Modern WisdomDrugged In Colombia, Escaping Jail & Defeating UFC Wrestling - Craig Jones
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,003 words- 0:00 – 3:41
The First Craig Jones Invitational
- CWChris Williamson
That would be good. You could do like, a Andrew Huberman's morning routine and my morning routine compared.
- CJCraig Jones
Well, I think we start pretty similar by messaging five different women we meet.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
Are we recording? I hope that's in. Cut that in.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. That's in. All right, man. Hello.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, welcome back. How are you?
- CJCraig Jones
Good to see you, mate. I'm still alive, unfortunately.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Last time we were together was CGI1.
- CJCraig Jones
And I think I left you at a strip club around 7:00 AM.
- CWChris Williamson
No, that was... That was someone else that looked like me.
- CJCraig Jones
James Smith.
- CWChris Williamson
That was James Smith. Uh, how did you celebrate after CGI?
- CJCraig Jones
Oh, shit. Well, I mean, we went to Cartagena, Colombia and went on a five-day bender, pretty much. Came out very unhealthy, but survived it.
- CWChris Williamson
Direct from Vegas?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. So we left the afterparty, flew straight in there. The secret investor threw us a party, and it was the hardest five days of my entire life. It was grueling.
- CWChris Williamson
In Colombia?
- CJCraig Jones
In Colombia, yeah. Heavy times down in Colombia.
- CWChris Williamson
Right. So it was like the... Like an endurance sport.
- CJCraig Jones
You should have been.
- CWChris Williamson
An endurance racing... Like the David Goggins of, of parties.
- CJCraig Jones
P- pretty much. It w- I mean, we didn't sleep much. The guy had it set up so we had IVs every morning. That probably kept me alive, quite honestly. And we brought Volkanovski's coach, Joe Lopez, 73 years old, didn't sleep.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
Did not sleep for three days. Used his poor Spanish on any woman that would listen to him. But somehow still alive, returned to his family safely. Every time I take him away, Volkanovski calls me and is like, "Please, bro, he's gonna die."
- CWChris Williamson
"Bring him back alive."
- CJCraig Jones
"He's gonna die." And I'm like, "That's what his family wants. They keep asking me."
- CWChris Williamson
Y-... Right. Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Jesus fuck. Uh, how would you... What's your synopsis of how the first one went?
- CJCraig Jones
I mean, I think it really couldn't have gone much better, you know? Like, it actually surprised me. Obviously, I have my personal assistant, Seth, take care of a lot of the, uh, more mundane activities in preparing us for the event. But yeah, everything went off without a hitch as, as far as I'm concerned. What did you think of the show?
- 3:41 – 5:52
Meeting Pablo Escobar’s Sister
- CWChris Williamson
Did you meet Pablo Escobar's sister?
- CJCraig Jones
I did, and this is actually a weird story. Um, so I put up a post. I think I actually made quite an insensitive post. I was using the cocaine sunglasses to pour some powder, a prop, onto Pablo's grave, like one for the fallen homies, you know? But a guy messaged me on Instagram, and he's like, "Do you want to meet the sister?" And I was like, "You're full of shit, for sure." You know? You get one of those DMs. But then he sent me a picture of a large quantity of a substance that made me assume that he was the real deal. So I ventured off down to meet him on a Saturday night in Colombia, and he showed me some pictures with the sister, and later that week, we went out for dinner. She took us on a bit of a tour of Pablo's old house, and then we got hammered together on red wine. And everything was going good until I tricked her into putting the sunglasses on for a photo, and then we explained to her what the (laughs) sunglasses were for. And it took a bit of a turn, but still we...
- CWChris Williamson
Why? What happened then?
- CJCraig Jones
Well, she... I mean, obviously she's not into the, uh, heritage of the Escobar name, you know?
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, right. She's completely just disparaged and gotten rid of that illustrious history.
- CJCraig Jones
The family empire, yeah. I was... I was grilling her on a lot of questions about Pablo, but, uh, obviously a lot of the notorious, nefarious activities were shielded from-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... the family life.
- CWChris Williamson
But have they still got access to that house? His... One of his houses?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, I think, uh... T- that's actually something she was trying to clarify for me. And the guy that, uh, sort of helped connect us as well was Pablo's old driver, and they were trying to clarify that the, uh, large stacks of cash, where people were talking about, like, what was holding the cash together was disintegrating, and stuff, was like largely a myth. That most of the cocaine transactions were for land or for houses, so they... I believe they did get to keep a lot of the proceeds of that.
- CWChris Williamson
As opposed to it being he spends $10,000 a week on rubber bands-
- CJCraig Jones
Exactly, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... to put, put all of the cash together. That wasn't true?
- CJCraig Jones
She says no. Brilliant PR move. You know what I mean? Like, the government's not coming for that land if they don't think you have it. They're just looking for that buried cash.
- CWChris Williamson
Ah, yeah. That is interesting. Did
- 5:52 – 13:15
Getting Drugged in Colombia
- CWChris Williamson
you get drugged? Did you... Did you, uh, unintentionally get drugged?
- CJCraig Jones
I did unintentionally get drugged. So, like, obviously...So to set up the story, obviously we're there on a bender. But I went down there for four or five weeks, and like, all my friends are hitting me up being like, "You're in Colombia, I'll come down." And it's like when you live in a tourist spot. People are like, they want to do all the tourist shit when you come down. So like, every time a new friend comes down, they put my body through the ringer. But those last two weeks, I tried to pace myself for a bit of survival. And then again, my personal assistant, Seth, he came down there exploiting my name for some stem cells at a stem cell company 'cause they get the real shit down there in Colombia. So he comes down, and we decide to hit the main strip. And usually I would stay at the house. We'd get obliterated, and then we'd adventure out into the streets of Medi- Medellín, see what we could find, right? But, uh, this night we went out just for a couple casual cocktails, 'cause of course you have stem cells. You're not meant to drink. You're meant to stay healthy. So we're actually on the main street of Colombia, and Steth- Seth had stem cells in his neck, so I definitely positioned him with his sort of back towards the crowd, had his s- stiff neck every time I pointed out an attractive Colombian woman who was in paralysis trying to turn around. And then, uh, so I don't know who drugged me, but have you heard about the drug scopolamine, the devil's breath?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- CJCraig Jones
You haven't heard of it?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- CJCraig Jones
All right, so basically, there's a substance, it's kind of mythical in its nature because it quite often is guys heading to a strip club or something, and what happens is they wake up with no money in their account. So it's a bit of a... It's a great boogeyman of a story for the missus. He's wondering, "God, I must-"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm, get over... Oh no, it was the devil's breath.
- CJCraig Jones
"I must've been drugged."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- CJCraig Jones
So like, (sighs) I think it's largely exaggerated, but still a lot of people die down there. Two jujitsu guys sat next to me rambling while I was having a couple cocktails with Seth. They met with a couple of Tinder dates, and Tinder down there is pretty dangerous 'cause ob- obviously these druggings and stuff. And then I don't know who put it in my drink. Could've been the bartender. Could've been the guy's Tinder date I tried to steal that night. Could've been him. But from that point on, just basically... And usually I can handle a few drinks. I've probably only had three, four drinks. And I remember just distinctly the last mem- memory I have, we had two shots there, and Seth was trying not to drink because of the stem cells. And I was like, "You're a pussy," so I drank my shot and his shot. And ordinarily that's something I would do, because given his five foot three size, a full margarita might kill the man. So usually I'm jumping on bullets for him as it is. But what ended up happening was, we went to our next destination, which was obviously a family-friendly location, as you can imagine, in Medellín. Seth walks into the bathroom and finds me basically pants down. I've pulled my shirt off, I've gone to the bathroom, I'm overheating. He thinks it's a dream come true, he's found me in the bathroom unconscious with my pants down, but he has to get me out of there. And the funniest thing is, he had to carry me out of there with his stem cell-ridden-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
... damaged neck. S- so he could, uh... I mean, he could barely lift me as it is, but with the stem cell injury. So really... He carried me home, tucked me into bed. Apparently I was clothed. I woke up fully naked, suspicious. But he wouldn't... He obviously wouldn't have done much damage if he did. But we checked, uh... We basically checked the security camera footage the next day, and really, the reason we realized it was scopolamine, 'cause it has this... You're sort of like The Walking Dead. I couldn't walk 'cause I took two hits, but you remember all your banking detail. You remember numbers very well. So it like, messes with your head, but it's great to rob people because you remember the details. So we got the security camera footage where Seth's dragging me to the front door. We get to the Airbnb and I like, perk up, put the code in, and pass back out.
- CWChris Williamson
You're kidding.
- CJCraig Jones
He takes me to... Yeah, he takes me to bed.
- CWChris Williamson
That's insane. So it's able to completely incapacitate people apart from their ability (laughs) to do fucking mental arithmetic and remember numbers.
- CJCraig Jones
Exactly. So, phew, it's... And that shocked me. Seth obviously thought I'd just drunk too much, but when we put it together, it was, yeah, definitely had the scopolamine. And we c- we were constantly having this argument, really. Who saved whose life? He obviously rescued me from the bathroom floor, but I jumped on the bullet of his drugging shot.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Right, okay.
- CJCraig Jones
So it's kind of who saved who here?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, so stem cells plus scopolamine would have been... Uh, can you d- just sort of run the game tape forward what would have happened if the shots had been reversed and you'd had to look after Seth? Do you think you would've been-
- CJCraig Jones
Seth would not be sitting there awkwardly in the corner looking at us. He'd probably be in a gra- in a grave six feet under the ground somewhere.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
So what was the day after like? Is there a come down?
- CJCraig Jones
You know what, honestly, I-
- CWChris Williamson
Are you happy?
- CJCraig Jones
I woke up naked and saw a trash can on the, like... Saw a trash can there and I was just like, "Fuck, what happened last night?" But I felt pretty good, to be honest. I was like... 'Cause y- Obviously, usually a hangover, as you well know, can be very ugly the next day. But I remember being like... I didn't remember anything that happened. And then I started to piece it together. Obviously, the camera guy that was with us at the time, he sort of showed me the video tape he took of me basically entering the house. I called Seth. We were trying to piece it together, really. It was a mystery.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm. Where were you living? Were you just Airbnbing around?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, just Airbnbing it. But I mean, yeah, luckily, Airbnb and the guy at the front desk showed us the security camera footage to piece it together, and he thought it was the funniest thing he's ever seen, hey? (laughs) No pity at all from the security guard.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, he could've... Had he have not known that you guys were friends, he could have assumed that it was a very forthcoming, very tanned Native American man using scopolamine unscrupulously.
- CJCraig Jones
Well, I mean, that's how many of Seth's dates go, you know? They don't call him Bill Cosby for nothing. Same complexion.
- 13:15 – 24:30
Charity Work in Ethiopia
- CWChris Williamson
you went to Ethiopia. Why'd you go there?
- CJCraig Jones
So we- we got this, um... Obviously, we got a Fair Fight Foundation. Despite everything I've just said, I do do charity work, um, for the greater good. You know what I mean? And we partner with the Guardian program, which has jujitsu schools all around the world for sort of kids that wouldn't have access to those programs, and they provide 'em clean drinking water, in some of the places food, um, and English lessons. So we went out there... Actually, where, where was I? We- actually, we were in Peru, and, um, with the Guardian guys, 'cause they were building a school out there in Peru. And one of the guys in Ethiopia that runs the Guardian program there, Codo, one of the guys at Guardian, got me to send a- a video message to him, and I just winged it, and I was like... 'Cause he's a fan of me. I don't know why, but I sent him a message, and I was like, "I'll see you soon in Ethiopia." And then I just pursued that to the end to visit his school, and we went out there with Guardian. And tho- these kids were basically training on concrete, in Addis Ababa, and we went out there and went on a bit of an adventure, but they were training on concrete, and we fit it there-
- CWChris Williamson
What do you mean, training on concrete?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, just like concrete with like maybe three or four puzzle mats, so like real harsh conditions for the kids out there in Ethiopia. So we generously fitted out their gym with mats, and Showroll hooked them up with some gis for them to train in. But they're, yeah, tough conditions for them training.
- CWChris Williamson
So they're doing... They're trying to do Brazilian jujitsu, essentially on concrete.
- CJCraig Jones
Not a heavy guard pulling culture, as you can imagine. (laughs) But yeah, Ethio- I mean, Ethiopia was absolutely wild. Just the sheer scale of the poverty out there-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... was mind-blowing.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
And we went to visit a couple of the tribes out there. We went to... Honestly, I can't remember the name of the tribes, but we went deep out there to see two different tribes. One of them we rolled into, and they were doing a whipping ceremony, which is... It's like a coming of age ceremony for a man in the tribe before he disappears for a while on some hunting expedition.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
But the way they celebrate that is he does... His part, the male part of this is they line up seven or eight bulls, and he just runs naked across them, back and forth, so that's his contribution.
- CWChris Williamson
Across what?
- CJCraig Jones
Across bulls-
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- CJCraig Jones
... like the animal.
- CWChris Williamson
Right. So he's... Do they have a little set of steps or something like that? And then-
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, they just helped him up. Well, actually, they had a smaller bull to kickstart.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
A little stepping-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
... a stepping stone of a bull.
- CWChris Williamson
Stepping bull. (laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Right, okay.
- CJCraig Jones
He made it. He- he fell at the very end, but I couldn't post any of that footage 'cause he was naked, unfortunately.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
And, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Naked-
- CJCraig Jones
Well-endowed and intimidating for me.
- 24:30 – 27:07
Trying Ketamine With the Locals
- CWChris Williamson
What was the ketamine thing?
- CJCraig Jones
Oh, all right. So I won't say where we got it, maybe I smuggled it in. But, uh, at one of the campfires when we were out at the tribes, right, we were try- obviously trying to entertain ourselves. Some of the stories you've told me off camera for sure. Um, we're trying to entes- entertain ourselves. So we had this ketamine nasal spray and we were sitting around this fireplace just being idiots. Like, uh, we dr- we were drinking the local moonshine, so I thought that'd be like a cool experience, but it w- basically tasted like gasoline. The local guy was like, "I'm gonna go get you guys some of the, the moonshine." I was like, "Fuck, sick, let's get drunk." And he came back and it was in a plastic bottle and it basically smelled like pure ethanol, so I had to put that down, you know. I wasn't gonna turn it away. And then we busted out the ketamine nasal spray and we were hitting that, obviously being quite reflective of the fireplace. And there was a dude there that had just left goat herding. Goat herding had been his thing for generations, his family's thing. Very proud of the culture of goat herding out there. And he saw what we're doing being idiots and he looked at the spray and he was like... He didn't even speak the same dialect as the guys we were with, but definitely you see a face that's interested and wants to try something, he hits the ketamine. And, um, he sat looking at the fireplace for two hours not moving, and then the translator came out and this guy was like, "Never give that (laughs) to me again." And then 15 minutes later he's like...
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
He's like, "Pass that back."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- CJCraig Jones
And then, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Ketamine'll do that to you.
- CJCraig Jones
It's, yeah, it'll be in a hole, be in a dark place but you come out of it. And then this guy basically gave us a speech through a translator afterwards how he's had all these, like, visions and he's like... He was working for the ho- I wouldn't even say it's a hotel, there's s- really no electricity or anything, like we're sleeping in some tents, but he would sort of cook for us. And he'd only just started doing this cooking role. And following the ketamine experience, he's like, "I have to leave. I have to return to my roots of goat herding." He's like, "I'm gonna cook you breakfast in the morning and then I'm out of here."
- CWChris Williamson
You gave a guy an existential crisis with ketamine.
- CJCraig Jones
I've given a few people existential crisis with a few substances, but a Ethiopian goat herder (laughs) in the middle of the desert is definitely a first for me. (laughs) Yeah, I mean, look, he's returned to his roots. I'm sure he's probably enjoying that more. I don't think the cooking life was for him.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. All right. Okay, so you're a life coach now as well.
- CJCraig Jones
More than wisdom, that's what we're here for.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, it's a hard, it's a hard pivot, but I wonder how many people would sign up to be life coached by you. Could you imagine what the sort of outcomes of clients that were life coached by you would be?
- CJCraig Jones
P- probably a few large divorce settlements, I'd imagine, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.
- 27:07 – 30:28
Why Craig Got Arrested in Bali
- CWChris Williamson
All right. Who got arrested in Bali? What was that like?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, I mean, like, honestly, I don't know how or why I haven't ended up in a prison really (laughs) in some of these travels, but yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, you're kind of like, uh, you've been dodging very effectively. It's impressive.
- CJCraig Jones
The Teflon Don, you know, we're getting through airport security. Obviously, I ve- I look, uh, I don't look suspicious at all. That's what I like to think, you know? But we've, I've managed to dodge it. But yeah, I know tons of people, tons of British guys getting popped even recently in Dubai. It was large
- NANarrator
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
Two kids just got popped, the clothing company owners, right? For having this big party going on. A friend's girlfriend was someone who's just in the room next door or, like, nearby. It's like if you're at a party and there's somebody that has drugs, it's like, "Oh, we'll just lock you up for two weeks and we'll see what's going on here." Uh, so not good. Really, really, really not good.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, yeah. You gotta be careful in some of these countries partying. It's not good for us.
- CWChris Williamson
That's the problem with... I, I wonder whether it's the same with Aussies, but I certainly know that British people have this, like, disregard a, a lot of the time for the laws abroad. It's weird because British people are very orderly. Like, if you've ever driven in the UK, you'll notice if, if I'm in front of you and I indicate, I h- I get your lane, like you back off. As opposed to in America, you guys protect the lane that you're... You actively speed up to not allow that person to get in.
- CJCraig Jones
They-
- CWChris Williamson
It's very territorial.
- CJCraig Jones
They defend the lane like the southern border, basically.
- CWChris Williamson
Correct. Yeah. Well, now, yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, whereas the British defend the lane like the southern border a year ago.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, so very, very opened up. Um, so in some way, 97% I think compliance with the first COVID vaccine, like 90% with the second one. They're quite a rule-following type nation, apart from when we leave and we go elsewhere and the sort of party culture. I remember I was at... Fuck, I can't remember the name of the, the hotel. It was during COVID. So we'd fled the UK, me and a friend had fled the UK because another lockdown was coming and we weren't gonna be able to fly anywhere, and we just went to Dubai. And we were watching MK play a rooftop pool thing in Dubai. Everybody there was British because they'd all done the same thing that we'd done and fled the UK. And you think if there's one place you really don't wanna be caught with drugs, it's fucking Dubai. I mean, also maybe Bali and Thailand and stuff like that. But you really don't... They do not fuck about. And it was just this classic sort of lairy British culture passing bags around, leaving them out on the table. Everything, you know, bottle of Grey Goose, bottle of Belvedere, bottle of, like, unpronounceable pink fucking, like, powder.
- CJCraig Jones
What was the name of this place so I can avoid it?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
Some island in the UAE. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
I c- I honestly can't remember what it was called. But, uh, I just remember thinking, "This is during fucking lockdown." So there's supposed to be social distancing, there's supposed to be masking. Like, okay, you get through the new rules that you can maybe say are a little bit silly, but then you get to the ones where you go they, they're... They've been around for a long time and they're going to fuck you up. And, uh, yeah, British people... But are, are Aussies like that? Are they kind of dis- they still go degen, disregard the laws abroad mode?
- CJCraig Jones
I would say for sure, yeah, we're pretty reckless as well. Definitely take some chances.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
I for one.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I, okay-
- CJCraig Jones
Total risk takers.
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm, I'm aware that, I'm aware that you might be an out... I was assuming that you weren't representative.
- CJCraig Jones
I think pretty representative, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
All right, okay, this is just normal?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, normal.
- CWChris Williamson
You, right? You're, you're, you're not anything different, you're just Australian?
- 30:28 – 34:14
Building a School in Peru
- CWChris Williamson
what about this school in Peru that you're building?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, so, uh, again with the Guardian program, who's run these, um, schools around the world for kids. We're building one in Peru 'cause we visited, uh, I wish I could remember the name of the city, but it's basically a surf spot. Peru has some of the best surfing in the world, so it's kind of like a, a bit of a tourist spot. So there's a lot of, uh, foreign tourists coming in, having a good time, partying, hitting the bars and hitting the surf spots, and it's created a culture of, like, a lot of kids dealing drugs, um, in the poverty-stricken areas around it. So we're... I know it sounds, uh, a bit hypocritical, but we're building a school down there. They've basically reached capacity as it is, so we're trying to build a bigger facility for 'em to expand so they can take in more kids. But like some- I mean, Peru, the poverty was really quite severe, quite shocking. I think most people just go there, visit Machu Picchu, Lima, get out of there.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
But we went up to the, uh, northwest. And yeah, the poverty was real bad. Like, lack of clean drinking water-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... lack of opportunities.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So through jujitsu, teaching the kids discipline, and they teach them English, provide them clean drinking water. The new facility will provide them food as well. Hope we can at least make a difference within that little city.
- CWChris Williamson
What's driving this other than tax incentives? What's-
- CJCraig Jones
Balancing the moral... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, this is karmic retribution.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
Basically, yeah, I would say so.
- CWChris Williamson
After you've done what you've done to Gabby Garcia, you feel like you need to repay the world?
- CJCraig Jones
I, I would say I was the victim of the Gabby Garcia thing to... truth be told. But there have been many victims of Gabby Garcia, as I've told you off camera. But yeah, I mean, it does feel good to do... to, to make a change like that-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... with your influence.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
And I'm trying to like, uh, change the narrative a bit on charity. 'Cause most of the time people tune in to watch some sort of charity documentary. It's almost like a sadness porn or something, you know what I mean? Where it's... And then the-
- CWChris Williamson
Tugging at the heartstrings, making you feel bad. Here's some guilt.
- CJCraig Jones
And then there's the guy that's like almost the, the savior, too good to be true type character. So I'm trying to balance it out by at least providing some entertainment value, some realness, and most importantly, going to these areas where kids are selling drugs and buying those drugs so that they don't have them to use.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, that's where the money goes?
- CJCraig Jones
That, yeah, that is actually, um, tax deduction, I believe.
- CWChris Williamson
Right. To reinvest into the local community.
- CJCraig Jones
Reinvesting in the community-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
... and, uh, improving exports.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. Good. Very good. Uh, what is it... When you're sort of building these places, who's actually on the ground doing it? You gotta find some fixer, local person to actually operate all this stuff. It's not like you can literally fucking sat there.
- CJCraig Jones
I wish I could, and so does his family, but yeah, obviously, as you know, I'm an incredible judge of character and I've never made any mistakes hiring or associating with people in the past. So it is very difficult. Luckily Guardian really, um, chooses the right person 'cause again, like you're running a charity program for kids. You gotta be very careful.
- 34:14 – 38:20
Exploring the Favelas in Brazil
- CWChris Williamson
Brazil? You spent some time there.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, so we went to Brazil. Uh, we did a clothing release with StreetX, and it was basically Brazil themes. And we ch- we were basically trying to take some cool photos and videos. So we're trying to recreate the Gracie origin story back in the day where the Gracies would go to... Like, there's a famous video of Rickson Gracie going to the beach and slapping this dude that had been talking shit. And then they brought him on the beach. Our version of that was to go to the beach, get extremely drunk with the local bartenders, and then have challenge matches against the bartenders. And that was, that was our reincarnation of it. And then the bart- we were trying to get into the favelas, you know. You wanna see, you wanna see the favelas. I've heard so much about 'em, wild places. So we d- I just trusted this bartender, this guy. I was like, "Oh, you wanna go to the favelas? I will take you." Drunk at the time, we agreed to do this. Next day, picks us up, takes us into the, one of the favelas, drops us right at the top. And on the way out, we had to stop filming. You're not allowed to film any of the dudes with guns. You're not allowed to take photos with the guns, despite me asking many, many times. And they have some fucking impressive weaponry up there, even like RPG launchers to take out police helicopters and stuff. And I remember we get to the top of the hill, he drops us off at the very top. Turn around, there's a guy with a gun and he's like looking at us. And he basically get... The, the local bartender introduced us. And then he saw the cauliflower ears and was like, "Oh, jujitsu. Jujitsu." And he is like, "I competed in the last World Championships when it used to be held in Brazil." So we got the free pass from there. And then I realized behind him, this was the motorcycle pickup point for all the drug pickups for people making orders, right? And he goes, "Oh, do you want anything?" And I was like... I went to say, obviously, "Yes." And he's like, "No, you're a jujitsu athlete. Not for you."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
He's like... And, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, so first off, you were saved by being a BJJ athlete, and then disappointed by it too.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, basically.
- CWChris Williamson
The lord giveth and taketh away.
- CJCraig Jones
We were like the, uh, ketamine goat herdsman at that point, you know. We... (laughs) Back to our jiu jitsu roots. Yeah. But I mean, we had the free pass. I mean, I think it's, it's a lot safer and like the guys were quite insistent on wanting us to show that the favelas can be safe, you know, 'cause they just have such a bad-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... name. So they're quite appreciative when you show the favelas in a positive light 'cause it, it's not, it's not as bad as people think. Like really when we were walking around up there, we realized there are safe points. Like especially this one favela, I forget the name, but it overlooks basically the Rio coastline and it's like-... the favelas have a bad name. Obviously some of them deserve that, but for the most part, the people up there were super cool, super welcoming, super nice.
- CWChris Williamson
So this is one of those super narrow streets, rickety, corrugated iron, tin roof type places?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. And he, like ... At the very tip, I was, at the very, near the very top, I would say there's some, like, clubs and some restaurants that are probably pretty tourist-friendly. And then, but as you do the walk down, you kinda need someone there with you. So he'd given us this kid that must've been 15 who threw the red shirt over their shoulder, which was the signal to the people above that, uh, "Don't rob these guys," I assume.
- CWChris Williamson
No way.
- CJCraig Jones
'Cause we had some expensive camera equipment with us.
- CWChris Williamson
So that's the pass to get through. So now anybody that's got a red shirt thrown over their shoulder, walking through a favela-
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. Just, just-
- CWChris Williamson
Unless they changed the color code, in which case that, that means something else.
- CJCraig Jones
Pretend to be a blood and you're all good, eh?
- CWChris Williamson
Wow. So it seems like you've been capturing a lot of the content from this. I haven't seen shit-tons of favela Brazil cont ... Is there some latent documentary thing coming at some point?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. I mean, we, we have the content. We have a lot of it out there, but, I mean, mostly just social media. And y- you know, like, unfortunately I would say people like you have ruined the YouTube experience where it used to be incredible vlogs, cinematography, well artistic sort of, uh, things. And then it's just been taken over by the podcast-
- CWChris Williamson
White guys talking.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, (laughs) by the podcast gods who have-
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- CJCraig Jones
... gained the algorithm for maximum ad revenue. But yeah, so I mostly use it for socials or photos, things like that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
Memories when I struggle
- 38:20 – 46:55
Adventures in Venezuela
- CJCraig Jones
to remember them.
- CWChris Williamson
What about Venezuela?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, so Venezuela was another interesting destination, obviously a sanctioned country. U.S. citizens can't visit there. So-
- CWChris Williamson
They're not allowed to visit there?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, U.S. citizens, mm, are not allowed to visit there. I think-
- CWChris Williamson
Because the Venezuelans say that you can't visit there or the Am- the American people say that you can't visit there?
- CJCraig Jones
I think America's sanctions, mm, on Venezuela have caused Venezuela to basically-
- CWChris Williamson
Right, yep.
- CJCraig Jones
... block you. I think there is a path, but it's a very difficult path for U.S. citizens to get into. So just the sheer thought of a country without Americans, I was like, "Sold."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
"That sounds brilliant. That sounds like a peaceful oasis."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So, mm, I set up sort of a charity seminar down there, and the Jiu-Jitsu scene was actually quite big, so we went down there and pretty heavy experience when you get to the airport and stuff, like, it's like-
- CWChris Williamson
How d- where did you fly from?
- CJCraig Jones
I flew out from Medellin. I think it was straight off to Medellin. I think I went up to Cartagena again, say hello (laughs) to some old friends, uh, and then flew straight from Medellin to Venezuela airport. And I had some guys on the ground that were helping me out, but, like, it's bizarre, like, the airport security, the immigration part of it, is like obviously all the Venezuelans are going through, and then I'm just standing there alone for two hours while they're using WhatsApp to message the security people to work out whether they want to detain me or not. And I assume they probably looked at my Instagram and thought, "This guy's a fucking idiot. He's not gonna do any harm. Let him in." And then we went on a bit of an adventure there. We went out to Angel Falls, w- world's tallest waterfall. Beautiful experience out there. We stayed at a lovely resort, taken care of pretty damn well. The only thing is that obviously my friends and family, Venezuela is typically a pretty dangerous country. Ten, I think 10 million people fled it, uh, over the last X amount of time. Obviously a lot of Venezuelan immigrants getting around. And it has a bad reputation. So when I went to Angel Falls, I had already smashed my phone in a drunk incident, and I remember being like, "Oh, iPhones are waterproof," so we were walking through waterfalls and shit and I was just sta- I was starting to film. Phone died and I'm like, I was off the grid for three days with people just not knowing where I was, if I was okay, what happened.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
I think I got a SOS signal out there at some point to say everything was all good. And then my cameraman met me at a later date in Venezuela and we were able to get basically, uh, communication with the outside world.
- CWChris Williamson
Reacquainted. I imagine that was finally bliss for you, Seth to have been liberated from having to look after him for three days? (laughs) I'm sorry.
- NANarrator
Cool.
- CWChris Williamson
I was getting calls from somewhere else. Oh, I see.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. We, we had, uh, we had a companion send a SOS signal so that, I mean, that ... I was okay. Seth had to get me a new phone and get it hand-delivered to me, I think, at a later location. And then again, it was another location I brought Volkanovski's coach, Joe Lopez, to-
- CWChris Williamson
To f- you brought him to Venezuela?
- CJCraig Jones
Brought him to Venezuela.
- CWChris Williamson
Fantastic.
- CJCraig Jones
And he, um ... Again, any excuse for him to use his Spanish on unsuspecting women-
- CWChris Williamson
Totally, yep.
- CJCraig Jones
... that is, like, the bat signal for him. He will arrive and, uh, yeah, we had a bit of a blowout the last time, which is good.
- CWChris Williamson
What's Venezuela like generally?
- CJCraig Jones
I mean, honestly, one of the most beau- if not the most beautiful country I've ever seen in my life. Incredible. Angel Falls area amazing. At the north, um, along the, the coastline there, some of the most beautiful coastline in the world. I think it's a tragedy that, uh, it doesn't have a tourism industry for Americans 'cause it's right, it's so close.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 46:55 – 55:06
The Second Craig Jones Invitational
- CWChris Williamson
what's happening with CGI 2? We're not far off now.
- CJCraig Jones
CGI 2 is back August 30, 31 in, uh, Vegas Thomas & Mack Event Center. This time we're mixing it up. I think the first event, we, we won that battle. We proved sort of that jiu-jitsu can be exciting, uh, might have to fight a woman to do it, but, uh, it can be... That's, that's what lured you in. You heard about me fighting a woman, you were like, "I'm there."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got-
- CJCraig Jones
Andy Tonick was there.
- CWChris Williamson
I, it's weird because I got all of this inspiration from an Ethiopian tribe about what you should, how you should treat women. And then thought, "Right, I'm gonna get to see this play out on the big screen."
- CJCraig Jones
Honestly, the worst thought I had when I saw like, I saw the women getting whipped was really like, "Oh, I wanna be like guys. We can do this emotionally." I was gonna teach you-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
... gas, gaslighting. I was like, "Save your shoulders. Y- you'll need stem cells in Colombia." But yeah, CGI 2 will be a teams event. So the most exciting event I've ever participated in was a Japanese event called Quintet, which, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Did they make it up? Where's Qui- Who made up Quintet as a format?
- CJCraig Jones
Kazushi Sakuraba, um, famous Japanese MMA fighter. And it was his contribution to grappling. And I mean, it's, it's sort of a iteration of a, like a wrestling meet where guys are fighting off in different divisions, but it had the last man standing sort of dynamic to it. And I didn't just wanna do CGI 1 same format again. Obviously we gave away $2 million, it's fucking expensive. I thought, "How can we cheapen out a bit on this event?" I was like, "All right. Teams event, $1 million prize pool." 'Cause really, a lot of people... CGI 1 sort of showed who the two best athletes in the world were. And there's a lot of contention, uh, about really who's the best team in the world. So I was like, "Let's try and do real teams. You pick your five best guys, five sort of ADCC Olympic divisions, and we'll do a last man standing style event. And we're gonna add in..." We're s- obviously heavily inspired by Quintet. Quintet would ban heel hooks. MMA fighters are terrified of leg locks. I don't know why they always do that. So w- leg locks are allowed for us.And we're borrowing, obviously, from wrestling, so Royal Rumble-style entries- entrances. So it's basically like when we do quintet, the team lineup would already be predetermined. So you kind of like last man standing, like, uh, you submit your opponent, you kind- you know who's next.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
We're gonna leave that a mystery. So the coach on the sideline can basically be like, his guy gets submitted, he's like, "Oh, send in whoever."
- CWChris Williamson
This guy. Yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
And it's gonna be like... It's gonna be a big impact for the crowd to be like, "Oh, my God, who's next?" Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Who's coming next. Oh, that's cool. So it's one person from each weight category?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. So, like, we'll p- basically be the ADCC weight divisions. Like, you take your five best guys, we take our five best guys.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
And we'll see us, it'll be eight teams match up over two days. I'll be competing as well, unfortunately. I'll be facing a character that somewhat rep- re- resembles Gaby Garcia, I would say, but that would be Gable Steveson.
- CWChris Williamson
Who's this guy that you're wrestling?
- CJCraig Jones
Olympic gold medal wrestler.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
American wrestler. Um, he would be 125 kilos or, for the unintelligent, 265 pounds. Massive size discrepancy. I think I, I think I'm weighing, like... Man, real light right now. It's been a tumultuous couple of months, you know, we skipped a few meals.
- CWChris Williamson
On a desiccated diet.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. I, I mean, part of that is handicapping myself because I am facing a wrestler. And wrestlers, all they have is takedowns. Once it hits the floor, they have no idea what the fuck's going on. And we basically, we've tried to prove that when Volkanovski out grappled Islam Makhachev and Jack Della out grappling Belal Muhammad, Australian jiu-jitsu trumps all forms of wrestling. We've found the, the cure, the antidote. So really for me, I'm gonna face off against this giant, absolute giant human being who only has wrestling. He has no submission.
- CWChris Williamson
And what's the rule set?
- CJCraig Jones
Three-by-five-minute rounds.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- CJCraig Jones
One-minute break in between. All submissions legal. He's gone into a career in MMA in the future, so-
- 55:06 – 59:14
The Fallout From ADCC
- CWChris Williamson
was the fallout from ADCC around? 'Cause presumably that happens every two years.
- CJCraig Jones
Every two years, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So that's not gonna be a competition this time around so it'll be easier to get more teams, more people, more spectators, et cetera.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. So like last year we went head-to-head. We were mildly offended by petty things the owner said so we decided to host an event the same day on someone else's, uh... With someone else's money which is always the best tactic as you know at Nutonic. But really the fallout was I think we decisively won. But this is a good opportunity actually. ADCC is on Flow Grappling and I have just signed I would say, and it's not saying much, the most lucrative contract in grappling history to now join forces and essentially take over Flow Grappling. So it's kind of a corporate takeover. So Flow Grappling hosted ADCC, they had the, uh, subscribers. I went on a malicious onslaught of an attack against ADCC, and as a result Flow Grappling as well. We tore them down to a point of vulnerability that now the only person they could call for help was me, essentially a corporate takeover. And now they've basically given me the reins to save grappling. So-
- CWChris Williamson
So what have they done? What's the deal?
- CJCraig Jones
Um, I can't talk too much about it. Uh, Flow Grappling usually is a, like, it's a streaming platform to host events and original content. CJI will remain free on YouTube. I mean, I'm basically gonna run the operation now. We're gonna fix the damage we did. We're gonna try and get the fan base back.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. You've, you've caused the problem and now you're selling them the cure.
- CJCraig Jones
Exactly. Sounds like my dating life as well really, but, um-
- CWChris Williamson
That's the gaslighting coming back in.
- CJCraig Jones
The gaslighting come back. Yeah. No, but we're working, we're working together with Flow now, you know, because there are big enterprises trying to enter the sport of grappling-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... and they're trying to lock athletes down to exclusive contracts, re- a- again, like, they're gonna try to monopolize the sport of grappling-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... and grapplers where there's barely $3 to throw together as it is, if this big organization were to monopolize the sport of grappling, the athletes themselves would lose the leverage for negotiations and getting their true value from the different events out there. Like obviously we've got One Championship as well.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
The big three would be One Championship, Flow Grappling, and UFC Fight Pass, right? So if one of these were to take over completely and create a monopoly then they would not have any incentive to pay the athletes more. Or-
- CWChris Williamson
You're able to negotiate, you, where else are you gonna go?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. Or even put more effort into the spectacle of grappling. Like, my thoughts are if fake grappling is one of the most entertaining things in the world, WWE, why can real grappling not be that?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
And I believe that's the root of professional wrestling was they used to actually have real matches but it was too boring for the fans to watch so they decided to have real matches behind the scenes and then the winner of that would determine the winner of the professional show.
- CWChris Williamson
No way.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. And so we, we're trying to steal... I want to steal the theatrics. Obviously Vince McMahon, personal hero of mine, I'm really trying to steal what he did for professional wrestling minus his personal life-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
... and bring that to the sport of jiu-jitsu. And I think if we borrow from professional wrestling with a spectacle, even in the history of MMA like in Japan they used to have an event called Pride. Pride ultimately got shut down 'cause of yakuza connections but they used to put on an incredible spectacle of an event. They used to put a lot of effort into the production, into creative ideas to hype an event. So me being the promoter, being the promoter of this event I'm trying to push the envelope in creating excitement in the event and I'm worried that if any one of these organizations were to get a monopoly-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... well, then there's really no, there's, there's no reason for them to push the envelope of the events, athlete pay, 'cause they've already controlled the market.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- 59:14 – 1:04:25
Making Grappling More Exciting
- CWChris Williamson
What else can be done to make grappling more exciting?
- CJCraig Jones
I mean, he- here's the thing. Anything's exciting if there's a storyline, you know? Like, so the more we invest in the story, that whether it's fake or real, the more we get people invested in each of the individual athletes or the teams or whatever, the more excited you are going to be to watch it take place. Like, there's been some boring MMA fights and boxing fights out there but the hype has been so good that even though... Even when you're watching the live event you're sort of on the edge of your seat.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
So as long as we invest in the storyline and build up the event... CJI had a... CJI-1 had a huge benefit because it was... The story was basically CJI versus ADCC.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
So we created this division and people were invested in picking a side. So we need to leverage storylines like that to invest, uh, people's time and energy into actually watching the event, whether the match is exciting or not.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Yeah, I... Look, I enjoyed some of the fights at CJI. I think one of the issues that you have, the art form's so subtle that for a muggle like me to fully be able to understand the nuance of exactly what's going on... This is where actually being within earshot of the commentators made it way easier because they were able to translate for me what was going on. You can tell when, uh, people are on their feet and they're spinning around, there's like... You know, uh, uh, Tackett-Rotolo, that fight was fucking spectacular, right? Like, and I, total idiot normal person, like, I can tell there's something exciting going on here. But I do wonder what... And I think that you guys helped with slanted walls, with, uh, tighter time limits, with, you know, different modes of scoring. I think that-... you spoke about this last year, that that helps to incentivize people to not fight in a more boring manner, to make, make it more of a spectator-friendly, uh, event.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. And real ... I mean, like, that would be one angle of really why I'm trying to fight these exclusive contracts is, like, Takis versus Kade Ruotolo is one of the most exciting matches in history. If both these guys get locked down to exclusive contracts, we may never see that rematch.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
But in terms of making grappling exciting, yeah, that is a tall order to do. But I believe the quintet format is what will make it exciting, the last man standing style, where we have teams, right? Because if there's inactivity in jujitsu, it's boring. When nothing's happening, it's boring. However, when we're ... Imagine like, uh, 'cause there's gonna be different weight divisions. Imagine it's Nicky Rod versus a smaller guy like Fabricio Andre. So there's a massive weight discrepancy, but when you're taking the weight of the team on your shoulders as that smaller guy, suddenly him surviving, simply surviving-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... against a bigger opponent now becomes exciting.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So I think we can ... What Sakuraba did that made quintet so exciting is you can create a style of rules that somewhat makes the boring parts exciting. Just survival might mean that your team wins this, uh, series.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
So we're trying to reinvent sort of how grappling's viewed to even make those boring parts exciting.
- CWChris Williamson
Who are going to be the teams?
- CJCraig Jones
So we've got Atos, New Wave, 10th Planet, B Team, Pedigo. And then we decided, just due to the difficulty ... Like, there's a lot of teams out there, but they might not be able to fill five divisions. We decided to add in three region-based teams, so the Americas, Australia and Asia, and Europe and the UK. So we'll sort of ... Those will be filled with region-based guys 'cause it was about making sure that we get all the good athletes in there. 'Cause if ... A lot of teams, like say... A classic example would be Levi, who's made it to the final against, um-
- CWChris Williamson
Blue guy? Blue hair?
- CJCraig Jones
The blue-haired guy. Against Kade Ruotolo last year. He trains at my old team, Absolute MMA. Be tough for them to put in five guys. So we're like, "Well, we don't want to lose a guy like Levi, so we're going to have region-based teams." And then-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, that's cool. So you'll have this sort of Avengers assemble of people that aren't usually together.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. Yeah, we-
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe even fought against each other, maybe even be from rival gyms.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So they have to, uh, come together and basically take on these powerhouse team names. And then one other thing we threw in there was kind of like this idea of a wild card 'cause really there are maybe two or three teams in the world that would have five contenders at each weight division. So we said to each team, "Listen, we need four of your guys to be authentic members of your team, but you can pull in a wild card." So it's like we're still keeping to the team-versus-team nature.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
Some of it's region-based, but also you can pull in a wild card, and we exploited that fully by securing-
- CWChris Williamson
Who's your wild card?
- CJCraig Jones
... Victor Hugo, who's one of the biggest, best guys in the sport today. So we exploited that. We exploited that. I mean, we told all coaches out there early that, "Hey, you can pull in a wild card." We just got ahead of them. We jumped on Victor straightaway.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- 1:04:25 – 1:08:37
Reuniting With John Danaher
- CWChris Williamson
I saw a photo of you and John Danaher. Talk me through that meeting of the minds.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. So we had our falling out. We had the Danaher death squad, which I jumped aboard sort of late to the party, which was Eddie Cummings, Garry Tonon, Gordon Ryan, Nicky Ryan, Nicky Rod. I jumped in. I tore that team apart piece by piece from the inside, turning everyone against each other to exploit that into an opportunity to create the B Team, which we have here today. And that's obviously left a bad taste in John Danaher's mouth, but in the effort of getting them in the event... Because for CGI1, they supported ADCC instead. They were going after the legacy medals, and they did very good at ADCC. I will say it was a bit of an easy ADCC. We took most of the good guys, but we've managed to put our differences aside for the greater good. So New Wave will be submitting a team. Me and Gordon, on the other hand, have not put our differences aside, but John Danaher is El Jefe. He's the boss over there, so me and him have reconnected.
- CWChris Williamson
What was that like, getting to chat to him for the first time in a while?
- CJCraig Jones
That was good. I've, I've ran into him a couple times, but we never had a full conversation. But yeah, it was definitely good to make the past the past. You know what I mean? Like, uh, part of that conversation was, "Craig, you took things a little too far." I'll be like, "I'm guilty of fucking around sometimes," you know. Um, but when we had the conversation, yeah, he ... We're friends again, for sure.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. What do you think's the likelihood of Gordon turning up and fighting at CGI?
- CJCraig Jones
I mean, I've got a special cock chair waiting for him there in the audience. So, like, I think that's, that's gonna pull him in, you know. That's gonna call him. That's, that's-
- CWChris Williamson
You've just made it ... However likely it was, I think you've just made it slightly less likely.
- CJCraig Jones
The, the porcelain throne will be there waiting for him.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm gonna guess that you think that it's quite unlikely that it's gonna happen, then.
- CJCraig Jones
I think he'll be there, hey. I think ultimately, as much as you hate me, you should love your teammates more. And he is a great team member, great training partner. In my opinion, horrible human being. But in an effort to support his training partners, I imagine he'll wanna give them the best opportunity to win. And his presence and coaching ability-
- CWChris Williamson
But not competing.
- CJCraig Jones
Not competing.
- CWChris Williamson
You don't think that he, he would compete?
- CJCraig Jones
Uh, I think ... As far as I know, he's never gonna compete again. Yeah. And although I don't like the guy, great competitor, drew in the fans.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
Sad to see him leave.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
And although, uh, persistently harassed and bullied his teammate, Nicolas Meragli, who got ... Uh, he competed at ADCC, ultimately lost, he, he got injured in the process of losing, it is sad to lose two of those guys to the sport. Nicolas Meragli's shoulder injury is gonna keep him out for quite a long period of time, so-
- CWChris Williamson
What did he have happen to him?
- CJCraig Jones
So after (laughs) after posting many pictures saying that he was going to be the champion, he's going to win double gold, uh, attacking everyone else, criticizing everyone else. He got defeated by a Blue Belt. Was it a Blue Belt? I think she was a... Actually, take that back. Uh, he got defeated by a Purple Belt, but in the process of the, the hip toss, he posted his arm on the ground, destroyed everything in, in his shoulder. Really, really bad injury. I think, unfortunately a couple of the, uh, surgeries, difficult thing to come back from. Might need a trip to Colombia with some stem cells.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CJCraig Jones
But the-
- CWChris Williamson
It's the devil's breath.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. (laughs) Like, we could all use some devil's breath from time to time, but really, yeah, he's out for a while too, so we can't have him in the next CGI.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
And my- I mean, most of the, most of his theatrics, you know, like I just, like... First of all, I'm picking on Mer-Meregali 'cause English is his second language. He's coming in unequipped.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
Gordon, easy target. Most American human being on earth, you know what I mean? With the banter. So it is sad to lose them, not just from the banter perspective and the insult perspective, but they are great athletes and it would have been great to have them participate-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... in CGI2. People, people think I have a vendetta, I'm vindictive. There's only, and I won't say his name, there's only one person that can't compete in CGI2, but I don't give a fuck what you've said about me, anything. Go for it. I want-
- 1:08:37 – 1:11:49
Future Ambitions of CJI
- CWChris Williamson
What is the sort of future ambition for CGI? Like, what would be a great place for it to come in to land more money, bigger brackets, more viewership? Like, where, where are you trying to end up?
- CJCraig Jones
Where do we wanna end up? I mean, my goal is just to grow the sport. You know what I mean? Like, I've put so much effort into this sport. I've humiliated myself, I've been injured, I've wasted my life on jujitsu mats talking to people that have... can't hold a conversation. So I want this to amount to something. So I failed as an athlete. So the pivot would be as a promoter.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
And, um, we've had, we had some enemies that have now become friends for the first event. We have some, I wouldn't say enemies, but some big challenges coming up for the second event in terms of, I think, I contributed to the sport of jujitsu in a way that brought so much attention and eyes to that one competition, that now we've got some sharks circling, trying to take it over and monopolize it.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
So for me, now it's kind of a battle to make sure that we don't end up being monopolized and just some other product on the shelf. So really, it's like, uh, for me now, it's to ensure that there's a viable event that doesn't have exclusive contracts, that just wants the best athletes in the world to participate, put on a spectacle, exciting, sell-out for the fans, and that they have that alternative.
- CWChris Williamson
But surely there's only so... There's gonna be, what, five people that win ultimately? Which means that there's gonna be 40 people that don't win or whatever, or 35 people that don't win. So how are the 35 gonna keep taking over? Is it that while there's a lot of exposure at this sort of an event, you can monetize on the back of this?
- CJCraig Jones
Me, being the man that's never won anything, I would say losing is just a marketing pivot, you know. It's how you... It's not, it's not winning or losing that matters, it's how you lose-
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- CJCraig Jones
... and how you sell that loss.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So really, I mean, obviously great opportunity for exposure, and I don't wanna just be talking about, uh, we're paying them an exposure. But everyone, last year we paid everyone $10,001 to show up. This year, $10,002 to show up. So for the athletes that, sadly, is a significant amount of money for a lot of them. Jujitsu's like a top-heavy payment structure, but there are organizations out there that will overcompensate the top of the bill-
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- CJCraig Jones
... and severely underpay the bottom part. So really, like, for me-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
... it's like, um, protecting the next generation of athletes that might get caught up in the allure of being attached to big brands or b- sorry, big organizations and let that blind them from what jujitsu really is and how it's different to other sports. And we have a opportunity here-
- CWChris Williamson
Hm.
- CJCraig Jones
... to kind of prevent it being monopolized.
- CWChris Williamson
Isn't it interesting that a flagrant personal vanity project has now become some stalwart, like, protective fortress against big business coming and ruining a sport?
- CJCraig Jones
I mean, that's the thing really, is like everything I do is completely self-interes- self-interested, selfish, and for my own benefit. But when it comes to a talk show, we can sell it any way we want.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's repurpose that.
- CJCraig Jones
For the greater good.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, like you say, you know, it's not really what you're doing or why you're doing it, it's why you say you're doing it and whether or not people believe it.
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah, which is... I might pivot into politics too, run against everything.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- CJCraig Jones
Might need to take down his citizenship.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I, I, I only found
- 1:11:49 – 1:14:59
Craig’s Thoughts on Greg Souders
- CWChris Williamson
out about Greg Souder recently. Uh, he seems like an interesting guy. What do you know about him?
- CJCraig Jones
Interesting character. Yeah, he's the coach of the Misfits team for America. So he's putting together an American, uh, squad. So, like, I mean, I haven't gone too much into this as f- I... It's a, it's a difficult conversation to listen to, you know, people talking about different learning models in jujitsu. But yeah, I believe, from my understanding, his thought process is that you don't need to be just doing static, repetitive drilling and understa- and, like, being taught techniques. He's sort of given the credence over to the people's ability to solve problems themselves with, through the positional sparring.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So I mean, I don't think... I think the way, just like we do with CGI1, the way we sell is to create division and create sides for people to choose on, choose to be on, and a lot of hipses will choose to be on the unorthodox side of things. So it's like, I think basically a balance of the two is usually the best approach here. But I believe his persistence in his argument is c- making people re-evaluate how they teach, so I think ultimately he's a good influence on the sport.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Is there too much... You know, y- you're looking at somebody who has done a total of one session of Brazilian jujitsu in his life. But from a lot of my friends, it seems like a lot of time is spent drilling, uh, sort of carefully deconstructing moves and then slowly sort of building those back up.Is there a sort of tactical training hole in the world of most Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu coaching at the moment?
- CJCraig Jones
Yeah. I would say that most Jiu-Jitsu coaches aren't actually coaches, they're just instructors. They show moves. Whereas a coach would be something different. That's something I sort of realized, uh, being involved in MMA camps is that like, uh, a coach doesn't necessarily need to be better than the person they're training. And Jiu-Jitsu has a- this historical thought process where the better the competitor was, they assume that he's going to be a better instructor or coach for them. And I think that's sort of like a bit of a fallacy, where like some of the best guys teaching boxing, even wrestling, weren't necessarily the best competitors but they have a great way to break things down. John Danaher would be one of the best coaches ever. No history of Jiu-Jitsu competition.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
So I think that's a massive flaw in the sport of Jiu-Jitsu. But I personally would say that like, uh, in the early stages you need, you need to understand those moves, you need to be taught those moves. And then ultimately, as we get to the higher level, I believe problem-solving for yourself is much better. Because if I give you the answer, quite often I think people forget it. But if I se- create a situation in which you figure out a solution-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- CJCraig Jones
...you remember it. And I always say to guys, I'm like, "Look at the people leading this sport, and how dumb we are. They can... If they can figure it out, you can figure it out."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- CJCraig Jones
You know what I mean? Like, come to me with a more in-depth question than like, "How do I escape side control?" You don't give me exact circumstances in which I can give you guidance or set you on the right path.
Episode duration: 1:28:30
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