Modern WisdomJAMES ALTUCHER | How To Improve Every Day & Harness The Power Of Ideas | Modern Wisdom Podcast 137
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
125 min read · 25,331 words- 0:00 – 1:04
Buying convenience: time, commutes, and why no-stops matter
- JAJames Altucher
... that I like convenience. So if I'm flying somewhere, I don't like to take three stops to save money, I like to just spend the money on no stops.
- CWChris Williamson
One of the resources that you cannot buy any more of is time, right? How long's this commute? You're talking maybe an hour a day there, an hour a day back? Two hours a day, five days a week? At the end of your life, you'd give your fortune for an extra minute.
- JAJames Altucher
I think that's very important. Now, all of that might change when there's automated driving. I think you'll see kind of these mobile offices driving around, so you can live much further away from your place of work. I mean, if you think about it, right now the equivalent is taking a train into work. But then a train, you know, it's a little crowded, you're sitting next to somebody, you don't really have, like, a desk. But still, I've heard of people doing remarkable things on their commute to work by working on the train ride in. One friend of mine wrote the movie Pitch Perfect by writing one page a day on the subway into work. When everything's automated and convenient and quick, people will think about this in terms of lifestyle. Like, "How can I live further away from the city and get all the benefits of being at work?" Which is what automated driving should give us.
- 1:04 – 2:33
The awkward art of podcast intros (and jumping straight into the good stuff)
- CWChris Williamson
James, hey man. Welcome to the show.
- JAJames Altucher
Chris, thanks for having me on the show. I am so glad to be here. Isn't, uh, aren't intros so awkward? Like you just know, you don't, you never really know what to say and how to bring people in. I always have a hard time on podcasts with the intros.
- CWChris Williamson
It is the single worst bit of the job. And I, I, you know, behind the curtain I hate doing it, every single time. Do I do this weird, like, foreplay fellatio thing, where I'm telling 'em about all of their accomplishments, or even your inside seam measurement and what you wear, what you like to eat before you go to bed and stuff. Like, I don't know.
- JAJames Altucher
(laughs) Well, you know, here's a, here's an idea. I'm gonna try this. I'm gonna do an intro, and then I'm gonna just start talking when people, when we get into conversation, and then I'm gonna hit record. And this way it's like people just jump right into the conversation.
- CWChris Williamson
Do you know who Rory Sutherland is?
- JAJames Altucher
Uh, yeah, I've heard the name. I don't, I don't know who he is.
- CWChris Williamson
Vice-Chairman of Ogilvy Advertising in the UK. You need-
- JAJames Altucher
Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
... to get him on. Let me link you two up for your podcast, man, 'cause you'll absolutely love him.
- JAJames Altucher
Excellent.
- CWChris Williamson
But that, that guy is e- the exact same as trying to step onto a s- a train that is moving at high speed. So podcasting with him, he just went. So I was like, "Right, Rory, I'm just gonna, um, I'm, I'm just gonna do a little bit of a sound check and then we'll do an intro." And he went, "Right, Russia." And then just started talking about Russia. And I was like, "No, Rory, I, uh, uh, uh, nevermind. Just hit the record button." Then I was like, "Right, I'll just get cracking from the beginning."
- JAJames Altucher
That's funny. Yeah, that's a good idea.
- CWChris Williamson
It's fun.
- JAJames Altucher
I'm gonna try that too.
- 2:33 – 5:19
Spectacular boom-and-bust cycles: making millions, then hitting $143
- CWChris Williamson
It's fun, man. Right, so, um, where do we start? I'll tell you what, why don't we start, we started something that, that would be a good story for everyone. So you've failed, uh, quite spectacularly (laughs) uh, a couple of times and then bounced back and then failed again and bounced back. Can you take us through some of those experiences and sort of what they meant to you and what you learned from them?
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. I mean, I think it's always hard because I've told, you know, I've, I've written about this story and I always try to have a new take on it. But the reality is, I didn't, I n- I, I, I always got ahead of myself, didn't know what I was doing, and then failed spectacularly. So for instance, I built and sold a business in, in the '90s. I, I wasn't a businessman. I didn't wanna be an entrepreneur. I had zero interest. I just kinda stumbled into it. Sold the business, made millions, uh, and I thought I was smart. Like, you think when you're, when you're smart in one area, you kind of think you're smart in every other area. So I started just, I don't, I, you know, I had, I had enough money for not only me to survive a lifetime, but my children's children to survive a lifetime. And two years later, I was so stupid during those two years, I had, I had 140... I was left with $143 left in my bank account total. That was all I was worth. I was losing my house, losing everything, didn't know what I was gonna do. I had, I had no friends left, because, you know, I, I... And this was 20 years ago, um, but, you know, basically on the way up everyone wants to be your friend, and on the way down nobody knows you. And it wasn't because they were bad or I was bad or I was good, it's just, you know, I didn't do the right things to cultivate the best possible relationships. And I kind of thought the money would always last and the money would keep on flowing. And I just didn't realize that, that for the first time in my life, bad things could, could really happen. I was used to just starting from zero, having nothing. It was better when I had nothing than when I had millions, because then I just started making stupid decisions and started getting really depressed about losing everything. And then by the time I had lost everything, I was phenomenally depressed. And so then, you know, starting from scratch is hard, but I'll, I'll, I'll, you know, we could talk the details, but I basically, this happened to me several times. Like, I would start something new, make a lot of money, then lose everything. Start something new, make a lot of money, lose everything. Start something new, make a lot of money, lose everything. It took me a long time to realize, "You know what? It's me (laughs) "
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
"... that's doing something wrong."
- CWChris Williamson
The common denominator here.
- 5:19 – 8:49
What really went wrong: ego, leverage, and the three skills of money
- JAJames Altucher
Right, the c- the total common denominator was that I was an idiot. And there's three skills to money. There's making it, keeping it, growing it. And somehow I had the skill of making it, uh, and which by the way, I didn't know at first. Yeah, I had to learn that. But then I realized it took... Unfortunately I learned re- l- le- realized too late. I had no skill at keeping it and growing it, and I had to really start from scratch learning those skills. And that was, that was difficult. You know, now it's 20 years later, knock on wood, I think I have those skills, but, but we'll see. Maybe I'll go broke tomorrow.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
We never know. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah. I suppose those strategic learning experiences, right? Like, there's no bigger way to deliver a hammer blow learning than by going broke a couple of times from a few million.
- JAJames Altucher
... no, I mean, and but the thing is, you don't, you don't say to yourself, "Oh, this is great, I just lost everything, learning opportunity."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
Like, it just doesn't-
- CWChris Williamson
There's something, a bit more visceral there, right?
- JAJames Altucher
It ju- ... Yeah, it just doesn't, it just doesn't happen that way. Like, like, I would lose everything. The very, the very first time was probably the hardest, because I thought to myself, "You know, I just won the lottery." Like basically. Like I didn't know anything about business or entrepreneurship. I s- I knew, I knew how to build a website in the '90s, and no one else did. So, uh, I shouldn't say no one else did, but very few people did. And I knew how to ... I was like maybe one of the best at doing it, in terms of both technology and understanding of, you know, what, uh, what my, the client's needs were. I was a good salesperson, I understood what their needs were. I built a business. A- and I built websites for americanexpress.com, uh, all, a lot of record labels, a lot of entertainment companies, uh, all, all sorts of big, major companies. And we built it up, we sold it, and a lot of my business inexperience, uh, took place during this process. Like, I could've been a software company instead of a service company. Like I could've m- ... I had software to help me build websites, but I didn't use it as software, I used it as services. Which I didn't understand that software companies are bought for higher evaluations than service companies.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
So I w- I was valued on a multiple of my profit. I was a profitable internet company, which was a horrible mistake during the '90s.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
And so I sold ... But I still sold for a good amount. Like my, my friends were selling their companies for like $300 million. I sold mine, made $15 million, and then, and then I started ... A- a- and I, and I cashed out. It wasn't like I had paper. I cashed out. I was, I thought to myself, "This internet boom is not gonna last forever." I was smart.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
And then, f- ... Even though I thought that, and even though I cashed out, here's what I did. I invested all the money in internet companies. And I just ... And then I also bought, like, the biggest house I could possibly buy, and I would take, you know, helicopters everywhere. If I wanted to go, like down the street, I would take a helicopter. Like it was just no, no expense was, was too big. And, uh, uh, I, I quite correctly lost everything, and I thought to myself, "Oh my gosh, this ... I had won the lottery, I'm never gonna be able to do this again. I don't know what I'm doing. And I don't wanna, I don't wanna go back to what I was doing before." Like, what am I gonna do, be like a junior programmer at some accounting firm?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I already had tasted, you know, Mount Olympus.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- 8:49 – 14:32
The dark side of failure: suicidal thinking and a decade of unhappy striving
- JAJames Altucher
And I w- I wanted to ... I didn't know what to do. I was really scared and unhappy. And ... really scared, and like to the point of being suicidal. Like I, I had, um ... When I was riding high, I took out a, a, a extensive life insurance policy for my kids, and my ba- ... My kids were still babies. I figured, "They're not gonna remember me," so I thought it would be better for them to have the life insurance policy than me. And that's how dark it was getting. And, you know, and, and then I was really unhappy, I would say, for the next, I don't know, maybe 10 or 11 years, as I just, I was constantly in the struggle to kind of s- succeed again. And every time I succeeded, I would lose it again. I just, I, I didn't know what was going on.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Disappointments suck, don't they?
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like it, it's a, it's a really, (clears throat) a really crucifying emotion to have. To have something that you thought was right or good or there, you had it, and now you don't have it. And you've got this sort of wistful hole of where it used to be.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. And, and, and I thought, "Okay, the way I can make it back is through business, the business world." But I was never a business guy to begin with, and I didn't really enjoy business. And so I kept staying focused on, "Okay, well, I'll just do this one more business, and then I'll get back to what I truly love." Which is a really horrible attitude to have. Like, you know, I basically spent something like 25% of my life, you know, in this pursuit of that holy grail again, being desperately unhappy and stressed and anxious. And you know, it was all the things that happened, I can't really remember that many pleasant memories-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
... from, from the whole experience. Even, people say, "Oh, but how about your kids?" Nope, because I would hang out with my kids and I always think, "Man, I just, I blew their future too." I not only blew my future, I blew their future. And I, and every time I spend time with them, I'd be anxious about business. So I even, I r- I ... You know, people say, "Oh, I have no regrets, else I wouldn't be who I am today." Which is true, but, but I do regret not taking a different kind of world view on, on what was happening to me, a b- different macro view.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Well-
- JAJames Altucher
Because I bet, I bet, I bet you I could've done many things and still done well. And I was just so focused on, on business.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And it was just such a stupid thing to focus on.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? You've always got-
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... this perfect vision when you look backward. So, (clears throat) one of the things that I thought that was really interesting was, you don't have this like Hollywood, um, Joe Rogan style, like grit your teeth and no dog's gonna g- ... Like I'm the dog that if you kick me, I d- I get back up. And you know, it's not that kind of like really romantic, um, level of resilience and grit. It, it seems a lot more real than that.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah, like I don't think I had any resilience. Um, and you know, Joe Rogan, I don't know his full story. I really admire him, I admire his podcast, I admire his interviewing style, and his background. But he kind of went from ... To his credit, 'cause I think he's a smart guy. Uh, he went from success to success. Like he was a s- ... A, a struggling standup comedian, but it's not like he made it to the top and fell.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And then he was, uh, on, uh, various TV shows, including Fear Factor and, and, and at least one sitcom. And then he was a, he had a lot of experience with MMA. He became an MMA announcer while he was starting his podcast.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
So I sort of feel like he had a very natural growth in his career. And I'm sure he made some mistakes.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
But I ... My mistake was, I started off doing something I didn't wanna do-... and then I thought I was smarter than I was, and then I made a series of incredibly bad high-stakes decisions, lost everything, and then I repeated the whole process four or five times. (laughs) So I wish I had gone from kind of struggle to success, to a little more struggle, to a little more success-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
... you know, kind of, kind of the natural path of things. Instead, I, I, I, I, I didn't. Now, I ha- because of that, here's where I could say I have no regrets. I have learned an enormous amount. Like, I have so much experience. I was able to share it in, you know, books and podcasts and so on that I know have, have created some impact, and I'm very proud of that. But, you know, at the same time, I'm kind of s- I feel like I'm a little bit scarred on the inside. I, I mean, I started with absolutely nothing and thought I made something of myself, but maybe, you know, uh, but then I just started squandering that, and... I remember one time, this was, like, the maybe third or fourth time I went broke. I was, I had f- I had done the usual bad things. I had... This time, I didn't buy just one big house, I bought two big houses right next to each other, and I had a hammock right in between the two. And I was, like, lying on this hammock, uh, just, just, like, upset at myself, and then it started raining. And it's just almost like a cliché image, but-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... I just remember thinking to myself, "I cannot believe this has happened to me again, and here I am." I'm just soaking wet. I don't wanna go inside and face my kids, and, and, and my now ex-wife, and, and admit how much of a failure I am, but at the same time, I just had no- nothing to do, nowhere to go.
- CWChris Williamson
So what's the, what's the mindset there? Because, you know, there's people who are in varying gradations of bad, bad situation at the moment. Like I say, it's not this romantic, "I, I, I saw the, the butterfly emerge from the chrysalis and thought, 'That's me. I'm a this.'" Like, it wasn't, it doesn't have that sort of, that signature to it. What was the mindset-
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah, and I-
- CWChris Williamson
... to not just give up?
- 14:32 – 17:02
Rebuilding from scratch with a daily practice: 1% better in four domains
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah, and, and just, just to add quickly to what you said, I think there's kind of almost a genre of failure porn now in Silicon Valley, like, or, or in entrepreneurship world, where people basically say, "Oh, I failed, so now I'm ready to succeed." Like, it's, "Failure's a badge of honor. Now I can succeed. Everybody will think I'm smarter 'cause I learned from my failures." I didn't feel that way at all. I had, you know... Anyway, I already described how bad it was. But I, I, I, I kind of said, "You know, this has happened to me enough..." F- first of all, I felt like there was a gun to my head. It's not like I was just gonna give up at this point. Uh, I had to do something. And so I had to ask myself, "Well, what, what was working for me on the way up, and what was not working for me on the way down?" It's not like... People sometimes ask me, "I wanna start a business. What's the right idea?" Or, "I wanna invest something. What's the right stock?" Uh, or, or, "I need to find my passion in life. Well, how, what do I do?" And, eh, that's sort of, like, the, th- uh, the last questions you ask. First, I had to kind of build up my inner, my inner frame, or my inner presence, so that I could have strength again to succeed, and I realized that's what I had always done on the way up, and I had given up this, what I'll call a daily practice, on the way down. And so what, how do you... So I s- so I started very seriously, every day, focusing, and it's very simple, and again, it's so simple it almost sounds like a cliché, um, but I very simply started focusing every single day, am I 1% better in terms of my physical health, emotional health, creative health, and I'll call it spiritual health, for lack of a better word? And physical health means, it's very simple, am I eating better, moving better, sleeping better? Doesn't mean I have to go to a gym and lift weights every day, doesn't mean I have to be a vegan, but you know, am I eat- am I eating a little better today than I did yesterday? Am I moving around or exercising a little bit more today than I did yesterday? Just a tiny bit. Just a tiny, tiny bit. Am I sleeping eight hours a day? Emotional health. Am I pruning the toxic relationships in my life and focusing on the better relationships? And there's a lot of reasons for that. First off, with the physical health, if you get sick, you're not gonna come up with ideas while you're sick, so that's why that's so important. Second off, with the emotional health, if you're constantly arguing with a spouse, or bad partners, or other toxic people in your life, you're not gonna
- 17:02 – 20:06
The 10-ideas-per-day method: training the ‘idea muscle’ (and why execution is ideas)
- JAJames Altucher
be creative and have the energy to build a business, or to write a book, or to do exciting things in your life. Creative health, people don't realize this, but creativity is a muscle, and like any muscle, it atrophies within days or weeks if you don't use it. So I just make sure I'm creative every day. Specifically, what I try to do is I try to write down 10 ideas a day. Like, "Oh, what are 10 ideas for businesses I could start? What are 10 ideas for books I could write?" And by the way, it doesn't have to be about me. I could say, "What are 10 ideas Jeff Bezos should do to make Amazon better? What are 10 ideas Gmail could have to, to be better?" And they're, they're, uh, it's not intended to create businesses that I could start, because I'm, I'm coming up with 3,650 ideas a, a year.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
Like, you can't, you can't act on more than one or two of those. But, uh, the whole idea is, again, to exercise that idea muscle. What happens when I'm coming up with 10 ideas? By idea number seven, I, it's like my brain is sweating. Like, it's, if you're, if you're, if you're doing it right, or you're trying to come up with the best ideas for the category you list, I'm, I'm, I'm sweat- I keep counting, "Have I hit 10 yet? Oh, no, eight. How do I come up with nine and 10?" And it's just, it should be really hard, eight, nine, and 10, and it usually is. And, you know, people say, "Oh, ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution is everything." What they don't realize is that execution is just a subset of ideas. You need execution ideas in order to execute. 'Cause I know people who are really bad at executing on a good idea. There's a whole spectrum of bad execution to good execution. So you need to be creative to have good execution ideas as well, which is why this creative mu- creativity muscle is so important to exercise.... now, spiritual health, it doesn't mean pray, doesn't mean meditate, although it could mean those things. Just means a little bit more of a sense of some things in life you can control, some things you can't. Don't be anxious or fearful or worried about the things you can't control. Focus on the things you can control and keep expecta- expectations low, or else you're going to set yourself up for disappointment. So those-
- CWChris Williamson
And you're going, you're gonna be in a helicopter flying next door.
- JAJames Altucher
By the way, I'm taking a helicopter tomorrow-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... so I hope I don't go broke now. But, uh, and again, if I just focus on these four things each day, and nothing else. Like don't w- don't worry, "Oh, am I gonna be broke two years from now? Am I gonna... How am I gonna feed my kids six months from now?" Just simply get back to that practice of, "Did I improve myself physically, emotionally, creatively, spiritually today?" 'Cause those are the... It's right, like today, right now, those are the only things you can control. Yeah, maybe I can send two or three emails to connections, or maybe if I have a great idea for Amazon, and I know somebody at Amazon, I could send an email to Amazon, "Here's my 10 ideas for you." But most of the time, you can't do that. You just have to focus on what you can focus on today. By the way, sending idea lists to other people when I really feel the ideas are good can turn directly into dollars.
- 20:06 – 25:54
Managing complexity in modern life: simple rules beat massive to-do lists
- CWChris Williamson
One of the things that I think that's really interesting is how we try and break down the messiness of life, right? Life is this big, chaotic, amorphous, nebulous, ephemeral blob and breaking it down into these more manageable chunks, it appears to be something that's quite... It's quite a common tactic. Mutual friend and mutual podcast guest of ours, Kamal Ravikant, his practice about loving yourself, it's a daily practice. It's, you know, it's only a small part of your day, but it ekes into the rest of your day, right? Is there... Is, is this a, a modern problem, do you think? The fact that we've got this kes- messy, chaotic life at the moment and, and people are really struggling to kind of make sense of what's going on? Is this a, a practice which has only recently become useful?
- JAJames Altucher
Uh, yes and no. I mean, life is much more complex now. So if you're a, a serf in the 1700s in, I don't know, the Ukraine or whatever, life wasn't really that pleasant. It wasn't re- nobody... You wouldn't, like, say to yourself while you're surfing the, you know-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
... while you're, you know, plowing through the fields and pulling up weeds or whatever serfs did, you wouldn't be saying to yourself, "I've got to love myself. I've got to love myself."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
Uh, you just had to do what you had to do. But now, everything's complex. Like, you know, we, we sort of... We don't live in our, in the village we're born in. We don't, we don't see every day the family we grew up with. We kind of create our environments. That, in itself, is complex. Then, let's say you start a business. It's so easy to get caught up in, "Ugh, did I maximize revenues today? Did I reach out to all the clients? Did I cover all the details? Did I pay everybody? Did I motivate everybody? Did I work on product development?" I don't know. But if you just focus on these four things I said, you'll end up doing the right thing. Like if you, if you're doing that, it's not like you'll suddenly say, "Okay, well, I'm, I'm done with my day. Now I can go to sleep." No. "Okay, if I'm, if I'm being creative, if I'm healthy, uh, if I'm, if I'm not worried about my relationships, okay, now it, now it's time to get to work. I can work on an article. I can work on an email to a client, you know? But, um, I could collect... I could delegate collecting some, you know, invoices that are outstanding." Whatever it is. Whatever it is that we're worried about. But life is really complex, so it helps to boil it down to simple things, where if you do those simple things, you know you're gonna be okay in the long run. Like I have huge faith, 'cause now I've seen it in action for a long, long time. I have huge faith that if I do my version of this daily practice, uh, and everybody's version could be different. If I do my version, then things are gonna be great in the long run. I never have to think about the long run if I'm, if I did what I need to do today. So some people tell me, oh, they, they have a to-do list. And I'm like, "Why do you have a to-do list?" And then they say, "Oh, to keep track of the 50 things I have to, I have to do." And I'm like, "Well, how are you gonna do 50 things, like, right now? Uh, what are you gonna do right now?" And, and they don't really know. They don't really know how to answer that question. At any given point during the day, like let's say after this podcast, I have some free time, and I've already done my kind of daily practice of the day. I wrote my 10 ideas a day down. I worked on my relationships. I took a walk, whatever. Okay, if I have some free time, and I, and I'm not yet ready to relax for the day, maybe I will write to a customer, or maybe I will come up with, uh, you know, start work on writing, uh, another article or, or do something related to business or whatever. Like y- at any point, you know what is the highest priority thing to do. So I don't need to keep a to-do list, because at any given point that I have free time, I'm just gonna do the one thing that is the highest priority. And then when I finish that, I'm gonna do the next thing. And now how do I know what's the highest priority? If it's not high priority, I'm not gonna think about it.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
I'm always thinking about what's the highest priority, and then I'll do it.
- CWChris Williamson
One of the things I'm thinking about as you were talking about that, the serf from Ukraine. I don't even know what a serf is. I thought you meant a surfer. Um, one of the things that I've got in my head there is that (clears throat) as we've got more abundance and life has become a lot more comfortable and convenient for everybody in the 21st century, um, thinking about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? And previously, like if you, if you didn't have food or water or safety or you were maybe gonna freeze or maybe one of your kids was gonna get taken away by a mountain lion tonight, like you're probably not wondering about whether or not you're self-actualizing. Like you're-
- JAJames Altucher
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... what you need to worry about is only a few levels thick. And I-
- JAJames Altucher
Right, like...... you know, and, and Maslow's hierarchy of needs is interesting because we've kind of gotten through that first level, which is nobody's really worried about being thirsty later today. Like, you could just turn on the faucet and get a glass. E- even if you're homeless, you can ... Most countries in the world, there's places you could go and get, uh, a meal and water and even find shelter. And in fact, you know, the, the big problem with homeless people is not, uh, that people can't find a home, it's that a l- many of the homeless people are mentally ill and are not being treated correctly. But, uh, that, that aside, you know, I think a lot of our basic needs are taken care of and, and then we fool ourselves into thinking, "Well, I'm only gonna be happy when I have the car I want or, or the private jet I want," or whatever, when all that is, is stupid. Like, a few years ago, I, I did an experiment, but I, I decided
- 25:54 – 32:03
Abundance, stuff, and the carry-on experiment: what do you actually need?
- JAJames Altucher
to ... I was renting two apartments, one upstate New York where my kids were and one in New York City where all the opportunities were, and both my leases were up. And I don't like to own a place, I like to rent, but I decided, you know what? I don't even wanna rent anymore. So, I threw out all of my belongings in both apartments. I had 40 years worth of belongings-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... that I, that, you know, just in general, you accumulate-
- CWChris Williamson
Stuff.
- JAJames Altucher
... crap over time. Yeah. And you don't even realize how much you accumulate. So, I, I was going on a trip and I said to a friend of mine, I said, "Clean out my apartments and throw ... You can do w- you can do this. You can either give anything, or you can either keep anything for yourself, whatever you wanna keep you can keep for yourself, or, or give to charity, or throw it out." Uh, and, but when, I said, "When I come back, I want nothing at all. I'm not gonna go back to these apartments, I'm never gonna set foot in them again. I don't want, I don't want anything left in them." And, and I said to her, "It should take you just a day. You know, just bring your car, it'll take a day."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
It took ... She had to rent a truck-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... like, an 18 Wheeler, and it took her, her husband, and all her cousins, like, an entire week-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... to, to clear everything out. You don't even realize how much junk you have. And the, and the only time she called me during the whole week, 'cause I told her not to call me at all, and the only time she called me was, she said, "What about your college diploma? You must have worked so hard for that. Like, are you sure you want me to throw that out?" And I'm like, "Yeah, burn that-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... because I got nothing out of that." I mean, I'm a wreck. That diploma didn't help me at all. And, and so then for, for two and a half years after that, I lived out of a carryon bag and just lived from Airbnb to Airbnb. And I made it a discipline for myself if I ever bought something new, like a new T-shirt, I had to remove a T-shirt from the carryon bag.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
So, I just had my computer, my phone, couple T-shirts, couple pairs of pants, and a button-down shirt, and that's it. And so I could read books on, you know, the Kindle app on my phone and work on my computer, and I had enough clothes to change in, and I'd stay in Airbnbs where there was laundry. And that's ... I never had to actually-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
I never had to actually own anything. And that's the reality, y- whether you have a lot of money or a little money, there's nothing you actually need to own other than a carryon bag. Now, if you live in an apartment that you rent, yes, you have to ha- own the basics. You have to have a bed and sheets, and maybe a plate or two and a table to eat on.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
Or not. Like, I've l- I've been in situations (laughs) where I didn't have those things. So, you know, i- it's amazing. And then, uh, after that, I, so eventually I stopped doing that, but I still have that discipline where there's nothing really I, I strive for, uh, in terms of material possessions. And I'm not saying, like, I'm some sort of monk. I do wanna, I do like to have a good amount of money, but mostly because, you know, I wanna make sure going into my older age eventually that my health is taken care of and, um, as healthcare gets more and more expensive, and I wanna make sure my kids are taken care of in case there's an emergency. And, you know, but, but that's it really. I, I don't really have w- much more, many more needs than that.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you-
- JAJames Altucher
And I like to be creative. I, I like to have the money to, so I could wake up every day relaxed and focused and, and being creative. Now, some would argue better to not have money so you're hungry to be creative, but I'm, I'm pretty hungry to be creative.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Have you watched much of the minimalist documentaries, any of those sort of YouTubes or, or documentaries on the movement?
- JAJames Altucher
No. Although I know those guys, and they've reached out to me before and we've communicated, but I don't really consider myself a minimalist.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
Because I, I guess I don't really know what that is. I mean, like, again, homeless people are minimalist as well. But I-
- CWChris Williamson
Not by choice, but yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
Right, not by choice. But, uh, and again, I do like to have money. I'm not moving into, like, a tiny home, you know, there's these tiny homes that are, like, 200 square feet and you have your entire home in there. But, uh, uh, uh, I just wanted to try this one experiment. I don't know ... I think a lot of people have labeled it minimalist, and maybe it is, but for me it was just my own experiment for me about, about what, what do I really need to, to live. And I was perfectly happy. I could have lived that lifestyle the rest of my life except for the fact that, you know, I think when you wanna get, when you wanna date and you wanna get married-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... uh, s- you know, your, your spouse might not like that lifestyle.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- 32:03 – 35:09
Minimalism vs. convenience: using money to reduce friction (and future ‘mobile offices’)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
... I can think of loving. Uh, o- one way in which I'm not a minimalist is that I like convenience. So if I'm working in a certain location, I like to live across the street from that location. That's convenient. And, or if I'm flying somewhere, I don't like to take three stops to save money. I like to just spend the money on no stops. (laughs) So, so, uh, convenience is very important to me. I think-
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- JAJames Altucher
... I think money is good for buying convenience. And, and by the way, convenience is related to better health, longer life, and, and many other things.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, one of the resources that you cannot buy any more of is time, right?
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And when you're talking about the, the extra cost, whatever it is that you want to save, so, okay, how much would you pay for, I don't know ... Like, I've been to New York. I went last year, and the commute in there takes f- days. It's measured in days.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, (clears throat) li- how long's this commute? You're talking maybe an hour? An hour a day there, an hour a day back? Two hours a day, five days a week, you know, however long you're gonna be working in this business for? But all right, how much would you pay for, for that? Because at the end of your life, you'd give your fortune for an extra minute.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. That's right. So, I think that's very important. Now, now all of that might change when there's automated driving. I, I think you'll see kind of these mobile offices driving around, so you can live much further away from your place of work and stuff, 'cause you could work in your, your mobile office.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
But, uh, uh, right now, I like to ... I mean, basically, everything I do during the d- uh, uh, 90% of the things I do during a week happen within 250 feet of where I'm sitting right now. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
That's so (laughs) funny. Do you think, uh, I'm, I'm sort of envisioning, like, a flexible work station, like a library on wheels in an articulated vehicle with, like, quite nice airy windows. Do you s- do you see us getting that soon?
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. Yeah, within the next five to ten years.
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, fuck. Man, I am ... James, I am so ready for that. I'm so ready to take a journey some place and just be, be able to have ... Do you think they'll have standing desks? 'Cause I'd love it if they had standing desks.
- JAJames Altucher
I don't know, but, I mean, if you think about it, like, right now, the equivalent is like if you're taking a train into work.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And ... But then a train, you're kind of ... You know, it's a little crowded, you're sitting next to somebody. You don't really have, like, a desk. But still, I've heard of people doing remarkable things on their commute to work by working on the train ride in. Uh, e- I've, I've heard about one friend of mine wrote a page a day of a murder mystery and ended up now he's got a ... three books in the series of this one detective, and he, he succ- he, he did one page a day on the train. And then another person, uh, uh, wrote the movie Pitch Perfect by writing one page a day on the subway in- to work. And so I've heard stories like that, uh, and ... But I do think when, when everything's automated and convenient and quick, y- there'll be ... Pe- people will think about this in terms of lifestyle, like, "Hey, how, how can I live further away from, you know, the city and get all the be- uh, get all the benefits of, like, being at work?" Which is what automated driving sh- should give us.
- 35:09 – 39:30
Existential risk in a hyper-convenient world: couch culture, TikTok nausea, and motivation
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Well, do you think about people finding meaning as we get increasing automation and increasing convenience and stuff like that? You know, what we've talked about today is looking after some of the basics. To go back to Joe Rogan, as a good example, he thinks that one of the things that we all require in life is to overcome adversity, to have some sort of ... I don't think he would call it suffering, but some kind of challenge to a- and incrementally increase that challenge over time. Is there a concern as we automate and make convenience higher and higher, people have to do less and less for themselves, that there's gonna be some ... everyone's just gonna be struck with this existential crisis as you're, like, laid in bed getting McDonald's pumped into you by, like, by a drone?
- JAJames Altucher
Well, that's a great question. Let me ask you, uh, right now do you have an existential crisis? Today?
- CWChris Williamson
Not this second. I need to go shopping in a supermarket later on-
- JAJames Altucher
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and it tends to strike me there. I hate shopping in a supermarket, but no, yeah-
- JAJames Altucher
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
... you're right.
- JAJames Altucher
But, but, but, like, you wake up and you think, "Okay, who am I gonna have on my podcast?" You wake up and think, "What opportunity, what other opportunities can I explore? Who can I network with? Who can I connect? Who can I help?" So ... And yet, the scenario you just described already exists. Like, you say you have to buy ... go to a supermarket. Well, your supermarket has a website. You could order online and if you trust the people who do the packaging at the supermarket, you'll get just as high quality food as if you had gone there yourself, and it'll be delivered right to you. I sort of think the weird thing about entrepreneurship the past 10 years is that there's been this weird lack of innovation, and instead, everybody who's an entrepreneur has been focused on, "How do you ma- how do I make everybody's life so that they could just sit on a couch-"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
"... all day long and binge-watch Game of Thrones?"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
So, for instance, I can, I can get a master chef make me a great meal and somebody will deliver it to me. You know, I could use Grubhub or Seamless or Doordash or whatever. Someone will deliver it right to my home. I could then ...... uh, uh, if I wasn't home, by the way, I could take an Uber to go home. And then I could turn on Netflix and somebody, some great director and writer spent $200 million making The Irishman movie, and I could just watch it on my home. I don't have to go to a movie theater anymore. So you really-
- CWChris Williamson
And if you need to go to the bathroom to have a toilet break, you can continue it on your phone, your mobile device, so that you don't have to stop watching it while you go to the bathroom.
- JAJames Altucher
By the way, which I, which I do that, like ... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
So, so, so I think, I think almost every company in the past 10 years, and I'm, I exaggerating a little bit, there's examples otherwise, but almost every company has been designed just to make it more easier, more easy for me to just sit on my couch all day and binge-watch. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. And then there's other companies that have come in, in a, a way to try and antidote that problem, but still the ethos is the same. Like Peloton is a perfect example. Peloton is working to try and get people to go and do the workout. It's the antidote to the fact that you're sedentary, but bizarrely, it's delivered in a way which is so hyper convenient as that you don't even need to leave your ... You know, everyone, every single person in a Peloton ad has floor-to-ceiling infinity glass kitchens that overlook a beautiful park somewhere in a tower block. But the-
- JAJames Altucher
Right. They put the b- uh, they put the bike right in front of the, the view, and their kids are eating cereal right next to them-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
... and they, they, it's like they're in a gym and they do all the exercise. Uh, you don't even have to go to the gym anymore.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
And, uh, uh, I, I think we've already hit that existential moment.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Right.
- JAJames Altucher
And we, it has, it wasn't an issue really. Like it's not like we say, "Oh gosh, I could just binge-watch all day," or, "I could watch TikTok videos all day." Some days I do watch TikTok videos all day.
- CWChris Williamson
That's happening. That's happening right now. Yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
Right. But, but you still, at the end of a day like that, you feel like, "Oh, that felt kinda, I, that felt kinda bad actually. I feel kinda nauseous almost."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And so the next day then you get up and you work, and if you don't, if you're like lacking motivation, then, you know, some people do suffer from that, and the key I always get back to is, well, okay, did you 1% improve physical health, emotional health, creative health, spiritual health? Because if you do that, it'll solve a problem. If you're writing down 10 ideas a day, you're not gonna just say to yourself, "Well, I was creative for the day, now I can watch TikTok videos for the rest of the day." You're gonna wanna do things. You're gonna get excited about some of your ideas.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Yeah. Um-
- 39:30 – 47:04
From idea lists to real experiments: Trump card game and ‘Buy Greenland’ crowdfunding
- JAJames Altucher
Like, like, like I'll tell you my idea list for today, okay?
- CWChris Williamson
Hit us. Hit us.
- JAJames Altucher
I've ... ha, have you ever ... um, this is a random one. It's not a good idea. (laughs) Like most ideas-
- CWChris Williamson
Disclaimer.
- JAJames Altucher
... are not good ideas.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. So I'm just trying to say, eh, that you, you come up with 10 ideas for the exercise, not to come up with good ideas. You'll-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
The good ideas will take care of themselves. But have you ever played the game Cards Against Humanity?
- CWChris Williamson
I bought it for me and my mum and my dad for Christmas, yes.
- JAJames Altucher
So, so, uh, I came up with this idea, I'm gonna make a card game, Trump, Trump Against Humanity. And so you have-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... all the cards are all of ... And, and then my 10 ideas were like the 10 rules.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JAJames Altucher
And so, and, and so you have all these cards that are, each card is, uh, Trump's tweets, and then there's another deck with all of the possible world situations-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
... uh, that could possibly happen.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And then everyone's gotta throw the tweet that matches it the best, and then the judge of that round picks the best Trump tweet that matches this world crisis. And so I wrote down all the words, and I even wrote down some execution ideas. Well, what would be my first three steps to, um, get this started? Anyone could steal this idea 'cause I think it's probably a bad idea.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And, uh, uh, you know, and then that was it. I was done with my, uh, 10 ideas a day, but then it didn't stop me from working. Then, uh, I started working on other articles that I needed to do. I, I made some business contacts. I made some, uh, uh, I'm starting an, uh, an email newsletter for some other project I'm working on. So I s- I just kept, kept going after that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JAJames Altucher
And now I'm on this podcast, which is very valuable to me, and thank you for once again for asking me on.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, thank you for being here. Uh, one of the things, uh, a quote from Naval Ravikant is that all of our problems at the moment are problems of abundance, not of scarcity. And you are, you, you mentioned earlier on you can't action on 3,650, uh, ideas per year. You can maybe do one or two of those if you've got some good resources and maybe a team with you.
- JAJames Altucher
Right.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you choo- how do you choose? You got these 3,650 ideas, James. I'm sw- I'm swimming in Post-it Notes here.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah. Well, uh, that's a great question because it, the, the, like most things, the answer's not totally simple, but it's not hard either. You're gonna ... Like let's say, let's say I liked this Trump against Humanity idea. Okay. Now I can, now maybe one execution idea is I can go to Fiverr, F-I, F-I-V-E-R-R, where you can hire people at very cheap prices from all over the world to do tasks for you, and I can say to somebody, "You know, g- give me a spreadsheet with all of Trump's tweets."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And then I can go on Fiverr and ... Or, or I could list myself. You know, "Come up with 500 world crisis situations." And then I can find someone who manufactures cards, and I can outsource to them making the cards. Okay. At any point in this process, if I realize, "You know what? This is not a very exciting idea," like your heart will tell you ... And by the way, now your creative, creativity muscle is active enough too, that will tell you. You'll realize halfway through, this is not a good idea. Like, "Oh, I can't figure out 500 world crisis situations," or, um, "It's too expensive to, to make these cards before I really know, so maybe I'll try a GoFundMe or something."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 47:04 – 50:03
Avoiding shiny-object addiction: explore vs. exploit, doubling down on what feels alive
- CWChris Williamson
How do you allow yourself to have this optionality whilst still sticking to the core things that you need to work on in life? Because you could potentially continue to chase shiny objects for a very, very long time.
- JAJames Altucher
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
Which would ... I, I don't know what your particular opinion is, but it's sort of common held productivity wisdom that you should have a, a, a balance between explore and exploit, right? And that the explore should only be a portion and the, the exploit should you be increasingly doubling down on the things that you find yourself to be good at. Do you disagree with that?
- JAJames Altucher
Yes. No, I agree with that. So, so for instance, if I'm experimenting with an idea and I'm like, "Oh, this feels good and I'm enjoying this," then I'll double down on it. Like, let's say I have an i- And, and I know you're asking also, there's, like, certain things you have to do, like your job, your work, y- make money, and so on. But let's say, hypothetically, I started writing a mystery novel, and after a page or two, I'm excited and I'm enjoying it, and I don't know if it's gonna be good or bad or whatever, but if I'm enjoying it, your, your heart is a compass and it will tell you what you should keep doing. So if you're enjoying something and, and it's, it, it ... And you're passing ... You don't seem to be hitting those thresholds at each point of when you should, should quit, then you just keep doing it. And, uh, that's usually how everyone ... every business I've ever started starts, is that, "Oh, I, I s- I have an idea for a business. Oh, I, I c- start implementing it. Oh, there's customers interested. Now I'm enjoying it. Maybe I'm gonna make money off of it," and I just keep going. You know, the podcast, I started a podcast. I did one, it was fun. I did two, it was fun. I started to get advertisers, now it's bringing in money. Uh, more people are showing up who want to be on the podcast. I hire people to help me. Oh, and I en- really enjoy it. I'm learning so much from it, so I just keep doing it. One thing, you know, you accelerate on the things you enjoy.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
But now let's say you, let's say you have a nine-to-five job, and l- let's say you have kids at home, and you know, you have the regular, uh, classic work day. When do you, when will you have time to do this? Well, first off, in a nine-to-five job...... and I've had nine-to-five jobs, everybody's had and every, many people still have. Uh, the average person, and there's studies on this, the average person works about two and a half hours a day at a nine-to-five job, but the rest of the time, they're kind of just like, you know, on social media, or they're taking a lunch break or a cigarette break or whatever. It's not, you know, that's average. Some people work more hours, some people work less. Uh, you know, but all the experiments I just described to you took me an hour at the most. You're incredibly productive, you're the, you're the most productive person in your workplace if you're working for five full hours. Um, that's still plenty of time to experiment on whatever it is you're experimenting on. I'll, can I tell you one more story? This could have been a business.
- CWChris Williamson
It is, it is, man. It is.
- 50:03 – 53:21
Rapid validation example: the ‘Going Steady’ app and killing ideas fast
- JAJames Altucher
So I had, I was at a dinner and there were two people at the dinner, a friend of mine was at the dinner I hadn't seen in a while, and he had, he brought his new girlfriend, and they were all, they were in their 40s, and they were all cute and cuddly. And I said, "Oh, things, sounds like things are going well for you guys." You know, I was just making conversation. And he said, "Yeah, we..." They're smiling. "Yeah, we just had the conversation. We decided to go steady." And I thought, that's such a weird phrase right now.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
Like, that's like a high school phrase.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
And, and so I asked him, like, "What does that really mean?" And, and he said, "Well, we're not... We, we, we deleted our dating apps from our phones." And so I thought to myself, on my idea list the next day, I was thinking of ideas for apps, and I said, "Oh, maybe there should be a going steady app where if you're gonna be going steady with somebody, you, you get the going, you each get the going steady app on your phone, you now connect with each other on the going steady app. It automatically deletes all the dating apps-"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
"... uh, from your phone, and it notifies-"
- CWChris Williamson
Updates your Facebook, uh, relationship status.
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah, all, all that stuff. And, and it, uh, it, it, it notifies the other person if they start downloading dating apps again.
- CWChris Williamson
No, fucking hell. That's-
- JAJames Altucher
So-
- CWChris Williamson
If you start liking booty pictures, if you start randomly following a bunch of people that are from, like, your area from the opposite sex.
- JAJames Altucher
So, so, see, like, these are... I, I didn't put those ideas down, but those could be ideas or those could be settings. Like you, you-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JAJames Altucher
... could decide how restrictive you wanna be with this going steady-
- CWChris Williamson
It's the most brutal, it's the most brutal-
- JAJames Altucher
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... dating app ever. Right, here we go. We're on, we're on, we're in idea generation now. Fuck the podcast, James.
- JAJames Altucher
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um, we-
- JAJames Altucher
So, but, but, but, but wait. Here, here's what I did though, is that then I, uh, the next day I wrote, uh, my idea list was 10 screens. Uh, I kind of sketched out 10 screens, uh, on this going steady app, and then I uploaded them to freelancer.com where I s- I wrote the whole spec of the app and put up these screens and I said, "What pr- what programmers out there can do this for me in the next two weeks?" And it's a reverse auction. So programmers from all over the world, Malaysia, India, China, wherever, they all were bidding to do it. And I had like 100 programmers from around the world bidding, like, within a half hour. And I just had one simple question, which is, can an, both an iPhone and an Android, can an app recognize what apps are also on the phone? 'Cause that's what the going steady app would have to do.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And, uh, the answer is for Android, yes, for iPhone, no. So that means this is not a good idea. I can't do this idea. So the whole thing, again, an hour's worth of my time for something that potentially could have been an amazing business-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
... who knows? And 'cause it's a very viral sort of business because it has that network effect built in.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
So it would've been probably a good idea. And, uh, but you physically can't do it with a iPhone, which is 70% of the US market. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
... boom. That was the end of that experiment. And, uh, but I generated a story. I gained knowledge. Every experiment, you gain knowledge. I learned something new about the iPhone.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 53:21 – 1:01:42
Playful idea generation: relationship labels and eccentric date-night creativity
- CWChris Williamson
I got you. Right. I wanna do idea generation because we've stumbled on something, probably the most important question that we've brought up so far, which is that there is not a acceptable term, there's not a term that I'm happy with for what it is when it's more serious than just sleeping with somebody and less serious than being in a relationship. There is going steady. I don't think... I mean, you, you know, that, to me, that's like courting, that's like your parents asking you if you're courting anyone or there's, in the UK, there's seeing somebody would be, would be the equivalent of, like, going steady. I just feel like...
- JAJames Altucher
Okay, here's, here's an idea. Here's an idea. If you're, um, e- e- e- let's say you're talking to a heterosexual man and you're, you're trying to figure out if, uh, i- if their girlfriend is, is, is it just dating? Is it more serious? Is it-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
... is it leading to marriage? Is it, uh, marriage? Uh, so what's somewhere in the middle? E- a good question is, and this comes from I think the TV show Seinfeld, is she a Saturday girl? Like on Saturday, are you expected to not make any other plans other than see her?
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Yeah. Well, one of the problems with that is there is another subcategory within the people that I'm talking about who are people that have Sunday boyfriends, and that's a boyfriend that they only have on a Sunday. So you see, you've subverted-
- JAJames Altucher
Ah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you've subverted the, the, the Saturday girl thing, not that you're supposed to be there on a Saturday, this is a mark of how highly I hold you in regard, it's I only want you on a Sunday. There's fuck all else happening. Let's get popcorn and Netflix.
- JAJames Altucher
But, but what, what is that person doing on Saturday night?
- CWChris Williamson
Probably trying to find a-
- JAJames Altucher
Is she-
- CWChris Williamson
... probably trying to find a leveled up Sunday girlfriend.
- JAJames Altucher
Right. So that's what I mean. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. Okay, yeah, yeah.
- JAJames Altucher
... in your... A, the, the Saturday girl's more serious than the Sunday boyfriend or the Sunday girlfriend.
- CWChris Williamson
That's only, that's only because they're prioritizing Saturday over Sunday. Although to be fair, to be fair, there's more stuff happening on a Saturday, isn't there?
- JAJames Altucher
Right. Tu-
- CWChris Williamson
There's more competition for your time on a Saturday.
- JAJames Altucher
... right, it's not, the world prioritizes Friday and Saturday nights as date nights. Like, if s- if, if you're going out seriously with, with somebody and she says on a Saturday night, and you just don't hear from her about Saturday night-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
... and she never communicates that, you're th- you're going to think to yourself, "Well, what's g-" A- a- an- and if you think you're serious, you're gonna think to yourself, "Well, what's she doing on a Saturday night?" Because there's nothing else to do if you're, uh, then, I mean, there is so many things to do, but you'll think, be thinking, "She must be going out to meet somebody else."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
So-
- CWChris Williamson
You've got to be doing something. Okay, so idea generation time. I'm in New York this weekend. I'm not. I'm in New York this weekend and I want to take a girl out on Saturday night. What is a slightly different eccentric sort of date idea?
- JAJames Altucher
So, so by the way, that's a great question because, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
(clears throat)
- JAJames Altucher
... and again, that's worthy of idea generation because you don't want to just do dinner and a walk. That's like what everyone does. You kind of want to do something interesting. And there's lots, there's a, a spectrum of ways you can do this. Uh, so for instance, some basic ideas, uh, y- you know, in New York, there are, there's a, a, a ping pong club called Spin. Uh, I, it's a little bit different for most people to go and say, on a date and play ping pong. But I have found that to be a very successful technique because usually they've never, usually most people have never gone to play ping pong on a date.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
And a- at the ping pong place, there's dinner, there's drinks, it's a whole club. There's music and there's ping pong. And, uh, you know, New York City also, there's, there's, th- for whatever you're interested in, there's something to do.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JAJames Altucher
So, y- you know, you could go to a bar that has disco dancing. You could go to a comedy show. You could go to, uh, uh, a haunted house experience. You can go to an escape room.
Episode duration: 1:01:43
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Transcript of episode 99RhLRen66M
