Gen Z Has A Dating Problem - Sadia Khan

1. 0:00 – 6:32

   The Widespread Belief That Love is Toxic

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Why did you get banned on Instagram?

   2. SKSadia Khan0:02

      (laughs) Actually, to, to be fair, I don't know fully, but from what I did some digging and I found out there was a, um, OnlyFans content creator who felt like I was pushing a narrative that goes against sex work, pornography, and OnlyFans, and so she pulled some strings, managed to get it banned. I also pulled some strings, managed to get back on. But I'm sure with my big mouth, I'll get myself in trouble soon, so I'm gonna make a vow, and I'm glad you're here to witness it, that I'm gonna try and stay out of trouble because I don't wanna lose my Instagram. It's actually a really great platform.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:34

      Okay.

   4. SKSadia Khan0:34

      (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson0:34

      Well, we'll ho- we'll see-

   6. SKSadia Khan0:35

      (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson0:35

      ... we'll see how you get on after today.

   8. SKSadia Khan0:37

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:37

      So one of the things that I've noticed recently is this sort of widespread belief that love i- is... It's toxic.

   10. SKSadia Khan0:44

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson0:45

       Why do you think these sort of modern representations of female stories are so devoid of love? You know, looking at the Barbie movie, there's these previews of the Snow White movie coming up-

   12. SKSadia Khan0:56

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson0:56

       ... Rachel Ziegler, Zeigler, doesn't really look like she's pro-love.

   14. SKSadia Khan1:00

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:00

       What do you think is going on?

   16. SKSadia Khan1:01

       Well, I think the demise of marriage and long-term relationships, what that means is... With relationships, a bit like when you watch a movie, and the whole movie can be great, but if the ending is shit, we'll say, "Movies are shit. That movie was awful." Similarly, if the ending is fantastic, you'll say, "That whole movie was great." Usually, the people pushing this narrative have just come out of a negative relationship, so they define the entire course of love and the entire course of relationships by their particular ending. And if the ending was terrible, love is terrible, and they label it like that. And they also like to run with the narrative that, "My ex is a narcissist," is their favorite phrase on the planet at the moment. What that does is kind of devoid us of the responsibility in causing that toxicity, blame it on someone else, and then blame love as a separate entity as a cause for our pain when really, it's our behaviors. So the love isn't toxic, it's how we behave in love and how we behave when vulnerable that creates toxicity. But it's easier to just say that love is this really dangerous emotion and we should avoid it at all costs and always keep our armor up just in case love comes at us and kills us, when really, it's our poor decision-making or our behaviors that cause love to be toxic.

   17. CWChris Williamson2:08

       Yeah. I... It's strange to me that it appears to be like a top-down narrative as well. It's not just individuals rejecting love-

   18. SKSadia Khan2:14

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson2:15

       ... it's also in movies-

   20. SKSadia Khan2:16

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson2:16

       ... it's in culture as well.

   22. SKSadia Khan2:17

       Yeah, and I, I do, I do think there is, uh, you know, there is a lot to be gained from convincing people that love is toxic and you don't need it because independence breeds more customers. Uh, whether it's on social media, whether it's on porn sites, whether it's on cosmetic surgery, independence creates customers. So I think that it makes total sense from a marketing perspective to just breed the idea that love is no longer necessary. I saw a lot of interviews from the star of Snow White where she was almost making digs at what is actually quite a sweet fairytale, but, but trying to make it into digs, and I just thought, um, I'm guessing the narrative of seeing love as weak is being propagated in the culture today. And I don't know how I feel about that.

   23. CWChris Williamson2:58

       Yeah, there's a, a quote from that interview. "She's not going to be saved by the prince. She's not going to be dreaming about true love. She's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be. The prince in the original movie stalked her."

   24. SKSadia Khan3:14

       Wh- what... Why would you sign up to a film if that's what you believe wa- was the message behind it? I'm guessing, uh, because here's what they're taking is... I'm not saying Disney movies were great for our perception of love either, but the idea of mocking connection and mocking... And let's say, for example, somebody does save you and you're in a bad position, but they do save you. Why is that so negative? If somebody's going through something and you find a partner and they help you heal and you both help each other heal, why is that a negative thing? I mean, I, I, I... Maybe I've got it wrong, but the appe- the narrative I'm getting is it's almost seen as embarrassing to fall in love when really, it's an essential component of, um, o- of our life. We all need it.

   25. CWChris Williamson3:55

       It seems to me the advice for men suggests that falling in love makes you irrational and weak-

   26. SKSadia Khan4:02

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson4:03

       ... and for women, it makes you subservient and dependent.

   28. SKSadia Khan4:06

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson4:06

       And it's almost the opposite of what both sexes want to have, right?

   30. SKSadia Khan4:11

       Yeah.
2. 6:32 – 10:14

   The Safety of the Inner Citadel

   1. CWChris Williamson6:33

      There's this idea called the inner citadel that people retreat into-

   2. SKSadia Khan6:36

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson6:36

      ... if you can't get what you want, you must teach yourself to want what you can get.

   4. SKSadia Khan6:40

      Right.

   5. CWChris Williamson6:40

      And that's kind of what you're describing.

   6. SKSadia Khan6:42

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson6:42

      You know, if I tell myself that, uh, all women are awful, then it doesn't force me to try and get into a relationship-

   8. SKSadia Khan6:49

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson6:49

      ... and therefore, I don't need to feel the pain of heartbreak.

   10. SKSadia Khan6:52

       Exactly.

   11. CWChris Williamson6:52

       If I tell myself that jobs are completely pointless, then I can sit in unemployment and not be concerned about not making progress-

   12. SKSadia Khan7:00

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson7:00

       ... toward my goals.

   14. SKSadia Khan7:00

       Exactly. But the problem with that is, it prevents you from fulfilling your potential in life. Human beings are designed with the potential to love and nurture one another. And whenever we cap our potential, whether that's through, uh, like we cap our potential physically, emotionally, psychologically, anything that involves capping our potential will lead to a slow and steady depression that will signal to yourself that you're not fulfilling your potential, and it will come out and manifest as a form of depression. So when you kind of ward off love, you're warding off your own full potential, and therefore, you will see an increase in your depression and anxiety. They even find studies where women, when, um, they hold their partner's hand during labor, they experience less pain. That's how much we're designed to be in love. It's actually a, a pain relief. It's an anti-anxiety. They found loads of studies where they see, uh, people that, you know, sleep with lots of people in a communion, they sleep better. They don't have any, like micro-awakenings in the night. So we're, our body craves it. Whether you psychologically convince yourself that you don't want it, your body will still speak to you and tell you that you need it. So unfortunately, it doesn't work.

   15. CWChris Williamson8:05

       The micro-awakenings thing is really interesting.

   16. SKSadia Khan8:07

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson8:07

       I remember learning it from Johann Hari, that it's basically-

   18. SKSadia Khan8:12

       That, yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson8:12

       ... a, um, it's like a measure of comfort-

   20. SKSadia Khan8:14

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson8:15

       ... that people have, and safety, right?

   22. SKSadia Khan8:16

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson8:16

       So, um, 15,000 years ago, you have gone out hunting, and you decide to sleep in a cave that is away from where you usually would.

   24. SKSadia Khan8:25

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson8:26

       It's adaptive for you, as this nomadic person away from home, to not go into quite as deep sleep because you can't be quite as assured that this particular location is safe.

   26. SKSadia Khan8:34

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson8:34

       It's one of the reasons why people get such bad night's sleep in hotels.

   28. SKSadia Khan8:37

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson8:38

       Because even if the room is quiet, and it's dark, and there's no LED blinking, and room service doesn't come and accidentally knock on your door-

   30. SKSadia Khan8:45

       Yeah.
3. 10:14 – 17:38

   Consequences of the Rise of Sex Work

   1. CWChris Williamson10:14

      on the rise of escorts and sex work? I think it's pretty fascinating-

   2. SKSadia Khan10:19

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson10:19

      ... to look at the psychology of the women who do it, and the men who pay for it.

   4. SKSadia Khan10:22

      Yeah. Well, the women who do it, uh, usually, and, uh, I think it's probably less now, but, uh, there's a h- a, a big history of childhood sexual abuse. And the reason why child abuse often then becomes monetized sex work is because when we are violated as a child, men or women, when we, when something is violated from us, the only way your ego kind of makes sense of what happens to you is to minimize the importance and significance of what was stolen from you. So if I was, uh, abused sexually, if I then minimize the importance of sex and then take some control by monetizing it and saying, "I'm now in control of my body. I'm either gonna be hyper-promiscuous or I'm going to monetize it," what it does is minimizes the significance of sex, and therefore, I don't have to deal with the trauma I experienced. I now see sex as just an activity. And therefore, if I was abused, it's not that serious. And so the psychology of them is usually coming from a broken place, and also, the other thing that they struggle with is knowing what loyalty looks like in a relationship. They don't see it as an essential component because they've monetized sex and, um, taken away the emotion c- emo- uh, element to it. So it becomes very difficult for them to be sexually loyal to their partner. It's almost like they see sex as a bit as well an activity, and if they do it with somebody else, why would that bother you? They don't understand the process. So they end up being quite emotionally disconnected, very transactional, uh, with their partners, and the relationships become, the g- the relationships don't really last very long, unfortunately. They're devoid of emotions, and then it translates into their parenting as well.

   5. CWChris Williamson11:50

      What about the psychology of the men who pay for it?

   6. SKSadia Khan11:53

      Um, the psychology of the man that actually goes towards it is usually he is somebody who's highly avoidant to begin with. There was some emotional disconnect in their parents and their household. So, when you g- want to court a beautiful woman in the real world, she requires some emotional connection first and foremost, or at least at some point. Now if you've, uh, fi- if you find it hard to experience emotional connection and you have the money to go from pornography to escorts, you skip the emotion component and go straight to escorts. Uh, basically, escorts are, uh, uh, porn addicts with money.Yeah. E- essentially, that is for them. And that low self-esteem, that intense low self-esteem, um, with the men that pay for escorts means that they don't believe they can access a woman of, of that caliber in real life, so let me at least pay him for it and therefore I don't have to experience rejection. The reason why emotional, kind of disconnect is so important for the customer, is a man that understands emotional intelligence and understands a woman's emotions wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a woman he knows doesn't want to be there. A guy that normally has emotional intelligence will think, "Oh God, she's probably not enjoying this." And, "Oh God, what trauma led her to get here? I don't wanna have sex with somebody who doesn't wanna have sex with me." But the man who skipped that emotional intelligence and just wants pleasure will not even think about the emotional trauma that got her to this position and just think, "As long as she pleases me, I don't really care what it took to get her here."

   7. CWChris Williamson13:19

      Mm.

   8. SKSadia Khan13:19

      So that emotional disconnect in both of them, which is why they often fall in love with each other. "Fall in love." Yeah. They often do end up together and this is what I really hate about the narrative that they tell you, that on these red pill podcasts, that men want virgins, men want good girls. The amount of successful men that fall in love with the escorts is because they allow him to not emotionally connect but then still boost his ego, which is what he's... a dream come true. Whereas another woman requires that emotional connection before she can boost your ego. So the escort is just providing him with an ego boost with p- bearing in mind his emotional disabilities.

   9. CWChris Williamson13:55

      That's interesting.

   10. SKSadia Khan13:56

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson13:56

       I noticed during-

   12. SKSadia Khan13:57

       Is it... Can I ask, is it big in, in America as well? 'Cause it's huge-

   13. CWChris Williamson14:00

       (sighs)

   14. SKSadia Khan14:00

       ... where I live.

   15. CWChris Williamson14:01

       I haven't seen it.

   16. SKSadia Khan14:02

       Okay.

   17. CWChris Williamson14:02

       I mean, Dubai I think is a, a very particular, uh, Petri dish of, of like unique dating.

   18. SKSadia Khan14:08

       Uh-huh.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:08

       Maybe Miami. I mean, in fact-

   20. SKSadia Khan14:10

       Miami I would imagine.

   21. CWChris Williamson14:10

       ... I would almost be certain with Miami.

   22. SKSadia Khan14:12

       And London is, London is getting there as well. It's getting-

   23. CWChris Williamson14:13

       Okay.

   24. SKSadia Khan14:13

       ... it's just as rampant in London as well.

   25. CWChris Williamson14:15

       I'm noticing that you are in all of these locations.

   26. SKSadia Khan14:17

       (laughs)

   27. CWChris Williamson14:17

       If you move to Miami too you will be the common denominator between them.

   28. SKSadia Khan14:19

       Maybe I'm the problem.

   29. CWChris Williamson14:20

       Maybe you are.

   30. SKSadia Khan14:21

       Maybe I bring, I bring the heat.
4. 17:38 – 26:39

   Psychology of Slut-Shaming

   1. CWChris Williamson17:38

      come to reflect on about the psychology of slut-shaming?

   2. SKSadia Khan17:42

      Um, it's a way of validating poor decision-making. So when we use the word you're s- slut-shaming, what we're really saying is, "Stop pointing out the flaws in my flawed behavior." Essentially, we need a society filled with guilt, shame, and regret. We need to be aware of these emotions. If we remove shame from our society and we call it ph- uh fat-shaming, slut-shaming, essentially we find a way of normalizing what is abnormal behavior.And when we do that, we then become reckless. We need guilt, shame and regret to help direct us into making proper decision-making, responsible decision-making, healthy decision-making. So whenever you hear the word, that's fat shaming and that's slut shaming, if the word before it is negative, then the actual, th- the concept is broken.

   3. CWChris Williamson18:29

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   4. SKSadia Khan19:29

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:29

      Well, what would you say to the people who say, "We've had a sexual revolution, Sadia. We don't need... Uh, uh, like, girls can sleep with guys as much as they want to."

   6. SKSadia Khan19:37

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson19:38

      "This is the new world. Get up to date now. It's 2023."

   8. SKSadia Khan19:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson19:42

      Why should it be the case that that is, uh, negative, shameful, guilt-riddled behavior?

   10. SKSadia Khan19:48

       Because you're the one saying that men are trash, and yet you're sleeping with them all day, every day. You're the o- and it's the women that sleep around the most that will say men are trash. The women in healthy relationships are not usually the ones saying that. So if this formula was working, why are you allowing trash to enter your vagina?

   11. CWChris Williamson20:07

       I had an idea.

   12. SKSadia Khan20:07

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson20:07

       I had a theory about the game theory of slut shaming-

   14. SKSadia Khan20:10

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson20:10

       ... and the game theory of simp shaming as well-

   16. SKSadia Khan20:12

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson20:12

       ... I wanna teach you about.

   18. SKSadia Khan20:13

       Okay.

   19. CWChris Williamson20:13

       So, as far as I can see, um, m- more slut shaming comes from women than it does from men, right?

   20. SKSadia Khan20:20

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson20:20

       Which might be on the surface surprising, but a bit more inspection and it makes sense.

   22. SKSadia Khan20:25

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson20:26

       The reason that more slut shaming comes from women than it does from men-

   24. SKSadia Khan20:28

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson20:29

       ... is because women are invested in other women not lowering the price of sex-

   26. SKSadia Khan20:35

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson20:36

       ... too low.

   28. SKSadia Khan20:36

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson20:37

       Men would happily-

   30. SKSadia Khan20:38

       (laughs) .
5. 26:39 – 35:37

   Why Nice Guys Suffer

   1. CWChris Williamson26:39

      to me about the problem with nice guys, then, talking about simps.

   2. SKSadia Khan26:42

      Essentially, what nice guys do is, what they suffer with is not that they're too nice or anything, it's just that they have incredibly weak boundaries when it comes to women. They simply, and not actually, not just women. It, it could be anybody. What they do is they lack a, a lot of masculinity, and what they do is they blame the fact that they're so nice as to why they can't get women. But it's not about being nice. It's about a lack of masculinity. And one of the best ways to establish masculinity is placing boundaries, particularly with women. When you don't like a behavior, you don't roll over and allow it to continue and then give her more in order t- for you to get her. You set a boundary and you have a willingness to walk away. Nice guys, what happens is they don't like to exert their boundaries, and they don't have a willingness to walk away. So, what ends up happening is their nice nature becomes a reason for resentment because women don't like it. They actually feel angry when you're too nice to them because then they don't feel protected. They feel like you're weak. If you let a woman make all the decisions for you, she'll slowly start to hate you, because she'll feel like she has to raise you and she'll lose respect for you. So, you're better... What we truly want is not a man that just is, like, chaotic. We just want a man who we can trust makes good decisions. He's not the nice guy. He's the one that we'll submit to. But the one that doesn't trust his own decision-making and we have to do it and he comes across as being nice, essentially, he's seen as weak.

   3. CWChris Williamson27:59

      Yeah, uh, overly pliable-

   4. SKSadia Khan28:02

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson28:02

      ... is the term that I think about.

   6. SKSadia Khan28:04

      But it's hard. Could you, like, how do you, as a man, make sure that you're nice and not weak? Like, it must be difficult because in this day and age that if you try and be, like, a bit more assertive, the, I'm guessing it t- gets a lot of pushback. It's, it's hard for a man. How d- uh...

   7. CWChris Williamson28:18

      I don't know. I think you'd be surprised. I think that, you know, the line of acceptable behavior is way wider than most people think.

   8. SKSadia Khan28:27

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson28:27

      Right? You know, y- you can be assertive in a powerful, reassuring way without being a tyrant.

   10. SKSadia Khan28:37

       Right.

   11. CWChris Williamson28:37

       It's pretty, it's pretty easy to achieve.

   12. SKSadia Khan28:39

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson28:39

       Right? I, I, I don't think that it's that hard. But I also understand that a lot of people don't have a massive amount of firsthand experience.

   14. SKSadia Khan28:48

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson28:48

       They, they're spending all of their time learning about things through the internet.

   16. SKSadia Khan28:51

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson28:51

       They don't actually have the... You need to be skillful and nimble, right?

   18. SKSadia Khan28:54

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson28:54

       To be able to... It, flirting and dealing with even the same sex, let alone the opposite sex, is like a delicate balance, right? It's a bit of a dance. It's a bit of-

   20. SKSadia Khan29:03

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson29:03

       ... teasing. Is it too far? Is it too much? Like, you know, it's, it requires experience. And most people don't have the opportunity to develop that.

   22. SKSadia Khan29:11

       A- and it's really easy to have the willingness to walk away when you're somebody that has a lot of alternatives, and it doesn't just mean other women. It could be a lifestyle that is alternative to being settled down. But when you're somebody that doesn't have many alternatives, the willingness to walk away decreases. So, I do understand it's very difficult for men to have that. But without the willingness to walk away, she'll look for a man that does have the m- willingness to walk away. She'll look for a man that does have boundaries because we need them as women.

   23. CWChris Williamson29:35

       It's strange, and I also understand that it must be ruthless to think, "Oh, well, I would really like a nice guy." Maybe your last relationship was with some dude that was in very avoidant-

   24. SKSadia Khan29:45

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson29:45

       ... uh, in, like, masculine in a non-supporting way.

   26. SKSadia Khan29:49

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson29:50

       And you think, "Okay, well, I'll, I'll go for a nice guy. I'll go for a guy that's g- a bit more pliable and a lot more agreeable." And then, if what you're saying is true and you end up resenting them-

   28. SKSadia Khan29:58

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson29:58

       ... and you go, "I, that, that wasn't what I wanted either."

   30. SKSadia Khan30:01

       Yeah.
6. 35:37 – 46:05

   Can Men & Women Be Friends?

   1. CWChris Williamson35:37

      Do you think men and women can be friends?

   2. SKSadia Khan35:39

      Yes, I do. Do you think they can be friends?

   3. CWChris Williamson35:42

      I've seen it go both ways.

   4. SKSadia Khan35:43

      Uh-huh.

   5. CWChris Williamson35:44

      More times than not it seems to mess up.

   6. SKSadia Khan35:47

      (laughs) Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson35:48

      But, uh, it's, it's not impossible. I've got a number of friends who have managed to do that totally platonically.

   8. SKSadia Khan35:54

      Mm-hmm. Do you have female friends?

   9. CWChris Williamson35:57

      Do I have female friends? I do, I do have some, yeah-

   10. SKSadia Khan35:59

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson35:59

       ... but they're mostly kind of from the industry, from podcasting.

   12. SKSadia Khan36:02

       Yeah. Uh-huh.

   13. CWChris Williamson36:03

       Uh, Mikhaila Peterson's probably one of my closest friends on the planet.

   14. SKSadia Khan36:07

       That's great.

   15. CWChris Williamson36:07

       Um...

   16. SKSadia Khan36:09

       Aw.

   17. CWChris Williamson36:09

       Yeah, so it's some, but it's-

   18. SKSadia Khan36:11

       But it's not common?

   19. CWChris Williamson36:12

       ... it's, I think it's tough. I think it's tough, like-

   20. SKSadia Khan36:14

       What do you think makes it tough about having female friendships?

   21. CWChris Williamson36:16

       Well, just that... The line between what you have and what you're familiar with when it comes to guys and girls and the line of romantic desirability is pretty fine-

   22. SKSadia Khan36:28

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson36:29

       ... and it only needs to be confused by one party-

   24. SKSadia Khan36:32

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson36:32

       ... for the relation-, for the friendship to break down.

   26. SKSadia Khan36:34

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson36:35

       Right? It doesn't need both people to want it to happ- if both people want it to happen, the friendship turns into a relationship.

   28. SKSadia Khan36:40

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson36:40

       If one person wants it to happen, the friendship's no longer a friendship.

   30. SKSadia Khan36:43

       You're right.
7. 46:05 – 55:28

   The Many Failures of the Sexual Revolution

   1. CWChris Williamson46:05

      There was this, um, massive debate, did the sexual revolution fail that happened this week in LA.

   2. SKSadia Khan46:11

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson46:12

      And one of my friends, Louise Perry, was on one of the sides. Grimes was opposite her.

   4. SKSadia Khan46:16

      (laughs) .

   5. CWChris Williamson46:16

      Uh, and Tim Dillon was there, it was mediated by Barry Weiss. And, um, Rob Henderson, one of my friends, tweeted this earlier on, it's amazing. He says, "There's lots of discussion at the sexual revolution debate about whether the revolution failed men or failed women, or helped men more than women, or helped women more than men. Nobody asked whether the sexual revolution failed children. People already know it's too depressing of a topic."

   6. SKSadia Khan46:39

      Yeah, absolutely accurate. It basically failed both genders, but when you fail both genders you fail children because they're the remnants of two broken people. So I think, uh, it's massively failed children, but I think in some ways it's definitely favored the man that has no desire to invest and have responsibility. That's the only man that it favors from this, is he gets a bunch of women to have low enough self-esteem that they will be able to allow him access without any investment. Meanwhile, while he's going, he can then go on to meet the girl he actually wants to be with, whilst this girl he's happy to come at 4:00 AM after a night out. So it's the opposite of feminism. It's allowing men free rein over females, and whilst investing very, very little. I don't know who tricked women into thinking that this is beneficial, but whoever did is probably a man.

   7. CWChris Williamson47:27

      And then down the line from that, they've also managed to trick women into believing that it's fine for the guy to stay at home and play video games and make sure that the sandwiches are done all day, you can go out and earn the money.

   8. SKSadia Khan47:37

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson47:37

      I mean, it's like, it's such a trope, but people make these funny tweets online about how the patriarchy is so powerful it conned women into providing for men as well.

   10. SKSadia Khan47:44

       Uh, yeah, and the other thing that, and I know I spoke about this quite recently, is that the, um, a- like the pushing the bisexuality which only again benefits-

   11. CWChris Williamson47:52

       What's that? I haven't heard you talk about this.

   12. SKSadia Khan47:53

       Um, well, in pornography there is a lot of emphasis on girl on girl, and there's a lot of threesomes and so on and so forth, and in my personal experience seeing a lot of straight women engage in threesome activities m- primarily to please their hu- um, the man, but they'll convince themselves that they like girls, but they only seem to like girls in the presence of their partner that suggested the threesome. And they only seem to like the girl that their partner had an insight into ch- selecting. And then, and you know it's not true bisexuality because when their husband or their partner's not there, they no longer have this interest in women. And also when they really care about the guy, they don't engage in the threesomes, and I know when they love the guy a lot they don't want to share him. But if you were truly bisexual you wouldn't have that jealousy because you'd be like this is an equal playing field. I also get to touch the girl. But what I think that's happened is, um, the rise in kind of experimenting, sexual pr- uh, experimenting, is again only benefiting men. I know so many men that are in open relationships where he can sleep with other women but he can't sleep with other men but she can sleep with other women. Who benefits from that? He gets to, he gets to-

   13. CWChris Williamson48:52

       Well, that's al- so the presumption is that they're not actually bisexual, right?

   14. SKSadia Khan48:56

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson48:56

       It does seem, looking at some of the data, like... women are more bisexual than men are.

   16. SKSadia Khan49:02

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson49:03

       Uh, genuinely bisexual-

   18. SKSadia Khan49:04

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson49:04

       ... at least self- self-identifying outside of relationships.

   20. SKSadia Khan49:07

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson49:08

       But yes, I would- I would agree that I was surprised with this rise of the one-sided open relationship-

   22. SKSadia Khan49:14

       And the threesomes.

   23. CWChris Williamson49:15

       ... in- in Austin, there's a lot of-

   24. SKSadia Khan49:17

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson49:17

       ... marriages where we're open but it's only girls, and it's only when we're together.

   26. SKSadia Khan49:22

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson49:23

       Um, I- maybe- maybe this is what they want, but-

   28. SKSadia Khan49:26

       I- I would be curious what the data would be amongst women who have never watched porn and their level of bisexuality. I would imagine women who have never watched porn, they're bis- they- they would have lower rates of bisexuality than women who are addicts or watch regularly, uh, uh, and who are partnered with men who s- also make the suggestion about threesomes. I would wonder how many women who, without the external influences, because we've been taught for many, many years in the recent data that homosexuality and bisexuality is innate and it's something you're born with, but if the advent of pornography increased it, then how- it must have some external forces behind it.

   29. CWChris Williamson50:01

       Yeah. Well, there's- one of the legitimations for this is the left-handedness argument, and it's used for trans people but it might apply here. It's kind of a useful frame, so I'll tell everybody-

   30. SKSadia Khan50:15

       Yeah.
8. 55:28 – 1:09:25

   The Growing Trend of Childlessness

   1. CWChris Williamson55:28

      5% more-

   2. SKSadia Khan55:29

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson55:29

      ... than women of the same age group. Almost 40% have experienced depression, 25% feel a deep anger. There is a lot of publicity, quite rightly, about women and childlessness, but men are very mute about this. And that was in The Guardian.

   4. SKSadia Khan55:43

      Oh, wow. Um, and, and I completely agree because one thing that men, uh, online, their voice online to kind of shame women is, "Well, you don't have kids. You don't have kids." But unfortunately, who suffers more from when not, when they don't have kids, what they find is women without kids and without marriage earn, I think, about 70% more than men that don't have marriage and kids because marriage and kids gives men a, a purpose and meaning that they can't derive from anything else. It gives them the motivation to work harder, it gives them the motivation to do those hard jobs that pay more, it gives them a, a will to live. Um, with women, we can still find connections with our friends and family and parents, and we can f- we can spread out our connections. But if you look at most men, like if we look at your fathers and, like, you know, in that generation, without their wives, they're a bit lost. I know my dad would not know what to do with his day if my mom wasn't around. And at the, as they age, one of the things that doctors always say, the first thing that as you, as you get older and you go, uh, go to the doctors, um, they'll say to you, "Have you got a wife?" And even with my dad, when they do a checkup, they, "Have you got a wife?" They check, because why? Because the rate of healing after surgery is faster and quicker when you have a wife. And your rate of recovery from cancer is better when you have a wife. Somebody checking in on you does a lot for a man because they don't get that from their social network as much as women do. So a woman aging alone, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but it's, she's more adapted to it than a man aging alone who then starts to self-sabotage, and actually kind of, uh, life becomes a slow suicide for them.

   5. CWChris Williamson57:09

      I had a look at Dr. Robert Waldinger, the guy who is currently heading the longest ever longitudinal study of happiness.

   6. SKSadia Khan57:17

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson57:18

      Um, and marriage seems to add about four years of-

   8. SKSadia Khan57:24

      Oh, wow.

   9. CWChris Williamson57:24

      ... lifespan to a man.

   10. SKSadia Khan57:25

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson57:26

       For a woman, it's roundabout the same.

   12. SKSadia Khan57:27

       (laughs) Oh.

   13. CWChris Williamson57:27

       Um, so men get, you know, through all of the... Marriage is a terrible deal for guys, she's gonna take everything in the divorce. And don't get me wrong, you know-

   14. SKSadia Khan57:35

       Yeah, it's terrible.

   15. CWChris Williamson57:35

       ... there's a lot of divorce, and it's-

   16. SKSadia Khan57:36

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson57:36

       ... it's, it's not great for either party. But the deal for men is really fucking good.

   18. SKSadia Khan57:42

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson57:42

       You wanna live four years longer? Like-

   20. SKSadia Khan57:43

       (laughs) And earn more.

   21. CWChris Williamson57:43

       ... find a partner.

   22. SKSadia Khan57:44

       And responsible more. But one thing I would say is that the family laws are so horrible in certain countries, and I'm a big advocate for marriage, but mainly because I come from a spiritual and religious background. But from a non-religious background, I can see why it seems like a death sentence to get the law involved and to get married because she can walk away with a lot, even if, like, she was not to blame. So I can understand where the fear comes from, but you almost have to take that risk in order to get the reward of a stable, responsible life.

   23. CWChris Williamson58:12

       I think the risk is, is, the risk is increasing, and the reward has stayed the same.

   24. SKSadia Khan58:16

       Uh, but it, the risk can be mitigated by good selection. When you start trusting your decisions, you'll be less likely to be fearful of these consequences. But when you make poor decisions, of course everything is a risk.

   25. CWChris Williamson58:28

       Why do you think there's this generalized culture of anti-children and family creation at the moment?

   26. SKSadia Khan58:36

       I wonder where that's stemming from. I do think it's a sad reality, and I don't know where that's coming from. I just think the reality is there's so many alternatives to having kids now. You can travel, you can really become something. If you wanna become famous, you can become famous. You can travel the world. You can make a lot of money. You can do all of these things. But, you know, uh, if you speak to people who have even, you know, scored goals in the World Cup, they'll still tell you that their b- best moment of their life is when their child was born. So I think it's a really negative thing to place, um, to kind of p- put on society. I think the reality is when you know that you're going to have kids, you have to take more responsibility of your life. You have to save more money, you have to look after your health. It gives you a will to live. Now, to remove that from you is a, is a slow and steady self-sabotage. When you don't have any children for the rest of your life and you think you're never gonna have them, essentially you could be a car wreck, and no one's gonna watch you. Whereas when you have children, it's an automatic therapy. You have to fix your traumas. You have to fix your self-sabotaging behaviors. So you're depriving yourself of reaching your full potential when you completely write that off, I, I believe, but I could be wrong with that.

   27. CWChris Williamson59:38

       I, y- you're preaching to the choir. I think that-

   28. SKSadia Khan59:40

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson59:40

       ... it's really great. All of my friends that have become fathers, they've stepped up in a way that I- I'm impressed by. Like-

   30. SKSadia Khan59:47

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:07:59