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The Life Of A Global Boxing Promoter - Kalle Sauerland | Modern Wisdom Podcast 296

Kalle Sauerland is one of the most successful promoters in world boxing, Co-Founder of Sauerland Events and Co-Founder of the World Boxing Super Series. Boxing is a legendary sport which captures global attention, but the entire industry is held together by the promoters who make the matches and create the events we love to watch, how does it all work? Expect to learn Kalle's thoughts on Jake & Logan Paul's YouTube boxing careers, his wildest stories from press conferences, how terrifying Derek Chisora really is, when he's been most nervous before an event, what he thinks about Dana White and much more... Sponsors: Get 19% discount, 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D and Free Shipping from Athletic Greens at https://athleticgreens.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Extra Stuff: Follow Kalle on Twitter - https://twitter.com/SauerlandBros Follow Kalle on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/sauerlandbros Check out the WBSS - https://worldboxingsuperseries.com/ Get my free Ultimate Life Hacks List to 10x your daily productivity → https://chriswillx.com/lifehacks/ To support me on Patreon (thank you): https://www.patreon.com/modernwisdom #boxing #kallesauerland #fighting - Listen to all episodes online. Search "Modern Wisdom" on any Podcast App or click here: iTunes: https://apple.co/2MNqIgw Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2LSimPn Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/modern-wisdom - Get in touch in the comments below or head to... Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx Email: modernwisdompodcast@gmail.com

Kalle SauerlandguestChris Williamsonhost
Mar 18, 20211h 14mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 3:33

    Intro

    1. KS

      And then, boom, boom, boom, "I'm the baddest man on the planet," and he's ripped the table up. It's Del, me, Eddie Hearn, Adam Smith from Sky, uh, Gillian Whyte, Mark Tibbs, that was the top table, and he's lifted... He hasn't thrown, like, something at him. He's picked the whole press conference table up and launched it across, (laughs) across the <|agent|><|en|> (wind whooshing) For the people that aren't already familiar with you and what you do, can you give us a rundown of your history?

    2. Well, I'm, I'm first and foremost a boxing promoter. Um, born into a crazy boxing family. Um, people say, "How long you been in boxing?" And I say, "Well, I'm 43 years old now, and I believe that my first babysitter when I was two, um, was a, was a, was actually a world champion at the time." Um, so I, I had babysitters as boxers. As a teenager, I worked in gyms in the summer or when I bunked off school. My, um, my adopted godfather, uh, was the late and great Denny Mancini who ran Lonsdale, started Lonsdale at a little shop down... Before Lonsdale became big, at a little shop down, um, near Carnaby Street, Beak Street in, uh, Soho in London. And, um, used to skive off school, just hang around the little shop, you know, and watch the, uh, watch the characters come in and out of the shop. You know, it was everything from, from your East End gangsters to your world champions to your, to your bin men who box at the weekend and were picking up some reps. So, you know, it's, uh, it's a... You know, boxing is often seen as a very glamorous sport, a very murky sport, a very colorful sport and, you know, there's, you know, it... I've got to say, in my two and a half decades in the sport of actually working in it, and especially my early days, I worked a lot in football as well, um, it's just the characters that make it, you know? It's just the characters. We are, on paper, we're an unregulated sport. You know, anyone can become a boxing promoter tomorrow. You gotta, you know, be in the, in Britain, you've got to get your British Board of Boxing control license, but the questions aren't the toughest to answer. Um, actually I, I don't even have a license. My brother's a licensed promoter. So, um, I've only done the test, so I don't, I don't know how easy the questions are. Maybe I'll fail. But, um, no, we've certainly... We've, you know, we've, we've, I've promoted all over the world from last year in Japan. Um, actually, no. Uh, God, I'm getting knocked out with all this lockdown stuff. It wasn't even last year, it was the end of the year, but just before pandemic hit.

    3. It feels like last year.

    4. In Japan.

    5. 2020 is a write-off.

    6. You know. Yeah. We did 22,000 people in Tokyo, 18 million viewers in front of the television. Um, we've done Moscow. Uh, we've been to, you know, all over the world. We prom- I think we promoted in more countries than any other promoter on the planet. And, you know, it's, it's been a, it's, it's, it's a rollercoaster ride and it's, it's great fun. You know, it's, it's great fun. Different to other promoters, we, we've never specialized in, or I've never specialized in one market. I've bleeped in promoting all over the world. And, um, and it's, it's, it's great, great to s- You tr- When you travel with boxing, you see the different cultures around it, you know, in the different places you visit. But, you know, the, it's, it's, um, it's a world that has many stories and many stories we can touch on when, when, when we, when we have this hour.

  2. 3:33 – 6:25

    What makes a good promoter

    1. KS

    2. What makes a good boxing promoter? If you're going to design one in a lab, what are the sort of personality traits and the characteristics that you give them?

    3. Well, the first thing is you have to be totally and utterly mad (laughs) . That's the first part. You have to be prepared to devote your life, and when I say your life, I've, I've had situations where I've flown to wonderful parts of the planet, planned a wonderful week in the sunshine, a little, you know, little, one of those ocean villas, you know, set it all up, nice week. The second I've stepped in, after a 16-hour flight, I've had a call off my lawyer and said, "It's all going off in America." Different time zones. I, I... So you can, you never know when it's going to hit you. You're, you're basically a firefighter. So these great shows, these big shows you see, there's such a timeline, and I can't think of any big show that there's not, you know, there's not murders around it. And I don't mean murders in the obvious sense, I mean murders in terms of work and, and the, you know, the arguments you have with... You know, sometimes these fighters who've signed for something up, you know, for certain amount of money, then they argue about the money afterwards, or it's the other promoter who's taking a liberty, or it's the trainer who wants to change the date because, you know, trainers are trainers, they wanna, they're only interested in the sporting side of it. But ultimately, you're putting on a, a massive event that is seen all over the world. You know, boxing is something that transcends any demographic, you know. There's kids who love boxing, there's grandpas and great-grandpas who love boxing, and great-grandmothers who love boxing, actually. Um, so it's, it's something, eh, that you need to dedicate your life to. You can't say, "I'm gonna do it, you know, sort of as a bit of a lark." You can be a manager advisor and do that. Yeah, that's cool. But if, if you are a promoter and you're promoting shows, especially at the highest level, you need to dedicate yourself 100% and you have to accept that, yeah, family first, of course, but boxing is a close second and it, and it always will be, if not on par. You know, and it's, it's, it's a huge commitment and it's not something that you can just think you'll walk in and make a quick buck out of, because that ain't gonna happen. There's enough people who've fallen flat on their faces. Clever people, very, very clever people in other businesses before boxing saw those millions of dollars we hear about. But I tell you-You got to... (laughs) You got, you want to take them all as they come and unfortunately, you know, sometimes you need to get knocked down to the floor and stand up and shake yourself off and go another round, even as a promoter, you know. So, you know, it always sounds so easy and so brilliant on paper, but, uh, there's some very, very tough times on that road

  3. 6:25 – 10:20

    What does a promoter do

    1. KS

      as well.

    2. CW

      Other than fighting fires and trying to sort other people's shit out, like what's your job supposed to be? What are you actually supposed to do?

    3. KS

      Right.

    4. CW

      'Cause I hear about his, this... Boxing is an iconic sport, right? And everyone hears it. Even on the TV we get to see behind the curtain a tiny bit as the audience. The, the fights being made, you know, that's like a sentence that you hear and you're like, "Well, what, what do you mean?" Like, what's your job? What do you do, Callum, what do you do?

    5. KS

      Okay. Well, I'll start with, I'll start with the actual what does a promoter do. It's no different to a concert promoter. The difference is we book two acts. Our two acts, though, are gladiators. They are people who want to take each other's heads off. And we, you know, so we, we sign these two up, we book a venue, we sell the television media rights, these days the online rights, the OTT rights as you call them. Um, there's sponsorship, there's obviously the tickets. And you hope that what you're paying, the two gladiators, is slightly less than what you're taking in. But it's not always the case. You know, fighters will tell you, "No, it's always the case," but it certainly isn't always the case. So you've got to bust the gut over that. But then there's moving obstacles along the way as well, but, you know, but on paper that's all we do. We book, we book two acts, you know, which is two gladiators in our case, book a venue and, and sell the rights and sell the tickets, you know. So it sounds very simple on paper, Chris, um, but at the end of the day, you know, the fight... When you hear promoters say, "Oh, you know, there's negotiation, this..." Listen, fights are very easy to make if both want to tangle. So you've got two guys who want to get in a room, or girls, these days it's increasingly popular and great, and becoming a great sport, female boxing. But it's, if you've got two fighters who wanna, wanna fight and they're, and they're realistic and, and, and reasonable about it, you can do it very quickly. I remember doing David Haye versus Nikolai Valuev. I remember if you... Remember he was uh, the, the Beast from the East, a big Russian giant, the first ever Russian heavyweight world champion, David Haye. And they'd been talking for ages, they were supposed to fight the Klitschkos, one Klitschko brother. They talked for months and months and months. I was in London. I was, um, staying in the Dorchester. I called up the, I called up the, uh, I called up the uh, the, the manager at the time of David Haye, uh, Adam Booth. Very bad reputation for being the Dark Lord, you know, the mega, mega fussy guy. And I'm thinking, "Right, I might as well meet him on the off chance they haven't done a deal with the Klitschkos yet." We met for an espresso in the bar, wasn't even a gin and tonic, and at the end of the espresso we had a deal. We had a deal on, at least verbally we had a deal, um, and went after... And, and had won the... You know, it was a massive event, uh, it was one of the biggest pay-per-views at the time, um, you know, David versus Goliath, and it launched the heavyweight career of, of David Haye, who he went on to, to co-promote for many years afterwards. So it was, um, you know, it was, it was just... But it shows, the only, the reason I use that example when people talk about how difficult it is to make fights, of course we're all difficult characters in boxing. We know that. That's why we're in boxing. But we all... If you all want something, you make it happen. So, you know, I think some of it is, is ego, you know, some of it's ego. You've got to somehow step over your own ego. So luckily I can, I can see my shadow via my ego, uh, but, you know, I'm not gonna mention names, but there are some that they're trickier than others. But at the end of the day it's not rocket science, you know. We didn't go to university to become a boxing promoter, and you don't need to either.

    6. CW

      (laughs)

    7. KS

      In fact, in fact I'd like to see the statistic on how many promoters actually went to university.

    8. CW

      That have a degree,

  4. 10:20 – 13:23

    What holds up fights

    1. CW

      yeah, that would be an interesting one.

    2. KS

      Yeah.

    3. CW

      So, what do deals get held up by? If you can do one in the space of an espresso, what are the most common reasons that you can't make a fight?

    4. KS

      Um, okay. On the, on the, uh, the top, top, top level, normally those fighters are contracted to different networks. So, you know, one might be with ESPN in the States and the other one might be on Fox in the States. The other one might be on Sky in the UK, or BT in the UK. So then you've gotta work out... Those are obviously very important partners, and that, that's the trickiest part, to those fighters and their promoters. So to suddenly say, "Sorry, broadcast partner, on this fight you can't have it 'cause we're going to be competition," it's, of course, a difficult discussion to have. Um, but if you look at probably the biggest financial, the biggest commercial fight in, in, in history was Pacquiao-Mayweather. And there at the time, the, the thing that got the fight done was, was HBO and Showtime, the two biggest networks, they'd been arguing for years, massive, massive commercial enemies. And they said, "Come on, we both show it, we open it up and we, um," and we... And it worked, and guess what? It was, it was known as the billion dollar fight, wasn't it? I mean, it was a terrible fight but, uh...

    5. CW

      (laughs) Yeah, it was. So boring.

    6. KS

      But the build-up was good, wasn't it? So, um, like I say, you know, there's always a solution and, you know, I think broadcasters would rather there be a solution and maybe share rights, um, be non-exclusive, but actually see the fight happen. And, um, you know, in the last few years, um, I've been, I've been running the World Boxing Super Series where as, as, as the chief boxing officer, the main-... um, the- the- the main person on the sporting side of things, and we put on the greatest fights in the last few years. Not th- they've become known as the Champion's League of Boxing because we go out and take the pro- the- the boxers out of their... or borrow the boxers as such, out of their contracts and- and- and have managed to create some... s- you know, we're, uh, year before last when there was still, uh, before the pandemic, we had, out of the five fights of the year globally, we had the number one and the number three, you know. But we only promoted, what was it? 10 shows that year. Some promoters were promoting 50 shows, you know, probably a thousand big shows that year worldwide, but, uh, that, we managed to do it with so few. But if you bring the best against the best it's always worth doing in any sport. And that was our philosophy. That is our philosophy at the World Boxing Super Series, look. So, you know, it- it depends a little bit on what your ambition is, uh, and sometimes, you know, fights don't get made because it's easier to fight a lesser opponent, pay less for him, you know, we've got to work out the mathematics, yeah. So you often see big champions taking, you know, taking the easier road sometimes, and that's a shame for the sport, but, you know, people still watch.

  5. 13:23 – 19:08

    How many parties are involved

    1. KS

    2. CW

      It seems crazy how many different parties you have to juggle. It seems like you're the, sort of, keystone in the middle of a bridge with about a million other stones that are a part of it.

    3. KS

      Yeah.

    4. CW

      So you've got the broadcaster, you've got the trainer, you've got the athlete, you've got where are they on their journey, what's their trajectory, who have they just fought, what's their record like, what's the person that they're about to fight, and- and this is all multiplied by two because you've got two different parties coming in. It must be very difficult to kind of blend all that together.

    5. KS

      Yeah, but Chris, it's... and- and the thing is, it- it's got a lot more complicated because let's go back, let's rewind to, you know, people who don't watch boxing too much, think about Rocky, the film, Rocky. You know, Rocky has a trainer, you know, maybe he has a cut man in the corner, there's a broadcaster, you know, at the time, uh, let's say the '70s, '80s in- in- in the US it was, I don't know, NBC, ABC, you know. There wasn't really much of a- much of a choice, you know. You got signed up and the fight was done and everyone fought each other, it wasn't complicated. Now, on both sides... So if I go to the boxer, the way that boxing's evolved as a sport, the training is completely different, so you don't have one trainer, you know. The top stars don't just have a trainer, you know. Um, the training is now broken up between the boxing training, which might even be, by the way, separate things. There might be tech- the technical side of things, the s- power side of things, strategy, but you also have a- a- a dedicated strength and conditioning coach. That might also be broken up into two things, by the way. That might be strength and the conditioning side. Um, you then have the- the nutritionist side of things, then you have the- the physiotherapist. By the way, these are all voices at the table. They might not be directly at the table, but I remember, for example, um, Mikkel Kessler, very- very famous boxer from- from Scandinavia, one of the- one of the best super middleweights in recent history. He had a physio, a great physio by the way, but he had just as much impact on the boxer and his decisions as his manager. So, you know, the- the- the- let's say the people at the table with a voice is much bigger. You've got, um... you've now got managers, advisors, agents, you know, there's a new name every day for something, they've entered the market somehow. But- which is normal in any sport, in- in football as well, you know. Where there's money and professional sport, there- you're always gonna get that- that element, and some are good, and some are not so good. Um, then you look at... then you look on the other side of what we handle. That... so that's the money out, right? That's the money I've got to get the act, as we said before, the gladiator in. So that's my deal with him, but then I've got to go recoup my money. Who's that? That's- that's of course the tickets, but that's actually the easiest part of it, and... but the- the broadcasting side of things... hold on, we used to just have, you know, in the '80s you had your- your standard channels, then we came to the '90s, satellite television, the age of digital, right? So you had, you know, you started getting S- UK, you had Sky Sports suddenly, you know. Sky Sports then went digital so suddenly it wasn't Sky Sports 1, it was Sky Sports 1, 2, and 3, 4. Then they got... now we've had BT enter on- on the pay television side of things. I'm using very much UK examples but you can look also in the States, you know, ESPN expanding, uh, you could look in- in- in other- in other markets, everyone will- will see it in their own countries. But on top of that now, we've got these huge streaming services, you know, which are, by the way, fantastic value and they're really carving the market up now and making it very tricky for the traditional broadcasters. You look at DAZN, for example, massive, massive impact in the US, in Germany, in Spain, in Italy, and now they've launched globally. So you've actually got a platform which is global and showing boxing all over the world on one platform, and it's a fantastic tool when... for boxing fans it's- it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. But yeah, I mean, yesterday, even- even re- recently as yesterday Triller, also a new social media platform, pops up and- and makes a huge impact in the sport, you know, promoted recently that they had, um, whatever one thinks of it, but let's say the old man boxing with, uh, Tyson versus Jones, which, you know, you might like it or not, but it did have... I believe it did 1.6 million buys, yeah. So, you know, that's- that's decent numbers for a couple of old fellas, um, doing it. Snoop Doggy Dogg said... what did he say? His commentary was like watching- watching my two uncles having a fight at a family

    6. NA

      (laughs)

    7. CW

      (laughs)

    8. KS

      Most of... so, you know, there's... you know, but- but- but it... but it sells that you've got these YouTubers now, and, you know, I've been quite vocal about that. I think it's okay, I think it's good to see YouTubers who wanna take up a sport like boxing. It's a... I- I would... I- I let my kid box, you know? I would... I- I- I, you know, I think it's a great sport to keep fit, but it's... if you wanna take it further, it's a great sport as well just to- to keep... to have confidence and to be able to defend yourself. But what they've done is, some of them have actually taken it quite seriously. I have a lot of respect for that. I don't like this boxer versus YouTuber because I find it... it's ridiculous. But- but the... but the YouTuber versus the YouTuber, I don't know if... I've got respect for that. If they have proper camps, you know, why not? And it brings a- a- a- a tar- a target audience that is great for us is, of course, the younger- the younger fans,

  6. 19:08 – 21:26

    YouTube boxing events

    1. KS

      you know?

    2. CW

      I was gonna say, that must be... you've got Jake Paul against Ben Askren coming up. Ben's a wrestler. Although he's an Olympian, he's a wrestler, so-

    3. KS

      You know what? You know- you know what, Chris? You know more about it than me.

    4. CW

      Yeah, so I- I-

    5. KS

      (laughs) .

    6. CW

      So that's the... that's the next one. You've got Logan Paul and Mayweather, which has just been pushed back-

    7. KS

      Yeah.

    8. CW

      ... and then you have his younger brother-

    9. KS

      Yeah. Yeah.

    10. CW

      ... and you have a- a- an Olympic wrestler.

    11. KS

      Yeah.

    12. CW

      Now, Ben, um... Ben's criticized sometimes for his striking-

    13. KS

      Yeah.

    14. CW

      ... and, um, I think that's what makes that fight slightly interesting. But you're totally correct. Has there been... in the sort of purist boxing community, I imagine there must have been some pushback. It's seen as, like, this noble art-

    15. KS

      Oh, huge.

    16. CW

      ... the sweet science. Where- where's your stance on this? Do you think that these-

    17. KS

      I- I- I-

    18. CW

      ... YouTube boxing events should be allowed?

    19. KS

      Listen, I- I think, like, if they are YouTubers against YouTubers, and they have had a camp and they've got themselves a license, I- I- I... sorry. There's no... what- what's- what- what's the difference between someone off- off the street who wants to start to become a boxer? I mean, as long as they're of a reasonable age to get licensed, absolutely, go for it. Go for it. I think it's great. But them box people aren't an obvious level. So, a YouTuber fighting another YouTuber, as long as they've, you know, done the training and everything, and I was... uh, I- I was fortunate or unfortunate enough to- to have to wake up with my son and watch the, uh... what was it? KSI against, um, against Paul fight. I mean, listen, as I said, in my teens I hung around gyms, I've seen all sorts, yeah? I- I fought myself. I was a terr... I had two left hands, you know? And unfortunately I'm not a southpaw. So, you know, I've seen boxing at all levels and I... you know, it was... it was... it was entertaining, I thought. I thought actually KSI was quite athletic. I think that's below where the Pauls are, clearly, as well. But, you know, it's- it's obviously levels off Floyd Mayweather. You know, I mean, that's like me saying, "Yeah, I had a bit... played a bit of tennis back in the day and I've become better. Oh, I'm gonna do a three-month camp and I'm challenging you." You know, Roger Federer and me. You know, we'll do it down a- down a- down a region's park, we'll book a court. That's it, you know. I mean, you know, seriously, that- that- that- that part, it's entertainment, though, if they wanna do it and do it, but- but it's not boxing, you know? But it... listen, it makes... probably makes a lot of number sense, but,

  7. 21:26 – 27:02

    YouTuber vs Boxer

    1. KS

      yeah.

    2. CW

      What's the difference between that, a YouTuber fighting a YouTuber, and a YouTuber fighting a boxer, then? Is your concern for the safety of the YouTuber or is it something more, kind of, r- uh-

    3. KS

      I... yeah, I-

    4. CW

      ... sacred about the fact that Mayweather shouldn't be going down to the level of someone that's just a YouTuber?

    5. KS

      I think that... I think that, first of all, it's so unrealistic that unless that boxer... uh, and this will be in the case... Mayweather's case. Unless he toys with him and, I don't know, throws- throws his punches at 30%, you know, um, I think it's bloody dangerous. I think it's bloody dangerous. I- I- I think that it's not... it's not tennis. The- the example I used with Federer was a bit of a laugh, but it's- it's a thing that if- if you've ever stood in a ring and- and you've... I- I've been in... I've been in a ring with, as I... as I mentioned before, as a... as a terrible gym fighter. That's how I would describe myself. I wouldn't even call myself an amateur. I was a terrible gym fighter who liked a bit of a tear-up as a kid. Um, I remember being in a ring with, um, with my old coach, actually. He was... he was a pro. He was... there was nothing special. He was a decent... he was pretty good. But listen, when I say nothing special, he's still a great credit to me. He was a... he was a British-level pro. Had to retire with- with sort of medical reasons early and- and became a, you know, a trainer. Uh, Clay O'Shea, great, great trainer. And I remember him sparring with me. Well, he wasn't even spar... he was toying with me and what you gotta understand, it is the sweet science. If you can box properly, you won't come near me. You won't be able to even land a lever in my area, yeah? And I remember standing there throwing my right after... you know, I was... I was about... I think I was 19, 20 years old. Lots of testosterone in me and I was... I was giving it a real go and I was throwing my right. I just remember him just moving and dropping me with a, uh... with a body shot and the body shot, for people who don't know, is aimed at the liver, which has the direct impact of cutting the oxygen to the brain about two seconds later. So you stand and then, boom, you go to the floor. And it was... (laughs) I was like, "Whoa. Okay." Um, that- that prospect of a pro contract is definitely gone. Um, probably didn't help that I had a terrible hangover from the night before. Um, the liver certainly felt it. And- and it was my memory, you know, and I... and that has always stayed with me. So when you see these journeymen in the ring and you think, "Oh, they're rubbish," you know, that journey man, though, if you stood with him, you wouldn't get near him, right? So, to say, as... and once again, credit to the YouTubers, I've been very harsh in other interviews about them, but I do give them credit for the training they put in because I mean that... KSI was in the... was in the condition of his life, but Paul, like I said, seems to be-... you know, is what he is. Uh, I think he's a bit of a nob when he, when he, when he goes and talks, uh, and, and disrespects fighters. I think that's disgusting and I think h- he deserves to be put in his place. But the realism of him and Floyd Mayweather, who is, once again, not my ex-British level pro trainer and, you know... This is Floyd Mayweather. This is arguably, well, no, definitely the greatest defensive boxer of all time. So, what on earth are you doing in a ring with him in your f- in your, what is it, second pro fight? And by the way, uh, just to, just (laughs) just to put this on paper, he lost his first pro fight against KSI. So, (laughs) so he's got, he's got a record of nought and one, and he's fighting the greatest defensive boxer of all time. Okay. Ricky Hatton, by the way, Ricky Hatton, a legend, a great fighter, got knocked the fuck out by Mayweather. Now you tell me, (laughs) Logan Paul and Ricky Hatton have in common in a boxing ring. Uh, nothing, apart from they both have two legs. That's it. There's no other similarity. They don't even have the same hands. Yeah? They don't even have the same hands. So, Logan Paul, give it a go. Don't mouth off about fighters when you are a YouTuber, let's get that straight. You are a YouTuber. But, uh, you're very good at YouTubing, but maybe beat another YouTuber first and, and, and, you know, then, you know, then call out, I don't know, call out the local area champion. You know, maybe. You know, (laughs) not the guy who's the greatest of all time and then talk crap about him as well. So, it's... But once again, I get it. It's a business and it's fine. I just hope that Floyd has one hand taped behind his back at the time and Floyd has the other hand taped behind his head at the time. He would still win, by the way.

    6. CW

      Then it might be a fair fight.

    7. KS

      He'd st- he'd still win because the other guy, if he wanted to, wouldn't lay one glove on him, even without hands. So, you know... So, how do I see it? I see, I think it's, I think it's great that these guys are... They are making an effort to train. It's not like they go in there and just, you know... They do put their, they do put the time in the gym and, and that's all good, but they should be fighting at levels which is entertaining for us. You know, I'm not saying that I was super entertained (laughs) you know, as a purist by watching KSI, Logan Paul, but I respected it. I respected it and I let my son watch it, and I let him pay his €5 in pocket money for it, you know?

  8. 27:02 – 31:28

    The gulf in ability

    1. KS

      You know, but-

    2. CW

      If it brings that, that younger audience in-

    3. KS

      Exactly. That's what you've just done.

    4. CW

      ... um, I imagine that for you guys down the line, where are they going to be? If they watch Mayweather, Logan Paul, and they love it, and then they think, "Well actually, this boxing stuff's all right." And then in, they go to their local gym and then maybe they start paying for your pay-per-views because they get into the more pure side of stuff. I think what you've identified there is, it's kind of what everyone has in the back of their mind, which is that the gulf in ability between anyone that hasn't been a boxer since they were a kid and dedicated their entire life to it, and even the worst pro-

    5. KS

      Yeah.

    6. CW

      ... is, is probably absolutely massive. And we don't, we don't really realize that because obviously when you see Mayweather, Pacquiao, they both make it look so effortless. But we might see, probably for the first time I think, someone who's like a proper noob, you know, like a, uh, a, uh, normie stepping into the ring with, as you say, someone who's essentially a ghost.

    7. KS

      Yeah. And that... (laughs) Well, once again, I think even, even Conor McGregor, Mayweather was a, was a farce. Yeah? I mean, it was a farce that sold a shitload of pay-per-views. Yeah? It sold it and, and it was a sp-... And I, I watched it. But I mean, Conor's a great fighter in the, in the terms of fighting. You know, he's a, he's a mixed martial arts, uh, not martial arts, martial arts-

    8. CW

      (laughs)

    9. KS

      (laughs) Sorry, sorry Conor. Uh, mixed, mixed martial arts expert and, and he's, and he's... Let's, let's face it. He, he's, he's been the face of the UFC for the last five years, you know? Um, win or lose, you know? It don't matter. You know, it's Conor McGregor, you know? He's the, the most recognizable face in the history of the UFC by a mile. Yeah? By a mile. And the only... Probably, actually probably the only fighter I would say that has transgressed beyond the brand of those three letters. You know, he's the only one if he walked down Oxford Street who everyone would pick out. Georges St-Pierre, you could argue back, back a few years but when he walked down Oxford Street, I don't think he would get stopped by a mob. McGregor certainly would, alone by the way he walks. Um, but now I'm, I'm digressing from the question. So, how do I see it? I, I, once again, I'm, I refer to that fight because that is a fight between a great fighter and a great boxer, and it was in a way an interesting spectacle. Did M- did Mayweather let him have a few rounds to make it more interesting? I'm pretty sure he did.

    10. CW

      You think so?

    11. KS

      I'm pretty sure he did. I'm pretty sure he did. Mayweather is, is a genius. You know, he is, he is an absolute genius in a ring. Uh, there's not been no fighter like him ever, ever. Um, not in terms of being exciting going forward, but he, I mean, he developed the shoulder roll. I don't think... He developed the shoulder roll which, if anyone doesn't know what a shoulder roll is, it's when you lift your shoulder up almost as a third hand to protect your chin. You know, he would ride punches and shoulders. I mean, you know, he did things in the, uh, uh, defensively, so... But this was against opposition like Oscar De La Hoya, like Ricky Hatton I just mentioned. Like, uh, Canelo Álvarez. I mean, he schooled Canelo Álvarez, yeah? And Canelo Álvarez wasn't a baby then by the way. He was an up-and-comer, but he wasn't a baby. This is the greatest fighter on the planet at the moment, Canelo Álvarez, and Mayweather schooled him, but now Mayweather knows, "Oh, it's 50/50 against, uh, against Logan Paul."

    12. CW

      You said that Mayweather is the best defensive fighter of all time. Who's the best offensive fighter of all time in your opinion?

    13. KS

      I, I think the mainstream would always go with Mike Tyson. You know, I mean, it's difficult to, to not... I mean, once I talked about the shoulder roll, Mike Tyson developed the peek-a-boo style, you know, where, which was famously built by Cus D'Amato, probably the greatest trainer of all time. Um, where he, uh, where he very famously put across the ring a wire between the two corners and would, would duck up and down between his, over his, underneath this wire. And that was the style he developed, you know, behind the two hands and these ferocious hooks that came out of it. I mean, Mike Tyson rarely threw a jab. Um, so you'd probably have to, you'd have to go with, with Tyson. Um, yeah, I think Mike Tyson is, is the equivalent in the offensive style. Yeah.

  9. 31:28 – 35:16

    Thoughts on Dana White

    1. KS

    2. CW

      Talking about the UFC, what's your opinions on Dana White and what he's doing? Have you ever met him?

    3. KS

      Uh, I think... No, I've, I've, I've had nothing to do with UFC, um, in my life. Uh, I, I looked at it from the outside. Um, I think that it's, uh, it's a great organization, the way they've built the sport. I mean, mustn't forget the storyline with the Fertitta brothers and, and Dana, and what a fantastic job. I mean, I just look at it as a, as let's say a sports entrepreneur and forget the boxing promoter hat on for a second. And it's, it's... I mean, it's fantastic, isn't it? I mean, they took a sport that was unregulated, in debt, and didn't exist and was partly illegal, and turned it into a $4.2 million brand. You know? I mean, what, what more is there to, for me to say? Whether Dana White's an idiot or whether he's a great guy, uh, I just, I pull my hat to him for, for that. So, um, I, I couldn't comment on what I think of Dana White too much. I think he's, I think he's great value at a press conference. I, I like his style. Um, and I think, uh, when, when you see, when you see him with the, with the, with the athletes, you can tell that he is, he, he lives it, he breathes it. I'm sure he could have taken an easy exit, um, after the sale. He didn't, um, which I think is... has kept the brand where it is, because it was very easy to sell out that for a sport that hasn't got that history to son it off and disappear. Yeah. And Dana's definitely done a great job post-sale, pre-sale. Those Fertitta brothers, uh, they're for me, modern-day geniuses in sport. I mean, what they did with the brand, you have to look at it. They had a, they had... You can, they could say, "Oh, well, they can do this. They could have done that." Well, if they picked a sport where they had carte blanche, you know, I mean, the ra- the ratings are created by the, by yourselves. The, the, the, the, the whole environment is self-controlled. And, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence that there was no major brand as a fighter that came out. It was always about the three letters and boxing is very different to that. You know, as promoters, you know, uh, World Boxing Super Series or Team Southerland or Eddie Hearn with Matchroom or Bob Arum with Top Rank, you know, let's face it, who gives a shit about us? Yeah. So let's not take ourselves too seriously with our brands. No one cares. People want the gladiators. They want the fighters. You know? Um, it's not about the promoter. The promoter, yeah, we can, sometimes we can be quite funny. We can make... we have arguments, we can, you know, it's a bit of pantomime stuff. But at the end of the day, boxing's about the two gladiators. It's about the greatest fights, the best versus the best, you know? And in UFC it's always been about, oh, it's a UFC fight. You know, it's not... The mainstream sit in a bar. I've been... How often have I been in a bar in the States? Sat in a bar, ordered a beer, UFC on the telly, and I have no idea who's fighting. I don't have a clue. I mean, I don't know much about UFC anyways, but, but you sit there and you watch it and it's, and it, and it, you can get into it. You know, it's... For me, it's, as a sport, it's so technical. And I mean this as a compliment, but it's too technical. If I don't understand, you know, like the holds, I, I find it very difficult. My brother does jujitsu, for example. Um, Roger Gracie. Um, that's not my brother, but (laughs) but he does Roger Gracie school, school of jujitsu.

  10. 35:16 – 43:13

    Boxing vs UFC

    1. KS

      So, but unless you do it, you don't know what hold he's got in the floor and they're just, for me, they're just rolling around in a pair of spandex boxer shorts. Ain't my cup of tea. Um, and, and you know, that, that for me is very complex to watch. I like boxing because I can be half asleep on the couch with one eye open, watch the screen, and I still understand it's man against man, stand up, tear up. You know?

    2. CW

      Do you think that this-

    3. KS

      You go down and there's a count. I think UFC is fascinating though. I think it's fascinating, but I find it a wonder, and once again credit to, to the, to the Fertitta brothers and Dana White for creating a s- a spectacle out of sport that is so technical that actually for the mainstream, it's impossible to follow. You know? Yeah. When they, you know, when they finish the fight and they jump on each other and all that, that you get. But to get to that point and you speak to the professionals about the holds, about what's going on on the inside, it's impossible to follow. I mean, I've... Otherwise, otherwise I've never done jujit- I've never wrecked... I've done a lot of wrestling on, on the pavement, but I, I wouldn't... I've never even taught wrestling. So I wouldn't know the holds. You know? You wouldn't know... It's not a street fight. This is a technical... Every move when they're on top of each other is like chess. It's fascinating, but it's... Chess don't sell because it's too, it's too complicated, you know? So, so it, you know, and people listening might say, "Oh, why can a blood sport be so complicated?" Well, I'll tell you something.... it's the chess, chess and fight sports, huge similarities. Huge similarities, massive. And I've worked with a lot of Russian fighters and Eastern Block fighters and big chess, big chess players. I'm not saying if you're a big chess player, (laughs) that means you should get into a ring now. But, a- and vice versa, probably not as well. But I remember speaking to a very old Russian trainer about 10 years ago. We were in a camp in, in, in somewhere near Siberia and (laughs) in the evening, we're in the, in the, in the sauna and we go out and I watch him play chess. And he would explain to me, "There's not much difference with a fight and chess. You got your pawn, there's a jab. You know, you got the when to, when to, when to, when you, when you, when you make your move, when you, when you faint, when you..." So there's lots of different things that, that and it's a... I know this is going to sound ridiculous for, for some people listening but, it's, it's the most intellectual sport, boxing. You know? I'm not saying all us fans of boxing are the most (laughs) intellectual people of all time, but (laughs) , but we appeal to all sorts, you know. Uh, but, but a- a- but as a sport, as a component sport, when it comes to fitness, strength, mental ability, strategy, there's no other sport that covers that amount of components. There's no other sport where if you take your eye off what you're doing for one second... And listen, I love, I like, I like a round of golf. I love golf. I'm terrible at it and I hate it when I'm on the course, but I love it when I'm not on the course. But when you hit that ball, you know, if anyone plays golf, they will understand that to take, strike the ball is, takes so many different things that you got to think about at once. But if you screw it up, okay, worst case you have to pull it out of the water and drop for two and whatever, it's okay. But you can save the round. You can go up and birdie and eagle the next hole. You take your eye off the prize (laughs) for one second in boxing, there's a very good chance you end up in hospital. So that's the, that's the issue. You know, that's, that's, that's the thing and, and imagine taking that focus required and at the same time physically drained, mentally drained, heat's getting to you, you're being punched the whole time, you're blocking. You know, it's, it's hell. It and I, that I'm going to make us sit... The only sport for me that comes close to it is downhill skiing. The similarities of boxing and downhill skiing is phenomenal. You have to fight the mountain. You're getting bumped the whole time. You're getting, you've got a ice comes, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're ski goes, but you're going at 120. Yeah? You're going down a, you're not going down a, (laughs) , a piste, you're going down a, you're then going pretty much down a cliff where, which by the way, in the morning before the sun comes up, they've layered with water, so you're actually on ice, sheet ice. I mean the, for, for me it's a phenomenal sport, downhill skiing, phenomenal sport. And that is the, that's the closest similarity in sports I can see with boxing there. Formula 1 you can argue. You can argue Formula 1, you get... But my argument there would be, first of all, the Formula 1 these days is a lot different to the Formula 1 in '70s and the '80s. I- in a good way as well because it was, it was probably too dangerous at the time. (laughs) Um, but, but at the same time it's, you've got a huge team guiding you through that. When you're a fighter or a downhill skier, you are out there alone. You can have a, have the best promoter in the world, you can have the best coaches that we discussed before, you can have the best media campaign, but guess what? When everyone gets out that ring and everyone... It's just you and the other guy or the other girl, and that moment, yeah, is, is something that I think why boxing is the only pay-per-view sport, or the only fight sport, or any sport actually. There's no other sport that works on pay-per-view. They've tried football, they tried foot... They tried the Premier League actually during lockdown. It was the biggest moan of, of the, of the country was that they're charging us for individual matches, pay-per-view matches. It, it, it fell flat on its face. Boxing is the only sport that we buy as an individual event. People say, "Oh, well, why, and why can that be? Why is it sometimes that is?" Well, it's, it's quite simple. You're paying for, and it sounds horrible, but you're paying for the suffering of this guy or girl going through hell, not only in that fight, but you need to see what happens in a fight camp. They do th- uh, wee- weeks and weeks, if not months and months of sparring, uh, of all different types. They go on the cra- you know, people talk about Ironman and, uh, full respect to it. Forget it. (laughs) Forget, forget it. Forget it. Go into a boxing fight camp and see what a fighter goes through. Making weight, yeah? Making weight while trying to still gain muscle. Yeah? Bodybuilders listening, the hardest thing in the world. Lose weight, gain muscle. How's that work? You know? I- uh, pretty much impossible, but that's the, you know, uh, in bodybuilding, you have to use certain other, uh, aids, but, um, but, you know, and it, and yeah, and a, you know, it's- there's the, and there's unfortunately been an increased level of, of, of doping in boxing, but that's the pressure of the sport. And, you know, I think it's a problem that you're going to see less and less 'cause of strict, the testing is stricter and stricter and it's also the reason why, you know, certain people are getting found out and it's, it'll put people off. We need to p- we need to come up with lifetime bans, you know, 100%.... uh, we need to, we need to... In Germany, for example, boxing is actually, um, a- it's a sport where- where- where- where... which I, I think if you enter this, there's certain substances which will, you know, i- increasing your ability to take a punch. Yeah? I mean, that's pretty much like suicide.

  11. 43:13 – 48:33

    Boxing vs doping

    1. KS

      If I go-

    2. CW

      What- what like? What sort of stuff?

    3. KS

      So- so- so- so, you could take... There was stuff, I remember, um, actually Mario Spak, he took it against, I don't know what, I don't know what the name, I'm not an expert on doping but- but he took it against Klitschko and was pounded into hospital. It basically keeps your senses going, um-

    4. CW

      Shit.

    5. KS

      ... even though

    6. NA

      a KO...

    7. CW

      But if we think about what it's for, like a KO is your body's protection, right?

    8. KS

      Yeah. I- I just wanna say, a KO, it- it sounds terrible now, but a KO is actually almost healthy. I mean, doctors listening will say to you, "Stupid boxing promoter here." It's healthy in the sense that it's the body shutting down. It's game over, right? I know it's not healthy, so don't- don't come at me and tell me I'm talking shit. I'm not talking shit. It's the way the body says, "It's game over." Now imagine taking (laughs) something that says, "You can pound me and I'm not gonna go KO." I mean, it's- it's super dangerous for your- for your- for yourself, um, but there's people doing it. And, you know, and- and- and likewise, if I take a strength performance-enhancing, uh, drug, which it is ultimately. Performance-enhancing, whatever you wanna call it, it's a drug, and you're taking these strength drugs, you're basically going in there with a loaded gun, aren't you? You know? It's like me and you say, "Come on, let's have a, let's have a water pistol fight," and you turn up with a Magnum, right? Fully cocked and loaded with- with dum-dum bullets, you know? So, that- that's what it is. So for- for me, when it comes to that type, but then you have to differentiate. There's a big difference between a doper who's using it to cut weight, yeah? Not- not- that's, of course, it should be banned, but the ban must be different for someone who is using it for actually going into a ring. It's the same, we're- we're putting a horseshoe in our glove. It's... Where's the difference? If I'm taking something and there's- there's proven scientific reports, um, which- which show the strength difference, and boxing isn't a sport, by the way, of muscle, so if you see a guy with muscles, don't necessarily worry. His power, I can show you boxers that look like rakes, yeah, which are definitely not beach bodies, who would smash holes in the guy with muscles. It's totally irrelevant. But there are strength-enhancing drugs, actually there was a boxer, um, um, Urkan Tepe, name him, shame him, um, a- a- a Turkish-German fighter, he fought against David Price, our fighter, and he hit him, uh, he knocked him out I think in two rounds. And I was just thinking after the fight, mate, this guy, he looked like, he looked like someone who- who- who- who had been, who'd spent his life working in a kebab shop. I mean, his- his body looked like, it was- it was terrible. But you see heavyweights like that and they're fit as a fiddle, you know? But this guy, he had, there was something about him, I remember sitting there waiting in the doping control with David and him, and David was devastated. And I'm just looking at this guy and he's too cocky for his own good and- and they found a steroid factory in his- in his flat. So he got tested positive for strength... And that for me is a case of, what's the difference between that and taking a horseshoe and putting it, like old school like you see in the films, you know, the cartoons, you put a horse show in my hand and, mate, listen, if you punch someone on the street, what do you get done for? ABH, you get three years. Yeah? You go to someone on the street with a- with a knuckle duster, you punch them, you're gonna go down for up to seven years. What's the difference? In boxing, it should be exactly the same thing. If it's a- if it's a strength-enhancing drug, put them away. Put them away. Simple as that, you know? But you need to cat- we're in a day and age of where you need to quantify the punishments according to the drug, and it's not about, well, doping this. Listen, doping is- is not welcome at all in boxing, and in fact we've invested, as a company we've invested hundreds and hundreds of thousands per year in- in doing these tests. We were the first promoters in the '90s who started VADA testing, you know, we did in-training tests. We were the first promoters on planet Earth to do it. And I remember at the time we had... (laughs) I say we didn't, there weren't a lot of good people, but actually at the time we were, we were made to do it by our broadcast partner. It was when all the- the cycling kicked off, all the, uh, the EPO stuff. And, you know, we- we did it, it cost us an arm and a leg, but you know what, we had a clean, we had a clean conscience. And actually, to be fair, in 10 years I think we've caught two people. One of them with- with- with fucking weed. I'm like, mate, ban him for stupidity. I mean how stupid... I mean listen, I get there's some drugs you'd wanna take before a fight. Weed is not one of them, yeah? That- that- that's for sure man, that's for sure. So (laughs) I mean why, I mean who takes... who smokes a joint and goes into the ring, I mean, you know, so you do get some lunatics but, um, but on the whole, has boxing got a doping problem? No. Are there dopers in boxing? Absolutely, like any professional sport. Will they get caught? Eventually they will, yeah, and they need to get at the bro- bro- pronoun.

  12. 48:33 – 53:53

    Most nervous event

    1. KS

    2. CW

      Going back to your side of the gig, is there a particular event that you've been most nervous before? A particular performance that you've had ready to go?

    3. KS

      I mean, I've had some crazy ones over the years. I mean, I've had some, I've had, I've had... Let me think of some nervous, nervous ones. I mean, I had... I remember one...... wasn't nervous before the event, it was only during the event. We did the first heavyweight championship of the world in, in Switzerland. Um, so it was the first ever world heavyweight championship to take place in, in Switzerland, not a place you associate with boxing, although Muhammad Ali did actually box in Zurich. So we did it together, it was with, uh, my partner at the time, Don King, who most people know. The guy with the, with the tallest hair on the planet and what a character, I can give you a whole list of stories about Don King, but this one, this one's one that stood out was, we'd, we'd done this event, so it was the first ever event, they didn't know much about boxing and, you know, Switzerland's not a cheap place so the tickets were very expensive, I think they were about $3,000, $4,000 for the VIP tickets, um, which did get you a nice glass of champagne and a bit of foie gras. But, you know, it's still about the show, so we had a big pop act on, I think it was Roland Keating who was singing at the fight, with, uh, the lasers going off. Anyways, so the fight starts and it was, uh, it was Bellerin, like we talked about earlier, the, the bit, this huge, what was it? 7'3" heavyweight champion, biggest heavyweight champion of all time. And he's fighting an American called Jermaine McKline so the Swiss are sitting there, they're watching, you know, they've paid big money to watch this fight. Second round, McKline's thrown a punch, totally missed, totally missed, slipped on the canvas, on our sponsor logo, so I'm thinking, "Oh my God, right." And I've seen him go and I, I do a fair bit of training myself so I'd, I'd recognized straightaway what he'd done, he'd done his meniscus. He, he was, it was game over. It was over. There was no way he was getting back up. There was no fight on, it was, it was over in, in, in a (snaps fingers) , you know, he was, he was gone, you know, he couldn't continue. So I'm standing there thinking, "Oh my God, no, whoa." So Don has jumped up and anyone who d- who hasn't seen Don, he always carries his flags and Don's waving the flags and shouting and screaming and saying, "Amazing, amazing." And I'm thinking, "Oh my God, how are we gonna explain this?" Like this can happen in boxing, well it can happen in any sport I guess, but you know, Federer can trip and... he's Swiss, isn't he? So he can, you know, break his ankle in the, in the Wimbledon final, God forbid, but it can all happen. But I'm standing there and the press have rushed over and luckily Don has stood up and taken the lead because I didn't know what to say and he's going, "Did you see that guys? Did you see that?" And I'm thinking, "Did you see what, Donny? The guy slipped on the canvas." He punched him, it was a delayed effect, I mean, he hadn't hit him in about 20 seconds before the, before the incident. It was a delayed effect, it was the punch, the sucker punch from Russia with love (laughs) . And he's waving the flags and they're going... But the thing was, he couldn't sell ice to the Eskimos all day long. They lapped it up. The people were... So he turned this, this thing into this fabled punch from Russia with love and I'm thinking, "No, this is... this is just too much." And, and he, you know, and, and I've got so many stories with, with Don over the years, um, you know, but, but that was, let's say one of the, one of the most nervous moments that I can, that jumps out at me, but there're plenty, plenty, plenty. I mean, I also, I remember the first, the first time, you know, I was in my late 20s, I flew to Russia and, you know, my first time in Russia and I was trying to sign the Olympic champion at the time, heavyweight champion, Alexander Povetkin, and in the process of doing it, I had to, you know, meet the guys and, you know, you know, let's put it this way, um, they, they, they were, they were, they weren't exactly businessmen, let's, let's, let's put it that way. And I was taken (laughs) out to this remote village about an hour outside Moscow. My phone suddenly went like, no more s- signal, I suddenly saw, I realized they were using scramblers so you couldn't even get a, get, get service in the area. It was all, you know, it was proper movie stuff and I'm thinking, "Where am I?" I ended up staying there for about a week, plied with vodka, had the greatest time and came home with a contract. But it was, it was stepping into the unknown, you know what I mean? It was Russia, yeah, I had a, I had a translator who flew over with me, um, but it was, it was one of those, one of those many situations that boxing throws you into when, you know, when you're in your late 20s, it was the first time I'd been in Russia, it was, it was sudden... It, it wasn't like it was a trip round the Red Square and a, and a, and a, and a bit of mulled wine, it was, uh, it was straight out to somewhere remote which no one knew and I disappeared for three days.

  13. 53:53 – 1:14:32

    Press conferences

    1. KS

    2. CW

      Talking about boxers and the way that you deal with them. You are present at most of the press conferences and there's always a couple of highlights. I know that you've worked with some names in the past that have been pretty fiery. Have you had some that have been superbly hard to control or sort of any, uh-

    3. KS

      Oh, yeah.

    4. CW

      ... press conferences that have, that have really gone too bad for you?

    5. KS

      Loads. I mean, you know, there's the famous one, you know, um... Can I swear on here?

    6. CW

      Swear away.

    7. KS

      I mean, you probably know. So yeah, no, I mean there's a famous one with Chris Eubank Jr and, and, uh, the, the, the Turkish promoter, Ahmed Onur, where he turned round and had a fight with the security guard and pulled his... you know, went over, almost head-butted each other, then he went back, took his blazer off and rolled up his sleeves and then told him that he was gonna fuck his wife, um-

    8. CW

      (laughs)

    9. KS

      ... in his bed, you know? And, and, and if anyone hasn't seen it, I s- I sincerely... (laughs) Ro- rolling cameras live on German television and, uh, if you haven't seen it, it is worth a watch on YouTube, somewhere you'll find it. But I mean the, the, the, the character without any question that I have promoted over the years,He was second... it- it- it's him and then there's n- no one else. I mean, you must, you must guess it, Chris. There's, there's, the one and only, D- I mean, Derek Chisora. I mean, the stuff that I have went through with Del Boy, and, and I love Del, the... You know, he's, (laughs) he was... I used to call him my enfant terrible. Um, you know, absolutely crackers. Uh, one of the, by, by the way, outside the ring, one of the nicest family guys you'll ever meet. Uh, a real gent, um, live in a s- we live in a similar area in, in London and we often bump into each other at the butchers. But, I mean, you know, y- uh, what has he done to me at press conferences? I don't know, I remember once, Dillian Whyte, you know, it was all this heated argument between him and Dillian Whyte. Big, if you're not from the UK, it was a big British heavyweight fight, and I remember we had the press conference in Manchester and, um, D- Del Boy's come up and I've said, "Del, come on, let's, let's have a quick chat before the press conference." We knew before it was gonna kick off, it was live on TV, it was live on Sky News and so (inhales deeply) I said, "Del, listen, you know what? Today, let's try it different. Let's, you take, let's take the moral high ground here. Let's take the... You know, let, let... Dillian's gonna come for you. Let him look like the, the thug, the, you know, the, the, the bad guy. Take the mo- let's try and win over some fans here, let's, come on, we can use it. Trust me, it's like a counterattack, yeah?" "Yeah, I think that's a great idea." Sat down. Anyways, the press conference started, and, you know, Dillian sounds off, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, "You're this, you're that, I'm gonna do this, you know, I'm gonna do you on the street if I see you." And he ki- was going off. Derek's just sitting there. Derek always sits at a press conference with his sunglasses on and he shows no reaction. But I, so I'm sat next to Del and all of a sudden, I felt like the table sort of... And he's ge- and he, he's had a few odd questions, he's answered them quite sensibly. I thought, "Well, well, he's listened to me. Well, that's, that's... I'm, I'm impressed." Right? And then I've just felt the table start to shake. And it's his legs that started trembling and then I'm looking at him thinking, I'm looking behind those glasses, his eyes are still closed, though. It's like he's sleeping and he's sort of like dreaming and his legs are going, and then boom, boom, boom, "I'm the baddest man on the planet," and he's ripped the table up, that's me... No, it's Del, me, Eddie Hearn, Adam Smith from Sky, uh, Dillian Whyte, Mark Tibbs, that was the top table, and (laughs) he's, he's, he's lifted... He hasn't thrown like something at him, he's picked the whole press conference table up and launched it (laughs) across, across the room. It gave me... I swear to God, it, I had, I had a bit of stubble, I think it gave me a nice two millimeter rake shave. It was fantastic. And the pictures afterward is, you can see if you, you see, it was across all the back pages of the papers the next day, there's me sort of trying to lift the to- like protect myself from the table. And, and he sort of half landed on Eddie, and he's sitting next to me. The, but the funniest thing was, I, I looked back at the tape and I was so shocked. I didn't actually do anything, I just stood there like frozen, like, "What the fuck has just gone on there?" But that was Del, you know, I don't know... I mean, uh, one, one more, one more for the, for the road on Del. Weigh-in Germany, this, and see this one, he was probably even better but not so famous in the UK, but this one... So we had a weigh-in, okay, he was fighting Kubrat Pulev. I've booked the Four Seasons, right? The Four Seasons in Hamburg is the poshest hotel I've ever been in. Let's say posh in terms of old school posh, you know, they've still got the old tea boys with the tea sets, that... Very relevant for the story in a minute. So we've had the thing, the weigh-in, and (laughs) actually Del was gonna... (laughs) And, and they said that there is sometimes a bit of banter and, and, and a, you know, there is a, a show element to it. But Del was gonna basically, I knew that he had bought a big black dildo, right? And he was gonna hit (laughs) Kubrat, he just wanted to... I don't know if he was gonna hit him or give it to him, because they were talking about penis sizes earlier in the week at the press conferences, and I think he was gonna give it to him or give him a cheeky slap with it. He had it in his hand and they've gone to face to face, and I've seen it in his hand and I'm thinking, "Oh my God, what's he gonna do with it?" Before he can do anything with it, so the face to face at the weigh-in, both tops off, Derek's got his trademark, uh, UK jack bandana on, round his mouth, looks scary as hell, K- Kubrat Pulev don't look too unscary either, the big Bulgarian. Face off, right? You've got 240 kilos of muscle up there, right? No one is getting between these two guys. And then one in Pulev's corner, before Derek can hit him with a, with a (laughs) with a b- with a, with a, with a black dildo (laughs) has hit him-

    10. NA

      (laughs)

    11. KS

      ... with an Evian bottle. So he's jumped over the top and hit Del with an Evian bottle. I looked at it, like plastic Evian bottle. So I'm standing there, I'm thinking, "Oh my God." And I, you can't even say security, security in that moment, there's nothing you can do to stop Del. Del is like a buffalo. If he wants to run through p- he will go through any... He'll go through walls, right? So then (laughs) you know... And I just remember there was a room with cat, it was a ballroom and he's forgotten about Pulev, the dildo's dropped to the floor, right? I've kicked it away quickly because I thought (laughs) that's the only thing I can do. To be fair, my brother, my brother actually tried to half stop him. I mean, I've got to give my brother, he deserves a medal of honor for trying. And Derek has chased after this guy, he's ran through the kitchen, some photographers running after, tshh, tshh, tshh, you know, with their, with their, with their, with their, with their, with their cameras. And Derek (laughs) has, has cornered the guy in the kitchen and is, in that moment, the guy with a tea set, like I said, old school tea set, you know, one of those, those sort of, uh, the, the, the doorbell, uh, the, what is it? The doorman hats. And he's just looked at Derek, this guy's storming through the kitchen after this Bulgarian.... Derek with a bandana on and has just dropped the tea set. And Derek just couldn't get hold of t- the, the Bulgarian who somehow managed to leg it and he- he got away. But man, I got a bill from The Four Seasons in Hamburg. Like it, I think it was at least 25 grand worth of damage in there yeah, it was insane. The whole kitchen went flying and (laughs) it was uh, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. So, no that was, uh, that was Derek Chisora. Yeah, but I've got long- I've got more ........................ all night.

    12. CW

      Mate, uh, my, my final question that I've had through my head throughout this entire thing, and I, I heard, um, Eddie Hearn on the High Performance Podcast with Jay Comfrey, which is a really, really good one if anyone wants to check out about Eddie. How do you deal with the pressure that you have on you, because this pressure's incredibly intense. You are like the crux of everything that's going on. The book stops with you. How do you deal with all of this pressure?

    13. KS

      Um, no I mean, listen the, the, the pressure ultimately is you have a responsibility on the night, you know, there's so many pressure points coming up to it when, you know, you've got, you've announced a fight and, and someone tries to renegotiate afterwards, had that before. I've had so many, I'm not even gonna use the words blackmail but, you know, there's- there's certain people, you know, they- they have a contract, you announce the fight, and then they see how big it is, and then they come back and say, "Oh well, you know actually, I want a bit more money." You say, "No, you couldn't- can't be," ............................ Look how huge it is now. I said, "But that was my pun." You know, that's the thing. So there's lots of different ways you can work with fighters, you work on percentages and- and- and take the risk and pay them a flat fee. So, you get those situations where, you know, y- y- y- you either call it all off and say, "Right, I'm gonna sue you because we have a contract and you're not following that contract." You call the bluff, you don't call the bluff, you give in, you know, if you give in once you'll give in for always so you don't really, you don't give in. You can't give in, because it's the beginning of the end. So there's those sort of situations but I think, if you look at the pressure I think, I get nervous around fights, um, um, that we mustn't forget what we do. We are the orchestrators of controlled violence and that sounds really cool. That sounds like responsibility pure and like, wow, you know, man what'd you do? Yeah, I- I put on fights. Uh, that's a cool one init? You know, that's a great one, use down the club. That's a great one, you know, as a, as a, as a pick-up line. Well I don't know about that actually (laughs) probably run the other way. But, you know what? Joking aside, I have been with fighters and their families in a hospital room after fights. So, the ultimate pressure for me is actually on the night when I get that call about everything, from the doctor that the whole thing has gone successfully. And when I say successfully it's not the pay-per-views, it's not the... That's the stuff for the Monday. But the call on the night that we have had a clean bill of health, you know? And that, and I've had horror stories, you know. And boxing, thankfully today in 20, 2021, is one of the safest sports on the planet. But we mustn't forget what the purpose of boxing is. Uh, it's of course, you know, you can talk about it, but the first rule of boxing is defense, but let's face it, you know, um, well as Mike Tyson said, "Everyone's got a plan to get punched in the face." That's boxing, you know. I spoke to one, one of my fighters, um, Filip Hrgovic, I spoke to him in, um, in lockdown he said, "I'm just dying to punch someone in the face. Kelly you have to get me out." That's what they do, and w- and yeah, Chris we can laugh about it and I laugh about it and it- and that's what we wanna see. You know there's two things since the start of mankind, since we have heartbeats, there's two things that will happen on the street right now and we will both run to the windows and pick up our iPhones and start filming. Can you name them?

    14. CW

      I'll let you.

    15. KS

      Okay, I'll tell you what, the first one is sex. You got a couple outside fucking, you're gonna go to that window and you're gonna start filming. Yes or no?

    16. CW

      Yes.

    17. KS

      Yeah. How many videos have you seen viral, "I, look I caught them at the, you know, hotel room and they were leaning against the window." You've seen it all. Half are fake, half are real. Okay, sex will always sell. Will always sell. The other, violence. You see two guys fighting in the street, what's the first thing, oh where's the phone, boop. Exactly. Those two instincts, yeah, are something that are in our nature. We can't change that. What I do, is not the sex part, is well, not- not at least for business. Um, is I, my goal is to bottle that, put it on the big stage and get as many eyeballs as I can on that, to give these gladiators the true platform. So I go back at the end now to the beginning question, what do I do? Chris, that is what I do.

    18. CW

      Mate I love it. I've really enjoyed peering behind the curtain.

    19. KS

      I quite like that myself actually.

    20. CW

      Very arty, very profound.

    21. KS

      We haven't, we haven't recorded this.

    22. CW

      Oh yeah, yeah don't you worry.

    23. KS

      (laughs)

    24. CW

      Uh-

    25. KS

      No but, but it's true. But that's, that's what we do. And we mustn't forget...... what fighters go through deserves that at every level. If it's a club fighter and he's got his big night, you know, I've bought tickets for loads of white-collar events to, to support my mates, my brother had a few. You know? That's their moment, that walkout music, you know, that's that moment. And we should... That is something that should be celebrated and, and, and, you know, it's, it's not, uh, I don't, uh, I'm not putting down any other sports, yeah? But it's something very, very special and unique to give that for other people's viewing pleasure.

    26. CW

      The thing that really interested me was you talking about how unique boxing is with its pay-per-view. The fact that you can't get people to pay that money for football when you've got 11 guys on the pitch who get paid in a week what most people get paid in 10 years and all this sort of stuff. You are right, there's something ritualistic and sacred and symbolic about, about boxing and, um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating. It's fascinating to see behind the curtain. As a final thing, I know that you've recently signed Mr. Eubank Jr.

    27. KS

      Yeah.

    28. CW

      What, what do you think... And obviously you've got your, uh, World Boxing Series and all this other stuff coming up. What should we be looking out for over the next sort of 12 to 18 months in terms of people to keep our eyes on and events to look out for?

    29. KS

      Well, I think in, in terms of, uh, with the star Chris, Chris, Chris Eubank Jr., I mean, you know, he's been away for a while, um, from the UK especially. He had the big fight against James DeGale, but that is, that's two years ago. It was a great victory and he went off to the States, um, had some success there, and then unfortunately the, the pandemic hit and it hit him hard. You know, he's one of the, one of the greatest trainers on the planet, um, in, in his dedication. I mean, you know, he's got fantastic social media following and, you know, hangs out on weekends with Dan Bilzerian, you know, he's, he's, he's a real lifestyle guy. If you looked at him on Instagram you'd think, "When did... When the hell does this guy ever train?" You know, it's, you know, him playing poker, it's him in this, you know. The guy doesn't drink a drop, he doesn't... He's lives an absolute, uh, pure life, um, is in the gym every day. The way he cuts his Instagram is fantastic. I mean, I'm, I'm sure... He must have a film editor doing it because, I mean, it's certainly stuff that you watch on Netflix. But you will see him back this year, you're gonna see him back probably, um, late April in a tune-up, and you'll see him in a very big fight this summer. Um, you know, we've mentioned certain names there, Kell Brook for example, we've talked about Gennadiy Golovkin, Murata. There's some very big fights in the weight class for him and, you know, there's, uh, um, he will fight three times this year. So that, that's, that's from a UK perspective I think, uh, something very much to look forward to and on, and on the World Boxing Super Series we're gonna be back with a new season soon. It's obviously... We had a, a tough time in the pandemic. We got, we got finished and we actually managed to finish the second season during the pandemic which was fantastic, and, you know, we're, we're, we're working on now to see... You know, there's great signs for all sport, isn't it? You know, this vaccine, you know, whatever one thinks about it, you know, let's, let's, let's be fair, there is light at the end of the tunnel and, you know, I think for boxing and all sports and all events, you know, I think it's gonna be such a bounce back. So anyone listening who's in, in, in areas hit, man, I tell you I had the worst year last year just, just mentally. You know, not, not getting out, not traveling, not going to events. That's what I've lived on over the last 25, 30 years. You know, my whole life really. And, you know, I think that those industries whether it's music, events, nightclubs, enjoy- living, life, tourism, you know, getting out there, traveling again. Man, this is... You know, people who tell me, "Oh, well, the world's changed and we're all gonna be sitting at home for the rest of our lives." Don't do one, mate. You know? I say this will bounce back. We now will do this and realize how privileged are we are to be alive and enjoy and everything we do we will, we will not... Maybe in, in, in, in a, in a year of so many miserable, disgusting news of, of watching death notes like they were the football scores, um, maybe what has come out of this is that we will all take life a little bit more... I, I'm not saying more lightly but en- go and enjoy, you know, enjoy what you do. You know? And if you don't enjoy what you're doing then change, change something. I know, I know it's, it's, it's easy to say when, when, when, when I've been lucky enough to, to, to work into myself into this position, but, but at the same time, man, whatever it is that you do, just live. Go and live, you know, and, and enjoy. You know, if you... When I, when I drink, drink a bottle of water now and it's nice and cold enjoy the ta- it, it, it... The whole enjoyment of life and that's gonna come back big time, big time people. So chin up, we'll get through it. You know? And that's, that's not coming from someone who's just made billions off the, uh, off the pandemic, you know? As someone who's had a fucking shittiest year ever. But hey, I look on the bright side, I spend more time with, with my kids than ever before. Um, (laughs) so fucking home schooling is one that I definitely want to fucking forget. Um, thank God for Google. Um, you know, and then, but, so, but that's, you know, um, I'm, I've always been a, um, a gla- the glass is half, half full sort of fella, but, you know, head up, pull up, let's roll up our sleeves and crack on.

    30. CW

      I'm looking forward to this year, mate. I really hope that everything comes back in line for you. Uh, if anyone wants to-

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