EVERY SPOKEN WORD
70 min read · 13,845 words- 0:00 – 8:37
The Trait That Takes You Further Than Talent
- CWChris Williamson
Work hard and be nice. Is that basically your career philosophy?
- HAHARDY
Yeah. Have I said that exact, exactly before? I feel like I have. I, I feel like that's, like, the number one, um... [inhales] You know, honestly, if I put them in order, it would be n- be, be nice first and work hard, uh, second. Not, not, not like, you know, um, don't dismiss working hard, but man, being, being a good hanger, just being somebody that somebody wants in the room will take you so far, I feel like, in, in any, any sort of, any job atmosphere at all.
- CWChris Williamson
Why? I, I would've assumed, especially in music, if you're some virtuoso guitarist-
- HAHARDY
Nobody likes an asshole, dude. It doesn't matter how good you are at something. I, I just... Nobody wants that person in the room, I feel like, and, and, uh, I just... How many times-- I, I cannot tell you how many times I've done podcasts, or we've gotten a VIP tour of something, or we had a driver, you know, in LA or in New York, and then we've been like: "You ever had anybody that was just terrible to work with?" And people just remember that, man, and it's, a lot of times it's people that are, like, really famous and really successful and very talented. And, and there's just-- I know that people like drivers and, you know, people that give Disney World tours and stuff like that are not people that are gonna, uh, you know, help advance your career. But, but I think that transcends stuff like that, and, um, just being nice to people and making, making sure everybody is appreciated and feels comfortable around you, and I just think it's important.
- CWChris Williamson
There's a guy called Paul Graham, who's an investor and a writer from the UK, or he lives in the UK now. He's got this great idea: "Famous jerks are not role models. Some talented people are jerks, and this sometimes makes it seem to the inexperienced that being a jerk is part of being talented. It isn't. Being talented is merely how they get away with being a jerk."
- HAHARDY
Oh, wow, that's really good.
- CWChris Williamson
I think it's true.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, totally, 100%.
- CWChris Williamson
The, the success is not because of them being an asshole. The fact that they are successful is how they get away with being an asshole.
- HAHARDY
Yeah. 100%.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughing]
- HAHARDY
Yeah. It's a para- Would you call it a paradox?
- CWChris Williamson
A little bit.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, well, it's certainly, uh, it's certainly surprising because it gives people this idea that, oh, ego is where the success has been, like, uh, cultivated from-
- HAHARDY
Right
- CWChris Williamson
... as opposed to the fact that, like, the success gave them this buffer zone where people are, "Oh, I can't be too mean to HARDY 'cause, like, you know, like, look at all the songs he does and stuff. He's a bit of a dick," you know, whatever.
- HAHARDY
Yeah. Right.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, so, I mean, it, it's kind of surprising 'cause I think a lot of people in jobs, they see it as being transactional, um, that if you are good at X, you will get Y. But there's the packaging that your talent, uh, comes in, which is like, "Well, are you a good hang? How are you on the bus? What's your morale like when you've done three shows in three days, and everybody's tired?" It's like, are you the one that brings everybody up, or are you the one that's like, "Ah, dude, this is so tough. This is so hard. I'm missing the..." what da, da, da, da. It's like everyone's doing that.
- HAHARDY
Yeah. Yeah. No, it's very true, man, and it's just [inhales] ... [exhales] I've always just kind of thought that it's like, it takes way more effort to be a, you know, like an asshole than just to be nice. And there's- I mean, I've, I've had my moments, I mean, for sure, where I just, I'm, I'm exhausted or mentally drained or my meter is at all-time zero, and, and those are moments where I feel like I just get more quiet more than, more than anything. But, um, man, it, it's just so much easier to be just nice to people and, and just keep a smile on your face and keep it light and just do, do what you gotta do. And even if it's something you don't wanna do, you do it anyway and, and, and have fun with it, and I don't know. It just seems way less effort to do that.
- CWChris Williamson
In your experience, is being a good guy, uh, a performance enhancer rather than trying to be ruthless and screwing people over?
- HAHARDY
W- What do you mean by that?
- CWChris Williamson
If you're a nice person, are they the ones that end up winning in the end? Because there is a, a sense that ruthlessness and being cutthroat and, you know, sort of like going for it-
- HAHARDY
Sure
- CWChris Williamson
... aggressive, lean in, oh, well, that's how you achieve success.
- HAHARDY
I don't think, I don't, I don't think there's a real true answer to that 'cause I think there's tons of people. I think- I would like to think that more nice people win, f- certainly, but, um, I don't think it's true every time by any means.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm. Well, I'm interested for you, especially about the tension between being a songwriter and an artist, right? Because you've got- you're part of the Nashville engine.
- HAHARDY
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
Uh, I was talk- talking to a friend yesterday who put you as, like, one of the best three songwriters in Nashville, which is probably about as competitive as it can be.
- HAHARDY
That's very nice.
- 8:37 – 12:57
How Does the Nashville Writing Machine Work?
- HAHARDY
always.
- CWChris Williamson
What do people not understand about how the Nashville scene works?
- HAHARDY
In what way?
- CWChris Williamson
Generally, I mean, it is a... It's a fucking engine for music.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
It's a factory for music. Uh, but at least from, from my perspective, the fact that you have, uh, a room where anybody who... Typically, you've got, like, the, the writer credit of, "Dude, you were over the far side chewing on a toothpick," or whatever. Like, "Thank you for being in the room. You contributed to this." The fact that you will have multiple different rooms going at one time, and artists will bounce between those-
- HAHARDY
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... if they're really, really trying to crank it. Um, it seems to me like there aren't many scenes like Nashville when it comes to, to writing music, maybe anywhere on the planet.
- HAHARDY
It's very different. I mean, I think Nashville's work ethic is better than other cities I've, I've written in. Um, I think that top-liners, like lyric and melody, or l- uh, at least lyric writers, storytellers, um, I think it's the best in the world. Um, I think that Nashville has the greatest storytellers in the world. Uh, and it is. It's, it's a machine, and it all starts with the song, which I think is really cool, man. And, like, right now, today, what time is it right now? It's, it's 10:11 right now. There are more... There's probably 300 rooms of people writing songs right now in Nashville, trying to get the next hit. Excuse me. And there's a lot of those songs that are gonna be, have potential to be the next, you know, in, within the next year, a big old hit, and it's, it's, it's kind of off to the races from there, you know? And I think it's the coolest thing ever.
- CWChris Williamson
Is there something about country as a musical style which affords storytelling, uh, more room than other genres do?
- HAHARDY
Yeah, sure. Uh, I think that can go back to a long time ago, and I... You know, like, and, well, it's, a-- much of country music's biggest songs have been stories, and so I just think it's a pattern. If that's kind of what you're getting at, um, are you... I mean, basically, are you just saying, like, why, why is, why, why is it easier or more common to write stories in country than any other, any other thing?
- CWChris Williamson
To a degree, yeah. And then is there something to do with the structure of country as a, a, a genre, which affords more s- more room for storytelling? Like a rock, right? Or, like, just very unique ways to piece a story together and then keep on looping things back. Um...
- HAHARDY
I don't know. That's a really good question.
- CWChris Williamson
I, so... If I was to, like, put my total amateur, uh, theory forward, uh, it's so lyric driven. It's so vocals heavy.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, are, are there many country songs where people go, "Dude, I just love the riff," right? Well, no, but with something like, um, "Caramel" by Sleep Token-
- HAHARDY
[chuckles]
- CWChris Williamson
... that plucky little intro thing-
- HAHARDY
Yeah, it's great
- CWChris Williamson
... that it has, is as... Yeah, exactly.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, it almost... The first time I ever heard it, I thought, "Is this, like, some, like, reggaeton Jamaican-
- HAHARDY
Yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... inspired?" 'Cause it almost does have that sound.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Like, bung-ging-ging.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Bing-ging-ging.
- HAHARDY
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
So I'm like, all right, well, that is as much a part... And if you move into metal or more hard stuff, well, the riff actually can be the lead. That's what people love.... but with country, very rarely is it gonna be that. It's much more about, it's driven by the-
- 12:57 – 19:39
Behind the Scenes of HARDY’s Creative Process
- CWChris Williamson
Talk to me about where inspiration and creativity comes from for you or what sort of your creative process looks like because you've got a bunch of stuff going on. Um, high-volume, uh, writing for other people. I, I've heard you say it's between sort of two and three days a week-
- HAHARDY
Mm-hmm
- CWChris Williamson
... that you're cranking that out.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, on a good... Like, when, in a good, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
When you're not on tour-
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- CWChris Williamson
... and you've got a little bit of time, and maybe not a new dad. Um, but then you've also got your own stuff. You've got your own obligations, but then you've also got this balance between volume of output and quality of output. You can't be doing five songs a day, three days a week, and maximizing-
- HAHARDY
Right
- CWChris Williamson
... in the same way that you would if it was-
- HAHARDY
Sure
- CWChris Williamson
... spending a little bit more time. So I'm interested in this balance, yeah, inspiration and creativity with, uh, output.
- HAHARDY
I mean, you know, the one cool thing about Nashville, before I even get into this, is we all stand- the songwriters all stand on each other's shoulders, and, you know, [exhales] thankfully there's so much, like, collaboration and, and, um, um, camaraderie within that, you know, in Nashville, that, like, you know, you go into a room with some people and, and, um, like, I might be exhausted. I might have not been in a good, like, idea headspace, and, uh, you go in, and, like, your buddy or whoever you're writing with has the idea, and it's just like, "Oh, thank God!" You know what I mean?
- CWChris Williamson
[laughing]
- HAHARDY
Like, that pressure is off, and now I can just latch onto this idea and help write this in the room. But, you know, um, so that, you know, so your collaborators always make it a lot easier on you. It's like if you and I, or it's like if you asked me to move this table across the room, or we got six people to do it, and the, the weight is a lot lighter, and that's what it's always felt like for me. So, um, first and foremost, if you don't have an idea, don't, don't let your panic or your, um, your inhibition put that, you know, the cloud over your creative bubble, um, because you just have to always trust that somebody's gonna have something if you don't, you know? And that, that helps with the creative process. But, uh, man, for me, I just, I t- I have a running list of, uh... I'll scroll fast so nobody steals my shit.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- HAHARDY
But, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
We can bl- we can, we can blur it. I'll, I'll see, so I can-
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- HAHARDY
You'll see. 'Cause I'm writing after this today, too.
- CWChris Williamson
Amazing.
- HAHARDY
Um, but these are just all song, either lines or notes or whatever, and it, it dates back to, like, probably 10 years ago. It's just a running list of notes. Mine, mine is short. I've, I see people scroll through theirs, and they're super long, and I'm like, "Damn, bro."
- CWChris Williamson
Well, you keep on turning them into songs, which is an advantage. [laughing]
- HAHARDY
Well, that's true. That's true, and then you have, then you have to delete it. Sometimes it's, like, sad. You're like, "Damn, I've been looking at that idea for, you know, two or three years," and you delete it. But, um, man, yeah, and, you know, I, I know that's not exactly what you were getting at, but I love talking about this because it's so, like any other office or whatever it may be, it's like you walk... You, you, everybody has their ideas, and then you walk into a publishing house or even someb- usually, a lot of times these days, it's either somebody's studio or their home studio, but, like, you just walk in, and you know everybody now, so it's just like... It's, there's, it's not, it's not this, like, light a candle, kumbaya. You know, like, somebody's like, "Man, I just went through this horrible heartbreak. Let's blah, blah, blah." You know, it's just, it's not like that. And-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- HAHARDY
... but I love that it's, that we can, like, take a moment where we're at, we're walking in, and we're like, "What up?" You know, and, and you get your coffee-
- CWChris Williamson
You get down to business.
- HAHARDY
... and, you know, I'm a big deer hunter, and most, a lot of Nashville writers are big deer hunters, so right now we're just talking about deer hunting, and then everybody goes, "Oh, well, let's see here." And then somebody's like, "Heart," you know, "Heart's on fire," and you just start throwing out random ideas, and, uh, and it's just, one of them sticks, and then you write it because everybody in the room is a professional songwriter, and then a year later, it's, like, a seven-week number [chuckles] one. Dude, it's like, it's just crazy to me. But it's, it's... But I, what I'm getting at is how not, um, it's not like, it's not as... You would never think that it's, like, not a creative, you know, from the heart kind of thing because it's country music, and, like, these, the stories are so good, and they make people cry and-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- HAHARDY
... but, but these songwriters, like myself and other people, it's like we're not crying in the room, but when we write a line, we're like, "This is gonna, this is gonna hammer somebody. It's gonna make..." Like, you know, but, and we mean that not in a funny way, but, like, in a very, like-
- 19:39 – 30:45
The Unique Pain Behind Country Music
- CWChris Williamson
The only equivalent that I can, [inhales] uh, get from my world, writing and, and podcasting, is sometimes I'll come across something that I've never heard of before. There was this, uh, love letter that Richard Feynman wrote, um, to his wife. And I [sighs] stumbled upon it and was thinking about it for ages before I actually talked about it, 'cause I didn't know if I could say it without crying.
- HAHARDY
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
And it's basically this, uh, love letter to his wife, Arline, that he hasn't written for quite a long time, and then about two-thirds of the way through the love letter, you find out that she's dead, and he's writing this to his wife that's passed away.
- HAHARDY
Oh, my God, dude!
- CWChris Williamson
So I like-
- HAHARDY
Ah! [chuckles]
- CWChris Williamson
Bro, it's-
- HAHARDY
[laughs]
- CWChris Williamson
Do you want me to read it to you? Let me read it to you.
- HAHARDY
God, I, I don't know. I don't think I've ever cried on camera before, but sure.
- CWChris Williamson
Let's see if we can do it.
- HAHARDY
Jesus Christ.
- CWChris Williamson
Well, I've already, uh-
- HAHARDY
Tear up literally just a- like saying it, but you've already... At least you've given it away, so it takes the shock away-
- CWChris Williamson
I've warned you a little bit
- HAHARDY
... Spoiler alert.
- CWChris Williamson
All right. "October 17th, 1946. To Arline, I adore you, sweetheart. I know how much you like to hear that, but I don't only write it because you like it. I write it because it makes me warm all over inside to write it to you. It is such a terribly long time since I last wrote to you, almost two years, but I know you'll excuse me because you understand how I am, stubborn and realistic, and I thought there was no sense to writing. But now I know, my darling wife, that it is right to do what I have delayed in doing and that I have done so much in the past. I want to tell you I love you. I want to love you. I will always love you. I find it hard to understand in my mind what it means to love you after you are dead-
- HAHARDY
Mm.
- CWChris Williamson
... but I still want to comfort and take care of you, and I want you to love me and care for me. I want to have problems to discuss with you. I want little projects with you. I never thought until just now that we can do that. What should we do? We started to learn to make clothes together, or learn Chinese, or get a movie projector. Can't I do something now? No, I'm alone without you, and you were the idea woman and general instigator of all our wild adventures. When you were sick, you worried that you could not give me something that you wanted to and thought I needed. You needn't have worried. Just as I told you then, there was no real need because I loved you in so many ways, so much, and now it is clearly even more true. You can give me nothing now, yet I love you so that you stand in my way of loving anyone else. But I want you to stand there. You, dead, are so much better than anyone else alive."
- HAHARDY
Mm. My God!
- CWChris Williamson
"I know you will assure me that I am foolish and that you want me to have full happiness and don't want to be in my way. I bet you are surprised that I don't even have a girlfriend, except you, sweetheart, after two years. But you can't help it, darling, nor can I. I don't understand it, for I have met many girls and very nice ones, and I don't want to remain alone. But in two or three meetings, they all seem ashes. You only are left to me. You are real. My darling wife, I do adore you. I love my wife. My wife is dead. P.S. Please excuse my not mailing this, but I don't know your new address."
- HAHARDY
Oh, my God. Jesus, man. [inhales] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm... That's, that's insane. It's, it's, it's, like, i- is that real? That's a real thing he did for his real wife? So, like, there's still- there's so much poetry in, in there. I mean, I, there's so much... To me, part of the, the gag or the, like, the, the trick is, is not revealing the thing until it's, like, the perfect time, right? So, like, that's the thing, you know?
- CWChris Williamson
"I don't understand. I, I, I struggle to know what it means to love you after you are dead."
- HAHARDY
Yeah, and, and, and the songwriting, from a songwriting, you would probably wait till the very end, you know, to do that.
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm.
- HAHARDY
But even still, like, it's... Waiting on that is such a poetic, it's such a- I mean, it, it's, it's a simple... You know, we call it a trick, but-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm-hmm
- HAHARDY
... but, uh, yeah, that's, that's beautiful. I mean, it's... I'm trying to think of a song that I have or that I know of that has, like, a twist at the very end of a song. Um-... but you kind of have to like, "Oh, shit, I gotta listen to that again." [chuckles] You know, like, I miss- I missed it. It's like a M. Night Shyamalan movie, and you miss-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah
- HAHARDY
- the sixth sense, and you're like-
- 30:45 – 41:54
The Crash That Changed HARDY’s Life
- CWChris Williamson
You said new album, a lot of mortality.
- HAHARDY
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
What inspired that?
- HAHARDY
I don't know. It's just that maybe a headspace I've been in of, uh, appreciating life a little bit more. Um, you know, we, we-- I was in a pretty bad bus accident a couple years ago, and it kind of opened my eyes to a lot of, uh, just how, how it can kinda go like that. And, uh, it's a miracle that any of us survived. We all survived. It's a miracle that any of us did, and, and, uh, I don't know. I feel like since then, just my mortality or the fragility of my mortality or my life, whatever that- however that's supposed to be worded, um-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- HAHARDY
... i- is, it just has been a little, a more apparent thing, uh, for me recently, and, and so I think that's why. I don't really know, but... And I've already, like, the songs I've written since that record, like, nothing, nobody's died. I haven't died. I'm not gonna die, you know, but I just, I had to get it out. I don't know what it was, but there's, you know, there's songs about, like, there's so- there's songs about appreciating it, and there's songs about, like, um... I mean, I don't know. I have to kinda go back and read the, the track list now, but there's, it kinda touches just on different, different ways to approach your, uh, your mortality. Um, and, uh, yeah, I just think it probably has to do a lot with the headspace that I've been in post-bus wreck. It's been three years, but, but I've kinda been writing this record for y- a year and a half or two years, so it was still pretty fresh at the time.
- CWChris Williamson
Would you mind telling the story about the bus?
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, we were, we played a show in Bristol. It was a Sat- Saturday night in Bristol. Um, I was opening for Morgan, and then we decided to leave early so we could get to back to town because Bristol, Tennessee's only, like, four hours away. Um, and you gain an hour, so it doesn't feel like you get in quite as late, you know? Um, so we were 20 miles from town, maybe less. We were, like, 15 miles back from town, and my tour manager at the time was already sleeping in his bunk. And, um, my photographer and I were awake in the front lounge listening to something, listening to music, and, uh, my, our bus driver pulled over on the side of the road and got- he came and went to the bathroom, and he stayed in there, like, five minutes, which was really weird, especially being this close to town. But we didn't- you know, we were drinking. We, we didn't really think anything about it. We were just like: "It's kinda weird," and, um, came out of the bathroom, and I was like: "Ricky, you good?" And he ignored me, which I- we were like: "What is he..." But he had his Bluetooth thing in, so we always wondered if he was on the phone. So I st- I stepped up, and I was like: "Ricky, you good?" And he's like: "Yep, all good." I was like: "All right, man. Well, you know, he'll be there in a minute or whatever, I guess." And anyway, we started going back down the road, and then we just, just the bus just went off in this, like, bottom, and we f- we flipped, like, three times over.
- CWChris Williamson
And you're still in the front lounge?
- HAHARDY
Mm-hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
So you're not strapped in at all. You're dun-dun, dun-dun, dun-dun.
- HAHARDY
Yeah. Somebody said like shoes in a, in a washing or shoes in a dryer. Uh, and, uh-
- CWChris Williamson
So what just... Because you must be sat and then feel the bus-
- HAHARDY
We, we got- well, we felt the rumble strips, and then we felt us, like, going off the road. Like, you know, every now and then, your driver will hit, like, rumble strips, and you're- everybody's like, "Ooh."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- HAHARDY
But we felt the left side hit the rumble strips, and we knew we were going off the road, and, um, it just... I don't know what it was, but when it flipped, it got airborne for a second. I, I, I could just- there was a moment of, like, silence before the thing, and me and Tanner looked at each other and then just, we both just, like, boom! And it was, like, the hardest force I've ever felt in my life, just got thrown to the other side, and then we both were, like, instantly knocked out. So I don't remember anything else, but the way the bus was laying, it's like, if it's driving down the road like this, right? It flipped here, and then it flipped here, and then it flipped here, and that's where we, like, ended or whatever. But I woke up. I was the first one to wake up, which sucked. [chuckles] Uh, and I- my head was, like, wedged under this, the window, which had busted out, and, um, and I- it- there was, like, glass everywhere, and there was a piece of glass from the window, like, stuck in my head, and I just had to, like, pull my head out from under this thing. And, uh, I walked up. It was this- we went down a really steep hill, so I had to walk up. It wasn't, like, steep like that ceiling by any means, but it was probably a 15-foot, you know, like, hill or whatever. And, um, it was cold. It was, like, 35 degrees, [sniffs] and, uh, I was try- I could not flag down a car. It was, like, 4:00 in the mor- 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, and so I could not get a car. I didn't have my phone. I'm blind without my glasses, so I couldn't see. I thought everybody in the bus was dead because no- everybody was- nobody was conscious. Um, so I was just helpless, like, I didn't know what to do. And so I went back to the bus to try to find my phone, but I couldn't fucking see, so, like... And I didn't ha- and I was wearing all black, so I couldn't find anything. I mean, the bus looked like, it looked like a bomb went off in there. It was just, it was just... Like, you can't even describe it. You'd have to Google it, but, um [lips smack] but yeah, uh, went back up to the highway. I'm, I'm in the road. I had a white circle on my hoodie, and I'm in the road, like, shaking it and then running to the side. Nobody would stop. Um, and then I heard my photographer, uh, wake up, and he was screaming, "Bloody murder," all this thing, and, and, um, and then my tour manager, somehow, he was blocked in the back. The, the door was shut to the... You know how- have you been on a tour bus? Like, yeah, the, the doors, you know, and all that. So that door was shut. Somehow he got it open.... and, uh, I mean, [chuckles] he's all banged up, and he's, like, looking at me like you're looking at me right now. And I was like, "I know!" And I was like, "We have to have a phone now." And it was a miracle. His phone somehow, in all of that craziness, had gotten from his bunk to the front lounge, like slid somewhere, and, and it was at the bottom of a pile of, like, rubble ins- inside the bus. And when- the, the second I said, "We have to get a phone right now," um, his alarm to wake up, 'cause we would have gotten back to town, went off. And so I literally reached down and to... just moved all the, the whatever the hell w- it was, got his phone, called 911. We were thankfully one exit away from, uh, like a hospital exit. It was like an exit built for, like, a big hospital complex. Ambulance was there in, like, five minutes. And, uh, yeah, so all that being said, uh, rest in peace, Ricky. Ricky, we ha- we wrecked because he had a brain tumor he didn't know about, and so he had either an aneurysm or a s- a stroke or a seizure. It was probably a seizure. Because he, he- they sent him to Vanderbilt because they were asking him questions, and he didn't know what day it was or where he was, and they were like, "Okay, he's had trauma. We need to get him somewhere." And they didn't find it for, like, a week, but come to find out, he had a brain tumor. It ended up killing him about a, a year later. Um, Tanner, uh, broke, [chuckles] like, every... My photographer broke, like, every bone in his body. And I just laugh. We can laugh about it now 'cause it was just crazy, but I remembered seeing his, uh, his bone. He had a, a compound fracture that broke the skin, so he had a bone sticking out of the top of his foot. [chuckles] And he kept, he kept telling the, uh... We're like- we're- and now we're in the bus, and coming- we're helping. And I'm just, you know, uh... The ambulance is there, and he kept pulling on his bone, and he was like, "There's a stick in my foot!" [laughing] And we're like, "Stop pulling on it. It's a bone." But, um, yeah, Tanner broke his neck, his ribs, his back, his foot. He was... I mean, he was so mangled. He's a smaller guy, and, and, um, I, uh, Noah, the guy in the bunk, he actually turned out the best 'cause he, he didn't h- he was just-
- CWChris Williamson
Banged up, banged up, banged up, banged up, banged up.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He was pretty banged up, but no serious injuries. And, um, I just had a concussion and, like, a few staples in my head, and I fractured my back, but it wasn't even, like... Not very serious, you know what I mean? I, like, I hurt for a, a couple months. It's a compression fracture, so I guess when we hit, I think my spine just did like an accordion and right in the middle-
- CWChris Williamson
Do you feel a little bit shorter than you did before the-
- HAHARDY
Oh, well, I, I physically was, like, a half an inch shorter.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughing]
- HAHARDY
But I- but they missed it in the hospital, and I- like, a week later, Kat, my wife, and I are on a walk, and, um, I was like, "Man, I feel this, like, jolt of just, like, pain that goes through my body."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- HAHARDY
And I got- went and got a X-ray, and it was, like, a bunch of square vertebras, and then one just looked like that right in the middle, and they call that a compression fa- fracture. And they said it, you know... I haven't gotten it looked at again, but said it takes six to eight months to... There's nothing you can do. You just, it kinda gets back to normal, and-
- CWChris Williamson
Just go steady.
- HAHARDY
But all that being said, um, yeah, it was a very, very, uh, just unpredictable... You know, when you think about it, like, we weren't- we didn't deal with a drunk driver, we didn't hit a deer or just... You know what I mean? We didn't... There wasn't icy, there was no snow, no bad weather.
- CWChris Williamson
It wasn't because-
- HAHARDY
Our driver just had a-
- CWChris Williamson
... he was being negligent?
- HAHARDY
No, he just, he had a brain episode, and, and it just happened to be then, you know? I mean, it-
- 41:54 – 49:56
Why It Takes Time to Process Trauma
- CWChris Williamson
I'm interested... Uh, first off, I'm really, really glad that you guys are all still here, and it feels-
- HAHARDY
Thank you, man
- CWChris Williamson
... a lot like a miracle. Secondly, I've been on a good few tour buses, uh, single-deckers to double-deckers, especially around Europe.
- HAHARDY
S- that's scary, dude.
- CWChris Williamson
That would've been different.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Um, but every single time, especially on a double-decker, when you're at the front lounge on the top, it's you and a piece of glass, and then just-
- HAHARDY
You're just doing this
- CWChris Williamson
... the road right in front of you.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
... every single time that I've been on a bus like that, that's been moving, there is a bit of me that goes, like, in cars, you're supposed to have your seatbelt on at all times.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You need to spend a lot of time touring, which means you're gonna have to be back in a bus a good bit, and you would've had to have got back on a bus.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
What was the first time that you got back on a tour bus for a long night journey, like, after that experience, and, and sort of how are you now with that?
- HAHARDY
Um, this is a, th- this was a, this was a journey. This was, like, a very long... So I forgot to mention, but this was three weeks before my wedding. My wife was on her bachelorette party the last night. They had-- again, it was 3:00 in the morning. She- they're in New Orleans. They're all hammered, having a great time. I FaceTime her, and I'm just, like, bleeding, just bleeding out of my nose and my head, and I just look like, you know, I look like I've been in a car accident. And I'm freaking out 'cause I've, I've hit my head really hard, and I'm actually pretty with it, but I just, I, h- like, a brain injury has always freaked me out, and I know how that works, is sometimes you can hit your head, and then you don't know it till, like, hours later if you don't go get it checked out, and da, da, da, da. And, uh, anyway, so I was like: "Hey, I, like, I, we've been in a bus wreck. Like, I love you. I don't know what's gonna happen. We're going to the hospital right now." And so she's freaking out. So all that because... And that's my, my number one thought was, like, "I have to get married."
- CWChris Williamson
Mm.
- HAHARDY
Like, I literally, I have my wedding. Like, do not fucking... You know, like: "You're gonna be fine-"
- CWChris Williamson
Don't die before the wedding.
- HAHARDY
"Yeah."
- CWChris Williamson
Don't die before the-
- HAHARDY
Don't die before the wedding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So all that being said, we got married. We went to, uh, w- we- the week, like, a week or two after that was CMA Week, which was very busy, and it was a time where... Which is this, this week is also CMA Week. Uh, I was, I think, pretty sure I was, like, nominated for a lot. It was a very busy, like, su- but a good, like, successful week, but I was like, a lot going on that week.
- CWChris Williamson
With a-
- HAHARDY
Um
- CWChris Williamson
... bandage wrapped around your head.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, I, I had won, I won BMI Songwriter of the Year that year. Um, just a lot of... And then immediately after, the, like, the night of the CMAs, Callie and I, my wife and I, flew to LA to go to Thailand for our honeymoon. So after the wreck, I never had, like, a ti- um, time to, like, process it. It was just like I got better, and when I could f- kind of walk and, you know, had my head was kind of in good shape, like, it was, like, getting ready for the wedding. It was, like, immediately. So, um, that December, I played a few shows that were not very long runs, and we took the bus, but I wouldn't go overnight. I would do it, um, in the morning. Like, we would leave early in the morning and make, like, that six or seven-hour trip-
- CWChris Williamson
And that was a-
- HAHARDY
... just 'cause it's daylight. You can-- you know, you're talking to the bus driver.
- CWChris Williamson
And that was to make you feel more comfortable?
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- 49:56 – 1:01:57
Why Vulnerability Isn’t a Weakness
- CWChris Williamson
Do you think vulnerability and talking about emotions is becoming more acceptable in-
- HAHARDY
Yes
- CWChris Williamson
... male artists now?
- HAHARDY
I think so, and I hope that it gets better. Um, you know, I, I, I don't think that anybody that, that talks about that, uh, is considered soft by any means. And, uh, I know a lot of... I've talked to a lot of artists, very successful artists that deal with their- they're just like: "Man, my anxiety has been so bad recently," and I just, I wish the more public you can make it and the more, like, people that can openly share that they deal with stuff-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- HAHARDY
... then, like, the next time you're going through something, you know, if you're in an award show or something, you can just go find your buddy and be like: "Hey, I'm freaking out." You know what I mean? Like, that just, the more acceptable it is, I feel like a lot of, a, a big part of depression and anxiety, um, that makes it worse or, or, um, yeah, that makes it worse, is the shame that comes with it because it's, you're not- it's not supposed to be okay or, or you're considered weak or whatever, or an inconvenience or whatever that may be. And I just think the more open, uh, especially men, uh, are about their mental health, uh, the less... the more, uh, that, the shame and the guilt and the, the burden and all that will just sort of go away. Especially with artists, I mean, we're not, we're not- human beings were not designed to be famous. Uh, we weren't designed to, uh, just to travel and to, especially artists, we weren't designed to, like, experience insane levels of serotonin and adrenaline three nights in a row, four or five nights in a row sometimes. Uh, there's, there's a lot that, that's, that, you know, uh, people are gonna roll their eyes and know and just be like: "Well, grass must be nice," blah, blah, blah. But, man, it's just, it's a mental thing that you go through that, like, it, you know, [clears throat] it's just, it's different. It's just... I don't think that our brains are wired to experience some of the stuff that, that, that singers or, or anybody, anybody that's a public figure experiences, and, and, uh, it can take a toll on you, man, m- m- male, female-
- CWChris Williamson
Mm
- HAHARDY
... whatever age, whatever.
- CWChris Williamson
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- HAHARDY
Yeah, it's- that's true. Just bury it deep on down. That's like the, that's the philosophy. My grandfather used to say, uh, talking about my grandmother, you know, she'd have a bad day, and he would just say, "Oh, she's got that damn depression again." [laughing] Like it was a-
- CWChris Williamson
[laughing]
- HAHARDY
... like it was a flare-up, you know, like it was a rash or something.
- CWChris Williamson
Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
- HAHARDY
Um-
- CWChris Williamson
Yeah, the pollen count is high today.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
The depression count is high today.
- HAHARDY
She's got that damn depression again.
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck.
- HAHARDY
Well, yeah, I think so. I think especially in the country, people just didn't have time. They didn't have the, uh [clears throat] I don't know. It was like, it was like, you just, you... Yeah, kind of like, there's no time to worry about that. We've gotta, we've gotta figure out how to make a living and whatever, whatever that may be. I think-
- CWChris Williamson
That's an interesting point, um, and I guess ties into what you said about the bus story, that if you're super busy, if you've got lots to do, if there's, uh, uh, tasks to be completed, can pretty easily sort of suppress and hide away little whispers-
- HAHARDY
Yeah, distraction
- CWChris Williamson
... fleeting thoughts. "Well, I mean, yeah, sure, maybe I get a little anxious on the bus, but I've got the show to play tonight," and it sort of the, uh, underlying emotion is swept away by a much bigger emotion-
- HAHARDY
Sure
- CWChris Williamson
... which is the dopamine, the serotonin, the adrenaline, all that stuff. Um, but I do think certainly in the music industry, on that ascendancy thing, people can hide-... the emotions that they should be paying a lot of attention to with the energy and the adderall. I mean, I'm on tour at the moment. I played The Cannery in Nashville this week-
- HAHARDY
Hmm.
- CWChris Williamson
- and I was, I was in, I did Boston, Chicago, Nashville, back to back to back. So three shows, three states, three days this week. And, um, some- something that happens at the first show, by the third show, you can't even remember that it's happened.
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
You're like, where the f... I, I accidentally called-
- HAHARDY
Oh, no!
- 1:01:57 – 1:02:55
What’s Next For HARDY?
- HAHARDY
Yeah.
- CWChris Williamson
Ladies and gentlemen, HARDY.
- HAHARDY
Dude.
- CWChris Williamson
I appreciate the fuck out of you, man.
- HAHARDY
Thank you so much, man.
- CWChris Williamson
This has been-
- HAHARDY
It was a great, uh, it was a great conversation, dude.
- CWChris Williamson
This is real. Uh, what's next? Where... Are you on tour? What's coming up?
- HAHARDY
Yeah, count, uh, Country Country Tour starts in Canada in February. [chuckles] Apparently, that's the time to go, 'cause they're bored to death up there.
- CWChris Williamson
[laughing]
- HAHARDY
Country Country Tour, Canada in February. Um, I've got the HARDY Fund. Uh, best way to do it is just Google the HARDY Fund, um, and, uh, you can donate to that. It's my, my wife and I's charity that we're really excited about. Just, um, yeah, Country Country and Country Country Country, the album and the deluxe album, and, uh, that's it.
- CWChris Williamson
Fuck yeah.
- HAHARDY
Yeah, got some other stuff that I can't talk about yet, but excited, super excited about, but, uh, yeah, I'm excited.
- CWChris Williamson
Appreciate you, man.
- HAHARDY
Thank you so much. [upbeat music]
- CWChris Williamson
Thank you very much for tuning in, and congratulations for not being so TikTok-brained that you actually made it to the end of an episode. If you enjoyed that chat with HARDY, uh, Jon Bellion, one of the biggest producers in the world, waiting for you just here. Go on, press it.
Episode duration: 1:02:55
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