EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,014 words- 0:00 – 5:28
The Search for Heaven on Earth
- CWChris Williamson
You asked why it is that I wanted to speak to you, uh, and that you were surprised that I would. I, I can't believe that you're surprised that I would want to speak to you. Uh, I think, I think the stuff that I've learned about you and your work is... I think you're phenomenal. I think you're absolutely wonderful. I think the idea of working collaboratively to help women get more out of men, as in, treat men in a way that they want to be treated, that causes them to behave in the best way that they can-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... to serve their partner, to create this alchemy that ever refines and transcends and includes, I think is wonderful. I think it's fantastic.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Thank you. (sighs) It's, um, it's a privilege.
- CWChris Williamson
What is it... What is it that you're trying to achieve with your work?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Heaven on Earth. Love. People choosing love, again and again and again over everything else. It's probably the easiest way to describe it.
- CWChris Williamson
There's a lot of different routes to Heaven on Earth.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
What's the one that you've chosen?
- AAAlison Armstrong
(sighs) Um... Oh boy, there's so many ways to go at this. I would say the one that I've chosen has to do with paradigms. Exposing paradigms, revealing paradigms, reverse engineering. How the way that a paradigm... every paradigm makes certain things easy, simple, obvious-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... and makes other things impossible. And if the results that you want are impossible in the paradigm you're operating in, get a new one. Invent a new one. And, and even trade them out. (laughs) Like, "Oh, this gives me access. Okay, let's go there." And w- since I started studying men in February of 1991 when I found out I was bringing out the worst in y'all, which was great news. I don't know if you've seen that in any of the content you've watched. This is the best news. Can I swear?
- CWChris Williamson
You can swear as much as you'd like.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Oh, good. We have a policy, um, about swearing, and that is that we do. But- (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) We are pro-swearing. We are proudly pro-swearing.
- AAAlison Armstrong
We're pro-swearing. But, but only because you can't separate truth from transformation. If you water down the truth, you water down transformation.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, and you are molesting the truth by getting in the way by limiting people's ability to use language?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Well, y- y- mmm. You water it down, you water it down. And I'm all about potency.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And so precision and potency. I think like an engineer, so reverse engineering, and then depending on the result you want, like, there's s- such a thing as too potent for a particular result.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's too refined, too condensed.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Y- yep.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. I love the word precision.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Or there's... Yeah. Or there's, um... In some cases I... Like I gen- I'll generalize. I'll, I'll generalize and I'll swing the pendram, the pendulum so people can find themselves.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So it's purposely imprecise.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Right?
- CWChris Williamson
Mmm. Yeah, the best songs do that as well.
- AAAlison Armstrong
The best...
- 5:28 – 14:53
Are Men Really As Simple As They Seem?
- AAAlison Armstrong
- CWChris Williamson
Are men easy to please?
- AAAlison Armstrong
(sighs) How rigorously are you using the word please?
- CWChris Williamson
However it lands for you.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Okay. All right. We'll go in then. So, there's please and there's pleasure. And when men talk about pleasing women, they're talking about causing pleasure. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Thank goodness. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
That's how you mean it. For women, which I assert is from being the smaller and weaker gender, um, by virtue of the hormones that kick in at 21 days of gestation if you're destined to have ovaries, or sometimes I call them undescended testicles, um, we're just a- we're just always gonna be that way. The physical strength is a function of testosterone. And, and so because of that, and the, if you think of millennia of survival mostly depended on physical strength. Earth is a physical paradigm. There's physical dangers. It's rrr, ne- need the brawn. And so, it, and it's lasted all this time. And I, I mean, you know, I've, I've talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of women. And, and I would call it a human instinct, except for I, what I've been working on for about the last five years is how many survival instincts are consistent in humans, but they're not human. Like, we sh- we share survival instincts with herd and pack animals, with herd, h- herd our prey, pack are predators. So many of our behaviors are consistent with that, including status. Like, the status determined survival. You got to, you got to find it, build it, protect it, find your place that you want to be in the herd or the pack that's consistent with the amount of accountability that you want. (laughs) Most people think of status as power, but ultimately it's accountability, the level of s- survival. And so we have all these, all these behaviors, and pleasing is one of them. And for women, we're terrified of being displeasing. We, we s- we strive to please and to avoid displeasing, and we're watching you so closely, so closely to see what's pleasing and what's not pleasing. The cave woman within is al- has been tracking you since the moment you walked through the door (laughs) and you laughed at something. It's like, "Oh, okay, he laughed at that." Like, just, like, noticing.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And you laughed when I laugh, when I... And then I went and told you about the eyelashes. So it's, it's, it's a constant. It's a... You could think of it as a, it's a macro program, and it's running in the background. "How about now? How about now? Is he pleased? Is he pleased? Oh, was he displeased just then?" And we're s- we'll actually act upon it. Your expressions, your gestures, your tone, tone of voice are cues to us to how to change and adapt so that you'll save me, 'cause, because we don't know who men really are, we think you're only gonna save the woman you're pleased by.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And if the tiger arrives now, (laughs) and we've just had an argument, right? "Oh, shit. I'm, I'm gonna die." That's what it seems like. And so one of the things this makes us really sensitive to is preferences. We, we just, sh- we're just a suck for what your preferences are. And we reme- we remember them, and we think we're paying attention to your preferences because we love you. And so if you really loved me, you would be paying attention to mine. You would remember which drink I chose, including that when I chose the other one, I chose the blueberry, right? And, (laughs) and it's, it's, I mean, it's just one of a thousand ways that we expect a man to be like a woman, that you'd be tracking my preferences. You would hea- you would hear all the hints a- as requests. You would hear criticism as a request, a complaint as a request. "Uh, why didn't you do that?" As a request that would cause you to act, and when it doesn't, we draw all these conclusions that would be what would be true for us. "You didn't act upon that, so you must not care about me." It never occurs to us, "It wasn't actionable." (laughs) That comment did not speak to the action command center at all and has nothing to do with how you feel about me. So when you say please, are men easy to please?
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Um, there are women who've spent their entire lives trying to please men, and you're not that h- hard to please. It's just not worth much. You don't... The point in a man's life for what he cares most about is being pleased? (laughs) That's like all the hunting's done, all the building's done, all the accomplishing's done, all the animals have been caught and killed and butchered, so now we're gonna pay attention to what type of beer do we want.But it's... That comes after everything that men are driven to do. Everyone's... We've created everything, we've protected everybody, we provided for everybody. "Oh, yeah. No, I'd rather have a Dos Equis." It's so tiny the meaning of being pleased to a man, but yet women are zeroed in on being pleasing and then they miss the substance, they miss... (sighs) I mean, would a man rather be pleased or empowered?
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Would a man rather be pleased or admired? Would a man rather be pleased or accepted?
- CWChris Williamson
Would the same not be true for women if you offered them that task, that, uh, that option?
- AAAlison Armstrong
I wish women could be that clear. I mean, that was easy for you, right? That was, that was an easy... Those were all easy.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So easy.
- CWChris Williamson
All my chips are on one side.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So obvious, yes. Unfortunately, we... Because of the meaning we attach to it, we want it all. We want you to strive to meet my preferences and my needs and honor my values without me really talking to you about what that would look like. (laughs) And of course, the mischief maker of all, meet all my expectations without, um, me having to tell you anything.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a surprise that anybody is able to have a functioning relationship at all.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Well, I've been accused of laughing too much. Do you know, i- in an interview, I... "Why is she laughing so much?" I have to laugh. I, I mean, we have a principle in our company. We have a sense of humor about it all. I have to because we're doomed. We, we... A, a surprise? It's a miracle. (stutters) We have opposing instincts. We, we seek... The way I seek safety and you're likely to seek security, you... Men only use the word s- safety when they're talking about, "Okay, my family's safe," or, "You're safe to talk to." That's what men will say, "She's safe to talk to." The rest of the time, you don't pay attention to safety. You pay attention to being secure, and it's fact-based. It's not a feeling.
- 14:53 – 25:14
Why Safety Shapes Women’s Choices
- AAAlison Armstrong
- CWChris Williamson
Can you delineate between safety and security for me?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Some people would use them interchangeably, but I pay a lot of attention to the words men use. And, and my... As I just said, I've only heard men use the word safe in regards to "safe to talk to" and "My family's safe. Everybody's safe." Like the fires in Los Angeles. "How are you?" "Everyone's safe." And, and, and security is based on a... There's usually facts involved in security. "Yeah, I'm secure. I've got this much money in the bank. I've got this track record. I'm respected by these people. I have... These, these people owe me favors." (laughs) "What are my connections? What are all my resources?" Right? "This is my influence. Okay, we're good. We're good. We're on track. This is gonna turn out." And, and women who use the word safe a lot... And w- It's hard to convey, but we're always paying attention to safety. It's a, it's a constant. It's one of the... Um, estrogen creates a different kind of vision in women than in men. H- Hunting vision versus gathering vision. And part of that gatherer's vision is always monitoring safety. And for us and for children, for example, we're constantly monitoring safety. And it's a feel safe. It's not so much fact-based. It's a feel safe. And I remember, um, my late husband, when he (laughs) came to our Understanding Women course and he started to get it. Living, living with me didn't always have him get it, even though he was my, he was my prime guinea pig, right? And whenever we'd blow up the lab, he... When it was all cleaned up, he'd say, "This is gonna be in a workshop."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And, and I'd say, "If, if you're willing..." and he would say, "If it'll make a difference." And, oh, he got so much acknowledgement. We did sit in the back at the Understanding Women workshop, and I'm teaching men to understand women, and the women are learning to understand themselves at the same time. They, they didn't know this about themselves. It took about... I'd been studying men, I think, for about 12 years by the time I realized I could translate a woman into a man's reality. And, um... But he, he got it, and he got this thing, like... (laughs) Greg, Greg is/was a car guy. Right? He l- left me three convertibles (laughs) and included... Including his favorite, the Porsche-... and, um, and so moving in and out of traffic and that, that was just fun for him. A- but when he found out about women's peripheral vision, and that when he would, like, move into a space, it occurs like, "That car's gonna hit me-"
- CWChris Williamson
Hm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"... on the passenger side." Or there's studies that show the faster an object's going, the bigger the difference between a man's ability to track it and a woman's ability to track it.
- CWChris Williamson
(inhales deeply) That's interesting.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yeah. So, so he would be (laughs) ... He would be approaching and just slide over... I remember we were coming back... We were... Just come out of Las Vegas towards L.A., and he'd slide over and I'm sitting there and, uh, I'm having this terror reaction and I'm trying to fight it with facts. "He's never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. (laughs) He's never hit a truck." Like, "Let's be factual. He's never hit a truck. Never. In all these years, he's never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. He's never hit a truck. (laughs) He's never hit a truck." (laughs) While my body is going, "We're gonna die." (laughs) Ay, yi, yi. So I'm not sure how we got there, but where do you wanna go now?
- CWChris Williamson
Safety and s- Safety and s-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Safety and security.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yeah. So, so if I'm pleasing you, then I'm feeling safe. But if you have-
- CWChris Williamson
Because there is th- there's no way that somebody... There's no way that a man who is pleased by you would not also look out for your safety?
- AAAlison Armstrong
(sighs) We think that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. That's the...
- AAAlison Armstrong
We think that, but it's... There are so many things that women trust too much, including trust, but one of the things we trust too much is connection. So we feel safe when we feel connected, when we're resonating, when we're like, "Okay, you're with me. W- we got this thing going on." Like the first time you went like that-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... and it was like, (gasps) the b- the reaction in my body to you doing that was, "Okay."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"Everything's gonna be all right. Okay."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"We're connecting."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(breathes deeply) But again, we're-
- CWChris Williamson
I didn't do it for you, but-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... I'm glad, I'm glad it had that effect on you.
- 25:14 – 31:03
The Twelve Foundations of True Compatibility
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
What are the 12 things that people should decide whether the relationship is compatible or not based on?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Oh, I wouldn't say they're shoulds. Um, it's what I've learned men look for-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... that makes someone the right person. Um, okay, so we've got... Ay, ay, ay. Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay (laughs) So many things to put pins in. Okay, I'm gonna rattle these off without explanation, which is very hard for me to do. I... Getting to the point, like being concise, it, to m- to me it's like, you sound cool-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... like, when you say these things. Um, but it doesn't serve people.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's done.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Doesn't necessarily give them access to something. But I'm gonna try anyway. Okay, let's see if I can remember them all. It's a long time since I led or watched that course. Um, okay. So one thing, let's just start here, doesn't emasculate him too much. Too much changes over time. Hmm. In y- your stage... See? I can't.
- CWChris Williamson
Ah, you're doing it.
- AAAlison Armstrong
I can't!
- CWChris Williamson
You're doing it. Come on, let's... Alison, let's move on to number two.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Okay. S-
- CWChris Williamson
God, you only got one in.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
We're one-twelfth of the way there.
- AAAlison Armstrong
I know, I know.
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking 8%.
- AAAlison Armstrong
But it changes.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- AAAlison Armstrong
What's not too much to a prince-
- CWChris Williamson
No, no. Stop it.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... is way too much to a king.
- CWChris Williamson
Stop it. Stop it.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Stop it.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Okay, stop it.
- CWChris Williamson
Doesn't emasculate him too much.
- AAAlison Armstrong
This... Too much. She likes him. Genuinely likes him. There's volumes on that. Um, ah. Uh. Sex. There's enough communication in sex, there's enough exploration in sex that he thinks that he could do this with this one person (laughs) for the rest of his life. (laughs) There's enough variety right here between us. Okay, wait.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 31:03 – 40:02
The Four Traits That Make Women Irresistibly Charming
- AAAlison Armstrong
yes.
- CWChris Williamson
The four most charming qualities-
- AAAlison Armstrong
In a woman.
- CWChris Williamson
... in a woman.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Number one, self-confidence. It's hilarious because I've had panels of men say, "It's probably different for other men, but for me it's self-confidence." And they all say self-confidence.
- CWChris Williamson
Hm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Um, I've unpacked that for a while. What does that mean? Uh, yeah, like about 20 years. Uh, the second would be authenticity. And men almost always use the word courage. When she has the courage to be direct, when she has the courage to speak up, when she has the courage to be who she really is, when she has the courage to say what she needs, when she has the courage to share her dreams and authenticity in... And so much of being a woman is about pretense. Seriously, we're taught to pretend. Push... Y- What- what was it called the, the, that bra? (laughs) The wonder bra. Um, laugh at jokes that you don't think are funny. I mean, so much of being a woman, we're literally taught to pretend in order to be pleasing, and this is where we miss the mark. Uh, men would much rather have authenticity than someone who's pretending in order to be pleasing.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Now, will you take it? Yeah, okay. It's, it's better than nothing, but not, not worth a whole lot. Um, so self-confidence, authenticity, passion. Passion, which is... It ends up in the domain of marriage as well. She's... The way that men put it is, "She's got to have something outside of me, outside of us that feeds her, so she's bringing something to us."
- CWChris Williamson
Hm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Um, can I go down this way a little bit? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
It doesn't seem to matter what she's passionate about, as long as there's a passion. A shared passion, though, is... How cool is that, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Um, and women wish that men would listen to them talk longer, but they don't know that how long you can listen to us talk depends on how we're being. If we're complaining... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AAAlison Armstrong
... give me-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... give me about 30 seconds. If we're talking about something we're passionate about, and it's actually been measured that, that being with a woman who's y- t- obviously... I- I've had a show of hands. Men spend two days with me and I, like, go, "Okay, how many of you, you have a greater sense of well-being than when you arrived?" They all raise their hands. It's an effect of a woman being passionate.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
You guys, actually it can be measured. You'll have a testosterone spike-
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... which is the well-being hormone. And, um, so yeah. Women's got to have a passion-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... and be passionate, and it's really cute how men talk about, "Yeah, my, my wife collects ceramic cows."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AAAlison Armstrong
"I don't know why, but-" (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Who needs ceramics?
- AAAlison Armstrong
"... it's her passion, so I'll spend my time off buying her (laughs) a ceramic cow." Like, it's... It becomes worth it. Um, and then the f- the fourth one, the fourth one is the most difficult for women because, and they don't know it's so difficult, because self-confidence, authenticity and passion all shift how a man's being. And, and it's the opposite of, of sexual attraction, which self-confidence crosses over. (laughs) But then there's shiny hair, which is an indicator of being fertile. There's a shapely body, all kinds of definitions of that. Men have no control over their imprint of the shape that gets them. Um, sensuality, being present to the pleasure your own senses are bringing you, which causes men to think of the pleasures (laughs) that they would like to bring you. And then the most, the most is sexual energy, and it's the... The way I used to say it was, it's the energy a woman puts out when she wants to put out. (laughs) Zht, zht, zht, zht.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 40:02 – 52:04
Why Men Thrive on Being Needed
- CWChris Williamson
You say that appreciation is a form of oxygen-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... for men. How, how important is it for women to seem impressed or giddy or appreciative or receptive of their partners?
- AAAlison Armstrong
(sighs) Well, I call it peacocking. Um, I remember when I realized that my soon-to-be boyfriend was doing it, um, 'cause I'd, I'd, I was with my husband for 20 years, so ay-yi-yi. I had to relearn everything after he died, and, uh, so a man is attracted to a woman. He thinks she's special. There's some... You guys are so perceptive. You can see it across a room. "Ooh. Who's that? Ooh, she's special." Right? Now there's something at stake. Now there's a nervousness. Now being turned down, ouch, right? And so he'll try to impress. But if she's not impressed, you guys know if you can't impress her, your chances of making her happy-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... that's number ten. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
We're gonna end up-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... excavating the remaining two of the-
- AAAlison Armstrong
The remaining-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yeah. He knows he can make her happy.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Um, huge, huge. Men marry men they- women they know they can make happy. Men don't marry women that they love but they know they can't make her happy. They, um, if they can't impress her, like, "Oh, th- this is a nonstarter." If she's not impressed, which is, like, this much-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... how am I ever gonna make her happy?
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I mean, I certainly know for me, the sense of being impressive is a wonderful motivator.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Do more of that.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Good boy points.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Points. Men play for points. And it's not, I don't know, good boy... Good boy would be minor, but it could be, you know, patronizing or matronizing, right? But, but good job, good job, or wow, or... There's a... Have you, have you listened to or read The Queen's Code?
- CWChris Williamson
Yes, yeah, read it.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So, um, do you remember the line in there where Mike says to his wife, Karen, "I'm always trying to impress you?" (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- AAAlison Armstrong
And then she's like, "Then why don't you take out the trash?" (laughs) And he's like, "That would impress you?" (laughs) Well, that's her job. I mean, pleasing a man is, is, is tiny, like we talked about in the beginning, but to be impressed by him?
- CWChris Williamson
Huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
He would so much rather that you were impressed by him than he was pleased by you. It, y- y- you know, we're getting towards the bullseye here, not like (laughs) the outer edges.
- 52:04 – 1:02:57
Are Independent Women Emasculating Men?
- AAAlison Armstrong
- CWChris Williamson
The desire of men to feel needed and useful, uh, I think is really interesting. Um, and it is certainly coming into conflict with a modern environment that is teaching men... Uh, teaching women that, uh, men are optional, as opposed to, uh, mandatory investments-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... in that way. I wonder whether career women who have spent years cultivating masculine energy in their job-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... but also want to be looked after make it a, a difficult situation-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... for, for the guys. Because women can behave in a hyper-independent way, like you don't need looking after, so they get treated as such by men. So the very thing that they want is the very thing that they signal they don't need. And if men think, "Well, I've tried to do these things and she didn't really seem that impressed, and she's adamant that she's got it herself in any case, and she doesn't really need me all that much, I'll just stop offering it."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
I saw this, um... I saw this really fascinating Instagram reel a few months ago that said, uh, in a relationship, men start off treating a woman the way they want to be treated, and after a while treat the woman the way that they have been treated by her.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And this, like, "I want, I want, I want, but I'm also really trainable. I'm super, super trainable. And after a while, this is what I've been crafted into. That was what I wanted, and this is what it seems like you wanted."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, yeah, this challenge that women have here of, uh... blending a culture that says you should be as independent and reliant, uh, self-reliant as possible with, "Men need to be needed. They need to feel impressive and admired and useful."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And you go, "Well, if I'm just optional... If I'm a, a, a, a ketchup packet on your value meal of life-"
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"... that doesn't make me feel very good."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm. (sighs) okay. You just said volumes. The place that you started... If a woman h- has the attitude, "What do I need men for? (scoffs) What do I need men for?" My assignment is answer that question. Don't ask it. Answer it. So what do I need men for? It's another treasure hunt. What do I need men for?It's a great thing to answer, and to look, and to actually see there are answers. If I'm not proving I can do everything, what do I need men for? And... (pause) I've done a lot of informal surveys. We used to, wa- I was leading workshops 24 to 26 times a year for 20 years. And so, I'd end up in mostly all women for a very long time, and then co-ed, and I'd do these surveys, and I'd, I'd ask the women, "Okay, so think about how many women that, that you, that you know are for you. They're your friends. How many women does it take to make you feel as safe as one man you know is for you?" And I've watched them, and they're thinking and thinking and thinking, and then they start to shake their heads. There is no number of women that makes a woman feel as safe as one man that she knows is for her. And this is why this thing we were talking about, sexual attraction versus charmed and enchanted, if a woman is leading with sexuality and bringing out take energy in men-
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... they're either scary or she's sure she can manipulate them. But she's still not gonna feel safe. Where if he's charmed and enchanted by her, which causes a man to care, which is... You guys closely guard caring. Something else I learned from men, i- you know it's your biggest expenditure of energy. And it, and it's, has this paradox which is another thing I love about you all. You're the walking resolution of paradoxes. All the time.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Pe- women think men are simple. Many men say men are simple. No. (laughs) No. You... N- not caring can feel like freedom. "Ha, I don't care. I don't care. I'm free. I'm free." But not caring can turn into, "I have no purpose. My life is shit. It's not for anything." Right? And then men have said, "When a woman needs something from me, I have a purpose."
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
It's just, like, there's something r- really beautiful about it, you know? And I, I think of it like this, you were making those other points, I think of it like this. I call it the- I call it the stairway to heaven. Providing, receiving, providing, receiving, providing, receiving, in, in this beautiful dance if we're allowing for it, if we're feeding it. And you asked about appreciation. Appreciation is, it's feeding. It's feeding providers, and providers are grateful to be received.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"You let me." I asked a man once, "Why do you do so much for me?" He said, "Because you let me." (laughs) Oh, women aren't very good at letting men these days. Haven't been for a long time. Letting men provide what is, what they're compelled to provide. (laughs) And so, (sighs) there's so much that's cattywampus and... But the addictive thing is such tiny changes make such a huge difference. And, like, I was teaching a course in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. And we had just done that part about how many women make you feel as safe as one man. And this, and we were, we were com- we were finishing the workshop and p- people were sharing from their seats. And this young woman took a microphone and she announced to the whole room, she said, "I'm gay. So what that means, men, is it doesn't matter what you do, I'm not gonna fall in love with you." But I want to say that still what she said about one of you making me feel s- safer than any number of women is true for me.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And then on the other side, this big man stood up, took the microphone up and said, "It'd be fair to call me a redneck. And my daughter's marrying a woman." And he started to cry. "But now I know from what that young lady just said that I still have something to give her." (laughs) Big tears coming down his red face and ach. Yes, yes, yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- 1:02:57 – 1:14:42
Surrender vs. Submission: The Trust Dilemma
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, it's interesting, the direction of the arrow of causation betr-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... between these two things. So I saw a tweet-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... a while ago-
- AAAlison Armstrong
Are you trying to jumpstart me?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, I am. I'm riling you up.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, you haven't gotten enough caffeine yet. Uh-
- AAAlison Armstrong
The direction of causation?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, like what-
- AAAlison Armstrong
From someone who's obsessed with cause and effect-
- CWChris Williamson
Of course.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... the direction of causation? Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, so I saw a- I saw a tweet a while ago that said, uh, "Women love to submit, you just have to be him." And I think the suggestion here is that a woman's inability to be submissive or soften up or show needs is because their partner isn't doing something right. And it seems like you've kind of left both sides open a little bit at the moment, that, uh, femininity is a gift from men to women, that that is something that occurs because we are able to protect and provide and make them feel safe, maybe a little bit secure, but mostly safe.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
But also-
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... women's-
- AAAlison Armstrong
I'm sorry, wh- I, as soon as you said maybe a little bit secure, I was like, oh yeah, that's what this is about.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Put a, put a ring on it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, of course.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Then I'm secure. You promised I'll be your friend.
- CWChris Williamson
That's a big s- that's a big statistic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, that it's men's, uh, job to, it's their gift, the femininity. I'm showing up, I'm protecting, I'm providing, et cetera, et cetera. But also that the receptivity of women, the preparedness to say, "I- I do need you."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
"I want to need you, I want to be able to open up, I want to soften."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, I don't think ... I, uh, uh, that, that tweet got to me a little bit, "Women love to submit, you just need to be him."
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm-hmm.
- 1:14:42 – 1:24:08
When Your Needs Begin to Break the Relationship
- AAAlison Armstrong
Oh, then there's this other part that you brought up, needs. (sighs) I've studied so long, needs. Uh, when I, when I first found out I was bringing out the worst in men, right, and went looking, um, what I was sure of was that men either didn't care what I needed or they were actively withholding it. Like, to get me. This was really my behavior in my first marriage, (laughs) actively withholding. (sighs) Oh, well. We have our son, (laughs) who's just, like, about six months younger than you. Um, and, and then I found out men do care, really. They care about a woman. They care about what she needs, right? One of the 12 things, he thinks he can give her what he thinks she needs. And, and I thought, "Okay, cool. They, they want us to give what we need. Oh, big problem. They don't know what we need. They think they know what we need." (laughs) There's things they think we need, and men will project onto women their own needs. This is how men project orgasms onto women. (laughs) Please, could I just go to sleep? (laughs) It's late. I don't need that. (laughs) So, so okay, so they... Men want us to have what we need. They're willing to do what it takes to give us what we need. But we have to tell them what we need. And when I started teaching women that, they're like, "But what if I don't know what I need?" And then I figured out a way for them to figure out what they need, which is awesome. It's, like, so logical, but well, fi- at first, figure out what you wanna be. What quality do you wanna be? Well, then, what do you need in order to naturally be that quality? It's actually really s-... It's like magic. You can be anything you wanna be. So then I s-... You know, I was doing this for years, and then this woman stopped me on a, on a break and said, (sighs) "Uh, something I need from my boyfriend, but he's not giving it to me." And I said, "Have you told him?" (laughs) She said, "No." And I, and I said, "Why haven't you told him?" And she... That was a really fun snort. That was awesome. (laughs) That was such a great snort. And-
- CWChris Williamson
I've been practicing.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... and you were, you were po-... Like, in a, like, like, right there in the microphone.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So, so I said, "Why haven't you told him what you need?" That's what I've been... Uh, I mean, I started teaching women how to tell men what you need in 1995.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And m- men thought it was ridiculous. How could you have a nine-step process? We're simple. And then I walked them through the nine-step process. They validated every part of the process. What would go wrong, uh, if they didn't do that? And you would've encountered it in The Queen's Code, chapter six. And so this, this woman, she's... When I asked her, "Why haven't you have i-... Why haven't you told him what you need?" And she said, "'Cause I can't get over what I think about myself for needing that."
- CWChris Williamson
Oh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
It's like, "What?" And it, it led to this whole s- study I call the point of view. I identified six different points of view that men and women have about what it means to need a particular thing in the first place. And that what it means to need something in the first place is what causes this lockdown. Don't tell. Don't tell. And there's... Can I, can I show you? It'll take your imagination. So imagine a, a s- a spectrum, and on this end of the spectrum, having a need is weak, empathetic. And then moving this way, it, it might be selfish and self-centered. Or next over would be it's unevolved and immature. (laughs) A grownup wouldn't need that. A transformed person wouldn't need that, right? And then it gets to justified and reasonable. "Hm, yeah, I could see why I would need that. That's reasonable."And then there's bothersome and annoying. Ugh. Ugh. And this is here for a reason. And the end is entitled and deserved. I deserve that from you. Right? And I was thinking about this before you arrived. I was thinking, entitled. Entitled is a perfect word. I'm entitled because of my title. You owe me that. I am your girlfriend. You owe me that. I, I just did a course on how even when they agree that you deserve it, it doesn't make it happen. But we think that. If I think I deserve it and you think I deserve it, now it's gonna happen. Mm-mm. So what we saw, and it was so fun 'cause you were talking about songs earlier. A- Alanis contributed to this. (laughs) She was part of the weekend where I was distinguishing it with a bunch of people. And that basically what happens is wherever you are mostly live in regards to your needs, something has to work its way all the way over. Justified and reasonable might be expressed 'cause that's an okay thing to need, but most things have to work all the way over to, "I'm now convinced I deserve this, and I've earned it, and you owe me. And I'm gonna demand it." And so there are a lot of needs that don't make the whole trip, and so they never get told. They never get asked for. They might, they might break the surface, like the tip over there, in a complaint. But a complaint is not an ask. Are you with me so far?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
So then serving groups of women, and then later on serving, oh, classrooms of men, most women will fall in their needs are justified and reasonable or entitled and deserved. The few that are bothersome and annoying, they just ignore it, ignore it, ignore it. But then when they're dead in a ditch, they're pissed at the people who should've foreseen that. I mean, it's, it's really, really interesting dynamic. There's a lotta high performers here, and then, and a lotta high performers here 'cause they gotta keep earning what they need, right? So then asking of men, like, and... 'Cause we do this whole thing for them to figure out and find out themselves, and we got a whole grade of what they say and all that stuff. About half the men ended up in their, their primary reaction to having a need is that it's weak and pathetic. They just don't need. Y- y'all are like Superman, whose... Have you ever seen a Superman movie where he ate?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- AAAlison Armstrong
No. Slept?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- AAAlison Armstrong
No. Dude, you guys think you should be able to do anything and everything without sleeping, without eating, without being appreciated, without having enough sex, without... (yawns) Right? And so needing anything, it means you're weak and pathetic. And-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... don't dare. The warrior's never gonna reveal a weakness. Never, ever. It'll be used against you. You, you, you guys are... That's another thing women are pissed at you about. You won't reveal yourself. Well, of course you won't reveal yourself. It'll be used against you. (laughs) You're built to not reveal anything that can be used against you.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Which is why men talk about what doesn't matter to them.
- CWChris Williamson
There's a nobility in stifling desires. I think that's how men see it. There's a... Maybe not desires is quite the right word, but there's certainly a nobility in suppressing what you need.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yeah, it could be thought that way, that it's nobility. But if you just confront getting it out of your mouth, you'll, uh, you'll see the fear.
- CWChris Williamson
(gasps)
- AAAlison Armstrong
Like, no. (laughs) Don't, don't say that. It'll be used against you. And it's, and it's one of the things women want men to open up, but we always use it against you.
- CWChris Williamson
How?
- AAAlison Armstrong
You, you're, you're trainable. We'll teach you to not open
- 1:24:08 – 1:36:22
How Women Accidentally Teach Men to Shut Down
- AAAlison Armstrong
up. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
How? How do women teach men not to open up?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Well, there's several ways. One is that you tell me a truth about you, and it's, oh, it's so yummy. Oh, he told me something really special about him. Who can I tell? So for a woman that an admirable man, a strong man, a cool man revealed something to me makes me important. Status. Herd instinct. But it's only worth something if I can tell someone else.
- CWChris Williamson
Hash it in.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yes. So we'll, you'll reveal to us, and we'll reveal to them. It's a betrayal from a man's point of view. That's a betrayal. But you'll find out that we did it 'cause it'll come back around. The end with revealing intimate information. The other thing we'll do is we'll use it against you. So (laughs) I, I used to be really cautious, right? In 1995 when we started a workshop, it was called Celebrating Men, Satisfying Women. And I called it that to, to offend people who weren't up for it.
- CWChris Williamson
I imagine you did.
- AAAlison Armstrong
To... Yeah, to just turn them away. Celebrating men? They're pigs. They're dogs. They're fill in the blank. But every once in a while, I would be like, "You can do that? I wanna do that."Right? And they, "Okay, come on in." It was limited to 12 women. They were so scary at the time. So I was really careful for a long time and then as I practiced natural horsemanship and learned how to hold my space and then I started poking the bear. Like, so I- I- I did a tele-class called Using Anger to Get What You Need, 'cause I wanted to attract all the women who used anger to get what you need, or wanted to use anger to get what you need. It was a rug pull. It doesn't work. And (laughs) but I brought them in so I could pull the rug. Well, then I did a g- a webinar called Why Men Can't be Trusted to Tell the Truth. "Yeah! Why can't they be trusted to tell the truth?" And some of my graduates were just incensed, "Alison Armstrong said this about men?" So we sent out an email to all the men and it, the subject line was- was, "We still have your back." (laughs) And I told them about the webinar and that the subtitle of the webinar could be How Women Teach Honest Men It's Not Worth It.
- CWChris Williamson
Huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And, 'cause what'll happen is a man will tell the truth, and he'll tell a truth that's been true for him maybe for as long as he can remember. For as long as he can remember, or it might be a newer truth. It's only been the last couple years, or last few months, but it's the truth and he tells it to her and she's upset about that. "You shouldn't think that. You shouldn't feel that way. No! That's wrong." And- and because of how women are wired, we're, to be upset is to be displeased. Ooh. Don't have anybody be upset. So women believe, they're sure of it, Chris, they're- they're positive. They're sure that if you know how upset I am about what you just told me is true for you, you will change your truth. That you will, just like I would've. You will change your truth. No, men are smarter than that. There was no problem with that truth until it came out (laughs) of their mouth, until they told her. It was fine as long as it wasn't said. So this is how men are literally taught, trained as you said, to not tell the truth. "She doesn't need to know that. She doesn't need to know that. She doesn't need to know that." But w- women cause that and- and ev- another thing I recorded called Why Men Lie, Why Women Lie, and you know how I like to drill down, drill down, drill down, and basic survival instincts for all s- species; fight, flight, freeze. We have reactions. And I discovered there's fight lying, there's freeze lying (laughs) , there's flight lying. "I gotta go." (laughs) And, but as I drilled down into it and my kids were, had been young, children lie, horses lie, dogs lie. They, I- I've seen it in all of them and, and I, and I realized that lying is a basic survival reaction. It's just fundamental to survival, just lie. Puff yourself up a little bit bigger than... right? Or hold really still. I'm not here, I'm not here. Right? All these things. And, but once I saw, once I saw that lying is completely natural and truth is my second-highest value, so if lying is normal and not an aberration, how do you get honesty? You have to celebrate it. So like in my company, I have fired people for lying about lying. The problem wasn't that they lied. It was that then they lied about lying. And I've had people, (laughs) employees say, "I lied to you." "Really? What about?" And then they tell me. "Oh, that's, thank you so much for telling me. W- what, why'd you lie about that?" "Da-na-na-na-na." "Oh, is there something you need me to do different? Do something you need from me?" Like- like s- if you want the truth, you gotta celebrate the truth even if you don't like the truth. Y- the, or I would, the way I would say is a man's gotta get more points for telling the truth than he loses by what the truth is.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Way more points.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"I love you, admire you and adore you for telling me the truth. I'll get over the hurt feelings, just give me a minute." (laughs) "But thank you. Thank you for that." "Oh. You're welcome." "Huh. We keep doing this a while?" Can I tell you a funny story? We hadn't been together for very long, Dan and I. It's gonna be f- five years in a couple of months, but it, we were very new to each other and, um, and he- he knew truth is one of my highest values. Freedom is number one, which freedom and control. (exhales) And, uh, I'm a freedom...... (laughs) to set you free. (laughs) That thing we were talking about before. Strategy, strategy is a cage. So the... So we, we were getting naked. And I, and I said, I... And I realized I was self-conscious, which is, that's the last thing I want to be naked, is self-conscious. And I said, "I just got to tell you, I'm, I'm feeling, I'm, I'm feeling a little chubby, and so I'm self-conscious." And he said, he said, "You, you're not chubby." And then, like (laughs) about three seconds later, he goes, "Well, you're a little chubby, but it's all good." And I turned around and I li- (laughs) like looked at him. I was crawling over him into the bed, and I turned and looked at him, and he goes, "I remember truth is one of your love languages." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Be careful what you wish for.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(laughs) But I'd never been so tickled to be called chubby, which I've been called since I was a little girl. It, like... (laughs) Thank you for checking. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
That was funny. (laughs) Oh, it was awesome. Isn't it great just to be real, just to be out loud? It's so awesome. So yeah, so that was like the happiest time I'd ever been called chubby 'cause he was just being truthful. And Dan's superpower, which I didn't even know could be a superpower, is acceptance. He's like, he's a genius at acceptance. He's like, "Yes, I'm, I'm perfectly imperfect." (laughs) So are you. We all are perfectly imperfect. Oh, thank you. And it, it's by the way the difference in how men and women get married. When you guys decide she's the right person, it doesn't mean you think she's flawless. There, there even could be things that would be, that'd be nice if that went away. But when you choose, you, you buy the whole package. She is what she is, and she isn't what she isn't. It just seems logical, factual. That's not how, what women do. You... So you commit. You guys, when you guys commit, you commit all the time. Just like the whole thing, the whole picture, the whole package, you scoop it up. We can feel it. And I've... And women who are like, "Where's the ring? Where's the ring? Give me the ring," I'm like, "You guys, once there's a ring on that finger, he's going to be married. And he's going to start acting like a husband. And he's going to think he has a right to have veto power over dangerous things that you want to do." (laughs) Whether it's physically danger or... A man who got engaged recently, I said, "Uh-oh, you're married." He was all happy, "We got engaged." I said, "Does she know you're married?" He goes, "What do you mean?" I said, "You're all in, you're already married. The ceremony's just like for friends and family." And he's like, "Oh." And I said, "Are you more protective? Do you seem controlling? Has she accused you of being controlling?" "Yes. She's an actress, and she told me about a job she was offered, and I said, 'You can't do that movie.'" And she looked at me like I was, "What?" (laughs) And it had been the most natural thing for him to do is protecting her career, her reputation-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... who she's becoming. "No, you can't do that movie." And she was just like, "Who the hell are you that you can tell me what to do?" "I'm doing my job. I'm your husband."
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
He didn't say that, but that's what he thought.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh-huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Women commit one acceptance at a time. One acceptance at a time. I know women who had a wedding 30 years ago, and they've hardly accepted anything. They've been trying to change him for 30 years. They're, they're not actually married.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Women don't understand how men be married. We're a team now. It's us. We're a team. We're a team about everything, aren't we? "You don't do that right." (laughs) "You can't be on my team." It's, oh, breaks my heart. (sighs)
- 1:36:22 – 1:56:54
The Hidden Triggers That Make Men Feel Small
- CWChris Williamson
I'm interested in the role of emasculation here.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
You mentioned it a couple of times.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Kind of a... And it's just, it's a word that I don't hear much, outside of your work.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, I wonder whether it appears in different ways, whether other people, men, use other words instead of it to explain how they feel, when what they mean is, "I feel emasculated." But, uh, I'm interested in what your definition of it is and why it's so important.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(exhales) Um, I, I was asked, six months into studying men, I was asked to stop castrating men. A harsh word. Um, I did. Changed my life forever. But I looked it up in the dictionary, and it, it says, "To deprive of virility."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And then I looked up, um, and it had a synonym, emasculate. And, and over the years, right, it's been since 1991, um-... emasculation, the idea of emasculation. Um, it got captured. His name is Tomer. And we were talking about feeling bad, that women don't want to make men feel bad and especially my graduates. They don't want to make men feel bad because they've given up the right to emasculate men, so they, they don't want to tell their man something they need because if he can't do it, he may feel bad.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And, and Tomer said, "Feeling bad does not emasculate me." He said, "When you diminish my ability to produce results, you have emasculated me."
- CWChris Williamson
Huh.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And that sent me on a whole other trajectory of productivity versus connectivity, which goes back to that security through productivity, safety through connectivity. So you could call it the masculine and feminine if you wanted to, but so many women spend more time in a hunting committed, goal-producing, committed state of mind that those terms are, have got, they were hard to deal with in the '90s, um, so much baggage to unpack. But if, if you're finding security through productivity, male or female, doesn't matter, if you're, feel safe through connectivity, which comes with an open state of mind, which estrogen naturally creates in the brain. So to diminish someone's ability to produce results, as a, as a man... It can be anything from being taken down a notch, the wind's out of your sails, the plug was literally pulled out of the wall and you, "Oh." Everything shuts down.
- CWChris Williamson
Get specific for me. What, what, what are some of the ways that women emasculate men that's... What are the most common ways that they do it all and/or some of the ways that they do it and they might not notice?
- AAAlison Armstrong
Can I expand it a little bit? Because what we figured out after a long time was everybody does it to everybody. Women emasculate men, women emasculate women, women emasculate themselves. Men naturally emasculate men. It's part of war. (laughs) Whether it's war in the boardroom, right, or (laughs) it's, it's part of business, it's part of the workplace to compete and diminish, and it could be honorable or dishonorable. Um, so, so what we saw is everything women do to men, we do to ourselves. And, um, in the case of what we were talking about, not telling a man what we need 'cause we thought it would hurt his feelings, and Tomer's saying, "That doesn't hurt my feelings," one of the ways that we diminish the men in our lives' ability to produce results is we withhold quality information. We don't speak up about what really matters to us. We don't expose ourselves that way. We don't s- say it. That's why authenticity is so valued, so charming, and the way one man put it is a head-turner s- and you would have heard it in The Queen's Code, "A strong woman, voluntarily vulnerable." So she's clearly capable and yet she's admitting a need.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Oh, it's breathtaking. Especially if what she needs, he can give her. And he knows he can give her and she'll entrust him to give it and she'll, she'll think it's worth 1,000 points. (laughs) Like, "Oh my gosh, I needed that so badly." So that dynamic, right, can get really beautiful. But w- when we don't want to reveal a need because we think it's unattractive, "If I need something then I'm not perfect and I'll be unattractive and less pleasing to you, and then you won't save me and I'll die."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
"You won't choose me." So, so it- it's just not speaking up about what we need-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... is emasculating.
- CWChris Williamson
Give me some more.
- AAAlison Armstrong
(sighs) Um, this is a hard one and I apologized for it earlier, w- we interrupt. So I'll ask a man a question, for example, and then he doesn't answer fast enough, so I'll interrupt his thinking and he still doesn't answer, we'll rephrase, and then we'll interrupt him again, right? Give him options 'cause he's too stupid for (laughs) an open question. We think this stuff. But we also, we don't understand that in... My husband helped me understand this. I... In studying natural horsemanship, Buck Brannaman was talking about how horses are seeking peace. And I was thinking about how much men have talked to me about peace. Yeah, we're warriors and what do we crave? Peace. What do we want most when we walk through the door? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
Peace.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- AAAlison Armstrong
And, and so I, I asked Greg, "So when you accomplish what you're focused on, then do you experience peace?" And he, he would look at me in this, it was the sweetest way. He'd just be kind of like-Like... (laughs) Like, when I was going, going, "Honey, the hierarchy of instinct. So is it protect, then provide, then procreate? (sighs) Is it provide, then procreate, then protect? Is it..." And he's looking at me and looking at me and goes, "Keep going." And I went, "No. It's procreate, then protect, then provide?" And he just smiled at me, "Hmm." So then I asked other men. He's... They're like, "Yeah, of course. You create it, then you protect it." (laughs) "You have an invention, you patent it," right? Like, it's the most natural thing to do. But it, there's a hierarchy. One trumps the other. This is why emasculation is important, 'cause women want men to be in provide mode. But when we criticize, which is a form of emasculation...
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- AAAlison Armstrong
... a man will retract from provide into protect. And if it's a direct attack, like on your character, "You're just like your..." fill in the blank, "Your father." You know, right? Now he's protecting himself. And that's what brings out the worst in men, when they're protecting themselves, 'cause it overrides their com- their compelling desire to protect others.
Episode duration: 2:58:05
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