Hollywood’s Message Is Dead - Critical Drinker

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Intro

   1. CDCritical Drinker0:00

      I guess I just have to accept now that all white men are just awful at everything, and they suck. And myself included, like should just hang my head in shame for the rest of my life. It's a strange sort of offering that they're giving us now, where we're gonna actively hate you as a art form. We're gonna make it our business to make you feel awful about yourself. And if you dare to push back on that and reject the offering that we're giving you, then we just label you as a bigot or a reactionary, or whatever stupid term we label people with these days. (wind blowing)

2. 0:30 – 3:04

   Critical Drinker’s Background

   1. CDCritical Drinker0:31

   2. CWChris Williamson0:31

      What is your background? Tell me how you end up getting interested in critiquing movies.

   3. CDCritical Drinker0:38

      Oh, gosh. Um, right. What's the short version here? Um, yeah, I mean, I guess, like, from being a, a young kid, like, I was always just fascinated by movies, and I was fascinated by, like, the, the way that the stories worked. You know, the way that they would introduce us to the different characters, the way that they were structured so that, you know, you had that, that well-defined, like, uh, build-up of action, and then the, the sort of catastrophe that leads you to the lowest point, and then the big resolution at the end to give you that dramatic high that, that finishes it off. Like, I remember being, even as a kid, I started to recognize that pattern in movies, and it was something that kind of interested me. Um, and it led me into wanting to do storytelling of my own, eventually. And so I got into writing novels, that sort of thing. Um, and obviously YouTube came along, and um, you know, I was interested in the idea of, of starting to break that down and critique things a little bit. Um, you know, my, my early videos were shockingly amateurish, but you know, it was just fun. It was a fun, like, experience to get used to it, get used to editing videos, all that sort of stuff. Um, yeah, obviously I took a break from that to actually focus on my writing career for a good long while. Uh, and then a few years ago, I decided to come back and, um, start doing it again. And uh, gosh, I just, uh, really got into character one time as the drunken critical drinker. Uh, I think it was, uh, after a few glasses of jack, and I noticed I was slurring my words, and I just thought, "What the hell. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna embrace it and lean into it." And uh, that video just went viral, man. Like, within, uh, a few days, it had like a million views, and suddenly my channel exploded. And that's, that's what got me started on the path I'm on now, I suppose. So it worked out well.

   4. CWChris Williamson2:17

      What was the first video that, uh, that kicked off?

   5. CDCritical Drinker2:21

      I think it was about Captain Marvel. Um, so that would have been about three years ago now. Um, it was, yeah, I, I think 'cause there was such a media circus around that movie, um, you know, all of the talk about, "Oh, finally we're getting a female superhero," and all that nonsense. And I just thought, "Gosh, this is all a bit silly." And, um, it kind of really just conveniently forgets all the great characters that we'd had up until then. And I thought, "I'll just do a sarcastic video saying, 'I totally agree with this,' while showing, you know, all these awesome female characters through all the different decades." And for whatever reason, that just absolutely blew up. So that was my, that was my first taste of YouTube success, I suppose.

   6. CWChris Williamson3:03

      I looked at an article

3. 3:04 – 10:16

   The Gap Between Rotten Tomatoes Critic & Audience Reviews

   1. CWChris Williamson3:04

      earlier on that identified the divergence in Rotten Tomatoes, uh, critics and audience scores. And they have never been further apart, on average-

   2. CDCritical Drinker3:15

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson3:15

      ... according to the data science that was done by this. So as an example, critics loved and audiences loathed Star Wars: The Last Jedi, which was 49% divided, and audiences loved and critics loathed Venom, which was 51% divided. In 2022, the gap between audience and critic scores on Rotten Tomatoes has become bigger than ever. Audiences have given the top ten movies, on average, score more than 19 points higher than critics, by far the biggest difference this century. The only two of this year's ten movies where audiences and critics are even close was Top Gun: Maverick and The Batman. What do you think that says about the state of modern movies?

   4. CDCritical Drinker3:54

      I think they're not making people happy. I think people are watching them, and they're coming away fundamentally unsatisfied. And the critics that I guess they used to kind of trust because they would generally agree on movies, 'cause I think the, the actual quality of films was better but 10, 20 years ago. Uh, now they're diverging because they're beginning to realize that, uh, these critics that they used to trust are basically just paid to, to give positive reviews. And you know, it's in their interest to be positive because it allows them to keep getting access to film premiers, to get in all those little lovely goody baskets and stuff that studios send you if you're a professional critic. Uh, and you know, that, that's what they go on. Um, and so there's now this realization of, well, these people are really full of crap, and I can't trust their opinions on anything. Uh, and so yeah, I'm glad that it's finally happened. I'm glad people have woken up to, like, really how, how rotten that entire industry is. I think Rotten Tomatoes is a, a good term for it.

   5. CWChris Williamson4:51

      There is a situation though when critics are poorly reviewing films, and the audience is reviewing a film well. So this isn't a case of the critics cozying up to some studio. What's going on there?

   6. CDCritical Drinker5:04

      I think in those cases, it may be a case of ideological, um, persuasion, in that, uh, generally when that happens-

   7. CWChris Williamson5:11

      In the movies, in the movie world, surely not.

   8. CDCritical Drinker5:15

      Who would have thought?

   9. CWChris Williamson5:16

      It can't be.

   10. CDCritical Drinker5:16

       I think generally when that happens, it's a case of a movie which, uh, doesn't align with the current, uh, ideology of Hollywood. And, um, audiences generally lap that up because, man, most people are just, they're not left-wing, they're not right-wing, they're just in the middle, and when they go to the movies, they just want to be entertained. That's all they want. And when they get a movie that gives them that, uh, they generally love it. But then the critics, they don't love it because it's not, it's not spouting the, the ideology that they've been taught that they have to, uh, that they have to agree with and that they have to promote at any cost. And so yeah, that's generally when that happens.

   11. CWChris Williamson5:55

       It's interesting, right? Because movies for a long time were a good vehicle that could be used to put forward an important social movement narrative. It was a, a way of communicating to the masses in a entertaining and subtle way that this is something that you might have to think about. But it does seem more and more flagrant, more and more mask off, less subtle, and more-... almost, uh, like being flagellated, like being whipped by the film.

   12. CDCritical Drinker6:26

       I, I ... Yeah, I don't get it. In a lot of cases, I don't get why people would want to watch them. You know, it's, uh ... What can I liken it to? Um, yeah, I mean, I suppose the classic example is something like The Last Jedi from Star Wars. Uh, if, if you go watch that, it's like, you know, I guess I just have to accept now that all white men are just awful at everything and they suck, and that's just ... That ... Uh, myself included, you know, so I should just hang my head in shame for the rest of my life. Uh, yeah, it's a, it's a strange, um, it's a strange sort of, uh, offering that they're giving us now where we're gonna actively hate you as a, as a, uh, art form. You know, we're gonna make it our business to make you feel awful about yourself. And if you dare to push back on that and, uh, and reject the offering that we're giving you, uh, then we just, we label you as a bigot or a reactionary or whatever, you know, stupid term we label people with these days. Uh, there's no actual engagement with criticism anymore, and it's, uh, it's a frustrating thing. But then again, I feel like more and more people are just kind of seeing through that now. They've, they've ... Like you say, the mask is off and, um, it's becoming very obvious how biased and, you know, uh, tilted in one direction it is. Uh, I think, you know, that, that TV show that the ki- that came out recently, Velma, I don't know if you've heard about that, but it's, it's like this weird, uh, attempt to reboot the whole Scooby-Doo thing that we watched when we were kids, you know, the kids' cartoon. Um, now it's told from the point of view of Velma and it's all about like every character's been race-swapped, everyone's gay now. Uh, the only character that's been kept as a white guy is Fred who's now the butt of every single joke. He's an idiot, um, he can't do anything for himself. All that stuff. And it's like, it's like a parody of, uh, of the kind of, uh, messages that they were putting out, you know, a few years ago. Uh, but it's so over the top and ridiculous that it's like every pe- every person from every side of the argument is hating on it. (laughs) I just think it's really funny.

   13. CWChris Williamson8:37

       Well, I mean, if you were a well-meaning, moderate left liberal person, and this was the popular media that was supposed to represent your side-

   14. CDCritical Drinker8:48

       Mm.

   15. CWChris Williamson8:48

       ... I would be so ridiculously embarrassed. I, I, I ... It's worse to have your point of view or your side of the aisle be misrepresented by this, like, woke ... It, it's like a parasite that's just embodied what used to be quite a loved institution. Scoo- Scooby-Doo was legendary, right? When we were kids, Scooby-Doo was pretty legendary.

   16. CDCritical Drinker9:10

       Well, I think it was just ... It was f- ... It was, it was just innocent fun, you know? And I think that's, that's what people took it as, and now it's like ... God, it ... From what I've heard, 'cause I only watched the first couple episodes and I was done, but even then it's like it's got 15-year-old girls in the shower room, you know, like full-on nude. It's, it's got like, uh, Velma who's like, again, the same age, uh, in a strip club. It's like what are you ... What are you showing us? What are you doing with this? (laughs) And it's like I, I have to question the mindset of the people who have written this and created it and the executives that signed off on it. This has got to be borderline, you know? This is really distasteful stuff now. And it's like this all came from a, a goofy kids' TV show from the 1970s about like bunch of, bunch of college students that went around solving mysteries. Like why, why are you doing this? Awful.

   17. CWChris Williamson10:02

       Well, we've seen the same thing with She-Hulk, right, that was sort of pretty mask off in terms of how that got repurposed, and the worst one that I've seen recently was, uh, Doctor Strange 2. I watched that on a plane before

4. 10:16 – 16:56

   How Marvel is Patronising Women

   1. CWChris Williamson10:16

      anybody on YouTube had had a chance to do a summary explaining why I shouldn't watch it even on a plane.

   2. CDCritical Drinker10:23

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson10:23

      And I got sideswiped by, uh, yeah, I watched a little bit of She-Hulk and then bailed out, but I watched all of Doctor Strange 2 'cause I was literally trapped in a tin box flying at 35,000 feet. But, um-

   4. CDCritical Drinker10:34

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson10:34

      Yeah, man.

   6. CDCritical Drinker10:34

      You'll watch pretty much anything when you're on a long-haul flight, won't you? (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson10:38

      Correct. Um, but I mean, it was ... It f- ... It's the same tenor with that, right? It's ... I don't know. It's just not ... It doesn't feel subtle anymore, there's no progression to the characters, especially if they're female or from a minority. And this is something that I really enjoyed talking to Baggage Claim about which is that it patronizes women because it basically makes them out to be incapable of ever dealing with any challenge, they can't overcome anything, they are perfect as they are. I mean, there's a moment-

   8. CDCritical Drinker11:05

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson11:05

      ... in Doctor Strange 2 where zombie Benedict Cumberbatch goes back in time to tell America Chavez, the South American daughter of two women, that she just needed to believe in herself all along.

   10. CDCritical Drinker11:22

       That is the running theme when it comes to these female characters, and it's such an unhealthy message to send to people. Um, you know, even like taking our per- personal opinions out of the equation that it's like, you know, trying to make out that women are just perfect at everything which, you know, w- we're all human, none of us are perfect. Um, it's teaching people that you shouldn't need to strive to improve yourself, you shouldn't need to struggle, and when you come across, uh, challenges or adversity, the rest of the world just needs to accept that you're amazing the way you are. Uh, imagine if people took that to heart and tried to take that lesson out into the world and apply it to their lives. It would be disastrous for them. They would just get hit with like failure after failure. Uh, you know, it, it, it used to be such a, a much more inspiring message that movies gave you about the, the power of self-improvement, of, of rising to challenges and struggling.... uh, and, you know, maybe failing and making mistakes, but learning from them and becoming better as a result. Um, that was a great thing to teach people, 'cause that's how you progress in life, you know? Um, so yeah, to, to try and do that, it's ... Not only is it patronizing, but it's really counterproductive for people.

   11. CWChris Williamson12:40

       Especially given that a lot of the lessons that people learn about how to exist in the world come from popular media. You know, especially given that these are movies that ostensibly are supposed to help people who perhaps don't come from the perfect sort of background. Maybe they haven't had an amazing parental household giving them all of the worldly wisdom that they should do to be able to navigate through ... Okay, so you are going to, in some regard, like as a movie studio, be a surrogate parent almost, or like a sage or a grandparent in some regard to pass down, "These are some kind of timeless truths that you can hold onto." And the timeless truth is if you're a 15-year-old mixed race investigator coming out of high school with a talking dog for a friend, get naked in the shower and go to a strip club.

   12. CDCritical Drinker13:30

       That seems to be the lesson. Um, and yeah, like, it's ... A- again, to talk about messaging in movies, you know, as you said there, there used to be this acknowledgement that, uh, the, the older generation had wisdom to impart to the younger generation who were just coming up, you know. They could teach them the lessons that they learned in their lives and, uh, you know, give them something to, to prepare them for the challenges that they were gonna face. Uh, that was a, a timeless, kind of universal concept, because that's how people generally get by in life. You can learn things from your elders. Uh, but again, there seems to be this movement now in modern movies to do away with that and say that, uh, the older generation have nothing to teach you. There's nothing useful you can learn from them. Uh, you're just ... Like I say, you're great the way you are. People just need to acknowledge your awesomeness. Um, and, you know, particularly if that older mentor-type figure happens to be a man, yeah, there's no way. He's not allowed to teach you anything. Uh, and you, you touched upon this with, um, Multiverse of Madness, like Doctor Strange 2. There was a bit in, uh, the TV show WandaVision, which is the one that just leads into Doctor Strange, um, and people were asking, "Well, why is he not there? Surely that's the exactly, the kind of situation he should be involved in, because he's, he's a magic guy." And Kevin Feige, the guy who runs Marvel said that, "Well, it, it would look bad if we had a white man coming in to show Wanda how to use her powers." That's the mentality. He's not allowed to do that, because he's the wrong sex and he's the wrong ethnicity. That's the ... We're, we're basically living with, like, this, this weird new age, like, segregationism in, in movies. There's, there's like a, a set of rules and laws that these movies have to adhere to now when it comes to their storytelling, and this is just one of the rules. Can't have a, a guy, especially a white guy teaching a female character anything valuable. He has to be dumb and he has to be useless, and she has to be better than him at everything. Fair enough, but like, that's ... It's like trying to tell a story with, with an arm, with one arm tied behind your back. You know, you're crippling the, the, the writer's ability to tell a good story because you're putting so many rules on them to apl- to try and appease all the ridiculous demands of all the people on social media now who get offended by everything, that you cripple your ability to tell a story. So, you know-

   13. CWChris Williamson15:53

       It's also the same wh- when it, when it comes to getting awards. Didn't I hear you talk about the fact that you're only eligible for, uh, certain awards if you have the right kind of representation both in front of the camera, behind the camera, in terms of the studio and stuff?

   14. CDCritical Drinker16:09

       Yeah, the Academy, um, like for the Oscars, um, straight published their guidelines basically saying your, your movie isn't even eligible to be considered for an Oscar unless it's got X percentage of, of, uh, ethnic minorities, X percentage of women, X percentage of LGBT people. Uh, all of that stuff, that is now the defining factors in whether or not your movie is even eligible for consideration for an, an award of any kind. And again, I just have to ask, like, why? (laughs) Like, how do, how does that improve the quality of a film by just demanding that certain people have to be involved in it, you know? I- i- God forbid you would just hire people based on how good they were in other jobs, you know? And that's not gonna get any better.

   15. CWChris Williamson16:54

       What, do you think it's ... Yeah. Wh- so I'm g- going

5. 16:56 – 22:28

   Why Does Hollywood Hate Men So Much?

   1. CWChris Williamson16:56

      back to the conversation especially around men, um, w- why do you think Hollywood hates men so much at the moment?

   2. CDCritical Drinker17:06

      Uh, probably a guy named Harvey. Like, that was definitely part of it, who, who (laughs) was obviously, you know? He, he got caught. I, uh ... Obviously did a lot of terrible things, and, and rightly got, uh, you know, imprisoned for it. Uh, but the, the result was this seismic, you know, shockwave that went through Hollywood, and it just became from that point, uh, "We, we can't have, we can't have men in sort of positions of power. We can't have, uh, like, traditional strong, masculine men, uh, in, in lead roles anymore." And if, if you ever get a character like that, they almost always become the butt of a joke, you know. It's always like, "L- ha ha, look at this guy thinking he's, like, macho man or whatever, and then he fails at something." Uh, it, it's always the same-

   3. CWChris Williamson17:50

      Oh, like, uh, like Thor?

   4. CDCritical Drinker17:51

      Yeah. Yeah, like Thor. Big muscly guy just becomes an absolute goofy clown, because isn't it funny to laugh at them? Uh, you know, how many times have you seen a man get kicked in the balls in a, in a Disney movie? It's funny, isn't it? It's really funny when that happens. Not so funny when it happens to you though. Um, and again, you know, you re- reverse the genders there. Like, if you showed a woman getting kicked in the crotch, like suddenly it's not funny anymore, you know? Like, the, the ... It would've been a thermonuclear explosion on social media if that was ever shown on a, in a, in a mainstream movie, particularly if it was shown for laughs. It's not gonna happen, but it's okay when it happens to men.You know, it's just this weird double standard. And I think it, it partly, you know, a big part of it is a result of, like, Harvey and all that crap. Um, and a part of it is just a, a shift in the kind of culture in Hollywood that I think was perhaps happening anyway. Um, just trying to... Th- this constant drive to, like, redefine masculinity, which, you know, often means, like, getting some skinny, you know, 14-year-old dude and putting him in a dress, and, like, saying, "This, this is masculinity now." Like, yeah, sure it is. Like, whatever. Um, but yeah, th- that kind of dual, uh, almost pincer movement of, like, cultural change within Hollywood and reaction to, to things that have been exposed within their own ranks, it's just been, um, you know, men, masculine male heroes are not a viable commodity in movies at the moment, you know. Uh, but that's why you get, like, something-

   5. CWChris Williamson19:30

      I had a thought-

   6. CDCritical Drinker19:30

      Uh, I was just gonna say, that's why when you get the occasional movie that does dare to show them, they usually do really well, 'cause people have been starved of this stuff for years.

   7. CWChris Williamson19:40

      What would be some examples of that? Like Top Gun?

   8. CDCritical Drinker19:42

      Probably, yeah. Yeah, it's a pretty good example. Um, yeah, it was like, it was a movie that's combined all of those things together, like we were talking about. You know, the, the aging mentor who would normally be a subject of mockery. Uh, you know, a different director, a different writer would have portrayed Maverick as completely over the hill and, you know, getting outclassed by all these young people who are, who are faster and better than him. No, this movie dared to say ... And it was probably partly 'cause Tom Cruise, and he's got an ego on him, saying, "No, he's still good at what he does. And you know what? He's got way more experience than you. He's been there and done that, and he can kick your ass if he wants to. He's still able to do that." Uh, and look what it did, $1.5 billion. It was the biggest movie of the year by far. And all these Marvel properties that used to dominate and, and, you know, absolutely wipe the floor with everything else, they were trailing far behind. And it was... I was very happy to see that. It pleased me. (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson20:42

      I, so I watched... I've flown a lot over the last year, so almost all of the movies that I've seen have been on planes, and I really enjoyed Top Gun. But I didn't think it was ridic- I would have given it maybe a, like a seven point f- uh, probably an eight, probably an eight on the Tomato meter-

   10. CDCritical Drinker21:01

       Hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson21:01

       ... I think I would have given it. So, still good, but kind of shows that the bar isn't exactly set superbly high at the moment in order to-

   12. CDCritical Drinker21:09

       No, that's... You're... Yeah, you're exactly right. Uh, we are just living in a world where the movies that we're getting are so terrible that anything that's just borderline okay is suddenly hailed as a masterpiece. You know, that, that's it. Like, it's, it's lowered expectations. And so this is what you get. You know, movies that... or TV sh-

   13. CWChris Williamson21:27

       Actually, maybe it's a really smart, it's a, maybe it's a really smart strategy from the movie studios to just get everybody's expectations so low that they can low-ball us with something that's brilliant.

   14. CDCritical Drinker21:37

       I mean, I don't think so, because... Well, it's not like they can't produce good movies. They were doing it for decades. But then if you look back to, like, your favorite movies of all time, I, I'm willing to bet that none of them are, um, newer than about 20 years old. You know, they're, they're probably all from the, the, the 2000s, the early 2000s, um, back through the '90s, the '80s, the '70s. Um, I don't think there'll be anything from the past 10, 15 years, because they're, they're, you know, they've become lazy. They, they've become lazy. Um, they have started relying on big tentpole movies, particularly remakes, particularly, uh, reboots of things, endless superhero movies. You know, that's the, been the moneymakers, and it's just inspired this culture of laziness in them.

6. 22:28 – 29:56

   The Current Trend of Movie Remakes

   1. CDCritical Drinker22:28

   2. CWChris Williamson22:29

      What's going on with how many reboots and remakes are happening at the moment? Is it just that it's too much of a risk to try and start a new franchise?

   3. CDCritical Drinker22:39

      I think it's... (sighs) On paper, doing a, a reboot or a remake of something, uh, is, it should be a winning strategy, because you should, in theory, have instant access to that devoted fan base who just want to see their favorite property brought back. (coughs) Excuse me. Uh, and so financially it seems to make sense. The, the problem is that you can't often capture lightning in a bottle. You know, a, a... Something like Ghostbusters, classic movie, we all loved it back in the day. Uh, it worked because, you know, a bunch of really good creative talents all came together, had a great script, uh, great director, everything just worked perfectly. You know, they tried to do it for the second one back in the '90s. Uh, you know, it wasn't very good. Uh, and then you got Ghostbusters 2016. Well, we all know how that turned out. (laughs) You know. We're gonna, we're gonna reboot it for modern audiences, uh, capitalizing on the Ghostbusters name, and look what happened. (laughs) It was a flop, you know. But th- it happens over and over again, but it's like they're always trying to, uh, recapture that lightning in a bottle from these, these past successes because, um, well, movies are expensive to make now particularly. If you're dropping $200 million on a film, damn, man, that's a lot of money to invest. You want a pretty solid guarantee that it's gonna be successful. And it used to be that that was, you know, that was a pretty good way of doing it. You know, you can market it as, "We're gonna, we're gonna bring back this great franchise that we've got a huge fan base for. Everyone will be happy."

   4. CWChris Williamson24:18

      Did you see that clip of Matt Damon on First We Feast, or the hot, hot wings, where he's talking about why modern movies seem to be less adventurous? Have you seen this clip? Do you know what I'm talking about?

   5. CDCritical Drinker24:32

      I, I have, yeah. 'Cause it's like, he's, uh, he's crying while eating this stuff. (laughs) He's... I don't know if this is like-

   6. CWChris Williamson24:38

      It's not the easiest environment-

   7. CDCritical Drinker24:40

      Yeah, I don't know if this is almost like how you inject people with, like, you know, truth serum and stuff, like their mind is so fogged by the pain of the, the, the hot wings that, like, th- they're just gonna spit out straight-on truths. Um, I'm trying to remember what exactly he said during that scene.

   8. CWChris Williamson24:54

      So he says that the death of DVD sales has meant that movie studios-

   9. CDCritical Drinker24:59

      Oh.

   10. CWChris Williamson24:59

       ... can't be adventurous anymore, that you basically got a second bite at the apple-

   11. CDCritical Drinker25:03

       Yes. Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson25:03

       ... of being able to make money. It might not win at the box office, but it can kind of be this ascending underground victory. Uh, and he uses this example of someone that said, "It's gonna cost me, uh, 25 million for this. Half of it goes to this. I need to double the spend on that, so I need 100 million to make the money back, and the only way I'm gonna do that is through DVD sales." What's your thoughts on that?

   13. CDCritical Drinker25:26

       Yeah, that's very true. Um, uh, there was very much the long tail of sales that would come after the theatrical release. And, uh, yeah, there have been plenty of movies that, um, you know, they didn't make their budget, uh, when they were in movie theaters but they ultimately became profitable years later just through DVD sales and all that stuff. Um, so yeah, there's- there's absolutely something to be said for that. Um, yeah, it's- it's- uh, I guess it's just a different world, you know. Um, with streaming, obviously that's radically altered the equation. Um, you know, the moment something gets released onto streaming, it's gonna be on- on the high seas, and that's gonna take a huge chunk of your revenue as well, with people just getting it for free. Um, and, yeah, I- I guess, there- there's just this general climate of risk aversion. You know, what is the things that makes money at the moment? Um, the other thing I was gonna say is the- the death of the sort of mid-budget movie. They don't really exist anymore. You know, there used to be a time when you would get your big, m- you know, blockbusters that was like $100 million budget. Uh, you would get your little indie movies that were done for practically nothing, but then you would get in-between films that had like 20, 30 million allocated to them. Not a huge amount, but then they don't have to make a huge amount in order to become profitable, so I think that's been a big change as well.

   14. CWChris Williamson26:49

       One thing that I definitely hadn't considered was that Harvey Weinstein might have been the gateway drug or the pebble at- pebble at the top of the avalanche that caused downstream from this for a bunch of other problems to occur. Like, I understood that it is not particularly popular at the moment to uphold men, particularly white men, as being competent in- in the media. I didn't realize that this would be this sort of pincer movement, two-pronged attack, both coming from the internal milieu that's happening inside of the studios in the production world generally, and then also being fed back up from what's happening in society as well. That's quite interesting.

   15. CDCritical Drinker27:32

       I think as well, like, we now are past the time when writers in Hollywood actually lived lives. You know, if you went back to the- the '70s and '80s, uh, in Hollywood, the- these writers, man, most of them had lived a life. Like, they might have fought in Vietnam or something. Uh, they- they probably came from rough upbringings. They had to fight their way to get into Hollywood, and, uh, you know, probably just had interesting life experience that they could bring forward to their- their writing on screen. Um, (coughs) the writers that you get now, they would go on to some, um, you know... Oop.

   16. CWChris Williamson28:11

       (laughs) So that is, that sound is... I'm currently in Austin, Texas, and there's been a freeze storm overnight which means that every tree has got water on it, which then freezes, and then the trees snap. So, I may go outside of here and find that there's a tree that's fallen. But the roof seems to be okay at the moment, so we will- we will continue ... Damn. ... but I'm not dead yet. I'm not dead yet.

   17. CDCritical Drinker28:36

       All right, we'll keep going as l- well, as long as- as long as you're alive, we'll keep going. All right. Um, yeah, the- so the writers now, like, th- their career path is basically, uh, either, um, Mummy or Daddy is already in the industry and so I get straight in, or I go to some liberal arts college where I'm taught to hate, you know, white people and- and men and stuff for four years, um, then get into Hollywood. I say all the right things, uh, about down with the patriarchy and stuff, and I just get hired. And so, um, I don't have any life experience. I've never faced adversity. I've never had to struggle for anything in my entire life. And, uh, I don't know how to bring that forward into my characters. And so, the- the things I know how to write about are, "You're awesome the way you are because you've already succeeded, because I've succeeded from- from doing very little." Uh, and that's- that's how they- that's how they rationalize life. Um, and so again, you know, y- it- it all feeds into this- this culture, I guess, that we have now in Hollywood of narcissism, of selfishness, of, um, you know, "I'm the most important thing in the world and I'm perfect." Uh, and, you know, it- it's not about improving yourself anymore. It's not about taking on challenges. It's just about everyone else accepting you for what you are right now.

7. 29:56 – 35:24

   Why A Stoic Man Is a Toxic Man in Hollywood

   1. CDCritical Drinker29:57

   2. CWChris Williamson29:57

      I've also heard you talk about why it's unpopular for men to be seen as stoic anymore.

   3. CDCritical Drinker30:03

      Hmm.

   4. CWChris Williamson30:04

      What's your insight there?

   5. CDCritical Drinker30:06

      Well, again, yeah, um, a stoic man is a toxic man in the minds of Hollywood writers, whereas, uh, I see it as, like, a necessary, um, survival skill, really, (laughs) throughout most of human history. Like, you- you can't have everyone, uh, be high-strung emotional idiots who just go to pieces the moment, like, things start going wrong. There needs to be stoic people who can deal with problems, um, logically and don't complain all the time about things. You know, it's... People used to live hard lives. I- I guess that's the- the point I'm making. Previous generations would be shocked and appalled by how easy we have it now, but...... they, they used to struggle, and they used to have to put up with a lot of hardship, and you developed stoicism as a result of that. That's what allowed you to deal with it, because you couldn't sit and complain all the time because there was no one com- to complain to. You had to get on and do things. Um, (clears throat) we don't live in that world now. And so that idea of stoicism, the stoic man, um, who, who gets things done and who doesn't complain about it, um, that is seen as a toxic relic of a different time. And I think particularly because of the, the writers that you have, you've either got women now in Hollywood, um, who don't, who are threatened by that, or you have effeminate men who've never endured hardship, uh, who are envious of that. And so either side wants to destroy it and get rid of it and mock it because they don't understand it. Um, and so that's, yeah, that's what you have now. You don't get stoic male characters. They have to be constantly joking. They have to be constantly, like, doing the, the goofy, uh, self-conscious, ironic humor about themselves. They usually have to mess things up. Like, it's just, uh, I don't know about you, I just ... That's not the kind of men that I've known in my entire life. Like, they, they don't act like that. That's a caricature Hollywood bullshit version of what a man is meant to act like. But that's what they-

   6. CWChris Williamson32:09

      It's also not accurate-

   7. CDCritical Drinker32:09

      ... that's what they come up with.

   8. CWChris Williamson32:11

      It's not accurate the way that women act either. Most of the women that I know, especially the ones that I respect and admire, can deal with difficult things. They can go through hardship.

   9. CDCritical Drinker32:20

      Exactly.

   10. CWChris Williamson32:22

       And being-

   11. CDCritical Drinker32:23

       It's not a, it's not a unique ... Yeah, it's not a uniquely male trait, uh, in the slightest. And, you know, it's not that, uh, women would be expected to, to be, you know, super feminine and, and, uh, you know, hyper emotional about everything. Not at all. Um, there, there's usually a little bit of gran- like, sort of variation between them, for sure. Um, but again, their idea of, like, writing a strong female character now is just someone who's a total asshole, who is, like, super aggressive, super domineering, wins every argument, never gets challenged on anything, um, doesn't have any compassion or anything for, for other people. Uh, again, that's, that's not really how I've known women to act.

   12. CWChris Williamson33:12

       You used this really good example of the animated Mulan movie compared with the live action remake that they did. And in the original one, the girl that joins this fighting force is smaller, and doesn't have experience, and needs to work incredibly hard to overcome her physical limitations of being physically smaller than everybody else, and she has to use ingenuity and d- different tools, and she has to be smarter, and she has to work harder, and that invests you in the character. Like, I care about her outcomes because an underdog story is one that you're always going to resonate with.

   13. CDCritical Drinker33:45

       Yes.

   14. CWChris Williamson33:45

       And then, it comes to the live action version, which is a girl pretends to be a guy because there aren't enough soldiers, and then is simply better than everybody else because of some ineffable, inherent, embodied thing, like chi, like super chi, fem-

   15. CDCritical Drinker34:04

       Hmm.

   16. CWChris Williamson34:04

       ... estrogen chi or something. And because of the estrogen chi, it means that she can win, beat people that have been doing it for much longer than her, that have worked harder than her. She doesn't have to go through any difficulty or any challenge, apart from people not believing in her primarily because of her gender, and then she can save the day. Like, that's not an empowering story. Any woman that thinks that that's an empowering story for your daughter to have doesn't have the same definition of empowerment that I do.

   17. CDCritical Drinker34:30

       Yeah. That's a- it's the perfect example, really, of the, the kind of, uh, ridiculous thinking that you have now in movie-making when it comes to writing characters like that. (coughs) Like you say, the original gave you a go- a, a great message, not just for little girls, but for anyone, really. Like, you might not always be the strongest, you might not be the fastest or whatever, um, but you can still prevail through, through working hard, through ingenuity, through crea- creativity. All of those things can, can help you overcome, uh, limitations. Um, (coughs) but yeah, the, the modern movie is basically saying, "You have no limitations. You're amazing. Just everyone else needs to accept how amazing you are." Uh, it's such a destructive message to give people, because life is meant to be about improving yourself. It's meant to be about, uh, trying and failing and picking yourself up, and doing better next time. That's, that's the point of it.

   18. CWChris Williamson35:22

       I learned a new word a couple of weeks

8. 35:24 – 38:46

   Explaining ‘Fan-baiting’

   1. CWChris Williamson35:24

      ago called fanbaiting. Have you heard of this?

   2. CDCritical Drinker35:26

      Mm-hmm. Made a video about it, in fact. (laughs)

   3. CWChris Williamson35:30

      Oh, did you really?

   4. CDCritical Drinker35:31

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson35:31

      Explain to people who don't know what fanbaiting is.

   6. CDCritical Drinker35:34

      So, in broad terms, fanbaiting is the idea of, um, "We're gonna create a new TV show," or whatever. "It's probably gonna be an adaptation or a remake of something that you love. Uh, what we're gonna do though is we're gonna race and/or gender-swap most of the characters. Uh, we're gonna make a huge deal out of the fact that we're doing that. Uh, and we're basically saying to the fans of this, this franchise, 'Hey, we're, we're changing everything that you love. Doesn't it make you mad? Don't you wanna, don't you wanna lash out? Don't you wanna criticize us? Go on, do it. Do it. See what happens.'" And that's what happens, you know? People rise to the, the bait. Uh, they get mad about it. Inevitably, some people will go too far, and they will be genuine sexists or racists. Uh, they'll say things that are very inappropriate. Uh, and those people get ... They ... Those comments that they make get caught. They get captured. They get, uh, spread out for everyone to see by the, the actual company that's doing this, the studio, and they'll say, "Look, this fanbase is toxic. The, the only people that hate this product are racists and sexists. Um, you don't wanna be like that, do you? You don't wanna be one of those people. You wanna be a good person. You wanna support the thing that we're doing, don't you? Support it."... just, just go along with it. And that's it, that's what it is. It shames people into supporting something which is fundamentally shit. It's fan-baiting. It baits people into doing the thing that they want so that they can, they can trumpet it as, "Well, we're just on the right side here, and everyone else who criticizes our product is on the wrong side." That's all it is.

   7. CWChris Williamson37:16

      There is only so far that you can push people through guilt and shame to be able to do something. It's a, an interesting analogy with some of the issues that came up in the early 2010s-

   8. CDCritical Drinker37:31

      (clears throat)

   9. CWChris Williamson37:31

      ... when, uh, Fifty Shades had done really, really well as a novel, and the dark romance genre generally was taking off, everything was great. But there were some concerns that, uh, the kind of erotica novels that women were buying were showing a very competent, very assertive, very dominant protagonist in the man. Uh, so what they did was they tried to replace those men on the front cover with much more kind, gentle, more agreeable, less dominant men. And guess what? They didn't sell well, right?

   10. CDCritical Drinker38:00

       The heart wants what the heart wants, what can I say? (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson38:03

       Yeah, dude, your, your money and your arousal are two things that you don't tend to give away without actually genuinely wanting to. And the fan-baiting thing-

   12. CDCritical Drinker38:12

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson38:12

       ... is so fascinating. We saw this with (sighs) what was that thi- m- Bros? Boy ... What was it, Bros, th-

   14. CDCritical Drinker38:18

       Bros, yeah, Bros. I-

   15. CWChris Williamson38:20

       Yes, which is like, gay-

   16. CDCritical Drinker38:20

       I never watched it but I know ... Yeah, yeah, I know the director basically was like, you know, "If, if you don't watch this, you're a bigot." And it's like, that's just mask-off, like, straight-up. It's the equivalent of basically getting down on your knees and begging people to watch your, your show or your TV or your movie, you know? Uh, it's pathetic and it's sad, and it's just, it really exposed how bad that stuff was.

   17. CWChris Williamson38:44

       So, I understand

9. 38:46 – 44:42

   Will the Market Show Hollywood that People Want Better Movies Again?

   1. CWChris Williamson38:46

      your rationale, saying that, um, movie studios are concerned about losing money, which means that they do something that they think is going to be both socio-politically popular, and they're rebooting and remaking existing franchises because that seems to be an easier way to go. But surely, the type of turnout that we've been seeing at the cinema, especially post-pandemic, right, which is gonna have had a bit of an impact, but moreso because movies don't seem that compelling, and if the director is lambasting me for being too much of a homophobe to go and watch a gay rom-com, that's, that's definitely going to put me off, no matter my predilection around that sort of a movie. Surely, studios are eventually gonna have to create things that people want to actually watch, or else they're going to go broke. Like th- uh, is there not hope in the future that the market is going to reform these production studios into making things that we actually want to see?

   2. CDCritical Drinker39:44

      Yeah, there absolutely is. Um, uh, the thing you have to keep in mind is that, like, all of this stuff has, like, a three-year lead time. So, like, you're, you're watching movies now that are coming out in movie theaters, they were commissioned in, like, 2019, because, you know, it takes a long time to make a film, obviously (laughs) . Like, you know, you've got to script it, you've got to cast people, you've got to direct the thing, you've got to shoot the thing, uh, then do all your post-production, then get it on its slate, then get it marketed. So, um, in a sense, what you're seeing in cinemas right now are ideas from, like, three years ago, and that's why we're still getting shit movies that, that do all this stuff. Because probably Hollywood has now recognized the, the mistakes that they made, or they're starting to recognize it, uh, and so th- they're starting to make those changes to their productions. But that's not gonna come out for a couple more years, you know, it takes time, and this is why you, you often hear from people saying, "It's gonna get worse before it gets better," because it probably will. You know, um, Warner Bros. is a great example of that. They had been losing money for years on their, their DC movies and stuff, um, they brought in a guy called Walter Hamada who was wanting to take it in the, the super-woke direction where you were gonna do away with Superman, do away with Batman. They were gonna get replaced by Supergirl and Batgirl, um, and it was gonna be them and Wonder Woman. Like, it was gonna be all female, um, that, I think they race-swapped a couple of them as well. You know, all of that woke stuff just distilled into one perfect triumvirate of nonsense. Um, he's been fired. He, he, he's gone now. They brought in a guy called David Zaslav. He looked at all this stuff that was coming up and he (laughs) was like, "Fucking no," and canceled a whole bunch of it. Uh, canceled Batgirl when it was made, it was ready to go. Th- they spent $100 million on this thing, and he's like, "Nope, it's so shit it's not even gonna get shown, ever. It's going in, in a vault. Nobody can ever see it, ever." You know?

   3. CWChris Williamson41:40

      Encase it in lead and drop it at the bottom of the Atlantic.

   4. CDCritical Drinker41:44

      Exactly, yeah, and like, burn it and salt the ground and stuff. But that's, you know, that was that change of direction because they could no longer afford to indulge this nonsense, 'cause they were running out of money. They had to bring in a guy who was hard-nosed, a businessman who just, uh, hopefully had an eye for making good-quality films. And (coughs) it's happened to them, it's gonna happen to other studios as well. It just takes time.

   5. CWChris Williamson42:09

      That lead time thing is so interesting (thumping sound) and I didn't think about it at all. I also know how long it takes to make video games, and that-

   6. CDCritical Drinker42:21

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson42:21

      ... there is a, maybe a concern. You're talking maybe seven years, between five and seven years to make a, a, you know, a pretty good game. Um, I wonder whether computer games are going to go that way as well. I would guess that the studios that make games are a little bit more in-touch with what their core audience is after, but, you know, there was a, a news story p- partway through last year saying that, uh, the new GTA was going to feature lower rates of violence and it was going to restrict some of the things that you could do, which was going to be commensurate-

   8. CDCritical Drinker42:50

      Yeah. (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson42:50

      ... with more progressive understandings of social policy and a blah, blah, blah.... they are going to get much more immediate feedback from their fans saying, "Fuck no," than you can from a cinema, I think.

   10. CDCritical Drinker43:05

       Yeah. It's like, know your audience, guys. (laughs) Come on. You don't play a GTA game to be politically correct, (laughs) you know what I mean? It's like, uh, yeah, they've spent 20 years allowing people to, like, shoot up entire streets worth of people, run folk over with cars, you know, murder prostitutes, whatever. All the, like... Um, whatever depraved stuff people can come up with, you could probably do it in those games. Um, but that, that was just part of the anarchic fun of them. And so to try and suddenly develop a social conscience now, it's like, "Oof, no, that's, that's not why people play GTA."

   11. CWChris Williamson43:37

       That ship has sailed, Rockstar.

   12. CDCritical Drinker43:39

       Yeah, you can't-

   13. CWChris Williamson43:40

       That ship has sailed. (laughs) .

   14. CDCritical Drinker43:40

       ... you can't s- You can't suddenly rebrand yourself as a responsible company, like, you know, um, restricting all this stuff. But yeah, I think the reaction was pretty severe. Um, and I think with gaming, um, I, I'm trying to think what I can equate it to. Um, there was some- there was, like, the Battlefield games, you know, first-person shooters, and they tried to release one called Battlefield V a couple years ago. Set during World War II, but it had, uh, women fighting on the front lines with, uh, cybernetic arms and stuff, um, Asian men fighting in the, you know, in the European battlefield against Germans. Um, just, you know, ridiculous. But it's like, they tried, they put that in the trailer, they showed that stuff, and the reaction was apocalyptic. Like fans absolutely, um, lambasted the game as ridiculous, uh, and it sold terribly as a result. You know, so th- these things can happen. The backlash works in some cases.

10. 44:42 – 51:09

    Why Aren’t More Films Optimistic & Positive?

    1. CDCritical Drinker44:42

    2. CWChris Williamson44:42

       What... Y- y- so going beyond the interjection of race and gender and sexuality, it does also seem like there's a, kind of a negative, very pessimistic tenor to a lot of movies as well, that they don't s- seem to put across a lot of genuine hope. What do you think is going on there? Is that reflecting what our culture is like now? Is that impacting on culture? Or is it just the fact that we're coming out of the back end of, I don't know, a, a period where people aren't feeling too happy?

    3. CDCritical Drinker45:13

       I, I think so. I think, uh, it ties into this idea of... There's fewer just, like, heroic heroes, I suppose, um, and there's... Th- there's not the kind of patriotic movies that I think you used to get. You know, if you, if you look back to the 2000s particularly, you know, um, for rather obvious reasons, you know, America was fighting the war on terror, uh, and so there was a need and a desire for heroism, for, for pro-American movies, for, um, you know, for just patriotism. Um, and that doesn't really exist now. Um, and a- again, I don't know if it reflects a kind of lack of confidence. I don't know if it reflects, um, Hollywood's attitude to all things sort of American. Um, I, I don't know if there's weird associations there, where it's like they, they feel like it's dangerous to be, be too, you know, pro your own country. I'm not sure what the, the s- the idea behind it is. But yeah, I get what you're saying, in that, uh, there just doesn't seem to be that optimistic view of, like, the whole West, the whole idea of Western culture, I suppose, in movies.

    4. CWChris Williamson46:28

       But they'll repurpose Fast and Furious 9 and Dumbledore: Secrets of Albus, or whatever it's called, to make it appropriate for a Chinese audience.

    5. CDCritical Drinker46:40

       Yeah, it's interesting, that, isn't it? When money's involved. Um, yeah, man, I mean, I've s- we've seen it in f- ridiculous ways. Like, they, they tried to market Black Panther to the Chinese, who aren't very keen on the subject matter, and so they, they took Chadwick Boseman's face from the poster and put the, the Black Panther mask on him so you couldn't see what was underneath.

    6. CWChris Williamson47:03

       You're kidding me.

    7. CDCritical Drinker47:03

       To make it ac- No, that-

    8. CWChris Williamson47:05

       You're kidding me.

    9. CDCritical Drinker47:05

       They straight-up did that. They erased him from his own movie to try and make it more acceptable to Chinese audiences, and, uh, I thought the days of kowtowing to China were done, because it, it seemed for a while basically all Disney movies were getting banned there. They just couldn't get a release. And so you kind of thought, "Well, okay, maybe they'll just think, 'Fuck it.' Uh, let... If the Chinese won't accept us anyway, there's no point in trying to pander to them, let's do something really crazy, like be pro-America." You know? Uh, it, it's almost like we're an American company, and like, our whole... Like, Walt Disney's entire outlook on life was, um, like, a fondness for all things Americana. You know, he was a patriotic guy, he loved America. Um, it'd be nice if they could live up to that. But nah, they seem to have struck some kind of deal, I think, now that, um, Bob Iger is now back in charge. They seem to have smoothed things out with the Chinese government, and I've heard, I could be wrong, uh, but these are the rumors, that, uh, all the Marvel cast, all the Marvel actors are now being, um, sent on little training programs to teach them what's acceptable to say about China, so that they don't say anything in- offensive, you know, they don't mention Taiwan or anything like that.

    10. CWChris Williamson48:23

        Oh, so no one does a John Cena again.

    11. CDCritical Drinker48:25

        Yeah, exactly.

    12. CWChris Williamson48:26

        Then it's just John-

    13. CDCritical Drinker48:27

        Uh...

    14. CWChris Williamson48:27

        ... at the front. You s- you walk in and you've got Chris Hemsworth and you've got Robert Downey Jr., and then stood at the front in a teacher's outfit, you've just got-

    15. CDCritical Drinker48:35

        John Cena. (laughs)

    16. CWChris Williamson48:36

        John C-

    17. CDCritical Drinker48:36

        Don't end up like me.

    18. CWChris Williamson48:37

        John Cena.

    19. CDCritical Drinker48:39

        Yeah.

    20. CWChris Williamson48:40

        And you've got his entrance music. That's what I'm about.

    21. CDCritical Drinker48:42

        I, I... But I... That speech that he had to give, uh, and fair f- fair play for him p- s- you know, to be able to speak Mandarin, but, uh, y- to have to basically grovel, uh, and plead forgiveness because he dared to suggest that Taiwan was a country, um, my God, it was one of the most humiliating things I think I've ever seen. And I just think, imagine if that had...... happened back in the, the '80s or '90s. You know what I mean? Like, that would never have happened, but now this is the world that we live in, so. Yeah, okay, fine.

    22. CWChris Williamson49:16

        I mean, uh, it's so, uh, I, it's, it's hilarious, and I've spoken about it a ton, and it is embarrassing and cringeworthy and evidently just straight-up capitalism in its worst form. However, if there was the risk of the entire studio that you were with and all of your cast members and all of the people that you'd worked with, every single person basically having 50% or 30% or something of their revenue hanging on whether or not you're prepared to say something in Mandarin for 90 seconds, the pressure is absolutely astronomical. I, I'd still think it's a super cringeworthy thing to do, but the, uh, situation in which you wake up that morning and s- re- get the message from your manager or the studio saying, "Hiya, mate. You shouldn't have said that about Taiwan. We need you to fix this," there is a lot of pressure.

    23. CDCritical Drinker50:09

        I, I think in that specific instance, because the movie was made with the idea that it was gonna get released in China, and so, like, it would've been budgeted for that and so on, okay, there's not much you can do. Like, if you've screwed up, you're gonna have to try and fix it whatever way. But, uh, you have to ask yourself, you know, if you're actually planning your movie in the first place, um, what's your better strategy here? Is it, you know, we, we, uh, forgo any kind of American patriotism and we kind of, like, incorporate weird, uh, sort of pseudo-communist, like, messaging into our movie to make it acceptable to China so we get, like, an extra 20% revenue? Or do we go super patriotic for America and for, (coughs) like, pro Western culture and get, like, an extra 30 or 40% because people actually love, uh, what we've done over here? I know which way I'd rather go. You know what I mean? Like, I know which would be my preference, but that's just me. (laughs)

11. 51:09 – 55:19

    Is House of the Dragon Redeeming the Game of Thrones Franchise?

    1. CWChris Williamson51:09

       Game of Thrones finished, the main series finished, and pretty much everybody was disappointed with it. Which is a shame because your availability bias is always going to cause you to remember the most recent part of it. You know, if it, if it had a-

    2. CDCritical Drinker51:21

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson51:21

       ... shit season five and it then come back and smashed everything after that, then we might have more fond memories of it. Um, how many seasons of House of the Dragon do you think it's going to take for people to feel fondly again about the Game of Thrones franchise? Because I certainly know, as a huge Game of Thrones fan, that after the first season of House of the Dragon being really, really enjoyable, I thought it was really cool, uh, it, it has dampened at least probably 50% of my bad feelings toward that entire sort of organization. What's your thoughts?

    4. CDCritical Drinker52:00

       I think we're almost there actually. Yeah, I think, uh, season one of House of the Dragon was really good. It surprised a lot of people. It surprised me. I, I predicted it was gonna be pretty shit, uh, but it turned out to be really good, really smart, really well done. Uh, I think a good season two will cement it and I think people will be back invested in the world of Game of Thrones. It's not like people aren't gonna suddenly think that, uh, season eight was great all of a sudden. The... That's still a terrible thing. But (coughs) they will at least be invested in the world of Westeros again. Um, so I think as long as they don't screw up season two, uh, they're, they're laughing. And yeah, I must admit, it's a great comeback story. Nobody expected this.

    5. CWChris Williamson52:42

       Yeah, I, uh, I agree, man. I, uh, y- it's, the steaming pile of turd that was season eight can't be extinguished this late. That's already been burned to a crisp, and like you say, salted the earth afterward.

    6. CDCritical Drinker52:55

       Yeah.

    7. CWChris Williamson52:55

       But, uh, yeah. Uh, and that's good. I listened... I've actually just finished, I think it's called A World of Ice and Fire, or whatever, whatever the prequel book is that this series of House of the Dragon is based on. So I, I got super into it and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna get the book and listen to it." One bad thing has been that I now know everything that happens in season two, three and four because obviously I bought the book.

    8. CDCritical Drinker53:18

       Yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson53:18

       Uh, but I'm also super excited 'cause season two is way more exciting than season one, which is pretty cool. Uh, another thing-

    10. CDCritical Drinker53:24

        Yeah.

    11. CWChris Williamson53:24

        ... which I thought was a real surprise victory, another, uh, airplane watch, was Bullet Train.

    12. CDCritical Drinker53:31

        Yeah, I like that.

    13. CWChris Williamson53:33

        Bullet Train, I thought was absolutely phenomenal.

    14. CDCritical Drinker53:36

        Just a good, good fun, um, action comedy, you know? Um, didn't take itself too seriously, it didn't demand too much. And I, I've, you know, I've said this many times on my channel, there's a lot to be said for a simple concept well executed. And I think Bullet Train just does that perfectly. Nice easy movie to watch. Um, does have some smart, like, moments in it with, like, how, uh, things are set up in the early parts of the movie and then they get your payoff later on. Uh, I thought the characters were really good, um, really good fun. Um, I loved Oran- uh, Tangerine. Um, yeah, everyone loves Tangerine in that movie. (laughs)

    15. CWChris Williamson54:12

        It had that, um, it had that kind of Snatch/ Lock, Stock/ uh-

    16. CDCritical Drinker54:17

        Yes, very much.

    17. CWChris Williamson54:20

        ... The Gentlemen style to it.

    18. CDCritical Drinker54:22

        Yeah. Uh, yeah, very much did. Uh, it was kind of, uh... Yeah, I, I want more movies like that. I want Guy Ritchie to start making good movies again. Um, but yeah, uh, I think it was just, uh, yeah, a well-executed movie. Uh, didn't demand too much from anyone and, uh, yeah, I enjoyed it. It was nice of it... It had no messaging in it either, so that was nice.

    19. CWChris Williamson54:44

        Steady way... And also, I mean, it's racially representative. There was a, a, a big Black guy that liked Thomas the Tank Engine. There was a bunch of Asian people in there. There was a bunch of women in there. They were-

    20. CDCritical Drinker54:53

        I, I have no... (laughs) I, I kid you not, I have now started to perceive the world in terms of Thomas the Tank Engine.

    21. CWChris Williamson54:59

        (laughs)

    22. CDCritical Drinker54:59

        You know, I look at someone, someone who's being a total asshole, it's like, "You're a diesel." (laughs) You know?

    23. CWChris Williamson55:05

        (laughs)

    24. CDCritical Drinker55:07

        (laughs)

    25. CWChris Williamson55:07

        Yeah, okay. I, I don't think I know... My Thomas the Tank Engine lore isn't sufficiently deep for me to actually be able to use that effectively. But maybe, maybe that's a secret-

    26. CDCritical Drinker55:17

        (laughs)

    27. CWChris Williamson55:17

        ... secret philosophy that I need to work out. So

12. 55:19 – 58:30

    What Went Wrong with Jurassic World: Dominion

    1. CWChris Williamson55:19

       something that I was disappointed by, again, from a plane journey, uh, was Jurassic World Dominion.... what went wrong there.

    2. CDCritical Drinker55:27

       Oh, God. Everything. I mean, all of these Jurassic World movies are terrible as far as I'm concerned. They're all dumb. Uh, they're all derivative. They're just recycling the same ideas that we had in the very first movie in nine- 1993. I remember being a little kid and going to see Jurassic Park, and thought it was amazing. And s- it still is amazing. Um, but yeah, it's just a, a peak example of our lack of ideas, or, or Hollywood's lack of creativity. "We're just gonna recycle the same stuff over and over again." Um, so yeah, the, the, the whole concept of like, the dinosaurs and stuff is played out. Um, bringing back the original cast was just a desperation move 'cause they knew no one was gonna care about this movie. But the moment you say, "Well, you know, Alan Grant and Ellie and um, and Ian Malcolm, they're all gonna be together again on screen," you know, there's a little bit of interest there. But they were so underused. It was really clear that the script had no idea what to do with them. They're just wandering around looking confused most of the time. Uh, so yeah, man, it was just, uh, it was a desperation move to, to try and milk a bit more money out of the Jurassic Park franchise. Um, there was not an ounce of creativity behind it, um, and just monumentally dumb. Um, I r- even now I think back to like, the stupid locust plague and everything, I just think that, that, that didn't get an ounce of development. It was just a, a random idea that someone threw in. Awful.

    3. CWChris Williamson57:04

       Yes. It does seem really lazy. I mean, I have driven an ATV, a four-wheel ATV, through the valley that the first-ever helicopter shot coming into ... (singing)

    4. CDCritical Drinker57:18

       Yeah.

    5. CWChris Williamson57:20

       I've driven, uh, an ATV through that valley in Hawaii, and it was sick. And it was me on my own, traveling on my own, and a ton of Chinese tourists, and I was screaming that theme tune to myself-

    6. CDCritical Drinker57:30

       (laughs)

    7. CWChris Williamson57:30

       ... and they were all looking at me. And so, I have very fun memories of the Jurassic Park franchise. You get to go through, um ... What was the genetically engineered dinosaur from the first new one? The Indominus Rex.

    8. CDCritical Drinker57:43

       Oh, yeah, right. Indominus Rex, yeah.

    9. CWChris Williamson57:47

       Yes. So, you know it's got the scratch marks on the inside of the wall where it tried to get out? You can drive-

    10. CDCritical Drinker57:51

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CWChris Williamson57:51

        ... your little ATV through the door that's open, and you go through, and I'm like, this is, like, this is really cool. And I do have fond memories of that first one. But it's gone very quickly downhill. They kind of force-fed this random extra mother, uh, of the daughter, the, the daughter's not her daughter, it's a clone of her, back into the film-

    12. CDCritical Drinker58:10

        Yeah.

    13. CWChris Williamson58:10

        ... even though nobody mentioned her for the entirety of the first thing.

    14. CDCritical Drinker58:14

        And I- And of course, she was secretly the one who developed everything, all the technology behind Jurassic Park. It's just, no one thought to mention her back in the day. And it's like, yeah, classic retcon example. It's like-

    15. CWChris Williamson58:25

        Okay.

    16. CDCritical Drinker58:25

        ... "How, how dumb do you think we are?"

    17. CWChris Williamson58:28

        What ... Can you tell people the story

13. 58:30 – 1:06:45

    The Story of Superman’s Lips

    1. CWChris Williamson58:30

       of what happened with, uh, Superman's lip when he was-

    2. CDCritical Drinker58:37

       (laughs)

    3. CWChris Williamson58:38

       ... filmed in the most recent, uh ... 'Cause I've learned this-

    4. CDCritical Drinker58:42

       It's amazing.

    5. CWChris Williamson58:42

       I learned this from you. I learned this from you.

    6. CDCritical Drinker58:46

       Uh, to this day, I kid you not, I can look at pictures of Henry Cavill with that fake lip and it makes me laugh. But, um ... okay. The, the short version is, they had done the original version of Justice League. Zack Snyder was directing it. Uh, the studio were unhappy because, um, his previous movies hadn't done well. They wanted to lighten the tone, they wanted to make it funnier, all that stuff. Um, he couldn't do it, and then he, he was forced to drop out of the project because of a family, um, tragedy. So, they brought in Joss Whedon to lighten the tone, and he was basically told, "Fix this movie. Turn it into The Avengers." Uh, and so that was gonna require extensive reshoots. You know, they were gonna have to bring back all the actors, shoot like, you know, loads of new footage, uh, to try and fix this movie and make it fun and, and upbeat and all that. Uh, so they, they brought back Ben Affleck, who was in the middle of a divorce and he was alcoholic at the time. He hadn't trained in months, and so he was about 30 pounds heavier, uh, looked like a completely different person. So, he was brought back in. (laughs) He literally, his face changes from scene to scene, like it's weird. Um, and they also brought back Henry Cavill, who was in the middle of shooting Mission: Impossible - Fallout, um, and he'd grown a sweet, sweet tash for that one, uh, which was great, um, but the (laughs) ... I think it was Paramount who did it. They wouldn't, um, give him permission to shave off his mustache so that he could wear a fake one, so they could do these reshoots. Um, (clears throat) so the only option was get him in, Superman costume, um, with his mustache and everything, and then we'll just digitally remove it later. But again, because everything was done to these insanely tight timescales, they didn't have time to do it properly, and so you've just got this ridiculous mismatched mouth with like, lips that don't line up and ugh. It's, it's one of the saddest things I think I've ever seen, but it's also hilarious. (laughs)

    7. CWChris Williamson1:00:42

       I can't wait until the day when I have a job where I've got a contractually obliged mustache. I feel like that's when you know that you've made it.

    8. CDCritical Drinker1:00:50

       I, it's great. I, I just love ... Because he could so easily have worn a fake mustache and it would've looked 100% convincing. Like, actors do it all the time. But I honestly feel like (clears throat) the studio just wanted to be dicks and said, "Nah, you're not, you're not shaving it off."

    9. CWChris Williamson1:01:04

       Oh yeah, if you're Paramount, why wouldn't you stick the middle finger up to DCU? Absolutely.

    10. CDCritical Drinker1:01:07

        Yeah. (laughs) Warner Brothers, "Nah, you're gonna have to spend millions of dollars removing that." And I always laugh about-

    11. CWChris Williamson1:01:13

        Just his upper lip.

    12. CDCritical Drinker1:01:14

        And I always laugh, thinking like, there's CGI artists that signed up for this movie thinking, "We're gonna be rendering crazy like, alien battles and landscapes and explosions and stuff," and, and instead they're told, "Nah, you've got to work on Henry Cavill's lips." (laughs)

    13. CWChris Williamson1:01:29

        Oh, you're the Henry Cavill's lip department.

    14. CDCritical Drinker1:01:33

        Yeah. (laughs) Just-

    15. CWChris Williamson1:01:33

        You, you've v- ver- congratulations on working on your first DC Universe movie. Uh, you're gonna take on a very, very important role here. Uh, you and Henry Cavill's upper lip are going to become intimately familiar with each other, and I need you to remove it frame by frame. Thank you.

    16. CDCritical Drinker1:01:48

        I mean, maybe, maybe they did a really shit job, and so like, uh, you know, they did it on purpose almost. It's like, "We've been given the worst role in the entire movie, we're just gonna absolutely screw it up." I don't know. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's a great piece of cinema lore. (laughs)

    17. CWChris Williamson1:02:03

        Yes. I also learned another piece of cinema lore from you, that Nick Cage was going to be Superman briefly.

    18. CDCritical Drinker1:02:10

        He was. He was, yeah. Not so briefly, for like t- three years, I think he was attached to it. Um, yeah, this was a piece of legendary f- uh, failure on Hollywood's part. They wanted to do another Superman movie. They wanted to cast a new edgy, you know, cool actor, and Nick Cage was like super cool at the time. Uh, it's hard to believe now, but he was. Uh, and so y- yeah, he was attached to the project. Um, it was gonna have Tim Burton directing it. Uh, unfortunately Tim Burton came in and decided he wanted to change the entire script, it dragged on for years, and eventually the studio interfered too much. Tim Burton walked away, Nick Cage walked away, the whole project failed. And I think they spent about $30 million on a film that they didn't shoot a single frame of footage on. Incredible waste of money. But there it is.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:03:01

        That is wild.

    20. CDCritical Drinker1:03:01

        Yeah, and so we could... Well, what's even better is like if this movie had gone into production, the plan was that they were gonna have a tie-in with the Joel Schumacher Batman movies at the time, which was the George Clooney one. Um, so you were gonna have Nick Cage, George Clooney, you know, fighting crime together, uh, and potentially even leading into a Justice League movie, and I just think that would've been fantastic. (laughs) Goofy l-

    21. CWChris Williamson1:03:30

        Dude, I would've watched that. Uh, that would've been a good competitor for whatever the, the non-Snyder Cut thing was that they ended up doing. ... I honestly-

    22. CDCritical Drinker1:03:41

        I thought this ... Yeah, yeah, when I think about how safe and boring and bland movies are now, especially superhero ones, I think something like that would be so shit but so amazing at the same time. (laughs)

    23. CWChris Williamson1:03:52

        Yes, yes. I don't know, man. I mean, the, the DCU generally is just ... I've never got into it. I've never, ever, ever felt as compelled.

    24. CDCritical Drinker1:04:02

        Yeah.

    25. CWChris Williamson1:04:02

        And I mean, uh, you know, like Marvel's whatever we're o- ... What is it now? Uh, generation four for Marvel, five?

    26. CDCritical Drinker1:04:08

        Pha- the phase five they're into now, yeah.

    27. CWChris Williamson1:04:11

        Phase f- phase five. I mean, that, that was bad. Endgame really was kind of the end game of all of the stuff that was good about that. But, I mean, that period that we had, we were so spoiled. When you actually look back at that, yeah, there was some kind of misses, but for the most part, that was a really great series of superhero movies. Big budget, quite classic storylines, compelling protagonists, good enemies. Uh, you ... There's, there's humor in there but it's not stupid. There's role models in there but they're not patronizing. It was great. And then, yeah, it feels like we blew our load very soon. It was like the premature parade for the early 2010s, and now, uh, we're left in this sort of wasteland, m- looking for scraps on the floor.

    28. CDCritical Drinker1:04:55

        Yeah. I, I think, um, it may be that superhero movies are now moving into the parody phase, which is generally the last phase of a, a genre before it dies off. Uh, and I'm fine with that. We've had 20 years of this stuff now, kind of ready for something else to, to, you know, take the center stage in Hollywood. Um, but yeah, whatever, (clears throat) whatever Marvel became, you know, however much they, they were probably victims of their own success and they've eventually gone off the rails, um, we'll see if they maybe pick up in phase five. But they at least flew before they crashed and burned, like whereas it feels like DC never got off the ground. And it's frustrating because they had without doubt the best characters. You know, before all of this, before Marvel took off, who the hell had ever heard of Iron Man or the Guardians of the Galaxy? Outside of the, like, comic book industry, outside of like people who are really into that stuff, who had ever heard of any of those characters? Who had heard of, you know, uh, Captain America or anything? But everyone had heard of Superman, everyone heard of Batman, everyone heard of Wonder Woman. DC had those characters, they had them ready to go, they could've been a genuine, uh, alternative to Marvel. You know, just some- uh, something on the same level, if not even bigger, uh, if they'd been properly managed. But they left it too late, they tried to play catch-up, they rushed everything, they screwed it up tur- uh, time after time, um, and were constantly trying to fix their mistakes without understanding what the mistakes were. I think D- the DC on film over the past 10 years, that's gonna go down as one of the biggest wastes of talent and time and money and potential in all of cinema history.

    29. CWChris Williamson1:06:41

        What about this fallout from Justin Roiland recently?

14. 1:06:45 – 1:09:09

    Rick & Morty Co-Founder’s Downfall

    1. CWChris Williamson1:06:45

       So for the people that don't know, one of the two writers, creators from-

    2. CDCritical Drinker1:06:51

       Yeah.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:06:52

       ... Rick and Morty, uh, has been popped for some pretty incriminating text messages to both women and girls. Uh, it seems like he's got an alcohol problem, and this has been going on for quite a long time, and it seems to be pretty widespread. He's kind of part of this ... I've called, I've been calling it the, uh, the second, uh, MeToo or the internet's MeToo, with Andrew Callaghan from chan- Channel 5, uh, Chris D'Elia with The Chris D'Elia Problem documentary that just came out. Uh, Justin Roiland. You've got this sort of n- new wave of, of guys that have kind of been popped by this. Um, it seems like Rick and Morty had already started to lose some of its core fan base in any case. Some people felt it was falling off the wagon. I feel like this might be a-... final nail in the coffin.

    4. CDCritical Drinker1:07:38

       Yeah, man. I, I, I agree. Like, I watched the first few seasons, and I was entranced by it. It was super clever, witty, edgy. You know, just great fun. Great, um, great sort of sci-fi comedy. Uh, I think it, it, as it developed, it became more mainstream, and so it started to preach the message, which is, you know, obviously I've talked about a lot on my channel. Um, and it started to turn people off 'cause it's like, it just became a sellout really. Um, and with Roiland, yeah, man, like not only have you lost 50% of your writing team, but you've also lost literally the voice for Rick and Morty. So, I don't really understand how the show's meant to continue without him. You know? (laughs) It's just, uh-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:08:25

       Shit, I forgot, I fucking forgot that he voices the two (laughs) the two characters in the show.

    6. CDCritical Drinker1:08:31

       How are, how are you gonna ... It's like, yeah, you're Rick and Morty, how can we, how can we have Rick and Morty without Rick and Morty, like, uh ...

    7. CWChris Williamson1:08:38

       Well, you're not gonna be able to, uh, Two and a Half Men your way through by just swapping out one of the protagonists with this one. He i- he is the protagonist.

    8. CDCritical Drinker1:08:48

       That's it, yeah. I mean, you, you probably get a voice actor who can approximate his, his voice, but like, people are gonna know it's not the same. And, yeah man, I just think this is the final nail in the coffin for Rick and Morty. I think it's just done.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:09:02

       What a shame. What is coming out that you are most excited about over the next couple of years?

15. 1:09:09 – 1:14:28

    What is Critical Drinker Looking Forward To?

    1. CWChris Williamson1:09:09

    2. CDCritical Drinker1:09:09

       Uh, so absolutely nothing. Uh, I hate all of modern cinema and I want it to die. (laughs)

    3. CWChris Williamson1:09:17

       Yeah. Fantastic.

    4. CDCritical Drinker1:09:19

       I, I ... No, I mean, I, I joke. Um, probably Dune II, um, I'll be interested to watch that because I very much enjoyed the first one and, uh, yeah, I think that's, uh, that's hopefully gonna be good. You know, I've read the book and, uh, and loved it like as a teenager, so it's, it's nice to see a good adaptation on screen. Uh, so something like that. God, I'm trying to think of anything else really that's exciting me. Nothing from Marvel I care about. Um-

    5. CWChris Williamson1:09:43

       Oh shit, have you seen, uh, have you seen Severance?

    6. CDCritical Drinker1:09:47

       No, people have been recommending that to me though. Is it good?

    7. CWChris Williamson1:09:50

       So I'm only one episode in. I'm only one episode in. Uh, for the people that haven't heard about this, I don't even know what it is at the moment, it's I guess like a s- s- sort of science fictiony drama. It's about, uh, people that go to work at a particular place and they can't take their memories from inside of work outside or from outside inside.

    8. CDCritical Drinker1:10:12

       Right.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:10:12

       Uh, and they have to sign this contract and, uh, I'm only one episode in. I, I was pretty enthralled by it to start with 'cause there's a lot of questions. Why have these people agreed to this job? All of the jobs seem, uh, really kind of pointless, you don't really understand what's going on. So there's just a lot of questions. So that's, that's definitely ... That and The Last of Us, um, are two things that I've been pretty impressed by recently. But looking forward-

    10. CDCritical Drinker1:10:37

        Yeah.

    11. CWChris Williamson1:10:37

        ... uh, the, the future, sadly, I fear might be as bleak as you're saying. I don't know of anything really. Apart from watching, uh, Harry Potter Hogwarts Legacy play through videos on YouTube, there isn't much that I've been ridiculously excited by.

    12. CDCritical Drinker1:10:55

        I mean, I'll, I'll be ex- I'll be happy to watch Cobra Kai season six because I think that's gonna be the final season. Um, House of the Dragon season two I'll be, I'll be interested in. The next Stranger Things 'cause that, that's a show that really redeemed itself as well. That really came back from the brink. Uh, so probably TV is gonna be the more exciting thing for me I guess.

    13. CWChris Williamson1:11:17

        Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, that's been what's salvaged a lot of ... Uh, I, I mean look at my watch time. Like, if I go on and, and you go onto Netflix, I'm not going onto movies if I'm struggling. You know when you're deep in the Netflix hole desperately trying to find something? I'm going into either documentaries or series, I'm just never going into movies 'cause I very, very rarely find a movie that just makes me feel satisfied or gives a payoff at the end. But yeah, I'm, I have hope, uh, despite the incredibly despondent, uh, way to look to the future. I do have hope with this, whatever you want to say, like the Drinka's Lagging Hypothesis or the Production Laging Hypothesis that you've come up with, which is in three years time. One, one thing that I do want to know actually is, you said that parody is the final stage of a, a cycle of a genre.

    14. CDCritical Drinker1:12:04

        Hm.

    15. CWChris Williamson1:12:04

        Is this a well-understood journey?

    16. CDCritical Drinker1:12:09

        Yeah. I, I, I think, uh, there, it's generally seen as, I can't remember who wrote it originally, but it's the genre theory that, that I think there's four stages to it. So the first stage is like the, the early kind of, you know, prototype stage of a genre. Like, the, the ones that become breakthrough movies and clue people into the idea that, uh, it, it could be a viable thing. Uh, then you've got like the, um, maturity stage where, um, it's, uh, it kind of reaches its golden e- golden age, like where, like ideas start to mature, uh, they get really good at producing the movies. Then you've got the, um, deconstruction phase where they start to explore, you know, different ideas. Like, they're, they're always looking for new angles on this genre. Uh, and then last of all you've got the parody phase. So it's kind of like we, we pioneer it, we perfect it, we, um, tinker with it and take it apart, and then we just have a laugh at it and mock it, and then we're done. That's, that's the four stages of ...

    17. CWChris Williamson1:13:11

        Would that be like Iron Man into the most of the MCU from the 2010s, into Endgame, into Th- Thor: Love and Thunder?

    18. CDCritical Drinker1:13:25

        Yeah. I, I would say that that would probably be your ... Yeah. Your, your best way of looking at it. Um, y- you can, you can kind of apply it to the western genre, that's what ... Use your good example. You know, your early ones would be your John Wayne movies. Uh, then you get your, you know, your, your, um, sort of classic ones with him. Uh, and then you get your sort of Clint Eastwood spaghetti western ones which is like the deconstructed hero. Uh, and then you get your parody ones like Blazing Saddles and stuff like that, and then it's just done. You know? So, uh, yeah, we're, we're at the parody phase now I feel like with superhero movies. Like, whether it's intentional or not, like most Marvel movies are just parodies now, uh, of, of what they once were. And, uh, I'm more than happy for that genre to, to wind up now and just we can move onto something else because I'm getting really tired of reviewing superhero movies. (laughs) You know, in the cinema.

    19. CWChris Williamson1:14:17

        Yeah, I, I imagine, I imagine that you can be. Yeah, taking it out back and putting a bolt in its head might be a, a good idea. Look, Drinka, dude, I really appreciate you. Where should people go if they want to check out more of your stuff?

16. 1:14:28 – 1:15:32

    Where to Find Critical Drinker

    1. CWChris Williamson1:14:28

       Your YouTube's absolutely fascinating so everyone should go and look at that.

    2. CDCritical Drinker1:14:31

       Yeah. Uh, so I'm, obviously I'm producing new YouTube videos on both my channels like every couple of days. I do live streams every Thursday night on Open Bar. Um, you can find me on Twitter as well, and I've also got a bunch of stuff that I'm working on at the moment. Uh, I've got a whole bunch of novels that I've written called the Ryan Drake series, uh, and I've got a comic that's, uh, recently come out and it's through Indiegogo that you can order that, so that's called A New Kind of War. Uh, so those are all the things I'm working on right now. And also a short movie that I'm producing, so that's been fun as well.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:15:05

       Busy, busy guy.

    4. CDCritical Drinker1:15:06

       Yeah. (laughs)

    5. CWChris Williamson1:15:07

       Cool. Excited for you.

    6. CDCritical Drinker1:15:08

       Thank you.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:15:10

       All right man, thank you for your time today.

    8. CDCritical Drinker1:15:12

       Cheers.

    9. CWChris Williamson1:15:13

       What's happening people? Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks. And don't forget to subscribe. Peace.

Episode duration: 1:15:32