Modern WisdomHunting An Invisible Drug Lord - Jeremy McDermott | Modern Wisdom Podcast 339
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
105 min read · 20,976 words- 0:00 – 1:23
Being sued by an “invisible” drug lord: threats, risks, and stakes
- CWChris Williamson
At no point have you said worried about perhaps being killed?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah. And, and I had a, a long chat with a couple of underworld sources about whether he would be the sort of chap who would go down that route. And one source said, "Yeah, you'll probably have an accident. Someone'll try to rob you, except they're not really there to rob you, and you'll get killed in the attempt." But then all the others, including this source, said, "No, he's not that stupid." Chris, he's not gonna sue me and kill me.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JMJeremy McDermott
I really think that's a one or the other situation here, you know? So I should be slightly relieved that he's suing me, I guess. (wind blows)
- CWChris Williamson
Are you being sued by a drug lord?
- JMJeremy McDermott
I am, unfortunately, in criminal court. Um, and if convicted, face up to five years in prison, um, and a hefty fine. Um, and I won't be allowed to continue my work as a journalist so long as I am still under sentence.
- CWChris Williamson
That seems like an intense position to be in.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Uh, it's an unusual position to be in, in the sense that, um, we get sued a lot, but I've never been sued by a drug trafficker who's actually been named but not yet convicted, nor indeed been arrested. So, um, yeah, strange position to be in, um, but we're still, um, we're still plowing on.
- 1:23 – 4:28
Who “The Invisibles” are and why anonymity beats violence
- CWChris Williamson
What are The Invisibles?
- JMJeremy McDermott
The Invisibles, Chris, is a name we, um, we've been giving to drug traffickers here, uh, in Latin America, particularly in Colombia where, where I, where I live, um, that decided a while back that their best protection was not a private army, but was being anonymous, simply not being on anybody's radar. And, you know, if you, if you have a look at the, the Colombian drug world going back to Pablo Escobar, you know, he had his army of sicarios. And then after Pablo Escobar, we have the paramilitaries, and they end up demobilizing more than 30,000 heavily-armed fighters. Then, of course, we've got the Marxist guerrillas. So there is a tradition of extreme violence, verily, very heavily armed cartel structures, um, in Colombia and still today in Mexico. And the, um, this generation or this group of drug traffickers realized that, uh, they would left- leave Pablo Escobar to take all the heat. Um, and Memo Fantasma actually started his career in the Medellin cartel, so he goes all the way back. He's been e- he's been in the business for 30 years. Um, and so he's been quietly moving, we think, anything up to 100 tons of cocaine over the last, um, three decades, um, living in the shadows. Um, living under Pablo Escobar, and then after, the paramilitaries, um, always operat- operating, um, initially in and out of Medellin, um, and simply been able to do his business without appearing on, uh, on certainly the public's radar. Although he was on the US radar and Colombian police radar, but he was an informant for the DEA, and that seems to have protected him.
- CWChris Williamson
It doesn't surprise me that it's become a better strategy for drug lords to not be wearing a floral shirt and a gold-
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... embossed AK-47 and riding around in the back of open-back trucks and building their own jails and stuff like this. Every time that you speak to someone about the new top 100 richest people on the planet, everybody says, "Yeah, yeah, but those are the ones whose money we know about. There's got to be some seedy underworld crime bosses or some, uh, Arab prince that's hidden all of his money away. There has to be some of them that also has it." So I guess, you know, even to someone that's a, an uninitiate, the crime world ca- it makes sense, right? That someone would do that, that they wouldn't be quite so flash, that being unseen via stealth as opposed to untouchable via aggression is perhaps an even better strategy.
- 4:28 – 6:46
Memo Fantasma’s evolution: from street-level narco to suited global operator
- JMJeremy McDermott
I think also, Chris, the, the way to think about it is, um, a drug trafficker usually starts at the coal face. Um, and the coal face in the drug world is, is your crocodile boots, is your gold chain, is your pistol stuffed down your trousers. Um, and of course, it's, this is a very violent, unpredictable world. Um, and so as you advance, you probably want to get further and further away from the coal face. Um, and the other thing, and this is particularly the case with Memo Fantasma, is when you earn an enormous amount of money, that provides different challenges. Um, you have to be able to hide that money. You have to be able to spend that money. And so, um, when, when I speak to, uh, people that knew Memo Fantasma when he was young and starting in the coal face and those that saw the evolution of Memo Fantasma, they said that, you know, quite quickly, after, after about six or seven years, um, he is beginning to wear suits. Um, and he had a penchant for European clothing. Um, and, uh, he decided that he didn't want to be in the coca fields, he didn't want to be in the drug labs. Um, he wanted to be, uh, in the United States, in Spain, making the deals, um, and that, uh...... when people who had known him early met him later, th- they, it was hard to recognize him. Um, so, yes, you can see from a business point of view, it makes perfect sense. From a drug trafficking point of view, it makes perfect sense. And perhaps the key thing, I think, is from a survival point of view, it makes perfect sense. You wanna get away from the cold face of drug trafficking, the guns blazing, um, the, uh, uh, the extreme violence and narco culture, and you want to be sitting in a penthouse in Madrid, um, rather than a coca field in Colombia, don't you?
- CWChris Williamson
Who is this Memo Fantasma guy then? What's his story?
- 6:46 – 9:17
The origin mystery: Sebastian Colmenares and the name that wouldn’t demobilize
- JMJeremy McDermott
Okay. His real name is Guillermo Acevedo. Uh, and I came across him, or I came across an alias of his back in 2005, um, where the Colombian government is negotiating with this right-wing paramilitary army. They end up demobilizing 30,000 guys. This was probably the most powerful cartel ever on the planet. Um, and they controlled most of drug trafficking. Uh, the government was, was negotiating with them and they all had different aliases and they were signing different documents as they, as they moved towards a peace process. And I was looking through, uh, the signatories at one of the bottom of these documents and there was a name I didn't recognize, and I'd met most of these guys over the years. Um, and it was Sebastian Colmenares. And so I'm going, "Okay, who is, who is Sebastian Colmenares?" Um, and, uh, he never appeared when i- when it was time to demobilize. Uh, and the name stuck with me, and I was never able to make any progress, so I sort of put that on the back burner, um, and, um, rather rebuked myself for not, for not, um, making any serious investigative progress. And then I'd also heard of a drug trafficker kicking around Medellín, where I've been living for more than 20 years, called Memo Fantasma, which is Will the Ghost, if you like. Um, and again, you know, I'd heard a l- you know, his name kept popping up, but I'd never been able to, to, to, to find out who he was. Um, and it was a bit frustrating. And again, it just kind of went onto the back burner, as there, there are dozens and dozens of these names that you, you never really, really are able to get to grips with. Uh, and then in 2015, there's a newspaper article that suggests Sebastian Colmenares and Memo Fantasma are the same guy, and so I get very excited. Um, you know, there are two names that have been gathering dust on the shelves, and they both appear to be the same guy. And so I go, "Okay, enough. We, we need to get to the bottom of this, um, because this guy's been kicking around." Memo Fantasma I'd heard had been, had been since the days of Pablo Escobar and Sebastian Colmenares had been sitting at the top table with these paramilitary drug lords. Um, and so began the investigation. Um, and the, perhaps the most alarming thing, Chris, in this world, w- when you investigate organized crime, you rely very heavily on
- 9:17 – 11:21
Breaking invisibility: the reality TV screenshot that produced a face
- JMJeremy McDermott
security force sources, you know, law enforcement, um, and, you know, have got a great relationship with the DEA. Um, same with the British NCA, you know, the Italians, and of course, the Colombians, um, 'cause they've been here for so long. Nobody would help me with this guy. Um, and so the alarm bells went off. Um, and, uh, in the end, it was a source, uh, an underworld source, uh, that, uh, was able to give me, uh, several things. One was, yes, it's the same person. Yes, he exists, and if you go to this reality TV show, going back a while, you're gonna get, you're gonna see him. Um, uh, and as soon as I have an image, then I can go round all my sources and go, "Okay, is this the guy you know as Memo Fantasma." And that's what happened. On the reality show, um, it's one of those where they, they put up embarrassing situations and they see how people react. And this situation is in a, is in a café in Bogotá, where a, a man begins to mistreat, uh, the woman he's with. And so the camera's panning to, you know, how people are going to react to this, this, this show of, of, of, you know, domestic violence or whatever. A- and it pans to a chap who's sitting there with two others drinking a cup of coffee, who looks across, seems totally uninterested, and goes back to his conversation. Um, and this was Guillermo Acevedo, Memo Fantasma. And what happened during this very popular show was a group of paramilitaries in prison went, "Hey, that's Memo Fantasma." Uh, and this message came to me. Um, and so I had a photo, and so, um, the investigation really took, took, uh, took a life of its own.
- 11:21 – 14:23
Why no one would help: fear, corruption, and “surgical violence”
- CWChris Williamson
Before you had that photo, what happened when you went to your sources? What were they saying to you?
- JMJeremy McDermott
They said to me, "Yeah, we've all heard of Memo Fantasma. Yes, of course, there was this guy called Sebastian Colmenares. Yes, Memo Fantasma was a senior drug trafficker in the Medellín cartel. Yes, Sebastian Colmenares was a big heavy hitter in the paramilitary ru- world." But then I go, "Well, then how do I find him?" And they go, "Well, I don't know. Um, I can tell you he was a small, rather uninteresting looking guy. Um, we didn't know what his real name was. Um, but, you know, I can tell you everything about his criminal career that we saw." But of course, it didn't help me find the guy and get a real name.
- CWChris Williamson
So, part of the issue was that he had hidden his own history and was so-... um, unbecoming-
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... that people couldn't really remember him or, or give you much information. But I imagine as well that there were other people who might have known a little bit more and knew just how dangerous this guy was. So it was a combination of ignorance and fear.
- JMJeremy McDermott
On top of that, he was very clever, um, in the sense that he never allowed any photos to be taken of himself. Um, you know, drug traffickers-
- CWChris Williamson
Apart from being in the background of a-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... reality TV show broadcast on national television.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, yeah, which, which, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Which, of course, he didn't know he was gonna be on. You know, it was one of the hidden camera ones, um-
- CWChris Williamson
He should've sued them. Forget suing you.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He did.
- CWChris Williamson
Memo, if you're listening, s- if you didn't sign a release form, my friend, get them sued. (laughs)
- JMJeremy McDermott
He did. He did try to sue them. And you now can't find it, Chris.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JMJeremy McDermott
Okay? So, um, he, he took your advice. Um, but no, Memo, what he did was he was never in any of the photos. And you know, the paramilitaries like to dress up in uniform and they all posed with their guns. Um, and he was never there. He was never there. The other thing is, um, uh... And during my interviews with the people who have come across him, um, he's apparently a pretty scary dude, uh, in the sense that he is prepared to use surgical violence to eliminate rivals and anybody who, um, threatens his business. So, uh, he's quiet, but extremely ruthless. Um, and even today, um, now that he's been exposed and, you know, he's been named by the Colombian Attorney General's Office, the fact that he is still free, uh, reinforces the terror that he has held, um. And everyone believes, including myself, that he has very senior people on the payroll in the police force, uh, and in the attorney general's office, and perhaps in the political world. Um, as one of the, um, uh, one of the big detonators for this story, uh, was that I named the Colombian Vice President as a, um, partner in one of his money laundering businesses, and she also sued me using exactly the same legal tool that Memo Fantasma is using today. But under international pressure, she dropped the case.
- 14:23 – 16:38
How Memo rose: routes, alliances, submarines, and global distribution profits
- CWChris Williamson
(inhales deeply) How did Memo get so high up in the cartel? Did you find that out?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yes. Um, he, uh, developed, um, links with Mexican cartels, um. He, uh... As part of his paramilitary expansion, uh, he took a very important part of Colombia, um, through blood and massacre, um, uh, which had, uh, along the Pacific Coast, which is a perfect departure point for drug shipments. Um, he was one of the innovators in using drug submarines, um, and he also diversified, um, the market. So while everybody in Colombia was moving stuff to Mexico, he was still moving stuff to Mexico and he was in bed with the Beltrán-Leyva, um, Cartel. But, uh, for example, in the, uh, Olympics held in Sydney, um, he moved a huge consignment of drugs to, to a time with the opening of the Olympics. Um, he had, uh... He made alliances with some, uh, with a top Spanish drug trafficker. And so he's moving, um, drugs all around the world, uh, and he, he controls the most important thing in the drug trafficking world, which are the routes. Because the money, Chris, is not made in the production of drugs. So the guy who, who, you know, who harvests the coca and, and then runs the cocaine laboratory, sure, great business. Um, and even the one that's in, in New York or in London selling the drugs, again, great business. So the percentage for the drug production guys is 150%, which in any business world, great. If you're in the retail end of the business, you're probably making 300% profit. Again, brilliant. But if you're the guy that takes the kilo of cocaine from Colombia and drops it into Sydney, you are making 3,000% profit. And so this is where the real money is. This is where the huge profits are. So anyone who controls the routes, everybody wants to do business with him, and that was Memo Fantasma.
- 16:38 – 18:35
The Escobar “windfall” myth and verified early business foundations
- CWChris Williamson
Wasn't there a situation where he... someone died high up in a cartel and he was just left with loads of drugs? Wasn't this kind of his-
- JMJeremy McDermott
This, um-
- CWChris Williamson
... come to power moment?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, this is, this is, um, um, this is part of the, the urban myth. Um, uh, I think it's true and I've got some sources said it was true, but other sources say no. So I'm not gonna put my hand in the fire for this one. But the story is that, um, uh, he is in the United States having just received a shipment of cocaine from the Medellín Cartel when Pablo Escobar is killed, um, on a Medellín rooftop. Um, so, uh, the Medellín Cartel goes into meltdown. Nobody knows what the hell is going on and he is sitting on a very large shipment of cocaine. He sells it, and of course he doesn't know who to push the money back up to because there's chaos. The Medellín Cartel is in chaos, so he just keeps the money. He pump-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, when you're fighting for leadership, you're not calling in your debtors quite so much, right?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Exactly. And also, I think that, um, uh, so much of this stuff is in people's heads that when people get killed, all record of their business dealings gets lost as well. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, quickbooks.com doesn't have a backup of-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Exactly. Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
And, you know, um, uh, uh-So he returns to Colombia with a pile of cash. And this we do know, we have it confirmed, he sets up his first small company and he sets up his own drug laboratory, um, about four miles north of Medellín and he starts processing his cocaine and using his Mexican and US contacts to go into business for himself.
- 18:35 – 21:27
Living in Colombia while investigating: family risks, threats, and resolve
- CWChris Williamson
Why are you living where you're living given what you're doing-
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... for work? Right? You're just talking about four miles away from this place and then you're happily living in that region for two decades.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Um, well, first of all, it's absolutely beautiful part of the world, Colombia. Um, breathtakingly beautiful. Um, the people are, uh, you know, those that aren't trying to sue you, um, are absolutely lovely. Um, and, uh, I think for us particularly, those of us from a, from a European background, where, uh, you know, people moan about mortgage rates and the weather, uh, living in a place where they have real problems and still seem to have way more fun than us, um, uh, it's, uh, it's been for me a very rewarding life. Uh, does it have, of course, its downsides and, uh, living in, in a, in a less developed world, in a world where there is enormous amounts of violence? Of course. Uh-
- CWChris Williamson
But sh- do you not have personal security concerns? I mean, are you constantly walking around with an armed guard or something?
- JMJeremy McDermott
No, absolutely not. I mean, yes, I have the personal security concerns, um, but I'm not walking around with a armed guard. Um, we have moved our kids out of, out of Colombia with the, the, the most, um, recent, uh, raft of threats. Um-
- CWChris Williamson
What were they?
- JMJeremy McDermott
You have to... This was linked with Memo and my wife is a journalist as well, and she had received separate threats for-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, fantastic. Okay. So you're-
- JMJeremy McDermott
... for, for, for, for different... So it's both sides.
- CWChris Williamson
... you're, you're, you're getting pincer, uh, pincer movement. Yeah. Exactly. Fantastic.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Um, but you, um, I guess you have to make a decision. Either you pack up and go and do something else or you, you stick with it. And we've, we've decided to, to stick with it. Um, and also, I think, Chris, without, without, you know, beating one's chest or anything, this guy can't get away with it. He cannot sue a journalist who has proven, uh, not only his existence, but his criminal record and get away with it. I mean, you just... You can't. You can't, you can't back down in that. Um, and one has to point out to the Colombian judicial system the irony of them not issuing an arrest warrant for Memo Fantasma, someone who's already been identified by the Attorney General, and they've seized two of his properties as well. So it's not like there isn't a case there. Um, and then the same justice system which is seeing him walking free being used against a journalist to attempt to silence him. So, um, yeah, can't... That, that, that will not stand, Chris. That will not stand.
- 21:27 – 31:28
Erasing a past: bribed prosecutors, corrupted police, and sealed US indictments
- CWChris Williamson
All right. So how did he get rid of his history? Because everyone is born somewhere, everyone has a history-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... when they come into this world.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Okay. Um, he got rid of his, uh, initial judicial history by bribing two, um, fiscales, who are prosecutors in the prosecution service of the Attorney General's office. We have their names. I haven't published them yet 'cause I'm not ready for another couple of lawsuits and these two are now-
- CWChris Williamson
One at a time, Jeremy.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah, exactly. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
One at a time, okay?
- JMJeremy McDermott
You know, baby steps, baby steps with this. Um, they are now both very successful defense lawyers. Um, so if we take them on, um, I'm gonna have to be ready. And my lawyer, um, has gone, "God, do we really have to do that right now?" So we're not doing that right now. Um, and so these two were in the, uh, anti-narcotics section of the Attorney General's office and so they were able to bury his cases. Then he had two judicial policemen, um, uh, also on the payroll who were also able to bury or, um, uh, mislead various different investigations around him. Um, and then, uh, he started being an informant for the DEA, which sealed the two indictments he has in the United States that I've not been able to get at. Um, I have the name of his DEA agent, I have the name of the prosecutor that put the two cases against him. Um, neither have, uh, engaged with me despite me ambushing them on various different, um, social media and emails. Um, and I understand why. You know, it's sealed indictments and et cetera, et cetera. It's a bit frustrating. Um, and then what he did was somehow, um... As part of this, this paramilitary peace process I mentioned before, um, uh, Chris, they got a sweetheart deal whereby all these paramilitary drug lords, if they, if they cooperated with the, with the justice system, got minimal sentences, eight years, no matter what they'd done. Um, and during this process, Memo's name came up several times, and his real name was mentioned. Um, and I didn't know this.Um, but what I did do is when I put a- a- an official freedom of information request to, to this, this is called Peace and Justice. Um, and I got the, the information they had. And then when we went through and we listened to hundreds of hours of interviews, we went, "This, his name's mentioned here. This guy says his name, but it's not registered anywhere." Which leads us to suspect that he had someone in Peace and Justice who also manipulated and buried testimony. So this guy has been everywhere.
- CWChris Williamson
Clinical.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He's been everywhere. Yeah, absolutely brilliant. He's been everywhere. Uh, and he's managed to, to, to wipe the footsteps, which they were there. It's just no one was looking. And even if you started looking, they were so well buried that you had to listen to hundreds and hundreds of hours and go through hundreds and hundreds of documents to find the nugget that you needed.
- CWChris Williamson
So he's not just got political contacts in Colombia, he's also working with the DEA, which is America-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and Peace and Justice?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, the Peace and Justice is part of the Colombian justice system.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He's no longer working with the DEA, but he was.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He was. Um, and his DEA agent actually retired, um, two weeks ago. Um, so, uh, but what I do know is that when I went to confront Memo in Madrid, um, he immediately contacted the DEA to go, "What do I do? Um, this guy has just appeared on my doorstep."
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So how did he stay out of jail during his period of running drugs?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Um, well, one, by ensuring that no in- investigation, uh, uh, was opened against him, um, or by, uh, um, diverting, um, or manipulating those. So, um, it was only in the US that they got to the point of an indictment. They never in Colombia got to a point of an indictment. Um, and then the US authorities buried the indictment because they wanted him out there.
- CWChris Williamson
And they flipped him-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and turned him into a source.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Uh, I don't think they flipped him. I think he offered. Um, I think he's that smart that he saw that the way to, um, uh, to remain invisible and to stay out of prison was to offer his services to the one agency that is quite hard to bribe. Uh, um, and that you can't mess with their paperwork. Uh, it's not like you can go into the US, uh, Attorney General's office and start burying, manipulating and, and amending files. So I think he made a conscious decision. Um, the other thing that's quite extraordinary about him is, um, most of the guys who have flipped, um, still have to spend some time in prison. It may be a laughable sentence, um, particularly when one looks at the crimes they've committed, but they, they do spend anything from, you know, three to 10 years in, in, in an American prison. Memo has not spent a minute in prison, and that is either a testament to the information he delivered or a testament to the fact that he knows how to play the system, and I think it's a bit of both.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. So he must have been contacted at some point by the DEA. You- I mean, I, I- no matter how much foresight this guy has, I can't imagine that he's just rung up and said, "Hi, is this the DEA? Uh, yeah, by the way, you're probably looking for me." So they've per- perhaps contacted him and he's precluded-
- JMJeremy McDermott
No, I think he, uh, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
He's reached out to them?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah, he's reached out to them and it's actually very easy to do because there are, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Becomeaninformant.com or something. (laughs)
- JMJeremy McDermott
No, there are dozens of American lawyers who specialize in this, which is defending Colombian drug traffickers. So what you do is one of your mates has been extradited or got an arrest warrant, uh, and you go, "Oh, which American lawyer are you gonna use?" And you go, "I'm gonna use, oh, this one." And then he goes, "All right, well, can you use that one who's already negotiating with the DEA to try and get a plea deal? Can you say, 'Oi, do you fancy a chat with me?'"
- 31:28 – 38:36
Following the money to a real identity: FOI requests, registries, and family networks
- CWChris Williamson
Fantastic. Um, okay, so going back, how did you get onto his trail more seriously? You've got his photo from the background of Ashton Kutcher doing a Punk'd episode or whatever it is-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yep. Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then Colombian Ashton Kutcher, and then you go, "Right, okay, I have his image, I can show it to people, people can say, 'Yes, that is him'."
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, that, that doesn't mean much more either, does it?
- JMJeremy McDermott
No, but we, we found his real name in these files from Peace and Justice. You know, one of his partners in the paramilitary army says his name, and the name that I was given that they had for him was a f- was a false alias, was an alias that he used in the paramilitary. So actually, that was a dead end to begin with. But then when we went through all of the, all of the, the transcripts and we heard it, then we find another name. Um, uh, and, uh, i- with that name, we are able to start following a money trail. So there's stuff, there were businesses that were associated with Memo Fantasma in, particularly in the airport in Medellín. He had a hangar there. Um, and we'd been told by so many different sources, "Oh, Memo was the owner of that," but I'm going, "I haven't got a name and, you know, I can't go through every single hangar and find out if that's Memo Fantasma." But then we got this name from the paramilitary peace process, and once you've got a name and you've got the, the companies, um, we got his ID card from the Chamber of Commerce, 'cause you know when you register a company, you have to put your ID in there. So they... he had to scan his ID card, and that was it. We had him dead to rights after that because then we find he's got a legal company. Um, we follow the legal company because, of course, the more and more successful you become as a drug trafficker, the less and less you put under your name, for obvious reasons. Um, and so what we did is we find his legal company, we find the names of his relatives, his wife who's up to her neck in it as well, um, and then we start following those names. And so suddenly, the business begins to move further and further and further, and this is where we found, um, his mum had bought a series of properties in the most expensive part of Bogotá. So, these were old houses, uh, in a neighborhood in the north of Bogotá. He uses, um, (coughs) his mum and another couple of companies to buy almost an entire city block. He then goes to the husband of the now vice president of Colombia, who is a, um, construction magnate, goes, um, "Hey, you should... You know, I'm now sitting on some of the most prime real estate in Bogotá. Do you fancy putting up a, um, a development here?" And of course, he goes, "God, yeah," um, and they build what is called as Tower 85 'cause it's on the 85 block of, of Bogotá. It's an emblematic development. Huge. Um, and, uh, and so Memo Fantasma gets into bed with Álvaro Rincón, who is the vice president's husband, um, and the other... well, the major shareholder of that company, Hitos Urbanos, was the current vice president. And of course, the question is did she or did she not know who she was getting into bed with? Um, and anyway, I spoke to her, I interviewed her as part of the process, I interviewed her husband as part of the process. He said, "Yeah, we did the business deal with him," which they couldn't deny 'cause I had all the papers, um, but they said, "We had no idea he was a drug trafficker. He had no arrest warrant," which he didn't, um, and, uh, so, you know, oh, you know, "Why are you accusing us of irregular activity?" Um, to which of course I replied, "So this guy comes in off the street, um, he's not from, um, uh, Bogotá, he's from Medellín, um, and, uh, this is the late 1990s in Colombia, um, you don't think to do any due diligence on him." And so they say, "Yes, we did, and we rang the chief of police, um, to check if this guy had any record." So I spoke to the chief of police and he said, "I don't remember that, but it could have happened." So he was... he really hedged himself. He said, "People are always ringing me to check," and, "Yeah, of course, I'm sure she could have done..." 'Cause she was then the defense minister, um, so, you know, probably. Um, but, uh, yeah, it didn't, it doesn't smell right to me and, um, uh, uh, something happened. But Memo not only...... does this amazing development, but he gets his children into the Eton of Bogotá, or the Eton of Colombia. Th- his children go to the top school in the country, where there's a list, where there's a line going round the block to get into the school. Somehow an outsider, um, gets into this school. Uh, apparently someone wrote a letter on his behalf, and that person might have been the Colombian vice president. 'Cause if you're gonna get into the Eton of Colombia, you probably need a reference from someone like that.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Um, so he suddenly is driving around Bogotá like a businessman, in his European suits-
- CWChris Williamson
Legit.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... um, legit, with his daughter, um, his daughters, uh, in this exclusive school. One of his daughters is now international, um, showjumper, um-
- CWChris Williamson
Of course she is.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... you know, represents... Yeah, exactly. Um, uh, living in, you know, the richest part of the city, and he's clean. But Chris, he disappears to Madrid in 2015, which is when I find th- when that article is published, which I said-
- CWChris Williamson
Which article is the first one?
- JMJeremy McDermott
... where Memo Fantasma... Which, which, which says that Memo Fantasma and Sebastián Colmenares are the same person, and I don't find that a coincidence. Um, you know, this article is published by a Spanish... by a Colombian newspaper, saying, "Look at this guy. Um, you know, he's, he's these two people," but they don't have a name. Well, they do have a name, and it's the wrong name, 'cause it's the name that he planted. But he knows that someone's now looking for him, and so he disappears off and sets up, um, a multimillion-euro business in Madrid, moves his family there, puts them into a really good school in Madrid, um, has a lovely flat in the center of Madrid, and a lovely house on the outskirts of Madrid. And he's living the life until I arrive and knock on the door. He's now sold, um, all his Spanish properties, um, and he's back in Bogotá.
- 38:36 – 43:33
Madrid stakeout and confrontation: forcing contact through his lawyers
- CWChris Williamson
Wow. So talk me through flying out to Madrid and how you find where he is, and then you end up giving him a, a casual chat.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, I didn't... He wouldn't see me. What, what I did was, um, I stake out, uh... I've got two addresses 'cause we follow the money, and we see that this company... He sets up two companies in Madrid, um, under his name. So, you know, I'm able to follow the companies, and we're able to see what resources he bought through those companies. So he's bought this flat. He's bought this house. He's got a, um, a Land Rover. He's got a BMW motorbike. So we've got all this stuff, um, but again, he's so clever. Um, the apartment, uh, has a, um, a porter downstairs, so you can't doorstep. And the apartment has got two exits. One is the car exit and one is the, the foot exit, and you can't cover them both at once, at least not if you're a poor journalist with just you. Um, and then the house is in one of those closed neighborhoods, you know. Uh, apparently, there's lots of, um, Real Madrid and all these other... You know, it's f- it's a very popular, closed neighborhood for those who don't want to be photographed. Um, and so I can't ambush him there, um, and so, uh, uh, I create a ruckus by going. Well, I go to the apartment and to the house, and, um, uh, and he's, he's in the house, I think, when I call, because the, the, the guard says, "There's a guy here wants to speak to Señor Guillermo," and I can hear a male voice through the, the, the, the intercom. Um, and then the, the, the guard goes, "Oh, no, he's not at home."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JMJeremy McDermott
Um, but then I go to the- his lawyer's office 'cause it gives them... The company has the lawyer, um, and so I go to the lawyer's office, um, and I say, "Look, I'd like to leave a message for Guillermo Acevedo," and they go, "Sure." Um, uh, and then I say, "You know, would it be possible for, for you to give him a call? 'Cause it's really quite urgent, and just, just let him know that I'm here, um, and see if he wants to speak to me." And so they call, and then they come back into the room and, "Everything has completely changed. You need to leave now. Um, we don't work for Guillermo Acevedo. We're not taking any, any, uh, message for him." And so I then start screaming, um, "You know, this company works for terrorists and drug traffickers. Is that what you do? Uh, you know, I'm gonna have to write an article on you guys. Are you facilitators for the underworld?" Um, and I get thrown out. Um, but the point is, of course, that he now knows that I'm here. I've now created a scene at his lawyer's, and the lawyers obviously didn't know, um, and so he rings me, and he goes, you know, "What the hell is going on? How dare you create all this thing? Did you threaten the lawyers? How dare you threaten lawyers?" And I said, "Well, actually, I was here to threaten you, not the lawyers." Um, and so we have this conversation for 22 minutes where, um, he, uh, seeks to persuade me that he's not Sebastián Colmenares or Memo Fantasma, um, and that I'm some poor gringo, um, foreign, uh, uh, journalist who's been led astray by various underworld sources. Um, but through the conversation, I am mentioning the names and aliases of underworld figures that no one should know, and he clearly knows.... 'cause he never questions me once as to who the hell is Don Berna or who the hell is... Um, and so at the end of it, he's obviously flatly denied that he is Memo Fantasma. Um, but, uh, he has convinced me beyond belief, uh, any kind of doubt that he is, he is, um, Memo Fantasma. Uh, but he still thinks he can persuade me, so, um, he says, "I'll contact you by email and I will answer any questions you have," but he never did. He did contact me by email but he never answered any questions. And then what I kept doing to try and provoke responses, I would send him a, an email going, "Is it true that you were involved in the killing of, of Julio Fierro?" And he would write back, "That's outrageous. I'm not a... You know, I'm never involved in killing anyone," which was enough for me to keep, you know, getting, uh, something which we used in the, in the articles. Um, and, um, and then there we are. He's won. He's still out there and, um, and, uh, he is still, um, enjoying his fortune.
- 43:33 – 53:19
Weaponized criminal libel: the vice president case and Memo’s ongoing lawsuit
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So how did you come to be sued by the vice president of Colombia?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Okay. Well, after the publication of the articles-
- CWChris Williamson
When was that? Last year?
- JMJeremy McDermott
That was March last year.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Was it March last year? Yeah. Um, uh, there's a... You know, it's on the front page of all the newspapers in Colombia, um, and, uh, she's called by every radio and TV program to, to, uh, to explain. Um, and so she sends me, uh, via a lawyer, a cease and desist, um, and then you must rectify, um, which I refused to do. I said, "I'm not gonna change a comma in this." Everything is stood up. There is all the documentation, which is included in the articles, if you see. Um, and so I refuse. Um, and so, uh, Colombia is one of the few nations on earth which has criminal libel, 'cause most, most cases are just civil libel whereby if I call Chris Williamson an idiot and say, you know, he's a drug trafficker, you can prove you're not a drug trafficker, and then I have to pay you, um, a, a fine because I have libeled you. Well, in Colombia, they have criminal libel. They also have the civil libel. There's criminal libel, which is this person has, with criminal intent, set out to blacken my name, um, and therefore it's criminal charge and it comes with a criminal sentence, which is up to 72 months in prison, which is five years. Now, the reason that everybody, all the bad guys use the criminal libel is not only because it comes with a prison sentence, but they don't have to prove that it's a lie. So if th- they say if Memo or the vice president had sued me in civil court to say, "You're, you're lying to me," I would go, "Prove it. Here's the stuff I've said. Prove it's not true," which they can't do because I've got all the documentary evidence. But in a criminal case, they don't.
- CWChris Williamson
What do they have to prove?
- JMJeremy McDermott
They don't have to prove anything. They just have to-
- CWChris Williamson
What's... So what's the point of having the criminal libel?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Because what it does is it passes it to the attorney general's office, and the attorney general's office has to investigate it because it's a criminal report. Now, the attorney general now has to decide whether there is a criminal case to answer, and then it goes to trial or it doesn't go to trial. The thing that we are worried about, or I am worried about, is it is going to go to trial because he has some people in the attorney general's office. However, I do not believe that Colombia wants to imprison a British journalist, um, uh, who has investigated... who is being sued by a Colombian drug trafficker who's already been identified by the attorney general because that is a public relations nightmare for Colombia. But that doesn't mean that the judicial process cannot go s- go forward. Um, my aim is obviously to make it as high profile as possible so that they can't do any manipulation of evidence and case, or if they do, I can go screaming, you know, "How can I... What, what crime have I committed?" Um, so that's, that's where we are. Am I worried about spending five years in prison? I'm not. Am I worried about it going to court? I am. Um, and, uh, is he trying to, um... Is he hoping that it's gonna cost me so much money that I will, you know, back away? Um, he maybe is, but now, um, uh, I have pro bono lawyers now who have taken on the case, um, 'cause they think it's as outrageous as I do. So he's not gonna be able to outspend me either. So, and-
- CWChris Williamson
It's difficult to outspend someone that's getting stuff for free.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Exactly. Um, although I think there will come a point where my pro bono lawyers might go, "You know what? We just thought this was, um, for a bit of a laugh. (laughs) We didn't realize, you know, three years later that we're still having to defend you." But we'll, we'll, we'll see. And of course, um, we're going to continue publishing, and so w- I think the next round of articles, which are pretty damning, uh, and has got, have got so much detail from these, these inside sources, um, are going to do one of two things. Um, the first is the Colombian attorney general's office is gonna be so embarrassed, um, that they're actually gonna issue an arrest warrant, which is what I'm hoping is going to happen, um, or he's gonna go on the run again.... um, 'cause at the moment, he's living, um, as we say in Spanish, (Spanish) , "Like Peter in his house." Um-
- CWChris Williamson
I thought you said he came back to Bogotá.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah, he's in Bogotá. He's in his house in Bogotá.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, okay.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay, okay.
- JMJeremy McDermott
That's where he left to Spain. He was living in Bogotá, as I told you-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... you know, in the top school and in the top neighborhood.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. And then he's gone to Spain. So why come back to Bogotá?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Because we were speaking to the Guardia Civil in Spain when we were looking on information for him, and the-
- CWChris Williamson
And he doesn't have as many people in there. He doesn't think he's quite as protected in Spain.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He doesn't have anybody. He doesn't ha-... And the Guardia Civil wanted his money, um, 'cause they wanted to freeze his accounts, um, because there was, you know, at least 11 million euros in there and they thought, "We'll have a bit of that." Um, but again, the Columbia... They needed documentation from the Colombian Attorney General's office, which they didn't get. Why didn't they get it? They made an official request. But Memo knows somehow about it all. He's flogged everything it seems, and he's left.
- CWChris Williamson
And pulled all of his money out. All of his euros are gone.
- JMJeremy McDermott
And pulled all of his money, yeah. And now the Guardia Civil, uh, you know... I spoke to my contact a few months back and he said, "Yeah, the flat's sold, the house is on the market, and he's gone."
- CWChris Williamson
No money for you-
- JMJeremy McDermott
And then I-
- CWChris Williamson
... Spanish people.
- JMJeremy McDermott
And then, yeah, and then I found he was in, he was in, uh, Bogotá, and then he came to Medellín. His mom lives, um, about, uh, 800 meters from my house in Medellín. Um-
- 53:19 – 57:18
How real-estate laundering works: land-for-units swaps, debt payment via titles, and “legit” rents
- CWChris Williamson
How is it that drug lords launder their money through real estate? Because presumably you can't just pay everyone in cash, or can you? Is it because there's so many laborers and contractors that you can just repurpose your ill-gotten gains that way?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, there are several, there are several, um, loopholes. One is, um, uh... Well, perhaps the- the... rather than- than get, um, all, um, uh, technical about this, um, there are two things that are really useful for a drug trafficker and real estate. One is what, which is what Memo did, he, um, he buys land, okay? And then he makes a deal with the construction company to say, "I'm going to give you this land and then you're going to give me 15 offices, 50 parking spaces, and three of the shops." And so the constructor goes, "Okay." So he doesn't appear in the construction. So, you know, when they're building it, Memo Fantasma's name was nowhere because there was just a- a deal signed, and we've managed to get it from the- the notary between him and the company to say, "We're going to give you this bit of land, and you're going to give us the stuff afterwards."... so, but how that appears from outside is suddenly, he is the legal owner of 15 offices, 40 parking spaces, and five shops, and it's legal. You know, he hasn't put 50 million in drug money into a bank and into a construction company. He has simply got the titles now of these, so nothing's gone through the bank. 'Cause you know if you put $10,000 in a bank, you know, there's supposed to be a red flag. Um, well, of course, in this system, there are no red flags. And suddenly-
- CWChris Williamson
But he's had to buy the land.
- JMJeremy McDermott
He had to buy the land, which he did in his mum's name and the company's name. And it was, you know, he did it over several months-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... and it didn't raise any, any red flags. Um, uh, but he didn't sell that money and then give it to the construction company and then... No, no, there's this back, backdoor deal done. And then the other thing which he'd, which Memo did is he's the proud owner now of 15 offices. He then pays his drug debts by giving the titles of t- to, of these offices to various of his people. So they are now... His drug debts are all paid. No money has changed hands, and the, the people, um, have now got a ni- shiny title. And of course, what isn't happening is no one's looking at the buying and selling of every property to see if it's dodgy or not. They're just looking at banks. "Is, is there money moving around that can't be justified?" But if I, Jeremy McDermott, give Chris Williams an office, Williamson an office, the, you know, the attorney general and the police aren't really gonna look at that, are they? They're just going to see that an office has changed hands.
- CWChris Williamson
Even though long term, that office might generate half a million pounds a year or something like that.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Absolutely, in terms of rent, it is, you know... And, and the rent has to be declared, but that's the beauty of it 'cause now he's declaring money that he can then go on to spend.
- CWChris Williamson
Legitimate.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Legitimate money-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... that he can now go on to spend. And Memo owns many different buildings, uh, and properties in Bogotá now, and, um, we reckon he makes up to $2 million, um, a year just from the rents on these properties, which is all legit money.
- CWChris Williamson
Just passive income, yeah, legit.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Legit, legit, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Spend it on a car, buy a house with it, go and holiday with it.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Absolutely. Well, you know, you can live on two million, surely, Chris, right?
- CWChris Williamson
Well, it depends on how many show jumping ponies the, the daughter needs, I suppose.
- JMJeremy McDermott
That, that, that is true, but, um, I still think, you know, there's a, there's some wiggle room there for a good legit life.
- 57:18 – 1:04:23
What comes next: new articles, statutes of limitations, and ‘get him through the money’
- CWChris Williamson
Got you. Um, what's happening next? You've got this new set of articles. So there's the- this first set of articles-
- JMJeremy McDermott
They're gonna publish, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... is on InSite Crime. It'll be linked in the show notes below. If you've enjoyed this story, it goes into so much more depth. You've got all the photos and the scans of the documents. It's an unbelievable read. And now you've got this 80 hours of underworld interviews and all of the next stuff, and that's what's coming out next, another series of articles?
- JMJeremy McDermott
That, that's coming out S- yeah, it'll be another between four and six, um, articles. The reason it's taken so long is the verification, and then the other is the money. We've really tried to follow the money. Um, and the reason for this, Chris, is that, um, the drug trafficking is now so far in the past that he could get away with it, you know? There's, there's-
- CWChris Williamson
Is there a statute of limitations for stuff like that?
- JMJeremy McDermott
Yes, there is. If there's not murder involved, there does seem to be a statute of limitations, which is why the DEA turned around to him and said, "If you behave yourself for the next 10 years, these indictments will disappear." Um, so, uh, on the drug trafficking, um, it looks like there's statute of limitations. Um, the murders are very hard for us to prove, but the money he can't hide. Um, and he has to justify where this $30 million from a guy who's born into nothing in Medellín has come from. And so we think that this is the best way to get him into prison, will be where did all this money come from? Because the money laundering, every time that office that he bought with the drug money earns money, it's money laundering. So there's no statute of limitations 'cause he's still earning the money on it. And so we think that's the way... You know, it's Al Capone and the taxes. We think that's the way we'll get him, is through the money.
- CWChris Williamson
It's so crazy. It's so mad to think about how many other people are probably in this situation as well, you know? This is one guy that you've managed to track down. I imagine that there must be many others who've managed to get to his sort of status. And it's also such a s- you know, for all that his tactics might be nefarious, it's a very admirable, uh, shrewd business acumen understanding of the world and the way that it works, that you can front load your wealth acquisition by trying to get into the position of, um, distribution as fast as possible, that you can make some deals to protect yourself when it happens, that you can have the political allies to ensure that you stay free.
- JMJeremy McDermott
So, when he launders the money-
- CWChris Williamson
Like the husband of the, of the-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
... vice president, yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
I don't think that is coincidence. I think he's thinking-
- CWChris Williamson
Strategic.
- JMJeremy McDermott
... "How do I tie in-"
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JMJeremy McDermott
"... powerful people? I will give them a deal they can't turn down." So, he goes to the husband and he says, "Listen, I'm going to give you this prime real estate at a really good deal." He jumps at it. Of course he jumps at it. But that's it. Now he's tied in, and his wife's tied in, and we think he's done this-
- CWChris Williamson
Too big to fail.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well, and also, they don't want this to come out. They don't want this to come out, so they are now invested in maintaining his legitimacy and his legal facade. Uh, it's brilliant. Don't you think it's brilliant?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. It's a shame that he applied his talents to criminality, 'cause, you know, we'd probably be living in a utopia and surfing on Mars if he'd actually managed to apply-
- JMJeremy McDermott
Well-
- CWChris Williamson
... this talent to something a bit more altruistic.
- JMJeremy McDermott
Unfortunately, and, you know, I'll put this to you, Chris, you have a choice. You can enter the legal world in Colombia, where the minimum wage is $2,000 a year, and you can go to school and work your way up, um, and, you know, uh, maybe you will earn, uh, $500,000 over the course of your life, okay, which is what the average Colombian gets, nowhere near. Or, you can move 10 kilos of cocaine, just once, and you will earn the same amount as you're going to earn in your entire legal existence. Would you take that risk, Chris?
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I'm a law-abiding citizen.
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs) Well, you- you can see the temptation (laughs) .
- CWChris Williamson
And as you know, Jeremy, we're both very orderly-
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
We're both very orderly British fellas.
- JMJeremy McDermott
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
We stick to the rules. Um, yeah, I mean...
- JMJeremy McDermott
You can see the temptation.
Episode duration: 1:04:23
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