EVERY SPOKEN WORD
160 min read · 32,383 words- 0:00 – 9:10
Are Modern Brains Broken?
- CWChris Williamson
Are modern people's brains broken, in your opinion?
- JKJim Kwik
(smacks lips) Broken is a big word, (sighs) um, and I definitely can identify with being broken with my, uh, traumatic brain injury when I was a child, and my learning difficulties, and people teasing me, calling me broken, and I feel like our minds are under assault, for sure, you know, with, uh, technology. I don't think necessarily technology is, is the reason, but certainly, technology can amplify the issues of distraction and forgetfulness, and this kind of a overload information anxiety, and it's an interesting world. You know, the amount of information is doubling at dizzying speeds, but I feel like, uh, we're not really prepared. I, I don't know a lot of people who aren't struggling right now with forgetfulness or distraction, maintaining their concentration. It feels like taking a sip of water out of a fire hose nowadays just to kinda catch up and keep up. Yeah, how you, how you doing with this, uh, data deluge?
- CWChris Williamson
It's interesting because obviously I, I consume so much for the podcast, you know-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... prep for the guests and other reading and, and then my own reading, and then the useless consumption of everything from social media to YouTube when I'm watching, when I'm trying to eat my lunch and stuff. It's a mixed bag because there are so many amazing insights that I really value, and yet coming along for the ride is this kind of ambient distraction, almost like this habituated ADHD thing that comes in where I just find myself task switching, even though I don't need to.
- JKJim Kwik
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
So, you know, from... You've spent forever studying the brain both for yourself and from a professional perspective.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
How many of the problems that people are dealing with wh- when it comes to focus and attention are an in-built endemic part of being a human, and how many do you think are novel and can be laid at the feet of the modern world?
- JKJim Kwik
(inhales deeply) Well, things are, were definitely simpler for our brains as hunter and gatherers, right? We're, we wanna, we wanna be able to survive and that, that's a big prerogative. We wanna be able to reproduce, we wanna be able to know where all the, the fresh water is and the enemy tribe and the, and, you know, where the fertile soil is. Nowadays, though every day I feel like people are just really, they're sprinting just to catch up, right? New technology, new people, new ideas, fast changes, endless updates. You know, it's happening in our careers, in school and business, industry, and literally every, every person's daily life. And so if people feel a little overwhelmed by the growing, um, like the data clutter, stressed out by all the knowledge that you must absorb and process and read and, and recall.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JKJim Kwik
You know, the nature of my work is really how do you stay on top and, and deal with all that.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I've, I've noticed, uh, executive function, so your ability to kind of project manage yourself-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and, and what's happening is increasingly, uh, like the Vanguard of my life, right?
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You know, it really is. It's like the, it's the absolute front lines of what's going on because there is so much different inputs and so many different things to do and, oh, I could go down that rabbit hole, and I could have this conversation with this person, or maybe I'll do this thing. And, um, there was a point probably like, uh, June of 2011 where the amount of information that people wanted and the amount of information that was available are roundabout balanced. And for almost all of human history there was less, and then it got to-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... I don't know, at some point in the last sort of 50 years it, it hit equilibrium, and then very quickly it just blasted straight through.
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So previously, the, uh, smart thinker was somebody who was able to scout for information and actually find information, whereas now the most important tool, I think, is someone who's able to discern appropriately-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and they're able to triage and they're able to, uh, titrate whatever it is that's needed. You know what I mean?
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, it's definitely a filtering issue and, uh, a prior- prioritizing issue also as well. I mean, we have unfeathered access to the world's information. They say that with our phones we have more access to information than President Clinton did when he was in office, and we're just carrying it around with us. And I don't know if the human brain really evolved to, to deal with that onslaught, with all the context switching and the social media, with all the rings and pings and dings and app notifications, all the social media alerts. Uh, it's, uh, it's, it's a diff- it's a different animal now nowadays, and I think more than ever we need to really invest in our brains, to upgrade our brains. We, we hear about upgrading our technology all the time, get the newest iPhone and, you know, upgrade your apps and your software, your television, whatever. But, um, not a lot of talk about upgrading the most important technology that has created all the technology, you know, which is, which is the brain. And so that, that, that's the nature. I, I feel like a lot of people also don't know a lot, enough about their brain. It's not really taught in school, there's no owner's manual, it's not, not really user friendly, but it controls everything. I think we're, we live in the millennium of the mind. I don't think any of the listeners solely... It's not like it was hundreds of years ago where it was really our, our value in society was our brute strength. Today, it's our brain strength, right? It's not our muscle power as much as it is our, our mind power, our, our ability to learn, to unlearn, to, to relearn also. Um, yeah, I was doing a program at... I just did a Google Talks, and I remember my, when I first started doing trainings at Google helping with mental fitness, there was this quote from Eric Schmidt, who was then chairman, uh, and said the amount of information, I'm paraphrasing, the amount of information that's been created through the dawn of humanity to the year 2003, which was only, what, two decades ago, how long does it take to create that amount of information today, you know? And the answer was like 48 hours. (laughs) I mean, we're, we're drowning in it. You think about all the, the podcasts, right, and the social media, YouTube, there's just so much information. But how we learn it and read it, understand it, you know, that hasn't changed a whole lot. You know, we live in an age of autonomous electric cars, spaceships that are going to Mars, bar vehicle choice-... in comparison, when it comes to our own personal learning, is more like a horse in- horse and buggy.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JKJim Kwik
So I- I feel like we could really, you know, do well by upgrading some of these, uh, uh, these mindset and these methods.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you wish more people knew about how the brain works? You know, functionally. Like there's- there's, you know, interesting stuff to do with the pituitary and the hypothalamus and blah, blah, blah.
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
But when it comes to the nuts and bolts of how people use their brain and what they want it to do, if you were to give a bunch of headlines, you had a bunch of billboards out there that you could maybe-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- 9:10 – 18:55
Brain Performance During Stress
- JKJim Kwik
- CWChris Williamson
I've got an interesting story about this. So I'm currently doing my first live shows. Uh-
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, nice.
- CWChris Williamson
... where stepping out on stage, it's 90 minutes of solo talking. All of the events were sold out in under 60 minutes.
- JKJim Kwik
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
2000 people across the U- the UK and Ireland. And then we're doing 1500 people in Dubai, and then I've got a US and Canada tour coming up with James Smith at the end of the year. Anyway, I know the stuff that I'm talking about, right?
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I know this stuff implicitly. I came up with the ideas. It's all bro science, bro philosophy stuff that- that I've come up with, right? And it's stories from where I've been and who I've spoken to and all the rest of it. And the first time that I did the show, I was so nervous backstage that when I went out, it was like somebody had just put blinkers on my mind.
- JKJim Kwik
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
And I'm trying to access the stories that literally I created, right? I made these things myself.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And somehow I can't access the things that I had. Now, thankfully, I had a comfort monitor and it could, you know, keep on prompting me. But without that, if you just said, "Okay, and now talk to me about the lonely chapter and talk to me about the tall girl problem and talk to me about blah, blah, blah," I- I just didn't have access to it, and that is a very acute version of this, right?
- JKJim Kwik
Of course.
- CWChris Williamson
Everyone knows, everyone knows, you- you- you, the nerves kick in, something happens and you go, "My performance isn't where it was supposed to be." Morgan Housel taught me about this guy, uh, Archibald, Archibald somebody, somebody. Uh, let me check my notes from yesterday. What was the fucking guy's name? This dude, this dude in the, uh, 1900s, early 1900s, Archibald Hill, um, he studied how quickly people could run and he was able to predict based on VO2 max and lactate threshold and all this stuff, he could predict how quickly they would do a mile or whatever distance around a track unbelievably accurately.
- JKJim Kwik
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
But it was, it had basically zero predictive power when it came to competition races. And this was highly criticized. It's like, hang on a second, I thought you've got this formula and it only works in one context. Well, yeah, because when you take them out of that context and into a competition, all bets are off. All rules are out of the window. It's a different predisposition. Their adrenaline, their cortisol, all the, the amount of sleep that they had last night.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
He told me this story about, uh, the greatest downhill skier of- of female downhill skier ever, this lady, and, um, sh- I think maybe she was Canadian, and she would throw up before every single race that she did.
- JKJim Kwik
Wow. Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
Elite athlete, right? And you've optimized your hydration and think about your sleep, and just before you step out on stage, bleh, you throw up and you go, okay, like all of- all of that stuff was totally out the... But look at what she does in training.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
In training she doesn't throw up. So I just think, yeah, the, um, the ability for fear, stress, overwhelm, especially acutely to just completely wreck our performance is it- it's wild. And I've felt that firsthand, and I've now worked out for me a process that I can go through before a live show so that I don't feel like that. Uh, but without that tool, I was just at the mercy of the winds of my fear and stress.
- JKJim Kwik
And I- and I think a lot of listeners have their stages, right? You know, if you're- if you're on stage and you switch context, there's that phrase in that con- content is king, right? Or content is queen. But if content is- is king, then I think context is- is the kingdom, right? And all- all learning and performance is context dependent with- without a doubt and it's also state dependent, you know, pr- practicing in the environment that you need to be able to f- perform in those kind of conditions and even if it's not the external environment, the internal environment is mirroring or using it, the power of your imagination, to be able to- to replicate that and- and rehearse on- on a regular... Yeah, I- my biggest challenge besides learning growing up was public speaking by far. I mean, this wasn't even-
- CWChris Williamson
You really chose the right career, didn't you?
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs) Yeah, I- I-
- CWChris Williamson
As an expert in learning who often does public speaking.
- JKJim Kwik
This is- this is- this is my lot in life for sure. It's, um... But it's- it's a testament that... And I'm- I'm sure this resonates with a lot of listeners that- that with challenge comes change, right? With our struggles they can become strengths, uh, because I had my learning difficulties and I was labeled broken, I- I would be terrified of public speaking because I just never knew the answer. It took me three years longer to learn how to read, so it was very embarrassing. I think that's... Those circles, where those reading circles? I think a lot of fear of public speaking came from that, right? Where you'd pass around the book and you had to read out loud a paragraph or a page and that was, like, the worst for me. I mean, even just thinking about it, my stomach, like, gets... I get nauseous. I mean, I can't tell you how many times in... I could relate to these performers where they're just throwing up and vomiting and... 'Cause I was in the nurse's office all the time and it was all self-inflicted for sure. I mean, part of it might have been strategic to get out of class so I- I wanted (laughs) to be called on and I wouldn't have to give that book report in front of the class, but that- it was terrifying. I never knew the answer. My- my superpower back in school was being invisible. I mean, it was- it was shrinking down. I mean, even my physiology, I was always, like, you know, uh, collapsing so I would take up less space in the world so I wouldn't be noticed and, you know, at that time I didn't really want to be seen. I mean, probably I did, right? I mean, everyone wants to be seen, they want to be understood, they want to be heard, but, you know, my coping mechanism was just avoidance. Uh, it was just- it was just hard. And so, yeah, you're right, life has a sense of humor because those are my challenges, now all I do is public speak on this thing called learning.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JKJim Kwik
Um, but, you know, I think adversity can be an advantage. I- I don't know one strong person that had an easy life, right? And, um, so i- I feel like, you know, certain things come into our lives just like the hero's journey. I opened Limitless ex- e- expanded with Joseph Campbell's, like, the stages of the hero's journey because I want people to feel like that they are the hero, they are the, uh, the Dorothy or the Luke Skywalker if they- if you were, you know, taking on the, uh, the big bad witches or the- the- the- the (laughs) th- the Death Star, those kind of things. Finding a mentor and coming back and returning with some- some gems, some golds, uh, that they can share with the rest of the world.
- CWChris Williamson
What do you think are the biggest lies of learning?
- 18:55 – 24:31
Seeing Heroes as Normal People
- CWChris Williamson
to learning and public speaking-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and so on and so forth, to now being someone who specializes in precisely the thing that you were the most terrified about. And i- i- if... I was talking with Dan Bilzerian last night and he, uh, the f- you didn't have that on your bingo card for me talking about f-
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs) I didn't.
- CWChris Williamson
... creative writing.
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, he was saying how his, his story, hi- hi- you know, his success, particularly with women, but also i- in other areas of life as well, that, um, he wasn't particularly funny, he's five foot nine, he's not particularly good-looking, most of his face is hidden by a beard. Uh, he wasn't particularly anything really, wasn't super smart in school, like he kind of got through the tests that he needed to just about, et cetera, et cetera, you know, i- in terms of raw materials, an incredibly like, mostly average guy, pretty intelligent, I guess, but mostly average guy, uh, with an- a very extraordinary outcome. And he was saying about how he feels like the story he has, at least from a, a female success perspective, should be something that other men find empowering or, or inspiring because, "Look, like I'm not fucking Brad Pitt. I'm not six foot five. I'm not like this, you know, super good-looking dude. I didn't have... I wasn't super funny. I wasn't a standup comedian. I didn't have any of the things, you know-"
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... in terms of raw materials coming to this." And, um, yeah, I think y- normal people doing extraordinary things i- is spectacular, but for the most part, everybody was normal at some point. There are crazy outliers, right? Uh, and, and a lot of-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... the things that make people outliers are the very, very hidden things, their predisposition for conscientiousness, their ability to deal with resilience and hard times, that, you know-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... tho- those sorts of things. The kind of more, like soft-hard skills, I guess. Um, but yeah, man, I, uh, I, I, I always think about the journey that people got to do something absolutely spectacular, and over the last few years since spending time around, you know, outlier people-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... in every different industry. They're so normal, like they're so incredibly normal and they've, they're still riddled with the same, you know, self-doubt and uncertainty and, and lack of esteem and all the rest of it, d- r- th- desire for validation. Almost all of them are. And you think, "Oh, well, that's like an oddly normal thing for this very extraordinary person to have." And that's, that's comforting, I think, like to see-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm. It is.
- CWChris Williamson
... that the, to see that the gods are mortal is, is comforting.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, it certainly makes it relatable, you know, without a doubt, to, to know that these people are, are flawed. Uh, I talk a lot about superheroes because I mentioned I couldn't read. I taught myself how to read by reading comic books, and I don't know what it was. You know, my uncle gave me a comic book when I, when I was a child, and s- I would just look at it and I would read these comic books. Even I, even if the words didn't make sense, I'd be underneath the covers, you know, of my, of my bed with a flashlight, and something about the illustrations really brought the story to life and gave words the meaning, and when I started to understand the words, it was very comforting because I would escape. I- you know, we had, we didn't... You know, my parents immigrated to the S- to the States, and we didn't have a lot of, uh, resources, uh, certainly w- the education, money, you know, that kind of thing, but, um, but yeah, it would allow me to escape because I was, you know, being bullied in school and that, that's not fun for anyone who's gone through that. Uh, had a lot of self-doubt, but I would use it as inspiration. And these, these superheroes offered hope. They offered like, "Wow, these people are helping other people." And, and they were flawed too, like Spider-Man and, you know, Iron Man was an alcoholic, and a lot of people had issues. A lot of them were orphans, uh, Superman, uh, Spider-Man, Batman. I mean, you just think about, you know, th- the, the beginnings of their superhero, their origin stories, they had a lot of, uh, tragedy. And i- yeah, it's a matter of... There's, there's a quote in Limitless that, from a French philosopher that says, "Life is the letter C between B and D," right? B is birth, D is death, life, C, choice, and we're constantly making these choices about who we're spending time with, what are we gonna do, what are we gonna eat, you know, where we're gonna put our focus, but also choices on what things mean. Like, uh, the s- the meaning we're associating to th- what's going on if this is here to, th- to hurt us or this is here to prepare us, and I think that meaning as part of the mindset what- it affects what you believe is possible, what you believe you're capable of, maybe even what you believe you deserve, and it becomes this internal thermostat where a lot of times we're acting like a thermometer, where we're just reacting to the environment, right? We react to politics, we react to, you know, global wars, we react to how people treat us, we react to the weather. But I feel like the people who have, uh, you know, more agency, and, you know, a level of sovereignty, they feel like, you know, they can be a thermostat. They could, the- they don't have reacting. They could gauge. They know what's the temperature is, but then they also set, uh, they have a vision. They set some kind of standard. They set a temperature and then the environment reacts to it. And if I w- if I was to go back to that child, I would, the two beliefs I would instill in, in like my nine-year-old self would be like, "Hey, you are 100% responsible for your life," right? You can make excuses, you can complain, and probably some of it is true, but so what? Like what's the difference? It doesn't make, it doesn't change the situation at all.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
... and it wastes a lot of time, it wastes a lot of energy. And the, and the truth is, we can't be upset, you know, by the results we didn't get from the work we didn't do. I mean, there's just a truth to it and sometimes we're our worst enemy.
- 24:31 – 29:11
How to Help Someone Overcome Nihilism
- JKJim Kwik
- CWChris Williamson
You said on a podcast I listened to recently, "If you fight for your limitations, you'll keep them. If you argue for your limits, they're yours."
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Given that there is one of the pandemics that didn't come from (laughs) a virus, kind of like a pandemic of nihilism or apathy or-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... at least, uh, limiting belief beliefs, um, or believing, uh, what would you say? Somebody has kind of got themselves into a, a routine of despondency and externalizing of the locus of control and not believing-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that they can maybe make the progress that they do. What do you say to them to try and drag them out of that?
- JKJim Kwik
Well, for, for each person, uh, I mean, I would want more, more, more context with that person and more, more connection. I mean, you're really good with social dynamics, um, which is, you know, really shows up in, en your conversations with people. I, I would, I would say reminding people that they have agency is not... Uh, it's one thing to know it intellectually. It's another to, like, embody it, right? That, you know, our world is a reflection of, of our choices. And, you know, giving people ex- examples certainly, potentially could help. Getting them to... E- even with children, right? Like if somebody... If a child... Let's say you're trying to really... You're really strict with their diet and they go to a birthday party and they eat this food. You know, instead of, like, criticizing them for them, just, like, having them self-aware, realizing, and just asking them, "How do you feel?" Right? And, "What caused that?" And get- so they can see, like, cause and effect. I, I feel like we, we all play, uh, a role in, sometimes in our own misery. And the ch- the challenge is, you know, when... Th- this, this, the story I, I, I tell is when I got to spend some time with Stan Lee, right? The creator of so many... co-creator of so many Marvel superheroes. And we're going out to dinner and, you know, I, I just have this time with him solo and I was just like, "Hey, I, I, I'm dying to know, like, who, who's your favorite superhero?" (laughs) You know, all... You've created everybody, right? The Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and so on. And he looks at me, he's like, "Iron Man." And he says, "Jim, who's your favorite superhero?" And I was like, "It's gotta be Spider-Man," 'cause he had this big Spider-Man tie. And, uh, without a pause he goes, in his iconic voice, "With great power comes great r- responsibility." And we all know. I, I, I guarantee you, all of your listeners know what word was coming. And I, I switch words still to this day. Maybe because I had a few head injuries, few... too many head injuries as a child. When I read, sometimes I'll switch them or hear it, and I was like, "You know, you're right. With great power comes great responsibility." And the opposite is certainly also true. With great responsibility comes great power. When we take responsibility for something, we have great power to, to make it- to make things better, right? With, with these, with these choices that we make every single day. And so yeah, I think agency is, is, is very important. That you are 100% responsible. And I also have this belief that everything... Marie Forleo has this, uh, word, everything is figureoutable, right? You have agency and you could figure it out with enough commitment and creativity. And, um, and I, and I feel like we grossly underestimate our own capabilities. Wh- when I say, "People fight for their limitations, they get to keep them," I hear it on a regular. I'll be on stage, and before I go on people grab me invariably and say, "I'm so glad you're here. Can't wait to hear your talk." You know, "You're the memory expert." And I'm telling you, "I'm too old and I'm just, I'm just too stupid. I have a horrible memory." And that, that's the context where I say, "Hey, stop. If you fight for your limitations, you get to keep them." You know, I tell them that, "Your brain is this incredible supercomputer and your self-talk is a program that will run. So if you tell yourself, 'I'm not good at remembering names,' you won't remember the name of the next person you meet because you program your supercomputer not to." I, I, I believe that if people truly understood how powerful their mind is, they wouldn't say, think, or even feel something they didn't want to be true. And again, I'll stipulate that yes, you have one negative thought, it's not gonna ruin your life obviously. But just like eating that one donut or muffin is not gonna ruin your life. But if you eat dozens of that tone... of those donuts every day, every single day, it would definitely have some kind of effect. And so, I think we have to stand guard to the doors of our mind and, and realize again that we're... you know, that thoughts... We don't have to believe everything that we think. And we could also adjust what we think. You know, people say, "I'm not smart enough," or, "I don't have a great memory." Just, you know, editing it. Like, "I don't have a great memory yet." Uh, it just feels different, it just lands different, you know? And it gives you some kind of hope to be able to, to move forward.
- CWChris Williamson
How does memory actually work? Moving beyond the stories
- 29:11 – 39:23
How Does Memory Work?
- CWChris Williamson
that we tell ourselves-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... what are the nuts and bolts of how memory works?
- JKJim Kwik
There, there are three phases to memory. There's the encoding phase, there's the storage, and then there's the retrieval phase. And so if people... I believe there's no such thing as a good or bad memory. There's a trained memory and there's an untrained memory. And unfortunately it's not really taught in school. I mean, maybe they took some kind of class in, um, in high school or maybe college. But I don't know how pr- how practical it is. You know, one of the things I'm obsessed with, even when I'm listening to podcasts or reading books is like, "How can I use this?" Right? "How can I, how can I... When will I use this?" Right? "Why must I use this? How does this relate to what I already know?" I, I feel like so many people learn passively, right? And the human brain, I don't think it learns best through consumption, 'cause we're consuming all the time. And so many peoples' lives... You know, you talk about mental masturbation. So many people just get addicted to just, you know, novelty and they're just buying books and they sit on the shelf unread and become shelf help, not self-help, that, that whole, that whole dangerous spiral. But, you know, the whole idea is you learn something, so how you could apply it,Right? If somebody isn't consistently doing something, and they're procrastinating or they're self-sabotaging, it's usually a mindset or a motivation issue. But going back to memory, I'm always thinking like, "Hey, I wanna make this more sticky. So how can I encode it by not just hearing it? Maybe I could see it and use more of my nervous system. Maybe I could tap into some of those feelings," right? You have that middle brain, uh, where you have, like, the seahorse-looking, uh, part of your brain called hippocampus, uh, which is primarily function as memory. Attached to it is this little almond-shaped, uh, part of your brain, uh, called an, the amygdala, which is like a switching station for emotion, and it is interesting that, you know, the, where, uh, where memory is being processed, it's also connected with emotions. I think information today, it's everywhere, right? So it's very forgettable. It's, it's not, it's very ordinary. But information, when it's tied with emotion and, and, and visualization, becomes, uh, uh, unforgettable, right? When you h- hear it, feel it, see it, then, you know, you're recruiting more of your nervous system and you're more likely to be able to, to retrieve it. The storage part is interesting because we teach people methods like a mentally filing system. You know, something like, uh, the memory palaces, you know, back in the ancient Greeks. You know, so we, we write Limitless Expanded and I pull on and draw on, you know, neuro nutrition and neuroscience and adult learning theory. Uh, also though, ancient wisdom, you know? I, I just feel like what did people do before there were books? What did people do before there were, like, the internet? How did they remember things before there was a, a printing press? You know, how did they pass on history and information, you know, around campfires? And one of the techniques was a storage device, uh, I mean, where you use locations that you're very familiar with, like maybe your home, your school, your office, the mall, maybe parts of your body, your car, and just taking the information that you wanna remember and placing it intelligently around those locations, because as hunter-gatherers, we didn't need to memorize lots of numbers or lots of words. What d- we needed to remember where things are, right? Where the clean water is, where is the fertile soil, where is the enemy tribe, all the survival, right? And so even when people forget someone's name-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
... they tend to ask themselves questions like, "Where? Where do I know this person from?" Right? 'Cause again, the context gives you the con- content. They did s- they've done studies where they'll put, they'll submerge people with, uh, breathing apparatus underwater and give them n- uh, things to remember, like, like maybe something simple like lists of words, and then they'll take 'em out of the, of the pool and they'll test them and h- see how many they recall. Very simple. And then they'll submerge 'em back under the water and test them and, "In which environment do you think had greater recall?" Right? It was, it was, "I was underwater." And we, we could probably guess that, but the, the idea here is, uh, when you're studying something, the environment also is getting anchored to that information and, uh, and helps you to greater retrieve it. So if you, like, you know, we were talking about before, if you are on stage and you got the, uh, opportunity to rehearse and practice and review your information and study on in that same context, you're more likely to be able to access more of that information, 'cause unconsciously with the light, the smells, everything gets anchored to the information. Um, now, that's not possible for a lot of people. Like, may- maybe you could prepare in, in the board meeting there and then perform there also, or study in class and then perform in class, but it's not usually the case. So e- even something simple as giving yourself a trigger. You know, I know you've done episodes about, uh, habits a- and, and, and triggers, uh, and having prompts for certain behaviors. You could bring the environment with you. You could take a certain, I mean, one of the most, uh, the five senses, smell is definitely the one most closely connected to human memory. Uh, maybe for-
- CWChris Williamson
Smell is the most closely associated sense to human memory.
- JKJim Kwik
Right. I mean, I think there's al- and maybe there's, there's a reason for that, right? If y- if you smell poison, it could be, it could save your, it could save your life, or food is rotten, you know?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
You'd be able to recall that. That's part of your survival. Uh, and we all have this, I'm sure there's a fragrance or a food that could take you back to when you were a kid. Uh, we all, we all have those things, and the idea here is, so going back to how the environment gets anchored to your study, um, and your recollection, you could actually bring a smell. Like, let's say you're preparing for your talk and you wanna remember all the different points, uh, when you're live on stage. You could, while you're preparing, you could have a unique cologne or essential oil or chew, they say chewing gum could potentially help with your memory, but a specific flavor. And then it's h- uh, but it has to be unique so it's not diluted, uh, in terms-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
... of learning. And then when you wanna be able to perform, use that same essential oil or s- you know, scented lip balm, gum, whatever it is, and that'll help trigger all the information and data that you were, you were rehearsing. And so, but the storage part is interesting because using your body or using your microwave, like imagine you're in your kitchen and you go clockwise around your kitchen and say, "Okay, you know, the, if I'm gonna..." The first place is the microwave, the second place is the stovetop, the third place is the refrigerator, fourth place going around, I'm doing my kitchen-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
... is the, is dishwasher, and then the fifth place is the sink, then that would be a way of using your memory palace. And then you could go into the adjacent room and do the bookshelf and the fireplace and the coffee table, whatever. And then the idea here is let's say you need to give a TEDx talk. You could take the information and turn it i- into a picture, 'cause we, most of us tend to think in pictures. If I ask you to...... "Tell me about your car," right? Well, why don't- well, why don't we do this? So tell me, tell me, tell me about your car.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a BMW 123D. It's like a coupé thing. It's blue. Uh, it's got matte gray alloys-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... cream seats.
- JKJim Kwik
Amazing. So when you see BMW and blue and matte gray, you don't- you don't see those words, right? When you're saying it, you see- you see a- a- an image of it. And, uh, you know, our visual cortex takes up the most real estate in our- in our brain, which is probably why people are better with faces than they are with names, right? You see the face, but you heard the name. You- you go to someone and say, "I- I remember your face, but I forgot your name." You never go to someone and say the opposite. You never go to someone and say, "I remember your name, but I forgot your face."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JKJim Kwik
So (laughs) it wouldn't make a lot of sense. There's a proverb, a Chinese proverb that says, "What I hear, I forget. What I see, I remember. What I do, I understand." I heard the name. I forgot the name. Or I heard it on the podcast, I forgot it, right? I saw the face. You know, what you see on your- you- you remember. And what you do, going to the power of practice, right, and rehearsal and study and deep work, then you really truly understand it. 'Cause I feel like you don't- you can't- you don't understand unless you could do it. That- that's just a- a kind of a- a principle that I... And then behind every principle, there's some kind of promise and some kind of- of reward. And so, like let's say you wanted to give a talk. In the book, I talk about how 1/3 of your- your- your cognitive performance, uh, brain health is predetermined by genetics and biology. It's pretty accepted in the neuroscience space. But that means 2/3 is in your direct control. And I talk about the 10 levers that would- that would move that, right? And so if somebody wanted to know what those 10 things are, and they had to give a- a TEDx talk next week about it, first of all, I- when I wanna learn something faster, I learn it with the anticipation and the intention of teaching it. And so it doesn't matter what I'm learning. Even if I'm not really gonna teach it, I intend to teach it. You know, and so when I'm reading, I'm thinking, "How does this relate to me?" And when I'm listening, I'm taking better notes, right? If somebody had to teach it, they call it ins- they call it the explanation effect. When you learn with the intention of explaining to somebody else, you're gonna learn it better, 'cause your focus- you're gonna focus better, you're gonna ask more questions, you'll probably take better notes. And, uh, and when you teach it, you get to learn it twice, right? So like if people have that perspective as they're listening to this conversation, like, "How would I teach this to somebody else?" I'll, you know, talk about the 10 keys maybe that move the needle, science-based, and think about it not just like, "Oh, that's great information," but ask yourself, "How can I use this? How can I apply it? Uh, how can I teach it to somebody I care about?" Right? 'Cause the number one reason to learn something is how it would benefit you. But the close second is how it could benefit somebody else, right? You learn so you can earn, get some kind of benefit to return, right? And to be able to share it with somebody else. And also when you share it, it benefits you also as well, 'cause you get to be an expert at that- at that subject matter more easily. So- so you kinda go through some of these 10 keys.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, dude, let- I wanna get high level.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's go through all of them.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I wanna hear them.
- JKJim Kwik
Okay.
- 39:23 – 43:53
Importance of Your Brain Diet
- JKJim Kwik
So- so the- the first, in no particular order, let's say, let's start with a good brain diet, right? What you eat matters, especially for your gray matter. There's area of science, there's a whole chapter in the book on neuro-nutrition, that your brain is only 2% of your body mass, but it requires, uh, 20% of the nutrients. And it's an energy hog, right? It uses up a lo- a lot of energy. Uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Chess players burn some ungodly amount of calories, right?
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like the most static sport in history.
- JKJim Kwik
E- extre- extremely, right? I- I know a number of them that are just always g- you know, calorie, uh, deficient, but they're always- they're always eating, with- without a doubt.
- CWChris Williamson
Never see a fat chess player.
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs) This is true. And so another reason why you wanna be mentally engaged, right? We hear a lot about physical fitness, which obviously relates also to your mental, uh, performance as well. And we could talk about that, 'cause one- that's one of the 10 things. But going back to neuro-nutrition, certain foods. And then I'll stipulate this with, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a nutritionist. But you know, and- and go- go get a food sensitivity test, right? Do a nutrient profile. 'Cause not everything is for everybody. I- I really do believe everyone's bio-individual. Generally though, avocados, the monounsaturated fat. Your brain is mostly fat, uh, is fatty. So you know, what you eat matters, again, for your gray matter. Uh, blueberries. And you know, I put this on my body, so I always remember when I'm at the store. I use this as a memory palace, my body. So I imagine, uh, the- the avocados, using it as a- a scalp conditioner, like guacamole. Or I find blueberries, right? Uh, or mulberries. Uh, a lot of the berries, they're brain berries. They're, you know, full of antioxidants, very neuro-protective. Uh, blueberries come out of your nose. And you know, and when you're doing it, you imagine that you're a child, 'cause children are such fast learners, uh, 'cause they're playful and they use their imagination. That's how they remember people's names. I mean, I don't know if people made fun of your name growing up, but certainly with the last name Quick, (laughs) you know, I got a lot of the... I was the- the butt of a lot of- lot of jokes. But that's how kids remember, right? They say, you know, "Tony, Tony, Bob-amy." Like they make the rhymes, they make it fun. Um, yeah. And so imagine you're eight years old and blueberries coming out of your nose. Uh, broccoli is- is a brain food high in vitamin K. Um, the sulforaphane in broccoli is very good for your brain, especially if you sprout them. That tends to be like even 10 times more sulforaphane, which potentially could help with BDNF, uh, the brain-derived neurotrophic factors. Um, but imagine broccoli stuck in your teeth. So something simple, like if you wanna remember, um, olive oil, you already know about the Mediterranean diet. Um, you clean your ears with olive oil or wearing olive earrings, whatever. Eggs are probably one of my favorite, you know, foods, good protein. Uh, the- the yolk is high in- in choline, uh, which leads to acetylcholine, which is good for, uh, cognitive health and memory. So eggs right in your throat and you're choking on a hard-boiled egg. So those are just like, you know, things that, you know, I would just think about. And maybe people like kale and spinach. Great, make them your shoulder pads. You hear about certain fish, and you have to be careful with fish, right? With the mercury and- and some of the toxins. But if you get a clean source. Sardines. Like imagine in your collar, you have a necklace made out of sushi, you know, salmon sushi or sardines. And- and- and use your senses. Again, imagine what that would smell like. A- and if you can't imagine it-... you know, imagine you can imagine it, right? Use your, your imagination. What, what is it? Einstein said, "Imagination is more powerful than knowledge." Right? Knowledge is what is, imagination is what, what could be, right? We're recruiting more, more of the- those, those visual feeling, you know, feelings, everything. And then finally, um, on your fingers, imagine some turmeric. The curcumin is anti-inflammatory. Uh, imagine, like you can't get this cold powder off your, you know, your fingers. And then walnuts, we hear all the time, the vitamin E. Uh, almonds, imagine them coming out of your belly button. Very simple. And then imagine your bottom. Uh, f- everyone's favorite f- uh, super brain food, uh, dark chocolate, which people can use their own imagination, whatever they-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JKJim Kwik
... want to picture it. But, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
You, um, you, you mentioned that, uh, not just about nutrition, but the new version of the book has got some advice when it comes to nootropics as well.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, that's gonna be one of the, uh, one of the 10 things, is definitely supplementation. So that, that, that'll be coming up in, in, in a few.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, yeah.
- JKJim Kwik
So just everybody imagine like your first place. Imagine my, my, my home, right? You're at the microwave and all, you have all these brain foods there and you're taking it out and you're putting it on your body, right? And, and I bet you even an hour from now, one of the ways to encode is to do spaced repetition,
- 43:53 – 47:52
The Power of Spaced Repetition
- JKJim Kwik
right? Uh, and y- rehearse it, review it an hour later. And also the retrieval practice is so very important. So I mentioned it's encoding, making it emotional, making it visual. Storing, we have a place to put it, the microwave, right? Or your nose. And then the retrieval, active retrieval helps tremendously improve your memory. Even something like asking yourse- after you read something or listen to this podcast, quizzing yourself, right? It sounds so simple and common sense, but common sense is not always common, common practice.
- CWChris Williamson
You know what my favorite strategy for doing that was? For a good while I was training, uh, on a morning time with-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... a, a training, training partner, and I would tend to read. I usually read for about 15 minutes on a morning as part of my morning routine, and I would always try and just explain one thing that I'd read that morning. "Dude, I gotta tell you about, I, I learned this story about World War II," or, "I learned this story about what happened in the space landing," or whatever, whatever.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And uh, that was like an absolute turbocharged hack because not only was I doing the retrieval thing. Like memory is repeated retrieval, not repeated exposure. Uh-
- JKJim Kwik
Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
And it was also doing the teaching thing, right? So I had to simplify it.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And especially given what I do, I, it's all about... It's, it's not just having an idea of the concept, it's also being able to display it, right, in a way that sounds cohesive and, and, and sort of slick. So, uh, yeah. Yeah, that was, that was a good hack for me.
- JKJim Kwik
A-
- CWChris Williamson
Teach your training partner about what you've read this morning.
- JKJim Kwik
Ab- absolutely, and I feel like even, you know, parents could do that with their kids instead of saying, "How was school?" And uh, what are they gonna say? "Good," right? But asking them specifically what they, what they learned and, and going ma- in micro and g- giving them examples again, because it gets them to actively retrieve so you have to light up that same cognitive web, and that's really what that memory is. Every single time it's reinforced and you, you, you actually recreate the memory, right? And so by, by having that representation and describing it, it just makes it more sticky, right? They say neurons that fire together, they wire together. We have, what, 86 billion neurons and each of them have potentiality, like synap- like 10,000 different connections. So there are more connections, you know, that your brain can make than there are stars in the known universe, right? I mean, this is w- this is the power that we have access to but I feel like we, we're only using a small potentiality of it. But starting with good brain diet is, is a good place to start. And then imagine that the microwave, you put it on your body, and then test yourself and teach it to somebody else. You walk over to the second place, if you're in my home, and we'll say we're gonna have like a dinner together, and uh, we go over to the stove top. And the, the second key that I was talking about, the 10 keys for a limitless, uh, brain, is, uh, I got this from Dr. Daniel Amen, the, the famous, uh, brain doctor, uh, psychiatrist. He's written like 40 books on the brain. Change Your Brain, Change Your Life. Uh, uh, he talks about killing ANTs is good for the brain, and ANTs stands for automatic negative thoughts. And that's exactly what we've been talking about, how your self-talk, you know, becomes your, your reality, that thoughts are things, that all behavior is belief-driven. "If you think you can or think you can't, either way you're right," right? Henry Ford said it, that all the, all the self-help kind of cliches. But there's, like with every cliche, there's some form and, uh, a nugget of truth there. So killing ANTs, automatic negative thoughts. And while I'm going through this, people could rate themselves, zero to ten. Like zero to ten, how good is my diet? 'Cause on the other side is the processed foods, the fried foods, the high sugar foods, right? That's gonna spike your, your glucose and, and so on. But on a scale of zero to ten, kind of rate yourself 'cause everyone wants to know like th- what's the one thing. You know, everyone wants like the magic pill. But there's not, there's a process of these ten things. So the second one's killing ANTs. So just imagine on the stove we're roasting ANTs, we're killing ANTs, right? Uh, and so that's very simple and you can't forget it. It takes more time to internally describe it than it does to picture it. And a picture is worth a thousand words, so there's a lot of descriptives there. And then walk over to the third place, which is the, uh, in my case happens to be a refrigerator,
- 47:52 – 49:44
Why Exercise Supports the Brain
- JKJim Kwik
and this is exercise, right? We know that, um, especially strength training, right? It's been s- saying strength training, right? It, it's, it's for so many, so many benefits, right? Uh, BDNF, which we talked about, brain-derived neurotrophic factors, which is like fertilizer for the brain, helps support, uh, neuroplasticity, neurogenesis, uh, neurotransmitters. Think about the dopamine, the serotonin, the endorphins that, that you get from, from working out. Uh, potentially a systemic, uh, decrease in inflammation. Uh, it helps also with insulin resistance. I mean, so many benefits from, from physically working out. And I don't just mean that, but when you're rating yourself zero to ten, it's moving throughout the day. You know, we're talking about, if we're talking about evolutionary science, the brain, the primary reason we have a brain is to control our movement-... you know, and as your body moves, your brain grows. So it's not- not just a mind-body connection. There's certainly a body-mind connection. And, you know, that's one of the... We- we have a 10-month-old, right? And he's learning how to crawl. And they say crawling for children is so important because it stimulates different parts of their brain. Even the act of learning how to juggle. There's a study done at Oxford University that jugglers actually have bigger brains. Like, by the act of learning how to juggle, you could, uh, actually create more white matter. And this could be something simple, like where, or you're rolling up socks and just doing it over a table or a bed, making it very simple, watching a YouTube video, starting with one, then moving, graduating to two and three. I'm not talking about like, you know, flaming swords or- or- or- or electric saws or anything like that. But, you know, 0 to 10, how much are we moving? So imagine you open the refrigerator and you're doing your favorite exercise inside that. Your personal trainer is there. You're doing your, whatever, your SoulCycle, your- your burpees, your- your CrossFit, whatever, but it's in the refrigerator, all right? And that's to remind you of exercise. The fourth one
- 49:44 – 58:36
Brain Nutrients & Supplements
- JKJim Kwik
is what you're alluding to. Let's go over to the fourth place, which for me, again, is the dishwasher and those are your- your nutrients, your brain nutrients. I would always prefer people get it from- from their diet. Uh, that, now that's my personal preference. And again, who am I to give p- You know, like people, I think, ultimately we're talking about agency, that people should really, you know, test it themselves, right? You- you could trust, but then you- you validate and test with your own personal experience. Um, I would always prefer people get it from food, but if they're not eating eggs, then maybe they could- th- they could supplement with choline, right? It's a nutri- a nutrient found in foods like eggs and soybeans, and it plays a vital role in- in- in brain health, right? In acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter, um, and you could harness that- that- that power, right? Some people want to supplement. They're not getting it from the- the fish. Maybe they wanna supplement, uh, omega-3 fatty acids, particularly, uh, uh, DHA, right, which is crucial for- for brain health. It's, uh, it's a primary or really it's a s- it's a structural component of the brain and it plays a key role in memory. It plays a key role in- in brain function. Um, I don't know how... Are you- are you a big supplement guy?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I work with a company called Marek Health, um, and they're- they're really great for blood work and- and they've got me sort of vertically integrated into a whole bunch of stuff based on my system. Uh, omega-3 esters, uh, I've been taking, which are like pharma grade-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, omega-3s. Uh, we actually have this. This isn't out yet, but by the time that this episode happens, it will. So this is-
- JKJim Kwik
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... a drink that I've been working on with a friend for over 12 months now, and that is half a gram of Cognizin®, which is a branded citicoline. It's a version of alpha- alpha GPC, uh, Rhodiola Rosea, which is stress-induced fatigue reduction, Panax ginseng, natural caffeine, no sugar-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, L-theanine, B vitamins, all of that stuff. And, um, I did f- four episodes in 27 hours in LA last weekend.
- JKJim Kwik
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, dude, the only way that I was able to get through that was-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, adrenaline and-
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, the- the right amount of this. And I think that-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... I think there's definitely a place for acute performance enhancers for mental cognition-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... because how many... Like, uh, what am I gonna do? Increase my egg consumption for two weeks in the build-up to that? So I'm, "Oh, yeah, my citicoline response is really great because"-
- JKJim Kwik
Right, right.
- CWChris Williamson
... "I've had 30 eggs a day for the last"-
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... "two weeks" or something. And, um, I'll get your address once we're done. I'll send you some cases of this.
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, beautiful.
- CWChris Williamson
I think you'll really enjoy it. And, um, yeah, I- I'm a, I'm a big fan of it. I've been playing around with nootropics for a long time. Uh, I found some stuff at... Here's a- an anti-nootropic, actually. I got put on an anticholinergic about two years ago, just like-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... a normal, very boring thing from the doctor. But dude, it was like, um, someone had just halved the RAM that I had in my brain. I couldn't remember-
- JKJim Kwik
Interesting.
- CWChris Williamson
... the name of places. My thoughts felt sluggish. Uh, and I'm very, very tuned into the texture of my mind-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... right? Like the nimbleness of it... Same with you, I'm sure. The nimbleness of my thoughts, my ability ve- especially for recall and then not just recall, but all of the little nuances and I'm telling the story and I have to remember to pause here and so on and so forth. And dude, it was, it was just like walking through mud or something.
- 58:36 – 1:03:32
How Your Social Group Impacts Brain Health
- JKJim Kwik
is, uh, we're, we're at the sink. And what I believe is very important that we talked a lot about on our podcast is the social networks, having a positive peer group has been shown to be good for your brain, because who you, you, we've heard this a million times, right? Who you spend time with is who you become, we're the average of the five people we spend the most time with. If you're around nine broke people, be careful, 'cause you're gonna probably be number 10. We have these things called mirror neurons where we're just, we're always imitating people around us unconsciously usually, and I always tell people to watch. You know, we, the things we're mirroring and imitating are usually the W in WATCH are words, where we tend to just have the same language pattern, the same slang as the people that, that we spend time with. The A in WATCH is, are the actions or the behaviors, 'cause it has lot, less to do, like if you smoke, has less to do with your biological networks or your neurological networks and more your social networks. If your friends smoke, that's definitely more of an influence to you, uh, than your biology. Uh, and then the T is our thoughts. We tend to have the same recurring thoughts as the people around us. The C is character. We tend to, uh, maintain the same level of, uh, character, integrity, uh, and, you know, s- uh, moral s- uh, standards as the people around us. And then finally, the H in WATCH are our habits, right? You've heard this phrase where first you create your habits, then your habits create you. And, uh, you know, we talk a lot about morning routines and evening routines. Uh, I've enjoyed a lot of th- the things that you've talked about about it also as well. So all... A positive peer group is so important. We all need people to encourage us, to challenge us, to call us on our stuff, uh, to cheerlead for us. And if you haven't found that person, be that person, right? And you-
- CWChris Williamson
It's also an opportunity to have someone to teach to, right?
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Not everyone has a Substack, or a, a podcast, or a YouTube channel where they're teaching, uh, random-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... people on the internet. But you have the opportunity to be around people who are curious and who are going to teach you-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... about new things. Like, dude, some of the conversations I've had in between sets in the gym have been-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... some of the best things that I've ever done. Like my housemate-
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, I love it.
- CWChris Williamson
... literally has a podcast called The Lift Companion where he goes and trains in the gym, and the podcast is about what happens in between the sets.
- JKJim Kwik
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, it's, it's, it's awesome. It's really, really fun. And you realize that, you know, you have this really lovely, uh, periodized, all right, we're gonna talk for a moment, uh, you know, 60 seconds, 90 seconds during the rest period, then someone's gonna train.... then the other person's gonna train, and then we're gonna come back to it, and we're gonna do another 90 seconds. And it's this really-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... lovely rhythm, actually, to talking about something. I very much enjoy it, and, uh, a- any, any excuse to go into the gym more and excuse it as learning.
- JKJim Kwik
(laughs) Absolutely. And there are certain, uh, brain types that we talk about in the new book. These are cognitive types. Uh, it's an assessment that I put together that I've been using with clients, but-
- CWChris Williamson
I did the test. I did the test.
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, good, good.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm an owl.
- JKJim Kwik
Good. Yeah, we could, we could, we could talk about that if, if there, a few minutes after, the, these 10 things, but like, elephants are highly empathetic, and they love that specially, uh, the, the community. They love, uh, collaboration. They, they're the ones that keep everyone together, and they have high levels of empathy, so they would really ... You know, those are wonderful people to have in your life also as well, 'cause sometimes learning's not solo, it's social, for sure. You know, book clubs and having accountability partners or workout, you know, buddies. All, all that's really important. But just imagine you're a positive peer group at the, uh, the sink, and we're all just like, washing dishes or something like that, and that, that helps you to anchor it, so then when you're giving your TED Talk, you can go through and just walk to the microwave and you're like, "Oh, all the brain foods," right? And you keep, probably some of the people listening, m- if they weren't multitasking when they're listening, they probably remember that there are avocados and blueberries and broccoli and olive oil and eggs and so on, uh, all over their body. And then on the stove top, you're killing roasting ants, and then you open up the refrigerator and people know that there's movement and exercise. Uh, as your body moves, your brain grows, you go to the, the, the dishwasher and you have all your nootropics there, and then they're at the sink and you're a positive peer group. And then you walk into the other room. We'll do the rest really fast, super fast, so that we get close this loop, you know? I know you, you talked about the Zeigarnic effect, and the, this-
- CWChris Williamson
Love it, man.
- JKJim Kwik
... psych- psychologist, uh, whose last name happens to be Zeigarnic, and she's, uh, at a café, the story goes, where she sees everyone, all the waitstaff, uh, deliver the orders and take everyone's order and not write any of it down, and, which is pretty magnificent, uh, 'cause-
- CWChris Williamson
I love it when someone does that. The waiter comes up-
- JKJim Kwik
It is.
- CWChris Williamson
... and he's got his hands behind his back.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's almost a flex. The- they know what they're doing.
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and, and I, I'm still, as much as I know about memory, I'm just like, "Oh, please write this down." Just 'cause it-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- 1:03:32 – 1:07:53
Your Brain Needs a Clean Environment
- JKJim Kwik
is, going clockwise, is the sliding glass door. And so I just want you to remember the sixth key is a clean environment. Clean environment. Uh, we find that th- your external world is a reflection of your internal world. And, you know, you clean your desk or make your bed or maybe you're on your computer and everything's in the right folder, you tend to have clarity o- of thought. Um, and when I say clean environment also, going back to like, you know, when you ingested that, uh, that toxin that were like, kinda threw you off, there are a lot of neurotoxins in our environment. It could be off-gassing from furniture or from your carpet, and so, you know, having clean air is important, whether you, you, you have the windows open, uh, or you have an air purifier. Uh, I would include a clean environment, even the light sources, right? In so many offices and schools, they use the, uh, like fluorescent lights, and that's probably not ... You know, your eyes are only part of your brain, uh, that, that's outside of your skull, right? And when you have visual fatigue, it leads to mental fatigue. And, uh, and they, they probably fill offices and schools with that 'cause it's ultra-cheap (laughs) also, also, also as well. But clean environment, so from the lighting, from the water, from the air, and also just organize. You know, Marie Kondo your mind. So you get zero to 10, kind of rate yourself, how clean your environment is. Now some people say messy environments is good for creatives, but that's probably is true 'cause it stimulates.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
You know? But also-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, think about, th- think about it this way, like walking into any artist's studio.
- JKJim Kwik
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
W- what have you got? The ... there's a torn-up novel over The Far Side and cigarette ends and there's a magazine-
- JKJim Kwik
Torn up.
- CWChris Williamson
... and there, you know. That's not the environment in which you want to do your tax return.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah. Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
Your tax return is in the office next door. It's nice and clean, it's clinical, it's sterile, focused.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But you also don't want to try and do your next ideation in this room that's bereft of any inspiration for you.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, absolutely. So, and, and also, like, keeping track of where everything is could also be some undue, you know, memory or RAM that you're doing just to consciously keep track of everything, right? It's a lot easier to put your keys in the same spot every single time so you don't have to kind of think about it going back to storage, right, encoding storage, and then you can retrieve it 'cause it's always in the same storage place, so you have a mental, a physical file folder, not an actual file folder but a place that you store it in also, also as well. And you've, you've talked about this, like regulating certain activities for where you thrive. Like, you're not gonna work in your bed, because you're gonna get that angst in your executive functioning and then when you're wa- why later on you can't sleep there, right? Because of all, all that state is being... the, the emotional state is ... and that activity is being anchored to the environment, like we talked about-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JKJim Kwik
... submerging under water. It's not just the information, it's the feelings that are being anchored. And so, like even something simple like if you use your iPad to, uh, to watch Netflix and that's your entertainment system, don't, don't do work on it, right? I mean, something, something simple like that. And-
- CWChris Williamson
I really struggle to read on my phone for that reason.
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You know, uh, there's a great, uh, tool called Send to Kindle for Google Chrome.
- JKJim Kwik
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's just a, just an extension, it's, uh, an Amazon, like, official application, and you press one button and the webpage becomes fully optimized for Kindle and delivers to your device if you've got a-
- JKJim Kwik
Oh, yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... Paperwhite or an Oasis or something, and, uh, it turns your Kindle into a read later app. But the alternative for me was to use, try and use Pocket or something which, or like a, a ... I can't remember that other one everyone uses. And, (clears throat) and like, uh, I'm gonna read it on my ph- ... I'm like, no, I'm just ... I- if I'm on my phone, I'm in-
- JKJim Kwik
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... task switching, messaging-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... executive function mode. If I'm on my-... uh, Kindle, all I'm thinking about is, ah. Like if, I bet if I tried it on my Whoop, I bet that as soon as I pick my Kindle up, I just get parasympathetic activation. 100% that happens. That the device that's in my hands primes the way that I feel.
- JKJim Kwik
With- without a doubt. You know, for- for me, I- I read most of mine on, you know, print. It's just my... I'm looking for any opportunity to not be on a screen. But without a doubt, our devices get anchored the same way as our- our- our environment. So yeah, I would say number six. Think about the- the- the door is just clean environment. So just imagine we're just cleaning the glass, uh, and we're just cleaning the environment around the door, which happens to be the sixth place. The seventh place is the radiator. So I have a radiator there, and I would just say the seventh
- 1:07:53 – 1:14:11
Optimising Sleep For Brain Function
- JKJim Kwik
key is sleep. So just imagine you're sleeping on the radiator, and that- that would be very uncomfortable, right? You feel the heat. And, um, but sleep, obviously, for your brain is so very important. It's probably the number one thing. Uh, it's something that I struggle with for a long time. I have, uh, I was... I had undiagnosed obstructive sleep apnea, severe, where I stopped breathing 250 times a night, and I was only sleeping a couple of hours a night for five straight years. And doctors didn't know how or why, and had this... because I'm misdiagnosed for something else, and I eventually had this surgery at UCLA, uh, where they took out my uvula, soft palate, uh, tonsils. It was very painful, to create more airflow, and my sleep jumped up to like four hours. But it- it'd be like 250 times a night is a lot, because each time counts as 10 seconds. So that's what an episode was. So it's like, doctor was saying, "No wonder you're not sleeping." It's like somebody coming in and put a pillow over your face a couple hundred times a night. And so I had a lot of, you know, anxiety around it. And I use CPAP and dental devices and all these things. But, you know, optimizing your sleep because... specifically for your brain, because when you get a... you don't get a good night's sleep, how are you performing the next day? How's your ability to solve problems? How's your focus? How's your mental endurance, right? How's your memory? You know, when you sleep, you consolidate short to long-term memory. So if you have long-term memory issues, maybe do a sleep study yourself. You could get it easily done at home. You know, most doctors could prescribe that. Um, it's also where you clean out, uh, you know, the sewage system kicks on in your brain that can lead early, uh... you know, because if it's not taken care of, it could lead to brain aging challenges. I lost my grandmother to Alzheimer's when I had my... two years after I had my brain injury when I was five. So that's why I'm just very passionate about- about brain health, and- and my inspiration relates with my desperation. But we've he- heard all the great brain hacks. There's a whole chapter in- in here on how to optimize your sleep. Um, we've done many episodes on it. My favorite ones, and- and I know your audience knows this, but I just want to say, maybe say it in a different way just to remind them, because are- are they doing it, right? If... because I know sleep is a big... uh, sleep loss is a big challenge. Um, direct sunlight first thing in the morning, right? To reset your circadian rhythms. Um, caffeine, I can't do past, uh, two o'clock in the afternoon, because at the half-life, I'm extremely sensitive to caffeine. So I just want to kind of- kind of pull that back a little bit. Um, and then just realize that your brain loves a schedule. Everyone has an alarm to wake up. I really would have an alarm to trigger you phasing to sleep. Otherwise, it becomes 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock at night, and, you know, we're not prioritizing our sleep, but your brain loves a schedule even on the- on the weekends. And then as hunter-gatherers, we would... going back to, like, you know, why we are the way we are, we would know it'd be time to sleep because our environment would tell us. There'd be a dip in two environmental factors, temperature and light, right? So the colder... now where it's so cold, you're- you're... it's- it's distracting, keeping you up, you're shivering. But also, uh, you know, darker. And sometimes we want to get off those devices also, uh, because they can mimic... uh, it could fool your mind into thinking it's still daylight, right?
- CWChris Williamson
There's a, uh... I- I read this a couple of weeks ago, which is just a nice... again, mnemonics and memes and easy ways to remember stuff, the three-two-one rule of three hours before you go to bed, no- no more food, two hours before you go to bed, no more liquids, one hour before you go to bed, no more devices.
- JKJim Kwik
Hello.
- CWChris Williamson
The most difficult one, embarrassingly, is the one hour before bed, no more devices because (laughs) -
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... we're so- we're so, like, acculturated to using them that you think, "Well, what am I gonna do for that hour before I go to bed if I'm not-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... using my devices?" And it's actually a pretty good question. But, um-
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... certainly for me, I find, uh, if I sleep... uh, if I eat close to going to bed, my sleep is wildly disrupted. Uh, Whoop did... uh, this is a really cool thing that they do. They aggregate, anonymously, all of the user data, and they look at correlations in journal entries. But... and they know, right? They know what people say that they did-
- JKJim Kwik
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and they actually can read the data on the back end. And, um-
- JKJim Kwik
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
... eating close to bedtime was one of the biggest... uh, alcohol and eating close to bedtime were two of the biggest, uh, disruptors when it comes to sleep.
- JKJim Kwik
Yeah, that- that's been my personal experience also. If I- if I eat, I'm not... I can't go to bed, you know? And so if I end up finishing a meal, because I'm out with clients or something at nine o'clock, then I'm pretty much screwed, because I- I'm not going to bed till at least midnight also. And alcohol certainly could- could have that effect. Also as well, working out sometimes before you go to bed, you know, because you want to bring your heart rate down. But I- but I will go into a sauna in the evening, because... or a hot bath, especially like an Epsom salt, because the magnesium helps you to be able to relax, because it... you know, absorbing it transdermally. Um, also when you leave the sauna or you leave the- the hot bath, your core body temperature drops, right? Which is a signal to produce melatonin. Same thing with the lighting, you know? But now with modern conveniences, we don't have to have a drop in temperature or light, right? So we have to take agency again and- and make conscious con- uh, decisions, uh, for- uh, for our sleep hygiene. So that- that- that's... uh, and also dreaming also. I- I- I talk about how to remember your dreams in- in a lot of, uh, you know, like, in the book and other things you could do, because it's remarkable in that REM state where you do... a lot of your brain doesn't shut off at night.... I'll just offer this as inspiration. Uh, and a lot of inve- inventions, uh, works of art, literature, ca- music came from dream states. You know, they say that Mary Shelley created Frankenstein in her dream. A chemist created the framework of a periodic, the periodic table in his dream. Paul McCartney came up with the song Yesterday in, in a, in a dream, right? And just lots and lots of stories. The- Elias Howe created the sewing machine in his dream, like these kind of things. But that, that presupposes you're getting good sleep, right? 'Cause not just the quantity of sleep, it's the quality of your, your slow brain waves, like the deep sleep and the REM sleep. Um, so yeah, that sleeping on the radiator. Uh, so just imagine that everyone remembers that. Then you walk over. Next, uh, we have a, a China cabinet, and there you want to be able to remember a brain protection. Uh, protect your brain. This is a simple one, right? Your brain is very resilient, but it's also very fragile. Having had, you know, three head injuries before age 12, and I had this, you know, I had my brain scanned and did all these hyperbaric chambers and, and just kind of getting blood flow in the areas that were damaged. Um, just imagine you're headbutting the, the China cabinet with a helmet, (laughs) and the helmet reminds you to protect your brain. And then finally, um, we have, uh, like, a,
- 1:14:11 – 1:19:49
Learning New Things & Meditating
- JKJim Kwik
a, a couch kind of area here. And, uh, and on the couch, you can remember the next thing, which is new learnings. So just imagine you and I, um, I'm talking to the listeners here on that couch, and we maybe have a whiteboard, and we're just putting the words new learnings in your favorite color, right? Because it's so important, just as you keep your... The way you build your body, right, is through novelty and nutrition and then sleep, right? But same thing with your mental muscles, right? It, it requires novelty and nutrition, and it can even potentially help you to age better. Meaning there was a study done with nuns, and they wanted to find out... There were lots of longevity study, living 80, 90, uh, and above, and researchers wanted to find out what was the, you know, the contributing factors. Half of it had to do with their emotional faith and gratitude. I'm summarizing this. The other half, they were lifelong learners. They're always reading, having debates, conversations, and they're suggesting because of it, it added years to their life and life to their years. They, they put this study on the cover of Time magazine. It was called Aging with Grace, you know. But on a scale of zero to 10, and everyone who's listening has a 10, right, out of 10, because they're always learning. Um, that would be key, because that, that's really where the novelty, the newness, right, you make new connections. Um, it could be very supportive. And then, so imagine that on the couch. We're doing new learnings. And then finally, the, the dining table there, um, let's say the last one is stress management. All right, we talked about stress and coping with stress. So whatever you do, we talked about how chronic stress, you know, could, could have negative effects on the brain. Maybe it's body work on the dining table, you know, or you're meditating on the dining room table, and just take a moment and just picture that. So the idea here, using the storage, we started this with encoding, storing, retrieving, is we've encoded it using visualization and feelings and story. We've stored it in very specific places on our body or, you know, in my two rooms of, of my home, and then now can you retrieve it? So now you're on stage and you're going and you see the microwave, and I'm talking to people really who are listening at home. What does that microwave remind you of, right? What's coming out of the microwave, and what are you putting on your body? All these brain foods. And you probably remember it from avocados all the way to, to dark chocolate, and backwards. Because when you understand how your memory works, you can work your memory. You go over to the stovetop, and you're killing ants, right? You open up the refrigerator, and I'm just k- kind of making this interactive. The ex- exercising, and then you have your, your, uh, your dishwasher, and it's filled with those brain nutrients, right, the nootropics. And then who's washing the dishes? All your positive friends. And you go in the other room, the sliding glass door, you're cleaning it, because you're cleaning your environment. Then the radiator, what are you doing on it? The behavior is you're sleeping, right? To remind you of sleep. And then you go over to the China cabinet, you're putting on a helmet, uh, to remind you of brain protection. And then you look at the couch. What are we doing? We're learning. Always be learning. And then finally, the dining table, getting a massage, you're meditating, managing your stress. So it's just kind of a fun, and takes way longer to describe it, but I, I would challenge people to do their own home, and then they can put... When you're having a conversation with someone, you're doing an interview with somebody, maybe you're not taking notes, but you're taking mental notes, and you're putting some of the key points that you want to remember in places, either on your body, your office. And, and it's really infinite. It is limitless the amount of places. If you see card counters do that, or people, like if you see me memorize 100 words or what num- like these are, this is a solid strategy to remember facts, figures, uh, presentations, and, and so, so much more.
Episode duration: 1:37:47
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