Inside Tracker | The Largest Database Of Healthy People In The World

1. 0:00 – 0:30

   Blood draw in California: starting the InsideTracker experiment

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Morning from beautiful California. I am on my way to Quest Diagnostics to get my blood drawn. That'll then get sent off to InsideTracker, and they'll give me my results when I get out there. Not fantastic with needles, but I'll get through it for today. (instrumental music) That's my appointment just finished there. Um, they don't allow you to actually take any footage while you're inside for the safety and security, I dunno, something American. The nurse said that it wasn't a lot of blood, but it felt like

2. 0:30 – 1:41

   Travel to Boston + the realities of filming and airport security

   1. CWChris Williamson0:30

      a lot of blood to me. It was like ten vials, ten of those vials. So time to wait and see on what the results say. Find out in Boston next week. (instrumental music) Here's a life hack for you. If you want to make your journey through the metal detectors at an airport an awful lot longer, pack a USB condenser mic, which is essentially a huge dildo-sized, dildo-shaped magnet that comes up all colors of the rainbow when you put it through a scanner, every single time. "Hello, sir, what is this?" "It's a microphone, uh, I do podcasts and things." "Okay, we're gonna have to check it for Schedule 1 drugs and detonatable substances," and whatever else there is. But I'm through. Boston, I'm coming for you. (instrumental music) Jonathan and Carrie from InsideTracker, how are you today?

   2. CKCarrie Kolb1:34

      Good. Thanks for having us.

   3. JLJonathan Levitt1:35

      Good, thanks for having us.

   4. CKCarrie Kolb1:36

      Or thanks for being here. (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson1:37

      Thank you for having me.

   6. CKCarrie Kolb1:38

      Yeah. (laughs)

   7. JLJonathan Levitt1:39

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson1:39

      Do you know what I mean? Thank you for having me.

   9. JLJonathan Levitt1:40

      Thanks for coming.

   10. CKCarrie Kolb1:41

       (laughs)

3. 1:41 – 2:24

   What InsideTracker is: biomarkers, optimization zones, and personalized recommendations

   1. CWChris Williamson1:41

      Uh, it's awesome. So, um, can you explain to the listeners at home who you guys are and what InsideTracker is and what it does?

   2. CKCarrie Kolb1:49

      Sure. Um, so we work for InsideTracker. I handle mostly the CrossFit division and Jonathan handles endurance, but we also, um, are helping people out with their overall health or healthy aging. Um, and what InsideTracker really does is we look at, uh, biomarkers in your blood that are scientifically tied to performance, overall health, and longevity, and we create personalized recommendations for foods, supplements, and lifestyle changes, um, to help you get those biomarkers into optimized zones if they're not already in there.

4. 2:24 – 4:05

   Why quantified health is exploding: longevity, marginal gains, and better data than wearables alone

   1. CWChris Williamson2:24

      Yeah, it's a serious, uh, a serious subject, isn't it? I've just come straight from Mr. David Sinclair's office at the, uh, Harvard Medical School, and it seems like longevity and, um, this more analytical assessment... I mean, I'm wearing a WHOOP band, right? Like, I've got always-on heart rate tracking, I've... Is it a trend that you can see at the moment with fitness, that people are starting to take this sort of stuff more seriously?

   2. JLJonathan Levitt2:50

      Definitely, and they're starting to care. So I've been at the company for four and a half years now, and when I started, it was all about, um, you know, we, we needed to help explain why this is something you should care about. And now it's at a point where everybody knows what it is. We have to show that we're better, and that our, our platform is more advanced, more analytical, and, and more personalized than, than anything else out there.

   3. CWChris Williamson3:13

      So the dream's already been sold?

   4. JLJonathan Levitt3:14

      Yes. (laughs)

   5. CKCarrie Kolb3:15

      (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson3:16

      Why do you think that's the case? Why are people more bothered now? Are they just looking for marginal gains or is it the just natural movement along with as the technology sort of continues? What do you think it is?

   7. JLJonathan Levitt3:24

      Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think there's more coming out about how you can improve longevity, what you can do to be better about yourself. Uh, there's a large group of people that are either getting older or they're seeing their parents get older, probably more likely, at least here in the States with, with Baby Boomers. And so, and so people are, are questioning their own longevity and, and looking at, like, "What can I do so that I don't get like that?" Or, "What can I do so that I can be with my kids," or, you know, something like that, um, as, as they get older and, and so people are looking for a way to, uh, make that actionable.

5. 4:05 – 7:45

   Chris’s results: glucose, low free testosterone, and the ‘beans + fiber’ wake-up call

   1. CWChris Williamson4:05

      So I went through the process, as the viewers will be seeing throughout this episode. I went to Quest Diagnostics in Redlands in California.

   2. JLJonathan Levitt4:13

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson4:13

      Uh, and out the other side of that I, uh, I got my blood drawn. Uh, they got sent off to your lab and then within a few days I had a bunch of data that I waited for you to, uh, interpret-

   4. CKCarrie Kolb4:25

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson4:26

      ... on, on my behalf because I didn't, I didn't quite understand what everything was. Um, but it, it does seem mad to me that out of a... It was quite a lot of blood. It was like ten vials.

   6. CKCarrie Kolb4:35

      (laughs)

   7. CWChris Williamson4:35

      Well, not that much.

   8. CKCarrie Kolb4:36

      I mean, it was six.

   9. CWChris Williamson4:37

      Yeah.

   10. CKCarrie Kolb4:37

       Felt like ten. (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson4:38

       Felt like, felt like pints.

   12. JLJonathan Levitt4:39

       (laughs) It feels like, yeah. (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson4:40

       Felt like pints and pints but it wasn't. Um, it is... It seems so mad that you guys are able to, um, decipher so much about my diet, my training, my lifestyle, my cortisol levels, my free testosterone, just from a couple of vials of blood that I had drawn on the opposite side of the country, like, a week ago. It's a mad, a mad concept.

   14. JLJonathan Levitt5:07

       It's mad, but if you think about it, people are looking for guidance and what's the most reliable source of data? It's not, "How are you feeling today?" It's not, um, you know, it's, it's not these, these... I, I, I have a Garmin and it tracks my sleep quality and, uh, some nights it says I sleep for three hours and some nights it says I'm, I'm in bed at 7:00, but I'm, I'm not. Um, and, and people are looking for analytics and people are familiar with, you know, going to your doctor to get glucose and cholesterol, but it stops there, and there's so much more beyond just are you sick today or are you, you know... Coming from the performance side of things, who cares who, how you compare to 300 million Americans or, or a human in general? It's, it's all about how do you compare to yourself for someone that's training like you're training, for someone that's eating like you're eating?... and then, you know, you might be, you might need to be here, or you might need to be here, and you're currently here. And so it's that, you know, 1%, 5%, 10%, whatever it is-

   15. CWChris Williamson6:09

       Mm-hmm.

   16. JLJonathan Levitt6:10

       ... that there's, there's benefit to, to getting there.

   17. CWChris Williamson6:14

       You are totally right that it seems so primitive now when I think about the fact that all of us are training in some form, especially if it's for performance-

   18. JLJonathan Levitt6:24

       Right.

   19. CWChris Williamson6:25

       ... you are looking to dial in marginal gains. If you read, uh, Ben Bergeron's book, Chasing Excellence, at the bottom he's got character and then above that he's got process-

   20. JLJonathan Levitt6:34

       Right.

   21. CWChris Williamson6:34

       ... which is making the most of minutes.

   22. JLJonathan Levitt6:36

       Right.

   23. CWChris Williamson6:37

       That is, in its very essence, the highest resolution, highest fidelity look at marginal gains-

   24. JLJonathan Levitt6:43

       Right.

   25. CWChris Williamson6:43

       ... that you can. And it does seem super, like pre-historic to not be tracking sleep quality-

   26. JLJonathan Levitt6:51

       Right.

   27. CWChris Williamson6:51

       ... with something better than, "Oh, I think I went to bed at 10:00 last night."

   28. JLJonathan Levitt6:55

       Right.

   29. CWChris Williamson6:56

       And the same thing, it would appear now, with guys like yourself, is being rolled forward for blood work. I was talking to David and, uh, he said he's got all of his data with you guys since like 2011.

   30. JLJonathan Levitt7:08

       Yep.
6. 7:45 – 12:39

   What InsideTracker sees in elite athletes: CrossFit vs. endurance trends

   1. CWChris Williamson7:45

      (inhales deeply) So, can you talk to the listeners about some of the athletes that you guys have worked with?

   2. CKCarrie Kolb7:53

      Yeah. I mean, we work with, I mean, all types of athletes from CrossFitters like myself who are just, you know, going to stay healthy, to the top tier CrossFit athletes that are going to the games. Um, all-

   3. CWChris Williamson8:06

      Are there any household names that people might know?

   4. CKCarrie Kolb8:08

      Yeah, we've tested... Um, Katrin, uh, is a big supporter of ours, Katrin Davidsdottir.

   5. CWChris Williamson8:14

      Mm-hmm.

   6. CKCarrie Kolb8:14

      Uh, she works with Ben Bergeron who's talked about InsideTracker before. Um, Cole Sager, uh, Scott Panchik who's going to the games for the ninth time now. Um, we've worked with, uh, Tia, we've worked with all of the CrossFit Mayhem team, um, recently. So, a lot of household names that you-

   7. CWChris Williamson8:34

      Yes.

   8. CKCarrie Kolb8:34

      ... probably know. Rich Froning. Um, yeah, they've done InsideTracker and have found, you know, a lot of value in it, so...

   9. CWChris Williamson8:41

      What do you find when you look at these athletes? Is there... Obviously we don't need to go into specific details and find out that Katrin's actually got slightly higher blood glucose.

   10. JLJonathan Levitt8:49

       (laughs)

   11. CKCarrie Kolb8:49

       We-

   12. CWChris Williamson8:50

       Um, but-

   13. CKCarrie Kolb8:50

       We see a lot of, um, trends with, with especially high level CrossFit athletes where their CK is usually a little bit higher which just means-

   14. CWChris Williamson8:58

       What's a CK?

   15. CKCarrie Kolb8:59

       It's just, uh, um, creatine kinase which is a marker of over-training.

   16. CWChris Williamson9:02

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CKCarrie Kolb9:02

       So you would expect to see, you know, um, that marker be a little bit high based on how often they're training, how many hours they're putting in per day. Um, we also have seen glucose in CrossFitters be a little bit up, uh, on the higher end which is something that you noticed in your-

   18. CWChris Williamson9:19

       Yes.

   19. CKCarrie Kolb9:20

       Um, and it's just because, um, for whatever reason, they're not eating enough soluble fiber which is exactly what I think you were told this morning-

   20. CWChris Williamson9:27

       Yes.

   21. CKCarrie Kolb9:27

       ... on your consult?

   22. CWChris Williamson9:28

       Yeah. So I, I had, uh, yourself and one of your colleagues run me through my results earlier on today. Um, I, I honestly thought that I wouldn't be, um, I would be further out than I was.

   23. CKCarrie Kolb9:42

       Mm-hmm.

   24. CWChris Williamson9:42

       Um, I was expecting after a decade and a half of club promotion and undersleeping and some periods of pretty significant over-training as well, I was expecting my inner age to come back at like 45-

   25. CKCarrie Kolb9:57

       (laughs)

   26. CWChris Williamson9:57

       ... and for there just to be like every sound and f- alarm going off inside of InsideTracker, like the, the air raid siren goes off-

   27. JLJonathan Levitt10:05

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson10:05

       ... and then the red light comes on.

   29. JLJonathan Levitt10:05

       "Somebody pick up this guy and make sure he's not dead." (laughs)

   30. CWChris Williamson10:07

       Yeah. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, um, but it turns out that it wasn't that bad and that, um, glucose was a little bit out, free testosterone was low-
7. 12:39 – 14:46

   Undereating shows up in blood: cortisol, LDL, testosterone shifts—removing guesswork

   1. CWChris Williamson12:39

      How does, um, undereating manifest in the blood work?

   2. JLJonathan Levitt12:43

      So for me it was a combination of high cortisol, uh, LDL was unoptimized, and, um, the free testosterone had been ha- had gone down a little bit given an increase in training. So I, I, you know, test quarterly, and I was able to see as my training ramped up, those things all went the wrong way. And so we went through and also this all involved fiber. Um, and so this was January of 2018 and I- I'm doing like 20% more mileage than I've ever done, eating more, and getting more results. And it, I hadn't been injured, knock on wood. But, um, it, it was a no-brainer. Like, hey, this is something that's a problem, it's very clearly identified in the blood work, and now it's having, you know, action reaction.

   3. CWChris Williamson13:31

      It's taking a lot of guess work out, isn't it?

   4. JLJonathan Levitt13:33

      Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, you remove the, the, um, you know, where do I focus? What supplements do I need?

   5. CKCarrie Kolb13:41

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJonathan Levitt13:41

      I know what I need, Carrie knows what she needs and you know what you need.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:44

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJonathan Levitt13:45

      And there's probably some overlap in that, but if, if I were to take what Carrie needed or I were to take what you needed-

   9. CWChris Williamson13:51

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JLJonathan Levitt13:52

       ... that wouldn't, that's not what we need. So it's-

   11. CWChris Williamson13:55

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLJonathan Levitt13:55

       It's understanding your personalized supplement routine that-

   13. CWChris Williamson13:58

       Yes.

   14. JLJonathan Levitt13:58

       ... that something, something as simple as that.

   15. CWChris Williamson13:59

       Yes.

   16. CKCarrie Kolb13:59

       Or also like what you need to eat. And for, I was not told that I was undereating, just FYI-

   17. CWChris Williamson14:05

       (laughs)

   18. CKCarrie Kolb14:05

       ... um, after I got my consult.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:07

       (laughs)

   20. CKCarrie Kolb14:08

       But if you're doing something where you're using templates or you're macro counting and you, um, wanna try to meet those numbers but you wanna try to meet them with the right foods-

   21. CWChris Williamson14:18

       Mm-hmm.

   22. CKCarrie Kolb14:19

       ... now you have something telling you exactly what your body needs. So that was really helpful for me to know. Um, like for you, when you were told that you needed to eat a lot of beans, it was helpful for me to know-

   23. CWChris Williamson14:30

       20 different types of beans that I'm eating.

   24. CKCarrie Kolb14:32

       (laughs)

   25. JLJonathan Levitt14:32

       Also, it validates my, um, my sushi habit.

   26. CWChris Williamson14:35

       Okay.

   27. JLJonathan Levitt14:36

       Yeah.

   28. CWChris Williamson14:36

       Because what, what-

   29. JLJonathan Levitt14:37

       I eat fish and, and shellfish.

   30. CWChris Williamson14:39

       Okay.
8. 14:46 – 19:06

   From data to action: avoiding ‘tracking for tracking’s sake’ and designing for compliance

   1. CWChris Williamson14:46

      ... you're like, sweet. Um, one thing that I thought was super interesting when I was looking at the recommendations, I don't, I don't know what I was expecting, um, the recommendations to be. I think I maybe thought there would be something crazy complex out the other side of it, um, but having spoken to, uh, one of your colleagues, what I discovered was that between sleep, training, diet, and supplementation, those are the only inputs that we need to be looking at to manipulate everything that's going on with regards to our blood work.

   2. JLJonathan Levitt15:21

      Right.

   3. CWChris Williamson15:22

      I don't know what I thought I was gonna expect to see.

   4. JLJonathan Levitt15:25

      Like-

   5. CWChris Williamson15:25

      It was, it was som- I don't know, I don't know what I was expecting.

   6. JLJonathan Levitt15:28

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson15:28

      Like just something crazy complex that was totally out of the realm of-

   8. JLJonathan Levitt15:32

      Right.

   9. CWChris Williamson15:32

      ... oh, well, y- your iron's out so you need to do this ridiculous thing.

   10. CKCarrie Kolb15:36

       Yeah.

   11. CWChris Williamson15:36

       But it's not. It's d- everything's within your control.

   12. JLJonathan Levitt15:39

       Yeah, so adoption is, it, like, the whole program is worthless if you can't take the data and make meaning of it. So there, there's a lot of, you look at pro sports, there's a lot of, of meaningless tracking that's going on. And, and-

   13. CWChris Williamson15:52

       What, what like?

   14. JLJonathan Levitt15:54

       People are, people are tracking GPS, people are tracking sleep, people are tracking power, people are tracking all these things that, that pro athletes are having tracked, but it's just sitting in a, in a portfolio somewhere.

   15. CWChris Williamson16:07

       Excel sheets or something, yeah.

   16. JLJonathan Levitt16:07

       Yeah, exactly. And, and I was at the National Strength and Conditioning Association conference a couple years ago and, and one of the presenters was basically saying, "Stop tracking just to tell your boss you're tracking this."

   17. CWChris Williamson16:20

       (laughs)

   18. JLJonathan Levitt16:21

       It's a waste of your athlete's time and it's a waste of your time if you're not doing anything with it. And, and so our, our goal is to, to make everything that we ask of you and everything that we take from you, literally your blood-

   19. CWChris Williamson16:36

       Mm-hmm.

   20. JLJonathan Levitt16:36

       ... meaningful. And so you may have noticed that there are a lot of questions on the registration process.

   21. CWChris Williamson16:41

       Yes.

   22. JLJonathan Levitt16:41

       We don't ask anything that we don't use anywhere, none of it's just for fun.

   23. CWChris Williamson16:45

       Mm-hmm.

   24. JLJonathan Levitt16:45

       Um, none of it's for statistical-

   25. CWChris Williamson16:48

       Yeah.

   26. JLJonathan Levitt16:48

       ... purposes on our end.

   27. CWChris Williamson16:50

       Yeah.

   28. JLJonathan Levitt16:50

       Everything that we ask on that registration process is used in a recommendation somewhere.

   29. CWChris Williamson16:55

       Mm-hmm. One of the things that the, uh, dietician that I was speaking to earlier on mentioned was that if she had the choice, she would've, uh, actually had like a, a 120, uh, question questionnaire. Apparently there's 16 major food groups-

   30. JLJonathan Levitt17:11

       Yep.
9. 19:06 – 21:57

   Who it’s really for: everyday health, prevention, and why they don’t do food sensitivity testing

   1. CWChris Williamson19:06

      Absolutely. Yeah, you are right. Um, so for the normal, uh, everyday person, we've spoken about athletes, for someone who's just looking to exist through life feeling better-

   2. JLJonathan Levitt19:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson19:18

      ... um, is blood work going to identify why they may have particular, uh, uh, allergies to foods or particular deficiencies that could lead to more, um, uh, more serious problems down the line? Is it an early warning system for some people or are there any other things to do with longevity that you guys really focus on?

   4. JLJonathan Levitt19:39

      So, the company was started for that first point. It wasn't to help elite athletes, you know, squeeze out an extra 1%. Um, our founder, Gil Blander had a death in the family when he was a little kid, and he said, "I wanna live forever." And so, this is his project of, you know, how does, how does Gil live longer, live better?

   5. CWChris Williamson19:56

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JLJonathan Levitt19:56

      And he went the route of academia and he said, "You know, I can publish some papers that some scientists will see, or I can start a company and impact, you know, tens of millions or hundreds of millions of people-"

   7. CWChris Williamson20:08

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JLJonathan Levitt20:08

      "... billions of people." Um, and so, he, he went with option number two.

   9. CWChris Williamson20:14

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JLJonathan Levitt20:15

       And... Or he went with option number one at first, and then, you know, transitioned over option number two. And, and so the initial mission of the company was, like I said, was not to help elite athletes, but rather help anyone have more energy or better sleep or whatever. Um, athletes need that performance, whereas most people want to feel better. But the program works the same way for, for those two people. It wor- it works, it uses scientific studies to provide recommendations to help achieve goals, specific goals that, that are relevant to you.

   11. CWChris Williamson20:47

       Even if the goal is just to feel more calm or-

   12. JLJonathan Levitt20:50

       Yep.

   13. CWChris Williamson20:50

       ... lose some weight, or-

   14. JLJonathan Levitt20:51

       Exactly. And then the food sensitivity question is one we get asked a lot. Um, at this time, we aren't confident enough in the science and validity behind food sensitivity testing, so we don't include it. It's incredibly expensive and doesn't provide much utility on our end. So instead of, you know, just trying to make a few more bucks, uh, providing a service that isn't as good of a quality, we just don't do it.

   15. CWChris Williamson21:19

       I think, um, uh, definitely based on what I've seen of what you guys have given me as a feedback, remembering that you don't know what I eat typically, the things that were highlighted by deficiencies in my profile seem to tie in very closely-

   16. JLJonathan Levitt21:34

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson21:35

       ... with what I know that I don't eat.

   18. JLJonathan Levitt21:36

       Right.

   19. CWChris Williamson21:37

       So this-

   20. JLJonathan Levitt21:37

       Like beans and oatmeal probably, right?

   21. CWChris Williamson21:39

       Beans, beans and oatmeal. I... Man, I just need to eat-

   22. JLJonathan Levitt21:41

       (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson21:41

       I do just need to eat more beans, apparently.

   24. CKCarrie Kolb21:43

       (laughs)

   25. CWChris Williamson21:43

       Um...

   26. JLJonathan Levitt21:44

       We had an athlete that wrote a, a blog about, you know, beans are, are, uh, uh... It was a hilarious title and I'm, I'm blanking on-

   27. CWChris Williamson21:52

       Mm-hmm.

   28. JLJonathan Levitt21:52

       ... on what it was.

   29. CWChris Williamson21:53

       Yeah.

   30. JLJonathan Levitt21:54

       But basically, beans are, are her end-all, be-all solution.

10. 21:57 – 26:32

    The future: combining blood + DNA + wearables (and eventually microbiome) for deeper personalization

    1. CWChris Williamson21:57

       So, what do you think moving forward are going to be the, um... How would we say? What's the future of this industry look like with regards to blood work and stuff like that? Is it the sort of thing that's going to become adopted by more people, or is it still gonna remain for elite athletes? Uh, what's the trends suggesting at the moment, do you think?

    2. CKCarrie Kolb22:15

       Um, I mean, I think there's so many ways that obviously you can track different things, um, about yourself. Now there's, we can use the DNA plus blood, um, that we offer, which if you have your DNA sequenced, um, and you also have your blood work done through us (laughs) , we can-

    3. CWChris Williamson22:32

       I think I just splashed myself in the face with that glass of water.

    4. CKCarrie Kolb22:35

       ... we can use both of those, um, pieces of information to give you an even more detailed look at not only what's going on inside your body right now-

    5. CWChris Williamson22:42

       Mm-hmm.

    6. CKCarrie Kolb22:42

       ... but what you are, um, what you are predisposed to because of, um, what your DNA is saying.

    7. CWChris Williamson22:48

       Particular genetic conditions-

    8. CKCarrie Kolb22:50

       Right.

    9. CWChris Williamson22:50

       ... and stuff like that. Uh, David was discussing his, uh, Ashkenazi Jew genes that he's got.

    10. CKCarrie Kolb22:58

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CWChris Williamson22:59

        And he was just like lambasting them, saying how it means that he's got a predisposition to be fat and he's-

    12. JLJonathan Levitt23:05

        Can't do dairy.

    13. CWChris Williamson23:06

        He's, he's got, he's shite with dairy. He's not very good with, I think, like wheat or something else as well. And, um, yeah, I mean, all of the things... We are the sum of our nature and our nurture, right? And if the nurture and the environment is able to be represented in the blood work that you guys do now, and that the nature is able to be represented in your genes-

    14. CKCarrie Kolb23:29

        Mm-hmm.

    15. CWChris Williamson23:29

        ... you do have a pretty comprehensive picture of exactly what's going on inside of you. I wonder, moving forward, whether or not things like this and, and more consistent testing... 'Cause you guys suggest to test every three months, right? Is that about right?

    16. JLJonathan Levitt23:43

        Sort of like the gold standard, yeah.

    17. CWChris Williamson23:45

        Mm-hmm. And that's to see, do something, get recommendations, make changes, reassess.

    18. JLJonathan Levitt23:50

        Right. And so, we understand that that's not, that's not gonna work for everyone with their budget or with, you know, getting into a lab, whatnot. So, we're looking to add in more inputs that are sort of lower friction points.

    19. CWChris Williamson24:03

        Mm-hmm.

    20. JLJonathan Levitt24:03

        So, adding in Fitbit, adding in Garmin, adding in this physiological data so that you can say, "Okay, my goal is to boost sleep quality."... I've improved my magnesium or I've improved my vitamin D and I see that, uh, I see a related improvement in sleep quality.

    21. CWChris Williamson24:21

        Yes.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt24:21

        Or, my sleep quality is poor, let's look at diet about, you know, a- around how can we, how can we manipulate diet knowing what we already know about you-

    23. CWChris Williamson24:31

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JLJonathan Levitt24:31

        ... to make a recommendation around improving sleep quality. So the, the goal is, and then, you know, adding things like microbiome or things, things as the science continues to support it-

    25. CWChris Williamson24:42

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JLJonathan Levitt24:42

        ... what are all of the inputs that we can just mash into the, you know, InsideTracker approach of taking science, distilling it into recommendations, and, and helping you improve? That's, that's the, our process. And the more we can load into the, into the top here-

    27. CWChris Williamson25:00

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JLJonathan Levitt25:01

        ... the, the better and more personalized the recommendations and, and improvements can be.

    29. CWChris Williamson25:05

        So you guys are working, I'm gonna guess, m- majority on the front end, dealing with athletes-

    30. JLJonathan Levitt25:10

        Yep.
11. 26:32 – 29:21

    How InsideTracker turns science into recommendations: rules, validation, and star ratings

    1. CWChris Williamson26:32

       Um, yeah. So, uh, do you guys understand or can you explain a little bit about the process of what happens when science comes in? Because it sounds like, uh, from the consultation I had earlier and from speaking to you guys here, until you're absolutely dead on that the science is going to back up something, you're not actually gonna bother using it.

    2. JLJonathan Levitt26:52

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson26:53

       Um, so what's the process of, uh, I guess, absorbing the science, uh, and then delivering it to the system? Is it the, the super, the super nerds?

    4. JLJonathan Levitt27:04

       Yeah. We, so, we have a team of thousands of interns that are ty- typing away on the computer.

    5. CWChris Williamson27:08

       Yep.

    6. JLJonathan Levitt27:08

       You know, it's, you know, a dozen or so.

    7. CWChris Williamson27:09

       Yeah.

    8. JLJonathan Levitt27:10

       Um, constantly researching new studies and constantly, um, looking, looking at things that are, um, the biggest priority. Like, for, for the endurance athletes, it's the iron group. How do we make the iron recommendations better?

    9. CWChris Williamson27:25

       Mm-hmm.

    10. JLJonathan Levitt27:25

        Or how do we, we just added hemoglobin A1C, how do we lump glucose with hemoglobin A1C and make recommendations? So they're either looking for new studies or they're looking for specific topics and they find something, they talk about it in their, in their science meeting.

    11. CKCarrie Kolb27:41

        (laughs)

    12. JLJonathan Levitt27:41

        It's a... (laughs)

    13. CWChris Williamson27:42

        In that super nerd meeting.

    14. JLJonathan Levitt27:44

        (laughs) And the way it works is it's, it's, uh, it's an algorithm. So it's a big if then statement. So if-

    15. CWChris Williamson27:52

        Yes.

    16. JLJonathan Levitt27:52

        ... this then that. So there are a whole bunch of rules in the system.

    17. CWChris Williamson27:55

        Mm-hmm.

    18. JLJonathan Levitt27:55

        And the rules are written by the scientists, but it can't just be scientist one saying, "Hey, here's something cool. Load it in."

    19. CWChris Williamson28:03

        Yeah.

    20. JLJonathan Levitt28:03

        It's scientist one pre- uh, proposes a rule-

    21. CWChris Williamson28:07

        Yeah.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt28:07

        ... it has to be validated by a second person-

    23. CWChris Williamson28:10

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JLJonathan Levitt28:10

        ... and then it can be added into the platform.

    25. CWChris Williamson28:11

        So you have, like, an internal peer review system almost.

    26. JLJonathan Levitt28:14

        Yep, of peer-reviewed studies.

    27. CWChris Williamson28:15

        Yes.

    28. JLJonathan Levitt28:16

        Um, so they're, they're super peer-

    29. CWChris Williamson28:18

        It's the 80/20 of the 80/20.

    30. JLJonathan Levitt28:19

        Yeah. Exactly. So we're getting the best of the best from the best. Um, and then there's an algorithm that goes into ranking the recommendations. So we have recommendations from one to five stars that are, uh, that, that system is, is based on the recency of the study, the type of the study, the number of people in the study-
12. 29:21 – 38:58

    High-leverage basics: sleep, glucose control, vitamin D, nuts/oatmeal, and iron for women

    1. CWChris Williamson29:21

       So let's say that, um, someone who's at home might be feeling like they're just a little bit out. Do you see, we discussed typical trends amongst, uh, high-performing athletes. Is there anything that you think or that you see consistently that you think people should consider doing immediately, even before they consider getting their blood work done? Uh, there's some things, someone's like, "Oh, my energy levels are a little bit low," or, "My mood appears to be a little bit out," or, "My training's a little bit out." Are there some, uh, some kind of very common, uh, issues that you tend to come up against that you could recommend for people to maybe try do this first, then try do that first?

    2. CKCarrie Kolb29:55

       I mean, I would say the easiest one and probably the most important that I can think of is just sleep. A lot of people who come to us, their cortisol is way off and, and it's because they're not getting enough sleep. Um, so our biggest recommendations are just cut the screen time, shut your phone off a half hour before, um, you actually go to sleep so that when you are sleeping, it's eight quality hours and not, you know-... off and on, and you're-

    3. CWChris Williamson30:23

       Yeah.

    4. CKCarrie Kolb30:23

       ... not in a good rhythm. So, I would say that that's a big one, um, that we do see a lot of and then just something easy that you can implement into your daily life.

    5. CWChris Williamson30:31

       Everyone's already doing it, right? Um, what else? Is there anything else that you see t- that tends to be, um, reflected in terms of diet? Is anyone eating or eating too much of something or not eating enough of stuff?

    6. JLJonathan Levitt30:41

       Yeah. So we see 82% of Americans with elevated glucose and the best-

    7. CWChris Williamson30:46

       82%?

    8. JLJonathan Levitt30:47

       82%. So for the majority of people, adding oatmeal into their diet is the best possible thing that they can do.

    9. CWChris Williamson30:54

       Really?

    10. JLJonathan Levitt30:56

        We-

    11. CWChris Williamson30:56

        For elevated glucose, oatmeal?

    12. JLJonathan Levitt30:58

        Oatmeal. We looked at, we published a paper on, uh, the impact of algorithm based recommendations, so the personalized nutrition model that we follow. And we were able to look at, uh, recommendations, interventions, and improvement. And so we could see that, that some things worked better than others in terms of compliance. Like another one we found was that the only thing that will improve low vitamin... Low enough vitamin D levels is taking a vitamin D supplement, which-

    13. CWChris Williamson31:30

        Right.

    14. JLJonathan Levitt31:30

        ... sounds like it makes sense, but-

    15. CWChris Williamson31:31

        Yeah.

    16. JLJonathan Levitt31:32

        ... oh, stand outside for 20 minutes a day. Didn't do it, didn't work.

    17. CWChris Williamson31:35

        Yeah.

    18. JLJonathan Levitt31:35

        Eat more fatty fish, didn't work.

    19. CWChris Williamson31:37

        Okay.

    20. JLJonathan Levitt31:37

        Eat more mushrooms, didn't work. So, um, so yeah, back to the glucose thing. So if you do nothing else, eat more oatmeal. We looked at, um, what are some of the best interventions across the board for men based on biomarkers.

    21. CWChris Williamson31:55

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt31:55

        Um, eating nuts on a daily basis is-

    23. CWChris Williamson31:58

        Any specific c- type of nuts?

    24. JLJonathan Levitt32:00

        Whatever, whatever y'all, you know, whatever you want really.

    25. CWChris Williamson32:03

        Yeah.

    26. JLJonathan Levitt32:03

        Almonds, walnuts, et cetera.

    27. CWChris Williamson32:06

        Walnuts.

    28. JLJonathan Levitt32:06

        Um, that improves glucose, lipids, uh, testosterone, liver enzyme, inflammation, um, and most of those metrics make up our InnerAge score as well, uh, with glucose having the highest weight. So if you're looking at one specific food that can address the, the bulk of the metrics that impact male longevity the most-

    29. CWChris Williamson32:33

        Yeah.

    30. JLJonathan Levitt32:34

        ... nuts.
13. 38:58 – 40:07

    InnerAge explained: the five biomarkers used and why glucose is heavily weighted

    1. CWChris Williamson38:58

       You guys give out an inner age figure. What's that mean? What is inner age?

    2. CKCarrie Kolb39:03

       So inner age is the age that your body is on the inside versus what the number says on your driver's license. So it's your-

    3. JLJonathan Levitt39:11

       I like that.

    4. CKCarrie Kolb39:12

       Y- you've never heard that one before?

    5. JLJonathan Levitt39:13

       No, that's good.

    6. CWChris Williamson39:14

       (laughs)

    7. JLJonathan Levitt39:14

       (laughs)

    8. CKCarrie Kolb39:14

       Yeah. Dumb it down. (laughs) And we use five markers that, um, we've determined are the most important from the markers that we test, um, in terms of longevity. So glucose, uh, ALT, hsCRP, vitamin D, and, um, testosterone.

    9. CWChris Williamson39:33

       Okay.

    10. CKCarrie Kolb39:33

        And all those terms-

    11. CWChris Williamson39:34

        And those combined...

    12. CKCarrie Kolb39:35

        Those combined will give you your inner age.

    13. CWChris Williamson39:38

        I'm 31 and mine says that I'm 36. That is because I have quite high glucose.

    14. JLJonathan Levitt39:44

        Mm-hmm.

    15. CWChris Williamson39:44

        I'm right in thinking that that is one of the most heavily weighted?

    16. JLJonathan Levitt39:48

        It is, yeah.

    17. CWChris Williamson39:49

        Why is that the case?

    18. JLJonathan Levitt39:50

        Um, research on longevity, uh, correlating, uh, gluco... Consistently optimized glucose to better longevity.

    19. CWChris Williamson39:59

        Okay. And 86% of Americans have high glucose.

    20. JLJonathan Levitt40:04

        82%, yeah.

    21. CWChris Williamson40:05

        82%.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt40:06

        Yep.

14. 40:07 – 54:16

    Why glucose is so high for so many: eating out, hidden sugars, sedentary life, and ‘busy’ culture

    1. CWChris Williamson40:07

       What's that due to? Like, why is that, why is that the case? Is it high carb diets? Is it too much-

    2. JLJonathan Levitt40:11

       I mean, how long have you, how long have you been in the States?

    3. CWChris Williamson40:14

       Yeah. Yeah, a couple of weeks. There's a lot of, um, a lot of big servings, a lot of sugary food.

    4. JLJonathan Levitt40:19

       Yep.

    5. CWChris Williamson40:21

       Sedentary lifestyle. I don't know. I, it, it does, it does surprise me because although since I've been here, there are some large servings and some large people-

    6. JLJonathan Levitt40:33

       (laughs)

    7. CWChris Williamson40:33

       ... as well. Um, although that's the case, there's more wellness out here than there is in the UK as well.

    8. JLJonathan Levitt40:41

       But you've been in LA and Boston.

    9. CWChris Williamson40:43

       Yes, I have.

    10. JLJonathan Levitt40:44

        So, so-

    11. CWChris Williamson40:45

        Is that unrepresentative?

    12. JLJonathan Levitt40:47

        LA and Boston are, LA in particular is a very, uh, h- wellness conscious place. Um, I was just in Nashville, Tennessee for the weekend. Very not a wellness, uh, conscious place. So you get places like that, that, um, you know, it's a sign of, of status to, to go out to eat all the time. And, and we have research that shows the more you go out to eat, the more likely you are to have elevated glucose.

    13. CWChris Williamson41:18

        Is that really true?

    14. JLJonathan Levitt41:19

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson41:19

        Is that one of the things that you guys asked? I can't remember whether or not it was.

    16. JLJonathan Levitt41:22

        Yep.

    17. CWChris Williamson41:22

        Okay.

    18. JLJonathan Levitt41:23

        How often do you eat out or, or get takeout?

    19. CWChris Williamson41:25

        Okay.

    20. JLJonathan Levitt41:25

        And, and so, um, I mean, that, that, that's true in other places in the country too. Like if you eat out a lot-

    21. CWChris Williamson41:33

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt41:33

        ... then maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's-

    23. CWChris Williamson41:34

        You've got less control of your diet usually when you eat out, right?

    24. JLJonathan Levitt41:37

        For sure. Yeah. And, and even if you order, um, if you're, if your intents are good, like, "I'm gonna get, uh, a salmon with, you know, whatever," you're getting sugar in the mashed potatoes and you're getting sugar in the sauce and you're getting sauce and the, all these different things that you have no control over. So some of our recommendations are around, you know, we've done blogs where we talk about like you're at a restaurant and, and you can ask for your food however the hell you want it. It doesn't have to be what's on the menu. Um, but yeah, so, so getting back to your question, um, of why, why do we think it's so elevated? Sedentary lifestyle. People are sitting from 9:00 to 5:00 every day and they're exhausted by the time they go home, so they're not going to the gym. And-... they sleep or they don't sleep, and they do it, they do it all over again the next day. And, and it's, uh, like a status symbol to, to be busy. And, and being busy is glamorized. And so if you're busy all the time, you can't do the things that you need to do for yourself. And so you're putting other things in the priority, and your health is the cost.

    25. CWChris Williamson42:52

        The comment about being busy being seen as a, a sign of status was something that I was reading, uh, by the guys that make the Six Minute Diary that did a, a free PDF called the Golden Evening Routine.

    26. JLJonathan Levitt43:03

        Yep.

    27. CWChris Williamson43:03

        And they, they talk exactly about that, that, um, modern society praises our, uh, busyness. It, it's a rite of passage and a badge of honor-

    28. JLJonathan Levitt43:15

        Right.

    29. CWChris Williamson43:15

        ... um, that people who are getting after it, like-

    30. JLJonathan Levitt43:19

        Yep.
15. 54:16 – 1:01:29

    Proof drives behavior: pro team case studies, injury reduction, and ‘seeing it’ to believe it

    1. CWChris Williamson54:16

       Incremental changes, right? What do you guys see? So to, to begin to round up, what do you see as, um, an impact on your athlete's performance? Have you got any stats like that? Obviously, I'm gonna guess they won't be putting their 5K times in versus all of their other things. But do you see any, um-

    2. JLJonathan Levitt54:37

       So it's, it's hard to get that on-... the individual athletes. We've looked at some of the data around pro teams we've worked with, um, related to injuries. Uh, so games lost. Look at the San Jose Sharks. They've, they've had a lot of success with that. Um, tra- improving travel, improving round travel. So again, San Jose Sharks, uh, had the year that we did this, um, analysis, they had the best, uh, away record in the league, meaning they were able to manage travel the best based on the data that they were collecting around when do we change, uh, practices and, and how do we improve, you know, how do I make this skate optional and this skate required and get the players to buy in that they should sleep in on this day and they should, they should show up on this day? So, so we looked at some data around that. Um, I'm not sure we have much else, uh, at the organizational level or at the team level, but-

    3. CWChris Williamson55:46

       But injury is going to be such a big deal, right?

    4. JLJonathan Levitt55:49

       Yeah. So-

    5. CWChris Williamson55:49

       Injury's are just a manifestation that something has been pushed so far, and that something might have just been form.

    6. JLJonathan Levitt55:54

       Right.

    7. CWChris Williamson55:54

       It's not always going to manifest, like someone's poor deadlift posture-

    8. JLJonathan Levitt55:58

       Right.

    9. CWChris Williamson55:58

       ... isn't necessarily gonna show up in the blood work.

    10. JLJonathan Levitt56:00

        Exactly. We had another-

    11. CWChris Williamson56:01

        (laughs)

    12. JLJonathan Levitt56:01

        We had an NBA team that, um, the dietitian-

    13. CWChris Williamson56:05

        Said you should.

    14. JLJonathan Levitt56:05

        (laughs)

    15. CWChris Williamson56:06

        Said you should. (laughs) You have, you have skinny posterior chain.

    16. JLJonathan Levitt56:10

        Yeah. Squat shaming.

    17. CWChris Williamson56:11

        Yeah.

    18. JLJonathan Levitt56:11

        Um, so we had an NBA dietitian that they came to us and said, um, "I think, I think paleo is a problem, and I think it's a problem for our athletes because they're tired and injured all the time."

    19. GUGuest56:25

        (laughs)

    20. JLJonathan Levitt56:26

        (laughs) And, and-

    21. CWChris Williamson56:27

        Something's a problem.

    22. JLJonathan Levitt56:28

        And she was like, she was like, "And I'm the dietitian, and they're not listening to, to my nutrition advice, so I need this blood work done."

    23. CWChris Williamson56:36

        Who, who's doing the paleo? The, the athletes-

    24. JLJonathan Levitt56:37

        The athletes.

    25. CWChris Williamson56:37

        ... just think that they know better than the dietitian?

    26. JLJonathan Levitt56:40

        Yes. So the, the culture at so- in some of these organizations is they listen to the strength coach or they listen to the head trainer or they listen to some, some guy that's been at- in the organization or in the sport for 20, 30 years-

    27. CWChris Williamson56:54

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JLJonathan Levitt56:54

        ... whereas the dietitians are credentialed. They went to school for nutrition and they... That's their job.

    29. CWChris Williamson57:01

        Mm-hmm.

    30. JLJonathan Levitt57:01

        So she was able to get the blood work done and, and came back and she was like, "I'm right. Check that out."
16. 1:01:29 – 1:04:36

    Wrap-up: Cambridge ‘nerd central,’ facility context, and the call for higher-resolution health thinking

    1. CWChris Williamson1:01:29

       There we go. Um, so guys, I'm really excited to go and have a look at the unit, which is next door. So, throughout this episode, everyone will have been seeing all of the footage from behind the scenes. Can you very briefly take us through what your facility is, and what we'll be, what we'll be looking at?

    2. GUGuest1:01:47

       Sure. Um, so it is a sh- it's a shared workspace.

    3. CWChris Williamson1:01:51

       Yep.

    4. GUGuest1:01:51

       Um, we are in Cambridge, Massachusetts, which is right outside of Boston, or, uh-

    5. JLJonathan Levitt1:01:56

       Nerd central of the world.

    6. CWChris Williamson1:01:57

       Is this nerd central?

    7. GUGuest1:01:58

       Yeah.

    8. JLJonathan Levitt1:01:59

       Nerd center of the world.

    9. GUGuest1:01:59

       This is where MIT and Harvard and all of the smarties, the smartest of the smart live.

    10. CWChris Williamson1:02:04

        Just Dungeons & Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons, but for, for four square miles.

    11. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:07

        (laughs)

    12. GUGuest1:02:07

        (laughs)

    13. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:08

        No seriously, this is, um, you're looking at MIT right over there.

    14. CWChris Williamson1:02:11

        Yep.

    15. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:11

        Harvard is where you came from-

    16. CWChris Williamson1:02:13

        Yeah.

    17. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:13

        ... just up the river. Tufts is one of the top, uh, nutrition programs in the country. Um, and yeah, it's the epicenter of, of education and health and technology. Google and Facebook.

    18. GUGuest1:02:26

        And Amazon is in the building next door where we're going.

    19. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:28

        And Amazon, all within, yeah, 50 feet of here.

    20. CWChris Williamson1:02:31

        Wow.

    21. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:31

        So.

    22. CWChris Williamson1:02:32

        So you're in the right place.

    23. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:33

        Yeah.

    24. CWChris Williamson1:02:33

        Well guys, thank you very much for your time.

    25. GUGuest1:02:35

        Thanks for coming.

    26. CWChris Williamson1:02:35

        I really appreciate you coming on.

    27. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:36

        Of course.

    28. CWChris Williamson1:02:36

        Thank you for having me out here. I'm, uh, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens if I do change up these, my beans, if I change up my oatmeal. And I hope that the listeners at home as well will have started to realize how important it is to consider these sort of things. In the same way as David Sinclair was talking about the fact that people believe that aging is just this process that we're along for the ride with.

    29. JLJonathan Levitt1:02:56

        Right.

    30. CWChris Williamson1:02:56

        I think people believe that, um, a degree of ignorance of what is happening inside of their body is also like, "Oh well, I'm just, I don't know."

Episode duration: 1:04:36