Modern WisdomLife Hacks: A Christmas Special (2025)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,000 words- 0:00 – 11:01
Why Meditation Can Change Your Life in 2026
- CWChris Williamson
Merry Christmas, everybody. For the people who joined the podcast within the last five years, the last few million, three million subscribers, uh, this is my living room in Newcastle. And this is Johnny, uh, and this is George, uh, and that's Yusuf, and he's in Malaysia. Uh, and this is a Christmas episode. We've got one day to turn this around, so merry Christmas. It's Christmas Day. Um, enjoy the turkey and the pigs in blankets, uh, and we are gonna do some lessons and life hacks and fails from the last 12 months. It's kind of a Christmas tradition, I suppose. And also another part of the tradition is that you go first, Johnny. So give us-
- JOJonny
Every year.
- CWChris Williamson
... give us a life hack. All right.
- JOJonny
My life hack, which might not be allowed, we'll see if it gets past the, the Chris rule, has already been a life hack.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JOJonny
Is that all right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JOJonny
Only the best once.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JOJonny
It's, the reason it's a life hack is I was speaking to a few friends about this, and neither of them had heard of it, and I was like, "You know, I thought Chris' podcast did better than that."
- CWChris Williamson
Really building the tension here.
- JOJonny
I know. Well, it's, it's the Waking Up app by Sam Harris.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. (laughs)
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JOJonny
Why is that bad?
- CWChris Williamson
Too sponsored. It's not. Have you been paid off by Big Sam?
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Big medita- big meditations come to get you.
- JOJonny
I, I think... Uh, well, d- d- do you guys meditate?
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- JOJonny
No? Yes. I think it is the... Well, so, so the, the hack specifically is download the app using the c- no. Download the app and listen to the Fundamentals, like, Theory series, and it's, like, five audios with Sam explaining why you should meditate, and I think that is the thing. I, so I've meditated every day this year. It's the first time it's ever happened, and it was that audio series that got me.
- CWChris Williamson
But that's not a meditation.
- JOJonny
That's not-
- CWChris Williamson
It's just buy-in.
- JOJonny
Yeah. So the, the app is also... I think it makes it, it's just, like, a daily audio you can follow. They're different every day.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- JOJonny
It's, like, daily programming.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
Classic programming for meditation.
- 11:01 – 17:49
Uber is Revolutionising How We Book Flights
- CWChris Williamson
there. Okay. First one.
- YUYusef
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Here we go.
- YUYusef
(laughs) This is like you mentioned, Chris, about the curve of m- the large por- proportion of people who are actually just tuned in now and are just like, "What? These guys are mental."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- YUYusef
So, my hack is-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- YUYusef
... use Uber for flights. So-
- CWChris Williamson
Use Uber for flights.
- YUYusef
Honestly, I c- I cannot believe how easy it is. So, in the five minutes between landing the plane, getting reception, and standing up and leaving, I booked my next flight to Vietnam on Uber on mobile. It's like it already has your details and you just go boop, done, and it gives you Uber credits, like 10% for every flight booked. So, the benefit of this hack is that you're not having to go through like random airlines and Skyscanner or Google Flights or any of that stuff. It just gives you the best price with the easiest booking experience. And they don't charge a markup. I don't know ha- what the business model is for that. ... part of Uber, unless it's just, like, lost leader. But brilliant. So I'm never going back to booking flights any other way.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm just doing it now, I'm doing it now on my phone, Uber Travel. I mean, Uber, when you actually look at it, the number of different things that Uber can do is pretty insane. You can get them to collect parcels for you. You can get them to drop off-
- YUYusef
Yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... drop off different stuff. Uh, I didn't know that-
- JOJonny
Or Uber Green for booking flights.
- CWChris Williamson
I did not know that they did flights. What's the difference between this and Skyscanner? 'Cause I'm a big Skyscanner stan.
- YUYusef
As far as I understand, Skyscanner, you still have to get redirected to the, um, airline, and then you have to fill in all your details like four times and your passport number and all this stuff. So, like, m- currently, I'm in Malaysia but I've gone via, like, Singapore and then going Brisbane, Sydney, Vietnam, Bali, like, through lots of little airports and stuff. And these shitty little airlines that have websites that barely work and you just, like, try multiple times to book it. Like, I spent 40 minutes trying to book something on, like, Batik Airlines, couldn't get it working. Uber, 37 quid, like, took five minutes.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow, free price freeze.
- YUYusef
Oh, yeah. So they, they freeze the price and they let you change the dates flexibly as well for like an extra £3 or something.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow, so the cost of the price is, th- the cost of freezing it is just £18. "Stay safe from price increases while you plan your trip." All right, this is, this is really good.
- YUYusef
Oh, they also have a feature where-
- CWChris Williamson
This is really, really, really-
- YUYusef
Honestly like-
- CWChris Williamson
... fucking good.
- YUYusef
... top tier life hack. It, they also have a thing-
- CWChris Williamson
Holy shit.
- YUYusef
... where if you book, if you book a flight now and the price drops in between now and the flight happening you get the difference.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow.
- JOJonny
Big hack.
- CWChris Williamson
This is-
- JOJonny
Big hack.
- 17:49 – 22:32
The Chess Clock Procrastination Buster
- CWChris Williamson
George, what have you got for us?
- JOJonny
I don't think we've spoken about airlines enough.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
So, uh, um, my one, I'll go in with, um, something different, which is chess clocks.
Oh, God.
(laughs) Don't "oh, God."
Uh, no, no, no, no. I-
It's a-
Yeah, I know where he's gonna go with this.
So, uh, it's one of the ideas I got from, uh, the writer Tim Urban who obviously did the amazing TED Talk on procrastination and then ironically spent, like, six years procrastinating on his, uh, book. And he said the biggest lesson from it was when it comes to deep work, which I've got another point I'll come onto in a second, but particularly when it comes to deep work, um, if you can get four hours done in a day, I think you're in the top 1%. Um, but a lot of people f- think, "Oh, I work eight hours a day, I work 10 hours a day." And he found that when it came to writing the book, he would go to write it and then other little bits of work would come up. There'd be a Slack message here, there'd be an internet scroll here. So the chess clock methodology is you essentially set it up where you have 16 hours in the day, okay, and your goal is to get four hours on one side of the chess clock. And whenever you're doing anything that isn't the thing, you have to hit it over. So if you go to go to the bathroom, hit it over. Go for a walk, hit it over. Somebody comes in, hit it over. So there's always an immediate price to bullshit or to distraction. Um, and you realize, oh, wow, first off, when you do four hours, like properly four hours, you're- that is a lot of time. And then a lot of the time you'll be there at 12:00 PM going, wow, like there's just all this kind of free time for the rest of the day. If you don't have a chess clock, like, the other simple approach is to just literally set an alarm for four hours and then at any time you stop you have to pause it. Yeah. Yeah.
So there's just always- it hacks the, uh, the kind of brain's circuitry that there's always some form of punishment for distraction whereas previously there isn't. And the amount of times you can convince yourself you're doing something that isn't the actual thing is, um, is significant.
That's some- I can see that working for, like, an external problem, like someone comes in, someone rings you up, email, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
But I think the main barrier to deep work is like an internal- so you're doing something-
Mm-hmm.
... and then you'll think, oh, I just need to do this, and then you open, open a different window.
Pause the clock.
But it- the pro- the problem for most people I don't think is, like, "I'm aware I'm distracted now but I'll just be distracted."
Mm.
I don't think people are aware that they're being distracted.
Do you know what? I think th- well, this is the thing about the clock is that y- it's kind of there ticking, and you have to be a little bit more honest. And even then I'll be aware of is this a clock-worthy pause or is this-
Like where do you sit well.
... is this actually a justifiable use of time? And so just having that there and that punishment there, um, is pretty significant. What are your most common debates about whether it is or is not a clock-worthy pause?
Um, you filling up a glass of water can be on there. Um, just like, or girlfriends come in-
Mm.
... you know what I mean? It's like little things like that but I'll tend to, I'll tend to pause the clock, yeah.
Mm.
So if you're, like, if you're writing-
Mm-hmm.
... and you're like, oh, I need to, like, go somewhere to get this reference for this thing and-
- 22:32 – 29:59
Brick Your Phone to Boost Productivity
- JOJonny
No, I'm joking. All right, Johnny. L- are we on lessons? Whatever you want. Whatever I want?
Take, take whatever you want.
All right, well, I'll give a- I'll do a hack that's similar to one we've just been speaking about which is brick for iPhone. You guys seen that?
It's a near field communication thing that you got to tap to unlock your phone.
Mm-hmm. Tried it?
I never knew what NFC stands for, Chris. That's a lovely little bonus.
There's a hack within a hack. (laughs)
(laughs)
I didn't expect you to, like, describe it like that. It's a very-
It's accurate.
Yeah.
It's very detailed as well.
You gotta tap, tap a thing to get your phone to work. Yeah. So you, you s- you sche- set like a schedule on your phone, like we've all tried, all these like app blocking things that you-
Mm-hmm.
... that you can just ultimately delete the app. You have to, like, go to where the thing is in the house, press unbrick and then tap the NFC- (laughs)
(laughs)
... device. It's just been the most effective thing, so as y- I've had a year of like block- trying to block myself from having to press the chess clock.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and it's been the most effective thing because having to, like, stand up, go into another room, press unbrick, go, clip, and then look at Instagram, just not gonna happen.
'Cause I'm still using Opal from two years ago-
Oh, yeah, from two years ago.
... when you suggested it.
I'm on a constant wrestle. I just- it's just not quite as like- 'cause you c- you can get round that, right? Yeah. Yeah, and there's nothing more I think humiliating (laughs) than getting around Op- I've seen people do that.
In front of others.
Yeah.
Let me just show you this thing on YouTu- oh, wait, no. Hang on, can you wait for 27 seconds please?
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... pause session.
- GEGeorge
Did you ever get the, the box, Johnny?
- JOJonny
No.
- 29:59 – 34:48
Don’t Overestimate the Attribution Error
- CWChris Williamson
(air whooshing) Seth, what you got?
- GEGeorge
Back around to me. Uh, I really underestimated the potency of the attribution error and-
- YUYusef
... cognitive dissonance. So what I mean by that is... Keep me right on this, Chris, because I feel like th- this is your absolute wheelhouse. That we over-attribute other people's behavior to their character-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
... but we under-attribute it to situational factors.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- YUYusef
But then for ourselves, we over-attribute situational factors and we under-attribute a character 'cause it's too painful for us to just be like, "Oh, well, it's just 'cause I'm a, just a shit person," rather than, like, "Oh, it was 'cause the bus was late and 'cause whatever." But easy to be like, "Oh, th- they, they were just a dick," and it can't have been that they were sleep-deprived or looking after their toddler or whatever else.
- CWChris Williamson
The classic, the classic one is, "I cut that guy off because I'm late for work. He cut me off because he's a bad driver."
- YUYusef
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. Great example. So the, the broader lesson that I'm seeing here is, um, that people are a lot more emotionally driven than, uh, th- than I think I've really given it credit for. Like, outside of our extremely autistic bubble, um, there is, uh, there's so much more cognitive dissonance that drives people's behavior and thoughts and actions. And so, you know this thing of, like, people buy with emotion and they justify with logic? It's, it's not just buying behavior. It's, it's everything. And the moment you start spotting this, you see it everywhere. So y- everyone listening must have had an experience where you're speaking to someone who has a particular, um, stance, or gripe, or position, or something. Could be on politics, could be on a relationship issue, whatever. And the more you start to kind of get into it, you realize that they're just rotating their complaints, or, like, they, they're moving goalposts but still being pissed off about something. Until you're like, "Ah, actually, like, the pissed off comes first and then the justification-"
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
"... comes later."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- YUYusef
Um, so it's that people don't actually want to get to this kind of rational, objective truth. Um, they just wanna feel safe, and they just want a hug and just want to be heard. Um, and so I don't know who said this, but it's a quote of, "We only see what we want to see. We only hear what we want to hear," and our belief system is like a mirror that only shows us what we believe. So the lens or the glasses that we see the world through tell us more about the color of the lens than they do about the world out there.
- CWChris Williamson
I certainly, this year, since trying to do more emotions work, have sort of come to the realize, or the, the belief that most of the thoughts that we have are bottom-up, not top-down. You feel a thing-
- YUYusef
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then you come up with a story that explains why you feel the thing, as opposed to-
- YUYusef
And-
- CWChris Williamson
... you're accurately determining that, that story from, from your brain downward.
- YUYusef
It's very convincing as well 'cause that, it's what the brain does. Like, it's a sense-making machine, isn't it? So the body goes, "Oh, I'm anxious. Oh, my heart's going whatever," and then it, the brain has to quickly be like, "Oh, well, that's because this," and it just, like, pulls together random things and thoughts to create this, like, to weave this narrative, and then it holds onto that, and it become, it identifies with it. It's such a, like, such a weird process, but it just is happening in the background all the time.
- CWChris Williamson
How have you changed the way that you operate, or h- have you applied this in any way? Is it just an insight that's interesting philosophically?
- YUYusef
We... Jus- just realizing that, um, there's, there's no point in trying to argue with what someone's saying or trying to, like, convince someone on the head level and instead just, like, just give them a hug and l- or, like, you know, metaphorically, and speak to the heart, and, um, realize that it's the, that, that's the stuff to address first before you get into any of the, um, what someone... So s- rather, rather than listening to what someone is saying, listen to what they're feeling.
- CWChris Williamson
Th- there's also this, uh, like, side argument that people can go down when they touch that, which is that, "Oh, uh, people are irrational. They, uh, they're not logical. They're driven by emotions." And there's this great, uh, account, uh, Chris Larkin, and he has this great line which is, um, "Emotions are logical. You're just bad at logic." And when you actually get deeper to a lay- a layer of, well, why is that anger there, or why is that anxiety there, we almost, we start with logic, and then people kind of deny the emotional level. But then even beneath that, there's this kind of logic for all of those emotions that exist that we, we don't even get down to the basement, and then we don't even get to the point where you realize there's a basement in the basement.
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 34:48 – 40:03
Everyone Needs an Owala Bottle
- CWChris Williamson
All right, my next one-
- YUYusef
Yeah, it's-
- CWChris Williamson
My next one. The surfed is good. Uh, Owala bottles. You seen one of these?
- YUYusef
Owala bottles. No.
- CWChris Williamson
Seen one of these before? You've seen one of these around the house . I have this. So, um, everybody needs some form of water receptacle, and, uh, I've cycled through quite a bit. I've cycled through Yeti.
- YUYusef
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I've used steel protein shakers, which are good for the protein thing. Um, the reason that I like these Owala bottles, this is, that's Mark Zuckerberg's Ranch's logo for you there. Uh, the reason that I like these ones, they're insulated. Uh, they have got, this size in particular's got a good capacity. It's nearly 700, 700 ml. Uh, this spout thing here allows you to sip it like a straw but also drink from it. This can hook through something and... Hold on. And it'll keep stuff cold for a few hours. It doesn't look too... It comes in every different color that you can imagine. You can customize the whole thing, and if you want to get something printed on for yourself or for somebody else that's a logo, or a word, or something etched in it, you can. And it's 20 bucks for one of these. They're really cheap. Uh, they're, they're fantastic, and I, I adore mine and I use it all the time, and I think everyone... Eh, yeah, pretty much everybody from the team's got one. And-It's very satisfying. It's very satisfying.
- JOJonny
It looks nice. Is it metal?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, whole thing.
- JOJonny
Yeah. Yeah, it feels nice. Johnny, have you... Have you watched The Office?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
You know the Christmas special where David Brent's, like, a salesman, and he's going around on the road, and he's go- he's, like, doing the water-off, and he's giving the whole pitch? It was literally like that, and I was just expecting you to go at the end, "So, who does your tampons?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Well-
- JOJonny
Nice.
- CWChris Williamson
... you know who does your hydration? There we go.
- JOJonny
I thought you were... I thought everything was Yeti. You moved away from that. What a- why are they better than Yeti?
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, the sip spout, the l- magic straw or whatever they call it, is really satisfying.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
It does make me feel a bit like a baby, um, which-
- JOJonny
That's okay though.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, is okay. Uh, Yeti's good. They probably have better insulation. It'll keep stuff colder for longer maybe. Uh, but the sizes of Yeti are a little bit more cumbersome. Can only go from one that's definitely not big enough to one that's almost certainly too big. And the smallest Owala size, which is this one, is really good, and fits in the side of most backpacks and...
- JOJonny
It's about a liter.
- CWChris Williamson
No, I think it's seven... just over 700, which is, for a single 700... If you get over a liter, if you get e- even over close to what, a liter, it- it... You probably don't wanna drink the same thing for that long. Maybe you wanna-
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... cycle it out. It gets heavy. But 500 mL is nowhere near enough, so it's the optimal size. This is currently, uh... Come back next year when I disagree-
- JOJonny
In fact-
- CWChris Williamson
... with myself (laughs) .
- JOJonny
... when I have a different phone blocking method than you-
- 40:03 – 50:21
The Beauty of Documenting Everyday Life
- CWChris Williamson
All right, George.
- JOJonny
Uh, mine's more of a, a lesson or a two-part lesson. So, one of the lessons this year was... So, when I originally, uh, wrote the essay on high agency, one of the bits of feedback that I got, and other people, uh, gave me as well, is that the, the concept's not necessarily new, but it gives you, um, gives you a bit of language to refer to a thing. And I've had that for a while with that term, and I was like... I then went one level above that where it's like, "Hold on, I don't have a bit of language to refer to when I need a bit of language to refer to something." So, um, I told a friend, Henrik, that, and he gave me from Scott Alexander this, uh, he calls it a idea handle, which is when you create a term or a name for a thing, and then you can kind of pick it up in the world. And a big thing for me this year has been, like, around language, which I'll... um, but even where Yusuf is right now, which is beautiful, like, side tangent here. In Malaysia, they don't use plural. So, rather than say tables, they s- they say table table. So you just realize, when you study language, so much comes back to you. But one bit of language I've been kinda playing around with is... We've spoken about this before around forgetting things and how much we forget, and I found this story, um, about a seven-year-old boy called Henry. And one day he's out and about playing in his, uh, drive in Connecticut, and a cyclist doesn't see him and clatters into him, knocks him unconscious. And he wakes up, and the next few days he starts having a few seizures. And by the age of 25 he's having 25 seizures per day, and this is in the '50s. So he's trying everything to get rid of this condition. So he goes and signs up for experimental brain lobotomy surgery. And he wakes up from the operation and he has some good news, some bad news, and some awful news. So the good news is that the brain surgery has basically cured his condition entirely, so he has no more epileptic fits. The bad news is that he won't remember the good news, 'cause the awful news is it's destroyed his ability to form new memories. So he lives from the age of about 25 to 85 not forming any new memories. So every day his psychiatrist would meet him and get to know Henry well over the years, and each day he would meet his psychiatrist for the first time.... but there was this specific bit of detail about Henry, which I call Henry's mirror, which is every morning he would wake up, he would look at himself in the mirror, and he'd be shocked and perplexed at how old he was. 'Cause in his head he was always 25. And I kind of call this idea Henry's mirror, which is the problem with amnesia is not only do you forget, it's that you have amnesia of your amnesia. And it's this idea that all of us right now have some bit of Henry's mirror in us. We don't even realize it because by definition you've forgotten it. So the classic example I use is, okay, Johnny, can you think of a- a clear sentence or thought from yesterday? Bearing in mind you had 10 to 70,000 on average. Can you think of one?
- CWChris Williamson
No.
- JOJonny
But when you're in these overthinking spirals, it feels, it feels so real, feels so tangible. And then it just fades away and all you have is a face that's getting older in the mirror each day.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, it's very apocalyptic.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
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- JOJonny
I think the- the big thing I've tried to change more, first off when it comes to overthinking, trying to realize that as a thought loop's happening, trying to stare in that mirror for a second and go, "Well, hold on. How long, how many times does this happen?" 'Cause this could be the 60,000th time this thought has happened, but I can't remember anything from yesterday, is one thing. The second thing is just very basic level, just trying to document more, take more photos, take more videos, journal more, and without realizing it's such a- a- an asset that's going to compound further and further in the future. Even like today, to be honest with you, it's fun that we get this for like 20 years from now we can go, "Oh, what we was doing that day."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
But otherwise, like the- the average person, the- the memory just goes and then your life just goes.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
If you use-
- CWChris Williamson
Merry Christmas.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
Merry Christmas. If you use day one for journaling. Do you guys use journ- day one?
- CWChris Williamson
No. You're at such a day one. I- I do use day one, and I've used it more this year than any other year.
- JOJonny
It just gives you, every time you go to make a journal entry it's like, "On this day, a year ago, two years ago, eight years ago, ten years ago-"
- CWChris Williamson
How many entries have you got on day one now?
- JOJonny
I've been using it for like I think 15 years.
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
But how frequently are you doing it?
- JOJonny
I try and do it every day.
- CWChris Williamson
Really?
- JOJonny
Yeah. Just like contents of mind, and a picture every day.
What's been the-
- CWChris Williamson
Really? So you've got thousands of entries?
- JOJonny
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Holy f-
- JOJonny
But the thi- the main takeaway from all of it is like, it's just the same stuff. It's just the same...
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 50:21 – 1:01:17
Chasing the Difficult Things in Life
- CWChris Williamson
All right, Johnny, what you got?
- JOJonny
Johnny.
- CWChris Williamson
Johnny.
- JOJonny
Uh, I have a lesson which ties in beautifully with this.
- CWChris Williamson
Wonderful.
- JOJonny
Because one of the problems with having 15 years of journals is I can s- I watch, I- I can see this, like, journey of me chasing all these little things. So like I wanted to bench 100 kilos, and then I wanted abs, and then I wanted a 2:1 degree, and I wanted a job, and then I wanted Propane to do well, and I wanted certain revenue levels. And it's always just this next thing. You can see it happening through the journal entries.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
And you realize changes nothing. Like, the s- in those same entries there's still worries, problems, the same worries, the same problems. And you watch you through time achieve these things, and you're still worried about the same stuff, and that creates this feeling of like, what is the point of doing-
- CWChris Williamson
Abundancy, yeah.
- JOJonny
... anything? But the- the thing that you realize woven into all of it is the thing that's changing the whole time, is the- like the traits that are- that are th- you and y- how your character is changing because chasing those things that are difficult require, like delayed gratification, they require like dealing with diffic- difficult emotions, they require like th- all of the skills that you have to build and all of the traits you have to build to build a business to a certain level, or to diet for the le- the leanest human being, whatever it might be. You- you change. So it's this idea that like the goals, I don't think they really compound. They kind of do, but they- like the dopamine you get from that doesn't compound, but the traits that you get from chasing the hard things is the compounding.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
And that immedi- that realization immediately flipped back to like it's absolutely worth like listing out loads of really big difficult goals and chasing them, because the- I don't think there's any faster way to change who you are-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
... to improve your... And I- it's something that like being a- my daughter's now of an age where like she's- she's gone from being a baby to being like a little person. And I'm like, "Oh God, like there's a proper like responsibility here to be the example." And I think the best way to become the example is chase the difficult things that require the traits to- to come as part of the journey.
- YUYusef
I love the, um, uh, what your takeaway from that, Johnny. 'Cause some people would be really nihilistic about that. They'd be like, "Oh, well, there's no point chasing anything."
- JOJonny
That's the first feeling. That's the first feeling. The first feeling is like, "Oh, what's the point?"
- YUYusef
Yeah. Whereas you're like, "Actually, this is a way to play the game without having to be fully sucked into the game."
- CWChris Williamson
Well, you still need to be conned by the game into believing that the game is what you want to play. Like this wouldn't work, you would not be able to get yourself to do the hard thing if you didn't think that the other side of the goal of the hard thing was completion, satisfaction, self-actualization, rest.
- JOJonny
But I think people think, "Oh, when I get a million turnover, I'll be happy."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
That's not true. But when you get a million turnover, the person-
- CWChris Williamson
The person that you've become.
- JOJonny
Yeah. And so you just change the thing, the goal is kind of like the side quest to the thing.
- CWChris Williamson
But that's the-
- JOJonny
If I said like become a better person.
- CWChris Williamson
... th- the goal is the thin end of the wedge. The goal is what gets you through the door.
- JOJonny
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Because you're not thinking, "I can't wait to feel dissatisfied in this goal, but happy about the person I've become."
- JOJonny
Yeah, like you achieve the goal, you get the little like, it's the James Smith thing, like, "Oh it always feels- it feels exactly the same."
- CWChris Williamson
Yep. Then you're dissatisfied that you're a better person.
- 1:01:17 – 1:09:56
Unteachable Lessons are Unteachable
- CWChris Williamson
All right, Seth, what have you got?
- YUYusef
(overlapped by music) Mm. J- So, s- s- ... So, ju- just to piggyback off Johnny's there, 'cause I really like the takeaway of, like, the person that you become, um, I think there's another thing that you can draw from that too, so I fully agree, but, um, you were talking about, like, chewing on the menu, so mistaking the menu for the meal and ascribing that as the, t- t- to your happiness, and we're the ones that always move the goalposts for our happiness every time we hit a particular milestone and we renegotiate the contract with our brain so that we end up in this trap where, you know, the, your brain releasing little blips of, of some neurotransmitter but you raise the bar of, "Oh, but it has to be, I have to achieve an even higher bar to, to get the same little blurt of dopamine." Um, and, uh, a lot of it's because we almost feel like it's too simple to just enjoy the basic pleasures of life that are immediately available, of, like, health and relationships and nature and the sun and friends and thi- things that, um, you would a- ... Like, if they were taken away from you, you would actually want to exchange everything for that. So there's a, there's a book by a media giant who wrote ... I think he came o- ... He was, like, the head of PC World magazine and a bunch of conc- conglomerates called, uh, it's w- it's called Felix, Felix Dennis, uh, How to Get Rich, and it- it's like a tongue-in-cheek book about, like, you know, like, "I'm sat here at the age of 84, um, writing, um, this book to you, dear reader, who's, um, you know, probably in your 20s or 30s, and despite the billions that I've amassed, I would swap places with you in an instant because you have the one thing that I don't, which is time, and I would still have the better end of the deal." Um, so it's almost like the, the things that we're chasing ... Like, most people listening to this podcast are probably in the top, like, 20% of global wealth anyway, and yet we think that if we get to the top 19% or the top 18% or whatever that something's gonna change. Um, I saw Ferris shared this quote from Marian Zeldes the other day, "The hardest thing to teach a student, and to believe consistently, is that there is nothing out there to go and get. There is no part, career, opportunity for which you should be searching and scrounging and coveting. All of the preparation is within, and if you keep yourself mentally and physically fit and you remain generous with yourself and others, and stay deeply in your study about your cr- your craft, whatever is yours will then arrive." So with that in mind, it's like there are basic pleasures that are always available and when they're gone, like health, for example, when a challenge ... We've all, I think all of us have gone through some health challenge in the last, like, 10 years where we've suddenly been like, "Oh, wow."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- YUYusef
"Actually, I could really do with (laughs) a bit more of that again." Um, so instead it's like enjoy those pleasures and then organize your life such that you can enjoy the passage of time as you move towards your goal, and then you've got the best of both worlds.
- CWChris Williamson
I think this is ... It might sound too, uh, it's probably almost certainly would have sounded to us eight years ago when we started the pod opulent maybe, entitled, s- r- detached from reality in some sort of ... Why, why ... Just get stronger, bigger, more rich, more popular, whatever. Um, why are you needing to make everything so abstract? But this leads into my favorite, my favorite lesson from the entire year which is that unteachable lessons are unteachable, and this has been the best I wrote it in January and then dropped it on Rogan a couple of weeks after that, and it's still just, it's a fundamental truism that there are a particular category of insights about life that you cannot learn without experiencing, and money won't make you happy, fame won't fix your self-worth, you don't love that pretty girl, she's just hot and difficult to get, you should see your parents more, you should work less, you should spend more time in a hammock, you should enjoy a holiday without having your phone, you'll never care about anything that you're thinking of apart from when you're thinking about it. Like, all of these lessons over and over, the next follower count won't matter. The reason that people proclaim them with such, like, grandiose ceremony when they get there is that they can't believe that that was the case, despite the fact that generations of parents and media and literature and archetype and myth and songs and art have told us, "Here are the pitfalls to look out for."
- YUYusef
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
And it's this weird kind of, like, cute narcissism that we all have where we think, "Tha- that might be true for them, but not for me." My particularly unique-
- YUYusef
It's the classic, like, "Oh, shut up, grandad. Like-"
- CWChris Williamson
Yes.
- YUYusef
"... I'll figure it out myself," right?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- YUYusef
Okay?
- CWChris Williamson
Tha- my unique constitution would allow me to dance through this minefield of very well-laden, very well-described tripwires and I won't trip on any of them. So I'm working on, uh, the next build of this unteachable lessons thing 'cause I think it's so good. Um, one of the ... So first off, I guess, you are ... If you chase something that you were warned was hollow to arrive there and find out that the warning was correct, you are in good company. That's the first lesson of the unteachable lessons thing. But the second one is that they are unteachable, so the self-castigation of I should have known what I didn't know before I knew it, like, I should have seen this thing coming or whatever, I, that is simply not the way. The s- the unteachable lessons are self-reinforcing. They are unteachable, which means you have to do them in order to be able to understand them, and I think this is what maybe a good bit of-... also reckoning with now, that unteachable lessons don't really matter all that much, until you're at the stage where you've learned that the lesson should have been realized in advance, and you knew about it, and then you get this guilt. And you get the shame around, "Oh, fucking hell, how could I not have seen... Did the guys not tell me? Did they not say that the 4 million subs wasn't the answer, that the..." so on, and da-da-da-da-da. And, um, I think what I realized was, unteachable lessons is, is cool to point at, but doesn't actually give anybody any sense of... All it does is mark the way to the edge of the cliff that they are going to jump off of, and on your way down, you'll realize that you're in okay company. So, maybe you feel a bit less lonely. But the next one is, you can't realize this stuff before you've experienced it. And because of that, you shouldn't be whipping yourself into, like, pain, and, and saying, "What an idiot. I shouldn't have done this." It's a, a justification for self-compassion that... Way smarter, way richer, way more accomplished, more worldly people who had more advantages than you knew more and did the exact same thing, bigger, for longer, till the end of their life. They died trying to do it. And, okay, like, it, you, you dedicated however many weeks, months, years, decades to this career, relationship, pursuit, goal, dream, whatever it might be, to find out that what was at the end of the rainbow wasn't a pot of gold. You're in good company.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
What's that programming? Like, you can't just take it on faith. Otherwise, you'll be sat there with FOMO.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Yeah, it's the Naval thing. It's far easier to achieve your material desires than to renounce them.
- JOJonny
I think it's, like, the best reason to achieve them.
- CWChris Williamson
To clear them off, 100%.
- JOJonny
Yeah. Okay.
- CWChris Williamson
It's way easier. And this sounds like a (censored) thing to say, but...
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Demonetized.
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Um...
- JOJonny
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, it's, it's literally easier to buy a Ferrari than it is to rid yourself of the desire-
- JOJonny
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... to get a Ferrari.
- JOJonny
Yeah. It's either this or-
- CWChris Williamson
And that, that doesn't speak to how easy it is to get a Ferrari. It speaks to how difficult it is to be able to-
- 1:09:56 – 1:14:17
Call of Duty vs War
- JOJonny
what have I got next? Uh, you know, uh, one we've discussed before actually, um, not on the show. So, you'd spoke then about giving up desires. Uh, another problem is, is envy or jealousy. And I've... One of the things I've tried to do rather than give up envy or jealousy is have a bit more of a stricter criteria of when I'm willing to be envy or jealous. So, what I kind of developed is this idea I call Call of Duty versus war. So, Call of Duty is kind of what I project Johnny's life to be, be like, right? Like, maybe some of the highlights that I hear-
- CWChris Williamson
Let's get similar.
- JOJonny
... and the wins and all of that stuff. And then the war is, okay, when I've actually been with you for a week and lived your life. If I'm envious of the war, then that's fine. But if I'm envious of this Call of Duty-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
... 1% highlight reel that doesn't exist, then that's a problem. So, like, I use, I mean, I use two examples. I mean, one of them is, um, a... Is a, a business guy we both know, super, super, super successful. And he's got everything, beautiful family, amazing business. Um, he's crushing it year on year. And he's got to the scale now where we're talking, it's a huge mega business. I was with him, and you can easily feel envious. He goes, "Oh, I've got, um... I think it was 2,000 lawsuits this month."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JOJonny
'Cause when y- when your bus- when your business gets to that scale, you're constantly dealing with litigation from so many different an- uh... But d- wasn't he dealing with this personally as well? I don't... Yeah, there was like- He jumped in on some email while you were- Yes. Yeah. And he's, he, I mean, he's one of my favorite people in the world, but I go, "Oh, wow, like, if I wanna be envious, I've gotta go to the war. I, I've gotta be, oh, I also want the 2,000 emails a month." And likewise, I mean, me and you were on the road trip, and I think it's probably good for the viewers, 'cause I think a lot of people could look at you and go, "Good-looking guy, um, super successful, rich, knows loads of people." And that's the kind of Call of Duty model.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JOJonny
Me and Chris are on a road trip in America, and we're gonna put the tunes on and blare through the roads. And then Sky, your podcast ads manager, calls up and goes... I think w- the way people assume the ads work for the show is probably, "Oh, Chris just gets a load of free stuff and money, right?" That's what I think they think. Whereas you kind of then get to sit there with the war, and it's Sky going, "Yeah, they're just not happy with that Instagram story." It's Chris going, "I filmed that one four times now. Why are they not happy with it?" And I go, "Oh, okay. My model before was the Call of Duty, and now I'm seeing the war."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
"So, unless I've seen the war, I'm not envious. And if I, I see the war and I like it, I'm willing to be Napoleon."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- JOJonny
I think when Mark Zuckerberg was on Joe Rogan, he describes, like, his morning. And it's, like, he wakes up and he doesn't look at his phone, because when he looks at his phone, there's just loads of bile-
- CWChris Williamson
All the break news. Yeah. ... government spewing over from-
- JOJonny
And that, that, and he was like, "Oh, God. Like, that never goes away. Like, it doesn't matter how big the business is."
- CWChris Williamson
Just gets more.
- JOJonny
I- i- well, the emails are just worse.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JOJonny
It's the emails that, like, 15 people below you didn't have the answer to.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I think that's another Sam Harris-ism where there will never come a day when you don't have any problems.
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
What, did you think that you were gonna wake up one day and there be no problems? Like, getting to a video game level where there's no more enemies to fight?
- JOJonny
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
No, your problems will change, but having problems will never go away. The, the line from your idea about Call of Duty versus war is nailed by James Clear here. "How many people love the idea of a thing, but not the reality? It doesn't make sense to continue wanting something if you're not willing to do what it takes to get it. If you don't want to live the lifestyle, then release yourself from the desire. To crave the result but not the process is to guarantee disappointment."
- JOJonny
Beautiful.
... beautiful.
- CWChris Williamson
Nailed it.
- JOJonny
Um, Popper has this, uh, idea, um, he's like one of the founding fathers of modern science, that essentially life is problem-solving. And then David Deutsch builds upon his ideas, which is, I guess a few things, but, one, all problems, unless they defy the laws of physics, are fundamentally solvable. But ... So that's the optimistic note. But there's a big caveat there, which is, as soon as you solve a problem, it leads to another problem. So solutions are infinite, but problems are also infinite. So let's say we solved the problem of fire. Okay, now we have the problem of smoke. Okay, we've solved the problem of smoke. We've got a chimney. Okay, now we've got a dirty chimney. Okay, we're gonna ... We solved that problem by getting some children in to clean it. Oh, no, we've got the problem of child labor. And it's just duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, and it's both the beginning of infinity, both for problems and solutions. So life is problem-solving.
- 1:14:17 – 1:22:11
Focusing on Feelings in 2025
- JOJonny
- CWChris Williamson
Very good. Johnny, what have you got?
- JOJonny
I have another lesson, which is ... It's a dad-based lesson-
Episode duration: 2:10:37
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