Build An Unbreakable Mindset - Marcus Smith | Modern Wisdom Podcast 250

Marcus Smith 0:01 Running marathons, going to work, building relationships, you choose. No one's forcing you. And we need to get comfortable with that. We need to embrace that. We need to acknowledge that. Everyone's like, "I have to go to work." No, you don't. You have to go to work in a number of scenarios because at the end of the month, you get what's called a paycheck, which then gets you the (censored) car that you like.

Chris Williamson 0:23 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 0:25 And that car is feeding into your insecurities. It's giving you temporary happiness. And it's giving you temporary happiness because it's, it's numbing a block that you're not willing to address, which could come from a previous subconscious behavior. You don't have to go to work tomorrow. Nobody has to go to work tomorrow. You choose to. So when I'm in trouble, I, I chose to be here.

Chris Williamson 0:52 Ladies

Chris Williamson 0:53 and gentlemen, welcome back. I am joined by the one and only Marcus Smith. How are you, brother?

Marcus Smith 0:57 Thank you for having me back. Awesome. How, how could I not be good right here, right now?

Chris Williamson 1:02 It's not a bad backdrop, is it?

Marcus Smith 1:04 Mate, this is ... I don't know if this classes as a working holiday for you, but, uh, those ... Yeah. If you're watching... Anyway. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:11 Yeah, exactly. Tune in on YouTube. We're on the 25th floor of Dubai Marina-

Marcus Smith 1:15 (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 1:15 ... overlooking a backdrop that, yeah, it could be like. It's epic.

Marcus Smith 1:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:18 It's absolutely epic.

Marcus Smith 1:19 It's pretty good, mate.

Chris Williamson 1:20 Joe, Joe Rogan, never heard of him. Um.

Marcus Smith 1:23 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:23 So I've been doing my research a lot since I've been out here, knowing I was gonna record with you, and you just continually do mad shit.

Marcus Smith 1:30 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:30 You're a closet psychopath. What are you working on at the moment? What's next?

Marcus Smith 1:34 (laughs) Yeah. I- i- ... Interesting, 'cause sometimes we start, "Where did this all start?" You've gone straight into what's next, which I quite like because next is a ... We're, we're actually gonna run, mate. And this is quite interesting because obviously this year has been mental for absolutely everyone, and we've seen a lot of people naturally get frustrated that events are canceled, travel's canceled, and a lot of people have literally just thrown their hands up in the air like this and done nothing, put on weight, motivation's gone down, and, and it's terrible on a number of levels. We were like, "Well, we know we're not gonna travel this year," and this year I would've run probably about three ultras all ar- in different countries around the world. And so what we did is we looked at the map of the UAE, and I think this is actually the first time I've said this to ... I classify it as the media, mate. To the media. (laughs) Um, we looked at the map of the UAE and I was like, "Okay, what's the challenging parts of the UAE?" And lots of people think Dubai, the UAE, is what we see around us now, which is the marina, it's very beautiful. But there's actually a high point of the UAE which is just about 2,000 meters in the mountains, and there's a mountain range that divides the east coast and the west coast called the Hajar Mountains. And I thought to myself, it'd be really interesting if we could sort of traverse that mountain range and then take a, take a turn inland and end up at my gym. And I sorta said ... And this is how (laughs) these things start, mate. Like, you know, there's a couple of mates and we'll, we'll get on Google Maps and we'll just draw on our phones and just send different things to each other. It's almost like a, a gamble or a guessing game. How far is it? And one of the boys goes, "Oh, I think that's about 250." I said, "Yeah, I think it's a bit longer. I think it's about 300." Anyway, so we got this idea and then ... And this is honestly, mate, how it starts, is then one of the lads goes, well, the boy I was sending it to, Rob, he goes, "When are we doing it?" And so this is how these challenges kinda start a lot of the time, mate. And you know, it's

Marcus Smith 3:45 ... (laughs)

Chris Williamson 3:45 Some people, it's like the way that you guys go on about endurance events-

Marcus Smith 3:48 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 3:49 ... is how normal people talk about going out for dinner.

Marcus Smith 3:51 Yeah, kind of. Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 3:53 "So, have you heard about that new place? Yeah, does, does good sushi."

Marcus Smith 3:56 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 3:56 "The seafood's really nice." You guys look on Google Maps, like the, the, the TripAdvisor of suffering.

Marcus Smith 4:01 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:02 And you're like, "Yeah, that one looks like it could really fuck us up. Let's do that."

Marcus Smith 4:05 Exa- ... Yeah. Let's do that. And that's, that's kinda what it was. I mean, like, we've gotta finish the year strong. We've gotta make it count and, and we've got to... We have a, a ... I consider that we have an incredible responsibility to the people. It's something I take quite seriously, to, to set an example. People need to come into an environment and have people that they look up to that are doing good things, and I take that very, very seriously and very, very personally as well, that I should always be raising the bar for myself and for other people. It, it is quite selfish in a way, that I want to explore my potential, but in doing so, I wanna let ... Make people think, "Actually, what is, what's my potential?" And we're all climbing a different Everest, if, if you want a clichéd way of looking at it. So if someone can look and go, "Well, these idiots are gonna do this, then I can do this." So yeah, mate, to answer the, the question, we're gonna run 300 kilometers. It is 300 kilometers from the highest point of the UAE. It's 200 kilometers through the Hajar mountain range, which is about 6,000 meters of elevation, and then we're gonna take a hard right turn, and then the last 100 kilometers is across desert, and that will take us to, to, to my gym, to Innafight. And the initial plan ... This is kind of where-

Chris Williamson 5:20 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 5:20 ... the whole year has just been amazing for timelines and, and when we talk about goals, you know, if anyone that uses the SMART principle, it has to be time related, (laughs) you know? And I was training a few weeks ago and I was, I was descending and, and, and my knee sort of ... I came across a problem with my knee, let- let's put it that way, like a sharp knife going through my knee. And so now the date that we were gonna complete that challenge is obviously not realistic anymore. It doesn't work. And I sat down with Rob and, and ... Actually, I think we did it over WhatsApp, and I said, "Listen, mate-"... if you want to continue the challenge without me, I'm there. I'll ride a bike next to you. I'll drive a car as much as I can next to you. And he's like, "Mate, time's not a problem. We'll wait and we'll do it as soon as you're ready." So, hopefully by the end of the year, mate, we'll be the first piece- p- people to... which is quite important for certain (laughs) reasons. We'll be the first people to sort of transcend the, the, the Ha Giang Mountain Range, 300 kilometers, and hopefully we'll get it done in just over two days. So-

Chris Williamson 6:20 Really?

Marcus Smith 6:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 6:21 So, and what will you do? Will you aim to have a little rest stop? Have you planned that end as well?

Marcus Smith 6:25 Yeah, yeah. So, the way that we look at it is that we, we go for about six hours and we try and complete about a marathon every six hours, and then we would rest and feed, which would take anywhere 90 minutes up to two hours. We also want... we also... it's important to understand that all those... these races and these challenges are races. You need to respect your, your body and your mind, and we always try and buffer on the edge. If we push, like, we could go 24 hours straight. We've both done more than that before, but then we might fall off the end. So, we're, we're looking at sort of six on, two off, and we'd get through it... we think we'd get through it in just over two days. So, I mean, it's easy to say you've got those two hours when you sleep but, mate, with adrenaline and... l- I've been in races before and it's like, okay, it's rest time now and you try and lay down and your heart's just going boom, boom, boom.

Chris Williamson 7:17 I was gonna say, what does that feel like? Obviously, you know that you have this small window in which to do the recovery-

Marcus Smith 7:22 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 7:22 ... and you're there and you can't get yourself... y- everyone that's listening knows what it's like-

Marcus Smith 7:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 7:26 ... to try and get to sleep. I need to be up early tomorrow. The difference is you need to be up and start running.

Marcus Smith 7:30 Yeah. It's... mate, it's savage, and it's a... it's... i- it's a mindset thing though as well. Like, there's two things going on. There's the actual chemical reactions in your body, what your dopamine's doing, your melatonin's all over the place, your cortisol's through the roof. Like, that's, that's real. So, it's not like I can't sleep. Like, you can't sleep, so you gotta sort of deal with that. But you also... it's almost like... how can I frame this? If you're f- if you're scared of flying and you've got a flight the next day, you don't sleep. I know... I- I'm sure you don't sleep. Or if you're scared of anything that's coming up. It's the same thing, because after six hours, six hours in we'll have run 40 to 50K, we still have 250 kilometers to go. This part is a complete mindset. The physiological side, what's happening in your... i- in your brain neurologically, you... that is normal. But the mindset of how to control, be it anxiety and to stay cool, that's something you can actually train, mate. And from my first race 'til now, now it's, it's not that difficult. Like, I've done stuff... I trained a little bit for, for what they call Backyard Ultra, which is 6.7Ks on the hour, every hour, for, for as long as you can go. And I trained that one night on my own out here in the desert for 12 hours, and the first two hours was pretty shit because I'd... I, I didn't know how to behave. But after that, mate, I'd come in at about 40 to 45 minutes, quickly drink something, eat something, and then just get into... literally, mate, into a Savasana position from yoga and just breathe. Alarm would go off at two minutes to the hour, shoes were already on, stand up, drink some water, and go. And I trained that for 10 hours. So, now, coming into that relaxed state actually becomes easier. And I think if, if people can take anything from, from what I've learned is we have to train these things. Like, they don't just happen. You have to... l- I had 12 hours that night training it. A lot of people want to, want to be able to do stuff, be it related to mental resilience, be it number of different areas of life, and they're not willing to spend that time in, like, experimentation, if you wanna say. And, and, and with that, a little bit of discomfort as well, you know? So-

Chris Williamson 9:54 I've been thinking a lot this year about mental masturbation.

Marcus Smith 9:57 Yeah (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 9:57 Everybody... everyone this year has had far too much time to think and far too little time to do.

Marcus Smith 10:01 Yes.

Chris Williamson 10:02 And a lot of that has been outside of our control. Gyms have been closed.

Marcus Smith 10:06 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:06 So, if your gym's closed and you don't have weights at home, y- you're restricted. You're stuck to-

Marcus Smith 10:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:10 ... fucking... everyone's sick of burpees in 2020, right?

Marcus Smith 10:12 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:13 Um, but what that causes, and all of us that listen to podcasts and consume audiobooks and read and stuff like that, we can end up being so cerebral that we forget that the implementation is where the work happens.

Marcus Smith 10:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:27 Yes, it's important to know what you need to do, 'cause if you don't know what you need to do when you go to do it-

Marcus Smith 10:31 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:31 ... you're just kind of flopping around.

Marcus Smith 10:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 10:34 But you need to go and do it.

Marcus Smith 10:36 You k- you have to do, mate. It... 100%. Like, you ask anyone who's listening to this show, how many books, podcasts, YouTube videos, et cetera, et cetera, have you tuned into, have you learnt from in 2020 versus 2019 and 2018? You're probably up two or 300%. How much action have you taken with the knowledge that you have? You're probably down 1,000%. So, we've got all of this knowledge now and we've got all of these thoughts going along, and we're making excuses that we can't do. You can still do. If you read in, in, in... what's one of the big books that I've read this year? Ross Edgley, The Art of Resilience, True Art of Resilience. Incredible guy. There's a lot of learnings in that, but there's a lot of stuff that you can implement on a daily basis. Like, really, how does your... an- I was talking to a guy the other day who was having problems with... essentially with, with, with rejection and self-confidence, so he gets scared when he's coming to teach p- re- coming into contact with people, to talk with people. And I was like, "How often outside of those situations are you actually training that?" You know, man, I love to create, like, just, like, scenarios, and I was like, "Well-"I wonder if a way to overcome that would be to go and run down the beach track one morning and force yourself to s- make eye contact with and say hello to absolutely every person you see. Begi- it's quite a sick sort of trick, isn't it? But if you've got confidence issues, at the beach track in the morning, you might see 200 people. Guaranteed, 100 people are gonna reject you, either 'cause they're fucking assholes or because they're- they're just in their zone. And I respect that, mate. Not everyone says hello. I- I always abuse them when they don't... (laughs) but that's... Do you know what I mean? And I'm like, we can create these scenarios to do with all this knowledge that we've learned, but we have to be committed. And the doing, it's easy to read and to get excited and for dopamine to be released in our brain. And- and literally, mate, it's masturbation. Like, we've got a fucking boner.

Chris Williamson 12:45 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 12:45 We're always so excited. I'm not sure what you can sell this guy, but it's still, we're super excited about it, but let's go out and do. Like, let's- let's keep on the masturbation side. Let's stop reading the porno and let's call a girl up and go on a date.

Chris Williamson 13:00 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 13:00 You know? This shit resonates with people, mate, sorry.

Chris Williamson 13:03 That's an analogy everyone can li- can understand from 2020, I think. Yeah, absolutely. It's been good for a lot of things, but bad for sex.

Marcus Smith 13:10 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 13:10 Good for mustaches and good for podcasts, but terrible for- for partnerships. Um, a couple of years ago, you had a huge accident.

Marcus Smith 13:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:17 Broke a bunch of ribs, punctured a lung.

Marcus Smith 13:20 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:20 Ruptured- pulled your scapular off. And you said it was part of one of the best years of your life.

Marcus Smith 13:24 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:25 How- how does that work?

Marcus Smith 13:27 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 13:27 How does that fit in?

Marcus Smith 13:29 Yeah, mate, it's interesting. Three... I guess, three thing, three big things happened in 2018 that are... I believe that moments in our life obviously define us. And when I look back at 2018, three really big things happened, maybe four, which if you kick it off on the 9th of February, and- and this is totally legit, you can't change this. Go back to my Instagram, mjdsmith, 9th of February, I posted a quote that said, "Everything happens for a reason." 10th of February at about quarter to 8:00 in the morning, I nearly lose my life. (laughs) Wild.

Chris Williamson 14:02 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 14:02 Three days in intensive care, five days in hospital, injuries that you just said. And when I was in that hospital bed, I thought to myself, "If you can't ride a bike, what can you do?" And the answer was run. And I- I have quite a decent background, I've run a lot, in running. And I was like, "Well, I'll run." And I read Dean Karnazes book, 50 Marathons in 50 States in 50 Days, in, I think it was May or June time. And then I made a decision that, in line with Dubai Fitness Challenge of 2018, which is a 30-day fitness challenge here in Dubai, I'd run 30 marathons in 30 days. And I was like, "What a better way to- to- to come back from it?" So I've crashed, and then I've proven that you can recover, and then about a week after I finished, on the 24th of November, I finished, and on the 5th of December was my 40th birthday. Like, how can that not be the best year of your life, you know?

Marcus Smith 15:03 You just-

Chris Williamson 15:03 Well, I mean, the crash, the crash to most people would seem like something that would be a huge setback, and it would appear-

Marcus Smith 15:09 But why though, mate?

Chris Williamson 15:10 Well, because you've gone from someone who was capable, who had these plans for ultra bike races in a year-

Marcus Smith 15:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 15:18 ... across different countries, and that's now stopped.

Marcus Smith 15:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 15:21 And when we go from one world to another, often that's perceived as a challenge or, uh, a bad thing.

Marcus Smith 15:28 So, but yeah-

Chris Williamson 15:29 As- as a negative.

Marcus Smith 15:29 ... and that's... I wanna... Like, the word you just used there is super important. It's perceived. And we're living a lot on perception, perceptions and thoughts that we create based on the opinions of others, a lot of the time. We've been told that those things are bad, and this relationship is always bad. I'm- I'm not in a good place. And mentally, we... Mate, I still have it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not- not bulletproof from it. The first few days after a- a buck on my knee, I was not in a good place, mate. And we know what goes with it, relationship. I'm not having a good time with my wife in those days, you know? At- at work, ah, it's just too much. We're not bu-... But this is because this, in my opinion, it's a subconscious behavior that we've been drilled into us around perception, 'cause we're told. Guys, shit happens. Things happen for a reason, and even when things happen, we can't change them because they've already happened. But perception says it sends us backwards. Come on, 2018, I learnt shit that I would have never learned. I had tough times, mate. Don't get me wrong. I fu-... Like, I was like, "Why is this happening to me?" You know? "I'm- I'm bulletproof." But then you look at it and you go, "This is the way it's supposed to be." And that's when we have to embrace this stuff. Otherwise, yeah, we see it as regret, we see it as setback, and we get asked this a lot, like, "What do you regret the most in your life?" Fuck off. Nothing.

Chris Williamson 17:10 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 17:10 Because if I regret, I'm holding onto these things, mate. So, it's easy to sit here and say that, and we're almost reading the porno where we should be having sex. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:20 But you've been, you've- you've been there. This is you post-coitally. This is the pillow talk-

Marcus Smith 17:24 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:24 ... from you, right? Like, you've done, you've done-

Marcus Smith 17:27 I love it. (laughs) This is gonna go through the whole show. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:28 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's a common thread. Welcome to the porno podcast.

Marcus Smith 17:31 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 17:32 Um, uh, yeah, so a big part of that is the fact that you've been there and proven it.

Marcus Smith 17:38 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 17:38 And I think that that's the difference between hearing a motivational speaker and hearing someone who has been forged in battle-

Marcus Smith 17:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:47 ... talking about their experience. That's why it resonates with people so much more.

Marcus Smith 17:50 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:50 Um, so I just wanna go back just a little bit. You had this...... accident, you're laying there. I just want to go through kind of what's in your mind because hearing this-

Marcus Smith 18:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:00 ... and hearing you where you are now with this, these lessons that you've taken away, this mental resilience-

Marcus Smith 18:07 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:07 ... it's hard for people to believe that this guy could ever have a negative thought-

Marcus Smith 18:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 18:13 ... could ever feel like things are going badly.

Marcus Smith 18:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:16 Yeah, he just bounces off stuff like a, like a rubber ball.

Marcus Smith 18:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:20 So, what goes through your mind when you hit by a truck? What goes through your mind when you laid up in hospital and you don't know what your recovery's gonna be like?

Marcus Smith 18:29 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:29 Can we just talk about the mindset there?

Marcus Smith 18:30 Yeah, mate, yeah. I, I ... And the example is really ... or, or the reality, it's not an example, it's what happened. So I wake up in, in ICU. And mate, ICU is pretty rough. Like, it's ... The ICU I was in was just curtains, not separate rooms, so literally (clears throat) the guy next to me is dying. Like He's, he's dying, mate. And I'm trying not to die.

Chris Williamson 18:57 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 18:57 Like, it's pretty fucked up.

Chris Williamson 18:59 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 18:59 So I'm laying in this bed and you've got... I've got oxygen going in through my nose and it's uncomfortable 'cause you've got these things up your nose. And they've just put a, they've just put a tube into my lungs to, to drain the blood off. And I've got a catheter in. And you're like, you've got different bits and then a machine up here that's just beeping your pulse. And I'm like, you know, "Can you turn it off?" They're like, "No." I'm like, "Why not?" And they, uh, uh, like, "Because then we won't know if you're dead or alive." And it's brutal, mate.

Chris Williamson 19:27 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 19:28 And, and you're drugged up, which is the only good thing because you need the, those drugs to take away the pain. And

Marcus Smith 19:35 so you're on and off sleepy. And I remember waking up, mate, and I was, I, I was in a low point. It was awful. I was, I was really... I think to, the easiest way to explain it was I was, I was playing the victim mindset. I was like, "Why has this happened to me? What if it was different?" And I ... Mate, we'd ridden the route before and every time we'd ride this route, we'd stop at petrol station. There'll ... It'd be about an hour to the petrol station. Lads would have a coffee, bit of banter, and then we'd carry on the way. We pull into the petrol station on this day. Uh, "My round, lads. Who wants a coffee?" No one wants a coffee. I said, "Okay, no worries." We just get some water and we go. Obviously, mate, if we'd have had a coffee, the truck wouldn't have been there, it would've already gone and I wouldn't have been able to buy a latt-

Chris Williamson 20:24 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 20:25 That's it. If there's one, like what's the biggest learning?

Chris Williamson 20:28 Always have coffee-

Marcus Smith 20:28 Always have a fucking coffee. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 20:31 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 20:31 You know what I mean? And I'm there, mate, and I'm, I'm really just thinking all these thoughts and I'm like, "What if? Why me? I just wish it wasn't happening." And Holly was laid ... Uh, was sat at the side of my bed and I could see she could see some discomfort in my face, and she said, "What's wrong with you?" And I tried to s- ... I sort of started explaining, you know, "Why me?" And she looked at me, mate, and she says that I'm not emotional enough and I say that she's too emotional, but literally in this scenario-

Chris Williamson 21:09 It flips.

Marcus Smith 21:09 ... it was flipped 180 and she just looked straight at me and she said, "It happened." (laughs) Literally heartbroken, I'm like, "For fucks sake." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:20 (laughs) The one time I wanted some fucking sympathy.

Marcus Smith 21:22 The one time. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 21:22 Come on.

Marcus Smith 21:22 And she, she just sat there, mate. She didn't cry, she ... Nothing. And she said, "It happened." (laughs) And I ... It's like literally someone's just taken the wind out my sails. And I sorta just, I didn't react and I laid there. I was like, "She's fucking right." And then I went a little bit back to sleep with this thought. And I think it was that point where I just accepted. And acceptance is hard. You break a leg, to accept that you've broken your leg and you can't walk for a time. Your relationship breaks, to accept that you're gonna be on your own, you're gonna have to ... It's awful, mate. But we have to go through it. It's part of the healing process. And it's, it's what I call the Ultra Mindset, is that a lot of the time our first point is denial. "Didn't happen. This relationship's fine. No, it's not." Do you know what I mean? I couldn't kid myself, mate. I was laid diagonally across the bed, I had these tubes coming out for me, I could hardly breathe. I couldn't move my hand. Like d- ... I can't say I'm not here. So the first step is we have to admit that there's a problem. And her saying that got me out of that victim mindset. And it was funny because I sort of probably went back to sleep and then I woke up and I looked at her and I smiled. And she's like, "What's wrong with you?" I said, "I ... You're right." I said, "You know what I'm gonna do?" She's like, "What?" I said, "I'm gonna start training." (laughs) She's looking at me. She's ... I don't know if she wanted to cry, mate, if she was laughing or, or, or what was going on. And (laughs) I looked down at my body and I think they'd cut my cycling kit, which hurt my soul. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 23:20 Your favorite cycling kit. (laughs)

Marcus Smith 23:21 (laughs) And there cutting through it. I think I still had my cycling shorts on, but they'd cut all the bib bit off. And literally, mate, I'm laying like this and I put my hand on the table and I looked at this hand, my whole left side of my body's fucking broken. And I just went, I just said, "What can I do right now?" And honestly, mate, with everything I had, I just turned this hand like this. And I was so emotional, but I couldn't cry. I'm not, I'm not a very good crier, mate. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 23:55 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 23:55 Long story.... here. And then, I'm like, I think I'm fucking a dog with two dicks. I've gone, "I wonder if I can get it back."

Chris Williamson 24:09 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 24:09 (laughs) Do you know what I mean? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 24:10 Yeah.

Marcus Smith 24:10 And everything is reset. And I'd done it once, and then, of course, I'm like, "Okay, if I can do it once, I can do it 10 times." Literally, mate, and that took me about five minutes. And I don't know if physically I was drained, but mentally, emotionally, everything else in my body was completely drained. I was crying without tears because I knew that that was the point where I'd started my recovery. Because I knew admitting to Hollie and her being that cold with me and that honest with me that it happened, had let me get out of denial and admit the problem, and now I can start to recover.

Chris Williamson 24:53 So, what are the principles that you've taken away from that? The radical acceptance of things that have happened-

Marcus Smith 24:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 24:58 ... understanding that you can't change the past?

Marcus Smith 25:00 Yes. That's number one.

Chris Williamson 25:02 Focusing on what you can do to improve your future?

Marcus Smith 25:04 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 25:05 What else?

Marcus Smith 25:05 The, the... And I mean, and that's, that's the process w- that, that, that we go through. Admit that there's a problem. Then you sort of, you, you reject that that problem is gonna stop you from, from achieving what you wanna achieve in life. These things are gonna happen, mate. Right now, I can't run. That's fine.

Chris Williamson 25:23 I snapped an Achilles three months ago.

Marcus Smith 25:25 Same thing. You know? But look at the energy that you're putting into the podcast, for example. So, then we, we, we reject the fact that it's gonna stop us. Then, and this is the hardest thing, mate, just relax. We can't... You know, m- how many times when we were kids did our parents just send us to the room, "Calm down for 10 minutes." "Aah!" You're banging the door down, you're having a fit. "Just calm down for 10 minutes." So, the third point is we have to relax. And then the fourth point, the most important point, is what I did and how I explained it with my hand there, is what can I do right now to make this situation better? There is always something you can do. In some scenarios, if you and I are having an argument and we're just about to blow, sometimes what I can do right now to make this situation better for both of us is just to walk away from you. That doesn't feel like, that doesn't feel like it's going towards the goal. And this is the problem, because we're told all the time that you've got to keep tracking up, you've got to keep moving forward, you've got to get closer to your goal. Every day's a day to win. But that doesn't... And it's true, but it doesn't mean that we have to be going this way.

Chris Williamson 26:38 The path's not necessarily linear.

Marcus Smith 26:39 It's not linear, mate. Life's not fucking linear. What you can do right now is what your parents tell you. Go to your room, sit down, relax. You know? So honestly, mate, they're the four key things that I, I, I take away from it. Admit that there's a problem, reject the fact that it's gonna stop you from getting what you want, stay relaxed, and figure out what you can do right now. And what you can do right now, sometimes is... And I've said it before when, when, when I speak about my ultra races, sometimes I have to sit under a tree for five minutes-

Chris Williamson 27:13 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 27:13 ... and let the competition fly past because I'm on that red line and if I keep going, I'm gonna go over that red line. Sit under the tree for five minutes, and later that day, you go sailing past them. If you don't, they'll beat you every time. It's the hardest thing to do. It's a very tr- tricky way to look at things to either go back because society perception tells us we've always gotta go forward. But in going back, you're going forward.

Chris Williamson 27:42 Mm-hmm.

Marcus Smith 27:42 And that's really important.

Chris Williamson 27:44 One of the things that I'm fascinated by is maintaining motivation outside of situations like that.

Marcus Smith 27:49 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 27:49 So, during that period when you're just coming off an accident, you're just coming out of an incident, everyone will know. The, it's the New Year's Day motivation, right?

Marcus Smith 28:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:01 I've just had this-

Marcus Smith 28:01 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:01 ... the emotions are high, I'm compelled, I've filled myself full of all the stoicism and Ross Edgley that I can, and I-

Marcus Smith 28:07 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:07 ... feel like I'm able to get over this. How are you ensuring that you don't start to lose motivation in the, in the messy middle? That you hit that valley of despair-

Marcus Smith 28:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:17 ... when the motivation and the energy starts to dip?

Marcus Smith 28:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:19 And for me, this is a, a personal question, I'm at three and a half months post-op-

Marcus Smith 28:25 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:25 ... now on my Achilles. The... It's the most drudge work, boring, consistent everyday heel raises-

Marcus Smith 28:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:33 ... everyday stretching. It's painful.

Marcus Smith 28:36 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:36 It hurts every step that I take.

Marcus Smith 28:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:38 Every step I'm reminded that I snapped my Achilles.

Marcus Smith 28:40 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:41 Every single time that I want to walk, I can't move as quick as my friends. I can't... I tried to hop across a street yesterday in Dubai, and I haven't tried to move quicker than a walk and I realized that I had to do this weird, like, heel hop thing where I-

Marcus Smith 28:54 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 28:54 ... 'cause I've got no, I've still got no tension in my Achilles.

Marcus Smith 28:56 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:57 And I'm like, every single day, "This sucks. This sucks."

Marcus Smith 28:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 28:59 Three and a half months in and this is that valley of despair. How are you continuing your recovery? And also, how long was the recovery to get yourself back to full fitness from your accident?

Marcus Smith 29:08 Super good questions. There's a, there's a, there's a lot going on and, and a few different answers, mate. The number one thing that I wanna share is a lot of people say, "Oh, you recovered super fast." I'm like, "No, I didn't." You never saw the 10,000 reps I did like this, or the 5,000 reps I did like that. You never saw it. I spent hours. And we all spend hours. I, I feel your pain, mate. Achilles, heel raises, the whole thing. It's brutal. How do you maintain that? One of the... Let's talk about what tools we have right now. Smartphones. We're non-stop taking selfies. I often look back to the pictures that I have on my camera reel of when I was in hospital, when I was in intensive care.... at my lowest point. And then I'll take a selfie on that day, and you see the difference in your face, your body language. It's incredible, mate. We're not taking enough, what I would call, inventory of where we're at on a number of levels. You, three months ago, three and a half months ago, when you snapped your Achilles, you couldn't walk. When I walked in here today, you came up to the door, you lunged forward towards me, you're on your toes, and we embraced. That takes an incredible amount of power for the Achilles. You're in an incredible position, mate. But we feel the pain the whole time. It's almost there to remind us. But what's that pain there to remind us? Relax. Just today, we're only going to this level. We're not gonna run again. People get down because they're not tracking their proce- their progress. They're not taking inventory. Flip back through your camera roll of what you could do, or what you can do now, how your face looks, how your body language looks. It's all there. It really is all there. We're not using... Technology, I love it and hate it, mate. We're able to sit here now, have this conversation, and in a few days time, people around the world are unable to go through their walk through the marina and listen to us talking shit. (laughs) It's fucking brilliant. And we use it for that, but when we're in a hole, we don't use it. There's gonna be dark times. 14, 16 weeks, not able to walk properly, pain in your Achilles is a nightmare, especially the Achilles because it, it does everything. (laughs) You know, uh, just let me get this pot out. Uh, I can't. You know. (laughs) You just, there's so many things you just can't do. It's like a calf injury. It's awful. So we, we, we're constantly reminded about the negative side of it. That, again, feeds into our subconscious and makes us think that we're not doing well, we're not progressing. Spend time each day feeding your subconscious, not bullshit. And this is the difference. Lots of people say, "I'm okay. I'm getting better. I'm getting... I've lost one gram this week, I'm really in good shape." No, you're still a fat fuck. You know what I mean? Like, it just, it's not like that w- we need to bullshit ourselves, but we need to keep feeding our subconscious the positive things as well, because there's a lot. We need to celebrate the small victories. Like literally, mate, the day that I could bring my hand to parallel, to, to eye level, was just incredible.

Chris Williamson 32:39 So, who are you celebrating with? Are you celebrating with yourself? Is it important-

Marcus Smith 32:43 Of course.

Chris Williamson 32:43 ... to share this with other people?

Marcus Smith 32:44 Yeah. I, me, I celebrate a lot-

Chris Williamson 32:48 (coughs) .

Marcus Smith 32:48 ... with myself, which sounds a little bit fucked up, doesn't it? (laughs) Like, because I think for me personally, a lot of time, I don't think people can understand it. Not because I'm special or, but there's no one that's inside my head except me. Sometimes, I'll celebrate, I'll, I'll, I'll tell Holly I'm super excited about something, but without sounding nasty to Holly, she can't connect with that thing. Like, I try and explain what I feel when I, when I run 10K or when I run a 100K, it doesn't resonate with her. So you're not gonna... And this hurts us as well. We're not gonna get a positive reception from someone who doesn't understand. It just doesn't happen. You have to pick the people in your life that understand you.

Chris Williamson 33:42 Who understands you?

Marcus Smith 33:43 I have a few people, mate. I have a few mentors that I've developed over time, or just incredibly good friends. I don't have many friends, I'll be honest. I know a shit ton of people. There's not many people that... Not because I don't want to develop friendships, but that I just don't feel understand me in a certain way.

Chris Williamson 34:04 I've got this

Chris Williamson 34:05 quote from Alain de Botton, the guy behind The School of Life, and he says-

Marcus Smith 34:08 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:08 ... "Loneliness is a kind of tax that we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind."

Marcus Smith 34:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:14 And it's my favorite video, Why We're Fated to be Lonely.

Marcus Smith 34:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:17 Um, and, uh, that's natural. No one looks at the things that you do physically and presumes that you are a normal representation of a human-

Marcus Smith 34:27 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:27 ... because not many people run 30 marathons in 30 days-

Marcus Smith 34:29 Yeah, sure.

Chris Williamson 34:30 ... and decide to do the stuff that you do. And yet, when we hear that someone like that, non-typical physically-

Marcus Smith 34:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:39 ... h- is non-typical socially-

Marcus Smith 34:42 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 34:43 ... maybe struggles to find people with whom they can connect-

Marcus Smith 34:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:47 ... that doesn't necessarily click straight away, but it should make sense.

Marcus Smith 34:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:51 "Loneliness is a kind of tax we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind."

Marcus Smith 34:55 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:56 And the more extraordinary you are, the fewer people are like you.

Marcus Smith 35:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:00 Um, given the choice between honesty and acceptability, a lot of people choose the latter.

Marcus Smith 35:05 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 35:05 A lot of people will choose to nerf the edges of the way that they operate, the way that they think.

Marcus Smith 35:11 True.

Chris Williamson 35:11 And that feeds us back into what you were talking about before, that we, we absorb our values and our desires and our operating procedures from society-

Marcus Smith 35:24 Yes.

Chris Williamson 35:24 ... from the people around us.

Marcus Smith 35:25 Yes.

Chris Williamson 35:25 And that really rids us of what makes us special.

Marcus Smith 35:28 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:29 You are-

Marcus Smith 35:29 Absolutely.

Chris Williamson 35:30 You are a very unique combination of your genetics, your past traumas, your paths of least resistance, the way that you s- speak, the way that you move, the fact that when you do a snatch, your right arm doesn't go as far back as your left arm. You know, all of-

Marcus Smith 35:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:41 ... the individual things that make up the uniqueness that is you.

Marcus Smith 35:43 Yes.

Chris Williamson 35:45 And I am a huge champion of people trying to embrace their weirdness.

Marcus Smith 35:50 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 35:50 Like, stay weird-

Marcus Smith 35:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:52 ... is the most, th- the single most powerful phrase-

Marcus Smith 35:57 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:57 ... that I've heard over the last few years.

Marcus Smith 35:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:59 It reminds us that our uniqueness is our competitive advantage.

Marcus Smith 36:02 Agreed, mate. Um, I'd love to say.

Chris Williamson 36:04 And yeah, I think that-It's interesting for people to hear that, looking from the outside in at this guy who owns a gym, you know, thousands of people, tens of thousands of people-

Marcus Smith 36:14 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 36:14 ... in Dubai who will have seen him. You're on the side of the Burj Khalifa-

Marcus Smith 36:16 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 36:16 ... running up the side of the world's tallest building.

Marcus Smith 36:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:18 Not physically. Um-

Marcus Smith 36:20 (laughs) In a crop top. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 36:21 In a crop, in a crop top, yeah, exactly. Um, and yeah.

Marcus Smith 36:25 (coughs)

Chris Williamson 36:25 There's challenges with making connection with people-

Marcus Smith 36:29 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 36:29 ... because the price that you have to pay-

Marcus Smith 36:32 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 36:32 ... in order for that level of performance is this slight disconnect.

Marcus Smith 36:36 Yes.

Chris Williamson 36:36 And again, this is something else I've been talking about a lot this year, what is the price that you have to pay to be that person?

Marcus Smith 36:43 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 36:44 What's the price you have to pay to be Elon Musk?

Marcus Smith 36:46 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 36:47 Like, everyone looks at him and thinks, "Unbelievably productive guy, running Tesla, getting us to Mars, doing all of this stuff." But you don't know what Elon Musk's relationship with his body is like.

Marcus Smith 36:55 Correct. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:56 Maybe he hates what he sees in the mirror.

Marcus Smith 36:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 36:58 Maybe he's not had an erection in years.

Marcus Smith 37:00 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:00 Maybe he can't... uh, he doesn't have a relationship with his father. Do you wanna pay that price-

Marcus Smith 37:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:05 ... to be Elon Musk?

Marcus Smith 37:06 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:06 Conor McGregor, everyone looks at him, ubiquitous success.

Marcus Smith 37:09 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:10 But do you want to live in your parents' attic for six years, rolling the same sequences, throwing the same combinations with a... on jobseeker's allowance?

Marcus Smith 37:19 It's mental, yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:19 With no promise of success at the end of it?

Marcus Smith 37:22 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:22 Do you want that life? 'Cause that's the price you have to pay to be him.

Marcus Smith 37:24 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:25 And I think because we only get to see the highlight reel-

Marcus Smith 37:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:31 ... of most people's lives, and even when people decide to post the open and honest insights into their lives, they don't get as much exposure-

Marcus Smith 37:40 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:41 ... as the successes do.

Marcus Smith 37:42 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:43 Inevitably, we presume that people live in these highlight reels-

Marcus Smith 37:47 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:47 ... where actually it's just front row seat failure-

Marcus Smith 37:50 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:50 ... as you fall from, like, mistake to mistake.

Marcus Smith 37:53 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:53 And, and hearing insights like that I think are really, really important, because it reminds us that even the people we think are super human-

Marcus Smith 38:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 38:02 ... have their weaknesses and their vulnerabilities and their failings that we might not have.

Marcus Smith 38:11 Yes.

Chris Williamson 38:11 You know?

Marcus Smith 38:12 Yeah, mate, and it, it, it's totally true what, what you're saying because I'll wake up some mornings and we all get it, mate, "I'm just not feeling it. I'm just not feeling it." You know? But when you have (clears throat) a decision making process, and I think this is the biggest thing that's lacking, we're all humans, we all have a lot of the same feelings and emotions. We go through ups, we go... We wake up, we're not feeling it. Not every day, mate, do I feel like going out and doing my training. I have the same thoughts that you have that someone who's, you know, feels like they're at rock bottom. We have it. But we've narrowed the choices, because, for example, my decision making process when my alarm goes off is to get up. I don't have a choice at that time. If I wake up and I'm feeling like shit, there's only still one choice, get up. If I've planned a training session, there's only one choice, do it.

Marcus Smith 39:14 Unless there's a real reason why I shouldn't. Obviously, the day after I-

Chris Williamson 39:18 So, so that unless, that-

Marcus Smith 39:21 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:21 ... is the point at which get up, unless... And the tolerance that people have for that-

Marcus Smith 39:27 Yes.

Chris Williamson 39:28 ... is where the rubber meets the road with this stuff.

Marcus Smith 39:31 Absolutely, mate. And th- that's the problem is that, you know, "I'll set my alarm for 7:00 in the morning, and if I wake up and I feel okay, I'll, I'll probably go to the gym." Like, come on, you're never gonna go. Like, you know you're not gonna go. Whereas, "I'll set my alarm (clears throat) for 5:59 because I'm gonna get out of bed, I'm gonna put my trainers on, and I'm gonna go for a walk," which suddenly changes the whole world. If you don't feel great when you wake up, that's okay. It's fine. It's normal. There has to be, Brené Brown talks about it, there has to be this vulnerability, mate. I, I go through lows. But when I'm in that low, the, the, the option is, or the goal is, is to make that trough as small as possible. I've got clients, and we've all known people that have been off for two weeks, just not feeling themselves. "Far out, what have you done about it?" "Nothing yet." "How long you been feeling like this?" "A month." "What? So you've tolerated waking up every morning for a month feeling like shit?" "Yeah, I thought it was gonna get better." It doesn't get better. And this is where we have to understand we all go through it, but I think people that, what you used, bounce back, just identify it. Go back to what we were saying earlier, admit it, "I'm feeling shit. No, there's nothing wrong. But I feel like shit. There is something wrong. We admit that there's a problem. Let's go for a walk and let's see what happens." Is it my mind? Is it my thoughts? Is it physically? Do we scan our body? Do we take a, a, a morning naked, uh, mi- bathroom mirror selfie? Back to the phone. One of the best things, mate, to track your progress. Make a bathroom mirror selfie. Please make sure your iCloud is not synced up. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 41:25 Is not linked, yeah, exactly. This is, this is one of those huge, uh, huge data breaches that ends up happening with-

Marcus Smith 41:30 Isn't it? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 41:31 ... Marcus Smith's nudes leak on the internet, doesn't it?

Marcus Smith 41:33 But we have to have this decision making process. If anyone thinks that Elon's not having a bad day, if anyone thinks that I can sit and talk about motivation and I... because I run, you're making an excuse for yourself. We're all going through tough times. It's not easy. But that decision making process and our tolerance of how long we're gonna be in a bad mood is totally our choice. And we've gotta have... But we also have to train it. And not everything you try will work on every situation. It's like being a handyman and only having a hammer.You're- (laughs) you know, I know that's a shit cliche, but really, that's the thing. And you've learnt... We've said it. You've learnt all these tools in 2020. We've read more books, listened to more podcasts than ever before. Try some of those tools. Don't just... We're- we're pretty quick to accept, and I think that sucks because we accept that feeling shit is part of life.

Marcus Smith 42:33 It is, but it should only be (laughs) a small part, is- is- is our objective.

Chris Williamson 42:38 There's a thing that Marcus Aurelius used to do called the equanimity game.

Marcus Smith 42:42 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 42:42 And he used to imagine falling off a horse and it was a game to get back on. And increasingly, like life as a game is something that continues to come back. I really do... I- I haven't quite worked out why I love it so much, but I think it just reminds us that a lot of the challenges that we're coming up against will, in some future point, just be a memory.

Marcus Smith 43:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 43:03 They'll just be like an instant replay that we can go back to in our mind. Like a perfect example of this was after I had my operation, um, some of the opiates that I was put on caused stomach inflammation. So for about three days after my op, I was unable to sleep, unable to eat, was laid up in bed with my foot on a big wedge, just in constant seven out of ten pain. Couldn't do anything, like for three s- days straight.

Marcus Smith 43:31 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 43:31 No one could take the pain away. I'd stopped taking the oral morphine, the codeine, the paracetamol, the ibuprofen because I wanted the stomach pain to stop, which meant that my ankle now, only a couple of days post-op was... that pain was through the roof.

Marcus Smith 43:44 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 43:44 And I was doing all of this with one leg.

Marcus Smith 43:46 Wow.

Chris Williamson 43:46 So when I needed to go to the bathroom to not do anything, I was hopping there, I was having to use crutches, I was in the dark, I was feeling miserable, I was on my own. Mum and Dad would come and see me or my housemates would come and see me or my friends would come and see me. They can't do anything. They can't take it away. And at the time, it feels like a- a existential curse that's been given just to you.

Marcus Smith 44:06 Yes.

Chris Williamson 44:07 That this is your pain, this is your suffering to bear. And now, when I look back, it's just a story I tell on a podcast. And I'm like, me then would hate hearing me now being so flippant about it. It's like, "No, it was really... It was- it was bad. You're not forgetting how bad it was."

Marcus Smith 44:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:23 And I'm like, "No, no, no, it's not about that." And trying to put ourself into that third party perspective, I think, like treating life as the equanimity game-

Marcus Smith 44:31 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:31 ... how quickly can I get back on the horse? Okay, like I'm inevitably going to fall off.

Marcus Smith 44:34 Of course, yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:35 How quickly can I get back on? I think that that's a really nice way for us to frame it. And I'm a big fan of maxims and pithy statements because I think that they- they spearhead big concepts that would take us 10 minutes to remind ourselves of-

Marcus Smith 44:49 Yes.

Chris Williamson 44:49 ... into just little aphorisms.

Marcus Smith 44:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 44:52 Are there any other things... You're going through an event, you're suffering, you're deep in the hole.

Marcus Smith 44:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 44:58 What are the things during that time that you remind yourself of? Are there certain phrases and aphorisms or concepts that you rely on to keep going?

Marcus Smith 45:05 You know, I've been asked this a lot recently. (laughs) I don't know, I don't know why. So I've- I've actually had more thoughts about it. But one of the things that I think of the most is, you chose to be here. I choose what I'm doing. No one's got a gun at my head. And when you think about it, we have, now more than ever, an insane amount of choice. And running marathons, going to work, building relationships, you choose. No one's forcing you. And we need to get comfortable with that. We need to embrace that. We need to acknowledge that. Everyone's like, "I have to go to work." No, you don't. You have to go to work in a number of scenarios because at the end of the month you get what's called a paycheck, which then gets you the shit car that you like.

Chris Williamson 46:02 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 46:04 And that car is feeding into your insecurities. It's giving you temporary happiness. And it's giving you temporary happiness because it's- it's numbing a block that you're not willing to address, which could come from a previous subconscious behavior. You don't have to go to work tomorrow. Nobody has to go to work tomorrow. You choose to. So when I'm in trouble, huh, I chose to be here. The other thing is, and I think it's... there's a few other things as well, is that this is the moment. So a lot of the time we'll get, "I wish I wasn't here. I wish I was on the beach." You have to go... You mentioned Marcus Aurelius, you have to go a little bit stoic. You have to look at creating presence. You have to... Everyone's tried Headspace this year or Calm or whatever, for sure. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 47:02 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 47:02 Like 80% of the people that are listening to podcasts have definitely tried it and, and probably 90% have stopped already (laughs) 'cause they don't need it. But you have to get in the moment, and this is something that's totally lost. Because the first thing we do when we face adversity is we try and leave the moment. We try and go back, "I wish I was still on the beach," or we try and go, "I can't wait 'til I can go on the beach again." And that's what I was doing in that hospital bed until I went back to sleep and woke up and looked at myself and said, "What can I do right now?" Now I'm in the moment. I'm me, I'm with my hand, I'm going backwards and I'm going forwards. Presence is absolute key. Another thing is just smile. Like honestly, mate, the power... Look at the research. The power of a smile is just insane. And... Okay, sometimes we have to cry, but a lot of the times after crying, we start to smile. Look at people that cry. When we get them out of it, how do we get them out of crying?We tell them jokes, we make light. And then people start crying and laughing. It's really, really powerful. So I think they're, they're probably choice, presence, and fun or smile are probably my three ... And they always kind of have been, mate, you know? I think I just haven't really ... Like, Holly gets upset with me sometimes. She goes, "Are you excited about going on holiday tomorrow?"

Chris Williamson 48:33 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 48:34 Like, yeah, I'm excited but, holy shit, I've still got 12 hours of today to live and epic shit could happen right now. You know what I mean? And I'm like, "Mate, I'm excited for today. I'm excited to sit here with you. I was excited to wake up. I'm excited to go to the next meeting that I've got. I'm excited that tonight ... You know, I'm excited for all these things, but right now I'm not thinking about tonight."

Chris Williamson 49:01 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 49:01 I have to be here, and it's fun, you know? And, and I think, I think a lot of the time this is because we're not fully happy in what we're doing. And we're having, you know ... I mean, mate, in a nice way, I, I get asked to do different things with different people and most of the time I, you know, I can't say yes to everything. Why did I suddenly say yes to you? Because I just felt it was right. And then when you say yes, you commit 100% and we're all in and we're here and we're gonna make this the best hour. And I wouldn't give a shit if I'd have turned up in ... Like, luckily I checked out your podcast. Listened, listened to the one with, um, Seth.

Chris Williamson 49:39 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 49:39 He's one of my heroes, you know, and I'm like, "This guy is gonna be cool." But even if I ... I've got an hour of my life here no matter if you're a good dude or not. I control if I want to, and I have to have the confidence to control it. I'm gonna have a good time in this hour if you're an absolute douchebag, or if you're, you're turning out to be a nice guy, mate, so it's all good.

Chris Williamson 49:59 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 49:59 But you know what I mean. We control it and people are not taking the ownership 'cause people are going to dinner with fuckwits they don't like. They're hanging out with people that don't make their lives better and they only make it worse, because that's what society says. It goes back to what you said, and I know we- we're sort of wrapping around here, but it's totally true. We're going out and hanging out with people that we don't actually even like.

Chris Williamson 50:23 One of the things I've been thinking a lot about this year is the reason that people go and do big things. I say that as someone who's just taken a trip out to Dubai and is on the 25th floor of Dubai Marina.

Marcus Smith 50:34 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 50:35 Um, but I think one of the reasons that people do big, impressive events, they book a trip away to somewhere that's grand, they decide to buy a new car, they do something epic, it's because it's very hard not to be present when you have that much stimulus.

Marcus Smith 50:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 50:52 And one of the goals that everybody should have is to try and find that level of presence without that level of stimulus. Some-

Marcus Smith 50:59 Very hard though, right?

Chris Williamson 51:00 Oh, absolutely.

Marcus Smith 51:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:01 Like, if you're taking the same route to work that you've taken a thousand times before-

Marcus Smith 51:06 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:06 ... what's the reason for you to be present? You know that tree, you know that, like, uh, Ford Mondeo with the dent in the side of it.

Marcus Smith 51:13 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 51:13 You know that, like, guy with that dog.

Marcus Smith 51:15 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:15 Like, you know all of this stuff. And Sam Harris has this beautiful quote where he says that, "What most of life is, is giving our minds a reason to be here in the present moment."

Marcus Smith 51:27 Mm.

Chris Williamson 51:28 That's what we should be aiming to do in life.

Marcus Smith 51:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:30 Giving ourself a good enough reason to be here in the present moment.

Marcus Smith 51:34 I like it.

Chris Williamson 51:34 Now, you could do that by jumping out of a plane.

Marcus Smith 51:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:39 That's one of the attractions, I think, of extreme sports, also probably one of the attractions of people that are into bondage.

Marcus Smith 51:45 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:45 There's this famous dominatrix who says, "Nothing captures attention like a whip."

Marcus Smith 51:50 (laughs) That's true.

Chris Williamson 51:50 And you think, like, if, if you wanna get someone's attention, slap them.

Marcus Smith 51:53 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:53 For one or two seconds after that you're thinking of nothing else.

Marcus Smith 51:57 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:57 I'm sure that as you ... The, the, the m- moment in between hitting the truck and hitting the wall at 54 kilometers an hour-

Marcus Smith 52:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:05 ... I'm sure that that dilated out to feel like an eternity. And you can delve back into that so quickly-

Marcus Smith 52:11 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:11 ... because it's such an extreme event.

Marcus Smith 52:12 Yes, yes.

Chris Williamson 52:13 But the goal is to try and find that level of presence in everyday life. And it's, again, the armchair philosophizing can go on for forever.

Marcus Smith 52:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:19 But the point is that there are things in the present moment we can find that make us feel happy, that make us feel fulfilled, that make us feel connected with other people. And the more that we're masking over that with shit friends-

Marcus Smith 52:32 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:32 ... with nights out we don't even enjoy, with hobbies that haven't been relevant for five years-

Marcus Smith 52:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:38 ... because if we leave them we're not gonna have the same support structure.

Marcus Smith 52:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:41 Um, and it's one of the advantages conversely, to something that maybe sounded like a weakness earlier where you were like, "Well, you know, I, I struggle necessarily to connect with as many people as you might think."

Marcus Smith 52:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:52 The advantage of that is it makes you a lot more agile and flexible to do just what you want-

Marcus Smith 52:57 Yes.

Chris Williamson 52:57 ... without the influence of other people.

Marcus Smith 52:59 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:59 Um, so again, it's, it's interesting how it all maps on.

Marcus Smith 53:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:02 I want you to talk about self-doubt.

Marcus Smith 53:05 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:05 You don't sound like the sort of person that has doubts. When they come up, how do you deal with them?

Marcus Smith 53:10 I think self-doubt is a product of thoughts and behaviors. So why are you getting self-doubt? Because you think that you can't do something. So thought, behavior is the doing something. Why are we getting that? Why are we getting in that situation? Is it because something that's happened in our past, or is it because of something actually real? And (sighs) what example can we use but f- I don't really have one off my head, but the point is, is that ... Okay, you're going into interview and we've heard people go into int- Like, how many people go into an interview and they're like, "I'm ready for this. I'm gonna absolutely fucking smash this and I'm probably gonna get this job." (laughs)

Chris Williamson 53:58 (laughs) Al- almost no one.

Marcus Smith 53:58 No one. "How are you before your interview?" "Yeah, I'm a bit nervous. Um, well, I've applied for the job and, and, and the job is to drive a tractor, and I've only driven a, a scooter before."Okay. Well, that, so that is, we don't have the behavior to get that, so self-doubt comes in. So sometimes it's, it's real because we're, we're signing up for something that the task we don't have the skill set for, but we don't have the skill set for it yet. When I started ultra-running, I didn't have the skill set for ultra-running. The most I'd run was like marathons. But I wanted to develop that skill set and I knew I could develop that skill set over time and I knew it was a learning experience. At the start, was there self-doubt? I don't think so, mate. I've never suffered really from self-doubt because I think I've always had confidence because probably 'cause of the way that I was brought up. I understand that a lot of people were brought up different from how I was brought up and a lot of people have been told no a number of times, and that brings in self-doubt. If we go back to what's important here is how can we eliminate self-doubt is by training it. We have to put in things that if you want to drive the truck and you can only drive a scooter, then start upgrading your skill set, and then your doubt and your confidence is gonna come. And there's certain... It's like when we get people in that wanna lose weight. There's certain people that wanna go cold turkey and they're happy to, you know, we can drop five kilos off you in a month, and there's certain people that, "Okay, I'm not just willing to give up that quite yet." No worries. And that's fine. We can give up dairy, we can remove sugar, we can remove soft drinks, but you can keep your chocolate. And this is what people don't understand when it comes to health, weight loss, nutrition, is that you don't have to go cold turkey. You don't have to today drive a scooter and tomorrow go for truck driving lessons. You can go from a scooter to a car to a this, to a that, or to the other. There's different routes we can go based on what's gonna make you feel comfortably uncomfortable. So it's still gonna push you out of the comfort zone. Do I get... Do I sign up for things? Do I commit to things and sometimes wonder if I can achieve it? Yes. Absolutely, mate. Again, I, I don't think that's... I would lie if I said no, because then what's the point in signing up to things? Does 300K from the top of Jebel Jais to my gym, do I think, "Fuck, there's a chance that I could fail at this"? Yeah, there's a legitimate chance. But I'm gonna do everything that I can. The, the first 10K is literally 20% downhill. There's no path. (laughs) It's carnage, mate. And the time that we're gonna start to the time that we wanna finish, it's gonna be pitch black. There's absolute real chance that within the first 100 meters I can trip over a rock, fall, break my leg, and the whole thing's over. And everything that I've told you that I'm gonna do it on the show, that I'm gonna tell all the other media, that I've trained, that I've woken up early, that I've left my wife on her, her own, I've sacrificed my business, time on my business, I've sacrificed time with relationships, is all gone in 100 meters.

Marcus Smith 57:20 But when I was coming here this morning, I could have got stuck in the lift, but I didn't think about that. So we kind of, why would we, we control... I got in the lift, I pressed the button, I, I'm done. If the lift breaks when I'm on the 24th or 25 floors, that's it. I've done all of the training. I've got all of my equipment right. I set off at the time, I go on the pace, I go on the track, and then I keep going. Why would I worry about it? We're worrying about things that we can't control. Like, this is very stoic at the same time, mate. Very, very stoic. You know? And the more... It's, it's, it's funny because three or four years ago I started sort of reading more about stoicisms- stoicism and, and it sort of really started to resonate with me in a, you know, Daily Stoic podcast as well. And then, you know, Ross Edgley's, uh, Stoic Sports Science. I'm like, "Far out. This is like..." It all just stuff that... But is it, is it the stoicism or is that just a way of human behavior that they found, that they wrote about that we find about being present? You know? Focusing on what you can control and putting all of your energy into what you can control will remove self-doubt. You're only gonna doubt stuff if you're not confident in the plan and the decision-making process. I make bad decisions, mate. (laughs) I've made a load of bad decisions. But we made decisions in that time based on a decision-making process. Have I since tweaked that decision-making process based around certain situations? Absolutely. I think that's learning. And mate, I'm, I'm turning 42 next month. I'm still super young. I'm still trying to figure shit out and whether my shit really works or not. But at the same time, I don't think... I think self-doubt comes from issues that we, we're not addressing in the correct way. And why are we not, mate? 'Cause we come, everything we've spoken about, all these different angles that we've kind of gone through on this show, we kinda come to the same thing, that a lot of this could be based on subconscious behavior from our past that sometimes is really hard to address. The more I learn about motivation, I work with people in performance in really tough situations... Tonight I'm gonna take a guy to the middle of the desert at 6:00 PM and he's gonna run for 24 hours non-stop.

Chris Williamson 59:48 Wow.

Marcus Smith 59:50 And he's gonna learn shit that he's never learned before. He's gonna have moments that parts of his childhood, and behavior, and with his relationship with his wife, with his kids, with his parents, is gonna start to come and fuck with his mind. It's gonna be an insane experience for him. But he's gonna bring that behavior, maybe, not definitely, right up here and get it out.... it's really hard, mate. And that's why people are unable to achieve great things a lot of the time. That's why we have self-doubt, confidence. We have a victim mindset 'cause we've not dealt with things in the right way. And it's tragic.

Chris Williamson 1:00:29 You mentioned your buddy who's about to run 24 hours. You've done a variety of different endurance events as well.

Marcus Smith 1:00:37 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:00:37 Is there a particular point that you could identify as the most discomfort you've been in during them?

Marcus Smith 1:00:43 (laughs) Every event's different, mate. Um, this time last year, I was running around a 400-meter track. I did that for 24 hours and it was about... It's quite a weird story, this one, mate. Uh, but there's humor to it and then there's some quite serious part. It was about 11:00 AM. I started at 3:00 PM. It was 11:00 AM the next day. It was getting hot. When heat comes, the gut microbiome changes. I was incredibly fortunate that I had a lot of people that were running with me the whole time around the track. I think I only did, like, two laps on my own. So, and some of these people, I didn't really know them very well, so which I shouldn't have done. And this is so, like, not like me, but I didn't feel that it was right to fart in front of them.

Chris Williamson 1:01:34 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:01:35 So, mate, literally, I'm fucking... I'm, I'm, I'm 18 hours round the track and when you're doing physical activity and you're taking on different foods and caffeine gels, and it's not healthy, mate. Your guts are in a mess and I'm not able to fart. And I got to a point where, where Tom, Tom Walker, who, who works with me and, and, and helps me on a lot of these things, he's a, he's a very intelligent sports scientist, so when we wanna get geeky, we go into stuff, he was running with me and I said to him, I said, "Mate, you've gotta get rid of these people." He's like, "Mate, people have come for you."

Chris Williamson 1:02:12 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:02:12 And I'm like, "Well, mate, I'm literally about to shit myself."

Chris Williamson 1:02:17 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:02:19 So he says to the people, he says, "Can you give him 20 meters?"

Chris Williamson 1:02:23 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:02:23 And, "He just needs a bit of space." And honestly, mate, there are some fantastic human beings on the planet, in my life, and, and I am genuinely grateful. They all just said yes.

Chris Williamson 1:02:36 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:02:36 And they just backed off and I'm literally just farting like a train wreck.

Chris Williamson 1:02:39 But they're running downstream of you, mate.

Marcus Smith 1:02:41 They're running... Yeah, it was a disaster. (laughs) You could clearly smell it, like.

Chris Williamson 1:02:44 Oh, come on. You should've said, "Go ahead of me 20 meters."

Marcus Smith 1:02:47 (laughs) And I'm obviously incredibly fatigued. I'd done about 180, 100, s- about 180K, let's say. And this pain in my gut was getting worse when I was farting and I said to Tom, I said, "Mate, this is, this is not really helping." And it was getting hot as well. It was about 30 degrees. We, we had everything. It was quite, it was quite good for Dubai. I mean, it rained, it was cold. Like, at one point, I was running in a long sleeve and, and then it was getting hot towards midday. And I said to him, I said, "Mate, I need to go. We need to go to the toilet." And he was like, "Well, of course we can go to the toilet." But I'd got in this sort of tunnel vision that I just had to keep running. And, anyway, I'd gone to the toilet and literally I went in the toilet, mate, and I've got my sunglasses and my cap on, no shirt, and I'd dropped my shorts and I'm sat on the toilet and everything's come out and I'm in this incredible amount of pain. My legs are fucked, like completely. Running on a track is just, it's just the same motion over and over (claps hands) . And I'm shitting myself. And I look around and I see the butt hose, which is very common here, the, the butt hose. You don't have it much in the UK. I was just like, "Fuck." And I start having a shower.

Chris Williamson 1:04:09 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:04:09 I'm like, "My legs are killing." And I'm like... I didn't know where I was. I was just in this, I was just in this insane state of pain, of just pure joy, of everything because I knew I was getting better, I was getting cooler and, and Tom knocked on the door, I don't know if it was three minutes later or five minutes later, he goes, "You okay in there, mate?"

Chris Williamson 1:04:39 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:04:40 I was like, "Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah." I, I... And then I realized I was there to run. And I put the butt hose down and I pulled up my shorts. I'm dripping wet through, water everywhere. I don't even know if my arse was clean and-

Chris Williamson 1:04:54 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:04:54 And I just got up and I just went out to the track and I carried on running incredibly slow for the last two or three hours. Why do I share that, mate, is because this is an incredible experience on so many different levels. There's so many different moving parts. There's not wanting to let people down. There's, "Am I embarrassed? Why do I care?" There's the pain that I'm going through. Then there's just getting into this cubicle and the picture as you've all just thought through, some of you are a bit more scarred than others-

Chris Williamson 1:05:27 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:05:27 ... of this man laying back on a toilet, like half on... Almost like you'd find someone drunk in a nightclub or something, dare I say it.

Chris Williamson 1:05:36 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:05:36 Just showering with a butt hose. And it's literally the... one of the most amazing moments of my life because everything is coming together. I'm, I'm so fucking alive right now. And that's what these events do, mate. They, they cause you to go into such a, a, an unusual situation. Hallucinations, pain, call it what you will, mate, and then you just... And I've had it... You're in the Sahara and I'll, I'd just walk around a corner, or it feels like a corner, there's really no corners in the Sahara, and you just look up and you're like, "Fuck, I'm a human and this is Earth."And I'm running across this fucking Sahara Desert and it's amazing. It's like you're reborn, mate. And it... I was in Kenya last year, in hell, literally in hell, mate. I've got chafed and there's a picture of me. I... This race was, uh, self-supported, so I'm carrying everything and it's awful and it's hot. And then I find a picture on my GoPro, and I'm next to a fucking giraffe. I'm like, "Is this real?" Like, if I was fighting, which I was fighting the pain, but then you're just reborn, just through a giraffe. And this is one of the, the, the, the things that we haven't touched on, which I just think is super important. The power of the planet, of nature, of animals, of plants, of sunrises, of the circadian rhythm, is absolutely incredible. It's hard for me to explain pain and suffering because I think it's different for everyone and I can... We could do a whole hour about the pain I've been in, but it's irrelevant. I chose to be there. But the lessons from it and the amazing things that ultra's given me, that human beings has given me, that allow me to be present, that allow me to live, I really think is what contributes to wanting to wake up early every single morning before my alarm some days. Some days on my alarm, mate. Some days I'm like, "What the fuck?"

Chris Williamson 1:07:50 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:07:50 You know? I'm the same as everyone. (laughs) Like, bang, and just get up and live and overcome those tough things of, you know, "I don't feel 100% today." And that's why I do this stuff, because those situations that I've been in, and we've all been in situations, but I chose to be there and I've unpicked those situations and I've thought about... The track one is really... I don't think I fully understood it yet. It's only a year on and, you know, there's so many moving parts. There's what Tom did, there was the time in the cubicle, there's the people, there's so many different things going a- along. And that's what's amazing, mate. I can literally sit and look at a picture that's on my camera roll from one of the ultras that I've done and I'll look at it like it's the first time I've looked at it. And these are free tools to us. We're always looking and, and... But it's hard because I have to relive those situations, and that's tough because... if you remember it for the pain. But a lot of the time, I try and remember it for what it's brought me and the great tools it's brought me to deal with life. To deal... I have 25 people working for me, I have relationships, I have parents that I have to deal with, that are 75 and want to travel during COVID. You know what I mean? (laughs) And there's these different things that you can, you can take from it. And one of the most beautiful things and the thing that I'm... I'm not one of these massive #grateful, thankful, gratitude people, but I do have an incredible amount of, of gratitude. And I think I don't need to show it off on, on Instagram with people, but through having these opportunities to do these challenges, I'm able to... The guy that's gonna... We've r- we've got a few guys running long tonight. I'm able to share that with him and then watch him and his relationships and his life grow, and that is one of the most incredible things. I've got somehow this gift that I can help someone do something better. I'm not Tony Robbins, I can't change 1,000 people at once, but I can take him and I can... He's gonna be in hell. He's gonna address some things, and tomorrow night at 6:00 PM when he stops running and he has a cold beer, he's gonna be reborn, mate. And it's literally... there's a, there's a picture and it's one of my... It's my favorite picture of 2019. I can't say it's my favorite picture of the decade, but it's one of my (laughs) favorite pictures of 2019, where at the end of my 24-hour run, I was hugging Holly. And one of my mates sent me a message. I don't know if he wrote on the post or he sent me a message. He goes, "In this situation you feel like death, but in the same moment you feel reborn. Quite the conundrum." I'm like, "Fuck, this is, this is really it." Like, mate, and you can see, like, I've... I'm emotional about it because that's really it. You've been in such a tough place, but now you're just so fucking alive and it's just... How do we get that more often?

Chris Williamson 1:11:01 I've never wanted to do endurance stuff and the last couple of days, last couple of weeks, I've been listening a lot to Brian Keane-

Marcus Smith 1:11:07 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:11:07 ... and I've got a show in a few weeks. I've been listening to yourself. Tom Otten is gonna come-

Marcus Smith 1:11:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:11:12 He's gonna be sat where you are in a couple of hours' time.

Marcus Smith 1:11:15 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:11:15 And I don't think I've ever heard people talk about endurance events in this sort of a way.

Marcus Smith 1:11:23 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:11:24 And it just... I... If there was ever a front end of the funnel man-

Marcus Smith 1:11:29 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:11:29 ... for wanting to start doing dist- I've never even wanted to run a half marathon.

Marcus Smith 1:11:32 No.

Chris Williamson 1:11:33 But I just think, wow, what an opportunity for growth. You know?

Marcus Smith 1:11:37 I released a podcast today called It's Not About Running. And honestly, mate, I was... I didn't know what show I was gonna put out this week, I didn't have any guests lined up and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I went through a lot of my old articles and I wrote an article in 2018 or 2019 called It's Not About Running, and I read it and I was like, "You know what? That's actually a really good article." (laughs) Like pat on the back sort of thing.

Chris Williamson 1:12:05 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:12:05 And I was like, "You know what? I can share this with people and I can put it into a podcast." Because you said it there, "I've never run a half or..." It's not about the running, mate. I haven't talked to you about running. We've talked about life.And I don't think... I definitely didn't realize the power of ultra endurance until I got knee-deep in it, mate. I never thought... How did it start, is what a lot of people ask me. And, and honestly, mate, a lady walked into my gym one day and said, "I need your help." She said, "I'm going to run this ultra marathon," and I was like, "I've never done one." She goes, "No, I just want you to help me on my strength and nutrition." I said, "I could do that." I said, "Would you mind if I learn?" I said, "Because I find it difficult to tell someone to do something that they haven't done." And that's what started it in 2009, and it's incredible, mate. A lot of people... I'm so grateful (laughs) , again, that you spent the time and you've understood a little bit, because a lot of people, anything over their threshold, if it's 10K, 5K or 21K, it's all just running. But it's not, it's life, it's something that's so unique, mate, and it's something that's so innate, it's what we're designed to do. Without trying to sell it, en- uh, endurance, it's actually what we're decide- designed to do. Look back to our ancestors. They worked here, they got water here, 10 miles away. We went by walking or running. It's only in the last 50 years that we don't move in the way that we're supposed to move, and that's led to all the problems that we've got now. It's so natural for us. Be a hippie about it, it's what we're supposed to do.

Chris Williamson 1:13:48 Man, uh, you might not be trying to advertise long distance stuff-

Marcus Smith 1:13:52 (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 1:13:52 ... but, uh, it's, it's gassed me up and I'm sure it's really sort of invigorated a lot of people as well. And if ever there was a year to do it, like when your gyms have shut down, the number of people that I think will have taken up distance running-

Marcus Smith 1:14:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:14:02 ... and hopefully they'll have taken some of the lessons that you've had today from their own experience as well. So man, I- I've adored today.

Marcus Smith 1:14:08 (laughs) Thank you.

Chris Williamson 1:14:08 You've got to get on, um, and I've got... I need to have another coffee, I don't know what to do after this, you know?

Marcus Smith 1:14:14 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:14:15 I don't know whether I- I don't know whether I want to cry, whether I want to throw myself off the-

Marcus Smith 1:14:19 Oh, mate, sorry. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:14:19 ... off the roof into the pool, whether I need a coffee, whether I need a sleep, I need something. Um-

Marcus Smith 1:14:23 Just try and keep it real, mate. I appreciate you, you, you chatting to me, mate. Honestly, really good questions. And as I said at the start, I try and talk a lot because I try and share with people and get out as much as I can, because it's... I don't, I don't have all the answers, mate. I'm... I just have these experiences and I just hope that other people will try and find experiences. Are we looking for answers? I don't know, but...

Chris Williamson 1:14:48 Here's one thing that (laughs) might be a nice part in- insight for you. There's only a few people on the planet that have done the things that you've done.

Marcus Smith 1:14:54 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:14:55 Bizarrely, there's a duty of those people to teach everyone else about their insights.

Marcus Smith 1:15:00 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:15:01 We go to the moon, we collect samples, we come back home, and people who are experienced analyze those samples.

Marcus Smith 1:15:08 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:15:09 People who decide to push frontiers in other areas, whether that be with meditation, whether that be with physical training, whether that be with reading and compiling wisdom, whatever, it's their job.

Marcus Smith 1:15:22 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:15:22 It's their duty.

Marcus Smith 1:15:23 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:15:23 They are the person who knows it, they are the people who've experienced it.

Marcus Smith 1:15:27 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 1:15:28 It's their duty to then teach the rest of us, because that's how we move forward, right?

Marcus Smith 1:15:31 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:15:31 And I think that very virtuously, that's what you're spending your time doing as well with these events. So, people will want to check out more about you, where, where should they go?

Marcus Smith 1:15:40 The easiest thing is Instagram, mate, mjdsmith. Hit me up on there. I reply to everyone, I'm not a rude prick. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:15:49 (laughs)

Marcus Smith 1:15:49 Dig for the Insta slots. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 1:15:52 (laughs) Brother, thank you so much for your time, it's been amazing.

Marcus Smith 1:15:54 Thank you. Hey, appreciate it. That was awesome.

Chris Williamson 1:15:57 Oh. Oh. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Love it.