Modern WisdomOvercoming Low Self-Esteem In Business & Life | Elena Seranova | Modern Wisdom Podcast 186
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
100 min read · 19,774 words- 0:00 – 15:00
You really need to…
- ESElena Seranova
You really need to focus on the positives and, and you really need to accept your situation as well because what I see in a lot of my clients is that they really love complaining and they really love blaming the circumstances for what's happening to them. If you won't take action, nothing will happen, and this is what should motivate you. (whoosh)
- CWChris Williamson
Elena, how are you?
- ESElena Seranova
Yes, I'm very good. Thank you. How are you?
- CWChris Williamson
Very good. Pleasure to have you here. So what are we, what are we gonna be talking about today?
- ESElena Seranova
Okay. So today, I think we're going to be emphasizing the importance of self-improvement and basically growing your confidence in order to achieve better results in both entrepreneurship and personal life, because what happens is that, like, I, I see this very often, um, in my work is that people with low self-esteem, like, just get caught up in negative feedback loops of inaction and failure, and as a result, they can't achieve the results that they want.
- CWChris Williamson
What is your job?
- ESElena Seranova
Okay, so I have, I do have an interdisciplinary background. And, um, I basically, I, I started studying psychology, so my major was in psychology. Then I opened up my first consulting business, which was a successful business for five years, um, and it grew, uh, to a wellness center. I then pursued my master's degree in neuroscience and genetics, and I fell in love with science, so I co-founded a biotech startup after this. And eventually, I ended up doing a PhD in stem cell biology, and at the moment, I'm on my final year (laughs) writing my thesis, and I just launched my third business, which is The Guild of Growth, and I offer one-on-one mentorship for new and aspiring entrepreneurs, uh, on business strategy, mindset of success, and confidence growth.
- CWChris Williamson
Wow, that is ... You are a busy woman.
- ESElena Seranova
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You are a very busy woman.
- ESElena Seranova
Yes, I am indeed.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, so okay, we're talking about confidence, how that relates, how self-esteem relates to people's success, both p- professionally and personally. What are some of the common challenges that you see when you're working with your clients?
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm. So first of all, what happens is that when, when your self-esteem is low, uh, usually you can't even start taking action because of your subconscious blocks and the fact that you think that you're not actually worthy of taking action and improving your situation and, you know, going after the goals that you really want. So it all starts with the feeling of self-worth and the fact that most of people don't actually feel that they're worthy of, of, uh, positive changes in their lives. And the reason behind this is that they actually are not doing anything extraordinary, anything good, in order to prove to themselves and their subconscious mind that they are worthy of a positive change. You know, so it all starts with inaction, and I keep on, um, seeing this again and again, and I, um, I recently tweeted something along the lines that nine out of 10 people around you, they are actually n- they're just doing the bare minimum, okay? So the competition is very, very low. The bar is set very, very low right now.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- ESElena Seranova
And it's crazy because, like, we live in such an amazing era where, like, the whole planet is connected online, and you have access to infinite free resources online in order, you know, to, to get out there and become financially independent and, you know, th- become the best version of yourself, you know? You want to lose weight? There is a bunch of tutorials online. You know, you w- want to make money? There is, like, hundreds of, you know, of ways to make money online nowadays. You just need to actually decide that you want to take action, and then you need to, uh, just basically start. And most people don't even start, and it really hurts me. You know, this is the reason why I started The Guild of Growth because I've been ... So right now, as I said, I'm on my first year of PhD, and so I've been, um, in an academic environment for the m- past, like, three and a half years, and, you know, we've been talking with friends and, you know, colleagues, uh, in academia that have great business ideas, but they have no idea where to start, and they kept on asking me different kind of things. They, they kept on asking me, like, different tips, how to start, where to find the resources to start, how to, you know, like, take a business off the ground. And you know, th- they literally kept telling me, "Elena, okay, you should start a podcast, or you should start a Facebook group or something." And then I realized that, yeah, it's like I do need to kinda, you know, put some, put this knowledge out there because, like, through both my first business, which was, um, running for five years, and my biotech startup, I learned this, this process of basically imperfect massive action and that if you won't start, if you won't take action today, nothing will happen, you know? And it's just so simple, and you've probably heard this before, but, you know, not, not many implement it.
- CWChris Williamson
What surprises me is seeing people ... So you're talking about some of the, uh, uh, other academics that you spend your time with. Like, these people are so competent. They've got-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... so many talents. I'm around-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... tons and tons of people who I look at, I'm like, "Oh my God, like, you're so w- well-educated, wise in a particular discipline, uh, have this, this, this, this, and this." Um, but you're totally correct. If you multiply by zero, and that zero is (snaps fingers) no action-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... then everything that came before hits a very, very hard brick wall, and, um, I love, I love the idea that nine out of 10 people are doing the bare minimum to get by, therefore the bar is set very low. I think you're...... sadly, I think that you're very right. I can't speak for other countries, but certainly in the UK, um, there is, uh, a lack of agency, of upward mobility, of people's desire to become sovereign individuals, you know, and just do their thing. And this doesn't matter. This isn't me saying like, "Oh, everybody should become an entrepreneur."
- ESElena Seranova
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Like this isn't me saying that. It's just me-
- ESElena Seranova
Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
It's just me saying that you can take control of your own growth, either personally or professionally, financially, fitness wise-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... whatever it might be, you are in control. Um, and yeah, I, I, I think, um, you've hit on a, a couple of really interesting points there. So you mentioned that you had a, a, a process, a framework, a plan.
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Can you take us through that?
- 15:00 – 30:00
It's interesting at the…
- ESElena Seranova
tell yourself, "Okay, so it is what it is. Yes, I'm unlucky. You know, my, my parents going through a divorce or, you know, I'm, I'm really unhappy in life now. I'm going through a breakup." Something like this. But if you won't take action, nothing will happen. And this is what should motivate you, because once you realize, like, look, there are people out there that utilizing, like, all the online resources I have access to as well, and, you know, it, it should click and basically you should realize that look, it is what it is and I'll just focus on taking action every single day. And then the second step is, would be to, to be your own accountability partner. And I think that this is another kind of, um, perspective that can only lead to positive outcomes when you realize that you don't need to be disciplined, uh, only when you're supervised, you know. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It's interesting at the moment that we have everyone being released from the world of work, right? They no longer have their boss breathing down their neck.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
They no longer have the structures that disciplined them previously. And, um, to the people who have had to make that nomadic work from home transition, I, um, I feel for you because it took me a decade to work out how to manage myself. And you've just been expected to do it. The, the world stopped. Everyone's like, "Right, go to work from home now." And you're like, "Oh, hang on. What time do I get up? Where do I work from? How do I-"
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"... am I supposed to get dressed? When do I have a coffee? When do I go for a break? Have I worked too much? Have I worked too little?" You know, it's, it's real challenging. Um, there's a, a ton of different things that you went through there that I thought was interesting. I like the idea that, um, your current outcomes being an indicative of your current inputs and that-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah, absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
... if you're not, if you're not getting the outcomes that you want, you have to presume that something is going wrong with the inputs. Now, you're right, there are people out there who get head starts, people who, out there who get... What's the opposite of a head start?
- ESElena Seranova
Uh, that's-
- CWChris Williamson
Whatever that is, whatever that is. A head-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
A bum, a bum start. I don't know, whatever that is, whatever the thing is when they go behind. Like a disadvantage. Um, there's people that have both of those, but that can't be changed. It comes back to the stoic principle of the, uh, dichotomy of control. What can you control? What can't you control? Just do the things that you can. Um, when it comes to the self-esteem, uh, and people blaming circumstance or other bits and pieces, is that just them being able to point the finger at something which isn't their self or is there something going on here, something else going on?
- ESElena Seranova
Um, it's just... The reason that, that they point the fingers to someone else is that they, they're not happy with themselves. And for this reason, they don't want to bear the responsibility because they think that they're unworthy of being responsible for their own life. Okay? So it all comes back to, to this feeling of unworthiness because what they're currently doing is not producing the results that they want so they're, they're just basically give up and this is what separates a winner from a loser. Okay? So a winner just keeps on going, um, until he wins, he or she wins.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm gonna guess that you'll be familiar with the learned helpness, learned helplessness study on dogs?... have you heard this word?
- ESElena Seranova
Oh.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So, this identifies, I think, one of the things that you might be getting at. So it's a very famous study done quite a while ago, um, and dogs were put in a cage and the floor was shocked, so it w- was uncomfortable for the dogs, shocked the dogs. And there was three groups. In the first group, the dogs had a little button that they could press, and if they pressed the button, then it went away. In the second group, the dogs had a button that they could press and if they pressed the button, nothing happened, so they just-
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... kept on getting shocked. And then in the third group, uh, if they pressed the button, uh, sorry, they didn't get shocked at all, right? So three, three different groups of dogs. Roll it forward, second iteration of the study, they're now put into a different cage, different button, same shocks. All three sets of dogs are now shocked. So remember that the third set was never shocked in the first place.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
First set, who had the button that worked, they go over to the button and they press it. The third set, who were never shocked in the first place, they also go over to the button and they push it. But the second group, who the first time the button didn't do anything, they just curled up on the floor and didn't-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... try to go and press the button, despite the fact-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that that button worked. So what that was then moved into was a theory of learned helplessness, and that over time-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... if the world continues to keep on beating you, after a while you just think, "No, this isn't for me. I'm just gonna give up." But that's a natural response.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. It's, it's basically conditioning. So when you're conditioned to certain circumstances, you don't even try and change your circumstances because you think that you don't have, um, control over them. But this is what my, my message basically was, is that what can give you hope and what can give you the willingness to, to try something new, to produce some results, is the realization that you're actually the only person that is in control of their lives. And, you know, y- your situation sometimes is hard to change your situation, but, like, you can change your perspective and you can change what you're getting out of a situation. Okay? So, you know, we have seven peop- seven billion people, uh, on the planet and, you know, u- unfortunately most of them are conditioned to not take action, perhaps because of their family beliefs or perhaps of the fact that they tried something and it didn't work. But if you... And, you know, there is this myth of overnight success, and, you know, we, we, we see articles about successful entrepreneurs and, you know, there, there are some misleading titles saying that, oh, you know, like, entrepreneur A had an overnight success. And it's never an overnight success. This is what my career taught me as well. You know, I had to iterate, I had to go through a lot of, like, difficulties through my career, and, you know, it's never straightforward. And, you know, after running my business, so I'm, I'm originally from Greece, so after running my business, uh, my first business in Greece for five years, I moved to the UK to do my master's degree. And, you know, I was a self-funded student, I wasn't working for a year. At some point my, my savings, uh, ran out. You know, I, I was in a hard situation. And then after completing my master's, I had different kind of options to, to get a job or do something else, and then I found this cool biotech startup that was looking for a co-founder, and I knew that I wouldn't get a salary, but it was, like, it was a priceless experience. I learned so much, you know, and, you know, it was definitely worth it. And, you know, I, I was, I was telling about this experience to a friend of mine, and he said something along the lines, "Oh my God, Elena, you were so brave back then and you took a leap of faith and, like, you didn't even think about quitting or getting a job." And I said that for me, quitting was never an option. And, you know, maybe I have this kind of mindset because I basically was never an employee before, so I started my first business at 22, um, straight after my, my bachelor's degree, and I could... And the reason that I started it and I was looking for different kinds of, you know, opportunities is that, like, I don't know, maybe it's in my blood or something, but I really love a good challenge-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- ESElena Seranova
... and I, I couldn't imagine myself being contained in a 9:00 to 5:00 job.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I get that. I, I wonder, how can someone... 'Cause it, it's all well and good for me and you who've been indoctrinated into this entrepreneurial world since we were teenagers/early 20s, but, you know, someone who's not from this world might just listen to what you're saying there and go, "Well, it's all well and good for you as a super achieving, like, brain box with five degrees and, and, and tech startup and all this sort of stuff, but I'm just, I'm just a normal guy or a normal girl. I don't have this indomitable spirit. I don't have..." That's a really... Indomina- indomita- whatever, that word. Indomitable.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Oh, wow. (laughs) …
- CWChris Williamson
all of the challenge and not seeing any results and unfortunately that is what happens. So I, I use this analogy. This month, so this is the 20th of May when we're recording this episode. Since the beginning of May until now, I've done more plays on Modern Wisdom than I did in all of 2018.
- ESElena Seranova
Oh, wow. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
20 days worth of plays, more than 12 months worth of plays. So, if I had the mindset that I do now with regards to where I pitch the, the exposure for the podcast back then I'd be like, "What am I doing? Why am I putting out an episode a week when it's getting, you know, 1/52 of what I could get in half a month?" You know?
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That, like, why would I be doing that? But again, like...... there's lead measures and there's lag measures. The lead measure will always be uncomfortable. You're going to be getting up early, you're going to be doing, uh, learning things, getting confused online, getting frustrated, realizing that you set the business up with the wrong post code and having to resend the card back. You know, all of those different things. And you're like, "Right, okay, that bit sucks." But if it's just single stepping stones, every mistake is just a lesson that you don't repeat, and you just continue to chew through it, you're like, "I am making progress. I am getting there even if I can't see it."
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. This is how you motivate yourself, by realizing that every mistake is a stepping stone for the next thing that you're going to be r- doing right. And this is like, this is how you can achieve big goals as well, by basically breaking them down in smaller and like mu- much more likely achievable goals, in order for you to, uh, to start having some progress and get those dopamine kicks that will trigger the positive feedback loop.
- CWChris Williamson
I understand.
- ESElena Seranova
This is what I'm, I'm, um, I'm telling my customers as well, is that if you have a certain goal in five years from now to be making, let's say, seven figures, you know, this is a very, very abstract goal, and your subconscious mind probably cannot even imagine it. So, what you do is you ask yourself, "Okay, in order for me to achieve this goal, what do I need to achieve in one year from now?" And then you break this down even further, and you say, "Okay, in six months from now, where do I need to be? How many customers do I need to have in six months from now? So, what does this mean for my even more short term goal of one month? Okay, so in the next 30 days, I have a solid plan of action. I have four weeks, and I need to achieve goal X, Y, and Z, and this is it. And if I don't achieve it, I know that I need to move into a different direction, and I know that I need to test out different things." And this is another, uh, very, very useful trait in entrepreneurship, is that when you're trying things out and you don't wor- and they don't work, it's actually a good thing because you eliminated, um, an assumption that you had before, and now you know that there is a different direction that you need to go into.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- ESElena Seranova
Okay? So, this is actually so, so valuable.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I think, inevitably, because of what we see of other people's conduct, we see the highlight reel. You don't see the failures, or at least you don't see them that much.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Unless it's failure, failure/hustle porn, which is quite common, I guess, in Silicon Valley, but, um-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... yeah, you don't see that. So, you just presume that your failures is you being an idiot, not a normal byproduct of doing a complex thing in a complex world.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. My God, the failures that I've faced so far in especially, you know, in my academy career. So, when I, uh, when I completed my master's degree and I was looking for a, for a PhD project, I got something like 20 rejections. And some of the rejections that, um, uh, I got them even before applying. So, I would just contact the supervisor saying, "Hi. Uh, this is Elena. This is my CV. This is what I did so far, blah, blah, blah. I want a wet lab project. I really love science. I'm in love with molecular biology, but I have a bachelor's degree in psychology." (laughs) And, you know, the, the reply was, "Yeah, yeah, thank you for your consideration, but you don't even need to apply." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Ouch.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah. Uh, so true story there. And then I met my, my current PhD supervisor, and he just, he, he could just see the spark in me and, well, my passion about what I'm doing, which is driven by the, the results that I'm seeing and the impact that I could be having into, you know, like patients' lives and, you know, really benefit as many people as possible with my research. And, you know, he trusted me on this, and here we are, you know. I, I, I haven't even, um, finished my PhD yet and I already have like over like 110 citations or something. You know, it's-
- CWChris Williamson
That's amazing.
- ESElena Seranova
... it's going-
- CWChris Williamson
Congratulations.
- ESElena Seranova
... very good. Thank you.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, yeah, I think this kind of ties into self-esteem certainly, and also one of the reasons that some people might not like to work as hard as they could or put themselves out there, because if you don't bother trying to do something, you always have culpable deniability that you could've made it work but just didn't bother. Whereas if you try and fail, that is a very harsh reflection on your capacity. And because people are unable to detach their sense of self from their sense of success-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... that is essentially the same as the world telling you you are not worthy.
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Not that your business just sucked, or you tried to launch a garden center in the middle of coronavirus, or-
- ESElena Seranova
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You know what I mean? Like-
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- 45:00 – 54:52
Yeah, i- it's... The…
- ESElena Seranova
that, you know, you can't really, um, you know, talk about the things that matter to you that could be business or philosophy or something that could elevate your mind and, you know, can, can make you feel that this, this meeting is useful in, in some way.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, i- it's... The crazy thing as well is to consider that some people find that group of friends straight away. Like that's mad to me, the fact that, you know, you just happen to stumble by chance, let's call it what it is. You know, like you live in halls of residence which is randomly assigned next to some person that ends up being your best mate for the rest of time. I feel very fortunate, my business partner, I sat next to my business partner of 13 years in my first ever seminar. Like that's ju- it's just by chance. But-
- ESElena Seranova
This is amazing, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... conversely, as you've hit the nail on the head there, having friends for the sake of having friends, if they don't bring you up and perhaps even bring you down, if you go away from people feeling like your mind is degraded, y- you would genuinely be better off on your own. And I think this is one of the few times where introverts have a competitive advantage.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I've been talking about this recently to do with COVID that usually in almost all situations, extroverts tend to have a competitive advantage because they're easier to socialize. They can do... put more time in with people. That means that they can, uh, compound their networking effect more quickly. However, there's a few particular situations in which introverts end up having a competitive advantage, and one of them is in being more frugal with their time and not wasting it on people that they don't value, and the other one is when they have to become their own disciplinarians and work on their own, by their own. Uh, and that's obviously happened in COVID as well.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah, absolutely. And, um, I see myself as a phenotypic extrovert. (laughs) So I am-
- CWChris Williamson
What's, what's that? It sounds, that sounds like a kind of mushroom.
- ESElena Seranova
(laughs) No, it's not a mushroom. So phenotype, uh, it's a term in genetics that basically is, like, how something is, um, is seen basically. So in a cell it would be the morphology, the shape of the cell. So this is the cell phyl- phenotype.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- ESElena Seranova
So neurons would have long axons. This is the neuronal phenotype.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay.
- ESElena Seranova
So I call myself a phenotypic extrovert because I'm very, uh, comfortable with socializing and, you know, like having a lot of friends, but actually I do enjoy my alone time. And I think that this also has to do with your self-esteem. So it all comes back with being comfortable, um, being with yourself basically. Because what we see in a lot of extroverts is they actually just, they cannot stand being alone, you know? And they just need a company to fill this void because they have nothing to offer to themselves and they don't really know how to cope with this. And for this reason, I mean, this is not always the case obviously, but, um, you get what I'm saying here. And I think that this is also an art to, to be self-sufficient. And this is something that definitely gives an entrepreneur an unfair advantage whether they are an introvert or an extrovert.
- CWChris Williamson
Absolutely, yeah. I, I, I feel for extroverts who are uncomfortable having the amount of time on their own that they need to do the introspective work and reflection required to develop themselves. Again-
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... you know, to the introverts out there, that is your competitive advantage. The fact that you're perfectly fine spending an- a whole day with just yourself is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to reflect on you, the way that you operate, to read a book and sit and just think about it for 10 minutes while you make yourself a cup of coffee or whatever it might be. Because-... you in a different version, the extrovert version of you, would be ringing a friend while they make the coffee.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
They'd be FaceTiming someone while they make the coffee.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Whereas to you, that feels, to the introvert, that feels like absolute hell and you just want to make your coffee in peace.
- ESElena Seranova
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So, use that time.
- ESElena Seranova
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
You have the opportunity to use this time and, you know, to- to start sort of looping it back to what we said at the beginning. So, you talked about the fact that self-esteem is the foundation.
- ESElena Seranova
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That you need to, um, believe that you are worth more than you are, you need to relate your current outcomes to your current actions. What was next? What came after that?
- ESElena Seranova
Uh, it's basically the, uh, the, um, the ability to keep on iterating.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- ESElena Seranova
And, you know, just keep on going and trying different things because this is how you will inevitably succeed one day, when you'll find the perfect kind of product market fit. Uh, this is a term from Silicon Valley where, you know, a product goes viral basically. So, you just need to- to try different things to see what sticks best, and this is how it's done. And, um, to comment on what you said previously is that sometimes we do hear those success stories of entrepreneurs and, you know, you have the, like, people that knew them back from high school or something saying, "Yeah, um, he or she was just a, such a quiet child and, you know, like, we had no idea. Uh, this overnight success is, like, really came out of nowhere." No, it wasn't overnight success. It was the fact that this person was comfortable just to be focused on their goals.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Yeah, I think as well the- the iterating on your, on projects is an important one because it brings us back to seeing failures as a lesson, not-
Episode duration: 54:53
Install uListen for AI-powered chat & search across the full episode — Get Full Transcript
Transcript of episode 4L7KEaZyadw
Get more out of YouTube videos.
High quality summaries for YouTube videos. Accurate transcripts to search & find moments. Powered by ChatGPT & Claude AI.
Add to Chrome