How To Become Psychologically Healthy & Attractive - Sadia Khan

1. 0:00 – 0:50

   Intro

   1. SKSadia Khan0:00

      There's nowhere worse than Dubai because the promiscuity in Dubai amongst men and women, it's the only city in the world where the women are far more promiscuous than the men. Far more. Because what's happened to the women that come to rich cities is they come emotionally detached. They come with the idea that, "I wanna meet a rich man." Now, that woman is completely different to the woman that comes to a city and says, "I wanna fall in love and have kids." Now, that emotionally detached woman who comes, "I want a good life," is never emotionally invested. And here's the mistake a lot of rich men make. They seem to think that if they can support a girl and give her a good life, loyalty is a given. But what they're forgetting is a woman that craves a good life doesn't seek emotional intimacy. She seeks financial intimacy. Uh, any woman who doesn't seek emotional intimacy is far more likely to stray. (air whooshing)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:48

      What's your background, for the people that don't know you?

2. 0:50 – 3:30

   Sadia’s Background

   1. CWChris Williamson0:50

   2. SKSadia Khan0:50

      Uh, my name is Sabia. I am a relationship coach. I used to be a psychology teacher. I studied psychology and then I went on to do my master's in psychotherapy and education. So I was teaching psychology for many, many years in London and Dubai. And then only about a year ago, about a year or so ago, I decided to kind of give a little bit of the relationship advice that I learned, uh, in, in my studies. I thought, "Let me just post one or two videos, and because it seems like there's a, a gap of understanding in the market." I just saw so many podcasts teaching the wrong things that I thought, "Let me just give a little bit of advice." And, um, it kind of went a little bit big on social media. So now I, I stopped teaching and I've gone into full-time, um, relationship coaching.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:39

      What is it that you see on the internet with regards to relationship advice that was the most egregious? What were people getting most wrong that lit a fire under your psychology background?

   4. SKSadia Khan1:51

      Um, I think what I couldn't understand is why we were pitting men and women against each other. I couldn't understand that battle. I didn't understand what positive outcomes could ever come from making men think women are users and abusers and they're awful, and women thinking men are dangerous and aggressive and cheats. I couldn't understand, um, where this anger and hostility was coming from. And more so, I didn't understand how it's gonna benefit people by thinking like this. So I just wanted to debunk some of this kind of, uh, the zeitgeist to just kind of hate the opposite gender.

   5. CWChris Williamson2:26

      Why do you think that has become so prevalent?

   6. SKSadia Khan2:29

      I think what's happened is... Firstly, it's great for clickbait. It's r- fantastic for, like... Because lonely people are attached to what they see on the internet the most. So when you're saying something that triggers the people that have been hurt, they are gonna share, repost, watch, et cetera. So when we tap into vulnerable people or people who've been broken or hurt, we're going to get more views, we're going to blow up quicker and easier. So I think tapping into, you know, online success, they wanna divide and conquer. That's always the b- best strategy. The other thing is, is that a lot of people actually haven't had relationship experiences, especially the younger generation. They haven't had that much experience, so they learn a lot of it from watching online and watching memes and so on and so forth. So I think it's become people's template. They use the internet as a template for relationships if they've been modeled it at home. And as a result, that's why they stick to the, the information that they're getting online.

   7. CWChris Williamson3:28

      I tweeted literally just before we got

3. 3:30 – 7:23

   Why the Sexes are Battling Each Other

   1. CWChris Williamson3:30

      started, "The cynicism safety blanket. Cynicism is a guarded response. You're setting yourself up against disappointment. Its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad. It is a preemptive strike against a perceived threat. If I tell myself that all women are bad, then I'm less likely to seek relationship with women, and as a consequence, I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection. If I tell myself that everything is shit or that things will never get better, then I'm excused of ever having to try anything. It's more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism. The cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing and optimism as delusion. It's sour grapes at an existential level. If everything sucks and everyone is horrible and reality is disappointing, and you know that for a fact, it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb, delusional, and the problem, the upside of never having to feel the pain of failure."

   2. SKSadia Khan4:24

      That's a very impressive post, Chris.

   3. CWChris Williamson4:27

      What can I say?

   4. SKSadia Khan4:28

      (laughs) I don't know.

   5. CWChris Williamson4:29

      Uh, my point being, my point being that I think if someone... We, we have a, a generalized risk aversion at the moment. Young people are getting their driving license later. They're having less casual sex, they're drinking alcohol less, they're taking fewer drugs. They are starting getting jobs later in life. Ev- it's slow life strategy. Everything is getting pushed out because people don't deal with risk particularly well. And, you know, even if you're a sigma male, gym emo, it's still the same on your side too, that you're prepared to do hard things, but only within the bounds of what you consider to be acceptably hard.

   6. SKSadia Khan5:03

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson5:04

      And yeah, this adversarial relationship or nature that's being sort of posited as men and women are each other's enemies, something that I've noticed.

   8. SKSadia Khan5:11

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson5:11

      Um, and the same thing goes for, I guess, people just being concerned about, "Okay, what, what does the future hold?"

   10. SKSadia Khan5:19

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson5:19

       "I will take all of my cues about this from the internet."

   12. SKSadia Khan5:22

       Yeah. Exactly that. What happens is, especially when we have low self-esteem, um, when we've got low self-esteem, the ego has to find ways to defend itself. We need to defend our ego because we don't have pure self-love and self-esteem. And the quickest and easiest way to defend your ego is by rejecting what may reject you. If I quickly say, "Oh, who wants abs?" I don't have to go to the gym. If I quickly say, "Oh, god. Men are trash," I don't have to work on myself to sustain a positive relationship. If I quickly reject what I believe will reject me, I then defend myself against the possibility of any kind of new trauma. So it's usually a trauma response, but really it's stemming from low self-esteem. And I, I... That's what it screams to me when I see these people who are trying to divide men and women and almost take pleasure out of insulting the opposite gender. I, I, I just never understood it.

   13. CWChris Williamson6:11

       Shared hatreds are much more cohesive than shared loves.

   14. SKSadia Khan6:15

       Mm.

   15. CWChris Williamson6:15

       And getting people to bind together over the mutual distaste of an out group is significantly easier than the mutual love of an in group, which is why there are incentives online for creators to do this.

   16. SKSadia Khan6:27

       Mm, exactly that, because here's the thing. Not every creator is trying to change your life for the better. Most creators are trying to sell you something, they're trying to get popularity, they're designed to polarize, they're designed to kind of make it online. And, uh, you know, and anybody could say the same for me. They're saying like, "Oh, you're trying to, you know, blow up and all this stuff." Which I, I, I j- I hope people know that's not really the intention. But the reality is most creators are creating, they're not actually healing. And the problem is they appeal to the young market because there's a gap. The older psychologists who understand all the academic references and all of those things, they don't understand the young market of dating. And because of that huge gap, the young people are thinking, "I don't need to go to an expert. I'll just go to this podcast with that guy and this girl, and they will tell me because they get it." They don't get it. They just get you. They get what you're going through and want to manipulate your vulnerabilities in order for you to become a consumer of this.

4. 7:23 – 13:05

   Current Dating is Practice for Divorce

   1. SKSadia Khan7:24

   2. CWChris Williamson7:24

      I've heard you say that current dating is just practicing for divorce.

   3. SKSadia Khan7:28

      (laughs)

   4. CWChris Williamson7:28

      What's that mean?

   5. SKSadia Khan7:30

      It means you're learning the tools and skills required to recover from a breakup rather than how to maintain a marriage. So you are learning how to make somebody jealous, how to move on quickly, how to meet somebody new, how to play hard to get, how to play games, how to essentially ensure your relationship will not make it through the tough times. You're not learning how to sustain and maintain and how to, uh, debunk some of the behaviors in yourself that are toxic to the relationship. You're just learning how to, uh, categorize every ex of yours as a narcissist, but not about what behaviors or traits in you attract or even are narcissistic. So, I think the current dating climate is purely, "How do I move on? How do I protect myself? How do I not get too attached?" Catch flights, not feelings. That culture is what we're being taught.

   6. CWChris Williamson8:18

      I guess this is similar to what we said before, the risk aversion, the guarded response.

   7. SKSadia Khan8:23

      Exactly. Mm-hmm. Exactly that. That's what it is, what, uh, w- I mean, in your opinion, have you noticed that as well, like from a man's perspective? I mean, I've noticed it as a woman because I remember trying to share something positive about men, um, and I couldn't find a meme online. I was looking and scrolling, I was trying to find something to show how lovely it is when you're loved by a man, and I scrolled for hours and hours and I couldn't find anything. But when I try and look for a meme that will say, "Men are this, men are that," it, within a second, and then that was my wake up moment, 'cause I was just like, even if I wanted to say something positive about my partner, I can't find anything online. Um, and then I realized that it is a culture of getting you to hate men. Is it the same in, for men? Do you find that the same kind of culture is being, trying to be breeded?

   8. CWChris Williamson9:07

      Certainly in terms of men having distaste for women.

   9. SKSadia Khan9:13

      Mm.

   10. CWChris Williamson9:13

       Uh, you know, like, "Don't worry, king, you don't need her. She's just a hoe in any case."

   11. SKSadia Khan9:18

       (laughs)

   12. CWChris Williamson9:18

       You know, like sigma- sigma male memes abound.

   13. SKSadia Khan9:21

       Yeah. Mm-hmm.

   14. CWChris Williamson9:22

       There's a lot less positivity from men to men generally.

   15. SKSadia Khan9:28

       Right.

   16. CWChris Williamson9:28

       I think that there are still pro-women women cohorts.

   17. SKSadia Khan9:33

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson9:33

       But there are fewer pro-men male cohorts. And, um, you know, that's partly just because of the trend. Y- E- Everyone says like, "Women will give their, uh, give people compliments and not mean them. Men will take the piss out of each other and not mean it." It's-

   19. SKSadia Khan9:48

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson9:48

       ... that kind of balance, but it, it can mean-

   21. SKSadia Khan9:51

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson9:51

       You know, think about Jordan Peterson, right? Why he came onto the scene so much, and he, he used to tear up all the time telling the same story.

   23. SKSadia Khan9:58

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson9:58

       Which was, these men have never had a positive word told to them their entire lives. They've never been encouraged, they've never been told that they're worthy of love or acceptance or praise or validity or any of that.

   25. SKSadia Khan10:09

       Yeah. Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson10:09

       Why did that message resonate? Because so many men felt and still do feel like no one sees them, that life can be hard, that they do have emotions-

   27. SKSadia Khan10:18

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson10:18

       ... that they do want to open up, that they do need support, that they do want to be praised in a way. And because there is nothing deeper, I think, because there is still, uh, a challenge in maybe men opening up themselves is, the, some of the boundaries of that have been broken. But the boundaries of men responding to men that have opened up definitely still exist in a massive, massive way. So, okay-

   29. SKSadia Khan10:43

       Absolutely.

   30. CWChris Williamson10:43

       ... what are the ways in which I can get some validation from the world? Well, success, money, cars, education, women, status, prestige, dominance-
5. 13:05 – 20:45

   The Biggest Predictors of Divorce

   1. CWChris Williamson13:05

      divorce.

   2. SKSadia Khan13:06

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson13:07

      What did you find?

   4. SKSadia Khan13:09

      Well, I- I- I have to give credit where credit's due, but the- the most longstanding research into, uh, marriage and relationships was by the Gottman Institution, and they did the most scientific and objective analysis of relationships, and they studied 10,000 couples in a lab over a couple of days. And they were able to predict with 80% accuracy which couples would stay together and which ones would get divorced within a year. And it was so simple what they were able to find, and it was simple thing as responding to each other's bids for connection. What I mean by this is when we have a partnership where one person comes home and expresses an emotion, the other one picks up on it, that partnership has the, uh, base levels to last a really long time. So it could be a simple thing, like you come home from work and say, "Oh, I'm so tired," and your partner says, "Why? What's wrong?" Simple connection. From that connection, they trust each other, and then they start to lean into each other. But if you come home and you're like, "I'm so tired," and your partner either says nothing or says, "Why are you tired? I'm the one that's been with the kids all day," or, "What have you done all day? I've been at work all day," that turning away from each other's emotional needs is the training ground for divorce. They are now setting themselves up for divorce. And it might not happen today, it might not happen tomorrow, it might last another 10, 15 years, but we get emotionally exhausted by having partners who reject our kind of advances for connection, and eventually the relationship ends.

   5. CWChris Williamson14:35

      Why is it the case then that divorce rates are rising? If that's the biggest predictor, if that's 80% accuracy of being able to predict, why has that specific trait changed so much over the last 50 years?

   6. SKSadia Khan14:51

      Distractions. Distractions, distractions, distractions. There are alternatives to everything. Even if you want a meal, you'll have 50 alternatives on Uber Eats. You wanna go out to eat, there's 50 places that you could go. You wanna watch something, there's 50 alternatives of what to watch. There are so many alternatives to every single asset- uh, aspect of life that it makes it almost impossible to invest in one. Everybody and everything becomes disposable. So what's happening is when your partner comes home a bit tired or stressed, maybe in the past you'd pick up on it, but now you're on your phone. Or maybe when your partner wanted to watch a series that you didn't care about, in the past you may have been like, "Okay, it's fine. It's- I'll just get on with it. There's nothing else on." Now, like, "You watch this. I'm gonna watch that." There are so many alternatives to everybody, and every- every person is now becoming so disposable that we can no longer, uh, have the patience to invest in people's emotional needs. And we're becoming so hedonistic that our emotional needs come first. And we're being taught this in society more and more, where I talk to- we're always talked about put you first, self-esteem, self-assurance, self-actualization. The word self is kind of programmed in our psyche, and the collectivism that we used to have as a society is gone. So we're no longer getting happiness from somebody else's happiness. It's a- it's a selfish pursuit now, unfortunately.

   7. CWChris Williamson16:12

      Isn't it strange that the trait of focusing not on somebody else's r- desire for connection is causing you-

   8. SKSadia Khan16:23

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson16:23

      ... to turn inward? That is causing divorces to increase down the line, which means that people respond to that by being more defensive, by being more guarded and more cynical, which makes them turn further inward, which makes them less of an eligible partner to the next relationship-

   10. SKSadia Khan16:38

       Very true. Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson16:38

       ... which then just creates a cycle that then gets broadcast-

   12. SKSadia Khan16:41

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson16:41

       ... onto the internet. People who haven't had much experience in relationships because they're young or because they fail out or because they're concerned or-

   14. SKSadia Khan16:47

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson16:47

       ... or nervous or e- a- averted to risk use that as their proxy and say, "Right, well, I'd better enter into this relationship guarding myself so that I don't get hurt," which makes it more likely that it's going to break up and the cycle just continues.

   16. SKSadia Khan17:01

       Yeah. It's exactly that what happens is we're actually entering relationships with our armor up. But in the process of playing those games, like not texting back, uh, not getting too close, not attaching, not telling them that you miss them, not telling them that you love them, you are training somebody to love you in the wrong way. If I'm somebody who's needy and I actually need lots of love and reassurance, but I don't want to text first, and I don't want to be looking needy, and I don't want to say, "I miss you" because I'm gonna wait for him, I'm then teaching him that I'm cool, calm, and collect, and I don't care when I hear from him. If I see you, I see you. But then he's under- uh, he's not getting the training ground of what I truly want. He's not getting access to my true needs. So I am now no longer communicating effectively. I'm actually teaching him how to love in a- in a very avoidant and dismissive manner because I'm pretending to be cool. When really if I say, "Look, I n- I need to speak to my partner on a daily basis. I like to see you regularly. I love you. I miss you." What is this? I like labels. When I start communicating my needs, he will actually learn how to love me. But we're teaching people to do the opposite. We're teaching people to pretend that they're somebody else, and especially pretend that they're avoidant, pr- pretend that they're independent, depend that they- uh, pretend that they don't have these needs. So essentially, we're going to attract the wrong partner.

   17. CWChris Williamson18:15

       What else have you found that is a predictor of a toxic or a negative or a declining relationship?

   18. SKSadia Khan18:23

       Uh, criticism over praise. Um, again with the research, uh, one of the things that they find is partners that last are ones that praise a substantial amount compared to criticism. So they scan the environment to kind of praise their partner. They'll look for excuses to praise their partner, like even if it's as simple as like, um, "You make the bed so good. Every time I come home, the house is clean." These tiny things. Any opportunity to praise their partner. But what happens in relationships that end is they can't remember the last time they complimented each other. They think it should be a given. Uh, they think, "Well, you know I think you're pretty because I'm with you, aren't I?" Or, "You know I'm grateful that you pay the bills," like, uh, uh, "I'm, I'm s-" Like, you're a guy. Why do you need compliments? Men are craving this. I've noticed a lot in, in my practice, the men that often have affairs, they're not actually seeking sex. They're seeking a woman that compliments them. They say they can't remember the last time a woman told them that he looks great. Whereas for women, we, uh, our partner says it but also our friends will tell us. Uh, people will tell us. You know, we're, we're always being told we're beautiful or whatever it is. Uh, but for men, if their partner doesn't tell them, nobody does. So when they meet somebody who simply tells them they look good, they feel, they, they're intelligent, something to validate them, they immediately become attracted to that because they're starved of it. So praise is something that I think couples forget how important it is.

   19. CWChris Williamson19:48

       I suppose that game-playing and the rivalry that sometimes happens in relationships as they start to go downhill, that makes the situation worse because you're not going to praise somebody that you think is your rival or that you're trying to play games with-

   20. SKSadia Khan20:02

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson20:02

       ... or that you're unsure about the level of trust that you should put in them.

   22. SKSadia Khan20:06

       Well, well, whoever you don't feel safe with. Thing is, all of these things that I'm saying, they only come when you feel safe. Now simple things like liking other girls' pictures or following people now makes people feel super unsafe. Super, super unsafe so then guards go up. I know people that the moment they add somebody on Instagram and they see who they're following, they might have had a really great date with them, everything was great, but then they look at who they're following and they're like, "Oh," straightaway insecurities, guards everything. So we're now unfortunately in an environment where you're thrown into the deep end. All your insecurities can now come alive through the use of social media. So people are going into relationships ready for it to fall apart.

6. 20:45 – 27:25

   What Actually is Trauma?

   1. CWChris Williamson20:45

      You've done a ton of work on trauma. You've mentioned that word maybe a couple of times already.

   2. SKSadia Khan20:49

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson20:49

      I live in Austin, Texas. Austin, Texas, is the sort of place where when I walk into a sauna someone is talking about their trauma work that they've just done at an MDMA-

   4. SKSadia Khan20:58

      Oh, wow.

   5. CWChris Williamson20:58

      ... ketamine therapy-assisted sound bath in South America, and it's got me a little turned off from the word.

   6. SKSadia Khan21:06

      (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson21:06

      I understand that trauma is a big deal.

   8. SKSadia Khan21:08

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson21:08

      We've had guys on that run psychedelic-assisted therapy for PTSD for veterans.

   10. SKSadia Khan21:15

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson21:17

       But what is bollocks and what is not bollocks in the world of trauma? Where are people getting out over their skis, where is it truthful?

   12. SKSadia Khan21:26

       Well, here's the thing. There's trauma and then there's stress. Stress is situational, yeah? It happens, you have a response to the stress, uh, to what's going on, and you're stressed about it. How you know something is trauma is their response is disproportionate to the sc- scenario. That suggests that there is a preexisting wound. Something's happened before you came along that's made them hypersensitive about the situation and their response is disproportionate. So whenever somebody's response is disproportionate to the scenario, there's potentially a wound. Now I am personally of the opinion that, uh, for me personally, all the holistic kind of things don't necessarily work on me. I wouldn't really go do ayahuasca and I wouldn't really be able to just do a bunch of affirmations. For me personally, that doesn't work. I from, from my experience and personally, and I, I would love to hear what you, what you think as well, for me, the only way to outdo trauma is to make better decisions in life. Your trauma is kind of gonna be always leading you to self-destructive paths. It's always gonna lead you towards self-sabotage. Your trauma is going to teach you to live for today and not worry about tomorrow. It's gonna tell you to spend the money in the casino. It's gonna tell you to pay for that escort. It's gonna tell you to just, uh, just indulge. But when you stop and you think, start valuing yourself and making good, effective decisions, you're going to beat that trauma. That trauma is like a devil inside of you telling you to almost kill yourself, eh, through vices. But when you stop and you take control and you say, "I am going to make good decisions, I'm gonna take self-control," you defeat the trauma. All the other types of therapies in... For me personally, I, I, I really don't like to knock anything 'cause everybody's different. It doesn't work for me sitting in the mirror telling myself I'm amazing. It doesn't work. I can sit there and say, "You're gorgeous, you're beautiful." I'm never gonna believe that. But if I say, "Get to the gym, don't eat carbs, eh, for today, don't eat sugars after this time," e- I don't care what my trauma's telling me, I'll start to feel more beautiful. But telling myself affirmations, it doesn't work on me. What about for you? What works well for you?

   13. CWChris Williamson23:32

       Um, so I don't know with regards to the trauma thing, but certainly in terms of what makes me feel better, I have to change my mind with the body. So if I don't train-

   14. SKSadia Khan23:40

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson23:40

       ... if I don't get sunlight, if I don't move, if I get cold and hot within a day, I feel phenomenal. I went to a sauna and cold plunge place I love here in Austin called Kuya-

   16. SKSadia Khan23:49

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson23:49

       ... and, uh, took a bunch of friends from the UK there yesterday, and we did maybe two rounds of, of heat and cold. And you get out-

   18. SKSadia Khan23:55

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson23:55

       ... of the cold tub after wanting your life to end for quite a while. And one of the guys said-

   20. SKSadia Khan24:01

       (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson24:01

       ... "Dude, I challenge anybody that's having a bad day to do that and not feel amazing after you've finished." So for me-... changing the mind with the body is a good place to start. Trying to think your way out of overthinking is like trying to sniff your way out of a cocaine addiction.

   22. SKSadia Khan24:15

       (laughs) No.

   23. CWChris Williamson24:15

       It's just not, it's not going to make any difference.

   24. SKSadia Khan24:16

       It's, it's not gonna work, yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson24:18

       Yeah, exactly.

   26. SKSadia Khan24:18

       You're not gonna find the solution there. And there's lots of research to suggest that as well. People think they get a, an anxious thought, they start thinking their way out of it, and now they're trapped with their thoughts and traumas. The reality is, I, uh, uh, most research shows that it's actually in your body. The anxiety exists in your body. So by changing your bodily state rather than your mental state will actually help. So like you said, the, uh, the plunges and the... So you take like cold baths and stuff like that? Would that work?

   27. CWChris Williamson24:44

       Absolutely.

   28. SKSadia Khan24:44

       And it works?

   29. CWChris Williamson24:45

       Yeah, yeah. It does for me.

   30. SKSadia Khan24:45

       Incredible. Yeah.
7. 27:25 – 33:34

   How to Fix Someone’s Attachment

   1. SKSadia Khan27:25

   2. CWChris Williamson27:25

      When you're looking at trying to fix somebody's attachment, what are the places that you start at?

   3. SKSadia Khan27:31

      Um, the first thing I always ask them to remember is, "Your anxiety or your defense mechanism is not symbolic of love." What happens is people seem to think if they're preoccupied with someone and they're thinking about them all day every day and they're trying to control their behavior and they're watching them, "I must be in love. I can't stop thinking about this person. I know he's toxic, I know he's not good for me, but I can't stop thinking and watching when he's online." They mistake that preoccupation as love. They think, "I must be in love with that person," when really it's a signal. It's a signal to show that your trauma alarm has been activated. This person is not soothing you or you are finding the problems in this relationship. But either way, it's not a symbol, a symbol of love. It's a symbol that something's wrong. It's a signal that you haven't been able to soothe yourself or this relationship is not soothing. So we have to dissect which one it is. Is it the person or is it your own anxieties? So we start with their response. Or it could be a man that says, "She's really great, I love her, she's done nothing wrong, she's perfect, but I don't really care about her. I don't really like her. I don't know, I need space. She feel- I feel suffocated. But when she leaves, I really miss her and I always get her back. But when she's with me, I always end up texting other girls." That's still a d- a trauma response. There's a part of you that's craving distance but intimacy at the same time. So we look at it and we try and relabel the behavior. Because the avoidant will think, "I don't care," and the anxious will think, "I'm obsessed and I care too much." Both of them are defense mechanisms.

   4. CWChris Williamson29:00

      That dynamic of the guy with the girl, when he gets the girl, it's too suffocating, and when-

   5. SKSadia Khan29:06

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson29:06

      ... he's away from the girl, he's wistful and wishes that he could get her back-

   7. SKSadia Khan29:09

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson29:09

      ... is a dynamic that I have seen so, so many times.

   9. SKSadia Khan29:13

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson29:13

       Why is that so common? What is it that's going on inside of the male brain that's causing that?

   11. SKSadia Khan29:18

       Well, y- it would be, a lot of men think it's just the chase. They like the chase. And once they've got conquered, they no longer like the girl. There's an element of that and that does happen, but majority of the time, it's when the man had emotionally distant parents. When the parents didn't take the time to truly get to know them and be truly there for them in terms of their emotional needs. What happens is they assume nobody's gonna be there for their emotional needs. And the best way the ego defends itself is saying, "I don't need anybody to be there for my emotional needs. I don't need to talk about my feelings. I don't need to connect. I don't need someone in my space all the time." So they replace what they didn't get with-... what they don't want. And so when they meet somebody who's trying to emotionally connect with them, they label it as, "I don't need this. Go away. Leave me alone." And they'll distance themselves, distance, distance. But when she leaves, they're in pieces. So they obviously do need it. They just don't know how to navigate this need with alongside their trauma, so they end up pushing away the very people that they love and are trying to love them. And they attract clingy partners. What happens is the avoidant person always attracts the clingy because if a distant, im- uh, independent person met another distant independent woman, they don't have the glue to keep them together. So they also don't feel validated by somebody who doesn't care to see them. But when they meet that clingy partner, they get the validation that I'm loved, but then they don't have to put in the work because they know they'll, she'll love you and cling onto you regardless. So the clingy and the distant are always together.

   12. CWChris Williamson30:47

       One of the other common archetypes, I think, that I'm seeing at the moment are people who continue to crave validation even once they're in a relationship. This is facilitated by social media obviously.

   13. SKSadia Khan30:57

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson30:57

       The fact that you can get, um... Let's say that you have an argument with your partner and then you decide to post a thirst trap photo or you-

   15. SKSadia Khan31:05

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CWChris Williamson31:05

       ... decide to start following a bunch of different girls. Is it cheating?

   17. SKSadia Khan31:08

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson31:08

       Uh, well, we don't really have any rules around relationships to say... You know, if you went out and had sex with somebody, that's definitely cheating, but this is-

   19. SKSadia Khan31:15

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson31:15

       ... more kind of passive-aggressive, global-

   21. SKSadia Khan31:19

       (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson31:19

       ... "I'm just gonna do it. I've got an excuse. If they do bring it up, it's because of their insecurity."

   23. SKSadia Khan31:23

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson31:23

       "They almost deserve it because we just had this argument and it's kind of..." There's a lot more-

   25. SKSadia Khan31:27

       Mm-hmm.

   26. CWChris Williamson31:27

       ... degrees of freedom between in a relationship and out of a relationship, and everyone can fuck about in the middle section there.

   27. SKSadia Khan31:33

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson31:33

       What is it, or why does certain people crave this chaos within relationships and this sort of validation outside of them?

   29. SKSadia Khan31:43

       Because they've lost touch with themselves. And what I mean by this is if I've had a fight with my partner and my instinct is to go message another man, am I doing it because I want, like, this other man and I wanna speak to this other man, or am I just trying to even out the playing field of this fight? Am I just trying to even out the score? Now, when you're so in touch with yourself and you love yourself and you go... What happens when you love and trust yourself is you go by what you truly desire, you're not trying to win a game, what you truly desire. You don't post a picture online to get the, to get comments because you're not in the mood, you've just had a fight with your partner. But when you're playing a game, it's game on. "Every time you've annoyed me, game on." So when I speak to people and clients especially, they'll say, "Oh, you know, he's just been liking another girl." Or, "He hasn't called me in a couple of days. I'm gonna go see my ex." I'm like, "Uh, uh, uh, just stop. Do you want to see your ex or are you doing this because you're upset he hasn't called you? Because if you want to see your ex, go ahead and do it. But if you're doing it because he hasn't called you, you are not connected to yourself. You don't respect or love yourself. You don't know yourself. You are going by what he's making you feel, for... Take back the control. Go by what you want to do. And if you wanna see that ex 'cause you would do that even if y- this partner didn't annoy you, then listen to yourself. But if you, if it's purely to even out the score, I promise you you're gonna leave with shame and guilt. And shame and guilt are the two worst emotions a human being could feel because you direct that anger at yourself and it's, uh, uh, uh, it chips away at our self-respect." So, uh, that's why I think people turn to alternatives. They've lost touch with their authenticity.

   30. CWChris Williamson33:19

       Are you from a Muslim background?
8. 33:34 – 47:20

   The Demonisation of Femininity

   1. CWChris Williamson33:34

      terms of the values that you've been raised with-

   2. SKSadia Khan33:37

      Absolutely. Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson33:37

      ... what are your thoughts and what are your insights around this current trend of, um, applauding childlessness and demonization of motherhood that we're seeing coming from certain corners of women's advice at the moment?

   4. SKSadia Khan33:53

      It, it's, uh... Do you know what? I have to say it's so alien to me because when you are from my culture, our parents live for their kids. Uh, uh, uh, this is all we see. So what will happen, I remember when I used to go to school with, you know, my friends who were English and they'd say, "Oh, my mom and dad are going on holiday," or, "My mom and dad are going to restaurants." And I'm like, "My mom and dad don't go and do anything without us. They just literally, they, they just live for the kids and their money is saved for the kids' wedding days and everything is just like the kids, the kids, the kids." They, they center around, um, probably too much around the children. So my culture was always like, uh, life starts when you have kids. What are you gonna do other than that? That's what l- uh, life is about. And then growing up in an English world where it's slightly more, "Do what makes you happy. Do what hap- makes you happy," now I think the balance is do what gives you a purpose. Now, nothing gives you more of a purpose in life than when you have children because their sole existence, psychological and physical, depends on you. And I'm not saying do it because you want to, you know, feel loved or anything, but it's the only thing that will exist when you die. So when you don't have children, it's very difficult to see how all this loving memories and intelligence and experiences you've had and not be able to pass that onto somebody. Wouldn't you, if you've had a fulfilling life, want to then pass that legacy and keep yourself alive throughout the generations? And I think what's happened is we're so pleasure-seeking that we... The only thing that is guaranteed is death. And the only thing me and you both know is that we're going to have a funeral. Now, if on that funeral there are still remnants of you, that's a life that's a beautiful life, and it's going to continue forever. You don't truly die when you have kids. But when, on your funeral there's nobody but you s- got to travel 100 countries and you got to sleep with every man you wanted, that day is going to come for all of us. And that's the only day we're guaranteed. We prepare for it by leaving a legacy because that's what we're designed to do. So when we reject that, there must be some kind of trauma somewhere. And you know me, I think my answer to everything is always some kind of trauma. But I do think there's some kind of rejection to your true needs because we're designed to survive and reproduce. So if those things we're rejecting, there's some disconnect with your true needs.

   5. CWChris Williamson36:08

      I think what it shows is just how powerful culture can be. The fact that-

   6. SKSadia Khan36:11

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson36:11

      ... you're right, two things, right? Survival and reproduction.

   8. SKSadia Khan36:14

      Yeah.

   9. CWChris Williamson36:14

      Culture, as of yet, hasn't been able to step in and encourage people to throw themselves in front of open traffic.

   10. SKSadia Khan36:19

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson36:19

       But it has been able to step in and, uh, how would you say, like perturb someone's natural inclination toward having kids.

   12. SKSadia Khan36:27

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson36:27

       I think my current sort of viewpoint on it is that there's a lot of alternative things that people can do, uh, there is this-

   14. SKSadia Khan36:32

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson36:32

       ... slow life strategy, and it... The costs of having children are immediate and obvious.

   16. SKSadia Khan36:39

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson36:39

       It's going to stop you from traveling to Bali whenever you want.

   18. SKSadia Khan36:42

       Yeah.

   19. CWChris Williamson36:42

       It means that you're going to not be able to wear those cute heels that you intended on wearing.

   20. SKSadia Khan36:47

       (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson36:47

       It means that you're maybe gonna get stretch marks, and maybe you're gonna have to, your body's gonna gain weight, and maybe blah, blah, blah.

   22. SKSadia Khan36:53

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson36:53

       So all of the costs are upfront, and all of the benefits are kind of down the line. And even mothers in the moment, their moment-to-moment experience of the life isn't that pleasurable, but it's-

   24. SKSadia Khan37:03

       Mm-mm.

   25. CWChris Williamson37:03

       ... very meaningful. And in a-

   26. SKSadia Khan37:04

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson37:05

       ... society and a culture that optimizes pleasure-

   28. SKSadia Khan37:08

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson37:09

       ... above everything else, individualistic, atomized, compartmentalized, hedonic maximization-

   30. SKSadia Khan37:16

       Mm-hmm.
9. 47:20 – 54:10

   Principles for a Healthy Man

   1. CWChris Williamson47:20

   2. SKSadia Khan47:20

      I'm sorry?

   3. CWChris Williamson47:21

      Do the equivalent that you've just run through there, but for men, the authenticity side.

   4. SKSadia Khan47:26

      I would say similar to the, uh, I would say the same thing for men. I think if you want strong psychological health, slightly different what I would say for men. The key for a man is self-control. For women, it's authenticity. You have to stay authentic as possible because our body t- tells us so much. Our body will tell you when you're craving a child, when you're getting angry, uh, when you're getting hostile because our hormones are all over the place. For a man, your body sometimes speaks against you. It will crave, you know, pleasure all the time. Your key to successful mental health is complete and utter self-control in terms of your mind, body, and soul. You control what you consume. You don't watch everything. You don't go into every d- uh, desire. You control who you put yourself into. You don't go and sleep with every single one and everyone anywhere. You actually gain far more self-esteem when you reject women than when you g- when you accept women. There is, that man that has, uh, women that he's rejecting feels far greater than that man who can't say no to anybody because he's jumping at the opportunities. Self-control even with what you eat. When I have clients that come to me and they've got a bit of depression, I don't, I s- I, I say to them, "Until you go to the gym and until you lose weight, there's no conversation that me and you can have that will change your self-esteem." It won't do it because me and you can have a great conversation, but when you go and take a shower or when you go and get undressed in front of a woman, everything I've said to you won't mean anything. So self-control with what you eat. Go work out. D- Don't have to have a six-pack, but self-control. Now, when a man practices self-control, he becomes such an unshakable being because no, none of his friends can make him drink alcohol if he doesn't want it. No woman can g- make him spend money on her if she, he doesn't want to. No gambling machine can make him waste money if he doesn't want to. He becomes, uh, i- indispensable as a man. So self-control, I really believe, is the root of a man's self-esteem.

   5. CWChris Williamson49:18

      I think one of the interesting circles that's difficult to square in some of the corners of men's advice at the moment is that self-control and self-mastery are a big deal, that you should train hard-

   6. SKSadia Khan49:30

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson49:30

      ... you should be disciplined, you should get up on time, do your cold plunge and your sauna and your gym workout and work on your business and read and be able to quote Marcus Aurelius. But as soon as you have a plethora of women that are in front of you, you should sleep-

   8. SKSadia Khan49:45

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson49:45

      ... with as many as you want. So self-control-

   10. SKSadia Khan49:47

       Interesting, right?

   11. CWChris Williamson49:47

       ... and self-mastery stop at the boundaries of the penis, which-

   12. SKSadia Khan49:50

       (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson49:51

       ... is a- a- an odd sense of hypocrisy.

   14. SKSadia Khan49:54

       The most dangerous place to stop because children, keyword. The most dangerous place to stop your self-control is d- is your penis, because your penis is responsible for life. Now, if you don't master self-control when it comes to who you're having sex with, you are now in a... We're living in a times where pregnancies, everything favors women. You get the wrong woman pregnant, for the rest of your life, you are tied to this woman and you can go to jail for not paying child support for a woman who might even be lying, who might not even... You might not even be the father of her child. That's what a risk having sex with low quality or low quality people means. You risk the rest of your life. It's a death sentence if you get the wrong person pregnant. And even if you don't, I always say it lowers your standards. You can't be doing that. So, this is what I don't understand a lot about the masculine kind of frame, especially online dating for the younger generation. They teach men to just have no discipline when it comes to sexual behaviors. What do you think about that?

   15. CWChris Williamson50:53

       I think it is-

   16. SKSadia Khan50:54

       You're a man, so I'm asking you because I... Maybe it's something I'll never understand.

   17. CWChris Williamson50:58

       I'm not sure. I th- I think that there is so much status assigned to being attractive and being chosen by women.

   18. SKSadia Khan51:07

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson51:07

       And, you know, everything else that you do is a proxy for that in any case. Maybe some of it is to do with survival, but the nice car-

   20. SKSadia Khan51:14

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson51:14

       ... and the fancy watch and the red bottom Louboutins and-

   22. SKSadia Khan51:17

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson51:17

       ... the follower count on Instagram and the blue tick and all of that stuff, they are all proxies for, "Look at my mate value go up." Right?

   24. SKSadia Khan51:25

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson51:26

       And the most direct way that you can prove to yourself that your mate value is high and you can prove to everybody around you that your mate value is high is to sleep with women. And, you know, I've worked in the nightlife industry for 15 years.

   26. SKSadia Khan51:37

       Oh, yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson51:37

       So I saw this firsthand. I was in the trenches of- of all of this stuff that was going on.

   28. SKSadia Khan51:41

       (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson51:41

       This is the- the currency-

   30. SKSadia Khan51:43

       Yeah.
10. 54:10 – 1:03:27

    The Unique Dating Scene of Dubai

    1. SKSadia Khan54:10

    2. CWChris Williamson54:10

       ... and for the values that have been coming out of that. What are or what is unique about the dating scene in Dubai? Let's say that there's someone listening who's never been. All that they know about Dubai-

    3. SKSadia Khan54:20

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson54:20

       ... is what they've seen on a couple of TikTok videos. What's-

    5. SKSadia Khan54:23

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson54:24

       ... interesting or different about the dating scene out there?

    7. SKSadia Khan54:26

       I would say Dubai is not very representative of the Middle East, and it's got a completely different culture to, uh, like Muslim values and culture in general. The reason being is, it is a playground for the rich and beautiful. The entire city is Beverly Hills. So what happens is, the richest men in the world flock to Dubai. It's got amazing perks if you want to make a lot of money. It's just, it's where it is. Um, and any city where there's rich men, there are beautiful women. I- I- it's just always the case. Wherever there's rich men, there's beautiful women. So the playground is completely different. It really separates the men from the boys, both men and women. So what happens is a woman has to really feel like everybody's her competition. So if she hasn't worked on anything besides her looks, she's going to find it's very... It's, um, it's a difficult place to meet people because if you think you're the prettiest girl in the room, there'll be another pretty girl, there'll be another pretty girl. So it's hard for her to stand out. And for the rich guy, if he leads with money, he will learn that's not enough for the women out here, because she knows a hundred millionaires. So what happens is both these people who brought their kind of, their- their trophies to come to Dubai, the beautiful girl and the rich man, realize that here it's a dime a dozen. So, it- you have to bring something else to the table. But the problem is the culture and the environment is so distracting, it's difficult for c- partnerships to connect and last a really long time, even though everybody's craving it. Most people here are expats. They haven't got their mom and dad and cousins and family, so they're craving a sense of home, but because it feels like it's so f- like far-fetched, like the ego defenses come in and they just think, "Well, I might as well..."... just play in the mud while I'm here. So it's slightly different to the rest of the Middle East, I would say.

    8. CWChris Williamson56:11

       Do more options mean more happiness?

    9. SKSadia Khan56:13

       It's the exact opposite. More options means less happiness. They've done so many studies where they looked at people's reactions to food in a food court compared to a home-cooked meal, or, um, even paintings where they had lots of choices or just given one. There's always higher satisfaction when there's no alternatives because your brain then doesn't imagine alternatives. But our brain has this ability where it can literally s- experience what we imagine. If I say to you, "Imagine ketchup on ice cream," you can almost taste that. You can almost taste that. If you think about it enough, you can taste it. When you have alternatives, imagining the alternative is enough for you to start a desire there. And when you don't have alternatives, you kind of stay focused. But when you do have alternatives, it means the satisfaction is reversed.

    10. CWChris Williamson57:01

        So in a place like Dubai that is swimming with lots of people-

    11. SKSadia Khan57:05

        All the time.

    12. CWChris Williamson57:05

        ... with lots of money and lots of women filled with lots of silicon, there are a lot of distractions?

    13. SKSadia Khan57:09

        Yes. Uh, uh, e- endless distractions. Uh, e- uh, even if it's not the women, it's the environment. Restaurants are fantastic, the, um, bars and clubs and stuff to do. The beaches are amazing. The water will dance for you. You sit and have dinner, and the water fountains will go up. There is just such a, uh, in, uh, uh, so much pleasure everywhere. I mean, it really suits me well because I am quite e- extrovert, and I- I would never say it in a bad way. For me, it works well, but for anybody who craves more of a calm, peaceful environment, I don't know how conducive a city like this would be.

    14. CWChris Williamson57:42

        I think that you're right. I, um, I wonder about what the Muslim community thinks of the recent trend of white Western guys saying that they're going to convert, that they're now going to follow. Has this been-

    15. SKSadia Khan57:59

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CWChris Williamson57:59

        ... a conversation that you've had with your dad or anybody from your-

    17. SKSadia Khan58:01

        Yeah. Do you know what? There, it is becoming common. I do think Andrew has a, a part to play in that. I think Andrew, uh, has had a part to play in it, and I think in general, it's, um... I think what's happened is the left has become so loud that people are s- seeking conservatism again. And I think the, the, because Dubai has become popular and the idea of the whole gender debate and women becoming so promiscuous, now people are thinking, "I need, I need a solution. I need a fix." And so they're going-

    18. CWChris Williamson58:32

        Fuck me. If you're looking for not-promiscuous women, Dubai is not necessarily the place to go.

    19. SKSadia Khan58:36

        Oh, my G- it's like-

    20. CWChris Williamson58:36

        And if you're looking for a real representation of Islam, Dubai is also not the place to go.

    21. SKSadia Khan58:42

        The last place to go, I would say. If you're looking for a non-promiscuous woman, there is nowhere, uh, um, there's nowhere worse than Dubai because of promiscuity in Dubai amongst men and women. But like I always say, it's the only city in the world where the women are far more promiscuous than the men. Far more. Because what's happened to the women in... I don't want to say too much, but what's happened to the women that come to rich cities is they come emotionally detached. They come with the idea that, "I wanna meet a rich man." Now, that woman is completely different to the woman that comes to a city and says, "I wanna fall in love and have kids." Now, that emotionally detached woman who comes, "I want a good life," is never emotionally invested. And here's the mistake a lot of rich men make. They seem to think that if they can support a girl and give her a good life, loyalty is a given. But what they're forgetting is a woman that craves a good life doesn't seek emotional intimacy. She seeks financial intimacy. Now, any woman who doesn't seek emotional intimacy is far more likely to stray. So they're the most likely to be cheated on, is these men that spoil their women.

    22. CWChris Williamson59:47

        Yeah.

    23. SKSadia Khan59:47

        Because loyal women want to be spoiled by time. They don't wanna be spoiled by possessions. And a lot of these successful men don't have time, so they naturally filter out loyal women and get the ones that are okay with a financial investment.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:00:01

        That's, again, another difficult sort of hypocrisy or, or tough circle to square from men's advice around the, you know, looking for emotional intimacy is simping for women, but paying them in gifts and flying them all over the world is somehow being high value.

    25. SKSadia Khan1:00:15

        Yeah.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:00:15

        The problem, the problem with that is that you are making an incredibly fragile foundation upon which to build that relationship.

    27. SKSadia Khan1:00:22

        Yeah.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:00:22

        Now, the cope from that going one order down is, "Well, it doesn't matter. I'm not bothered about building a relationship because you use them and, uh, like, discard them. We'll just get onto the next one," and you go, "Okay, well, in that case, we're not really talking about the same thing." One person is having-

    29. SKSadia Khan1:00:38

        Hmm.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:00:38

        ... a discussion about how to sleep with lots of women and use their air miles as much as they can, and another person-
11. 1:03:27 – 1:05:17

    What Sadia is Looking Forward to

    1. CWChris Williamson1:03:27

       next couple of months? What's the impact that you want to have?

    2. SKSadia Khan1:03:30

       Um, I think what I would love to focus a little bit more on is the impact of, uh, pornography on men. I think pornography has had a, a, a huge impact on men and women. And I would love to kind of focus ... If I could have one mission in this whole kind of social media space, it would be to draw light to the impact of pornography on men's mental health. Because what pornography does is it teaches men women are wild and are promiscuous. So in the real world, they look for wild and promiscuous women without realizing that wild and promiscuous woman then breaks their boundaries and hurts them, and they end up in a slow suicide in the form of depression. And they don't realize that it's all connected. Whereas if they stopped sexualizing women so much through the use of pornography, they would have higher standards of what they accept and want in a woman, and then they could maintain a relationship better. And then that depression would slowly disappear. But I think pornography is kind of where I would love to focus on. Um, and also just kind of undoing some of the damage from the red pill conversation-

    3. CWChris Williamson1:04:36

       How do you mean?

    4. SKSadia Khan1:04:36

       ... is another. I feel like it's done the exact terrible impact that feminism had at women's belief about men. Red pill kind of did the exact same for men. It gave them a home. Uh, for the men that hate women, it gave them a home, but it's in the wrong hands. It's okay when it's in the hands of psychologists and people who understand human nature, but when it's in the hands of a 27-year-old boy who just wants to make it w- in, uh, social media or somebody whose life experience is just making TikToks and he's the one teaching men how to, um, how to view women, it's dangerous. It's super, super dangerous. So I would love to undo the damage of some of that.

12. 1:05:17 – 1:05:57

    Where to Find Sadia

    1. CWChris Williamson1:05:17

       Where should people go if they want to check out more of the stuff that they do?

    2. SKSadia Khan1:05:21

       Uh, of what they do or what-

    3. CWChris Williamson1:05:23

       What you do.

    4. SKSadia Khan1:05:24

       Oh, what I do. Sorry. I am Saadia Psychology on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. Saadia Psychology. I tend to put everything up on using the same handle. So if you do want to find more, and yeah, I also do one-to-ones. If you do want any kind of, um, one-to-one coaching, I am available.

    5. CWChris Williamson1:05:38

       Saadia, I really appreciate you. Thank you.

    6. SKSadia Khan1:05:40

       Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

    7. CWChris Williamson1:05:42

       What's happening, people? Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks. And don't forget to subscribe. Peace.

Episode duration: 1:05:57