Modern WisdomHow To Survive Thanksgiving & LGBT Politics - Scott Capurro
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
135 min read · 27,193 words- 0:00 – 0:35
Intro
- CWChris Williamson
There's buildings and trees in the UK that are older than your country.
- SCScott Capurro
It's true. But when you ask a British person about the building or the tree, they'll lie to you about it. You know, I live in East London. Half of it wasn't destroyed by the Germans like the locals will tell you, the locals from Essex will tell you. But the truth is, the British pulled it all down 'cause they can't stand the sight of anything that's more than 50 years old because they're so ashamed of it. I've been lied to about the age of the building I live in in London so many times. Oh, it's from the 1930s. It's from the 1880s. It's from the 1950s. When the fuck is it?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
Nobody knows. It's all been made up. At least our history is new enough that we can't fake it. (wind blows)
- 0:35 – 9:40
How to Survive Thanksgiving
- SCScott Capurro
- CWChris Williamson
Tomorrow is my first Thanksgiving-
- SCScott Capurro
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... ever. I don't know-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know what it is. I don't know why you celebrate it. I don't know what to expect. All that I see are memes about how to insult or have difficult conversations with your family members around the dinner table.
- SCScott Capurro
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
So can you give me a guide for how to survive Thanksgiving, please?
- SCScott Capurro
Well, it's an adult outing. Now I don't mean just leaving your house and going outdoors. I mean outing yourself to your family in all sorts of ways, politically, in terms of sexuality and gender too. There'll be a lot of trans exploration at Thanksgiving this year, 'cause everyone's trans. There's millions of them, so we gotta look out. They're there. There's one under the table. So yeah, there's lots of trans, so expect a trans at your Thanksgiving. It's Transsgiving this year, by the way, is what we're calling it. Transsgiving, by the way. Um, yeah, uh, people, um, kill animals and barbecue them and then eat them and try to avoid, with their mouth full of food, talking to their family members. I sit at the dining table across from my dad and wait for him to take his last breath so I don't have to do Stayin' Alive anymore, because that old fucker has so much money he will not spend it on me. But yes, what it mostly is, is a chance for people to get together and pretend it's not Christmas around the corner. So there's no gifts. There's just food. You shove it in. You pass out near the dining table, and then you wake up an hour later and say, "I gotta go. I'm so full." You drive home. That's what it is. Or you fall down on the floor, you're so, you're so full. You lay down on your brother's living room floor and wait for people to pass by so you can look up their skirts, but you don't really wanna see most of it. So yeah, it's that. There's that. There's skirt viewing. But it's mostly just a time, I think... It's a four-day holiday. It's, uh, a shopping season, 'cause Black Friday happens on the Friday after Christ- after Thanksgiving. So that's what people are really most looking forward to. I like Thanksgiving because Halloween's my favorite, uh, festive holiday. But Thanksgiving is my fave, because it's just about the food and you don't have to worry about gift-giving yet. And I like the food. It's a nice... Turkey is nice. Some people have ham. Communists eat pheasant or fish or lobster, which is fucked up. But a lot of people do that. Where you're from, I'm sure there's a lot of, uh, meat on the offer, because Texans love their barbecue, and barbecue turkey is good. Um, yeah, i- it's about, it's a holiday about, um, responding to how lucky we are to have escaped, uh, European dominance. People, people left Europe in the 18th c- well, the 16th, 17th, 18th century to, for, um, religious freedom. And, um, that's what they were celebrating. They said, "Thank you God, that we don't have to, uh, eat with the English anymore."
- CWChris Williamson
Is that why?
- SCScott Capurro
And be-
- CWChris Williamson
And I've now been invited... So it's basically a victory party for your nation over my nation, and I've been invited back around.
- SCScott Capurro
Yes. They're gonna kill you. So you will be-
- CWChris Williamson
Is this gonna be like that Get Out movie where that, they invite that one Black guy around and then it's a-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... a big game where they all try and kill him?
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, that, it'll be (laughs) , it'll be like that.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
I mean, I, you know, I think people have forgotten the, the, uh, the truth about the holiday season which really was, um, some people came from Europe and took away some land from some indigenous people, killed them with disease or, uh, murdered all their children to make sure they couldn't populate, and then celebrated that. So we're trying to, um, not celebrate the truth. But this is where the critical race theory comes in. I think people, kids don't really understand what the holiday season's about, 'cause it'll ruin their stuffing and their cranberry sauce. And where all that comes from, I don't know. Don't ask me where the cranberry sauce comes from. Again, that's an English thing, isn't it?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, very much so.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. But I think it, what I used to like about the holidays too, Thanksgiving, Christmas, is they, they used to open films on these days in America. All the cinemas would be open and I'd go to movies with my family. It was really fun. But that's kind of not happening this year either, I think, 'cause of COVID. And does anyone go to the movies anymore? I don't think anyone does.
- CWChris Williamson
Man, I don't know. I went to go and see... What was the last movie I went to go and see? I can't even remember. I wanted to go and see the James Bond, the new James Bond, and then someone told me that it was terrible, so I didn't bother to go and see that. I went to go see some new Marvel thing. Yeah, it was empty, absolutely empty.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. I mean, we're watching a Mexican soap opera tomorrow all day, I think. It's hilarious, called The House of Flowers. It's so funny. And, uh, my husband's Brazilian, so he's a big fan of Mexican TV. And, uh, some of my relatives are Mexican, and they're indigenous people as well. So when I see them, we don't really talk much about the joy of Thanksgiving. And they tend to bring pre-made, packaged microwaved food to their festive events. Yeah. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Is that, do you think that's a little bit of a slight on the holiday at large?
- SCScott Capurro
It might be. Yeah, yeah, it might be. But it's a big deal to my husband 'cause he believes in... Oh, he's gone. He believes in family. It's weird. It's fucked up. He just saw some of his family in Ecuador 'cause he wanted to. It's so weird to me. Like he sees them out of joy and happiness and union, a bond. It really is interesting.
- CWChris Williamson
Not out of obligation?
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, it's, yeah, or because you want a new car, because you want to brag about what you make for a living. So we're seeing my family tomorrow. We've been harassed and kidnapped basically, emotionally, so we have to go see them for a few hours. He'll complain in the car all the way there. But it's mostly because he doesn't understand why there's a room full of people who hate each other so much. When he first met my family, he's like, "I've never been around a bunch, uh, in a room full of people...... who clearly could barely stand the smell or stench of each other. I'm like, "Well, happy Christmas." I mean, my, the, the nice people in my family died because they were nice. They were murdered. So now, it's just, it's the gangsters and the mafia left. I mean-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
... if we survive, I'll be happy. Italians all sit ... They, my family will not sit with their backs to the windows 'cause they're too afraid of being shot from outdoors. My father, his whole house only has windows on one side. That's why he bought it. He never goes to restaurants with windows in them and he never pays with credit cards. He's too afraid of being traced. This is the mood I share Thanksgiving with my family and they're, they're, they're all-
- CWChris Williamson
Why are you part of the Sicilian mafia?
- 9:40 – 15:06
Homelessness in America
- CWChris Williamson
So in America, there are these lanes. At least in Texas, there are these lanes in the middle of the street, and they're ones that are used by people that are going to turn left or right, and they're like fee- feeder lanes or turning lanes or something.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, um, when I go down South Lamar in Austin, that street always has, around about every 500 meters or so, a homeless person walking along with a, with a little cardboard sign. Uh, and that makes me sad. But then twice now in 10 days that I've been here, I've seen somebody who is naked, a homeless person who is naked with a sign, but only naked from the waist down.
- SCScott Capurro
Oh, right.
- CWChris Williamson
So fully dressed up top with a bag, but then one lady who had her vagina out and then one gentleman who was just fully swinging in the wind. And, uh-
- SCScott Capurro
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
I just... I think that's hard to ignore. I don't know how you mentioned that people in San Francisco can ignore the homeless problem. It was difficult for me to ignore the lady's vagina.
- SCScott Capurro
Well, that's, that's, uh ... But not the swinging penis. That w- you're, you're, you're
- CWChris Williamson
That's just par for the course, you know?
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah. Um, you know, I think that's why they're doing it 'cause they feel ignored. Um, and the winter's coming up. (laughs) But, uh, I also ... Yes. In fact, I'm surprised they were just standing on your island. We call them islands. Um, and the islands here in, in California, they're living and they're cooking-
- CWChris Williamson
In the middle of the road?
- SCScott Capurro
They're raising children. Yeah. It's, it can be very difficult. Yes. So, um-
- CWChris Williamson
When you're trying to make a left, when you're trying to make a left turn down on at least 46th or something.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's someone that's, you know, they're, they're, they're frying, they're pouring -
- CWChris Williamson
A family of five in the way.
- SCScott Capurro
Seriously. It, it's ... You know, when I ... I've been in India a few times for work. And you do see people in the street there who have been living there for generations. That's their corner. Um, and it's becoming ... It's on that way here-
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- SCScott Capurro
... in the US. And it's the disparity of wealth (sighs) that creates such a, such a, a, a disproportionate population. I don't ... Yeah, I'm a bit ... I, it, it's not just ashame that I feel. I mean, of course I feel ashamed that I live in a culture and in a planet that lets that happen. But it's, it's, it's a, it's a confusion I have 'cause I'm not s- quite sure why I live in a place. I live very close to Silicon ... I mean, basically Silicon Valley where I live. And I, I work and live with people who are making millions, billions. A house just sold near us for $1.5 million over the asking price. $1.5 million dollars-... over what they were asking. So that's the kind of money that you see here, right? So why these people can make that kind of money creating an app that allows them to get a pizza and a taxi on the way home, but... Which is genius, great for them. But they can't use that, you know, Harvard graduation, uh, promise o- of cleaning up the world to fucking fix the biggest problem that's on their doorstep that they bitch to their families about all the time. "Oh, someone's on my doorstep and they're shitting on my car. They got a needle in my... in their arm." Well, then fix it. Fix it. How about paying your taxes? Or... What I don't get is why... Is we're all part of the problem. We're... You and I are doing it right now, we're on Skype. While we're using social media to celebrate how great we... each of us are, to discuss our own egos on this podcast for 60 minutes, but (laughs) ... but we don't see a Skype opera house, or a Facebook cinema, or an Amazon homeless shelter ever. Ever. These companies are here because they get tax breaks. They don't pay anything. I could go on and on about this, but I don't under-... I, I, I understand as much as you do. So am I driving up the road-
- CWChris Williamson
The homeless problem ex- i- it certainly seems to be a little bit different in the US as it is in the UK. There's... I don't know. In the US, maybe it's because of the weather that people can't settle as much in the UK, or maybe it's that there's fewer, fewer of them, or maybe just the culture, the subculture of homeless people is different.
- SCScott Capurro
They have more of a safety net, you do. My husband's from Brazil, I'm from here. Us living in London, we know that. I mean, I know the safety net is being dismantled by the... by, by, you know, BJ. I know that's happening. But in the meantime, you at least have some. There's... You know, behind our house in London, there's a, an ex-prostitute. I know that because she used to chase me down the street as I was going into my house. I'm like, "Honey, you're, you are barking up the wrong elm. Seriously." Uh, I don't pay for it and I don't pay for pussy, especially. That's just my...
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
But, but she was quite aggressive. And now she lives behind us with her husband, one of her johns who she married, and she has three kids that she's raising with him. And we see that, and we know they're dealing drugs out of their kitchen window, which they kind of have to, to pay for their car, but at least they have a place to live, right? She's raising three... They might... You know, she's got a family and that... I just... It's not gonna happen here.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- SCScott Capurro
You're gonna lose your house because you have a medical problem. You know, I... Y- I... And you're not aware of it, and you shouldn't be. You shouldn't have to be. But you've been raised in a country with free healthcare, and you cannot even imagine how much lighter that makes your life. When my mother died of advanced lung disease, we found a stack of bills on her desk. She was dealing with insurance companies until the fucking day she fell asleep and died in her sleep, trying to pay off bills so she could breathe. And if you don't have that in your life, you don't just live longer, you
- 15:06 – 22:39
Cultural Differences Between America and U.K.
- SCScott Capurro
don't lose your house. It's just-
- CWChris Williamson
Not, not having nationalized healthcare does feel very barbaric, coming from a country that has...
- SCScott Capurro
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Y- you don't even think about it. I remember, I went to New Orleans on a road trip a couple of years ago, and the guy that did the tour was very capable. It was one of these Wiccan, Dracula, scary evening tour things, and up here is the ghost of whatever, and it was cool, and you got to drink, so it made it all seem a bit more believable. And this guy was real competent, really, really competent. Big tour company he was doing it for. We tipped him at the end, and we were like, "Right, well, we wanna go out for some beers." He said, "Oh, well, I also work as a barman at this place." I'm like, "Hang on. So you do... You're a tour guide of this thing, and also you help the operator and you're doing the bar? Okay, cool. We'll go to the bar with you." Start chatting to him, and he was... We were talking about this conversation, and he said, "If you get hit by a car, you'd better walk it off, because if somebody calls the ambulance to come and pick you up, that can bankrupt you. That can send you into this cycle of debt that you're now stuck in."
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And that scared me. This guy's real hardworking. You know, two, three, maybe more jobs. He was saying, "Oh, I've got two cracked teeth at the back. Uh, but I'm not... I, I can't pay to get them fixed and I'm not gonna get the insurance or whatever to do the thing." I'm like, "This is fucking medieval shit. What's going on?"
- SCScott Capurro
Yes. And then it... And that continues, like you said, you know, until maybe he injures himself. A friend of mine is a psychiatrist at a... at Kaiser Hospital, which is a huge local hospital. And he's dealing with, um, people with drug addiction. And these are people that have jobs they can't quit, so he tries to get them off the heroin and the crystal. And they've been taking pain medication, some of them, their entire adult lives because they injured when they were at university playing sport or something, and they can't stop working. They can't take a week or two or four... Or they can't go to rehab, they'll lose their jobs, they'll lose their house. It's really vicious, you know? I mean, Edson, my husband and I were so lucky because we aren't caught up in any of this cycle. And because we've been-
- CWChris Williamson
Is that fundamentally fueled by the medical problem? Where does this come from? Because, you know, outside of that, I don't see why America is any more expensive of a place to live than anywhere else.
- SCScott Capurro
Right. I mean, I think that's... It's a complicated situation where people... Wh- where certain language is used to discourage people from socialized healthcare, like the word socialism. I don't know why. Scares a lot of people here.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SCScott Capurro
Although they get their Social Security checks every month, but they don't understand the similarity or the difference. And, and I think that people are worried about the... You know, we've heard about death panels where hospitals decide whether or not you live or die, which frankly does happen in the UK sometimes, but, you know, it's not a common occurrence. And if people here would just look at the way the pandemic's been handled by the NHS, how brilliantly they've handled... How, how they saved Boris Johnson's fucking political career. You know, what upsets me though, it's not... it's not just that too, it's education. I mean, I think it just feels like here... Edson and I noticed there's a lack of empathy in the US. There just is. There just is. And I mean, yes, nationally. You see it on television, you see it in the way people are dealt with socially here locally, you see it in our political system nationally and locally.There is a feeling of, you need to look after yourself and take care of yourself. And when we're in France, I, you know, I had to live in Italy for a while to get my, my citizenship taken care of. When we're living in c- when we, when, when I stay in Australia for long periods working, I don't sense it there. I feel like the people I know who live here and work here do so because they want to make money. And if you're not a part of that vicious cycle, then get out.
- CWChris Williamson
If you're not in the economic engine. Yeah. I think-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, out.
- CWChris Williamson
... one thing that I've definitely noticed is that Americans need far le- or at least the Americans that I've been around, need far less of an excuse to treat themselves or to enjoy themselves. I think I'm seeing much less of a puritan work ethic over here. So you want to go out on an evening time, you go have some food-
- SCScott Capurro
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or whatever, someone doesn't have to earn the right to be able to go and do that. Now, that may be because I'm from quite a working class, salt of the earth place in the UK, and Austin is kind of every other person is a crypto millionaire-
- SCScott Capurro
Use this.
- CWChris Williamson
... that I meet. Yeah.
- SCScott Capurro
Or- or-
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking decentralized, yeah, musician that does psychedelics on the weekend and has-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... somehow sold their company for ... So maybe there, maybe it doesn't matter. But, um, it, it definitely feels like there's, there's more of a leisure culture here. You know, people just say, "What are you doing at, at 2:00 PM?" "We're going out on the boat." Or some shit. Like that's not-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That's not the sort of thing that you would see in the UK.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. There's definitely a, a, an idea. I, we s- uh, it depends on where you live, for sure. But, um, there's a feeling here that people do... I think that's why the pandemic, people struggled so much, 'cause I mean, our friends don't cook. Everybody goes out to dinner at least, at least five nights a week. People go out a lot. And I think they work hard, and then they, they, they like to play hard. And in fact, some young people just moved into the building across the street from us too, you know, so we can see their entire lives 'cause they didn't bother buying curtains. But they party so much. And that's really great for them. Maybe a result of them being cooped up for 18 months, but also, there's, there's a, a, a feeling of life moving quickly forward that we really feel when we're here. We feel like our lives in London really slowed down when we were there.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SCScott Capurro
Especially over the last two years, but definitely, because... Yeah, we feel like there's a lot more... People just go to a pub in the UK and they talk, and they, they hang out, and there's less of a feeling of having to be impressed. There's, uh, I mean, my husband's Brazilian. He doesn't want to talk about people's income. He's totally embarrassed when we go to functions here (laughs) 'cause people go all on about how important they are. And they, it's, it's really, it's... I, I, I don't know. I think people want to feel, when they're here, as if they're on the forefront of it. We are in a place, again, Silicon Valley, where a lot's being created. There's a, there's more wealth being generated here, the Bay Area, than in any, any other place in the history of the world. So we're living in that. And we're -
- CWChris Williamson
So it's still got that sort of frontier mentality?
- SCScott Capurro
Uh, definitely, but also because of what's happening right now. But California's always been a gold rush state. Things go up and down. I think maybe people here are a bit paranoid and freaked out and aware of that. And everyone knows, a lot of people know, that they're one paycheck away from being homeless themselves. And the kind of stress that that creates amongst people-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- 22:39 – 28:25
Do We Still Need the Term ‘LGBT’?
- CWChris Williamson
to talk about, um, I spoke to Douglas Murray about this a while ago, about the internal politics of the LGBT group, right? And even calling it a group is kind of dumb. What Douglas brought up, and I keep on having this conversation, 'cause Austin's quite progressive, right? And there's a bunch of different people in there. The fact that the L's and the G's actually have nothing in common. Like, they genuinely, there, there is nothing that those, those two groups have. Everyone, in Douglas's words, is a bit suspicious of the Bs. They're not really too sure what they're doing there. They don't really know. They feel like the Ls or Gs that haven't really committed. And then the Ts, uh, uh, in Douglas's words, are just working against everyone. So has... The last time that I spoke about this was maybe two years ago, 18 months ago. Uh, has anything changed over the last 18 months?
- SCScott Capurro
Well, we've added the Is and the Qs.
- CWChris Williamson
What's the Is?
- SCScott Capurro
Intersexual.
- CWChris Williamson
What's that?
- SCScott Capurro
I, I don't know. And we've added the, um... I think it means you're what, you're whatever you say you are.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, so that's to do with gender expression. And then what's the Qs?
- SCScott Capurro
Questioning.
- CWChris Williamson
I thought it stood for queer.
- SCScott Capurro
No. We don't... You're not meant to say that word at all. That's not for you. That's like dropping the N bomb. That's for us to say.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. (laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
And that's when you whisper, unless you want to whisper in a gay man's ear while you're standing in line for a drink in the Gay Bar. You can do that.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) as a question.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. Or, "Hey, queer, get out of my way." He'd be like, "Woo."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
Um, (laughs) um, yes. And then there's a plus. Don't forget the plus at the end, the plus.
- CWChris Williamson
Everything else.
- SCScott Capurro
Every... 'Cause we're desperate for conversation. Just dump any shit on the pile heap, we'll take it. We'll take anybody, right? We're trying to expand. Um, we're branching out. Yes, you know, I think it's all meant to seem inclusive. But there's two kinds of inclusive in my head. There's an inclusive where you don't all agree and that's okay, like a table full of feminists.... uh, where they, a true feminist believes there's, there's a seat for everyone at that table. Um, or there's inclusive where you aren't really, which is these people who are attacking someone like the woman who wrote those books for children where they have dragons and they, they-
- CWChris Williamson
Enid Blyton? Not Enid Blyton.
- SCScott Capurro
No, the other one. Yeah, her too. But, um-
- CWChris Williamson
That was a race thing, right?
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. The, the Harry Potter stuff, the author of that.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, JK Rowling. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. Who expressed her opinion, which is just her idea, and then she got death threats. So that's meant to be an inclusive part of a society, which isn't inclusive at all. And I think when you're trying to... It's like the US, it's too big. I think the LGBTIQ+ community is too large. I think you're right. I think when a lot of queers dropped dead from AIDS in the '80s and the dykes were like, "We're gonna take over the gay pride event in San Francisco because we can do it better." A lot of queers were like, "You know what? Maybe you can. Because we're busy trying to count our T-cells, so go for it."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
"See if you can do that." And, um, and that's why they took the lead in the parade on their bikes. Now it's dykes with bikes for the parade. But fine, the queers couldn't walk anymore anyway. They, they fucking, they couldn't move.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
They were, they were dying, so. And they did pretty well. Although what happened-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) .
- SCScott Capurro
... with the gay pride events, it was out of all of our hands anyway. It became commercialized. So now everything's so accepted and people bring their little meat loaves in baby carriages. "Look at our babies. And we're buying beers. We're heterosexuals. We support Coors beer." Now it's all about product placement, which is what it was gonna become anyway. And that's what brings our community together, which is buying and selling.
- 28:25 – 38:57
The Guerrilla Warfare of Social Media
- CWChris Williamson
S- speaking about JK Rowling, do you see that she had a photo taken outside of her house recently? Did you see this?
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah, I, well, I read about it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. JK Rowling has accused three people who campaign on transgender matters of posting a photo of her Edinburgh address on Twitter. The author, who had been criticized for views on trans issues, has reported the matter to police. Police Scotland said they had made, been made a- aware and inquiries were ongoing. In a now deleted social media post, one of the groups said the photo had been removed after they'd received threatening messages online. In her own Twitter thread, Rowling said that the image depicted three activists in front of her home carefully positioning themselves to ensure that the address was visible.
- SCScott Capurro
Yes. So it's guerrilla warfare, I think. And I think that she's probably got a security system looking after her now if she didn't already. It's, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Madness that you don't already. I mean, the woman's worth-
- SCScott Capurro
Edinburgh. I know.
- CWChris Williamson
... an unlimited amount of money.
- SCScott Capurro
And that's probably why she felt she needed one anyway, and now she's probably even more terrified. I mean, you know, the thing is, (laughs) I... Look, I'm not gonna take a stance on what she said. I think she's... her, her, her opinions are valuable. They're hers. I don't, I don't care. I, I still don't... I've never read her books. I'm sure she's a lovely person. Um, but you don't want to know what your, what your favorite author or actress or thinks. When I read a Streisand interview, I was like, "Oh my God, she's out of her fucking mind. How have I been obsessed with her music for so long?" She... Barbra Streisand has a museum below her house in Malibu. I'll repeat this, a museum of herself below her house. This is documented. There's been a play written about it on Broadway. (laughs) When you go to her house, she might take you on a tour below her house of the cellar of all her awards and things about herself. She's out of her gourd. When, when she talks about herself, she does it in third person. She's crazy, but she's Barbra. So I ignore all that, right? If you read about certain actors, they're anti-Semitic. I remember reading about an actor I won't mention here who I fucking love, an American actor. I've watched all of his films and he said, in a quote, that "the Jews run Hollywood." So it's like, "Well, I guess I can't watch your movies anymore?"But I do, I mean, you know, Eddie Murphy was a famous homophobe in his, in his first video that won all those awards. The things he said about gay men were horrible. Then, I met him when I lived in LA, waiting tables doing room service. I room serviced him on Academy Award nights three years in a row 'cause he wouldn't go to the Academy Awards. He'd watch them in his hotel room. He's 5'4", he sits on a stool, and he's clearly homosexual. He's a little gay in tight pajamas, I was 25, that hit on me relentlessly. But I did the room service because it's Eddie fucking Murphy. It's complicated, isn't it? He's a brilliant comedian. There are certain things about people that make them interesting, and you, and, and if that makes them interesting, you've also got to sometimes ignore that.
- CWChris Williamson
This is the problem that we've got with social media facilitating-
- SCScott Capurro
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... everyone to have an opinion, and also-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... everyone to share that opinion. Yeah, previously, previously you had to work, to be able to get a platform of this size where, even if you were an author, you know, if you-
- SCScott Capurro
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... wanted to talk about your either well-informed or ill-informed opinion on whatever it was, you still-
- SCScott Capurro
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... needed to find an outlet. It was through a newspaper, or on TV-
- SCScott Capurro
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or whatever. Whereas now, the brain to fingers filter has been completely removed, and millions and millions of people all over the globe can see within seconds what your brain just farted out, and then you decide-
- SCScott Capurro
If it-
- CWChris Williamson
... to put it out there. The world isn't meant to consume everyone's innermost monologue in real time 24 hours a day.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. Yes, it's true. And I think that it makes people braver too, uh, to, to, to shout and yell. And it makes them feel like they have a bit of power when they've felt so powerless for so long. There's that too. And, and everyone's the star of their own video. They're on, they're on all the Facebook, Instagram, whatever, and they're making movies about themselves all the time. TikTok. I mean, and, and their movie, their little video might get, you know, eight million hits and they feel like, they feel like now they have the power to say and feel what they want, you know, live. Yeah. I mean, in, in a way I thought that the internet, as it progressed, would make our lives easier. But it's made it, in fact, more confrontational.
- CWChris Williamson
The problem is, I think, that we, we very quickly went from a scarcity of information to a surplus of information-
- SCScott Capurro
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... in the space of probably 10 years.
- SCScott Capurro
Sure, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
So I think the optimal amount of information that we had on the internet was m- maybe like 2011 or something there. And then very, very, very quickly, you went from-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... needing to be able to be good at finding information on the internet to-
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- 38:57 – 47:59
Why Every Influencer Becomes an Activist
- CWChris Williamson
you not think that immediately anyone who looks remotely talented or has a platform gets co-opted into trying to take a stand on something? So for instance, we had the... Laurel Hubbard, who was the New Zealand transgender weightlifter who competed at the Olympics, and the other three women, I think it was the three women that she was competing with, uh, for the, uh, that were most likely a podium, were asked in, or it may have been aft- afterward, asked in a press conference, um, "What do you think? Obviously this is an incredibly unique opportunity. You're witnessing history unfold." And there's a nine-second pause, and then one of the girls just leans forward, presses the button to activate her mic, and goes, "No, thank you," and just turns the mic off. And that, that to me was really reassuring, 'cause you think, "These people are good at lifting heavy things from the ground to over their head. They're not... This isn't their role."
- SCScott Capurro
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Stop looking at these fucking athletes like they're supposed to be... I understand, I understand that if you are in a position of social gravitas, if you have talent, that you can use your platform in order to help, uh, push forward a particular narrative because you have reach and people respect what you do. But that should be the anomalous case of the person who happens to... The, you know, the Cassius Clay deciding not to go to Vietnam thing, right?
- SCScott Capurro
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Right? Like that, that, that's an anomaly from history. That's why it was so interesting. It shouldn't be that every fucking person with more than 10,000 followers on some social media is now a platform. And the reason for this is that every political party is trying to pick up whatever naught point naught naught naught one percent of influence that they can and just co-opt everybody in. That, "Yes, this person decides to stand with us or stand against us."
- SCScott Capurro
Right. Well, I blame, you know, I blame Pontius Pilate in, in a way, because he created Jesus into the first social media figure, 'cause Mary sold her son out 'cause she wanted to be famous as well. So it all happened then, and people are still paralleling their lives to that. They still think, "I can win." You know, I, I, I agree with you. I mean, I, I think when comedians go on Twitter and try to fight a political opinion, it's like, just write a joke about it. You're not a political activist.
- CWChris Williamson
That's your out, that's your outlet. Your outlet is to make this funny and do it in a show.
- SCScott Capurro
You're... Use your voice as a comic. But, you know, everything's a, everything's a, a talent contest now. And for a lot of people that are wondering how they're gonna make a living or, or get famous or be rich, if they do a shocking video, that'll do it.
- CWChris Williamson
There you go. There you go. Have you-
- SCScott Capurro
They're try-
- CWChris Williamson
You might've missed this, 'cause I, you don't strike me as a Joe Rogan listener, but Joe Rogan had Snoop Dogg on his show a couple of days ago, and he brought up that one of the reasons he thinks that they are getting people to focus on race is the fact that it'll distract us from the fact that class is the real problem.
- SCScott Capurro
Mm-hmm. Of course. Yeah. Always has been. I mean, you know, Britain hides it better by denying it exists, but there's a, an ingrained class system there that the US is embarrassed by, 'cause we tried to break away from it when we left, and it's, it's even more here. And here, it seems based... E- externally, you think it's based on income, but it's not. There's, there's an opaque one percent in this country that not only will I never meet, I'll never even know who they are, and they're running everything. So yeah, there's a system here that... (sighs) That it seems to create a, uh, an, a group of people that really have, have no... Again, we talked about this. They, they have no empathy. They have no reason (sighs) to feel... You know, w- when I've... If you've been watching Succession, I know it's not a documentary, but I've worked for rich people.... uh, many times for very, very wealthy people. And they're fucking miserable, and they take it out on each other. And, um, my family has a bit of money based on, you know, investments and property. And the way my family treats one another is not that dissimilar from what you're watching (laughs) on TV. There's a lot of suspicion and threat, because no one wants to be knocked down a peg. No one wants to go down a peg. And man, it, it's just... Here, oh, there's so much... And something my friends identified as homophobia here in the US still, it's not when you're, when, when people you know that are in positions of power treat you that way. It's class. Because they think, if you've identified yourself in a subculture, like the LGBT community in this country, that that's 'cause you're a loser. And what they mean is, that they themselves might suck cock, as a guy, but they don't... But they're, they would never identify as being gay, because they don't see themselves as politically motivated by that community. And they're winners. They've been told they're winners their whole lives. They went to Yale, they went to graduate school, they have a PhD, they teach at Stanford, they got a wife, they got kids, because that's what a winner looks like. And to be gay and to not have those things, to not... To have your power reduced at that level, even, and especially, at the educational level, the higher education level in this country, makes you a loser. It's a class system. It's not about being queer. It's about being a winner. And if you have Black skin, it's not your fault, but i- it identifies you in a certain way, and people associate things with you, which more... Maybe more media-driven than anything else. But again, it's not about race. It's about whether you're at the top or bottom.
- CWChris Williamson
Literally. Did you see that the Women's March group sent out an email with the average number of donations recently, and the number was unfortunate? You see this?
- SCScott Capurro
Whoa. (laughs) What do you mean, "Unfortunate"?
- CWChris Williamson
The Women's March group sent out an email with average donations and apologized for including 1492 in there.
- SCScott Capurro
Whoa.
- CWChris Williamson
"We apologize deeply for the email that was sent today. 1492 was our average donation amount this week."
- SCScott Capurro
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"It was an oversight on our part to not make the connection to a year of co- colonization, conquest, and genocide for Indigenous people."
- SCScott Capurro
Oh, God. Oh, Jesus.
- CWChris Williamson
"Especially before Thanksgiving."
- SCScott Capurro
Oh. It's not even the proper year. They're reading that from, from crappy history book from their elementary school. It's a different year. It's all made up. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, it's hilarious. Go, "That's funny." See? The-
- CWChris Williamson
That was supposed to be the year that Christopher Columbus had stepped on American soil.
- SCScott Capurro
He did, yeah. He did it that year. Or so he said. Who knows? People-
- CWChris Williamson
1492, so that number itself, the, the average amount of donations was problematic.
- SCScott Capurro
Yes. And he might have been in other parts of th- of not the US, but America, before that. Other people were. Anyway, yes. Um, yeah. That's, that's something worth feeling bad about. But this is what I mean. Comedians don't have to be non-funny about this stuff, or you know, politically motivated in some correct way. There's so much material. That's one great thing about all this. That's why I miss Trump a little bit. There's so many jokes in all this. I mean, if you're not writing material about this, then you are a loser. I mean, if you are avoiding this stuff on stage... It's one thing I like about Rogan. You know, I've only worked with him once. Again, I was doing a weekend here in the city at the same club I discussed earlier, and he was popping in, and he wanted to do his own show. So he, we closed my show, and at midnight, he went on that same stage, 'cause it's such a popular club, and did his own set. And I watched him, and I was, I was impressed how fucking intelligent he is live. And I th- I wish, I, I wish he trusted himself enough on his own show. Not that I listen to every podcast, but I have listened to it. And I feel like he dilutes it a little bit, maybe just on the ones I heard. But he is a brainiac. He is. And, and I do like that he covers current subject matter in his sets and that he's funny about them. You may not agree with what he says, you may hate his politics, whatever. But all these people getting angry about a recent comedy show on Netflix, where the comedian went on about LGBT rights and trans rights, people just fucking lost their sum, quit their job, or protested, blah, blah, blah, over Chappelle's set. I watched it. It's Chappelle. He pushes buttons. He does what Chappelle does. I wasn't offended in any way by what he said about the LGBT. In fact, I thought he said something brilliant about gay... You know, gay people are liberal until they're white, which is true. Can gay people be racist? Yes, they can. We have a whole racist subculture in the LGBT community that I won't go on about right now. But a lot of guys, when... Are you a rice queen? Are you a sticky rice queen? Are you a brown rice queen? Are you a ding queen? Uh, all these terms meaning skin color about who you're fucking. So yeah, gay people can be racist, if you're wondering. And he covered it. A lot of gay comics wouldn't go near that with their acts. They wouldn't be brave enough. We have to wait till Chappelle does it, right? And then complain about it. You know, I feel bad, like Andrew said, Andrew Doyle, he's a friend of ours, for all those people who had a gun held to their heads and made to watch that set on Netflix. You don't have to watch it. Change the channel. Turn it off. No one cares about your fucking opinion about it. You know? If you're offended, you're af- Good. People are offended by comedy all the time. That's 'cause it works. They're just ideas. They're not gonna hurt you. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Didn't you get... You got, uh, in some trouble
- 47:59 – 1:02:35
How Scott Got Banned from Australian TV
- CWChris Williamson
on Australian TV for doing something.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. I-
- CWChris Williamson
Didn't you get canceled from Australian TV or whatever?
- SCScott Capurro
Basically, never been invited back because of that.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, the entire country of Australia has a problem with you.
- SCScott Capurro
There's a myth about it now, too. There's, there's whole memes about it, and there's, there's sayings. "Don't Capuro me on this." You're not gonna Capure us, are you? Meaning, "You're not gonna go on TV and do a different set than you promised, right? You're not gonna get people fired from this network. You're not gonna..." So, the story is that I told jokes about raping the Virgin Mary. Now, I didn't tell those jokes. Do you have any? 'Cause if you have them and they're good, I'll tell them. Don't have them. What I talked about was Christ being on the cross and forgetting his safe word, is what I talked about. But they had seen my scripted set, and they had denied me a rehearsal.I won't defend myself in this. I don't have to. But what they did was change the story after my set came out live on TV, to defend themselves. Now, at the time, this is long- this is 20 years ago, I would've used it to push the show forward. That's what I would've done. "Let's run with this." But they were cowards and didn't know how to do that. The Festival of Melbourne, my management in London, cowered to what they thought public opinion was. As it turned out, people thought it was hilarious we'd seen it, but they worried, people got fired at the network, I heard, and it became, it became a negative thing, which is now if it happened, 'cause of social media, I'd be huge because of that. It would've had me, I would've toured the world by the time... And because th- the Australians, honestly, i- in media, are a bit homophobic. (laughs) 'Cause they, they really were then. It's like, "Why is the gay man in the room the smartest one with all the power? How did that happen?" It's also complicated too 'cause the show's host was a clo- famously a closet case, and didn't want his image soiled or associated with, in any way, the ga- gay community. There was a lot of shit going on.
- CWChris Williamson
That's something that I've noticed. I did a, a talk at the start of the, uh... And partway through it, there was, um, a couple of emails that got sent to the group that were organizing it that said, uh, "Have you seen this? Have you seen what Chris has been talking about?" And it was a link to a trailer on my Instagram of me and Douglas Murray, and Douglas was talking about the Chaz Chop Autonomous Zone, and saying... Just being Douglas, right? Talking about it. I don't talk throughout the entire trailer. I don't say anything, but I do laugh. And they said that this laugh is, uh, we're taking this laugh as the fact that he is agreeing. This is a signal that he's agreeing with what Douglas says. "Are you really inviting this person?" So when that happened, first off, th- this is the indignation, right? You think this is absolutely insane. F- I, you know, Douglas's points are his own, I was laughing, it's my show. It's a trailer from eight months ago. The only reason that this would've been sent in by multiple people, remembering it's a really old trailer, is if it's a coordination on their part to get multiple people to send it in, so on and so forth. But for a moment, I saw, in that situation, "Oh, this could be, this could be my thing."
- SCScott Capurro
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"This could be canceled for a laugh. This could be, this is how I, this is how I could get myself onto Tucker Carlson, or this is how I could get myself..." You know, you do the tour off the back of it, you get the right people to retweet it, and you notice this, the opportunity arising. "This could be my Evergreen State for Brett Weinstein or my Bill C16 for Jordan Peterson." Something innocuous that, that ends up blowing up in somebody's face.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And that, that... Like, I didn't follow through with it. They said, "Look, don't antagonize anyone. Don't reply on Twitter." Sure enough, the whole thing dissipated, went away, did the talk, it's absolutely fine. But for a moment, I saw in the less gracious part of my nature a bit rise up and say, "This could be... This could be the beginning now." And the same way that we have perverse incentives, I think, for potentially some people that are involved in cases as jurors, or as judges, or as whatever, the lawyers. Um, I think that you have this with cancellation now, that some people almost go out of their way. Like, cancellation's the new Love Island. If you manage to get canceled somewhere, not sufficiently bad that the public hates you, but bad enough to garner a little bit of attention, that's your springboard to a career.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah. As long as you're on a kiddie fiddling, anything else, people will come out and see you, I think. And yeah, I think it's the only way to sell papers now, is to put bad news on the front of them. And bad news becomes good, 'cause suddenly you're recognized. But they've said for a long time, right, any publicity is good publicity. I think Harvey Fierstein was criticized for saying that decades ago, uh, during the AIDS crisis, that any publicity for gay men is good 'cause it gets us out there and makes us more real. I think it was Harvey. But either way, that's, I think, always been the case. And now, it doesn't take a, a media facility like a newspaper or a network to promote it. You can do it out of your home. I just feel like, though... (laughs) He laughed. How dare he? It's like... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
It makes aud-... I just did a show at a, at a very, kind of, uh, upscale kind of area on Saturday night, uh, the wine country area. And it was sorted. And, um, beautiful little room, a tasting room, I did a comedy show there. Th- The staff were, are great, very supportive. But the audience were just so clammed up, like, a lot of very... The whole room was white except for one Black guy. He was enjoying it. But the rest of the room were a lot of, like, 20 to 35-year-old white women with their arms crossed, just very anxious about just about everything I said on stage. Now, I've been doing this for quite a while, and if you pay to come see me, eh, you kind of know what you're in for. I mean, I'm no, I'm no surprise. It's the same old shit rehashed every fucking time is how I am. That's my act. So, it... But, but there, getting more, just more about everything, which makes me poke and prod. And the more they restrict, the more I push, you know? So, at the end, a s- bunch of people came up, "We really enjoyed it." And I said, "I th- you might reflect that in your response next time then." And I might think about coming back, because (laughs) I'm not here to be your sounding board to see if it's okay if you laugh at this and then laugh at it in the car on the way home. I don't want to be a part of that conversation. I want the conversation in the room. But one thing that I find, with all that's going on around us with social media and people being terrified of being caught on camera responding, like you just said, is that immediate response is stifled. So I'm terrified about people not actually telling me what they think. It really fucking freaks me out.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, so they've got a public persona and a private persona?
- SCScott Capurro
And to think that you're gonna leave the room, and that suddenly what people actually think about you is gonna be voiced. I fucking hate that. It's why I never talk negatively about comedians, people I work with. There's no point in it anyway, it's not gonna get you anywhere. But I don't... If I feel badly about somebody, I'll just tell them. I never want to be that person leaving the room that becomes a, kind of, you know, a burden.... oh, it just fucking freaks me out. So-
- CWChris Williamson
So here's a, h- here's an interesting element of that from my industry, which is nightlife. And when I first started doing club nights and my first ever event was a big bar crawl where people would buy a T-shirt, and your T-shirt was your ticket, and there was tasks on the back like pull a pig, get off with three randoms, uh, down a drink with somebody that you don't know, like, get a piggyback from one venue to another, blah, blah, blah. And people used to write on the inside of their arms the first half of the alphabet and the second half of the alphabet, and you have to tick off the letters of the first name of the person that you'd kissed. And, you know, you're running around at the end of the night trying to find a Zara or something. And, um, I wondered, I never thought about it, but I had a conversation with a buddy who did the same thing as me, the same franchise, but down south. And he said, "Where has that culture gone? Where has that kind of sloppy, uh, uh, very, very casual transactional, uh, physical relationship shit gone for 18 to 21-year-olds, specifically in the UK, but maybe in the US as well?" And he said his idea was that because of the advent of smartphones, no one can ever do anything in public that's private anymore.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You can never get off. You can never pull a pig on a bar crawl without five videos of that now haunting you for the remainder of your days. That's going to be with you.
- SCScott Capurro
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
If you decide to do something, and that's caused people to have far more scruples about how they behave publicly. That was his idea. And that, I don't know if it's true, but it fucking makes a lot of sense.
- SCScott Capurro
It does. I think, you know, no one can wake up and say, "I don't remember what happened last night" anymore, 'cause someone will hold up a camera up to you and say, "This is gonna be-"
- CWChris Williamson
"This is exactly (laughs) what happened." Yeah, exactly.
- SCScott Capurro
So you can't have a hangover and forget about it. And I think, you know, that makes people... Like this, this k- this trial that's going on, uh, right now in the US about this, um, African American man who was hunted down by two white guys and, and murdered in the street, you know, the people, they don't just have witnesses, 'cause witnesses are tricky and, you know, trials can never really trust witnesses 'cause people see all sorts of things differently. But a lot of it's on film. (laughs) So, the guys themselves filmed it. It's why, you know, Hitler's still with us, you know. The big H is still so popular. 'Cause it was really the first kind of fas- it was a fascist revival, but really the first international battle that was filmed. The wars before that, we're not so sure. But Hitler put everything on cinema, and, um, that's why he's still such a big draw, I think. And so people see all that and think, you know, "I gotta b- I gotta keep my job, and I can't keep my job if they see me doing what you described." 'Cause self-masturbation can be, like also what you said, can be perceived as, as less casual and less fun and flirtatious, but you can perceive it as being misogynistic or racist. So you gotta be careful. Like if you-
- CWChris Williamson
Interpretation's always open like that, right?
- SCScott Capurro
I mean, no one can say, I mean, you know, there are so many things that people feel they can't reveal about themselves 'cause it might, like, it might be seen as a preference, which is racism, right? If you have a preference, you're racist right away. So, you gotta be careful. I mean, um, I don't have these boundaries in h- in the way that I work and what I do on stage. But I certainly don't... There's a few things I won't say anymore. I never thought I'd say that, but it's true.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- SCScott Capurro
'Cause you'll lose them for too long. Well, I don't drop the N-bomb on stage anymore. I used to, and there's a purpose behind it. And I don't drop the P-bomb anymore. Because you'll just lose them for too long. Before, you could lose them for about 30 seconds and then they'd recover, and I could manage that. But now they'll just completely stop listening. So, there's no point.
- CWChris Williamson
Talking about Rogan, he's got a new bit in his standup show where he's talking about why he'll still use the word retard but he won't use the N-word.
- SCScott Capurro
(laughs)
- 1:02:35 – 1:04:16
Where to Find Scott
- SCScott Capurro
...
- CWChris Williamson
Scott Capuro, ladies and gentlemen. If people want to keep up to date with whatever you're doing or harass you online, where should they go?
- SCScott Capurro
My website. It's all about me, me, me. So all the information is there. It's just my name, scottcapuro.com. Listen, thanks for calling. It's great to see you.
- CWChris Williamson
I know.
- SCScott Capurro
By Austin. I've ... It's been really fun to do this. I forgot that we were doing it, and, and then I remembered how much I wanted to, and now I'm really glad we did.
- CWChris Williamson
Me too, man. Me too.
- SCScott Capurro
So ...
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, when are you back in the UK? Are you back any time soon?
- SCScott Capurro
January 19th. My husband's craving to get back. He is so sick of this country (laughs) . Um, yeah. So we're gonna ... Yeah. January 19th. But I'll, and I'll see you there.
- CWChris Williamson
Yes, you will do.
- SCScott Capurro
Good luck to your ...
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, Thanksgiving.
- SCScott Capurro
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
Enjoy Thanksgiving tomorrow.
- SCScott Capurro
Well, thank you. You too. Are you stuffing anything, or are you gonna be waited on?
- CWChris Williamson
Scott, come on. We've managed to, we've managed to get through-
- SCScott Capurro
Are you cooking anything? Are you being waited on?
- CWChris Williamson
No, of course not. Of cour- I'm just ... Yeah. I'm just ... I'm turning up. I'm the ... I don't know what I am. I'm the token Brit at the table.
- SCScott Capurro
Don't you wanna learn how to cook? The tur- turkey, it's so fun. It's the be- You feel like a child.
- CWChris Williamson
Are you doing it? Are you doing it tomorrow?
- SCScott Capurro
Oh yeah, so easy to do. You make the stuffing in 10 minutes, you shove it in, you put it in the oven, and you leave it. You don't ... You never open the oven again. And four hours later, it pops out. And people are so impressed you've done almost nothing. It's great. You, you will-
- CWChris Williamson
I'll have to ring you... I'll FaceTime you tomorrow if I'm struggling.
- SCScott Capurro
All right.
- CWChris Williamson
All right.
- SCScott Capurro
Let me know.
- CWChris Williamson
Catch you later on set.
- SCScott Capurro
Cranberry sauce. Send it.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SCScott Capurro
Have a great one. Thank you, Chris. Nice to see you.
- CWChris Williamson
What's happening, people? Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, then press here for a selection of the best clips from the podcast over the last few weeks. And don't forget to subscribe. Peace.
Episode duration: 1:04:16
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