SONNY WEBSTER | Bad Days, Good Days & Staying Resilient | Modern Wisdom Podcast 114

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   So, obviously my initial…

   1. SWSonny Webster0:00

      So, obviously my initial ban was, was four years. Um, I then received a further three-year ban for coaching athletes that compete. So that totaled my ban to seven years. Weightlifting's been the biggest part of my life ever since I was 11 years old and to have that taken away from you is very difficult. Uh, I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, probably losing a loved one or something very similar because it made up so much of my life and still does. As heartbreaking as that was, and it was a very low point in my life after that, I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever gonna be able to move on with my life. I learnt that if you really got a burning desire to achieve, and I never did what I do now to prove anything to anyone else, I've got my own goals and my own drive. And you never wanna lose sight of the fact that it is your own journey, and they are your obstacles.

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00

      Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. I managed to get him all the way from the other side of the planet. It's Sonny Webster. How are you, mate?

   3. SWSonny Webster1:07

      Hey, Chris. How you doing, brother?

   4. CWChris Williamson1:08

      Yeah, good to see you, man. How's, how's life in the future? 'Cause you're in the future right now.

   5. SWSonny Webster1:13

      I'm not being funny, mate. This is a long overdue chat. I can't, when was the last time I was on the podcast?

   6. CWChris Williamson1:20

      Uh, over a year ago now. So it was that same weekend that we did... Was it the same weekend we did Elroe?

   7. SWSonny Webster1:27

      (laughs) Yeah.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:30

      (laughs)

   9. SWSonny Webster1:30

      Lost, yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:31

       Which was also-

   11. SWSonny Webster1:32

       Lost years of my life that weekend.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:33

       ... coincidentally the s- the, the last time that I drank in the UK. So it's been like 18-

   13. SWSonny Webster1:38

       Really? Wow.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:39

       Yeah, man. That was, that was the last time that I drank in the UK, so it'll be like, what, 14 months or something now since then. I'm not saying that going out with you, like, cursed drinking-

   15. SWSonny Webster1:50

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson1:51

       ... (laughs) it was a-

   17. SWSonny Webster1:51

       I think I've done that to a few people though, so-

   18. CWChris Williamson1:54

       I think you have as well.

   19. SWSonny Webster1:54

       ... you wouldn't be the first.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:55

       You are, like before we even start talking about anything, can we discuss about your ability to drink? Because like I've never met anyone who is able to go out, like, on the, on the lash the way you are and then get up the next morning and just go and do, teach a seminar in Scotland or something. You got up at like 10:00 AM or 11:00 AM. I didn't r- I didn't surface until like the middle of the afternoon.

   21. SWSonny Webster2:19

       (laughs)

   22. CWChris Williamson2:19

       By the time that I'd got out of bed, you'd done a seminar in Glasgow or something.

   23. SWSonny Webster2:24

       Do you know what? I think it's a thing with weightlifters is, is part of like the growing up is you have to be able to drink. You will never become a great weightlifter if you can't drink. I remember right back from a young age, I must have been 14 years old going on weightlifting training camps and the more senior athletes would say to you right on a Friday night after training, "You're coming to the pub with us and you're having a drink." And you don't really have a choice. You do as you're told-

   24. CWChris Williamson2:52

       (laughs)

   25. SWSonny Webster2:52

       ... 'cause they're much bigger and much stronger than you, and you want to fit in. And it becomes part of, I guess, the nature of, you know, being a weightlifter, especially the way that we go about, you know, competition.

   26. CWChris Williamson3:03

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SWSonny Webster3:03

       You would train really hard for like six weeks, seven weeks, maybe up to six months on end for a competition and you won't drink at all. So then you blow out, so your ability at binge drinking becomes extremely good (laughs) .

   28. CWChris Williamson3:17

       Yeah, you, it's definitely a, uh, something that you're capable of. I suppose as well, like, weightlifters are, there's a lot of muscle mass in there that can probably metabolize their alcohol pretty quick and they're f- they're competitive. You're literally bred to be competitive. So yeah.

   29. SWSonny Webster3:31

       (laughs)

   30. CWChris Williamson3:31

       Compet- (laughs) competitive drinking, I can imagine is pretty bad. But what else is going on, man? 'Cause like, so the last time that the listeners will have seen you, you were in the UK. You were, um, yeah, I don't think you'd even started, uh, like the Sonny Webster Academy by then. So like catch us up over the last year. What's happened?
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah, well, I mean,…

   1. CWChris Williamson15:00

      you're, right now, you're unable to do that.

   2. SWSonny Webster15:04

      Yeah, well, I mean, that was, you know, a heartbreaking stage in, in my life and as you would have listened to, to James's podcast, it was the first time that I'd actually last year felt in the right place to, um, discuss my doping ban and, you know, how it's affected me moving forward. You know, weightlifting's been the biggest part of my life ever since I was 11 years old and to have that taken away from you, um, is very difficult. I suppose it's, I can only liken it to, if there's anyone listening, it's probably losing, losing a loved one or something very similar because it made up so much of my life and still does. And yes, it is like an itch now for me when, you know, I still have that burning desire to, um, wanna compete and to be competitive and it's something, you know, that I can't do now.

   3. CWChris Williamson15:57

      Yeah. Uh, you know, having been around you for quite a while and having been mates with you for quite a while, it's one thing that I do think is impressive is your resilience over the last sort of 18 months. There's been a number of setbacks, like the, the first, your first ban and then, like, a subsequent kind of additional, uh, like kick in the balls after that as well. Um, and-

   4. SWSonny Webster16:21

      Yeah.

   5. CWChris Williamson16:21

      ... and that appears to be continuing, not just with competition but with, like, coaching as well?

   6. SWSonny Webster16:29

      Yeah. I mean, so obviously my initial ban was, was four years. Um, I then received a further, um, three-year ban for, um, coaching athletes that compete was what they gave me the second ban for. Um, so that totaled my ban to seven years. Um, and even so now, I mean, right back to when I first came to Australia, um, Australian Weightlifting Federation, New Zealand Weightlifting Federation were putting in the news and stuff like that to say, "If anyone attends Sonny's weightlifting seminars who's a competitive athlete, then, um, you're impeding, uh, a doping violation and therefore you could get banned as well." And it's been the first time that they've ever tried to impact these sort of levels of rules on anyone. And, you know, for myself serving currently a seven-year ban, one of the longest bans i- in weightlifting, especially for an out-of-hours, out-of-competition test in which, you know, I pursued my case and gave it a bloody good go at proving that it had come from contamination and wasn't, um, ingested knowingly, um, and I did everything I possibly could to attempt to prove that and still to come away with that level of severity of ban was, you know, it was heartbreaking. But, you know, it's like I said back on James's podcast, um, as heartbreaking as that was and it was a very low point in my life after that, I had to draw a line in the sand if I was ever gonna be able to move on with my life and go, "Yeah, this is the most terrible thing that could ever happen to you." And at this point, I'd only had the four years. But I need to continue on with my life. I need to, um, continue to spread my passion and love for the sport, um, and, you know...Who's to say that I would never have come back and competed again? But after having spoken out about that last time was when I received the s- the second three years. So, uh-

   7. CWChris Williamson18:31

      Do you think, um, do y-

   8. SWSonny Webster18:31

      ... I'm not gonna th-

   9. CWChris Williamson18:32

      Do you think that you would have got that, or, or do you think that s- speaking out and perhaps publicizing what happened on James' podcast led to that additional three years, at least hastening its arrival or li- improving the likelihood of it happening?

   10. SWSonny Webster18:47

       100%. You know, there was nothing that was brought up about it prior to that, but I think, you know, having spoken out about the topic in such detail, um, with James, it definitely was put in front of, you know, the people probably within, um, UKAD and, you know, I definitely think it stimulated that three-year ban going, going into action, you know. And I spoke quite brutally about, you know, the circumstances that there are now in the way that UKAD deal with cases, such as Tyson Fury's, where he threatened to sue them. He was caught with an anabolic steroid, he threatened to sue them, he's got more money than UKAD, and they let him off with it.

   11. CWChris Williamson19:29

       (laughs)

   12. SWSonny Webster19:29

       You know? And it does become a point of, if you've got enough money or you're protected by the right people-

   13. CWChris Williamson19:35

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SWSonny Webster19:36

       ... you don't reap the same, um, the same, I guess, judgment.

   15. CWChris Williamson19:41

       Yeah, yeah. You don't, you don't-

   16. SWSonny Webster19:42

       But anyway, like I said-

   17. CWChris Williamson19:42

       ... deal with the punishment in the same way.

   18. SWSonny Webster19:43

       ... without go- yeah, without going into that with too much detail, and yeah, I do believe it had something to do with the three years that continued, that was just a further kick in the nuts. I mean, I had thought about, like I said, potentially coming back to competing because, you know, I'm, I'm aware that, um, I motivate and inspire a lot of people and I wanna continue to do that. And I think through competition, that was, you know, a massive motivation for people, um, to see how, you know, I perform and what I do on the back end. That was definitely something that was different between what I did as a weightlifter compared to a lot of other weightlifters, that I did share, um, my training, my bad days, my good days, and tried to always give that to people as a lesson to learn from, you know, what I do when I have a shit training session. And that's the thing that's no different whether you're an elite level athlete or you're just starting your journey in fitness, is you both have bad days, you'll continue to have those bad days. You'll have days where you miss lifts, you'll have days where you don't feel like training. It's still the same either, either end of the scale that you're at, um, and I think there's a lot to learn from experienced athletes in the way they deal with that, so it makes that learning curve for new people much smoother.

   19. CWChris Williamson21:03

       Mm. Yeah. Again, coming back to the resilience thing, I, I, I have to say, man, like, I- I'm, even from the f- the first time-

   20. SWSonny Webster21:11

       (clears throat)

   21. CWChris Williamson21:11

       ... that we met each other, which was Body Power last year-

   22. SWSonny Webster21:13

       Yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson21:13

       ... I've always been quite impressed with your resilience. And that's resilience, like, it's kind of a blanket coverage of resilience, right? So it's your resilience to hangovers, your resilience to-

   24. SWSonny Webster21:23

       (laughs)

   25. CWChris Williamson21:25

       ... (laughs) setbacks, setbacks and other bits and pieces professionally, personally, in terms of your sporting career, stuff like that. Um, 'cause one of the first conversations that we ever had when, when we were at Body Power, you'd had quite some vitriol comments by some other people in the, uh, weightlifting community. I don't, I, I don't know whether they were like, um, officials or m- more like athletes or whatever, but there were some people that were unhappy-

   26. SWSonny Webster21:48

       They were, they were, they were friends. (laughs)

   27. CWChris Williamson21:50

       Well, they weren't-

   28. SWSonny Webster21:51

       It was even worse. (laughs)

   29. CWChris Williamson21:51

       N- n- not after that. Um, but yeah-

   30. SWSonny Webster21:54

       Yeah.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mmm, yeah, you're right.…

   1. SWSonny Webster30:00

      that see you brunt the sort of, um, I guess when you're angry or when you're depressed, because I will never project negativity across my social media, which is what people want you to do. But at the end of the day, I do not use my social media platforms to be negative, to talk about negativity. It is a place to promote positivity and inspire and motivate people. So you tend, you tend to upset a lot of people because they don't get that keyboard war, that reaction that they're always looking for.

   2. CWChris Williamson30:32

      Mmm, yeah, you're right. There's a-... thinking about a podcast I did with George McGill, which was Mental Models 101 and in that he talks about what he thinks is the, the single greatest or the single most valuable characteristic of the 21st century and he calls it high agency. And the perfect way to think about who your high agency friends are, is to do this thought experiment. So imagine that you're trapped in jail and you've got seven days to get out and you have to ring a friend. Like who is the friend that you're going to ring? Like that friend is the person who's got high agency and people-

   3. SWSonny Webster31:07

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson31:07

      ... who have high agency, you see them, you see them on the internet. We all know who they are, right? Like James has got high agency, Darren's got high agency. You've got guys like, um, uh, Ben and Lucy from My Coach School, like these people who don't give a fuck, like don't conform to whatever's expected of them, decide that they're just going to go down their own way. Like Cam, Cam's got high agency as well, the guy that does your stuff on the backend. Like he just, fu- like, "Bollocks to it, I'm just going to jump on a flight. I'll go Bali, I'll go here, I'll do some content, I'll do this." Um, and yeah, that, that high agency approach is exactly why it allows people to make progress that others think is almost unbelievable, whether it be professionally, personally, emotionally, um, you know, in terms of their sport or whatever it might be. Um, yeah, that, that, I love that, that thought experiment. Who do you reckon you'd call if you needed to get, get yourself out of jail? Who would you ring?

   5. SWSonny Webster31:59

      Jeff. Jeff is always-

   6. CWChris Williamson32:01

      Oh, Jeff. Of course you would. (laughs)

   7. SWSonny Webster32:03

      (laughs) Je- like I call Jeff like with problems all the time because he is one of the smartest blokes I know, he's one of the best at... He is a extremely resilient human and it, he is, he never takes no as an answer.

   8. CWChris Williamson32:20

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SWSonny Webster32:20

      And that's why I know whenever there's a problem that I can't solve, I put it in front of him and he will... It, it's a challenge for him.

   10. CWChris Williamson32:29

       (laughs)

   11. SWSonny Webster32:29

       It's a challenge for him to get that computer to say yes. And he's extremely good at it. And that is, you know, been a, um, like as you know, a huge inspiration and motivation for me because that is the way he attacks everything and I, I guarantee that has a massive contribution to why he's so successful in, not only in life, but in, you know, his business and the career he's got as well.

   12. CWChris Williamson32:51

       Yeah. High agency man. He, Jeff, Jeff's a high agency guy. Although some of his shirts are like-

   13. SWSonny Webster32:57

       (laughs)

   14. CWChris Williamson32:57

       ... like super high agency. I, uh, funn- Jeff, if you're listening, man, I'm, I'm watching you on Instagram and some of those shirts are outrageous.

   15. SWSonny Webster33:06

       Well, he's just recently sent me, I think yesterday, sent me some cloth fabrics from Dolce & Gabbana, which are shades of purple to match a specific paint grade that Lamborghini are doing on their new, uh, Lamborghini. (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson33:22

       Of cour- I mean, why not? Why not Jeff? Just do it. It's f-

   17. SWSonny Webster33:26

       That's how he rolls.

   18. CWChris Williamson33:27

       That is how he rolls.

   19. SWSonny Webster33:28

       That's how he rolls. (laughs)

   20. CWChris Williamson33:29

       Oh man, it's unbelievable.

   21. SWSonny Webster33:31

       (laughs) He's not worried about what anyone's thinking.

   22. CWChris Williamson33:33

       Absolutely not.

   23. SWSonny Webster33:34

       He just does his job.

   24. CWChris Williamson33:34

       He just wants, he just wants a new see-through Louis Vuitton handbag that's like Perspex or whatever, that crazy thing that we saw you with last time.

   25. SWSonny Webster33:42

       I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, I've still got that in the box.

   26. CWChris Williamson33:45

       Have you?

   27. SWSonny Webster33:46

       It's not been opened. (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson33:47

       Honestly. Um, so yeah, I, I, I, I totally get it man and I, I think as well what you're talking about, this kind of unfaltering positivity, you do show your vulnerability online, like we all do, right? But I, I think you're right, it really, really grinds on people when they don't get the response that they wanted. And that response could be something direct from you or the failing of your career or the, the even just the slowing of your career, right? Like when I met you, I think that weekend at Bodypower was when you crossed the 100K on Insta, and what are you at now, like 250 or something?

   29. SWSonny Webster34:22

       220.

   30. CWChris Williamson34:23

       Yeah. Like, so that, you know, that's more than doubled in a space of just over a year, which is, you know, there's people-
4. 45:00 – 55:01

   Coming into Aussie summer,…

   1. CWChris Williamson45:00

      up, right?

   2. SWSonny Webster45:00

      Coming into Aussie summer, yes, that's it. So for me, um, I spent so much of this year traveling, um, I still love doing my seminars, you know, I've started doing retreats now, um, as well, which definitely offer people a lot more than just improvement in their lifting. I get to show people, um, the beauties of Bali, um, and meeting new people. Um, it definitely brings people out of themselves and takes them out of them comfort zones. I'm having more of an impact on people than just making them better at lifting, which, you know, is very fulfilling for me and something that I very much enjoy. Uh, I still love traveling and I still love doing my seminars and that's getting popular and popular again. But moving forward, this year I'm not going to be zigzagging, um, the planet doing seminars, um, as much as I love doing them. I'm going to be a little bit smarter about the ones I'm doing, um, and try and just spend a little bit more time here up now till, till Christmas. Uh, get into a good routine, get feeling good about myself again, um, get in shape, get a six pack for the summer, um, get lifting heavy. I've got one trip to, um, Saudi Arabia to coach, um, someone at their house, so a private coaching session-

   3. CWChris Williamson46:17

      No way.

   4. SWSonny Webster46:17

      ... in Saudi Arabia-

   5. CWChris Williamson46:18

      No way.

   6. SWSonny Webster46:18

      ... which is gonna be cool for a weekend.

   7. CWChris Williamson46:19

      That's insane.

   8. SWSonny Webster46:20

      Yeah. Which is, that's exciting man, you know, it's something new that someone just reached out to me offering me that, so I'm gonna be doing that and, you know, who knows what's gonna be coming next, but definitely for this, for, for the near, near future, um, it's just getting back to my routine and yeah, simple stuff, brother.

   9. CWChris Williamson46:38

      Only in Saudi Arabia would someone have the cash to be able to fly you from Oz all the way over there.

   10. SWSonny Webster46:43

       (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson46:43

       Oh my God.

   12. SWSonny Webster46:45

       Yeah. (laughs)

   13. CWChris Williamson46:46

       Yeah. Lindal's gonna have to make sure that you don't come back as like part of an arranged marriage or something like that, and you just get wifed up-

   14. SWSonny Webster46:51

       Wow. I could, I could, I couldn't even-

   15. CWChris Williamson46:52

       ... while you're over there.

   16. SWSonny Webster46:52

       C- c- can't even re- I couldn't even do take Lynn, but, um-

   17. CWChris Williamson46:57

       Oh shit, yeah, of course not.

   18. SWSonny Webster46:58

       ... it's hard to think about, but yeah. I've gotta go to the embassy and get all signed off and everything this week, so-

   19. CWChris Williamson47:03

       That's serious.

   20. SWSonny Webster47:04

       Yeah, it's not a... But how exciting, you know. Um-

   21. CWChris Williamson47:07

       That's sick, man.

   22. SWSonny Webster47:07

       And then I think January will start traveling again, gonna do some seminars in the Middle East, uh, January, and then I've just today sorted out seminars for Toronto, um, in Feb, and then I've also got another training retreat in Bali in February. So I'm up to February of next year.

   23. CWChris Williamson47:25

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SWSonny Webster47:26

       Um, pretty much planned, so I'm trying to go a little bit further ahead this time-

   25. CWChris Williamson47:31

       Mm.

   26. SWSonny Webster47:31

       ... than normally.

   27. CWChris Williamson47:32

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   28. SWSonny Webster47:32

       Than normal.

   29. CWChris Williamson47:33

       R- Just spinning the plates all the time. Toronto in February-

   30. SWSonny Webster47:36

       What-

Episode duration: 55:01