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Build An Unbreakable Mindset - Marcus Smith | Modern Wisdom Podcast 250

Marcus Smith is an ultra endurance athlete and gym owner. From breaking his body in a cycling accident to running 30 marathons in 30 days, Marcus embodies an Ultra Mindset, the man is an animal Expect to learn the framework Marcus uses to overcome any obstacle, how it feels to hit a wall at 54km/h, what it's like to run for 24 hours straight, why your parents were right to tell you to relax, how to maintain motivation when life gets hard and much more... Sponsor: Get 20% discount on the best coffee in Britain with Uncommon Coffee’s entire range at http://uncommoncoffee.co.uk/ (use code MW20) Extra Stuff: Follow Marcus on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mjd_smith Check out Innerfight - https://www.innerfight.com Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #endurance #ultramarathon #mindset - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Marcus SmithguestChris Williamsonhost
Nov 26, 20201h 16mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:53

    Intro

    1. MS

      Running marathons, going to work, building relationships, you choose. No one's forcing you. And we need to get comfortable with that. We need to embrace that. We need to acknowledge that. Everyone's like, "I have to go to work." No, you don't. You have to go to work in a number of scenarios because at the end of the month, you get what's called a paycheck, which then gets you the (censored) car that you like.

    2. CW

      (laughs)

    3. MS

      And that car is feeding into your insecurities. It's giving you temporary happiness. And it's giving you temporary happiness because it's, it's numbing a block that you're not willing to address, which could come from a previous subconscious behavior. You don't have to go to work tomorrow. Nobody has to go to work tomorrow. You choose to. So when I'm in trouble, I, I chose to be here.

    4. CW

      Ladies

  2. 0:53 – 1:23

    Welcome

    1. CW

      and gentlemen, welcome back. I am joined by the one and only Marcus Smith. How are you, brother?

    2. MS

      Thank you for having me back. Awesome. How, how could I not be good right here, right now?

    3. CW

      It's not a bad backdrop, is it?

    4. MS

      Mate, this is ... I don't know if this classes as a working holiday for you, but, uh, those ... Yeah. If you're watching... Anyway. (laughs)

    5. CW

      Yeah, exactly. Tune in on YouTube. We're on the 25th floor of Dubai Marina-

    6. MS

      (laughs) .

    7. CW

      ... overlooking a backdrop that, yeah, it could be like. It's epic.

    8. MS

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      It's absolutely epic.

    10. MS

      It's pretty good, mate.

    11. CW

      Joe, Joe Rogan, never heard of him. Um.

  3. 1:23 – 3:45

    Whats Next

    1. CW

    2. MS

      (laughs)

    3. CW

      So I've been doing my research a lot since I've been out here, knowing I was gonna record with you, and you just continually do mad shit.

    4. MS

      (laughs)

    5. CW

      You're a closet psychopath. What are you working on at the moment? What's next?

    6. MS

      (laughs) Yeah. I- i- ... Interesting, 'cause sometimes we start, "Where did this all start?" You've gone straight into what's next, which I quite like because next is a ... We're, we're actually gonna run, mate. And this is quite interesting because obviously this year has been mental for absolutely everyone, and we've seen a lot of people naturally get frustrated that events are canceled, travel's canceled, and a lot of people have literally just thrown their hands up in the air like this and done nothing, put on weight, motivation's gone down, and, and it's terrible on a number of levels. We were like, "Well, we know we're not gonna travel this year," and this year I would've run probably about three ultras all ar- in different countries around the world. And so what we did is we looked at the map of the UAE, and I think this is actually the first time I've said this to ... I classify it as the media, mate. To the media. (laughs) Um, we looked at the map of the UAE and I was like, "Okay, what's the challenging parts of the UAE?" And lots of people think Dubai, the UAE, is what we see around us now, which is the marina, it's very beautiful. But there's actually a high point of the UAE which is just about 2,000 meters in the mountains, and there's a mountain range that divides the east coast and the west coast called the Hajar Mountains. And I thought to myself, it'd be really interesting if we could sort of traverse that mountain range and then take a, take a turn inland and end up at my gym. And I sorta said ... And this is how (laughs) these things start, mate. Like, you know, there's a couple of mates and we'll, we'll get on Google Maps and we'll just draw on our phones and just send different things to each other. It's almost like a, a gamble or a guessing game. How far is it? And one of the boys goes, "Oh, I think that's about 250." I said, "Yeah, I think it's a bit longer. I think it's about 300." Anyway, so we got this idea and then ... And this is honestly, mate, how it starts, is then one of the lads goes, well, the boy I was sending it to, Rob, he goes, "When are we doing it?" And so this is how these challenges kinda start a lot of the time, mate. And you know, it's

  4. 3:45 – 13:10

    Endurance Events

    1. MS

      ... (laughs)

    2. CW

      Some people, it's like the way that you guys go on about endurance events-

    3. MS

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... is how normal people talk about going out for dinner.

    5. MS

      Yeah, kind of. Yeah. (laughs)

    6. CW

      "So, have you heard about that new place? Yeah, does, does good sushi."

    7. MS

      (laughs)

    8. CW

      "The seafood's really nice." You guys look on Google Maps, like the, the, the TripAdvisor of suffering.

    9. MS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    10. CW

      And you're like, "Yeah, that one looks like it could really fuck us up. Let's do that."

    11. MS

      Exa- ... Yeah. Let's do that. And that's, that's kinda what it was. I mean, like, we've gotta finish the year strong. We've gotta make it count and, and we've got to... We have a, a ... I consider that we have an incredible responsibility to the people. It's something I take quite seriously, to, to set an example. People need to come into an environment and have people that they look up to that are doing good things, and I take that very, very seriously and very, very personally as well, that I should always be raising the bar for myself and for other people. It, it is quite selfish in a way, that I want to explore my potential, but in doing so, I wanna let ... Make people think, "Actually, what is, what's my potential?" And we're all climbing a different Everest, if, if you want a clichéd way of looking at it. So if someone can look and go, "Well, these idiots are gonna do this, then I can do this." So yeah, mate, to answer the, the question, we're gonna run 300 kilometers. It is 300 kilometers from the highest point of the UAE. It's 200 kilometers through the Hajar mountain range, which is about 6,000 meters of elevation, and then we're gonna take a hard right turn, and then the last 100 kilometers is across desert, and that will take us to, to, to my gym, to Innafight. And the initial plan ... This is kind of where-

    12. CW

      (laughs)

    13. MS

      ... the whole year has just been amazing for timelines and, and when we talk about goals, you know, if anyone that uses the SMART principle, it has to be time related, (laughs) you know? And I was training a few weeks ago and I was, I was descending and, and, and my knee sort of ... I came across a problem with my knee, let- let's put it that way, like a sharp knife going through my knee. And so now the date that we were gonna complete that challenge is obviously not realistic anymore. It doesn't work. And I sat down with Rob and, and ... Actually, I think we did it over WhatsApp, and I said, "Listen, mate-"... if you want to continue the challenge without me, I'm there. I'll ride a bike next to you. I'll drive a car as much as I can next to you. And he's like, "Mate, time's not a problem. We'll wait and we'll do it as soon as you're ready." So, hopefully by the end of the year, mate, we'll be the first piece- p- people to... which is quite important for certain (laughs) reasons. We'll be the first people to sort of transcend the, the, the Ha Giang Mountain Range, 300 kilometers, and hopefully we'll get it done in just over two days. So-

    14. CW

      Really?

    15. MS

      Yeah.

    16. CW

      So, and what will you do? Will you aim to have a little rest stop? Have you planned that end as well?

    17. MS

      Yeah, yeah. So, the way that we look at it is that we, we go for about six hours and we try and complete about a marathon every six hours, and then we would rest and feed, which would take anywhere 90 minutes up to two hours. We also want... we also... it's important to understand that all those... these races and these challenges are races. You need to respect your, your body and your mind, and we always try and buffer on the edge. If we push, like, we could go 24 hours straight. We've both done more than that before, but then we might fall off the end. So, we're, we're looking at sort of six on, two off, and we'd get through it... we think we'd get through it in just over two days. So, I mean, it's easy to say you've got those two hours when you sleep but, mate, with adrenaline and... l- I've been in races before and it's like, okay, it's rest time now and you try and lay down and your heart's just going boom, boom, boom.

    18. CW

      I was gonna say, what does that feel like? Obviously, you know that you have this small window in which to do the recovery-

    19. MS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    20. CW

      ... and you're there and you can't get yourself... y- everyone that's listening knows what it's like-

    21. MS

      Yeah.

    22. CW

      ... to try and get to sleep. I need to be up early tomorrow. The difference is you need to be up and start running.

    23. MS

      Yeah. It's... mate, it's savage, and it's a... it's... i- it's a mindset thing though as well. Like, there's two things going on. There's the actual chemical reactions in your body, what your dopamine's doing, your melatonin's all over the place, your cortisol's through the roof. Like, that's, that's real. So, it's not like I can't sleep. Like, you can't sleep, so you gotta sort of deal with that. But you also... it's almost like... how can I frame this? If you're f- if you're scared of flying and you've got a flight the next day, you don't sleep. I know... I- I'm sure you don't sleep. Or if you're scared of anything that's coming up. It's the same thing, because after six hours, six hours in we'll have run 40 to 50K, we still have 250 kilometers to go. This part is a complete mindset. The physiological side, what's happening in your... i- in your brain neurologically, you... that is normal. But the mindset of how to control, be it anxiety and to stay cool, that's something you can actually train, mate. And from my first race 'til now, now it's, it's not that difficult. Like, I've done stuff... I trained a little bit for, for what they call Backyard Ultra, which is 6.7Ks on the hour, every hour, for, for as long as you can go. And I trained that one night on my own out here in the desert for 12 hours, and the first two hours was pretty shit because I'd... I, I didn't know how to behave. But after that, mate, I'd come in at about 40 to 45 minutes, quickly drink something, eat something, and then just get into... literally, mate, into a Savasana position from yoga and just breathe. Alarm would go off at two minutes to the hour, shoes were already on, stand up, drink some water, and go. And I trained that for 10 hours. So, now, coming into that relaxed state actually becomes easier. And I think if, if people can take anything from, from what I've learned is we have to train these things. Like, they don't just happen. You have to... l- I had 12 hours that night training it. A lot of people want to, want to be able to do stuff, be it related to mental resilience, be it number of different areas of life, and they're not willing to spend that time in, like, experimentation, if you wanna say. And, and, and with that, a little bit of discomfort as well, you know? So-

    24. CW

      I've been thinking a lot this year about mental masturbation.

    25. MS

      Yeah (laughs) .

    26. CW

      Everybody... everyone this year has had far too much time to think and far too little time to do.

    27. MS

      Yes.

    28. CW

      And a lot of that has been outside of our control. Gyms have been closed.

    29. MS

      Yeah.

    30. CW

      So, if your gym's closed and you don't have weights at home, y- you're restricted. You're stuck to-

  5. 13:10 – 15:03

    The Crash

    1. CW

    2. MS

      Yeah. (laughs)

    3. CW

      Good for mustaches and good for podcasts, but terrible for- for partnerships. Um, a couple of years ago, you had a huge accident.

    4. MS

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      Broke a bunch of ribs, punctured a lung.

    6. MS

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      Ruptured- pulled your scapular off. And you said it was part of one of the best years of your life.

    8. MS

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      How- how does that work?

    10. MS

      (laughs)

    11. CW

      How does that fit in?

    12. MS

      Yeah, mate, it's interesting. Three... I guess, three thing, three big things happened in 2018 that are... I believe that moments in our life obviously define us. And when I look back at 2018, three really big things happened, maybe four, which if you kick it off on the 9th of February, and- and this is totally legit, you can't change this. Go back to my Instagram, mjdsmith, 9th of February, I posted a quote that said, "Everything happens for a reason." 10th of February at about quarter to 8:00 in the morning, I nearly lose my life. (laughs) Wild.

    13. CW

      (laughs)

    14. MS

      Three days in intensive care, five days in hospital, injuries that you just said. And when I was in that hospital bed, I thought to myself, "If you can't ride a bike, what can you do?" And the answer was run. And I- I have quite a decent background, I've run a lot, in running. And I was like, "Well, I'll run." And I read Dean Karnazes book, 50 Marathons in 50 States in 50 Days, in, I think it was May or June time. And then I made a decision that, in line with Dubai Fitness Challenge of 2018, which is a 30-day fitness challenge here in Dubai, I'd run 30 marathons in 30 days. And I was like, "What a better way to- to- to come back from it?" So I've crashed, and then I've proven that you can recover, and then about a week after I finished, on the 24th of November, I finished, and on the 5th of December was my 40th birthday. Like, how can that not be the best year of your life, you know?

  6. 15:03 – 17:32

    Perception

    1. MS

      You just-

    2. CW

      Well, I mean, the crash, the crash to most people would seem like something that would be a huge setback, and it would appear-

    3. MS

      But why though, mate?

    4. CW

      Well, because you've gone from someone who was capable, who had these plans for ultra bike races in a year-

    5. MS

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      ... across different countries, and that's now stopped.

    7. MS

      Yeah.

    8. CW

      And when we go from one world to another, often that's perceived as a challenge or, uh, a bad thing.

    9. MS

      So, but yeah-

    10. CW

      As- as a negative.

    11. MS

      ... and that's... I wanna... Like, the word you just used there is super important. It's perceived. And we're living a lot on perception, perceptions and thoughts that we create based on the opinions of others, a lot of the time. We've been told that those things are bad, and this relationship is always bad. I'm- I'm not in a good place. And mentally, we... Mate, I still have it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not- not bulletproof from it. The first few days after a- a buck on my knee, I was not in a good place, mate. And we know what goes with it, relationship. I'm not having a good time with my wife in those days, you know? At- at work, ah, it's just too much. We're not bu-... But this is because this, in my opinion, it's a subconscious behavior that we've been drilled into us around perception, 'cause we're told. Guys, shit happens. Things happen for a reason, and even when things happen, we can't change them because they've already happened. But perception says it sends us backwards. Come on, 2018, I learnt shit that I would have never learned. I had tough times, mate. Don't get me wrong. I fu-... Like, I was like, "Why is this happening to me?" You know? "I'm- I'm bulletproof." But then you look at it and you go, "This is the way it's supposed to be." And that's when we have to embrace this stuff. Otherwise, yeah, we see it as regret, we see it as setback, and we get asked this a lot, like, "What do you regret the most in your life?" Fuck off. Nothing.

    12. CW

      (laughs)

    13. MS

      Because if I regret, I'm holding onto these things, mate. So, it's easy to sit here and say that, and we're almost reading the porno where we should be having sex. (laughs)

    14. CW

      But you've been, you've- you've been there. This is you post-coitally. This is the pillow talk-

    15. MS

      Yeah. (laughs)

    16. CW

      ... from you, right? Like, you've done, you've done-

    17. MS

      I love it. (laughs) This is gonna go through the whole show. (laughs)

    18. CW

      Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's a common thread. Welcome to the porno podcast.

    19. MS

      Yeah. (laughs)

  7. 17:32 – 19:35

    Mental Resilience

    1. CW

      Um, uh, yeah, so a big part of that is the fact that you've been there and proven it.

    2. MS

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      And I think that that's the difference between hearing a motivational speaker and hearing someone who has been forged in battle-

    4. MS

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... talking about their experience. That's why it resonates with people so much more.

    6. MS

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. CW

      Um, so I just wanna go back just a little bit. You had this...... accident, you're laying there. I just want to go through kind of what's in your mind because hearing this-

    8. MS

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      ... and hearing you where you are now with this, these lessons that you've taken away, this mental resilience-

    10. MS

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      ... it's hard for people to believe that this guy could ever have a negative thought-

    12. MS

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. CW

      ... could ever feel like things are going badly.

    14. MS

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      Yeah, he just bounces off stuff like a, like a rubber ball.

    16. MS

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      So, what goes through your mind when you hit by a truck? What goes through your mind when you laid up in hospital and you don't know what your recovery's gonna be like?

    18. MS

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      Can we just talk about the mindset there?

    20. MS

      Yeah, mate, yeah. I, I ... And the example is really ... or, or the reality, it's not an example, it's what happened. So I wake up in, in ICU. And mate, ICU is pretty rough. Like, it's ... The ICU I was in was just curtains, not separate rooms, so literally (clears throat) the guy next to me is dying. Like He's, he's dying, mate. And I'm trying not to die.

    21. CW

      (laughs)

    22. MS

      Like, it's pretty fucked up.

    23. CW

      (laughs)

    24. MS

      So I'm laying in this bed and you've got... I've got oxygen going in through my nose and it's uncomfortable 'cause you've got these things up your nose. And they've just put a, they've just put a tube into my lungs to, to drain the blood off. And I've got a catheter in. And you're like, you've got different bits and then a machine up here that's just beeping your pulse. And I'm like, you know, "Can you turn it off?" They're like, "No." I'm like, "Why not?" And they, uh, uh, like, "Because then we won't know if you're dead or alive." And it's brutal, mate.

    25. CW

      (laughs)

    26. MS

      And, and you're drugged up, which is the only good thing because you need the, those drugs to take away the pain. And

  8. 19:35 – 24:53

    The Victim Mindset

    1. MS

      so you're on and off sleepy. And I remember waking up, mate, and I was, I, I was in a low point. It was awful. I was, I was really... I think to, the easiest way to explain it was I was, I was playing the victim mindset. I was like, "Why has this happened to me? What if it was different?" And I ... Mate, we'd ridden the route before and every time we'd ride this route, we'd stop at petrol station. There'll ... It'd be about an hour to the petrol station. Lads would have a coffee, bit of banter, and then we'd carry on the way. We pull into the petrol station on this day. Uh, "My round, lads. Who wants a coffee?" No one wants a coffee. I said, "Okay, no worries." We just get some water and we go. Obviously, mate, if we'd have had a coffee, the truck wouldn't have been there, it would've already gone and I wouldn't have been able to buy a latt-

    2. CW

      (laughs)

    3. MS

      That's it. If there's one, like what's the biggest learning?

    4. CW

      Always have coffee-

    5. MS

      Always have a fucking coffee. (laughs)

    6. CW

      (laughs)

    7. MS

      You know what I mean? And I'm there, mate, and I'm, I'm really just thinking all these thoughts and I'm like, "What if? Why me? I just wish it wasn't happening." And Holly was laid ... Uh, was sat at the side of my bed and I could see she could see some discomfort in my face, and she said, "What's wrong with you?" And I tried to s- ... I sort of started explaining, you know, "Why me?" And she looked at me, mate, and she says that I'm not emotional enough and I say that she's too emotional, but literally in this scenario-

    8. CW

      It flips.

    9. MS

      ... it was flipped 180 and she just looked straight at me and she said, "It happened." (laughs) Literally heartbroken, I'm like, "For fucks sake." (laughs)

    10. CW

      (laughs) The one time I wanted some fucking sympathy.

    11. MS

      The one time. (laughs)

    12. CW

      Come on.

    13. MS

      And she, she just sat there, mate. She didn't cry, she ... Nothing. And she said, "It happened." (laughs) And I ... It's like literally someone's just taken the wind out my sails. And I sorta just, I didn't react and I laid there. I was like, "She's fucking right." And then I went a little bit back to sleep with this thought. And I think it was that point where I just accepted. And acceptance is hard. You break a leg, to accept that you've broken your leg and you can't walk for a time. Your relationship breaks, to accept that you're gonna be on your own, you're gonna have to ... It's awful, mate. But we have to go through it. It's part of the healing process. And it's, it's what I call the Ultra Mindset, is that a lot of the time our first point is denial. "Didn't happen. This relationship's fine. No, it's not." Do you know what I mean? I couldn't kid myself, mate. I was laid diagonally across the bed, I had these tubes coming out for me, I could hardly breathe. I couldn't move my hand. Like d- ... I can't say I'm not here. So the first step is we have to admit that there's a problem. And her saying that got me out of that victim mindset. And it was funny because I sort of probably went back to sleep and then I woke up and I looked at her and I smiled. And she's like, "What's wrong with you?" I said, "I ... You're right." I said, "You know what I'm gonna do?" She's like, "What?" I said, "I'm gonna start training." (laughs) She's looking at me. She's ... I don't know if she wanted to cry, mate, if she was laughing or, or, or what was going on. And (laughs) I looked down at my body and I think they'd cut my cycling kit, which hurt my soul. (laughs)

    14. CW

      Your favorite cycling kit. (laughs)

    15. MS

      (laughs) And there cutting through it. I think I still had my cycling shorts on, but they'd cut all the bib bit off. And literally, mate, I'm laying like this and I put my hand on the table and I looked at this hand, my whole left side of my body's fucking broken. And I just went, I just said, "What can I do right now?" And honestly, mate, with everything I had, I just turned this hand like this. And I was so emotional, but I couldn't cry. I'm not, I'm not a very good crier, mate. (laughs)

    16. CW

      (laughs)

    17. MS

      Long story.... here. And then, I'm like, I think I'm fucking a dog with two dicks. I've gone, "I wonder if I can get it back."

    18. CW

      (laughs)

    19. MS

      (laughs) Do you know what I mean? (laughs)

    20. CW

      Yeah.

    21. MS

      And everything is reset. And I'd done it once, and then, of course, I'm like, "Okay, if I can do it once, I can do it 10 times." Literally, mate, and that took me about five minutes. And I don't know if physically I was drained, but mentally, emotionally, everything else in my body was completely drained. I was crying without tears because I knew that that was the point where I'd started my recovery. Because I knew admitting to Hollie and her being that cold with me and that honest with me that it happened, had let me get out of denial and admit the problem, and now I can start to recover.

  9. 24:53 – 27:44

    The Principles

    1. MS

    2. CW

      So, what are the principles that you've taken away from that? The radical acceptance of things that have happened-

    3. MS

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... understanding that you can't change the past?

    5. MS

      Yes. That's number one.

    6. CW

      Focusing on what you can do to improve your future?

    7. MS

      Yeah.

    8. CW

      What else?

    9. MS

      The, the... And I mean, and that's, that's the process w- that, that, that we go through. Admit that there's a problem. Then you sort of, you, you reject that that problem is gonna stop you from, from achieving what you wanna achieve in life. These things are gonna happen, mate. Right now, I can't run. That's fine.

    10. CW

      I snapped an Achilles three months ago.

    11. MS

      Same thing. You know? But look at the energy that you're putting into the podcast, for example. So, then we, we, we reject the fact that it's gonna stop us. Then, and this is the hardest thing, mate, just relax. We can't... You know, m- how many times when we were kids did our parents just send us to the room, "Calm down for 10 minutes." "Aah!" You're banging the door down, you're having a fit. "Just calm down for 10 minutes." So, the third point is we have to relax. And then the fourth point, the most important point, is what I did and how I explained it with my hand there, is what can I do right now to make this situation better? There is always something you can do. In some scenarios, if you and I are having an argument and we're just about to blow, sometimes what I can do right now to make this situation better for both of us is just to walk away from you. That doesn't feel like, that doesn't feel like it's going towards the goal. And this is the problem, because we're told all the time that you've got to keep tracking up, you've got to keep moving forward, you've got to get closer to your goal. Every day's a day to win. But that doesn't... And it's true, but it doesn't mean that we have to be going this way.

    12. CW

      The path's not necessarily linear.

    13. MS

      It's not linear, mate. Life's not fucking linear. What you can do right now is what your parents tell you. Go to your room, sit down, relax. You know? So honestly, mate, they're the four key things that I, I, I take away from it. Admit that there's a problem, reject the fact that it's gonna stop you from getting what you want, stay relaxed, and figure out what you can do right now. And what you can do right now, sometimes is... And I've said it before when, when, when I speak about my ultra races, sometimes I have to sit under a tree for five minutes-

    14. CW

      (laughs)

    15. MS

      ... and let the competition fly past because I'm on that red line and if I keep going, I'm gonna go over that red line. Sit under the tree for five minutes, and later that day, you go sailing past them. If you don't, they'll beat you every time. It's the hardest thing to do. It's a very tr- tricky way to look at things to either go back because society perception tells us we've always gotta go forward. But in going back, you're going forward.

    16. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    17. MS

      And that's really important.

  10. 27:44 – 34:05

    Maintaining Motivation

    1. CW

      One of the things that I'm fascinated by is maintaining motivation outside of situations like that.

    2. MS

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      So, during that period when you're just coming off an accident, you're just coming out of an incident, everyone will know. The, it's the New Year's Day motivation, right?

    4. MS

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      I've just had this-

    6. MS

      Yeah, yeah.

    7. CW

      ... the emotions are high, I'm compelled, I've filled myself full of all the stoicism and Ross Edgley that I can, and I-

    8. MS

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      ... feel like I'm able to get over this. How are you ensuring that you don't start to lose motivation in the, in the messy middle? That you hit that valley of despair-

    10. MS

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      ... when the motivation and the energy starts to dip?

    12. MS

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      And for me, this is a, a personal question, I'm at three and a half months post-op-

    14. MS

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      ... now on my Achilles. The... It's the most drudge work, boring, consistent everyday heel raises-

    16. MS

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... everyday stretching. It's painful.

    18. MS

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      It hurts every step that I take.

    20. MS

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Every step I'm reminded that I snapped my Achilles.

    22. MS

      Yeah.

    23. CW

      Every single time that I want to walk, I can't move as quick as my friends. I can't... I tried to hop across a street yesterday in Dubai, and I haven't tried to move quicker than a walk and I realized that I had to do this weird, like, heel hop thing where I-

    24. MS

      (laughs)

    25. CW

      ... 'cause I've got no, I've still got no tension in my Achilles.

    26. MS

      Yeah, yeah.

    27. CW

      And I'm like, every single day, "This sucks. This sucks."

    28. MS

      Yeah.

    29. CW

      Three and a half months in and this is that valley of despair. How are you continuing your recovery? And also, how long was the recovery to get yourself back to full fitness from your accident?

    30. MS

      Super good questions. There's a, there's a, there's a lot going on and, and a few different answers, mate. The number one thing that I wanna share is a lot of people say, "Oh, you recovered super fast." I'm like, "No, I didn't." You never saw the 10,000 reps I did like this, or the 5,000 reps I did like that. You never saw it. I spent hours. And we all spend hours. I, I feel your pain, mate. Achilles, heel raises, the whole thing. It's brutal. How do you maintain that? One of the... Let's talk about what tools we have right now. Smartphones. We're non-stop taking selfies. I often look back to the pictures that I have on my camera reel of when I was in hospital, when I was in intensive care.... at my lowest point. And then I'll take a selfie on that day, and you see the difference in your face, your body language. It's incredible, mate. We're not taking enough, what I would call, inventory of where we're at on a number of levels. You, three months ago, three and a half months ago, when you snapped your Achilles, you couldn't walk. When I walked in here today, you came up to the door, you lunged forward towards me, you're on your toes, and we embraced. That takes an incredible amount of power for the Achilles. You're in an incredible position, mate. But we feel the pain the whole time. It's almost there to remind us. But what's that pain there to remind us? Relax. Just today, we're only going to this level. We're not gonna run again. People get down because they're not tracking their proce- their progress. They're not taking inventory. Flip back through your camera roll of what you could do, or what you can do now, how your face looks, how your body language looks. It's all there. It really is all there. We're not using... Technology, I love it and hate it, mate. We're able to sit here now, have this conversation, and in a few days time, people around the world are unable to go through their walk through the marina and listen to us talking shit. (laughs) It's fucking brilliant. And we use it for that, but when we're in a hole, we don't use it. There's gonna be dark times. 14, 16 weeks, not able to walk properly, pain in your Achilles is a nightmare, especially the Achilles because it, it does everything. (laughs) You know, uh, just let me get this pot out. Uh, I can't. You know. (laughs) You just, there's so many things you just can't do. It's like a calf injury. It's awful. So we, we, we're constantly reminded about the negative side of it. That, again, feeds into our subconscious and makes us think that we're not doing well, we're not progressing. Spend time each day feeding your subconscious, not bullshit. And this is the difference. Lots of people say, "I'm okay. I'm getting better. I'm getting... I've lost one gram this week, I'm really in good shape." No, you're still a fat fuck. You know what I mean? Like, it just, it's not like that w- we need to bullshit ourselves, but we need to keep feeding our subconscious the positive things as well, because there's a lot. We need to celebrate the small victories. Like literally, mate, the day that I could bring my hand to parallel, to, to eye level, was just incredible.

  11. 34:05 – 39:13

    Loneliness Is A Tax

    1. CW

      quote from Alain de Botton, the guy behind The School of Life, and he says-

    2. MS

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      ... "Loneliness is a kind of tax that we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind."

    4. MS

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      And it's my favorite video, Why We're Fated to be Lonely.

    6. MS

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      Um, and, uh, that's natural. No one looks at the things that you do physically and presumes that you are a normal representation of a human-

    8. MS

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      ... because not many people run 30 marathons in 30 days-

    10. MS

      Yeah, sure.

    11. CW

      ... and decide to do the stuff that you do. And yet, when we hear that someone like that, non-typical physically-

    12. MS

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      ... h- is non-typical socially-

    14. MS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. CW

      ... maybe struggles to find people with whom they can connect-

    16. MS

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... that doesn't necessarily click straight away, but it should make sense.

    18. MS

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      "Loneliness is a kind of tax we have to pay to atone for a certain complexity of mind."

    20. MS

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      And the more extraordinary you are, the fewer people are like you.

    22. MS

      Yeah.

    23. CW

      Um, given the choice between honesty and acceptability, a lot of people choose the latter.

    24. MS

      Mm-hmm.

    25. CW

      A lot of people will choose to nerf the edges of the way that they operate, the way that they think.

    26. MS

      True.

    27. CW

      And that feeds us back into what you were talking about before, that we, we absorb our values and our desires and our operating procedures from society-

    28. MS

      Yes.

    29. CW

      ... from the people around us.

    30. MS

      Yes.

  12. 39:13 – 42:33

    The Rubber Meets The Road

    1. MS

      Unless there's a real reason why I shouldn't. Obviously, the day after I-

    2. CW

      So, so that unless, that-

    3. MS

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... is the point at which get up, unless... And the tolerance that people have for that-

    5. MS

      Yes.

    6. CW

      ... is where the rubber meets the road with this stuff.

    7. MS

      Absolutely, mate. And th- that's the problem is that, you know, "I'll set my alarm for 7:00 in the morning, and if I wake up and I feel okay, I'll, I'll probably go to the gym." Like, come on, you're never gonna go. Like, you know you're not gonna go. Whereas, "I'll set my alarm (clears throat) for 5:59 because I'm gonna get out of bed, I'm gonna put my trainers on, and I'm gonna go for a walk," which suddenly changes the whole world. If you don't feel great when you wake up, that's okay. It's fine. It's normal. There has to be, Brené Brown talks about it, there has to be this vulnerability, mate. I, I go through lows. But when I'm in that low, the, the, the option is, or the goal is, is to make that trough as small as possible. I've got clients, and we've all known people that have been off for two weeks, just not feeling themselves. "Far out, what have you done about it?" "Nothing yet." "How long you been feeling like this?" "A month." "What? So you've tolerated waking up every morning for a month feeling like shit?" "Yeah, I thought it was gonna get better." It doesn't get better. And this is where we have to understand we all go through it, but I think people that, what you used, bounce back, just identify it. Go back to what we were saying earlier, admit it, "I'm feeling shit. No, there's nothing wrong. But I feel like shit. There is something wrong. We admit that there's a problem. Let's go for a walk and let's see what happens." Is it my mind? Is it my thoughts? Is it physically? Do we scan our body? Do we take a, a, a morning naked, uh, mi- bathroom mirror selfie? Back to the phone. One of the best things, mate, to track your progress. Make a bathroom mirror selfie. Please make sure your iCloud is not synced up. (laughs)

    8. CW

      Is not linked, yeah, exactly. This is, this is one of those huge, uh, huge data breaches that ends up happening with-

    9. MS

      Isn't it? (laughs)

    10. CW

      ... Marcus Smith's nudes leak on the internet, doesn't it?

    11. MS

      But we have to have this decision making process. If anyone thinks that Elon's not having a bad day, if anyone thinks that I can sit and talk about motivation and I... because I run, you're making an excuse for yourself. We're all going through tough times. It's not easy. But that decision making process and our tolerance of how long we're gonna be in a bad mood is totally our choice. And we've gotta have... But we also have to train it. And not everything you try will work on every situation. It's like being a handyman and only having a hammer.You're- (laughs) you know, I know that's a shit cliche, but really, that's the thing. And you've learnt... We've said it. You've learnt all these tools in 2020. We've read more books, listened to more podcasts than ever before. Try some of those tools. Don't just... We're- we're pretty quick to accept, and I think that sucks because we accept that feeling shit is part of life.

  13. 42:33 – 50:23

    The equanimity game

    1. MS

      It is, but it should only be (laughs) a small part, is- is- is our objective.

    2. CW

      There's a thing that Marcus Aurelius used to do called the equanimity game.

    3. MS

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      And he used to imagine falling off a horse and it was a game to get back on. And increasingly, like life as a game is something that continues to come back. I really do... I- I haven't quite worked out why I love it so much, but I think it just reminds us that a lot of the challenges that we're coming up against will, in some future point, just be a memory.

    5. MS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. CW

      They'll just be like an instant replay that we can go back to in our mind. Like a perfect example of this was after I had my operation, um, some of the opiates that I was put on caused stomach inflammation. So for about three days after my op, I was unable to sleep, unable to eat, was laid up in bed with my foot on a big wedge, just in constant seven out of ten pain. Couldn't do anything, like for three s- days straight.

    7. MS

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    8. CW

      No one could take the pain away. I'd stopped taking the oral morphine, the codeine, the paracetamol, the ibuprofen because I wanted the stomach pain to stop, which meant that my ankle now, only a couple of days post-op was... that pain was through the roof.

    9. MS

      Yeah.

    10. CW

      And I was doing all of this with one leg.

    11. MS

      Wow.

    12. CW

      So when I needed to go to the bathroom to not do anything, I was hopping there, I was having to use crutches, I was in the dark, I was feeling miserable, I was on my own. Mum and Dad would come and see me or my housemates would come and see me or my friends would come and see me. They can't do anything. They can't take it away. And at the time, it feels like a- a existential curse that's been given just to you.

    13. MS

      Yes.

    14. CW

      That this is your pain, this is your suffering to bear. And now, when I look back, it's just a story I tell on a podcast. And I'm like, me then would hate hearing me now being so flippant about it. It's like, "No, it was really... It was- it was bad. You're not forgetting how bad it was."

    15. MS

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    16. CW

      And I'm like, "No, no, no, it's not about that." And trying to put ourself into that third party perspective, I think, like treating life as the equanimity game-

    17. MS

      Yeah.

    18. CW

      ... how quickly can I get back on the horse? Okay, like I'm inevitably going to fall off.

    19. MS

      Of course, yeah.

    20. CW

      How quickly can I get back on? I think that that's a really nice way for us to frame it. And I'm a big fan of maxims and pithy statements because I think that they- they spearhead big concepts that would take us 10 minutes to remind ourselves of-

    21. MS

      Yes.

    22. CW

      ... into just little aphorisms.

    23. MS

      Yeah.

    24. CW

      Are there any other things... You're going through an event, you're suffering, you're deep in the hole.

    25. MS

      Mm-hmm.

    26. CW

      What are the things during that time that you remind yourself of? Are there certain phrases and aphorisms or concepts that you rely on to keep going?

    27. MS

      You know, I've been asked this a lot recently. (laughs) I don't know, I don't know why. So I've- I've actually had more thoughts about it. But one of the things that I think of the most is, you chose to be here. I choose what I'm doing. No one's got a gun at my head. And when you think about it, we have, now more than ever, an insane amount of choice. And running marathons, going to work, building relationships, you choose. No one's forcing you. And we need to get comfortable with that. We need to embrace that. We need to acknowledge that. Everyone's like, "I have to go to work." No, you don't. You have to go to work in a number of scenarios because at the end of the month you get what's called a paycheck, which then gets you the shit car that you like.

    28. CW

      (laughs)

    29. MS

      And that car is feeding into your insecurities. It's giving you temporary happiness. And it's giving you temporary happiness because it's- it's numbing a block that you're not willing to address, which could come from a previous subconscious behavior. You don't have to go to work tomorrow. Nobody has to go to work tomorrow. You choose to. So when I'm in trouble, huh, I chose to be here. The other thing is, and I think it's... there's a few other things as well, is that this is the moment. So a lot of the time we'll get, "I wish I wasn't here. I wish I was on the beach." You have to go... You mentioned Marcus Aurelius, you have to go a little bit stoic. You have to look at creating presence. You have to... Everyone's tried Headspace this year or Calm or whatever, for sure. (laughs)

    30. CW

      (laughs)

  14. 50:23 – 57:18

    Being present

    1. MS

    2. CW

      One of the things I've been thinking a lot about this year is the reason that people go and do big things. I say that as someone who's just taken a trip out to Dubai and is on the 25th floor of Dubai Marina.

    3. MS

      (laughs)

    4. CW

      Um, but I think one of the reasons that people do big, impressive events, they book a trip away to somewhere that's grand, they decide to buy a new car, they do something epic, it's because it's very hard not to be present when you have that much stimulus.

    5. MS

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      And one of the goals that everybody should have is to try and find that level of presence without that level of stimulus. Some-

    7. MS

      Very hard though, right?

    8. CW

      Oh, absolutely.

    9. MS

      Yeah.

    10. CW

      Like, if you're taking the same route to work that you've taken a thousand times before-

    11. MS

      Yeah.

    12. CW

      ... what's the reason for you to be present? You know that tree, you know that, like, uh, Ford Mondeo with the dent in the side of it.

    13. MS

      (laughs)

    14. CW

      You know that, like, guy with that dog.

    15. MS

      Yeah.

    16. CW

      Like, you know all of this stuff. And Sam Harris has this beautiful quote where he says that, "What most of life is, is giving our minds a reason to be here in the present moment."

    17. MS

      Mm.

    18. CW

      That's what we should be aiming to do in life.

    19. MS

      Yeah.

    20. CW

      Giving ourself a good enough reason to be here in the present moment.

    21. MS

      I like it.

    22. CW

      Now, you could do that by jumping out of a plane.

    23. MS

      Yeah.

    24. CW

      That's one of the attractions, I think, of extreme sports, also probably one of the attractions of people that are into bondage.

    25. MS

      Yeah.

    26. CW

      There's this famous dominatrix who says, "Nothing captures attention like a whip."

    27. MS

      (laughs) That's true.

    28. CW

      And you think, like, if, if you wanna get someone's attention, slap them.

    29. MS

      Yeah.

    30. CW

      For one or two seconds after that you're thinking of nothing else.

  15. 57:18 – 1:16:10

    Stoicism

    1. MS

      But when I was coming here this morning, I could have got stuck in the lift, but I didn't think about that. So we kind of, why would we, we control... I got in the lift, I pressed the button, I, I'm done. If the lift breaks when I'm on the 24th or 25 floors, that's it. I've done all of the training. I've got all of my equipment right. I set off at the time, I go on the pace, I go on the track, and then I keep going. Why would I worry about it? We're worrying about things that we can't control. Like, this is very stoic at the same time, mate. Very, very stoic. You know? And the more... It's, it's, it's funny because three or four years ago I started sort of reading more about stoicisms- stoicism and, and it sort of really started to resonate with me in a, you know, Daily Stoic podcast as well. And then, you know, Ross Edgley's, uh, Stoic Sports Science. I'm like, "Far out. This is like..." It all just stuff that... But is it, is it the stoicism or is that just a way of human behavior that they found, that they wrote about that we find about being present? You know? Focusing on what you can control and putting all of your energy into what you can control will remove self-doubt. You're only gonna doubt stuff if you're not confident in the plan and the decision-making process. I make bad decisions, mate. (laughs) I've made a load of bad decisions. But we made decisions in that time based on a decision-making process. Have I since tweaked that decision-making process based around certain situations? Absolutely. I think that's learning. And mate, I'm, I'm turning 42 next month. I'm still super young. I'm still trying to figure shit out and whether my shit really works or not. But at the same time, I don't think... I think self-doubt comes from issues that we, we're not addressing in the correct way. And why are we not, mate? 'Cause we come, everything we've spoken about, all these different angles that we've kind of gone through on this show, we kinda come to the same thing, that a lot of this could be based on subconscious behavior from our past that sometimes is really hard to address. The more I learn about motivation, I work with people in performance in really tough situations... Tonight I'm gonna take a guy to the middle of the desert at 6:00 PM and he's gonna run for 24 hours non-stop.

    2. CW

      Wow.

    3. MS

      And he's gonna learn shit that he's never learned before. He's gonna have moments that parts of his childhood, and behavior, and with his relationship with his wife, with his kids, with his parents, is gonna start to come and fuck with his mind. It's gonna be an insane experience for him. But he's gonna bring that behavior, maybe, not definitely, right up here and get it out.... it's really hard, mate. And that's why people are unable to achieve great things a lot of the time. That's why we have self-doubt, confidence. We have a victim mindset 'cause we've not dealt with things in the right way. And it's tragic.

    4. CW

      You mentioned your buddy who's about to run 24 hours. You've done a variety of different endurance events as well.

    5. MS

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      Is there a particular point that you could identify as the most discomfort you've been in during them?

    7. MS

      (laughs) Every event's different, mate. Um, this time last year, I was running around a 400-meter track. I did that for 24 hours and it was about... It's quite a weird story, this one, mate. Uh, but there's humor to it and then there's some quite serious part. It was about 11:00 AM. I started at 3:00 PM. It was 11:00 AM the next day. It was getting hot. When heat comes, the gut microbiome changes. I was incredibly fortunate that I had a lot of people that were running with me the whole time around the track. I think I only did, like, two laps on my own. So, and some of these people, I didn't really know them very well, so which I shouldn't have done. And this is so, like, not like me, but I didn't feel that it was right to fart in front of them.

    8. CW

      (laughs)

    9. MS

      So, mate, literally, I'm fucking... I'm, I'm, I'm 18 hours round the track and when you're doing physical activity and you're taking on different foods and caffeine gels, and it's not healthy, mate. Your guts are in a mess and I'm not able to fart. And I got to a point where, where Tom, Tom Walker, who, who works with me and, and, and helps me on a lot of these things, he's a, he's a very intelligent sports scientist, so when we wanna get geeky, we go into stuff, he was running with me and I said to him, I said, "Mate, you've gotta get rid of these people." He's like, "Mate, people have come for you."

    10. CW

      (laughs)

    11. MS

      And I'm like, "Well, mate, I'm literally about to shit myself."

    12. CW

      (laughs)

    13. MS

      So he says to the people, he says, "Can you give him 20 meters?"

    14. CW

      (laughs)

    15. MS

      And, "He just needs a bit of space." And honestly, mate, there are some fantastic human beings on the planet, in my life, and, and I am genuinely grateful. They all just said yes.

    16. CW

      (laughs)

    17. MS

      And they just backed off and I'm literally just farting like a train wreck.

    18. CW

      But they're running downstream of you, mate.

    19. MS

      They're running... Yeah, it was a disaster. (laughs) You could clearly smell it, like.

    20. CW

      Oh, come on. You should've said, "Go ahead of me 20 meters."

    21. MS

      (laughs) And I'm obviously incredibly fatigued. I'd done about 180, 100, s- about 180K, let's say. And this pain in my gut was getting worse when I was farting and I said to Tom, I said, "Mate, this is, this is not really helping." And it was getting hot as well. It was about 30 degrees. We, we had everything. It was quite, it was quite good for Dubai. I mean, it rained, it was cold. Like, at one point, I was running in a long sleeve and, and then it was getting hot towards midday. And I said to him, I said, "Mate, I need to go. We need to go to the toilet." And he was like, "Well, of course we can go to the toilet." But I'd got in this sort of tunnel vision that I just had to keep running. And, anyway, I'd gone to the toilet and literally I went in the toilet, mate, and I've got my sunglasses and my cap on, no shirt, and I'd dropped my shorts and I'm sat on the toilet and everything's come out and I'm in this incredible amount of pain. My legs are fucked, like completely. Running on a track is just, it's just the same motion over and over (claps hands) . And I'm shitting myself. And I look around and I see the butt hose, which is very common here, the, the butt hose. You don't have it much in the UK. I was just like, "Fuck." And I start having a shower.

    22. CW

      (laughs)

    23. MS

      I'm like, "My legs are killing." And I'm like... I didn't know where I was. I was just in this, I was just in this insane state of pain, of just pure joy, of everything because I knew I was getting better, I was getting cooler and, and Tom knocked on the door, I don't know if it was three minutes later or five minutes later, he goes, "You okay in there, mate?"

    24. CW

      (laughs)

    25. MS

      I was like, "Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah." I, I... And then I realized I was there to run. And I put the butt hose down and I pulled up my shorts. I'm dripping wet through, water everywhere. I don't even know if my arse was clean and-

    26. CW

      (laughs)

    27. MS

      And I just got up and I just went out to the track and I carried on running incredibly slow for the last two or three hours. Why do I share that, mate, is because this is an incredible experience on so many different levels. There's so many different moving parts. There's not wanting to let people down. There's, "Am I embarrassed? Why do I care?" There's the pain that I'm going through. Then there's just getting into this cubicle and the picture as you've all just thought through, some of you are a bit more scarred than others-

    28. CW

      (laughs)

    29. MS

      ... of this man laying back on a toilet, like half on... Almost like you'd find someone drunk in a nightclub or something, dare I say it.

    30. CW

      (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:16:10

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