Identity Change & Personal Growth - Ollie Marchon | Modern Wisdom Podcast 371

1. 0:00 – 0:47

   Intro

   1. OMOllie Marchon0:00

      It's the same in any sort of area of life, right? Whether it's your training or any kind of area in what you're trying to do. It's those sets of reps and it's the boring stuff that compounds over time that's gonna give you the desired outcome, and most people just can't create order around those few things. They can create order around one or two areas of their life, but as soon as you've got to create order around the kitchen, around training, around work, around family, around social occasions, something falls apart. It's the people that have the ability to do those four or five things that then people think, "Oh, they've got all their (censored) together." They've just spent a bit of time trying to create that order, find what works, iterate on the process. When it does work, just allow compounding interest, take care of things. When it doesn't work, try and improve it. (wind blows)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:39

      Olie Marchon, welcome to the show.

   3. OMOllie Marchon0:41

      Thanks for having me, Chris. Good to be back.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:44

      Very good to have you back, man. How's the last year been for you?

2. 0:47 – 11:36

   How Ollie Changed During Lockdown

   1. CWChris Williamson0:47

      Talk to me.

   2. OMOllie Marchon0:49

      Eventful, as I'm sure it has been for many people. Um, but good fun. I think a lot's gone on. Um, has it been a year since we- it's probably been longer than a year since we spoke, I think.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:57

      Yeah, a year and two months.

   4. OMOllie Marchon0:58

      Yeah, so lot's changed. Um, my second son has arrived, so Enzo is now in this world. He's actually one years old tomorrow, which has (laughs) flown by. Um, so learning to become a parent. I think we spoke, we touched on sort of parenting last time, um, when I was on. But yeah, learning to parent two kids has been fun, uh, challenging, um, big change-

   5. CWChris Williamson1:17

      How much harder is two versus one?

   6. OMOllie Marchon1:20

      I'm sure many people that have got two will, will understand. It, it's y- y- you can't even compare it, to be honest. Because particularly-

   7. CWChris Williamson1:25

      It's not just twice as hard, it's more than twice as hard.

   8. OMOllie Marchon1:27

      No. It, it's, it's far more than twice as hard because there's, you, you just can't, you c- a- any sort of plan or, or structure that you try and implement, even, you know, with anything, just goes out the window because th- these are babies we're talking about. So there is no, it's just sort of, there's no self-regulation for them. It just, things happen and, and you've (laughs) just gotta deal with it. So yeah, things like b- being on time leaving the house, feeding, nappies, sleep, all that kinda stuff goes out the window. Um, I mentioned last time I was on that I'm very fortunate that my wife is very good at this sort of thing, so she makes things a lot easier. But yeah, that's, that's been a, a really good, um, challenge. Um, I still think it's probably one area of my life that I don't take as naturally to, um, but it's something that, you know, I, I really enjoy the, um, yeah, I really enjoy the challenge. Uh, other things. Gyms are back open, which is, uh, a big part of, of what we do at Marchon, obviously with our, with our facility, so that's been cool. Um, we've had some growth in areas of the business due to what w- kind of what went on w- when the gym was closed, um, in the online space and kind of awareness, and the community's grown a lot more. What we kind of offer our community is, has grown. That's come with some personnel change as well, so the team's grown. People have kind of been and gone and, and others have kind of joined and, and I guess, taken us to, um, another level because we've got more hands on deck. Um, what else?

   9. CWChris Williamson2:45

      Well, what's different about you now? What's different about the guy that's stood in front of me now than the guy that was stood in front of me 14 months ago?

   10. OMOllie Marchon2:52

       Okay, so I guess the main difference is I'm not locked up at home, so I feel as though-

   11. CWChris Williamson2:56

       (laughs)

   12. OMOllie Marchon2:56

       ... you know, life, life is, life is back to a million and one miles an hour, whereas back then it was very much, it was very, very, for, for someone like me, it was very slowed down. Um, there was a lot of constraints placed, placed on me, and at the time, I probably perceived that as being quite inhibiting. But upon reflection, there's probably a lot of positives that, that were in, that came out of that time, and that maybe if I'd have sat back and, and slowed down a little bit, or, or just been deeper with my thoughts a little bit at the time, I'd have seen a lot more positives in that. It's only now kind of looking back in hindsight that I realize that those things were actually great f- for someone like me. Um, I think in day-to-day, a big change for me is that I've come off the coaching floor. So the identity that I had back then as Olie Marchon, the, the, the coach and personal trainer, which of course I still kinda hold onto that, but fundamentally day-to-day, I don't really do any coaching or, or personal training, so I guess I'm kind of faking it if I, if I (laughs) still say that I, I am, I am a coach. I'm a coach of sorts, but less so on the gym floor.

   13. CWChris Williamson3:50

       What do you do now?

   14. OMOllie Marchon3:53

       This is such a good question. Um, to be honest, I don't actually know, and I know that sounds-

   15. CWChris Williamson3:59

       (laughs)

   16. OMOllie Marchon3:59

       ... that sounds really bad. (laughs) It sounds really bad and it's part, yeah, it's part of the bit as well, I'm sure we'll kinda come onto it, is like this identity change piece that seems to be happening too often or more often than not now in my life. I thought the original identity change was fr- from sort of post-rugby coming into this personal training gym owner sort of realm. Um, obviously I'm still the gym owner, but the day-to-day running of the gym isn't necessarily all in my hands now. There's people that sit in sort of management roles there, operational roles. Um, I guess if we, if we distill it back to the two businesses, Marchon and the PFCA, so Marchon being the, you know, the physical gym, the online training, nutrition, and all the bits that will kinda come with that, there's some roles in, in amongst that, and there's also the PFCA which is the Professional Fitness Coaches Association, which stands for kind of education and mentorship of personal trainers and gym owners. So I guess I'm the key person of influence, and I hate the word influence, within those two businesses, i.e. the person that kinda pulls things together and makes things happen, a bit from a strategic level as well, and I guess just, like, boots on the ground as well in, in different areas with contacts and networking that, that can kind of, like, kick doors down and get in there and get things, get things moving. Um, I think a lot of what I do now, given those people in management ro- roles, is to work collaborately with them to enable them a little bit more, facilitate their kind of growth and development, and also that area of the business, just try and make sure that we are constantly trying to iterate on that, um, and make it as good as we can.

   17. CWChris Williamson5:25

       What's it like then? So you said that you were this guy on the gym floor, being a PT, always being an athlete, always being involved in training, and now you're, you know, closer to an executive board member who's got to be, you know, ops director, logistics, making sure that the branding guidelines are done right. What were some of the challenges that you went through letting go of that old version of you?

   18. OMOllie Marchon5:47

       I think just the terminology used there is like the bo- the board member, sort of CEO thing, I'm like, "How can you be a-"

   19. CWChris Williamson5:52

       Does it make you want to throw up in your mouth?

   20. OMOllie Marchon5:53

       It does a little.

   21. CWChris Williamson5:54

       (laughs)

   22. OMOllie Marchon5:54

       It does a little bit, but it's like, how can you be a CEO when you're just a personal trainer? I still kinda have that mindset.

   23. CWChris Williamson5:59

       Yeah.

   24. OMOllie Marchon6:00

       I guess the main differences being for someone who's always been appointment-based, alarm would go off at a certain time every day because I've got to be somewhere for 6:00 AM ordinarily. You know, that's, that's the latest I would ever start, at 6:00 AM on the gym floor, session starts or gym opens. And you, you're gonna ... You know, when you're in the moment on that, quote-unquote, "shift" of delivering personal training, there is nothing really else that you should be thinking about, ideally. Towards the latter stage of my career on the gym floor, there was plenty of things I was thinking about outside of coaching because I knew things needed to get, get done. And whilst I was on the roll on the gym floor and no one else was in the role of doing those things, it could kind of eat away at me, which actually made my coaching practice, um, not as good, shall we, shall we say? So the, the big difference being, like I say, alarm, routine, structure there, working a shift and then trying to fit things in, in the rest of my day. Um, and then constantly feeling as though ... it's always constantly feels though you never really escape things, but now actually you're just... I'm just escaping or trying to escape. No, I'm not even trying to escape them. I, I now feel as though I can't escape different things. Uh, one big change, significant change in September of last year when gyms did reopen, was that for the first time in my life, I decided not to have an alarm. So I decided to, to make sure that I, you know, I was waking up when my body decided that I was ready to awake, uh, be awake. I mean, kids don't really allow for that. (laughs) So I was often being, being woken up by, by one of the two boys. Um, but that was a big change and, and like I say, I'd find myself waking up almost feeling guilty that I hadn't set an alarm. I was waking up a little bit later ordinarily.

   25. CWChris Williamson7:31

       What sort of time?

   26. OMOllie Marchon7:33

       Um, still, still I'd say around half five, six o'clock latest. Um, sometimes if the boys would sleep in a little bit further, a bit, a little bit later than that, then I, I would probably sleep in a little bit more as well. Um, and then that just sort of like starts that cycle of guilt because, you know, you've not had the alarm, you're not going to work. There's sort of ta- ... I, I, I suppose it's almost like a, a tangible thing where you feel as though your, your value or your impact on the business is you being there in front of the customers, on the gym floor, in front of the members, delivering the product. Whereas now I wasn't delivering the product, I was almost like trying to think of like, where can I take the product and what is the product, what is the bit that I can now influence? So that for a, a, a long, a large period, I'd say sort of three months, it was, took me a while to try and get into a routine. You know, I had my home office, I had, um ... at the time, yeah, it was just a home office. We weren't in the offices where we are now. So I was like, "Where is, well, where's work and where's pleasure?" Like if I'm working from home... And also you get this kind of ... it never really happened and it was never verbalized and I'm sure they never really thought that, but you almost think like the, the people around you that have always seen you as the first person in the gym and maybe the last person there or you're always, you know, in and around when our product was just delivering personal training. It's kind of like it's only just got his feet up now because, you know, he's no longer on the gym floor. So that took a little, a little bit of time to get used to.

   27. CWChris Williamson8:47

       It's so interesting thinking about this over the last year. I don't think it's just business owners that have had this. A lot of people were either given restrictions or opportunities. COVID was a stimulus, and the response to that stimulus from many people was a desire to change something. What should I change? Should I go down a different route with my relationships, with my daily routine? I got exposed to something online that really sort of changed the way that I see the world, or I created new good habits, or I built bad habits over this period of time. And the outcome of that has been for a lot of people that they've needed to let go of a, a version of themselves before that perhaps wasn't serving them quite so well. Or maybe that version was serving them fine and they wanted to scale up and level up to, okay, what's the new version of this? And yeah, that guilt is a big deal, man. Like when you've attached your sense of self-worth to being Oli Marchon, PT on the gym floor, letting go of that must be a challenge.

   28. OMOllie Marchon9:42

       Yeah. The biggest challenge is just a lack of purpose every day. Like when you, when you don't know what that thing is that you're going to go and attack or where you need to be or there's not an appointment, it's almost like the destiny of, or the, yeah, the, my, my sort of fate was back in my own hands and the destiny of where this business was going to try and go was, was all had to be self-actualized by, by me. It's like my... now it's like my, my ideas and all these things I said I was going to do if I didn't have any constraints around me, like, now I don't have the constraints. You know, gym's open, I've taken myself off the gym floor, I now have, by proxy of that, opened up a large period of time which I can go and fill with good work. So now it's down to me to go and do the good work. So, I mean, thankfully the people around me gave me a bit of time to sort of like build in, you know, get my feet under the table with that new role. Um, and not just, not just the, the team members in around me and the coaches, but also the gym members, because for them it's a bit of a change as well. They're kind of, you know, like I said that kind of-

   29. CWChris Williamson10:34

       Where's Oli?

   30. OMOllie Marchon10:36

       Yeah. That, that adds to the guilt as well. It's like, you know, where, where's Oli? Is he ever gonna get back on the gym floor? Is he ... you know, what's, what's, what's he up to now? And I think the position ... some days the position I've kind of moved into, which is a little bit of like a ... I guess in the corporate world, it's a bit of a schmoozer. You know, you're just kind of going out and, and building relationships and networking and looking at opportunities and, and those sort of things. Like for ... and I think a lot of my day-to-day now is actually via social media. In fact, I'd say 75% of my day is taken up by social media. And, and there's not an initial, you know, return on the investment from what you're doing on social media. And that's nothing... I've never even looked for the return on investment on social media. It's kind of happened by default. But I guess compounding on that over time and the sort of success leaving the clues here, it's like the more time I can spend communicating with our community and the people that have kind of bought into following my journey, the others journey, the story of Conor Marchion and what it stands for, the more it actually enables these other things that we're trying to bring out to actually be successful.
3. 11:36 – 20:33

   Over-optimising Routines

   1. CWChris Williamson11:36

      you were very routinized and regimented.

   2. OMOllie Marchon11:38

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson11:39

      How are you operating now? What are the disciplines-

   4. OMOllie Marchon11:41

      Yeah. Okay.

   5. CWChris Williamson11:41

      ... and the processes that you have in place?

   6. OMOllie Marchon11:44

      The routine in, the routine that I had in place before was by... that came about by having more time, right? You're, you're trying to fill your time with, with stuff, particularly during lockdown, where you feel as though you're doing something of, of, of worth, right? Of, of value. So by having almost like this back to back order of events that take, go, go on through your day, you feel as though you're actually working and doing something. And by nature of what the lockdown kind of gave people like, like me, well, everyone really, you had all this time that you could try and fill. And I think I got guilty of just trying to overfill it, but at the time I didn't, I couldn't identify that because it was a situation that we're in, that was the environment that we had. As things begin to open back up and, and change and, you know, and family changes, business changes, the day-to-day changes, all those things that you attached yourself to...... you can no longer do, because it was f- for- it was probably, probably too much. And I think we've all, we've all been there as well, w- we try and optimize every area of our morning routine, every area throughout the day, every area of, of how we, you know, how we, you know, go to bed at night as well. Um, and I've done that in the past a little bit when I came out, uh, came out of rugby before, and it, and it always sort of comes off the back of this identity change bit. It's like, well, I'm struggling to kinda work out where my value actually lies and where my purpose is and what I should be doing, so I'm just going to make sure that I feel as though I'm doing all these things that are actually moving the needle forward by putting all this order and structure in place. So it's changed a lot, and yeah, that, that, that starts with things like, um, I mentioned before with the, with the alarms and things, but I think I was just guilty of over-optimizing, and, and with all that comes a, a... just a lack of enjoyment of where, where you kind of are, um, and I think just on top of that, for me, I n- I'm someone that needs to just keep reminding myself to just be a little bit more present and live in the moment a little bit, little bit more. It's not that I need to try and improve everything that I'm trying to do. The grass isn't always gonna be greener. Just kind of work where your feet are and just try and water the grass where you're standing, um, and I think that's kind of a, a bit of a lesson from that time as well, but only looking back at it now.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:39

      Would you have been able to keep going the way that you were? Like how close do you think that you were to burnout?

   8. OMOllie Marchon13:46

      I think you can keep go- I think you can always keep going if you're, if you're incredibly selfish and it is just all about you, like y- but where I was at 25, 26 years old, even before that, right? So when I was growing up in my early 20s, like when I was, you know, at university trying to get back into rugby, the only thing that mattered to me was rugby. So any girl that came into my life or any sort of social occasion that came into my life, it was always secondary to, "I need to be a full-time rugby player." Same sort of thing happened at 20, 26, 27 when I came out of rugby and it's now like, "I'm gonna go into being this business owner and open a gym." Everything came second to, "I'm gonna open a, open a gym," and I surrounded... I made my entire day and life just what the, the way I thought I needed to be to be a successful gym owner or business owner. And what happens in that process is that, uh, the people around you (laughs) soon get pissed off and are, and just... you know, you're just not a li- a very likable person because you're not well-rounded enough. You don't, you don't have enough balance.

   9. CWChris Williamson14:40

      Yeah, you're just unidimensional, right?

   10. OMOllie Marchon14:42

       Exactly. Um, so I do f- and, and I burnt myself out at, in that sort of 27, 28, uh, yeah, sort of 26, 27, 28, that sort of, that sort of stage. Um, I think just with a little bit more maturity and being a bit wiser and also the fact that there are people that actually depend on me, i.e. my t- my two sons and things, I can't go so far down that road because it's not fair. Which is a large part of, um... you know, we might bring it up later on, but it's a large part of why I've, I've stopped being competitive in, like the fitness space, for example. Uh, p- people kind of often ask that, "Why don't you compete so much?" Because I'm not really the sort of... I'm not able to compete and it just be like, just take part and compete, which is a bit sad (laughs) . And I, I, I'm kind of working on my ability to do that. And yeah, actually last weekend I competed in the National Fitness Games as a last-minute sort of replacement, and I was very much in the, in the, in the mindset of like, I'm really not fit or strong enough to be doing this to the standard I want to be doing it, um, and I feel a bit exposed, but I was able to do it and just have a lot, lots of fun just sort of like, just taking part. So I'm hoping that, like I say, at this s- sort of age I'm c- I'm coming into now and whe- where my life is and all the, all the responsibilities that I have, that I can just allow myself just to take part in things for the pure enjoyment of stuff, and that's been missing for a long time.

   11. CWChris Williamson15:56

       I think we're very much absolutist creatures, right? We have... it's very easy to be completely on your diet, absolutely focused, never breaking it, or to be a complete slob, but to be able to stay on your diet for a couple of weeks then break it once, then stay on your diet for a couple of weeks and break it once. Like the messy middle is exactly where people find challenges, and it's because we attach our sense of identity to the things that we are doing. "I am a professional rugby player." "I am a nightclub promoter." "Now I am a podcaster." "Now I am a gym owner." Whatever it might be. And when you, when you bring these constraints in on life, what you end up doing is you actually wrangle some of the chaos of what's going on into a bit of order, and you think, "Okay, the... I have a narrow set of parameters with which I can tweak and also that I need to be worried about." So Jack Butcher, the guy that does Visualize Value, it's a huge sort of... I don't even know what you'd call it, he, he literally just creates concepts out of famous quotes and makes them graphically look great, been on the show, and he spoke about the fact that one of the first things he wanted to do... Remembering he's a graphic designer, his background is in making things look pretty, the first thing that he did was give himself very hard and fast rules about what they could look like. It was always gonna be white on black, it was always gonna be the same font, it was always gonna be a geometric design. So what he did was he brought the constraints in of the... his chosen pursuit so that he didn't have to worry about colors, fonts, design, and it meant that he focused on the highest point of contribution for him, which is, "How well can I visualize the concept that I'm actually trying to do?" So he wrangled all of this chaos, this unlimited number of colors and fonts and, and styles, wrangled that in, and what it permitted him to do was to really, really focus on one piece of creativity. But I think what a l- lot of people do with it as well is it gives them a sense of comfort. It makes them feel comfortable because they know, "Okay, I just need to get up at 5:30 AM, focus on my, my clients, get myself into the gym, bin it when I'm, when I'm training," so on and so forth. But when you go, "Right, okay, draw yourself back a little bit. Can we have you showing up when you need to in training but knowing that you don't need to give it everything because you have other priorities in there?" You also have the priority-

   12. OMOllie Marchon18:05

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson18:05

       ... of being a dad. You also have the priority of being a leader or a businessman. And again, this comes back to the identity change thing that you've seen and a lot of people will have done coming out of COVID. "Who the fuck am I? Who the fuck am I after a pandemic's happened?" And it's kind of... I haven't really had a lot of conversations now retrospectively looking back at what the pandemic did to people. I think everyone was so sick of talking about it, talking about lockdowns and about, "Oh bro, it's so boring, isn't it?" And, "Gyms aren't open," and stuff like that.But I think that now is the time to really get some great learning experiences out of your period during lockdown. Look back and say, "Okay, what am I like? What, what's the texture of my mind like when I get under stress? What are the so- where are the sort of places that I go to in terms of coping mechanisms? Do I sleep in or do I find myself really drilling down on stuff? Do I need more friends? Was my support structure not there?" All of these sort of things. Um, but yeah, bringing those constraints in and focusing sort of narrow and deep I think is a very common, almost a coping strategy to high pressure, because it narrows your focus onto one thing.

   14. OMOllie Marchon19:09

       I think narrow and deep is something that I need to concern myself a little bit more, because so, so many opportunities. That's the thing I get caught up now, now. Because I have a little bit more, it's not necessarily more time, but because there's, um, my, my, my attention is brought, um, to different things that are going on in the industry, it, it allows more opportunities. And it's almost like I just need to make sure that I, I remain focused on a few things. And that's actually been something that I've been trying to work on with, um... you mentioned it before we, before we started, sort of ambassador deals and working with dif- different bits and pieces that I've done in the past, which, again, was part of my identity. You know, I work with these brands. There's, there's a mutual benefit to, to both parties, and that's, you know, who, who I identified as in, in different sort of sects of the ind- sectors of the industry. But actually just trying to take, take some of those things away from, you know, off my plate, offload these things from my plate for, you know, short-term financial, not pain, but, you know, financial... these things could have really benefited, particularly coming out the back of COVID, some of the things I sort of walked into were to try and, you know, protect these opportunities for, for myself, my wife, my kids, and all these kind of, these kind of things. But what, what I did in doing that was added things to my plate that wasn't allowing me to really focus on like, you know, to use what you said there, is just to go sort of narrow, narrow and deep. It was, it was all these opportunities that in the short term would, would work well, but in the long term vision of what I was trying to achieve... and what the COVID allowed was to try and, you know, get back into what is this long-term vision. Um, you know, things are gonna get back to normal and there's a long time ahead of us to, to get after this. So, it was useful

4. 20:33 – 29:03

   Lessons Ollie Wished He’d Known

   1. OMOllie Marchon20:33

      for me.

   2. CWChris Williamson20:34

      What are some of the lessons that you wish Oli a year ago would have known?

   3. OMOllie Marchon20:39

      Um, I've kind of used, uh, used the term already, but just really being where my feet are. I actually took that from a g- from the performance director at Nike, uh, Ryan Flaherty.

   4. CWChris Williamson20:48

      What does that mean?

   5. OMOllie Marchon20:49

      So, just being, I, I guess just being in the moment. Like, be- yeah, being in the moment, learning to appreciate the, the... each of those moments. Uh, like I've said already, I, I've always been that person that's kind of like that what's next mentality and grass is greener and keep pushing. It's kind of part and parcel of what MarchOn really stands for. But there is still a fair amount of just, like, sitting back and reflecting on where you are right now and appreciating those times. Um, particularly a year ago where I was just able to have more, be- better conversations with the close people around me, um, better quality time spent with, you know, with family members. Um, so I think th- that would be the biggest lesson, is just to, is to appreciate, appreciate everything we've done in the past to get to where we are today and just be, you know, live in the moment a little bit better.

   6. CWChris Williamson21:32

      Given that you're an ex-elite level athlete who performed and was always about trying to improve, trying to up their game, do you feel... do you have a sense of fear in the back of your mind that this being present nerfs some of the drive that was what made you competitive in the first place?

   7. OMOllie Marchon21:51

      Yeah, I think that's a pretty good way to, a pretty good way to, um, to be. I think when you are a competitor at heart, like you're constantly looking for just like that, that next bit of adv- that next bit of advantage, like, "Where c- where can I go from here? How can I continue to try and level up?" Find that, that competitive advantage over, you know, the people around you. Um, but it can be quite destructive at times because you don't actually know what you're aiming for. You don't actually know what, what is next, you just think there is something there. Um, and I think given... like I say, just wh- the, the fact that we were... like my business, and I know, I've got a lot of friends and peers who, you know, their business unfortunately didn't quite make it. Given that we were able to do what we did in that time, I should have just appreciated that even though at the time I felt as though life was re- you know, with the door, the doors of our gym closed, life was pretty miserable, there was a lot of things that were going on. Even just the growth of the personnel around me as well, you know, the team members within MarchOn, how much growth they got from being able to adapt. Um, pivot, uh, is a terrible word that was used too much, but change the, you know, change the working conditions, the environment, how we delivered our products and services, the opportunities that we looked at, that we seeked, um, the development of all those products as well. They grew tenfold in a year. Like, you wouldn't, you wouldn't see that sort of growth in, in an individual over that sort of time, um, because it was such an artificial, tough time to try and develop yourself. So yeah, we've come out of it with just huge, huge lessons and learn-ons and, um, you know, all of us are just much stronger for it.

   8. CWChris Williamson23:18

      I think most people really don't appreciate the price that high performing individuals pay to be great at their career. So, Eddie Hall's a really good example of this. The year that he won World's Strongest Man, I saw an interview with him and he was saying, "If I hadn't won World's Strongest Man that year, I would likely be either dead and/or divorced." Because his marriage was on the rocks because of the sacrifices he was making for his sport, his body was being... I think he's like... I think he's only 6'1", which in that sport isn't actually that big, and was nearly 200 kilos. So he was just this m- sort of boulder of a human wandering about, blood pressure through the roof, and he nearly fainted after doing that deadlift, had to get put on oxygen. Just g- generally everything in his life was wrecked. But because everybody saw that very narrow domain of competence that they applauded him in... yeah, but he's, he's the strongest man on the planet. And he says if he hadn't given that up, he reckons that everything would have gone kaput. Wouldn't have had a relationship with his wife, which would have included his kids. Would have maybe been dead or had some sort of significant problems. And what people need to realize is that the price that you have to pay to be that person that you admire within a very narrow domain is probably one that you wouldn't be prepared to put your hand in your pocket and write the check for. You wouldn't pay the price that you had to be to be Eddie Hall.... and the price perhaps that you were paying to be Olly March on previously was one that long term, y- when you look at it you think, "Well, I don't wanna pay that. I don't wanna pay this price. I don't want to not be able to just train for the enjoyment of training. I don't want to be able to always have to feel like the emails need answering." This is one of the things that got brought up on our last chat that, you know-

   9. OMOllie Marchon25:03

      Mm-hmm.

   10. CWChris Williamson25:03

       ... 8:00 PM, 9:00 PM, 10:00 PM at night, and that was obviously because you were still the linchpin that held everything together because you hadn't scaled the business down, because you hadn't delegated control, you hadn't given these other people roles to play in. And I think that this is, it's something that every businessman needs to or businesswoman needs to understand, that as you grow within the business, you as the figurehead, the forefront of what you are doing, you can't be that if you want to scale. It simply doesn't work, because over time all that happens is more and more pressure lands on your shoulders. But broader than that, as you grow up as a young guy or girl into the, the... solidify the kind of life that you want to have, presumably with a family, that also probably isn't scalable from what you did in your 20s. You know, the 60-hour weeks, they don't work. The same goes-

   11. OMOllie Marchon25:48

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson25:48

       ... for what I do with the nightlife stuff. You know, the way that me and my business partner used to work, staying up till 6:00 in the morning to complete the accounts and, and run back over the night, uh, he's got three kids now, and I need to wake up and I've got my stuff to do with the podcast. Like, that, that can't happen. So everybody needs to let go of w- who it was that they thought they were, and you see it with people that can't. You see it with the, the punchdrunk boxer that still is trying to win a world title at 40, 45 years old. You see it with the businessmen who constantly sacrifice their entire lives in a desperate attempt to try and achieve a goal, that when they actually look at it, they're probably not that bothered about either. But it's difficult, having the, the little tolerances, taking things with compromise. It's hard.

   13. OMOllie Marchon26:32

       100%. It's that, that phrase, isn't it? It kind of it works then it doesn't. Um, and I think, you know, it's something that I- I sort of preach with the, the guys we look after in the, in the mentorship, is that a lot of us that are, you know, running our own businesses or working, whatever we're doing, whatever we're doing this for, it's sort of constantly trying to just draw the, the correlation back to, like, why are we doing it? Because a lot of the decisions we make usually take us away, further away from what we're actually trying to achieve. You know, a lot of them are, are financially driven and that... of course, because, uh, you know, more money s- potentially gives us more freedom, but the life we want to live, I always say to the people that we w- work with is kind of like, "Define your perfect day and let's work back from that." Or the perfect week. What does that perfect job, d- you know, that perfect day or ch- perfect job role look like? And what, you know, what's the sort of, uh, money we need to earn? What's the, you know, qualifications we need to go and get? Do we need to go and acquire some more knowledge? How can we implement these skillsets? What's the environment we wanna try and work in, be it, you know, offices, gyms, whatever it may be? And once I think you've, you've done a bit of that, that, that work, then you can allow some compromise because the thing that you think it needed to be isn't necessarily the be all and end all anymore.

   14. CWChris Williamson27:33

       There's this quote that I put in a newsletter recently from John Maxwell and he says, "You cannot overestimate the unimportance of practically everything."

   15. OMOllie Marchon27:41

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson27:42

       W- what he's saying is that the vast majority of stuff that we do doesn't contribute toward our higher goals. For the first time ever in human history, we have problems of abundance, not problems of scarcity. Too much food, too much convenience, too many options for what to do with our lives.

   17. OMOllie Marchon27:57

       Mm-hmm.

   18. CWChris Williamson27:58

       Like, what is the thing that you want to do? Where do you want to be in one or two years time? And how many hours did you spend today doing something that directly contributes to that? The vast majority of people, if they actually look at how they spend their time, it's not contributing to their higher order goals. It's just doing all of the other shit that sits around it. Like, I, I genuinely think that being ruthless with planning and then neutering everything that doesn't contribute to that plan solves pretty much every productivity problem. I- I- I honestly think that that's the case. Like, and this allure of novelty means that everyone's always compelled to do something different, to... You know, you said yourself, "I've got to get rid of some of the sponsorships and the affiliate deals because they're distracting me from my, my core contribution to what I do in my business." But it's hard. This FOMO. FOMO is a fucking hell of a drug.

   19. OMOllie Marchon28:46

       It's that, you used the word, it's the, that abundant mindset, right? And it, that, that links also to that, those, those routines we were talking about during lockdown. It's like, "H- how much more can I put on my plate?" And so y- it's almost like just a, a man test or, or a woman test to see how much you can do until...

   20. CWChris Williamson28:58

       Suffering man. Yeah, exactly.

   21. OMOllie Marchon28:59

       ... yeah, until you, until you break. Um, so yeah, 100%.

5. 29:03 – 41:28

   Pushing Your Limits

   1. OMOllie Marchon29:03

   2. CWChris Williamson29:03

      How do you know when you're pushing too hard and when you're not pushing hard enough?

   3. OMOllie Marchon29:09

      Usually the people around me will (laughs) , will, will, will tell. But I'm, I'm pretty self-aware, to be honest. I think because I've got so much lived experience from pushing too hard or not... there's not been, been many times where I've not, not pushed too hard to be honest, but I kind of know where that line is now. I know when I'm t- towing it a little bit t- too much. I think also there's, uh, sort of this kind of, like, flow state mentality where things feel effortless. If things feel effortless, you're able to... You know, you've, you've acquired that specific knowledge of what you feel as though you're the expert in a way you can have the most impact in, in that portion of your life.

   4. CWChris Williamson29:39

      But now, now the situation that you're in now-

   5. OMOllie Marchon29:42

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CWChris Williamson29:42

      ... you no longer have that specific knowledge quite so much. You're venturing into new territory. You're not doing the things that you used to do. Is there a little bit of imposter syndrome creeping in with, with sort of where you're going to at the moment?

   7. OMOllie Marchon29:53

      100%. B- but I've always... I think it is every sort of stage of my life and growth through my career, there's always been imposter syndrome. Even in my sporting s- career, going from, you know, playing club rugby in, in the national leagues to going into a high performance environment like England, there's always been an imposter syndrome. But I think, again, someone that's trying to push, someone that's constantly trying to push themselves is always going to f- uh, feel that. So it's something I've, I've dealt with and, and kind of lived with a long time and I've... I can recognize it and it's almost like part and parcel of, of, uh, o- of, of daily life. Um, but I think... I think, yeah, the, the more I'm just getting to, getting used to this new chapter of what, you know, where I can have impact. And I think now, you know, before, seeing impact would be the look on someone's face when they leave a training session or, you know, or, or them sending me that message afterwards saying-... that was the best session I've had in a long time, or I've done this, or I've done that, or seeing someone PB their lift, whatever it may be. I'd get that initial kind of return. I, I knew that I was having impact there and then. I think now, I hate these terms, but you know, go a- looking at now the, the, the figures of the business and where there's growth and sort of the key ke- KPIs, be it financial or just like gro- growth of, of different areas, something's got to be going right. And it's either the fact that I'm doing what I'm doing now, or it's the fact that I've delegated and put people and facilitated in those roles where they're now doing their bit right, but there's still, there's sort of proofs in, in, in that now. So I think even though the job role is a little bit unfamiliar to me, and it'll become more familiar as, as time goes on, I can still see that I must be having the impact that I've set out to have because things are kinda moving in that direction.

   8. CWChris Williamson31:21

      This is another thing that business people as they grow up have to understand. Previously, you used to see the look on your customer's face when you served them one of your signature donuts or the compliment that you got as somebody left your club night or the way that somebody felt as they walked out of your gym, whatever. But then after a while, you go, "Right, okay, if I want to scale this up, I can't rely on an individual person's, uh, feedback." Like I, I need to be able to aggregate the shit that's going on. And you're right. Like i- i- it's a bit of an ugly, or it's a frowned upon term to talk about the fact that, "Oh, the accounts are kind of going to be one of the ways that I look at this impact," but that is an aggregation of what's going on. It's very difficult to run a business badly and to see it growing, especially in a competitive space like fitness.

   9. OMOllie Marchon32:08

      Yeah, 100%. And those things really matter now because there's a lot of people with sort of, you know, salaries and mortgages, and there's a lot of responsibility on those things actually growing, so I need to now pay a bit more attention to it. Whereas in the past, it was something like, uh, something that d- never really interested me 'cause I never really went, went into to, to, for all those things. But I think as a business grows and, and tries to scale and, and has a bit more of a profound effect, I've needed to take more interest and spend more time with the accountants and actually look at these things in a bit more granular detail.

   10. CWChris Williamson32:33

       Mm. How do you deal with down days if your mindset's not right?

   11. OMOllie Marchon32:38

       Um... good question. I've not had many down days for, for a long time, apart from when I got COVID. That was, that was a, that was a tough time. (laughs) Um, how do I deal with down days? I think just going and filling it with things that I actually enjoy doing, um, which ordinarily is kind of some form of physical ex- exertion because I feel as though that's when I feel most alive. It allows me just to go to a place where my, my head can be emptied and I can be at one with kind of thoughts and, and try and f- you know, distill and filter out why it is that I'm potentially down. Um, having conversations. Again, I think as I've matured, I'm, I'm more, definitely more open about having conversations. Before, in the past, I've been more of a closed book, um, because I'm a- it's, it's often hard to talk, uh, particularly sort of male masculinity, right, just to talk about feelings and, and, and showing vulnerability or weakness. So that's something that has, has, has definitely changed so I'm willing to have those conversations more. Um, but also just accept that these things are, it's just, uh, they're feelings, they'll pass. So be at one with them for the period that they need to be there and g- go and do what, go and do whatever you can do to either rest, recover, and make yourself feel a little bit better by, by your actions, or just accept that a little bit of time will, will go past and you'll be back to where you wanted to be.

   12. CWChris Williamson33:53

       That's a really good insight, the fact that everything is just going to be transient, right? It's here for today and maybe today and tomorrow and maybe a couple more days after that, and then it's going to leave. And this is why when we look back on periods of challenge, we can see them with a little bit more equanimity and actually maybe fall in love with some of the difficulties that we've had. Now you go through a period like COVID, and at the time, you know, you said, "This feels uncomfortable. There's uncertainty about the future." You look back and you realize, "Fuck, look at how much growth came out of this." But at the time, it feels really bad. But this, this happens every time that there's a challenge. Like it's every single time you come up against something, it feels shit in the moment. You look back and you appreciate it. So I'm wondering whether there's a way, or I, I think it's, would be advantageous for everybody to try and develop a way where they can have that perspective, a little bit more perspective in the moment. Like, "Look, I've observed something in me this morning. I've woken up and I've felt shit. All right, uh, looks like today's just gonna be a sort of grit my teeth and, and move through it. Maybe I'm not gonna PB today, but that's all right. I, I might PB tomorrow, and if I just get through today, little wins, little wins, little wins, get to bed tonight, right, sweet." You wake up tomorrow and everything feels okay. Like that's the level of self-confidence that I think you want to get to. It s- it seems to me like you have quite a lot of, of confidence in your own ability, even if you are pushing new grounds. Where do you think that comes from?

   13. OMOllie Marchon35:16

       Yeah, I, I think I, I probably got sometimes too much. I, I, I often say, so if someone came along and took everything from me, I'd, I've still got myself, so I'll start again with, with wherever I'm, where, wherever I'm left. I think the confidence grows from just lived experiences, you know, trying things, failing, learning from that, trying things, winning, learning from that, um, putting myself in the firing line. And you mentioned about, you know, the, the sort of like live in the moment thing just then, I think each day I try and fill my day with sometimes too many challenges, but as many challenges as possible to make sure that when I put my head on the pillow at night, I feel fulfilled and that I've actually sh- I've, I've grown as a person in whatever domain I'm kind of trying to grow. Um... I spo- A lot of people o- often say to me that I'm always on the go, I'm constantly doing things, uh. I'm just trying to live the life that I've got and my poten- and try and fulfill my potential. I'm trying to live life to the fullest. It's a bit of a wanky comment, but if I do all of those things, like I say, there's gonna be some times that are gonna be really tough, sometimes that are gonna go really well. I've been able to get myself to... You mentioned what I d- what do I do now, and this kind of ties into it. I actually think what I do now is ride the wave and the success of the people that are around me. That's fundamentally my day-to-day, what it's like now. There's people in positions that surround me and kind of look out after me and prop up who Oli Marchen is now, so that a lot of the success people see or the, lot of the, whatever you see of me is usually the work of the people around me and, you know, side by, side by side. Um, so, so long as those people are still around, I think I'm gonna be all right. (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson36:47

       Man, yeah, I mean, this is another thing of a businessman or a businesswoman, like, letting go of you being the person that drives the growth and getting in people that are smarter than you or better than you in a ton of different, w, places. You know, you look at somebody like Ben Francis, the guy behind Gymshark, and he's now got like, he's MD, um, I swear he used to look after Adidas or Reebok or somebody, and you think like, "That guy's got 10 times the experience that you've got." You're still head of the tree. Like, you're still the guy that's driving the brand forward, you're still the one that understands the, the real nuances about the positioning with regards to the brand, and there's an importance to have a figurehead as well there that's been from ground floor all the way up. But you need to be able to recruit people that are smarter than you, and then-

   15. OMOllie Marchon37:28

       Yeah. Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson37:28

       ... sort of applaud them when they do the work on your behalf.

   17. OMOllie Marchon37:31

       Yeah, I just sort of looked at the segments of kind of w- what does my gym, my, my, my job role look like when I'm spread too thin, and how can I start to like work with and offload some of these bits to people who are just more specialists, who can just focus on that? But actually, you bring up a thing that, you know, Ben Francis is probably the, the person that s- well, at least someone like me would, you know, watch all the YouTube videos and try and just take as much from him as, as possible. In that for us to go to this next level now, sometimes I am left questioning whether I now need that board of people or those people that sit above me, be it someone who's been a founder and taken a business from, you know, the ground, the ground right u- you know, right up, be it someone who's got s- s- experience as a CEO, be it someone who's got experience in whatever sort of sections or whatever areas of our business need expertise. Sometimes I'm left kind of wondering like, either I need to go and find that myself, um, and that might be how I actually spend my time, let's go and develop myself or that area of my game, or I need to go and find someone that I can kind of work with or they work with me in that sort of, I guess, overseeing role to make sure that we get there. Because everything's great for us and we, I, I feel as though we can, we will still move in a direction that is, you know, towards where we're trying to get to, but it just might be too slow if it's left just to me to do it, particularly with the kind of ambitions that we have now. Um, so yeah, that's, that's always something I'm constant- constantly pondering over is like where, where's the gaps in what I'm tr- in where I am now and how can I, you know, doing the social media thing is very easy, but how can I actually make sure that the stuff that I am doing is in line with the bigger goal?

   18. CWChris Williamson39:01

       The interesting thing there is that that hasn't impacted your confidence, that accepting that there are limits to your capability, that you can't be master of all trades, hasn't made you feel like you're lacking in some place, and I think that this is again, another really fucking important lesson that it's like, look, it's not due to a lack of capacity on your part that you need to get other people in. Like there are people that have specialized in fucking... y- you don't try and do your own accounts, like you have an accountant for a reason. Just roll that out across everything, brand design, graphic design, operations, logistics, customer service, HR, whatever the fuck it is, like all of these different things are very, very specialized areas and just because you think that you can do it, like letting go of that desire to be the guy that sorts everything out is one of the most important things that I think young business people need to be able to do. Let go of the fucking tether to you controlling everything in your business, find people that you trust slowly over time, stress test them, see if they work, see if they fit within the industry, see if they fit within the company, and then let them run wild and just check in with them and keep them motivated, that's it.

   19. OMOllie Marchon40:07

       I'm, uh, 100%. The people that are associated with our business now pretty much have free rein to do what they want. You know, the only thing we say is like, unless it's gonna cost us, and we put a figure on like, don't make a fuck up that's gonna cost us this and don't make a fuck up that's gonna cost the brand this as, as reputation, otherwise just get on, get on, make mistakes, fail fast, move on, try things, be innovative. Um, and it's not always easy, right? Because you can't just employ people and s- you know, all of a sudden you've got all these people that you need to, you know, you're constantly, as, as your business looks to grow and scale, particularly a business m- like mine that's never taken investment, like we've never, we don't have deep pockets, we're not backed by anyone, it's hard to be able to pay the salaries of some of these experts that you need to have on board, um, which is why I'm so grateful that we've got this aspirational brand that people wanna come, come and work for because often they kind of come in at a level that, you know, is, is a little bit under where they may, maybe-

   20. CWChris Williamson40:58

       They'll take a hit on the pay packet-

   21. OMOllie Marchon40:59

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson40:59

       ... because they want to be associated with a brand, yeah.

   23. OMOllie Marchon41:01

       Yeah, but I'm k- I'm kind of like, look, if we take this punt and you come on this journey with us and you can s- you can, you can see it binds the vision that we're trying to get to, like I promise I'll get you there. Like we, we will get there eventually, we just need to do these cons- these, these steps first and foremost, um, together and they're gonna have a huge influence on that as well, which often gives them a lot of s- exc- excitement as well. Um, but when we get there like I will still, I promise I'll still be the last person to eat at the table we just, you know, as a small business, we need to just do things

6. 41:28 – 50:24

   Biggest Gym Errors

   1. OMOllie Marchon41:28

      a certain way.

   2. CWChris Williamson41:28

      Mm. So given the fact that you're not on the gym floor anymore, I'm gonna tap into your old training expertise. A lot of people probably kickstarting a fitness journey again after a big period off, gyms finally starting to get themselves back towards a critical capacity, what are some of the biggest errors that you see people making in your gym and during your time training them that are restricting their progress?

   3. OMOllie Marchon41:56

      Um, it's difficult because I, you know, again, one of our things is like in the past it's been train everything, ready for anything but I think people at sort of my level of training experience that have done the sets and reps for a number of years can kind of do that. But even now I'm finding, I'm actually training for a marathon now, and I, even now I'm getting frustrated because I'm doing all this running, but I've actually, my goals aren't to be a better runner and to, obviously one of my goals in the short term is to do well in this marathon, but I'm doing it because it's gone almost like a, a bucket list thing, whereas it's not really one of the, the goals that I've, I would have for my health and fitness right now. So it is just about trying to hone in on what is it that you're trying to achieve, like is it the person that's trying to just move away from pain and just have a bit more better quality of life, you know, in, in whatever years they're in right now and is it about longevity and those kind of things? Is it about the aesthetic or the aesthetic side of things? Is it about trying to, you know, build some strength, whatever it may be, but just hone into as to what, what the goal is, um, because I think s- people just spread themselves too thin, again with this kind of abundant mindset and particularly the offering that fitness brings these days is that you can literally do anything, um, and they just throw as much stuff at themselves as they can.

   4. CWChris Williamson42:57

      So the first one would be pick your goal.

   5. OMOllie Marchon43:00

      Yeah, ch- choose a goal and just like focus in it. I think a lot of people that come into our world, the functional fitness space, just haven't done the sets and reps, the sort of multiple muscular contractions, the general physical preparedness, and they wanna go and, you know, they want their, um, (smacks lips) their, their body... Well, I can't remember the phrase, but it's something around the, the mind's trying to cash checks... The body's trying to cash... The, the mind is writing checks that the body can't cash. You know, they, they're trying to do all these things that they've seen other people do because of social media and things that they're not a- a- able to do yet. And there's, there's like a... It's a level of just kind of earning the right in, in, in the fitness world.

   6. CWChris Williamson43:32

      All right, so let's say that it's someone who's got a few years of training behind them, maybe taking a little break, maybe just sort of ticked over with training. What are the principles that you think like, "Right, okay, here are some fucking mistakes that I often see people making." They're aiming for getting in good shape. They wanna be fit, but aesthetics are also a part of it. Where are they, where are people often going wrong in your experience?

   7. OMOllie Marchon43:55

      (sighs) So again, linked to the fact they're trying to do too much, so just find that minimum effective dose, right? We, we wanna play the long game first and foremost. We wanna make sure that we still are able to train relatively hard, but we're staying underneath that sort of like, that capacity where we're, we're under-recovered going into our next session. Particularly for people that aren't fitness professionals or athletes where they have to go and perform in different arenas outside of the gym, be it at work, at home, with their family, and what have you. So just make sure that you're doing that minimum effective dose. Anything above and beyond that is brilliant. If we go too far, then we're gonna, there's gonna be a law of diminishing returns. I think picking something, again, the modality of training, the environment that you know that you physically really enjoy. You wanna be able to go to that place, often it's gonna either be before work, on your lunch break, or after work, that you actually want to be there. You want to, yeah, you wanna be, make sure that... 'Cause that's gonna boost adherence, it's gonna, you're gonna have more buy-in, um, and it'll make the whole process more enjoyable, which therefore means you're probably gonna do it for a little bit longer. Um, I would then try and surround yourself, e- e- either with a buddy that you're gonna go and train with, or the people at the gym, or even just the, the owners of the gym themselves, or a trainer with people that motivate you, can hold you accountable, um, and again, feed that, just that level of enjoyment. Um, and then, then just the low-hanging fruits, just like don't eat like a kid, (laughs) you know. Eat s- sensibly. Um, don't restrict yourself too much. Like make sure that you are just able to, to be consistent, you know, throughout the week, but you, you probably need to just accept that there's gonna be days that are gonna go better than others. Um, make sure you're getting to bed on time. Just the usual things. I think most of us just wanna be training for, to look good first and foremost, I do think that's a big driver for most people, but it's for longevity and health. And that really just, just needs a consistent mindset, right, and playing the long game. Train three to four times a week, things that you enjoy doing. If you do wanna build muscle, we know we have to lift some weights. There's gotta be a stimulus. Um, eat well, sleep w- like as well as you can, and job's a good'un.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:49

      I like it, man. We, it, the, the movement that we've seen over the last three years or so, f- three to five years, which you've been a part of, and then other people like maybe James Smith have been a slightly more outspoken part of, has kind of been this return to the fundamentals, you know, calorie deficit if you want to lose fat, progressive overload if you want to build muscle. Make sure that you sleep, make sure that you eat, make sure that you get enough protein, make sure that you find a modality that makes you want to train. Because if you train a lot, then you're complying, and your compliance is the key driver of your results. And the one there that people rarely talk about is finding a training partner or finding a, a group of people that you can train with that really, really gas you up, because that's a huge difference. That having somebody that you're in the gym with that gets you out of your own head, that gets you out of your own thought process, and encourages you to do some more reps, to do some more sets, that holds you accountable to the training plan that you're going in there to do. Now, outsourcing your willpower to either a class or a training partner is one of the easiest things that you can do. You just need to find either that person or that class.

   9. OMOllie Marchon46:51

      100%. I think outsourcing, yeah, outsourcing your willpower to a program, right? So when you go in there, there's just something there just like, "Just do-"

   10. CWChris Williamson46:57

       What the fuck are you in there to do? Yeah, as opposed to-

   11. OMOllie Marchon46:59

       Yeah, to, to do this.

   12. CWChris Williamson46:59

       ... "I'm gonna walk over here and walk over there."

   13. OMOllie Marchon47:01

       Yeah, uh, y- you mentioned, earlier on we mentioned Sharp Monday and Mindset Day, but that's a big part... The, what they've become now is like everyone just shows up on those days on the program, so on the, on the Marchon program. It's like the amount of people now that are posting, you know, "Mindset Day," and just you know then it's one and everyone's in it for the same, for the same reason. And we've, we've, we've said like today it doesn't really matter what the scores are. It's a competitive environment, our programming, but it's like effort is the only currency. Just show up and put in the work, and you're gonna have a good outcome. Um, I think you mentioned, you know, you mentioned me in the same sentence as, as James Smith, which is quite nice. Um, but I think the, the key driver with that and the messaging behind all of this from, from the likes of myself and, and, and him and, you know, a lot of other people, that's been bought out- borne out of the fact that I think now because all this information, imagery, what people's idea of fitness needs to be and what people look like now in the fitness space is so readily available through social media or on all these different platforms. We do need to bring it back to just like the reality of how this shit actually goes down. A lot of what you see isn't sustainable for most people and it is a load of bullshit. The basics done very well consistently over time, yes, they might be boring, but that is where most people are actually gonna have most success. And it's, it's the people that just don't get bored of the basics that will be the people that are in shape year on year, um, when the others that are just jumping on bandwagons are gonna have... So it's gonna, it's gonna ebb and flow, um, but more often than not, they're gonna be in, in sort of troughs rather than peaks.

   14. CWChris Williamson48:28

       There was a, an interview that James Smith did with, I wanna say the head of the Chinese weightlifting team, and he asked him what the difference was between the guys that make it to the absolute elite that compete on the world stage and the guys that are just below, and he said that it's the athletes that can deal with the boredom of daily training the best, that we look at somebody-

   15. OMOllie Marchon48:46

       Mm-hmm.

   16. CWChris Williamson48:46

       ... like a Matt Fraser or a, you know, an Eli Marchon, and we presume that every single day they're absolutely gassed to go and do... Like, you know, in Matt's programming, if you've got 45 minutes of monostructural work on a, on a rowing machine, like no one's excited for that. Not even a rower's excited for that. That fucking sucks.... but if you can man up, if you can dig deep and find yourself some motivation to get you through that, that makes a difference. That's where you will grow.

   17. OMOllie Marchon49:14

       It's, it's the same in any sort of area of life, right? Whether it's your training or any kind of area in what you're trying to do, it's the, it's those sets of reps and it's the boring stuff that compounds over time. As long as you're doing the, the right boring stuff, the compounds over time, that's gonna give you the desired outcome. We, we spoke about it earlier, like most people just can't create order around those, those fr- a few things. They can create order around one or two areas of their life, be it that pertain to work or family. But as soon as you've got to create order around the kitchen, around training, around work, around family, around social occasions, something falls apart. It's the people that have the ability to do those four or five things that then people think, "Oh, they've got all their shit together." They've just spent a bit of time trying to create that order, find what works, iterate on the process. When it does work, just allow compounding interest, uh, to, to, to, to take its, you know, take care of things. When it doesn't work, try and improve it. Um-

   18. CWChris Williamson50:08

       So they don't, they don't have everything sorted, they just have the few things that matter sorted.

   19. OMOllie Marchon50:14

       Exactly, yeah. Yeah. And it, for most people there's, they can sort one or two, but the people that you think have their shit together, they're just sorting three or four, so just-

   20. CWChris Williamson50:21

       (laughs)

   21. OMOllie Marchon50:21

       ... get one or two other things.

7. 50:24 – 55:21

   Adjusting to Fatherhood

   1. CWChris Williamson50:24

      What about fatherhood, man? Obviously we, we touched on it earlier on. You've now got two boys and wife and now juggling different businesses and stuff like that. What about some of the learnings of being a, a young dad over the last year?

   2. OMOllie Marchon50:38

      I'm, I'm quite hard on myself, I think, with this, and I think sometimes it's, it's, I think I, I still, I think it's justi- justi- justified. It's the bit that I find the hardest out of everything that, that I did-

   3. CWChris Williamson50:47

      Why do you think that is? What do you... And what do you mean by hardest?

   4. OMOllie Marchon50:52

      I think it just doesn't come naturally to me. Like I, I get, you know, when the boys are crying or if they're kicking off or there's something, like my patience is so short, so I'm like, yeah, um, I, I just, it, I get frustrated very quickly. Like I've, I've been left with the two boys, you know, a couple of, a couple of weekends over the last year, and I can do like one day and I'm like, "Where's my parents? I need my mum to come around here now and help me out." Just, I think because, because we, yeah, because they are just so, it's so chaotic, right, that you can't, you can't create any sort of structural routine. You have to be so... and this is where Lauren's so great and I think where most mothers or, or, or parents that just get it, they're so selfless. Like it's like everything they, they exist for that day is to serve other people. And I'm like that with most, most things, like I want to serve everyone around me. It's almost just like a next level when it comes to like a kid, like a baby. Like you need to be, you need to just, you need to put anything that you had on that day or that you wanted to get done to the back of your mind 'cause it's just not happening in the way in which you want it to happen. Um, I also think just, just being able to spend more quality time. Again, because of the nature of our business and the nature of like how competitive it is and, and, and the, the way in which I need to operate day-to-day, social media, whatever it may be, that can often creep into and leak into times where I'm supposed to be, well, where I should be being present with, with other bits and pieces. But at the same time, coming off the gym floor and not needing to be in a particular place on certain days, there are obviously occasions where I've got appointments, but I'm now able to do things like drop my son at school, pick him up, go to these sort of things. Whereas in the past, that would've meant potentially taking a day o- off work or, or off the gym floor. So there's been some successes, some failures, but there's definitely a lo- a lot of work, um, still to, still to come.

   5. CWChris Williamson52:47

      I'm fascinated by this transition from business owner to fatherhood and, and letting go of some of the challenges. 'Cause previously, in a business, if somebody had been kicking off as much as your kids were, you'd fire them.

   6. OMOllie Marchon53:01

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson53:01

      But you can't fire your own children, apparently.

   8. OMOllie Marchon53:04

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, I think the, the biggest sacrifice I've made, and it's actually something I identified a couple of weeks ago, I don't need any violins being played because I do have access to, uh, you know, a lot more resource and time to train. But the biggest sacrifice over the last kind of couple of years I think is, is actually myself as the athlete. I think I've done r- really well as the, as the business owner and to drive the business and to recruit well and, and to keep that moving forward. I think where, where what's really suffered is myself as the athlete. You know, and I, and I, I probably play the age card a little bit too much on this, but coming here at 33 is no great age, but I'm definitely not in, in my prime anymore. Um, I'm definitely at the other side of that and being surrounded by so many young bulls that are so good at, you know, on the gym floor or, or, or in, you know, on the, on the training floor. I think that's the biggest sacrifice and that's something that I want to try and post this marathon really try and have one last go at it, have one, uh, uh, post that over there-

   9. CWChris Williamson53:56

      What does that look like?

   10. OMOllie Marchon53:58

       I'm not quite sure. I just think a bit more pro- just, again, it's gonna probably me go, going back to a little bit of that obsessive person and something else will have to, will, will have to give. Um, I'm not quite sure what that is now, but just going back to the advice I just, I just said there is like just focus on what is the goal now. Like in the past, I've resulted, uh, if we're talking, um, about myself, what's, what's resulted here is like a jack of all trades. Yeah. And I, and I, and I stand by that still being the thing that I want to be. You know, I can go, I can, I can go and run a marathon or five weeks training and, and do pretty well. I can still sprint, jump, lift weights, go and compete in fitness events, that kind of thing. But there was a time in my life where I literally felt invinci- invincible with the sort of weights that I could lift or what I could actually achieve with my body, and that's not just there, that's not there anymore. So I just think there needs to be some deliberate practice and just trying to gain a bit more weight, get a little bit stronger, get a little bit more robust, and actually go through some training cycles and phases, um, to really try and push the needle. How long that will last and whether I'll, you know, actually see that through, I'm not quite sure 'cause I don't really know what's around the corner, but I think it was like the catalyst was on the National Fitness Games the other week, just like, I'm just that little bit off the top guys in some of those, in some of those, um-... uh, some of the, some of the events, you know, being the top end strength stuff. And I just wanna have-

   11. CWChris Williamson55:16

       (coughs)

   12. OMOllie Marchon55:16

       ... I wanna have one last go at it before it's too late.

   13. CWChris Williamson55:19

       That's something that very few people

8. 55:21 – 1:03:16

   Accepting the Effects of Ageing

   1. CWChris Williamson55:21

      have spoken about. I've never really heard anyone have a conversation about this, and me and you are the same age. Talking about what it feels like to watch your physical prime fall through your fingers, like to watch that happen. 'Cause you see with elite athletes, you know, um, Cristiano Ronaldo has just gone back to, to Manchester United-

   2. OMOllie Marchon55:41

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson55:41

      ... and everyone can't believe that he's worth this much money. Like, "HE'S 36," in capital letters, was trending on Twitter because they just couldn't believe the fact that this guy who's of that age. But outside of that, it doesn't matter that you're not a, an elite athlete, letting go of what you used to be able to do. Because throughout your 20s, you know, for, for all of life, you're on this sort of ascension. You're an appreciating asset physically.

   4. OMOllie Marchon56:08

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson56:08

      You're getting stronger, you're acquiring new skills, your capacities are growing up, you're more robust, you're better neurologically, all of this stuff. And then you, like, start to feel, you know, when a lift stops and you sort of notice that you're floating up in the air and you're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm starting to..." And then you go, "No, no, no, don't, don't start going down, like I don't wanna go down anymore."

   6. OMOllie Marchon56:28

      (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson56:28

      And, um, it's, uh, I, I'm noticing it with myself, like injuries come more quickly, recovery comes more slowly, weights and progress, uh, body fat's harder to lose-

   8. OMOllie Marchon56:39

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson56:39

      ... muscle's harder to build. I'm like, "Okay, I need to accept the fact that at this age, this is the direction that I'm going in. And the only way that I can get around this is with sheer force of will and, and effort. It's gonna take me more effort to achieve fewer results than it would have done 10 years ago." And that's a fucking tough pill to swallow.

   10. OMOllie Marchon57:05

       100%. Uh, I was actually, a couple of weeks ago, some of the people around me, I actually mentioned this to them. We were sit on, we sat on Bournemouth Beach, um, after the competition. It was a Sunday, it was, uh, the sun was shining, it was incredible. But for about 15 seconds, I was just having the worst thoughts in my head about my age. You know, the day after, the day after the competition, I had had a few too many drinks the night before, so I was a bit hungover. And I was just kinda reflecting, the people around me were, you know, some of them are my age, but a lot of them were a lot, a lot younger. And I just had some really morbid feelings about just like, "Shit, I'm at this age now that my prime's gone. I'm not gonna be that person again," and all these kind of things. And (laughs) I wouldn't, I wouldn't change anything over the last five, six years at all, but like I say, one thing I've not really focused on is, uh, uh, uh, it was a deliberate change, like I didn't wanna focus on myself as the athlete. I just wanna try and get back to, like you said, I, I'm happy for marginal returns so long as I can go, "Okay, for that period, I've given it as much as I could."

   11. CWChris Williamson58:03

       Everything.

   12. OMOllie Marchon58:03

       With... Yeah, ev- every- everything within reason of, of all the other hats that I'm trying to wear. Um, whereas I feel as though there's been a large period, per- portion of time where I have just been ticking boxes. And those boxes have served, you know, I've ticked those boxes and I've been able to do other a- do things, some, some great profound things in other areas of my life to all- to afford me the opportunity to go, "Do you know what? For the next year, here's the time and effort that I'm gonna put towards just like seeing what sort of athlete I can be at 34 years old, you know, what challenges can I go and do? What weights will I be able to lift, the numbers and that kind of thing?" Um, because I've just not for the last, like say, for the last four or five years, the kilos on the bar or the times hit and that kind of thing is just not even been, you know, an interest of mine, and that's quite weird. I don't... L- I'm, I'm ready to just give that one m- one more go.

   13. CWChris Williamson58:47

       Fucking interesting man. Really, really is like quite a profound thing to be thinking about. Uh, uh, you know, I don't know sort of what the equivalent is for girls if they've attached their sense of self-worth to something. But if you're a guy that spent a lot of time in the gym throughout his 20s and then starts to notice stuff happen, like your metabolism is slowing down, so when I actually... uh, it does, I can't outwork a bad diet anymore, which I used to be able to do.

   14. OMOllie Marchon59:11

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson59:12

       Like I genuinely can't outwork a bad diet, and it takes a little bit longer to rehabilitate stuff, and uh, to... The hangovers are beyond fucking o- otherworldly. They, they come hard and fast when you're not prepared for them.

   16. OMOllie Marchon59:28

       Man, unfortunately, I don't really, 'cause I don't drink l- that often, I don't really have to experience hangover as much, but I mean, the hangover on Sunday was horrific. But you, you brought, you, you brought up the injuries. I mean, yeah, just like niggles and injuries, and even just getting myself up for training. Like some days I'd have mild anxiety about the fact I had to train, whereas before I was just like, "Fuck, I wanna train all day, every day."

   17. CWChris Williamson59:48

       Yeah.

   18. OMOllie Marchon59:48

       Um, and there's a couple of young lads that kinda work, (laughs) work for Marchon that, like I s- they, they can do back to back sessions from 6:00 AM through to midday like it's nothing. Run upstairs, have a quick, you know, bit of porridge or, or coffee and then they're throwing ridiculous weights that I've never even touched above their, you know, above their head, and I'm like, "Where... Fuck," like-

   19. CWChris Williamson1:00:06

       (laughs)

   20. OMOllie Marchon1:00:07

       ... I'm ne- I'm never gonna get that back, but I need to get so- I just need to get some sort of a com-

   21. CWChris Williamson1:00:11

       Chase them down.

   22. OMOllie Marchon1:00:11

       ... some sort of com- Yeah, just chase it down a little bit. I think just... I've c- I've called it One Last Dance. We'll see how far I get with it. I, I still will never be at the numbers that they're gonna hit, but I will-

   23. CWChris Williamson1:00:21

       I had a-

   24. OMOllie Marchon1:00:21

       ... uh, I'll give it the best shot.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:00:22

       ... I had a conversation with Navy SEAL, ex-Navy SEAL, he actually created the, the Mind Gym for SEAL Team 6, which was the, the mindset side of the Navy SEALS. And, um, he was talking about the fact that, that the oldest age... fuck, this hurts so bad. He said that the oldest age that you could join the SEALs at was 28.

   26. OMOllie Marchon1:00:44

       Jeez.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:00:44

       And I tried to, I tried to sort of defend the older... I was like, "Uh, 28 seems a bit sort of young." He's like, "Well, yeah, just physically, the guys over 28, they're not really there. Like if you're in at 28, you can stay on. But if you don't..." And he told me this story about s- some guy who was climbing up one of those, I don't know what, the, uh, grapple rope type things, you know, the, the rope nets, climbing up-

   28. OMOllie Marchon1:01:05

       Cargo net type things.

   29. CWChris Williamson1:01:06

       Cargo net, yeah. Um, climbing up, apparently it's like 25, 30 foot off the ground on sand, on the beach, running with a pack. (laughs) And this kid was 18 or 19 years old, climbed all the way up to the top, got one foot down and just fell 25 feet.... to belly flop onto the sand with a pack on his back, with, like, heavy shit and a bergn. Apparently, he just stood up, brushed it off him, and ran. It's like, dude, if you're in your 30s and that happens to you, you're snapped in half. This guy that was 18 bounced off the floor like a fucking rubber ball and just... and set off again. You go, "Yeah. Yeah, okay. Maybe."

   30. OMOllie Marchon1:01:42

       I remember, man, I remember in the, in the rugby days, like, in my early 20s, even mid-20s, like, the, the boys who were considered the old boys at, like, 32, 33, there was a couple of 35-year-olds, maybe a 36. They've got kids, they're married. And I was thinking, like, "Fuck, this is a short career if, like, I'm only, you know, a few y- years away from that. Like, why do th- why do they talk and act like that like they're old?" And now I'm there, and I'm like, going back to rugby would, like... Oh, I couldn't even fathom trying to-

Episode duration: 1:06:23