Chris Bumstead - The Dark Side Of The Road To Greatness (4K) | 6X Mr Olympia

Chris Bumstead 0:00 I was in the hospital for my Olympia prep at about four weeks out for a week, and I thought everything was gonna be taken away from me.

Chris Williamson 0:06 Still Olympian.

Chris Bumstead 0:07 Let's go, Chris!

Chris Williamson 0:10 Chris Bumstead! (audience cheering)

Chris Bumstead 0:11 I have this thing, I say, "Champion mentality." It's not about winning, it's not about a trophy, it's about having no quit. (dramatic music) I could have a thousand bullet points on a champion mentality, but I used to look up to people. And they said, "Do you like Michael Jordan?" But that's not fucking me.

Chris Williamson 0:23 Four-time Olympian.

Chris Bumstead 0:26 There's no rules to being a champion. Breaking that stigma that, like, both can co-exist in a alpha male, too, for men. You know? Like, you can be this fucking killer who cries. (laughs) You know? Like, you can. You know, a champion makes his own rules and rides out the wave like that. (logo buzzes and beeps)

Chris Williamson 0:43 Chris Bumstead, welcome to the show.

Chris Bumstead 0:45 Thank you. Grateful to be here. Very excited.

Chris Williamson 0:48 What does,

Chris Williamson 0:49 "Pressure is a privilege," mean? (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 0:51 Oh, you really dive into this quick, eh? So casual, and then you just stare me in the eye and ask your first question.

Chris Williamson 0:57 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 0:57 Pressures of privilege is definitely something that, like, evolved over, uh, time. I think I first heard it from Tim Grover, which is someone who kind of, like, his book, Relentless, put my mindset into, like, the focus on my mindset in competing, rather than just my physical body, 'cause I knew that's what it would take to, like, get to the next level. And I think after winning in Olympia, I was like, "Oh, fuck." Like, I just showed my cards. I had people know what I'm capable of. Now there's no one I gotta beat. There's no, like, second place, third place, like, flow. It's like, "No, you're the best, and unless you're the best, we just forget about you." So it was like this pressure I felt on myself, and it was coming externally for a while. And I was trying to, like, understand how I could gravitate that a little bit better without it kind of bringing me down and slowing down my progress. And I had to kind of function to the reality that the pressure was really coming from myself rather than externally, and that it's a good pressure. It's a pressure to be better and to become the best version of myself, and it's something that if I choose to use it properly, it's gonna push me to be a better version of myself, to grow mentally, physically, my relationships, however I want it to gr- let me grow if I choose to take control of the aspects I have control over. So in e- essence, it's a... The more pressure you have on you, and if you take it as a privilege, it's a choice to put your perception of the privilege rather than a burden. And then by taking the power back in that choice, it pushes you in a direction of being better rather than holding you back.

Chris Williamson 2:12 Yeah, there's a pain that comes from the expectation of success-

Chris Bumstead 2:17 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 2:17 ... I suppose, which is different to your first time.

Chris Bumstead 2:20 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 2:20 You know, when you've got nothing to prove, you have nothing to lose.

Chris Bumstead 2:23 The underdog's always the funnest.

Chris Williamson 2:25 Is that the way that you've found it?

Chris Bumstead 2:27 I mean, I definitely... The beginning of my career was just... I never h- even had aspirations to be Mr. Olympia when I started. I just loved to train, loved to body-build. And then once that I started to get that pressure on me, that started to fade a bit, because I was taking in so much outside noise, and I stopped doing it for the right reasons of why I started, and just the fact that I love it and I enjoy it and I enjoy pushing my body to the limits. So that affected me for a bit. But even, like, my first ever Olympia win, because of other stuff I had gone through, I actually didn't even really enjoy it, because of, like, stress of my health and pressure, something I'd gone through the year before. All this, like, not being present and suppressing all my, like, fears I had around it, I just, like, battled through it, got there, and I was like, "It's over." Like, "I just won at Olympia. This is the goal I've been chasing, like, for six, seven years specifically in the league. I have it, and now why, why do I feel like I'm missing something?" And I think I kind of uncovered that I w- suppressing all this pressure, all this fear of my health, all these other aspects, and in doing so, I was also s- suppressing my ability to fear joy, feel joy and excitement and the, the positive side of things. 'Cause you always hear you can't, like, selectively numb emotions. You either pretty much numb everything, or you feel all of it. And I was definitely a numbing kinda guy. I was like, "Fuck it. Don't feel it. Push it aside, compartmentalize, and get to work." And I was just like, "Okay, no, this isn't right. Something's gotta change." And those two years, my... Just came second the only year before I got sick. Won that Olympia and did enjoy it. This was like, "All right, physical stuff is down. I won. I gotta focus on my mental side right now, because I wa- If I'm doing this, I wanna love it." I started because I love it, and I wanna keep doing it because I love it.

Chris Williamson 3:58 I'll remember the, uh... Conor McGregor was talking about, I think, the first time that he won the interim title.

Chris Bumstead 4:04 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 4:05 And then the second time that he beat Aldo in 13 seconds, and before that fight, which seemed to be kind of peak McGregor, right?

Chris Bumstead 4:12 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:12 He was just this savant, like an artist of war.

Chris Bumstead 4:15 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:15 And, uh, someone was asking him, "What are you going to do differently this time that you didn't do last time?" And he said, "I'm gonna enjoy it."

Chris Bumstead 4:20 Yep.

Chris Williamson 4:21 Because he stepped out on stage, and there's that famous photo of him, and he stood like this-

Chris Bumstead 4:24 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:25 ... looking out at the weigh-in, and just-

Chris Bumstead 4:27 Just feel it.

Chris Williamson 4:28 And he said he can barely remember it.

Chris Bumstead 4:30 Like a children

Narrator 4:30 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 4:30 Yeah, it's fucking amazing. You know the photo? I mean, he stood there-

Chris Bumstead 4:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:33 ... and he's got that tattoo up the back of his-

Chris Bumstead 4:34 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:35 And he said, "I can barely remember it."

Chris Bumstead 4:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 4:37 And he got another bite of the apple.

Chris Bumstead 4:39 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 4:39 He got to do it again.

Chris Bumstead 4:40 That's, that's like... And I... It's a huge part of my life. Again, like, getting sick, I felt like I was gonna have to stop competing, and then I won that Olympia, and then I'm like, "Okay, now I have the opportunity to do this again right." Like, that's an absolute blessing. Like, I'm so grateful that now I get to do it again, and I've done it four times and I'm going for a fifth. Like, the fact that I've had four years to, like, enjoy it more and pr- and, like, perfect my craft, it's just like, it's something I'm, like, counting my days that I'm grateful for every single morning. So it makes it more fun.

Chris Williamson 5:08 I've heard you say that, "Winning is not what I once thought it was. I have found it to be much more complex than our traditional definitions of success." What's that mean?

Chris Bumstead 5:20 It comes from when I was younger, just, like, wanting more stuff, a lot of external stuff, a lot of success. Again, things out of your control. I wanted, like, circumstances and objects. I wanted success, thinking of something I could, like, the world could give me, rather than something I could give myself. And I have to look at winning as success as kind of one and the same. And there's this awesome quote by, I think it's Jim Carrey, Jim Carrey, and it goes, "I wish for the world to realize all of their dreams so that they can realize they don't make them complete." And he's talking about that most people's dreams are very, like, external, like, champions. Like, they wanna win a medal, they wanna win a trophy, they want a nice car and all this stuff. Then you get it, and when you have everything, you realize, "This isn't what I wanted. I don't feel complete right now." And I have the amazing opportunity in my life to have accomplished so many of my dreams and realized that there's still a void missing there. The more money I get, the more titles I get, the more I get, it's not filling me up more. But then I discovered that over time, like-It's the effort, it's the journey. It's, like, suffering through times that I don't wanna be at the gym, or why I wanna quit on my diet, and I push myself. And every single moment, every day leading up to the show, and I win all those moments, that's winning. That's like winning in life, continuously every day. And through that journey, being able to build my relationships, not sacrifice them for winning, be able to make myself a better person, not a more stressed-out, anxious person. All that stuff coming together, I've already won before I have a trophy in my hands. When I stand on stage, I haven't quit on a workout, I haven't quit on a cardio se- session, my girlfriend still loves me in the background, she doesn't hate me for neglecting her for the last three months of prep. I'm like, "I won." You know? Like, I feel fucking good right now. And am I g- if I lose, am I gonna leave and be really sad, and, like, cry, and, like, grieve that loss? Absolutely, but I'm still gonna be proud of everything I've put in. And at the end of the day, that's all I can control, and to me, that's winning.

Chris Williamson 7:01 How much do you think the joy of winning is just relief and a brief respite from fear of not being enough?

Chris Bumstead 7:09 A lot of it. A lot of it. And I've talked to other people who have won things before, and myself. And that first Olympia was a test of that. Like, the biggest thing I felt was just relief. I'm like, "Fuck, I did it. It's over. Okay, you can relax."

Chris Williamson 7:20 "I'm not a loser."

Chris Bumstead 7:20 It's like-

Chris Williamson 7:20 "I'm not a piece of shit."

Chris Bumstead 7:21 Yeah, it's like that (sighs) exhale. And then, a day or two goes by, or a week or something, and you're like, "I gotta do that again, but better." If I ever wanna feel like that again, this expectation's on me now, I have to do more and I have to do better. I have to be better, I have to work harder, I have to take myself to those limits and further, because now that's my standard. And now I need to overcome that standard to really impress anyone. Like, that whole thing is showing your cards. As soon as someone knows you're good, what y- how good you are, that's a baseline. You have to be better than that to be, like, okay.

Chris Williamson 7:49 So how ... W- what is your advice to someone that is struggling with the pressure of success? Perhaps, you know, for a long time they've been thinking that they want to get to a place, then they set a standard, and now they realize there's pain of having to meet that standard again.

Chris Bumstead 8:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 8:03 How have you managed to balance these two, uh, these two worlds? The desire to continue to be better-

Chris Bumstead 8:10 Yep.

Chris Williamson 8:11 ... and also the requirement to be able to be grateful and enjoy the present moment?

Chris Bumstead 8:17 I think on one aspect, and something that is very strange, I think, for people to hear, 'cause a lot of champions we hear are just, like, killer mentality, like, win at all costs. I think on one aspect, I've accepted that I'd be okay with losing. I accepted that if I lost, like I said, I would grieve, I would be sad, it would suck, but, like, life would go on. I would be okay. And the Olympia's a huge part of my life, but it's not everything part of my life. So kinda giving myself permission to fail, in essence, almost gives myself permission to try harder. And that maybe it's not like that for everybody, but for myself, as soon as I was like, "Okay, if this happens and I lose, what then?" Like, I either quit and leave and move on with my life, or I come back and I try harder and that motivates me for more. But either way, I'm still me. I still h- have who I am as a person, that I'll always control. I have my relationships, people I love around me, and a lotta beautiful stuff going on in my life, so, like, I'm gonna be okay. And that really just kinda alleviated a lotta pressure and gave me permission to perform even more. 'Cause a lotta people are afraid to even try hard because then if you try hard and you fail, you feel like a failure.

Chris Williamson 9:14 Mm.

Chris Bumstead 9:15 But the aspect of being a failure doesn't come from the success in the end. It comes from if you really quit on yourself, or if you don't put in the effort you know you can put in and you're kinda holding back on your true potential. That's when I think you really, deep down, feel like a failure, like, underneath your soul.

Chris Williamson 9:29 Yeah, there's some interesting, uh,

Chris Williamson 9:32 trends at the moment that I'm noticing, uh, and one of them is something I've called the cynicism safety blanket, and that's what you're talking about now-

Chris Bumstead 9:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 9:39 ... I think. Cynicism is a guarded response which sets yourself up against disappointment. Its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad. It is a preemptive strike against a perceived threat.

Chris Bumstead 9:52 Yep.

Chris Williamson 9:52 If I tell myself that all women are bad, then I'm less likely to seek a relationship with women, and as a consequence, I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection. If I tell myself that everything is shit, or that things will never get better, then I'm excused of ever having to try at anything. It is more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism. To cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing, and optimism as delusion. It's sour grapes at an existential level. If everything sucks and everyone is terrible, and reality is disappointing, and you know that for a fact, then it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb, delusional, and the problem. The upside of never having to try is never having to feel the pain of failure. And I think that's what you're talking about there.

Chris Bumstead 10:35 Yeah, very much so. And I think that even ... that applies to all aspects of life. And th- what really pushed me to, like, learn these lessons ... Again, I'm not, like, a psychologist or educated like that, but I've lived a lot of life, and I've had a lot of ups and downs. And in 2018, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. I was in the hospital for my Olympia prep at about four weeks out for a week, and I came out and I didn't know if I was gonna be able to compete. I didn't know if I'd be even healthy ever again. I thought everything was gonna be taken away from me. And I got through it, I came second at that Olympia somehow, and it was, like, a battle to the death of numbing everything and just suppressing anything I feel, and just trying to focus on bodybuilding. And I did that for about a year and a half, and this whole mindset I built around it was this fear that I'm gonna get sick again. I need to quit bodybuilding 'cause I'm gonna get sick. I don't have control over my health. I'm gonna get sick. And then just this constant fear was looming over my head, because if I got sick, then I could be like, "I knew I'd get sick." You know? Like, it was g- it was bound for everything to be taken away from me. It almost happened last year, it's gonna happen next year. And I was just living in that to create, and almost prepare myself, to create a little safety blanket, like you said, to just be like, "Okay, when it happens, I can say I told you so, I was right, and I'm ready for it."

Chris Williamson 11:41 Mm.

Chris Bumstead 11:42 Rather than leaning into actually enjoying life and kinda moving past that. So I had to really, like, reframe my mindset. And I started to ... I went through this whole journey of, like, after that I turned into, "You won't get sick," trying to convince myself, "I'm not gonna get sick. I'm not gonna get sick."

Chris Williamson 11:57 Denial.

Chris Bumstead 11:58 Denial, exactly. But then you're living in a sense of lack and avoidance, and then you're also constantly thinking of that. And when you're thinking of that constantly, it puts y- your body in this state of reaction, where you're waiting for something to happen. And when something happens, you're like, "Ah." You know? Like, "Fuck. It's against what I keep telling myself." And then I switch to telling myself, "No, you are healthy." Instead of thinking not and in lack, "What do you want?" Be like, "You are healthy. You are going to be okay," all this stuff. And then that still didn't really make me feel better, 'cause I'm still kinda unknowing. And then I literally came to the conclusion that I don't fucking know.I was like, "The only truth right now is that I don't know what's gonna happen, but there are measures I can take to take control of my health as best as I can, and the rest is up to the universe." But e- the more I stress about it and the more I think about it, it's creating more of this state of reaction myself. It's taking me out of the present moment to be able to enjoy and perform the way I know I can, and I'm not able to enjoy it. And I still battle, s- of course, sometimes. I didn't just forget about it. But just the understanding and baseline that I don't know the future, so I have to let go of some of those things, is the only thing that really helped my mind get through all that times. And I mean, it's continuously now when I compete and I'm like, "Am I gonna get sick?" Be like, "I don't know. But when it happens, you're gonna deal with it and you'll be okay, so just enjoy this moment right now."

Chris Williamson 13:07 What's your inner voice like now?

Chris Williamson 13:09 Because I've heard you talk about battles with depression and anxiety in the past. That's something that I dealt with throughout all of my 20s as well.

Chris Bumstead 13:16 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 13:16 And me reflecting on the change in the texture of my own mind-

Chris Bumstead 13:22 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 13:22 ... through a lot of self-work and a lot of external work too. Like, I can't pretend like the external accolades of the world, me proving to the world and the world saying that, "Yes, you are good enough because the things that you have applied yourself to have been, uh, y- you've been given the, the rewards that you wanted."

Chris Bumstead 13:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 13:37 Um, but yeah, what, what's your inner voice like now as someone who used to deal with depression and anxiety?

Chris Bumstead 13:43 I was definitely more leaning into the anxious, more th- rather than depressed, and that was more, like, just projecting the future based off unhealed wounds from the past and fears of what happened in the past was gonna repeat itself. But now I think my inner voice is just... And it's a constant work I'm doing. I think mental health in general is like putting in reps. It's not just like, "Oh, I'm good." It's, like, continuously giving yourself the love you need mentally and physically. And I'm just trying to build a lot more empathy and compassion for myself, 'cause I didn't directly shame myself being like, "You're not good enough. You're a piece of shit, all this shit." But I would be like, I expected more of myself. Like, we were talking with public speaking, I'm like, "You just won four Olympias and now you're literally, like, heart racing, can barely breathe 'cause you're about to talk in front of, like, a few hundred people? Like, you should be able to do this. You're better than this." And that's a form of shame in itself, of expecting something out of myself that maybe I'm not ready for or, or just rather than accepting who I am and where I'm at in my life. So I think just building that compassion and being, like, accepting who I am, and who I am isn't what this, like, this perception that maybe people have built with me. And, you know, I believe... You had this guy on, Peter Crone. I love that guy.

Chris Williamson 14:49 Yeah, he's beast.

Chris Bumstead 14:49 He has this quote and he says, "Life presents you with people and circumstances to show you where you're not free." And I think that the way I spoke about my inner voice and this expectation of myself with where I wasn't free, and then life put me in this position of millions of people with this idolized perception of someone they look up to as calm, cool, collected, has their shit together, sibum. He's so good, he's up there. And I was like, "I really have to be that now. Like, I better be fucking perfect now." You know, my dad was like that growing up too, so I had this like, "Okay, men are stoic and they don't feel anything and they can, they weather the storm and they're good." And I just was like emo- a very sentient being, like emotional. And I was like, "Fuck." So I kinda denied that part of myself for a while, but now being able to just integrate that and accepting it is who I am, and being able to show it more and allow it to come up more in situations. Like, I almost try and twist some conversations, like allow myself to be like, "I'm not perfect. I have anxiety." Uh, just to, like, show that it's there and then being like, "Well, now this facade's kind of gone. The presentation isn't to be what people want me to be, it's just to be myself, and whatever happens after that can fuck off." So, I guess overall, the inner voice and myself I'm building is just more compassion and empathy.

Chris Williamson 15:56 I would say so too. I remember, um, I did this workout, uh, the high-intensity interval workout thing on a, uh, an Assault bike.

Chris Bumstead 16:03 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 16:04 And this guy that was coaching me at the time asked me to try and remember where my mind went to when my heart got into zone five.

Chris Bumstead 16:13 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:13 So whatever, like, 160, 170 BPM and above. And the voice... This is probably six or seven years ago. And, uh, the voice that came back was fucking awful.

Chris Bumstead 16:22 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:22 Like it was so just, "This sucks, you're not good enough." Uh, panic, uh, uh, like, tightness, and, and, and terror.

Chris Bumstead 16:30 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 16:31 And I did a workout again a couple of months... A- actually no, it was two weeks ago with Tim Kennedy.

Chris Bumstead 16:35 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:35 You know Tim? UFC guy?

Chris Bumstead 16:37 Yeah, I know.

Chris Williamson 16:37 He's like, like a professional bad guy, but he works for the US government.

Chris Bumstead 16:41 Okay.

Chris Williamson 16:41 Anyway, uh, I did this workout with him and my heart rate must have got to that same place.

Chris Bumstead 16:45 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 16:46 And it's the first time I've done it since then, and the words that came back to me were so different.

Chris Bumstead 16:51 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 16:52 That I couldn't believe it. I was like, "Oh my God, I thought that was the..." I, I genuinely thought that was the physics of my own, uh, inner experience.

Chris Bumstead 17:00 Mm-hmm. Like that who you were.

Chris Williamson 17:01 Like that these were just uncha- Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 17:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:03 Th- these are just the unchanging dynamics, these are the laws of the inser- inside of Chris Wilson.

Chris Bumstead 17:07 Did you find over time you had done, like, you had to work on it and put in reps and, like, understand? Or was it just purely your physical, like, abilities and success and the world telling you you're good, and the podcast succeeding, all this shit? Was it that or was it more personal, like, reflection and empathy?

Chris Williamson 17:23 So-

Chris Bumstead 17:24 Or both?

Chris Williamson 17:25 I th- I think both. I, I would love to be able to say, "You know, just 1,500 sessions of meditation-"

Chris Bumstead 17:31 (laughs) Shit.

Chris Williamson 17:31 "... and a couple of good psilocybin trips and, you know, that was me sorted."

Chris Bumstead 17:34 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:34 But it, it, it would be a lie to say that the world pr- telling you or you proving to the world and the world saying back, answering back that-

Chris Bumstead 17:43 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 17:43 ... "Yes, you are good enough." I think it's unrealistic to have confidence when you don't have an undeniable stack of proof that you are who you say you are.

Chris Bumstead 17:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:52 Like, if, if the only place that your confidence exists is in your mind and you've never manifested it into reality, then what you're asking for isn't confidence, it's delusion.

Chris Bumstead 17:59 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 17:59 Because how can you say that you are all of these things... "I'm a really great husband. I feel like a great husband, but I go out and cheat on my wife every night."

Chris Bumstead 18:07 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:07 Well, I... There's an incongruence here, but you can behave in the way of being a great husband and not believe it yourself because you have unhealed traumas from the past-

Chris Bumstead 18:16 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 18:17 ... and stuff like that. So it's definitely both. Um, but yeah, it's, it's just really, really important, I think, for people to hear that the answer to the holes and the voids that you feel inside of yourself... If the guy that's won Mr. Olympia-... four times in a row is telling you that the inner work is an important part of that process, and that upon winning the first one, the main sensation was relief, not happiness.

Chris Bumstead 18:44 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 18:44 What are you, w- where do you think that you're gonna get this from if you're seeking outside of yourself validation to fix something that's inside?

Chris Bumstead 18:50 Mm-hmm. It's being smart enough to, like, balance that too, and, like, know the work you have to put in. So, like, you have to earn the right, like you said, you can't just tell yourself this delusion, you have to earn the right to get there. You have to put in the work and then you have to kind of like lean into the, "Okay, now I'm really putting in the work, now I need to work on how, why I'm talking to myself so negatively or not." But unless you have both there, it doesn't really work. It's like one plus one equals two, but you can't really do one without the other.

Chris Williamson 19:15 What else does it mean to have a champion mentality to you?

Chris Williamson 19:18 I know that you talk about this a lot.

Chris Bumstead 19:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 19:19 What are the principles that you rely on for that?

Chris Bumstead 19:22 Again, something that definitely elevated over time. I literally just put that on a shirt once because it sounded cool, and I was like, "Oh, fuck. Like, this, there's more to this." And I think the biggest thing was, originally it was, like, just winning, and it evolved into just, like, a no quit mentality. It's accepting these fears I have, this doubt I have, this, everything that goes through my mind. But regardless of that, not quitting and not giving up on myself. No matter how hard is the time or what I'm going through and whatever shit I feel, it's, I'm gonna still put in the same work regardless of how I feel. And that's a champion mentality, because a champion's not controlled by their outside circumstances, they're, they control their own mind inside and how they act, and then the world goes on around them. There's a huge aspect of that. And I'm also now leaning into, I really think, like, greatness and champions not only elevate themselves, but the people around them. And I think it's, you are put into a position where you can help other, your l- close people around you, people who follow you, people who look up to you, whatever it might be, anyone in your life, you're in a position now of greatness where you can elevate others up to a higher level. And being able to inspire them, bring them up to be better people, is part of what makes you great, rather than just this selfish act of being you, being the best for yourself.

Chris Williamson 20:33 Why is it important to not let anyone hear you complain? I've heard you talk about this.

Chris Bumstead 20:40 It's more so, that's a quote I t- took, that was an old quote. (laughs) I think I've accepted that one a little bit more, but it's more so just not living in the, in the negativity. You know, life's gonna get suck, but the more you focus your perception on it, you know, the way you see the world is what the world is. If I choose to be like, "You know, today sucks. I'm tired. I don't wanna do cardio. I'm fucking two weeks out eating 1,500 calories. Like, this sucks." If that's what I'm talking about, that's all I'm gonna live in. I'm gonna be like, "Bodybuilding sucks. Prep sucks. Why do I do this?" But if I'm like, "This suffering is literally what's gonna make me great, and it's gonna bring me that amazing moment on stage, and all these memories of everything, and this, like, it's pushing me to these limits that I know make me feel proud of myself and all these things." If I focus more on the positive side of things, I'm going to enjoy the reality regardless of the change. The circumstances can be the exact same, but your perception changes everything about how you feel about it. And I think a lot of people who are successful or who are bodybuilders usually kinda tap out because they make it seem like this miserable thing. Like, "Oh, fuck, I have to start dieting. Oh, I gotta do cardio." And then you're just, like, complaining about it, and why would you wanna do anything you complain about every day?

Chris Williamson 21:45 Hmm.

Chris Bumstead 21:45 Rather than understanding that the choice and the beautiful things that come from it are what you should be focusing on and lead some more progressive growth.

Chris Williamson 21:53 Well, I mean, think about any champion that you imagine in your mind. Do they complain? Like, is, is a champion the person that complains?

Chris Bumstead 22:01 Yeah. No.

Chris Williamson 22:03 There's a guy called Josh Waitzkin. He was the guy that the film Seeking Bobby Fischer was written about, so he was a chess prodigy at a young age.

Chris Bumstead 22:12 Okay.

Chris Williamson 22:12 And he decided to just abscond che- He was seen as the new American phenom, right?

Chris Bumstead 22:19 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 22:19 Wonder kid, absolute beast as a child, and he gets basically to the top of the game of chess and then decides to leave. He goes into Chinese push hands. It's like, like fighting tai chi, kind of.

Chris Bumstead 22:31 Okay, yeah.

Chris Williamson 22:31 Gets to the top of that sport and then exits again.

Chris Bumstead 22:34 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 22:34 Like, you can't contact him on the internet. He doesn't have a website. But this guy's a savant.

Chris Bumstead 22:38 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 22:39 And he did an episode with Tim Ferriss, and he was talking to Tim about the way that him and his son reframe the weather, and he was saying that, uh, a lot of parents will say to their, uh, son or daughter, uh, "We can't go outside to play today because it's raining. Isn't it a shame that we can't go outside to play because it's raining?" Which puts all of the power outside.

Chris Bumstead 22:59 Into the weather, yeah.

Chris Williamson 22:59 Correct. All of the power is outside. So him, him and his son have worked very hard on saying things like, "What a beautiful day. It's raining outside. We should go outside and play in the rain."

Chris Bumstead 23:08 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 23:08 And I think that there's so much, uh, wonderful insight in that reframe that he's giving.

Chris Bumstead 23:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 23:14 And i- it seems like it's the same-

Chris Bumstead 23:16 Definitely, yeah. And there's (clears throat) one example. I don't really talk about it 'cause it sounds a little fucked up to say, but when I was young, I used to always look at the clock and see 9/11. I don't know why.

Chris Williamson 23:25 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 23:25 But I would look at it, and it would say 9/11, and I would be like, "Fuck, like, something bad's gonna happen." So, e- and I would worry like that. I'm like, and I was a little kid at the time. And I don't know if it was just, like, manifesting it, but I would, like, every day for a while, I'd look at the clock, and that would be the time. And then when I was growing up, I was like, instead of, like, constantly living and, like, thinking this is bad, why don't I switch that? That kid, something horrible happened on that date, and I'm like, terribly grieving of all the people, and that's horrible, but then-

Chris Williamson 23:49 Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. This was after 9/11?

Chris Bumstead 23:51 This was after 9/11, yeah.

Chris Williamson 23:52 I thought you were talking about you had some premonition-

Chris Bumstead 23:55 Oh, no, I'm not that old.

Chris Williamson 23:57 Fuck. Uh, yeah, you would've been, what, like six when it happened or something?

Chris Bumstead 23:59 Like six, yeah. Probably a little after that.

Chris Williamson 24:00 Yeah, I don't know, I thought you were, I thought you were, like, the child from the fucking Fifth Element or whatever it is.

Chris Bumstead 24:04 (laughs) No, no, no.

Chris Williamson 24:05 Do you know what I mean?

Chris Bumstead 24:05 I wish, actually no, I'm glad I cannot read the future. I would never want that.

Chris Williamson 24:08 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 24:09 But yeah, anyways, it was, instead of me fearing the number now every time I see it, 'cause I still see it all the time, it was like, okay, like, people died for this, but like our country is still, like, standing, people are still strong. Instead of now making them death and making, ruining my day, why don't I see it as good luck, you know? This is like a good luck moment. So for me, like, I'm on the right path. Like, people see 11:11, I see this, and this means I'm just moving in the right direction, and-

Chris Williamson 24:29 9/11 is a good, good luck moment for you.

Chris Bumstead 24:31 If you choose for it to be.

Chris Williamson 24:32 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 24:32 It's if you, it's your perception.

Chris Williamson 24:34 Okay, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 24:34 And now I see it, I'm like, "Fuck yeah, we're on track. Let's go."

Chris Williamson 24:36 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 24:36 And instead of me being like, "Something gonna happen," I feel better about it. It's just reframing your mind, you know?

Chris Williamson 24:41 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 24:41 And I'm not trying to, like, put anything positive on what happened because it was horrible, but ...

Chris Williamson 24:45 I know what you mean.

Chris Bumstead 24:46 Trying not to fuck up my own mind, you know?

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Chris Williamson 25:44 You mentioned it earlier on, six weeks out from the Olympia, you were on the bathroom floor crying.

Chris Bumstead 25:49 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 25:50 Can you take me through the story of that day, where your mind was at, what life was like at that time, and sort of what the texture of your own existence was like that led up to that point?

Chris Bumstead 26:00 Yeah, for sure. (sighs) I mean, there's part of it I actually can't touch on. It's just too private. But it was Olympia, I'd been prepping for weeks, lot going on in my life. Something happened within my family that was really stressful that I'm not gonna touch on, but it wa- greatly impacting us going forward and causing a lot of stress and anxiety in myself and my whole family. And we had just moved to Florida, all this shit going on, still fears about my health, and I had gotten ... A sign of my health going wrong is inflammation in my shins, I get edema. And I started to get that a little bit.

Chris Williamson 26:30 Fat shins.

Chris Bumstead 26:31 Fat shins?

Chris Williamson 26:32 Fat shins, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 26:33 Cankles.

Chris Williamson 26:33 Fat shins, ankles, right. Okay.

Chris Bumstead 26:34 Yeah. (laughs) They're not quite cankles but they're ... just my shins get fat, you know?

Chris Williamson 26:36 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 26:37 So I'm getting this edema and i- and all this personal stuff on the side and it was just ... I didn't speak about anything. It was just like, "Okay, wake up, do cardio, you know, go to the gym, go to work, do this, do that, just don't think about it, put it down, push it down, push it ..." And I kept doing that. And then I just ... I think b- with my fiance she was noticing I was little bit off and this is why, like, having good people around you is fucking everything when you have, like, a stressful life. And she just knew something was off and she's like, "H- are you good? Like, how are you doing?" I'm like, "I'm good." She asked me again, she's like, "Are you good?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm okay." Like, she's like ... And then I was, like, in the bathroom, she came in and she's like, "Are you okay?" I'm like, "Yeah." And she asked me one more time, she's like, "Are you ... like, look at me. Are you okay?" And I just started bawling and I had no idea. I didn't know I was that stressed out, I just was, like, numb. And I just, poof, started bawling, like hit the floor, I was just sobbing. I was just like, "I just feel like the world's crashing in on me right now. I feel like all this shit's going on externally and I'm just trying to focus on the Olympia. I have won two, I have to be better. I'm getting so close, I feel behind. Like, all this shit's going on, now I have this business, all this chaos going on in my life and I just, like, I don't know if I can handle this." And she's just like, "Yeah. Fuck yeah. Like, of course you feel like that." Like, no shit. And she's like, "I don't know why, like, you can share this with me. Like, the world is on your shoulders. You're fucking stressed out right now and it should be. This is a b- a lot of opportunity in front of you, and if you wanna quit you can but I know you and I know you won't. And right now, j- you just need to sit in this, cry, let it out, I'm here with you. But I know you're gonna get out from this. You're gonna go to the gym, you're gonna kill your workout, you're gonna wake up and you're gonna keep doing that. But this is a normal part of what you're going through." This is ... h- she was literally like, "You don't think Michael Jordan ever broke down and felt like he couldn't handle the stress that was on him b- like, building the NBA into what it was? N- not even just his team." I was like, "Fuck, like, yeah. He didn't talk about it, though." And she was like, "Well, fuck yeah, like, none of them knew how to ... No men know how to talk about their emotions properly." And it was just f-... like, it just, she just, like, built this confidence in me. I was just like, "Fuck yeah, of course, like, this is a huge pressure, there's a lot going on and I'm stressed. What's wrong with that? I'm not gonna let it control me but I'm allowed to feel this moment right now." And that was just, like, wow, (laughs) you know? Like, I can lean on people, people are there to help me, I can share how I feel, and someone's gonna actually make me feel better. 'Cause my whole life it was just, "Bottle everything up, you can handle it all by yourself. You know you're a man, you can handle this shit." And I was just like, "No, you know? Like, I'm allowed to feel, but who I am is not gonna be controlled by these feelings." So, it was just a huge moment, um, in, uh, in our relationship, too. You know? Like, I'm s- ... everyone ends up with a family, alone. Like, I have stress f- h- having to provide for a family is, like, the ultimate, and the men who feel like they have to provide and, like, the world is on their shoulders, they don't understand that, like, their wife and their family wants to help them.

Chris Williamson 29:10 Mmm.

Chris Bumstead 29:11 Like, they might not make it easier but, like, they'll get under that weight with you and they'll hold that with you. And it's not a burden to them, 'cause I always felt like asking for help would make me a burden. I'd be like, "I'm just gonna make someone else's life harder, so, like, they're stressed out over there, I don't wanna add to that, I'm just gonna be okay over here."

Chris Williamson 29:25 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 29:25 But it actually makes them feel close to you, it makes them ... it gives them purpose.

Chris Williamson 29:28 People want to be wanted in that regard.

Chris Bumstead 29:29 Oh, my God, yeah. You ask someone for help, they're like, "Fuck yeah, like, I feel good about myself today 'cause I helped this person." And it, it really brought our relationship closer in that moment, it made her feel like I just helped him in this part where he said he can do it all by himself all the time. And now, uh, like, I'm like, "Fuck yeah, like, I really needed that." And it was a really important moment for my personal growth, champion growth, relationship growth.

Chris Williamson 29:50 There's a, a meme at the moment of this sort of lone wolf sigma male guy that's making great things happen on his own.

Chris Bumstead 29:58 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:00 I'm pretty sure that you are the footage that's used over the top a l- of a lot of these sigma...

Chris Bumstead 30:05 Oh, really? (laughs)

Chris Williamson 30:05 ... man memes in any case.

Chris Bumstead 30:06 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 30:07 Could you do this on your own?

Chris Bumstead 30:09 Fuck no. No, none of it. I couldn't do my YouTube without Calvin, I couldn't have started my businesses without Maddi, I couldn't be doing RAW Supplements without Dom and Matt, who are my partners in that. I wouldn't be the man who I am without my dad. I wouldn't be able to have gotten through my stress as a teenager without my sister. I wouldn't have gotten through the last four Olympias without Courtney. Like, it's just ... Like, I almost get emotional thinking about it. But when I, like, reflect back on, like, what I'm most grateful for, it's always the people in my life and I'm so fucking lucky. It's, like, crazy. Like, the people I have in my life for everything and the relationships I, like, built mean the world to me. And I literally (laughs) will, like, cry sometimes by myself, like, doing, like, a gratitude reflection or something. But it's, it's ... Relationships in my life are everything and I just, I know I wouldn't be where I am without it, and I would never be the one to think I could do it all by myself.

Chris Williamson 30:58 Wasn't there a story of your parents waiting in line to get your autograph-

Chris Bumstead 31:02 Yeah, yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 31:03 ... one time?

Chris Bumstead 31:03 They've been to every Olympia and they go to the athlete meet-and-greet and they waited for, like, an hour in line or something.

Chris Williamson 31:08 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 31:08 I was like, "What the fuck are you doing, Mom?" And they're like, "We don't wanna bother you, we just want a picture." I'm like, "You're fucking crazy."

Chris Williamson 31:14 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 31:14 Like, "You have VIP, you can come backstage, you can do whatever you want here."

Chris Williamson 31:17 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 31:17 They're just ... And that's, like, that's that humility that they raised in me though, you know? They never expect anything and they're just always quietly there in the background to support me.

Chris Williamson 31:24 I wonder whether part of that humility is maybe where, uh, you not wanting to lean on other people comes from.

Chris Bumstead 31:32 I, I, I do think it's part of it, for sure. And I mean, my dad is still, like, my number one role model, but he didn't ask for help.

Chris Williamson 31:40 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 31:40 Even if he wanted to do something with me, he wouldn't... Like, building a fence, uh, you'd have to be like, "Hey Dad, do you want me to help?" And he would, like, love that, but he wouldn't have asked. You know? He... Like, all this sh-... Like, no matter what my family was going through, Dad was just, like, there, standing up straight.

Chris Williamson 31:55 Such a, like, classic boomer male parent philosophy, isn't it? (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 31:57 If he's gotta clean, if he's gotta get the food, do the work, all of it, he had it, and I'm like, "How the fuck did you do that for so long?" And-

Chris Williamson 32:02 Have you ever asked him about it?

Chris Bumstead 32:03 I have, and now that I've gotten to this age, I've, like, gone to him, and I'm like, "Do you ever, like, just feel like fucking exploding and just like stressed?" And he's like, "Not really, no." (laughs) And I'm like, "What the fuck, Dad?"

Chris Williamson 32:14 They made him different, man. They made him different in the '60s.

Chris Bumstead 32:16 He was built different, yeah.

Chris Williamson 32:17 Jesus Christ.

Chris Bumstead 32:17 And he comes from a family that was very resilient too, from a small town. You know, working class for other generations, and he's just like, he's a beast. But I had to really learn that that's not normal. That's not me, and I had to accept that. But it was... That's what was definitely part of the journey, so.

Chris Williamson 32:33 I think that's definitely... Trying to have too much of a prescription-

Chris Bumstead 32:37 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 32:37 ... about how you're supposed to go about things-

Chris Bumstead 32:38 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 32:38 Oh, well this is the way that men are supposed to be. Like, on average, there are ways that men and women are, and there are sex differences between the two of us, and there are ways that men from Canada or men from Britain will different, et cetera, et cetera-

Chris Bumstead 32:50 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 32:50 People from different classes, people that were born at different times. But I think that you're a really good role model for somebody who has a particular programming, and as opposed to trying to retrofit you into some mold that isn't you.

Chris Bumstead 33:05 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 33:05 When you did that, that was when you found friction.

Chris Bumstead 33:07 Yeah, exactly.

Chris Williamson 33:08 And that was when there was incongruence, and that's when you weren't able to enjoy things-

Chris Bumstead 33:11 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 33:12 ... because you weren't able to fully embody all of this stuff.

Chris Bumstead 33:14 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 33:14 And also, it seems like a big part of it is finding a partner who's prepared to see vulnerability as a strength rather than a weakness.

Chris Bumstead 33:19 For sure, yeah. But she's also seen both sides. She's seen, like, the utmost resilience of what I've been through, and like, the f- she's like, "I don't know." She's like, "Something's gonna happen to you this year," 'cause something happens every year. "But it's probably not gonna affect you." She's like, "It'll stress you out, but you're still gonna win the Olympia because I know y- I know you can do it," 'cause I've shown her that proof, you know?

Chris Williamson 33:37 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 33:37 I've shown her that, and now I've also shown the emotional side, and she's like, "Okay, yeah. He's gonna fucking break down and cry in front of me, but he's gonna get up tomorrow and get back to work." So it's like, it's that yin and yang of being able to, like, complement the masculine with the feminine and intertwine it in the right balance that whatever works for you without kinda holding you back. And that's honestly part of the... I mean, I could have a thousand bullet points on a champion mentality, but I used to look up to people, and I still do, like Michael Jordan. But that's not fucking me. That's not how I c- gonna be a champion forever. He wanted to kill everyone and fucking took stuff personally, everything with a battle to the death of being the best.

Chris Williamson 34:12 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 34:12 And like, I don't feel like that, but that's okay. I can still be a cham-... There's no rules to being a champion. You know, you make... The champion makes his own rules and rides out the wave like that.

Chris Williamson 34:21 I like that. Did you watch the new Arnold

Chris Williamson 34:23 documentary, talking about champions?

Chris Bumstead 34:24 I haven't yet, no.

Chris Williamson 34:24 Wow. I mean he's... It, it, it's very interesting, especially 'cause you'll have seen Pumping Iron-

Chris Bumstead 34:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:30 ... I'm gonna guess. So, um, I probably haven't watched that for about 10 years now, but, um, reflecting on that era of, not only bodybuilding, but America in general-

Chris Bumstead 34:39 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 34:39 ... it's so romanticized.

Chris Bumstead 34:41 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:41 Like it's so cool. I told one of my friends this. We were driving from Austin to Houston to go to a bachelor party, and as I was going past, it's just endless freeways and huge factories with flags that are 100 feet in the air, and the flag's 40 feet high-

Chris Bumstead 34:56 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 34:57 ... and it's slowly waving. It's a pretty... You know, it's not a country that I even, like-

Chris Bumstead 35:01 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:01 ... I, I'm from, but it's pretty patriotic, and you think-

Chris Bumstead 35:03 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:03 ... "Well, that's cool." But it made me nostalgic for an era that feels like it's almost sort of fallen away. And watching, um, the Arnold doc really reminded me of that sort of unbounded, blue sky vision that everybody had-

Chris Bumstead 35:18 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 35:18 ... and it was pretty fucking cool. But for the people who have seen the Arnold stuff and are maybe less familiar with what's happening in your world of bodybuilding at the moment, what are the differences between Arnold's era and yours now in classic physique?

Chris Bumstead 35:32 Like physically?

Chris Williamson 35:33 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 35:33 Essentially? I mean, obviously, you look back at sports too, everything progresses over time. We get more efficient with nutrition, with dieting, with PEDs, with rest, with recovery. Everything just gets more efficient, and everything excels, and you push limits further and further. So now, I mean, open bodybuilding is just, you look at it, and you don't even question that they're even the same sport pretty much.

Chris Williamson 35:54 The open class is no limitation.

Chris Bumstead 35:56 The open class is no weight limits.

Chris Williamson 35:57 Yep.

Chris Bumstead 35:57 Dudes are on stage at 300 pounds, like three percent body fat, just fucking monsters. Like huge, stuff you can't even fathom. Like, when I see them in person still, I'm like, "Wow, that's a real person." Which is insane. But back in, back in the Arnold days, it was purely like, it was bigger upper bodies. Legs weren't massive. You weren't shredded. It was more about being full and round and just, like, aesthetic, and which is what classic physique was brought in for. But even still, the contrast classic physique versus, like, the Arnold era, it's way leaner now. It's still, it's getting to just as lean as the open bodybuilders. It's like shredded glutes. You know, your ass is just striated at the end of the day. Feathered quads. Just looks like you have no body fat on you, and probably, probably about the same weight. I think Arnold was 240 on stage approximately, and my weight cap is 240. I'm about 239 when I weigh in. So we're about the same weight, just like now it's required to be a lot less body fat.

Chris Williamson 36:49 So if you put, uh, Arnold and Serge Nubret, uh, on stage now, they would look aesthetically pleasing, but their condition would be significantly different-

Chris Bumstead 37:03 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 37:03 ... to the guys that are up there now, you think?

Chris Bumstead 37:04 Yeah. They would be... Yeah, it wouldn't be the same. But what would be interesting is if you could put Arnold to be born in 1990 and then come up in this time.

Chris Williamson 37:12 Those genetics.

Chris Bumstead 37:13 And those... With all the stuff now, what would he look like? Serge Nubret would be a even bigger freak. Arnold's the GOAT 'cause he did it first, but I think Serge Nubret would be, like, insane to see in our generation.

Chris Williamson 37:24 Is there a part of you that wishes... Obviously you'd have to... The family would have to come back and the missus and all of that stuff. But is there a part of you that wishes that you could've had a crack during the golden era as well?

Chris Bumstead 37:35 No, I've never really thought of that, honestly. I really think this arrow right now is just perfectly, like, where I'm meant to be, and obviously it's been working out (laughs) pretty fucking great so far. So I don't tempt fate with that, I'm just grateful for where I'm at.

Chris Williamson 37:49 I read a story that you bought an inversion table.

Chris Bumstead 37:52 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 37:53 Is this true?

Chris Bumstead 37:54 I d- I did, but it came in... It came with is a 100, like, page pamphlet, and, like, 500, like, instructions to put it together, and I never put it together.

Chris Williamson 38:04 Right. So there's a story that says you bought an inversion table so that you could make yourself a quarter of an inch taller so that you could get an extra 10 pounds weight limit in your category.

Chris Bumstead 38:13 I tried. Yeah, I did. But I didn't put it together. I went to a chiropractor consistently, and they have a machine-

Chris Williamson 38:18 (laughs) I was gonna ask you about the story.

Chris Bumstead 38:18 ... that stretches your spine.

Chris Williamson 38:19 Is that not called-

Chris Bumstead 38:20 They have a machine that just pulls you.

Chris Williamson 38:20 Is that not just a medieval rack? Is that not a torture thing? Like they-

Chris Bumstead 38:24 It looks like it.

Chris Williamson 38:24 ... you've got a peasant with one of those floppy caps on-

Chris Bumstead 38:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 38:26 ... like, "Here we are m'lord."

Chris Bumstead 38:28 It's actually more like-

Chris Williamson 38:28 "We'll get you one inch taller."

Chris Bumstead 38:29 (laughs) Literally, yeah, it looks more like Frankenstein. You, like, sit in this machine, like, upright, and then it tilts you down, and they have a thing around your waist that just pulls your spine.

Chris Williamson 38:38 Right.

Chris Bumstead 38:38 And I did that for a while, but I'm, like, I'm just over 6'1", so I'd have to gain a full inch to be over 6'2". So I'm like-

Chris Williamson 38:44 Wow.

Chris Bumstead 38:44 ... it w- I would never do it, but I also don't want to shrink. So I, I've definitely tried a few things. I hang from bars all the time to elongate my spine. It's also just good for your spine. But yes, classic physique is just a battle to be taller, essentially, to make your weight.

Chris Williamson 38:57 I've seen a bunch of rumors on the internet saying that if the timing was right you would roll straight from a classic physique show, potentially into an open show.

Chris Bumstead 39:06 Definitely thought about it, yeah.

Chris Williamson 39:07 Have you really?

Chris Bumstead 39:08 I have y- But there's no open shows after the Olympia. There's, like, one in Japan. But I would want to do, like, a, a decent show. I'd rather stack up beside, like, a top 10 Olympian and see, like, how that would go.

Chris Williamson 39:17 How do you think you'd get on?

Chris Bumstead 39:20 It depends on the show. If you were to put me in the Olympia... If you put me in Olympia the way I look in classic right now, I don't think I would do top, I would hit the top 10. But I think if I was able to, like, be a little bit less leaner and fuller, and, like... 'Cause I always have to diet down about five pounds of muscle just to make my weight. So if I were able to be, like, full as fuck... Like, sometimes some of my check-in pictures when I'm four weeks out and I have a high carb day, I'm like, "I'm gonna bodybuilder now. This is crazy." I would love to just see what this looks like on stage. I think I could be, like, top... Give me a year and I think I could be top 15 in, like, Olympia. But-

Chris Williamson 39:52 Is there no, there's no part of you that's like, "Fuck, I should give that a crack."

Chris Bumstead 39:57 No more than just that, like, thes- this banter, like-

Chris Williamson 39:59 Yeah, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 39:59 ... I just really, truly, like, I love classic physique, and I love what it, like, pushes, what it inspires people to be more so than, like... When I was young, I literally was about to quit bodybuilding in 2016 because there w- I turned pro, and I was like, "I either have to be 300 pounds or go down to men's physique." And I wasn't wearing board shorts, and I wasn't getting to 300 pounds, so I was gonna retire. But then literally that year classic physique came out, and I was like, "This is for me. I'll give it a shot." And then I just ran with it.

Chris Williamson 40:24 Yeah, it seems so perfect in terms of the timing for you, in terms of being able to find a sport that you actually enjoyed-

Chris Bumstead 40:30 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 40:30 ... that wasn't gonna make you go too freaky. So what would you need to do... Let's say that you did go across to open, what would you have to do to your physique in order to be able to, uh, improve?

Chris Bumstead 40:41 A lot of it would be... So right now I give my body a lot of rest after the Olympia. I compete once a year and I take, like, three months off the Olympia. And then coming back it's just, like, relearning proper training patterns, perfecting my form, like, making sure I'm healthy. And so if I were to really want to do the open, I'd have to, like, take, like, a week off the rest and then get back to work, hold all that weight and just start growing for a full eight month. And I don't push food hard right now. I go, like, I'll cycle my calories. If I start to get too fat, I'm like, "Oh, I gotta pull it back down." I would just have to, like, lean into the fat, put on a little ch- I wouldn't be, like, fat fat, but I like being lean consistently, lean enough so I feel good. I'd have to put on a lot of weight and just eat consistently. My training would be the exact same. It would be mainly food, a little bit more of PDs of course, but just kinda dabbling around that. I think I could do it with just food though.

Chris Williamson 41:28 That would be fucking great, man.

Chris Bumstead 41:29 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 41:29 I would love to see. It's such a shame that you can't do that. There's, um, the 100 mile record for endurance racing, running-

Chris Bumstead 41:37 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 41:37 ... and the 24 hour record, for a while when it was still a relatively new title, were, uh, often broken together.

Chris Bumstead 41:44 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 41:44 'Cause I think it takes... I might be wrong. Let's say it takes like, uh, 14 hours or 12 hours or something to get 100, and then people would just continue that pace or try and continue that pace-

Chris Bumstead 41:56 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 41:56 ... and break the 24. Zach Bitter, this guy from Austin, did it. He broke both records in one. It'd be so fucking cool for somebody to, like, break through one and then go and-

Chris Bumstead 42:06 And go onto the next.

Chris Williamson 42:06 ... place a, a-

Chris Bumstead 42:07 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 42:07 ... a really great show.

Chris Bumstead 42:09 I don't even think... Uh, like, like I said, if they let me do both in the same day, it wouldn't be good 'cause I'm too sucked down to mid-weight.

Chris Williamson 42:15 Yes, yes.

Chris Bumstead 42:15 So I think I would look pretty small up there.

Chris Williamson 42:16 What body fat do you stuff on stage a- You got any idea? You ever been in a DEXA?

Chris Bumstead 42:20 I haven't, no. I don't even try and guess because everyone on the internet's like, "Oh."

Chris Williamson 42:23 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 42:23 Ronnie Coleman came out and said he was, like, 0% or something.

Chris Williamson 42:26 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 42:26 And people were like, "I don't think that's possible." If I had to guess, I think it would be like 4. I think he was just fucking around, but people took it seriously.

Chris Williamson 42:33 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 42:33 But I think I would be around 4 or 5 if I had to, like, be conservative.

Chris Williamson 42:37 Mm. And to get into the open category you'd have to... You would be able to lose a tiny bit of condition?

Chris Bumstead 42:44 Yeah, a little bit, yeah. My sh- like, 'cause my structure, it would kind of make up for my conditioning, I think.

Chris Williamson 42:49 We'll get back to talking to Chris in one minute, but first I need to tell you about LMNT. (box thudding) (tape rewinding) I'm gonna look there, you're gonna throw it, and I'm just gonna catch it 'cause I'm a (beep) ... I'm an, I'm epic. Right. (tape rewinding) We'll get back to talking to Chris in one minute, but first I need to tell you about LMNT. (box thudding) LMNT is a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, with no gluten, no coloring, no artificial ingredients, or any other BS. It is the way that I have started my morning every single day for over three years now. Video guy Dean uses it. And it is an awesome, beautiful, very enjoyable drink. Proper hydration plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue whilst optimizing brain health and regulating appetite. Best of all, they've got a no BS, no questions asked refund policy with unlimited duration. So you can buy it, and if you do not like it for any reason, you can get your money back and you don't even need to return the box. That's how confident they are that you'll love it. Head to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom to get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with any purchase. That's drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom.Talk

Chris Williamson 43:52 to me about your morning routine. What does that look like, typically?

Chris Bumstead 43:56 (sighs) It depends on the time of year, really.

Chris Williamson 43:58 Okay, so let's say off-season and prep.

Chris Bumstead 44:01 Off-season, I wake up and I usually just do a bit of light cardio. Just-

Chris Williamson 44:05 What sort of time do you typically get up?

Chris Bumstead 44:07 (sighs) It's been brutal lately. I've been in different time zones for the last six months, so it's just whatever time zone I'm on.

Chris Williamson 44:12 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 44:13 But lately, I've just been not putting an alarm, and I've been waking up at about 7:30, 8:00 or so, lately, and I normally wake up and I just do, like, a little bit of cardio, just, like, 20 minutes, just to make sure my appetite's going. And then I have a cold plunge. I usually dip my legs in there, at least, if not my full body, and just, like, or up to my waist, then shower, eat, go to work. Speaker 2: So-

Chris Williamson 44:31 What will you tend to have off-season? What will breakfast look like? (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 44:35 It, again, it varies. Consistently, I get sick of food really quick, especially breakfast foods, so-

Chris Williamson 44:39 Hmm.

Chris Bumstead 44:39 ... I usually don't like eating eggs when I'm eating a lot of food, so I normally just make a smoothie, and then I'll have, like, oatmeal, like, blended into the smoothie, and some, like, Ezekiel bread toast and almond butter.

Chris Williamson 44:48 Hmm. Okay, and then what about prep, which I'm guessing is significantly more dialed, like-

Chris Bumstead 44:52 Prep evolves, and, like, I just, I'm not trying to, like, I evolve, s- I'm very fluid. Like, I, my routines are like, "What time do you train?" Depends on the time of year. Like, it's just wherever I, I feel natural, I just kind of flow into that state-

Chris Williamson 45:04 Hmm.

Chris Bumstead 45:05 ... and do what I can, and I s- kind of thrive in that structure rather than really regimented. But in prep, I'll wake up in the morning, and I usually will, like, do, like, a breath work thing, 'cause I get sucked into that. And it's not even for, like, at first, I tried to do it for, like, mental, to, like, kinda, like, tap deep into my mind, and now it's just literally to oxygenate my body before, like, waking up and doing cardio, 'cause I realized if I did a little bit of breath work, and, like, just, like, you know, like, Wim Hof style?

Chris Williamson 45:30 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 45:30 Like, three rounds of 30 breaths, and a hold and exhale, repeat, three rounds in the morning, and then I went and did cardio, I didn't need caffeine, I was wide awake, and I could, like, blast through my cardio way easier, and I just felt way better.

Chris Williamson 45:41 Wow.

Chris Bumstead 45:41 And then after that, I'll usually sauna or cold tub, combine it. I'll always cold tub if I sauna, 'cause I like finishing with cold, and then cardio will be higher at that point, and then I'll go shower and eat. And the goal that I do in the mornings, it's nothing crazy, like, it's just simple as that, but I usually try and put my phone on airplane mode when I go to bed and not look at it until this shit's done.

Chris Williamson 46:02 Yeah, that's such a hack.

Chris Bumstead 46:03 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 46:03 Do you sleep... Well, if it's on airplane mode, it doesn't matter, but I'm gonna guess you sleep with your phone outside of your bedroom as well.

Chris Bumstead 46:08 Um, no, I still usually keep it, I use it as an alarm still, or I just have it in the corner of the room and it's on airplane mode, but I just don't check it.

Chris Williamson 46:14 It's basically a brick until-

Chris Bumstead 46:15 Exactly.

Chris Williamson 46:15 ... airplane mode gets turned off.

Chris Bumstead 46:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 46:17 Are you not concerned at all? There's a lot of talk on the internet about reducing inflammation through using cold plunge when you're trying to maximize hypertrophy.

Chris Bumstead 46:24 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 46:24 Is this something that you're not particularly worried about?

Chris Bumstead 46:27 I think there's a lot of, and again, I'm not the science guy, but I've looked into it too, and I never started doing it for purely recovery and hypertrophy. I started doing it because of my autoimmune and just overall systemic inflammation and health, and I just knew that it would be better for me to reduce my inflammation. And so I, what I looked into was, it was saying that immediately after a workout, when you're getting that, like, high inflammation response, which is we're sending blood and nutrients to the muscle to recover, that's when you wanna avoid it. So I'll typically, if I do, like, a long, like, a 10-minute session, that's on my rest day, but if I'm just doing it in the morning, I do it in the morning, and then I don't work out till later in the day, and I don't do it after I work out. So I have a full two meals, go to sleep, wake up in the morning, and I'll do it then, and I- it hasn't affected me at all. If anything, it's, it's helped my joints from being overly inflamed so I can continually train and push myself, so if I lose, like, 2% hypertrophy, but my joints feel better to train harder-

Chris Williamson 47:16 Hmm.

Chris Bumstead 47:17 ... to me, the outcome is just worth it.

Chris Williamson 47:18 It's a trade-off.

Chris Bumstead 47:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 47:20 Yeah, what about walks and stuff? Like, c-

Chris Bumstead 47:22 Like cardio?

Chris Williamson 47:23 Yeah, continuing to just get yourself moving, sunlight exposure, stuff like that.

Chris Bumstead 47:26 Yeah, f- I think, like, do I do it or do the real... I definitely do it more in prep, again. I definitely slack off more than I should in my off-season, but I do cardio in my off-season so that I can eat. I usually just do a treadmill in there. But when I'm in prep, I'll just, like, roam around outside a little bit after a meal just to make sure I'm digesting properly, and, uh, also to take my mind off life sometimes and just kinda relax.

Chris Williamson 47:47 Hmm.

Chris Bumstead 47:47 But I'm not too, like, crazy methodical with these things. I just make sure everything's on point, and then if my digestion ever goes to shit, that's when I start manipulating things. But I'm super consistent with my food, so normally, my digestion's pretty good.

Chris Williamson 47:59 Tell you what's crazy, have you ever worn a, a glucose monitor?

Chris Bumstead 48:02 I have not.

Chris Williamson 48:02 One of those things on the back of your arm? If you ever do that, and (latch clicking) it doesn't even need to be a particularly high-carb meal, but if you spike your glucose and then go on a walk, the difference is unbelievable.

Chris Bumstead 48:12 Really?

Chris Williamson 48:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just s- seems to mediate insulin sensitivity-

Chris Bumstead 48:16 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 48:16 ... so well.

Chris Bumstead 48:17 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 48:17 Um, and there's also muscles, I think, that cross basically across your stomach, that when you walk, that sort of contralateral movement, that actually helps, uh, digestion.

Chris Bumstead 48:28 Okay.

Chris Williamson 48:28 So yeah, walks after, um, after food. Stu Magill, the, uh, back pain specialist-

Chris Bumstead 48:33 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 48:33 ... is one guy that gave me that forever and ever-

Chris Bumstead 48:35 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 48:35 ... and ever ago, and, uh, yeah, trying to do that. That's one advantage of living near a park, you know?

Chris Bumstead 48:40 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 48:40 Or, or being in a house. The thing about-

Chris Bumstead 48:42 It's hard in Florida, though.

Chris Williamson 48:43 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 48:44 It'll be, like, 110 degrees and humid, so if you- if I'm in the office and I go take a walk outside, I'm coming back drenched in sweat.

Chris Williamson 48:49 Yeah, true. Might be good for the, uh, for the calorie burn, but that's one thing I was, I was talking to a couple of friends about, they moved into this awesome new apartment complex.

Chris Bumstead 48:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 48:57 But one of the things that you don't see is a price that you pay is if you do wanna go out for a walk, it's, like, five minutes.

Chris Bumstead 49:02 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:02 It's five minutes to get downstairs. And then-

Chris Bumstead 49:04 Well, if you take the stairs, that could be part of your walk.

Chris Williamson 49:06 Uh, yeah, the stairs are kind of lame though, aren't they? They're kinda tough.

Chris Bumstead 49:10 Yeah, but going downstairs is at least good for your knees, so...

Chris Williamson 49:12 True. What are you doing for knee health? Are you into the Kneesovertoes stuff at all?

Chris Bumstead 49:16 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:16 Have you gone to this?

Chris Bumstead 49:17 I, I, I dabbled in that. Honestly-

Chris Williamson 49:18 Dabbled?

Chris Bumstead 49:19 ... I downloaded the app for my dad 'cause he has knee issues, and then I don't think he used it, so I just started using it myself. And I just took some things that, like, I found I could put into my routine super easily, like walking backwards with a weight, and when I don't have, like, a sled, I'll do it on the treadmill turned off.

Chris Williamson 49:34 Yep.

Chris Bumstead 49:35 I'll just turn off the treadmill and push the tread.

Chris Williamson 49:37 Yep.

Chris Bumstead 49:37 I'll warm up like that, I go on the stairs, walk up it, turn around, walk backwards. I-

Chris Williamson 49:41 I've seen videos of you going backwards upstairs, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 49:42 Yeah, yeah. I train my, like, tibia rather than just my calves too, some band stuff, pushing my knee backwards. I've definitely implemented that, and it seems to be helping.

Chris Williamson 49:51 Okay, so if you only had 10 exercises

Chris Williamson 49:54 for the rest of time-

Chris Bumstead 49:55 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 49:55 ... that's all you have in your library (huffs) to stay as muscular as possible...Give me the list.

Chris Bumstead 50:01 So, the g- the goal is to be as muscular as possible?

Chris Williamson 50:03 Correct.

Chris Bumstead 50:03 If I were to... Let's say I'm competing and I have 10 exercises, or-

Chris Williamson 50:06 Sure.

Chris Bumstead 50:07 All right. Shit. (laughs) Sorry. I'm gonna have to count it on my hands. Um, squats.

Chris Williamson 50:13 Why?

Chris Bumstead 50:14 Just overall leg growth. They help glutes, quads, like, a large portion of the leg that ƒ’ing helps-

Chris Williamson 50:20 Barbell back squat?

Chris Bumstead 50:21 Barbell back squat.

Chris Williamson 50:21 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 50:22 Super simple. If it's my whole life, I might actually do Smith Machine squats, because it'll help my knees in a little bit, be a little bit easier.

Chris Williamson 50:29 Okay. Okay.

Chris Bumstead 50:29 More stability. And people hate me for that, but I love squatting on the Smith Machine.

Chris Williamson 50:32 All right.

Chris Bumstead 50:33 I get a lot of shit for that.

Chris Williamson 50:34 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 50:34 Um, deadlifts.

Chris Williamson 50:36 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 50:36 Just to get something that'll target the- my hamstrings, and so I don't have to take out another 10 of too... Something too hamstring-focused, and glute and back-focused. Um, pull-ups, so I can hit my back and biceps in one.

Chris Williamson 50:48 Overhand? Underhand?

Chris Bumstead 50:51 Neutral.

Chris Williamson 50:52 Oh, neutral grip?

Chris Bumstead 50:53 Neutral, probably, yeah.

Chris Williamson 50:54 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 50:54 It's a little bit more lat and biceps.

Chris Williamson 50:56 Yep. Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 50:56 Make sure my arms are going. Um, incline dumbbell press.

Chris Williamson 51:00 Uh-huh.

Chris Bumstead 51:01 I find incline's a little bit better on your shoulders.

Chris Williamson 51:03 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 51:03 So, if you're doing... It's the only exercise you can do, you won't fuck up your shoulders as much. And dumbbell, it'll just keep you a little bit more symmetrical.

Chris Williamson 51:09 Yeah, I love that. I've always loved that exercise. Wh- which is weird because, uh, incline barbell press is one of the most uncomfortable for my shoulders.

Chris Bumstead 51:16 Really?

Chris Williamson 51:17 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 51:17 But you can do dumbbell? Most people feel better with dumbbell because you can go in a position that's comfortable-

Chris Williamson 51:21 Shift around a little bit.

Chris Bumstead 51:21 ... for you, yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:22 Okay. How many is that? That's four.

Chris Bumstead 51:24 That's four, yeah.

Chris Williamson 51:24 Yeah. Six left.

Chris Bumstead 51:25 This is gonna be hard without, like... I'd, like, have to make a list of 20 to cut out. But, um...

Chris Williamson 51:30 The autism is put to one side for now. We're-

Chris Bumstead 51:32 Yeah. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 51:33 ... doing this in our heads together.

Chris Bumstead 51:34 Um, dumbbell shoulder press.

Chris Williamson 51:37 Uh-huh. Seated?

Chris Bumstead 51:38 Seated.

Chris Williamson 51:39 Yep.

Chris Bumstead 51:39 Dumbbell shoulder press. Yeah, I think that'll help your triceps and shoulders a lot. Um, maybe a c- a close-grip lat bench. Different part of the chest and triceps both getting hit there.

Chris Williamson 51:55 Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Four left.

Chris Bumstead 52:00 Uh, dumbbell curl, just something specific for the-

Chris Williamson 52:02 Brilliant. I'm so glad that was in there.

Chris Bumstead 52:03 'Cause, how do you want to live without doing fucking-

Chris Williamson 52:05 (laughs) Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 52:05 ... dumbbell curls for the rest of your life, you know?

Chris Williamson 52:05 Yeah, this doesn't even help your physique. I just need it for my mindset.

Chris Bumstead 52:07 Exactly, yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:08 With that, are you, uh, supinated? You... A- again, this is the only one that you're gonna get. Are you seated? Are you standing?

Chris Bumstead 52:15 Can't combine it. Uh, standing, supinated.

Chris Williamson 52:18 Okay. Good, good.

Chris Bumstead 52:19 Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:19 The go... The, the, the OG of dumbbell curls.

Chris Bumstead 52:22 Just OG, yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:23 Yeah. And it's gonna be-

Chris Bumstead 52:24 It's in the basics.

Chris Williamson 52:24 ... one arm at a time.

Chris Bumstead 52:24 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:24 It can't be both arms together. It's gotta be one arm at a time.

Chris Bumstead 52:27 One arm at a time, yeah.

Chris Williamson 52:27 Yeah. Good.

Chris Bumstead 52:27 Yeah, sticks to the basics.

Chris Williamson 52:28 Good stuff. Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 52:29 Um-

Chris Williamson 52:29 I think you've got three left.

Chris Bumstead 52:30 I have three left. Thinking of what part of the body I'm missing right now.

Chris Williamson 52:33 Calves, probably.

Chris Bumstead 52:37 Ah, fuck. Yeah, there's no calves in there.

Chris Williamson 52:39 Are you d-... Do you...

Chris Bumstead 52:40 I train-

Chris Williamson 52:40 Well, you're not gonna get it with anything else.

Chris Bumstead 52:43 A l- a little bit on a deadlift, but maybe I'll just do stairs on the side and not tell you about that.

Chris Williamson 52:48 Okay, fine. Okay, fine.

Chris Bumstead 52:49 (laughs) ƒ’ing walking up on my toes.

Chris Williamson 52:49 You've, you've still got three exercises. You only needed seven so far.

Chris Bumstead 52:51 Ah, damn. Did I say bent-over row?

Chris Williamson 52:54 No.

Chris Bumstead 52:54 Bent-over row.

Chris Williamson 52:56 Okay.

Chris Bumstead 52:56 It'll... That'll help, like, stability, the core as well.

Chris Williamson 52:59 Uh-huh.

Chris Bumstead 53:00 And then, like, lower back and obviously upper back.

Chris Williamson 53:02 Yeah, because the only back exercise that you've had so far is the pull-up.

Chris Bumstead 53:06 Deadlifts and pull-ups.

Chris Williamson 53:07 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 53:08 Bent-over rows.

Chris Williamson 53:08 Yeah. Okay, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 53:09 Yeah. Um, so I got two left?

Chris Williamson 53:11 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 53:12 Probably, like, a hanging leg raise, just to make sure your core is getting hit, you're not, like-

Chris Williamson 53:17 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 53:17 ... fucking up your back. And then... This is a tough one, I think. I'm trying to, like, focus on either-

Chris Williamson 53:27 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 53:27 ... lateral raises or, like, a overhead tricep extension, 'cause I haven't had a lot of, like-

Chris Williamson 53:31 Ooh.

Chris Bumstead 53:31 ... specific triceps. I would probably do lateral raises just to get some meaty delts over.

Chris Williamson 53:35 Fuck, yeah.

Chris Bumstead 53:36 Just do more of a close grip.

Chris Williamson 53:36 Well, you've got the close grip and you've got the, uh, incline press.

Chris Bumstead 53:40 Yeah. They'll get, uh...

Chris Williamson 53:41 So interesting. So, Ryan Terry, who I know that you've trained with before-

Chris Bumstead 53:44 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 53:44 ... I asked him the same question, and his ab exercise as well was hanging leg raises.

Chris Bumstead 53:48 Hanging leg raises?

Chris Williamson 53:49 Yeah. It seems to be the industry-insider fav- ab exercise of choice.

Chris Bumstead 53:54 I don't even know. I'm not the perfect person on that. I just... I always try and work on my lower abs-

Chris Williamson 53:59 Mm-hmm.

Chris Bumstead 53:59 ... because it's harder for me to contract those rather than upper, and that's usually when your stomach hangs out. And on bodybuilding stage, you don't want your, like, gut hanging out, essentially. What pulls it in is the lower part, and when you do a hanging leg raise or, like, lying leg raise, it hits that part more. And also, like, hanging from a bar is really good for your shoulders and spine, so you're kind of hitting two birds with one stone.

Chris Williamson 54:17 One of my friends, Alex, who basically has an unlimited budget, said that he'd been to every shoulder specialist on the planet. He's like, "I've spoken to every single person, all of the most expensive specialists in the world. The best thing that I've found is hanging from a bar." (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 54:30 Hanging from a bar.

Chris Williamson 54:30 Hanging from a fucking bar.

Chris Bumstead 54:31 It's crazy, yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:33 Yeah, it's wild. Uh, I think he does it... I think he ends up s- like, um, strapping up, uh, and just hanging from there for about 90 seconds a couple of times a day.

Chris Bumstead 54:43 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:43 I'd heard a rumor, I don't know whether you'd heard this, that because we'd spent so much time as, uh, primates swinging through the trees, that the way that our shoulders still articulates, like that position-

Chris Bumstead 54:54 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 54:55 ... is still one that's very comfortable to us.

Chris Bumstead 54:57 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 54:57 And I w- I'm gonna get torn apart by people who understand biomechanics-

Chris Bumstead 55:01 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:01 ... in, in the comments. But, um, there's supposed to be a little bit of truth to that, and it definitely feels nice. Hanging-

Chris Bumstead 55:06 For sure. I mean, even if you're standing in a doorway and you just, like, do this and you're, you're just chilling, like, you just feel better, you know?

Chris Williamson 55:12 What about your future CrossFit career? So, we've spoken about-

Chris Bumstead 55:14 Oh, boy.

Chris Williamson 55:14 ... what you've done, what you've done so far.

Chris Bumstead 55:15 (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:15 But before we started, you've said that you want to take up CrossFit once you've finished.

Chris Bumstead 55:18 Yeah, I mean, I just... I used to be very athletic when I was young. It's really what got me into bodybuilding. I just loved sports. I played, like, six of them when I was younger, and I would like to get back to that, like, form of feeling like I can run, I'm strong, I can do a lot of bodyweight exercises. I can train anywhere in the world, and just kind of, like, challenging my body in a new way, 'cause I'm obviously not gonna be hitting any PRs in the gym or being heavier than I've ever been than I am in my peak bodybuilding career. So, just finding a new goal to focus on. I might dabble in that. But it's more of, like, an athletic training that, like, you can call CrossFit. (laughs)

Chris Williamson 55:49 Okay. It's, um...It's so funny to think that the particular sport that you chose to go after actually has a load of restrictions on it. Like, it's very, very consistent, very repetitive-

Chris Bumstead 56:02 Mm-hmm.

Chris Williamson 56:03 ... by its nature, not a team sport. You know, there's a bunch of different things-

Chris Bumstead 56:06 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:06 ... that it constrains you from doing. You know, what do you weigh now? How- how heavy are you?

Chris Bumstead 56:10 About 262 right now, 260.

Chris Williamson 56:12 Right. You said that you could dunk a year ago, though-

Chris Bumstead 56:14 I could, yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:14 ... at 260.

Chris Bumstead 56:15 I got a video of it, so I'm not lying, yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:17 No way. Did you put it online?

Chris Bumstead 56:18 It is online, yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:19 Fuck, yeah. Uh, but yeah, my point being that a, a game of pickup, you know, a 30-minute game of pickup basketball would probably be not very good for your knees.

Chris Bumstead 56:26 No, I, I did it last year. I was telling you that, yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:29 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 56:29 I went and played with a bunch of the guys here. We played, probably played for almost an hour, it was pretty long, and I could not walk for a week. Like, it was just inflammation and pain. I was just sitting in the ice bath.

Chris Williamson 56:38 So bizarre, right? Because you think athlete, professional athlete. What do you do for a, a living? Uh, uh, like fitness things.

Chris Bumstead 56:46 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:47 It's like, "Agh."

Chris Bumstead 56:47 So, people often don't call bodybuilders athletes, so-

Chris Williamson 56:49 Yeah, but I think it's-

Chris Bumstead 56:50 ... you know, it's like, uh, do you or do you not?

Chris Williamson 56:50 ... not that fitness either (laughs) .

Chris Bumstead 56:52 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 56:52 And you also said that after your last CrossFit workout, you'd had a cough for, like, 10 days afterward.

Chris Bumstead 56:56 Yeah. There's a, a ... I can't remember what they call it. There's a specific person they named the cough after.

Chris Williamson 57:01 Francoff.

Chris Bumstead 57:02 Francoff, yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:03 Yeah.

Chris Bumstead 57:03 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:03 Did you do Fran? Is that the workout?

Chris Bumstead 57:05 I don't think so.

Chris Williamson 57:06 Oh, okay. But you got Francoff.

Chris Bumstead 57:06 But I've probably heard, yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:07 Got Francoff from, like, a really gentle workout.

Chris Bumstead 57:09 Francoff from, like, walking on the treadmill, you know?

Chris Williamson 57:10 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 57:10 Yeah (laughs) . No, not that bad.

Chris Williamson 57:13 Yeah. It's thinking about what people want to do once they retire, so to speak.

Chris Bumstead 57:19 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:19 Um, and the fact that you've had all of these different physical outlets that have been like, "I can't do that, and I better not do that."

Chris Bumstead 57:26 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:26 And then snowboarding, I can only go twice a year in case, what if I rupture an ACL, that's not gonna be very good for my-

Chris Bumstead 57:32 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 57:32 Yeah. So, y- you are very much constrained with this. In other news, this episode is brought to you by a product I have used every single day for over three years now, and that is AG1. It's a foundational nutrition supplement that covers whole body health, helps with my digestion, it helps with my energy. It is the staple to my supplement regime, and it's the same for Dr. Andrew Huberman, Joe Rogan, Lex Friedman, Tim Ferriss. All of them have been using it for a very long time, and that's because they invest in the highest quality ingredients, and they've upgraded the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research has come in. Also, there is a 90-day money-back guarantee, so you can buy it and try it for 89 days, and if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. If you're looking for a simpler, effective investment for your health, try AG1. Get five free AG1 travel packs, plus a year's supply of vitamin D and that 90-day money-back guarantee by going to drinkag1.com/wisdom. That's drinkag1.com/wisdom. When it to your training, what's with the no shoes thing?

Chris Bumstead 58:37 It's just part of a ... I mean, there's a movement online, honestly, but I just discovered it by accident. I wore Converse my whole life up until I was, like, 20 years old, and I started to get bunions on my foot where, like, my toes were just, like, angled way far out to, like, outwards. And then my, the side of my foot started to really hurt. And then I was also getting really bad knee pain. And I was like, "What the fuck is wrong with my feet?" And I realized my feet don't fit in Converse. I have really wide feet. I'm a size 13, like, E, like super wide.

Chris Williamson 59:04 Flat feet.

Chris Bumstead 59:04 And I'm wearing the, the most narrow shoe you could fathom. So, I decided to just start taking them off and training barefoot. I started rocking, like, socks and Birkenstocks, which people used to roast me for, but now it's in style, so not ... I'm cool now, but-

Chris Williamson 59:16 Trendsetter.

Chris Bumstead 59:17 ... working out in the gym, it just felt better to, like... I was doing, like, toe exercises where I would spread my toes. I was wearing toe spacers. And then just, the gym was just a place where I didn't have to wear shoes, so I could, like, train in socks. And I just felt better. And over time, I didn't do a whole lot of other things, a few other things, but my knees just started to feel better. My squat started to feel a little bit more natural.

Chris Williamson 59:35 Yeah. Have I seen footage of you walking on your treadmill in the morning in barefoot shoes as well?

Chris Bumstead 59:40 Yeah. Yeah, I've ordered, like ... I've had, like, I've had Vivos, Lems, Xero, and maybe one other, but I've tried, like, all of them.

Chris Williamson 59:48 What's your favorite? What have you finished on?

Chris Bumstead 59:50 I'm between the Xeros and Lems. Lems are more comfortable if you're wearing, if you're barefoot in them.

Chris Williamson 59:56 Hm.

Chris Bumstead 59:56 Or if you're not wearing socks.

Chris Williamson 59:57 Mm.

Chris Bumstead 59:57 Which I, uh, I feel like is the point of it, so I always wear barefoot.

Chris Williamson 1:00:00 Yeah. People are getting into this, man. Mark Bell's Power Project and Samer and all of those guys, when I went down there, everybody was in either barefoot-

Chris Bumstead 1:00:08 Yeah.

Chris Williamson 1:00:08 ... or some crazy ...

Chris Bumstead 1:00:09 It just sucks that they're so ugly (laughs) .

Chris Williamson 1:00:11 Yeah, they-

Chris Bumstead 1:00:12 I'm a big shoe guy. I have, like, a whole collection, but I'm just like, "Fuck, these things are ..." They're all, like, plastic and black-

Chris Williamson 1:00:17 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 1:00:18 ... and just, like, at least make a nice one, you know?

Chris Williamson 1:00:20 (laughs)

Chris Bumstead 1:00:20 That no one, no one has yet. There's an open market for that right now.

Chris Williamson 1:00:23 How

Chris Williamson 1:00:24 do you prioritize recovery and rest in your program? What is it that you're focusing on for the biggest winners?

Chris Bumstead 1:00:31 I mean, there's a huge avenue, but sleep is probably, like, the number one thing. And, and whether brain health, aging, or just, like, high performance, sleep is, like, one of the most important aspects anyone can have. You lose any bit of sleep than you're used to and your body just suffers more than you can even, like, understand. So, I think being super regimented on sleep, and that's why, like, when I'm in different time zones, I'm like, "I'm not setting an alarm." Some people believe you should create your circulating rhythm as fast as possible. I'm like, "No, I'm just gonna get eight hours no matter what." Like, "I'm tired, I'm just gonna sleep." So, I let myself just get at least eight hours of sleep, and I usually aim for nine, because I don't sleep through the whole night fully. But I think sleep has been absolutely huge. And honestly, at a point in my career when I was 21 and I started to get a more, bit more injuries and just, like, starting to feel like adrenal fatigue almost, I was, like, I was training, like, six, seven days a week for, like, three hours. I was like, "I feel like I need to tone this back a bit." And then I started training five days a week for three hours, and then I realized I had a little bit more progress. And then a year later, I was like, that was catching up to me. So, I'm like, "Okay, what if I train, like, three days on, one day off, but I'm only in the gym for, like, an hour and a half or two, max two hours, including warmup and stuff." And I just noticed as I was pulling away from that kind of, like, volume, essentially, I actually started to progress more and feel better. I started to feel like I was, like, going the reverse way of aging. So, allowing myself to have more time to recover actually made me stronger. Which I don't even... Even when I say that, I try and, like, pre-emphasize,