How To Use Light To Optimise Your Health & Happiness | Matt Maruca | Modern Wisdom Podcast 203

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Light is actually one…

   1. MMMatt Maruca0:00

      Light is actually one of the main factors, if not the main factor that controls how well our en- our engines can make energy. So if you live indoors, they don't work as well. If you live out in the sun, they actually work way, way better, and that simple change affects how well we can actually take the food that we're eating and actually turn it into whatever we wanna make it into, and how well we can process it, so...

   2. CWChris Williamson0:27

      (wind blowing) Matt Maruca in the building. How are you doing, man?

   3. MMMatt Maruca0:32

      I'm great, man. I'm glad to be here.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:33

      Good to be here as well. What are you drinking? You just kind of picked up some fancy looking drink. What you got?

   5. MMMatt Maruca0:37

      Yeah, this is a yerba mate. So, you know, I don't drink coffee personally, just out of preference. Not a big fan of it, but this is a great caffeine boost, and it's from, like, a Brazilian leaf, and it's pretty good. It's one bottle contains 140 milligrams of caffeine. That's, like, two cups of coffee, so I'm not drinking this whole bottle, otherwise I'll be-

   6. CWChris Williamson0:56

      It's take your head off. Yeah.

   7. MMMatt Maruca0:57

      Yeah, exactly. (laughs) I'll explode.

   8. CWChris Williamson0:59

      (laughs) Um, so you're talk- you'll ... Today, we are talking about light, right? You're an expert in light. You've done a lot of research into it, looked at the data on light. What is the light diet?

   9. MMMatt Maruca1:13

      It's a great question. So the light diet is, is a term that I've come up with for an approach to health and wellness and self-improvement that takes the most advanced research, the stuff that we're gonna talk about today, and makes it easy to apply for health in the modern world. So, another way to say it is that everyone's focused on food diets, right? Everyone's focused on keto, like you said, paleo, flexible dieting, all these things that address the fuel component of our, our body, you know, the fuel that's coming in. The light diet addresses the engine component, so the actual engines that are burning our fuel and making sure that they're optimized. Uh, and the way I got into this was I, too, was just like you said, I was in the paleo craze, the keto craze, the autoimmune diet craze, like, all these different things to try to heal some gut issues I was having at a, at a younger age without really getting the kind of progress I wanted, and then I ran across a, a genius actual, uh-uh, neurosurgeon from the United States writing about these concepts at a way that was so high level, most people probably couldn't understand it, but I was so motivated, I wanted des- to decipher it. And sure enough, I did. Took the applicable protocols, applied them, totally transformed my life, and that's sort of how we are, where we are now.

   10. CWChris Williamson2:33

       Dude, that's awesome. Who was the neurosurgeon, neuroscientist? Who was it?

   11. MMMatt Maruca2:38

       Yeah, so his name is Dr. Jack Kruse, and he's a ... He was big in the paleo diet world in probably 2012 and 2013, uh, really, like, at the beginning of paleo, because, you know, he had these really, uh, edgy ideas, fringe ideas that he wanted to share, and he figured that if anyone was gonna listen, it might be the ancestral health crowd. Now, he was actually ... He would tell you he was wrong about that, because they actually were so focused on food, that when he came and told them that blue light at night is worse for you than eating a cheesecake or as bad as eating a cheesecake at night because of its effects on our hormones and our melatonin production, which is essential for proper sleep and repair, people were like, "That's insane. That couldn't possibly be true."

   12. CWChris Williamson3:22

       (laughs)

   13. MMMatt Maruca3:22

       "No way." And same thing, like, when he said eating, you know, carbohydrates out of season, if you eat a banana in the winter in Boston, you're insane, 'cause it's a disruption of our natural circadian biology, and it's this, you know, eating food out of season is, is disruptive, uh, because it's just ... It's a different signal than what the environment is presently sh- offering, and it ... So it creates a mismatch basically in our brain, and people just laughed him, laughed him off. But, uh, sure enough, he, he gained a pretty dedicated following over the years, all these people from Bulletproof, from Dave Asprey, from the paleo world, who just weren't able to heal the stuff that they were struggling with, and then when they started focusing on light, they started to have some serious improvements. So it's pretty interesting, uh, interesting stuff. But again, he's a neurosurgeon, total genius, and my goal has been how do I take this really interesting information that fascinates me more than practically anything else and make it something that people can actually apply without reading his blogs, which if you printed all of his blogs out, it would go from the floor to the ceiling of your room there, like, thousands of pages, you know? So, you know, most people aren't gonna read that stuff.

   14. CWChris Williamson4:29

       You gotta make it accessible. That's such a big part now, I think-

   15. MMMatt Maruca4:33

       (clicks tongue)

   16. CWChris Williamson4:33

       ... with this wealth of information that we have online. There is a huge market for just synthesizing the best of what's out there, you know? Look at James Clear's 3-2-1 Newsletter. It's about ... I think it's about 250 words long every week, but every single word is crafted to dial down one huge concept into a tweet, and then there's another bit that's cut into a tweet, and you just think, like, there's a lot of work that goes into that, and with people being strapped for time and stuff like that, I think synthesizing, adding context, and, and bringing it into a usable format for the layperson is a, a pretty noble use of your time. So you talked about, um, the fuel coming from food and the engine coming from light. Can you explain how that works? What do you mean by engine? How does light interact with that engine?

   17. MMMatt Maruca5:29

       Yeah, it's a really interesting story that I actually really love to dive into, so ... And in fact, it fascinates me more than almost anything. So, it's really good when we talk about health to talk about, um, what is health, and for me, hea- and I actually gave a talk about this in London last September at this health optimization summit. It's on YouTube, and I was very ... I, I did a great job, to be honest, you know? It was like I was surprised at myself how well it turned out-

   18. CWChris Williamson5:55

       (laughs)

   19. MMMatt Maruca5:55

       ... um, in (laughs) some ways, but basically, you ask, "What is, what is health?" Well, first of all, you know, it's, it's how well an organism functions, and we would generally say that health is if an organism, a living organism, functions well. So-For me, I wanna understand, okay, well, first of all, what is a living organism and how does it function at all? So that I can then understand what does it mean for it to be functioning well, you know, at the basic, basic level. So if you look at, like, what is a living organism, there's a guy actually from the University College of, uh, London, who, named Nick Lane, who's written some really great books in the science space. And he has, like you said, uh, you know, as far as the people on the front of the book reviewing it, like his main book has Bill Gates on the front saying, "This is the most fascinating science book I've ever read."

   20. NANarrator6:40

       (laughs)

   21. MMMatt Maruca6:40

       So it's really interesting. Yeah. So this is one of your, your British chaps over there.

   22. NANarrator6:44

       Yeah.

   23. MMMatt Maruca6:44

       And he, he has basically looked at what is life at the deepest level, uh, in this book called The Vital Question, by looking at where did life start and how did it start, you know, based on the most advanced, uh, available research. And so what he found is that, you know, most likely of all the theories, life began in these vents at the bottom of the ocean, but they weren't these like super turbulent crazy vents like, uh, called black smokers that some people think. They were actually these vents that have a very slow percolation of these fluids from inside of the Earth out, and they meet with the ocean water, and it's a mineral kind of vent where there's tons of pores, tons of tiny holes throughout this vent where this ocean water can meet this alkaline fluid from in the Earth and it causes all sorts of chemical reactions to occur over time, over time, over time. And so what he was able to find, and they've been able to replicate this on a tabletop or a benchtop reactor in their labs, is that this alkaline fluid, when it meets this more acidic ocean water, there's a what they call like a proton gradient. So there's more protons in the seawater than there is in this fluid coming from the Earth. And anytime you have more of a, an atom essentially in one place meeting with an atom from another place, they wanna mix to even out. Just like, you know, anything you, you mix together, uh, the, the ... Eventually all the chemicals balance out, they even out, you know. So, so that, that difference, the gradient they call it, is like a potential source of energy. 'Cause when ... Let's just say you had a ton of people in a room and then no one in the other room, they, they might be so packed they wanna just kind of migrate into the other room. And so there's like energy there. If you had them go through a revolving door that generated electricity, it would actually ... Their movement would make energy. That's the general idea, right? So that's kind of what was happening in these vents. And that energy that was present was actually causing certain molecules to react in certain ways that formed wh- the first what they call organic molecules, carbon hydrogen based molecules that eventually started to form like, uh, they, they started to just based on the principles of physics, they started to assemble themselves into these structures, and these structures are what we would call like a proto-cell, a, a pre-life cell almost that was dependent on this energy gradient in these vents. But eventually just based on physics and m- molecules, uh, naturally want to bond in certain ways to form more complex structures that are more energetically favorable for the universe in some way, you know, given the energy available in that environment, eventually these cells developed sort of innovations where they didn't have to depend on that energy in this vent, in this, this sort of natural energy source. So they almost became like, like a baby who was like weaned off of its mother and was able to be free. And so the way that these cells make, basically make a living, if you wanna put it like that, 'cause that's really what it is, you know, I'll say I do this job to make a living, you know, this ... But at the end of the day, the, the cell is making a living by taking, uh, molecules in the environment that, or atoms even, that wanna react together. Particles we could say. But they can't because of their current configuration. So a better way to put that is to think about a fire for example. When you have fire, you have hydrogen that's stored in wood or gasoline or anything you can burn, which is always an organic fuel source, whether it's s- fossil fuel from millions of years ago that was living organisms or like a tree that you just cut down. That's a lot of hydrogen stored on the carbon backbone there. And then you have oxygen in the air. The hydrogens and the oxygens would love to react together to make water, but they can only make water once you start freeing the hydrogens from their backbone source. So you add a spark, and a spark is energy to cause the hydrogens to break free, and as soon as they do they start reacting with the free oxygen in the air, they start making water, and that reaction releases energy because the molecules are now more satisfied in their new configuration. So they release energy. It's called an exothermic reaction. And that reaction basically, uh, because of that release of energy, that release acts as the next spark to perpetuate the reaction. So in fire, you know, you only need one spark if it's a easily combustible fuel source and it'll go forever. So how does that go back to life? Well, that's what these organisms were doing. They're finding all kinds of different pairs. This pair is hydrogen and oxygen, it's called a redox couple, causing them to react together and then, uh, extracting energy from that reaction to fuel more reactions. It's basically what life does. So life was always limited though to the size of a bacteria and an archaea, which is a very simple molecule, or a very simple organism I should say. We can't even see them with our eye, right? But we're composed of billions of them essentially, trillions. So how did we go from that super-duper simple organism to something so complex that we can't even see what we used to be because it's so much smaller than us, right? Well, basically two different organisms merged. So th- their ... The primary function of, of one of these bacteria, one of these cells, was basically it had to extract energy from the environment and use that energy to basically maintain and replicate its own genome, 'cause that means it's expressing all of its functions as an organism, right? Now that process is very energy expensive, so just based on the amount of energy that even the most efficient one of these organisms could extract, it- it was very limited. Now what happened is...... two of these organisms actually merged and basically made, like, a deal a long, long, long time ago. And because of this deal that they made, all complex life today that's bigger than a bacteria and an archaea, all plants, all animals, and all fungus come from this merger. So basically, what happened is it's, it, it would be like if you were really good at structure and function and building things, but you weren't good at making energy or going out and scavenging, you might say, if you have a group of people, you might say, "Hey, guys, I'm gonna build us a house. I'm gonna take care of all that stuff, 'cause I'm the brains here. Uh, but you guys are really good at going out foraging in, in the wilderness and getting all the food and stuff, and I'm not so good at that. So, you guys do that all day, and I'm just gonna build a house." Uh, the, uh, the effective equivalent would be, for the bacteria, would be if every single bacteria was both building its own house and going out and getting all of its nutrients. Now, because you're a genius builder, you can build a house big enough for a thousand of them, and now they don't have to use all that energy required of building that house. All that energy can go out to foraging food. So basically, what happened is bacteria that used to have a thousand genes, they cut their genes down to about 13 genes, and then you only had to keep two copies of those thousand genes, two copies instead of one, so that you could have sexual reproduction, so you could recombine them and make variations for improved survivability. So, you have now convinced these people to basically be your s- your slaves, but it's a mutual benefit, 'cause they get your energy, so you need them too. And now, you have all of their energy that's freed up from them each building their own house, all for energy production. So, that energy production now that's freed up allows you to build a significantly more complex house, way, way, way more complex, like, thousands of times more. And that energy savings is essentially what allowed complex life to get where we are. And so, all of our functions in a living organism, like I said from the beginning, it's all dependent on this production of energy. Like, if you have energy, you know you feel great, but it actually means that everything's working well. And if you don't have energy, you're gonna feel bad, but it also means that things aren't working well, and you probably have diseases 'cause your body can't carry out all of its functions properly. Just like a government that doesn't have enough funds to carry out all of its, of all of its programs, it's gonna have to cut those programs. That's what happens in our body when we lack energy. So, the whole thing tied together for me when I sort of started to get this stuff and start to understand it, it was like, okay, well, there's this perspective in medicine that if you have a problem, it's because your genes are bad. But this new researcher from Philadelphia, where I'm from, or he's based in Philadelphia now, has shown that actually all the modern diseases that they fail to find a cure for or a cause of in the genes are

2. 15:00 – 30:00

   I love it, man.…

   1. MMMatt Maruca15:00

      actually caused by damaged energy production systems, so that we don't have enough energy to carry out our genes properly, you know? So, the genes aren't bad necessarily. Very few percentage, like less than 10% of diseases, even less than 5%, are genetic, like Tay-Sachs, sickle cell anemia, cystic fibrosis, you know, that kind of disease. Down syndrome, for example. But the majority of diseases, so like the ones we're facing today, now I'm talking chronic diseases, so we're not talking about, like, infectious diseases like, uh, COVID-19 or malaria. We're not talking about those diseases. The diseases that most, that kill most people today are heart disease, diabetes, obesity, Alzheimer's, um, you know, neurodegenerative disease, autoimmune diseases, Parkinson's, cancer, uh, autism with kids, uh, you know, that kind of thing, those aren't, like, contagious, right? It's just the body failing. So, what he's, this Dr. Wallace, has shown is it's actually the mitochondria, the engines are failing. And so to get back to the, the original question, like, how does this work, uh, why do we wanna focus on the engines and not just the fuel, it's because the clear evidence is that our disease epidemic today... And also instead of focusing just on diseases, if you wanna have health, it's dependent on how well your energy producers who are going out and scavenging and foraging for all your energy while you're building the house, how well are they working. And so light is actually one of the main factors, if not the main factor, that controls how well our en- our engines can make energy. So, if you live indoors, they don't work as well. If you're out in the sun, they actually work way, way better. And that simple change affects how well we can actually take the food that we're eating and actually turn it into whatever we wanna make it into, and how well we can process it. So, that's sort of the, the, the deep overview, you know, of-

   2. CWChris Williamson16:52

      I love it, man.

   3. MMMatt Maruca16:53

      ... why do we wanna do this.

   4. CWChris Williamson16:54

      That's cool. I like the little trip back a couple of billion years down to-

   5. MMMatt Maruca16:59

      Yeah, right? (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson17:00

      Is that jump, you know, you were talking about where the two different, um, cells join together, is that the prokaryotic to eukaryotic leap?

   7. MMMatt Maruca17:10

      Exactly, yeah. It was that-

   8. CWChris Williamson17:12

      Yes.

   9. MMMatt Maruca17:12

      ... leap.

   10. CWChris Williamson17:12

       Yes. I knew, that's my, that's me dropping knowledge bombs for you there, Matt. You didn't think I knew about prokaryotic and eu- I can't even pronounce it. Those two.

   11. MMMatt Maruca17:20

       Prokaryotic, you got it.

   12. CWChris Williamson17:21

       I got it.

   13. MMMatt Maruca17:21

       You got it.

   14. CWChris Williamson17:22

       Don't worry. That's, uh, that's from Nick Bostrom, author of Superintelligence for you there. Um...

   15. MMMatt Maruca17:27

       Get a little college biochemistry coming in there.

   16. CWChris Williamson17:30

       Don't you worry. Don't worry about me. I'm multifaceted, Matt, you know?

   17. MMMatt Maruca17:32

       (laughs)

   18. CWChris Williamson17:32

       All these things in the locker. Why-

   19. MMMatt Maruca17:35

       (laughs)

   20. CWChris Williamson17:35

       Why is light so important in this case? We're not a plant. I don't need to photosynthesize. The-

   21. MMMatt Maruca17:42

       Actually, you do. (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson17:44

       Fuck. Right, okay, t- tell me about... That's it. My prokaryotic card's been used up. I've g- I'm on, I'm on your hands now, Matt.

   23. MMMatt Maruca17:53

       (laughs) All right, dude.

   24. CWChris Williamson17:54

       Why light? Why's, why's light matter?

   25. MMMatt Maruca17:56

       So, it's really interesting. Actually, at the beginning of life, we actually weren't even exposed to sunlight. So, in these vents, there's not much sunlight getting down there. So, I've asked the question to myself too, how did light become so important? Well-

   26. CWChris Williamson18:09

       Why, why is it so fundamental if we never had it when it began?

   27. MMMatt Maruca18:12

       Exactly. So, very good question. So actually, what, what turns out is that we actually did have it when we began, it was just a different type of light. So-... all of the energy, there's a ton of energy inside of the Earth, which is, um, moving molten core of all kinds of minerals and things. It's, it's ridiculously hot and moving and molten. And so that's a different kind of light, it's infrared light, which we also call heat. So all that movement, these flows of these, um, fluids in these vents that were i- initially catalyzing the reactions for life, it was actually driven by light still, but by infrared light. And so this had a very big impact, which to be honest has to be studied a lot more because it just isn't something people have been investing into. You know, these forward thinking researchers like this guy Nick Lane often don't get the kind of funding that their work should just because, you know, all the funding's going into drugs and all this stuff, which is a big issue. But at the end of the day, infrared light was the main driver of that flow of energy down at the... in these vents causing this water to be really, really, really hot. It was not cold water. It was probably thousands of degrees, right? So that is... if that water or that heat, that light energy stored in the water wasn't actually there, it's very unlikely that these sort of reactions would've taken place in... at all. So light was critical and still is critical. A good way of putting it is that light is, is a visible range of what everyone calls and knows as just energy, right? So this whole conversation we're having about energy and energy production and if your energy producers work well, those, uh, those basically servants that we took into ourselves, which we outsourced our energy production to them, but we still need it to stay alive so again, we need them to work well. If that energy doesn't work well, we have diseases. If it does work really well, we don't. Th- the, the best way to put it is that, again, light is just a form of energy that we can see. There's tons of energy in the spectrum that we actually can't see. So at, at a basic level as it... any, any reaction in physics proceeds more effectively usually, uh, or almost always with, with more energy. So like for example, you know, you know that if you have more energy, you feel better and you can do more things. That's a really high level way of explaining it. But if you're in a chemical reaction discussion, especially in living organisms, a lot of the time there are these things called enzymes that lower the energy required for a reaction to happen because again, you need an initial input of energy to make reactions basically proceed. So w- when you're an organism, if you get an additional source of energy that you can utilize, it's a huge win because you can actually do stuff with that. So, um, when these organisms moved out of the bottoms of the oceans up towards the sun, it's essentially something that would allow these organisms to become more complex. And there's some really good evidence actually that indicates that when the sun went through a change in its age, the sun started to put off more ultraviolet light. And this coincides really nicely, and this is something based o- uh, you know, that Dr. Kruse has explained very thoroughly in his work, this increase in UV light actually links very nicely with this thing called the Cambrian explosion, which is a time when life actually started to get significantly more complex on Earth. This, this c- in... explosion in the complexity of life was actually driven by this increased availability of light energy that living organisms could utilize. So the whole... The bea- the best way to put it is that although we didn't have full spectrum sunlight in the beginning that was driving our life, as we evolved we started using light to get to the level of complexity where we are now. And once... Just like the government, once you have a certain amount of taxpayer dollars to start funding certain programs, you're gonna build up all these, you know, the different departments, department of taxes, department of agriculture, all these different departments. If you cut the initial taxpayer dollars that allowed those organizations to be created, the organiza- organizations are gonna have to go away too. So it's like light is so critical because our existence evolved based on the availability of light and we used it to basically, uh, to... It, i- i- ra- It's weird to say we used it because it's more like it just pushed the process forward. The light drove the process and we're still dependent on that exposure to light. So that's kind of like a more high level overview. Does that make sense?

   28. CWChris Williamson23:08

       Yeah. Yeah, it does. Still to me coming at it as someone who's never thought about light as an energy source for us... For me, energy is caffeine and, and food. Like that's my, that's my two sources of energy. And sleep I suppose as well as a human. But I don't think about light, I don't think, "I need... I'm f- feeling a little bit tired today, it's because I haven't been out in the sun." Like that's not natural to me, that's not just part of my, uh, existing paradigm of understanding the inputs that change the way that I operate. So what did you look into that demonstrates the actual effects of sunlight and some of your personal experiences as well to do with changing your exposure to sunlight?

   29. MMMatt Maruca23:52

       Yeah, so, so this is where again some of the amazing work of Dr. Kruse comes into play now. The, the coolest thing about ab- about Dr. Kruse, and I'm mentioning him quite a lot here 'cause we are getting a lot into the science, you're asking really good questions, is that he takes... he's taken... You know, he's very modest. He'll say, "I'm not a genius. I just shine the flashlight on the researchers who are doing, you know, really great work." So there's, for example, a guy in Germany who studies the biologic effects of light who has been putting together some, uh, really amazing concepts that have been studied for a long time in a simple way that people can understand. There's also...... dozens of researchers on the health effects of light and the importance of light in, in biology for the last 100 to 200 years. Um, I can't name all of them. We'll just bring them up as they come along. But so separately from all the theory we've been talking about, right, evolution and this and that, what these, uh, there's, there's different angles you can use to approach a problem, right? You can say, um, you can say let's look at the history, the historical evidence. But you can also say why don't we look at, uh, the actual real-life application today. So like you said, let's, let's look at that. That's kind of really interesting and, and we can use the historical stuff to understand that better and why it is. But at the end of the day if you don't, if someone doesn't believe in evolution you can just say here's the facts, you know. Light affects the body in this way whether it's God or the universe or evolution or genesis, whatever it is, this is how it is based on science and data. And even the Catholic Church is very much a fan of science, you know, at least in general. They're, they, they, you know, even if they-

   30. CWChris Williamson25:24

       They've all got mobile phones, right?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Would make it worse.…

   1. MMMatt Maruca30:00

      um, they would use, they tried to isolate sunlight so they just used isolated ultraviolet light, which without the full spectrum of sunlight and the healing light, it would actually become damaging. And so these babies would develop problems with their eyes and so on, and so they started to say that UV light, ultraviolet light from the sun or just in general causes cancer.

   2. CWChris Williamson30:19

      Would make it worse.

   3. MMMatt Maruca30:19

      Yeah, it causes cancer. Well it, it might heal the, the jaundice but it would cause cancer, cataracts, all these things. So sunlight started to get a really bad rap, and this was the same time that antibiotics were developed, you no longer needed sunlight to kill bacteria. So basically sunlight was thrown out the window for the next 70 years, leading up until today when you have guys like Dr. Alexander Wunsch in Germany kind of resurfacing all this research. So the best way to put it to answer your question is, I learned about, um, someone who was teaching these ideas, right? I mentioned Dr. Kruse. And then I started reading from all these different experts who he was kind of shining a light on, and it just was like, "Whoa, sunlight was known to be important, it's always been important." In fact, some people even believe that, uh, and I'm, I'm sort of of this tribe almost, that, that when we're exposed to sun in a certain manner, it actually elevates our consciousness or our potential for consciousness significantly because of its effects on our pineal gland, increased production of serotonin, melatonin. Which if you, if you ever listen to like Joe Dispenza, he talks about how melatonin allows us to change our brain waves and get into a more elevated state of consciousness. And there was an Egyptian pharaoh named Akhenaten who basically his name meant the worship of the Aten, which is the sun disc. And he built an entire city around this, uh, you know, sun worship but, and this is more of a conspiracy theory type of thing, but p- once he died, his name was removed from the list of pharaohs. And the reason why people believe is that th- they didn't want the masses to know about how you could use sunlight to basically increase your consciousness and not be as easily controlled. You know, when you've got people to cover their, their... in particular when you get people to cover their, um, sex organs from sunlight, they become more docile, because you're making less testosterone and so on. So just you could almost posit that the innovation of clothing was to make us like a more docile species, so that we could function more effectively in, you know, units and civilization without so much conflict and, you know, testosterone-loaded men and women who are, you know, e- less submissive and all this stuff. So again, that's more down the conspiracy theory route, although the evidence is there. So all this stuff, dude, I was like, "Wow, there's a lot more to this." And then if you combine that with some of the more recent work on how, you know, photobiomodulation makes our mitochondria just work better because they utilize this free energy, you're just like, "Holy mackerel." How, how does everyone come to believe that the thing that literally drove evolution for us causes cancer? And the data isn't even there to support it. It's a sunscreen, sunglasses and dermatology industry belief system that they're perpetuating. Just like pharmaceutical companies say you need drugs to heal your diseases. Everyone knows that not- that's not true, or most people know that's not true at this point, or at least... uh, actually that's not true, most people believe it, but in our community people aren't believing it. So you get the idea. People aren't aware of this dermatology whole thing going on with sunglasses and sunscreen, but they're hiding the truth about light.

   4. CWChris Williamson33:27

      You've mentioned there that it's not just light through the eyes, but light on the skin. So you've talked about... I mean, the sex organ thing is gonna be at least a little bit prohibitive for some people, you know, you want to go to the park, have a little walk around, but there's a playground nearby and you, you don't have time-

   5. MMMatt Maruca33:45

      Yeah, I know. (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson33:45

      ... you don't have time to get sun on your schlong.

   7. MMMatt Maruca33:47

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson33:49

      Um, (laughs) you'll notice, everyone that is watching will notice that we both have a pair of your company's glasses on, Ra Optics. Thank you very much for sending these out to me.

   9. MMMatt Maruca33:56

      Oh, my pleasure.

   10. CWChris Williamson33:56

       Before we get, before we get deeper into the light diet and how people can apply some of these lessons, we've looked at the science which I think is really cool, and I like contextualizing stuff before we get into the particulars, um, I want to sort of give my experience with specifically the red glasses that you have. And we can kind of loop back to why they're that way. Um, I've never used an advanced pair of blue-blocking glasses before. And I'm not even kidding you, man, the first time that I put those red glasses on, within 45 minutes of putting them on, I'm like told my housemate I'm like, "Dude, I'm gonna have to go to bed. I need to go to sleep."

   11. MMMatt Maruca34:30

       Yeah.

   12. CWChris Williamson34:30

       It was about nine o'clock at night. I'm not used to being tired until 11 o'clock.

   13. MMMatt Maruca34:34

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson34:34

       I was like, "Bro, I'm gonna have to go." And I thought, "Ah, placebo effect, screw you, blah, blah, blah. Like, I'll give it another crack in a couple of nights' time or whatever." And I've just kept on wearing them religiously each night. And I don't, I don't blow smoke up products' arses, like I don't need to. Um, there is... I don't know what it is, I'm nowhere near educated enough to work out what the hell's going on-

   15. MMMatt Maruca34:54

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson34:54

       ... but there is something happening when I put those on. Maybe you've embedded some, uh, little compound in the ear bit that's like-

   17. MMMatt Maruca35:02

       (laughs)

   18. CWChris Williamson35:02

       ... seeping into my brain.

   19. MMMatt Maruca35:03

       Yeah, exactly.

   20. CWChris Williamson35:03

       Or I don't know what it is. Uh, but something is happening when I put those glasses on, when I start to change the way that light comes into my eyes on an evening time. And I thought, we've talked tons on this podcast and everyone that's listening will know about night mode on your iPhone and sun- sunrise, sunset, yellow light and stuff like that on your laptop. And I thought, "Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm used to this. I have got, I've got an idea what's going on." And then started playing around with that and I was like, "Okay, maybe I don't quite actually know all that much about what's happening at the moment." Um, so yeah, we've talked about light coming into our eyes and I wanted to bring that up because both of us have these glasses on, but how important is your, are your eyes, uh, to the sun, uh, reception versus your skin and your body and other stuff like that?

   21. MMMatt Maruca35:51

       Dude, you're loaded, you're full of good questions. That's an amazing question. So it's, uh... (laughs) yeah, there you go. So it is, uh, very, very important. In fact, a recent book I read about light from one of the foremost experts in the world who's based in, uh, Hawaii, he was basically saying that actually 98% of the light in the body enters through the eye. Which I was like, "What?" Because I've always thought, yeah, the eye is critical and I've believed that, but I didn't... You know, you know, the skin, we also absorb quite a lot through the skin. So I was thinking, "Wow, that's-"

   22. CWChris Williamson36:22

       It's a bigger surface area, right? How big are your eyes, maybe two centimeters squared?

   23. MMMatt Maruca36:26

       ... barely. Yeah, I mean, the pupil is even half a centimeter, if that, you know. But the, uh ... Yeah, you're right, the, the skin is the biggest organ in the body. So that was a bit shocking. I'd have to actually do a little bit more digging in, into wh- how h- ... you know, if I quite understand the way he's explaining that. But here is the thing that's really interesting though, is the skin is designed to generally, you know, block out substances, you know, protect our internal stuff from the e- and separate us from the external world, right? So even with light, uh, the skin has melanin in it, which is this natural pigment that actually ... Well, there's different views on melanin. There's some really new interesting views. But in general, melanin protects us from ultraviolet light and excess, you know. So that's why if you sunbathe, uh, you get the stimulus to make more melanocytes, which make more melanin, which give you a nice tan. And the top layer of our skin cells actually die and scatter their DNA, and this is super interesting, is that another bit of the research I didn't mention about the deep science and light over the last 100 years is that being that we are actually beings of light, and this is a great thing to mention, our cells actually communicate with ultraviolet light. So there were some people trying to figure out, like, what causes cells to divide and, you know, how does that stimulus happen, and eventually, through a huge series of experiments, they determined that it was very clearly that it was low frequency ultraviolet light pulses that the cells actually generate themselves. So our cells actually make their own light. They generate this light, and that causes cell division, mit- mitosis and meiosis to occur. And so, um, then these researchers ... Back in the day, there was a couple. One was named Alexander Gurwitsch, a Russian guy, and one guy named Fritz Albert Popp or Al- ... Yeah, Fritz Albert Popp. He was doing this research, and actually this frame called Popp is named after him. Your f- your frame, Wallace, is named after the mitochondrial researcher I was mentioning earlier. So they, um, they discovered this and they started studying. Holy shit, this is insane. You know, all the properties of biophotons in our organism. And they found, for example, some amazing things, like when a cell is sick, when an, uh ... yeah, a cell or an organism is sick, the light that it em- is emitting is, is less coherent. It's kind of more chaotic, whereas when you have a healthy organism, its light, kind of just like our brain waves being less coherent when we're stressed versus more coherent when we're in a meditation, the light is more coherent in a healthy cell. So kind of like a, a sick cell is leaking light. It's lost its ability to retain light very well. Even more interesting for me was that they found that when an organism actually died, it was leaking a lot of this light for many hours. So it's like when you die, it's the ultimate loss of your body's ability to contain your light and use your light, so you leak it all out. And this is getting into a spiritual territory, but when I read that I was like, "Whoa, didn't they say in the, in the Bible and all these spiritual texts that when you die, your soul leaves your body? And these researchers found that when you die, your cells are leaking light, and the soul is light, and the spirit is light, and G- God is love and light?" It's like, huh, very interesting. So very cool connections from that work. But how does that relate back to, you know, your question of, of light coming through the eye? Well, the, the, the, the topic of through the s- of the skin is that our DNA, it communicates with light, but so when we use it, we can use it as an effective sunscreen is the point. It, it very well absorbs light, takes the high energy ultraviolet, and then re-emits it essentially as infrared, which is healing, right? So, so that's how it works. Now, back to your question about the eye and why that's so important. Well, again, the skin is, is more, more blocking out light than it is letting it in, but the eye is black, and the reason it's black is because it lets all of the light in, you know? If it, if it reflected it all, it would be white, but it lets it all in. That's why it's black. And so that's really fascinating. That means we are absorbing a ton of light through the eye. And the best way to put that question without getting way too deep into science is that you could think of our eye both as the charging socket ... Just like an iPhone, it's the charging plug on the bottom of the iPhone, and it's the information plug, so both and also ... Well, the, the visual stuff we have is also information, but ... So some people don't think about the eye as m- anything more than just a camera to see, but before it was a camera to see color vision, the eye was more of, like, a general sensor for us to know is it day, is it night, you know, even before we had what we would consider eyes. We just had sensors from which the eyes evolved to know is it day, is it night, 'cause when you can tell about that basic change in the environment, you can adapt better to all the things that need to happen, right? So that's the eye's first function, was actually more like a sensor and a clock rather than a camera. And within the sensor function, the eye actually just ... We're able to receive light energy, and it's able to help advance a lot of chemical reactions in the brain that don't proceed as quickly if the light isn't there. So for example, the production of serotonin, this wakefulness hormone, um, the production of a lot of our sex hormones is optimized and stimulated through light coming through the eye. The production of a opio- uh, effectively an opioid, uh, hormone, or I should say chemical in our body called beta-endorphin is like a natural painkiller, a natural endorphin that makes us feel good. When people don't get any sunlight, you're gonna have none of your own natural endorphins, and so you're gonna need to literally use something like crystal meth or c- like cocaine or crack or heroin, all the drugs that h- We have a huge epidemic in the United States right now of opiates, um, because no one's getting sunlight, and it's especially bad in one of the darkest, cloudiest places in the country, the Pacific Northwest, Idaho, Washington. So it kinda makes sense given that we're not only not going outside and getting sun, we're additionally s- putting the wrong signals into our eyes with artificial light. So we're getting all this blue light from our screens, which is instead of saying, "Make these hormones heal your body," you know, "This is the time of the day. Do this now. Do this later." And all these different things. "Sleep now. Regenerate. Repair." Instead, we're just getting this chronic primarily blue light stimulus from our screen devices, which is saying, "Be stressed out.... make more cortisol stress hormone, and create more oxidative damage in the cells without the red and infrared light to balance it, which is always present in the sun to balance the blue and the ultraviolet light, which is a little more damaging if you, if you don't have the red and infrared. Um, so it's basically like we're getting one component of sun, which when it's in the sun, the blue, it's beneficial for a lot of things, but it's balanced by red and infrared in our body, the healing red and infrared. When we're getting it from these screens, none of them emit any red and infrared. The only light sources that emit red and infrared are fire and candles, which can be very good to get some of that, uh, especially at night to use candles in your house. Uh, but also old incandescent bulbs, you know, the, the ones people used to use in their houses before LEDs and fluorescents, those are also pretty good compared to LEDs. They're not the best, they're not as good as sunlight. And so that's kind of like a good overview of light coming through the eyes, controlling all these processes in the body. It's controlling our circadian rhythm, first and foremost, our biologic clock, which controls a ton of hormones. It's actually powering a lot of processes, increasing the stimulus of, uh, for certain hormones and neuro- neurotransmitters. And then, like you said about the, the glasses at night, Joe Dispenza, again, he als- ... And a lot of people might relate to Joe Dispenza's work 'cause he's totally life-changing. I've been actually going through his progressive course lately. He talks about how when you wake up in the morning, the light stimulates your optic nerve and it communicates with your brain, and that causes your brain waves to change. You make serotonin to wake up, right? Well, when you remove... It's specifically the blue wavelengths that stimulate this part of the system. That's why we have blue blockers and not just bl- like, complete black eye mask-

   24. CWChris Williamson44:25

       Eyemask. Yeah.

   25. MMMatt Maruca44:25

       ... that blocks all the light. Yeah, exactly. You block the blue, you get rid of the, the stimulus that drives the majority of that process that Doctor Dispenza talks about, and now your brain thinks it's dark and so you make more melatonin rather than serotonin because that blue light stimulus is no longer present. And that's really the best way to put it. So the eye is ki- you know, and one more thing to add is, like, in the Bible, it even says, you know, for those who are a fan of the Bible, it says the lamp or the light of the body is the eye, and therefore if your eye is clear or clean,

4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   That's cool, man. Two…

   1. MMMatt Maruca45:00

      then your whole body will be full of light. And literally, it couldn't be more accurate. The eye is like the lamp of the body. The light comes in and l- illuminates the entire inside.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:11

      That's cool, man. Two things that I've learned about the eyes over the last couple of years. First one being there's 14 million sense cells in the body and 11 million of them are dedicated to sight, and we are the only primates, potentially the only mammals, but definitely the only primates that have white around our eyes. The reason that we have that is because of how social beings we are. We want to be able to see when someone is looking at us. We want to have extra expressive eyes. An awful lot is able to be told through the eyes. If you've ever watched that, uh, I think it's that liar, uh, police TV program where the guy's able to detect micro movements. Oh, he looked slightly down and to the left and there was a s- a little flutter of this happening. And it's all, it's all fiction, but super cool and kind of just extrapolates out what some people have a natural, uh, capacity for. Um, the reason that we have white around the eyes is that I can see where you're looking. I can tell if you are fearful or interested or, uh, deceptive or whatever it might be. Whereas if the, um, area around the eye was black, I wouldn't be able to detect that eye movement as much. So a lot of it is to do with this reciprocal altruism, uh, and the trust bearing, uh, between different people. So we've talked about this-

   3. MMMatt Maruca46:27

      That's fascinating, by the way. Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson46:28

      That's cool as fuck, isn't it? Yeah, the, uh, the one about the, uh, sense cells is from James Clear's Atomic Habits. Uh, I can't remember who told me that one. Everyone will know. It was on this podcast anyway. We've talked about the science that underpins all of this stuff. How can people apply this to their life? We've got a lot of information that we've gone through there. What are... Actually, first thing, what are the biggest mistakes that normal people make with light? What are the most common mistakes that you people... that you see people making?

   5. MMMatt Maruca47:00

      That's actually an amazing question. So I, I made those mistakes for the whole of, of my young life, and so I can definitely ex- express those, uh, after having learned about it. So probably the biggest, and again, speaking from what I made and then we, I can see what other, you know, I can say what others are doing, but just so people know that, like, I'm not some perfect person here who has got it all figured out, right? No. We're just, we're all learning a- along the way. So, uh, the biggest thing is not getting any sunlight. I mean, honestly, that's, I would say that's probably the biggest, one of the two biggest, not getting any sunlight, because like we discussed, light from the sun is kind of this almost free energy source that drove a lot of evolution. And even you could argue, because we evolved in s- in e- equatorial Africa drove the evolution of the human brain. And so when certain humans went, like, way further north, like obviously, you know, uh, uh, Europeans who have light skin, the reason our skin is white, like people gotta think about this. This is a very basic concept that people don't even consider. It seem- it's like... How can I say? People take this for granted is a good way to put it. Our skin became light because we wanted to absorb more sunlight. It was a beneficial adaptation to be able to live in a very cloudy place for a long time and we weren't getting our vitamin D through our diet like Inuit people, 'cause there's Inuit people who also live very far north in Canada and Africa, or not Africa. What am I saying? Uh, Canada and Asia-

   6. CWChris Williamson48:28

      The Arctic.

   7. MMMatt Maruca48:28

      ... the north of Asia, the Arctic, right? So they eat so much seafood that they are able to actually get a lot of vitamin D from their seafood, so they didn't necessarily have to have lighter skin. And there's other reasons too. But Europeans, especially inland in Germany and so on, weren't necessarily eating a ton of seafood, and so that, uh-... it, uh, adaptation to get lighter skin to be able to make vitamin D through the skin, uh, more and more and more, 'cause we all do it, but we can do it more with this adaptation, is tremendously beneficial and allowed Europeans to thrive at a very high latitude compared to where we evolved.

   8. CWChris Williamson49:05

      Does that mean that s- does that mean that Black families are at a greater risk of vitamin D deficiency?

   9. MMMatt Maruca49:10

      Yes, very, very, well, uh, well said. It is exactly correct, and that is part of the reason that I believe, Dr. Kruse believes, other researchers believe that African, uh, American people have been more effectively by COVID-19, almost double in the United States, because they were moved from their natural environment during slavery and all these terrible times. Um, so that they're ... You know, if you live in the south of the United States, you'll get more sun, although in the winter it's still not enough compared to what these people's, uh, skin has been evolved for essentially, and now this-

   10. CWChris Williamson49:46

       That evolution, your heritage has a mismatch at the moment, right? Yeah.

   11. MMMatt Maruca49:49

       Exactly, yeah. And it's ... And, and you could say the same thing like, um, if I go to a really sunny place, I have more sun present, so I can burn and have an increased rate of skin cancer if I'm doing the wrong things, if I'm only getting the strong midday sun. Here's another thing regarding the eye we didn't talk about. That's, uh, stimulus for a tan to make more, uh, melanocyte-stimulating hormone, which stimulates the melanin. The signal for that hormone is through the eye, light through the eye. So if you wear sunglasses and block the light, the UV light coming into the eye in the summer when you're out in the sun, your bod- your brain isn't gonna stimulate, um, it isn't gonna create as much melanocyte-stimulating hormone to make the melanocytes to make more melanin in the skin, and therefore you're increasing your rate of s- your risk for skin cancer by wearing sunglasses, because you're no longer getting the protective signal from the light to actually signal your skin. So sunglasses-

   12. CWChris Williamson50:42

       So you're telling me when I'm, when I'm sunbathing this summer and I need to supercharge my tan, take the glasses off. That's what you're saying.

   13. MMMatt Maruca50:49

       Yes. Do not ... I would recommend not wearing sunglasses in general unless it's like, uh, you're at a ski slope and it's in short periods and you're getting tons of light reflecting where it could be blinding, or, you know, if, I mean, obviously if you're driving a car and you're getting blinded, you might want to tone down the light. The thing is when you're driving a car, the windows are already ... If the windows are up, the light's already being distorted, so putting on sunglasses isn't necessarily gonna make a huge difference at that point. But it's when you're out sunbathing in particular or just out on a walk, if you do not need them, don't wear them. And especially, people say, "Oh, my eyes water." So did mine. When I was like th- 12 years old, I remember that I could barely even keep my eyes open on a sunny, bright summer day, and actually that system, uh, uh, the tearing is just a mechanism of the eye to cool its surface so that it can actually better assimilate the light that's there. And again, as you work that muscle, um, and eat a healthier diet and various other factors with like natural seafood in the diet to get the omega-3 in your eye, which is where we concentrate most of our omega-3 along with our nerves for our brain, um, that's where you, you get it. So, so let's get back to, you know, we were talking about-

   14. CWChris Williamson51:57

       Biggest, biggest problems that people take is they don't get enough sunlight.

   15. MMMatt Maruca52:00

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson52:00

       What you've mentioned is that that's not ... that's not just looking at sunlight. You work in an office and you can see the outdoors out of your window.

   17. MMMatt Maruca52:08

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson52:09

       That is sun from sun to eye, no stops in between. Like, uh, on the Monopoly board, do not pass go, do not reflect off the building opposite me, go straight into my eye-

   19. MMMatt Maruca52:19

       Yes.

   20. CWChris Williamson52:19

       ... go straight into my skin.

   21. MMMatt Maruca52:21

       Yes. You want, uh, direct sunlight exposure. So again, here's the cool thing is that if it's the winter, you know, Dr. Alexander Wunsch from Germany, he t- he was like pretty much the leading expert in the world right now, he o- on, on light's effect on the body, or photobiology is the field, he told me that he believes minimum two hours of unfiltered sunlight exposure per day at least on the eye is good. And that, that doesn't mean looking directly at the sun.

   22. CWChris Williamson52:44

       (laughs) That's about ...

   23. MMMatt Maruca52:45

       And you're, you're-

   24. CWChris Williamson52:46

       Yeah, not ... That is not the piece of advice to take away from this podcast.

   25. MMMatt Maruca52:48

       No. No, do not look directly at the sun. You can do it if it's sunrise or sunset, because that's where actually really a beneficial stimulus to let the light go straight through your retina, but only for the first 15 to 30 minutes after sun rising over the horizon and setting over the horizon, not after coming over a big mountain that's next to your house, 'cause then it's gonna be a way higher angle. And when it's at a higher angle, it has more UV, and that's when it can actually burn your eye. When it comes over the horizon, people ask this question all the time, it's filtered by so much atmosphere, that's why it's actually more orange than it is yellow or white. And so, uh, the s- for the same reason a lot of the high energy blue and the high energy ultraviolet are totally not present for that first 15 to 20 minutes where it looks more golden. So you can look at a- uh, at the sun directly at that time. It's called sun gazing. You can Google safe way to sun gaze and look at these videos. Again, I'm not a medical doctor, so this isn't medical advice, but that has been found to be tremendously beneficial. So like you said, biggest problems, not getting sunlight is huge, huge risk. So not getting sunlight is one. Another is wearing sunglasses. That's another huge, huge, huge risk. Um, and then I would say one of the biggest ones that I've started to learn more and study more into lately is actually misusing our inner light or abusing our inner light. So we talk about this more during the steps of the Light Diet, uh, but what I mean by that is if you ... You know, I've gone through this, uh, still working through plenty of stuff, you know, with, with my own, uh, life and always will be just like everyone. You know, you're always working to be better and undo your emotional things that you picked up from your childhood when you were in that easily programmable state. But if we choose to, like Joe Dispenza talks about, if we choose to keep buying into that same belief, we're actually creating an emotional chronically stressed state in our brain. And like what we talked about earlier, that's causing the cells to constantly leak light. So you could be sunbathing all the time, getting more light in and feeling high from that, but if you have these belief systems or you're chronically in a state of fear, which is somewhere I've been before just...... from not even having a real thing to be afraid about, but just from, like, some, you know, childhood experience that made me insecure about money or this or that. Like, you're gonna, you're gonna drain yourself no matter what you're doing. So, that's probably the second-biggest mistake that, that is also generally wouldn't be looked at by many h- people in the health world. Um, another way of phrasing that would be, like, not taking care of your soul, you know? Like, not putting the time into the stuff that truly lights you up and, and you love, which I've also been a, a I've been guilty of with working on my business so much.

   26. CWChris Williamson55:26

       Everyone is, man. Everyone is.

   27. MMMatt Maruca55:26

       You know?

   28. CWChris Williamson55:26

       There's, there's things that you get to do and there's things that you have to do, and if you're not careful, the have-to-dos take up so much time that the get-to-dos don't get to do. Um-

   29. MMMatt Maruca55:33

       (laughs) Yeah.

   30. CWChris Williamson55:34

       Um, I live in Winterfell. If you've watched Game of Thrones, the place that Winterfell is based-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:08

   Oh, bro, I, I,…

   1. MMMatt Maruca1:00:00

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      Oh, bro, I, I, I think this mustache, those red glasses, I don't give a fuck, man. I was wearing purple socks as well. I, I don't care. Um, yeah. Okay.

   3. MMMatt Maruca1:00:08

      Go.

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:08

      So, s- sleep with the sun and wake with the sun-

   5. MMMatt Maruca1:00:11

      Yeah.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:00:11

      ... are steps, steps one and two of the light diet.

   7. MMMatt Maruca1:00:13

      That's actually j- that's correct, yeah, steps one and two. Now, um, one thing I would add is, just so you know, if ... And this is good for you right now. I actually would say don't... Next time you go for that evening walk, don't wear the glasses, and the reason why is because the whole idea is you don't... You want to get as much of that light as you can, and where you are, you have... The cool thing is everywhere on the planet gets the same amount of sunlight across 365 days of the year, which is very interesting concept. It's just the difference in distribution.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:00:41

      Mm-hmm.

   9. MMMatt Maruca1:00:41

      So, if you're on the Arctic Circle or the Antarctic Circle, you're getting 24 hours at one point-

   10. CWChris Williamson1:00:46

       (laughs)

   11. MMMatt Maruca1:00:46

       ... and then zero hours at the other.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:00:46

       So, what do those people do, or what do I do in summer? Because I can't be going to bed at 11:00, uh, at 10:30 and getting up-... at, like, 4:00. Like, I'm gonna ani-

   13. MMMatt Maruca1:00:58

       You know what's interesting-

   14. CWChris Williamson1:00:58

       ... I'm gonna annihilate myself.

   15. MMMatt Maruca1:01:00

       So it's interesting. Actually, if you look at the wild animals, they often do, uh, shorten their sleep in the summer and lengthen it in the winter, because when you have more light, your body has more basically free power to function with. So you actually, you could argue, one could argue you actually need less sleep in the summer and more in the winter. So you don't have to go all the way, but, you know ... Yeah, so if you want to go to sleep earlier, put the glasses on, you can definitely do that, but, um, you don't necessarily have to. And again, it's, it's hard to extrapolate what I just said to modern life, 'cause none of us are as healthy and optimal as William Wallace, you know, back in the day.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:01:37

       It's a, it's a piece of piss for my buddy Sam Bish who will be listening, and Dave Driscoll from Bali, because all year round, 6:00 AM, 6:00 PM. And then in summer-

   17. MMMatt Maruca1:01:48

       That's what I was gonna say.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:01:49

       ... it's like 6:15 AM until 6:15 PM.

   19. MMMatt Maruca1:01:52

       Exactly.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:01:52

       Like, it wobbles such a tiny amount.

   21. MMMatt Maruca1:01:54

       It's ... But that's amazing. There's ... I was in Bali, and, and it's seven degrees south of the equator, so you're ... It's exactly right, it's just 12 and 12 and 12 and 12.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:02:02

       All year round.

   23. MMMatt Maruca1:02:02

       So you don't get those longer nights, but you also don't go, get those really short days in the, in the winter. Uh, or I should say longer days or the shorter days. So, so that's a, that's a very use ... It's very easy to do everything like this when you're in that (laughs) kind of environment. That's why I like being-

   24. CWChris Williamson1:02:15

       Piece of piss, all the, all these Indonesians with unbelievable light diets, that they didn't-

   25. MMMatt Maruca1:02:20

       Yeah. (laughs)

   26. CWChris Williamson1:02:20

       ... they didn't even know about it. Okay, so we're going, we're going-

   27. MMMatt Maruca1:02:23

       Oh, the one, one issue, Indonesians actually ... Uh, there's largely Muslim countries, so they're actually, a lot of them are covered up too much. So that can be a problem. But anyway, let's keep going.

   28. CWChris Williamson1:02:30

       Sunbathe-

   29. MMMatt Maruca1:02:31

       So-

   30. CWChris Williamson1:02:31

       Everyone who's Indonesian that's listening, sunbathe in the, uh, in the comfort of your own home. Um, sleep-

Episode duration: 1:46:08