Reflecting On My Mental Flaws & Strengths | Modern Wisdom Podcast 263

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   No one can beat…

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      No one can beat you at being you. And as I've embraced-

   2. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber0:03

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson0:03

      ... my weirdness and the fact that I don't necessarily fit into an archetype, as-

   4. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber0:08

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson0:08

      ... tons and tons and tons of people do. They all feel this, and they nerf the edges, they round off the edges of the interesting stuff that they do in life, to try and make themselves fit into the bell curve of what normal is. If you're trying to be normal, by definition, you're regressing to the mean.

   6. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber0:21

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson0:21

      Normal people get normal results. Extraordinary people get extraordinary results. We all want, somehow, everybody wants to both be the most popular, most liked person on the planet, and also Elon Musk or Conor McGregor, or one of the Kardashians or something.

   8. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber0:36

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson0:37

      And you think y- you don't get it both ways. Those people have ridiculous outcomes because they have ridiculous inputs. You can choose one, but you can't choose both. This year's been a year of living kind of Groundhog Day over and over again. It doesn't matter how varied your life is, everyone, in one form or another, has had the guardrails brought in on variety in life.

   10. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:00

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson1:01

       And I think what that can cause you to do is probably get into, in the same way as you get into lifestyle patterns habitually, you get into thought patterns as well. And-

   12. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:11

       Hm.

   13. CWChris Williamson1:11

       ... that includes narratives around how you see things going, just how you perceive stuff. I walked back-

   14. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:17

       Yeah.

   15. CWChris Williamson1:17

       ... into my house when I got here, and I looked at the kitchen, and the kitchen looked different. Like, it actually looked like the dimensions of things were different. I was like, "Has something been moved in here?" And it worked out-

   16. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:28

       Hm.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:29

       ... that it hadn't, but I'd been the best part of four weeks since I'd seen it.

   18. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:32

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:32

       And there's a concept that the SAS use called a break point, and it's the moment before they will breach a door. So, they'll get, stack up outside of the door, and that break point there is where they kind of rest, reset, and plan to go in. And, uh, I kinda considered that trip out to Dubai as a little bit of a break point. Um-

   20. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:51

       I like that.

   21. CWChris Williamson1:52

       It's a cool concept, isn't it?

   22. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:53

       I'm very jealous. Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson1:55

       But anyway, we're rolling. So-

   24. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:56

       Really like that.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:56

       ... Charlotte Fox Webber, welcome-

   26. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber1:58

       Okay.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:58

       ... welcome back. You are so much less super pregnant than the last time that we spoke.

   28. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber2:02

       (laughs) It's a pleasure to be here, and I'm, I'm happy to not be pregnant. Although, I have a beautiful baby from it, so-

   29. CWChris Williamson2:10

       You got a, you got a baby out of it, yeah, but you're just-

   30. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber2:12

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Without rushing things along…

   1. CWChris Williamson15:00

      what they want to say or something.

   2. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber15:02

      Without rushing things along or crowding. And I think silence sometimes gives space, but it- it's about dosage, because you don't wanna give someone so much space. I- I went to a therapist once who was just horribly withholding with the silence, and- and it made me feel very uncomfortable. So, I think it's about finding what fits, but letting things emerge. And I guess if you're kind of crowding someone conversationally, I know for me, I, when I get too nervous, I go into question mode, where I use questions as a defense. Not in therapy so much, but in social situations where I just start kind of firing off questions and-

   3. CWChris Williamson15:42

      (laughs)

   4. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber15:43

      ... and it can be a way of hiding. So, I'm really, really interested in what questions say about ourselves. And as a question asker, I'm now turning it on you. So, I'm doing the same thing. I'm very aware. Um, but I'm owning it. And I feel like we have that in common, that we, that we inquire, but where are we in all of that? What does that say about us, and what's it like to- to be asked questions? It- it's give and take. So, it's- it's interesting just to think about where you are in all of this and- and what emerges from it, and- and how you kind of find your sense of self by constantly turning to others. Like, where- where does your voice come through?

   5. CWChris Williamson16:23

      Yeah. Again, I- I honestly think that this last year or so, last 18 months particularly, which has been shaped by this project, you know?

   6. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber16:31

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson16:31

      Again, for all that I say to people to try and find something that they love, to, um-

   8. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber16:37

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson16:37

      ... look at what they did when they were a kid between the ages of eight and 14 and then consider that that, some sort of evolution of that might be their passion as they get later into life, what is it that you can do for just unencumbered joy. Um, for all that I say that it's this kind of bottom up emergent way that you should try and find passion, this show very much has top down affected the person that I am in what I would-

   10. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber17:02

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson17:02

       ... say is a very positive way. Um, but it's like it's dictated or it's influenced the- the path that I've gone in terms of my own personal development. I walk away from the show, and I take so much of this with me.

   12. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber17:14

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson17:14

       I take so much of the way that I operate, uh, and hopefully that comes across, you know? Like, I- I want to be... I- I think this is one of the beauties of having long form conversations that people listen to regularly, you know? It's three or four hours a week of- of me doing this.

   14. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber17:27

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson17:27

       Uh, although it's not usually me talking so much, and it's very hard to hide you in that. And for a very long time, as the listeners probably will be familiar with, I was living this kind of meta-cognizant, uh, playing a role egoic game, and-

   16. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber17:45

       Right.

   17. CWChris Williamson17:46

       ... it shines a very bright light on you, um, when you have to speak this much. And it- it forces you to really think, like, uh, okay, if I'm gonna do this, if I try and play a persona, I'm gonna be exhausted. So, I just need to be-

   18. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber18:00

       Mm-hmm.

   19. CWChris Williamson18:00

       ... rigorous and truthful. Uh, so yeah, it- it's- it's interesting. But again, there's- there's kind of two juxtaposed Christophers here, one of them being the- the one that was probably very selfish up until maybe specifically five years ago, and then, uh, tapering up to like the last sort of two years or so, and then this one, which is very different, at least in terms of conversation.

   20. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber18:23

       Mm-hmm.Do you ever get really tired of asking questions or being curious? Do you get bored and-

   21. CWChris Williamson18:29

       Almost never.

   22. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber18:30

       ... feel like... Wow.

   23. CWChris Williamson18:32

       Almost never.

   24. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber18:32

       So what, what supplies you with curiosity? How do you, how do you keep that source alive?

   25. CWChris Williamson18:41

       I'm not sure. That, I just don't, I don't see any other joy. There is no greater joy to me than linking together two concepts that I didn't previously realize worked.

   26. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber18:50

       Hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson18:50

       Like I'll find something out about the way that social media algorithms work or the way that this particular star gravity time dilation happens when it goes into-

   28. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber19:03

       Hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson19:03

       ... a neutron star or whatever it might be. Like anything, whenever I learn any of this stuff or a little pithy aphorism about life or s- anything, I- I adore it and it makes me incredibly happy. And I think... I wonder how much of that... So here's something that I was gonna, I was gonna bring up with you obviously, with your insights into psychology, was that how much do you think of the personal development world, the personal growth, self-development movement that we're seeing at the moment is people using that to hide from the per- a person that they don't like deep down? So if you say, "I don't like me as I am now-"

   30. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber19:51

       Hmm.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. CWChris Williamson30:00

      feeling a little bit cast out that it's okay, mate, like that it, it genuinely is the truth.

   2. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:05

      Mm-hmm.

   3. CWChris Williamson30:05

      As I've embraced my-

   4. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:07

      Mm-hmm.

   5. CWChris Williamson30:07

      ... um, weirdness and the fact that I don't necessarily fit into an archetype, as tons-

   6. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. CWChris Williamson30:13

      ... and tons and tons of people do, that they all feel this and they nerf the edges, they round off the edges of the interesting stuff that they do in life, to try and make themselves fit into the bell curve of what normal is.

   8. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:24

      Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson30:24

      Um, but as George McGill, a buddy that I went to Dubai with, said, "If you're trying to be normal, by definition, you're regressing to the mean."

   10. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:34

       Mm-hmm.

   11. CWChris Williamson30:34

       Normal people get normal results. Extraordinary people get extraordinary results. Like-... we all want, somehow everybody wants to both be the most popular, most liked person on the planet and also Elon Musk or Conor McGregor or, you know-

   12. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:50

       Right.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:50

       ... like one of the, one of the, like, Kardashians or something.

   14. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:54

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson30:54

       And you think you, you don't get it both ways.

   16. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber30:57

       Yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson30:57

       Those people have ridiculous outcomes because they have ridiculous inputs.

   18. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber31:02

       Right.

   19. CWChris Williamson31:02

       And you can choose one, but you can't choose both.

   20. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber31:04

       Right. So let's go back to you, if we can.

   21. CWChris Williamson31:09

       Cool.

   22. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber31:11

       Um, tell us something disturbing, something surprising. Take a risk. It doesn't have to be the big Trauma with a capital T, maybe trauma with a lowercase t.

   23. CWChris Williamson31:22

       Um, so I've certainly sort of realized a lot, i- kind of following on from what we just said there, realized a lot that the sort of insights that I've got by, by being an outsider are-

   24. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber31:36

       Mm-hmm.

   25. CWChris Williamson31:36

       ... very liberating and very enjoyable. Um, but at the time, just felt like such a curse. Like, I just didn't fit in, I couldn't... I remember I used to think about how other people dressed or, uh, uh, find bizarre quirks in how groups of people that I wanted to, them to like me, what I thought it was they were doing that was binding them together as a group is like, "Oh, it's because they were all wearing, like, skinny jeans and I was wearing loose-fitting jeans." Or, "It's because they all walked this way to school or I walked that way to school," or whatever it might be. Um, and I think that for a long time, I was just confused by a lack of acceptance.

   26. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber32:16

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson32:16

       Especially as a young kid. And again, without necessarily a brother or a sister or someone who's kind of either always got your back and/or can teach you the common rules of socializing.

   28. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber32:28

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson32:29

       Um, that was, that's really only something kind of like realizing the impact that my childhood had on me is very, very much only something that I've come back to. And-

   30. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber32:41

       Mm-hmm.
4. 45:00 – 59:31

   I know. …

   1. CWChris Williamson45:00

      aphoristic, cerebral, psychological solution to this also doesn't work because you're not thinking sufficiently clearly to be able to-

   2. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:13

      I know.

   3. CWChris Williamson45:14

      ... to lean on that. My-

   4. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:15

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson45:15

      George, again, tweeted something that said, "Uh, telling someone to think their way out of overthinking is like telling someone to snort their way out of a cocaine addiction."

   6. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:23

      Mm-hmm. That's very smart.

   7. CWChris Williamson45:25

      (laughs)

   8. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:25

      I like that. Mm-hmm.

   9. CWChris Williamson45:28

      Um...

   10. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:29

       So disputing it really doesn't help, as much as-

   11. CWChris Williamson45:32

       Because it feels like that. And that's, that's the thing, I think, as well, that even, even with a drug addiction, people can see from the outside in, you know? Like, they can see that there's, there's some sort of physical dependency going on here. If they took me in a lab and they measured me, they'd know there was something wrong.

   12. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:50

       Mm-hmm.

   13. CWChris Williamson45:50

       Or if I was actually s- skint or I, I would run out of money, or if I was actually broken a bone or, you know, destitute-

   14. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber45:57

       Mm-hmm.

   15. CWChris Williamson45:57

       ... whatever it might be, it would feel more legitimate. I think it's the lack of legitimacy, this-

   16. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:03

       Oh, yeah.

   17. CWChris Williamson46:03

       ... bizarre bourgeois fucking (laughs) um-

   18. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:09

       You don't feel you have the right to complain.

   19. CWChris Williamson46:11

       Yeah, who am I, who am I to feel sad?

   20. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:13

       Mm-hmm.

   21. CWChris Williamson46:13

       And, yeah, that, um, that was something that I think was difficult to swallow as well.

   22. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:21

       Mm-hmm.

   23. CWChris Williamson46:21

       Because even the stories that were given of depression a- are these ones of grandeur.

   24. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:26

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson46:26

       Uh, I had this conversation with a, a, a buddy, one of the, uh, very early episodes, a guy called Mike Kaju, and, um, I asked him whether or not he thought... He, he was addicted to heroin and cocaine by the age of 14, he was an alcoholic by the age of 16.

   26. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:41

       Mm-hmm.

   27. CWChris Williamson46:42

       And, um, he bounced back to now be the CEO of this hugely successful company, he won the CrossFit Games twice. Um, but I asked him if he hadn't hit rock bottom, whether he would still be there.

   28. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber46:53

       Mm-hmm.

   29. CWChris Williamson46:53

       And it's this not, not good, not great, not average, but just sort of ambient dissatisfaction with life-

   30. CFCharlotte Fox-Weber47:05

       Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 59:32