The Most Important Daily Habits For Health & Longevity - Dr Rhonda Patrick (4K)

1. 0:00 – 7:31

   Are Low Omega-3s Worse Than Smoking?

   1. CWChris Williamson0:00

      Are low omega-3s worse than smoking cigarettes?

   2. RPDr Rhonda Patrick0:03

      (laughs) Um, I don't know that they're worse. So omega-3 fatty acids are es- you know, they're essential for many things. And, um, I think you're referring to one specific study that came out of, uh, Dr. Bill Harris's group. He's the head of the Fatty Acid Research Institute, and he's actually the pioneer of the omega-3 index test, which is how you should measure your omega-3 levels. Um, they're measured in our red blood cells rather than what you'll 99% of the time find if you get a o- omega-3 test, it's plasma levels. So red blood cells take about 120 days to turn over, so it's a long term marker of your omega-3. Whereas if you go and get a omega-3 plasma test, it's kinda like, "Well, what did I eat for dinner in the last week?" Right? So you, you may have had a bunch of salmon, but maybe you don't usually eat salmon. So, so anyways, the omega-3 index is e- a way to measure omega-3 levels, and he had done a study looking at omega-3 levels and what's called all cause mortality, so people dying from all sorts of non-accidental causes. Cardiovascular disea- disease is always at the top of the list because that's pretty much what everyone's dying of. That's like the number one cause of, uh, death in most developed countries. And so, um, he was looking at all cause mortality and correlating that with the omega-3 index, which essentially is measuring omega-3 le- fatty acid levels. And, um, what he found was that... So people that have a low omega-3 index, so that would be 4% or less, ha- and then comparing it to people that had a high omega-3 index, so that would be 8% or higher. So people that had the high omega-3 index had a five year increased life expectancy compared to people with the low. Now people in the United States on average have about a 4 to 5% omega-3 index, so it's pretty, pretty standard, th- pretty standard, I would say, in terms of like what people in the US have in terms of their, of their omega-3 versus Japan, where they eat a lot of seafood. Their omega-3 index is like 10%. So... And they have a five year increased life expectancy, by the way, compared to people in the United States. Um, so what he also did, uh, him and his re- his colleagues, looked at... They stratified da- the data and looked at oth- other factors, physical activity, you know, BMI, smoking. And this is where it got super interesting because, um... And I, I, I just... The graph of this data does it like more ju- justice, you know, 'cause you can visually see it, but he looked at all cause mortality, and people that like lived the longest were of course with the high omega-3 index with no smoking, right? So like non-smokers, they had the longest life expectancy. And then people with the lowest life expectancy were smokers with a low omega-3 index. But then when he looked at people that smoked but had a high omega-3 index, either they're eating a lot of fish or supplementing, they had the same life expectancy as people with low omega-3 but didn't smoke. So in other words, having a low omega-3 index was like smoking with respect to all cause mortality. And that's, you know... And of course, I get all the smokers out there going, "Oh, so all I have to do is supplement with omega-3." And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no."

   3. CWChris Williamson3:08

      (laughs)

   4. RPDr Rhonda Patrick3:08

      "That's the wrong way to think about it." You know, I think, I think most people now know smoking is terrible for your health. And it, and it goes back to this idea, this framework that I like to think about nutrition, which is what do we need, right? Instead of like always focusing on what to avoid. Because if you focus on what to avoid, you still may not be getting what you need to run your metabolism, to run, you know, neurotransmitter synthesis, and all of that. So omega-3 fatty acids are hugely important for many things, and we could talk hours for that. But with respect to smoking, it's really quite s- you know, it's e- it's kind of asto- astounding when you just look at that graph, and they're like overlaid where you're like, "Oh, wow, non-smokers are l- with low omeg- omega-3 are living as long as smokers with high omega-3."

   5. CWChris Williamson3:55

      Do you think that this is a direct cause of the omega-3s or is there some healthy user bias that's upstream from the kinds of people who are the kinds of people that are like people that will have omega-3s in their diet?

   6. RPDr Rhonda Patrick4:05

      Great question. So, um, with this type of data, which is observational data, it's always a correlation. So you can never, you know, definitively say it's cause, right? A causation. So yes, there could be, it could be a healthy user bias. There were other factors that were accounted for. But I will say this. Smoking, everyone thinks about smoking and lung cancer or like cancer risk, right? The... Actually the biggest problem with smoking is heart disease. It is a huge... It's... So when you... So here's the thing that I like to think about, like m- with respect to smoking and disease risk. Smoking in a dose-dependent manner will increase your risk for lung cancer. So in other words, the more cigarettes that you smoke, the higher the risk of cancer. But it's not a linear increase with respect to cardiovascular disease and heart attack risk. So you can just have a little bit of cigarettes and your s- your heart disease risk skyrockets. And omega-3s, one of the biggest things that it protects against is heart disease, right? Doctors prescribe it. So there's been randomized controlled trials where people are given high dose omega-3, purified omega-3, um, in the form of either EPA, which is one of the marine sources, or a combination of DHA and EPA. Um, and, and, and a variety of studies have shown that like heart attack risk, um, risk of, of dying from cardio- cardiovascular disease is dramatically lower in people that are given omega-3s compared to a placebo. So, you know, the fact that the s- the non-smokers with, um, a low omega-3 index are probably effect- it's affecting their cardiovascular health.

   7. CWChris Williamson5:43

      Mm.

   8. RPDr Rhonda Patrick5:43

      Inflammation is a big, also a big driver of cardiovascular disease, and omega-3s are really good at lowering inflammation in many different ways. So...... yet to, to sort of the long-winded, you know, answer to your question is no, you can't definitively say that healthy user bias isn't involved.

   9. CWChris Williamson6:00

      But there's a mechanism-

   10. RPDr Rhonda Patrick6:01

       But-

   11. CWChris Williamson6:01

       ... that we could see how it would work?

   12. RPDr Rhonda Patrick6:03

       There is. And, you know, again, there is adjustment for other health factors. So, you would think that that would show up.

   13. CWChris Williamson6:09

       Let's say that someone goes, "I hadn't even thought about omega-3s, I should probably optimize those." What's the 80/20 of getting good omega-3s in your diet? Someone might struggle with seafood, it's kinda hard or expensive to cook at home, where would you send them for getting it from diet, getting it from supplementation? W- what do they need to know?

   14. RPDr Rhonda Patrick6:26

       So, I think, um, I talked about that omega-3 index, and again, you wanna get 8% or higher. It's always good to measure things. But there's been studies done where people with a low omega-3 index, so the standard American basically, 4%, if you give them about two grams a day of omega-3, they can raise their omega-3 index from 4% to 8%. So, that would be a supplemental form, pretty... Two grams, so I'll just give you, to give you some s- perspective, you know, physicians prescribe, um, what's... Lovaza, which is a DHA and EPA ethyl ester form. We can talk about different forms of omega-3, um, of omega-3. And they also prescribe, uh, Vascepa, which is a highly pure EPA form. And they prescribe them at gram, um, in the gram dose of four grams per day. So, that's twice as much as two grams a day, which is why I'm... What, what I'm getting at, it's a fairly safe dose. And, um, so two grams a day can raise people from 4% to 8%. I think that's a really good sort of just starting point or the average person. Now, I take experimentally higher doses. But, but, you know, I think generally speaking, it's pretty safe for most people to take two grams a day, and you're gonna get that high omega-3 index, that 8%.

2. 7:31 – 12:53

   How to Know What Omega-3 Supplements to Use

   1. RPDr Rhonda Patrick7:31

   2. CWChris Williamson7:31

      Where are they going to go? How are they going to assess without getting some Norwegian farmer that's squeezing fish into a barrel-

   3. RPDr Rhonda Patrick7:37

      (laughs) .

   4. CWChris Williamson7:38

      ... and, and doing it holistically himself? What can you say about assessing the quality of... I, I even remember cod liver oil tablets back in the day, there was all sorts of uproar before there was even a podcasting universe to kind of scrutinize it. What do people need to know if they're choosing their omega-3 supplement?

   5. RPDr Rhonda Patrick7:54

      I think choosing an omega-3 supplement is, um, we actually have a lot of data nowadays, and we have access to that data quite easily 'cause there's a lot of third-party testing sites that go out, and they just randomly get fish oil supplements off the grocery store shelves. And they say, "I'm gonna take this supplement and I'm gonna measure important things. I'm gonna measure the concentration of the omega-3s, EPA and DHA. Is the concentration in there what is stated on the bottle? I'm going to measure, you know..." So fish, it's being isolated for it's, it's a, it's an oil, it's in the fat, right? So, um, fish also have contaminants. They have PCBs, they have mercury, among others. And so measuring those contaminants is important, because fish oil's generally purified, but you wanna make sure a good job was done. So, those contaminants are measured. And then, um, oxidation. So, omega-3s are a polyunsaturated fatty acid prone to oxidation. And so you don't wanna get something that has an oxidation greater than 10. So, anything greater than 10 of total oxidation, you wanna avoid. Because it's like consuming rancid fat, right? Rancid lipids. Like, you don't wanna do that. So, so you, those things are all measured. And, um, there's sources out there. So ConsumerLab is a, you know, third-party testing site that, you know, they just... Uh, there's a lot of affordable brands that you can find, because some supplements are just very expensive. So, I do like to kind of send people there, because... I have no affiliation with ConsumerLab, by the way. I just like that, I, I like, I use them (laughs) . So, I like that you can go and find a, a pretty decent quality fish oil supplement. If you're a data nerd, like me, you can take this up a level, and you can go to the International Fish Oil Standard site, IFOS. They just, I mean, it's like data party. Like, they give you so much data. But like, you have to like know what to do with it. So, they measure all these things, but like, and everything else, right? Um, and they also tell you the form it's in. So I mentioned ethyl ester for the prescription form. There's also triglyceride form. Those are the two main forms that you can find fish oil supplements or omega-3 supplements in. And, um, generally speaking, triglyceride form is, is the most bioavailable. Triglyceride form is what is the form if you're eating fish. L- the, the omega-3s are in triglyceride form. When the omega-3s are purified, they take it out of the triglyceride form, and they purify it, and it's in an ethyl ester form. Some companies then re-esterify it back into that form to make it supreme and more bioavailable.

   6. CWChris Williamson10:19

      Both pure and bioavailable.

   7. RPDr Rhonda Patrick10:20

      Exactly. But not everyone does that. And so if you get it in ethyl ester form, which is what is prescribed, most people that are getting prescription form of omega-3 to help prevent cardiovascular disease, they're taking ethyl ester form. The-

   8. CWChris Williamson10:32

      It's what I've got.

   9. RPDr Rhonda Patrick10:33

      The thing to know is you have to take it with a meal, and preferably with a higher fat meal, because it is absorb... It, it, you will absorb so little if you're taking it on an empty stomach. It's very important. And, um, I didn't wanna get into all the nuance, but I mentioned two grams a day of omega-3 will raise your omega-3 index from low to high, right? 4% to 8%. Well, if you really kinda look at the form people were taking, triglyceride versus ethyl ester, you know, they had to take, you know, less of the triglyceride form to get there. But, so I like to just average it out and say two. But, um, so if you can get triglyceride form, it's, it's a great form to get.

   10. CWChris Williamson11:09

       How much salmon or cod or halibut do I need to eat per week if I was going to try and get this through my diet?

   11. RPDr Rhonda Patrick11:16

       Right. I mean, that's, that's a question that I don't have empirical data to back up. But I'll s- so, so here's my sort of thoughts on that. Um, I do think that wild Alaskan salmon is one of the best source of omega-3, because, um, that is a fish that has a very low level of contaminants, like mercury, uh, PCBs per gram, or per ounce, I guess, is usually measured per ounce of, of the fish, right? So, salmon would be a great source. Now, how much of that do you have to eat? Uh, it's really, you know, depends on the cooking method. Like, how, how cooked was it? Because you can degrade some of the omega-3s, they are somewhat heat sensitive. So, I don't know how much you... You'd have to do a test, right? So you'd have to say, "Okay, I typically eat salmon two nights a week or three nights a week." And, and then you wanna wait 120 days-

   12. CWChris Williamson12:03

       Mm-hmm.

   13. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:03

       ... right? Because it takes that long for your red blood cells to turn over.

   14. CWChris Williamson12:07

       Okay.

   15. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:07

       I know, here's the protocol.

   16. CWChris Williamson12:08

       Rhonda, just- just tell me how much salmon I need to eat. Come on, please.

   17. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:11

       Ah, well, I- I don't know, I can't-

   18. CWChris Williamson12:12

       Twice a week?

   19. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:13

       At least, at least.

   20. CWChris Williamson12:14

       Twice, okay.

   21. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:14

       I would- I would say you probably have to supplement on top of that. I don't know that twice a week is necessarily- necessarily gonna go from 4% to 8%.

   22. CWChris Williamson12:19

       Got you. But if you were to do, you know, I- I would imagine a lot of the people that care about this, listening to this protocol, will think, "Right, I'm gonna find a good quality, uh, low oxidation triglyceride version of omega-3s that are responsibly sourced, that I like the look of. I'm gonna take 2 grams of that per day, and I'm probably gonna try and have some sort of fish meal twice per week." Does that seem realistic?

   23. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:42

       That's absolutely, that's kind- that's what I do. I mean, I'm vegan-

   24. CWChris Williamson12:44

       We did it.

   25. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:45

       I'm, that's what I-

   26. CWChris Williamson12:46

       We did it.

   27. RPDr Rhonda Patrick12:46

       I do- I do up the dose a little bit more, but like I said, you know, I like eat it, like, I take it throughout the day, the omega-3s.

   28. CWChris Williamson12:52

       You mentioned about

3. 12:53 – 20:19

   The UK Are Banning Disposable Vapes

   1. CWChris Williamson12:53

      smoking there. Did you see that the UK is thinking about introducing, it looks like it's going to introduce, a disposable vape ban countrywide? That literally came out.

   2. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:03

      Disposable vape ban?

   3. CWChris Williamson13:04

      Yeah.

   4. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:04

      Is there a non-disposable vapes that will still be allowed?

   5. CWChris Williamson13:06

      Yeah, so you know the kind of, uh, liquid that people, the e-liquid that people put into the, these huge things that look like knuckle dusters?

   6. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:13

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson13:13

      So those'll still be allowed.

   8. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:14

      Okay.

   9. CWChris Williamson13:14

      So people can still get the non-disposable vape liquid, plus the contraptions you need to make it work. But the ELF bar, the Esco bar, that stuff.

   10. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:26

       What are teenagers getting their hands on? What are junior high s- are they getting mon- the disposables?

   11. CWChris Williamson13:29

       It's the- it's the disposables, yeah.

   12. RPDr Rhonda Patrick13:30

       Is that- is that the driving force?

   13. CWChris Williamson13:31

       Well, it's just way more, it's way more, um, arduous to be, uh, you go and buy this thing and then you get the liquid, and then you fill it with the liquid and all the rest of it, and the flavors are a little bit more, uh, uh, tough to balance. Uh, but yeah, it's the disposable stuff. There's a couple of comments about oh, an environmental impact, because they do. You know, the- the batteries, you're basically throwing away a battery with some residual nicotine in it. Um, not good. But more not good is the fact that teachers in the UK have found that, like, a non-insignificant percentage of schoolchildren are dependent on disposable vapes.

   14. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:07

       Okay, so I was gonna say, I don't, there's like, I could see arguments either way. I'm personally, I, as a parent, and I have talked to teachers, I mean, it's insane huge problem in- in, you know, many schools where-

   15. CWChris Williamson14:19

       In the US?

   16. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:20

       Yes, in the US, where-

   17. CWChris Williamson14:21

       Vaping?

   18. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:22

       Vaping in class.

   19. CWChris Williamson14:23

       (laughs)

   20. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:24

       In the bathrooms.

   21. CWChris Williamson14:25

       Yeah, they've installed, uh, special-

   22. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:27

       And- and these are like 12, 13-year-olds.

   23. CWChris Williamson14:28

       ... vape detectors in the bathrooms of, uh, British schools.

   24. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:32

       Yeah, no, it's a problem here too, especially in public schools. And, uh, so I- I personally, like, am biased, and I'm like, good. Like, I don't want these, like, the, it's ter- it's so e- and it's like bubble gum flavored. It's like-

   25. CWChris Williamson14:44

       Yeah.

   26. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:44

       It's like geared towards ch- I almost feel like, is, was there a push to like get them earlier? But you know, uh, so in that regard, I'm- I'm on, I'm on board, to be honest.

   27. CWChris Williamson14:54

       Uh, have you looked into the dangers of vaping much at all? What do you think about that?

   28. RPDr Rhonda Patrick14:57

       I ha- I, you know, I've tweeted a couple studies. I haven't done a deep dive on it. I mean, like, I know there's some, you know, studies about like lung issues, but like, I don't know if it was like contaminants that are hitchhiking in with the vape, you know? So no, I haven't done a deep dive.

   29. CWChris Williamson15:12

       Yeah.

   30. RPDr Rhonda Patrick15:12

       But I do plan on doing a deeper dive into like that world of like nicotine and- and vaping and...
4. 20:19 – 27:24

   Discussing Forms of Intermittent Fasting

   1. CWChris Williamson20:19

      Talk to me about time restricted feeding, because for a long time, that was, like, the hot new girl in school, and everyone loved it, and it was really interesting. But it seems like the trend is swaying at least a little bit away from time restricted feeding, especially on a morning. So what's your... How do you conceptualize all of this now?

   2. RPDr Rhonda Patrick20:38

      Um, so time restricted feeding, or time restricted eating, you know, it, th- it, it's a form of intermittent fasting, right? And I think that many people, when they think about intermittent fasting, they think, "Okay, well, I just need to skip a meal. I need to, like, have a period of... I need to extend my period of time where I'm not eating, and the easiest way to do that is to skip a, skip a meal." Um, and that's kind of what happened. So, you know, S- Dr. Satchin Panda, a good friend of mine, big, you know, circadian biologist researcher, does a lot of research on time restricted feeding, and, um, you know, we talked about this, like, almost 10 years ago. E- e- essentially, there's a circadian reason to eat your food within a certain time window and then have a period of rest and fasting, right? So, everything on our body runs on a clock, and including our metabolism. And, um, you know, so the, so we're most insulin sensitive in the morning, least sensitive ins- uh, s- uh, insulin sensitive in the evening, right? So, you know, your blood glucose levels will go much higher with the same carbohydrate intake in the evening versus the morning, even, you know, just calories are the same, everything's the same. There's also some argument to be made by, you just need a period of rest. Like, your gut, digestion, all that, like, energy is being diverted to do that when you're digesting food. Like, that's, that's a big thing, and there's also a lot of responses that happen after you eat a meal causing inflammation and things like that that divert energy there. So, it's taking energy away from other things like repair. So, so repairing processes that usually happen when you're in a fasted state. So, just like when you're sleeping, your brain shuts down, right? Like, your brain, if you didn't sleep, your brain's not gonna repair, it's not gonna stop. Like, you need that rest period. Well, the same goes for, like, other organs. Like, they need, they need a rest period. And, and so it's really important to have that rest period, right? So, the longer the rest p- it, the longer the rest period is, the better in terms of, like, having enough energy to, like, do those repair processes. Things like that require energy, and there's also, you know, other reasons as well. But generally speaking, um, there's an argument why it's good to have a rest period, a fasting period, right? And is that... Does it need to be 16 hours? Does it need to be 20? Does it need to be 12? Like, I don't, I don't really know that we know the exact time, um, to that. But what we do know is that talking about this to the public was translated to, "I need to skip breakfast." That was, like, the take-home was, "Okay, I need to do a 16-hour... I need to do, eat my food within eight hours and do a 16-hour fast, and the way I'm gonna do that is I'm gonna skip breakfast-"

   3. CWChris Williamson23:16

      Yeah.

   4. RPDr Rhonda Patrick23:16

      "... and keep, extend my fasting period." Right.

   5. CWChris Williamson23:17

      Lunch at 12:00, have dinner at 8:00. Graze between then and-

   6. RPDr Rhonda Patrick23:21

      And that was-

   7. CWChris Williamson23:21

      ... it's hands off.

   8. RPDr Rhonda Patrick23:22

      Exactly. And that was, that was kind of the, the take-home, the practical implication there that everyone started doing. Um, the problem with that is that, you know... So, our muscle is the biggest reservoir for amino acids. Just like, you know, we store glucose as glycogen in our liver and our muscle, we store, um, triglyceride as, you know, f- you know, we... Fat as triglycerides in our adipose tissue. We don't really store musc- I mean, we don't really store amino acids, but you can kind of think of the muscle as a reservoir for it, because when we have a period of, um, basically we're not getting an intake of amino acids, we need it. We need amino acids to survive. Like, we need them. And so, our body pulls from our muscle. So, in the morning, if you think about it, what's the longest period you go without having amino acids? Well, it's when you're sleeping. So breakfast is actually really important. It's in r- it's important to get protein, amino acids in that first meal, because if you extend that mea- if you extend that fasting period by skipping breakfast-... your body's gonna be like, "I need protein. I need- I gotta make a bunch of proteins to, like, have my heart beat and my kidneys function," right? So it's gonna pull amino acids out of your muscle. And so, um, that can cause muscle atrophy, particularly if you're not doing resistance training. So amino acid is one way to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. Um, the other way to do it would be resistance training. So there have been studies done, like for example, women that are doing time-restricted feeding, they will not lose muscle mass if they're doing resistance training.

   9. CWChris Williamson24:55

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RPDr Rhonda Patrick24:56

       So-

   11. CWChris Williamson24:56

       Does it mitigate the gains of resistance training by doing that?

   12. RPDr Rhonda Patrick25:02

       It mitigates the- the atrophy, so it- it's mitigating the-

   13. CWChris Williamson25:06

       No, sorry, does time-restricted feeding, i.e. skipping breakfast, limit the gains made from resistance training if both of those things are done together?

   14. RPDr Rhonda Patrick25:15

       N- not, not if you're getting enough protein. I mean, it- not in that study, at least.

   15. CWChris Williamson25:18

       Understood.

   16. RPDr Rhonda Patrick25:19

       I think- I think if you're not getting enough protein within a 24-hour period, yes. But, like, if you're getting... So- so th- to get your gains in, and I'm sure you've had people on talking about this, but like, the RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight. And that was, like, determined, like, forever ago when we were using older techniques, we as in scientists, not me, 'cause I haven't personally done this experiment, but, um, the scientific community was using techniques that, uh, underestimated amino acid losses. So- so these committees were set up to determine, okay, how many- how much amino acids d- you know, h- what quantity of amino acids do we lose every day? And how much do we make sure we have to get each day to replenish that, right? Um, and so those losses were underestimated. In other words, we're losing more than they thought. And so what- what does that mean? That means, oh, maybe we're- the RDA for protein is too low. So people like Dr. Stuart Phillips and others have now redone these experiments with like newer, more sensitive technologies, because that's what happens with time, right? We get better technologies, more sensitivity, and they've now determined that it's actually 1.2 grams per kilogram to just bare minimum prevent losses and if you're doing-

   17. CWChris Williamson26:30

       So another 50% on top of what was originally-

   18. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:32

       50% on what- on originally, and if you're actually doing phy- if you're physically active, if you're doing resistance training, that goes up to 1.6-

   19. CWChris Williamson26:38

       Wow.

   20. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:39

       ... grams per kilogram of body weight.

   21. CWChris Williamson26:39

       That's the minimum?

   22. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:41

       And, well, 1.2 is the minimum-

   23. CWChris Williamson26:42

       Yeah.

   24. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:42

       ... but like, to like build muscle-

   25. CWChris Williamson26:44

       Yeah.

   26. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:44

       ... to get the gains you're talking about.

   27. CWChris Williamson26:45

       Mm-hmm.

   28. RPDr Rhonda Patrick26:46

       And there's actually been studies done in older adults, this is a big problem, older adults are- they're not as sensitive to amino acids. It's called anabolic resistance, so with the same protein intake they won't build as much muscle if they're 65 versus when they were 30.

   29. CWChris Williamson27:00

       So granddad needs to be cooking twice as many steaks, basically?

   30. RPDr Rhonda Patrick27:02

       He needs twice as many steaks, and there have been studies looking at the actual RDA of older adults get 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight, and then the other group gets 1.2 grams per kilogram body weight. The group that got 1.2 has much higher muscle mass gains.
5. 27:24 – 42:07

   How to Incorporate Time-Restricted Eating Into Daily Life

   1. CWChris Williamson27:24

      getting back to the time-restricted-

   2. RPDr Rhonda Patrick27:25

      Yes.

   3. CWChris Williamson27:25

      ... eating thing.

   4. RPDr Rhonda Patrick27:27

      Yes.

   5. CWChris Williamson27:29

      How should someone incorporate this into their lifestyle? W- what it sounds like you're saying is have a high protein meal at some point early in the day, uh, but if you're also saying that it's important for us to have a period of rest and digest, so that it's digest, rest, and repair can actually happen, how should people think about- about doing that? Especially given the fact that, sorry, later in the day, insulin sensitivity is, uh, skewed. Anyone that did carb night or carb backloading 15 years ago because they read a bodybuilding.com forum like me knows that. So you've kind of got this, oh, it's good to eat some things later in the day, there's this skew down that way, but there's also we can't miss breakfast, so it's like that just sounds like eating all day to me. When do we- when do we stop?

   6. RPDr Rhonda Patrick28:16

      Right. Um, yeah, sorry, I went off on a tangent there, but yeah. So, um, the- the- the time-restricted eating, okay, there's like- there's a couple good ways to think abou- about it. You wanna stop eating about three hours before you go to bed, if possible, okay?

   7. CWChris Williamson28:29

      That's last bit of food in mouth?

   8. RPDr Rhonda Patrick28:31

      Yes. Yes, because it's d- you gotta add another five m- so last bit of- bit of food in mouth doesn't mean I'm now in a fasted state. You gotta calculate five hours after that. It takes about five hours to digest, okay? So after- the five hours after your last bit of food in mouth, now you're in a fasted state, right? So that's gonna be when you're sleeping most likely. Um, you don't have to skip a meal. You can eat your food within an eight-hour period and fast for 16 hours without having to skip a meal most of the time. Unless, I guess unless you're an entertainer and your meals do come later, then- but still- you can still, like- everything's just shifted over. And yes, you'll be, you know, less insulin sen- insulin sensitive later in the day, but you can, like, do some air squats for two minutes. Like you could- there are- there- there are things you can do to improve insulin sensitivity and also to improve glucose- blood glucose levels, like later in the evening if you're having a meal and we can talk more about that later. But anyway, so there are things you can do. I think that the way to think about it is- the easy way is to- to stop eating about three hours before bed. That's a really easy... And also your sleep improves 'cause you're- when you're digesting, if you eat like right before you go to bed, your body's like awake. It's like awake, right? It's like digesting and using energy, it's- it's not-

   9. CWChris Williamson29:46

      Well, even beyond what's happening physiologically, just this sense of being full. So I was a club promoter for 15 years, which meant that we would work from- uh, we'd set the club up at 9:00 PM and we'd finish at 2:00 in the morning, and I'd get back and the food that I'd prepped that morning, the day before's morning, would be there waiting for me. Ah, well, you know, I haven't eaten in six hours, seven hours, something like that. Okay, so I'll get in and I'll eat, but just the discomfort of having a lot of food in you, like even that sucks, right?

   10. RPDr Rhonda Patrick30:14

       Right.

   11. CWChris Williamson30:15

       Uh...

   12. RPDr Rhonda Patrick30:16

       And, you know, the other thing is with- with, uh, thinking about it, I think, um, a lot of y- people got all like, you know, in a tizzy over- over the fact that, like, if you looked at the- the time-restricted feeding-... and the weight loss, a lot of the weight loss was due to caloric restriction because people were just actually eating less. They were skipping meals.

   13. CWChris Williamson30:34

       Yeah.

   14. RPDr Rhonda Patrick30:34

       And it's like, yeah. So a lot of weight loss, I mean, when it comes to weight loss, like calories in, calories out matter. Like energy balance, right? So that's important. I think that's where a lot of people were like, "Oh, time-restricted eating doesn't matter because it's all about caloric restriction." And it's like, well, yeah, if you're looking at... What endpoint are you looking at? Are you trying to lose weight? Then you get caloric restriction. Like you should be not eating as much.

   15. CWChris Williamson30:55

       Get there however you want.

   16. RPDr Rhonda Patrick30:56

       Right. And most people that are, like, obese, even overweight, they can actually, they can actually fast and not lose as much muscle. Like some people will go on a fast or do, you know, limit their... Uh, they'll skip meals basically, and they can lose like up to 30% of their weight will come from muscle. So, you know-

   17. CWChris Williamson31:14

       That's crazy.

   18. RPDr Rhonda Patrick31:14

       It's crazy. Unless you do resistance training, and resistance training is important.

   19. CWChris Williamson31:17

       Which will mitigate that?

   20. RPDr Rhonda Patrick31:18

       Which will mitigate that.

   21. CWChris Williamson31:19

       But presumably, only if you're having sufficient protein outside of that intermittent fasting window?

   22. RPDr Rhonda Patrick31:24

       Not necessarily. Um, that will help you gain more, but like mitigating the atrophy because-

   23. CWChris Williamson31:29

       You've got the stimulus.

   24. RPDr Rhonda Patrick31:30

       ... you got the stimulus.

   25. CWChris Williamson31:31

       Okay. What would you suggest as a good selection of breakfasts that people could have that kind of meet the criteria that you're talking about here? What would be some of the things?

   26. RPDr Rhonda Patrick31:43

       I think eggs. Right? Eggs would be like, like four, depending on your body weight, f- you know, some, if you're, if you're a dude, you're probably gonna have more like five eggs. Scrambled eggs are great. You've got, I mean, it's got the protein, and eggs are really high, and they have like lutein and choline in them. And choline is important for brain function. Um, lutein is much higher in greens like kale, but there's some in at least pasture-raised eggs, farm, the, the farm, you know, the non-conventional eggs or whatever they're called. Those are terrible. Um, but-

   27. CWChris Williamson32:11

       Wha- what is there t- just to interject that, what is there to know about eggs? How do you select your eggs?

   28. RPDr Rhonda Patrick32:16

       Pasture raised, um, because you want them to eat like grass and stuff, the chickens, because they're get- they're getting like lutein from the greens, and lutein is really important for brain function and eye function. I would love to talk about that more when we talk about cognitive function because it actually... There's like a lot... There's not enough lutein in an egg to substitute what's done in clinical studies, but there is in kale. So, uh, but still, it's good to get a source of it. So I think e- I think eggs is a really good source of, um, protein for breakfast-

   29. CWChris Williamson32:46

       Mm-hmm.

   30. RPDr Rhonda Patrick32:46

       ... because it's, you know, it's just... It's very nutrient-dense with choline as well. Choline is really high in egg yolk.
6. 42:07 – 48:11

   How Important Are Leafy Greens?

   1. RPDr Rhonda Patrick42:07

      high in spinach.

   2. CWChris Williamson42:08

      Okay, so leafy greens-

   3. RPDr Rhonda Patrick42:09

      Yeah.

   4. CWChris Williamson42:09

      ... important.

   5. RPDr Rhonda Patrick42:10

      Yes. Um, okay, then you wanna get B vitamins. Again, folate is a B vitamin, but getting, getting, uh, B vitamins, zinc, um, also you wanna get iron. These are also important micronutrients, you know, minerals. That's where you get the meat, right? So red meat for the iron and protein, B vitamins, it's got zinc, um, as well. Poultry is another option, right? So these are good sources of, um, protein and other micronutrients that you're not gonna get as much from plants.

   6. CWChris Williamson42:42

      What are you thinking about when it comes to sourcing and choosing your meats?

   7. RPDr Rhonda Patrick42:47

      Uh, yeah, so there's been some studies that have compared like grass-fed...... cows versus- like, meat from grass-fed cows versus, like, conventionally raised cows. And I would say the biggest difference is, a- at least from the data that's been published, is, you know, for one, the omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acid profile. So- which makes sense. If you're, if you're feeding a cow a bunch of corn, and I think they li- also have, like, it's, like, corn oil, like, pelleted, and you know, it's like, they're gonna have a higher omega-6 profile, right? They're gonna have more omega-6 'cause that's corn. Um, versus if you're gonna give them, like, plants, they're gonna eat plants, they're gonna have a better omega-3 to omega-6 profile. And so- and that's exactly what you'll find. So like, even though meat isn't, like, the best source of omega-3, if you get- if you're, if you're eating, you know, ground beef or a steak from a cow that was, you know, pasture-raised, it's gonna have a higher omega-3 profile than, than the conventional meat. And there's, you know, I- there's some, there's some argument to be made for that. It's like, well... And then, there's also things like, well, you know, what- you have to think about, like, what food, um, is there? Is it like, are they given food that's, that's doused in glyphosate? Like, I don't know. Like, what's, you know, how- the cr- the corn crop is like, that's how they're growing lots of corn, right? So, you know, there's- you can sort of obsess over everything. You have to, like- I think you have to sort of choose your battles. Otherwise, you can just go insane. So, you know, there- do, do you have to eat pasture-raised meat? I don't know that you do. If you can, it's better. Like, not everyone can afford- like, food is so expensive now too, right? So, at the end of the day, like, our bodies can handle a lot of damage. They really can. But like, that is only if you give them the things they need to repair that damage and be able to, like, be, you know, more, more optimally functional. So, um, that's kind of my, my take on the, the, you know, pasture-raised versus conventional. I personally do get pasture-raised. I prefer it. Also, the hormones. If they're not- I think generally speaking, they go hand in hand. They, like, you know, they'll give hormones and antibiotics to cows and stuff, and it's like, "Oh, do I, do I want a bunch of antibiotics in my meat that I'm eating?" Right? Like, that's another thing to consider.

   8. CWChris Williamson45:03

      What do people mean when they talk about prioritizing energy balance? I hear this-

   9. RPDr Rhonda Patrick45:07

      Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson45:07

       ... and I don't- I have no idea what they're talking about.

   11. RPDr Rhonda Patrick45:09

       Calorie- I mean, I think ultimately, they're, they're, they're calories in, calories out kind of thing. Like, you know, if you're, if you're consuming, like, a ton of calories and you're not physically active, like, that's- you're gonna start storing more fat. Like, it's, you know, just simple math (laughs) .

   12. CWChris Williamson45:29

       Math (laughs) . Yeah. Yep.

   13. RPDr Rhonda Patrick45:29

       So that's, I would say, the easiest way to think about it-

   14. CWChris Williamson45:32

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RPDr Rhonda Patrick45:32

       ... um, is, is really just calories in, calories out really does matter. Like, it really does. Like, you're gonna... You know, so you don't wanna just eat t- eat tons and tons of food. Like, you don't want to eat a b- bag of potato chips, like, after you do your Peloton.

   16. CWChris Williamson45:44

       Yeah, and I guess, going back to one of the reasons why intermittent fasting was so popular was that it's- you don't really need to be as obsessive with your MyFitnessPal if you only have a six-hour eating window, because for lots of people, it's tough to get over surplus during just six hours, as long as you're eating whole foods mostly, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Uh-

   17. RPDr Rhonda Patrick46:06

       And that's what it comes down to. I think exactly that, is that if, like, the peop- th- they're, they're calorically restricting naturally when they're doing intermittent fasting, right? And so, that's why it was- it, it all comes down to calories in, calories out. That's what caloric restriction is. You're restricting. You're not eating as many calories, and you end up, you know, losing weight. But if you eat whole foods- and I really do think, like, the paleo movement back in, when- I mean, it was like h- 15, 20 years ag- I don't even know how long ago it was.

   18. CWChris Williamson46:33

       Yeah.

   19. RPDr Rhonda Patrick46:33

       But they were onto something. I think that's a really good way to eat, because you're not just only eating meat. You're not just only eating plants. You're getting the broad spectrum of micronutrients, and there's other things in plants that are, like, phytochemicals that are beneficial as well, right? So it's not just getting the micronutrients. It's also getting these other, you know, c- chemicals that are, like, doing beneficial things in us that we know for sure, from randomized controlled trials, are doing beneficial things. So, you know, that's another added reason to kind of have a more diverse whole foods type of diet.

   20. CWChris Williamson47:06

       We'll get back to talking to Rhonda in one minute, but first, I need to tell you about Momentous. You might have heard me say that I took my testosterone from 495 to 1,006, and two of the supplements I used throughout that were Fadogia Agrestis and Tongkat Ali. I first heard Andrew Huberman talk about the really impressive effects that these have on testosterone. But the problem is most supplements don't actually contain what they say. Momentous make the only NSF-certified Fadogia Agrestis and Tongkat Ali in the world, meaning that even Olympians can use it, because that is the level of testing that these products are put through. Also, if you're looking for a great supply of omega-3s that Dr. Rhonda Patrick's just been talking about, they also do that too. Best of all, there is a 30-day money-back guarantee, so you can buy everything completely risk-free, try it for 29 days, and if you do not like it, they will give you your money back, no questions asked. Right now, you can get a 20% discount off everything site-wide, including all of the products I use and recommend by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemomentous.com/modernwisdom and using the code MODERNWISDOM at checkout. That's livemomentous.com/modernwisdom. What

7. 48:11 – 1:00:27

   The Biggest Movers for Cognitive Function

   1. CWChris Williamson48:11

      are the most important things to consider when it comes to improving cognitive function? A lot of people want better focus, they want to be more productive, they want to improve their mood, they want to do all of those things. Like, what are the big movers when we think cognitive function?

   2. RPDr Rhonda Patrick48:27

      So there's what I like to think of as there's definitely big movers, there's things that require effort, and there's, like, lower hanging fruit, right? So this is things that, like, you could take a supplement perhaps. And I would say the big movers are the ones that, of course, are gonna require more effort. Like, that's always how it is, right? And it- it's pretty clear now, I don't think- I think it's pretty s- scientific consensus that exercise, and particularly vigorous exercise, is one of the best ways that you can get a cognitive enhancement. You know, memory, executive function, processing speed. So there have been studies that have been done in older adults, in middle-aged adults, in children, like, across the lifespan, and it's just undeniable that-... getting your heart rate up s- you know, getting, getting your heart rate up and blood flow up, and sweating is going to make you smarter, and feel better. It's gonna make you both. So, um, like there was, there was even one study that was done in older adults, and this was like a classic study that I, I just remem- I talked about it for years, but other studies have, like, repeated it since then. But it was like 2011 or 20, 2012, published in PNAS, and, um, this, these researchers took these older adults and they put 'em on a year-long intervention exercise program. And there was a lot of, um, more vigorous intensity, so they're getting up to about 80% max heart rate, 75, 80% max heart rate. And, um, for one year they did this intervention, um, and after that year, they had an, a 2% increase in their hippocampal volume. So, hippocampus is a part of your brain that's highly involved in learning and memory, and they had increased it by, like, 2%. So, people that it, in that age group lose between 1 to 2% of their hippocampal volume per year. So, they essentially countered that loss, that atrophy that they're, they're age-related, you know, experiencing each year. And, um, and so part of the reason that happens is when you're doing a vigorous type of exercise, you are increasing brain-derived neurotrophic factor, BDNF, and that is responsible for growing new neurons in the hippocampus. It's responsible for neuroplasticity. So, that's the ability of your brain to, like, adapt and change to the changing environment, which is what older adults don't do very well, right? Your, your brain's much more plastic when it's younger, like you can adapt to things. That's why that saying, "You c- it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks," right? I mean, that's kind of where it comes from. So, BDNF plays a role in that. So, you want more BDNF, like you, and exercise, and particularly vigorous exercise. If you're working your muscles so hard that they can't get oxygen to them fast enough, and that's why I say vigorous, um, then they're forced to basically make energy without oxygen, and that happens by just using glucose. And then, you make lactate as a byproduct, and lactate is what is signaling an increase in that BDNF. And lactate's really... I mean, you can measure it. There's, you know, things out there that you can buy and measure it. But I don't think you need to. I think you can just measure your heart rate, and if you're getting, if you're doing a vigorous intensity exercise, 10 minutes, that's all it took was 10 minutes to have improvements in cognition, uh, executive function, processing speed. So, even just a 10-minute workout, and, like I did one before I was, came here. Like, that's, like, that's my thing I do. You know, it's like I want, I wanna be on top of my game. So, you just can do a 10-minute, you know, workout. It could be high-intensity interval training, where you're shifting between periods of vigorous exercise and then kinda re- resting a little bit, and then so you do these intervals. Or, it could just be like, "I'm gonna do a 20-minute, like, uh, run, and then I'm gonna go, you know? I'm gonna do it." So, um-

   3. CWChris Williamson51:56

      Exercise.

   4. RPDr Rhonda Patrick51:57

      Exercise is the number one, I would say, big mover, as you said. It's also the most, requires the most effort. The other things, and this is where I kind of, like... I'm smiling because there was very recently a new study, um, one out of three very large randomized placebo-controlled trials where they're giving one group a placebo and another group a multivitamin. Okay? This is a multivitamin, which is s- the micronutrients I've been talking about, magnesium, B vitamins, folate, uh, vitamin K. It's just stuff people aren't getting enough of, they're not getting enough from their diets. And, um, they gave older adults, so these were people that were 65 and older, and, um, there was three different trials of this study. It was called the COSMO Trial, and there was about 5,000 participants in total. And the evidence was clear that just giving them a multivitamin improved cognition, and it slowed brain aging, which was a key. It w- it was estimated to slow brain aging by about two years. And I, this is, like, it's so, it's, it's funny because c- 10 years ago, I was, like, doing... I was out there podca- talk, you know, talking on podcasts about huge studies that were coming out saying, "Enough is enough. Multivitamins are a waste of money. Don't buy them." And they were saying the exact opposite, and they were terrible studies, and I, like, tore them apart. Uh, but here we are, 10 years later, complete opposite.

   5. CWChris Williamson53:19

      Full circle, baby.

   6. RPDr Rhonda Patrick53:19

      Full circle. What's the easiest thing you can do? Like, does that mean a young person can take a multivitamin that's gonna immediately make them... You know, I, probably not.

   7. CWChris Williamson53:27

      Add 20 IQ points.

   8. RPDr Rhonda Patrick53:28

      But it's insurance... Yeah, it's, it's something that you can start now, and certainly older adults, it made a difference. So, that- that's one.

   9. CWChris Williamson53:34

      Mm-hmm.

   10. RPDr Rhonda Patrick53:34

       Um, another one is, again, I mentioned that there's other, these phytochemicals in plants that are beneficial. They're in vegetables, and they're in fruits. So, blueberries, yeah, blueberry extract or even the equivalent of one cup of blueberries, this has been done. Like, the equivalent of one cup of blueberries improves cognition, executive function. It incl- it improves, uh, memory, um, also processing speed. So, that's something, like if you're, like, you know, uh, fast reaction time... I guess it's more relevant for, like, maybe someone who's athletic, but, you know, h- fine motor coordination, things like that. Um, multiple studies showing this. I mean, there's been meta-analyses showing it. This is across the lifespan. There's been studies in kids. There've been s- there've been studies in middle-aged adults, and there's been studies in older adults, and it's clear. Blueberries make you smarter, and they make you feel better, least they make me feel better. So, um-

   11. CWChris Williamson54:28

       Blueberry's the king of fruits. I think... I mean, it's between blueberries, raspberries, and pineapple, I think, for, like, the top spot in my world of fruits.

   12. RPDr Rhonda Patrick54:36

       Blueberries. Blueberries.

   13. CWChris Williamson54:37

       Yeah?

   14. RPDr Rhonda Patrick54:37

       Yeah. No, blueberries are... So, they have something in 'em called anthocyanins, and it's what gives the blueberries their, like, pigmentation. Raspberries have them too. Blueberries are very concentrated th- in them. Um, they also have... So, anthocyanins are a type of polyphenol. They're actually a flavonoid. They're a type of polyphenol. Polyphenols are a, a, a sort of wide class of phytochemicals, and phytochemicals, there's a lot of them, lots of different types of them. And they really are beneficial in humans. And like I said, there's randomized controlled trials comparing giving this to, to a placebo. And if it was bad for you, then it would be clear, right? It's good for you.

   15. CWChris Williamson55:13

       Mm-hmm.

   16. RPDr Rhonda Patrick55:14

       So, uh, blueberries are, are, are at the top of the list for that, uh, for improving cognitive function. Low-hanging fruit, how easy is it to eat a cup of blueberries a day? I eat two a day.

   17. CWChris Williamson55:21

       It's literally hard to not eat a cup of blueberries a day.

   18. RPDr Rhonda Patrick55:23

       It's hard not to, yeah. So, that, that would be another one. Um, I think another one on my list would be... similar to that would be cocoa polyphenals, so, like, from, from, like, dark chocolate.... um, they have another type of polyphenol called catechins. And, um, the best one... So there have been studies, lots of studies on this, and it- it's mixed on this, so some studies have shown benefits. They increase blood flow to the brain. They increase, you know, vascular flow. So you can get an immediate effect, where, you know, if you increase blood flow to the brain, which is what exercise does, right? But we're talking low-hanging fruits, easy to do, take a pill. That would be, um, something to do. It is- it's- it's improved cognition, executive function. And there's a type called CocoaVia. And I have no affiliation with them, but they've published their... They- they have studies published with their, um, proprietary blend, which is, again, um, one of the highest concentrated, I would say, cocoa, uh, flavanols out there, the catechins. Consumer Labs tested them, and I've seen, I've seen the data. It's- it's very clear, they're very high in- in- in... The- they just out-compete all the other brands out there, and they also have the lowest contaminants. So they're really, uh, a good but expensive way to get those cocoa flavanols, which are really good. And then the other one would be, for cognition, would be lutein, which I mentioned earlier. It's in egg yolks, not very concentrated. It's in kale, very highly concentrated in kale. Almost 24 milligrams in three kale leaves. And I say three kale leaves 'cause that's what I put in my smoothie.

   19. CWChris Williamson56:53

       Mm-hmm.

   20. RPDr Rhonda Patrick56:53

       So I've calculated it. But, um, so there's 24 milligrams of lutein. So lutein is a type of carotenoid like beta-carotene, like lycopene in tomatoes. You've heard of those things before. Well, lutein is in that same category. It is a carotenoid. It accumulates in the rods and the cones of your eye. It protects against singlet oxygen from blue light, like this light we're looking at, and also the sunshine when you go outside. That damages our eyes. It causes macular degeneration. And so lutein and zeaxanthin is another carotenoid, they're in greens, and they protect against that. But they also accumulate in the brain. And, um, there have been a variety of studies, so there's been observational studies correlating plasma levels of lutein and zeaxanthin with certain cognitive scores, so like cris- crystallized intelligence. Older adults that have lutein and zeaxanthin higher levels have more crystallized intelligence, so that's the ability to use all the information you learned over a lifetime and like use it. (laughs) Um, there's been randomized controlled trials looking at giving eight milligrams of lutein, now I said 24 is in three kales, so they give eight milligrams of lutein and something like 23 milligrams of zeaxanthin to older adults, and it improves neural, neural efficiency. So this is the ability to... Basically, your- your neurons can function with less energy, which is nice. So that obviously improves cognitive function 'cause it's- it's a very energy demanding process. So, so lutein, uh, is another one-

   21. CWChris Williamson58:22

       You haven't mentioned choline. Yeah, I know it's in eggs.

   22. RPDr Rhonda Patrick58:24

       Choline, yeah.

   23. CWChris Williamson58:25

       You know, cholinergics, generally very important for brain function.

   24. RPDr Rhonda Patrick58:29

       It is, yeah, it's- it's an important, um, it's important for brain... And there's been studies actually, um, with pregnant women. If you give pregnant women about 500 milligrams of choline per day, their children score better on intel- um, the-

   25. CWChris Williamson58:47

       (laughs) No way.

   26. RPDr Rhonda Patrick58:47

       ... intelligence tests. Yes.

   27. CWChris Williamson58:49

       Oh my God.

   28. RPDr Rhonda Patrick58:49

       So, so I learned about this, of course, when I was pregnant, and I was like... Well, it was actually before I was pregnant, but I was like figuring out, like, what I'm gonna do, like, "What do I need?"

   29. CWChris Williamson58:56

       Yup.

   30. RPDr Rhonda Patrick58:56

       And that's why I- I ate so many eggs during pregnancy, because... I also supplemented, but-
8. 1:00:27 – 1:14:08

   What Actually is Brain Fog?

   1. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:00:27

   2. CWChris Williamson1:00:27

      What happens when people get brain fog? Like what i- what is, what is brain fog? I know what it feels like, but like what's- what's going on?

   3. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:00:34

      Um, yeah. So brain fog, or as I like to call it, uh, a reduction in mental clarity. Um, when I say that-

   4. CWChris Williamson1:00:42

      (laughs) That's such a doctor way of re- (laughs) you know, like-

   5. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:00:44

      I've just heard too many, like, people say, like, "Brain fog, brain fog," like, and it's just... I- I got, like, this, like, I was telling you, I got this knee jerk reaction to like when I-

   6. CWChris Williamson1:00:52

      You've got brain fog ich.

   7. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:00:53

      I do. When people, like, say, "Brain fog," I'll be like, "Oh no, what are they gonna say?" You know. But yes, it is a thing. So it's, um, you know, when- when you have a reduction in a mental clarity, it feels like this brain fog. And, you know, there... I personally think it all comes down to food. I think it really comes down to food. And I mean, when you're sick, you have brain fog, but we can talk about how it overlaps with that. So, I think there's really two big... It- it all has to do with meals and- and- and eating. Um, so the first thing I think that's highly involved in this reduction in mental clarity or brain fog, as people like to call it.... is what's called the postprandial glucose response. So, that means blood glucose levels going up after a meal. And, um, what happens is this, if you have a really high postprandial glucose response, you're eating a high-glycemic index food, something that's definitely like a refined carbohydrate, for example, that'll really smash you.

   8. CWChris Williamson1:01:49

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:01:50

      Um, you're gonna get this really sharp peak in glucose, and then like a drop and, or a sugar crash, as people like to call it. Um, and so, y- it's really hard for your brain to, to be functioning properly with that postprandial glucose response. And that's partly why you'll hear a lot of anecdotes and, myself included, people that have tried a ketogenic diet, or I used to always like to do podcasts on a fa- in a fasted state, because, um, you're not getting that postprandial glucose response is one thing. It, it really sort of, it, it's-

   10. CWChris Williamson1:02:24

       Evens it out.

   11. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:02:24

       ... evens it out.

   12. CWChris Williamson1:02:25

       Yep.

   13. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:02:26

       Not everyone responds well to a ketogenic diet, and I certainly, uh, don't think it's easy to continue on forever. So, there are other things. Um, obviously ref- avoiding refined carbohydrates is, uh, is an easy no-brainer, right? There's nothing in there anyways. What do you need from there? Nothing. No micronutrients, no protein, right? Like, you're not getting anything from that. So, that would be one thing to avoid, because that'll make sure you're not going super, super high. But you can still have it, um, from, from a, from a meal, and, um, some of the things that you can do to mitigate that, one would be exercise snacks. So, this is like doing a really short burst of intense, like vigorous exercise, 80% max heart rate, for like one to three minutes. And you do it 30 minutes or up, 30 minutes up to an hour, either before or after a meal. So, you kinda do it within this hour before or after a meal. And what happens is, that vigorous intensity exercise while you're, you know, shooting your heart rate up, you know, and it's, it's hard to do, you're ma- you're increasing lactate, and it doesn't take much. It gets soaked up by the muscle, and this is then, um, causing transporters, glucose transporters to come up to the muscle, and it's opening the gates basically.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:03:35

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:03:35

       So that when you eat that meal, the glucose goes into your muscle, it's more anabolic, you want it to go there. And it's not, you're not getting that like huge rise and then drop in the post, with the postprandial glucose response.

   16. CWChris Williamson1:03:47

       Okay.

   17. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:03:47

       So, that would be the one thing. Exercise snacks.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:03:49

       Yep.

   19. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:03:49

       Lots of studies out there, especially with people with type 2 diabetes have a problem, you know, maintaining their blood glucose levels. The second thing would be food order. Like, the order you eat your macronutrients.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:04:02

       On the plate?

   21. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:04:04

       Kind of. So, so, uh, I would say about 10 minutes, it c- it can be on the plate depending on how slow you eat. So, if, so food order, um, there's been studies, again, largely in people with type 2 diabetes who have issues regulating their blood glucose, if you eat protein or fat 10 to 30 minutes before carbohydrates, it can very much blunt and slow the postprandial glucose response. So, if you have like, let's say, you eat a can of sardines before you're gonna go to a restaurant, you're gonna eat out.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:04:39

       Mm.

   23. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:04:39

       You're presumably gonna eat more terribly than you would if you were cooking at home, right? Or you do a little protein shake 20 minutes before you're gonna go-

   24. CWChris Williamson1:04:47

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:04:47

       ... to a restaurant or whatever. And that'll, or, or before like even just if you're gonna do a podcast and you need m- mental clarity, you wanna make sure that, let's say, just eat the protein and, and not have the, the carbohydrates, right? Um, so what that does is it's, I mean, it's doing essentially like increasing insulin so that when you do have that glucose, it's going.

   26. CWChris Williamson1:05:08

       It's prepped.

   27. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:05:08

       It's prepped.

   28. CWChris Williamson1:05:09

       But I mean, if you were, if you were going out for dinner, presumably something else you could do is try and have the starter be a steak tartare, tuna tartare, oysters, something like that, and just be like, "Can we just wait an extra 10 minutes on mains? Like, however long you think that we need, just give us another 10?" And then you've encapsulated it within the, the entire meal. I guess, as long as everybody else is on board with that. Otherwise, someone's had a bunch of bread and they're just, they want their whatever main course to come out. But-

   29. RPDr Rhonda Patrick1:05:37

       But see that, they should, that's like the worst thing is having the bread on the table first, right?

   30. CWChris Williamson1:05:41

       Yeah. But it's so good.

Episode duration: 2:57:42