How to Engineer a Life You Love - Mark Rober

1. 0:00 – 10:02

   Lessons From the Mars Rover

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      I never knew that you worked on the Mars rover for NASA. That's so cool.

   2. MRMark Rober0:04

      Well, what's really wild is my name, Mark Rober, is only two letters off from Mars rover.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:10

      (laughs)

   4. MRMark Rober0:10

      If you change the K to an S and the B to a V.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:13

      (laughs)

   6. MRMark Rober0:13

      And honestly-

   7. CWChris Williamson0:14

      It was meant to be.

   8. MRMark Rober0:15

      ... it took me, like, four years working at NASA to realize that. And just one day, I'm like, "Oh, dang."

   9. CWChris Williamson0:20

      What did you do?

   10. MRMark Rober0:21

       So I'm a mechanical engineer, uh, by trade. I got my bachelor's and master's in that. And I worked on the rover that's on Mars for, like, seven years. So the way it works is they just throw you into the deep end, and like, I'm- I was responsible for a chunk of the rover. And so, you know, I designed what it should look like. I, you know, you test it, you integrate it, you put it together. You have a team of people working with you. They have gray beards, they call them at NASA, who look at your design and tell you all the reasons it sucks, so you go back and change it.

   11. CWChris Williamson0:52

       This sounds like some, uh, Gandalf the White, like you need to go and pay homage to the dude at the top of the mountain.

   12. MRMark Rober0:59

       That's effectively what it is. (laughs) But they're smart. They know what they're doing. They've put stuff in space before.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:04

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MRMark Rober1:04

       And so they give it to the young, the young folks who are just coming up to... And they literally, you're, I was in charge of a chunk on the top of the rover, the arm go digs in the dirt, takes that sample, puts it into the belly of the rover. And like, I designed the hardware to accept that. And it's still working, fingers crossed, on Mars, but-

   15. CWChris Williamson1:20

       So that's still going?

   16. MRMark Rober1:21

       Yeah. Which is wild when you look up at the sky. You know, all the stars look the same. Mars has a little bit of red tint to it, right?

   17. CWChris Williamson1:29

       You know where your baby is.

   18. MRMark Rober1:30

       Yeah, and it's like, that's 90 million miles away, and I have, I've touched and integrated, I've touched something that's rolling around on, on that dot in the sky. And what's really cool is on Earth, things oxidize and break down, so they, they crumble and go away, right? So let's say, you know, thanks to AI or whatever (laughs) you want to say, a million years from now, our species is done. There won't be any... If you came here, you would just see nature. Like at that point, everything's broken down and crumbled and rusted and gone away. So the aliens would come and they'd just see this lush planet, and then they'd go to Mars and be like, "What the hell are these?" Because on Mars, there's no oxygen, and stuff doesn't break down. So a million years from now, those rovers are just gonna be sitting there space-

   19. CWChris Williamson2:13

       The shit's gonna still be there.

   20. MRMark Rober2:14

       And it's like, "Where the hell did this come from?" (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson2:18

       What did you learn that you didn't understand about, uh, payloads going into space? What's interesting about that?

   22. MRMark Rober2:27

       (sighs) Um, you know, one thing that's interesting about space is, like, there's no air resistance. So once you get up there and you, you, you start... You just, you just thrust at the beginning, essentially. You get up to about 20 thou- 25,000 miles per hour. That's like five times faster than a bullet. And then you just coast for the rest of the period, right? You just accelerate, and then you go to where Mars will be in nine months. And they have... And you get like three or four times to do little course corrections, but those motors, we call them mouse fart motors, because when you're 90 million miles away and you're just getting that initial thrust at the beginning, you know, fractions of a degree mean you miss the planet by, you know, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousand, a million miles.

   23. CWChris Williamson3:11

       Mm-hmm.

   24. MRMark Rober3:12

       So it's just the tiniest little boof just to the side. And because of that, okay, now you're gonna hit, now you're gonna hit Mars when it comes around. So it's really interesting, the math orbital mechanics. It seems really complicated, but because there is no friction, it's like, you know, for a computer, it's, it's pretty easy to do. And then we, we eventually learn tricks of like orbital slingshots. So you actually go around planets and you pick up speed. It's kind of like whoof.

   25. CWChris Williamson3:38

       Yup.

   26. MRMark Rober3:38

       You kind of slingshot around, right?

   27. CWChris Williamson3:39

       Yup.

   28. MRMark Rober3:40

       So it's, it's a really fascinating, you know, science. But it, it's the equivalent of h- of hitting a golf ball in New York City and getting a hole in one in LA. That's the scale of landing a planet on... um, landing something on Mars. (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson3:56

       (laughs) Uh, have you ever read Seveneves by Neal Stephenson?

   30. MRMark Rober4:00

       Uh, no. Heard of it.
2. 10:02 – 19:11

   Gamifying Life

   1. CWChris Williamson10:02

      What are some of the things you learned from working at NASA that sort of permanently rewired the way that you approach projects or productivity or efficiency? There must be some fundamental principles that were pretty novel there.

   2. MRMark Rober10:15

      Yeah, I think it's this idea of just, like, you know, uh, of, uh- you know, I like building things, right? Um, and the- the number one mistake people make when they try and make something is try and ma- they try and make the final version first. Like, "I wanna build a bird feeder. I'm going to build a bird feeder, but I'm gonna build the final version of it out of the gate." As opposed to, which is how you put stuff on Mars and really make anything, uh, prototypes. You just do a- k- something quick and dirty first. In fact, you do like four of 'em. And you- you tweak and try, and- and those- they shouldn't be pretty, they're ugly. They're meant to just be tests, and you learn from them. And then once you've established all those learning- and s- by the way, some of those prototypes, you break. You intentionally fail them to learn the limits.

   3. CWChris Williamson10:57

      Hm.

   4. MRMark Rober10:58

      And then once you've done all that learning, now you know enough to attempt the final thing. And so really ingrained in the philosophy of NASA, which is something I've now taken into my life and how I make builds for my YouTube channel and even approach YouTube, is like, "I don't know. Like, I don't know the answer, but you know what? I could test to find out." So whenever (laughs) we do anything, it's like there's so many versions that fail before you get to the final output. And failing is the goal.

   5. CWChris Williamson11:26

      Hm.

   6. MRMark Rober11:26

      Like, you want to break this thing. So if I know I have to design the wheels for the rover, you know, I'm gonna make 'em out of three materials, I'm gonna do some analysis on a computer, and then I'm gonna have a bunch of different thicknesses, and I'm gonna test it, and I'm gonna smash it, and I'm gonna break it, because now I'm confident when I have my final answer. I know exactly why it is and the full limits of it, like what it's capable of.

   7. CWChris Williamson11:46

      What's your relationship like with failure?

   8. MRMark Rober11:50

      I, like- I embrace failure, and I, like- I teach that. So in my videos ... So we just did a video where we made a goalie robot that goes back and forth at, like, 40 miles an hour, and then you track the soccer ball, the football, and then the goalie will move to stop the shot from going in. And we trusted- uh, uh, Cristiano Ronaldo tried to go against it.

   9. CWChris Williamson12:12

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MRMark Rober12:13

       And the- the punchline is he has no prayer.Even from the penalty kick spot, kicking it 80 miles an hour, this thing, in the first six-

   11. CWChris Williamson12:21

       Dink.

   12. MRMark Rober12:21

       ... in the first six milliseconds, we knew where the goalie needed to be. That means the ball goes from here. Once it's moved an inch, we know exactly where we need to be.

   13. CWChris Williamson12:29

       How?

   14. MRMark Rober12:30

       Uh, because you just have three points. We're tracking at, uh, 500 hertz.

   15. CWChris Williamson12:34

       Right.

   16. MRMark Rober12:34

       Uh, or sorry, uh, yeah, 500 hertz. So it's like every two milliseconds, we take a snapshot, snapshot, snapshot. And so you just three points make a... Two points make a line. Connect that line, "Okay, we need to go right there." So literally, it's, it's less than a blink, half of a blink of an eye, and it's already on the spot.

   17. CWChris Williamson12:52

       It feels like it's... It probably hasn't even left his foot.

   18. MRMark Rober12:55

       Yeah, that's right. Uh, uh, when we know and then it takes a little bit of time, even at 40 miles an hour, it takes some time.

   19. CWChris Williamson13:00

       A tiny bit of wobble, yeah.

   20. MRMark Rober13:01

       Yeah, just whoop. Uh, so in that, though, we failed so many times, right? And to me, failure is part of the process, and I want to show, you know, especially kids who watch the video, I want them to know that, that this is the case, right? We started a company called CrunchLabs that is like basically these toys they deliver to your month- porch every month. You put them together, and then there's a video from me where I teach you, like, the juicy physics that make the toy work. A lot of times with those toys, they don't quite work perfectly. Like, we intentionally make it so right when you put it together, like the disc launcher's the first one, it's not optimal flying. If we want them to tweak and to change, "I'm going to move this rubber band here, I'm going to push this a little bit. Oh, and now, oh, now I'm getting it to go farther."

   21. CWChris Williamson13:44

       Mm-hmm.

   22. MRMark Rober13:45

       And that victory feels so much better than if it just worked out of the gate, right?

   23. CWChris Williamson13:49

       You know the IKEA effect?

   24. MRMark Rober13:51

       Yeah, I think I've heard of this.

   25. CWChris Williamson13:53

       Same thing.

   26. MRMark Rober13:53

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson13:53

       It's the difference between, uh, pick your own strawberries and cheap strawberries, right? You go, "I, I picked my own strawberries. I really care about this thing."

   28. MRMark Rober14:01

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson14:01

       People, you can go to IKEA, which is nice budget furniture, I guess, uh, and people love their IKEA pieces more than nicer, more expensive pieces that were prefabricated and made for them.

   30. MRMark Rober14:14

       And I think they measure that by, like, how long you hold onto it, right? You're mu- you're much less likely to give away the fur- the IKEA furniture 'cause you put that...
3. 19:11 – 28:21

   How to Harness Your Obsession

   1. CWChris Williamson19:11

      are ... Talk to me about that mastery thing. I think that you're right. We maybe both have a eye for detail-

   2. MRMark Rober19:17

      Mm.

   3. CWChris Williamson19:18

      ... um, degree of obsession. Um, how have you come to learn balancing that? Because there's a lot of benefits that come from it.

   4. MRMark Rober19:27

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson19:28

      Um, but there's also, it can be a painful compulsion to have.

   6. MRMark Rober19:33

      Yeah. Yeah, it's like with everything, it's like moderation, like taking it to a limit. I think I am good at saying no to a lot, and which can help, so it's like I don't take a lot on. Like if, you know, I've got like five really close friends as opposed to like 50 kind of good friends.

   7. CWChris Williamson19:52

      Hm.

   8. MRMark Rober19:53

      A, a similar thing, um, so I'll pick a handful of things that I will go deep on. I think where it could get tough is you're trying to go deep on everything, and then you're gonna get overwhelmed and burnt out. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think there's a cost for everything. Like I probably ... Yeah, where it's like if you, if you are, if you're too m- focused on a thing at the cost of a lot of other things, then it can be a challenge, and I do have some, you know, I have this conversation with MrBeast. He's another YouTuber. He's like the biggest YouTuber in the world. And he's like, um, he's like, "You could be me or you could be happy. Like, choose which one."

   9. CWChris Williamson20:35

      (laughs)

   10. MRMark Rober20:36

       And he admits, like-

   11. CWChris Williamson20:37

       Poor Jimmy.

   12. MRMark Rober20:37

       ... he has a very dopaminergic brain.

   13. CWChris Williamson20:39

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MRMark Rober20:40

       And like dopamine isn't ant- Dopamine isn't interested in having things. Dopamine is interested in getting things. Like that's the reward chemical, right? And he loves leveling up, but it's really hard for him, you know, if he gets a video that gets 300 million views, he's like, "Why couldn't that have been 330 million?" Right? And I'm quoting him here. (laughs) He's self-aware, but it doesn't change the fact that it's like, you know. And so, when you look at someone like that, or like an Elon Musk is sort of a similar brain. It's like, you don't want their brains. And like they'll tell you, you don't want their brains. Like, they can't ... There's a level where they can't be satisfied 'cause they just need more, and it leads, I think, a lot of the amazing change that has come in our world historically, you know, if you look back, was kind of people with similar brains who are just so driven for more that they affect history.

   15. CWChris Williamson21:35

       Well, it's very adaptive, right, to keep on pushing, because you only need one or two people like that in a tribe.

   16. MRMark Rober21:40

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson21:40

       And they will find the new valley that's got the bushes that have the fruit.

   18. MRMark Rober21:44

       Yes.

   19. CWChris Williamson21:45

       And some of them will die, but so what? Like only a few of them will die, but the ones that do decide to k- I think about Bryan Johnson, how-

   20. MRMark Rober21:50

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson21:50

       ... Do-

   22. MRMark Rober21:51

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson21:51

       ... like this. Uh, he, uh, I think of him or like an Elon or even a MrBeast, they're kind of like scouts in an army.

   24. MRMark Rober21:57

       Totally.

   25. CWChris Williamson21:57

       What would you do to have an army filled with scouts? I don't, frankly, I don't wanna be a scout.

   26. MRMark Rober22:01

       Right.

   27. CWChris Williamson22:01

       I don't wanna climb up that cliff that probably treacherous and very well may die.

   28. MRMark Rober22:06

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson22:06

       Uh, but they'll go up there and tell us, they'll come back and tell us what they've seen.

   30. MRMark Rober22:10

       Yeah, and I told-
4. 28:21 – 33:22

   The Reality of a Virtual Road

   1. MRMark Rober28:21

      (laughs)

   2. CWChris Williamson28:21

      You also secretly worked at Apple.

   3. MRMark Rober28:23

      Yes.

   4. CWChris Williamson28:24

      What was that like?

   5. MRMark Rober28:25

      Uh, I was there for, like, five years. I was working in their special projects group doing product design on the Apple Car. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that. (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson28:34

      Ooh, that's fucking sick. So you went NASA-

   7. MRMark Rober28:38

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson28:39

      ... Apple?

   9. MRMark Rober28:39

      Uh, technically, there was two years in there where I worked for a Halloween company. (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson28:44

       Like costumes?

   11. MRMark Rober28:45

       Yes, costumes. (laughs)

   12. CWChris Williamson28:46

       Okay. That feels a little bit like a pivot.

   13. MRMark Rober28:49

       (laughs) I think you could say that from NASA, from NASA engineer to making Halloween costumes.

   14. CWChris Williamson28:55

       Brief hiatus in between NASA and Apple.

   15. MRMark Rober28:57

       It was like an entrepreneurial thing, 'cause my first video ever was a Halloween costume where I had an iPad on front and an iPad in back of me, and you, like, cut a hole in the shirt, and it looks like you have a hole in your body if you do a FaceTime call. Because the FaceTime camera pointing forward will record the hand and it shows it on the back. And it went really viral. I, that was my first ever video, and I was like, "Dang, I have more ideas than this." So I've basically done one video a month since then. But part of that were people like, "Cool idea, bro, but I don't have $1,200 for a Halloween costume." So the next year I was like, "Oh, we just had a, a design on the shirt." Uh, let's say it was, like some guy's, scary guy, looking eye, and then I made a free app that had an eyeball that I filmed that was moving around. So if you cut a hole in the shirt, duct tape your phone to the back of the shirt, it looks like you have this, like, animated T-shirt that looked wild. And it, that was pretty successful. So I did that, like, nights and weekends, grinding, made this free app, made the T-shirts, and it went well enough that like a year later I sold the whole thing to these guys in the UK who make more suits, Halloween c- costumes, and then I worked for them for two years.

   16. CWChris Williamson30:02

       Wow.

   17. MRMark Rober30:02

       And so that was like, it was more of like an entrepreneurial opportunity.

   18. CWChris Williamson30:05

       Mm-hmm.

   19. MRMark Rober30:05

       And people were like, "How could you leave NASA for that?" But like, it was, you know, it's one of those things that in, in the moment, it made a lot of sense. It wasn't-

   20. CWChris Williamson30:12

       Well, the Rover's on Mars. So, you know.

   21. MRMark Rober30:13

       Yeah, what are you gonna do? (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson30:14

       Okay. Then you do Apple.

   23. MRMark Rober30:16

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson30:16

       I went and looked at all of the patents that you've got registered online. It's not just a small number, there's quite a few. You got q-

   25. MRMark Rober30:22

       Well, there's one that I was, like, lead author on, which is actually a funny story because someone at Apple was like, "Hey, you have all these cool ideas for YouTube, where's your bigger idea for Apple?" And literally like t- a week and a half later, I'm in the meeting about some stupid software tool, and then I had this idea of like, what happens when you combine your virtual reality with a self-driving car? Like, what are the implications of that?... and I literally started shaking 'cause I was like, "Whoa, there's so much here." Essentially, like, a car is the world's greatest motion simulator. So if you go to a amusement park and you have motion simulators to simulate moving forward, they just tilt you back like this. But then y- your butt's like, "Wait, but now there's no pressure on my butt. That doesn't feel quite right." But in a car, you could actually simulate moving forward by moving the car. So it's like, there's a lot of entertainment and just ways not to get motion sick, right? Because like, 40% of people struggle from motion sickness. We're gonna be in these self-driving cars, but we're gonna have all this time, but you can't use it if you still have to stare out the window. So is there a way with virtual reality that you can actually be way less motion sick and actually watch movies or work on your computer? And there's a lot in the patent, and we got, like, everything we asked for, which means we're sort of the first ones to really look at this, and-

   26. CWChris Williamson31:35

       Wow.

   27. MRMark Rober31:35

       ... I, I still think that's coming down the pipeline. Um...

   28. CWChris Williamson31:38

       Could you do something like... Because it, it's typically the back of the car's not the front, right, that people have with motion sickness.

   29. MRMark Rober31:45

       Yeah, but that's only because you can't see what's going on.

   30. CWChris Williamson31:48

       So my point being, I wonder if you could somehow make the windows project the whatever you need in order to be able to help people feel better, as opposed to having to ............................ I'm trying to work out how you integrate it into the car itself.
5. 33:22 – 40:05

   Why You Can’t Change a Conspiracy Theorist

   1. CWChris Williamson33:22

      to do that." So, okay. What's your perspective, given that you've done a lot of work in the AR/VR space, you've thought about it a good bit, what's your perspective on kind of how it's delivered? Because I think... I had a... ex-ex-ex-girlfriend got me an Oculus Go, which was the all-in-one.

   2. MRMark Rober33:39

      Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson33:41

      Fuck, s-... eight years ago-

   4. MRMark Rober33:42

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson33:43

      ... something like that.

   6. MRMark Rober33:43

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson33:44

      And, uh, I remember thinking, "Wow, I mean, this is like pretty not bad." I, it's-

   8. MRMark Rober33:48

      Nice.

   9. CWChris Williamson33:48

      It's a bit pixely, but this is not bad.

   10. MRMark Rober33:50

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson33:51

       Surely, surely, no time at all, this is gonna come-

   12. MRMark Rober33:54

       Yeah.

   13. CWChris Williamson33:54

       ... Apple Vision Pro, w- we'd like... Well, I think-

   14. MRMark Rober33:57

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson33:57

       ... as many people t- returned them as bought them.

   16. MRMark Rober34:00

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson34:01

       Um, which for Apple is like, "Oh."

   18. MRMark Rober34:03

       I know.

   19. CWChris Williamson34:03

       And maybe it's the V1, and it's gonna be expensive, and the trickle-down. It's three grand, but then it's only gonna be 500 in a few years time and so on and so forth. How do you think the world of AR and VR technology has sort of delivered on the promises that we assumed? And w- w- what's gone on? What's the journey there?

   20. MRMark Rober34:18

       They just don't have the killer app, right? Like, it's... Everyone who puts it on is like, "This is the most, craziest thing I've ever experienced." And they love it, and then they put it on the shelf and never take it off the shelf, myself included. I've had a Go, a Rift, and a Apple Vision Pro.

   21. CWChris Williamson34:35

       Mm-hmm.

   22. MRMark Rober34:36

       And I never use them. And it's like, I wish they just had the killer app. Like, I would want, I w- I-

   23. CWChris Williamson34:41

       What would... What, what's the killer app?

   24. MRMark Rober34:42

       I don't know, being like courtside at a basketball game.

   25. CWChris Williamson34:44

       Mm-hmm.

   26. MRMark Rober34:44

       Right? Give you access to like... I wanna watch the basketball game real time like I'm courtside, or even better, in a seat you can't even get. Put it on the crossbar at a s- at a soccer match.

   27. CWChris Williamson34:56

       That's cool.

   28. MRMark Rober34:56

       Right? You can't sit there.

   29. CWChris Williamson34:57

       Mm-hmm.

   30. MRMark Rober34:57

       But now I get to watch everything. Like Messi's coming down and it goes in, right? I don't understand why they haven't just attacked that aspect of it. But like live sports seems like a great first place to start.
6. 40:05 – 48:25

   Why We Lose It Behind the Wheel

   1. CWChris Williamson40:05

      You know one of the ones that I've seen recently which I thought was really cool, you know what the fundamental attribution error is?

   2. MRMark Rober40:11

      Yeah. What is... Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson40:11

      Yeah, so, uh, somebody cuts you off in traffic-

   4. MRMark Rober40:14

      Mm, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson40:14

      ... it's 'cause they're a dick. You cut somebody off in traffic, it's 'cause you were late.

   6. MRMark Rober40:16

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson40:17

      There's sort of a, a, a, a attribution to motive-

   8. MRMark Rober40:20

      Right.

   9. CWChris Williamson40:20

      ... and, um, like, a s- uh, an inner sense as opposed to, for us, our shortcomings are because of situation, circumstance.

   10. MRMark Rober40:28

       (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson40:30

       Um, something that I noticed was an equivalent, but around people's parents.

   12. MRMark Rober40:35

       Mm. Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson40:35

       They call it the parental attribution error, which is, it's kind of a rite of passage in pop psychology to blame your parents for your anxious attachment style-

   14. MRMark Rober40:46

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson40:46

       ... or your hyper vigilance-

   16. MRMark Rober40:47

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson40:47

       ... or your obsession-

   18. MRMark Rober40:48

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson40:48

       ... or your depression, or whatever it might be. But unless you're prepared to lay at the feet of your parents, your strengths as well-

   20. MRMark Rober40:55

       Hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson40:56

       ... you can't lay at the feet of your parents' weaknesses.

   22. MRMark Rober40:58

       That's great. Wow, that's great.

   23. CWChris Williamson41:00

       I think that calls out a lot of people-

   24. MRMark Rober41:01

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson41:02

       ... that you want to be able to own your wins-

   26. MRMark Rober41:05

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson41:06

       ... but hand off your losses, and, um, let's not forget that sometimes your wins and losses are just two sides of the same coin.

   28. MRMark Rober41:13

       Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson41:13

       So yeah, you're hyper vigilant, but that's your obsession to detail which has allowed you to become a fantastic musician.

   30. MRMark Rober41:19

       Yeah.
7. 48:25 – 59:46

   The Impending Robotics Revolution

   1. CWChris Williamson48:25

      lots of excitement around AI and stuff at the moment. One area that I th- again, AR, VR, I don't mean to shit talk on the engineers, I'm sure they're trying hard, but I've been disappointed. Like, I'm a bit sad. I wanted super cool glasses. I haven't got super cool glasses yet.

   2. MRMark Rober48:39

      AR is coming, though. Like, AR is getting there. I think that's the future, for sure.

   3. CWChris Williamson48:43

      And what will that look like? Something that can project up into a space so we could watch something 3D in front... Is this like Tony Stark-style stuff, or what-

   4. MRMark Rober48:50

      Uh, no. Like, I- I mean, G- Google's and Meta's latest are p- Have you tried those on?

   5. CWChris Williamson48:55

      Uh, no.

   6. MRMark Rober48:56

      Li- little bulky stereo, but getting there where it's like, it will, you know, illuminate the path. You're getting directions.

   7. CWChris Williamson49:02

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MRMark Rober49:02

      It's pretty functional. I mean, there's...

   9. CWChris Williamson49:04

      That's the one with the little band that you can do the, the, you-

   10. MRMark Rober49:08

       Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like-

   11. CWChris Williamson49:09

       ... like a little...

   12. MRMark Rober49:09

       ... it gives you pretty good, like, I'm going somewhere walking directions, okay, turn here. It's like actually mapping it onto your real world. It's decent, I mean, getting there. Also like real-time translations for like if you're traveling. Um, you know, there's an argument, there's a lot of, if you didn't have to pull your phone out and you wanna like, "Hey, show me a restaurant around here," you know, or even talking to someone, (laughs) uh, there's a lot of like where r- reminding the name of the people you're looking at, right?

   13. CWChris Williamson49:37

       Mm-hmm.

   14. MRMark Rober49:37

       Like at a party or something.

   15. CWChris Williamson49:39

       Just slides over the top.

   16. MRMark Rober49:39

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson49:39

       Yeah, you've got the best assistant researcher ever.

   18. MRMark Rober49:41

       Yeah. Like, yeah. Uh, like there's a lot of use cases where I think it would be really, people would find it very useful. Whether or not that's good for society, that's a different conversation, but like I think there, that is, that makes more sense to me than VR at this point.

   19. CWChris Williamson49:56

       Well, certainly the Meta glasses, I've got, I've got two pairs in the house. I bought, uh, uh, two pairs as gifts this year as well, including the Oakley's ones, the-

   20. MRMark Rober50:05

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson50:06

       ... big wraparound one.

   22. MRMark Rober50:06

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson50:07

       And, um, being able to take a photo-

   24. MRMark Rober50:10

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson50:10

       ... without having to get your phone out.

   26. MRMark Rober50:11

       Yeah.

   27. CWChris Williamson50:12

       Being able to track what you're doing, just to press a button and it hold and it do the thing-

   28. MRMark Rober50:16

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   29. CWChris Williamson50:16

       ... is, oh my gosh, it is so wonderful. I went to a gig in, uh, LA the other night at the Roxy. I saw President play.

   30. MRMark Rober50:23

       Mm.
8. 59:46 – 1:11:25

   The Catalyst for the Glitter Bomb Series

   1. CWChris Williamson59:46

   2. MRMark Rober59:46

      Yeah.

   3. CWChris Williamson59:46

      ... it's not there. Okay. For anyone who hasn't seen your Glitter Bomb series, please explain that.

   4. MRMark Rober59:51

      (laughs) Well, like a lot of my idea, people are like, "Where do you come up with your ideas?" And it's like, I don't know, like my brain's just always on in the sense of like thinking of like, "Oh, that's a good idea," right? And so someone stole a package from my porch and I felt really sad. Have you had a package stolen from your porch?

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:11

      No. Well, actually, maybe but I haven't known that it's happened.

   6. MRMark Rober1:00:14

      (laughs) It's very, it's an American thing apparently. Apparently, this doesn't happen a lot in other countries.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:19

      Yeah.

   8. MRMark Rober1:00:19

      But you d- you do really feel violated, and this was like a $3, I don't even know what it was. Something from Amazon. It doesn't matter, right? And at first I was, the police obviously won't do anything about it. But then I was like, "You know what?" Like, "I helped build the Mars rover for heaven's sakes. Like I could probably do something about this." (laughs) So I designed a bait package basically that had four phones in it that could, I could track the phone so I knew where the package went, but they were also recording so it could upload that footage to the cloud. So even if they destroyed the package, I would have footage of the, the theft. But more importantly when you lifted off the lid, it had a cup that used centrifugal force to spray like a pound of the world's finest glitter. And then to make sure we got the package back after like two minutes, it'd spray just a uncharitable amount of fart spray. So they were incentivized, and y- then I played fake police chatter like ƒ�pâge â?â?â?â?â? you know. "We have a report of â?â?â?" You know. And so we always got the packages back. Sometimes in better shape than others.And I don't know, I think it was- it just really struck a chord for a lot of people who have had the same thing. To make a viral video, you just have to evoke a visceral response. Like, that is the key to making a- That is- that is the key. Like, if you want to know how to, that's it. So you have to feel vindicated, it has to make you feel- You know, it has to be funny, it has to make you feel angry. That's a trick that's used a lot these days in making people angry to get them to share. And so this one just- it checked a lot of those visceral response buttons.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:01:46

      Mm-hmm.

   10. MRMark Rober1:01:47

       And yeah, I went- So I did it for like- Each year I would improve and go cr- Eventually we had drones that came out and sprayed the glitter in the house, (laughs) you know, when they open the lid. Each year I would like- As an engineering challenge, how can I take this to the next level? And I did it for like, I think six or seven years. Eventually went to San Francisco. I had like fake luggage that- Because cars get stolen from there all the time. And I would- I would work with the police, you know. Any time I got footage, I would- I would, if the police wanted it, I'd give it to them. And also, this is a crazy fact, probably about half the people's faces are blurred, half of them aren't. And people argue like, "Well, how do you make that decision?" If you're not blurred, you signed a release, which means they were willing to let me put their face on-

   11. CWChris Williamson1:02:33

       Who signed a release?

   12. MRMark Rober1:02:34

       Every single criminal whose face isn't blurred in the glitter bomb.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:02:38

       Where did the release form go to?

   14. MRMark Rober1:02:40

       I gave it to them because I would like know the houses, right? They took it to their house. So we would knock on the door and be like, "Okay, we got you. (laughs) Are you cool if we show you in a YouTube video?" And you might be like, "Well, why would they agree to this?"

   15. CWChris Williamson1:02:53

       Yeah.

   16. MRMark Rober1:02:53

       And you just have to offer them the correct compensation, which in most cases was like a Starbucks gift card. (laughs)

   17. CWChris Williamson1:03:01

       You're kidding.

   18. MRMark Rober1:03:01

       No. (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson1:03:02

       You- you got people to admit to having their face on one of the biggest YouTube channels in the world as a criminal-

   20. MRMark Rober1:03:10

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:03:11

       ... by offering them a Starbucks gift card?

   22. MRMark Rober1:03:13

       Like, by the way, like a $10 Starbucks gift card. This wasn't like 200. (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson1:03:17

       Wowee.

   24. MRMark Rober1:03:18

       But it's just, what you'd find is just like, we value our reputation a lot. And you think- you think other people have the same frameworks and think like you, but some of them are like, "Hell yeah." Like, "Let's do this."

   25. CWChris Williamson1:03:33

       Well, I mean, you thought that you were going to get a parcel, you didn't. You got sprayed in fart spray. Now you go to Starbucks, you know?

   26. MRMark Rober1:03:39

       Yeah, it's kind of a win.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:03:40

       Aim for the stars, land in the clouds.

   28. MRMark Rober1:03:43

       (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson1:03:43

       Land in Starbucks. Uh, yeah, I- I mean, that's one of my favorite series that you've done. I thought it was so great. And I- Another one, your, um, like scam phone call-

   30. MRMark Rober1:03:53

       Yeah.

Episode duration: 1:53:11