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Hacking Your Psychology to Do Hard Things Consistently - Dr Mike Israetel

Go see Chris live in America - https://chriswilliamson.live Dr Mike Israetel is a Professor of Exercise and Sport Science at Lehman College and the Co-Founder of Renaissance Periodization. How do you boost motivation and actually follow through on the things you know you should do, but don’t feel like doing? The answer isn’t more stimulants, thankfully, it’s something far more grounded in neuroscience and behaviour. Today, Dr Mike Israetel breaks down the science of willpower in a way that works for the average person and can even help make your daily life much more productive. Expect to learn the science behind willpower, habits & motivation, the de facto two kinds of things you should be doing with your time, how to know when its time to do things you actually feel like doing versus making yourself do things you don’t feel like doing, how to integrate habits that improve your life and get rid of the ones that don’t serve you, how to improve your willpower, how to become more antifragile and build your resilience, and much more… - 0:00 - Why Willpower is Such a Buzzing Topic 5:01 - Things You Feel Like Doing vs Things You Don't Feel Like Doing 15:14 - The Importance of Inspiration When Getting Things Done 24:22 - We Need To Say Yes to More Experiences 42:09 - The Key to Choosing Concrete Goals 51:03 - Intention is Critical to Success 01:02:27 - Discipline Looks Like Holding Yourself Accountable 01:17:58 - The Biggest Mistakes When Making Habits 01:36:47 - What Decisions Can Make Our Habits Stick? 01:47:20 - How Can Rest and Recovery Enhance Habits, Goals and Willpower? 02:08:23 - Building Resilience Through the Process of Becoming - Get 10% off Echo’s Hydrogen Flask at https://echowater.com/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get the best bloodwork analysis in America at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D, and more from AG1 at https://ag1.info/modernwisdom - Get access to every episode 10 hours before YouTube by subscribing for free on Spotify - https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn or Apple Podcasts - https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books here - https://chriswillx.com/books/ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic here - https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact/

Chris WilliamsonhostDr Mike Israetelguest
Jul 21, 20252h 19mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 5:01

    Why Willpower is Such a Buzzing Topic

    1. CW

      I wanted to talk about the science of willpower, habits, motivation, some of the buzziest of topics at the moment. Why do you think this is such a popular area of discussion for people on the internet?

    2. MI

      You know, I'm really happy that it's a popular area of discussion on the internet. The internet has (laughs) plenty of stuff on there that is kind of just junk. Most of my stuff, for example. Like what is it, what am I really mostly about? Vanity, you know, that sucks. But, um, it's really awesome that so many people, at least by search volume, seem to be interested in motivation and habits and willpower because that tells me that people are doing two things. One, recognizing that they want success, uh, or, uh, y- to achieve some goals. And two is recognizing that, like, their motivational structure is a potential limiting factor to that success. And so if you're like, "Oh yeah, things in the outside world are important, and I'm gonna try to architect myself to be better at them," man, like, that really is a great thing and really does set you up for a significant amount of more success than you would if you never asked the question of like, "How do, how do I get maximally motivated?" And you just kind of assumed that you, uh, were, uh, uh, like, whatever motivation level you have, that's just kind of what you're, you're doing. Like, it's kind of default.

    3. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MI

      I had a, a situation today. I was, earlier I was working on my, my, n- my next book. Yes, it's an adult, adult novel. (laughs) Yeah.

    5. CW

      Can I be on the cover?

    6. MI

      It's a gay adult novel.

    7. CW

      I'm on the cover.

    8. MI

      Yeah, I, I thought your people already signed it.

    9. CW

      Ah.

    10. MI

      Correct. There's a cl- two clones of you on the cover and making love. And they... But love, I don't mean lust, I mean love, Chris. And you can s- f- you can feel the love. Any- anyway, I digress.

    11. CW

      Yeah.

    12. MI

      So, I was writing, and it took me, like, um, uh, like, a minute or two to really get in the groove. And, uh, during a f- a few times during that one specific time during that minute or two, I was like, "Oh, my stupid brain. Like, get focused already. Look what's wrong with me. I have super bad attention deficit disorder. I suck." And then I was like, "Oh wait, wait, like, um, first of all, that was dumb 'cause it was just a matter of getting in a flow state, and it's always rocky at first. But second of all, now I'm thinking about it like, okay, there's ways to improve your attention span."

    13. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    14. MI

      "And if I just said, well, this is my limitation and this is just who I am, okay, fine. I'll get some stuff done. But if I ask the next question of like, okay, I know that my ability to focus is a limiting factor in my success, so is my motivation, et cetera, how can I attend to those factors and do at least two things? One, kind of understand the world of those factors to at least kind of speak the language, which is something we're gonna figure out how to do today. And two, take what I need from that and try really junior league implementing it in my life? And then if I do that, hey, maybe I'll have some more success. Then I can come back, refine the process, and do better things."

    15. CW

      It's interesting that nobody, or very few people would say, "Well, this is the deadlift that I have."

    16. MI

      Yeah. (laughs)

    17. CW

      "This, this deadlift that I have-"

    18. MI

      It's my dad lift.

    19. CW

      "... it's kind of a, a part of my sense of self."

    20. MI

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      You know, "It's very closely tied..." I had this when I started working with addiction coach, addiction coach on-

    22. MI

      Oh, I thought you was gonna be on some other shit right now, Chris.

    23. CW

      Hey.

    24. MI

      Like, what for, bro? You're like, "What not for, man? Austin rips you up, bro."

    25. CW

      Slinging it. Uh, when I started working with my speech coach, Miles, (laughs) uh, some of my friends said, "Well, dude, you're gonna lose the way that you speak, you know, the way that you know. What about, what about your natural speaking cadence?" And I thought, "Well, it's in-"

    26. MI

      Addiction coach, that's gotta be like nails on a chalkboard level of confidence, right?

    27. CW

      I imagine so, because in, in his opinion, and in my opinion too, there are, uh, more and less precise ways to make words come out of your face.

    28. MI

      Yes.

    29. CW

      In the same way as you saying, "Hey, you're a, a saxophone player or a singer and you've started working with a teacher, but what about your natural way?" It's like, my natural way of playing the saxophone fucking sucks, dude.

    30. MI

      Yeah.

  2. 5:01 – 15:14

    Things You Feel Like Doing vs Things You Don't Feel Like Doing

    1. CW

      of itself. Okay, there's two things you can be doing with your time, stuff that you wanna be doing right now, things you feel like doing, and stuff that you don't want to, you don't feel like doing right now.

    2. MI

      Yes. This sounds like elementary education, kindergarten type of shit. But I gotta tell you, Chris, there is a lot of stuff that us internet guru people end up saying (laughs) that sounds remarkably kindergarten-like because, um, many of us, ourselves included, me, you, all the other talking heads, are coming to realize pretty regularly that focusing on very basic rudimentary understandings and eliminating mistakes from those understandings can build a foundation for real deep insight that in retrospect seems obvious as fuck-

    3. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    4. MI

      ... but prospectively may seem confusing. And so I love doing things like splitting up every decision you could choose to make into just two things. And it seems dumb-But also, you, like, think through it a little bit more and we'll talk through it a little bit more, and it's like, oh, all- all right. Well, that actually simplifies things considerably because one thing I really love and hate is when, especially experts, say things like, "Well, it's complicated. Well, it's nuanced." Oh, I understand that. But you got a PhD in the shit, right? So why don't you tell me how it's complicated and nuanced? And a lot of the times they will, but some of the times it's a deflection tactic to say, "E- Everything's so, uh, it's so..." Things can be simplified. It is possible to simplify thing, and the first simplification we can make today is of all of the things you could be doing in this next very moment, they fall into basically only two categories. Shit that you feel like doing and shit you don't feel like doing. And then those categories can further be subs- subdivised into just a few other categories to really simplify it. So if the shit you feel like doing, you can ask the question of, "Is it a good idea to do?" And then we just have, like, a few points of a checklist to fill out to see if it's yes or no. One thing is like, eh, do I have anything pressing that I need to be doing right now? Need to be doing right now. Let's say the answer is no. Okay. Does this thing that I wanna do hurt me and my future self in any way? Like, I wanna, I wanna do crack right now. Give me a fucking rock, Chris. Um, that's not good for me, it's gonna be bad. Is it gonna hurt someone else? No. Okay, fine. So if it, some... I don't need to be doing anything else. The thing I'm gonna be doing doesn't hurt me in any way in the future and it's not gonna hurt anyone else, I can probably do the thing, no problem. Then if you look at the universe of things that you have to be doing, that, okay, I don't want to do this, the real question is, okay, is there a compelling reason that doing this thing you don't wanna do improves future outcomes for future you? If the answer is no, well then, no. Like, gangsters dr- you know, ride up and they're like, "Hey, get in with us. We're gonna do, go do a shooting," or whatever gangsters say. You're like, "Well, gee whiz, that sounds dangerous and socially irresponsible."

    5. CW

      (laughs)

    6. MI

      So you're just like, "No thanks, fellas, but hey, best of aim to you. Oh, boy." And then you just don't get in the car 'cause it's, you know, future you doesn't wanna live in jail-

    7. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MI

      ... or shot to death.

    9. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    10. MI

      But if the thing you don't wanna do is a thing that substantially enhances your future outcomes, you might wanna consider doing that thing even though you don't wanna do that thing now.

    11. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MI

      The ultimate situation here in this whole construct of motivation, inspiration, all of that, is setting up a better world for yourself in the future. 'Cause like, I live, I'm living pretty goddamn good right now, if I say so myself, and almost none of it has to do with shit I'm doing right now. And sometimes that confuses my brain. I'll be sitting on Sunday and I'm high on edible marijuana and I'm just scrolling through the TV and I, j- due brain is like, "You're a piece of shit. You're useless."

    13. CW

      Mm.

    14. MI

      "You don't deserve any of these things that you have, like a house and a TV and time to scroll, and even edible marijuana, which you paid for with your own money, I might add, you degenerate drug addict." And then I'm like, well, how the hell do I have all this stuff? It's 'cause I did shit earlier that didn't pay off at the time. It paid off later. So with that whole decision tree I just described, you can really easily choose if you're gonna just do shit you like right now or if you're gonna do some shit now that you're not a big fan of right now, but future you is gonna be like, "Bro." He's gonna open up the fucking time portal, he's gonna push a fist through that shit, and he's gonna be like, "Blast that shit, big homie," and you're gonna do this 'cause you hooked up future you. Future you is your biggest ally.

    15. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MI

      Period. Past you is completely dead, by the way. Future you is gonna exist soon, and you're gonna wanna be a future you that you look back at a- as many points as possible in future you world to be like, "Damn, dude. Old me set the shit up good."

    17. CW

      Mm. Yeah. Gwenda Bogle says, "Your future self is watching you through your memories, whe- whether it's with pride or regret depends on what you do now."

    18. MI

      Or in my case, with like a physical skeeved out like, "Ew, I'm still with this guy?"

    19. CW

      Uh, Jack Butcher, "It's a beautiful day to remember that the second order effect of what you are doing now will arrive much later."

    20. MI

      (laughs)

    21. CW

      (laughs)

    22. MI

      So (laughs) and it, uh, that is f- fire quote.

    23. CW

      Yeah.

    24. MI

      Bu- but, however, I will say this, and you can probably agree to this, Chris, 'cause you and I are in our later years now.

    25. CW

      Yeah, yeah.

    26. MI

      Um...

    27. CW

      E- e- vintage-

    28. MI

      Vintage (laughs) vintage Chris Williamson.

    29. CW

      Yeah.

    30. MI

      Um, much later sure as shit feels like it arrives really goddamn soon, huh?

  3. 15:14 – 24:22

    The Importance of Inspiration When Getting Things Done

    1. MI

      future self.

    2. CW

      Okay. How can you make what you're doing feel like right now, like, what you don't feel like doing right now a more seamless process?

    3. MI

      That's the biggest question because there are a variety of answers to, how do I get myself to do the thing I don't wanna do that's important for me in the long term-

    4. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. MI

      ... that are, uh, false starts, bad ideas?

    6. CW

      Okay. Yeah, let's get... Let's start with those.

    7. MI

      Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sure. Uh, grit, willpower, discipline, if they're the first things you're talking about, you just, um, you're talking about very important, very functional things at the very wrongest point in the hierarchy. It's like going on a first date with a girl and being like, "All right, so, like, a lot of forward and back, right? Grunting, that sort of thing." She's like, "The fuck are you talking about?" You're like, "We'll se- We're gonna have sex later, right?" She's like, "What the... (laughs) I guess maybe, uh, not the time." You gotta weave into that shit. And so if you're looking at this from a sequential perspective of like, how do I approach a task, set of tasks, a whole hierarchy of tasks from the perspective of, "I'm not really cheesed on doing this right now, but it needs to get done, and I wanna do it as well as I can and thus as seamlessly as possible?" The first thing you probably wanna go to is not any of those err things. The err things, that'll come in handy later, but it's much more of an emergency switch rather than the thing that drives you.

    8. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MI

      People say like, "I'm driven by discipline." That's categorical nonsense. That's actually impossible. (laughs) Uh, you have to be driven by something. And so the first construct that's very helpful, and it's also a very short-lived one, is called inspiration. Inspiration, real simple to define. It's the thing that gets you going, a little squirt of juice in your thigh. In my case, literal (laughs) steroids, of course. And that's the, the inspiration. So next... No, I'm kidding. Uh, inspiration is a thing that can be either positive or negative, and it jolts you into deciding to take action on this thing that you might not have wanted to do, but now you're more keen on doing. So for example, you, uh, go out on a date. And you're talking to the girl, and you're like, "Yeah, I'm, like, into fitness or whatever," and she does one of these. She's like, "Oh, okay." And you're like, "Ooh." (laughs) "Wow." (laughs) You don't say anything at the time. You play it off, you know, whatever your score. You're the man. But later, you're like, "Ah, I do not look fit to the untrained eye." (laughs)

    10. CW

      (laughs)

    11. MI

      You look in the mirror, and you're like, "Oh, I really let myself go."

    12. CW

      Yeah.

    13. MI

      That's negative inspirational moment for you to be like-

    14. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    15. MI

      ... "Tomorrow, I'm, uh, again joining a, an Austin running club so I can get laid." Isn't that what those things are for?

    16. CW

      Correct. Yeah.

    17. MI

      Yeah.

    18. CW

      Thinly veiled dating organization.

    19. MI

      (laughs) I love it. Yeah. Uh, by the way, the, the Whole Foods here is like a s- trip show basically.

    20. CW

      Yeah. Yoga pants-

    21. MI

      Same.

    22. CW

      Yoga pants are, they're really... The technology, we talked before we got started about-

    23. MI

      (laughs)

    24. CW

      ... AI progression and all the rest of it. I wanna know about the technology that's going into fucking yoga pants and leggings.

    25. MI

      Yeah. Full stop.

    26. CW

      That thong line butt scrunch thing. You, you've managed to make two ass cheeks-

    27. MI

      Yeah.

    28. CW

      ... out of a single ass through clothing.

    29. MI

      Yeah. Yeah.

    30. CW

      It's kinda magic.

  4. 24:22 – 42:09

    We Need To Say Yes to More Experiences

    1. CW

      checkout. How do you think inspiration, this, uh, you know, the ephemeral muse coming down and bestowing on you the, the, this, this sense of, "Ah, ah, the sky's opened and it was then I knew I was gonna get single-digit body fat"?

    2. MI

      (laughs)

    3. CW

      ... but do you have a strategy or how do you think about trying to bring more inspiration into your life? Is that something that can be done? Can you, can you seek inspiration in that way?

    4. MI

      That is a great question, Chris. I have never managed to do a lot of that myself, precisely because inspiration is so underpowered compared to the other multiple constructs in this sequence of how to get shit done you don't wanna do.

    5. CW

      Mm.

    6. MI

      But there are absolutely ways of cultivating it. Great question. One, figure out who in your life is toxic as fuck and interact with them less. They're probably demotivating, de-inspiring.

    7. CW

      That's a great on the-

    8. MI

      100%.

    9. CW

      Yep, yep, yep.

    10. MI

      Another one is if there are people that you're around that you just feel inspired to do your best shit with when you're around them, that's who you wanna be hanging out with.

    11. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    12. MI

      That identical rule, unchanged, maps exactly onto all of your social media, down to the YouTube videos in your algorithm. You want shit in your algorithm that you look at and you're like, "This fucks. I like the way this makes me feel."

    13. CW

      That's it.

    14. MI

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      That's it there. So-

    16. MI

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... uh, post-content clarity is the best way.

    18. MI

      (laughs) Post-nut clarity, yeah.

    19. CW

      Yeah, exactly. Uh, just a lot of the things that we consume on the internet, given that people spend more time in the virtual world than they do in the real world now, by maybe like 60%, I think, on average. Uh, and if that's where you're spending most of your time, you can be captured, your limbics are... you know, all of the different ways that we, people get clickbaited into watching whatever, you need to be very careful because you will watch the thing that's most compelling to you at the time and the question you need to ask yourself is, "How did that make me feel after I finished watching it?"

    20. MI

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      I watch one of your videos and I think, "Fuck, like, I, I, like I learned s- I learned something about, you know, whatev- whatever this thing is that we're, that, that, that Mike was talking about, that, that's really intere- Like, I've left... (sighs) Like, I feel regulated." And then this other channel, you know, Piers Morgan is an interesting fella and I respect very much what he does and I've had fun on his show. I don't leave watching one of his videos typically, unless I'm on it, feeling very regulated.

    22. MI

      (laughs)

    23. CW

      You know, I leave feeling like I step outside of the door and I look a-

    24. MI

      Battered.

    25. CW

      Yeah, I look around and I, I don't wanna call my mum, I don't wanna tell my friends that I miss them. I'm not... The, there's, colors don't seem quite as bright. You know, just that, it's just sort of this low-level, uh, agitation.

    26. MI

      Oh, yes.

    27. CW

      And I think when you're faced with a question that's difficult, especially for something that's, like, messy and, like, meandering and ephemeral like inspiration, you went to the exact right place, which is kind of tough to engineer that. Well, I think I've maybe got one or two strategies, but one thing that you certainly can do is invert it. How would I give myself as l- as little inspiration to do the things, to make my life-

    28. MI

      Yes.

    29. CW

      ... move in the direction that I want?

    30. MI

      Stopping-

  5. 42:09 – 51:03

    The Key to Choosing Concrete Goals

    1. CW

      Uh, all right, so inspiration.

    2. MI

      Amazing-

    3. CW

      Yeah.

    4. MI

      ... short lived. Do not rely on it to take you all the way to accomplishing your goal. It can't do that by design. What we need is another construct and that's motivation. A lot of people say motivation is all of these things but if you look into the technical shit, it's actually just a sub-component, just the most popular phrasing. Motivation is the goal-driven desire to do a thing. It's seeing the top of a mountain that's many valleys away and going-I want, I want that. I wanna go up there. Because if you're inspired to do some hiking and some mountaineering, that gets you with your pole in hand, with your white people flannel clothes on, with your, all the white people, you know, the, that Arc'teryx bags and sh- just says you're just really white.

    5. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    6. MI

      You know what I'm saying? Outdoorsy, Montana people.

    7. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    8. MI

      You got all your shit together, you show up to the, uh, the he- the head of the trail, motivat- uh, inspiration will get you there. It will get you no further. 'Cause after a while, like, "There sure is, shit, a lot of bugs (laughs) on this fucking hike."

    9. CW

      (laughs) Yep, yep.

    10. MI

      You need a top of the mountain to be like, uh, anytime you forget where you're going, that is huge.

    11. CW

      So inherent-

    12. MI

      It must be a goal.

    13. CW

      Yes, inherent in motivation is some sort of goal, and how do you define goal?

    14. MI

      Goal. Anything, any kind of end state that you find more preferable than your current state. Generally, those are the easiest thing in the world to figure out. However, it has to be a specific goal, and that's a big one. So for example, if you say, "I wanna get in shape," you are exhibiting inspiration. Congratulations. What the hell does in shape mean? You could quit after a day, you got in slightly better shape. You quit after a week, yeah, well, yeah, some blood work change and everything. What does in shape mean? And on the other, the dark side of it, is for idiots like you and I who can't switch off, that's like, yeah, I'm like, I have striated glutes, but it's not enough. It's never enough. 'Cause you never set a goal, and you're just rolling.

    15. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    16. MI

      You went over the mountain, uh, back the other way, and you're just like off out of the country. You're not even in Peru anymore-

    17. CW

      Oh, come on. Yep, yep.

    18. MI

      ... you're in Columbia now. Like, who the fuck knows, right? And so a specific, concrete goal is really, really important. Now, there are ways to choose that goal that are, have a much higher probability of giving you two things, one, awesome things that you wanted, and two, actually attaining those things, reasonable, realistic things. For example, if you start lifting weights and you're like, "I want to look like Ronnie Coleman." Uh, let's see, with my bodybuilding acumen, Eric Helms is gonna judge me for this, 2001 Mr. Olympia, Ronnie Coleman, um, 2001 Arnold, Ronnie Coleman, eh, just the freakiest, most symmetrical, beautiful Ronnie ever.

    19. CW

      Is that when he wore the cloak? The king-

    20. MI

      No, that was later, that was-

    21. CW

      Oh, shame.

    22. MI

      King Ronnie. I love Ronnie.

    23. CW

      Yeah.

    24. MI

      He's the fucking man. Uh, I had a chance to meet him a while back and I just basically said almost nothing 'cause I was shitting my pants.

    25. CW

      Wha...

    26. MI

      Yeah. "Well, you, you look, you look like you don't even lift." I'm just kidding. I thought that's probably what he was thinking. He probably thinks that about all of us. You're not gonna accomplish Ronnie Coleman's physique almost certainly. That as a goal is setting ourself up for failure. It's also a goal that's like, uh, "Oh, I wanna climb Mount Everest but I'm gonna start in South America." You can't even see the shit. It's on the other side of the Earth. Are you out of your fucking mind? So you wanna pick goals that are tractable, like, uh, you can bite off a chunk and get closer to the goal in a measurable way, but also goals that are, uh, something that you will really pat yourself on the back for doing. So for example, um, "I'm gonna be, like, on my diet and I'm gonna do a, a good week on my diet." Come on. What's the end state of that? How you gonna look? No s- not, not noticeably different. You just, it's not the thing you want. Now, "I'm good on my diet for three months," hey, now that's gonna accomplish some measurable stuff. So goals are really good if they get you feeling like, "If I accomplish this, things will be different. I will really feel good about this." But not so crazy that it's too hazy off in the distance and not so close that it's too easy and you accomplish it right away and you never even feel good about yourself. And it should be as specific as reasonably possible. Concrete. "I would like to lose 10 pounds by March."

    27. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    28. MI

      10 pounds, you know what that is. "I wanna weigh 220 pounds by March." Very easy to see both how you're doing on your way to the goal and if and when you have accomplished your goal.

    29. CW

      How do you think about linking this to emotion, identity, sense of self, sense of purpose? You know, this, "I am going to stick to my diet for an amount of time. I am going to lose these 10 pounds." Great. Why? Why are you going to do that? Is the why question even important in this, in this sense?

    30. MI

      It can be important, but it is architected outside of this.

  6. 51:03 – 1:02:27

    Intention is Critical to Success

    1. MI

      deal.

    2. CW

      How do you think about the relationship between action and motivation? Because it seems to me, at least some stuff from neuroscience kind of suggests that when you get moving, when you move toward a thing, you then sort of start to backfill a story about motivation, in a way, and then that continues to push you forward. You spoke earlier on, I sat down, this is hard, this is difficult, but the action increased motivation and then that kind of became this sort of self-referential cycle.

    3. MI

      Sure.

    4. CW

      Is this jumping ahead too much or is this part of motivation when you-

    5. MI

      No, no.

    6. CW

      ... think about the action motivation sort of feedback loop?

    7. MI

      There's so much going on there, especially successful action on your way towards a goal that gets you closer to it is a beautifully reinforcing system. It's like a, the flywheel situation where more of it is better and better and better and better and better and then into your goal. But this is a great transition point for the next landmark of adherence, this next s- thing that we have to talk about. And that is motivation and having a goal is like totally dope and critical, I might add. It's like a general looking over a, a contested city and being like, "We're gonna be at the end of that flagpole by tomorrow, fellas. We're gonna capture this fucking city." Cool. Everyone's happy. That doesn't get the tanks going. That doesn't tell the troops where to go. That doesn't get the hospital in the back to get ready to accept some casualties, shit like that. When you are like, "I'm gonna gain 20 pounds on each lift." Sweet. What's day one gonna look like at the gym? G- I'm just gonna gain, right? Let's fucking gain, baby. (laughs) Like, there is missing something and that's an intention. The intention is another way of saying two things. "I have a plan." A plan is meaningless without motivation. The plan has to be like-

    8. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    9. MI

      ... "Plan for what?" Can you imagine like getting on ChatGPT and being like, "Hey, can you give me a plan?" He'd be like, "Yeah. Are you high?" (laughs) "A plan for what?" (laughs)

    10. CW

      Yep.

    11. MI

      Now if you say, "Can you give me a plan for..." Oh shit, hell yeah, he'll be typing away at you for forever. Intention means you have a plan and you are putting just a tiny bit of your pride on the line to say, "I'm gonna do the plan."

    12. CW

      So this is the emotion piece coming in a little?

    13. MI

      Oh yeah, sure. Because people can be motivated and so first of all, almost everyone can be inspired to do damn near anything. Tons of people can be motivated to do damn near anything. How many people actually construct a plan and put their, a little bit of their nut sack on the line for, "Am I actually doing this shit?" Because intention is the bridge between what you want and what you're gonna get. Actually executing the plan is the only thing that actually causes success.

    14. CW

      Up until this point, it's kind of been a mental exercise.

    15. MI

      Totally mental.

    16. CW

      Yep.

    17. MI

      Now, it's "Okay, I want this thing, I wanna lose 15 pounds." What is that, chew or something? What you got in there?

    18. CW

      They're nicotine toothpicks. Not sponsored. But-

    19. MI

      What the fuck? Really?

    20. CW

      Yeah. Do you wanna try one? Do you do nicotine?

    21. MI

      I don't do, I don't do nicotine.

    22. CW

      Oh. Well, neither do I, but these toothpicks are really fucking tasty and they-

    23. MI

      You eat them?

    24. CW

      What I want ... Well, they're just like, they're coated in ... This is-

    25. MI

      Nicotine. (laughs)

    26. CW

      Peppermint watermelon. Actually, if I'm being honest, the nicotine is secondary to the fact that they taste nice because peppermint watermelon tastes good.

    27. MI

      Yeah.

    28. CW

      So I'm like just chewing away on it.

    29. MI

      Are you gonna like get super high and throw up or something?

    30. CW

      No, I think I've tolerated ... I'm, I'm moving at the right pace. You know, this is a very slow-moving, uh, uh, treadmill-

  7. 1:02:27 – 1:17:58

    Discipline Looks Like Holding Yourself Accountable

    1. CW

      One final element on the intention thing is holding yourself to your own promises, right?

    2. MI

      Yes.

    3. CW

      I'm made, I've had some inspiration, I was motivated to do a thing, I have this commitment-

    4. MI

      Set a goal.

    5. CW

      ... yep-

    6. MI

      Have a plan.

    7. CW

      ... yes. But am I gonna keep my words to myself? And again-

    8. MI

      No.

    9. CW

      ... this feels like, and you sort of touched on it, I'm putting a bit of me, uh, uh, some chips are on the table in-

    10. MI

      Yes.

    11. CW

      ... terms of self-worth, in terms of my s- mm, I don't... It's something in there-

    12. MI

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

    13. CW

      Like that this is, this is a part of me and it's important to me that I do this thing.

    14. MI

      Let me tell you why I squinted. It is absolutely true that you need to put your nuts on the line for th- for this shit. And when you do not honor your intentions, it is totally okay, and in fact probably right, to feel a little bit of, like some of you is missing now. You lost something there. It's like someone punked you out in middle school.

    15. CW

      But it was you.

    16. MI

      You walk away from that... (laughs) Yeah, it's the worst, right? Um, you don't walk away from that feeling whole. You walk away from that, like, with a chip on your shoulder. On the other hand, there has to be... Uh, that, that's one end of the spectrum. The other end is that you're gonna try a lot of different shit and you're a human being who is flawed and also prone to changing the direction of where they're working towards. And if every single thing you start off on is do or die, everything and my pride is on the line for this shit, you're gonna lose it, man.

    17. CW

      Mm, I agree.

    18. MI

      I get that way about a lot of stuff, yeah, and, uh, it is not a very good thing, 'cause then someone's like, "Hey, like, we're abandoning this project at RP. We need to do this project now." And I'm like, "Gah! But I'm worthless."

    19. CW

      Yeah.

    20. MI

      Uh, it's just When I step back like this, I'm no longer attached to my identity as an achiever, as a success, as a motivator, as an accomplisher. I don't have an attachment anymore. I don't have an identity. Then, when I'm sufficiently calmer and more relaxed, I walk back in and I just do one thing: operationalize, which means just go logically about the shit. What actually do I need to get done? Okay, this. Mm-hmm. How do I marshal my efforts to do it? Oh, okay, all this stuff. You just go do the thing. As soon as you start thinking, like, "Okay, man, I gotta have an intention. I better not let myself down," in times of stress that can help, but generally what helps me the most is to sit back and be like, "None of this fucking matters. None of this matters. I still want it, though. Let's get it done calmly." Mm-hmm. Like, just fucking do the thing. And then so all these wonders of, "Am I doing hard enough, work enough?" that's between you and your whiskey at night, recounting your memories of serving in the Secret Service, shit like that, you know? All right. Discipline. So, again, the asymmetry, or the, the, the, the lack. Motivation not high enough today. I still need to go get my workout done. What I can do is take my willpower, which is that grr sensation, and it can leverage my pride, and I need to squirt th- juice in there to tell myself it just does not fucking matter how you feel. 'Cause the one thing with motivation that I've seen a lot on the internet is people will comment that, "Okay, man. It's really tough, um, getting to the gym today. Do you ha- any words of, like, anything to motivate me? I just haven't been to the gym in a while." Shut the fuck up. What the hell are you talking about? And I don't mean that disrespectfully, just as comedy. But I mean something there that's a little deeper. When you expect to feel like you always want to go to the gym or always want to do your taxes or always want to do whatever it is you think is important, you have made a grand illusion. Some of the time, you will not want to do the thing. The motivation will spike here. What it takes to get the thing done is up here. And at that point, there's not an amount of motiv- You're all done motivating. (laughs) It's still not enough, 'cause sometimes... I don't know if you've been through this, Chris, but like, you're, you, you have to do a hard thing. Maybe it's at the end of a day, maybe it's in the middle, maybe it's some big deal. And you, you, like, know logically that it's important and it's gotta get done. And you try to search inside for, like, that... You know, like, those old ninja movies where the guy would get beat up and then he would meditate and he would, like, remember his teaching and he came out and like... That shit, where the fuck is that? Mm-hmm. I've done that searching. It is just not there. Have you ever come up just totally dry on any reason why you should be there? Someone's like... You're, like, in the green room, like, waiting to get interviewed. And then someone's like, "Right, you're up in 30 seconds," and you just don't want to be there. And, and you're like, "Okay, mind, tell myself something that makes me want to be here." It's just like, (breathes deeply) "Huh? What?" (laughs) "Oh, where the fuck are... Why are we in a green room? Oh, hey, have fun." You're like, "Oh, goddammit, none of that worked." Yep. So there's nothing there. And here's the thing. There's no one coming to save you, except Mr. Goggins, who's gonna punch you square in your face and tell you, "Shut up and do the thing." And that is 100% what you need right there. Sometimes, when the motivation isn't high enough and your intention takes you here, you breathe in, breathe out, find that part of you that's Russian or Irish or Nigerian or whatever the fuck it is, that old shit, and go, "Fuck this, let's do this. Let's go." No logic. No reason. No, like, "Oh, well, this is true meaning." Just fucking do it. Problem: that drains your battery of willpower. You only have a few pumps at that thing every day until you're out, until you really don't give a shit anymore. Mm-hmm. Good news: you don't need it all the time. You just need it in emergencies. Remember earlier I said, like, people who start the discussion with discipline and willpower is just fucking wrong? It's like, 12 weeks of dieting? My man, you might have enough discipline over the course of a 12-week diet to get yourself rah-rah'd up, like, 10 or 15 times or something. Sure as shit not every day, man. Sure as shit not multiple times a day. You must be crazy. You'll quit. Everyone quits. You're just out. And e- by out I mean you are out literally of, like, the substrate in your vesicles in your neurons (laughs) that gives you that feeling. Mm-hmm. Once you drain that, it's just incapable, mechanically, of doing anything. You're like, "I just don't care. I just don't care. I'm done." So you gotta be real interested in how to maximize your motivation and make sure it is as little, uh, variance as possible and as high up and close to your adherence level you need as possible. Ideally, over it. Mm-hmm. Like, e- almost every pro bodybuilder, they're so passionate about what they're doing, their motivation wobbles, but it wobbles like five miles above what is required for them to do their meals and stuff. But they never drop below. Yeah, yeah. They never drop below it. So people ask them, like... Like, there's a comedy thing. Every time you see a bodybuilder, uh, a lot, a lot of, uh, a lot of normies, you know, a lot of regular folks, not, uh, crazy people like us, they go, "It must take a lot of discipline." E- every bodybuilder, you look at their face when that happens. If you're around that, look at their face, 'cause they're, they're gonna be searching for, like, wise shit to say, 'cause there's no fucking discipline involved in that shit. I want to be here. I want to eat these fucking meals. And also, if I feel like I don't, it's real quick for me to go down and just raise my motivation instantly, just like fucking thoughts of being in fucking radical shape and war and striated glutes and Spartans or whatever naked, and all of a sudden I'm back in. I don't need to grit down for that. I want to be here. Most bodybuilders, they want to do what they want to do. Most elite athletes just want to do what they want to do. Mm-hmm. Sometimes you need that injection. And recognizing when that is, doing it appropriately, and then recognizing, "Okay, I can't keep doing it like this. Let me go back and try to simplify the process that elevates my average motivation to above my adherence." There are absolutely ways of doing it. Those ways are typically boring. A lot of people discuss them as, as far as, uh, habits. Uh, but they are insanely, insanely effective, because if dieting is very hard for you...... training is very hard for you and you're squirting willpower through discipline into that fucking ... It's like a, you know, the, the Nas or whatever-

    21. CW

      Yep, yep, yep.

    22. MI

      ... on that, you shouldn't have been. You squirt that shit, you're-

    23. CW

      But you got a little tiny tank.

    24. MI

      Yeah, you got a little, you got a tiny tank. You can't keep going like that. So if, after, a- after four weeks someone's like, "How was your diet?" Then you're like, "Man, I've just been crushing it. Just discipline and motivation and willpower, I'm just..." You're not gonna last. So you gotta figure out a way to take that average motivation and boost it significantly.

    25. CW

      Mm.

    26. MI

      Which means one of two things. You have a line of adherence, how difficult it is to do the thing. You have a little wobble of motivation, let's say it's underneath it, how much you actually want to do the thing. Willpower via discipline fills in the gaps. You can do one of two things. Elevate your motivation, which is possible. Another thing is, bring the adherence down so that it's easier for you to get your job done. For example, if you have to drive one hour to the gym and back every day, you're gonna need a lot of motivation. (laughs) Like, by definition, and probably a lot of willpower too. If your gym is five minutes from your house by walk, it's j- the, the degree of effort, the amount of motivation you need to have to be adherent is, is quite small. And now you're on the path to success. And so all of these constructs sometimes culminate with habits. Building habits. When you have something habituated, your degree of adherence that you're attaining is just easier with your normal degree of motivation. And you may have a situation where you're using substantially less willpower, a situation where you use almost no willpower, and even a situation in which willpower just kind of left the chat. And, and people ask like, "What was your last 12 weeks of dieting?" You're like, "It's as easy as breathing. I just do my shit." They're like, "What, don't you ever, like, need to grit your teeth?" Like, "Well, I don't think so. I mean, chewing chicken breast, yeah, but other than that, just, just do my thing."

    27. CW

      Mm.

    28. MI

      And-

    29. CW

      But it would have taken more willpower to have not done the thing to, than to have do, done the thing?

    30. MI

      Oh, absolutely. 'Cause once something is, you're in the habit of doing, you're like a, you know, like a, let's say you're, um, prepping for a show and you're, like, getting s- ripped up and everything's going great, you're eating your meals, and someone's like, "Hey, man, uh, aliens just came down to earth. They're gonna give all of our wishes to us. You're just gonna be able to be stripped instantly. You don't even need to go do the show. Everyone's gonna win everything and it's just paradise. The ship's just down there. I'll see you down there." You're just kinda like, "Uh, I, I was supposed to eat my 3:00 PM meal. The fucking aliens ruined my plans. I, uh ... " You're already vectored into that direction. And if you have architected your habits in such a way that make the whole process seem like it's downhill, if you can do that work, and it takes a while to learn all the skills and f- fit what's right for you, then at the end of the day you end up starting, um, big goals and there's a little bit of learning curve. Once you're on track and habituated to them, it's just inevitable that they're gonna fall, pretty much. Because someone's like, "Oh, it's gonna be tough." You're like, "I, I, I don't know, I'm just gonna get it done." You know, imagine talking to someone who has run, like, hundreds of marathons and you're talking to them at, like, mile 12 of a marathon they're just recreationally doing, you're like, "Pretty tough 12 miles up ahead." They're like, " (coughs) Just one foot in front of the other." "Well, that's crazy." Like, "Well, yeah, but I have, like, 80 trillion habits of how to run marathons. This is actually just what I do at this point." I cannot oversell habit development. It's almost impossible.

  8. 1:17:58 – 1:36:47

    The Biggest Mistakes When Making Habits

    1. CW

      Let's invert it. Before we even get into how to enhance habit mechanism adherence, what are the things that people should avoid doing, or the biggest mistakes, pitfalls that people do when it comes to instantiating habits and making that gap a little bit easier?

Episode duration: 2:19:31

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