotta figure it out." Like, sometimes things fall apart and that, that's, I don't know, if you believe in God or whatever, like, things are meant to happen. And it's like, uh, one of you might wanna get back together. Okay, like, see and, see what happens there. But like, yeah, sometimes a breakup can be the, the best thing, and, uh, maybe that person breaks up with you or you break up with them and it allows you to like, ugh, just recalibrate on your whole shit. Um, but I think, uh... God, did I talk about... You were asking... Oh yeah, this is like what women do. Like, we, uh, a lot of us don't ask for things, like, right, in relationships like we've discussed, but also in our careers. And that can lead to so much stagnation 'cause you think like, "Oh, um, if I were good enough, like, they would just hand me the thing or the, or the promotion or the raise or whatever." And I learned like, you know, I learned it eventually, but it would've been nice to learn this maybe 10 years ago. It's like, bitch, you have to ask for it. You have to demand it, especially when it comes to your career and your goals. Like, be fucking annoying. Be the follow-up, circle-back queen, you know? Um, and it, and like, uh, and you won't be annoying, it's okay. Like, when it comes to business, like, you have to just... Learning to not take things personally is also one of, like, the best lessons 'cause if someone's not giving you what you think you want or need in a relationship, like, "Oh, they're not spending as much on me for my birthday as I spent on them for their birthday. Oh, man." Just try to take shit like that not... Like, that's how a woman's empathy and, um, almost like our psychic abilities can come back and like fuck us up, you know? You take-

    5. CWChris Williamson45:59

       Uh, because you're so observant.

    6. CMChrissie Mayr46:01

       ... personal -

    7. CWChris Williamson46:01

       You're able to see the differences.

    8. CMChrissie Mayr46:03

       Yeah. Like, "Oh, I spent $500 on his birthday, and I feel like he spent like barely anything on mine. Does that mean he doesn't really love me as much, or is he cheap?" Or it's like, "He might just be clueless. He might just have like no clue, um, what to get you." And it took me a couple years of my relationship to learn like, ah, I gotta send him a cou- even though it feels weird, I gotta send him a couple links of things I want for like birthday or Christmas, which I was so hesitant to do 'cause me, that felt like I'm being needy. I'm, I'm being too asky. I'm being too demanding. Oh my god, like, once I unhooked... Like, I thought everything was being

19. 46:40 – 50:24

    Advice

    1. CMChrissie Mayr46:40

       fucking too demanding.

    2. CWChris Williamson46:41

       (laughs)

    3. CMChrissie Mayr46:41

       So.

    4. CWChris Williamson46:41

       Is- there's another side of that coin as well, which is like, he should know. If he cared, he'd know.

    5. CMChrissie Mayr46:46

       Oh. (laughs) Yes. Yeah. There's so much of that. Like, I've felt that way about bosses, boyfriends, family members 'cause like, I feel like I'm super perceptive and can figure things out. Well, if I'm this perceptive of them and we've been together the same six years, why can't he perceive things in me? And then you take that personally. Um, so yeah, your superpower can also be your fucking greatest weakness as well, or the thing that, uh, screws you over. But I think another important, like, piece of advice is you get... And for me, I would always be somebody who would get, u- l- have to get advice from all my friends, like, with any breakup. Like, "Oh, what do I do?" You hash it out just to make sure that you're like, you, you know, you weren't the person in the wrong. "Oh, he sucks, he sucks." You have to get that validation that like, you're still okay. And, uh, it can be so easy to get advice from so many other people, but like, the more you can tune into yourself and, uh, the more you can rely on yourself as the person you get advice from, ugh, the better. All the better. Because let's say your best friend is out of the country and you're having a crisis and you're like, "Well, I can't fucking function unless I talk to Theresa." It's like, the more you can rely on yourself, even, even right now, like, I've been seeing my therapist for like, I think four years, and I think I'm about to break up with her.

    6. CWChris Williamson48:05

       (laughs)

    7. CMChrissie Mayr48:05

       Honestly, over politics. Like, it's, it's starting to bother me, like, um-

    8. CWChris Williamson48:09

       Shit.

    9. CMChrissie Mayr48:11

       Yeah. And, uh, and, uh, and I'm realizing like, I think it's okay. And I remember this is the same therapist who like told me at one point like, y- "Yeah, maybe you might need to break up with, like, my current boyfriend." Like, of course we've had ups and downs. And I remember she like... And I was like-I think a younger Chrissie would have been like, "Gotta listen to the therapist. She's the professional." But, like, there was just something in me that was like, "No, just, like, work on this." Like, that was just, you know, saying, like, "Pull through, he's a good guy or whatever." And, uh, and now it's like, oh, yeah, 'cause I started seeing her 'cause my mom was, like, diagnosed with cancer and I was feeling the stagnation in my relationship. But I realized that's just 'cause I wasn't communicating enough. Like, I wasn't... Anytime it feels like, ugh, tense, it's like, it's just gotta... Emotions have to move through. Like, they can get stuck, just like a muscle can get sore or whatever. You just gotta, like, keep talking. That's like num- it's number one, and it's so hard. But, oh, yeah, at least, like, recently with my therapist, like, I was finding, like, she's, she's in New York, like, she's super liberal. And, like, I've, I've found in the last couple years, like, I've been getting, I've been pulling away from, like, kind of, liberal. I'm be- I'm becoming, like, less woke, you know? Like, kind of, anti-woke even. And, uh, I think I brought up that I voted for Trump, and I think after that she started a little bit... I don't know, I could just perceive this slight bit of, like, judgment. And I was like, "Oh, I think I need to break up with her." And then here's what she said that made me realize, like, "Oh, shit, maybe I don't need this therapist anymore." She said, like, "Ah," but, like, she's raising these r- her rates. And then she said to me, like, "Well, I know a couple who makes less than you and they can pay it." And I was like, "Oh. (laughs) Oh. That's, that's interesting." So, it's weird sometimes, just like our, our parents or our therapists, they can sometimes reveal their personhood instead of their, like, heroic, uh, you know, person who gives you advice or something. Like, we're all just fucking people at the end of the day, you know? Do you ha- the more you can, like, look within and be, like, does it tune into your gut? And like, does this feel right? Am I missing something? Am I, am I serving myself? Am I feeding my... Am I listening to my inner child? Like,

20. 50:24 – 52:14

    The Menopause

    1. CMChrissie Mayr50:24

       what's the stuff you liked, you liked to do as a kid and you haven't done that in a really long time? Like, okay, well, it's probably time to make time for that.

    2. CWChris Williamson50:30

       I love that. I love that advice. I tell people that so much. Whatever you did for fun between the ages of, like, eight and 14, you will adore doing when you're 32. Like, it, it's just awesome. Although, I went back and played a sport that I hadn't played in a decade, and I ruptured my achilles the first time that I did it. So, like, condition yourself-

    3. CMChrissie Mayr50:49

       Right.

    4. CWChris Williamson50:49

       ... before you go back into-

    5. CMChrissie Mayr50:50

       Not every- Right. 'Cause I started giving blowjobs at 14-

    6. CWChris Williamson50:52

       (laughs)

    7. CMChrissie Mayr50:53

       ... which is way too (overlapped) would not recommend. I didn't, it wasn't even-

    8. CWChris Williamson50:57

       One thing that-

    9. CMChrissie Mayr50:58

       ... my choice. (laughs)

    10. CWChris Williamson50:59

        (laughs) Oh, God.

    11. CMChrissie Mayr51:00

        (laughs)

    12. CWChris Williamson51:00

        One of the things that's super interesting is, um, for guys, I think there is a, a really important inflection point that we all get to at, like, 27, 28, 29, some are a little bit later, and it's what I've dubbed the manopause. So, it's a change when you let go of the old, quite juvenile, really base, transient relationships. You start to realize, okay, like, I need to understand what the word integrity means. Maybe I don't need to have it just yet, but at least I need to understand what it means. I can't continue to get wasted and get a couple of bags in on a weekend and sniff my head off with the boys until Monday morning, and then, like, not really do anything. I, I can't do that. Like, I need to, I need to knuckle down and, and try and do stuff. And that seems to be really formative. I know there's tons and tons of guys that are of that age group that are going through the manopause right now and are, are trying to come out on the other side as this much more aligned, much more awakened, better understood human. What are the key ages that you found or what are the ones that your girlfriends went through where you saw these real profound changes?

21. 52:14 – 56:52

    The Age of 28

    1. CWChris Williamson52:14

    2. CMChrissie Mayr52:14

       That's so interesting that you say that, first of all, 'cause, like, around the age of 28 is also, um... And, and for... I don't want people that are, like, not into astrology to immediately tune out. But, like, 28 is also the age of, like, your Saturn return. And it's a, it's, it's a year of, like, a lot of sort of, like, change and growing up and things are coming together. And you're sloughing off, like, old bullshit. So, I'm sure that's part of it. Um, it's so different for women because we have the added, uh, thing of am I, do I wanna have kids or not? And, and I would say just, uh, you don't wanna start thinking about that. Like, if you don't wanna start thinking about kids until you're 35, that sucks, because it might take you a few years to, to even find somebody, like, decent who would be a good dad. So, even if you're s- even if you're sitting here listening at 30 and you're like, "I definitely don't want kids," it's like, yeah, if you approach finding a guy almost like who would be a good dad, I think you'll, you'll ultimately end up with a better partner. And, uh, and it's... And that's the thing is, like, hooking up is so fun. Oh, man. But now looking back, I know that, like, there's only really 10 or 12 different kinds of dudes. And, and it's like, uh, you know, you don't need four, five, six rounds of that, you know?

    3. CWChris Williamson53:33

       (laughs)

    4. CMChrissie Mayr53:33

       Now looking back, it's like, yeah, I had a lot of type ones, twos, sevens. I had a lot of twelves, you know? Like, (laughs) like, you don't... You, you know? It's fun to be, like, single and, and slutty. I had a great time. But it's like now going back, it's like, yeah, I would've been good sleeping with half of the guys that I slept with. Like, I didn't need to have that many experiences 'cause a lot of them were the same. You're gonna have a lot of, like, uh, the really hot guy that's out of your league. Not talking to anybody on this podcast, of course. Or, like, you know, the guy with a really great job and he's, like, not too good-looking. Or, or, like, whatever. A guy who's, like, kind of short, but he's obsessed with you. Or, like, uh, the bro comedian or, like, uh, the rich finance guy who's cheating on you. It's like, you don't need to have all those experiences six times. So, it's like, um, not that I would... And that's the thing is, like, of course I have all this looking back. I can say, like, "Yeah, I was a..."The idea is just to, like, figure out what you want sooner rather than later. So, I would say, like, yeah, when you're at a college or at a school or whate- whatever, like... S- and that's the thing, if your goals are in line, if you really are, like... It's the gro- the growth mentality is truly everything, 'cause if you wanna build something and you have dreams, it's like, that has to stay primary. And then whoever comes into that is either gonna support that, and if they don't, well then they need to go because, like, don't lose sight of what you wanna build. And that could just be that, you know, th- that doesn't mean you all have to be CEOs. Like, maybe the thing you wanna build is a family, which is totally cool. But, um, w- try to figure that out sooner rather than later 'cause it's like, the, the goal is to not waste time, right? And e- and even if you're not so set on your goals, be like, "Okay, what do I just value?" You know, whether it's hanging out with your family on the weekends, or... Like, for me, a big lesson was, like, my boyfriend has a, has a son, and I started dating him, the kid was like four years old, now he's 10. And th- the thing that I struggled with was like, uh, basically like, "Why (laughs) why am I not getting all the attention?" Like, I really had to struggle with, like, chunking off a lot of our boyfriend-girlfriend time as like his dad time, 'cause he would see his kid every other weekend. And like, man, like that was a good lesson for me to have because I was also a person who struggled with like, needing a lot of attention. So, it w- it was almost like I finally came to the conclusion of like, "Christy, you kinda need to grow up in a way. Like, this kid didn't ask to be born. Um, he's n- he doesn't solely exist just to keep you from having sex." (laughs) You know?

    5. CWChris Williamson56:13

       (laughs)

    6. CMChrissie Mayr56:14

       I started seeing him as his own, like, own person, and, uh, "Hey, what unique strengths of mine can I sort of impart on him, or how can I..." You know what I mean? How can I give like the best of myself to this, like, young person? And, uh, now I'm this sort of cool step-girlfriend, and we like... And I feel like my sense of humor has rubbed off on him. But it was, in the beginning, I was like, "Oh, he's got the fucking kid again?" Like this is... You know what I mean? Like, I really was struggling with it. It's hard to date somebody with a kid. But, uh, always look for, like, what you can learn in the situation. I don't even know if I'm a- answering the question.

22. 56:52 – 1:14:39

    Getting Blown By The Wind

    1. CMChrissie Mayr56:52

    2. CWChris Williamson56:52

       No, I think that you are. And one of the interesting things that, um, that g- comes up when you, you look at the path of people that haven't got their goals sorted out is they do just get blown by the wind. The sad thing is, um, I wonder... We can all look back with the wonderful perspective of wisdom, right? And X number of years, I'm 33 you said you're 37, look back and go, "God, all of the stuff that I now take for granted," or the i- sorry, "All of the stuff that I value is so obvious." Like, it's so plain, it's now written into the source code of the way that I see the world. Like, I obviously could have realized this at 21 or at however many guys instead of double the number of guys-

    3. CMChrissie Mayr57:38

       (laughs) Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson57:38

       ... or whatever it might be.

    5. CMChrissie Mayr57:40

       Less than 100.

    6. CWChris Williamson57:41

       Okay. So-

    7. CMChrissie Mayr57:42

       (laughs)

    8. CWChris Williamson57:42

       ... I could have obviously atch- reached this because to me now these realizations are so obvious. But one of the problems is, it's not just about having the lessons written out in a bulleted list. And this is why I think that podcasts are so important, because your life isn't changed by an Instagram quote when you're scrolling through. Why? Because there's no context. You're going like booty picture, booty ca- picture, funny cat video, booty picture, inspirational quote, funny cat video. Like, you need the context around the message that you're getting. You need to hear it from a thousand different angles and 100 different people. You need all of the different ex- examples. And you said, like, you don't need to date the same guy with a different name and a different face six times to learn the lesson you could have learned from the first one, but lessons are quite hard learned sometimes. Like, you do need to hammer them home with a number of different mallets, as it sounds like you were hit with. And, um, then (laughs) like...

    9. CMChrissie Mayr58:43

       This is sounding so sexual all of a sudden. (laughs)

    10. CWChris Williamson58:45

        I know. It's the, you keep bringing it up. And, um, yeah, I just think that they're really hard learned. These lessons are super, super difficult to, to get into your head. But certainly, focusing on what it is that you want to do and not taking things... I think everybody takes stuff too seriously, especially when you, when you're 21, the, whatever the thing is that's happening has probably at most happened maybe once or twice before, so obviously it's gonna be a big deal. If this is only your second breakup or maybe your first breakup, it's going to be massive because you've never had one before. When you're on breakup number 20, inevitably just the size of the waves is going to be smaller because the scale of the map that you're looking at is going to be less. So, yeah, I think, um-

    11. CMChrissie Mayr59:27

        Mm-hmm. That's interesting.

    12. CWChris Williamson59:29

        ... we can berate, we can berate ourselves over not arriving at our realizations earlier, but on the flip side of that, I, I wonder how much, how quick we can iterate on it in any case. If you're 23 and single and love, like, drinking margaritas and, and partying with your girlfriends Thursday, Friday, Saturday every week, like, you're not in the place to even receive the message even if you got it.

    13. CMChrissie Mayr59:52

        Yeah. Yeah, and it's just like, uh, I guess it's like you don't learn it until you learn it. It's so wild 'cause you can't, uh... Right, like, and, and I remember I hated hearing when I was in my 20s, "Oh, you gotta have a kid soon." I fucking hated hearing that, you know? Like I, I, I would hear it from my mom and I'd be like, "I don't, I'm not even with a guy I like." You know what I mean? (laughs) I hated, um, you know, I would move from apartment to apartment, I'd be renting forever and my mom would be like... And I would just be like, "Oh, I wanna buy like a nice bed or a nice dr- chest of drawers or something." And she'd be like, "No, don't. When you settle down." Like, she would almost shame me for renting.And, uh, I hated that 'cause I was like, "Oh, in, in her eyes I'm not, like, good enough to buy, like, a good (laughs) piece of furniture yet?" Like, what? Um, so some people are so at odds with, like, what their parents are telling them to do. Um, yeah, it's so... That, that's the bitch of it, is like for women, 'cause it's like s- you could be so convinced you don't wanna have kids in your 20s or even through your 30s, and then you wake up, like, in your 40s and be like, "Fuck, I really wanna have a kid." So...

    14. CWChris Williamson1:01:01

        That's the challenge, right? Like, that's the-

    15. CMChrissie Mayr1:01:03

        Yeah.

    16. CWChris Williamson1:01:03

        ... that's the big elephant in the room, I think, of, of modern life, especially for women. Um, a really reassuring stat is that in the UK more women had children over the age of 40 than under the age of 20 last year.

    17. CMChrissie Mayr1:01:15

        Ooh, whoa!

    18. CWChris Williamson1:01:17

        Yeah.

    19. CMChrissie Mayr1:01:17

        Wow.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:01:18

        Which is, which is pretty cool. Um, but there are some challenges that girls face now. You think about the loss of tradition of marriage, the increase in transient sex, the fact that allowing women into the workplace with more equality actually makes them have to make a really difficult decision. 'Cause previously, if there was no career on the table, you didn't have to choose between career and family. Like, obviously in a democratic society that's a meritocracy where you can be anything you want to be, we love the idea of giving people choices. But the paradox of choice can hurt, because when you have a choice to make that's on you, you're always gonna think about whether or not you made the right one. Whereas if you're just pushed into one direction, people oddly are actually more satisfied with the outcome. So, I'm not s- (laughs) I'm not saying that we need to go back to not allowing women in the workplace, but my point is that dispensing-

    21. CMChrissie Mayr1:02:09

        I would love it. (laughs) Yeah.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:02:10

        Displ- yeah. (laughs) You just stay at home-

    23. CMChrissie Mayr1:02:12

        Yeah.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:02:12

        Read- reading Dr. Seuss books. And, uh-

    25. CMChrissie Mayr1:02:15

        Love it.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:02:15

        ... dispensing with the traditions of the past means that you now have challenges that there aren't any, um, existing narratives to give you the solution to. Now, we don't know what it's like for women to be in the workplace for more than, like, 40 years or 50 years properly. Like, this experiment is two generations long, and we think that we understand how it works.

    27. CMChrissie Mayr1:02:36

        Wow.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:02:36

        It's really challenging. So, yeah, um...

    29. CMChrissie Mayr1:02:39

        It's really challenging. And then there's, like, this whole fear, like, ugh, like, you gotta get a job with health benefits so you can have the kid. But you don't wanna get hired and then immediately take off 'cause you're pregnant too soon, 'cause that looks bad. Are you gonna get shit for that? Are you then gonna get shit for taking a, a, like a leave of absence, um, um, a maternity leave, and then is someone gonna take your job before y- before you come back? Some, you know...

    30. CWChris Williamson1:03:02

        Can that happen? Surely that can't happen.

Episode duration: 1:15:13