EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,052 words- 0:00 – 6:17
Why Did Jon Stop Touring?
- CWChris Williamson
New album.
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
But you're not touring right now.
- JBJon Bellion
No.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- JBJon Bellion
(laughs) Right into it. Um, the touring thing is, uh, it's been a bit of a... I toured for a really long time before I walked away from artistry for about six or seven years. Um, I've given this, uh, this spiel a couple of times, but it's just like kind of figured out how the ins and outs worked of it. Understood what the toll on my life was opposed to what I was getting paid for what I was bringing in, and the business just didn't make sense of it. So I've walked away from that a long time ago and then was able to, this time around, just kind of like really do inventory on what's important to me and what I want to do. And we were able to do, uh, Forest Hills Stadium, just two nights, back to back, sold out in a couple hours (laughs) . And, uh, because the deal was right, and I understand the business more, I can just drive home in my minivan and collect my money and be paid more than I've ever done for touring combined in two nights.
- CWChris Williamson
Two nights made you more than entire tours previously?
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah. Yeah. Just 'cause the d- because... I don't regret any of it, but it just, it definitely put it in perspective, "Oh, oh, this is how they're killing you. This is how they're getting you on the backside." And-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
So, yeah. Yeah. So we ended up doing just two nights. 26,000 people showed up. It's crazy. Crazy. After s- ever- after six or seven years of being away, it was like moving, super emotional.
- CWChris Williamson
After such a long hiatus, were you surprised by the positive response to the album and the-
- JBJon Bellion
Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
... the Forest Hills shows?
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah. I think you, you, you build up, like, it's like Dre with Detox or, like, you build up this thing and then the expectation becomes so high that you'll never be able to whatever. So I think I was fortunate enough to just like disappear and go away and write for other people for a super long time.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
And I think that the pressure was off because I think the fans after a while were just like, "I actually just don't think he'll ever put out music again." So then when I was like, "I'm putting out music," they didn't have time for there to be this unrealistic expectation of like Step Brothers 2 (laughs) . Like, they didn't have to, it didn't have to be Dumb and Dumber 2. Like, it just was... And on top of that, I just like became a completely different person in seven years. Like, you're tapping in with a t- the sound was different. My approach was different. Everything was different. So I think people were like fascinated and interested, and it ended up being a blessing. It was a bigger debut, top six in the country, top 10 in the world, like. And I'm not even like fakely like, "Oh, it's b- it's been a shock of a blessing," and it's, and this time around, you don't get to do things twice.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
I almost feel like I'm like Scrooge or something, like I woke up on Christmas again, and I'm like, "I get to do this over."
- CWChris Williamson
Run it back.
- JBJon Bellion
So looking out at a stadium, sold out, two nights in a row, and I've never done that six years ago. Somehow it got bigger by the time I came back. I wasn't even in my own self. I was like watching the movie being like, "This is crazy."
- CWChris Williamson
How'd that feel? You're so familiar with playing, performing live stuff.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And then you do it-
- JBJon Bellion
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... and it's the same, it's the shit that you've done hundreds of times before.
- JBJon Bellion
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's different at the same time.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm interested in what that-
- JBJon Bellion
I had one of my guys who's played with me since we were in college, my, my buddy George, he's one of my, my closest, closest friends. And, uh, he was on keys behind me, and we both after the show just like held each other. Like, just like, you don't e- at this point, it's like I'm on such borrowed time. I really feel that way. Like, that's like you don't get to walk away and then end up being like nailing a few number ones to like pay for your life and then accept the fact that the artist is never coming back.
- 6:17 – 20:04
How to Trust Your Instincts
- JBJon Bellion
- CWChris Williamson
When were you furthest away from that resonance?
- JBJon Bellion
What do you mean?
- CWChris Williamson
You, so you mentioned that you're, uh, trying to be as, uh, transparent, as, as connected as possible to the work that you do-
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... to the artistic integrity-
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... of how you're producing things-
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
... your time with your family-
- JBJon Bellion
Totally.
- CWChris Williamson
... presumably time with friends.
- JBJon Bellion
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
E- even like album artwork. You, you're deep on everything, right?
- JBJon Bellion
Yes. Yep. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, is there a time looking back where that felt more or most out of alignment where you're like, "Ooh, I really veered off a little bit there-"
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"... and I started playing the game to a level that I could feel?"
- JBJon Bellion
I think maybe the day, like the first day you get the first thing on YouTube, the first, "Ooh, I had 5,000 views on the last one. This one has 10." I think the second that became the feedback loop of positivity and whatever, you get yourself on a little bit of a train that's, you don't even know you're on the train until the, the shit crashes. You're like, "I didn't even..." It's like frog in the boiling water type of situation.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep.
- JBJon Bellion
I think I was always on a trajectory of it's the same thing. It's like you'd mention any artist who's like, "I had the most money and I was ready to kill myself. Look at the crazy story of artist X." And everyone's like, "Wow, what a deep s-" It's the same archetype over and over and o-... (laughs) I just happen to be blessed enough, just blessed enough to be like, "I don't know how I'm gonna walk away from this. I don't know how this is gonna work out." 'Cause I wasn't writing for other people at the time. I'm going back home and I'm gonna make music in my basement and I'm just gonna walk away.
- CWChris Williamson
Maybe work at McDonald's.
- JBJon Bellion
I told my wife that. It's crazy. (laughs) I told my wife that. I says, "Yes." And she's laughing at me. She's like, "You, you're forgetting how talented you are. You've been doing this for a long time." But I just walked away. And then by the grace of God, it was like, (laughs) it was like, pew, pew. Like hit after hit. But I think that was because I may have shedded, I may have shedded a, "What do people want and what's gonna feed the next..."
- CWChris Williamson
Expectation.
- JBJon Bellion
It was like, "My heart is vibrating with this song, and maybe that's what humans wanted and that will always cut through." So I try to just stay to that. I try to... I know that sounds super pseudo, like heavy and-
- CWChris Williamson
It doesn't, dude. I, I, I-
- JBJon Bellion
... whatever, but-
- CWChris Williamson
... I couldn't, I couldn't resonate more. Like it's... Instinct is the only thing that's ever led you right.
- JBJon Bellion
Ever.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- 20:04 – 38:49
Finding Balance In Your Chaotic Life
- CWChris Williamson
I love this point, the idea of like artistic validity or- or artistic purity or something.
- JBJon Bellion
Oh my gosh.
- CWChris Williamson
I mean, how many people... Music is very ripe with this, but maybe even art, modern art-
- JBJon Bellion
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... for instance, would be even more so, that the more obscure or inaccessible-
- JBJon Bellion
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... or clunky or difficult it is to get or to understand, the more sophisticated you seem. Look at how refined he is.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
He's able to, um-
- JBJon Bellion
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... consider the- the- the complexity-
- JBJon Bellion
Oh my gosh.
- CWChris Williamson
... and the depth.
- JBJon Bellion
Oh my gosh.
- CWChris Williamson
And you're like, if it doesn't... If it's not popular, it can't have impact, like as in if nobody wants it.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You can think it's the coolest shit on the planet, and maybe it is, but if the world isn't ready for this-
- JBJon Bellion
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
... it doesn't matter.
- JBJon Bellion
You can... I say it all the time, I make the joke in the studio all the time, if you want to be... You- you have to be seen, so there has to be something that makes it attractive. To say that nothing I do is attractive and I don't care if anybody listens to my shit, it's like, all right, then live in your parents' basement, eat a bowl of cereal every day, and be broke as a joke until you're 50.
- CWChris Williamson
Enjoy making it.
- JBJon Bellion
And, like, okay, I guess... But I'm not saying that that v- that validates bullshit. The, I've seen the bull- I- I've- I've, uh, I've worked on the bullshit.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
I've worked on the most poignant-
- CWChris Williamson
Just the gray sludge pumped out.
- JBJon Bellion
... which we understand that the mom who's taking her kids to soccer on a Tuesday is gonna turn on the radio and just listen to that. There's- there's a directive there, there's a lot of money there, but if it- for me to like waste time to just be like, "I am the most pure da da da," it puts too much... It's a young man's game. It's- it's young man's game. To be- to me, thank the Lord for my album. Father Figure is- is my space to go and say, go listen to what I'm saying and put it up against ba da ba da ba, da da da da da, that's a whole different thing. But far be it from me to not, like, take a couple of days off to go work with XX to go make something huge that the world who doesn't really care about... Some people care about boxed wine, some people care about stomping on the grapes.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
And sometimes boxed wine sells because then a 21-year-old who's going to a party just needs to grab something to 7-Eleven. And that's viable, that's real, and that's a necessity, and there's utility in that. To- for me to say that there's not utility in that is- is so like- like pew pew, like, I understand art. And it's like, what's your utility? If the utility is to serve, then you can't get your way 100% of the time, 'cause that's not serving. It's like... And in order to be fulfilled in what you do, there has to be a s- a slice of servitude. Humanity and vanity are very important. You can't just always be vanity 'cause then people will hate you, and you can't just always be humanity 'cause you'll just get used up. There has to be this clunky, disgusting, muddy, in between grayness as a human or at least as a creator to help me live with myself. I have to be okay with both sides. I have to. 'Cause the second I say, "I'm never gonna be an artist anymore," I look pretty stupid going and being an artist. So it's like, I wake up every day being like, if my gut tells me to go in that direction, hopefully it works out.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
It's a young man's game to be so sure of myself. I was so sure of myself in my early 20s. I knew everything.
- 38:49 – 48:11
How to Find Joy In Small Things
- CWChris Williamson
I've heard you say the most talented people in the world sometimes don't make the best shit to listen to.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- JBJon Bellion
For sure.
- CWChris Williamson
What gets in the way? You would assume-
- JBJon Bellion
So funny the way my mind works. I'm like, I'm already editing that. Like, I'm like, uh, well ...
- CWChris Williamson
Well, what would you say?
- JBJon Bellion
In my opin- ... Yeah, it's like ... I think I've been blessed with an understanding that when I'm listening to something, I think in my head, "Humans will feel good because of this. People will enjoy this thing that hits this thing, and this will work, and this will be pleasing to people." It's a, it's, it's a thing when I'm creating. I want this to feel pleasing to you. I want you to be affected by this. I want you to be, have goosebumps and to be affected, not just look at how, uh, talented I am. I know motherfuckers who could sing the phone book. Doesn't mean when they play me the MP3 in the car that I'm like, "I'm gonna listen to that song again." It's like, "You're singing really great, but I just, there's nothing about it that makes me ..." And I don't know what that, that about it is, which is my obsession. I love that. I live in the about it. I'm not the greatest singer. I'm not the greatest rapper. I'm not the greatest producer. I'm not the greatest, um, piano player, chord guy, harmony guy. But I just am like, "Ooh, I think people will like that," and I can now find a way to get ... I know who to call to, to get it to the thing that I think people will like, and that's worked for me (laughs) . It's worked for me. I don't know. People might say I'm f- I'm talented, but, like, I also just really, really, really, really deeply, to the point of tears, love what I do every day. I love it. I love it, I love it, I love it. Everything else is like a, a day at work. For me to go in there, s- 7:00 a.m. I come in at 11:00 a.m., leave at 7:00 a.m., I get dinner at my house, I play with my boys, I put 'em to bed and wake up and do the same thing every day. And life just gets better and better and better and better and better. 'Cause I'm doing the same thing I did when I was 15.
- CWChris Williamson
I'm so happy for you, man.
- JBJon Bellion
Thank you. (laughs) Thank you.
- CWChris Williamson
That's so fucking fire.
- JBJon Bellion
It's, and it's hard not to, um, to just say that. And I know that, that might make people reflect on their own thing and not be happy about the statement, but, why am I not touring or why am I not ... I'm not even, I, I swore I wasn't gonna get emotional, but it's like, I just love, I love my life. To, to live ... I love my life. I love it. I love it. It's, it's mind-blowing. I get in a minivan and drive home from a stadium and wake up in clean diapers the next day. I got it all. I got it all. 'Cause my life, I might not have got the diapers, might not have got the sleepless nights, I might not have got the ... It's the shit that the world tells you is not what you chase after is the shit that I almost missed. It's like, there's a renaissance coming of people and it's, uh, the renaissance is reali- realizing that the roof over your head, the plumbing job and the cutting the grass is the good shit. We've taken it to the extreme. Our society's taken it all the ... we got it all. We figured it out. We're the most connected we've ever been. We got the most money we've ever had. We've j- ... I think everyone's thought, myself included. It took me six years to be like, "I almost lost, I almost chased this thing, and then out for six years I was around a bunch of guys who had all the stuff I thought I needed." No. It's the dirt, it's the muck, it's the mistakes, it's the thing, that's, it's the good shit. But we spend so much time making sure no one ever, no one ever sees us in a light that might seem average. Being average is the greatest thing in my life. It's the greatest thing in my life. Sometimes I, I, I go to the shoe store and people know who I am, and then other times I'll go five days without anybody even knowing who the fuck I am. I take my kids to sports class and nobody bothers me. It's like celebrity, it's like (laughs) miss me with that. I've never had a conversation with a, with a, a famous motherfucker. I've never had a con- a, a long two, three, four hour conversation in the studio with a famous motherfucker that's been like, "I love it. It was the best decision I ever made in my life being famous."If God came out the sky and was like, "You can have the money like you're famous, but you don't have to be famous," I'm taking that all day long. Fame makes no sense to me, and I think the c- the general consciousness of the population is waking up to that. Like the idea of celebrities, like, everybody's like side-eyeing these guys like, "You're not perfect." 'Cause I'm not perfect. It's, it's like, what are we doing here? Like, what are we talking about? I don't know how I just went on that tangent, I apologize. I don't-
- CWChris Williamson
That was beautiful.
- JBJon Bellion
I didn't mean to... Yeah. You guys are gonna have to make me look like I'm making sense. (laughs) ............................ Yeah. Yeah. That was the main thing, guys, like even if I can get on this podcast today and just be like, like my coffee in the morning and the grass on my feet and a roof over my head making music, it's like you will never s- you'll never stop me. You'll never stop me. I love what I'm doing so much, you will never... I'll never stop. I'll be 90 years old just doing the same thing every single day 'cause it gets better and better and better. And the relationship changes with it, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- JBJon Bellion
And to be able to get paid like that where I don't have to... I could play one show at Forest Hills and then people show up. (laughs) It's... I think because I walked away and let go of it, when it came back, I was like, "I didn't even know I had this when I had it six years ago." And now coming back to it, it doesn't even define me, but it's just like this funny... Like I'm like the monopoly guy with a mustache. Like it's all fake money.
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- JBJon Bellion
I'm rolling dice, I'm like, "If I lose money on fucking boardwalk, if this, this, this, it..."
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- JBJon Bellion
Like, it's just life is good, man. Life is-
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, man.
- JBJon Bellion
Life is good.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you ever seen Peaky Blinders?
- JBJon Bellion
No.
- CWChris Williamson
Okay. So it's a, a show about a, a gang from Birmingham in the 1920s-ish and in it, uh, it's a group of brothers. They were in First World War, two of the brothers were in the First World War, and uh, they went to the Battle of the Somme and they were tunnel diggers. Uh, real dangerous, high, uh, like mortality rate. And Tommy and Arthur, the two older brothers, they have this line where they say, um, they basically thought that they were going to die at the Battle of the Somme, but they didn't, and they refer to it as, "Everything after that was extra."
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And it feels to me like you died-
- JBJon Bellion
Oh, absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
... during that, that time.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- 48:11 – 1:03:26
Why Your Career Doesn’t Define Who You Are
- CWChris Williamson
no, dude, I, uh, I, I really, really appreciate you saying that. I think sensitivity is your strength with regards to this.
- JBJon Bellion
Oh my gosh.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I did... I've been wearing this... I guess the, the audience might not have noticed, but I've been wearing this little piece of red, uh, for about six weeks now and, uh, it's got the letters ILM on the back and it's got an infinity symbol on there. I went and did a retreat, um, in Sonoma County about six weeks ago, two months ago. It was 12 hours a day from 9:00 AM till 9:00 PM-
- JBJon Bellion
Wow.
- CWChris Williamson
... uh, of very deep emotional work.
- JBJon Bellion
Intensive.
- CWChris Williamson
I- incredibly. Uh, sober, non-psychedelic stuff and, uh, the ILM on this stands for I love myself.
- JBJon Bellion
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And it was the thing that you wanted to take away, uh, but in it, what you were talking about, that I need to send that version of me off to see...
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah. So many of the fears and doubts and patterns, the, the patterns that people have, especially the ones that you don't like, they're there to protect you. They're there to try and keep you safe. Yes. Yes, 'cause they, they- They're there to get you validation from the world and- Even my work. My work when I was 14 years old was every night I was lost in that screen, creating and living in a world that was not reality. It's, it's what, it's what helped me get, grow as a man. It's what helped me stay alive. Like, music is lit- literally something that I held onto, like a life raft. And it was so embedded in my e- But then at what point when you're a grown man you say, "Is this escapism?" Is it easier for me to be listened to in the studio all day long than go home and actually have an interactive marriage where my opinion doesn't actually end all, be all of everything? There's a, it's a very, very, very, very interesting thing. Like you said, saying goodbye to that person is saying like, "I know I was put on this planet and I've been given gifts to make music." I'm, I'm pretty sure of it at this point. But I always have to take inventory on whether it's escapism or not. Sometimes it's healthy to escape. As men, I think there is a, something very valid on a man who goes fishing on a Saturday. There's something very valid about your own time, your solace, your whatever. But you always have to take inventory on, it's like, "Dude, are you fishing on a Saturday or are you not able to stomach the idea of the normalcy of your life?" Which is always, that's another thing I have to take inventory on with my job. (laughs) Balanced being. Yeah, yeah. Totally. You're on th- you're on that balance board, dude. Totally. totally. All the time. I have to always take inventory of saying, "Let me, let me see what this feels like to me." Is this... Oh, a post just went viral about me doing something that makes me look talented. How am I... "Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey." Yeah. "Hey, hey." Calm down, bud. You get, "Hey." And it's a l- (laughs) it's a lot of that. But I've noticed that that's been the biggest blessing in my life. Some people will be like, "Just rip the door open, man." Like, "You just did 26,000 people at Forest Hills." We're going on the road. We're back, Longtoe. Yep. Whoo! Yeah. And when I drove home, my wife was being Michelle Obama all day. She was tired as shit, she was taking care of the kids all day long. There was a playground in the back, so by the time that the show was over my kid, my, my son was like, "Dad, I didn't..." My son was like... The other day he sits me down, "Can I talk to you?" I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "I just, I didn't like your show." I was like- (laughs) By the way, the whole thing sold out, the whole thing, top to bottom. He's like, "Yeah." And he's deadpan. I'm like, "Oh, I thought he was gonna be joking." So like my ego, he's four, my ego is like, "Ugh." Like, everyone told me I killed it, that thing was sold out. I said, "Buddy, why didn't you like the show?" He goes, "You know, you sang the first song and then you just kept singing and singing and singing and I was just like, 'When's he gonna be done singing?'" He's like, "I wanted to go play with you in the playground at the, at the back of this thing." So it like puts the whole... Even that my son trusts me enough to tell me that, I'm like, "Oh my gosh, thank God." Bro. Thank God the, the trip back in the minivan that, 'cause we have too many kids now. We used to have a Navigator and a Ranger Rover and now I'm, I'm ripping the Kia Carnival. Wonderful product by the way. (laughs) I'm driving home in a Kia, she forgot to get gas. I'm in the middle of bumblefuck Brooklyn trying to get gas after... I'm like, "Yo, I'm rich, I don't need this shit." I just sold out. Yeah. But then it like hi- it just was like, no, this is the, this is the good, this is the shit. It's this, I'm annoyed, I'm tired. My wife's over it. Da, da, da, da. But you would look at me at the end of that show that day- Afterparty. ... at the afterparty of everybody coming up to me, "My daughters needs this and my cousin and listened to my demo and you're the man. That was the best show I ever seen." They don't recognize that there's this other thing. I'm just like, "Thank God I didn't spend my whole life pretending that that other thing just never, never existed." Or- 'Cause I'm way more in that other thing than I am in stuff like this. This- Or not, not seeing the value in it. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. It's so scary, dude. And then you build a kingdom that's predicated on the idea that you never have sludge or you never have mundane shit. It's not- Then you're fucking toast. You're, you're trapped. It's, it's not a kingdom, it's a prison. Bruh. The amount of records I've written for people that by the end I've walked away and been like, "I'm all the way good on everything this dude has ever..." By the way, my heart breaks for them. That doesn't mean that, hey, I'm, like I said, I ain't Johnny Noble. I'm not like so much better than them. I th- I get on my knees. I get on my knees in my closet and I say, "Thank you you didn't give me everything I ever wanted." Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. If I got everything I ever wanted at, at 20, I might not be alive. (laughs) And then you, and then you bring it back tenfold for me to look at it like I'm not even, this isn't even, I'm not even in this. Tomorrow I will wake up and I will be with my children and I will be in the studio making something maybe for me or some- for somebody else doing the same shit I did every single day. It's not this... The 4th of July every day ain't the move, man. The 4th of July is great because it happens once a year. If Monday through Monday it's fireworks, alcohol and craziness... But our job, our whole society sees just very much like, if it ain't 4th of July every day, then you are not accomplishing what you are... And then the motherfucker who's gotta sit in traffic on Tuesdays is like, "My life sucks." It's like, dude, no it doesn't. No it doesn't, 'cause we're all living the same, the same fears, the same val- validation, the same way you wanna be looked at when you walk in a room and you wonder what other people think about you. We just spend a lot of time making sure that that's not obvious. But the more time you get away from the machine, you're like, I'm getting, I'm in my chubby phase, I'm a little bit of a dad. Jesus. I'm making music as a dad. Like, thank God. Dad music. (laughs) Like, because that's what the fuck I am. If I spent half my life trying to pretend like I'm not... You get a lot of these artists I work with, I'm like, "Man, you ain't... Why you wanna say that? That's not your reality." Yeah, you've got kids at home but you're still playing the bowler up front. What do the kids think? You know a lot about a man about what his kids think about him.I don't need to know what your fans think about you. I don't even, it, I don't need to know what my fans-
- CWChris Williamson
How present is dad and mom at home?
- JBJon Bellion
How you got ... Y- t- ... Never speak to, to someone who adores somebody from a distance on a, on a character judgment that you can make about them. You will know the fruit if you know the person. That's the only thing you can count on. So for like, you wanna work your whole life for a bunch of people that don't know you to think that you're a good guy? And then when you go home everyone's like, "This guy." That's what-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, you've traded-
- JBJon Bellion
That's what most of the album's about.
- CWChris Williamson
... you've traded the validation of the people who would love you for who you are, for the validation of people who love you for what you do.
- JBJon Bellion
It's like, and then your identity becomes what you do, so if you can't do what you do, your whole life is just shattered.
- CWChris Williamson
It's taken away from you. So now you're locked into the pr- and that's how you get locked into the prison.
- JBJon Bellion
Bro, I've noticed that i- in l- in recently 10 years of some- some kind, it was almost like, like even when I looked at my dad. My dad's job didn't, it w- he wasn't trying to get, like, his whole community from his job, and his whole purpose from his job. It was almost like you made money to then, like, go to church, and like, have another life of ... I don't really know what I'm saying, this is probably not going anywhere, but like, what I'm trying to say is like, the job is just the job, it's, it's not the definition of what you are. And slowly but surely given our, like, whole lives being commercials, w- which is what social media is, you have to turn your job into your ... and I've like lo- like I'm just like, man, it's like, this is just something I get to do. It's not me, it's, it's a, it's a facet within the other things that feed me in my community. Spending time with my wife, going on vacations with my friends, spending time with my family, eating a good meal with somebody. This is the little things, this is-
- CWChris Williamson
Well, imagine if you had a, an investment portfolio-
- JBJon Bellion
(clears throat)
- CWChris Williamson
... and 95% of your investments were in a single stock.
- JBJon Bellion
Insane.
- CWChris Williamson
You would be very, very careful and very, very anxious about the progress of that stock.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
What you have is a distributed portfolio of investments.
- JBJon Bellion
Oh my gosh. Hey man. And it's like, t- I even think sometimes too it's just like, there's probably ... And again, I'm just speaking from, I, I'm here, and it's like someone wants to hear me talk, I guess, so it's like, might as well throw whatever out there. It's like, I've also known to just like living under my means and not living to the thing that I am has made me an, a also wildly happy b- by- beyond most ... Once me and my wife stopped with the house additions, and the hot tub, and the pool, and the yada yada yada ...
- CWChris Williamson
Pivoted to the Kia.
- JBJon Bellion
What'd you say?
- CWChris Williamson
A hard pivot to the Kia.
- JBJon Bellion
Bro, I'm in the Kia and they got these little nature sounds that you can put on in the car and shit. I'm like, "I like this just as much as my $175,000 Tesla that I got neck pain from ripping on the highway on." I'm like, "Oh thank god I got the Kia." So then it really started opening up in my life to be like, "What if I just lived completely under my means? I'm rich forever." If I live like a motherfucker who makes the type of money that I make, I'm gonna have. To be on the wheel forever to keep that moving. But if I just make the house smaller and accomplish huge things, and just don't make a big deal out of the accomplishments and just keep it kind of low-key, and then just tuck it away somewhere that if anybody ever needs it it's there, but I'm here-
- 1:03:26 – 1:08:39
How To Become A World-Class Producer
- JBJon Bellion
Um.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah. Well, just to, on that, you have done it a few times today.
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
And I think it speaks to the fact that you don't want to come across as preachy, and-
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... the fact that you're saying, "Hey, look, I'm an idiot too." But the disclaimer, the reason the... I have compulsion to do that as well.
- JBJon Bellion
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Part of it's a protection mechanism because you don't want to be called out by somebody for saying, "This guy doesn't know what he's talking about."
- JBJon Bellion
Talking about, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
"And he's still, he's still proselytizing."
- JBJon Bellion
Totally.
- CWChris Williamson
That being said, not saying a thing that you believe because you're worried about the criticism of people who are going to hear it and misunderstand it-
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
You really should not be worried about the criticisms of people who don't understand what you're trying to do.
- JBJon Bellion
Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
If people misunderstand you, that's a damn problem, not a you problem and it's, like, something to try and overcome that is really tough. That being said, in the music studio, we spent the first half of this conversation talking about taste and about how, like, I just know that it's good, but you're in an alien environment here.
- JBJon Bellion
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And you're thinking, "Well, I, I know that this is good."
- JBJon Bellion
Yep.
- CWChris Williamson
"But I'm not sure whether or not I'm allowed to think it's good."
- JBJon Bellion
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
So this is you at the beginning of the music career-
- JBJon Bellion
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... going like, "Well, if I can prescribe and I'll hedge and caveat and I'll litigate my way through this thing."
- JBJon Bellion
(laughs) Absolutely. Absolutely.
- CWChris Williamson
And, so, it's just a new, and if you put me in-
- JBJon Bellion
So true.
- CWChris Williamson
If you put me in the music studio, be like, " ͜f I could just, maybe we need to, can we, like, roll that off on the kick drum a little bit?"
- JBJon Bellion
I'm not saying I'm a guitar player-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- 1:08:39 – 1:16:55
Why The Most Talented People Don’t Make the Best Music
- CWChris Williamson
We spoke before about the most talented people don't necessarily cut the best songs.
- JBJon Bellion
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
How is it not the case that the person who has the most talent doesn't make the best music? What is it that's getting in the way?
Episode duration: 2:45:37
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