How To Truly Build Toughness - Greg Everett | Modern Wisdom Podcast 300

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   ... he gets seen…

   1. GEGreg Everett0:00

      ... he gets seen by a fishing boat finally, after 76 days, and he's so dialed in and, like, accepting of his situation that when the guys come to save him, he goes, "No, no, no, you guys go ahead and finish fishing and then pick me up when you're done." So he literally sat there and waited for these guys to finish their day of fishing, just waited in this raft. He's like, "Hey, 76 days, what's another six to eight hours?" (wind blows)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:25

      What do most people have wrong about toughness? What is it not?

   3. GEGreg Everett0:30

      Uh, well, what... I think the, the biggest common, uh, mistake people make is that it's... we see it as being, uh, a masculine quality or somehow inherently related to manhood or, or the, the condition of being a man. Um, and I spend a lot of time in that early on in the book, really breaking it down and explaining what exactly being tough truly is. And it has nothing to do with sex, gender, or any of these things. They are totally independent elements, uh, that anybody can attain with the proper, you know, work and understanding. Um, and the, the, the, kind of the secondary part of that is that it is associated a lot of the times with kind of violence or aggression or, uh, that, that sort of, um, need to demonstrate our ability or our superiority over others. And again, totally unrelated to what being tough truly is. Uh, but we, we have these associations in our minds, especially based on our past experiences with people who claim to be tough or whom others tell us are tough, which is often far, far off the mark.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:40

      There's been a recent, I would say in the last five years I've noticed quite strongly, a surge in content around fortitude and resilience and toughness, and people like David Goggins are being really upheld and cold showers are becoming a thing and, you know... W- why do you think people are drawn toward a discussion about toughness in 2021?

   5. GEGreg Everett2:05

      I think because you simultaneously have it becoming less of a normal trait for people than it used to be, but more and more necessary for us to get through our lives now, and those things are related, certainly. Uh, y- you look back at, say, like, my grandfather's generation, uh, going through the Great Depression, World War II, uh, these sorts of things where, you know, my grandparents grew up on farms. They were dirt poor. Uh, there were traits that you developed as a child growing up in a situation like that, that, you know, a lot of people still do in, in, you know, both of our countries of course, but where it wasn't this thing that you sought out, it was just something that naturally you developed because there was no other choice. You wanna eat? Well, you better figure out how to eat, and it's gonna take some work. Versus my daughter's generation, like, "Hey, I wanna eat." They boop, boop, boop, and someone delivers food to their door 20 minutes later while they're sitting there watching, you know, 15,000 different shows on TV. Uh, so it's, it's this totally different experience that we're having in our lives, and I think what's happening is that more and more of us are recognizing that there is something missing, that we're... there's an absence of experience, um, and, uh, you know, a, a sense of fulfillment and contentment and accomplishment because we're not required to engage in things that are difficult and demanding and require commitment, um, a- and, and an understanding of who we truly are and what's important to us. So we're kind of just flailing around, uh, searching for ways to entertain ourselves and distract ourselves, which temporarily is satisfying, but in the long term kind of leaves us having a, a, you know, a continual series of midlife crises, right? So instead of having one midlife crisis like the olden days, now we have one every five years where it's like, "What have we been doing? What do I wanna do? Who am I? This is awful."

   6. CWChris Williamson4:04

      Mm-hmm.

   7. GEGreg Everett4:05

      Uh, and so I, I think that's why it's becoming more and more of a popular topic.

   8. CWChris Williamson4:10

      How do you define toughness then? What, what is it? If that's what it's not, what is it?

   9. GEGreg Everett4:17

      So I break it down into four, uh, elements. The first one is character, and that is simply what is your identity? And, and the corollary to that is, are you secure in that identity? So who are you and what is important to you? What's meaningful to you? Um, because without that, that, that's your guide for every decision you make. And so many of us are just absolutely clueless when it comes to who we actually are. Uh, a lot of us have stories in our minds that we've been telling ourselves about who we are for our entire lives, uh, most of the time very far from accurate. Uh, but that's kind of what props up our egos and makes us believe that we have this kind of dialed in and figured out. Um, and the security in that identity is key too, because so many of us are totally insecure in who we are, and that's why we have so many of us, uh, you know, constantly on the search for recognition and appreciation and, and credit and, uh, you know, th- these desperate pleas for validation. L- you know, look at social media every day. It's just, it's sad, honestly. Um, and so much of it is unconscious. Like, people are not setting out every day like, "I need someone to tell me I'm, I'm strong and pretty." Uh, but that's what it is. And, and, and without that security, we end up with the, you know, those kind of, uh, behaviors and also, you know, the ridiculous unnecessary competition and the one-upmanship and all these things that just drive ridiculous behavior and prevent us from accomplishing anything actually meaningful, uh, long term. Uh, next you have capability, which is, uh, not just physical ability, uh, and physical traits and skills, but knowledge. It's, and it's y- your... We need to garner this through the accumulation of very broad, uh, experiences, novel experiences and learning, you know, collecting more and more tools, uh, physically, mentally, uh, emotionally, and learning how to succeed through different situations, unpredictable situations, and gaining the confidence that comes along with, uh, successfully experiencing such things. Um-... next, we have, uh, capacity, which is what, you know, most people think of as resilience, but I distinguish this from resilience in that, you know, resilience technically is a return to your original condition following some kind of adversity or trauma, right? So that, to me, the analogy is storm comes, you go downstairs, you ride it out in the cellar, you wait for it to clear up, you go back and just resume your life. That's resilience. That's good, right? We're not getting destroyed by it. But what I want is to use those experiences, that adversity, hardship, challenge, to, to develop further, to become stronger, more intelligent, more engaged with the world, uh, to view, to add to that toolbox, to get more experience using th- those tools in, in, in unique, novel ways. Um, and then finally is commitment, and this encompasses, uh, you know, discipline, uh, habit building, routine, these sorts of things, and this is really what brings all of the previous three together. Because without the commitment to it, the rest are just kind of a private fantasy, right? You... This is the story we're telling ourselves, "Well, I am, I am resilient, and I am capable." But if we don't actually put those things into use during meaningful, significant, uh, experiences, then we're not those things. We either have the potential to be those things, or we're just lying to ourselves. Uh, and so that, that's what kind of wraps it all up, and that's how we create that life.

   10. CWChris Williamson7:40

       Going back to character, do you think it's built or revealed? Is character something that's innate, or is it something that we have to construct?

   11. GEGreg Everett7:49

       Uh, I don't think it's innate, although I do think obviously we have, uh, much of it is built without our participation early on in life, right? It's, you know, through our influences, our parents, our family, our friends, our teachers, coaches, whatever. Um, and so, you know, when you're six years old, you're not conscious of the development of your character unless you're some kind of, you know, genius, prodigy kid. But, uh, so because of that, there's always opportunities for character to be revealed, for us to experience something that forces us to look at who we are at present. But at the same time, I do think we have, you know, uh, uh, complete ability to determine who we are, to decide our character, uh, to figure out what then, you know, the behavior, the speech, the ways of thinking then support that identity, and then to make those changes in our lives to reflect it. So, it's, it's a, you know, a dialectical process where maybe we experience something, we see, "Wow, this is who I am. It is not who I believed I was. It is not who I want to be. So who do I want to be? And now, more importantly, how do I actually make that true? What do I need to change in my life? How do I need to behave and think and speak in order to actually become that person rather than just thinking this is who I would like to be?"

   12. CWChris Williamson9:07

       Man, the more that I look at learning-

   13. GEGreg Everett9:10

       (clears throat)

   14. CWChris Williamson9:10

       ... about character and personal values and why are you here, looking at the core reasons for you being on the planet, I don't think that there's a more important question that anyone should be asking themselves.

   15. GEGreg Everett9:22

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson9:22

       It took me until I was 31 to do, sit down and actually work out the five core values that my life is built upon, which is mental.

   17. GEGreg Everett9:31

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson9:31

       How did I get through 18 years of full-time education, two degrees, including a master's, and no one ever said, "Why are you here?" Like, "What, what, what's the reason that you're here?" I'd done it for businesses. So, the young-

   19. GEGreg Everett9:45

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson9:45

       ... entrepreneurs that are listening who've sat down and said, "Right. Okay, so let's talk about the brand values that we've got," while the people sat around the table haven't got their own values organized.

   21. GEGreg Everett9:56

       Yeah. It's bizarre. And, and, and th- what's more bizarre is that, as you said, they can be completely, uh, unaware of the ridiculousness of that situation, where they're putting so much effort into, "What, what is meaningful to my business," right? Like the business is this living entity that has its own values. It's like, no, those are your values expressed through your company, so, like, why (laughs) , why would you not do this for yourself? That... It's, it's bananas.

   22. CWChris Williamson10:30

       Yeah, man. It's, um... It, it really is, I think... It's one of the big changing points, a big inflection point that you have when you actually sit down and do that exercise. And I've been banging on-

   23. GEGreg Everett10:41

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson10:41

       ... about this for, for the last year or so. Everyone that's listening will be familiar with this. But for the people that haven't already decided to do this exercise, I implore you, whether it's through Greg's book, Tough, which will be linked in the show notes below, or Taylor Pearson's, uh, Core Values exercise, which you can get online, or whatever it is, like, you need to do it. What was life like for you before and after? Was there something that, where you realized, "Right, I need to sit down and get my core values in order," or w- have you always had them set?

   25. GEGreg Everett11:10

       Oh, no (laughs) . D- definitely have not, uh, had myself sorted out always. Uh, it, it's been... It's been a, a, a continual series of, of events that have kind of nudged me in, in various directions. And, um, it, it is something certainly that is ongoing, right? So even if you do sit down, you figure out your values today, um, those things are very likely going to evolve over time based on new experiences, new interactions with different people and, and new demands, things like that. Uh, but so, I mean, really early on in life for me, uh, I, I struggled very much. I was a really, uh, self-conscious, insecure kid, and, and, uh, was... I mean, I don't think I had any solid identity. I, I was the chameleon, right? Where I was popular because I could be whoever I needed to be in any group, any situation. And that works great when you're 16, 17. You know what I mean? Uh, you can get whatever girlfriend you want, right? Because you're always the right guy. Uh, and you, you know, you have these friends, and, and... But when you get a little older, you recognize, "Well, this isn't gonna get me very far. You know, I'm unhappy. Th- none of this stuff is working for me." And, and so my personal experience ear- early on was I had, uh, a huge drug problem, right? Um, and so by the time I hit, you know, at 19, 20 years old, I was...... that was the, the f- I think the first big thing where I was forced to step back and say, "Is this actually who I want to be? Am I willing to continue down this road?" Um, you know, and I had good friends who had s- you know, serious drug addiction problems. I had friends who died, I had friends who were getting arrested, these things, sorts of things. So it wasn't, it wasn't a purely conceptual exercise for me. It was, like, very clear what my potential paths were. And so that was the first thing where I really had to take a step back and be like, "I need to figure myself out." And it, it wasn't a straightforward quick thing. It took, you know, a number of years to get through that. But, uh, I think since then, what I learned was how critical that, uh, that ability to be self-reliant and independent and know exactly who I was and what was meaningful to me, because that was what was driving all of my decisions. And without that, again, like I said earlier, you're just kind of flailing around, uh, being discontent for the rest of your life.

   26. CWChris Williamson13:35

       Let's say that someone does go through their core values and work out why they're here or they, they have a good concrete idea of that, but what's next? Like, just 'cause you've got your values written down on a piece of paper somewhere, that doesn't really mean anything.

   27. GEGreg Everett13:49

       Yeah. Well, what's next is the continual self-monitoring, right? And so, being, being aware of what you're doing and, and being willing and able to ask yourself with all these decisions you're making, "Does re- this reflect who I am and what's important to me?" Because so much of, of what we do in a given day is, is habitual, right? We, we, we continue to do these behaviors because we've always done them. It's, they're so well ingrained. And so much of the time those things are discordant with what we actually want to achieve or who we want to be. Uh, and so if we don't address that, we kind of just remain on that same course just through inertia. Um, and so when we get to these various, uh, you know, inflection points or, or forks in the road where we have to actually make a conscious decision, we have to fall back on these things, fall back on the identity and our values to make those decisions to ensure that they are in harmony with what is actually meaningful to us. Because so much of, uh, uh, so many of us are, are just driven by, uh, convention or tradition or what we are expected to do or what we're told that is, you know, important to us. I mean, look at how many people

2. 15:00 – 30:00

   It's an interesting one.…

   1. GEGreg Everett15:00

      take personality tests or, or these things that are supposed to tell us who we are and what we want, and then, you know, I, I, I'm very, very dubious about the accuracy and the value of those things. And, and so much so because once you have decided, "Okay, well this is, this is my personality. I took a test in Cosmo or whatever. Uh, and so now I have to, you know, match all of my decisions and behaviors to this." Well, that's the same thing as not knowing who you are, because that's very likely not who you are. It's just that now you feel like you have this structure, but it's still leading you down a path that is not going to deliver you, uh, repeatedly as it should to a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.

   2. CWChris Williamson15:46

      It's an interesting one. I had Dr. Benjamin Hardy on the show, uh, discussing his book, Personality Isn't Permanent about a year ago, and he was-

   3. GEGreg Everett15:54

      Mm-hmm.

   4. CWChris Williamson15:54

      ... incredibly critical of pretty much every different personality test except for the big five. And his reason for not being critical of the big five was because you're not put into a type with the big five.

   5. GEGreg Everett16:06

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson16:06

      They don't say that you're a green or an MBTI or a, a, a classic-

   7. GEGreg Everett16:11

      Right.

   8. CWChris Williamson16:11

      ... classic sparkly dragon or a new age sparkly dragon-

   9. GEGreg Everett16:14

      (laughs)

   10. CWChris Williamson16:14

       ... whatever it is. Like that, it doesn't give you a category that, that he feels constrains people. Um, but yeah, man, uh, uh, looking at the way that character relates to capability, capacity, and commitment, it seems to me that character needs to be there to form the foundation. That everything else can be built upon very, very shaky, um, underpinnings if you don't actually understand why you're here and what you're doing. As mutual friend Ben Bergeron talks about, he says, "You can spend a lifetime climbing a ladder only to realize it's put up against the wrong wall." And-

   11. GEGreg Everett16:47

       Right.

   12. CWChris Williamson16:47

       ... um, Greg McKeown told me this story about when some executive, high, high flying executive at some massive media company he'd been working at for years and years and he'd sacrificed family time, he'd been doing 18-hour days five days a week for 20 years, and he finally gets to the top. And he speaks to Greg and he says, "Man, my son won't talk to me. My 19-year-old son won't talk to me. Like, I don't have-"

   13. GEGreg Everett17:11

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson17:11

       "... a relationship with my son because I've never spent any time with him. My family's in tatters and all that I want now is to have a family life. I've got all the way to the peak of this world that I thought I wanted and look at what's happened. Like, I don't-"

   15. GEGreg Everett17:25

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson17:25

       "... I don't want this." So you can very, very quickly put yourself in the wrong direction if you haven't got this sorted. Um, so we've got, we've got character. In the book there are some core values exercises that peoples can go through and will help to give them some clarity on that. Moving on to capability, it's what are you able to do, right? That's your capacity-

   17. GEGreg Everett17:45

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson17:46

       ... is your ability to deal with things, your capability is what you're able to do.

   19. GEGreg Everett17:53

       Yeah. And this is such a, a large umbrella, right? This is really all-encompassing. Again, not just skill and physical ability like, you know, strength, endurance, whatever, but, but the knowledge. And this is so much predicated on experience, novel experience, varied experience. Uh, because so many of us are, are really stuck in this very narrow bandwidth of life experience where we, we have our profession, we have our specialty, we have our narrow set of interests. Uh, we all watch pretty much the same handful of TV shows. We all look at the same Instagram accounts. Uh, I mean, you look at, again, going back to my daughter's generation, they all talk exactly the same. Where when I was growing up, it was regional.... right? So where I was from, people spoke one way, and then, you know, other side of the state, they spoke a little bit differently. And now it's like every- everyone is so tied together across the world that it's just so homogenous. Um, and so we have to break out of that a- and, and go into peripheral realms, not just for the sake of learning what's out there, but w- understanding that the things that you learn outside of your specialty and, and your area of, of comfort and expertise will contribute to your expertise, will contribute to your specialty. And you don't know how it will because you haven't ever experienced it. There- it's unpredictable. Um, but also the- a, a huge part of that too is we, we very much overestimate our abilities when we never get outside the area in which we're already comfortable, and we develop this, this false sense of confidence, um, that, that can harm us anytime we are forced to step out of there. Whereas if we're constantly seeking out novel experiences and, and, uh, you know, developing the abilities to successfully deal with them, now we're building legitimate confidence. We're, we're creating not just the ability to handle things that are unpredictable and different, but we're developing the confidence that we can, right? And the more of those experiences we have where we successfully deal with things that we haven't dealt with before, the more we recognize, you know, our ability to, to take care of ourselves, to, uh, to handle the unpredictable, to handle adversity. And so we start chipping away at th- that very natural sense of i- intimidation and fear and anxiety that people experience when, you know, they have to en- en- encounter things that they are not already comfortable with. And that just... Think about how much of life opens up to you when you have that attitude and that mindset and that confidence. Um, what's that movie, Yes Man with Jim Carrey, where he just has to say yes to everything? You don't want to go too crazy, right? Like you have to be- work within reason there. But that's the idea is, is rather than finding reasons to avoid things because they're scary or intimidating or you, you've never done them before, uh, you know, get out there and dip your toe in the water at least and, and, and see what's going on. Because chances are you're gonna discover things that are wildly enjoyable, but also beneficial to what your primary focus is.

   20. CWChris Williamson21:07

       The interesting thing about capability is that someone's confidence is actually the limiting factor on it. When you think about, "I am able to do this physically or mentally. If you put me in a situation, I'm able to do it." But if your belief is downregulated from that, then that's what you're working off. You're actually working off 80% or 70% or 50% or 10%, you know, of whatever your available amount is. So let's say that there's someone who's listening who is a little bit low on confidence or doesn't have that self-belief. What's something that they can go out and do this week? Or how would you prescribe them some strategies for starting to build that confidence up?

   21. GEGreg Everett21:47

       Well, here's the key thing, and I talk about this a lot actually in the capacity, uh, section of the book. But this is like any other physical training, where your challenges and the exercises you're doing, um, to this end have to be appropriately designed and dosed. So for example, like if you want to... You say, "I, I want to go, uh, learn how to rock climb. I've never done it before. I've never set protection. I've never been on a rope." Don't go try to climb El Capitan next week, right? You're gonna die. You're gonna have a bad time. Uh, instead, you know, go do something small. Go do some bouldering, go do some top roping with someone who's experienced. Um, and so these things have to be very individual. They need to be, uh, uh... Initially, of course, they should interest us to some degree ideally, but they should be related somehow to our lifestyle, our needs, you know, in terms of our profession, uh, and our locality, because those are the, the abilities we want to develop first. Those are our priorities, what's critical for us day to day. Um, but then you have to determine, okay, what's my starting point? Because my starting point is very different from your starting point in any given endeavor, uh, because our experiences and our knowledge is different, right? So for someone who's an experienced rock climber, maybe they- their next challenge is to, you know, free climb the nose of El Cap, uh, whereas, you know, I haven't climbed in 23 years. I'm not getting near that. No, I won't even walk to the base of that thing right now. Uh, so it- this can be literally anything, and s- and for some people it's gonna be as, as seemingly simple and mild as, um, getting past the anxiety and going to the grocery store by themselves. I mean, that can literally be a huge challenge for some of us. It was for me, uh, uh, as a, uh, an, an older teenager. I would run out of food every once in a while because I couldn't get myself to go to the store. That's how out of my mind I was with, with self-consciousness and anxiety about it. Um, and so it's, it's about sitting down and figuring out, where do I want to go? Now, how do I break those things down into smaller and smaller and more manageable pieces? Where do I start? What's step one out of 1,000 or whatever it is? Um, and so I don't have specific prescriptions for that. It's more of a- of guidance on how do you determine what's important to you, what you need to work on? And now let's figure out what's the first step, right? And so I guess what I would say is fi- you can figure out today what is, what is something that I, I, I know that I'm lacking in capability right now? What's something that's holding me back, uh, from what I want to do or who I want to be, I guess is a better way to think of it? And now what's step one in that potentially very protracted process to move me in that direction? And so you create the map and then you create those little waypoints along the way.... to keep you moving in that direction, you know, no matter how, uh, you know, tortuous it may be. It's very, very unlikely to be a, you know, a linear, uh, course, but that's what keeps you on course, uh, and, and gives you those little waypoints, those little landmarks along the way is what stokes your enthusiasm, right? Versus like, "Oh my God, I'm never gonna get this. It's such a huge goal." But each one of those little steps is a, an accomplishment, and that's what kinda keeps propelling you forward with greater and greater momentum.

   22. CWChris Williamson25:13

       What are some capabilities that everyone should have?

   23. GEGreg Everett25:18

       Uh, these things are, uh, and, and some of this sounds silly, I know, but I think it's really important, but like, the ability to drive a manual transmission, right? That, like, this is one of the things, I grew up driving stick shifts and, and I finally got rid of them as I got older 'cause I got lazy, and I got tired of driving through L.A. traffic, you know, stop and go, stop and go, trying to eat a taco, change my shirt all at the same time. But, uh, y- you think, you think, "Oh, well, that's dumb. We don't need that." Okay. What if you are somewhere, your child is seriously injured, you have to get them to a hospital, and the only vehicle available is a manual transmission and you can't drive it? Are you just gonna give up on your kid? So it's like little things like that, you know, you, people say, "Oh, that's so dramatic." Yeah, it's, it's, it's melodramatic until you're in that situation and then you go, "That Greg, he was right." Uh, and now your kid hates you. So, uh, things like that, things like, um, uh, you know, literacy, uh, being capable of, of reading and comprehending things well and being able to absorb information. So many of us, the, the longest thing we read now is a, a Twitter or a tweet or an Instagram caption, and, you know, I look at, um, you know, adults my age. I, I just turned 41, and I, I read emails from people and I'm like, "How have you survived this long w- with, you know, s- so much difficulty with the language?" Like, you're missing out on so much, uh, without developing that, you know, reading more books, writing, even if it's just in a personal journal, developing that ability to articulate and communicate. Um, so there's a long list in the book of, of kind of universal capabilities, but they're, they're primarily about giving us the foundation to be successful versus specific long-term, uh, capabilities, you know, being able to climb El Capitan or whatever. Uh, it- it's more like what, what are the foundational things that allow us to move toward those things long term?

   24. CWChris Williamson27:27

       You've got a quote in that section which I loved which says, "All toughness is ultimately mental in nature regardless of how much the physical body is involved. A hammer can't pound any nails if we never pick it up off the work bench or can't find the nail." Such a good quote.

   25. GEGreg Everett27:44

       Yup. Finding that nail sometimes is the hardest part.

   26. CWChris Williamson27:46

       Yeah. Uh, talking about capacity, I think this is what people believe you're referring to mostly when they talk about toughness, right? Like, resilience to adversity-

   27. GEGreg Everett27:56

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson27:56

       ... what you're able to withstand.

   29. GEGreg Everett27:59

       Right. Yeah. And that, these are the, these are the really compelling stories that we hear, right? People who survive, like I talk about Steven Callahan in the book survived alone in a life raft on the Atlantic Ocean for 76 days. Um, I mean, that, imagine simply being alone, being unable to communicate with anybody for 76 days, even in the comfort of your own living room. Most of us would go crazy. Like, that, that alone is difficult, but now you've got sharks bumping up under your raft, your raft is leaking, you're getting blown around by storms, getting soaked, you've got sores all over your body from the salt water. Um, that's the kind of story where we, we really are, uh, so enamored with that sort of thing, and so I think that's where we see toughness really standing out. But people forget that, uh, you know, toughness is, is demonstrated on, on an infinite gradient of intensities and durations. And so, we take that example on one end or, you know, Viktor Frankl, you know, surviving his incarceration in a concentration camp during World War II and finding a way, you know, uh, psychologically and spiritually to kind of find that sense of inner peace and freedom. Uh, we look at that, and then we kind of scoff at the, "Oh, pfft, you can't get over yourself and go to the grocery store," sort of thing, but it's like, those little things, or seemingly little things, are critical to building the capacity that gets us through the big things. And so, we can't discount those things. We can't trivialize them. We have to put our effort into those things because that is the practice, that's the foundation that moves us toward the capacity to withstand the big, glamorous things, falling off the side of a mountain or whatever it is and, you know, walking home with one leg, uh, you know, whatever it takes. But if, if you, if you're unwilling to do the, the, the work and the day-to-day stuff, it's very unlikely you're gonna get to that point where stories will be written about you.

   30. CWChris Williamson29:58

       What was your favorite story

3. 30:00 – 45:00

   I think Steven Callahan's…

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      that you researched when looking at the capacity chapter?

   2. GEGreg Everett30:06

      I think Steven Callahan's really stood out, the, the life raft experience.

   3. CWChris Williamson30:09

      Can you tell us about that?

   4. GEGreg Everett30:10

      He wrote a book... Yeah. He wrote a book called Adrift, and, um, this was in the mid-'80s, I believe, but he was sailing solo, um, uh, I forget where he started, Canary Islands maybe, and almost immediately into this trip, uh, a whale rammed his boat and the thing sank so quickly he couldn't even get all of his survival supplies out. Thankfully, he got the, the life raft that had some gear with it. And so, reading his account of that, um, it- it's just mind-blowing because the, the...... the, the degree of ingenuity and resourcefulness that he displayed is just on such a, a higher level than most of us-

   5. CWChris Williamson30:53

      What, like?

   6. GEGreg Everett30:53

      ... can even imagine. Like, so my, the, the fa- the favorite for me is that he had this, this leak in his raft, and he was trying everything and all these different ropes and knots and trying to prevent it, and it just would never stop leaking. And so he finally ended up using a fork to fix it. And so y- you look at the kind of creative thinking that involves, um, and you, and if you see it now, you're like, "Oh, no big deal. He used the fork as, like, a toggle to crank on the thing. It's so obvious." No, it's not. A fork is something that we associate with creating leaks, not fixing them. So most of us who are very ju, you know, judicial thinkers would not even entertain that as a possibility, let alone take the time to think, "Here's what I have. One of these things is a old Boy Scout fork. How can I use this to repair this leak and then actually make it happen and save that raft for another 60 days," or whatever it is, which those things are meant to last, like, a week maybe at best, I think.

   7. CWChris Williamson31:53

      Yeah.

   8. GEGreg Everett31:53

      Um, and so th- there were just many stories like that. And, and, and him having this internal dialogue, and he kind of described, you know, having two people in his head. One was the very emotional, um, person, and one was the, the more rational, kind of the captain, I think he referred to it as like, "Nope, this is what has to happen. You have to do this, this, and this." And you know, the other guy's in there like, "Nah, I kind of just want to lie down and just sleep this away and forget it. I don't want to do it." And so it was, it's just s, it's this, like, perfect story to me of survival, but the, the internal dilemmas and difficulties, uh, mixed with the, um, the, the necess- or necessity of being so resourceful and creative and bringing that all together into this, like, unbelievable harmony. And then it's so incredible. He gets seen by a fishing boat finally after 76 days. And he's so dialed in and, like, accepting of his situation that when the guys come to save him, he goes, "No, no, no, you guys go ahead and finish fishing and then pick me up when you're done." So he literally sat there and waited for these guys to finish their day of fishing, just waited in this raft. He's like, "Hey, 76 days, what's another six to eight hours?" That's unreal. You know, most of us, if we were in there for six hours would be, like, s, crawling out of there, swimming to the boat, "Get me out of here." He's, "Ah, you guys, I'm just going to enjoy the view for a little while." So th- that, I mean, that book, if, if you haven't read it, that book is very much worth the time.

   9. CWChris Williamson33:28

      That's a sick story. Have you read The Forgotten Highlander by Alistair Urquhart?

   10. GEGreg Everett33:34

       No, I've never even heard of it.

   11. CWChris Williamson33:35

       It's such a hidden gem. So I got told about this about two years ago from a buddy. Think of Man's Search for Meaning, subtract-

   12. GEGreg Everett33:45

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson33:45

       ... all of the psychological insights, add in about 10X the amount of extremeness, and you've got this book.

   14. GEGreg Everett33:54

       (laughs)

   15. CWChris Williamson33:54

       It is unreal. So this guy was a, um, in the Highlanders, so one of the Scottish regiment over in Japan. Um, and then when World War II began-

   16. GEGreg Everett34:05

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson34:05

       ... he was captured as a part of that when the, when Japan, uh, left, uh, or joined the war. And he gets put on these death ships, which are essentially tin boxes with 150 people in for a month at sea with no water and no food. He doesn't die. He builds the bridge over the River Kwai, uh, and is constantly-

   18. GEGreg Everett34:24

       (laughs)

   19. CWChris Williamson34:24

       ... dealing with dysentery and, like, a million tropical diseases at once, doesn't die.

   20. GEGreg Everett34:29

       Yeah.

   21. CWChris Williamson34:29

       Gets locked in a cage in the middle of the midday sun for, like, three days straight because he'd done something to piss off one of the Japanese people, still doesn't die. Then gets shipped over to, toward the mainland and gets knocked off his feet by the aftershock from the Nagasaki bomb drop, still doesn't die. And then stays silent for 50 years because the army told him to-

   22. GEGreg Everett34:52

       (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson34:52

       ... to keep diplomatic relations, uh, proper. And then he writes this book as a memoir and a call to account for the Japanese government to be, um, brought up in front of the world for the crimes that they'd done against humanity while he was there. And it's so bad, but dude, like, if, if you want the contrast effect that you get where you realize-

   24. GEGreg Everett35:12

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson35:12

       ... all of the problems that I have are absolutely tiny. And then also to see-

   26. GEGreg Everett35:16

       Right.

   27. CWChris Williamson35:16

       ... the capacity of what people are able to go through, um, it's phenomenal, man. Like, seeing people that can go through this sort of-

   28. GEGreg Everett35:23

       Forgotten Highlander, is that what it's called?

   29. CWChris Williamson35:24

       The Forgo- Forgotten Highlander, yes.

   30. GEGreg Everett35:26

       Okay, yeah, I'm gonna get that.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   (laughs) …

   1. GEGreg Everett45:00

      it, you're like, "Well, I don't know why. It's kind of a stupid metric." Like, it's just this thing that sounds like a good idea because that's what everyone else is doing. You know, "I want 500 million followers on Instagram." Like, why? Like, is that going to actually make you content? Uh, you know, I- I want that little blue check on Instagram, but only because they've been dogging me for so long and it drives me nuts. Uh, but it's not actually going to make me happy. You know what I mean? Like, I think somehow I offended somebody at Instagram years ago and now they're just-

   2. CWChris Williamson45:31

      (laughs)

   3. GEGreg Everett45:31

      ... they're just doing it to mess with me.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:33

      To spite you. That's funny, man.

   5. GEGreg Everett45:35

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson45:36

      Yeah. I, um, I genuinely believe that you can inculcate this. You can habituate reminding yourself that you're being pulled away from your core values. And until you've done them, you'll never know when it's happening.

   7. GEGreg Everett45:51

      Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:51

      But in the same way as when you realize that you've become lost in thought, if you've spent a bit of time meditating and you realize, "Hang on, I was dreaming but awake there. I was lost in thought without knowing that I was lost in thought." That is what it is to be dreaming while you're still awake. And the same thing can occur when-

   9. GEGreg Everett46:10

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson46:11

       ... you get this compulsion. I often get it when looking on Instagram. There's a lot of people from the UK that are out in Dubai at the moment because they fled before the lockdown kicked in, and they're having this great time out in Dubai.

   11. GEGreg Everett46:23

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson46:23

       So I get jealous about my buddies that I see out there that are doing this thing. But then I just ask him- ask myself, "Hang on, why- why would you want to be there? Like, what is it that you're missing?" And as you start to dig into it, you realize, well, hang on, all of the things that I value for my short and medium-term goals are here, right here, right now. And that's why you made the decision to be in the UK. So it doesn't matter, but because we have this system one thinking, this impulsive, just reactionary way that it's, I want that. Why? Why do you want that? Well, he's got it.

   13. GEGreg Everett46:59

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson46:59

       That is a fucking stupid reason to want anything, because he's got it or she's doing it. Like-

   15. GEGreg Everett47:04

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson47:04

       ... and the more that we can assess our assumptions, the more that we can act intentionally. And until you've got your values in, you don't know when you're being drawn away, but you can habituate it. You notice or you feel when the texture of your mind is starting to be drawn away from the- the course and the path that you are on. And when you start to get drawn away, you go, "There's that thing again. There's that thing."

   17. GEGreg Everett47:28

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson47:28

       "There's that thing that just pulls me away." And then you can just return back to what you're doing. Man, it is so liberating. It's so... and it, you know, it happens. I do it like 1% of the time that I should do it, but with the- that 1%, it feels like such a victory.

   19. GEGreg Everett47:43

       Hey, that's- that's 1% more than most of us do it. And so a big part of that is, is recognizing that that feeling you get when you see those, the pictures of everyone partying in Dubai while you're back at home in the- in the rain.

   20. CWChris Williamson47:56

       (laughs)

   21. GEGreg Everett47:56

       Uh, you know, it's- it's an emotional reaction, right? And it's- it's a, it's not a primary emotion, it's a secondary emotion. It- it's like that jealousy, or- or envy, or resentment, or the- these really, uh, gross, unhelpful feelings that we get. And if we can recognize that and step back and say, well, like you said, "Why am I feeling this way?" We recognize, well, for no good reason at all, so I'm going to go ahead and put that aside and remind myself what I'm doing. And you know, having that a- ability to, uh, take a look at your own life, recognize what's important to you truly, but then also have that sense of- of gratitude and recognizing, "Okay, well, I'm not in Dubai getting drunk, uh, with my buddies, but this is what I am doing. And man, I am extremely grateful for these opportunities I have," and- and whatever the case is. And that really keeps you grounded and focused on what's important versus, like you said, constantly getting pulled in a- you know, infinity directions at 1,000 miles an hour of all these things that you're not doing.... well, okay. The world not doing a lot of things. We're, we're, we're not doing a lot more than we are doing, but what we are doing is important to us and that's what we should be focused on.

   22. CWChris Williamson49:14

       I love that, man. I absolutely love that. Talking about commitment, this is the delivery mechanism for everything that we've spoken about up until now. You can have the best core values in the world, you can have your capability, you can do a handstand and climb El Capitan, but-

   23. GEGreg Everett49:30

       (laughs)

   24. CWChris Williamson49:30

       ... if you're not prepared to actually do the work, nothing matters at all. And-

   25. GEGreg Everett49:37

       Yeah.

   26. CWChris Williamson49:37

       ... I think that a lot of people who enjoy listening to podcasts like this one, who like reading, who like personal growth and self-development, the hurdle that many peoples get stuck at is action, is taking-

   27. GEGreg Everett49:51

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson49:51

       ... action. How can people take more action? How can they be more committed?

   29. GEGreg Everett49:57

       Funny you use that word, because at the end of every chapter of that book there's an action section, and it is practical steps. And that was, that was critical for me because nothing drives me crazier than (laughs) a self-help book that's just purely philosophical. And so here's how you, how you should see the world and good luck actually implementing that and, uh, of course everyone throws the book to the side of the, the bed and goes back to normal. Um, so first and foremost again is once you figure out who you are, what's important to you, what you want to achieve, now you have to determine what the actual practical steps are, and most of that is going to be, um, conscious development of habits and routines that support those things. Right? So we do not have the brain capacity to make that many conscious, willful decisions every day in our lives. That's just a fact, uh, of, of the human brain. And I, you know, depending on, on the source you read, it's 40% to 60% of the things we do in a day are habit. Uh, we're not consciously deciding. Like, when we get dressed in the morning, we're not thinking like, "Okay, put my left leg through my pants, and then I put my right leg," and, y- you know, w- it's, we just do it. And so we need to create more routines like that that are, uh, conducive to where we want to go. So, for example, uh, simple stuff like putting your phone on do not disturb and leaving it in another room while you're supposed to be working. Right? We sit there and we work for three minutes and then we check Instagram, like something important must have happened in the last three minutes. Like, it, there, it can't just be a bunch of more nonsense that I saw earlier. Um, and so developing things like that that set you up for success and, and help you prevent blocking yourself from these things that you want to achieve. Uh, you know, reading every night before you go to sleep, uh, doing some kind of morning journal routine, uh, meditating or, or, you know, breath work. Things like that where you, you create these habits and routines, um, that then continue to provide you the structure, the foundation, to reach farther i- i- with the more ambitious things that you want to accomplish and, and who you want to become. That's really the, the most critical part of it. It's not necessarily saying like, "Oh, I gotta get, uh, you know, super committed to this long-term goal of, of, uh, you know, making it to, to the, the, the South Pole." Right? It's more like, "Well, what do I need to do day to day that's going to change my life in a way that allows me to work toward that goal, uh, without constant disruption?" And that's what most of us are missing. We, we, we kind of skip over the basic stuff and just look for these really lofty goals, and then we're constantly disappointed because we don't meet them, because our day-to-day life makes it impossible.

   30. CWChris Williamson52:49

       What would you say to someone who's really struggling with commitment at the moment, or quote unquote motivation? They feel like they're built for more, they feel like they have some potential inside of them, but when they promise themselves they're gonna get up at 6:00 AM the next morning-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:03:12

   (laughs) …

   1. GEGreg Everett1:00:00

      a jumping off point, right? And so these are, this is a, uh, a foundation, it's a place to get started. There's a lot more to do, there's a lot more to think about, there's a lot more to talk about, but this is what's gonna kind of get you going. Uh, but I kind of saw that as really a result of the four Cs, right? That's what you develop and, and that, that includes kind of that sense of peace, um, that sense of security that we feel that we're all really looking for and, and actually being, feeling safe and secure and satisfied with our own lives, uh, versus constantly, you, you know, feeling uncertain and, uh, and anxious and worried about what's to come. And so I think that is really the ultimate goal is, is finding that really sense, uh, o- of, of inner peace with our lives, what we do, and who we are. But then none of those are Cs, so I have to go with confidence.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:51

      (laughs)

   3. GEGreg Everett1:00:51

      (laughs)

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:54

      I love that, man. I, um, I wrote in a newsletter recently about what confidence actually is, and it's the belief that your abilities will match the required abilities of you, and you-... giving a-

   5. GEGreg Everett1:01:10

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:01:10

      ... a public talk, you very well may be a little bit nervous beforehand, because you don't know if what you are being asked to do is what you can do. But doing your washing up is, you're not even gonna think about confidence-

   7. GEGreg Everett1:01:23

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson1:01:23

      ... because you've done it a million times before, and it's not going to be too much of a concern.

   9. GEGreg Everett1:01:25

      I'm really good at that.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:01:26

       I'm awesome at doing it as well, actually. And, yeah, I think a lot of the time what people think they want when they talk about confidence is this extroversion charisma, this sort of outgoing bravado. They're kind of flamboyant, and they, they've got all of this sort of fancy moves. Everything's done with a twist. Like, even wa- even-

   11. GEGreg Everett1:01:47

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:01:47

       ... washing the plates up is done with, like, a 360 spin. Um-

   13. GEGreg Everett1:01:51

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson1:01:51

       And that's not, that's not what they mean. They just mean, "I want to feel comfortable, that-"

   15. GEGreg Everett1:01:56

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:01:57

       "... I can do the things that are required of me." And it, it really does seem like the four Cs that you've given before that would build up to, um, to give someone a, a firm foundation, as you say, a starting off point. So, Tough-

   17. GEGreg Everett1:02:09

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:02:09

       ... Building True Mental, Physical, and Emotional Toughness for Success and Fulfillment will be linked in the show notes below, and catalystathletics.com if people want to get 1,000-plus articles and videos on how to lift everything.

   19. GEGreg Everett1:02:24

       Spend the rest of your life happily perusing that website.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:02:26

       Watching your face over and over and over again.

   21. GEGreg Everett1:02:31

       Yeah. Well, I don't know if you want to do that for the rest of your life, but it's available if you do.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:02:35

       (laughs) And @GregEverett on Instagram? Or @catalystathletics?

   23. GEGreg Everett1:02:41

       Uh, it's @catalystathletics, and also, um, @becomingtough is, uh, the account for that book, so that will have excerpts and audio clips and things like that, for those who are curious.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:02:53

       Perfect. I love it, man. Thank you so much for coming on.

   25. GEGreg Everett1:02:55

       I appreciate you having me. <<Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-odds. Oh-oh-oh-oh. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Odd odds.>>

Episode duration: 1:03:12