EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,079 words- 0:00 – 6:56
Where Would Sam Be Without Bodybuilding?
- CWChris Williamson
If you weren't doing bodybuilding, what do you think you'd be obsessing over instead?
- SSSam Sulek
I think I- I mean, it would have to be something. But honestly, my, uh... I was kind of lucky starting off body... Uh, I, I wouldn't even say bodybuilding. Y- the only, uh... And this is something people say anyway, "If you don't compete, you're not a bodybuilder." Like, it's a little... Because when someone does their first show, you know, they kind of want to express this, like, you know, glamour about it.
- CWChris Williamson
Elitist.
- SSSam Sulek
It's like, "I'm a bodybuilder because I competed." You just... But I, I kind of leaned into that. So before I actually competed, I was, uh... I'd always described myself as like just, I'd say, a lifter 'cause I... It's... The point wasn't more so to compete in bodybuilding. Like, when I'm working out arms, so I'm not thinking like, "Okay, I need my arms to be a little bit bigger so that I can beat this guy on stage." I guess, more so, I want them to be bigger for me, and then that kind of played into once I w- was at a certain level, like, "Okay, now is about time to compete." Like, it was always on the list, but it wasn't, like, the point.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
Especially not in the beginning.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
For me, I'm like, "I just want to get big." I, uh, I did gymnastics when I was, like, 11 to 16. I think I was good, but I wasn't, like, gonna be college level scholarship. I l-... Like, no Olympic... But I... Like, it was fun. And there was one guy named Connor who was... He's the older dude, and now I might not look at him the same way, but at the time, he was nuts. He was huge.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
So we all... Whenever we'd do, like, strength or conditioning, that's how... I think that was probably some of the seed that got planted, because I was doing, like, four hours a day, like middle school, early high school.
- CWChris Williamson
So you already had one obsession.
- SSSam Sulek
So I... That was, like, it. Like, every... It wasn't... And I never had to be dragged to do it because, like, I was excited. It was fun. So once I quit doing that, to switch it with the bodybuilding just happened to be something I was already kind of interested in, and it just fit perfectly.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
Like, we would talk every summer where some of the guys would be like, "Okay, this summer, we're actually going to work out," and we never did it. But once I actually quit doing it, that's what I replaced it with. But if it wasn't bodybuilding, let's say there was a alternate universe Sam where I've got the itch where it's like, "Oh, it'd be awesome if I could play guitar like Rob Scallon." He's a, he's a, he's this YouTuber who's, you know, into guitars and everything. Or just anything. Like, that could have been it, but it happened to be like, "Okay, I'm gonna get into working out really serious."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And that also just happened to be the perfect match for me.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you held onto the bendiness from gymnastics at all?
- SSSam Sulek
A little. I can l-... Like, when I stretch, I can loosen up, but when I'm off season, full of carbs, like, it actually kind of sucks to squat because I get s-... Like-
- CWChris Williamson
How tight everything is.
- SSSam Sulek
Everything is tighter.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
When I'm dieted down, I can get my hands under a squat bar fine.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
But when I'm eating a lot of food, like, uh, when I'm more like a 270, like, I'm sitting there for five minutes just trying to stretch out.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, Mike Israetel had a, uh, some back surgery thing-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... on him and i- it's cut open. They've removed fat, they've got rid of fat cells, they've stitched him back up. It's like a big traumatic surgery.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, I asked him what the most painful thing that he went through was, and it was that (laughs) he, he said they'd laid him on his back with his arms like this.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah. (laughs)
- 6:56 – 17:56
Where Sam Finds His Inspiration
- CWChris Williamson
was inspiration for you coming up? Both content creation side, but also-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... mindset, physique-wise?
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, and, uh, so I, I really watched a lot of Calum van Moger, like back when I was, you know, or a 16-year-old. 'Cause the guy who got me into the gym, like, I mean, I was getting into it anyway, but he was the guy from my high school who actually body built. He competed, like, at- at the end of, when he was a senior and I was a junior, like we were both, like, the bodybuilders of the school, you know, like at high school level. But he got me into Calum, and then eventually I started watching all the Rich Piana Bigger By The Day videos, which then you can kind of see the similarity where it's, okay, he's posting a video every day.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
He's in the car.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
He's doing a real workout. And, like, I, I only thought about it, like, I like that format. I go to the gym, and I work out, and I drive back to record that. It's like nothing, like it's, it's very seamless for my routine. But it, uh, it was also just something, like, nobody was doing. Like I was, when I was coming up, before posting anything, I'm looking at regular influencers. I'm like, "Oh, you guys wouldn't even work out if you didn't have a camera." And I'm squatting in, like, a dead gym. It's like 2:00 in the morning. No one's wa-, like, I, I recorded the set for me. Nobody else watched it happen, and that, so that was like a chip on my shoulder thing of, like, it doesn't even matter there's no one in here. I'm still getting after it, 'cause I want it, and there's nothing that's gonna change that. So when I started, like, actually posting things, once I saw a group of brothers who went to my school really blow up one summer, and I'm, like, I was getting kind of, like, jealous. I'm like, "Okay, now I gotta start doing it." I was gonna do it eventually, but that was, like, the starter.
- CWChris Williamson
Catalyst.
- SSSam Sulek
I was, like, I've always kind of hemmed about this where it's like, am I a different guy now that I'm recording all these things and trying to, like talking about it and putting it out there? And, like, I- I- I would just always think about that in, like the back of my mind, 'cause now these workouts are not just me alone. Now there's an observer. So it's like, is the experiment altered because now people are watching it? And I don't think it is. Like, after all this time, I think I'm still... If anything, it's a little bit of an accountability factor, 'cause if I didn't think, you know, maybe I wasn't totally into it, I know somebody's watching, so I might go a little extra hard. So I think it hasn't taken away too much.
- CWChris Williamson
But maybe added a little bit.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, but, but if you get distracted by it, it's like the, the, the workout should come before the recording of the workout, I've always thought.
- CWChris Williamson
Have you found it hard to hold onto authenticity now that millions of people are watching?
- SSSam Sulek
Well, now it, it'd be... If I made a video that was inauthentic, it'd be strange. Like I'll, uh, 'cause I'll record, 'cause, and now I'm kind of getting around doing all these events. I get to talk to everybody, and sometimes it's hard to actually separate someone's social media persona versus their real, like, human personality, because sometimes we look at a video as like you're kind of hosting a show, and a TV host does not talk offset the same way he talks-
- CWChris Williamson
Hey guys, welcome back to the-
- SSSam Sulek
... on set. Like, it was like, "All right, we're gonna hit a chest day today," and I'm doing, like, a YouTube intro, and there's, like, sounds. Like, like that's just not what I do, and I- I, for me, I think that'd be silly anyway. So it's, um, I think it's, for me, kind of a cool mentality where I'm not exactly even thinking like, "Okay, I want to improve my content engagement." I'm trying to improve my reach or, like any- anything like that, 'cause I almost boil it all, 'cause it's so one-dimensional. Like it, it branches out, I talk about everything, but it's, like, I want it to be about the gym specifically. So for me it's like this kind of branching off point of motivation, where, in my mind I feel the better that all my workouts are, not only is that better for me 'cause I want them to be good, but it will just bleed and, like bleed out and raise everything else up.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
Because it's all stemming from the working out anyway.
- CWChris Williamson
There's four-hour compilations of your car talks to go to sleep to.
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Did you anticipate that you'd become an ASMR channel eventually?
- SSSam Sulek
I had, but I, uh, I actually heard that before. Uh, never in high school, but when I was in college, my, it was like my second year, I gave a couple presentations. Like one time I, one of my curricular or extracurricular credits was Mafia cinema history, so it was following-
- CWChris Williamson
That's niche, but yeah.
- SSSam Sulek
... yeah, it was following, like from the first, um, what, what would you call a soundless movie?
- CWChris Williamson
Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- SSSam Sulek
Where in between frames of like actual video, they just had black, a black screen-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
... with the words that got said. Like it started from there, and then-
- CWChris Williamson
What a funny, what a funny way to, to put a movie together.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, but it's like, that's all you had.
- 17:56 – 27:39
How Sam Deals with Online Criticism
- SSSam Sulek
- CWChris Williamson
What have you learned about dealing with criticism and, and self-worth and stuff like that? Because if the plan was, hey, it'd be cool if some people watched this-
- SSSam Sulek
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and then there's an awful lot of scrutiny, and you're young and are approaching this from a little bit of a different angle-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... it's gonna invite in-... criticism.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
How, how have you learned to deal with that?
- SSSam Sulek
Uh, 'cause, uh, it's not like I totally did not even think about it in the beginning. 'Cause when you first start getting, like, let's say you're posting something, you get, like, a few thousand followers. It's, um, you know... It, it takes a second, but if you look back on it, it's really a milestone that your videos are being shown to more people. 'Cause if the same 10 people love every video in the comments, that means your stuff's only getting shown to them. It's not getting shown to anyone else. So once people start giving you, uh, like, j- you know, just saying regular just hate, that means that they're someone who got shown your stuff for the first time. So it actually means your things are moving out of, like, a small, little scale bubble and scaling. But it's... I don't know. For someone who is struggling with it, I'd say, like, "Remember, this guy just scrolled away." He did not e- he doesn't even remember saying it. It's, it's just a weird thing where, you know, your phone is a totally different communicative device than real life. So, maybe judge what people s- actually say to you in person, and just... I don't know. For some people, it's much harder to get over, I'm sure.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a good point that that comment someone just made is flippant.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's passive.
- SSSam Sulek
It's-
- CWChris Williamson
Whereas for you, that might linger. I mean, I, I know, for me, you know, over the thousand episodes I've done this show-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... there's certainly some comments where I've gone to bed at night and I'm like, "Fuck's sake."
- SSSam Sulek
Think about it.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, that's the, that's the thing that you're gonna think about as your head hits the pillow.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But you just remember the insults and forget the compliments.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
That's kind of the way that the world works.
- SSSam Sulek
And it's, uh... And e- even just try to... Like, this is one thing I really like, is trying to imagine anything where it's not a debate, but just, like, two sides of an approach. Like, okay, do I want to read every hate comment and take it personally, and, like, really only look at those? Or do I wanna, like, look at the system as it really is? There's, like, always way more real comments. So why does the, why does the negative one get so much impact, and 10 other... Like, how many good comments even outweigh one bad one?
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And if that one actually, like, hit you in a weak spot, there could be no number.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And that could just be it.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah.
- SSSam Sulek
So I think that's where it's, um, it's almost... Like, it, it shouldn't be, but it is. Like, it sh- it shouldn't happen, people shouldn't be mean, but they are gonna be, that's just how it is. So that's where it's actually your responsibility to try to be impervious to it.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- 27:39 – 33:06
How to Be Comfortable Living a Simple Life
- SSSam Sulek
- CWChris Williamson
So, uh, you mentioned there about training at the gym, 2:00 in the morning, kind of getting it done, this is me on my own. How difficult has it been to maintain a simple lifestyle now? 'Cause I, I can't imagine that training in the gyms near you is quite as peaceful as it used to be.
- SSSam Sulek
Uh, maybe a little, but it's, actually, it's the best there out of anywhere. Apart from, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
Because people have seen you a million times.
- SSSam Sulek
... I've been at this gym since I started working out. So I see all the, all those same people work there.
- CWChris Williamson
No one's amazed, "Oh, it's Sam again."
- SSSam Sulek
All those... If anything, they're probably like, "Oh, he's on my machine." Like, "Oh my God, Sam's on the Smith. I wanted to..." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"He's gonna be there for 30 minutes, motherfucker."
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah. 'Cause it's, uh, and it's, and it's just, like, an exposure thing, you know, like, just from being there so much. But when I, uh, when I get to visit places, that's where it's a little crazier. Or, um, like, even, it's kind of a classic trope of, "Oh, like, my Instagram just blew up. I'm going to LA. I'm out of here." And it's, uh, uh, y- you're kind of boxing yourself in, 'cause now you're doing what everyone else does. For me, I've been like, the gym is gonna have the same weights anywhere. The whole point of social media is you can do it from anywhere. I, I don't need to uproot my whole life and everyone that I know just because that's what other people do. So it's, um... At home, it's, like, very normal.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- SSSam Sulek
But it's, uh, it's definitely different. But even, as different as it is, um, like, I- I got this a lot is, like, "How crazy is this?" And, like, objectively, it's totally crazy. Like, I can still see that from before to now. But you do get a little bit exposed to it just from... It never just happened.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- SSSam Sulek
Like, first it was like one guy at a Kroger-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SSSam Sulek
... s- said, "Whoa, d- dude, I saw you on my phone earlier." And it was a video that had, like, 2,000 views. Like, it just happened to be because he was al-... That was the start. And then, like, the next week, there was another guy. And then it, like, all very, like, 0.1% increases over time. So there was no moment where the frog jumped out of the boiling water, 'cause it just raised temperature super slowly.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- SSSam Sulek
But it's, it's definitely crazy how big it's all kind of scaled. But at home, it's, it's pretty normal.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you not get distracted as more options come onto the table?
- SSSam Sulek
I think, uh, I've still got a little bit of that kind of, I don't want to say hater preconception-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SSSam Sulek
... but almost, like, hardheadedness of like, "I know what I'm doing. I know what I want to do. I know who I wouldn't want to, like, get involved with." 'Cause it, it's not like everyone on social media is always the nicest person ever. Like, the, it's, it's like anything. So I can see guys where I would say, "I like this guy. This guy's cool. We have talked before. Let's do something." Uh, but even the, and I always think about this at the expos, like, to see an expo-Everyone just left the s- Lift London, and they are getting after it. This year is their year. I saw, I saw Sawyer Clout, I saw David Lade, Phil Heath was there. This is gonna be sweet. In a week, that, that motivation is gonna, it's gonna dwindle, because this is, uh, this is, like, the just for show part. And in the moment, it's super flashy? But, you know, e- even the workouts I got to do with some of the Gymshark guys like Jack Hales and Marcus and, like, and it was really fun 'cause I get to lift with guys who are s- kind of higher level advanced, like, Jack Hales is a total beast. But that's, you know, countered by the three months of workouts I just did on my own.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
Which were only for the purpose of, like, progress, so it's, um, it's like there's a ratio of, like, fun to work, where, like, you know, how many... There would be a million hours of, I al- I always reference the basketball players 'cause they're such a good example of a lot of practice before performance, and it's like, how long would you sit and watch, like, a Kobe Bryant shoot, uh, free throws? Like, how long would you watch LeBron do dribbling drills? Y- you wouldn't. But that's the kind of, um... I see a lot of quotes where it's like, "Those are the gloryless, gloryless battles which, when won, add up to a seamless victory." But it's, it's like you can't forget that all happened before, but it's easy to when all you see is that end result, like when we're all in matching track suits, we're a freaking Gymshark team.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
Like, don't forget, everybody is now going back to where they belong, not belong but back to where they're from-
- CWChris Williamson
To do the boring stuff.
- SSSam Sulek
... and they're all gonna get back to, back to work.
- CWChris Williamson
I-
- SSSam Sulek
They're all going back to normal.
- CWChris Williamson
Dude, it's the same with the show. It's... (laughs) This is fun and it's cool, but s-
- 33:06 – 43:55
Why It’s Important to Stay Hungry for Success
- CWChris Williamson
there's a, a s- cool story from Atomic Habits by James Clear-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... and, uh, I think it was the lead coach of maybe the Chinese weightlifting team, or maybe this is Ben Bergeron's Chasing Excellence, it's one of the two.
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And they spoke to, uh, the lead coach's Chinese weightlifting team, and they said, "What's the difference between the guys who are elite and the guys that are world champions?" And he said, "It's the world champions that are prepared to do the most boring work with the least amount of complaining."
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And, uh, I just really like that idea because especially as things become more successful, and this is like a really unpopular talking point on the internet because everybody wants to hear the zero to one, not the 50 to 55 or s- m- 80 to 85 or 95 to 96-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... they don't want to hear about the top end stuff because it doesn't sound, it sounds more exclusionary, right? Because by definition most people are on the come up as opposed to closer to the top. But I think it's important to give people an idea of what are the pitfalls that are coming up for you. If you do what you say that you want to achieve, which is become better in whatever it is that you want, even becoming better as a, a parent, becoming better-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... as a dog owner, becoming better as a friend or whatever-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... as you become more advanced, there will be fewer and fewer people that can give you advice about what you're gonna come up against. Anyway, point is, people that are prepared to show up and do boring things as their situation becomes more luxurious, uh, uh, uh, feels sort of opulent... You know, if you're a world champion Chinese weightlifter, I imagine you've probably got your meals cooked for you, you'll have body work, you'll have a coach, you'll have a mindset person, you'll have friends, you'll be living in a house that's probably quite nicely put together, a, a, a bed that's constructed for your particular physiology-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... firmness, all that sort of stuff. And you think, "How do you remain hungry to go in and do an hour of mobility work four times a week when you have your meals cooked for you and you've got a custom-built pillow and stuff?"
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And that, uh, preparedness to accept, "No matter how good I get at this thing, I will always have to do boring shit."
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
And that's not a bug, it's a feature, and not only is it a feature, it's a source of competitive advantage because as things get more salubrious as you, as you raise up through the ranks, other people will have the same thought that you do, which is, "I shouldn't need to do this shit anymore." You go, "Okay." So if you can continue to lean into the stuff that you did at the start, at the end, that's where the competitive advantage lies, I think.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah. I was, uh, I was just doing the math to make sure I knew what it all added up to, but not even including... 'Cause before the bodybuilding shows I just did, like, I w- I was dieting for, like, five months, but just counting the year from January until that first sh- show, the, a three month period, there was five days straight of cardio. There was 100-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SSSam Sulek
It was 120 hours 'cause it was, um, it was 30 minutes in the morning and then 30 minutes after the workout for two of those months, and then for one of those months was an hour in the morning and an hour after. So fi- like, who would even be able to watch five hours of something like that, let alone, or five days of something like that-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah.
- SSSam Sulek
... let alone do it?... and that's the stuff I don't show off, 'cause it, I mean, for one, nobody would even care to watch it. But it's, um, it's like a, it's like a hidden quest in a video game, where it's actually the most valuable thing, or like, it's straight out of Indiana Jones when he's gotta pick, uh, the premise is he's in this kinda magical cave, if you haven't seen it, and there's a million goal, or like there's 100 gold chalices.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- SSSam Sulek
And they're all super flashy, and if you pick the correct one, you get in eternal life or something, whatever. So there's two guys that show up. There was Indiana Jones and then another, like, villain guy, and he picks the flashiest, most diamond-encrusted one he could get his hands on, like what he thinks would be the trick, drinks from it, and is instantly dead or something like that. It's been a while. And then Indiana Jones picks the scrappy wooden one, and that was the secret, the one that was understated.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And it's, um, so that gets me motivated to do that kind of stuff and track all my cardio and calories and everything, because I know its value because I've done it and gotten the value from it. So I know that it actually, like, is the trick, but if you, if you've never done it, you don't have that proof, and it's, it's always a what if, and that's everything. Like that's, honestly, that's the, um, at least state-side, that's, you're kind of programmed to do that, middle school, high school, okay, you have to go to college to get this job to do this. Like the idea of doing, getting into like a trade or getting into like, "Oh, I think I have this awesome business idea," that is the minority by far to branch off from this conditioned path. And it's not like it's bad, but s- so many people might have been able to do so many awesome things if they could really do what they wanted to do instead of just, you know, following the beaten path.
- CWChris Williamson
Bro, if you're succeeding at a life that you hate, imagine how great you'd be at one that you actually enjoyed.
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- 43:55 – 1:00:23
Sam’s Opinion on the Rise of Male Body Dysmorphia
- CWChris Williamson
When it comes to prep first bodybuilding show this year-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within a couple of decades.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
What's your relationship with the mirror like?
- SSSam Sulek
I was definitely feeling it a little, because you are... It's one day where you just really depleted all your water. Like, you will never look like that on a regular day-to-day basis. And also, I mean, it's also kind of an interesting look. Like, do you really want to look like a stage bodybuilder all the time? Like, I get, so I get the allure there for the day, but afterward, like, actually eating more food and kind of getting a little bit softer just from, because that's the nature of it, that was actually when I did feel it a little because I was just looking at the absolute craziest version of myself ever, and now I'm not that. But it's kind of a, it's, it's more of a mental thing where what do you imagine yourself as? When you think of Chris Williamson, are you thinking awesome lighting, huge, jacked, ripped-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- SSSam Sulek
... pumped up?
- CWChris Williamson
Yes. Keep going.
- SSSam Sulek
I'm thinking-
- CWChris Williamson
I am.
- SSSam Sulek
... or at least I try to, like, imagine myself more so as, like, just, like, how I look in the day. Like, the, the more the, or the larger I've gotten just in, like, the, the pursuit of size, the more comfortable I've gotten with, like, just the fact that I'm as big as I am where I don't, I don't feel the need to, like, only post my biggest picture-
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
... and, like, even go so far as to, like, Photoshop it or, like, that's just, that sucks. Not only is that, like, you're just lying by doing that, which for the people you're showing is, that's, that's stupid, that's rough. But you're lying to yourself because you're definitely looking at that picture and thinking, "Yeah, that's how I look."
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And that's not how you look. When I'm, when I'm pumped up in the gym, that is its own circumstance, which is cool in its own way, and then I can go back to what I normally look like. And for me, I've been so, like, real progress driven with the gym where I'm not so concerned with, "How do I look today for everyone who's gonna see me?"
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And those guys are the guys who stay lean all year round, always posting Instagram-
- CWChris Williamson
Because they're scared of getting too fluffy to make the longer term progress.
- SSSam Sulek
Well, maybe not s- scared in every case, because if that's the look that you really want, then you're good.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
That's sweet. Like, you, you actually kind of did it. But if you're someone where you actually are scared of that, then that's the motivation. It's just fear of, you know, looking a little softer or anything. And I mean, we're not helping. You know, guys who post a really crazy picture aren't exactly helping the situation-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
... because they're showing a totally crazy version, but it's, that's where, I mean, it's just how it is. So it's kind of your responsibility to try to grasp it more objectively. Like, these guys look like this because of everything that they're doing.
- CWChris Williamson
Hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
You can't forget that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. Do you see this with the fans that you interact with? Uh, you know, you've got young followers. What's your demographic? What's the-
- SSSam Sulek
It's wide.
- CWChris Williamson
Right.
- SSSam Sulek
It's, it's, um, it's probably evenly dispersed between 18 and below, 18 to, like, 30, and then 30 and above.
- 1:00:23 – 1:11:20
How Sam’s Perspective on Bodybuilding Changes
- CWChris Williamson
Body building's already a rough sport physically, psychologically, hormonally. How much are you thinking about longevity at the moment and-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, so-
- CWChris Williamson
... the trade-offs?
- SSSam Sulek
... that's one thing I, uh, I'll bring up, 'cause it's like guys will ask me, it's like, "Are you gonna move to open? Are you gonna ..." Or it's, "Can't wait to see you as Mr. Olympia." Like, as though it's, uh, it's ... that's the track.... that I'm on. And for me, it's more so it's like, okay, what am I willing to do that adds to this whole thing with bodybuilding that will take me, you know, a certain degree of distance, right? Because if you're a top level Olympia competitor, that comes with its own things, you know. Like, it's not as though bodybuilding on a competitive level is ... And, you know, I might not be the one to say recommend, 'cause I'm not like a complete, uh, G of bodybuilding, like a Jay Cutler or like a real commentator or a judge would be who's been in this sport for years. But it's like, it's not something to be pursued forever. Like, actually, the bigger I've gotten, the more I've started to be content with the size that I already am, where I used to imagine 300 pound Sam Sulek. I'm like, "Yeah, once I get to 300, that'll start to be..." But it's, uh, it's something where when you actually get to a different position, just over time and like through progress, you're gonna have a different perception of like what you actually want. Because even though you may have reached that level from having a certain goal, now you're a completely different person with different circumstances, and as good as that goal may have been to motivate you in the beginning-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
... like sometimes that can change.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, I do that switching.
- SSSam Sulek
And it's not a giving up, it's just you've gotten a better perspective and now you know more to make a better decision.
- CWChris Williamson
That's a really fantastic point, that adjusting your goals as you get closer to them, to some people feels like, uh, ceding ground. Um, you've already done the hard part, why are you not applying more pressure and, and, and really, really pushing?
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
But the same as what you considered to be a good dish when you were starting out as a chef-
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
... will not be what you consider to be a good dish as you become more sophisticated.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And that dish may be more simple. So you may start out making these really complex things with 500 ingredients-
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... and you think, well, actually, you know, just a good pasta, like I can just nail a good pasta, and I think that that's pretty sweet.
- SSSam Sulek
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So, yeah, the ability to discern good from bad, like taste, like what's something that's a tasteful goal for me to go towards, what's something that resonates? How do I realize as I get closer to something that maybe the ladder I was climbing was kind of leaning up against the wrong wall a little bit, so I'm just gonna adjust it and I'm gonna keep climbing over here?
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And it's, uh ... With, with bodybuilding, at least, there's a few examples. I mean, actually, I'm sure there's thousands where it's just, it's not highlighted on social media, so I wouldn't have any input on when this might happen. But with bodybuilding, it's, uh, it, it's not something I'd recommend for everyone. Like when I see the ... Like I, I don't ... I should say it's prevalence now, like the idea of I need to be a bodybuilder or like a younger guy saying, "I have to be able to get on stage at a certain point," I, uh, I think it's a, a bit overinflated in its value, because it's very showy. You only see that like little flashy kinda point at the end, and it's also in a scope of social media where like e- e- ... As much as I'm f- not trying to overdo it and make myself like look cooler or better or like portray a crazy lifestyle that I might not actually live, like it's still kind of flashy in its presentation. So if you get obsessed with like the idea of something, to actually approach what that real thing is, now your idea of it is actually gonna become a real understanding of it, and you'll realize like, "Shit, man, I went ..." I ... Like, there's guys where they've gone pro, like they really got into it, they were 100% serious, and then they realize, "This isn't for me." Mm-hmm. I'm gonna t- I'm gonna not ... Like backpedal isn't the right word.
- CWChris Williamson
Adjust.
- SSSam Sulek
I'm gonna just redirect towards something which I actually value now.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And if at any point that would happen, then that's what I would do.
- CWChris Williamson
How do you now personally weigh health versus aesthetics? You've got this-
- SSSam Sulek
Well, I mean, everybody, uh ... There's actual, like numerical metrics, you know, everyone's getting their ... Like e- honestly, I think everybody should be getting their blood tested, even just out of curiosity.
- CWChris Williamson
That's something you're doing regularly?
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, ev- Nah. Yeah. So that's, that's definitely ... Like anybody who's serious about bodybuilding, they're all getting relatively extensive blood tests pretty regularly.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And if they're not, then like, you are missing out.
- 1:11:20 – 1:26:56
How Sam Stays Driven and Disciplined
- CWChris Williamson
How do you think about discipline? I'm interested in where you go for drive when motivation's low.
- SSSam Sulek
Yeah, I think ... 'Cause I don't usually think to my, I never have self-talk in my mind where I say like, "I need to be more disciplined right now." Beca- and it's, and maybe just because of what motivated me to get into it in the beginning, like I just never, like that was never my mantra of a word. And with anything working out related, I, um, I guess I almost feel like I'm on a s- ... Like sometimes I feel a little, um, hypocritical when I'll say, like typically good motivational, like, "Okay, even if you feel like you're not gonna get after it, like you just gotta, like know that you're gonna regret it if you don't." Things along those lines. But for the most part, like I kinda treat it as this, like this is gonna happen. Like there is no ... Like the idea of, "Okay, I need to take a break t- or I need to take a rest day today," I'm getting better at it 'cause it is objectively necessary at times.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm. I'm getting better at taking a rest day.
- SSSam Sulek
I think they're unnecessarily taken a lot, which makes me, like a little more tentative, because it's like I know people are skipping just 'cause they didn't wanna do it. And it's the same thing, uh, as the logic of the guy who actually did an objectively correct thing. I'm a little fatigued, I can feel it. The muscle that I was gonna hit today is even a little sore, and I didn't really get a l- a lotta food or water today.... a rest, if I stay home and really refuel and get a good night's rest and do this workout tomorrow, it will objectively be better for my long-term progress.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And someone could pretend they're using that logic and justify, "Eh, I don't want to go today." Rest days are actually good. You know, you, rest days are good, and then they take two weeks off. That's the other extreme. I think of a, on the scale of no rest days ever to two weeks at a time on the regular, this isn't a middle ground that's like right here. It's much more on this side of things.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- SSSam Sulek
And it's, uh, I think you're a different guy if you go even when you don't want to, or e- when you subjectively have extra difficulties, because now you're the guy who did it even when it was hard. And it's like, you know, nobody knows that you did it. Even, uh, when I was dieting for a few of the workouts towards the end, like I was l- super low energy. Like, I'm like, I'm doing three sets of pull-downs and I don't feel warm at all until like the fourth one. And I'm, I'm recording it, and for me, it's like there's different levels of actualized thought, or like if you think something, you know, and you constantly think the same thing-
Episode duration: 2:10:19
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