EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,084 words- 0:00 – 0:27
Intro
- RPRob Pope
If you'd have asked me at the very end, if you'd have put a suitcase, $10,000, a thousand miles down the road and said, "Go on, just another thousand," I'd have just gone, "No, I'm just beat. I'm done." That point where Forrest turns around and he says, "I'm pretty tired, I think I'll go home now," I just knew exactly sort of what he felt like. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Rob Pope, welcome to the show.
- RPRob Pope
Cheers. Thanks for having me, man.
- 0:27 – 7:11
Rob’s Background
- RPRob Pope
- CWChris Williamson
It's a very, very pleasant reminder to hear that accent while I'm out here in Texas.
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) Yeah, same as well, man. I hope you, uh, hope you spread the Geordie love over there. When, when I was actually in the States, nobody actually thought I was English, by the way. Most people thought I was Australian.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, it's just such a strong accent, right? It's not exactly... When people think about Britain, especially Americans, they think about, like, "Pip, pip, tally ho. What, what?"
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"Cup of tea, governor." And then-
- RPRob Pope
Oh, ￡%$#. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... you come in, "Fucking hell. All right, mate."
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
"What's the fuck, what the fuck is going on there, love?" (laughs) Like, it's not-
- RPRob Pope
Well, I was relying on the Scouse accent to get me out of trouble if I ever got into a, i- i- i- if I ever (laughs) got into some real shit, you know? And it sort of actually almost got me into trouble once, but, uh, (laughs) I'm sure we'll get to that later. Tell you what, a funny, um, a funny story about my accent. In 2006, right, I did my first ever Boston Marathon. And if anybody's, like, done a marathon sort of in the UK or elsewhere in the world, they've not done Boston, you've got to do it. It's, like, the best. Mile 13, you run past Wellesley College, which is the biggest all-girl university in, like, the United States, probably the world. And when you go down it, it's like what it was like being in The Beatles. So, everybody's screaming and there's signs that say, "Will kiss any Mexican guy. Will kiss any Japanese dude." And I saw one. I, I wasn't gonna do a PB, and I saw one which said, "Will kiss any Brit," and I thought, "Yeah, I'm gonna have a bit of that." And I just, I just leant in for a peck and it ended up being something a little bit more. And I had to say, "I'm sorry, I've gotta go." And as I ran down the road, I heard a... Just go, "Oh my God, he sounds just like Prince William." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) You've never heard Prince William, have you? You're so confused.
- RPRob Pope
Nope, nope, nope. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck. Well, yeah, I mean...
- RPRob Pope
Scouse.
- CWChris Williamson
I understand what you mean when you say that you rely on your accent as another layer of defensive armor, because there is something about the Scouse accent which is essentially weaponized. Like, it is-
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It is broadly... For the people that are listening from America or elsewhere that don't understand, to hear Rob's accent in the UK is to... It's to fear that there's... he's got 10 mates and they're all gonna do you in next to the kebab shop. That's kind of...
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Like, I would... For instance, I wouldn't want to work with a Scouse psychotherapist talking about my past trauma.
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) What would be the American equivalent? Would it be, like, New Jersey or something like that?
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, it's, like-
- RPRob Pope
I reckon, probably.
- CWChris Williamson
... a kind of an aggressive, um... Yeah, it probably would be a New Jersey one maybe.
- RPRob Pope
But that's the thing as well, we're, like, the friendliest people. Like, everybody, like, sort of comes to Liverpool and then just, like, they hear the voice and then they're just like, "Oh my God." And then they just go, "Whereabouts are you going, mate? I'll take you there. I'm still going there meself. Just come with me." And they're like, "Okay." (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck, man. So, what's your background in running? You mentioned that you did the Boston Marathon. Is, is running something that you've done all your life?
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. Well, I did it at school. Bizarrely, like, Liverpool, uh, is such a football city and my school was one of the schools that didn't play footy, so it was cross-country or rugby in the winter. So I did cross-country because I was too little. And, uh, I did that at school, but when I actually went to university, I switched and played football. Um, did, I did a few marathons, but I was only, like, training in the way that, you know, the average person would train to do a marathon. You know, if I was doing a 40-mile week, I'd be very happy with that. Um, but I moved to Australia for three years in 2012, and I decided to join the athletics club just because I wanted to get a circle of mates. And I didn't think sort of a... I thought my football days were over anyway just because I was getting a bit older. And, um, I joined this club, and it got really weird because I'm naturally competitive to the point sort of which stresses me out a bit. But, like, I lo- I much prefer to train rather than race, but when I train, I train really hard as if I'm gonna do a race even if there's not one scheduled. And I, I started getting really quite good, and I ended up getting picked to run for Victoria, the State of Victoria, in the Australian, uh, Marathon Championships, which is part of the Sydney Marathon. And, um, the first mile went really well. And, uh, I was running behind this huge fella. Uh, he was actually on telly. He must have been about six foot six. Uh, so that's two meters tall. And, like, he had these marijuana socks on. And, uh, the commentary said, "Are we gonna have him down here? Out here?" And he, he dropped back and I thought I was gonna drop back with him, but I stayed with these lead guys. And eventually, I, uh, I come tenth in this Sydney Marathon and I go over the line and the coach from Victoria goes, "Congratulations, Rob. You're Australian champion." And I was just like, "Mate, like, you know I'm English, right?" (laughs) And he goes, "Doesn't matter, mate. You've been here long enough." And I go, "Okay, uh..." I get the, get the medal and I, I literally don't say another word until I get the medal in case someone just said, "Excuse me, he's not, he's not Australian." And I got it and I took it off in the way that often, like, you know, people take off their second place medal because they don't want it. But I was just taking mine off so I could put it in me pocket in case anybody came up and said there'd been a dreadful mistake and I was gonna go, "Mate, I know I've lost it." (laughs) But I've still got it downstairs. I should have brought it up, but, um... And it, it got more surreal after that, because I'm walking down this street in Sydney and I get a phone call from the head of Athletics Australia and he goes, "Congratulations, Rob. Uh, you know today was the double, IAFF Gold Race?" And I'm just like, "Uh, yeah." And he goes, "Do you know what that means?" And I'm like, "No."And he goes, "Because you came in the top 10, mate, it means you've automatically qualified for Rio." And I was just like, "What, like, as in, like, the Olympics? Not, like, the fizzy drink or the, uh, or the kids' film?"
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) And he said... And he says, "Yeah." And I go, "What does that mean? Does that mean I'm going to the Olympics?" And he goes, "Well, no, 'cause there's some other people who are gonna try and get the qualifying time, but at the moment only one has got the time and there's three spaces. So, if they don't get the times, would you be prepared to switch nationality?" And I was just walking past a tattoo shop as the call happened and I was thinking about just going in and getting the, uh, the Southern cross done on my arm. But, uh, unfortunately, I think three more got the time and I was, um, I was fifth and nobody got injured. So, I keep meaning to go and get that tattoo but I'm gonna get the Olympic rings but, like, at the end, just dot the last two out. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Nearly, nearly achieved the Olympics.
- 7:11 – 19:44
Why Rob Ran Across America
- CWChris Williamson
Roll me forward from there then.
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You decide to do this rather ridiculous journey across America. Where did the original idea for this come from?
- RPRob Pope
Uh, sort of a... The original idea c- you know, sort of, all the best ideas I think are slightly plagiarized and, um, I read a book, uh, by a fellow called Nick Baldock, who sadly isn't with us anymore, and, um, he ran across America, like, in the early 2000s, maybe even in the '90s. And it was just such a great story the way he sort of painted all these landscapes and I thought, "I'm gonna do that one day." And I sent him this email in 2006 and it was entitled Forrest Gump 2 'cause of course everybody who runs across the States, you know, you're gonna get the Forrest Gump comparisons. And, um, he was super supportive and said, "Oh, you know, these... This is all what you've gotta do." And, you know, there's quite a lot that goes into it and I never really had enough time. And it was only actually coming back from Australia, uh, I, I came back to a job that I thought was gonna be brilliant and it ended up being not brilliant. I didn't have any time to run. And at this point I was slightly harboring, you know, ambitions that I could maybe get to the next Olympics, you know? I thought, "Well, why not? I've never trained properly before, so let's give it four years." And then, never happened and I thought, "I'm not gonna get to the Olympics on a three-year training cycle." So, um, I thought, "Let's do this America run. Let's get it done." And then the, the training sort of, um, didn't really pick up but the planning did. (laughs) And I, um, I was looking at routes and I had... always had this idea of the Forrest Gump route. And I remember reading an article in a newspaper of a guy who completed it and I thought, "Oh God, there's no point doing it now. Somebody else has done it." And then I read the article, but he'd only done one of the five crossings. He'd gone from Santa Monica to Maine. And I thought, "Right, this is it. If, if I'm reading this article and thinking, 'Oh wow, that, that would've been brilliant to have done,' someone else is reading that article and we've just gotta go." And we actually looked at when Forrest started, which was September the 15th, and this was in March. And we're like, "Right, six months. That's probably enough to think about it and plan." And then as it happened, there was another guy who probably read that article and he was gonna go for it as well. So, uh, it made it a little bit awkward. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Did he end up doing it?
- RPRob Pope
He ended up starting it, but, um, like, he had some, um... well, basically I think we both ran into problems in Houston, uh, mission control and all that. So mine was with injury and his with, with logistics and, um, I don't think he fancied the solo crossing so early in it. And so, um, yeah, unfortunately he couldn't continue 'cause it would've been quite fun to have had a, uh, little bit of a, a race across the country. But it was just me. Just like Forrest.
- CWChris Williamson
So what did the plan to do it look like? How do you begin to plan running across America five times?
- RPRob Pope
Well, c- my original plan was just the athletic goal and I just thought if I can do one crossing then I'll always have a thing to hang me hat on, you know? That's just such a great story. There's only 300 people who've ever, like, ran across. Again, probably like a few more who've, like, walked across. Um, so I, I thought, "Where am I gonna start?" So Greenbow, Alabama doesn't exist. They made it up for the film. So in the book, Forrest is from Mobile. So I thought, "Right, let's start there." And it's actually quite cool 'cause it's only, like, a marathon or so away from Bayou La Batre, which is where Bubba's from. So I'm already going off course. (laughs) I take a d- a little detour down to the, down to the sea and then I see the shrimping boats come in. And then it was basically setting a course for Santa Monica. No real goals on the way. I thought, "I'd love to go through New Orleans." Um, we had to go through Houston, uh, because we were gonna be getting an RV there, you know, sort of, and that was a sort of thing. Then onto Austin, uh, which is, like, still one of my favorite American cities. We went through Texas to El Paso. And so this is just all part of a route to get to Santa Monica. But from there, you know, five times, no one's ever done that. No one had ever, like, sort of run across America, I think, four times at that point, you know, and sort of, um... So I was just like, "Right, this is gonna go one step beyond." And there was a chap who'd borrowed a map from behind the newsreader at Forrest Gump and he calculated pretty much an entire route and he'd made it out to be 15,248 miles. Now, I, I tinkered with that a bit 'cause he'd missed out a couple of waypoints, like, uh, Glacier National Park up in the north. And, um, and I thought, "I have to hit at least everything you can find where a scene was in the film. I've gotta go there." And so I went down a proper procrastination wormhole of, like, sort of a, y- you know, where are all these cool places? Can I swing by Vegas on the way? Yeah, probably can. (laughs) And then, uh, then the next sort of thing was like, how the dickens are we gonna afford this because, um...They reckon when you've got any sort of expedition like this, you should really plan it at least 18 months out. And by the time we decided we were definitely going to do it, we'd booked the flights, we had like three months. And so sponsors were going to, you know, touch you with a barge pole. Somebody with, yeah, I've run a few marathons, but I had no ultra form at all, um, proposing to do something that nobody had ever done. In fact, there's like an article that says, like, was this run even physically possible? And so is somebody really going to hang their hat on somebody who, in all honesty, in all likelihood, was just going to be a spectacular or even a, an, an unspectacular failure? Because who wants to tie their company's brand to that, you know? "Oh, this is a guy who went for a run, 200 miles later realized he couldn't hack it." You know? This is my, this is my brand. And then, so we thought we'll get to Santa Monica, someone'll pick it up. No, that didn't happen. We'll get to New York, someone'll pick it up. That didn't happen. And that was the ongoing story. So, uh, myself and my partner, we had saved up money for a house. And we thought, right, well that will at least get us to, you know, California and a bit back the other way, um, and hopefully that sponsor will come back. Never did. And we were thinking about the best way to do it, which was hire an RV. No, you're looking at three grand a month, too expensive. Hire car and motel, still a one-way transaction. So we gambled on buying this old RV, like a proper sort of Ron Burgundy type special, and then selling at the end to see if we could recoup some of the money. And then even though it didn't work out like that, it gave us enough confidence to say, "Let's do it." And once we had our 30-foot-long cruise liner, we had to at least make it to the bloody Pacific, didn't we? (laughs) And that was all the planning. I only had a 90-day visa. I wasn't confident I would go the whole sort of five crossings. In fact, Nadine was the only person who ever believed that I would.
- CWChris Williamson
What made you think, given your limited experience at doing ultras, that you would be able to do 15,000 miles?
- RPRob Pope
It was the sort of knowledge that people had run across America before. And I've sort of found that with any sort of like sport, cycle, and training, it takes you about a month to get into it. I'd sort of spoke to a couple of people who'd, uh, who'd done it, including one guy who's the only guy to have run every London marathon. He was an invaluable source of experience. And he said, "The first three weeks will be the test." If you get through the three weeks, you know, that is then basically your set up to do it at, you know, the pace that you're going to be able to do it at. And then after that, it's a question of hanging on. So the thing is, it didn't really matter to me about getting much beyond Santa Monica. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to. And if I'd have finished after two and a half legs, would I have been disappointed? Absolutely. But I think I'd have been able to look back at it and just go, "I still did quite a bit." You know, "I got to Chicago," you know, sort of, uh, that'll do me. Um, but like, it would have been cool because Forrest didn't set out to run five times across America. It was never his goal. In fact, I'm the only person in the world whose goal it probably was and went out to actually achieve it. Um, he just ran until he was tired. And I figured as long as I get the haircut at the start and then grow the beard and run till I'm tired, that's, that's at least a good tribute.
- CWChris Williamson
Was the worst part of the entire trip getting that haircut at the beginning, that high and tight thing?
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) It was so weird because like sort of I've never had short hair before, like sort of even when I was a little kid. So it was 38 degrees in, uh, Mobile that day and I walked out of the barber shop and my ears were cold. (laughs) I'm just like, "What's going on?" Um, but it was so funny in the barber shop because they were convinced it was a hidden camera thing. You know, when I went in and showed them a picture of the F- Forrest Gump thing, uh, dressed up like sort of, uh, you know, not like Forrest Gump at this point. And then like just pointed to a picture on the wall, I believe it was number 24. And the guy's like, uh, like, he was just like, his expression was just one of sheer like, "Mate, are you having me on?" Just like, "Are you kidding me, man?" And of course I didn't want him to think I was taking the piss because, you know, if I, if I go in there like I'm just like random English dude into this barber shop, you know. And, and, I don't think there's ever been many brawls in a barber shop, but I was probably close, closest to inciting one th- than most people. And, uh, he just went, "Well, if that's what you want." He sat me down and like sort of, I swear I could actually hear the, like the chunks of hair hitting the floor. It was just like a thump, thump. (laughs) I was like, "What am I doing?" But if you're gonna do something like this, if I'd have run it and like the whole time I was in like perfect like sort of bespoke sports kit and I just was like, you know, not cutting, cutting my, uh, hair and like making sure I was clean shaven so I, you know, wasn't getting all sweaty and crusty, I'd have regretted that so much.
- CWChris Williamson
Why?
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) I think it's just like if you're gonna do it, this is, if, if I succeeded, will anybody be bonkers enough to try it again? Because it's not as if it's like the 100 meters at the Olympics that is on a four-year cycle. This was a thing. It was, it was a dream, but it's also extremely far and extremely difficult logistically to pull off. Like, I still swear, if, if people said like, "What was the one word that describes how you got through the run?" And like people are expecting things like grit, resilience. I just go, "Luck." And there was so much luck involved in every turn. Like, yeah, of course there was like a lot of like effort that went into it, but just slight missteps here, you know, sort of getting hit by a car in New Jersey, you know, sort of, um, if, if that had been any worse, that would have been it. You know, I tore a quad in, uh, crossing the Mississippi.... and like, why was that quad injury that I could, I could walk through and then run through? Rather than something that was just like, you know, "Nope, that's you out for eight weeks." And after that, did you really run continuously? 'Cause that meant a big thing to me. It had to be a continuous thing. The only scupper in that was because I wasn't American. And that's my big advice. If anyone's going to try and do it again, be rich, be American. And then you don't have to come home and, um, and renew your visa. But I consoled meself with the fact that even though people say, "Oh, well you did have a break because you came home." I was just gonna... I would have given my hind teeth not to have come home. Because when I did come back to the States, well it was back to those three weeks of hell every single time because you detrain so quickly on something like that. And I put on so much weight. Um, I was like 10 stone 2 I think at the start, and I think I was 10 stone 3 when I finished. But when I was home, if I was home for three or four weeks, I would go up to like 11 and a half stone just because I was eating 5,000, 6,000 calories a day on the run. And it took a while for my stomach not to want that. And it was usually just about normal level when I went back to the States, and then I had to work out how to get 5,000 calories in me again.
- 19:44 – 23:46
How Long was the Run?
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck. So w- high level-
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... what did, what did you end up achieving? How long did it take? How far did you go, and what were the records that went along with that?
- RPRob Pope
So the, the, the skinny of it is like 15,621 miles, give or take. You know, sometimes I'd, uh, I'd stop for a wee and then remember to not start me watch. And so at the start, I was so obsessed with doing this right, I would actually run back 400 meters to the point where I'd had me wee and then do it. But, uh, towards the end, probably just like, like Forrest who's getting a bit sick of it, you know, I'd be like, uh, if I was gonna cheat, I wouldn't have cheated by 602 meters. Yeah, so on would you go on, uh, didn't have quite the spring in me step at that point. Uh, it was 422 days. So that's an average of 37 miles a day. That's like roughly a marathon and a half. And we'll call it marathon and a half because I would end up having to like walk to places and get me food and stuff like that. Um, it was 43 different states, but there was probably about 60, 65 state crossings. Um, 33 pairs of shoes incl- including the Nike Cortez, which I wore as a ce- ceremonial thing at the start whenever I reached an ocean. Um, and we talked about Boston before, I actually did Boston Marathon, uh, competitively as part of the run. I almost got to the start line, but when I tore my quad, it put me back by about a week in terms of pace. And, um, so I ran the Boston Marathon, got a lift from New Jersey from a local runner, and then he came and dropped me back there like a couple of days later. And I then ran to Boston and ran the marathon, but with no crowds this time, which was a real surreal moment because you're going, "That's a fire station." And this, you know, last time there was like su- you know, 6,000 people here. I went past Wellesley College, college and there were no signs asking me-
- CWChris Williamson
No snogs.
- RPRob Pope
... to kiss anybody, you know? No, no snogs. (laughs) Well, to be fair, there was none in the competitive marathon, um, this time because I had a little bit of a silly, um, silly idea around mile 11 when I went past that fire station because there was a guy in a Manchester United shirt there and I'm a Liverpool supporter. So, I saw that he was heckling some people, but in a nice way. I thought, "I'm going to go over and have some fun here." And when I went over, I saw he was actually offering people some of his Bud Light. And so I just go past and I just go, "Thanks very much, mate. Take the whole bottle." And I'm running along mile 11 and I'm drinking away from this beer and there's a sort of unwritten etiquette in, um, marathon running that if you don't get to an aid station because you're right in the middle of the channel, generally there'll be a runner next to you who'll just go, "Mate, do you want some of this water?" And so my instinct was just go to the fellow next to me, "Mate, do you want some of this?" And he just, (laughs) he just looked at me like I had two heads and he was like, "No." And I was like, "Okay." So, uh, I drink this beer, uh, over the course of the next mile, and then I'd started right at the back because I got like a late entry and, uh, I thought, "Oh, God, what pace have I got to do to get under three hours for this marathon?" Because I, I thought at the start, "Right, this is all about preservation. You're doing a much bigger run. Don't be an idiot and run fast in Boston." But then the crowds there, this is the reason why people should do it, they're so good. I was just like, "Oh my God, I've, I've got to give it some beans here." And I, I saw what my pace was, and it was going to be just over six minute miles. I did one and it felt all right. So I did another one and I ended up getting in under the three hours. And I, um, got interviewed by CBS at the finish line. Fortunately, I didn't have the beer on me, but, uh, they knew about it. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Man, that's taking Scouse culture international.
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
That's exactly what a Scouser should have done. How did you get on with your marathon? Well, I nabbed a beer halfway around and I finished it in under three hours.
- RPRob Pope
Exactly. Well, Bud Light's just an isotonic sports drink really though, isn't it? So... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fuel. Everything, everything is fuel. All right, so
- 23:46 – 30:43
The Logistics of Running Across America
- CWChris Williamson
you have got this plan in place. You have an understanding that you're going to get yourself from Alabama where you begin, up to Austin, Texas or up to Texas to pick up your RV. Who's with you? What's the support team look like? And what's the kit that you take out?
- RPRob Pope
So I had a really excellent support crew. I had a driver, I had a crew chief, I had a navigator, I had a psychologist. Uh, and the only issue with that was it was just one person and that was, uh, that was my long-suffering girlfriend Nadine who took on every role, uh, that, that was needed. And, um, I don't think she'd ever driven a left-hand drive before and certainly neither of us had ever driven a 30-foot left-hand drive on one of the busiest interstate systems in the world. And, um-I love the fact that the guy in Houston who was our, who sold us the RV was a guy called Randy Lane, which is the most Texan name I've ever heard in me life, and he had a huge 'tache, he had a proper, like, Stetson and stuff like that. And to be fair to him, like, there were a few issues with the RV but, you know, we were spending like sort of, um, you know, $18,000 on, on something that would've probably cost about $150,000 when it was new, you know, so we, we didn't blame Randy for that. And then, yeah, and so ... and I just liked that it was just so good on the, on the run and it, 'cause of course like it was my dream and I was seeing all these incredible sights, but of course, a lot of the time she was just sat in the RV and it was hot. It was really hot. So, um, yeah, sh- I, I, I had a diamond with me. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
It's a team sacrifice across the board. So, all right, you get, you get yourself out there. First three weeks you get running. What were some of the first things that you managed to encounter between, on that first leg to get yourself out towards Santa Monica?
- RPRob Pope
It, it's just one of these things where everything was so new to me. Like, uh, I remember, like, starting, like, the first day we found a house that looked very much like the Gump boarding house and the local TV crew came there and I was dressed in the chinos, the check shirt, the cap. Um, this is the actual cap by the way. You see it's a nice pink there, but that's the inside of it. So that's just the sun that has, uh, bleached that so much. So, it's seen some, seen some sights this. And then, uh, the next day it turned into a proper, like, sort of, you know, monsoon and I was running through, like, sort of calf-high water. But then you just get into proper bayou country and I was listening to Creedence and I was soundtracking my life. And, uh, got into Mississippi. First, well, I crossed the great state of Alabama and then got into Mississippi and I saw a roadkill thing on the road ahead of me and I thought it was a deer. And it was only when I got close to it, it was like a six-foot gator, but you know, basically still, all the bones were there but then you could see the scales and, um, I was gonna take one of its teeth as, like, a little thing in my- you know, make into a necklace afterwards. And just as I went down to touch it, a huge flock of birds just scattered and I just thought, "Oh, man. There's some bad voodoo about this." (laughs) "I'm leaving that right there," you know? And, um, yeah, so I, I just sweated my way to Texas. And, ironically, the first hint of uh, trouble came as we were approaching Houston. Uh, I had a good school pal I've not seen for 20 years comes out and runs with me for a couple of days, and we're sitting around, uh, having lunch and Nadine just says to me, "You are smashing this." Said, "You're going to do this so easy." And I was, A, I was still getting tired at this point by the way, um, and I said, "Well, say that when I'm about 10 miles from the end." And I got up from this chair and I'd had this, um, pain in my, uh, in my shin for the last couple of days. And I got up and I heard, like, this creaking noise like, (imitates squeaking sound) . And I just went, "Oh, it's the chair." And then I carried on walking and I could hear my leg was making a noise and it was basically my tendon so inflamed within the sheath that it was actually rubbing that much it was like, it sounded almost like a cricket. And I was just like, "Oh, my God." And then I did all my Googling and I spoke to a physio in Liverpool and, and he said, "This is, like, an eight-week lay-off type thing. Um, what can you do in terms of rest?" And I said, "Uh, well, I've got tonight." (laughs) And, um, so I spoke to Chris, the guy I'd run across before, and he'd looked at all my, like, sort of Strava data and he said, "Rob, you're running too fast." And Nadine had told me that as well, but like, I didn't feel it at all. I was just like, "This is great. I'm not out of breath. I'm sweating, but it's 'cause it's like 40 degrees." Um, and he said, "You just need to start taking walking breaks in the day." And he said, I said, "I'm not walking across America, I'm running across America." And he goes, "Yeah, nobody who runs across America runs the whole way." He said, "Now, you have to recover on the job because if you don't your body's, you know, what, what do you expect it to do? It can't rebuild while you're breaking it down simultaneously. You've gotta give it some sort of a chance." And somehow, uh, I saw a physio in Houston and I just loved the fact that she was called Whitney, you know? And it, I, like, uh, it only dawned on me after I'd left. You know, it's like one of these things where you have an argument and then you, you think of the best thing to say in the world and I... Yeah, so Whitney Houston saved my life. Um, I got to El Paso, the other side of Texas, and that's when I started just to fall in love with the h- with the desert, you know? 'Cause it's just great. I had one day where I was running down this hill and, um, I was sort of back and forth with two, uh, Mexican vaqueros, cowboys, who were on a 60-mile ride that day. And, um, we just like, like proper road warriors, you know? Like, we'd tip our hat to each other as we passed each other and then... Yeah, like, get- getting' through Texas was something huge to me because the biggest thing in distance in the UK is probably a Land's End, John O'Groats. So for, like, people listening abroad that is the very top of Scotland to the very bottom of England. And just to go across Texas is about 50 miles further than that. So I was like, "This is, this is the achievement." And when I got injured after that, I got, uh, Achilles tendonitis in Phoenix, but I didn't care 'cause I just thought, "Well, I'll tape it up. I can tape my shin up." But I've still run across Texas and that's what gave me the confidence that I wouldn't have been super, you know, lifelong disappointed, uh, if I hadn't had done the whole thing. You know? I certainly would've had enough to look back on. I think I'd have only got, uh, um, upset about it when somebody else did it. I remember, um, you've got a great podcast about sort of, uh, people who achieve a lot and sort of, uh, but they also can tend to be very jealous. Now, I'm just a bit like, "No, no. I'll be absolutely fine." Apart from when I read it in the paper that someone's done it and I'll be like, "Ah!"
- 30:43 – 36:13
Where Did Rob Sleep?
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) So, I couldn't stop, man. It was a great source of motivation.
- CWChris Williamson
Where are you sleeping? Once you've picked up the RV, are you parking up somewhere by the side of the road or finding a truck stop and then just kipping in the RV overnight?
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. Well, you, you came up with two of the three options there. So, the third option would be the campsite. We'd have to do that every three days because you've got, like, your gray water which is, like, your shower water and your, your dishes and things like that, and you've got your black water which is the other type of water that you need to get rid of from it. And then, so I knew that, sort of, Nadine was gonna be, you know, the one for me for keeps when we are hold- both holding a pipe and, uh, seeing, sort of the previous day's meals there disappear in front of us, you know? (laughs) Um, yeah, who thought that RVing was so glamorous, right? (laughs) Um, but they had... sometimes we'd stay at truck stops and then we had, we had a hilarious time. Uh, we were in Kingman, Arizona which is on Route 66 and the unwritten rule of RVs and truck stops is you do not park where trucks should be because it... you know, they've got to sleep. They're doing a job, you know? And if they, if they don't rest, they're dangerous. And so they're just like, you know... I couldn't believe that there was a bloody trailer there when I arrived. So, we get to this place and it's empty, so we just park up randomly. And we've gone to bed about 10:00 and we suddenly get a hammering on the door and it's this truck driver. And I'm just like, "Mate, what's the problem?" And he just goes, "You're in my spot." And I was just like, "Are they reserved?" And he just goes, "I just want to park here. Move your RV." And I just thought, "I am not arguing with a truck driver." And so we moved it over the road. Now, we'd just filled up with petrol that night and first of all, it wouldn't start. I mean, like, oh my God. So, they... it's got, like, an emergency start button which gives it a massive push and yeah, it got it over the road. And we noticed that the fuel had gone down to zero and I just thought, "This bastard's stolen our fuel." And I was, I was bouncing off the walls. And I went over and I was like, in the service and said, "Have you got CCTV, like, o- on the car park?" And they were like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Boo, police." Said, "Yeah, we've been here. Someone's stolen our fuel." And then, so they come round, they take a photo of the fuel gauge, they get access to the CCTV, it's quite late. Um, and then he said, "We'll come and, um, see you in the morning." So, in the morning they come and knock and they go, "Hi, how are you?" We're like, "Great." Because we were a bit worried that this guy was going to come over and do something anyway, you know? And, um, so he just says, "We, uh... we just need to, like, you know, move you." Or something. I can't remember what he did, but he turned the ignition and the fuel needle just goes ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. That was a bloody stuck needle, wasn't it? (laughs) And the thing is, it was so good that that was the copper who'd seen it, uh, empty the night before with the engine running. And I was just like, "Mate, I'm really sorry. Is this a problem?" And he just, like, closes his notebook and he goes, "Not for me."
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs)
- RPRob Pope
And so... (laughs) And, um, so yeah, truck stops were great generally because I actually, I loved the truckies. He was, like, the only mean one that I think I encountered the whole way, you know. So, to be honest, he was probably just tired and he didn't want to walk far- further to the bathroom, so I let him off. Um, but then the other places, um, and Nadine was an expert at finding these... Was, like, the, the rogue camping. So, it was so great in the desert. It's, like, really hard to do it in California. They don't like you there. Oh, the fourth category is Walmart car parks. You know, so they'll, they'll often let, uh, the RVs park up there because they know you're gonna go in and, and buy some food. But, um, we, we'd spend these nights, right, in glorious isolation, you know. Sort of with no light pollution, just seeing all these stars. And I remember we were only a couple of days after El Paso in New Mexico and, um, I found this perfect place on the Sat Nav. And I said, "Right, I'm going to run to this and I'll see you there in a bit." And when I get there, there's a border patrol, uh, car parked up there and I'm just like, "Oh, no. He's so not going to let us camp here." So, I knocked on the window and he had so much armor on him and he was so tooled up. And he was little and squat, he looked like a turtle. And so, like, I was having to, like, sort of stifle my chuckles and I said, "Mate, do you, um, mind if we, like, park there and sleep here overnight?" And he said, "No, that's fine." He said, "We'll keep an eye out for you." Like, he said, "If you hear anything in the night, just make sure your doors are locked." And I was just like... because we were right by the Mexican border, so it was like, you know, real big patrol area. And we're in this place and we're like, "What do we do? There's nothing round here to do." And we realized that we were in an RV in New Mexico and we've got Breaking Bad on DVD. And so we literally... we watched... I... we'd never seen any of it, so we watched the first series of it and we were like, "This is amazing." You know, sort of like life imitating art so much. And, um, yeah, it was just, uh... the, the whole sort of culture of America, like, permeated the whole run. And to have something completely random like that, like, I never thought part of the culture that I would experience would be, like, sort of, you know, all about gangsters and meth dealing. You know? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
You're feeling like your own version of Heisen-
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... like the Scouse Heisenberg running across Texas and New Mexico.
- RPRob Pope
(laughs) Well, that's what I thought was going to be the trouble after that, you know, because, uh, eventually we'd see these border patrol people and they'd a- they'd always stop and check if I was okay, you know. And I was always expecting a bit of an extra question like, you know, "You seen anybody around here?" We were like, "No, no, just me and Vultures." (laughs)
- 36:13 – 47:00
A Normal Day’s Schedule on the Run
- RPRob Pope
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) What was your recovery like? So, you're running... How many hours a day are you typically running in? You said you're doing about a marathon and a half, so about 37, 37 miles a day on average.
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
What's that... You're getting up at 8:00 AM. Take me through a, a typical day.
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. I get up about 8:00, um, and so... Like, I'm not a morning person at all. I'm desperately trying to become it because I just know my life would be so much better if I could get myself up reliably. That's, that's my mission. That's my New Year's resolution for '22. I'm gonna try and get a morning, morning routine sorted.And I'd, I'd, uh, usually have something like a protein shake before I go out the, uh, the door. And eventually, I'd actually start throwing, you know those sachets of oats? I'd just throw one of those in and I'd just swirl it round and just get it in. Um, I wouldn't take any water with me on the first run 'cause I, you know, was probably over-hydrated overnight. Get to the, uh, do about like 8, 9, 10 miles, have my second breakfast, which is usually something pretty filthy, uh, like donuts or like Twixes. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Elite nutrition then.
- RPRob Pope
E- exactly. It was real top notch stuff. And, um, I actually call it the gas station nutrition 'cause it was just literally what we would get in the gas stations and Dollar Generals because, you know, shoestring-tastic. Um, I'd do that then we go through to lunch. Uh, and I had this set routine every single day, apart from the odd time we'd go to like a fast food joint. I'd have ham salad and Catalina dressing sandwiches. Now, I'd never even heard of Catalina dressing before I was in the States. It's like this sort of almost like a red creamy vinaigrette. Um, and it's so nice. Um, and I just thought, "I'm having this every day for my lunch. It's gonna be a thing that I look forward to, part of the routine." Um, and yet, like, pineapple Fanta as well was, was my lunchtime drink, you know, and so it was, it was so Forrest in its way. You can imagine that's the sort of thing that Forrest would do. Um, and then I'd head out, you know, so generally if I could have like sort of three runs before lunch and a marathon in the bag, that'd be great. And then I'd tend to do like about another, you know, eight or nine miles after that and then a sh- a shorter one. But quite often it was dictated to where the, um, our resting place was that night because if we were at an RV park after 32 miles, I would much rather start from where we were in the morning rather than go eight miles past or eight miles shy. Uh, so I'd sometimes go longer, uh, because then you'd have to get up in the morning, you'd have to drive back to the line, you'd draw in the sand or the bowl that you'd put on the floor, you know, to make sure you did the pace. Now, I'd always go about 10 meters back just in case it moved in the wind, you know? And, um, and then off we go. And, um, e- even, even meals usually like microwaveable burritos, Idaho instant mash. You know, God, if I didn't get a sponsorship deal off them, I wouldn't get a sponsorship deal off anyone. Like I said, I lived off that stuff. (laughs) Um, and then, yeah, just pretty much whatever I'd take on the run. Sometimes a handful of gummy bears and, yeah. It changed later on sort of when I was solo. That was very much more a teenage boy left in a house with a, w- with a fist full of dollars and he could eat what he wants. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck, man. And what about recovery? Were you doing foam rolling? Were you doing any sort of active recovery during the day? Any stretching routines? Or was it just sleep?
- RPRob Pope
Yeah, a lot of sleep. I prided myself on getting eight hours every night. You know, so it was a rare occasion when I, when I, uh, didn't. Um, and I would do some stretching always at the end of the day, but the, the amount of stretching I did was clearly not adequate 'cause the second half of the run I was basically, um, I wasn't fighting fires that were started, there was just a fire and I was just having to stop it going out of control 'cause everything was so tight, you know? So the, uh, in my pelvis and my glutes, 'cause I just wasn't using these muscles and they'd just turned into like fibrous straps whose only function was to like trap my sciatic nerve. And then, you know, I'd be running down the road sometimes and I would literally just either give out a scream because of like a massive jolt of pain going down my leg or I'd actually almost fall over because, without any pain, my leg would just collapse under me. Not tired. It would just be like, "Sorry, no nerve impulses have gone to your muscle this time, so (laughs) down you go, son."
- CWChris Williamson
What was the longest that you ran in a day?
- RPRob Pope
It wasn't actually that spectacular. Like sort of, there's some- some real ultra-runners going, "Oh my God." Like said, "This guy must be a maniac, must be doing like, you know, 120 mile days." It was, uh, 63 miles, um, in Colorado. Everyone just goes, "Oh my God, that's up mountains." Well, I was in the, uh, the east of Colorado, which is super flat and it's, and it's super gorgeous as well. It's like late autumn. And I was trying to get to this place called New Raymer that night, um, and I knew that there was a cafe there that like shut about 6:00. And I really enjoyed my breaks during the day and I'd speak to people. Sometimes I'd just go, "It's such a lovely place, I'm just gonna sit here for an hour and watch the world go by." And I realized I wasn't gonna get there for the cafe and it was such a small town, there was not gonna be anywhere that I could ask anyone to stay. No one on CouchSurfing. But the post office lobbies in the States, uh, are open 24 hours, uh, it's 'cause people can just like go and pick up the mail whenever, whenever they do, you know, 'cause they work so hard over there. And, um, thought, "Right, I'm gonna go and stay there." But I get to this New Raymer, it's pitch black dark, and I think, "I'm just gonna try this cafe. You never know." And I go there and there's a light on. I think, "Oh, this is gonna be so good." I had like a half a Subway left for me dinner, so I wasn't bothered about dinner, but I was just hoping that somebody there was gonna be able to put us up. And I open the door and it wasn't just a cafe, it was a bar. And I was like, "Oh, yes!" And, uh, I go in through the door and, uh, this guy, a fellow called Jeff Stelter, who's the loudest guy I think I'll ever meet in me life. He goes, "Oh my, sweet Jesus. Forrest Gump's here. Praise the Lord." (laughs) And I just go, "Oh, hi mate." And I, I just sit down at the bar and he goes, "What's your name?" And I go, "Oh, er, Rob." He goes, "Rob's here, everybody. Rob. Come on, what are you drinking, Rob?" And so I think I got bought about five beers and then I said, "Oh guys, I'm gonna have to make a move. Gotta run. Like, do more running tomorrow." And so they're like, "Where are you staying?" And I was like, "In the post office lobby." And they were like, "No way. You're coming back to ours." And so they were like, sort of, uh, oil drivers.... and so they had a trailer and they took us back to the trailer, few more beers. They offered me, uh, bulls testicles, prairie oysters. And I was just like, "I'm going to pass on them, man. I need my protein." But, uh ... (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Not that badly.
- RPRob Pope
Exactly. And so they went, "Oh, you need protein?" They just gave me a tub of protein powder for the next day and there, and that was just great. And then the next day, I think we did like 55 miles as well. And, you know, at the end, I- I- I could string together like sort of, you know, 10 days of 50 miles and, and it not even be a problem. It'd just be like sort of a normal day at work, which sounds like almost as if I'm being like, you know, like cocky about some superhuman feat, but that is just what the body is able to do. You know, sort of, I wasn't unique. If I was unique, imagine the chances of the one guy who could do it being the guy who decides to do it. It's just not gonna happen, you know? And so it does show that the limits that we perceive to be there are only perceived-
- CWChris Williamson
That's really-
- RPRob Pope
... to a point, obviously.
- CWChris Williamson
... that's really interesting about how adaptable we are. So I've got a buddy, Will Googe, who just ran-
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You know Will? Have you been following his 48/30?
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, man. So for the people that don't know, Will ran 48 marathons in 30 days.
- RPRob Pope
For his mum as well.
- CWChris Williamson
For his mum. Yeah, I think it was MacMillan Cancer that he did it in collaboration with.
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
And was it all 48 counties in the UK?
- RPRob Pope
Yes.
- CWChris Williamson
I think. Yeah.
- RPRob Pope
Exactly.
- CWChris Williamson
So he ran all 48 counties-
- RPRob Pope
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... 48 marathons in 30 days. One interesting thing that he talked about, he did a little bit of post-run analysis on his running style and his stride, and he has a very short stride. Relatively quick turnover, but it's a bit of a shuffle. It's kind of like a little-
- 47:00 – 1:01:36
The Psychology Behind Running 15,000 Miles
- RPRob Pope
- CWChris Williamson
What was the darkest place that you got to psychologically throughout the run?
- RPRob Pope
There was... The intense one was in Houston when that creek happened in my, in my shin, and, um, I got to a gas station and a, uh, lady asked what I was doing. She obviously wasn't dressed like the- the normal. Um, and I told... I gave her one of my handwritten cards with my social media details on, uh, which is runrubblerun if anyone wants to follow. (laughs) I, uh, handed, uh, that last one out and I realized it's probably the last one I'm ever gonna write, and that was literally a- a lightning bolt to my, like, tear ducts, and I just sobbed, like, not like a little, you know, a little heavy breather, this was full on blubbing. And so the lady came out from behind the counter, gave me a huge hug, a coworker came out, did the same. I went over the road and cried for about another half hour before I got on with it. But that was like an acute thing. And then once I got through Texas, I don't think I was, um... I- I wasn't immune to that sort of thing, but it would have took something pretty biblical to have got me there. The rest of it then was just the worry, you know, because I had this... uh, the worry of injury being possible, but the financial worry was always there. It's just like I did- I couldn't check the balance. I would just basically put my card in the thing and just go, "Worked? Excellent."
- CWChris Williamson
Hope for the best.
- RPRob Pope
You know, and keep on, keep... Yeah, exactly. And, uh, it happened once where I did that in a motel and they said, "Oh, I'm sorry, it's been declined." And I was just like, "Oh, no, no, I'm pretty certain I'm actually all right." And I looked and it was like $36 and that's all I had. I was, you know, maxed on my overdraft at home as well, and I was in the middle of nowhere. And again, another example of like sort of bars saving my life. I went and just sat down in a local one and figured, "Well, I'm going to camp somewhere tonight. Uh, I'll go and grab a pint." Of course, I didn't pay for that pint and the bartender said, "Where are you staying?"... yeah, she took me back to hers and she had a couch in the garage. And then I left the next morning to a really, uh, nice note from a guy that I didn't even meet that night. And he just said, "Look, I just find it amazing what you do, and thank you so much for, like, staying in our house." And so, I was just like, "Wow, if this kind of thing happens, I've got a chance of making it." So, I worried less about the money kind of things. But the darkest I ever got, it wasn't really dark, so it was ... so much, it was more of a, a resignation. And I came home, uh, at the end of my fourth crossing, I managed to, uh, hit the, uh, the Atlantic for the final time the day before I was due to fly home for my visa. And, uh, I'd got some huge news from my girlfriend, 'cause she came back out, uh, when I went home in the summer. And, um, we found out when we were in Minnesota, at a tiny little place called Fergus Falls, uh, that I was gonna be a dad. And, uh ...
- CWChris Williamson
I don't know how you had the energy in you. When you're doing a marathon-
- RPRob Pope
(laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
... in a half a day, how have you got the energy left to pump on a nighttime?
- RPRob Pope
Well, thi- thi- this was on, on, uh, my trip back to the UK in the summer. And so, I, I came back for, like, three weeks sort of, uh, in- ... after I got to Chicago. And, uh, we went to see Phil Collins. And I'm not being funny, I reckon there were a lot of babies made the night after that, you know? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(mimicking a drum roll) (laughs)
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. (laughs) Yeah. I sh- I should have actually ... it's a shame sort of that Bee wasn't a boy. We maybe would have had Phil as a middle name, you know? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Or Fergus.
- RPRob Pope
Ex- like, well, y- ... that actually was seriously debated. You know, um, I wanted to, um, call him, if it was a he, uh, Alexander Douglas, 'cause I got, uh, massively obsessed about Scotland on one day when I was running in Idaho, 'cause it was like Scotland on steroids. And then I went back and I told Nadine that I, uh, I think we should call the boy Alexander Douglas. And, and she was just like, "No, not a chance." And I was just like, "Oh, okay."
- CWChris Williamson
"Okay." (laughs)
- RPRob Pope
And I said, "I am name ... I am naming the boy, though." And she was like, "No, you're not. I've, I've got the name sorted." (laughs) And I said, "What am I meant to do?" And then she told me, um, what she was gonna name our girl Bee, like B-E-E. And of course, that wasn't what I'd been thinking of at all, and so I was just like, "Okay." Uh, but now I obviously love it. Um, the run changed after that because I, despite injury, despite, you know, sort of worries with traffic, despite running through supposedly rough areas, which were always fine, as they always are unless you're doing something stupid in the middle of the night, you know, it's just normal people who live there and everybody was super kind, um, I felt bombproof. You know, I'd had a few near death experiences but, yeah, it wasn't the first. Uh, but after that then, it was like if a car got too close to me, I was like ... you know, I, I had this massive sense of my own mortality. And, um, then of course when we got to San Francisco, uh, which was the closing out of the third leg, Nadine had to go home, A, 'cause we had no more money left, and, um, she just needed to go and prepare, and of course she couldn't fly so late. So, the fourth leg, which is one that I- I call the middle child of the run because there weren't many exciting venues that I was gonna hit, it turned out they were some of the absolute best moments of the, of the whole trip on this one. But I wasn't excited about it. I knew winter was coming. I didn't have Nadine there anymore, and she was now having to prepare for this baby. And so, I would go home in, um, you know, in, in December and she's just looking, like, stunning. You know, she had a big old bump on her, you know, and, um, yeah, just so beautiful. And I spoke to a mate about the fifth leg and I was, like, planning the, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that." And he's just like, "You don't wanna go back, do you, mate?" And I just said, "No, not really, mate." And, uh ... but I didn't know why. There was the obvious answer. And, um, I was thinking oh, 'cause I was injured, uh, I had no money, it was still gonna be cold. In fact, there was gonna be more winter when I went back, 'cause I thought it was gonna be nice and, uh, warm in Alabama in, in, uh, January, but no, it got down to -19 (laughs) . And, uh, yeah, it was pretty frisky. And on one day when it wasn't so cold in Alabama, I was lying, um, on my back. I'd just crossed into Mississippi actually, and it was a lovely sunny day, and I just had this eureka moment. And I realized that the reason why I'd been so upset the whole thing was because I knew that the finish would mean nothing to me, because Nadine and Bee weren't gonna be able to be there, you know? And so, I'd be having this amazing adventure, I would finish it, and then in future years, like, sort of I would be sat there around the dinner table telling everybody about how amazing it was, and Nadine had sacrificed, like, you know, so much of her time. She was with me for, like, about 7,000 of the ... or 7,500 of the 15,500 miles. And I would be like, "Oh, it would have been great if you were here at the end." And I just thought, "Well, why not just have her there at the end?" And there was no way she could come out on the schedule I was on, um, because I was, like, you know, scheduled to finish I think on the 18th or 17th of March, and Bee was due on the 27th. I was cutting it fine as it was, you know, she was early. I did say to her, I said, "If there's so much of a rumble, wherever I am, I will be on a plane, I will be home within 24 hours. I don't care what it costs, you know?" (laughs) "So, you know, I'll rob a gas station or something, I'll u- ... I'll get that accent out, you know? Actually, I'll just use my charm. I'll use my charm and then someone will buy me a flight." And, um, so that never happened. And what I just said I'm gonna do is like, "Right, let's focus. I'm gonna go and s- see ... first of all see if I can get a passport for a very young baby." And then I knew I couldn't, so I called up Nadine and I said, "If I come home before the birth, would you consider coming out almost as soon as we physically can to, uh, to the finish?" And she was just like, "Is that possible? Can you get a passport?" I went, "Yep, yep. I've already researched that." (laughs) Uh, so I decided to-... get my foot down, and do the distance that I always intended to do, the 15,248 miles, and get to a really cool landmark, break off with a significant distance still to go to Monument Va- Valley, come back, and then basically we were going to have, like, a lap of honor, you know, the three of us. And, um, I finished at Twin Arrows, which is a point in the film where Forrest gets the yellow T-shirt and does the, "Have a nice day." And it was such a poignant place to me because it's like a, it's in ruins now, you know? So you've still got this huge giant arrow sticking into the earth, but it was just, yeah. And I looked around me, I'd completed my miles and I just went home to become a dad and, um, kept myself busy. Wasn't quite on a Will's rate, but I did do, uh, three marathons in three weeks, uh, under three hours as well. And then I managed to do the last one in a world record for the fastest film character ever to complete a marathon. (laughs) Uh, you can, you can probably guess who it was, yeah. (laughs) And, um, yeah, so we flew out the very next day from London, um. Bea was, I think, three and a half weeks old. And we flew into Vegas, we drove back out to Flagstaff, got to Twin Arrows and there was 200 miles left on the clock. And so we had five days to bash that out in. Man, that's so amazing. The- (laughs) So the fascinating thing there for me is that there's a degree when you're being a pioneer or an explorer, um, the liberation that you have where you have nothing to worry about dying for, was, uh, what gave you the degrees of freedom to feel comfortable. Yeah. But as soon as you know that you're going to be a father, that changes your own sense of life and death and mortality and why you're doing things. And to see that, um, to have a sample of before, during, and after, and be able to look at your own psychology and say, "I was a person that was carefree, bulletproof, didn't feel like anything was going to hurt me," and then watch that transform as you realize that there is now something bigger and greater than you that shares your genetics that you need to look after, that's amazing. Yeah. It's, it's almost like a fast-forwarded version of life because you notice the, uh, when you're like, you, you're stuck behind a car that's going really slowly and you overtake and it's like sort of, you know, like one of the more senior members of the population, and you think, "They're probably just thinking, 'Life is so precious. I ain't gonna be bombing through this red light. I'm not gonna be, sort of, undertaking somebody. I'm getting through today and like, sort of, I'm gonna see my grandkids and everything.'" I had this, like, thing just, like, fast-forwarded. It was, you know, the whole year was, well, year and a half, was, like, compacted down almost into, like, into a movie of sorts. And, you know, it had a very spectacular ending. It had its trials and tribulations, but there was a huge amount of... You know, people always say, like, "What did you learn about yourself?" Um, my answers to that are generally fairly corny as you would imagine in terms of, like, you know, that I could achieve something, like, very dramatic and, you know, that I was, you know, able to do this huge thing. But that's not the interesting answer. It was more what I just learned about life and the fact that, you know, sort of how precious it is and the fact that I, I wasn't caring that I got clear- cleared out by a truck in Tennessee or something like that. It'd be like, but it's for these people that I'm, I'm leaving, you know? Mm-hmm. And then maybe that's the sort of thing, you know, and maybe that's, that sense of collectiveness is what we need now- Mm-hmm. ... and why everything seems to be going to shit so much. Because quite often in the media they're trying to take away that collective and make everybody either, you know, bipartisan or, you know, sort of just at each other's throats, like, you know, talk about the partisan things that when I was running in the States, it was, the first leg was surrounding the build up to the Trump election and we actually watched that, uh, the election night in a saloon in Tombstone, Arizona, site of the gunfight at the O.K. Corral, which I only found out afterwards, um, took place at a range of six foot, you know? When you think about a gunfight, I imagine people, like, behind barrels and across the street. This all took place over six foot, you know, and of course, maybe not quite the same range, but the big fight was happening in Washington. And yeah, and the, the country was very, you know... And it, I don't even think they were necessarily there for their respective representatives. It was teams. It was Red, Blue, Republican, Dem. And there was so... And the, the media was just like sort of, "You're either with us or you're against us." It was never like, "Oh, well, they've actually got a really, really good policy, but, uh, we've got to make a compromise." But the, the, what I found on the ground was it wasn't like that. It just wasn't, you know? So, of course you'd have people who you'd speak to and you'd know that they were a classic Republican, but they didn't hate Democrats. And it was the same as the other way around, like sort of people, like, in the cities weren't going, "Oh, like," said, "Trump voters are idiots," you know? But you'd see that on the news. Mm-hmm. And, like, you were like, "Where are they finding these people? Because I'm not encountering them up the roads." And I just found, like, a lot of very, very kind people. And not just kindness towards me, because of course I was gonna receive kindness 'cause I was doing a mad thing. But then you'd hear about, like, something they would do, whether part of a church group or, like, so I met this guy, uh, in upstate New York who organizes, like, a group by fellas for fellas. But it's not like, yeah, guns, hunting, women, politics. It's just like, "Oh, does anyone know how to fix this truck?"... and every year, they organize a huge collection, break into someone's house and like, say, well, replace somebody's fridge 'cause, you know, it's like bust. Or, like, one that really got me and I just, uh, I keep always thinking about it was a lady sort of who'd like lost her husband and, of course, that was with the job, the healthcare, the truck. And they just went and they clubbed together and they just bought this lady a car so she could get to work and drive the kids around, and I just thought, "This is brilliant." And I'd- I don't even know what politics Billy was,
- 1:01:36 – 1:17:09
Rob’s Near-death Experiences
- RPRob Pope
so there, there you go. Talk to me about the near-death experiences. What were they? (laughs) Oh, God, man. Like, sort of a ... Do you, do you want animal, vegetable, or mineral? (laughs) Uh, um, all kinds of things. Well, sort of, um, from being chased down by a bull moose in Idaho and then I literally pinned myself against a tree and it ducked into the bushes about five foot before, uh, it literally... It was chased by a cyclist, you see, and just completely startled, I was about 200 meters behind it, and then the advice is to hide behind a tree because I've got really bad eyesight. So I tried to do that and I couldn't 'cause it was like full of thorn bushes. So I basically just strapped myself to the front of this tree, closed my eyes, it was about 30 foot away and then I heard this crash of branches which I thought was it disappearing into, uh, you know, well, s- disappearing into me, but it was actually going down to a river and I was just like, "Oh, my God." And that was my Scotland day. And, uh, so I put The Proclaimers on after that and, like, sort of have never heard sweeter music in me life, you know? (laughs) Um, but then of course one of the things I've mentioned before was, like, the cars. Um, you know, I heard when I was running, there was a chap in Ohio, uh, called Nick Ashill who'd actually been cleaned out by a hit-and-run driver, and the only reason he survived and they found him is that he was on the phone to his wife at the time and the fellow had actually swerved across the road to get him, um, and like punctured his lung, broke his pelvis, internal injuries and everything like that. And, uh, he's, uh, he's fit now and he's gonna go back and he's gonna complete that crossing. So, I had a few things like that and I was just sort of thinking, "Was that a deliberate swerve?" It probably wasn't, it was probably a phone distraction. The biggest example of that was I had when I was in Tennessee and a huge 18-wheel rig just jackknifed in front of me and I was standing there, I was pushing my stroller at this point because I was solo and so this stroller carried all my belongings. I would face oncoming traffic, so I was on the left-hand side of the road there, and I was just trundling along, see this truck and then suddenly it just starts screaming, it bends double and like you could see the steam coming up from its wheels and I'm just stood there looking at it. I'm not scared, I'm not seeing me life flash before my eyes, I'm just thinking, "That's gonna hit me, that is." And then - and it would have done because I was just frozen to the spot and it stopped about 30 foot shy of me, you know? And so, um, the guy just sort of looked up from like his wheel and I was just like, "Mate, you know, we're both pretty lucky boys." Because, um, yeah, I think he was on his phone. And, um, yeah, man. Like, Highway 190 in, uh, in Baton Rouge in, um, crossing the Mississippi for the first time. It should have been a celebration, but there was no sidewalk, no shoulder, just four lanes of traffic and a 200-foot drop to the Mississippi. So, uh, I, I, I knew this in advance, but I didn't want to do another 30 miles. I thought, "It's only a mile. How bad can it be?" You know, sort of, uh, we'll, we'll all go through our worst mile probably metaphorically or liter- literally in our lives. So, I get to the point where the, uh, where the shoulder disappears into a point and I get my MP3 player out, engage Guns N' Roses: Welcome to the Jungle, put that on, and as soon as like, you know, like, the lyrics kick in, I go. And I go across this bridge in like sort of 5:43 and the line comes out at the end: "Do you know where you are, baby? You're in the jungle. You're gonna die." (mimics guitar)
- NANarrator
(laughs)
- RPRob Pope
And, uh, I didn't. You know, I've got some excellent YouTube footage of it though and you'll see that I came pretty close. (laughs) Um, the, the closest I actually came to genuine death was, um, I was just crossing from upstate New York into Pennsylvania and I saw this guy, shirtless, must have weighed about, I don't know, 250, 300 pounds maybe. Skinhead, tattoos everywhere, and then really rural. And he's got this like trash bag in his hand and he throws it across his garden and I'm like, "Uh, it's a bit weird. Why would you do that?" You know, he's not throwing it in the bin, he's just throwing it across his garden and, uh, or yard. And he just walks up to this bag and as he's there, I see the bag move and I realize it's got legs and I thought, "Oh, my God. Like, he's just... That's his dog? What do, what do I say? Do I, do I say something?" And I was just like stood there watching as well like sort of, you know, I don't know, 100 feet away and I thought, "No, if I say something, I'm dead." And, uh, but he just strides over and just kicks it, like full punts it in the belly and the dog lifts off the floor. You know, this is like, you know, 10 kilo, 15 kilo dog lifts off the floor, the force he puts through it. And that is when I did engage my scaredy scout voice and, um, if you listen to the audiobook, I don't think I could actually ever reprise it with such fury as I did on that day. But I gave it a really good go in the audiobook. We even had to bleep things out because I went over the top. And, um, I just... As soon as I said it, I just thought, "That was the stupidest thing you've just done in, in the history of the world." And I thought, "Let's just hope that he realizes that he was out of order and he doesn't sound scary." And he just goes, "What did you say?" And I just said...... God, I thought, "I can't back down now." So I went forward again and then, uh, h- he just starts walking over and I get me phone out. I try to take a photo of him but it doesn't work and I go, "Mate, I've just taken a photo of you. One more step and I'm calling the police." And so he doesn't just take one more step, he just starts running towards me with his dog wagging its tail next to him as, as it bloody would. So I'm just like, "Right, I've got to go here." And I'm pushing me stroller, thanking God that it was a flat road, you know. And we go about 250 meters and I realize he's not catching me and so I sort of think, "What do I do here? Like do I say something else to him like, 'Mate, let's just forget about this.'" And I thought-
- CWChris Williamson
(laughs) Just in-
- RPRob Pope
... no, no.
- CWChris Williamson
... just in case you didn't know, mate, I've done 10,000 miles. So if you want to keep going-
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. (laughs) .
- CWChris Williamson
... between the two of us, my cardio's going to eat you alive.
- RPRob Pope
Well, well, I might have actually slowed down a little bit to see if he was going to carry on giving a, giving the chase 'cause, because I wanted him to get as far away from his house as possible 'cause I just thought, "Oh my God, if he, if he goes back and gets a gun." And then so he eventually bends double but then he turns around and runs back to his house. He doesn't walk back. He was so tired, he had to like, you know, put his hands on his knees and breathe, but then he runs back to his house. And he didn't look the sort to have, uh, to be doing a nice little sort of a dinner for, for the local church group on his stove and so I just thought, "He's going to go and get his truck. He's going to go and get his gun." And so I'm literally steaming down this road knowing that he probably wouldn't have come the whole way across the road to clean me out but every car and truck that go past me, I'm just like looking, it's like, "Is that Skinner guy? Skinner guy? Skinner guy?" And I eventually get to this like sort of, uh, you know, place and just like sit down and like s-... I think I drank so many cans of Coke just because I needed like the sugar in beer. (laughs) It's still-
- NANarrator
Yeah.
- RPRob Pope
Yeah, exactly. And then I took a screen grab of where it was on the map and sent Nadine a message saying, "If you don't hear from me within the next 12 hours, you have to direct the police to this point, uh, because they probably will find a body or at least some evidence of where the trail's going to begin there." And she was just like, "What's this about? What's this about?" And I'd just sent that and I ran into an area where there was no mobile reception. So that was like it, you know? And so it was about three or four hours before I could get another message back to her. (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Your missus is an absolute saint.
- RPRob Pope
You know, the... This is the sort of thing, like so I've written my story down and everyone's just gonna go, "When's Nad's right there?" But, and I keep telling her to do, you know, so she's got some tales, you know? (laughs)
- CWChris Williamson
Fucking hell. So what happened with this pram? A- after a while, your missus had to go back to the UK, which meant did the RV go partway through and then what the, what were you doing with the pram?
- RPRob Pope
Yeah. Well, we went, we went to... We, we doubled back and we went to Tennessee. And she was flying back from Nashville and so, um, we put the RV into storage in Cookeville. It was actually quite weird because, um, I tore my quad when I was, uh, going across the Mississippi for the second time and I ended up like s- literally, uh, the last half of that day I was in Memphis and I couldn't run. I was walking in Memphis, man. And the irony of that was not lost on me. And we parked up in this mobile home place for two days and I woke up the next morning 'cause I knew me leg was sore but I wasn't like, "Oh, I've torn my quad." I was just like, "Yeah, I've got a little bit of a pull." And I woke up the next morning and it was almost as if like sort of someone had like stuffed a, like an orange under me- underneath the skin it was that swollen. But then I put my finger in it and it was just like, "Oh, no." And it just went back really slowly and I just went, "I've torn this." And then walked to like the l- little wash block, which was like about, you know, 30 meters away and I just couldn't. I had to hop. After about 10 meters, I had to hop. Came back and I said, "We're not going anywhere today." And that happened the next day and then I think Nadine was due to fly back in about three days' time and I said, "listen, I'm just gonna go to the start today. If I can't walk, you know, like a good distance, then I'll just come back with you and this is it. This is our... I'm pretty tired. I'm pretty torn. I think I'll go home now." And so, um, we knew that she was going, um, so I, I had some preparation for being solo and it was actually a pram that I'd bought in Australia 'cause I thought I might run across Australia and that never happened. In fact, the first time I ever set this thing up and pushed it was in that mobile home park. And, um, I knew in four days' time not only was I gonna be having to get from A to B with a, with a torn quad, I was also gonna be pushing a sled effectively, you know? And so it was just like, "This is not good for the quad." And, um, yeah, so I managed to do 27 miles that day, 33 miles the next day. Uh, this is walking. And then I would gradually reintroduce the, uh, the runs and stuff. When we got to Jackson, uh, we got like a, a Greyhound, uh, to Nashville. Oh, so actually we drove the, the, uh, the RV to Nashville and then we put it in storage just down the road. I got the Greyhound back to Jackson when I'd finished running and it was just such a... I, I felt like I was in a Bruce Springsteen song 'cause I'd just come out... I didn't have my guitar but I had this stroller folded up and I just like put it together and then that was it. I had a holdall with all my stuff in. You know, spare shoes underneath, water container on the front, um, and a wing and a prayer. (laughs)
Episode duration: 1:36:03
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