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Sargon Of Akkad | Why Are We Facing A Crisis In 2020?

Sargon Of Akkad is a British political commentator and a YouTuber. 2020 has had some serious history occur, and we’re only halfway finished. I wanted to get Carl on to try and cut through the mud and work out just why everything has come to a head. Extra Stuff: Subscribe to Sargon on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCitU2-w3XE8ujvUZjcAnhIg Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ #sargonofakkad #socialjustice #chriswilliamson - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Carl Benjamin (Sargon of Akkad)guestChris Williamsonhost
Jul 21, 20201h 12mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 0:30

    Western civilization in “Fall of the Republic” territory

    1. CA

      It's totally valid to feel like we're in sort of Fall of the Republic territory here, because we are. I mean, this is, uh, you know, probably something like crisis of the third century if we're comparing Western civilization to Rome. Uh, so we've pro- we've- I think we probably do have a couple hundred years left to go. Uh, but I think it's evident that whatever we've been doing to bring us to this point is leading us on a path to destruction. (wind blows)

  2. 0:30 – 1:24

    Demonetization, political correctness, and creator punishment

    1. CW

      Are you the most demonetized man on the internet?

    2. CA

      Um, (laughs) possibly. Uh, well, I mean-

    3. CW

      (laughs)

    4. CA

      ... a lot, a lot of people have also been demonetized, so, uh, y- not including The Federalist, though, apparently.

    5. CW

      (laughs)

    6. CA

      They just had to turn off their comments section at Google's behest, otherwise they would've been. But yeah, Zero Hedge, Steven Crowder, myself, and a bunch of other people, Count Dankula, you know, we've- we all get demonetized because we say things that are not very politically correct, I suppose.

    7. CW

      It's happened twice-

    8. CA

      But-

    9. CW

      ... to you now though, right?

    10. CA

      It has. Yeah.

    11. CW

      So what- what was the-

    12. CA

      Three times, actually. Actually, four times now I think about it. (laughs)

    13. CW

      (laughs) You are- dude, that's the title. That title is yours to take.

    14. CA

      I know. (laughs) It's happened a lot. Um, it's- it's just because I talk about things that the progressives also talk about, but I don't talk about them in a progressive way. And so, I'm a bad person.

  3. 1:24 – 4:25

    Channel throttling, “quarantines,” and the tightening noose on platforms

    1. CW

      So what's the current make up of your YouTube-iverse at the moment?

    2. CA

      Uh-

    3. CW

      'Cause you've got multiple channels, right?

    4. CA

      Yeah, the only one I really use at the moment is a Cad Daily, 'cause I'm currently setting up a website, um, to do the same sort of things through. Um, and I'll start a podcast and other things after I've done that, so I'm just using this one at the moment.

    5. CW

      Got you. And then you've still got the- like, the old archived-y one, the grandfathered one?

    6. CA

      Yeah, yeah, but, um, YouTube have, uh, quarantined it in some way. So w- and- and I tested this the other day. On my new channel, uh, I've got 300,000 subscribers, and if I put up a video, within the first, like, 18 hours, I'll have a million impressions and something like 200,000 views. Um, and on my old channel, I put it up, and in the first 18 hours, I had about 100,000 impressions. And- and that's got nine hund- that's got three times the subscriber base as my new channel, and yet it'll get something like, you know, a tenth of the views. And it's crazy, 'cause I'm- I'm- my content isn't, I don't think, markedly different. My audience still seems to be there. So it seems very much that the channel itself has been throttled in some way. So I guess I just have to leave it, you know?

    7. CW

      I love the idea of a quarantine channel.

    8. CA

      Yeah, well, it happened to Tommy Robinson as well. And it's- it's happened to a few. Um, but these days, they're just outright taking them down. Uh, there- there have been, um, people who, uh- (coughs) excuse me, um, people who are more- much more extreme than me, who, uh, have been slowly the- the noose has been tightening, and now we've come to conservative channels because all of the alt-right or anything like that, they're all gone now. Uh, they're all on different platforms. So the noose is just growing tighter, and, uh, you can see that people get targeted before they get removed as well. Like Katie Hopkins and Milo had their blue check marks removed from their- verification check marks on Twitter removed, which is weird because it just kind of shows that it's not about verification. It's about privilege, then, isn't it? I mean, Milo and Katie didn't stop being Milo and Katie.

    9. CW

      (laughs)

    10. CA

      And no one thought that they did. You know, and since they- they were public figures of note, you would think that it would be important for the public to easily identify them, but apparently not. That's-

    11. CW

      It was a warning shot across the bow, then?

    12. CA

      Yeah, I think, uh, yeah, it is. And I th- I think, I mean, Facebook actually has an active list of, uh- I can't remember exactly what they call the list, but essentially it just translates to wrong thinkers. Uh, I'm actually on it, and a lot of other people were on it who have been removed. I don't know how I still have a Facebook presence. But I mean, I don't say anything that's- that's wrong, you know, or crazy or even bigoted or anything like that, you know. I don't even make jokes anymore, um, because you can't have any fun on the internet anymore apparently.

    13. CW

      But increasingly, I've noticed that your stuff appears to be more and more you kind of treading... It sounds a little bit sometimes like you are treading on ice.

    14. CA

      Well, we are. There's very much a Sword of Damocles hanging above our heads, and it's fallen a few times and cut me already. So, uh... (laughs)

    15. CW

      (laughs) You've got the scars to prove it, yeah.

  4. 4:25 – 8:21

    Garage creators vs. corporate media: who counts as ‘mainstream’?

    1. CA

      Yeah, (laughs) exactly. I've got the scars to prove it. That's right. Um, so yeah, I, uh, I just have to- have to be... The- the thing that's really interesting is the way this all worked out, 'cause I- I can't help but notice that you're in your house in your bedroom-

    2. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CA

      ... uh, doing this. And I began in very much the same way. I just had a one bedroom flat, and I was just doing it in my living room, you know, because at- at the time, I was unemployed, so I just went, "Well, I may as well." And it gr- it took off. Um, I now have a converted garage as my office. But, uh, you know, I started in very much the same position, and it's interesting how we're being held to the same standards as something like CNN or Fox News, you know, giant organizations with hundreds of employees. And we're being held to the same standards, which really makes you wonder why they need all of that to do their jobs, doesn't it? You know, if it's so easy that just c- you know, guys in- in their homes can do as effective a job, then maybe, uh- maybe there's a- there's a veil that they're hiding behind.

    4. CW

      This was a point that Eric Weinstein made on Joe Rogan's podcast better than I've heard anyone make it, and what he said was that people refer to the mainstream media now.

    5. CA

      Mm.

    6. CW

      That's like the- the CNN, the BBCs-

    7. CA

      Yep.

    8. CW

      ... so on and so forth. But it's like-

    9. CA

      Corporate media.

    10. CW

      ... hang on a second. If this podcast, me and you, Joe Rogan, or me and you, if this gets 100 million views, which would be great, uh, but if this gets 100 million views, and CNN puts a video up, and it gets 500,000 views, who's mainstream media now? Now, you can call them traditional media.

    11. CA

      Mm.

    12. CW

      Traditional media is a nice word. But they don't want that because mainstream's a signal. Mainstream is we are the arbiters of truth, we are the ones-

    13. CA

      It's-... it, it, it is, it, what- what- what we mean when we say mainstream isn't really the view counts and it hasn't been for a while, and that's why we're being treated as competitors to them. Uh, but what they're talking about is approved, is the approved media, the approved gateways, the-

    14. CW

      The ratified ones.

    15. CA

      Yeah, exactly. The- the people ... And the thing is, because it is all a system that interlocks, you can- (coughs) sorry. You can understand why they would want such a thing because it puts them all essentially on the same team when it comes to certain issues. Uh, the, for example, the BBC, they brag about how everyone still comes to the BBC when they want to get, you know, the- the coronavirus information. It's like, okay, that's true, but you are also a privileged source because of your access. The politicians make the platforms as much as the platforms make the politicians. Uh, if politicians wanted, they could just refuse to do interviews with any of the media and just do interviews on their own YouTube channels using a smartphone or something. You know, they could say, "Look, here's the questions I want to answer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thanks very much." And then the media would have to extract from that. And then they would just be (laughs) just like anyone else. But it's access that they have, and this, it, this, it's a two-way street. They, there are, there, it's, from, (laughs) from my time dealing with all of this, and I've- I've met a few, uh, very interesting people in my time, it's very much about who you know 'cause there's no shortage of people, there's a shortage of trust. And so it's about making, uh, creating, like, webs of trust between people. And, uh, and it's very ... Uh, and the thing is, I don't see how it could operate any other way. That's the problem, uh, because you've got too many people who are pulling at you, I would say. So I think it's probably inevitable it's gonna work that way. But yeah, so e- essentially, when you're someone like me and you come from it from the complete outside, you know, I didn't- I didn't have any of this, um, I can see why they hate us, you know? (laughs)

    16. CW

      (laughs)

    17. CA

      I can (laughs) really see-

    18. CW

      Some guy in his garage.

    19. CA

      ... why they hate. (laughs)

    20. CW

      Some guy in his garage, yeah.

    21. CA

      (laughs) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and, 'cause we can say things that they can't say. We can challenge narratives they don't dare challenge. Um, and they'll punish us for it. That's what they're doing.

  5. 8:21 – 9:56

    Platform consolidation fears: Rogan/Spotify and building independence

    1. CW

      I think the long-term move of Joe Rogan to Spotify, I had a chat with, uh, guy from Podcast Notes earlier on who understands the infrastructure very cleverly.

    2. CA

      Oh, yeah?

    3. CW

      And, um, he thinks that the long-term goal for Spotify with podcasting will be something similar to what Netflix has done, that if you signal to all of the big players, get the big players on board, play count goes up, easier views are available on there, they can monetize more highly. Then once they get a critical mass of podcasters across, that's where you need to go to put your podcast on to get the plays. Then once you're there, they can start to squeeze down the earning potential. Now, I hope that it's not as Orwellian as that, and I also think the one, um, the final bastion, like, the last stand that you have as a content creator is you giving your word that you agree with the particular advert. So the difference in-

    4. CA

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... conversions on a dynamic versus a host read is huge. It's like 4X basically. So Joe Rogan's saying, "I'll, I use this-"

    6. CA

      "I endorse," yeah.

    7. CW

      "... CBD," blah-

    8. CA

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      ... uh, versus it being, "Have you got your new copy of Learning and Housewife Magazine from WHSmith's?"

    10. CA

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      "Get your first ..." You know, it just doesn't convert as well. So I think that's-

    12. CA

      Yep.

    13. CW

      ... maybe the chink in the armor, but that could be long term, you know?

    14. CA

      Yeah, I mean, oh, this, honestly, this is part of the reason why I'm setting up my own site, you know, so I don't have to be reliant on any one host or anything like that. Um, but it's-

    15. CW

      As long as you don't turn into Brian Rose from London Real. That would make me-

    16. CA

      I don't know who that is, sorry.

    17. CW

      Good. That is, that is the n- the most blissful situation that you could hope to be in, my friend.

    18. CA

      (laughs) I'll- I'll try and keep it that way. (laughs)

  6. 9:56 – 13:08

    How to explain 2020: protests as a broader revolutionary project

    1. CW

      Y- yeah, that would be great. Okay, so meat of it, how would you describe 2020 to someone that had been in a coma since Christmas?

    2. CA

      Um, well, I mean, it- it's not really very different to what I've been saying this whole time. It's just that here is all come to fruition. I mean, it's- it's really weird listening to, um, mainstream voices basically sound like my 2017 videos, and it's really interesting that essentially everything I was saying, th- this is not just, um, what- what we are seeing is not just people complaining about police brutality, right? This is fundamentally a- a communist revolution that has been brewing in academia, teaching a generation to think that capitalism and the West is evil, and this gives them moral license to tear it all down. I mean, a statue of George Washington was torn down in Portland the other day, uh, 'cause apparently he was a, a slave-owning racist. And it's like, well, I mean, uh, you know, the United States is gonna be tainted by this original sin that it can never overcome, ex- and obviously we are as well. And so this- this just means that these people have an emotional, um, sort of disposition against the thing that they're attacking. Like, they- they, I don't think they'll ever be able to become patriotic again because they've been emotionally conditioned to hate that thing, you know? And like, it, they, the demands they're going to make are also going to be insane, which they are. Uh, like demanding (laughs) get rid of the police and things like this. And you'll see, hear people say, "Oh no, we just want to, you know, police reform." Bullshit. You know, the- the activists, the radicals, the people who are actually driving this are quite open. They want to get rid of the police. And that would be, I mean, there- there have been examples of police going on strike and it within hours devolves into an anarchic situation. And we can see from the CHAZ or the CHOP as they're calling it now, uh, that this isn't exactly a productive way of life, is it? You know, we have law and order and justice, uh, you know, judiciary and a government for a reason. Uh, you know, as- as evil as they can be at times, we still do need them in general, you know? So, um...... basically, we have to understand that this is a communist revolution that we are watching, which is why they do all the same things as previous communist revolutions, like setting up a commune, you know, uh, tearing down the established order, the statues of the established order. And they're just very open about saying they want to get rid of capitalism. Like, Black Lives Matter did a fundraiser in the UK that's probably earned over a million pounds now. It was 750 when I last looked at it. And on the, on the first line, it's like, "We're here to demantle ca- dismantle capitalism, imperialism, white supremacy, hetero patriarchy," and stuff like that. And people looking at Nigel Farage, and Farage is, is finally saying, "Well, look, these people are actually communists who are here to take over capitalism." Uh, which I was saying. (laughs) And everyone's like, "Well, you can't prove him wrong, can you?" You know, it's in the first line.

  7. 13:08 – 20:08

    Communism as moral religion—and the Robin DiAngelo ‘whiteness’ frame

    1. CW

      None of that stuff, none of that stuff sounds to me like the first, the best way to progress black people in this world.

    2. CA

      (laughs) It's not the best way to do anything. It's, that's the problem. The, the, the problem with communism is it's a religion masquerading as an economic system. Like, nobody would want... No- nobody would question what side is more productive. Like, when the Soviet Union fell, they, Americans sent economists over there to do an analysis, and they basically found that they were earning about half as much as they could be, just given what they had. It's just the, the means of distribution being centralized and top-down, demolish any kind of incentive. Like when you take away the security of the protection of your own private property, you've got no reason to get up every day and start building something. You know, why would you, if it's just gonna be taken away from you? And so it's very difficult to motivate people. Um, and it's obvious that this is the case, but it's not about that. What it's about is establishing something that they can feel is perfect and moral, because it's all predicated on morality. Like, it, like they'll say things like, "Capitalism will never end inequality." Well, no, that's true, but inequality is such a fundamental part of diversity that why would it even be desirable to do that? If we were all equal, we'd have to be all the same and therefore there's no diversity. Like, there's natural difference. There's always going to be people at different heights. And if you want everyone to be the same, then your only option is the lowest common denominator, because you can't raise up people who aren't gonna be raised, and you'll have to pull down people who otherwise wouldn't stay at the bottom rung. Um, but yeah, so essentially, we have to deal with it in these terms. It's, it's a moral crusade that the communists are on, and they literally don't think there's anything moral about our system, which they've pathologized as whiteness.

    3. CW

      Even if it's not necessarily white. It's, there's a number-

    4. CA

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... of black people that can be on that other side of the fence, it's if you don't agree with a particular ideology. So-

    6. CA

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      ... how, how has this year fitted together? How do you think that coronavirus contributed to this, or Trump being impeached, or the impending general election, the, uh, American presidential election? Have you got some sort of conception of how that fits together? Does it even all fit together?

    8. CA

      Well, I think the, the coronavirus, um, I, I don't know. You get people saying, "Oh, this probably accelerated things." Well, maybe. I, I, I, you know, I honestly, I don't think anyone can really be sure of that. So I'm not gonna suggest that's an, uh, causal factor, especially as I don't think it needs to have been in play to be a causal factor. Um, it could just be that it set the stage, but I th- but the tinder... You know, you know, like but the tinder was already there, you know, it was already ready for the match to be flicked into it. Maybe it just packed it in more tightly so the explosion was bigger or something. But like the... What, what we've been seeing is the results of a consistent pattern of activism from a consistent set of beliefs that have recognizable public figures that are, as adherents and thought leaders. Uh, Robin DiAngelo is the person who's like trending in these spheres at the moment. Her book, White Fragility, was a number one. So it's... And it's worth reading, because it's unapologetic. I mean, I made, I was reading it earlier, I made some notes. Hang on, let me just read you a quick line or something from it, because it's just crazy. Um, the, the (laughs) the, the whole point, um, is she thinks she's saying to white people what people of color can't tell us, and she views white culture as being like... And she just says white because it's in the American context, but she's talking about the sort of Anglo-Saxon, Protestant European culture that America was founded on because it was the English colonies. Um, she views that as a kind of ethnic attack on non-white people. That's what whiteness is and that's what white supremacy is. The-

    9. CW

      Just by existing?

    10. CA

      Ju- not, not just by existing. Uh, but yes, it is just by existing. But the, it's in the way that it is different to these other cultures. It's, uh, individualistic and meritocratic, for example. These are the two big pillars that she uses about whiteness. Um, which, yeah, it would be. You would expect that. It's, it comes from England, which was an individualistic society, and it's meritocratic because it's a Protestant society. It's very geared around personal hard work. Uh, there's, there's been a, like, a, a moral tradition in England, you know. You, you, and it infects every part of the culture. So like, you know, when you're poor, you are ashamed of being poor because the implication in the English moral system is that you've been lazy, right? Is that you are a free man, you know. The, this is, this was the point of being a free man, is that you had control of your life. And if you're poor, that means you're not working very hard, right? That's... I'm not saying it's the case, it's just the moral implication of the thing. Um, and so that's why there's shame attached to being poor in, in English cultures. Um, but the, the whole structure, the, uh, the individualistic meritocratic, that is a form of racism in and of itself. That's the racist thing, and that's what white Europeans do in America, and therefore-... whiteness, which is the desire for an individualistic meritocratic culture, needs to be destroyed. And what she's doing is trying to create a kind of white identity that is effectively laden with the presumably Catholic guilt that Ms. DiAngelo has, held over from her, uh, her parents, and load this identity onto people saying, "Look, whiteness is a form of oppression. It is inherently racist. You need to, you know, understand that you're someone who perpetuates it by having standards, by wanting to be treated like an individual." To be, you know, to be concerned about merit, to be concerned about skill, in the things that are going on, rather than arbitrary and i- and expressly identity politics categories. She- she's just open in saying, "No, I'm arguing from identity politics for white people." So in many ways she's actually very similar to Richard Spencer, 'cause that was exactly his message.

    11. CW

      (exhales) I- I-

    12. CA

      Do you want to become a Nazi? That's your option. DiAngelo is offering it, and I'm saying no to that. (laughs)

    13. CW

      (laughs)

    14. CA

      No. No way. I'm not becoming a white identitarian, even if it comes laden with guilt and I have to prostrate myself. I mean, this is why, this is why you're seeing, you know, um, the CEO of Chick-fil-A shining a Black guy's shoes on stage. So, oh yeah, brilliant, shoe shining, forced racial shoe shining. That's the path to racial harmony, isn't it? You know, I mean that's the... surely the thing you're saying that was done wrong in the past? And yet they're like, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna sh-" No, we're not shining each other's shoes, okay? We're not doing that. That's totally disrespectful, which is what you were objecting to, (laughs) you know? And so we're not gonna do it and somehow make recomp- recompense or reparations out of this.

    15. CW

      So th-

    16. CA

      Like, this... humiliating.

  8. 20:08 – 23:08

    Performative corporate speech, fear-driven compliance, and hollow messaging

    1. CW

      The thing which has sort of struck me the most has been how performative some of the communication has been-

    2. CA

      Yes.

    3. CW

      ... from everybody.

    4. CA

      Yes.

    5. CW

      And that, that no matter what your goal is, no matter what your viewpoint is, communication should be honest, not performative.

    6. CA

      Yes.

    7. CW

      Because as soon as you start to do that, you can't tell who the, the, where the truth's coming from, who actually cares, who doesn't care. And all the things that we need to talk about most are precisely the things that we can't talk about.

    8. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CW

      And until we are allowed to have a nuanced conversation, the- w- w- how do you even move forward?

    10. CA

      I, I think y- you make a really interesting point about performative, uh, conversations. And I, I totally agree with you. I think a lot of them, especially from the corporations, uh, for example, Discord today published a thing saying, "Oh, we're gonna do our part against the fight against whiteness. Um, and we're gonna start policing your chats and stuff. So if there's anything we consider to be problematic, we're coming after it, we're gonna get it." Um, and that's really interesting, isn't it? 'Cause it, uh, like, what does that do? You know, that doesn't make less racist. It does seem entirely performative. And like you're saying, it, it, it f- it feels hollow because communication is usually not done, uh, (laughs) essentially from compulsion, you know? Like, it, it seems that these people are not speaking from a real and true conviction. It seems that they're watching everyone else thinking, "Jesus Christ, we better do something or we're gonna get fucking pow." Uh, "So here we go." And so y- you've got... 'cause communication, when a, when two people are talking, there's loads of different factors that go into the tone and the, the, the message. You've got the sense, you've got the tone, you've got the actual words spoken, the logical structure, the semantic construction of the sentence. There's a lot that goes into us communicating. And yet when these people come out and give their kind of, "Oh, we, we are for diversity. Diversity is our strength." It sounds very hollow and very forced. There's, you know, there's, there's no human connection to it. That's why it feels like corporate speak, what you're hearing.

    11. CW

      Well, so much of it's like hostage, gun-to-the-head stuff.

    12. CA

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. CW

      Which, to me, like... I don't know. If I was... I was gonna say, if I was the head of Black Lives Matter, but th- they don't, th- there isn't a, there isn't a single figurehead. There is, they're so distributed that you can't, you can't deal with someone, which I, I'd love to get your thoughts on-

    14. CA

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      ... in a second. But like, if I was someone who genuinely cared about Black Lives Matter, and I got a guy who works for me who's actually a really cool guy from Canada who said, "I don't like the way that stuff's being done over here. I, I've proposed to my university that I'm going to kind of take on, uh, try and move this movement forward." And I was like, "Man," like, you know, "good look to you. It's gonna be a-"

    16. CA

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      "... it's gonna be a challenge, but good look to you." But like, if I was watching that, I wouldn't think, "Great, we've, we've got another ally." I'd think, "Hang on a second, I don't trust that person."

  9. 23:08 – 28:35

    Deeper philosophical schism: objective reality vs sovereign will

    1. CA

      Um... (laughs) Yeah. I... Th- there's a, there's a fundamental disconnect in the way that the world views are being approached. And this is, like if, if anyone considers themselves a, essentially a conservative, uh, y- this is the thing that you really have to bear in mind. Um, the, the intersectional left, which are the, the people who... that, that's a, an umbrella term that will broadly describe Black Lives Matter, feminism, Antifa, you know, the other communists you see on TV, um, and people who are parroting the same talking points in the same way as them. Uh, they have a view of a human being that's just very different to your own. Uh, most... uh, I, I, I'm gonna get a little bit esoteric here, but like, most people, uh, have a kind of unitary view of a human being. The human being is, you know, you are your body, you have certain properties that are created by your body, which is your strength, how high you are, how tall you, how far can you jump. And it also includes your brain. And people understand that the brain's a biological organ, and, and that's the source of your consciousness, your will, right? And so most people will understand that there is a biological connection between what you think and what you are. And you'll s- you'll notice in like your moods, you know? You, you see people when they take, uh, when they transition and they start taking hormones, they, they speak about their dispositions, the way they feel becomes different. And that's totally normal because the brain is a biological, uh, piece of, uh, uh, you know, part of an organism, and it's affected by reality. And so most people don't think that the will has...... like this, this sacred sovereignty and the, the will is being constrained by the body, most people just kind of ... And without, you know, without articulating it like this, but that's the assumptions that they'll make, is that, you know, you, you've ... You're, you're all a part of a biological organism. But if you look at left-wing philosophy at the moment, it's ... Oh, I've got this the wrong way round, but anyway. Um, the, the ... If you look at left-wing philosophy at the moment, they, they take a totally different approach. Like what, what is it for a, a regular person to identify a woman? They'll say an adult human female, right? But that's a transphobic definition, because that means that it can't simply be that a person identifies as a woman to be a woman. And that's a very, very interesting dichotomy because adult human female is very much based in biology. It's very much based in, in the, the presence of a person, you know. It's an objective category. I can look and see that you're an adult, I can see you're a human, I can see you're a female. Or I could check if ... Maybe. Um, but I, I can objectively determine that. However, what you choose to be is only in your head and it grants licence to the idea that the thoughts, the consciousness, are somehow the supreme sovereign over everything. That's the most important thing. Um, and I don't ... And, and I, I realise that, that this is a very esoteric way of looking at it, but what that does is, is it makes it transcendental. It means it's not connected to the biology. The biology is actually holding it back rather than being a, it being a product of the biology. And so you end up getting people saying, "Well, if I, if I will that I am a woman one day, then I should become a woman." And it's like, okay. (laughs) I mean, like I, I don't wanna ... I'm not trying to be mean or anything. And I know that ... I, I agree that gender dysphoria was a, is a, you know, a, a problem that a person has. But that doesn't mean that the will is just correct, you know. We ... It's, it's ... There is a biological process that has not gone right to produce that result because it's an imperfect system. But the will itself, just 'cause it's ... You know, there, there's conditions that make it feel a certain way, it's not completely free and so we can't just treat it as autonomous, right? But they are treating it as autonomous. "Oh, I will that I'm a woman. I will that I'm this. I will that my ..." It's like, yeah, okay. You know, you can say that. But, you know, objective reality has a different opinion. And the, the b- the big schism between the two is whether you are a kind of person who believes in objective reality, which means we're rooted in biology and rooted in things that we can touch, or are we actually, you know, sovereign wills that are trapped within this fleshy form, you know? So that's ... I, I, I realise that that's, that's probably ... It sounds silly to people who aren't really thinking deeply about all of this. But that's essentially the philosophical basis, I think.

    2. CW

      The manifestation of the will, the manifestation of that inner soul somehow-

    3. CA

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... that is what it is. Yeah, um-

    5. CA

      Well, just to explain very, ver- ... Yeah. The, like, the ... It, it comes basically from continental philosophy and it, it comes essentially from the idea that the will ... That there can be a perfectly good will, and a perfectly good will can only be something that's not contingent on reality, 'cause it would have to be true in all times and places basically. Um, and that ... It's a, it's a very, uh, continental way of looking at it and it's not a very British way of looking at it. Brit- It's a very idealistic way of looking at it. Uh, but the, the, the English-speaking world has always been very empirical, uh, and not really given to tremendous flights of fancy. Um, and that's essentially the, the major difference that we're looking at here.

    6. CW

      Yeah.

    7. CA

      And so it's not a surprise that the English-speaking world is looking at this thinking, "What the hell is going on?" Because (laughs) it doesn't make any sense to them, you know. It's, it's, it's, uh, it's annoying frankly.

  10. 28:35 – 33:11

    Comedy takedowns and ‘context collapse’ in the culture war

    1. CW

      What's your views on the recent removal of Fawlty Towers, German episode?

    2. CA

      (laughs) Um, it's been decades since I've seen it. But if I recall correctly (laughs) , wasn't that mocking racism? Like, wasn't that the point of it?

    3. CW

      I'm not sure.

    4. CA

      I'm absolutely certain that the point ... I, I ... Like, like I said, it's been decades since I've watched it, but I'm sure that the point of the episode is to mock some guy who is being racist all the time and to show him as being the backwards buffoon that he clearly was. Um, but yeah, nothing, nothing's safe. And, uh, you know what's interesting is who asked for it? Who asked for them to take these things down, you know? This is, this is the very interesting thing. It wasn't the-

    5. CW

      Germans don't strike me as the sort of group that are vetting ... I don't know what Ger- I don't know the German culture that closely, but they don't strike me as the sort of social justice-y type.

    6. CA

      Uh, there's probably a bit more social justice in there than you think.

    7. CW

      Really?

    8. CA

      Um, oh, yeah. I lived in Germany for eight years. Like qu- They, they, they, they're quite systematic thinkers. Um, but it, it wasn't Germans that got it pulled. It wasn't even because of Germans. Uh, it was because the guy said the N-word in it. Um, because in the sev-

    9. CW

      Did he?

    10. CA

      Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Made in the '70s. So-

    11. CW

      I don't remember that happening.

    12. CA

      I'm s- I'm s- I, I think ... I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did. I, like I said-

    13. CW

      Tell us in the comments below.

    14. CA

      Yeah, yeah. It's been decades since I've seen it, but I'm sure he says the N-word in it. But that's part of the ridiculousness of the character, you know. That's part of what you're meant to be laughing at, um. But yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't Germans that got it pulled down, but it was g- it was people who were un- aware that the mob on Twitter has certain trigger points and one of those is the N-word. The other one is blackface, you know. The, uh ... So a bunch of things were taken down that had people doing blackface. And again, the joke is not at the expense of Black people, it's the expense of the character doing the blackface. But it doesn't matter. The context is all gone now. None of that matters.

    15. CW

      I mean, Bo' Selecta was shite when it came out.

    16. CA

      Yes. (laughs)

    17. CW

      Like that should have been taken down for just being shit. Like forget-

    18. CA

      Yes.

    19. CW

      ... forget the implications of social justice.

    20. CA

      But that's whiteness. That's white meritocratic view, isn't it?

    21. CW

      Well, Avid Maron was just wank.

    22. CA

      (laughs)

    23. CW

      Like regardless, regardless of that.

    24. CA

      Yeah, he was.

    25. CW

      I never liked that. And man, like how dare you, how dare you make your career off the back of Craig David who it must've murder- And I know for a fact that he's had a conversation with Lee-... what's he called? The fella that- Avid Marion guy, the guy that's like three layers behind the person that was-

    26. CA

      Yeah. Yeah.

    27. CW

      ... Craig David, that guy. Um, and, uh, then Craig had this amazing resurgence of a career, like, what, for sort of four or five years ago, something like that. Did that song and then Justin Bieber remix and blah, blah. And now he's selling out at Beta, doing all this stuff. But his career, make no mistake about it, his career stopped because of that character.

    28. CA

      Yeah.

    29. CW

      That's why his career tanked. Like, uh, eh, forget the social justice side of stuff, that's one man bearing the brunt. Uh, the- he's the tip of a very, very, very long spear, right?

    30. CA

      Mm-hmm.

  11. 33:11 – 38:35

    Disclaimers, scalp-taking, and the ‘competitive’ cleansing of media

    1. CW

      But is, is this the new world now? Have we permanently brought the guard rails in on the type of content that's going to be produced publicly?

    2. CA

      Um, yes, until there's a counterrevolution. Uh, the, the social justice types are revolutionaries, openly so. They'll tell you. I mean, Bernie Sanders has been leading this and he's been calling it a revolution. He wrote a book called Our Revolution, you know. I mean, he's not nearly dow- as far down the rabbit hole as these people, but he's still part of the same movement. Um, and they, they're very, uh, they love communist revolutions 'cause the idea is they're gonna, there's gonna be an amazing revolution, will establish the perfect order, and therefore, history's over, we can carry on living as however we, we choose. Um, the, essentially, there's gonna ha- uh, uh, like, it l- and it looks like all of our institutions are falling to this. It looks like every company, 'cause there's, there's no solid defense against it because essentially, you would have to make a defense outside of the logic of the thing and nobody seems to be prepared to do this. Like, every, every conservative should be standing saying, "Look, I'm not making a commentary on Black Lives Matter as, in as much as I am objecting to the moral framework that Black Lives Matter is built on." You know? "I don't believe in racial collectivization. I don't believe that we should tear down some because of the others. And I don't believe that we can ignore bad actions for good intent." You know, the actions matter. The- we're, like, I say we, but generally, like, I guess what we'll just call the right wing is very procedural, you know, how you get to where you are, the, the means of what justify the ends, and they really are on the other side, the ends justify the means. This is why they didn't care (laughs) if they're burning down cities. Like, thousands of buil- businesses have been burned and looted in America in the past month. Thousands. It's crazy. In 40 cities. There's a part of a city that's been taken over by communists. And I'm just like... (laughs) like, that's just... No, not one thing burned or looted is justified, you know, but to the people who are supporting it, and this is everywhere. This is newspapers, this is left-wing politicians, this is corporations. To the people supporting it, they don't care, you know. They don't care about the damage that's been done. And that's, that's the, the, the, the schism at the heart of the whole thing. And an- while this order is in place, it's going to act exactly as you would think. It's going to drive towards moral perfection, like this abstract moral perfection. You, you can already see it now. Who was it? Someone, someone who did blackface, uh, in a comedy skit like 10 years ago, I, I can't remember which one it was, one of the like late-night comedians or something.

    3. CW

      Jimmy Fallon or someone like that.

    4. CA

      Yeah, someone like that. It wasn't him, but it was someone like that. They, they were saying they were taking like a year off or something. (laughs) It's like, "Oh, really? Why is that?" You know? Yeah.

    5. CW

      Just happens to be at the time when the blackface video resurfaces.

    6. CA

      Exactly. Exactly.

    7. CW

      So, I mean, I, I, I don't really-

    8. CA

      But the, the, the thing, the thing is this order's gonna continue and it's gonna continue establishing itself until essentially it becomes untenable. But this, this group of people on the other side who think, "Well, actually, we think that a plurality of views and behavior matters," um, until they conduct their own kind of counterrevolution and either not just take back the industries or create new ones, um, then it's gonna be the social justice regime from here on out. And you can see it on the, on Twitter at the moment, the things going around of the Sky, Sky Cinema, where they're like, (laughs) "This, this, uh..." Like, I can't remember exactly how it is, but essentially, "This film was made in a different era and may contain scenes that are disturbing to the people." And it's based- you know, it's for everything. Even like the 2019 Aladdin reboot is now problematic. That's how quickly-

    9. CW

      Because it's making pejorative statements about people from Arabia.

    10. CA

      I don't even think it is. Like, I watched it. It, I did- I didn't see anything that I thought was-

    11. CW

      The curly-toed shoes with the little bells on the end or anything like that?

    12. CA

      That's not...... is that bad? Like is that- (laughs) Is it demeaning?

    13. CW

      Well, I don't know. This is the thing, right? Because... But I don't know.

    14. CA

      Like... Yeah, no, I don't. You don't. Yeah.

    15. CW

      I d- I don't know. So Variety... I asked you this. Variety's 10 problematic films that need disclaimers and discussions before and after watching.

    16. CA

      And they're now on Skype, uh, Sky. They're now there.

    17. CW

      I'm not sure.

    18. CA

      Sorry, hang on. No, no, they are.

    19. CW

      In this list, Dirty Harry, Forrest Gump, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, Me Before You, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which only came out last year.

    20. CA

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Uh, and then Children's Hour, The Searchers. So they're from the '60s. Forrest Gump 1994, Dirty Harry 1971.

    22. CA

      Yeah.

    23. CW

      Indiana Jones 1984. I think that one was a, was problematic because it showed Hindu people as being the ones that can take your heart out.

    24. CA

      Yeah. Uh, so yeah. I mean, th- this, it, it's the circular firing squad that Obama was talking about. Now culture is going to be cleansed. And when people do this, there's a way... It, it's also competitive, right? There's a way, there is a way of attaining status by doing this. By taking the scalp, you get to brag and say, "Well, look, I just aided the revolution." You know, we are slightly closer to the social justice future because Indiana Jones has been censored or whatever.

    25. CW

      Because head on a spike.

    26. CA

      Exactly, head on a spike. And it... And this taking things down becomes a competitive sport, you know. Everyone's looking at everyone else getting kudos and thinking, "Well, I need to do something. Oh, I've found something." You know? And so the- these campaigns will intensify, um, until someone just says, "Well, look, I just don't agree that this is a problem."

  12. 38:35 – 46:22

    No consistent rules in a revolution: power, propaganda, and double standards

    1. CW

      Realistically, that's-

    2. CA

      If I'm the one controlling it...

    3. CW

      That's not gonna happen. Like-

    4. CA

      No, it's not. Everyone's terrified.

    5. CW

      Yeah. And rightly so. Like, the, the silence is deafening stuff. So CrossFit. I don't know whether you've seen that the CrossFit CEO put his foot in it in a really, really huge way. They hadn't-

    6. CA

      No, I didn't.

    7. CW

      They hadn't decided to put out a message when every other company was during that period, that like five-day period. They didn't do that.

    8. CA

      The, the black message with white writing. Yeah.

    9. CW

      Um, they, they didn't have one of those. And then Gregg Glassman, the CEO, did a thing, tweeted. Um, there was a little bit of nuance to it when you dug in deeper, but it was ju- it was just a stupid tweet. Like... And when you think of the current environment, it was as, as basically as stupid as you can get. And now he's resigned, and that is, that has tumbled out... There's no way that that wasn't gonna happen. There's no way that that wasn't gonna happen. And I, you know, from my side, I think, yeah, he fucked up. Like, see you later on, Gregg. Like, you're off mate.

    10. CA

      Yeah.

    11. CW

      But there has to be a line somewhere with what we do with culture and with what we allow in from history. People that fuck up right now, I'm like, "Look mate, you're an adult." You know? But you can't judge the situations of history by the standards of today. However...

    12. CA

      Well, yeah. You, you wouldn't because it'd be irrational to do so. It's like, it'd be like-

    13. CW

      But something that was made... The Searchers, made in 1956.

    14. CA

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      Should that be condemned for it? Okay, no, that shouldn't. That should be taken down. Okay, let's roll the clock forward. At what point does doing a thing which today is reprehensible but back then was acceptable become due recompense in the now? Because no one's going to the people that made The Searchers in 1956 and saying, "We need your head on a spike. Let's get rid of your blue tick on Twitter. Let's do this."

    16. CA

      They probably all did.

    17. CW

      Yeah, but... Okay, so at some point-

    18. CA

      Yeah.

    19. CW

      ... whether it was the Children's Hour in 1961 or Indiana Jones.

    20. CA

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      Who was the guy in Indiana Jones?

    22. CA

      Harrison Ford.

    23. CW

      Harrison Ford. Har- Harrison Ford's head's not on a spike.

    24. CA

      Uh, Harrison Ford isn't really responsible. Like, you'd think they'd be going after George Lucas for writing it, wouldn't you?

    25. CW

      Yeah. But my point is like-

    26. CA

      Yeah.

    27. CW

      ... there, there's, there's-

    28. CA

      But they will. They will.

    29. CW

      There's a line somewhere, and I just want, I want to try and work out where that is. Because once we have something definite, something, a, a guideline that you can work with, you can be like, "Okay, I can respect the boundary that has been set. I can ensure that there is a rule whereby we do not make people in this, in, in this world feel uncomfortable." But for as long as there isn't a rule, you can pick and choose. That's good, that's bad, that's good, that's bad. Joe Biden says in one sentence that it's, uh, racist for Trump to not let Chinese people in, and then two months later says that the lockdown started too late.

    30. CA

      Yeah. I think, um-

  13. 46:22 – 51:44

    2020’s information crisis: Twitter-driven journalism and viral misinformation

    1. CW

      Given the fact that we have this crazy COVID situation that's just happened-

    2. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CW

      ... everyone's got heightened emotions, heightened intensity-

    4. CA

      Yes.

    5. CW

      ... their time on site has been increased, they haven't got to see the people that they love, they're scared about catching a pathogen, which is like evolutionary wired into us to be something to be afraid of-

    6. CA

      Sure.

    7. CW

      ... so you've got this, uh, ambient anxiety, right? This low-level ambient anxiety that just sits in the background.

    8. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CW

      Then, on top of that, you have this constant news cycle, which this year has just been...

    10. CA

      (laughs)

    11. CW

      Trump got impeached this year-

    12. CA

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      ... this year, which feels like-

    14. CA

      And no one cares (laughs) .

    15. CW

      ... which feels like 80 years ago.

    16. CA

      It does, doesn't it?

    17. CW

      Y-

    18. CA

      And no one cares (laughs) .

    19. CW

      So, you've got, you've got that's happened, you've got the-

    20. CA

      Yeah.

    21. CW

      ... the news which is being, uh, either misrepresented, uh, distorted, either purposefully or just due to the fact that they've got to try and keep up, which means that there's going to be, uh, willful and just accidental negligence going on. Uh, then all of the George Floyd situation, you've got the subsuic- uh, subsequent riots, you've got... And then you've got the upcoming presidential election.

    22. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CW

      Like, this is the time where we should be trying to be as precise as possible with the things that we say, as honest and as truthful as possible, because any slight deviation from that will be magnified. And then when-

    24. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    25. CW

      ... you add layer upon layer upon layer, like people that getting all of their truth from Twitter, like just from-

    26. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    27. CW

      ... some guy on Twitter-

    28. CA

      Yep.

    29. CW

      ... and the fact that you can now do that and be a, a story which people start to repeat and becomes part of the canon, like, it doesn't surprise me that this situation, that when you fully reflect on 2020-

    30. CA

      Mm-hmm.

  14. 51:44 – 1:06:21

    ‘Twitter is fight mode’: coping by seeking plural sources and resisting self-radicalization

    1. CA

      Yeah. Uh, so social media has been a curse that we weren't ready for. Um, and I, I mean, it, it's probable that something similar to the effect that we're seeing now would have happened given enough time. I think it's probably inevitable, uh, given the philosophies and, you know, them percolating through the culture. It probably would have done. But I think social media is just esce- essentially an accelerating factor that's just got everything to go so much faster. And like, there, there was a study that showed that Twitter activates the same parts of the brain as being in a fight. So when you get on Twitter you're in fight mode.

    2. CW

      Oh, I've heard of this.

    3. CA

      Y- Oh no, totally. You might not be moving, but your heart's pumping, your adrenaline's going, your, and your brain is, is, you know, is you're like, "Arrr," arguing with someone on Twitter. You may as well be going to have a fight with that person. So it's like, okay, you're essentially stepping into the world's largest fight club when you log into Twitter.

    4. CW

      (laughs) Fucking hell.

    5. CA

      (laughs) And get ready to get punched because everyone gets punched on Twitter, you know what I mean? And so it, like (laughs) it's just, it's not good. And the thing-

    6. CW

      So what do we ... What do we do, man?

    7. CA

      Well-

    8. CW

      Like ...

    9. CA

      Well, the, the problem is that the, the interpretation of the facts, uh, diverging is fine. Everyone expects a divergent view of the interpretation of the facts. But because people are sat in their online echo chambers and there can't really be any other way of doing this apart from having it so that you don't get to choose what you follow. Uh, because when people get to choose what they follow, they follow the things that they like and that means they only get that perspective, one, you know, one view. And so it, it was that there was a, a plurality of opinions on the same facts, but now there is not. There's, there's divergent facts for each side. And I really wish when Kellyanne Conway said, "Oh, there are alternative facts," and it was like, "Ha ha, there's no such thing as alternative facts." Like, yeah there are. There are facts you're not listening to, you're not paying attention to. Like, you know, despite being 13%, you know, that's a fact that you didn't wanna mention. It's an alternative fact. It's still real and yet you leave it out of the narrative. And so it's, you know, it's, it's ... It's now (laughs) at the point where we don't even agree the same thing's happened. You know, the-

    10. CW

      Yeah.

    11. CA

      ... the, the, the London bubble is like, "Oh, well there were Nazi salutes." People with video cameras didn't capture any Nazi salutes. These people do not profess to be Nazis and they wished to defend Winston Churchill. What do we do? Well, in the meantime, I don't know, I don't have all the answers obviously, but one, one thing that I do is I make sure that even if I hate it, I watch information from sources I don't agree with. Um, and there are a bunch of sources that I really don't agree with and I've found even more insufferable, but I've continued to force myself to watch these things, to get, you know, for ... N- watch certain people's coverage of certain events.

    12. CW

      To get the other facts.

    13. CA

      To get the other facts that they left out.

    14. CW

      What are these, what would you say? So let's say that I am, which I am, a person who wants to try and at least get a broad cross-section of what's going on. What, what would you advise that I read and listen to?

    15. CA

      Well, I mean, the, the most obvious place to start is like, look, if you're gonna watch the mainstream news, um, watch Fox News and MSNBC. And you'll hear two sides of the same narrative that will include facts that the other one didn't include. Uh, so you will learn things from both sides. Um, and that's essentially what you've got to do on any subject, any g- any given event. Uh, so I, I find myself, you know, watching like David Pakman or Novara Media.... and at the same time watching Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson. And I, I mean, like I, I don't really like Fox News, I don't really like any of the personalities other than Tucker Carlson, because I think he's actually on the money a lot these days. Um, but y- basically you've got to find yourself a sort of list of people on either side of any political debate who you find tolerable, that you can watch, even if you disagree with them. You've just got to figure it out, you know, and you've just got to accept that they see the world differently to you, but you still do need to have both of those things. This is something that, um, Hayek, uh, pointed out in The Road to Serfdom, that the, the dangers of totalitarianism, the reason that totalitarian societies become like they are is not because of propaganda. In, in every society there's propaganda, it's just in a liberal society, there's a plurality of propaganda pulling you in all different directions-

    16. CW

      Ah.

    17. CA

      ... so you're introduced to all different kinds of things. So you don't ever get s- "Okay, I only heard one thing, so I believe that's reality and that's it." You know, because you see maybe something else.

    18. CW

      It makes it so messy that it's almost impossible to work out what's going on. And what, what does-

    19. CA

      Well, n- n- n- n- n- n- not, not that it makes it impossible to work out what's going on, it means it's m- much more difficult to find yourself in a political cult where you've only heard one side of the story and you've never heard the other side.

    20. CW

      Okay.

    21. CA

      Uh, so y- you can still, you know, you can find out what's going on from all this plurality of sources, it's just you won't be radicalized to one particular worldview or the other. Um, and it's, it, it's not th- it's not wrong for people to have their own political opinions they put out, obviously everyone's free to do so. Um, the, the danger with totalitarian societies is it creates radicals and crazies who are zealots for the system, because they only ever hear one thing and so the other people must be evil. And our social media feeds are doing that for us, so it's really important that we remember that we're not 100% right and we are actually kind of self-radicalizing, and we've got to try and decondition ourselves.

    22. CW

      We need to take everything that we read with an increasing pinch of salt-

    23. CA

      Yes.

    24. CW

      But the problem is now, as you've identified, the old bastions of truth that we would be able to rely on a long time ago, they're no longer there.

    25. CA

      Yes.

    26. CW

      Because they also have an agenda, and they also have pressures, and they also get stuff wrong and, like, so-

    27. CA

      Yeah.

    28. CW

      Again, layer all of this on top of the worst global pandemic in 100 years and everyone being locked in the house and heightened tensions and emotions and stuff like that.

    29. CA

      30 people died in the Black Lives Matter protests in America. 30 people died. Like there were videos of guy, you know, this one guy got beaten unconscious and then his teeth kicked in just as he's laying on the floor, someone punts him straight in the face. And I watched that and I was like, "Fuck." You know, and you know, 30 police officers in London were injured at the Black Lives Matter protest, and then another 20 when the football lads went down. You know, again, I'm not gonna say that it's only one side that's done it or anything like that, you know, but, but if I were a partisan on either side, I absolutely would. And the BBC and Sky News absolutely did make it sound as if the Black Lives Matter, the mostly peaceful protest that injured 30 cops, you know, like that's not a peaceful protest.

    30. CW

      Didn't you see the video of the horse running down the street?

  15. 1:06:21 – 1:12:31

    How to speak and act now: caution, support networks, and practical reform paths

    1. CW

      Got it. Um, last thing, mate. How would you advise someone communicate to now moving forward in a productive manner? Do you have a way that you try and do that?

    2. CA

      Um, don't be a hero because these people are on a- on edge, uh, there's blood in the water and they, they will come for you, you know. They'll do as much damage to your life as they can and they'll feel justified in doing it. Um, they, they will ruin you if, if they can. Uh, so don't be a hero. Um, but if it's something that's really bothering you and you, you feel tremendously motivated to do something, there are lots of, um, people who are trying to push back in lots of different ways and you can do your part by like, you know, buying their book or buying, you know, the T-shirt or whatever it is that they're doing to finance themselves because-... competition to the moral worldview that's being presented in Black Lives Matter and Antifa, uh, is being attacked. You know, th-- it's just being attacked for being in opposition to this, at this point. So you, th- these people definitely need support. But it is also worth, um, trying to go past the idea of police reform. Because, uh, essentially you can be like, "Well, there are many ways to skin a cat," right?" Like, I might, I might want police reform too, but I don't think defunding the police is the way to get police reform. So I'm gonna ... You know, I have a different idea for that which might be ... And, I mean, there are lots of ideas. Like, uh, in America something like 70% of the police don't police their own districts that they live in, so they're from out of town. They're coming ... That's, you know, that's ... You can see why that would be a concern, right? So you might want police reform so it's like, you know, 70% do police their own districts or something like that, you know. So there, there are other ways to get, um, to s- to resolve issues. And there are issues to be resolved. Um, but I guess, you know, you just have to have these very difficult conversations if you want. But you'll probably get disavowed very quickly. (laughs) 'Cause there's-

    3. CW

      It's hard, man. Like, I love, I-

    4. CA

      Yeah.

    5. CW

      ... I absolutely adore having, having nuanced conversations.

    6. CA

      Yeah.

    7. CW

      This is what I would spend my entire time doing, trying to work out exactly where the truth lies, this, isn't this interesting. But again, like, the things that we need to talk about the most are precisely the things that we can't talk about.

    8. CA

      (laughs) Yeah.

    9. CW

      And it makes, that's what scares me. Because I'm like, "I don't know whether I'm going to say something which yesterday was reasonable, and yet today is a landmine." And as you can see with, "We should pull this show down off TV, we should do this," you're talking about some shows, like, uh, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, that are a year old.

    10. CA

      Yep.

    11. CW

      You're talking about something where the rules have changed, because ... Uh, maybe people were up in arms, I don't know, but I didn't see people being up in arms when that film came out. It got a bunch of big accolades, got the huge director behind it, Quentin Tarantino and blah, blah. And I'm like, "I have conversations for a living. This is what I do for hours and hours per week, as do you."

    12. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    13. CW

      Uh, perhaps you're, uh, you've slightly bigger pair of brass balls than I do. But my point is that, as someone who is, like, a professional conversationalist-

    14. CA

      Mm.

    15. CW

      ... I am real scared about-

    16. CA

      Yeah.

    17. CW

      ... about some of the conversations that I want to have. I want to have these conversations because I think that they're worthy, because I think they're interesting, because we are absolutely living through history. Like, oh my God.

    18. CA

      Mm-hmm.

    19. CW

      (laughs) Like, if 2020 isn't some history for you there, like, I don't know (laughs) what is.

    20. CA

      Yeah, I, I think it's probably gonna have, uh, a lot more written on it than the early 2000s, but you know.

    21. CW

      (laughs) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    22. CA

      It's, um ... But yeah, no, you, you are, you are right. I mean, this is why I've been in such consistent opposition to this worldview for such a long time. Because it is eminently, uh, demonstrable, from the small spaces in which it had taken over, that it very rapidly becomes tyrannical and imposes a kind of regime of terror on people. And lo and behold, now that it's taken over the mainstream culture, which I said that it would, I said this was coming. Now it's taken it over. Now everyone feels afraid. Like, you can see people, like, uh, Robin DiAngelo was on Jimmy Fallon the other day and, uh, the top reply to the tweet that had the video in it is, "You look like a hostage." And it's like, yes, he does, because if he says something wrong, he's getting canceled and he's never coming back. 'Cause there's no amount of forgiv-- there's no method of forgiveness or penance with this religion. Especially when status can be assumed by simply attacking someone who's morally inferior. You know, wh- while, while you can raise yourself up by doing nothing else than tearing other people down, you're never gonna be safe. You're never going to be safe. It's why I've been warning about this.

    23. CW

      Um, look, Kyle, it's been, uh, a year since you were on. I have to give you as well, as a parting note, I have to give you a very big thank you for coming on last year. It was a huge help to the channel.

    24. CA

      (laughs)

    25. CW

      It's been a big part of the growth, um, and, uh, I couldn't appreciate you more for, for coming back on. Uh, Teespring.

    26. CA

      No, my pleasure.

    27. CW

      Is that the, is that the only place that we can get you now?

    28. CA

      Uh, no, no, no. Spreadshirt now. (laughs)

    29. CW

      (laughs) You are kidding me.

    30. CA

      Yeah. (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:12:31

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