Jay Morton - Building A Special Forces Mindset | Modern Wisdom Podcast 246

1. 0:00 – 1:53

   Intro

   1. JMJay Morton0:00

      Everest is... It's a big misconception for some people, because a lot of people think that because of the amount of people that go up and caliber of people that go up, it's an easy thing to do. And coming from someone who's done a lot of difficult things in their life, Everest is by no means an easy feat. It just seems to attract people who can afford it because it comes with a very high price tag, and you do end up with a lot of dross on the mountain which doesn't give it a very good reputation. It's six weeks of living at altitude. If you stand up and walk 10 meters at sea level, it's fine, right? You don't think about it. But if you're at 6,000, 7,000 meters in the sky and you stand up and walk 10 meters, you're taking a couple of steps, stopping, breathing, taking a couple of steps, stopping, breathing. So like everything that you deemed easy at sea level is magnified in difficulty the further up you go. (whoosh)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:51

      Jay, welcome to the show.

   3. JMJay Morton0:53

      How's it going, Chris? You good?

   4. CWChris Williamson0:55

      Very well. I'm in Dubai. Now how could I not be well? I do need to hold my hands up for everyone that is watching on YouTube. Yes, I'm wearing a vest. Yes, I caught a little bit of sun today, tiny little bit, just a bit flush, right? But I haven't seen sunshine for like six months, so give me a break. I've also got you currently, Jay, you're balanced on an upturned bin, uh, in my hotel room.

   5. JMJay Morton1:17

      (laughs)

   6. CWChris Williamson1:17

      And I'm doing this after tethering to my phone on roaming data, so God knows how much this is going to cost, but it's more than worth it. So thank you very much for coming on, man.

   7. JMJay Morton1:26

      Too easy. Yeah, you never see what's in the background, do you, of what you've got -

   8. CWChris Williamson1:29

      Chaos.

   9. JMJay Morton1:29

      ... I was gonna say, man. Where you've just got to balance your phone and, and whatever's going on in the background, so yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:35

       Absolute chaos, mate. It's just a-

   11. JMJay Morton1:37

       And you're a northerner too, you're a fellow northerner, so don't do well in the sun.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:42

       Look, I- I've got two ginger parents, but thankfully...

   13. JMJay Morton1:44

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson1:44

       I don't think I've fully inherited their skin. But you're totally right, man, when you're from Winterfell, you, you don't tan, don't tan exactly well.

   15. JMJay Morton1:51

       Exactly. You just, you go white. You just seem to go

2. 1:53 – 4:58

   Special Forces or Everest

   1. JMJay Morton1:53

      white.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:53

      Yeah. And that leads me quite nicely into talking about the temperature, leads me quite nicely into something I wanted to ask, which is which is more difficult, the selection process for Special Forces or climbing Everest twice?

   3. JMJay Morton2:06

      Um, I have to say climbing Everest. Um, selection, you know, six months... SA selection just seems to... It's drawn out over six months, right? And when you start, you're already a, you're already a seasoned soldier. Like for me, I've done one tour of Iraq and two tours of Afghanistan. So you almost get to that stage where you, you want to prove yourself as, as a soldier. And I was, you know, 24 years old, like full of testosterone. Um, so like you go on selection with a bunch of other lads and you're all, you know, you've got this unified kind of cause that you're all trying to... that you're all going for at the same time. Um, and I actually enjoyed selection for that reason. Um, because you meet, you know, you end up all, all... You know, you start with maybe 150, 170 people. Um, after the first three weeks, you're kind of down to 50, and then after the next six weeks, you, you're kind of down to maybe 20, 25 people. And these 20, 25 people have been through, through absolute shit. So you end up forming this like super tight bond where you're all really close and, and all really clicky. And then you get to the end of selection after that six months, you get given your stable belt and your beret, and you get like a picture took, uh, next to the clock tower. You shake everyone's hand and then you disappear into whatever regiment and squadrons that you go to. Uh, and then the next day, you're kind of big boys rules into the, into the mix.

   4. CWChris Williamson3:43

      Thrown into the lion's den.

   5. JMJay Morton3:46

      Yeah, and I remember, I remember turning up day one and... Like I was 24, like it's quite a young age to pass selection, and um, like the rest of the guys in my troop were all kind of... I mean, some of them were touching 40 years old. So as a 24-year-old turning into... turning up into this, this SAS troop with a load of 40-year-olds, even like the guy who came in two years before me, he was like, you know, two, three years ahead of me. And uh, like they're all like big guys, like big kind of men with like gray hair and stuff and...

   6. CWChris Williamson4:17

      Big hands.

   7. JMJay Morton4:18

      ... yeah, quite-

   8. CWChris Williamson4:18

      Massive hands.

   9. JMJay Morton4:20

      Massive hands. Like...

   10. CWChris Williamson4:21

       (laughs)

   11. JMJay Morton4:21

       You know, we had... Billy was one of our, um, one of our senior sergeants at the time, and you know, he was like a, you know, ex, ex kind of football hooligan from London and just covered in like skull tattoos and...

   12. CWChris Williamson4:36

       (laughs)

   13. JMJay Morton4:37

       ... and uh, like flames up his arm and stuff.

   14. CWChris Williamson4:39

       Very welcoming.

   15. JMJay Morton4:40

       So turned... Like, yeah, we actually went to, to Norway on our first exercise, and I ended up spending it, spending the whole, uh, six weeks living in a tent with him. So yeah, (laughs) we got on quite well.

   16. CWChris Williamson4:52

       Very cozy after a while, yeah.

   17. JMJay Morton4:54

       Yeah, as it turns out, he was the nicest guy there.

   18. CWChris Williamson4:57

       That's awesome, man.

3. 4:58 – 8:47

   Everest

   1. CWChris Williamson4:58

      Yeah. And how does that relate to Everest then?

   2. JMJay Morton5:01

      Yeah, so like Everest is... Everest is like quite a big... it's a big misconception for some people, um, because a lot of people think that because of the amount of people that go up and, and the caliber of people that go up, it's an easy thing to do. And coming from someone who's done a lot of difficult things in their life, Everest is by no means an easy feat. It just seems to attract people who can afford it because it comes with a very high price tag.

   3. CWChris Williamson5:31

      Mm-hmm.

   4. JMJay Morton5:31

      So it kind of attracts a certain caliber of people.

   5. CWChris Williamson5:35

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JMJay Morton5:35

      Um, and you do end up with a lot of, a lot of dross on the mountain, which doesn't give it a very, uh, good reputation. But Everest is more... It's six weeks of living at altitude. So if you think like altitude just basically takes away energy from you. So if you stand up and walk 10 meters...... at sea level, it's fine, right? You don't think about it. But if you're, uh, you know, 6,000, 7,000 meters in the sky and you stand up and walk 10 meters, you know, you're taking a couple of steps, stopping, breathing, taking a couple of steps, stopping, breathing. So like, everything that you deemed easy at sea level is magnified in difficulty the further up you go, to the point of, on your summit push, when, you know, if you think of your summit push, it's, it's quite ... Just to give a picture of, of kind of the severity of it, you do like an acclim- you, you get up to base camp, you do an acclimatization, which takes five days or, or six days. You come back down, you rest at base camp, which is at 5,600 meters, and then you kind of sit there and look at the, the weather windows, um, and you get, you always get one weather window to summit, which is clear skies, you know, minimal wind. You sometimes get two weather windows, and you rarely get three. So, it's this balance of looking at all your weather, weather systems and speaking to the right people around the camps and finding out what's going on. 'Cause like, you've invested all this time, right? You've invested like, the last three weeks of living at altitude, eating shit food, um, you know, shitting into a hole in the ground (laughs) every morning, living in a tent-

   7. CWChris Williamson7:25

      A frozen, a frozen hole in the ground.

   8. JMJay Morton7:27

      ... a fro ... Like, y- you're li- it's like clockwork every morning, and-

   9. CWChris Williamson7:30

      (laughs)

   10. JMJay Morton7:31

       ... you know, your only entertainment is the game of cards that you play at night in the tent, and you, by this time, you're sick of lunch and meat and rice. Um, so, you've invested all this energy and time into making the right decision and getting to the, you know, getting h- high up and summiting in the, in the right weather window, 'cause if you don't, that's it, you know? You only get one shot at summiting. And, um, you kind of set off at camp three on your summit push, so you'll leave camp three, which is 7,000 meters, um, and there's four camps till summit. So you go camp three, 7,000 meters, leave there at 5:00 AM on oxygen. You climb up to camp four, arrive at camp four, say, 4:00 PM, so that's a full day to get there. Camp four is 8,000 meters, so you rest there in a tent for, you know, six hours. You try and get some sleep, you, you get some hot water on, you cook some food, um, and then you leave that night at 8:00 PM to summit the first light, so, you know, 6:00 AM, 7:00 AM in the morning, and then you've got all that day to come all the way back down to camp two, which you get to camp two at, say, like I got there about 9:00 PM. So,

4. 8:47 – 10:58

   Altitude

   1. JMJay Morton8:47

      5:00 PM-

   2. CWChris Williamson8:47

      So, 15-hour day at ridiculous altitude.

   3. JMJay Morton8:51

      Yeah. So you start 5:00 AM, it's like two days basically, just constantly with no sleep, minimal water. Um, at that altitude, your body doesn't work the same, so you don't j- digest food, um, so I was literally living off like, the little energy sachets that like, cyclists and, and triathletes and that use, which obviously then, you know, I ended up with that just all over my hands, just like, sticky and it just leaks out into your pockets. Every time you put your hand in your pocket, your hand gets stuck. Um, y- y- you're not drinking as much water just 'cause you're constantly needing to move and kind of beyond camp four up to the summit, it, it's, your, your body's kind of that drained and tired and exhausted. It's simply just that one foot in front of the other, that slow kind of monotonous like, tap, tap, tap, and then you kind of, you just see everyone doing it, everyone kind of puts their arm, like the- their elbows on their, their legs and like ... 'cause you're on like a steep hill and just, (exhales loudly) just gives it like a few couple of puffs of breath and just composes themselves before they s- they set off again. Um, and then you get to the top and then coming down is even worse 'cause it's steep ground. And then you've got this, this mass of people that are coming down at the same time, so you, you know, you're trying to work your way through all these people for like the next, for the next 17 ... So you summit at 6:00 AM. I'm not, I'm no good at math. Summit at 6:00 AM, get back down for 10:00 PM. So what's that? 16, 14 hours of walking downhill where your toes are just hitting the front of your boots for 14 hours (laughs) to the point you, you know, you start walking sideways-

   4. CWChris Williamson10:38

      (laughs)

   5. JMJay Morton10:39

      ... then you turn to the other side and then you start walking backwards.

   6. CWChris Williamson10:41

      Backwards, yeah. (laughs)

   7. JMJay Morton10:42

      Yeah. You just ... Like, like, I've been exhausted and tired and like, fatigued and so many times in like, my military career, but like, you're never that fatigued and exhausted that, that you are on Everest.

5. 10:58 – 13:42

   Support Structure

   1. CWChris Williamson10:59

      It seems like a big part of that is the camaraderie that you had and the support structure from when you were doing Special Forces selection. I guess as well, like, if you've ... in thin air and it's really cold and you're on a thin ridge, it's like, first off, you're spread out. Second, you've got to save your breath to be able to focus on the few bodily functions that your physiology is still able to do. Uh, whereas, as you said, during your special, Special Forces, you're, you're really able, you've got this sort of unity that, that binds you all together and makes maybe the suffering a, a little bit less, uh, solo.

   2. JMJay Morton11:34

      Yeah, a little bit. I think, you know, for a start, you're at sea level, so that makes things way easier. Um, yeah, like, y- y- I guess when you're at sea level and you're doing the things that you're doing in the Special Forces, you always know where the end is. And the end's usually quite comfortable. So, say you deploy on an operation that is anything from, you know, 10 hours, 12 hours on a night raid, or you go out for a week and live in a building and, and put an OP in or whatever it is. And you always know at the end of that, you take enough food, you take enough water-... you know, y- y- you're warm, you've taken enough, um, you know, sleeping equipment or, uh, enough jackets and warm clothing that you're gonna be, you're gonna be semi-comfortable, right? There might be a little bit of hardship. You might be walking in with some, some weight and some kit, you do the job, you extract whatever it is. Um, but you know at the end of that week, actually unless the job or mission changes, you're gonna come back to base or wherever it is that you, you live. Whether you're in the UK, you come back, you're probably, you know, having beers with the boys at the weekend or whatever. Or if it's... If you're overseas, you know, you're coming back to a camp, you de-kit in, you go for steak and eggs in the morning, you're gonna get back in the gym. Um, whereas, like, on Everest, it's like (laughs) you, you set off on that summit window and, and that rotation on that summit window is seven days. So you leave- (laughs) ... base camp- (laughs) you leave, you leave base camp with a rucksack. And you come back in seven days with that same rucksack. And, um, and you, y- you know, you're not coming back to steak and eggs, and beers with the boys, and a warm shower. You're literally... I mean, y- you know, you come back to a, a hot water, you know, a hot bucket of water and a, a little bit of leftover, like, shampoo that you took- A slightly bigger- ...

   3. CWChris Williamson13:27

      A slightly bigger hole in the ground to have a poop in.

   4. JMJay Morton13:30

      Yeah. Well, everyone's just been, like, filling it in whilst you've been gone-

   5. CWChris Williamson13:33

      Oh, God.

   6. JMJay Morton13:33

      ... so it's, like, overflowing, which is just-

   7. CWChris Williamson13:34

      Oh, no. No, no, no. Make it...

   8. JMJay Morton13:36

      (laughs)

   9. CWChris Williamson13:37

      Please make it stop. Ah, man.

   10. JMJay Morton13:39

       It's not like that hotel room in Dubai, I tell you, that's it.

   11. CWChris Williamson13:41

       This is... It's,

6. 13:42 – 14:16

   Respect Is Earned

   1. CWChris Williamson13:42

      it is lovely out here. So we're talking about your new book today, which will be out-

   2. JMJay Morton13:45

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson13:46

      ... when this episode is live. What does Respect Is Earned mean?

   4. JMJay Morton13:51

      Um, so kind of the book is just, you know, it's, it's to just say, like, this is my 14 years of military experience in the Special Forces, in the Paras, and I've just put all that knowledge and experience into the book. And it's, it's essentially that, right? It's read this book and respect is earned. It's like, do the hard stuff through my military career, and it's like that is how you gain respect.

7. 14:16 – 17:21

   The Four Tenets Of The Special Forces

   1. JMJay Morton14:16

   2. CWChris Williamson14:16

      I understand. Let's go through the four tenets of the Special Forces. I thought this was really interesting.

   3. JMJay Morton14:21

      Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so you've got relentless pursuit for excellence. Um, so that is, you know, if you think of, like, values that you live your life by, the Special Forces has those. And first one's r- relentless pursuit of excellence, and, you know, it should be something that we should be searching for every day within the Special Forces, whether it's whatever we're doing, whether it's shooting, we're always trying to get better at shooting, whether it's, you know, surveillance, OPs. Whatever it is that we're doing, we need to always be searching for that level of excellence. And, like, obviously you never get to that le- y- you know, you never get to that level that is excellence, but that constant progression of just keep chipping away at whatever it is you're doing, whether it's in the gym, whether it's at home, whether it's... whatever it is, to just be a, a better human being and, and better in the job that you're doing. And that's kind of the first one. Uh, the second one is, uh, honor and humility. So, um, kind of humility's a massive one in the, in the Special Forces. Um, do you know, it's... I mean, even, like, I, I remember bumping into a load of, uh, SBS lads when I was in the Paras, and the first thing that came across was, you know, you had these, these guys. They were, they were men, they were, like, 40-odd years old, like, big dudes and that. But they were like the soundest guys ever. And they came and found us, looked after us, and we played volleyball, and they bought us a load of beers. And, um, do you know, just that it doesn't matter what you do in your career and where you've been, it's like you still have that humble approach which will keep you hungry and will keep you always wanting to improve. And then honor is, you know, as it says, it's, it's having honour in what you do, and honor of the people that you work with, and honor of the job that you're doing. Um, and then discipline. Discipline goes without saying. Um, it is, you know, it's one of the most important things that a soldier needs to have is discipline. You know, it's, it's no, um, hidden secret that, you know, soldiers are people that... Or if you're on a job or on a, a task, you're getting up early, you're doing things that aren't necessarily comfortable things to do. Um, or aren't very natural things to do. Um, and that requires a lot of discipline, a lot of self-discipline, um, to be, you know, to, to be that, that best cohesive team unit that you can be. Um, and I've had a mind slip. What's the fourth one?

   4. CWChris Williamson17:02

      (laughs) I haven't got them written down, mate, so w- we can leave it at three. We can leave it at three.

   5. JMJay Morton17:07

      I'm trying to think, what is the fourth one? What is the fourth one? There is. Yeah, we'll leave it at three.

   6. CWChris Williamson17:11

      Three it is now. That's fine.

   7. JMJay Morton17:13

      We can come back to it.

   8. CWChris Williamson17:13

      The fourth one's obviously not that important.

   9. JMJay Morton17:14

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson17:15

       I also-

   11. JMJay Morton17:15

       They, they've changed it.

   12. CWChris Williamson17:16

       Yeah, they've ch- this is the new... This is the Jay Morton version of the, the four tenets.

   13. JMJay Morton17:20

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson17:20

       Um,

8. 17:21 – 18:52

   How The SAS Works

   1. CWChris Williamson17:21

      I didn't realize that the SAS was split up into four squadrons with four troops within each. Can you just take us through how this works, and the, the personalities that you explain about that?

   2. JMJay Morton17:33

      Um, yeah. So you've got kind of different teams within, um, this... any Special Forces unit. Um, and then those teams are, are broken down into, into individual skill sets. Um, and kind of the skill sets are, um, air, so anything that is, um, in the air, so helicopters. Mainly kind of, uh, parachuting and being a subject matter e- expert in, in parachuting. Um, boats, so anything that's, that's to do with water. Um, and then you've got mobility, which is land vehicles, so motorbikes, quads, off-road vehicles, 4x4s, all that kind of stuff. And then you've got mountain, which is what I was, which is...... anything to do with the mountains. Um, so above the snow line, so you've got kind of Arctic warfare and, you know, stuff in kind of, you know, the Scandinavian countries, that kind of stuff, and then that kind of filters over into kind of a, a more, like a rope work kind of, um, like a rope access kind of thing, to try and not put too much detail on it, if that makes sense. To try and keep it as bland as possible as, as that, that sits.

   3. CWChris Williamson18:49

      Yeah. I understand.

9. 18:52 – 19:58

   Coolest Operation

   1. CWChris Williamson18:53

      What's the coolest operation that you can tell us about?

   2. JMJay Morton18:57

      Um, do you know, like, I don't, I don't know, like coolest is probably like the, not, not the word I'd use. But like the, the w- there's a few that really stick out, um, and a few things that I, I kind of ticked off whilst I was serving that, again, I can't, I can't talk about. But, um, there was one, one job on a, on an IED factory. It was, it was a daytime raid on an IE- so an IED is an improvised explosive device, um, so it's, it's like a homemade bomb that the, um, the enemy would use against us. So, um, it could be anything, so it would be anything that is homemade and they'd, you know, the, the, the main way of using it would be sticking it in a, in the ground, covering it with dirt, you walk over it, it blows up. Um, and we hit a factory that was, that was making these on a, on a mass scale. Um, (laughs) and I kind of don't (laughs) , I kind of don't want to go too much into the detail about because it's, um-

   3. CWChris Williamson19:57

      I understand.

10. 19:58 – 24:40

    Crazy Western Movie

    1. CWChris Williamson19:58

    2. JMJay Morton19:58

       ... we basically had-

    3. CWChris Williamson19:59

       Operational secrecy, yeah.

    4. JMJay Morton20:01

       ... yeah, we basically had nine guys on it, and, um, (laughs) it was anything. It, it almost reminded me of like a crazy Western movie, um, when we kind of landed the helicopters, uh, next to the compound and, um, I was with a, a team of Afghans and we, we come running off the back of this helicopter (laughs) and a few of the, few of the guys from the factory just like legged it from the factory.

    5. CWChris Williamson20:27

       (laughs)

    6. JMJay Morton20:27

       And, um, they took their chances and just like ran, and, um, (laughs) I was like the first man out. It was only like, I think there was only a few of us, um, few of us, uh, British, and, um, these Afghans just started firing over my head and I literally just, I could feel like bullets just whizzing past me.

    7. CWChris Williamson20:47

       Whooshing past.

    8. JMJay Morton20:47

       I literally just, literally turned around and just said, "Stop firing. Stop Firing."

    9. CWChris Williamson20:52

       (laughs)

    10. JMJay Morton20:52

        "You're going to shoot one of us." (laughs) It was, it was like a, a crazy Western film. Um, but no, that was, do, do you know what? That sticks out as one of the, one of the, one of the best jobs I, I did, probably because the impact it had on, on the local area in terms of, you know, the IED, the numbers of IEDs that were hidden. British troops that were operating in the area went substantially down, um, and we got, you know, nine of the, the guys that were making these, um, IEDs at the same time. So that, for me, sticks out massively. There's a few others that I won't go into too much detail about, um-

    11. CWChris Williamson21:30

        Yeah. I understand. The MO, the MOD wouldn't be happy but, uh, uh, it's so cool to see where, um, when the Special Forces are deployed to cut off at the knees an operation which obviously down the line will be hurting local Afghans, it will be meant to attack other British forces and, and other foreign sort of forces that are out there. So yeah, I can totally see why that would be something that you'd be proud of. Another one, again, (laughs) this might be an MOD dance around. When were you the most scared during your service? Is there anything that comes to mind which you can tell us about?

    12. JMJay Morton22:05

        Um, probably when those (laughs) , uh, bullets were flying past me.

    13. CWChris Williamson22:08

        (laughs) That's perfect. That's- (laughs)

    14. JMJay Morton22:11

        Um, it's just, what like, fear is like one of the weird, fear is like one of those weird things when you, when you're operating in that kind of environment. Um, and it like, it can, it can come and go at like the most randomest of times, and, and you generally, you know, you go overseas for six months at a time and, you know, after, after a while you almost, you almost, you, you change how you deal with things in your own head. You find like ways of just coping with whatever's going on. And I, I don't mean that in a negative way or anything, if, if anything it's a positive way. Um, but you kind of just, like fear doesn't really appear as much as, I don't know, you go, y- y- you could go through like a... 'Cause like soldiers are really good at coping with fear with h- with humor. Um, and a lot of some of the scariest moments that, that I would say are the scariest moments, right? If you took a normal person and threw, threw them in that situation-

    15. CWChris Williamson23:15

        Mm-hmm.

    16. JMJay Morton23:16

        ... like you, you seem to cope very well with it, with, with a lot of humor. And, um, yeah, I can remember kind of a few times when, and this was going back to kind of my days in the Parachute Regiment in Three Para and, you know, I remember one day when we just got opened up on and, you know, you're almost seeing, you're seeing like rounds hitting like walls and the floor around where you, where you are, and you know, whether it's, you know, the Taliban didn't have their, their weapon zero that day or, you know, something else was looking after you, you know, you don't end up with a bullet in you, um, but you're so close to it. Um, and there's, you know, there's a, a few situations like that. But again, it's like, (laughs) you know, we just can't, you know, when that happened and we got opened up on it in, you know, point blank range, we literally just ran around this corner and just all started laughing-

    17. CWChris Williamson24:13

        (laughs)

    18. JMJay Morton24:13

        ... with each other. (laughs) And it's, I, I, it's just a g- I, I don't know, it's like whether there's a lesson there that-... you know, the best way of just dealing with fear is just with humor.

    19. CWChris Williamson24:26

        (laughs)

    20. JMJay Morton24:26

        And it's like, d'you know, it's like one of those reactions, right, of something happens and, like, people instantly smile, and it's like you, you know, if you, if you look at that situation, you probably shouldn't be smiling, but you-

    21. CWChris Williamson24:38

        (laughs)

    22. JMJay Morton24:38

        ... you do. You just, you just seem to, to laugh

11. 24:40 – 27:23

    Fear and Humor

    1. JMJay Morton24:40

       about it.

    2. CWChris Williamson24:40

       I know. I wonder what it is. I wonder whether fear and humor are somewhere along the same sort of line. But th- there's a bit of an archetype there, right? You know, the, the crazy soldier who is able to laugh off, "Ha, but it was a scratch." You know, like that kind of, like, classic stiff upper lip British thing.

    3. JMJay Morton25:01

       Yeah, like, like, I've seen some, like, I've seen lads get shot and they're just laughing and smiling, and probably happier than they would be if they hadn't have been shot.

    4. CWChris Williamson25:11

       What?

    5. JMJay Morton25:11

       Like, not, not, not on impact, right? And you, I might have, you know... 'Cause, like, everything happens quite fast in, in, in fight and combat, right?

    6. CWChris Williamson25:21

       Mm-hmm.

    7. JMJay Morton25:21

       You generally... You know, if you think how fast a round flies, and as soon as that goes out the gun, it's straight into someone's body, and that's a very quick, um, situation to happen. So then, don't have time for fear to evolve, so you're thinking, like, "Fuck, right, I'm gonna grab this guy, drag him into some cover, sort him out, administer first aid, and then we need to, we need to extract him, extract him back to a, a s- like, a, a point where he can be picked up and taken to, to, um, to safety and, and be seen by, like, a proper medical professional." Um, so, like, there's no time there for fear to, to overcome, if that makes sense.

    8. CWChris Williamson26:03

       Mm-hmm.

    9. JMJay Morton26:04

       Um, so yeah, it's like... But yeah, I've seen kind of, d'you know, even, even guys that have lost limbs, and I don't mean o- on impact that it's happened, but, you know, you've got to be able to, to deal with it with humor. And, um, I'd like to actually remember one incident, um, and I won't go into too much detail about it, but, um, one of the guys ended up getting a, a shotgun through his knee, um, by accident, and, um, that ruined him. Like, probably, you know, you know, made a mess of this guy's career. And, um, I remember everyone just started taking the piss out of him.

    10. CWChris Williamson26:42

        (laughs)

    11. JMJay Morton26:42

        The guy that, that accidentally discharged this shotgun into this guy's knee. And I remember chatting to him. Uh, uh, I think we were in a car driving, driving to London or something, and I was chatting to him, and he was like... I thought, like, you know, "How do you feel about it?" Whatever. And he's like, "The best thing that, that happened was that people took the piss out of him." He was like, "If no one took the piss out of me, then I'd, I would have felt that I've done something seriously wrong. But 'cause everyone's just took the piss out of me and, like, made jokes and sent out, you know, memes and, and pictures on, um, on WhatsApp groups, like, I feel, I just feel, like, better about the whole situation."

12. 27:23 – 29:30

    Seth Godin

    1. JMJay Morton27:24

    2. CWChris Williamson27:24

       There's, uh, examples similar to that that I had with Seth Godin. So I was recording with him a couple of weeks ago, and similar to today with you, I was having a nightmare with connections. He needed to change his and I needed to change mine, and we were on a really tight time schedule as well. And he did s- he had made such a classy move when we came back on, so after all of the connections had gone out and then we, we logged back onto the call and we were about to get going, when we first called him, before he even said hello, "Is everything sorted?" or anything, he just told me a joke. Like a really shit dad joke.

    3. JMJay Morton27:54

       (laughs)

    4. CWChris Williamson27:54

       Like awful, awful, like, totally terrible. But any, any tension between me and a 20-times bestselling author and Marketing Hall of Fame member-

    5. JMJay Morton28:04

       Yeah.

    6. CWChris Williamson28:04

       ... Seth Godin, this absolute-

    7. JMJay Morton28:07

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson28:08

       ... titan of, of internet fame was gone in a second. So I definitely think that there's-

    9. JMJay Morton28:12

       Yeah.

    10. CWChris Williamson28:12

        ... there's an interesting lesson to take away from that, like the use that humor has for all of us, especially to dissuade pressure and tension and, and fear, you know, before someone's about to go on stage to give a good speech, a big speech or before you're about to go and, uh, do a pitch or a job interview or perform or d- you know, do anything. I, I think that there's definitely an argument to be made that if you've got a couple of shit jokes in your pocket that you can just deploy on demand, I reckon that they would be really useful.

    11. JMJay Morton28:45

        But it's, it's so true, right? It i- you know, they do, they do say that like, the, the cleverest people have the highest IQs. Oh, not... Sorry, the, the funniest people. There's a, there's a correlation between, like, clever people and, and funny people.

    12. CWChris Williamson28:58

        Funny people. Absolutely.

    13. JMJay Morton28:59

        Um, that's why I'm not there. But, um-

    14. CWChris Williamson29:01

        (laughs)

    15. JMJay Morton29:03

        ... but yeah, there is. There's, there's, there's definitely... 'Cause, like, we're all the same person, right? We all eat, we all shit, we all do all that stuff. And you get... I dunno, you build that perception. It's like you might have had with Seth. Um, you, you put them on, you put people like that on a pedestal, and it's like, it's like we're all just the same person and, you know, we can all tell a shit dad joke.

    16. CWChris Williamson29:29

        (laughs)

13. 29:30 – 36:23

    Discipline

    1. CWChris Williamson29:30

    2. JMJay Morton29:30

       (laughs)

    3. CWChris Williamson29:30

       My dad, my dad absolutely can. Okay, so the book, the book's called Soldier, and that's a- an acronym for a bunch of, bunch of things that go underneath it, the first one being SELF. And you call discipline the first effective habit. Have you got any tips on how people can cultivate their discipline? Obviously we're in the middle, in the UK at least, of a, a brand new lockdown, and people may be thinking, "This is a time where I can either let my habits go one of two ways." What can people do to cultivate that discipline?

    4. JMJay Morton29:57

       Yeah, like, it's quite important now, right, during this second lockdown phase that... Like, I've, I've, you know, I, I had this thought during the first lockdown phase that, like, "I'm not gonna let this time just waste, just waste away and slip out under me," and, and, you know, all I can say that I've done, done during lockdown was watch some Netflix documentaries and, and, um, and box sets, and, and that's it. Um, and it's, like, important that people just focus on, on, like, what's important to them and...... you know, just without- just going too- without digressing too far off that discipline thing, um, I just said, like, last lockdown, "I want to improve my fitness, my education, and my family." And, like, fitness is- is pretty simple, right? You- you know, you do whatever exercise routine, you go for a run, you pick up something that you're gonna get better at. Um, education, it was like, "Right, I'm gonna learn some new stuff." I started trying to play- play the guitar. Um, started listening to more podcasts, audiobooks, started reading, started researching stuff that I'm interested in. And then family was like, like, speak to my family more often, make sure that they're safe, um, speak to a friend at least one- once a day, like, chat to people that... 'Cause you get off that conversation, you feel better

    5. CWChris Williamson31:11

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JMJay Morton31:11

       If you- you feel better than you did when you went on. Um, but yeah, like discipline, uh, going back to discipline, it's- you know, like, I think I always say it's, like, your choice to be more disciplined. Um, and you can- you can- you can read books and you can listen to podcats- podcasts and stuff for motivation, but essentially you've got to make the choice that- that you want more discipline in your life. Um, and once you've made that choice, then you've just got to implement things in there that gives you discipline. And that might just be, you know, just setting an alarm clock. You know, if you're off work at the minute and you just don't set an alarm clock and you wake up at nine o'clock, just set that alarm clock for 7:00 or 8:00 or whatever it is and just get up with an alarm clock every day. And then try and make that alarm clock earlier. Like, at the minute, I'm trying to get up at 6:00, 6:30 'cause it's starting to get light and just start doing stuff. Like, go out for a walk and just commit to going out for a walk. And then, you know, commit to an exercise regime, commit to reading one book every, like, every month. Just start, like, trying to set yourself these small tasks. I read in a book once, um, and this guy was trying to talk about discipline, and he- he said, you know, one thing, he said just if you put a plate in the- in the- in the- in the, um, in the sink, every time you put a plate in the sink or anything, wash it, and just don't leave it there. And it's, like, these little, like, hacks or tricks or tips that you do every day build discipline into your life, and that- those small ones then flow into the bigger ones that you- that you need discipline for, whether it's training for a marathon, whether it's researching for a job interview or- or whatever it is. These little ones feed into it.

    7. CWChris Williamson32:57

       Yeah. How you do anything is how you do everything. Um-

    8. JMJay Morton33:01

       I love that saying, Chris.

    9. CWChris Williamson33:02

       One of the- one of the things that I used as a little tip for people, and it's timely for me to remind everyone who's listening of it again, the best heuristic I found to make sure that you stay on track during lockdown by having a plan is to ask yourself now, "What would have had to have happened by the end of lockdown for me to look back on lockdown and consider it a success?"

    10. JMJay Morton33:28

        Mm-hmm.

    11. CWChris Williamson33:29

        Just after this podcast finishes, like, just take a little bit of time and think about it, or do it as me and Jay continue to chat shit to each other. Just think, like, what would have had to have happened by the end of this period for you to look back on it and it be a success? So for me, I have a- a target for the podcast, I want to hit 100,000 subs on YouTube before Christmas. If I do that and if everything else continues to tick over, I'll be happy. That's one thing. Last time, it was like I wanted to build a website and- and start a newsletter and, um, record three times a week. Like, that was it.

    12. JMJay Morton34:00

        Mm-hmm.

    13. CWChris Williamson34:00

        And, uh, i- it's easy for us to get caught up believing that we should do more, could have done more. When you don't have a tightly defined target, it always feels like you've missed, because you're always-

    14. JMJay Morton34:13

        Yeah.

    15. CWChris Williamson34:13

        ... gonna feel like you could have done more, woulda, shoulda, coulda. And like I say, that's- that's my- that's my best question for everyone who's listening who's thinking about that. So next- next up is opportunity, and you lay out a three-stage process for opportunities. Would you be able to take us through that?

    16. JMJay Morton34:30

        Yeah, so this- the three-stage process is encounter, recognize, and exploit. So encounter is all about putting yourself in that position where you can, um, encounter those, um, opportunities. So that's, like, how you've got your life set up, right? Um, for me, you know, the biggest one was going into the military 'cause I put myself in a position where I could experience other things and other experiences, and that- you know, that put me in a position to, uh, be around people that had gone on selection and been in the Special Forces. And- and that's when that, you know, although you volunteer for it, it's an opportunity, um, you know? And then the second one is recognize. So, you know, if I think of something in my life, um, so the- the Everest expeditions, right, they came from, one, um, you know, encountering that opportunity to recognizing what that opportunity was. Um, and at the time, it was supposed to be a K- an expedition to K2. And, you know, I'm massive on gut feel. If something feels good and it feels like it's gonna change my life for the better, then I take that opportunity. Um, but you have to- you have to almost, it's like a muscle, right? The more of these opportunities you take and they lead you down these, like, crazy and different paths, the more you- you're able to recognize them when they- they fall on, you know, on your doorstep. And then it's exploiting them, which is, you know, exactly what it is. It's, right, where can I take this opportunity? Because we all know that when we take opportunities or when we- when we agree to things or whatever it is, they- they always open more doors further down the line, and then those doors open more doors down the line. And before you know it, you know, you've met some other people, you've done some other stuff in your life, and you've gone down a completely different path than what you set out

14. 36:23 – 39:53

    Regrets

    1. JMJay Morton36:23

       to do.

    2. CWChris Williamson36:23

       That's one of the things that I've been thinking about recently. Obviously, this little trip that I've taken out to Dubai, um, I decided...... the, the Sunday after the Saturday that lockdown was announced, got a PCR test on the Monday for COVID, packed on the Tuesday, and left on the Wednesday. Um, I- I'm not always, like, a perfect bastion of immediate action, (laughs) I suppose. Um, you know, we get stuck in-

    3. JMJay Morton36:47

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson36:47

       ... everyone gets stuck in ruts, and I'm, I'm no different. Um, but that single decision, the opportunity for me to be able to get away before lockdown came in, and then the single-time commitment has had multiple downstream changes. Like, it's literally the difference between me being here with it being, like, 9:00 PM at night in 30-degree heat, off on a yacht party tomorrow on the biggest yacht in Dubai, or me being in the UK and doing the life that I had there. And I love the life that I have in the UK and it's very productive, but I've done it all this year. So, yes, recognizing opportunities and I think committing to them, the, the exploit part, uh, is, is really important. A lot of people will see something and not realize that it is an opportunity, uh, or not decide to commit to it. And it's trite to say it, but it's very true that we often... I, I would say that more of our regrets certainly lean toward things that we chose not to do rather than things that we chose to do. It, it, we as creatures err on the side of stagnation, I think. Naturally, our, our, our-

    5. JMJay Morton37:53

       Yeah, 100%.

    6. CWChris Williamson37:54

       ... our tendency is to the status quo. Uh, I'm, I'm scared about that new cave next door, I'm scared about that new bush over there, I'm scared about that new tribe in the next valley. And you just roll that forward to the 21st century when we really don't have anything to be afraid of. Like COVID and, and, like, mad political elections and stuff like that. But really day-to-day, your safety, the water, the heat of being somewhere sheltered, all that sort of stuff, all of those fears have gone and they've become that, uh, worry around new experiences has been transmuted into people being concerned about all manner of, uh, uh, small things that really don't matter. You know, think about, like, anyone's slightly anxious mom. It's like that person, like, "Oh, have you got your coat on? Have you got your gloves on? Have you got..." th- you know, th- that kind of approach I think is just a, a maladapted evolutionary, uh, uh, heritage coming through.

    7. JMJay Morton38:55

       Yeah, but like, (clears throat) you know, that's the, that's like a, a lot of people, right, in the world. And it's, do you know, that whole, like, wrapping people up in cotton wool and, um, do you know, even just, you know, we all live, like you said, right, we all live in these buildings, these four walls. Like, we, we don't know what it feels like to feel rain on our face at nighttime or, or be cold. Like, we're rarely cold as human beings, right? Like, we rarely have to walk long distances or fend for our own food. And, and, and, you know, it's like, it all creates a softer human being. And, and it's almost like what you see now as a result is people get so offended because they've got almost this free time to become offended by some- by things. Whereas, do you know, like, if you had to fend for your food and get all this kind of stuff, it's like, it's like you wouldn't have that, that, that time available to be able to do that kind of stuff.

    8. CWChris Williamson39:52

       Massively

15. 39:53 – 41:35

    Problems of Surplus

    1. CWChris Williamson39:53

       so, man. I realized this at the beginning of the first lockdown when, when COVID came about. Um, in the absence of a real crisis, we create our own. And in the presence of a real crisis, we recenter our priorities. The fact that when everything's so comfortable and all of our problems are problems of surplus, not problems of scarcity at the moment. So think about the fact that-

    2. JMJay Morton40:17

       Yep.

    3. CWChris Williamson40:17

       ... we have too much information, too much food, too much, uh, um, spare time even to concern ourselves with this stuff. And all of those problems are now causing stuff, diabetes, peop- peop- peo- being overweight, technology addiction, so on and so forth. And yeah, we're, we're maladapted to the environment and it's increasingly why you see people going back to a more Paleolithic style of life. You know, people that choose... The minimalist movement now is a 21st century, uh, hark back to people trying to reduce the amount of clutter that's in their lives, trying to reduce that amount of surplus. So yeah, it's, um-

    4. JMJay Morton40:57

       Well, it's, you've only got to look at, like, the amount of people that are entering Ironman, like, Ironmans and ultra triathlons and that kind of stuff these days, 'cause, like, the human body needs suffering. Like, it, it needs, it needs some kind of suffering because we've had it all our life, right? And you take all that suffering away and make an, make an easy life for yourself and, you know, everything's a, a, a, the touch of a button and everything's so easily accessible. It's, it's not... You know, that's why, that's why you see, like, depression and suicide at such a high rate, 'cause people just don't know how to suffer anymore.

16. 41:35 – 45:24

    Voluntary Exposure

    1. JMJay Morton41:35

    2. CWChris Williamson41:35

       That's an interesting, that's an interesting insight on it. I, I think that you, you're probably correct there, that voluntary exposure to gradually increasing levels of discomfort will make you more tolerant to it over time. Um, there's a really interesting study that they did on children, uh, babies, infants. Um, so I think that if you are a child who has, I want to say eczema, um-

    3. JMJay Morton42:00

       Mm-hmm.

    4. CWChris Williamson42:00

       ... or some other skin condition, you are also predisposed to having peanut allergy. Uh, I think that it's-

    5. JMJay Morton42:08

       Oh, really?

    6. CWChris Williamson42:09

       ... it's one of the, it's one of the highlights, right? So what they did was they-

    7. JMJay Morton42:11

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson42:11

       ... they took children who had the eczema, uh, particular problem and voluntarily split them into two different groups. Group one was allowed to have rice puffs that had a very, very slight peanut coating dusting on them.... and the other-

    9. JMJay Morton42:32

       Mm-hmm.

    10. CWChris Williamson42:32

        ... the other group was kept free of nuts. The argument is that most parents that learn about eczema would hear that if your child has eczema, there is a increased risk of them being allergic to peanuts, therefore they will keep them away from absolutely everything that may have nuts in it. And what they did was they tracked these children over time, and the end result of the study was that the children who had been voluntarily exposed to the peanuts had a 25% peanut allergy, and the children who had been kept free of all of the peanut dust had a 75% peanut allergy.

    11. JMJay Morton43:09

        Yeah, it's wacky.

    12. CWChris Williamson43:10

        It's crazy, man, you know?

    13. JMJay Morton43:11

        It's crazy.

    14. CWChris Williamson43:12

        Vo- voluntarily exposing yourself to things that are going to be difficult, like why, why are people doing cold showers at the moment?

    15. JMJay Morton43:18

        Mm-hmm.

    16. CWChris Williamson43:18

        It's th- the ultimate doing something just because it hurts. There's some physiological adaptations which are good, and you get a bit of a buzz off it. It's like having a big, a big fat cup of coffee that lasts for about 20 minutes, which is nice.

    17. JMJay Morton43:30

        Yeah.

    18. CWChris Williamson43:30

        But for the mo- the most part, it's people avoiding that flinch. You know, like, why are you scared of getting in the cold shower? Like really, why are you scared? And it's a very interesting-

    19. JMJay Morton43:39

        Mm-hmm.

    20. CWChris Williamson43:40

        ... uh, internal battle to watch yourself go through 'cause you know it's gonna be cold, but it's not gonna kill you. It's not even gonna hurt you.

    21. JMJay Morton43:47

        Yeah.

    22. CWChris Williamson43:47

        It's just gonna be a little bit uncomfortable. So yeah, I think, uh, that's definitely something that I would, um, I would try and encourage in as many people as I can. So we've got, we've got the words SOLDIER, Self, Opportunity, Leadership, Danger, Intelligence, Excellence, and Resilience. Out of the ones that we got left, which one's your favorite? Can we go into that one?

    23. JMJay Morton44:08

        Uh... Doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. Let's have a think. I would say... Caught me off guard.

    24. CWChris Williamson44:18

        (laughs)

    25. JMJay Morton44:20

        Do y- do you know what? Like, I'd say that the, I'd say probably my favorite's SELF, um, more so 'cause I'm quite... I can get quite deep on myself and, um, I, I think I'm quite interested by human psychology and how we all fit into the world and, um, like being able to pull out your true potential and, and understand where, like, people fit into teams and that, that, that we're not all different. Um, and in the book I, I talk about personality testing, um, in specific the Myers-Briggs personality testing, and, you know, it's something that everyone should go and do just to find out, just to find out what their personality type is 'cause I think a lot of people just float through the universe just not diving deep on, on what kind of person they actually are. So, when you actually do a test and, and get a result, it's, it's a more, you kind of... it gives you a more realization of, of what you're actually like.

17. 45:24 – 47:51

    SelfReflection

    1. JMJay Morton45:24

    2. CWChris Williamson45:24

       Yeah, I think it's quite uncomfortable for a lot of people to do self-reflection, especially if you're not used to it. And I, I get that. Uh, I would probably guess that a lot of the people who are listening skew towards a very different sort of (laughs) type of person. They're gonna be incredibly, uh, introspective, they're gonna do a lot of self-inquiry just because of the, the sort of guests that I have on. But, uh, y- there is no amount of money on the planet that you could pay me to stop thinking about my internal monologue. Like, it's this single-

    3. JMJay Morton45:58

       Yeah.

    4. CWChris Williamson45:58

       ... the single most fascinating thing that I do. Um-

    5. JMJay Morton46:01

       Yeah, agree. Agree.

    6. CWChris Williamson46:03

       I love working out motivations, and I do it in other people as well. And when you get to a particular level of competence with yourself, you're able to help other people, and that, that feels really, really good, you know? That you-

    7. JMJay Morton46:14

       Yeah.

    8. CWChris Williamson46:14

       ... you kind of, kind of like you were talking before about voluntary discomfort, say, "Okay, I'm gonna go through a little bit of discomfort thinking about some stuff that happened in my past that I don't like, or thinking about a, a thing that I really wish that I, uh, m- attribute I wish I didn't have," whatever. And after you work through that and you realize that it didn't kill you, you can then help other people around you to do it. Um, it's really, it's a beautiful use of time, man. I think, I think that's a good shout.

    9. JMJay Morton46:43

       Yeah, definitely. Like what I, what I really love doing on myself is trying to understand why I make decisions or why I do certain things and just going, like just doing the deep dive and, and trying to understand like why I'm so hell-bent on being, like, fit and healthy and, like, oh-

    10. CWChris Williamson47:03

        A psychopath that goes up to the top of Everest twice.

    11. JMJay Morton47:06

        Yeah, like just-

    12. CWChris Williamson47:07

        (laughs)

    13. JMJay Morton47:07

        ... like, things like that, like what is, like, what is my absolute reason for doing that? There's probably a, a load of different reasons, but I kind of, I quite enjoy having a very, um, objective or pulled out point of view of everything and just try and even observe other people and just be like, "Right, like why, why do, why does, why do so many people sit in front of the TV and listen to the news and listen to the media and, like, live on its every word as, as though that's the truth?" And, um, you know, just trying to have a very abstract point of view on absolutely everything that goes on through the, through myself and through, through the world.

    14. CWChris Williamson47:47

        Yeah, I think, uh, the

18. 47:51 – 48:40

    Rationalist Movement

    1. CWChris Williamson47:51

       rationalist movement which is going on at the moment, uh, lesswrong.com and the Slate STARR Codex that I'm a massive fan of, two, two fantastic blogs, I think that a big part of that is people trying to bring a little bit of order to chaos. Because if you leave your life to be, um, guided by the paths of least resistance, you often end up in a place not only that you don't want to be but that you didn't even mean to get to. You know? Like-

    2. JMJay Morton48:16

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson48:16

       ... y- y- you can very easily live a life that you regret without even realizing that you're walking down the path. And, um-

    4. JMJay Morton48:22

       Quite easily, yeah. Yeah, quite easily.

    5. CWChris Williamson48:23

       Uh, uh, that's, that's something that everybody should be fearful of, you know? Like that o-

    6. JMJay Morton48:27

       But w- but w- we're ma- we're made to, like, live this easy life, aren't we? Like, you will see, you will search out the easiest way of doing things every time unless you're-

    7. CWChris Williamson48:36

       Mm-hmm.

    8. JMJay Morton48:36

       ... aware that you're doing those things.

    9. CWChris Williamson48:39

       Yeah. So,

19. 48:40 – 52:28

    Discomfort

    1. CWChris Williamson48:40

       underneath everything actually, there's a little bit of a source code that people should lean into discomfort wherever they can find it, and the more that you can get used to leaning into it. You know, eh, eh, remember as well, the reason that you go to the gym is for the discomfort, the discomfort is a signal that you're doing the thing you're there to do.

    2. JMJay Morton48:59

       Mm-hmm.

    3. CWChris Williamson48:59

       It's not the thing that you're supposed to, "Oh, this hurts in the gym, therefore I'll stop doing it." It's like, no, no, no, no, that, that is why you're there. So people are used to it, right? You know, Arnie used to talk about the, how much he loved to pump, and-

    4. JMJay Morton49:11

       Mm-hmm.

    5. CWChris Williamson49:11

       ... v- in the gym people are aware that that's why. "Okay, I did a thing, and the outcome of that thing was a little bit of discomfort, but that's what I'm chasing because it identifies growth." That just means-

    6. JMJay Morton49:22

       And the body re- the body rewards you for that as well, right?

    7. CWChris Williamson49:24

       Yeah.

    8. JMJay Morton49:24

       The body makes you feel good with endorphins.

    9. CWChris Williamson49:26

       That just needs mapping onto other areas of life. I had Ali Abdull on-

    10. JMJay Morton49:30

        Yeah.

    11. CWChris Williamson49:30

        ... not long ago, who's a, a YouTuber that focuses on learning and productivity, and he nailed it. He was like, "Learning is supposed to be hard. If it's not difficult, you're not learning."

    12. JMJay Morton49:42

        Yeah.

    13. CWChris Williamson49:42

        Exactly the same as the gym. And the same thing goes for everything. So yeah, I think, I definitely think there's a unifying thread across a lot of other stuff. Now last question for you, man. What is the biggest insight that you wish more people knew about life?

    14. JMJay Morton49:56

        I think we just covered it.

    15. CWChris Williamson49:58

        That one, discomfort?

    16. JMJay Morton49:59

        Just, yeah, just, just search out difficult things and the reward, y- you, you know, y- you'll soon get the reward that it brings you.

    17. CWChris Williamson50:13

        I love that. I love that, and I agree as well. So, Soldier will be linked in the show notes below. If people want to check you out, to go and see some other stuff about you, where should they go, Jay?

    18. JMJay Morton50:21

        Uh, so, mainly Instagram, uh, so it's J_ Morton, uh, also on Twitter and Facebook, but probably less active on those two. Uh, and I've got a website as well, uh, just, it's jmortonofficial.com.

    19. CWChris Williamson50:35

        Fantastic. Everything will be linked in the show notes below. What's next for you then, man? Obviously final, final thing, you've got this period to sit at home and plan some mad adventures. Oh, were you doing some race? What's the race?

    20. JMJay Morton50:47

        Uh, yeah, so I'm racing for a car team called Praga next year, um, which is, again, like, fairly new to me, the whole motor sport thing. So at the minute just trying to get as much seat time and as much learning and practice in cars and tracks around the UK as possible, um, and then yeah. So I'll start, I think my first race is next March.

    21. CWChris Williamson51:10

        What's the car? What's the vehicle?

    22. JMJay Morton51:12

        It's called a Praga R1.

    23. CWChris Williamson51:15

        W- what's-

    24. JMJay Morton51:15

        So it's, um, it's a, it's a full aero race car, so you can't buy one and race it on the road, um, it's, it's strictly a track car, but it's full aero, so, you know, if you think of F1, F1's got an aero system-

    25. CWChris Williamson51:28

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JMJay Morton51:28

        ... which means that the faster you drive it, the more it sticks to the ground, um, so th- this is the same in this car, the faster you drive it, the more grip you produce. Um, it's got a 350 brake horsepower Renault turbo engine in, and it weighs 600-

    27. CWChris Williamson51:41

        Shit!

    28. JMJay Morton51:41

        ... 600 kg.

    29. CWChris Williamson51:43

        Shit the bed.

    30. JMJay Morton51:44

        So yeah, it's, it's a, it's a machine. Uh, it's like a little s- little single cockpit, um, like a little single cockpit car. Kind of looks like a smaller Le Mans car.

Episode duration: 52:28