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SONNY WEBSTER | Bad Days, Good Days & Staying Resilient | Modern Wisdom Podcast 114

Sonny Webster is a weightlifter and online coach. Some days you're feeling it, some days not so much. All of us have good and bad periods to contend with but it's how we respond which ultimately determines the outcome. Sonny is one of the most resilient humans I know and today we get a fantastic insight into how he overcomes setbacks in life, lifting and everything else. Extra Stuff: Follow Sonny on Instagram -https://instagram.com/sonnywebstergb/ Check out Sonny's Academy - http://sonnywebsteracademy.com Check out everything I recommend from books to products and help support the podcast at no extra cost to you by shopping through this link - https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/modernwisdom - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Sonny WebsterguestChris Williamsonhost
Oct 24, 201955mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:00

    Life after a 7-year weightlifting ban: identity loss and moving forward

    1. SW

      So, obviously my initial ban was, was four years. Um, I then received a further three-year ban for coaching athletes that compete. So that totaled my ban to seven years. Weightlifting's been the biggest part of my life ever since I was 11 years old and to have that taken away from you is very difficult. Uh, I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, probably losing a loved one or something very similar because it made up so much of my life and still does. As heartbreaking as that was, and it was a very low point in my life after that, I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever gonna be able to move on with my life. I learnt that if you really got a burning desire to achieve, and I never did what I do now to prove anything to anyone else, I've got my own goals and my own drive. And you never wanna lose sight of the fact that it is your own journey, and they are your obstacles.

  2. 1:00 – 3:50

    Catching up & the weightlifter drinking culture

    1. CW

      Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I managed to get him all the way from the other side of the planet. It's Sonny Webster. How are you, mate?

    2. SW

      Hey, Chris. How you doing, brother?

    3. CW

      Yeah, good to see you, man. How's, how's life in the future? 'Cause you're in the future right now.

    4. SW

      I'm not being funny, mate. This is a long overdue chat. I can't, when was the last time I was on the podcast?

    5. CW

      Uh, over a year ago now. So it was that same weekend that we did... Was it the same weekend we did Elroe?

    6. SW

      (laughs) Yeah.

    7. CW

      (laughs)

    8. SW

      Lost, yeah.

    9. CW

      Which was also-

    10. SW

      Lost years of my life that weekend.

    11. CW

      ... coincidentally the s- the, the last time that I drank in the UK. So it's been like 18-

    12. SW

      Really? Wow.

    13. CW

      Yeah, man. That was, that was the last time that I drank in the UK, so it'll be like, what, 14 months or something now since then. I'm not saying that going out with you, like, cursed drinking-

    14. SW

      (laughs)

    15. CW

      ... (laughs) it was a-

    16. SW

      I think I've done that to a few people though, so-

    17. CW

      I think you have as well.

    18. SW

      ... you wouldn't be the first.

    19. CW

      You are, like before we even start talking about anything, can we discuss about your ability to drink? Because like I've never met anyone who is able to go out, like, on the, on the lash the way you are and then get up the next morning and just go and do, teach a seminar in Scotland or something. You got up at like 10:00 AM or 11:00 AM. I didn't r- I didn't surface until like the middle of the afternoon.

    20. SW

      (laughs)

    21. CW

      By the time that I'd got out of bed, you'd done a seminar in Glasgow or something.

    22. SW

      Do you know what? I think it's a thing with weightlifters is, is part of like the growing up is you have to be able to drink. You will never become a great weightlifter if you can't drink. I remember right back from a young age, I must have been 14 years old going on weightlifting training camps and the more senior athletes would say to you right on a Friday night after training, "You're coming to the pub with us and you're having a drink." And you don't really have a choice. You do as you're told-

    23. CW

      (laughs)

    24. SW

      ... 'cause they're much bigger and much stronger than you, and you want to fit in. And it becomes part of, I guess, the nature of, you know, being a weightlifter, especially the way that we go about, you know, competition.

    25. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    26. SW

      You would train really hard for like six weeks, seven weeks, maybe up to six months on end for a competition and you won't drink at all. So then you blow out, so your ability at binge drinking becomes extremely good (laughs) .

    27. CW

      Yeah, you, it's definitely a, uh, something that you're capable of. I suppose as well, like, weightlifters are, there's a lot of muscle mass in there that can probably metabolize their alcohol pretty quick and they're f- they're competitive. You're literally bred to be competitive. So yeah.

    28. SW

      (laughs)

    29. CW

      Compet- (laughs) competitive drinking, I can imagine is pretty bad. But what else is going on, man? 'Cause like, so the last time that the listeners will have seen you, you were in the UK. You were, um, yeah, I don't think you'd even started, uh, like the Sonny Webster Academy by then. So like catch us up over the last year. What's happened?

  3. 3:50 – 6:27

    Leaving the UK: Australia tour, new relationship, and rapid relocation

    1. SW

      Yeah. Well, I guess before I saw you ended last year, I was just sort of planning, uh, my tour to Australia. I mean, I was definitely going through a period at the time after we last chatted of not feeling completely settled in the UK. Um, it took me a long time to really realize that because I was continually going on these trips to Doha, going on these trips to Europe to do seminars and as much as I was enjoying traveling, every time I came back, the next seminar seemed to act almost as an escape away from, um, being in the UK. And it wasn't until I'd actually left the UK that I began to realize that, um, I guess, I don't know if it was more for me wanting to, you know, spread my wings and experience a new, new country as a kind of a sign there for me, but obviously I went away then on the big Australia tour and, uh, it was life-changing, you know. I, I fell in love with the place, fell in love with a beautiful lady and, um, it was only fitting then that I moved away there then in January. So towards the end of my tour when I met, um, my new girlfriend, Lyndal, we, uh, decided to go to, uh, Bali for Christmas together and we had the most amazing time, Christmas and New Year, and then it was like, she lived in Sydney, I live in England. If we're gonna have a go at making this work, one of us has to budge and she sure as hell wasn't-

    2. CW

      (laughs)

    3. SW

      ... coming to rainy England. So it was quite an easy decision which, uh, which end of the world we was gonna head up in. But I mean, I'd obviously just bought my place in Bristol, uh, which I've still got, but it's amazing when you really want to be somewhere else that bad, how quickly you can make the change. And I think like so many people are, are scared and fearful of change or something new, but I'm kid you not, I lived in Bristol for seven years and I managed to pack up my whole life in seven days and, uh, move to the other side of the world.

    4. CW

      (laughs) I mean, you are quite well, uh, well experienced at packing things up. I've seen you again in Bristol, I've seen you pack, pack up a- after a night out with me to go and do like... I can't remember where you were going. Maybe Marbella in-

    5. SW

      There's room here.

    6. CW

      ... Ibiza or something like that. Yeah, you, you moved pretty quick. It was all that you had in your suitcase was like-... two pairs of lifters, a pair of off-white sliders, and, um, some shorts-

    7. SW

      (laughs)

    8. CW

      ... and that was it. And you're like, "I'll just get the rest-"

    9. SW

      I bought in.

  4. 6:27 – 8:45

    Visas, moving countries, and making change happen

    1. CW

      "... I'll get the rest when I'm there." Um, but no, yeah, y- you're right. O- one thing that people might not know is you've actually got a Aussie passport, right? Or you've got Aussie citizenship or something?

    2. SW

      I've got one better, I've got a New Zealand one.

    3. CW

      New Zealand passport, is that it?

    4. SW

      (laughs) Yeah, a New Zealand one, which kind of works the same here. It's kind of like having a, you know, an Irish passport, I guess, um, so I can stay here in Australia on that visa. But do you know what? As mental, because I'm still traveling so much, I could come and go on my travel visa and no one would even know.

    5. CW

      Really?

    6. SW

      Yeah (laughs) .

    7. CW

      So all of the- all of the-

    8. SW

      I'm still moving every month.

    9. CW

      All the excuses that people have where they might think, "Oh, I, I don't really understand how the, the visas work," or, "I don't have citizenship in the same way that Sonny does," or whatever. I- i- if there's a will, there's sort of a way a lot of the time.

    10. SW

      Yeah, I know. I've got s- Do you know what? I know so many people living here in Sydney from back in, back in the UK that have either come here and been sponsored getting jobs or, um, have done the farming. It's not easy, but like anything, if you really want to make it happen, (laughs) you have to, uh, you put the work in.

    11. CW

      What's James and Derren doing? Are they doing the farming? I can imagine, I can see those two on a farm.

    12. SW

      No.

    13. CW

      (laughs)

    14. SW

      So Derren, Derren actually had a de facto from a previous relationship that he was here. He was with someone for seven years from Australia, so he was here a long time ago, uh-

    15. CW

      Oh, right, yeah, yeah.

    16. SW

      ... with the next partner of his, and then James obviously his business is based here, so he has a business visa, so he can stay here on, on those, those terms.

    17. CW

      Fucking red tape-

    18. SW

      So I get to see (overlapping dialogue)

    19. CW

      ... avoiding bastards. They're just-

    20. SW

      Yeah (laughs) .

    21. CW

      ... sneaking around, leaving the UK, leaving the rain behind and going out somewhere cool.

    22. SW

      Those boys, yeah, they run on a different time clock to me. Those boys are in bed at, like, 9:00 and they're in the café at 6:00, which, you know, I'm, like, more of a up at 7:00 and work till, like, midnight. But it does-

    23. CW

      Yeah.

    24. SW

      As soon as you wake up in the morning then, you feel like you're on the back foot and you've got FOMO already and it's only, like, 7:00 'cause they're already done, like, (laughs) their work and email-

    25. CW

      Y-

    26. SW

      Especially as we work in the same field.

    27. CW

      Yeah, James is 20 Instagram stories deep and he's already done his, his email for the week-

    28. SW

      (laughs)

    29. CW

      ... and all that bullshit, and then there's you still trying to dra- drag your coffee out.

    30. SW

      Is it? Yeah, like that. (laughs)

  5. 8:45 – 11:34

    Settling into Sydney + launching Sonny Webster Academy to scale impact

    1. CW

      So what's been going on recently other than, obviously you've got yourself out to Oz, you've managed to find a girlfriend. You've now moved in with Lyndall as well, right?

    2. SW

      Yeah, moved in with Lyndall. It's her birthday this weekend, so-

    3. CW

      Happy birthday, Lyndall.

    4. SW

      Um, I finally... Yeah, she's, uh, she's, she's watching her program in the ni- in the, in the bedroom. But yeah, for me, I think initially it took me a while to get settled, find my routine here. Um, obviously I'd just launched the Sonny Webster Academy, um, which has been amazing. It's been great to be able to help more people. That was the key thing with the academy, was that whenever I'm doing these seminars, I tr- have to travel halfway around the world and I'll be able to impact 30 people's lives on that given day. And yes, I know they'll come away with a PBL and they'll have a great experience, but I wanted to be able to offer that to a wider audience. And something that meant that I didn't have to travel so much because it was taking so much away from, as much as I love traveling, away from my time and my endeavors and enjoyment in my own training, you know? 'Cause it's massively affected every time you travel away, every time you spend time in the air you f- fall out your sync and your routine, and before you know it I'm not improving. And I still love my lifting, so-

    5. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SW

      ... um, I had to, with the academy, find a way of accessing more people without having to move so much. And, um, I've learned so much in a year. I can't believe that, you know, it was only a year ago pretty much to this day that I launched the Sonny Webster Academy properly. And already we've had thousands of customers and we've got, you know, a lot of customers online now that are on a subscription that I'm able to work with, which has been, you know, it's been great. And I've been learning so much more about what people want and how to work with people over the internet. And, and it kind of is, is the future now really.

    7. CW

      Mm-hmm. It's interesting that it's something both, like, ki- kind of selfish for your own gains but selfless as well-

    8. SW

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CW

      ... because it allows you to scale. You are right, like, we were, uh, uh, we were talking about this with regards to my business, which is Club Promo, right? Like, if I have to be the person that's stood on the door, there's only ever one of me, I can't scale the business-

    10. SW

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CW

      ... beyond maybe at best, like, one night per week, like, every night of the week, and it's like fucking hell-

    12. SW

      Yeah.

    13. CW

      ... that's so much graft. But you're totally right. We've got our first online course, which is in beta testing at the moment, which is going super well. And I've been able to distill down, the same way you have, a lot of things that I've spoken to people about face-to-face and then you've condensed it-

    14. SW

      Yeah.

    15. CW

      ... down into a format that is convenient for people and they can deal with it that way and, you know, uh, uh, like, like you say, it's nice that you've got this opportunity to reach, to reach a wider audience whilst not sacrificing the results that people are getting on the backend. Um, so-

  6. 11:34 – 13:33

    The hidden difficulty of online coaching: service, time zones, personalization

    1. SW

      Yeah. And, and, and just, and yourself and your own, your own health. But it's, it's so much harder than people think it is. Like, I can't stress that enough. Like, you think being an online coach is easy, it's no problem, you get a membership site and off you go. It's, it's really not that easy. (laughs)

    2. CW

      What's the challenges? What are the challenges that you've found particularly?

    3. SW

      Wow. I think, um, maintaining a high level of service for the people that you work with, um, keeping up to date with people in different time zones, you know, that's been a massive thing for me. Like, it's easy if everyone wakes up at 7:00 and everyone goes to bed at, at 10:00. And you know if you schedule your live at 9:00 to interact with everyone as a whole, everyone's gonna be up.Right now, we've got people from all different parts of the world on the academy. It's very diff- difficult to sync with them.

    4. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SW

      Also, different standards of people and people require different levels of coaching and when you offer, um, an online platform, you kind of speak one language, okay, to your people, uh, initially anyway because you have the program but then it's realized like, "Well, you don't like getting sworn to when, uh, when I'm teaching you how to lift." But some people like that encouragement.

    6. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SW

      And it's kind of tailoring your service to the masses of people and you need to have different levels and it's taking me ages and months and months and months of tailoring and refinering the programs and products that we've got online to appeal to everyone. And you're never gonna keep everyone happy, but that's definitely one of the biggest challenges I've found, and then retaining.

    8. CW

      Yeah. I suppose that the issue there is you need to have a ... You need to have a program which is sufficiently similar that it doesn't require you to write every person's program absolutely individually every single day, plus do a 20-minute phone call with them because you couldn't reach enough people. But then you also need to-

  7. 13:33 – 15:04

    Athlete-to-coach shift—and the loss of competition

    1. SW

      Yeah.

    2. CW

      ... balance that with a level of personalization which ensures that the, the language that you're using, the sort of communication. Like you've said there, something I totally didn't even think about, time zones and ensuring that people have got access at the right times and stuff like that. So one thing that you've touched on there is your own lifting, your own training at the moment. Obviously, the last time that we spoke, I think you would have probably still classed yourself primarily as an athlete. What, what do you see-

    3. SW

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... yourself as now? Do you see yourself as athlete coach or as a coach? Has there been a transition there?

    5. SW

      Yeah. I definitely still love, you know, the competitive side of training myself, um, so I mean, I'm still in the gym five, six days a week focusing on my own training, but it's very different now. I aim for doing maybe one or two exercises a day and doing it really well and doing my mixture of CrossFit and weightlifting. And then, yeah, I'd say I'm definitely ... I've been coaching now for seven years, so I've been in that coach athlete role for a while now, but I'm definitely putting more of the emphasis, I'd say 60/40 between coaching at the moment than I am on, on my athlete side of things.

    6. CW

      How have you found relinquishing that thread attached to the balloon? 'Cause obviously no matter how much you love coaching, there is a particular type of itch that needs to be scratched by competition and you're, right now, you're unable to do that.

  8. 15:04 – 19:43

    The ban escalates: sanctions, seminar warnings, and perceived double standards

    1. SW

      Yeah, well, I mean, that was, you know, a heartbreaking stage in, in my life and as you would have listened to, to James's podcast, it was the first time that I'd actually last year felt in the right place to, um, discuss my doping ban and, you know, how it's affected me moving forward. You know, weightlifting's been the biggest part of my life ever since I was 11 years old and to have that taken away from you, um, is very difficult. I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, it's probably losing, losing a loved one or something very similar because it made up so much of my life and still does. And yes, it is like an itch now for me when, you know, I still have that burning desire to, um, wanna compete and to be competitive and it's something, you know, that I can't do now.

    2. CW

      Yeah. Uh, you know, having been around you for quite a while and having been mates with you for quite a while, it's one thing that I do think is impressive is your resilience over the last sort of 18 months. There's been a number of setbacks, like the, the first, your first ban and then, like, a subsequent kind of additional, uh, like kick in the balls after that as well. Um, and-

    3. SW

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... and that appears to be continuing, not just with competition but with, like, coaching as well?

    5. SW

      Yeah. I mean, so obviously my initial ban was, was four years. Um, I then received a further, um, three-year ban for, um, coaching athletes that compete was what they gave me the second ban for. Um, so that totaled my ban to seven years. Um, and even so now, I mean, right back to when I first came to Australia, um, Australian Weightlifting Federation, New Zealand Weightlifting Federation were putting in the news and stuff like that to say, "If anyone attends Sonny's weightlifting seminars who's a competitive athlete, then, um, you're impeding, uh, a doping violation and therefore you could get banned as well." And it's been the first time that they've ever tried to impact these sort of levels of rules on anyone. And, you know, for myself serving currently a seven-year ban, one of the longest bans i- in weightlifting, especially for an out-of-hours, out-of-competition test in which, you know, I pursued my case and gave it a bloody good go at proving that it had come from contamination and wasn't, um, ingested knowingly, um, and I did everything I possibly could to attempt to prove that and still to come away with that level of severity of ban was, you know, it was heartbreaking. But, you know, it's like I said back on James's podcast, um, as heartbreaking as that was and it was a very low point in my life after that, I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever gonna be able to move on with my life and go, "Yeah, this is the most terrible thing that could ever happen to you." And at this point, I'd only had the four years. But I need to continue on with my life. I need to, um, continue to spread my passion and love for the sport, um, and, you know...Who's to say that I would never have come back and competed again? But after having spoken out about that last time was when I received the s- the second three years. So, uh-

    6. CW

      Do you think, um, do y-

    7. SW

      ... I'm not gonna th-

    8. CW

      Do you think that you would have got that, or, or do you think that s- speaking out and perhaps publicizing what happened on James' podcast led to that additional three years, at least hastening its arrival or li- improving the likelihood of it happening?

    9. SW

      100%. You know, there was nothing that was brought up about it prior to that, but I think, you know, having spoken out about the topic in such detail, um, with James, it definitely was put in front of, you know, the people probably within, um, UKAD and, you know, I definitely think it stimulated that three-year ban going, going into action, you know. And I spoke quite brutally about, you know, the circumstances that there are now in the way that UKAD deal with cases, such as Tyson Fury's, where he threatened to sue them. He was caught with an anabolic steroid, he threatened to sue them, he's got more money than UKAD, and they let him off with it.

    10. CW

      (laughs)

    11. SW

      You know? And it does become a point of, if you've got enough money or you're protected by the right people-

    12. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    13. SW

      ... you don't reap the same, um, the same, I guess, judgment.

    14. CW

      Yeah, yeah. You don't, you don't-

    15. SW

      But anyway, like I said-

    16. CW

      ... deal with the punishment in the same way.

  9. 19:43 – 22:51

    Bad days, good days: using transparency to teach resilience

    1. SW

      ... without go- yeah, without going into that with too much detail, and yeah, I do believe it had something to do with the three years that continued, that was just a further kick in the nuts. I mean, I had thought about, like I said, potentially coming back to competing because, you know, I'm, I'm aware that, um, I motivate and inspire a lot of people and I wanna continue to do that. And I think through competition, that was, you know, a massive motivation for people, um, to see how, you know, I perform and what I do on the back end. That was definitely something that was different between what I did as a weightlifter compared to a lot of other weightlifters, that I did share, um, my training, my bad days, my good days, and tried to always give that to people as a lesson to learn from, you know, what I do when I have a shit training session. And that's the thing that's no different whether you're an elite level athlete or you're just starting your journey in fitness, is you both have bad days, you'll continue to have those bad days. You'll have days where you miss lifts, you'll have days where you don't feel like training. It's still the same either, either end of the scale that you're at, um, and I think there's a lot to learn from experienced athletes in the way they deal with that, so it makes that learning curve for new people much smoother.

    2. CW

      Mm. Yeah. Again, coming back to the resilience thing, I, I, I have to say, man, like, I- I'm, even from the f- the first time-

    3. SW

      (clears throat)

    4. CW

      ... that we met each other, which was Body Power last year-

    5. SW

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      ... I've always been quite impressed with your resilience. And that's resilience, like, it's kind of a blanket coverage of resilience, right? So it's your resilience to hangovers, your resilience to-

    7. SW

      (laughs)

    8. CW

      ... (laughs) setbacks, setbacks and other bits and pieces professionally, personally, in terms of your sporting career, stuff like that. Um, 'cause one of the first conversations that we ever had when, when we were at Body Power, you'd had quite some vitriol comments by some other people in the, uh, weightlifting community. I don't, I, I don't know whether they were like, um, officials or m- more like athletes or whatever, but there were some people that were unhappy-

    9. SW

      They were, they were, they were friends. (laughs)

    10. CW

      Well, they weren't-

    11. SW

      It was even worse. (laughs)

    12. CW

      N- n- not after that. Um, but yeah-

    13. SW

      Yeah.

    14. CW

      ... like, we had these sorts of comments with people and one, you said this thing to me and it really stuck with me and it still does now, which was that, um, after you'd had your ban, people weren't prepared with just destroying your sporting career, they wanted to be able to destroy your ability to make money or to have a livelihood as well. And that really fucking hit home to me and I was like, "Jesus. Like this, this guy, like, you know, is, is now trying to splinter off into whatever small sliver of weightlifting he can still involve himself in." You know, with l- a high quality of coaching that people obviously resonate with, with a style of, of social media that is obviously engaging and entertains people. And it's like there's people f- from within the industry, uh, within the sport, and then also bureaucratically at the top of the sport that are tr- kind of really trying to play Whac-A-Mole with all of the different routes that you've got to go out.

  10. 22:51 – 25:20

    A resilience framework: depersonalize setbacks and iterate fast

    1. SW

      Yeah. It was, I mean, it was difficult and when it comes to things like that, Chris, li- like I said, and I learnt my lesson when I went through that period after my ban, that, you know, there will always be obstacles. And I overcame so many obstacles throughout my career as a lifter that I learnt that if you've really got a burning desire to achieve, and I never did what I do now to prove anything to anyone else. I've got my own goals and my own drive. And you never wanna lose sight of the fact that it is your own journey and they are your obstacles. And whenever there was another one put in front of me, I found another way around it. And you do have to have that certain element of resilience because, you know, you could take four different routes and get told no every single time. And yes, it's fucking heartbreaking, it hurts every single time, but the quicker and the better you get at taking the emotional side out of how that makes you feel and going, "Fuck, I'm angry, I'm frustrated at what's been said, I'm annoyed at the result of that," and going, "Right, what have I learnt from that? How can I change? What's the next route?" And the quicker that happens, the better your resilience gets. And it, it happens in ev- everyday stuff. You get a parking ticket, you go and see the, the car and go, "Fuck," and you get angry and you can let that ruin your whole day. You can have your whole day stewing on the fact that you've gotta pay 60 pounds and you won't pay it because you're so frustrated and you'll let it go two weeks and then all of a sudden that 60 pound fine's now a 120 pound fine. We've all done it, and it's through bitter frustration that stops us moving forward and ultimately ends up in us in a worse place-... than where we were to begin with. You know at that point when you got the parking ticket, if you had put your £2 on the ticket, okay, it would have taken you, you would had to walk the 50 meters down the road to get the ticket, to come back. You would have potentially avoided that £60 fine. That is your lesson that you learnt. So by pay- ringing up, paying that parking ticket straight away and moving on with your day, lesson learned, you're able to achieve so much more for the rest of that day. And that is a simple, I guess, analogy of the way that I would approach, um, being resilient, resilient to any sort of negativity that I've had to, to deal with. It's, it's, it's as simple as that.

  11. 25:20 – 28:26

    Choosing your response: Sam Harris & Viktor Frankl in practice

    1. CW

      There's a, a really good quote from Sam Harris where he talks about, um, try and remain angry for more than five seconds without thinking about the fact that you're angry. And it's like, the, the actual fleeting sensation of emotions, they're so short-lived, but the reason that we hold onto them, and this is where a lot of the complications come from, is that it's very rarely about the actual emotion. It's about all of our thoughts and our responses to whatever that particular emotion is. So f-forget the situation. Forget the fact that you got the parking ticket. It's no longer about the parking ticket, it's about how you ruminate over the fact that you could have just walked that 50 meters, or you should have just done this, or you should have done that. And there's-

    2. SW

      Exactly, and it's internal.

    3. CW

      Yeah, it is, and you perpetuate it, which ... And then you become the w- after that, you get the second order and third order effects, which are where you become angry at yourself for perpetuating the thing that you didn't do in the first place.

    4. SW

      (laughs)

    5. CW

      And it's so, it's so dangerous.

    6. SW

      It's a vicious cycle.

    7. CW

      It really is. There's, there's a Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl. Anyone who's listening and needs an easy read, uh, well, it's not an easy read, it's about, uh, the concentration camps in Nazi Germany, but i- it is, it is an interesting read. Um, a- and this guy was a psychologist, uh, psychotherapist, um, who was a Jew, was captured, taken to the, um, c- concentration camps. And his synopsis to the entire book is that the final thing that people can take from you, which they can never take from you, the thing which can never be taken from you, is your ability to choose your response to any given situation. No one can ever, ever take that away from you. And you think of every situation that this guy has been in. He's been stripped from his family, he's watched his, uh, wife and child die in front of him, he's had all of these horrific experiences, but the final thing that concentration camp guards couldn't take away from him was his ability to respond how he chose to any given situation.

    8. SW

      But, but that's it, Chris, and it- it frustrates other people further in the way that you respond. I mean, it still, you know, for me, in a, in a, on a daily basis, the way that I- I deal with making a stupid mistake, um, I do stupid stuff all the time. I lose my keys, I lose tickets into car parks and I- I deal with it and I, and I pay the fee or fine or whatever and I move on. And it frustrates Linda. She's like, "How can you, you know, continually do those stupid things and it not frustrate you?"

    9. CW

      Mmm.

    10. SW

      And it's the same with how can you get around, you know, not being able to do a seminar but yet you will still go on and do the next one? What do we do next? It frustrates people in the way that you respond to, um, your own, your own issues. And it's not necessarily, I think, a, a bad thing. I think it's just people deal with negativity, positivity, any sort of emotion very differently. And it's, it's hard when, you know, two people don't respond to the- the ... in the same way.

  12. 28:26 – 34:28

    High agency and ignoring the ‘keyboard war’: building despite critics

    1. CW

      Yeah, you're right. I think this probably strikes at the heart of one of the th- one of the reasons why some of the weightlifters might be, um, trying to make you out to be more of a bad guy than you are, because they're projecting their own inadequacies. The fact that you have had all of these barriers put in front of you and yet you've still got a flourishing online business, you're still selling out seminars, it's like that, I think it's a, is it that Chris Brown song where the intro to it goes, "I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club, you can't even get in"?

    2. SW

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      It's like if you, if y- if you sell five spots to a weightlifting seminar, how can you hate on the person that's selling out 30 even with all of these barriers in place? It's like, don't-

    4. SW

      But-

    5. CW

      ... d- d- don't try and make your own performance better by bring s- bringing somebody else's down. It's like, get on their level.

    6. SW

      But this happens so much i- in life, in, in the fitness industry. Instead of people working together and growing together and helping each other, cross-pollination, it doesn't. People don't like seeing other people do well and one thing that I've always done is never put fuel on the fire. You know, I get negative stuff that I have to deal with every single day and the people that probably have to deal with it the most is the people closest to me, the people that are around me when I'm at my vo- most vulnerable, the people that will see me, uh, like Linda will see me at night when I'm down, depressed about something. You know, they're the people that ultimately, um, are the ones that see you brunt the sort of, um, I guess when you're angry or when you're depressed, because I will never project negativity across my social media, which is what people want you to do. But at the end of the day, I do not use my social media platforms to be negative, to talk about negativity. It is a place to promote positivity and inspire and motivate people. So you tend, you tend to upset a lot of people because they don't get that keyboard war, that reaction that they're always looking for.

    7. CW

      Mmm, yeah, you're right. There's a-... thinking about a podcast I did with George McGill, which was Mental Models 101 and in that he talks about what he thinks is the, the single greatest or the single most valuable characteristic of the 21st century and he calls it high agency. And the perfect way to think about who your high agency friends are, is to do this thought experiment. So imagine that you're trapped in jail and you've got seven days to get out and you have to ring a friend. Like who is the friend that you're going to ring? Like that friend is the person who's got high agency and people-

    8. SW

      Yeah.

    9. CW

      ... who have high agency, you see them, you see them on the internet. We all know who they are, right? Like James has got high agency, Darren's got high agency. You've got guys like, um, uh, Ben and Lucy from My Coach School, like these people who don't give a fuck, like don't conform to whatever's expected of them, decide that they're just going to go down their own way. Like Cam, Cam's got high agency as well, the guy that does your stuff on the backend. Like he just, fu- like, "Bollocks to it, I'm just going to jump on a flight. I'll go Bali, I'll go here, I'll do some content, I'll do this." Um, and yeah, that, that high agency approach is exactly why it allows people to make progress that others think is almost unbelievable, whether it be professionally, personally, emotionally, um, you know, in terms of their sport or whatever it might be. Um, yeah, that, that, I love that, that thought experiment. Who do you reckon you'd call if you needed to get, get yourself out of jail? Who would you ring?

    10. SW

      Jeff. Jeff is always-

    11. CW

      Oh, Jeff. Of course you would. (laughs)

    12. SW

      (laughs) Je- like I call Jeff like with problems all the time because he is one of the smartest blokes I know, he's one of the best at... He is a extremely resilient human and it, he is, he never takes no as an answer.

    13. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SW

      And that's why I know whenever there's a problem that I can't solve, I put it in front of him and he will... It, it's a challenge for him.

    15. CW

      (laughs)

    16. SW

      It's a challenge for him to get that computer to say yes. And he's extremely good at it. And that is, you know, been a, um, like as you know, a huge inspiration and motivation for me because that is the way he attacks everything and I, I guarantee that has a massive contribution to why he's so successful in, not only in life, but in, you know, his business and the career he's got as well.

    17. CW

      Yeah. High agency man. He, Jeff, Jeff's a high agency guy. Although some of his shirts are like-

    18. SW

      (laughs)

    19. CW

      ... like super high agency. I, uh, funn- Jeff, if you're listening, man, I'm, I'm watching you on Instagram and some of those shirts are outrageous.

    20. SW

      Well, he's just recently sent me, I think yesterday, sent me some cloth fabrics from Dolce & Gabbana, which are shades of purple to match a specific paint grade that Lamborghini are doing on their new, uh, Lamborghini. (laughs)

    21. CW

      Of cour- I mean, why not? Why not Jeff? Just do it. It's f-

    22. SW

      That's how he rolls.

    23. CW

      That is how he rolls.

    24. SW

      That's how he rolls. (laughs)

    25. CW

      Oh man, it's unbelievable.

    26. SW

      (laughs) He's not worried about what anyone's thinking.

    27. CW

      Absolutely not.

    28. SW

      He just does his job.

    29. CW

      He just wants, he just wants a new see-through Louis Vuitton handbag that's like Perspex or whatever, that crazy thing that we saw you with last time.

    30. SW

      I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, I've still got that in the box.

  13. 34:28 – 40:44

    The content creator’s trap: algorithms, TikTok randomness, and consistency

    1. SW

      But I mean even, even then Chris, like that has slowed, that has slowed, you know, and you, and everyone's noticed it at the moment, um, the way that Instagram algorithms are working it's not how it was. I was at a period where I was making maybe 2000 followers a week to now it's more like 250 followers a week, you know, and it's a constant battle but it does play with your, with your psychology a little bit-

    2. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    3. SW

      ... because you put so much effort and time into content, um, and if it doesn't get the right reaction or likes or things that you're, engagement that you're, you're looking for, it has an effect on you. Um, and it's mad, you know, how Instagram have been playing around with the likes, I think to combat really people's, um, worry about what's liked so much and just post more about what you're passionate about and want to express.

    4. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SW

      But, um, yeah, I mean, it's... One thing I've noticed from all the guys that, you know, I'm inspired by in, in the industry in a, on a business level is consistency. And if something doesn't work the first time, don't worry, don't give up, keep on going it, keep on doing it. Be original and keep doing your own thing. After we get off the call today, I'm gonna do my next School of Sunny thing to post up. It's probably some of the worst engaged content that I've put online in terms of how many likes and views it gets, but yet it's probably the most valuable in terms of what I offer people in the videos. But it's five minutes long. People don't want to sit there for that long.

    6. CW

      Isn't it interesting-

    7. SW

      If you want to learn, you have to put in time.

    8. CW

      You have to.

    9. SW

      Mm-hmm.

    10. CW

      Isn't it interesting that we use, and this is, like everyone knows this, right, everyone's seen this before, they've, they've taken ages crafting some beautiful photo and a caption that's really meaningful to them about some moment in their life and they've put it on social media or if you're a, a content creator maybe you've spent absolutely ages crafting a really difficult video. So I got Joe Delaney, Shred Bundy, um, recently randomly did a video that was like how to do a food shop from ALDI for £3 a day and this video...... banged so hard, like one million views in the space of a couple of weeks. And this guy's worked on his YouTube channel for probably about ten years, and he's got to 100k subs, right? Then in the space-

    11. SW

      Yeah.

    12. CW

      ... of another month, he's done 50k and you just think like, "What is it about this?" And it is this total random, almost random lottery chance of winners and losers. And you're right, I do wonder s- moving forward for social media, if they were to get rid of the likes, whether that would signal people to post content which would be more valuable, 'cause we've all seen it, right? You take ages doing this thing, put this really beautiful photo up and you go, "Oh, that didn't go so well."

    13. SW

      (laughs) .

    14. CW

      Then you post like a random funny thing of you falling over in a pool or of you like looking semi-lean with a bit of a tan.

    15. SW

      And bang.

    16. CW

      Y- yeah, it goes crazy. Like there was that one, there was that one that you'd done that was like, I think it's just a close feet, uh, uh, clean grip snatch on a pl- on a red plate back in Bristol.

    17. SW

      On, on a plate, yeah.

    18. CW

      And it did like quarter of a million views and then there's some things where you've ne- nearly taken your own head off and it's like, "Oh, like, nothing." (laughs)

    19. SW

      It's, it's a combination of lighting, timing, you know, the, everything that, you know, people, people are looking for in a video. But it's like TikTok, I don't know if you've had a play around with it yet?

    20. CW

      No, not yet.

    21. SW

      Um, it's the n- it's the new sort of, I guess, Instagram. It used to be Musical.ly, uh, a lot of people are-

    22. CW

      Oh, yeah. Okay. I know, I know what that is, yeah.

    23. SW

      ... shout- shouting about it because it's kind of like the next platform. Um, so I'm playing around on it at the moment, um, just more than anything to, um, be ahead of the curve, see what people like, what people don't like, but it's a very young audience on there.

    24. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SW

      And, um, Lindal's done a video on there recently and she got 3.6 million views on it and all it is, is me and her stood, um, looking fat like holiday bloat and then turning around and then like I'm tensing and she's like doing a model pose, 3.6 million views. She's now at like 25,000 or 30,000 followers on TikTok overnight pretty much. It's (laughs) it's crazy.

    26. CW

      It's so bizarre, man. It is.

    27. SW

      (laughs)

    28. CW

      I w- like I say, man, I, I, so I, I get this as well, right? Like some of the, some of the times when I'm posting up content and it's different for me because this podcast's a passion project, although, you know-

    29. SW

      Mm-hmm.

    30. CW

      ... increasingly it's-

  14. 40:44 – 44:53

    Business growth principles: outsourcing, incentives, and ‘skin in the game’

    1. SW

      Yeah. It's, um, definitely something that I've realized over time that in order to grow you have to start investing in, you know, people to help you, other staff members, invest in, you know, new technology, new software because there's only so far you can go nowadays on your own back and you've only got so much time to do it in. So it's definitely something that over time I've started thinking about doing.

    2. CW

      (inhales) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that... We do this business principal series which we've, we've started doing recently and in that one of the ones that we haven't got round to but we'll probably take up a full episode on is outsourcing, um, areas that you are weak in. So I remember one of the first big episodes that I did was with Mike Cazau, guy that owns Brute Strength, two times CrossFit-

    3. SW

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      ... Affiliate Cup, uh, Games champion, t- like in the team in like 2010, 2011 and, um, I- I remember asking him about like how, how did you grow? Because his missus owns WAG, Working Against Gravity, uh, AD and then he owns like Brute Strength. It's like fucking hell. Like, h- h- how do you have two people that are both CEOs at like such like high level companies in the same industry? And he said that both of them just do the same thing, which is they r- know exactly where their strengths and their weaknesses lie and they employ people ruthlessly to fill in where those weaknesses are.

    5. SW

      Yeah. Well, I've just, I've just hired a, a videographer, but one of the tips for me when it just comes to, when it work- comes to working with people, instead of just paying someone a set fee, give them skin in the game, give them a stake in, in what you're doing and it is far more motivating for that person to work harder, to grow with you and to grow your business, especially when you're starting out, especially when you don't necessarily have the cash flow to pay someone a wage. You know, I've just taken on a videographer and... 'cause I've always wanted to do YouTube and I don't have the time to sit down and edit a video. So instead of saying, "Look, how much does it cost to put together a video?" I said, "Look, you'll have 20% of all the revenue that we make on YouTube."... there is a lot of scale then for that person to put in time and effort to making that video great.

    6. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SW

      And, you know, I think people then t- tend to take a lot more time into getting something done well if you give them that sort of incentive.

    8. CW

      Skin in the game's the perfect analogy for that, so, uh, I use that across most of my businesses, if not all of them. Good example, Video Guy Dean, who everyone that's watching will know, he'll be the guy that's editing this right now-

    9. SW

      Yeah.

    10. CW

      ... he takes, he takes 50% of all of the revenue that we make on YouTube. I brought him on board with every project I've just done. We just did our first brand collab with Reebok UK for the 909 release. We split that straight down-

    11. SW

      Yeah.

    12. CW

      ... the middle. I went and did a, um, a Christmas seminar for CommuniCorp, which is one of the UK's biggest broadcasting companies. They own Smooth Radio and Capital FM and few other bits. And, uh, that, again, brought Dean in on that, and we keep on going and, you know, now he's got-

    13. SW

      Yeah.

    14. CW

      ... things, he's incentivized to do that. And then, uh, a lot of people ask about the club promo, um, and how that ties in. A good example of this is, um, when we go and run an event in a nightclub, there's two ways that we can do things. We can do a dry hire, which is, it's £1,000 pounds a night or £500 pounds a night or £2,000 pounds a night, whatever it might be. Or we say, "You're on 20% of the door, or 30% of the door, or however much percent of the door." And obviously, if you have something which is a percentage, it protects you on the bottom end, because if you've got low revenue, which inevitably everyone has, everyone has low revenue when they first start a business, right? It means that that person isn't this huge liability, which you've got to keep on shelling out, digging into your reserves, which then down the line-

    15. SW

      Yeah.

    16. CW

      ... I mean, you invest your money less effectively moving forward. But what it does for the person who is being offered the deal is, yeah, maybe they lose a little bit on the bottom end, but on the top end when the business really starts shifting, that's when they get repaid. So it's all well and good then-

    17. SW

      Everyone wins.

    18. CW

      ... it's, a venue comes to us and says, "Oh, well, we want £1,000 pounds a night." And we go, "Okay, well, let's say that you, you take 20% of the door." Oh, well, m- you know, in the mid, depths of December, they might walk away with 500 quid, but on Halloween, they might walk away with five grand. So you're like, "Well, there you go."

    19. SW

      Yeah, exactly.

  15. 44:53 – 55:01

    What’s next: smarter travel, retreats, Saudi coaching, and giving back (Soweto gym)

    1. CW

      It's good, man. So what's, what's next? You've got Aussie summer, it's Aussie, Aussie summer, but Christmas is coming up, right?

    2. SW

      Coming into Aussie summer, yes, that's it. So for me, um, I spent so much of this year traveling, um, I still love doing my seminars, you know, I've started doing retreats now, um, as well, which definitely offer people a lot more than just improvement in their lifting. I get to show people, um, the beauties of Bali, um, and meeting new people. Um, it definitely brings people out of themselves and takes them out of them comfort zones. I'm having more of an impact on people than just making them better at lifting, which, you know, is very fulfilling for me and something that I very much enjoy. Uh, I still love traveling and I still love doing my seminars and that's getting popular and popular again. But moving forward, this year I'm not going to be zigzagging, um, the planet doing seminars, um, as much as I love doing them. I'm going to be a little bit smarter about the ones I'm doing, um, and try and just spend a little bit more time here up now till, till Christmas. Uh, get into a good routine, get feeling good about myself again, um, get in shape, get a six pack for the summer, um, get lifting heavy. I've got one trip to, um, Saudi Arabia to coach, um, someone at their house, so a private coaching session-

    3. CW

      No way.

    4. SW

      ... in Saudi Arabia-

    5. CW

      No way.

    6. SW

      ... which is gonna be cool for a weekend.

    7. CW

      That's insane.

    8. SW

      Yeah. Which is, that's exciting man, you know, it's something new that someone just reached out to me offering me that, so I'm gonna be doing that and, you know, who knows what's gonna be coming next, but definitely for this, for, for the near, near future, um, it's just getting back to my routine and yeah, simple stuff, brother.

    9. CW

      Only in Saudi Arabia would someone have the cash to be able to fly you from Oz all the way over there.

    10. SW

      (laughs)

    11. CW

      Oh my God.

    12. SW

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. CW

      Yeah. Lindal's gonna have to make sure that you don't come back as like part of an arranged marriage or something like that, and you just get wifed up-

    14. SW

      Wow. I could, I could, I couldn't even-

    15. CW

      ... while you're over there.

    16. SW

      C- c- can't even re- I couldn't even do take Lynn, but, um-

    17. CW

      Oh shit, yeah, of course not.

    18. SW

      ... it's hard to think about, but yeah. I've gotta go to the embassy and get all signed off and everything this week, so-

    19. CW

      That's serious.

    20. SW

      Yeah, it's not a... But how exciting, you know. Um-

    21. CW

      That's sick, man.

    22. SW

      And then I think January will start traveling again, gonna do some seminars in the Middle East, uh, January, and then I've just today sorted out seminars for Toronto, um, in Feb, and then I've also got another training retreat in Bali in February. So I'm up to February of next year.

    23. CW

      Mm-hmm.

    24. SW

      Um, pretty much planned, so I'm trying to go a little bit further ahead this time-

    25. CW

      Mm.

    26. SW

      ... than normally.

    27. CW

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    28. SW

      Than normal.

    29. CW

      R- Just spinning the plates all the time. Toronto in February-

    30. SW

      What-

Episode duration: 55:01

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