How to Defeat Your Stress, Anxiety & Inaction - Mel Robbins

1. 0:00 – 7:03

   Why Is Everyone So Stressed Out?

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Yeah, so Keynesian Beauty Contest.

   2. MRMel Robbins0:01

      Yes.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:02

      Um, people are asked to rank-

   4. MRMel Robbins0:04

      Yes.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:04

      ... who is the most beautiful.

   6. MRMel Robbins0:05

      Yes.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:06

      But they're also then asked to rank who they think other people think-

   8. MRMel Robbins0:09

      Yes.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:09

      ... is the most beautiful.

   10. MRMel Robbins0:09

       Yes. And then, is that also the thing where you're then told that the stuff is screwed up and you're seeing the data and then you come back and you rank the same people differently 'cause you were shown how other people rank them?

   11. CWChris Williamson0:19

       Oh, maybe. There might be a twist on it.

   12. MRMel Robbins0:22

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson0:22

       So this guy's actually done it, but he's done it for real life.

   14. MRMel Robbins0:24

       So, so he basically has the most incredible data set that shows that people agree on 88% of the things that are important in life. Now, we may disagree on policy and how to get there.

   15. CWChris Williamson0:39

       Mm.

   16. MRMel Robbins0:39

       But people want exactly the same things. And right now, we're in this massive moment of collective self-silencing.

   17. CWChris Williamson0:46

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MRMel Robbins0:47

       And part of the reason why... And it's super fascinating when he talks about the brain, since we're so wired for connection and social rejection feels like pain.

   19. CWChris Williamson0:53

       Mm-hmm.

   20. MRMel Robbins0:54

       That when you see that... I, I don't know what the stats are today 'cause it's an old study, but you're probably familiar with that study, uh, that looked at Twitter and how, I think it was like 80% or 90% of the content came from 10% of the accounts.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:07

       Mm-hmm.

   22. MRMel Robbins1:08

       And right now, if you look at what's going on in social, the 5% of the most extreme voices on both sides dominate 90% of the conversation.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:17

       Mm.

   24. MRMel Robbins1:17

       And everybody else is sort of in the middle going, "Can my fucking parents just stop screaming at each other?"

   25. CWChris Williamson1:27

       (laughs)

   26. MRMel Robbins1:27

       And everybody is self-silencing because nobody wants to get into it with anybody and we are under the collective illusion that because you're not saying something, you agree with what's happening.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:39

       Mm-hmm.

   28. MRMel Robbins1:40

       And his data is so important and so hopeful and meaningful.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:45

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MRMel Robbins1:46

       And then he has this incredible historical, uh, example about the Velvet Revolution that happened, which was the revolution that happened, I believe, in the '80s. It's the only time a communist government was overthrown without a single bullet being fired or a single person dying.
2. 7:03 – 19:50

   The Triggers Fuelling Our Anxiety

   1. MRMel Robbins7:03

   2. CWChris Williamson7:04

      90% of anxiety is anticipatory. Not about events, but about control over them.

   3. MRMel Robbins7:09

      Uh-huh.

   4. CWChris Williamson7:09

      And this link between uncertainty and anxiety being, uh, intrinsically related-

   5. MRMel Robbins7:15

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson7:15

      ... is so true. There's this wonderful idea called compensatory control.

   7. MRMel Robbins7:18

      What is it called?

   8. CWChris Williamson7:19

      Compensatory control.

   9. MRMel Robbins7:20

      Compensatory- (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson7:22

       Control.

   11. MRMel Robbins7:23

       (laughs) Compensatory control.

   12. CWChris Williamson7:24

       Look, I'm, I'm gonna speak in a language that you may not be familiar with-

   13. MRMel Robbins7:27

       Mm-hmm.

   14. CWChris Williamson7:28

       ... British. Um-

   15. MRMel Robbins7:29

       My husband went to high school in Britain.

   16. CWChris Williamson7:30

       Okay, good. Did he retain-

   17. MRMel Robbins7:32

       Lots of British I just don't understand the big words. Compensatory control?

   18. CWChris Williamson7:35

       Yeah, to compensate.

   19. MRMel Robbins7:36

       Oh, compensate, okay, gotcha.

   20. CWChris Williamson7:37

       Yeah. Compensatory control.

   21. MRMel Robbins7:38

       Okay, gotcha.

   22. CWChris Williamson7:39

       So, um, when people were m- uh, told to imagine an uncertain medical diagnosis-

   23. MRMel Robbins7:45

       Okay.

   24. CWChris Williamson7:45

       ... they were more likely to see patterns in meaningless static on a TV.

   25. MRMel Robbins7:51

       Really?

   26. CWChris Williamson7:51

       So basically, if you have a sense of threat coming from the outside-

   27. MRMel Robbins7:55

       Uh-huh.

   28. CWChris Williamson7:56

       ... if you feel like control and uncertainty are very common in your life, you are more likely to construct narratives and, uh, personify and create archetype and myth and believe in conspiracy, uh-

   29. MRMel Robbins8:08

       Oh, really? Wow.

   30. CWChris Williamson8:08

       ... and attach meaning where it's not there. This is from Matthew Syed. It was in The Times forever ago. It was actually around COVID. Uh, and he basically made this point that, um, this is before lab leak hypothesis stuff was, uh, you know, supported or disproven or anything. It was just a notion-
3. 19:50 – 34:25

   How To Be Okay with Uncertainty

   1. CWChris Williamson19:51

      You know what my favorite definition of safety is?

   2. MRMel Robbins19:53

      No. What is it?

   3. CWChris Williamson19:56

      You will be okay no matter what happens.

   4. MRMel Robbins19:58

      Mm.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:58

      It's the difference between, uh, safety, I never have to face anything-

   6. MRMel Robbins20:04

      I love that. I love that.

   7. CWChris Williamson20:06

      I never have to, uh, be in an unsafe situation. No, th- those are gonna come. Yeah, and, and some of these things are actually going to be outside-

   8. MRMel Robbins20:14

      Love that.

   9. CWChris Williamson20:15

      ... of your existing experience. The, the territory that you've mapped in the past-

   10. MRMel Robbins20:19

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson20:20

       ... is not going to contain how much shit you need to eat today. You're going to eat more shit than you have ever eaten before in your life and that is going to continue to happen, and you will be okay no matter what happens. Now, the reason I love that sentence as well is, uh, "I will be okay no matter what happens-"

   12. MRMel Robbins20:38

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson20:38

       ... can be truncated down, "I will be okay no matter what, I will be okay no matter, and I will be okay. I will be okay no matter what happens." And I love that-

   14. MRMel Robbins20:47

       Is that the title of your next book? It should be.

   15. CWChris Williamson20:48

       (laughs) Maybe.

   16. MRMel Robbins20:49

       It should be.

   17. CWChris Williamson20:50

       Let me tell you. It was, um, I did a, a retreat with a guy called Joe Hudson, he's Sam Altman's coach, he is the head of human performance at OpenAI. He is, many people have the word coach, right?

   18. MRMel Robbins21:01

       Uh-huh.

   19. CWChris Williamson21:01

       And it's a term which is laden with all kinds of ick and slime and barnacles and stuff. Um, he, Dr. K, Healthy Gamer-

   20. MRMel Robbins21:10

       Love him.

   21. CWChris Williamson21:10

       Um, those are two, there's maybe more, but those are two that come to mind of people who actually deserve the title of master coach. Anyway, I did a, a retreat with him in Sonoma County, 12 hours a day, seven days, deep emotional work, all sober.

   22. MRMel Robbins21:25

       Just alone?

   23. CWChris Williamson21:26

       Uh, me and 11 other people.

   24. MRMel Robbins21:28

       Was it all dudes?

   25. CWChris Williamson21:29

       Uh, no. No. Half and half.

   26. MRMel Robbins21:31

       Okay.

   27. CWChris Williamson21:31

       Um-

   28. MRMel Robbins21:32

       And did you know everybody going in?

   29. CWChris Williamson21:33

       No. No one knew anyone. A few people knew, uh, me and my work.

   30. MRMel Robbins21:37

       Uh-huh.
4. 34:25 – 46:15

   How to Tap into Your Instincts More

   1. CWChris Williamson34:25

      Everyone's growth germinates from their lowest points.

   2. MRMel Robbins34:28

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson34:29

      Uh, there's this quote from Freud where he says, "In retrospect, the struggle will strike you as most beautiful." I think that's- that's a- a-

   4. MRMel Robbins34:36

      Only when you're through it. (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson34:38

      Well, in retrospect, right?

   6. MRMel Robbins34:39

      Yes. (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson34:39

      "The struggle will strike you as most beautiful."

   8. MRMel Robbins34:41

      Uh-huh.

   9. CWChris Williamson34:41

      Do you know what the region beta paradox is? Region beta, you would call it?

   10. MRMel Robbins34:44

       No.

   11. CWChris Williamson34:44

       Okay, um, so it is... Imagine that if you were going to travel a mile or less, you would walk it.

   12. MRMel Robbins34:50

       Okay.

   13. CWChris Williamson34:51

       And if you're going to travel more than a mile, you would drive it.

   14. MRMel Robbins34:53

       Okay.

   15. CWChris Williamson34:53

       Paradoxically, you would go two miles quicker than you would go one mile.

   16. MRMel Robbins34:57

       I would go two miles quicker than I would go one mile.

   17. CWChris Williamson35:00

       Less than a mile, you would walk it.

   18. MRMel Robbins35:01

       Yes.

   19. CWChris Williamson35:02

       More than a mile, you would drive it.

   20. MRMel Robbins35:03

       Yes. Okay, got it.

   21. CWChris Williamson35:04

       You would go a further distance quicker because of the solution that you chose.

   22. MRMel Robbins35:08

       Yes.

   23. CWChris Williamson35:08

       What this suggests is that if we only act when things cross a certain threshold of badness, worse things can be better than better things. So, uh, the person who stays in a relationship, "It's not that loving, but you know, they're not abusive and everything's kind of comfortable, but I don't really know if I see a future with this person," or-

   24. MRMel Robbins35:25

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson35:25

       ... the person that stays in a career, "Well, I'm not that fired up by it and it doesn't pay very well, but my boss is kind of cool and I like the people that I work with," or the person who lives in an apartment downtown and there's some- maybe some mold on the ceiling and, "I don't really think that the people next door are that safe, but it's not very expensive and it's in a great location." All of these people would be better off if their situations were worse, because it would galvanize them to actually go and do something. And this, uh, zone of comfortable complacency, right? Where you get comfortably numb, velvet prison, whatever it might be, um, reminds us that sometimes worse situations can be better than better situations because it kicks you back out of the bottom.

   26. MRMel Robbins36:03

       Sometimes, yes.

   27. CWChris Williamson36:04

       And, uh, yeah, sometimes. I did get asked a question about this at one of the live shows, and somebody said, um, "I feel like I'm stuck in region beta. Should I purposefully make my life worse so that I, uh, I get kicked out of the bottom?" And I was like, "That's a high-risk strategy to actively sort of kamikaze your own life in an attempt-"

   28. MRMel Robbins36:21

       Well, can we just stop and just consider even the question?

   29. CWChris Williamson36:24

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MRMel Robbins36:25

       I actively know...... that I'm not in a place I wanna be. And I am so scared to make the change that I'm even considering allowing things to get worse before they get better. And that moment of self-awareness is so important, because before you hit that rock bottom moment where you're just so sick of your own self that it's more painful to stay where you are than to do the things that you've been avoiding, whether it's break off the relationship or finally post your first YouTube video or quit the job or make a goddamn budget and understand that the reason why you're dead broke is because you're spending more than you earn, like those moments of honesty, you have had them probably a thousand times before you actually make the decision that enough is enough. And so I find it fascinating because there's awareness in the question that you are not where you want to be, that your life does not feel like you want it to feel, and here you are asking at a live event whether or not I should make it worse when you could make the decision to change now. And I don't judge you for that. I think it's a very important thing, because when somebody says, you know, "I always am dating the wrong people. You know, I should have broken up six months ago," you knew six months ago. The issue isn't that you don't know. The issue is you can't trust your own instincts because you don't listen to them. And that was my problem for a long time too.
5. 46:15 – 56:11

   The Real Story Behind Mel’s Success

   1. MRMel Robbins46:15

   2. CWChris Williamson46:15

      Do you think you're a surprising person to have become a success?

   3. MRMel Robbins46:18

      No.

   4. CWChris Williamson46:20

      I- if you were to lay out the challenges that you're facing there, "I struggle to sit down, I struggle to focus, I'm distracted by the clock or the person rustling their crisp packets-"

   5. MRMel Robbins46:29

      (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson46:29

      "... three tables across from me."

   7. MRMel Robbins46:31

      Oh my God. Drive me crazy.

   8. CWChris Williamson46:32

      Whatever. Yeah. I remember I once, uh, didn't sleep the night before an accounting exam in university because there was a drip. I was in the attic room of this house that we were living in in Newcastle, Northeast of the UK, and there was a drip, but it was sufficiently intermittent that I couldn't predict when it was next going to come. Um, my point is, it seems to me like if you were to lay out the, uh, fundamentals-

   9. MRMel Robbins46:58

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CWChris Williamson46:58

       ... of the person that is Mel Robbins, might not be super predictive of someone that would go on to write a book, which requires a lot of focus and to sit down and, and to build businesses and talk on stage-

   11. MRMel Robbins47:12

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson47:12

       ... dealing with the anxiety, the uncertainty-

   13. MRMel Robbins47:14

       Yep.

   14. CWChris Williamson47:14

       ... the adrenaline, the focus that's required, the executive function to be able to be... I mean, you are here a little bit late, but you were here, y- r- remotely on time.

   15. MRMel Robbins47:22

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson47:23

       Um, that seems to me like, uh, the person and the outcomes, uh, might not be super predictive.

   17. MRMel Robbins47:33

       I agree. I agree.

   18. CWChris Williamson47:35

       So-

   19. MRMel Robbins47:35

       And actually, if you look at the trajectory of people that are having a lot of problems in life, there tends to be a pretty high correlation with neurodivergent issues or learning style issues. And you can get labeled a problem, and then the settings in your mind change, and because the teachers around you or the school system or, like, whatever, you do not feel understood, you can start to opt out of your potential, and I don't believe that's your fault. I believe that gets conditioned in people. And there's people who also have the ability to adapt. You know, one of my favorite things that's ever been written about dyslexia is a chapter in Malcolm Gladwell's book, David and Goliath. And I believe the title of it is Would You Give Your Kid Dyslexia?And it is an extraordinary, like, research-based chapter about what happens to people that are in classrooms and you get labeled a problem, and that there are some people that also adapt because if you can't read and write because the wiring from your brain is not going down your hand and get... Like, my son's handwriting still looks like he's writing with his feet. And I can't write as fast as my mind works. So, you talk about writing books, I dictate everything, and then I can edit it. And so, I became very verbal because what you realize is that if I get my hand up first, I can say something proactively and then I won't get called on and b- put on the spot.

   20. CWChris Williamson49:28

       Right, okay. If it's on your terms.

   21. MRMel Robbins49:30

       Yes.

   22. CWChris Williamson49:30

       This is just reducing down the uncertainty again as well.

   23. MRMel Robbins49:33

       Yes, yes. And you know, the other thing is, is that so much of my success was due to negative motivation. I mean, when you're $800,000 in debt and you have three kids under the age of 10 and the restaurant business that your husband has gone into, which you have secured with your life savings and your house and multiple credit cards and a home equity line and you then lose your job and you have friends that have invested and you start to realize that nobody's gonna come and pay these bills for you, and I don't think Chris is gonna figure this out. Like, I think one of the hardest moments of my marriage is where Chris said, "I, you don't believe in me." I said, "I don't. I don't think you're gonna figure this out." And I became highly driven because I didn't wanna lose my house. I became highly driven because there were six months of bills that were stacked up on the counter that I hadn't opened. I became highly driven because I was tired of going to the grocery store and knowing that there was no money in my checking account and hoping that the, like, wiring gods would let the credit cards slip through. "Would you like to do debit or credit?" "Credit." (whispers) MasterCard, Visa card. And then it would swipe and I had the whole response rehearsed. I'd cock my head and be like, "Oh, well that's weird. It just worked at the gas station. Let me go out to the car, I've got some other... Come on, kids." And then you don't come back in. And when you reach a point in your life where you have that reckoning, that if you want your life to turn around, it's your job to do it. If you want to pay off your bills, it's your job to do it. If you want to change where you're at in life, it is your job to change it. And I had wasted way too much time blaming Chris or thinking life was unfair, and it was unfair, or beating myself up about h- the stupid decisions that we had both made, feeling shitty about myself because I couldn't get out of bed or I knew I was isolating, I was letting my health go, I was drinking too much. Like, I was in that self-sabotaging loop for years. And then finally, it's like, okay and? And? Okay, you can continue to lay in bed and rot away. You can continue to beat the shit out of yourself. You can continue to tell yourself that it's too late, you screwed up, you're never gonna get out of debt, you're never gonna figure this out, you're 41, your career is over, you know, you're gonna have to get rid of this. Like, you can do all that, Mel. Or you can change. Like, if you wanna, if you want things in your life to get better, prove it. And the person you're proving it to is yourself. And so for me, it was the pain of the situation that we were in, and it was the truth that it, I didn't believe that Chris would fix it. And that was a very hard thing to say, but it was the truth. And if I wanted it to be fixed, I needed to shut up and do something. And that was the moment, for me, that moment of just desperation and honesty with self that started to change everything. And you know, when, when... Everybody always asks, you know, "How did you become Mel Robbins?" I'm like, "16 years of boring, grueling ass work. That's how you become the person you wanna be." If you're not willing to do it for 10 years, don't even bother, 'cause that's how long it takes. There is no shortcut. There is no secret. There's no, like, fast thing I can give you. I can tell you that if you don't like where your life is right now or what it feels like, that's all you need to change. If you don't like some aspect of your life, my job just doesn't feel the way I want it to feel anymore, this relationship doesn't feel the way I want it to. Okay, great. You can change anything from that moment of honesty with yourself. That's what it takes. Your life changes with one decision because the decision points you in a different direction. Now, the results, I think people misunderstand consistency. Consistency is making the decision over and over, and the results show up over time. And they show up way further down the road than you think. And so for me, you know, there's no magic trick. I just found simple and sometimes dumb tools that helped me push through my own excuses so I could take the actions that I needed to take...... even when I didn't feel like it, and that's the secret. Uh, I wa- I wasted too much of my life waiting to feel motivated, waiting to feel ready. Motivation's complete garbage. It's never there. It's never there when you n- This is Dr. K's research. Your brain is not wired to do shit that's easy. If it were, we'd all have a million dollars and six-pack abs and the most fabulous marriage. That's not w- what life. Your brain is wired to move toward what feels good and away from what feels bad, and change feels horrible.

   24. CWChris Williamson55:09

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6. 56:11 – 1:08:14

   Choosing Acceptance and Compassion Over Criticism

   1. CWChris Williamson56:11

      What have you learned about self-compassion? Because in this, I can imagine an awful lot of self-castigation.

   2. MRMel Robbins56:18

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson56:19

      What have you learned about self-compassion?

   4. MRMel Robbins56:20

      That I would've probably had results faster if I had not been so hard on myself. It is very difficult to be motivated when, in terms of, like, continuing to keep going and the intrinsic motivation because you start to feel good that you're acting like the person that you want to be, when you have a chip on your shoulder and you're constantly, "Well, okay, but you coulda done this. Oh, okay, great that you're working two jobs, but you better get a third." And the power, it sounds so cheesy, but the power of learning how to change the settings in your mind so that you 10X on the things that are going well and you call out, "Good job on that. Good job on that. I'm proud of you for getting two jobs. You're d- you're doing enough today. Like, you're doing a lot actually." There's something about shifting that tough love mentality with yourself once you kind of have that first breakthrough and becoming more of an encourager. And I think this is true about business too. You know, if you, if you are a person that wants to be a great leader, stop focusing on the things that are going wrong and triple down on what you see people doing well. Because when you triple down and you call out... 'Cause you don't realize, people do, like, 100 things great every day. But we personally hyperfixate on the one thing that didn't go well as if it's the only thing that you did today, and you forget, "You answered 73 emails. Great job! You showed up for those seven Zoom meetings that were a waste of your time. Great job! You were kind to the person that was having a really hard day. Good job. You managed your energy well. And instead of coming home and just dumping your stress on everybody and then blaming work for it, treating the people that you care the most the worst, you checked yourself at the door. Good job. Yeah, you might not have gotten that thing, you may have, like, had a lousy tone of voice with that person, but you, you apologized pretty quickly. Good job." Like, when you can start to notice the things you're doing well, it creates this unbelievable sense of momentum inside of you because you're not kinda like... Self-criticism is like this roadblock where you stop your own, like, momentum. Have you ever been in a meeting where, you know, you're brainstorming with people and it's, like, in a flow and there's one person that's like, "Well..." And you're like, "Wha- Dude, like, read the room." And tha- that was a huge revelation to me, and it's- it's a huge part of my philosophy in terms of the way that I lead.

   5. CWChris Williamson59:27

      Yes and as opposed to no but-

   6. MRMel Robbins59:30

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson59:30

      ... 'cause the no but feels like it's slowing everything down. So what I'm, what I'm interested in is trying to square all of the different circles that we've got going on here.

   8. MRMel Robbins59:39

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson59:39

      So on one hand, we have a lot of autonomy, intentionality, a kind of ruthlessness with decision-making-

   10. MRMel Robbins59:49

       Yes.

   11. CWChris Williamson59:49

       ... a bias for action.

   12. MRMel Robbins59:50

       Yes.

   13. CWChris Williamson59:51

       Um, on the other, we have, uh, a focus on what's going well, not what's going wrong.

   14. MRMel Robbins59:57

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson59:58

       We have a, uh, degree of understanding, uh, and acceptance of where you have fallen short and where other people fall short too, so self-oriented perfectionism is reduced, other-oriented perfectionism is also reduced.

   16. MRMel Robbins1:00:12

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:00:13

       But then we have this balance between letting things happen-

   18. MRMel Robbins1:00:18

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:00:19

       ... uh, life happening to us or life happening to other people perhaps-

   20. MRMel Robbins1:00:22

       Yep.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:00:23

       ... and us happening to life. Trying to find the middle of the Venn diagram of all of these, uh, doesn't seem superbly simple, right? "I'm going to make a change. That's on me."

   22. MRMel Robbins1:00:36

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:00:37

       "I'm going to accept myself when I fall short, but also have high standards."

   24. MRMel Robbins1:00:41

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:00:41

       There's tension.... uh, "I am going to let other people show their behavior in a manner that allows me to judge them."

   26. MRMel Robbins1:00:48

       Uh-huh.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:00:49

       "But I'm also going to hold boundaries in a way which means that they're not crossed."

   28. MRMel Robbins1:00:53

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:00:54

       This seems, uh, arti- almost artistic in the ability to balance all of these things.

   30. MRMel Robbins1:01:02

       It's the simplest thing in the world. It really is. Um, I am probably... or I would imagine you are this way, I'm one of the most intentional people in the world. And I think a lot about the outcome that I am driving toward and what I'm doing and why. And that becomes a directional signal that I can point toward. And a lot of my intentionality... You know, I'll just give you an example. Like, we were ruthless, and I love that you used that word because I feel like I am a person that has ruthless compassion. Like, I have the highest standards in the world for myself. I demand a level of excellence which does not mean perfectionism.
7. 1:08:14 – 1:19:25

   Why the "Let Them" Theory Frees Your Mind

   1. MRMel Robbins1:08:14

   2. CWChris Williamson1:08:14

      What are the areas of life, the incidents that have been most challenging when it comes to applying this theory?

   3. MRMel Robbins1:08:24

      Yeah. I love that question. Um, it's both... Again, I'm smiling 'cause it's the s- it's the same thing we've been talking about. It's the most challenging and the most rewarding. So, the most challenging way to apply the let them theory is a way that will bring you closer to the people that you love. Because when you say... Let's just take every single one of us, myself included, has somebody in your family who has a very challenging personality.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:09:00

      It's about to be Thanksgiving. That will be presented on the front lines.

   5. MRMel Robbins1:09:04

      You know, maybe they have a narcissistic personality style, and I think the big thing that I believe is that, you know, it's inaccurate to call somebody who has a narcissistic personality style mani- manipulative, because that presumes there's a level of conscious action there. And based on all the research and experts I've talked to, I do believe that people are made that way through childhood neglect, and they're not even aware of it. And so, I think it's just a highly emotionally immature person who is highly reactive and is not aware because their amygdala is running the entire show at all times. And when you start to use the let them theory with people in your life that have very challenging either personality styles or challenging behavior patterns, you really start to see what's theirs and what's yours, and you learn, "Okay, my mom or dad is my mom or dad, my brother's my brother. They've always been this way. What if I just let them be who they are? What if I learn how to accept this person, knowing that they're never gonna change?" 'Cause human beings only change when they're ready to do the work to change for themselves. They're not gonna change for you. They're not gonna change to save their jobs. They're not gonna change for their children. They're gonna change when they're ready to do the work to change. No amount of pressure is gonna make 'em change. No amount of wishing is gonna make 'em change. And so when you learn and start to say, "Let them, let them, let them be who they are, let them think what they think, let them act how they act-"

   6. CWChris Williamson1:10:51

      What if who they are, what they think, and how they act is annoying or frustrating or insulting to you?

   7. MRMel Robbins1:10:57

      I'm sure it is. You have a choice. That's the let me part. Because the mistake that I made forever was thinking I could somehow change the annoying, frustrating, unmotivated, depressed, angry, addicted parts of other people. You can't, because people only change when they're d- ready to do the work to change for themselves. So when you say, "Let them," you're actually, for the first time ever, accepting somebody as they are, seeing somebody as they are. See, we've been so busy judging people and thinking we know better and expecting things from people that we are getting the fundamentals wrong. Loving somebody means actually seeing and loving them as they are. It doesn't feel good when you're in a relationship with somebody, whether it's a parent/child relationship or it's a sibling relationship or a friend relationship or a- a marriage or dating, where you know the person's always nagging you because they know better. If anything, it makes you double down on who you are. Don't tell me what to do.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:12:05

      Yeah.

   9. MRMel Robbins1:12:07

      And so when you say, "Let them," you are forcing yourself to recognize who a person is and who they aren't, and you are choosing to accept them that way without the expectation or hope that they're gonna change. And now something shifts, because when I actually recognize who I'm dealing with, I now get to choose what I think, and I choose to think, when I'm dealing with somebody very challenging, I choose to think there is something that happened to them that they are unaware of. And instead of hoping that they figure this out or telling them what I think it is, I'm just gonna let them be who they are, because I get to choose who I spend my time and energy with. I get to choose whether I look at people with compassion.I get to choose whether or not I have a, I have a family member that's spouting off conspiracy theories and ramming it down everybody's throat and blahbity, blahbity, blah. I mean, have I even asked them, "Well, you know, what might make you, like, believe that? What are you listening to?" Have I, have I taken a moment to try to cross over that line of division and say, "Let me seek to understand how somebody that I think I know might believe a bunch of things that, that make no sense to me"? Because if you can't do that, then you're not acting very maturely either. You're sitting back and judging. And look, they may have just absolutely asinine or unfounded or discriminatory or disgusting points of view, but it takes a level of maturity if you want this person in your life. And again, you get to choose-

   10. CWChris Williamson1:13:43

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MRMel Robbins1:13:44

       ... to say, you know, "Dude, like, you didn't believe this stuff two years ago. Like, who... Like, what do you listen to? Why do you think those things? You know, w- why do you think that would work?" We just want people to believe what we believe. You know, we want our parents who grew up in a completely different generation, had a completely different level of support, had completely different reference points to somehow just absorb everything that we think is right. So we'll sit in judgment and think they're idiots for not thinking what we think, but we never stop and go, like, "Oh, wait a minute. Why might you think that? What were the experiences in your childhood?" If you start to really connect the dots, there are always d- dots that connect to why somebody has the settings in the minds or the beliefs that they have. But if you get so reactive and judgmental with people, you'll get dysregulated and not be able to just be curious. And so when you say, "Let them," you are teaching yourself how to operate with acceptance and compassion. When you say, "Let me," now comes personal responsibility. Let me stop expecting people to change. Let me e- see people and accept people as they are, and then let me ask myself, "Based on my values, what do I wanna do here?" You know, one of the, one of the things that I find is that, you know, it's really easy on social media to talk about cutting people out, very easy to stop talking to people, but have you actually had the conversation? Most people haven't. And when you see that somebody's challenging, if you value family and it's a family member, you get to choose. D- do you wanna spend two days or two hours with this person? Is drinking involved? Are there topics you're gonna raise? And most importantly, are you driving to the family time bracing 'cause you're hoping things will be different? That bracing is part of the dynamic that is creating all of it. If you're like, "Let them, let my uncle drink, let my dad do his thing, let my brother do his thing. I see, I know these people, I'm related to 'em, but family matters to me and it matters to me to show up because I really care about my mom, so I'm gonna put up with everybody else's stuff, but I'm not gonna expect it to be any different. I'm just not. And I know that I can leave a dinner table or a date or an interview or a job or a text chain anytime I choose. I'm in control." And when you're not bracing and you're in the "let me" zone and I'm going because I choose to, not because I have to, you are the most powerful person in the room 'cause nobody rattles you, because you're in a space of just s- allowing people the dignity of their own experience, even if they're frustrating, even if they're annoying, even if they're offensive, 'cause you can leave. And the funny thing that you're gonna notice is everything changes. This is really also helpful with dating, because there's nothing confusing about dating. What's confusing about dating is that you tell yourself a story based on your expectations of what you wish were happening. People's behavior is very, very clear. We confuse ourselves. Like, if you're with somebody who will not put a label on the relationship, it means they don't like you, they like sleeping with you. And so you have to let them not want to put a label on it. And that doesn't mean you're allowing yourself to being disrespected. It means you're recognizing that how somebody treats you is the truth about how they feel about you. And now you get to do the "let me" part. Let me ask myself, "Is this attractive to me?" Let me ask myself, "Am I hoping this person's gonna change? Am I willing to accept this behavior as it is because I'm now participating in it, or do I want something different?" And if I want something different, you don't get it by changing another person. You get something different by changing yourself. And that's true about family too. The more you learn to accept people as they are and as they aren't, the more you stop trying to change everybody else, the more you stop trying to control every family dynamic and you just focus on, "What are my values and how am I gonna show up? And do I wanna bring the fun? Am I being transactional or am I just going 'cause I wanna go and this matters to me?" Everything will shift, everything, because now you're focused on what you can control.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:18:18

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8. 1:19:25 – 1:25:37

   How to Choose The Right Partner

   1. CWChris Williamson1:19:25

      I'm fascinated by how many relationships have survived because people have fallen in love with the potential-

   2. MRMel Robbins1:19:31

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:19:32

      ... not fallen in love with the person.

   4. MRMel Robbins1:19:33

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:19:34

      That by pushing and trying to coerce or encourage or cajole or criticize somebody into the outcome that you want-

   6. MRMel Robbins1:19:45

      Right.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:19:45

      ... from them, you never actually have to come face to face with the potential fact that is "We- we're not a good match."

   8. MRMel Robbins1:19:53

      (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson1:19:54

      "This is incompatibility."

   10. MRMel Robbins1:19:55

       Yes.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:19:56

       And you're, you're hiding, you're obfuscating the truth of that level of compatibility within the relationship with your w- if they, when they, I can get them to be this person.

   12. MRMel Robbins1:20:17

       Yes.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:20:19

       I imagine that many relationships have lasted way longer than they should have done because somebody is in love with the idea of the outcome that this other can turn into if they will just finally listen to me.

   14. MRMel Robbins1:20:33

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson1:20:33

       As opposed to saying, "Well this is, this is who they are. I, we're, this is just not a good match. We're just simply not a good match for each other."

   16. MRMel Robbins1:20:43

       I think all relationships are this. I do. And the reason why is we think loving someone is changing them. And I wanna be very clear. If somebody in your life is struggling, it's a beautiful thing to want them to change. If somebody in your life is not operating at their potential, whether they're flailing at school, or, you know, they got laid off and they can't get motivated to find a job and you see a bigger possibility and you believe it, that's a beautiful thing. What I did wrong forever is I went about the type of support and the kind of influence that I had incorrectly. I was working against human behavior. I was coming in because, "I'm worried and I see the potential and I wanna help you and I wanna motivate you and I think I know best and so I'm gonna come in and direct hit and just kind of tell you what to do and I'm gonna help you with a trainer and get you therapy, d- w- w-," a- and it doesn't work. It actually makes the situation worse. And the thing, h- how you know that you're in a relationship where you're compatible is you just gotta ask yourself, "If this person never changes, if they continue shopping the way they shop and sneaking the Amazon bags or boxes into the house, they're always gonna do this. If they're somebody that loves to spend every Saturday at the golf course and then go to the bar for six... They're always going to... Assume this is who they are. Can you love them exactly as they are? Or are you gonna hold some higher standard over them at all times?" And if you can't say, "I can let them be who they are and let them be who they're not" and they still represent 80% of the things that actually matter. Are they loyal? Do they have good relationships? Are they somebody that you... Uh, you know, I always say to my kids, who are 26, 25, and 20, "Your person is the person that feels like home base. You come in and you walk through the door and you shut the door and you just can exhale. That's your person." Because people can learn skills. People's health is gonna go up and down. But if you've got the basics, you feel like you can be yourself, this is a loyal person, it's a kind person, and the most important thing, and you probably know this research, 69%, this comes from the Gottman Institute, 69% of the stuff you argue about, never, never gonna change. Never. It's not. The real deal breakers are this, if being with the person requires one of you to give up on a dream that you have, whether that's living near your parents when you have kids, or that's traveling the world in a van, or it is starting a restaurant bus- if you're gonna have to give up on something to be with this person that is a dream of yours, or if you have to compromise your values, those are the things that cause tremendous resentment over time and ultimately end a relationship. But all the crap that you argue about that's day-to-day, the ups and downs of people's weights, the ups and downs of their menta- that is, that is what you're signing up for. And so you gotta look at, "How do I feel around this person? Do they have the stuff that actually matters?" Because people are gonna lose their hair, they're gonna get fat, they're gonna get skinny, they're gonna have issues, they're gonna have good jobs and bad jobs, stuff is gonna go sideways. Is this who you wanna do all that with at their core? And if you can say yes, then that's the right person. If you're like, "Mm," now you're in the danger of sliding, sliding into a situation that, "Oh, now we're moving in. Oh, well, now everyone's getting married. Now I should probably get married. It's good enough," and what you're actually dealing with is this fear that you're not gonna find someone, this fear that, "Well, you know, it's like 60%, Mel, but God, you know, it's been four years and I don't wanna be back out there again."

   17. CWChris Williamson1:25:20

       Mm-hmm.

   18. MRMel Robbins1:25:20

       "And, oh, God. Really?"Yeah, the, the person you spend your life with is probably the most important decision you're gonna make if you end up spending your life with somebody.

9. 1:25:37 – 1:36:08

   How to Help Others Flourish

   1. MRMel Robbins1:25:37

   2. CWChris Williamson1:25:37

      A friend asked me at a 30th birthday party last year in Miami, uh, "Who's your best friend?" I was like, that's a little bit of a strange question to ask somebody after age 13, like, best friend.

   3. MRMel Robbins1:25:50

      Uh-huh.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:25:50

      Um, he said, "Okay, let me, let me reframe it for you."

   5. MRMel Robbins1:25:53

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:25:55

      "Who is the person that you can sit in silence with with the most comfort, and who is the person that you can speak to with the least filter?" And I thought that that was such a lovely...

   7. MRMel Robbins1:26:06

      Mm.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:26:06

      ... way to remind you what home base feels like.

   9. MRMel Robbins1:26:11

      Mm.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:26:12

       Home base feels like sitting in silence and not needing to fill it or speaking without a filter. Both ends of the extremity are as comfortable as possible.

   11. MRMel Robbins1:26:25

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:26:26

       And, um, I feel like that's the same with, with your partner. Uh, uh, this is not me just selling my own industry as a, a good one to date inside of, but as far as I can see, marriage is one big long podcast.

   13. MRMel Robbins1:26:39

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson1:26:40

       It's one huge fuck-off podcast, right? Your partner should be someone that you can speak to for 20,000 hours and still find them interesting, still find-

   15. MRMel Robbins1:26:48

       Yes.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:26:48

       ... the conversation generative, right? Wow, there's more to learn about them. They're, they're bringing new things in. This is so great.

Episode duration: 1:48:29