The Neuroscience Of The 7 Deadly Sins | Dr Jack Lewis | Modern Wisdom Podcast 182

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Be careful who you…

   1. JLDr Jack Lewis0:00

      Be careful who you envy because quite often the people that people typically envy project success and that everything's great, but actually behind the scenes, are they really great? Is life really as gravy when they're back home? Quite often it's not the case, but we don't look into the backstory behind these people. There's loads and loads of people in the public eye who, when they roll out on stage, when they roll out in the studio in front of the lights and the TV cameras, they put, they put on a face that just exudes success. But actually behind the scenes, they've got a crushing, horrible existence, um, that they carefully hide from everyone. (airplane flying)

   2. CWChris Williamson0:37

      We're talking about sin today, all the, all the sins. How are you? Are you sinful today? Are you feeling sinful?

   3. JLDr Jack Lewis0:44

      No, I've been, I've been pretty virtuous, to be honest. I mean, lockdown sort of, uh, stops people going out and doing things that might get them in trouble, so I've been boringly virtuous.

   4. CWChris Williamson0:58

      How sinful can you be during a pandemic, you know?

   5. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03

      (laughs) Yeah, I mean that, uh, if you, if you take the drop-in A&E, um, visits, uh, it's just, you, you let, you can't even hurt yourself if you stay indoors.

   6. CWChris Williamson1:13

      (laughs)

   7. JLDr Jack Lewis1:14

      (laughs)

   8. CWChris Williamson1:14

      You put those little foam cups on all the sharp edges in your house.

   9. JLDr Jack Lewis1:18

      Exactly.

   10. CWChris Williamson1:19

       And you make sure that you take the steps carefully. That's it.

   11. JLDr Jack Lewis1:22

       And particularly during the period where the DIY shops were closed, it's like, I mean, how's anyone gonna chop their finger off on a bank holiday if they can't go and buy a scalpel?

   12. CWChris Williamson1:31

       Limes.

   13. JLDr Jack Lewis1:32

       Not a scalpel, a standing- a standing lime.

   14. CWChris Williamson1:33

       Cutting limes for mojitos, that's how.

   15. JLDr Jack Lewis1:36

       (laughs)

   16. CWChris Williamson1:37

       That's how you do it. Um, so talking about sin-

   17. JLDr Jack Lewis1:40

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson1:40

       ...The Science of Sin, your new book.

   19. JLDr Jack Lewis1:42

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson1:42

       Science of Sin: Why We Do the Things We Know We Shouldn't.

   21. JLDr Jack Lewis1:47

       Mm-hmm.

   22. CWChris Williamson1:47

       So why, why do we do the things that we know that we shouldn't?

   23. JLDr Jack Lewis1:51

       Because we're human.

   24. CWChris Williamson1:54

       Okay. I-

   25. JLDr Jack Lewis1:54

       Too short an answer? (laughs)

   26. CWChris Williamson1:55

       No, I mean, it's just, it's just a, it's a longer book than that.

   27. JLDr Jack Lewis1:58

       (laughs)

   28. CWChris Williamson1:59

       It's, it's, there's loads of words, loads of pages in this.

   29. JLDr Jack Lewis2:01

       No, it's, um, it's, you know what? I'm usually very wordy, so I've, I've, my New Year's resolution is to be more concise. That was perhaps too concise. No, so h- the thing is humans are driven by instincts, um, amongst other things, and those instincts, if you take the ones that are covered by the seven deadly sins, the important thing to remember is if you were to abolish any of those seven things, it, it would be curtains for humanity. We need a modicum of all of the seven deadly sins, um, in, in order to function properly as individuals, as communities. It's just when th- any of those seven categories of behavior go to excess that they are, uh, at its core, antisocial. Now, I'm, I'm not a religious person. Um, I spent a lot of time sort of singing hymns at school because both my primary and secondary school were Church of England, but I, I didn't really believe a word of it. I just thought, you know, I, I was always more inclined to sort of the scientific approach. Let's look at the evidence. If there's evidence to support it, you know, more evidence to support it than to refute a hypothesis, then you, you, you know, you believe accordingly. But with, I don't know, there was so much stuff in the Bible that was sort of clearly outdated that I thought, "How can people still buy into this?" Like, I realize it gives people a lot of, um, hope and it gives them a sense of community, but, but the, the concept of believing like a literal interpretation of the Bible in a post-enlightenment time, it just seemed bonkers.

   30. CWChris Williamson3:34

       Mm-hmm.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   (laughs) …

   1. JLDr Jack Lewis15:00

      no man is an island, and I think what we don't realize is the degree to which friends aren't just nice to have, they are absolutely essential to our well-being. And that's not about having 500, you know, friends on social media. Y- you can have one or two really reliable mates that you can talk things over with. Like, the human brain generates lots of hypotheses, lots of potential explanations for why things are happening. Some of those notions absolutely start raving bonkers, and you need your mates and your family members or the people around you to reflect back on whether w- the parts of what you're saying then add up and make sense in their objective view, and the parts of what you're saying that are just pie-in-the-sky, you know, bonkers. And that's what people who are socially isolated don't have that, and they end up doing their head in with getting hung up on some of those notions that go round and round in their head. Confirmation bias, they've got no one to sort of push back and, and, and say, "No, no, no. I d- I disagree with that." Like, that's the most useful thing someone can do. It, wh- when, when they honestly say to you, "I disagree completely for the following reasons."

   2. CWChris Williamson16:10

      (laughs)

   3. JLDr Jack Lewis16:11

      Because it makes you aware of a different perspective that we simply... It's very hard to have multiple perspectives when you're looking out of the same pair of eyes and listening through the same pair of ears each day. So, those other people in your life help you to go through all of your notions and beliefs, and sort of, well, hopefully, so long as you're not in an echo chamber of people who all think the same thing-

   4. CWChris Williamson16:32

      Yeah.

   5. JLDr Jack Lewis16:33

      ... um, give you a bit more balance. And, and it's the same thing with this modern wisdom, ancient wisdom. There's a lot of nonsense written in the ancient wisdom. The nice thing about looking at it from the context of modern science is it helps you to separate the wheat from the chaff, you know? It helps you focus in on those pearls of wisdom that were bang on the money. Whereas, like, Plato thought that the brain was just sort of, you know, the, the... They thought that all, the spirit was in the heart and the brain was just a radiator for losing heat, you know?

   6. CWChris Williamson17:00

      (laughs)

   7. JLDr Jack Lewis17:00

      So they might, they might have been good at philosophy, but they got their anatomy completely upside down.

   8. CWChris Williamson17:05

      Anatomy, yeah. They needed to do a little bit of work on that, didn't they?

   9. JLDr Jack Lewis17:09

      So, what I'm saying is like we can't just rely on ancient wisdom, but, but looking at it through the lens of modern science, I think you can start, you know, working out what bits to focus on and, and, and really put your weight behind, uh, and what bits just to, just to let, just to let go, ignore it. Like, I, I worry about people who worry about the fate of their life, sorry, fate of their soul in the afterlife. Because there's a lot of people who, you know, like the Catholic guilt thing, um, people beat themselves up. People are hard on themselves because the expectations of certain people in soci- in the society that, that they're raised in hold them to such, like, high standards, impossibly high standards. Like, the concept of being able to steer clear of the seven deadly sins your whole life is, is, is poppycock, because they, they are driven by fundamental basic human instincts. Like, you know, they're related to the very fundamental instincts that are involved in the drive s- for survival. So, some people are gonna do well at being disciplined, some people are gonna be bad at being disciplined. But I would argue those people who are overly disciplined are missing out on life. They're, they're, they're postponing everything for the afterlife, which may or may not exist. So, why not just make a heaven of life on Earth?

   10. CWChris Williamson18:27

       It's a very good argument, man. I don't know. I mean, increasingly, as I get exposed to books like yours, uh, and more evolutionary psychology, and as I start to wrap my head around how...... we operate and why we are the way we are. Um, the concept of who, but what is natural to us seems to become more and more both clear and muddy at the same time.

   11. JLDr Jack Lewis18:49

       Hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson18:50

       Does that make sense? Like you-

   13. JLDr Jack Lewis18:51

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson18:51

       ... you don't, when you start to strip away ego and predisposition and your, um, the way that you've dealt with your trauma and your, uh, genetic heritage and all this sort of stuff, when you start to strip that away, you're like, "Well, hang on, how much of this do I do before I'm no longer me? But how much of that do I need to get rid of to be more of me?" And again-

   15. JLDr Jack Lewis19:10

       Hmm.

   16. CWChris Williamson19:10

       ... Seneca's got this concept which is called the virtuous mean and it's, uh, not a vice of excess nor a vice of, uh, uh...

   17. JLDr Jack Lewis19:20

       Too little?

   18. CWChris Williamson19:20

       Yeah, whatever under, like, not enough. And-

   19. JLDr Jack Lewis19:23

       Denial or something. Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson19:24

       That middle section.

   21. JLDr Jack Lewis19:25

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson19:25

       That middle bit, right? That's what we're, we're kind of touching on today. So let's, let's get into them. Pride first thing. Pride.

   23. JLDr Jack Lewis19:32

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson19:33

       Isn't pride a good thing? I want to have pri-... I've done something well, shouldn't have-

   25. JLDr Jack Lewis19:36

       You should be proud of yourself.

   26. CWChris Williamson19:37

       Yes, you should be proud of yourself.

   27. JLDr Jack Lewis19:39

       What a great podcast.

   28. CWChris Williamson19:39

       So w- why is it, why is it, why is pride a sin?

   29. JLDr Jack Lewis19:42

       It's confusing, isn't it? Um, "You should take more pride in your work." How many times were we told that at school? Um, so, so, so the positive side of pride is it's, it's a natural human emotion, kicks in during childhood, and it rewards, uh, an infant feels proud of themselves when they do what mommy or daddy tell them to do. And then when they get positive feedback and they get smiles and claps and, you know, like body language and vocalizations that make the kid realize that they've done good, they beam with pride because it's reinforcing. When, when, when the world tells you that what you've done is good, um, in moderation, it's good because it makes you more likely to repeat that positive behavior. But the trouble with pride is when you take it to excess, you end up with essentially narcissism. The, the, the sin of pride, what, what the ancient religious thinkers thought was negative, bad about people who are overly prideful, is almost indistinguishable from what science and medicine these days thinks of as narcissism. So it's things like feeling like you don't need other people, you're completely self-efficacious. It's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, I don't need anyone else. Uh, being very vain, um, thinking that you're better than other people at pretty much everything, even in the sort of face of stark evidence to the contrary. You just, you just can't... you can't believe that you're not just brilliant at everything. Um, so the average narcissistic person is the kind of person that's really going to rub other people up the wrong way. Like they're always drawing attention to themselves, um, and a lot of narcissism seems to be to do with, uh, poor self-esteem and, and that can either come from neglectful parenting or, or overly attentive helicopter parenting, both of which can lead to what, what psychologists describe as an undifferentiated sense of self. Like so their sense of self doesn't develop properly early on in life, which means they don't really know where... If you take the helicopter parenting example, the kid doesn't know where they end and their parents begin. There's no dividing line. They just, they... because they have their parents' views forced on them the whole time, they don't know what they think. They just mimic parrot fashion what the parent would say in all situations and carry on doing that through life. So those kind of narcissists need to work on that to sort of basically stand on their own two feet, ego wise, if, if you like. Um, and, and although they seem, narcissists seem like they're so full of themselves, they're constantly looking for, uh, reassurance, positive feedback from the rest of the world, which is why they're such a nightmare to be around. Like anyone who does something good, "Oh, I'll take, I'll take responsibility for that. I'll get all the praise even though it wasn't my idea, but I convinced myself it was my idea so now all the praise should be showered in my direction." And then if you don't give them that praise, they get really aggressive, they get really wound up and they're, they're just a social nightmare. So narcissistic people almost always end up alone. E- even those in relationships, they choose relationships which are basically yes men, yes women, to, to constantly give that positive reinforcement and that's not really a relationship. Relationships involve g- give and take, so they're still an island (laughs) even when they're in relationships. So narcissism is, is, is the queen of all the deadly sins as far as Saint Gregory the Great was concerned and, and he's the guy who basically invented the concept of the seven deadly sins. He took some... there were so many sins before his time in the sixth century, um, that, that it was hard to keep track of all the things you shouldn't do but he sort of narrowed it down to, "Look, these are the seven most important things to keep your eye on." You know, there are lots of other things that are going to prevent you from going to heaven in his view of the world, um, but I think he was bang on the money to, to, to sort of refine the list down to a more easily manageable seven because then we've got a fighting chance of remembering them. Like our, our capacity to hold information in mind is limited to around about seven items. So expecting someone particularly, you know, hundreds of years ago, thousand years ago, to re-, to bear in mind when they're considering, "Should I, shouldn't I do this thing?" 10 different, like, commandments-

   30. CWChris Williamson24:00

       They can't even read or write, but they've got 45 different commandments they've got to try and remember.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. JLDr Jack Lewis30:00

      everywhere they go, the best way to deal with them is to be more mindful, just to think about how much extra inner turmoil they're dealing with than the average punter. And I, when I finished writing the book, um, I went back to the place where I, I was inspired to write the book, which is Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, um, you know? For, for us Brits, it's, it's, and, and in fact in the world, it's the home of freedom of speech and, and it's been that way since 1186, um, and- and it was sort of put into law in the 19th century because, uh, back in the day when people were going to be hung from the neck for some kind of crime, they'd get a chance to say a few words. They, they're going to be dead in a few minutes but, you know, doesn't really matter what they say and I, I love that in Britain we have this tradition of letting people who are doomed say their peace. It seems like a very reasonable thing to do. Anyway, so I used to go down there a lot because I'm, I'm a born and bred Londoner, I love roller skating, one of the best places to roller skate in the whole of London is up and down by the Serpentine. And when I got tired, all the way through my teens and 20s, I, I, I'd just go around to Speaker's Corner and have a little listen to all these usually men up on their ladders preaching away about whatever they wanted, it was invariably about religion.I remember thinking, "It's such a shame that a- all these people, like th- like I love that they are vehemently preaching their beliefs," and a lot of them errant beliefs in my view. But they had a place where they could speak their beliefs, and there's something very liberating about having the freedom to express yourself, even if you're completely wrong. Um, and I thought, "It's just a shame that science doesn't get a look in." And it was there where I, where I'd sort of listen to them. I'd go, "Well, 10% of what you said was bang on the money and I can learn from that, but 90% was supernatural poppycock." You know, it was mostly people arguing over whose religion is best. There's quite a lot of people from one faith having arguments with people from other faiths, you know, stress testing and going round and round in circles. But anyway, I went back there and I got up on my own soapbox, and I preached from my own book and I sort of, I, I s- I thought people would be interested, you know, passersby, "Oh, who wants to hear about the scientific perspective on the seven deadly sins?" And, and it's up on YouTube. If you go to sciofsin.com, I, I made these little videos. I got a friend to film it, and there's little six-minute snippets f- of the hour tal- hour-long talk I gave. Now about 20 minutes from the end, it was, this is like 11:30 on a Sunday, this bloke just s- came, sort of wandered over th- with like a bottle of cider in his hand, absolutely hammered, homeless guy, just shouting abuse at me nonstop for 20 minutes. And I didn't know how to deal with him, like I, I blanked him for five minutes. That didn't work. I, I brought him into the conversation a little bit trying to sort of use him to make some points. That didn't work. He was just drunk and belligerent. Anyway, I'm, I'm not proud. I edited it out, so there's no evidence of it, but I, I gave him a piece of my mind. I was rude to him. I got angry. I let him get to me, and in front of a crowd of about 50 people, I said a few quite unkind things, which didn't help matters, but nothing else had worked.

   2. CWChris Williamson33:00

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JLDr Jack Lewis33:01

      Fast-forward four months. I went back to the same spot, I gave the talk again, because I thought, "You can't just do it once." (laughs) Uh, and I told the story of how I had failed to be compassionate with that man, and that I was slightly embarrassed that I didn't put my own, you know, do... I basically did do as I say, not as I do. And I thought, "I... You know, if I get the chance, I'd lo- I'd love to make amends." You won't believe it. 10 minutes from the end of that talk, I saw him coming over from the background. I saw him wandering towards. I leapt off my soapbox, I ran over to him, and I was like, "It's so great to see you again. I'm really sorry for what I said last time." I threw my arms around him and gave him a hug. Now this guy is... You know, a lot of homeless people are mentally ill. There's a very high proportion. Like, and I did it on instinct because it felt like the right thing to do. Obviously un- unplanned. And at that moment of embracing him, I thought, "Is he, is he going to stab me? Like, you know, I could end up getting hurt here. What an idiot." On the contrary, he melted. He, he was tense and then when he... Like, I held him for about five, 10 seconds, and I felt him relax into my arms, which is weird, right? And he was good as gold. For, for the whole rest of the talk, he did not disturb once, whereas before he'd been going, "You're not an F-ing neurologist. You're a loony." You know, he was good as gold. And then at the end he came up to me and he's like, "I actually listened to you this time and I come down here to disturb these people because I think these religious zealots are nuts and they shouldn't be telling people to follow God. I think everyone should make their own decisions in life, and that's why I've come and been disruptive." He's like, "Now that I've listened to you, I agree with every word you said."

   4. CWChris Williamson34:40

      Man, what a cool-

   5. JLDr Jack Lewis34:40

      Which was nice.

   6. CWChris Williamson34:41

      ... what a cool-

   7. JLDr Jack Lewis34:41

      Which was nice.

   8. CWChris Williamson34:42

      What a cool story. So having been on the front door of more nightclubs than I can remember, I know the pain of dealing with someone who's drunk. And when, when people have got alcohol in them, man, there's just no ce- You're not talking to them. You're talking to the blood alcohol .10 or whatever it is. That's what you're talking to, right?

   9. JLDr Jack Lewis35:03

      Yeah. (laughs) Yeah.

   10. CWChris Williamson35:04

       Um, but yeah, definitely what I really enjoy doing, and I'm enjoying in doing it increasingly now, is breaking the fourth wall of a conversation in that sort of a manner. So if someone's doing something, if someone is being driven by their programming or they have a response to something, I'll ask them about the response, not about what they said, but like, "Hang on a second, man. Like why, why did you say that?" Or, "Why, why were you so sort of, um, self-effacing there? Like, why did you have to kind of caveat what you were going to say and say that, 'Oh, well, I know that it's just shit, but it's this thing.' It's like, why didn't you just say it?" "Oh, well, uh..." (stutters) And you can see people, the, the cognitive dissonance starts to fire and you're like, the programming just, it doesn't want to accept the fact, "I should have just said the words." But increasingly, I think, you know, doing it with compassion, not doing it to show off, doing it to say, "Look, like you don't need to be over or under. You..." That kind of-

   11. JLDr Jack Lewis36:03

       Mm-hmm.

   12. CWChris Williamson36:03

       ... the virtuous mean in the middle is exactly where you can be, and I think calling people out on that, it... As you said at the beginning, you want to be friends with people that want the best for you, not people-

   13. JLDr Jack Lewis36:13

       Yeah.

   14. CWChris Williamson36:13

       ... that want- that tell you what you want to hear.

   15. JLDr Jack Lewis36:15

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson36:15

       Not people that decide to be too mean and, and kind of, um, use you as a, uh, a punching bag for their own-

   17. JLDr Jack Lewis36:23

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson36:23

       ... kind of emotional challenges.

   19. JLDr Jack Lewis36:24

       Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson36:25

       Um, but man, that's a, that's a really, really cool story. I'm super glad as well that you managed to get some closure and, and, and kind of finish that loop off.

   21. JLDr Jack Lewis36:32

       Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson36:32

       Because I imagine it must have felt very, very satisfying. Also, obviously-

   23. JLDr Jack Lewis36:36

       That's very e- empathic of you because I... It, it, it ate away at me. I, I pride myself on not being a hypocrite. I try to not be a hypocrite, you know?

   24. CWChris Williamson36:43

       And not being a dick, I'm going to guess as well.

   25. JLDr Jack Lewis36:45

       Yeah. (laughs) Well, I try.

   26. CWChris Williamson36:46

       Yeah.

   27. JLDr Jack Lewis36:47

       Um, but that, that kind of thing, it, it does, it... You know, there, there are other things that... Like, I mention one in the book ab- about wrath, where this, um, this guy... I, I got... I was doing some filming in Brighton and I got to the end of the line, and I was, I was actually writing (laughs) for Science of Sin. Uh, you know, I was researching and writing, and I had my papers there but it took ages to tidy everything up. And the, the train conductor, like, went through the carriage and said, "You've got to get off." And I was like, "Yeah, yeah," and I was hurrying to get my stuff, but I, I, you know, I was basically dithering.And he, and he locked me in the carriage.

   28. CWChris Williamson37:20

       (laughs)

   29. JLDr Jack Lewis37:20

       And then I went up to the next carriage, that one was locked too. He had me running halfway up the length of the train before I could actually get off and I'm like, "Mate, what are you doing? You saw me there." I went absolutely mental at him. So, you know, the homeless guy, that guy, you know, literally enraged, like my blood alcohol level was super high and I felt like my pride was wounded. But I spent weeks, like I just, it kept popping into my head, examining it, "Why did you react like that? Why did you do that?" And, and I think that's one thing that this sort of new modern wisdom-inspired pursuit of like, let- let's use all this psychology research and this better understanding of why we do the things we do to try and make ourselves better. I think, I think one of the main things that offers us is the opportunity to not be so hard on ourselves. And what I liked about your anecdote is it sounded like you give reflections to people that help them, uh, catch when they're going into set piece behaviors, where they're kind of either beating themself up too much about something that they did, or writing off their potential to potentially be better. Because it's easier. If you don't try, you can't fail, you know? And I think a lot of people who, who are a little bit stuck in their ways from an objective perspective, it's like they're worried about trying to be different because if they try something new and it doesn't work, then that could end up giving their self-esteem a bit of a kicking.

   30. CWChris Williamson38:46

       Bro, I love, I love trying to bring people up like that. There's some people that are, as far as I'm concerned, are just lost causes, and that's more from a time efficiency perspective. There's certain people I know that have excess pride and I'm just, "Dude, like you're, you might, you might figure it out, you might not figure it out. Maybe you stumble down the right YouTube rabbit hole or start reading the right books or maybe you don't, but it's, this isn't my fight."
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   I love it. …

   1. JLDr Jack Lewis45:00

      matter, it's basically how good is that go faster wrapper? Um, is it, is it in good shape or is it in bad shape? And if you look at the brains of people who are obese, as far as their BMI is con- concerned, and you compare them to the brains of people who are lean, as far as BMI is concerned, uh, if ... Your average 50-year-old, uh, if you're obese, the white matter looks like what you'd get for your average lean 60-something-year-old. You know? So it ages the brain by 10 years. There's lot, all sorts of kind of cognitive capacities that are reduced. So this is obviously, it's not vice from the perspective of heaven or hell, we're, we're getting away from that entirely. A vice in terms of making a hell of your life on earth compared to what it could be. Um, you know, I have the greatest sympathy for people who, who struggle not to overeat because I overeat hugely.

   2. CWChris Williamson45:51

      I love it.

   3. JLDr Jack Lewis45:51

      I have done my whole life.

   4. CWChris Williamson45:52

      I love it. It's satisfying.

   5. JLDr Jack Lewis45:53

      But I've al- I've always been a sports person and, and since childhood I had tremendous excessive energy. And that, that wasn't my choice. In fact, it caused my parents ... Like, I, I, I never stopped. I was constantly running around, climbing up things. I wanted to do every sport that was available on the planet. I just wouldn't stop. So all I've done is continue doing that. Even though I keep up the same level of sport, I've still found that I, I have to constantly focus on eating less, increasing the gaps between my eating so that I don't end up, you know, eating something just before I go to bed and then eating as soon as I get up in the morning. I'm trying to extend that period where I'm fasting.

   6. CWChris Williamson46:32

      Mmm.

   7. JLDr Jack Lewis46:32

      And, and it's a, it is a constant battle and it's weirdly only now that instead of, because I can't go to the gym, I can't do anything else, it's only now by doing, um ... We're back to the hypocrisy thing again. I was a little bit overweight BMI wise, and it's only doing 10K twice a week instead of doing 10K once a month and my normal like, playing gym and football once a week, where I've, where I've, I've lost four kilos and I've got down into that healthy BMI for the first time in about 15, 20 years. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not a fat basher because if, if I had a different metabolism, if it ... No, if I had an injury that prevented me from doing sufficient work, I struggle to regulate my eating-

   8. CWChris Williamson47:13

      Mmm.

   9. JLDr Jack Lewis47:13

      ... and, and, you know, like, as, as much as the next person. But the consequences if you do allow yourself to become obese in terms of your brain health are, are, are pretty serious.

   10. CWChris Williamson47:25

       Bro, the quality of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts as far as I'm concerned. As the quality of my thoughts have improved, the quality of my life has improved linearly. Actually no, it probably increased exponentially. It's probably that my life has got better by a factor of how much better my thoughts have got.

   11. JLDr Jack Lewis47:41

       Nice.

   12. CWChris Williamson47:42

       And, um-

   13. JLDr Jack Lewis47:43

       Nice.

   14. CWChris Williamson47:43

       Don, Don McGregor from Social Chain said to me on our first ever podcast, he's a big sobriety advocate, as am I, um, elective sobriety, just for people that want more time and money and calories to spend on shit they care about. And he was like, "Bro, everything in your body is made from the stuff that you put in your mouth. Everything." I was like-

   15. JLDr Jack Lewis48:01

       Yeah.

   16. CWChris Williamson48:02

       ... "Hang on a fucking se- You're right." I can't, I can't build anything in my body if I don't first put it on a plate or in a wrapper-

   17. JLDr Jack Lewis48:09

       Yeah.

   18. CWChris Williamson48:09

       ... wrapper or whatever, and then put it in me. And I look back (laughs) , I look back to me at uni and I think, "What was, what was I eating at uni?"

   19. JLDr Jack Lewis48:18

       Yeah. Yeah.

   20. CWChris Williamson48:18

       Like, wake up, big bowl of Cheerios, last night's Domino, Domino's Pizza, go to lectures, come back, Budweiser, Budweiser, bit of pasta probably something, go out-

   21. JLDr Jack Lewis48:33

       Yeah. Yeah.

   22. CWChris Williamson48:33

       ... vod- vodka. You know?

   23. JLDr Jack Lewis48:34

       Yeah.

   24. CWChris Williamson48:34

       And you think like, that's not-

   25. JLDr Jack Lewis48:36

       I'm glad, I'm glad you're mentioning the booze here because the word gluttony comes from the Latin gluttire, which means to, to gulp. So, so it's to overco- it's basically, it's not just food, people thought gluttony, they always think food, food, food. No, it's, it's drink too.

   26. CWChris Williamson48:51

       An excessive consumption then.

   27. JLDr Jack Lewis48:53

       Yeah, it's just ... So long as it goes in through your mouth-

   28. CWChris Williamson48:56

       Yeah.

   29. JLDr Jack Lewis48:56

       ... it's, it's, it's gluttony.

   30. CWChris Williamson48:58

       Okay.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Yeah. Well, which, which…

   1. CWChris Williamson1:00:00

      they do not have conscious control over?

   2. JLDr Jack Lewis1:00:03

      Yeah. Well, which, which is, and the evidence says-

   3. CWChris Williamson1:00:04

      Holy fucking shit.

   4. JLDr Jack Lewis1:00:05

      ... some of your listeners won't have read it, right? Almost by definition, and, and the bit that, that really made me think differently about it is this thing called plethismography, one of the hardest words to pronounce in science.

   5. CWChris Williamson1:00:16

      Say it again.

   6. JLDr Jack Lewis1:00:17

      Plethis- bastard.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:00:19

      (laughs)

   8. JLDr Jack Lewis1:00:20

      Plethism- Ah, you got me. Plethismography. So you basically put a collar around the base of the penis and so you're measuring whether or not the person gets an erection, right? It's a completely objective measure of sexual arousal. There's a similar th- thing in, in, in women called photoplethismography which measures the, uh, lubrication of the vagina. Essentially, when female genitalia become a- aroused, it lubricates. When male, uh, well, it changes shape somewhat, um, and lubricates, and, and the male, it, uh, it, it, you know, the penis becomes turgid. So you can put the rod inside the hole. It's, it's, you know, biological and simple. But especially, um, s- so, what I'm, what I'm talking about is the sexual arousal thing is something that we have no control over, and in some of these studies that came out of a lab in Canada, the interesting thing was in order to make sure they had a population of purely pedophilic people, they, a- and then they compared them against purely non-pedophilic people 'cause obviously some people there'll be overlap.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:01:18

      Mm-hmm.

   10. JLDr Jack Lewis1:01:19

       They showed both parties children porn and adult porn and the pedophiles got no response from the adult pornography, whether it was gay or straight or anything else. They exclusively got a sexual response from, uh, the pedophilic content, which is why they're included, and vice versa. Um, they had to make sure that those who were turned on by-... um, uh, you know, adult consenting, uh, we hope, (laughs) pornography-

   11. CWChris Williamson1:01:46

       Mm-hmm.

   12. JLDr Jack Lewis1:01:47

       ... um, the, the, you know, they weren't also a little bit turned on by the pedophiles, in order to make sure that you really are comparing apples and oranges, that you are, you know, you're getting the populations purely pedophilic and purely, um, non-pedophilic. And, and so the fact that they bothered to do that is, is quite interesting in and of itself. But the fact that these people are incapable of becoming sexually aroused to anything other than children, it's like, you wou- you wouldn't wish that on your worst enemy, right?

   13. CWChris Williamson1:02:17

       No, man. It's, i- a- and that's the thing as well, especially when you roll the clock back and you realize that for a very, very long time as soon as a girl was fertile, she would be pregnant. In fact there's-

   14. JLDr Jack Lewis1:02:28

       She'd be married off and-

   15. CWChris Williamson1:02:29

       ... there's even a term for the, uh, period between her first, uh, period and when she becomes fertile.

   16. JLDr Jack Lewis1:02:38

       Mm-hmm.

   17. CWChris Williamson1:02:39

       I can't remember the word for it, but there's a, a medieval term for that period because it was so commonly used by the waiting male for this, what? I don't know, what? 13, 14, probably for most girls when they start puberty, I don't know.

   18. JLDr Jack Lewis1:02:52

       Juliet in Romeo and Juliet was around about that age.

   19. CWChris Williamson1:02:55

       Yeah. But I mean, Game of Thrones, there you go, um, Daenerys. But y- you get my point. Like-

   20. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:00

       Speaking of made up drama. (laughs)

   21. CWChris Williamson1:03:01

       Yeah. (laughs)

   22. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:02

       (laughs)

   23. CWChris Williamson1:03:03

       Um, right, two more things, two more things in lust that I really, I really thought was cool. Um, I didn't realize that the female orgasm has a reproductive function. What, is it the cilia, is it called?

   24. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:15

       Yeah.

   25. CWChris Williamson1:03:15

       Yeah.

   26. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:15

       The little hair-like, um, hair-like extensions that, that reach out into the fallopian tube.

   27. CWChris Williamson1:03:21

       The, the waft. Mm-hmm.

   28. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:21

       It actually wafts the sperm into the correct ... You know, there's two fallopian tubes, um, and it wafts it into the one that the egg will be found in-

   29. CWChris Williamson1:03:31

       Yeah.

   30. JLDr Jack Lewis1:03:32

       ... over and above the one that didn't produce an egg.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:16:42

   Beep, beep, beep, beep,…

   1. CWChris Williamson1:15:00

   2. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:00

      Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.

   3. CWChris Williamson1:15:01

      Yeah, yeah. It's not-

   4. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:02

      (laughs)

   5. CWChris Williamson1:15:02

      It's hardly the most sort of seductive... It's not the, the candles and the Barry White aren't, aren't quite playing, are they?

   6. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:09

      Yeah.

   7. CWChris Williamson1:15:10

      No.

   8. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:10

      No, it's not, but then, I guess, (sucks teeth) ƒ�cking A.

   9. CWChris Williamson1:15:13

      Okay, so-

   10. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:14

       Folks, if you- (laughs)

   11. CWChris Williamson1:15:16

       ... we, we, we understand that, we understand that envy is this comparison mechanism that's going on. I guess that's got to be exacerbated in a world where social media shows us a, a shop window into the best of everybody's lives.

   12. JLDr Jack Lewis1:15:28

       Correct. Be careful who you envy because quite often the people that... the others that people typically envy project success and that everything's great. But actually behind the scenes, are they really great? You know? Is life really as gravy when they're back home as when they're on the sofa on telly, you know? Quite often it's not the case, but we don't look into the backstory behind these people. There's loads and loads of people in the public eye who, when they, when they, when they roll out on stage, when they roll out on a, in front, uh, uh, uh, in the studio in front of the lights and the TV cameras, they put, they put on a face that just exudes success. But actually behind the scenes, they've got a crushing horrible existence, um, that they carefully hide from everyone. It's not all, it's not, it's not the case with everyone, but it just seems such a horrible shame that people are like consumed with envy, wishing they could have the trappings of, let's say, this reality TV star who's just, you know, gone on, gone from nothing to having an awesome life, seemingly. If actually behind the scenes they, they, they wished none of it had happened because they were happier before.

Episode duration: 2:07:58